[00:01] from that one comment. >> And then ended up increasing conversions 5x. >> He's now bringing in around $285 per subscriber per year, which is like bonkers if you think about it.
[00:14] >> A little tweak to the welcome sequence that ended up doubling sales. >> Think his engagement score increased like 48% to 67%. >> I'm totally doing this. Today we're talking proven ways to grow your email
[00:27] list, engage your target audience, and ultimately make more money in your business. And to help me out is long-time listener queen of the online business growth case study from growthinreverse.com and the growth in
[00:40] reverse podcast, Chanel Facilio. Welcome back to the Side Hustle Show. >> Thanks for having me back on, Nick. >> Now, if there is a common theme in the growth category, it's this idea of tapping into other people's audiences.
[00:54] And sometimes that's uh social media platforms, like going where your target the question is always, well, how do I do it in a in a tasteful, impactful way that doesn't get you buried by uh an algorithm or banned by group admins or
[01:09] moderators. And so one cool example that you found recently was Michelle Ruweda, who runs this uh Austin uh events newsletter called What's Weird ATX. And she was able to kind of grow her initial following up to over I think
[01:23] her initial following up to over I think 5,000 subscribers by some strategic uh Reddit commenting. Yes? >> Yes. This one was awesome. I am not a >> [laughter] >> But uh essentially what she does is
[01:36] she'll go into subreddits that she wants to potentially reach out to, get subscribers from, like maybe an Austin-based one or events in actually do like a four-step process that she laid out for us. So the first
[01:51] of like understand the subreddit and figure out what's working, what are people resonating with, what kind of questions are getting asked. And then on and build up a little karma for herself so that when she does actually go to
[02:05] post something, she doesn't get like downvoted into the ether cuz Reddit is a scary place when you're starting out. >> Yeah, you you have to put in the time before you come in guns a blazing, hey, click on my link, subscribe to my thing.
[02:19] And so she'll actually like set up her profile in a way that like if somebody newsletter, but she's not trying to like push people there all the time. So she does that while she's kind of like commenting and stuff. And she'll
[02:32] dropping links, she'll actually answer the question in a full manner. She'll like give you paragraphs of what she recommends or some cool events that are share these every week in my newsletter." And then she'll drop the
[02:45] link there. So that actually does perform pretty well cuz she's giving the value and actually sharing some ideas without just like sending people over to a different link. So I think that's a
[02:58] good way to do it. >> The most unique and interesting Austin events delivered once a week and so if you think about if I have a an Austin newsletter, you know, this Austin subreddit and even smaller subreddits
[03:12] all related to Austin probably a good place to start with 400,000 weekly visitors. It's kind of this marketing 101 of well, these are these are my people, right? But you know, how do I gently let them know what I do and be of
[03:26] say come on over to my to my thing, to my newsletter. >> Totally. And so after doing this for months and months, one post she ended up she got like 1,500 subscribers from that one comment. And so I thought that was
[03:39] pretty cool cuz you don't just have to post to get subscribers. I think this can be an interesting way to do it, too. >> Yeah, it's >> there's like a viral element to it. And and the example was like things to do in
[03:52] Austin that don't involve drinking. But, I think this is one if you were having a could kind of uh, rinse and repeat in any number of local subreddits to kind of borrow from the same playbook. >> Totally. And I mean, with SEO changing
[04:06] so much, I think Reddit is now showing up higher than some sites were. So, it >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What's next on your list? >> Uh, Leda Solis from SEO FOMO, a really
[04:20] cool one. Um, so she did something called the 30,000 subscribers giveaway. here's this giveaway. It's open for 2 weeks." She said, "Hey, I'm trying to hit 30,000 subscribers. Can you help me get there?" And so, in the giveaway,
[04:35] she's reaching out to SEO software companies and other tools and maybe resources that some of those are giving away. And she's just combining that and saying like, "Hey, sign up for the giveaway and share it with a friend and
[04:48] help me hit my 30,000 subscribers." And so, it only ended when she actually hit that 30,000 number. So, it wasn't just like a 2-week sprint or anything. It And so, she was just kind of going through and posting this in the top of
[05:01] her newsletter and reminding people that it was still active. Um, and it helped I thought that was pretty cool. >> This one is kind of almost counterintuitive to me cuz if I'm a subscriber of yours, like
[05:15] how much do I really care that you're you know, 20 away or 50, yeah. Whatever my almost meaningless like milestone number, but it's like "Oh, I'm trying to get to 100 book reviews." Or, "I'm trying to get to, you know, 10,000
[05:28] subscribers on YouTube." It's like there is a sort of precedent for it. But, like sure you do it. You know, maybe you could be the 10,000 subscriber. Was that how it was? Like if you were subscriber number 30,000, you got the prize or was
[05:40] drawing for the >> Yeah, I think you were entered into a drawing. Um, so it took her from October 1st to November 19th. So a little like a little over a month and a half.
[05:54] But I think the excitement was that like her readers already love what she's doing. And so they're excited to share it and like spread the word. And so I guess if you have an audience that is that like raving fan of yours, they're
[06:06] going to want to share it. Plus like the giveaway was kind of good. You got like free 6 months to some of these software tools. Some of them were >> Um so I mean if you wanted that, you were definitely going to share it with
[06:18] more people. >> Do you use SparkLoop or what do you use to kind of track the referral like prizes or was it >> Did she already have kind of a a standalone subscriber referral program
[06:31] was it a separate thing? But yeah, you can use SparkLoop for Viral Loops, which I is what I actually used for 30 Days of Growth, but
[06:44] >> not the most exciting tool. I just have a lifetime subscription from like one of those AppSumo things from years ago. So I was like, okay, I'll use that. >> Yeah, I'm looking at Viral Loops plans from $35 a month. Now if you missed the
[06:59] around on there again. And I want to say SparkLoop is integrated into Kit's Pro level or one of their higher tier plans expensive. >> Totally. Yeah, but if you are on the Kit
[07:12] think you get free access. >> Okay. >> All right, I like the idea of doing a giving away a giveaway and a rallying your community around that and actually making it something good and relevant to
[07:26] your community. And um and good job getting getting other companies to kind of sponsor it in a way versus you know, I bought I bought an iPad and you know, now you can enter to win this or something. So
[07:39] >> Yeah. >> That's pretty cool. The next one that I >> That's pretty cool. The next one that I found on your 30 days of growth was this kind of the next level of of what has
[07:51] been a really common strategy of comment, you know, some keyword to trigger a many chat thing to get the lead magnet or whatever I promised. But lead magnet or whatever I promised. But you featured Daniel Bustamante from
[08:05] Premium Ghostwriting Academy and he had I don't know, you maybe you probably describe it better than me, but it was kind of a subtle twist on this primarily >> Yeah. So I guess in the past you've probably seen people posting on LinkedIn
[08:19] like, "Hey, I spent 10 hours creating this database of VC companies that are hiring." or whatever it is. And comment to get the free resource, right? And so that used to work super super well, but now I think it's really kind of died
[08:32] down and people are getting like too smart for it, which is fair. Um but what So what Daniel did is he kind of created what he calls like a two-step post. So instead of just saying like, "Hey, here's this cool thing I
[08:44] gives you a ton of value in the post first and then the resource is kind of um it's almost like a content upgrade from way back in the day of like, "Hey, how to do this thing, go comment below and get like the free tool or checklist
[08:59] or whatever it ends up being." Um and he does this all the time and he and so um yeah, it's definitely working for >> [laughter] >> Okay, here's here's an example. 100,000
[09:12] K follower hired my agency to hit six figures on their cohort launch. Here's a four-part email playbook that they used to make it make it happen. Part one, part two, part three, part four. And at the bottom, PS, I put together a
[09:24] full guide breaking down every element of a six-figure launch. The sequences, the timing, the emails that actually convert. Comment playbook and I'll send it your way. So is this really any different than a typical like
[09:36] Instagram many chat thing? It seems like it's similar to or the same as just a keyword comment thing. >> Yeah, so in the past on on LinkedIn but you you usually were just saying like, "Hey, I put together this six-part
[09:49] framework, comment below to get it." You didn't actually share the framework. And thing and then saying like, "Hey, if you want to get the whole like detailed >> Okay. >> So, I mean, that one's a little
[10:03] uh post or more giving away more content for free ahead of the opt-in. like, "Here's this cool thing, go comment to get it." He's giving you part >> Yeah. >> Cool. My social media game is is so
[10:18] I need somebody to do this uh do this for me. category here? >> Uh yeah, so this next one is with um a
[10:30] woman named Fab Giovanetti, and she actually did a 12 Days of Christmas giveaway that drove around 550 subscribers. So, again, on the same topic of giveaways, um just trying to create something new, doing it around
[10:43] the end of the year when people are all excited for like free stuff and gifts and that kind of thing. And so, she kind of partnered with 12 different tools, away freebies. And so, every day she would send her list like a new one, and
[10:57] then she would promote it on LinkedIn or just tell her readers to share it, and she ended up getting around 550 subscribers from that. So, it feels like subscribers from that. So, it feels like a smaller lift than the 30,000 growth uh
[11:11] interesting hook as well. >> Sure, it's it's maybe more attainable or smaller numbers, but yeah, it's it's something that your audience would love and appreciate and maybe can kind of build
[11:26] uh an event, even if it's just something that you made up. And then again, getting companies involved to sponsor that. Were they able to get the companies to like send out on your behalf? Like I think that
[11:40] would be super interesting if you had, you know, Shopify or Ahrefs or something and then they were the the title sponsor of your little virtual giveaway summit or whatever is happening and they could promote to even just a
[11:54] great. >> Totally. Yeah, I think they did and not actually did. And even if they didn't specifically, they might have like reposted her LinkedIn post about it or or that kind of thing. So So either way,
[12:07] she's getting some visibility whether it's them sending it to their list or on interesting one and it's kind of just like pick the tools that only your audience would be interested in and you're going to get great subscribers.
[12:21] >> Yeah, that's the other interesting thing about Fab because your notes say that, do a giveaway. I don't want to attract just this audience of freebie seekers, but because it was so tightly relevant, like they were actually really good
[12:34] subscribers. Like it ended up increasing her click-through metrics and her open >> Totally. >> The next one that I have is more of a a tweak on the landing page itself and it ended up increasing conversions 5x
[12:50] and I will be the first to admit I do almost no split testing because it's like I I have to imagine you I'm better off just like trying to get more traffic than optimizing the traffic that is
[13:02] really eye-opening because it was like almost just a well, subtle one-word >> Yep, exactly. So I think most people to subscribe to their newsletter on their website, they just go with the
[13:16] standard subscribe on the button and it's like, okay, but maybe there's a better option. And so this guy, Marketing Max, um he actually changed one that had a really big impact was changing that submit to the word
[13:30] continue. And it like Yeah, you said it like five x's conversions. >> That is crazy. And we saw Well, we just did a an app marketing like instead of putting you know, the the pay button be subscribe, like the
[13:46] like oh, I just this is the logical next step in my in my flow in the process. know, you're not swiping my credit card just yet. And I think that's It makes me continue. >> Yeah, I did this earlier this week. I
[14:00] happens. I don't [laughter] know. But yeah, the cool thing with these is your own your own website cuz it doesn't always work on every single one. But I like the small changes can really have some big impacts.
[14:15] >> Yeah, this is clearly working well. 182,000 newsletter newsletter subscribers for for Marketing Max over here.
[14:28] marketing hacks. It's 250 on this page. Maybe we got to update the homepage. Um but yeah, here it is. Continue. Oh, it seems harmless enough. >> [laughter]
[14:41] >> Awesome. Yeah, he's he's great. He knows his that little tidbit. >> Do you have a rule of thumb where it's like okay, if you're getting more than 10 visits a day, 20 visits It's like
[14:55] difference and do you have any recommended tools there? remember the this right now, but it was like 99 bucks a month, so I'm not sure it's worth it. But what I would do is I would like test out um like two
[15:10] different things in a month cuz I was getting probably 10,000 plus visitors. And so I was like okay, this one actually did perform better. This one >> Yeah. >> So I think if you have over like a
[15:22] thousand a month, I don't know. But, it's hard to say. It's just like, where do you spend your time? >> Does ConvertKit have any of this functionality built in or or Beehiiv or anything else? Like, I know Leadpages, I
[15:34] think I could do a split test landing page with Leadpages, but I never really just want to be I just want to be done with it. Like >> I build I spent all this time making the lead magnet. Now now you got to There's
[15:46] >> Yeah. Okay, so the product I was using is called Crazy Egg. But, I think it was test it out for a month, see what worked best, and just cancel and go with that one. Um, I haven't used it in a while though because it was working and
[16:01] >> No, I totally I mean, this is It was really eye-opening. Like, how do I squeeze more juice out of the existing traffic? And not just you know, a 3% lift here, but sometimes like five times more options is wild.
[16:16] >> Yes, that is wild. I mean, you have Leadpages. I would try it out. See what Leadpages. I would try it out. See what you can do. challenge as the lead magnet, which my gut instinct would be like, "Oh, that
[16:31] feels too long for a free challenge." You know, keep it at five days, keep it hey, it worked for Growth & Reverse, and it worked for Jess Campbell as well for Out in the Boondocks. Not me. What even is this business?
[16:45] >> She helps nonprofits make money with email marketing. So, she's actually in what I did with 30 Days of Growth is I reached out to 30 different people and I It was like wrangling cats essentially of like trying to get this tip over here
[16:59] smart thing of just like writing the whole thing herself. And so, hers was all about email marketing for nonprofits. And so, she just went with enjoyed writing it every day, and it didn't feel like a job. And so, I was
[17:12] like, "Well, you did it the right way." >> Okay, so instead of crowdsourcing the tips, they were her 30 days of tips. >> Exactly. So it was presented more like a challenge, whereas mine is like, here's this plate of things you can decide
[17:25] Hers was more like, hey, do this and then that. Um but yeah, she said it went subscribers that I think a couple ended up becoming clients, so >> Do you know how she promoted it or how she kind of built buzz around it?
[17:40] days of growth, like it has some built-in marketing muscle behind it where I have like I got 30 different creators who are say, hey, I was featured on Growth in Reverse today.
[17:52] shared it on her LinkedIn. I think she said it was like six or seven times she her email list as well. Um and again, like if you get someone to share it with another nonprofit founder or something like that, they're going to
[18:06] probably sign up or have their marketing person sign up. And so again, much smaller scale, but she still got 440 subscribers. So I think this >> Yeah, and if we're if we're looking at if these numbers are accurate, 4,500 on
[18:19] pretty good, yeah. job as a host of an episode about growing your email list if I didn't at least make you an offer to join mine, so here it is. Join the other 120,000 side
[18:33] hustlers and entrepreneurs who get my best stuff every Thursday. Uh just hit for this episode. You can grab your free AI-assisted side hustle brainstorming worksheet and uh give you some realistic side hustles that are personally
[18:47] tailored to you. Still to come in this episode, what to do with your email you keep them engaged? How do you keep them opening your stuff, interacting with you, and importantly, buying what
[18:59] you've got to sell. We've got some killer tactics coming up in those areas. Coming up right after this. >> Maybe it's a prospect trying to book an appointment. Maybe it's somebody looking for a quote. Maybe it's a potential
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[21:17] Growth in Reverse and we're moving on to the engagement segment of this show. How once you've got them? After all, you spent a lot of effort trying to get somebody onto your list and now it'd be really great if they stayed there. And
[21:31] so, I've got an interesting case study from Half Baked, which is actually a subscribed to. It's like a business ideas kind of newsletter at gethalfbaked.com. And interestingly, in their initial
[21:46] onboarding flow, they kind of went against the grain and had a lot of hoops to jump through under the theory of like, "Well, the more information we ask, the more engaged people are going to be." But it was like,
[21:58] the foot a little bit before people even know us." What did they end up doing >> In the beginning, they had like multiple questions that they were asking people got to the thank you page. And then they realized that, "Hey, actually this is
[22:11] leading to more people leaving within the first 30 days." And so, instead what to a, "Hey, welcome." page with the of him and everything. And that actually cut churn by 57%,
[22:25] like, "Is that really the number?" And he's like, "Yeah." I was like, "Okay, that's crazy." And they have 125,000 subscribers. So they're testing this on. >> Yeah. This is an interesting one. And
[22:38] so, their main channel was paid acquisition. So they're doing meta ads for Instagram, Facebook. And so, it's like, "We're we're paying for these people and we want to make sure that they stick around, you know, long enough
[22:51] see what we have." >> Yeah, exactly. So, I think with paid careful because those people don't know you yet. And so, all of those questions people be like, what is this thing? Like, I I don't want to answer all of
[23:05] these. I don't know who you are yet. And so, they were leaving sooner. But, I think with their more engaged, like, hey, you came through a LinkedIn post of ours or something, Instagram, whatever, um they'd probably stick around longer,
[23:17] working super well. >> So, they cut it back to just name and consider most important fields? >> Yeah, name and email. And then, after, after that, you would go to a bunch of questions and now they just send you
[23:32] signing up page. So, instead of trying to, like, make them jump through more them the questions later. >> Okay, in the name of getting first-party
[23:44] you work for? What's the size of the company of company? What's your income level and your mother's maiden name and everything? like to have, you know, first name, last name,
[23:56] phone number, like, could we send text updates? Like, you know, those have huge open rates, but, like, every additional field that you add is another reason to really want to fill all this stuff out? >> Right, exactly. So, I think, um just
[24:09] cutting it back and simplifying it actually helped them here. numbers and and SMS at this point? >> No, I'm looking into it. Um Kit just announced that they have, like, a new SMS engage or integration with
[24:24] SlickText, which is like a bigger SMS tool. So, it might be worth testing out, >> Okay, the next one on my list is the pre-event video that increased show-up rates to 99% and if you've ever hosted a webinar, you
[24:39] know that a 50% show-up rate would be fantastic, but 99% of people showed up for this online event and this is Sam Vander Wielen. So, what's going on with >> Yeah, Sam's awesome. This webinar that we were specifically talking about, she
[24:55] got 11,000 people to sign up for it. She didn't get 99% of all of those to come, but when she had people sign up, she would send them an email with a tool called video ask embedded. So, it was like a video of her saying like,
[25:08] make it to the the webinar. Can you reply and let me know what you want me to answer on the webinar itself?" And so, she would personally send a video back to everybody who asked a question. And they were like, "Oh my gosh, like
[25:22] you're a real person. You actually read this email." And so, everyone who submitted that, 100% of the people she replied to with a video showed up for the webinar. And I think over 50% of the people of those people who showed up
[25:34] bought the product. And it's like a $2,000 plus product. So, I think people are craving that like actual human connection versus like getting lumped into the ether with 10,000 other people.
[25:48] personalization, I think she really hit on something there. >> Yeah, was it literally like a separate video ask for every person and there might be hundreds of different videos. And so, it wasn't
[26:02] like, "Hey Chanel, thanks so much for signing up. Looking forward to hanging I'll let me know." Like times 100 or how many people? >> Yeah, so the initial video is go the same for every person. It's like, "Hey,
[26:15] you have any questions." But if somebody replied to that, she would then reply >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. So, I think she said she sent like 300 plus custom videos back. And then there were still like 100 more on the
[26:28] have time to do this." And she just sent like a the same one to those 100, but yeah, she went through and did the work and it paid off for sure. >> Yeah, this is kind of reminiscent I
[26:40] would not do videos, but would try and do a personalized email to probably the first 10,000 people who signed up for the Side Hustle Nation newsletter. And it would just say like, "Look, where you at?" And if it could if I could discern
[26:52] anything from the you know the domain name of their URL or like you would guess what city you were at like oh I used to live in Atlanta you just trying to get some level
[27:07] response and maybe send positive signals to Gmail and the other emails you know platforms but kind of doing that personalized heavy lifting early on and and it works
[27:20] >> In Sam's case it says this launch generated over half a million dollars in revenue it says Sam is an attorney who helps online entrepreneurs protect you know and legally set up their business
[27:32] definitely did something right there. for like her podcast and her newsletter too and so it's not just for a webinar when people join the list and asking them to ask questions and she's just
[27:46] getting like really good content ideas from this and so you don't have to have a webinar to use this strategy I think you can do it with pretty much anything. >> Oh okay I like that so everybody who joins your typical strategy would be
[27:59] what are you struggling with right now and then you could use that to feed future content or start a conversation but yeah doing it in video if you have the bandwidth this is above and beyond because I mean a lot of you know Bonjoro
[28:13] was big for a little while and like oh if somebody joins my paid product sure that was a common strategy is like a little extra unexpected bonus touch point but just for an email it's like dang she she
[28:26] really cares this is cool. [laughter] >> It is cool and she does she does she and I think that just like adds to the extra excitement for people so definitely standing out. >> In an AI world what are the different
[28:40] clutter so good job good job Sam.
[28:52] >> one that I had was from Dan Cumberland and he is like creator using AI to the max. I love seeing the examples of the things he's doing, but the one he shared that I think is super relevant for people is
[29:05] that he took all of his past like 6 months of broadcast emails from his Kit account and he dumped them into AI. Now you can use the Kit MCP with Claude and he just said, "Hey, give me like five rules for the best subject lines that
[29:21] have the most like the best open rates that I've had in the last 6 months." And so it gave him like he thought it was going to be, "Oh, the ones with numbers or like extreme percentages or something like juicy like that." But it actually
[29:34] came out with like five different rules for him to use moving forward. So it it pulled out the contrarian claim like everyone's doing this, most people are doing it wrong. Um the unexpected comparison, specific
[29:46] number and parenthetical, and then questions that imply risk like is your questions that imply risk like is your chat GPT memory working against you? Um and then a first-person confession. But again, like these five things are just
[29:59] for what's working with Dan's email list. But the the overarching idea here or whatever and see what's working for them moving forward. >> Okay, have you done this yet?
[30:12] >> [laughter] >> I started to and then I got hung up and >> Yeah, I'm really curious. I'll make a note to play around with it because like note to play around with it because like even just um you know, just like the um
[30:27] for, but the connection is cool in itself. It's like um because we're kind of drafting the first version of newsletters like and then and then it's it's like could you could you just create that draft for you know, follow
[30:41] can do that. So, just getting started over there, but this is kind of cool. And so, going back to the well of what works, that's the the takeaway from this one is improving your open rates by looking at what got
[30:56] good open rates in the past. Yes? >> Yeah. Yep, exactly. And I think the human would think it's one thing, but the AI is like, wait, no, it's actually think AI is pretty good with pattern recognition, so could be a useful tool.
[31:11] >> All right. >> Next one I have is the assist.com from Joanna, who runs a professional development newsletter, workplace tips, career advice, and that kind of thing. And she did something to kind of
[31:25] reactivate um subscribers who, you know, maybe hadn't opened anything in a while. Yes? >> Yeah, exactly. So, they set up a a new re-engagement sequence. So, if anybody hadn't opened an email in 30 days, they
[31:38] started going through these four emails that she set up. Um should we walk through them or >> Yeah, after 30 days is kind of an interesting interestingly short, but I'm curious to hear the thinking behind
[31:52] often than me. >> Yeah, I think she sends three times a sure. Yeah. >> Yeah, 300,000
[32:05] subscribers, good work. >> [laughter] building a good business over there. >> Okay, so 30 days, no opens, and so this is kind of a automatically triggered. What does she send out?
[32:18] assuming that the subscriber wants your emails but isn't seeing them, and so the subject line is like, I think it actually says get me out of here. And say like get me out of this bucket of people who aren't opening your
[32:31] Um so, the email just walks you through like exactly how to whitelist the assist moving forward. So, that's just kind of the first email of like catch their wanting to stay. And then the second one is kind of like
[32:46] uh, what the assist writes about because they might have forgotten who you are or so, that email is kind of gives them like the full picture of what you write about, who you are, and why they should keep listening.
[33:00] you forgot >> Yeah. place. And if it's been 30 days and you haven't opened anything, you can yeah, >> Totally. Especially with something like the assist, like that doesn't really
[33:14] general. >> Yeah. Like yours, I feel like people Uh, >> But no, I do yeah, occasionally cuz it's and it's been going on for so many years. People sometimes are like, "Who
[33:27] it's like, yeah, some kind of reengagement, uh, re- reintroduction would make sense. >> Totally. And maybe including like some really resonated with or that kind of thing.
[33:41] Uh, and then the third one is the direct ask is what they called it. So, it's noticed you haven't been opening. Do you still want to hear from us? If not, we'll unsubscribe you." Kind of just like putting that instead of that being
[33:53] you get the other two first. And then the last one is like the final one, I "Hey, in case you really missed everything above, um, soon. So, heads up." That kind of thing.
[34:08] >> Okay. [snorts] And so, day three is requesting a click. Like, you can you can leave now. Like, that would be fine. Or, you know, click here to stay. So, you're trying to send some signal to the software that, "Okay, yes, I'm a real
[34:20] >> Yeah, exactly. And if they want to unsubscribe, that's great. Then you don't have to send them an email they don't want on day four or email four. >> I think it's good to get people to unsubscribe. I know that's like kind of
[34:32] controversial, but it's really helping the health of your list and making sure other people who want your emails. And so anything you can do to get the wrong there is is good. >> Yeah. How much do you trust the open
[34:48] rate metrics? Like if somebody hasn't been opening for 30 days, sometimes you get replies be like, "Are you kidding? I read every email." >> Totally. It's not perfect, but if someone really wants to stay, I mean,
[35:02] something if you ask them to. >> Okay. Um it's not perfect though. I think open rates are just like but like the click rate is a little bit better. And then I've started tagging
[35:16] with Zapier. Um so that's like another signal to say engaged." Yeah. maybe that's the hierarchy. Open rate, sure. Clicking on something, okay,
[35:30] that's hard harder to imitate. And then actually replying, yeah, that's that's do that. Maybe through a personalized video message. The other thing I did want to note on the Assist, when I clicked subscribe, it didn't even ask
[35:45] for uh a name. It just said enter your email and and had the button to do it. The button did not say continue though. >> Join free is the button. >> Yeah. Maybe they should try continue. >> Yeah. What's your take on that too? Cuz
[35:58] I like to do some personalization here and there. It's like it's good to have at least a first name. And so sometimes and I have some forms that don't include it. And so it's it can be frustrating when some people have that
[36:10] personalization and others don't. And it's like it just shows up blank or there's like a default setting, but I don't know. What's check out Growth in Reverse and see how you have have it set up.
[36:22] >> I don't have first name on most of them, but for some of them I do. Like a lead magnet I will. Um I don't think friction's a bad thing necessarily. And first name in, it's like, well, I don't know. Are you really that
[36:35] interested? But, there is something about, you know, just getting them later and like just be excited about subscribing and figure out if they're I don't know. I go back and forth with it and I think everyone can do their own
[36:49] name. >> All right, we're learning how to keep our list more engaged, get more people to subscribe, get more of the right people to stay subscribed, opening our messages, replying to them, clicking on
[37:02] the stuff, and ultimately buying our thing. The next one under this category of engagement is called the 4-hour email that boosted engagement 40%. This is that boosted engagement 40%. This is from Jason@nurturekit.co.
[37:19] essentially what Jason did was people would subscribe for a lead magnet or resource, and after that, like usually you don't send them another email. Like, you just let them go into your regular broadcasts. But, what Jason did is 4
[37:34] hours after sending that lead magnet to the person, he would follow up and say, or click that, he would follow up and say, "Hey, did you get the free thing?" by the way, like I just wanted to know
[37:47] make sure you saw the resource." And just kind of start to open up a conversation with people. Uh his whole thing is like like consulting, so he's He's trying to actually get a high quality of list who might end up buying
[38:00] from him later. So, I really, really like this one cuz it's just like building conversation and getting to know his subscribers. >> Yeah, this is a really interesting one. Okay, so your lead magnet is your first
[38:14] Okay, so your lead magnet is your first 30 days blueprint and But, click here to get the blueprint. And if I don't click on the blueprint in the first 4 hours, he's going to be like, "Bro, what's what's going on? Did
[38:26] that's because we've always had that kind of engagement and click metric data for the lead magnet delivery emails, but never thought to you really follow up click on it. I think that's kind of just another touch point, and it almost seems
[38:44] I don't know, maybe in a different world you might perceive it as like, "Dude, It's a little bit creepy, but it's like, "No, look, I'm I'm here for you, and I want to make sure you got the thing that you that you needed that you would
[38:58] presumably needed to that you wanted enough to put in your email for. >> Totally. And I think the coolest part about this is he helps people set up their Kit account. So like he's an email guy. So by showing his potential clients
[39:10] these little little tricks that he's doing, he's just making them like him >> [laughter] >> So I like that one. >> Yeah, I'm totally doing this. This is This is pretty cool. Do you have offhand
[39:24] from this? >> Yeah, with this one he said he called it 40% more engagement, and so I said think his engagement score increased like 48% to 67%, which is like the people actually clicking through to the thing.
[39:38] >> Yeah, and so more people actually downloaded the thing, and so it's like, wouldn't you want to engage with it?" And then he was getting higher reply knowing that you're a real person, they're real people. So I think all
[39:53] around it was just like a good exercise. >> Yeah, I'm I'm into it. Um I think that's is really cool. >> All right, next under the engagement category is the link that reduces
[40:08] unsubscribes, and this is one of your own. This is kind of a a pause button. sometimes get the this request as well. So I think you're throwing too many side hustle ideas at me. I I love it, but also like I'm in a different season of
[40:22] going on with uh with this one? >> Yeah, so I actually found this from an another newsletter. I'm trying to I think it was called two sigma, and I signed up for this on a whim, and I just found this in the footer of their email
[40:35] cool. I'm stealing this." So, they essentially had an unsubscribe link, and then above that they had a "Hey, are you having like email overwhelm? Just snooze our emails for 30 days, and so you would click a link, go to this other page, and
[40:51] sending you emails." So, it's kind of like subscribe again to unsubscribe for Um >> Okay, you couldn't just do it with um something? >> So, you can, and I did that for the
[41:05] first one, but I think there's like if you have a lot of people who work at school districts or big corporations, they have firewalls that click every single link. And so, link triggers are not the most
[41:19] >> Yeah. So, they're not email again. >> Yeah, more reliable. I actually did a twist on this. Um I started setting up a tally form, which is kind of technical,
[41:34] but it it'll pull in so like Kit can pass a subscriber uh email address like in the URL with like a hashed thing. And so, tally forms can read that, and so I just had the form say, "Do you want to snooze emails
[41:47] for 30 days?" And people click yes, and it auto adds um them. So, that they don't have to enter their email again. So, that was my little workaround for this instead of making them do more.
[41:59] list. Why do I got to enter this again?" So, that that makes sense. But, it's kind of it's a it's a last ditch. If somebody's like "No, I still kind of like it, but just let me take a break. I'm going to pause.
[42:12] I've thought about doing this for years, but kind of always get hung up on the technical, like how to do it. The idea that I might have had in my head was like, just send me a a monthly digest or something. It's like, well, I don't want
[42:24] to create another email, but it's like, you see if it's just a legit pause button, like that seems really relatively simple to set up one time, says, you know, okay, dump them back into the newsletter list after the uh
[42:38] whatever they chose, 30, 60, 90, or however many days, uh they can go back in and and hopefully come back in and the water's warm. >> Totally. Um so, I really like this one. Essentially saved 400 something
[42:50] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, I always try and make a point to do it for product launches, where it's like, look, if this isn't a fit, just um and no hard feelings, and I won't
[43:02] only ever done that with the click triggers, so who knows how accurate it >> [laughter] >> Yeah, maybe try the new Tally Form situation instead next time. >> All right. Maybe somebody who can set
[43:15] that up. Uh we've got more with Chanel in just a moment, including a building a seven-figure business with under 4,000 subscribers. Yes, we've got the after this. You know that feeling when you finally
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[45:28] All right, we're back with Chanel from Growth in Reverse. So, we're moving on to the monetization segment of today's episode. After all, growing your email day, we got a business to run here. So, we got to figure out how we're going to
[45:42] ring the cash register, and Chanel's got some great examples of people doing just that. And we'll go with the one that we teased, the seven-figure email list with teased, the seven-figure email list with under 4,000 subscribers. This is a a
[45:55] dollar figure per subscriber that is off the charts just about from from what I've seen. So, this is uh Dustin Reekman, uh former guest of the show. We were talking about Fire Creek Snacks, a meat stick business back
[46:08] in the day. Today, Dustin runs Seven Figure Leap. business? >> Yeah, Dustin's business is awesome. He runs a essentially podcast guesting academy. So, he's helping people do
[46:22] he grew Fire Creek Snacks that you were referring to before. And [snorts] so, referring to before. And [snorts] so, he's now bringing in around $285 per subscriber per year, which is like bonkers if you think about it.
[46:36] >> Yeah, the metric that gets thrown around a lot is like a dollar per subscriber per month. So, that'll be like $12 per subscriber per year. And even at that >> Yep. >> Um but I've never seen $285. [laughter]
[46:53] cool. So, he's doing um podcast guesting like I said, but he's kind of doing it a little differently. Instead of having people reach out to relationship coach, you shouldn't be pitching relationship coaches and like
[47:06] pitch like parenting podcasts for first-time parents or like a personal finance show where couples are talking about money. And so, that's his whole Um and he's able to kind of teach other
[47:19] people how to do this, but he's doing it for himself as well. And so, he's not necessarily needing to grow his email list, he's just using podcast guesting to do this. And I think it is brilliant. >> So, he's growing it by showing up on
[47:32] other shows, kind of like practicing what he preaches there. And then the monetization angle is uh membership and kind of hand-holding along like look, we're going to help you land some high-profile guest podcast
[47:45] >> Exactly. And so, he's he does it in a little different way. So, like he's giving you criteria for which guests or which podcast to pitch. He's giving you Um and then
[47:58] by doing this, like he's just generating a crazy high number of >> revenue per subscriber because his product is like not sure the actual number, but I'm sure it's a
[48:10] >> Yeah, yeah. Um, so he's able to go on other shows, like essentially showcase his expertise with podcast guesting while he's podcast guesting, and then get people into his program, and it's working, and he gets
[48:23] see. >> Yeah, a good guy. He's been around in the online space for forever, and I it was really surprising to me when he said that the Fire Creeks episode that we did was like his first guesting spot. I was
[48:37] "That can't be true." cuz it's you feel like I've known his name for for years even prior to that. And it's cool to see him in person for the first time at at >> Oh, yeah, good. I'm glad you got to see him in person. That's great. He's a good
[48:51] >> was So, you going back to what you said, you said he's the kind of on the You're not going to not going after the shows that are in your industry, but try where a segment of the audience is going to be
[49:05] >> Totally. Yep. He calls them shoulder industries or shoulder topics. So, finding the the people who have the audience that you want, but aren't necessarily the exact same person as you. So, like
[49:19] yeah, I that relationship coach one, I think, is really good to hit home, or like even a personal finance uh, I don't know, maybe you're doing want to go on a parenting show, or something like that, versus like an
[49:32] actual personal finance podcast. >> Got it. Well, here's I mean, you're this we're talking email marketing, but we're not an email marketing-focused podcast. It's an entrepreneurship podcast, but people on people listeners are going to
[49:45] they don't already. And so, it's a good fit there. And similar for me in the early days of the show, Yes, it was great to get on really some of the biggest spikes were from going on personal finance podcasts
[49:59] where the topics were saving and budgeting and investing and you know, frugal living and stuff. It's like at a certain point, it's going to revenue side of the equation. And so I got to come on and be the side hustle
[50:12] guy and say, "Look, you don't have to you know, have rice and beans all the path. You could you could actually go out and earn more money." And so that a pretty big growth lever or some some good spikes from doing doing just that.
[50:27] good spikes from doing doing just that. But I got to figure out Dustin's $280 So he's doing he's got he's got the monetization >> Totally. Yeah. >> Well, Dustin is at 7-Figure Leap. Go
[50:40] check out his previous episode on The Side Hustle Show as well for an example of his guesting prowess. Let's move on to the next example. This is a consumer psychology newsletter called Why We Buy.
[50:55] >> Yeah. >> It's learn why we buy.com. And this was a little tweak to the welcome sequence that ended up doubling sales. Tell me about this one. >> Yeah, this one is awesome. So Caitlin
[51:07] Bergoine runs this and she ended up with a couple of different products that helped different people on her email list. And so she realized like instead of doing like one flash sale for everyone on her list at the same time,
[51:21] she started doing like rotating flash sales. And so this is a little tricky, but stick with me here. So in her welcome email, she asks a single need help with right now?" I think it's like retention,
[51:34] monetization, like stuff like that. And so based on people's answers, she'll actually put them into a grouping and those people start getting pitched for think it is uh the first 30 days. And so, they get a
[51:48] flash sale for that product. If they don't buy, 3 months later they're going product, and so on and so forth. And so, people are getting the most like relevant thing to them first versus like just having everyone go through the same
[52:02] product offer. Um So, you don't necessarily need the products part of it, but you can ask people uh what they need help with in their welcome sequence and customize it that way. So, it's a little tricky, but
[52:15] >> And it's probably click triggered, not not necessarily >> Yeah, she uses kit >> Yeah. So, she uses kit polls to make sure people are actually clicking on
[52:29] that that specific thing, and then they go into a sequence that way. But, yeah, I think her digital product sales went up like 30% the first 3 months, and then >> Wow. >> Yeah.
[52:42] where they are. Just kind of the technical challenge of one having a >> Totally. [laughter] >> that is a is an actual fit for everybody in these different categories, and then kind of the technical setup of well, how
[52:54] am I going to pitch that? But, in um issue like years ago, but if somebody you know, opted in for something related e-commerce, like I would like to send them a sequence a welcome sequence
[53:09] related to e-commerce, and not just generic side hustle stuff. And if I had been a great place to plug it cuz I knew they were at least interested in that. But, kind of similar idea, taking somebody from a generic email opt-in in
[53:23] in Caitlyn's case to kind of try to figure out what what really brought you here. What's What do you need the most help with? affiliate offers, too. Like it doesn't have to be your own product. You could
[53:36] like say, "Okay, somebody needs most help with growing their email list." And something like that. Um three of your own products. You can also do it that way.
[53:49] program or affiliate program I should be plugging? >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I guess um I have what's called bunch of these really cool ways to grow and monetize and keep your subscribers
[54:04] happy. So that is the place that people generally go for that. >> [laughter] >> Very cool. Um no, that makes sense, too. still you still want to be of service to your audience, so point them where they
[54:19] whether or not that's an affiliate uh offer. And I think that will endear you this person is trying to help me." >> 100%.
[54:37] sequence tweak that at least the headline tripled sales. Not just doubled, but tripled sales. This was Matt Ragland from Good People Digital, his email marketing in course launch course launch agency. What's going on
[54:51] >> Yeah, so Matt started doing um kind of like a low-ticket version of this. So um he's worked with some of the bigger email lists uh like Ryan Holiday and some other folks, Amanda Getz. And um he
[55:05] started in the first 7 days started pitching like a lower-ticket product, like a $9 or $29 offer instead of just like hoping that people will buy in 3 it out." Uh you're like hitting people where they're excited to be on your list
[55:19] instead of like later on. Um and you can also do this on like the thank you page for your email list if it's like relevant for that person, but um so he products like right in the the first 7 days. And if you bought that, then later
[55:33] on he'd pitch the next thing. And so he's just trying to like get a list of buyers versus just freebie people. That's the main message here is like, can you get your people paying and see if they'll actually buy from you?
[55:46] >> Yeah, we did an episode with Ryan Furaldi and it was kind of the same thing like how do I get people to pay me in a way that's beneficial to them as fast as possible. Like I would much rather have a list of buyers than a list
[56:01] of random people who maybe read my stuff. It's like I'm not in the media game for the sake of producing media. Like I'm in the media game to run media. Like I'm in the media game to run a business and it was this interesting
[56:15] shift and we can link up his like funnel sequence episode and everything that he who don't buy? Cuz we've seen some other people kind [laughter] of like a buy or unsubscribe ultimatum. We're just like, well that seems a little bit harsh.
[56:28] >> Um if they didn't buy, I think he just like weeks later and then maybe a month later, too. And just saying like, hey, like maybe you're not a good fit for this. You There is also a world where
[56:43] the non-buyers and just like send them who aren't necessarily buying on to like get sponsorships or that kind of thing. >> So I don't know. It's an interesting choice you have to make there, but I
[56:57] think it's a smart one to start off with. And like think of Amy Porterfield, like she actually shut down her course business and is now like doing free lead magnets. She's only doing like paid lead magnets. So there's something about that
[57:11] that I think is working for people. >> Yeah, do you think it's just PDF fatigue or lead magnet fatigue? Just like or >> you know, targeting a higher income person is like, look, if this is going
[57:24] to solve my problem, $9 is fine, $29 is fine, like just a different world? >> I think it depends on like what your ultimate goal is. Like, I think Amy is now trying to get people to buy her like
[57:38] so, if that's the case, and you don't want the freebie people who are just anything, then maybe it makes sense to have everything be paid. Um it's kind of like doing a paid newsletter backwards. Like, instead of
[57:51] have to buy the lead magnets to get on the list. I don't know. >> Yeah, that's that's really I never thought about it that way. thought about it that way. Um
[58:04] anything for the last, which is like more more free stuff, put more, you know, more content out into the world. But, to the point of Look, if if the the thousand-dollar thing, if they're not going to buy the nine-dollar thing,
[58:19] going to convert on the other thing. And continually paying the email service provider for to have this person on my list if they're not my ideal client? >> Right. Exactly. And I don't think that
[58:32] if they're not going to pay, but it's just like a good signal to say like, okay, this person is probably my person or they're not. like, "Look, you know, it's an offer." Cuz I think I
[58:46] doesn't that feel salesy?" He's like, "Look, it's an offer. Take it or leave it. I put it out there in the world. If you want it, great. If you don't, that's also fine. 97% of the people say no, and that is okay." That was helpful for me.
[58:58] It's just like, "Oh, you know, how dare you try and sell me something?" Like, store be like, how dare you try and sell me something?" So, [laughter] That was helpful for me. Um the next one on on our list is the
[59:11] self-monetizing lead magnet. This one comes from Terry Rice. So, what is Terry up to? >> Yeah, so Terry kept getting asked by people on LinkedIn like, "How do you run a business run two businesses, speak
[59:25] professionally, have four kids, and not burn out. And like that was just one of and over again. And so instead of just continuously replying to emails and "Let me build you a tool and show you my dashboard of how I stay on track of like
[59:40] every day and what I'm doing." And so he vibe coded something with Lovable that's his daily streaks for going to the gym and like how many keynotes he's pitched to get and like all of that stuff. And
[59:53] people can now use this for themselves, too. But I think the cool part about this is like you don't actually have to buy it. And so on the bottom of this tool are all of his affiliate links. So if somebody wants to
[01:00:07] start using Lovable or start using some of the tools that he's using to run his business, he gets paid if they click on it and if they buy something. So I think it's just an interesting reframe of like instead of building something and just
[01:00:20] asking everyone for money for it or that kind of thing, it's like, "Well, you can give it away and get some affiliate revenue from it." He's gotten coaching clients from this because people want to live his life cuz obviously the tool is
[01:00:32] not going to really be the the thing that gets you there, but um people think it is. So >> In his case, it was something that really resonated with the audience. It says it went from less than a subscriber
[01:00:44] a day to now I'm getting 50 subscribers a week. So kind of a significant bump in the in the trajectory there. This next one is a good one. This is the FOMO approach to getting sponsors to buy. We've talked a lot about monetizing with
[01:00:58] way to monetize if you're monetizing with sponsors. This comes from the Bay Area Times. Kind of a local newsletter covering pretty broad area Silicon Valley, San Francisco Bay Area, pretty broad in terms of a local newsletter
[01:01:12] broad in terms of a local newsletter from what we usually see in that space. But this is a pretty cool one cuz they have the little advertise with us link uh uh bottom of every newsletter. And then what happens after that?
[01:01:25] >> Yeah, so if you click to advertise with them, um you sign up for essentially >> [laughter] >> Uh they get a welcome email that says like it's coming from a different sending address. So, um it comes from
[01:01:38] like the CEO or one of the the C-suite people. And it's essentially a media kit for their sponsorships. And so, you can sign up to book a call with them and don't, you just stay on this separate email list. And every month or so,
[01:01:52] they're sending you an update like, "Hey, we just hit 215,000 subscribers. all these people before we keep growing." And so, every month you're essentially just showcasing It's almost like an investor letter of like,
[01:02:06] >> Yeah. >> this much. You want to join now and lock and it gets more expensive. Call like book a call here." >> Interesting. I never thought about having a separate email like a people,
[01:02:19] you know, put together their media kit or even a media kit page on their website that occasionally you remember to update. Some people like, "Are these "No, thank you for mentioning [laughter] that. We haven't done Pinterest in
[01:02:31] years." Or something, you know, whatever. It's on there. And but maintaining a full separate email list for would-be sponsors is pretty next >> Yeah, and they're seemingly selling out their sponsorships. So,
[01:02:44] it's working. And you don't have to have a huge list that's like growing super also like showcase a case study of a past sponsor that had a good result or do something like that and just keep them engaged like once a month, once
[01:02:58] every 90 days or 60 days or whatever. Uh it doesn't have to be this big lift on >> Yeah, you don't have to do it every day. >> Totally. engaged and like, "Oh yeah, maybe I should buy that sponsorship spot now."
[01:03:11] >> Yeah, and you kind of see, well, I guess you can you of give an update of upcoming inventory, too. Oh, for the month of July, you know, we're 90% sold. Like, if you want to secure your spot, this is now's the time to do it.
[01:03:25] >> Yep, exactly. So, I think one of the cool things with this, too, is like marketing manager or maybe even the CEO sponsorship link to see how much something is, and then they are getting
[01:03:37] forwarding to their team to be like, "Hey, we probably should sponsor this >> Yeah. >> Yeah, makes you look good approach. >> Exactly. >> [laughter]
[01:03:50] >> Well, Chanel, this has been awesome. What's next for you? What's got you >> Just writing more deep dives and getting more nerdy about newsletters and reverse engineering how they grow. So, that's pretty much my main thing and what I
[01:04:02] >> Well, you're the best in the business at it. growthinreverse.com, make sure to subscribe over there. Check out the Growth in Reverse podcast if you forget to grab your free listener bonus.
[01:04:15] So, for this week, it's my AI-assisted side hustle brainstorming worksheet to get you some more realistic side hustles personally tailored to you. I know the notes like, "Oh, I never It It surfaces things that they never would have
[01:04:28] kind of feedback. So, just hit the show notes link in the description for this episode. Test it out for yourself. Let me know what it comes back with. Big insight. Big thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for
[01:04:42] everyone. sidehustlenation.com/deals is where to go for all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place. That is it from me. Thank you so much for tuning in. Until next time, let's go out there and make something happen, and
[01:04:56] I'll catch you in the next edition of The Side Hustle Show. Hustle on.