---
title: 'The Buggy Patch, Valor Situation, TBC Classic Date | Bellular LIVE'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=DvUm67BwOJ0'
video_id: 'DvUm67BwOJ0'
date: 2026-08-19
duration_sec: 13132
channel: 'Bellular Warcraft'
---

# The Buggy Patch, Valor Situation, TBC Classic Date | Bellular LIVE

> Source: [The Buggy Patch, Valor Situation, TBC Classic Date | Bellular LIVE](https://youtube.com/watch?v=DvUm67BwOJ0)

## Summary

In this live World of Warcraft news show, the hosts discuss the state of the game in 2021, covering the new Valor Points system, the upcoming Burning Crusade Classic pre-patch, and various community concerns. They also address the buggy 9.0.5 patch and speculate on the future of the game, including potential new classes and player housing.

### Key Points

- **Technical difficulties and show start** [09:05] — The show starts with a dead HDMI cable causing green artifacting, which is fixed just before the show begins.
- **Recommendation for new players in 2021** [10:14] — The hosts recommend World of Warcraft to new players, especially those who enjoy PvP and League of Legends, noting the depth of PvP and the current state of gearing via PvP.
- **Broad perspective on starting WoW in 2021** [13:28] — For players interested in collection gameplay or role-playing, WoW offers a wealth of old content. For mythic plus enthusiasts, it's also a good time, though there's a learning curve.
- **Overwhelming for new players** [17:15] — The hosts note that WoW can be overwhelming for new players due to the sheer amount of content and the high noise-to-signal ratio, but with guidance, it can be a great experience.
- **TBC Classic launch raid staggering** [24:14] — Discussion on how TBC Classic will stagger content, with Mount Hyjal not available at launch, which is seen as a way to prevent meta-gaming and preserve the original experience.
- **Blizzard's PTR and beta testing as unpaid labor** [32:42] — The hosts criticize Blizzard for not providing enough information to testers, making it difficult to give useful feedback, and highlight the lack of community team resources.
- **Valor Points system details** [42:53] — Mythic plus dungeons award 135 Valor Points regardless of difficulty, which is unintuitive but balanced around a weekly cap of 750 points, encouraging players to use the Great Vault.
- **Valor Points cap and mistakes** [48:42] — The seasonal cap increases by 750 per week, and players can make mistakes by upgrading gear that isn't part of their base set, wasting points.
- **Marks of Honor purchase** [55:17] — Players can now purchase five Marks of Honor for 2,000 Honor in Oribos, a small but significant change for PvP players.
- **9.0.5 patch bugs** [01:01:34] — The patch launched with several bugs, such as the Anima reward giving 250 instead of 500, but these were hotfixed. The hosts see this as a sign of Blizzard shipping patches before they're fully ready.
- **TBC Classic pre-patch date** [01:05:03] — A datamined string suggests the TBC Classic pre-patch may be May 18th, with the full launch expected around August, giving players time to level up.
- **Patch 9.1 release speculation** [01:08:10] — The hosts speculate that patch 9.1 might be released in mid-to-late June, potentially overlapping with the TBC Classic pre-patch.
- **Criticism of Shadowlands systems** [01:14:26] — The hosts criticize Renown, Stygia, and Anima systems, feeling they are time-gated and poorly assembled, making Shadowlands less than the sum of its parts.
- **Windwalker monk bugs** [01:36:48] — A bug tracker site (bugwalker.io) lists 21 bugs for Windwalker monks, including issues with Roll and Whirling Dragon Punch, and a talent that doesn't scale with gear.
- **Potential new classes** [01:44:02] — The hosts discuss potential new classes, including Tinker, Blademaster, and Bard, and the challenges of adding support classes in a competitive MMO environment.
- **Night elf retribution** [01:59:38] — The hosts predict that Night Elves will get a big reckoning in the next patch, possibly with Tyrande confronting Sylvanas, and discuss the future of the Night Elf people.
- **Soulbind system improvements** [02:11:13] — The hosts suggest that Soulbinds should have more interactive quests and a reputation-like system to make players feel more connected to their soulbinds.
- **Mythic plus for old dungeons** [02:17:09] — The idea of applying Mythic plus to old dungeons like Blackrock Depths is discussed, but it's deemed unlikely due to balance issues, though a Mythic zero timewalking mode could be cool.
- **Pugging and ilvl requirements** [02:19:02] — The hosts discuss the negative externalities of ilvl and Raider.io checks in pugs, noting that it's a societal problem with no easy solution, and recommend playing with a guild.
- **Support talent trees** [02:25:22] — The idea of support specs, like a Death Knight necromancy tree, is discussed, but the hosts note that competitive balance makes such trade-offs unlikely to be worth it.
- **New specs instead of classes** [02:28:27] — The hosts agree that adding one or two new specs per expansion could be a good idea, citing examples like a Dark Ranger hunter spec or an Inquisitor paladin ranged DPS.
- **Venari's identity** [02:31:00] — The hosts speculate on Venari's true identity, noting similarities to ethereals, and express interest in the cosmic war storyline, but hope it stays fantasy rather than sci-fi.
- **Updated models and dragon isles** [02:35:43] — A request for an updated model of Kael'thas is made, and the hosts discuss the potential return of the Dragon Isles, which were teased in BFA but possibly cut.
- **Player housing** [02:37:09] — The hosts are big supporters of player housing, suggesting it could be implemented in old zones with instanced areas, and would greatly enhance the sense of world and community.
- **Guild halls** [02:41:04] — The hosts discuss the benefits of guild halls as a totem to shared achievements, citing FF14's housing as a positive example, and argue that the social dynamics concerns are overblown.
- **WoW's longevity** [02:48:29] — The hosts compare WoW to Old School RuneScape, noting that WoW's stylized art holds up well, and that it can go the distance if content remains interesting.

### Conclusion

The show wraps up with a discussion on the future of WoW, including the potential for classic plus, new classes, and player housing, emphasizing that while the game has its issues, it remains a beloved world with many possibilities.

## Transcript

hello every what um i don't know if you can hear me if you can uh we maybe have had a bad hdmi cable um take out the capture card but we live here in a sea of hdmi cables so
matt's currently on his way to fix it we'll be on soon
we are here it is time for the live world of warcraft news damn good things uh i think to talk about this time absolutely yep so uh yeah we had a dead hdmi cable like you know that
telltale like green artifacting you get on your hdmi is like a bit busted would have ruined the show and it only started playing up uh 30 seconds before start maybe a minute before start
minute before start ah so just the cursive tech stuff like yeah um let's see joel says he has no audio but other people don't seem to say so so we're probably okay maybe yes everything seems fine on our
side so good good yeah we'll probably uh or two before we actually get into the show proper yes and for that we actually have a viewer question for our pre-show hit me with that we've
got content in the pre-show can you [ __ ] imagine all right so [ __ ] imagine all right so one one of the viewers before we started asked do you recommend world of warcraft to
do you recommend world of warcraft to new players in 2021 context is he likes league of legends and likes pvp
recommend world of warcraft that is the overall question and a spicy one to open the show with if you like league of legends if you like league of legends and pvp then there is definitely
potential for it to be a great like regular game for you because that is what like there's so much audience overlap between that kind of not quite monogamy but close to that
because the the level of depth in pvp can be astounding to that point yes there is like there is definitely a massive amount of like i mean how many 15 16 years of knowledge in the background that's
of that up but the pvp scene is honestly like if that's what you're going in for yeah absolutely go for it and shatter lances pretty like i wouldn't have said this maybe two or three expansions ago
but now you shall land yeah absolutely yeah i would have for pvp in i think a few recent expansions gearing and so many things that would motivate you to do pvp are like
motivate you to do pvp are like broken and a bit borked i would right now though and that's especially i mean i'm not even a mainline pvp like not at all
coming in 9.1 that's vaguely exciting to me because hunter i i got into like a few battlegrounds and suddenly i was like oh there's more class customization for me to do
there's all of these actually pretty cool abilities for me to use somebody can give him a basilisk or whatever is going on it doesn't matter but yeah that side's
actually pretty sweet now it obviously does have a large large legends player it's not like you're used to getting new maps every day but of course i think for a game like world of warcraft
it's going to need more maps so if you're joining world warcraft 4 pvp i you're going to have you know in the case of a new person they're not tired currently for battlegrounds and stuff so they're going to be able to come in and
all that content for existing people i mean we're just kind of sitting there being like yep give us more please so it's funny totally say if you like things like league and
you like all of that yeah pvp is good and what's nice now is for a lot of it you can just pvp get a bunch of your gear via pvp bunch of your gear via pvp and uh that's that you know like the pvp
verse that's the stat that you need it could be even better for pvpers though actually considering a warlord of draenor like pvp's pvp gear is pvp gear like it just gets
and that is something that they said they're considering so for somebody like that i'm going to say yes i guess to take that question though of is it worth getting into world of
world warcraft in 2021 out to a more broad perspective where it gets interesting if if we're going to talk about somebody who thinks they would like collection gameplay and just that side
or maybe role-playing then yeah a hundred percent world of warcraft all of that old content still exists you can do it for your collection gameplay you can get all your mounts and if
time unlike all of us who have unlocked everything over the past you actually will have a bunch to do like you know it's a pity there's not a way to like uh i suppose no could you
i'm wondering if you like party sync or something would scale up the um for a new player they just go do their legion order hall campaigns and you're yeah yeah that's a whole bunch of content do your suramar do all of that
so i guess then the other side is the likes of you know mythic plus and that type of game plays is this a good time if you're into that sort of thing it almost certainly ah it's interesting
actually understanding the flow of mythic plus and how dungeons play i think there's a decent amount of uh like required reading there almost but it's so it's not quite as easy to just
hop into a game as it is in any anything other that's like uh matchmaking based but if you aren't shackled by any of the reasons are maybe less engaged with some of the modern games playing
actually just go and play mythic plus there is a very defined bit of game that if you're if you're going to play that like you would league or if you're i mean even likes of cs go any of those games where
that like for mythic plus it is almost certainly a good time the middle of season one but given valor's been added yeah it's a case where i actually think that for
that for those players across pvp and m plus might feel a little bit big but is actually a lot smaller than you because you can catch up to the important parts quick it's actually
pretty much great yeah yeah it's you know it's funny it's like that weird so many of us feel old and crusty and jaded uh but you kind of look at it it's like for a totally fresh new player
yeah stuff would be stuff would be pretty good like the leveling right now is pretty sweet we both leveled a whole bunch of characters in beta and stuff like that um which you know fun experience not
that we have the characters to show for it because it was on beta you're i mean the new raid's great the mythic plus is great the pvp is great yeah it's a pretty good situation for
a collections player and you're willing to delve into all that past stuff that's all pretty good i guess just maybe for those like would like hit up shadowlands and you know they'd be expecting
the storyline to be as well told as like a final fantasy 14 one and when i say that i mean the storytelling not the lore right there um you know they'd want that level of polish for the in-game cutscenes that
they want those well-paced you know campaigns and instead no they get a confident campaign they get like i mean i guess ideally 15 minutes a week though not really with renowned catch-up it's actually funny with renowned
this is like probably the best time to do the covenant campaign because you might actually get to experience it with a modicum of pacing yeah for sure no i think there's like there's one
it's not actually a caveat to your experience at the end of the day but i think the major problem is that it's overwhelming imagine logging in and landing in orbos and not knowing
what to do it doesn't do a super good job of leading around the place but if you have like even a modicum of guidance from a guide from or from someone who plays the game who can tell you what's like important
second and you you could ignore that package not every part of it is great but engage with them properly actually can be yeah i think that's an
interesting thing like wow is it is so segmented per expansion i'm pretty sure channel about that yeah uh where the content it's like some for a while that's thrown in the bin because there's a new thing
i think that probably leads to a game that feels really dense and worrisome to new people certainly from anecdotal experience oh yeah maybe i'll get into world of warcraft
it's always turned very quickly to yeah but it's been out for 15 years and to which any world of warcraft player goes no you wouldn't the effort i put in three months ago is now irrelevant because of catch up
at that but i think there's like an a slowly onboarded meta knowledge of how to think about and process the that a new player doesn't and i think with wow it's like
it's grown so with its audience and like audience that the things you will learn from may be very confusing if you apply them to wow yeah i think i think it is the
in with the intent you need to go into the intent and with the guidance because it can be like there's a almost like a really high noise to signal ratio there what have you discovered i've discovered
the plan is in the way of the camera next one farewell uh sorry that per thing seeing some rough times but yeah i think uh i think there's there's a lot to get there's a lot of noise
of warcraft and i think a lot of players have all this accumulated knowledge that almost clouds exactly what people need to know so i think whenever you have um whenever
i'm going to go pdp like i mean maybe maybe not because they're incredibly like uh informative guide content but the like of the likes of plf and savix's pvp oriented videos that is like
a little culture of woe that's really fully formed and often it's a nice segment that i think you could hop into that really well and if you follow them single-mindedness i know they do other content but it's like that their main
that being single-minded that way you could absolutely get absolutely get into that really well the same you would any little game or any single game sorry yeah i mean
p-lab is great p-level so god damn funny i love him uh yeah i remember that and oh scottish guy i think he did pvp as well uh oh well he had the you know the song of you know well slice your balls stomp the
thing what was he called ragtag ragtag that was it uh man yeah i think that's actually a big thing it's those elements of the game it's so much you can get some sort of community in yeah and i think in the past that
warcraft used to be a lot more experiential it was like you watched make love not warcraft the ultimate geek out fantasy sort of land where all
mattered yeah because you know if you watch make of warcraft was a really hardcore sandbox game where one player could come in and ruin everything uh or it's obviously not like
but at least in the past it always felt like it was more like hey let's go on this big shared adventure and now that i think about it you know it's not about oh yeah you know the big shared adventure it's
it's kind of more like right where okay p-lab's not exactly videos like but you know it's a lot more like bam yeah you know it's like you're going to do like that for your pvp you're going
notes and stuff like that for your your automatic jacks uh for your pve and i i think that that being like the space um i wonder if that means that i was
going to retract like those more because wow is like no longer just the general i wonder if that means that the people driven by some of those personalities and maybe
has like a higher level of gameplay specificity like i don't exactly know if you go on to twitch uh do you see people who enjoy world of warcraft for a general fantasy experience
people but a lot of those people would be people would be watching preach the kind of more really old creators for that stuff because i mean his drama time is very much
all of the stuff you have with your guild he obviously is more like he also has a like roots in that whole thing but like
when it comes to the audience for the likes of savings your prelabs and then like jinji's for example those they have communities that i can't like watch our content for example because it's such a different
segment of audience that like i mean savix's videos are actually just what that basically the entire brand is and
that speaks to uh entirely maybe not an entirely like younger out around like our age group but this definitely hits that twitch audience really well in a way that people who are used to warcraft from
aren't super familiar with yeah yeah like i i feel like a lot of the warcraft yeah it is that sort of so gameplay focused thing that i guess different from say what maybe was in matson's head
around with the whiteboard not even 20 years ago so an interesting situation actually lots of reasons why it is a pretty good time to try world of if you were even getting into that gameplay oriented stuff right now
of that there are misgivings of some of the more think that stuff really impacts a newbie too much before we dive into the news okay we've got a
super chat from david granger who says oh like guys tbc classic is going to have launch raid and content staggered unlike opinions in this change and other changes that you think blizzard will
they promised yeah do they only promise no changes for vanilla interesting one so yes they technically are staggering they're technically doing that because mount hyjal is not going to
be there at launch however i guess relevant because we're doing our tbc series in the minute yeah while hychal was there at launch for tbc no one did it you basically couldn't
no one did it you basically couldn't so the difference between tbc launch to people getting into high gel of wow classic tbc and actual tbc i'd say it's probably going to be about the same right because
people did not get into high jaw for a long time it may as well have not been yeah it's one of those things where i actually think that i think that by making this change and uh the please don't strike me up but
it's like by making this change they ca they can artificially stop people from meta gaming the game in a way that it wasn't played before mean obviously there is a reason to do this thing where
you have it's available launch people will like speedrun see can we beat the original time obviously they can but uh this way it actually will be accurate to the initial experience even if the game's different
it's a change that makes the game feel like it felt at the time which i think is a really going to be a controversial move if they try that in any other kind of way
but i think that's i think that's probably their reasoning for it as opposed to fixing any mistakes that's what i imagine anyway true it's like no changes vanilla may as well be
changes vanilla big changes vanilla in the actual gameplay experience because they're engaging with it differently they're generally better times were crushed across the board that's that i think they did
that's that i think they did launch like post nerf bosses generally i think they're not going to do that for classic tbc because they probably recognize that wow the players creamed the content of
lot less there's a lot less actual issues there as well because i mean i think i think a lot of what happened with the classic post nerf and the whatever was it 1.13 it technically
but with our content i don't think that's a problem for tbc onwards because they have better records of server data from back then so they can actually time i i might be making that up but i know i i
classic foray yeah like i think they're launching with changes anyway like i think some of the the leveling changes yeah a whole bunch of there's like so into the game over the duration of uh of tbc
and it's funny this is all stuff that like it's all knocking around my head kind of played it but was obviously a total noob so didn't fully appreciate it when it was happening um but also
uh words yes but also we were going to do the complete history of tbc like ages ago and we ended up doing one episode and wasn't working out but from all of that shocking amount of just
added through there so that's our basically that's our opinion there is one more super chat to cover before we get stuck into the news though that is from david granger uh hang on yes that's from david granger again
thank you david uh who says imagine warcraft three expansion campaigns where we play through world of warcraft content up to current xbox and content come so i think what he's getting at is
some sort of campaign that would like i guess take you on a journey through oh don't do this to me that would be so cool would be so that would be really really fun that'd be fantastic oh yeah it's i
blizzard could you know effectively smartly reuse some of what they've got and then sort of wind that into a new experience like what is the percentage of current world warcraft players that have played
through the catastory line or the wrath storyline and actually know what's going you know it would be pretty interesting imagine i don't know what you would call it like because time walking is the obvious name
but that's the dungeon thing that blizzard do but yeah what if you had something where via the scenario system or maybe just even a quest chain blizzard did some sort of thing to like
the end game of an expansion i've had too much uh too much because uh so the end game of an expansion uh in a way that actually experience they could use scaling and stuff like that
maybe such that you could do your leveling up through northrend and then do another campaign uh like in northrend that would take you through in a way where you could actually appreciate it where it would take you
from you know helping out bolvar against uh i don't know lord [ __ ] the lich not kel'thuzad the other one remember the names you know do that take us to ulduar give us the
there and i think the only way that most people experience it right now is probably a novel video yeah it's obviously no knock to noble but it's like if you want to know the crack with wrath of the lich king
northround you're just going to be confused because campaign way so yes david thank you for thank you for the actually does really it does bring you places mentally and
we've had discussions about you know what if you had uh lower for each continent what if you had lore master campaigns you know what if via the archaeology profession they're able to do something
that would tie you know tied together via campaigns they could do there that would really just involve reusing assets reusing the content wouldn't actually have to look like new modern wow content because
its expansion so actually interesting questions yeah absolutely that's uh i i have to try not to think about because it's uh i just i would love that so
in like you could imagine every like other major patch bringing some stuff in it'll just be this beautiful cadence to blend in with anything but let's it's maybe like you're too far down there yeah
said but it's the sort of thing if they were more content like you know just just text just characters basic quests to then tie it together you could really
awesome awesome experience it could even be an incredible thing for new players so yeah food for thought a good one but with that said
might just be time for the world of warcraft news what do you say warcraft news what do you say let's go for it let's get right into the news don't worry not like that nope nope nope
we uh i guess we'll start here with what i have on screen which is the valor points we know exactly how much is that siri that was serious nice very good so
us on ptr effectively for so long uh it went live obviously so we know how much value we get and it's i can see why they didn't tell us yeah it's a weird decision it was
honestly extremely stupid not to tell us though full news story what i want to talk about first is what i think is the more important story and that is that blizzard does all these
ptrs and these betas and what that effectively is is asking for unpaid labor from their players now if those players are willing to do that then that is obviously a hundred percent okay
that at least try to set those people up you so at least try to set it up so that they can and this is the one thing that i just wish
they were better at and what it reminds me of 100 all the time which is what is the main thing we've got to get done get videos out but i mean say for our clips channel
whole bunch of tweets to promote those clips and do youtube community posts uh you know no more than once a day really to highlight specific clips that i think are you know super relevant extra sort
that the regular channel audience would want to see that is important stuff to and it's good for the user experience blah blah blah blah blah and doesn't get and it doesn't get done because the real thing we're here to do
is make videos so apply this the situation with blizzard and i think for their main thing is developing the game right so i think knowing that i mean it's obvious they do not have
enough resources in the community team i mean the european community team you know it's going away right uh with him over in over in america and it's that thing what
is going to be those big milestones those big things they've got to get done coordinating with the developers getting the player feedback from the forums and i think that just means that a lot of really important stuff
slips through the cracks in these testing processes and it means that we're flying blind and the reason why i get a little bit pissed it's like you're asking for our time to help to test the game and to help you
refine your product so it can be better and more profitable we actually want to help you do that so could you please give us what we need to give you good feedback uh and that's what gets me during beta
we had so many instances where we were just as testers is you know let's just say vp drops whatever it drops on on ptr but it's the public test realm
there's literally a disclaimer that it's work in progress the numbers etc etc when you're a player trying to diagnose that system trying to provide blizzard that could help them get ahead of issues make the game better
you can't because you don't know whether that value on the beta that value on the beta is or the ptr is true you just have no and they don't tell you and we've consistently had this thing where
principle of uh you know of what blizzard wants to and if they had just said yeah you know we're not 100 sure on the amount of but we're actually thinking of making it fixed regardless of keystone level
and here's our reasoning why if they did that in a post we would have been able to sit down and actually you know engage with them and engage with them having a context of what they actually intend and the
and i think that because they don't do that they end up with situations if you go under our competitive wow which i did what you basically saw is the knee-jerk reaction comments being really quite negative
well thought out comments they were really explaining why there's actually here you know i went on to wow heads you know the responses to their twitter thread on this particular story
and yeah there's a lot of people that seemed confused it seemed unintuitive and it just for me comes back to that consistent pattern with blizzard where consistent pattern with blizzard where we do not know what they intend uh
was to say one thing for blizzard as we move into the future there just has to be some sort of way that they do a better uh now there have been times where you know lore i believe compiles
those uh like developer updates whenever like a new build this where you know there was posts like that it actually did not discuss valor points in terms of acquisition it i think it
but it just didn't tell you it didn't tell you much currency you get doing mythic plus and for us not actually seeing blizzard say that
what that means is we might see that 135 value in ptr and maybe purposefully admitted it then we cannot treat that 135 that was on the ptr as actually being
true you know um val one of the he's watched i've watched us since the beginning remember streaming timeless aisles and he was in chat uh you know he did some
research in ptr found 135 and it's like yeah that's neat but if their blue post how the hell do we know that 135 means anything so we're going to get into the story but i
first wanted to just talk about that um so you guys can sort understand a little bit of what the testing process is like think quite a few testers would have where you know
i mean obviously we do have a profit motive to do that but at the same time if you know we will sit down and spend systems and yeah it's a part of what we're doing here and those are monetized
youtube videos but we do want the info to be really be useful to blizzard you know we want to we want to help uh so it's just that sort of thing where
you just feel a bit hamstrung sometimes yeah i'm not i'm not going to continue any further so we can get into the story but i'll leave one point remember what condiments were going to be like before they told us their
intention and we said hang on hang on no what are you doing destroy destructible gem sockets that's what they were going to be and they were upfront with that they
this is how we're thinking these are going to work and as a community we went no no not not as in to try and strong-arm them into making the game the way we want but it's a case of
with all of these like beautiful bits of feedback just here's what's going to happen with if this system goes live like this they read it and they went yep we agree yeah it's
worth it in the in the long-term health of the game it's worth it to take the time give their developers the freedom to like go i've designed a system i'm going to take to the forums and say here's my blog
hit me feedback at this link or something like that yeah i think that's totally worth it i better me worries that we've got to the stage where that's that we've got to the stage where that's challenging or maybe where
community team to be the people who shift that over to and if there's maybe a bit of isolation there and perhaps if some of the decisions that i would personally believe have been made
in a situation of a little bit of isolation from the player base yes that's obviously fostered a lot of discontent and i think while has obviously never been squeaky clean but
you don't you actually don't understand how i play the game i mean remember torments oh yeah the all-out war from everybody in torments that was like if you think these torments should be in the game
is played sorry you know uh i just wonder if some of that like dev player connection has been a little bit hampered a little bit hurt by a bit of a big corporate machine sort of enforcing some distance between
i mean if you look at a game like ashes of creation like the ceo can just hop onto a skype call with asthma gold and bam obviously that can happen with you know you're only get going to get to
talk to a blizzard developer you know on a zoom call where there is a some form of pr role and that's not full it's a big company it's grown up that way so
going to nip it in the bud i think these are things that are all very interesting uh i would say don't listen to this and then give laura a i don't think that these things are happening because
uh you know of any issues there i think it's because like dude probably just needs more team members more resources the ability to actually do more things you know yeah um like i remember i did a video
years ago on like just some community issues with world of citizen which effectively is a monetized live via their youtube and stuff does a pretty good job of engaging
yeah or my video being like yeah good video that's really interesting so i know that laura actually does give a to be really good um i just think there are times where
they fall through the cracks and you've got situations here where people find out oh it's points they can if i find it out and then they end up screwed and confused and what happens when a player
they get angry and the wow cycle perpetuates itself so to get into the actual news in our world of warcraft news show mythic plus dungeons it is 135 valor points regardless
of the difficulty of the dungeon that you do have already recorded the pre-recorded wow uh are we cannibalizing our own content who knows yes probably we'll find out
sitting down trying to puzzle out this system i think i know why blizzard made most of the decisions that they made and i actually agree with almost all of them yeah yeah
about like where you were where you thought they were coming from in this regard yeah and it's like it's i'll let you explain it in a second but it's like it's technically correct but the way
we are shown the package feels a bit odd yeah yeah yeah because as yeah as a player you're you're thinking about okay i'm gonna get a currency for doing
if i do the harder version of it obviously i'll get more currency that's intuitive uh it doesn't apply to anima funny enough but that is what you naturally think i do the harder thing so i get more stuff
not more gear you get higher item level gear if you're talking about a two-handed weapon two-handed weapon that drops may as well be a thousand valor points
you're always going to want to target a mythic plus 15 for the fastest gearing of all those valor points now there's another thing if you if we're just to say oh just grind mists of tierne scythe plus twos forever
the game's awful it's now just like maw three test runs forever is a seasonal that you're running your mythic plus two tearing a scythe and you've got like an
two-hander that you want to bring up to eye level 220 with your valor points um are you sure you want to do that because that would cost you points you can earn assuming like a 22 week
season and 750 vp a week you can earn like the i don't know 16 000 vp right 16 000 vp in in the entire season
are you seriously going to want to spend more than a third of your entire vp on just that one thing because you've thought the best thing to do what blizzard clearly intends for you to do
that is well the great vault in fact oh wow actually this is a this is a realization that may have hit me
uh what if blizzard held back i level 226 in the great vault such what if they did that with the intent that players would always want to get 10
that players would always want to get 10 mythic plus uh 15 runs to get run drop or whatever the highest and the highest weekly box level is because if you could maybe they thought
system then that would leave there being less of an content that you could so there's that there's then also the well i mean yeah you'll always want to do at least 10 m plus dungeons
uh well if you're a bigger employees player anyway uh at the highest that you to get your three options a great vault now there's another thing now there's another thing the other thing is this system is right
now 5750 uh vp that you can get but that's because that's increasing by 750 a week from the start of season one of shadowlands now that means that this system is
basically balanced with uh with a weekly acquisition of 750 in mind that is 4.5 wait no what am i talking about so 750 divided by 135
by 135 sorry 5.5 that's doing 5.5 mythic plus now if you want to get two options in your chest you're doing four dungeons that's most of your vp cap so right now this is all a little bit
maybe feeling odd to players basically oh but i'm doing the harder content i'd expect to get more points uh but it actually all i think does level out make sense once you explain it just that that's not exactly intuitive
and that's why there was mixed reactions yeah i mean that's people had with the system is just
fixed but is entirely a framing thing if they had dropped that to like a and then said you get an extra five or maybe not tens that'll be insane but like an extra five or an extra you know dropping 50 an extra 10 per level
know dropping 50 an extra 10 per level then people went uh okay we understand we get it i think that would have been because the cap is so like that that's actually a lot compared to the cap i'm genuinely surprised that
week to cap because especially when like a plus two that's that's no time whatsoever to do it yeah i mean it used to be once a day seven dungeons a week yeah i mean that's
added extra added extra per key even just a made sense and i think that's that's where most of the problem is where most of the problem is the system is at least relatively
balanced this way and think but i think it it is a case where if that wouldn't have been a problem if it explained exactly what they were
thinking here exactly i think um brett merger said there is no cap uh no there there is a cap it increases by 750 per week there was originally intended to be a cap of 1500 on your character at once
is 750 a week it's just that right now we are it's just that right now we are a week 5 750 divided by 750
seven or whatever uh that's why the cap is is big right yeah that's how it's gonna how it's gonna increase over time that's that with this system you can absolutely make a big mistake
a big mistake i mean there are some players who are to think to themselves well i just got this new drop is it base no but i need more performance out of my character to try
to push the content that i want to push so i'm going to upgrade this bit of gear wrong if you upgrade a piece of gear that is not a part of your base set and then you replace that bit of gear
the bit of gear you upgrade is now no longer in your character but you've just eaten up however many valor points out of your seasonal cap because your seasonal cap as i said say assuming a 22 week long season
750 a week it's like 16 000 or something 16 500 yeah so that is another odd little uh odd little thing about this system i suppose and it's one that doesn't appear
conquest upgrades are of course capped by your uh and honor is just you know you can just get on until the cows come home acquisition of gear that you specifically choose
differences between the two yeah i think there's uh i think there's a pretty handy way to this is talking there i think i envision a solve for that specific
because that feels really unintuitive in a way that i think will really really like ruin some players and i thought of it in the way of oh obviously the solution's easy if you understand that you're fine
so long then you do need a way to temporarily gear up a bit faster especially if you're hitting valor cap it's like it's it's just going to feel terrible that you're setting a cap and
even though it doesn't materially matter it's still going to feel bad so i think the i think the actual solve there is probably probably to add a dismantle system i actually agree and i think i agree
actually agree and i think i agree because game feels like a toy and it feels like you can tinker you know you just want to be garrus in the back doing his calibrations right
so if you know oh yeah i've went you know 6 000 vp into the seasonal cap i put on a bunch of gear and then you get your base you're like oh cool i'll strip the upgrades off that bit of gear and slap them in this bit of gear
just got this pool of you know vp that you can use to like redistribute item levels in your gear and then suddenly that's uh i can but you know suddenly that's then a
a player actually has got this resource to play with throughout a season go through the season they feel like they're getting more options uh so that is kind of neat although that said of course
problem solving mode so then what if you know jimmy wants this inscrutable quantum device he's got 6 000 vp in his character simcraft and i've uh raidbots and i've worked out that this
item level as i can whole bunch of plus twos until i get that trinket drop and i'm going to that right now for the maximum gain right now
you could also think what if you know that allows people to actively rebalance the vp of their character absolutely perfectly at every single step oh dear will people be simming seven thousand times a day you know uh
will you know whenever raidbots goes public will it have a higher valuation who knows so you can you know you can't see issues of the system like that power in the players hands if they want to be stupid with it and fair enough let
personally i would rather engage with the system like that yeah i think uh i think there's a lot of those problems are i think solvable by just little bits i think just little little things i mean obviously this is literally
they've thrown valor in they've done a loose copy of pvp adjusted for pve it's in a 0.05 patch hopefully there'll be something like this in future because i can't imagine they're blind to all of these problems that does oh
yeah as effectively armchair devs for the warcraft have figured out i'm had stuff on the radar we know the blizzard are pretty damn good at uh thinking about problems first almost all the time yes
almost to the point where they will let the solution to a problem you know almost do more damage than it's worth yeah but that's a different topic for a different time for sure i think that's mostly us wrapped up in the valor
point thing you know what it basically means is your you're going to want to get your options from the vault you'll get some vp along the way and you can use it that's your tldr you
it or or anything like that and i think the as you said they're aware of the issues that could crop up patch 9.1 imagine this system will be tweaked to hell and reset for that
our next piece of news which is little tweaks and improvements hijack that to say two to david granger
two to david granger multiple david grangers uh also uh multiple david grangers uh also uh thomas tomas i think tomas uh and grant doing a control the show segment
news so super chats we will that we will go on to them it will be good fun until then though speaking of small tweaks you can now purchase five marks of honor for 2 000 honor in orbos yeah this is a this is a bigger
deal than you would imagine but mostly from the perspective of from the perspective of for the entirety of the 9.0.2 with and there's nothing for them so at the
and i think this is actually more interesting because this was at the very tail end of ptr this was a last minute change maybe it was planned and it only went in later but it was
the release candidate because i remember it was the last it was it was after i think it was after we had one of those saying oh this is new yeah i was like whoa whoa
agility and problem solving from blizzard blizzard specifically for pvp that's uh not the opposite of ford boating it's really it's
really it's i'm lost spooky spooky i mean spooky in in a good way right uh you know we don't want to seem the time but generally speaking blizzard is this like
pound gorilla i don't even know how heavy gorillas get but you know powerful strong gorilla with all the resources and stuff in the world and as they did things there's a big corporate company with hundreds of
issues yeah they're a tank yeah yeah and then suddenly we saw all this crazy agility they were slapping hot fixes into everything left right and center mythic plus dungeons were just changing
a whole bunch uh this was added in i think you can get fish for your valor points amazing buy a bag necessary fish but crafting uh resources um changes to the raid
gearing that was all hot fixed in and you know it's generally speaking what we always found with blazes they put these problems and they just long i was like well you don't like the current version all its issues ah we're
going to change it later i mean i wonder did they i mean i wonder did they maybe see patch 8.3 went oh you know did 8.3 basically [ __ ] collapse and fall over
and then once they decided to add in new currency systems did they maybe see an optic did they maybe realize oh yeah mid season changes turns out if there's a problem the players would like solved
back and they play because that's certainly happening season one is better it just is better this is a better time to play wow now 100 100 so yeah
is yeah you can get marks of honor for doing that stuff actually we talked about this uh last time but it's just that thing you can get all these marks of honor and go shopping with your character have a
day out you know day out in the shops yeah the i think the the very next thing that i don't want to say needs to happen but then the obvious thing here is where's the marks of valor that would be
interesting thing because there is that thing though where thing though where uh there's a lot of gameplay like that to build your set yeah and if they did do some sort of marks of valor
you know they could end up or at least they could maybe say to the cannibalizing that and i guess you could have issues where you could farm up your marks of valor by doing
some content and then you could maybe spend them in content you couldn't it's like one of you farmed up marks of valor in like i don't know whatever but you spent them on you know bfa raid stuff which you can't really
solo right now so there could be some issues there but idea yeah just you know you just have to get a bunch of the details right i think it's that thing where if it's a
little bit more formalized in some way that you can do then i think people be more willing to engage with it yeah i'm trying to think like i don't know why the fire lands in my head for something but i was thinking
if there's ways for you to like get marks of valor out of your base currency and then do something with other like gear or loot from old raids that might make sense i mean i'm sure
nightmare initially for setup and would probably take or two but just go through to just go through tokens like from that specific raid on
maybe the trash in a raid maybe the end boss of each raid from the past and then set up like a vendor at the entrance or rotating thing where i think all those all those problems are
fairly solvable but it's just a case of it's right there they introduce otter and then conquest and the defender properly for actual current content being fed through
as opposed to praying you get them and i think it's just it's there it's there why not use it it's funny it's like it's like if i ended up a blizzard somehow it's like the one project
basically how can we really thriftly get more out of this thing how can we really thriftly and cheaply and you know roguishly and all of that make more use out of the stuff that is in the
world of warcraft that's what i would probably be more just because i feel like through all of these things there is so much potential just a sort of thing where all you'd really need is a half decent
implemented well and it probably wouldn't require a lot of new art assets or things like that to do and yeah just like how marks of honor helped unlock a little bit of a system there yeah you know
could could happen so i think that's that's that for markzware that's us that's that for markzware that's us how are we for the next story okay well time lambasting them for this change uh based on the previous behavior because
just a load of bugs that occurred in 9.0.5 9.0.5 yes i suppose with the rapid progress of well this patch coming out
in a state where we i mean we didn't know what valor points were so we did not think it was coming out as quickly as it right now um there was a few bugs i mean it's mostly forgivable stuff it's
obviously not great if it happens to you um but yeah a bunch of people went in supposed to give him 500 anime if capped gave him 250 instead yep since been hotfixed so fair enough problem solved yeah i think the i think
solash not been awarded from torcast for a very very happy that it didn't happen to me yeah i would have been furious but it's it's a case where all of these little things are slipping through the
cracks for them with this patch which again like with the marks of honor thing i actually think it's it's them making the right decisions it's them going okay we haven't super
like we haven't tested this patch and fitted them internally we haven't every bug is fixed was like oh this is this is ready is it is it 90 done yeah all right good it's kind of
i love food analogies but it's like an egg take it out of the pan you take it out of the pan before it's
so that's what they're doing with patches they're kind of going you're almost done the players the residual heat it's it's the case where it's close enough it'll do and i think
if if that give them this patch a week early and then that's an extra week they can do another things you can see how that'll compound into them buying lots of time and lots of resources over
yeah i mean a week is a big big percentage of uh of a year when you really get into it almost you know the time between patches is measured in weeks so if you can save a week here and a week there then oh
next patch is going to be two weeks earlier maybe it gives you a bit more time for pre-production in the next one totally yeah totally understandable so mean that's fine people might be a little bit
pissed off with the next one though which is again they just went fast and there we go ah yes or smirking blood elves yeah it's it's weird i think they actually like i mean this
they're going fast because how does how does the chi like a change like that of the fist bones go just slip in there they're clearly going i hope they can fix it soon because it is a little
alliance right now but yeah yeah it's the sort of thing ah i get it i'm not gonna be pissed off adam for anything like that but also yeah it's kind of unfortunate yeah so there were some bugs but we'll all live
yeah we'll point on to the is it is that really the really not much has happened has her well it's a decently big one yep here we go believe also some power would be useful for you
ah yes whoops that's a 33 that's a third i'll get by yeah that little bit of work it's almost like 10 percent in an hour and a bit we have some we are highly trained professionals oh
absolutely so this is i mean judging by chat this waiting for hmm and that is that we have news for classic and you know this actually coming out and seeming a bit more
me uh like a positive one but yeah it's like i saw this and i thought oh [ __ ] this is like this is like the time when i first got into world of warcraft has actually came up
accounts and stuff like that during the vanilla era but you know other than doing that in game you know the land center i gamed out after the rowing club
like it was this early tbc stuff that was when i was properly getting into the game so to me the idea that the pre-patch for tbc example and level that up as it kind of as it
was yeah that's actually pretty exciting and that it could be may 18th if that date is to be you know is that's real cool i mean okay well may 18th that's uh
mean it's currently the it's currently the 12th of march so it is about nine weeks away i believe it's about nine weeks away which means they really if this is no i
i was going to say they need to hurry up with the uh alpha and beta for printing sig but if this is pre-patch and they plan to run this for a couple then they could it would cause some overlap but they could run the
any bitters and this concurrently yeah and that would that would probably work for most people if they're given level 70 premades or like 58s or 60s on the beta yeah um so i'm just trying to think about dates overall so this is
happening may 18th yes right and then that pre-patch is which would not surprise me at all considering the amount of time it takes yeah and then assuming the blizzard wants
their you know august time major release yeah i i personally would be expecting tbc to happen in in around august so if you've got from may till august for for leveling up i mean
more importantly that's like two points of hype right for the game and generally warcraft you'll want to spread out your you know lots of them over time it doesn't feel like the dry speaking of the dry spells
so i guess i have to wonder when does it say anything for patch 9.1 at all or are we just going to have a situation where it's like patch 9.1
and classic pre-patch basically happen at the same time if i had to harbor a guess i would say their current plan their current plan is 9.1 to be likely mid late june
maybe that's a little bit far away it's a little far away but that would that would give them enough run time for late august tbc to not impact the initial wave of 9.1 stuff
so i imagine they actually might just overlap these instead but i think they are very much in a situation where sometimes the game development cycles and release cycles will just because they're two
they will overlap and there's not much they can do about it but i think that i think there's a there's a i mean for pre-patch i imagine that'll draw a decent amount of uh engagement but it wouldn't it
wouldn't destroy a 9.1 patch as much as the actual launch i think i think they're probably fine to do that i don't know if there's much to overall date wise here but okay it's just interesting to me i'm trying to
just those times where wow is it's in vogue it's talked about in places and all that all that [ __ ] seems like pretty just pretty strong for getting well public space um so yeah i mean 18th of if it is going
which is what this data mine string would sort of suggest even though we placeholder it could just be [ __ ] it says default cloned it not expected cloned it or wanted cloned it it's just here's a date we have in this global
string yeah so it's like if it you know if it was then i mean it's kind it's kind of funny like you saying you're saying june heebie-jeebies you know i mean yeah the situation where
november's x-pac launch and like mid-june is the next patch and like mid-june is the next patch and especially in the in the case where was the end of june right oh i could not tell you so i i don't want to
sure let's just say i have somewhat heard maybe be like yeah it obviously wasn't me and we
obviously know why it was because you know battlefront kind of fell over and they had to do a whole bunch of fixing but that was a long ass time and yeah there was you know 8.1.5 there was 8.1
without patch 8.1 and patch 8.1.5 both patches that added in substantial content you know not super substantial but 815 did add in was it brawler's guild and the whole zalath quest line that of
course led up to crucible of storms uh yeah it's just i mean you saying that also what you're saying is not completely insane because we are you know it's the 12th of march
we're in mid-march right now and if a ptr takes two and a half months and if a ptr takes two and a half months that's typically what they do take i mean for a major patch right then we're looking at two and a half months
june and that's in a situation where you've got this perhaps just this pretty large gap of time but past there hasn't been that tight over content you
or 7-1 the you know the the invasions coming in for 8-1 so yeah a bit odd i think it just does speak to us for a while right now
obviously behind and they're obviously behind but i would begrudge them because everyone in the industry is behind warcraft monogamer you may not realize it because you know the only thing
of course we run the other channel right i mean if your game was supposed to come out in 2021 almost certainly isn't the delays that have happened have been wild
that can't be delayed because of its very nature so i think i think that's probably why they did so much to get 9.0.5 out i think they knew they needed that stop gap and there
was just no other way they could get 9-1 sort of in our hands on time so not that's happened to the world yeah it's terrible at least at least they're not under fire for uh what is it i think it was santa monica's
it was only a little bit of a little bit of eye it wasn't too bad but people were starting to go why did you announce god of war 2 for there was no way that was going to happen and it was like
kind of conspiratorial but it was a case where community knows that kovit knocked so many things and going nah nah even we know that's
yeah but if you want to sell a bunch of ps5s you definitely want your audience thinking the next year there's going to be i'm not subscribing to that theory but yeah you could say that yeah for this it's
uh it's a case where i'm i'm happier for it to take as long as i need it's it's kind of the short-term loss for a long-term gain at least i feel that way because if 9.1 came out at the end of
may and it launched with a whole host of bugs some like numbers weren't shooting correctly it's a case where if they if they do second wave of stygia stuff or whatever they're gonna go i don't know if they
the new venari currency yeah but whatever the new thing is for venary and corthia if that's like balanced off or suffer so many of the same problems like i felt that anima has for the balance of numbers i will be
significantly more upset than waiting another week or two or three weeks for a a large part of our personal issues with the game is like we enjoy the raid stuff but we feel like you know that content that we would do
in between raids during the legion expansion so like the class order hall uh we don't like renown neither of us like it you know basically for me what should feel like a battle pass that you earn
instead feels like a dressed up time gate achieved what i think it should have achieved in the player experience from the pacing of that
of anime we both think that stygia is completely stupid and broken incredible potential but it's just like the lego set was put together wrong so it doesn't work it's less basically so much we think
conversations about this between between each other got all these great parts but it was put together in a big rush together in a big rush such shadowlands is i would say so
much less than the sum of its parts in a way that became extremely obvious completed yes you know once your renown slowed down and your anime gains were just kind of what they were
and your initial fun gearing via stuff like the unranked pvp gearing system once that stuff is over it just sort of fell to pieces a bit and so much of that is just the assembly stage and that's the sort
of thing where uh i mean i can't say some of the conversations that we are having regarding what the game studio is doing over here um when we're doing dates we are trying
to ensure that we have a big runway for the bit that just playing our game again and again and again and again and again and working out what are the little bits that make this not feel like the sum of
its parts um and it just feels like by the time they had built the lego bricks that would become the shadowlands lego set it together and if you were following the
shadowlands beta that's basically it's pretty obvious that's what happened have all these great individual components like torquast and quick and not be ready that can't happen to patch 9.1 so i am
with you i am absolutely like even if 9.1 is a month and that month is not at all spent on content and it's just spent on like ensuring the implementation is bug free
and rock solid uh and all that stuff that's 100 what the game needs got to give a little bit of a little bit of a glimpse into my head and this this is why i constantly think that
shadowlands is so much more than it ended up being put together i keep thinking about the amount of time i spent in the maw that i actually kind of enjoyed and that was basically me going around and
not i wasn't super enjoying the experience of it all but i was looking at handy notes i was like man all of this stuff is cool why am i running around this barren wasteland doing it because an add-on
framework for actually exploring all of that kind kind of suffered a little bit of that mechagon but they did have a little bit maw had had more guidance as to where the rares are who they were what
was going on with them even just like pop-up quests when you go yeah if there was a if there was a framework for doing that framework for doing that instead of it being systemized uh
content if it had been framed correctly even with just a little have come together to mean so much more than yeah it feels like all these devs spent so much time making these little
dioramas these little vignettes these little uh you know and they put all their love and their stuff into those things but it's like that i'd say in the way that the developer
because they're just there to get some stygia to grind up sockets and by the anyway because they're doing this so therefore it doesn't make sense which is a very different thing from say the
right where if you were an endgame character you did not need to go to the unless you just wanted some of the you know maybe some stuff for your your alts but you didn't really need to be there yet it was still a
pretty damn successful thing so sure yeah no it's it's interesting stuff um going back to going back to this you know it was funny so my experience of classic it was very brief sadly
um and you know it wasn't intended to be like that my plan was to in their guild and you know dressing everybody right preach con people great great community lots of fun um
we both got to like level 13. yes right i remember me and you we were in a party too i was a hunter you were a druid we had a just an awesome experience
stuff people saying oh yeah it's so much more meaningful we're like oh yeah it kind of is certainly felt it yeah certainly felt it like even i remember doing some very basic gold making and
just having this incredible realization that i felt like it mattered then real life happened and real life had to go and happen didn't it because we're a busy bunch we have channels to run at the news channel to
it's that sort of thing i mean even for say the lore content that the likes of and you know jared on our team noble you know from a writing perspective the way that say
me jared and noble uh could warcraft is actually on chronicle and wow pedia and blizzard books and things like that that's how we're engaging in the
experience of world of warcraft because like sometimes it's where i'm envious of getting to play world of warcraft that much um where you know for me it's like well i have got to get this lore video done
if i don't get it written by this date and recorded by that date then our editors won't have anything to do oh oh and that just got in the way of wild classics so much so for me this feels like
it feels like the next jumping in point and there's actually a way where i may be more interested in in tbc than classic personal reasons but it's like some of the gearing and the progression of the
codified and the design of the raids is just that design is just a little bit more carried forward your welfare epic so you can get your you know your your batman shoulders uh
and all that stuff if i was not doing so much work stuff i would love to jump into a tbc classic sized time sink so you know i think i am going to make a
new character whenever this date comes up you know make a draenei i'm the one person apparently who doesn't hate the draenei starting zones so that could be pretty neat yeah and the one person who both doesn't
hate the draenei starting zone and also doesn't hate hellfire peninsula impossible impossible yeah i also went to borean tundra first
tundra had an awesome beginning it's just when you end up going you know stuff yeah it's a bit less fun and hey you got thesarian and the lich
borean tundra borean tundra uh the boring tundra
there but because all the thesarian stuff and the callaway or some of the catalog stuff happens where the landscape turns from the kind of tundra
scourge village grass plain stuff when it turns into snow i'm just like this is dragon blight now even though it's like half the zone but this is dragon blood yeah so it's it's a funny situation and i also think
for me there is there's just something about the progression of tbc that would kind of click with me like i'm that sort of player where the goals that i would set for myself
system of tbc anyway yes and i would find taking my which is what i missed out on when i first went there like i did normal you know i did non-heroic dungeons and like karazhan twice
so my tbc experience is just so so like as a total noob in wonder of this big bizarre world i was in actually
engage with that in the way that a player who is maybe a few years older than me at that time would that is so exciting i yeah probably won't have the time i would love to though yeah no i
personally i would love to i would love to print out that achievement chart on my desk use it as a mouse mat i just take things thing that actually it's the thing that changed between
legion and now involved it's like annoyed me the a lack of like little to-do list things not not necessarily because productivity or anything but it's just oh here's a unique thing i can go and do
that kind of a treatment journey feels a lot like that also there are two experiences i would love to relive well one reliv which is to
form and i remember i i don't know how i but i just remember sitting at the family computer sitting with a terrible uh like 15 quid microsoft mouse and keyboard oh yes
looking at the oh that was the i think it was a 15 inch tft monitor back when they were called tfts and just just turning into flight form and sitting on top one of the mushrooms it's like this is it that's it and i
need that stuff from the dungeon the staff you never know yeah yeah i know i farmed heroic slave pens i think day the game yeah it i think it's that sort of thing
it's a lot of actually what asthma gold says uh because i sure he like went super into classic and then i think like sort of had like some but i think he just got like a little bit burned out by doing the whole
said is like look those days have passed you're never going to get them back and like i think i think zach's like a few years older than us not too many more yeah and but certainly
enough that whenever you know he was you know asman gold was asman golding tbc back when tbc was tbc you know he had that big experience in classic uh there are those of us who had like we are little little snippets of
dbc little snippets of classic so for a player like maybe you and me and we're now like way way more wow i don't know wow intelligent players uh night stalker says he was born in 1990
yeah so he's four years older than me uh you know for players like us i think there's actually a a unique power here where we gotta our toes dipped
great and we have a little bit of nostalgia there but the actual full experience we never got and that means that there is still a big fun new to us world of warcraft
experience to have now i know that i am now i know that i am totally okay with slower class gameplay because you know for me it's like i really enjoy combat and valheim
is great it's because i'm doing meaningful goals via the combat system level 13 barely any mechanics i was enjoying and most of the combat i mean when we got stuck
in the the harpies in the north of the barons of course that was before we were in there in that harpy pit getting our asses handed to us nail-biting totally different to any of playing in
shadow lands in the maw and the most dangerous part of the jailer's home no i more thrills fighting for harpies and wow classics so i'm totally fine with that type of gameplay auto attacking as a bear druid uh and
auto attacking as a bear druid uh and trying not to pull a single second harpy trying not to pull a single second harpy was so much fun i'm actually really annoyed remembering it because it's like i wasn't doing anything
it's like i wasn't doing anything i was just watching the bear go yeah that was it yeah but while you were watching you're about to do that you're oh dear in that situation where it's like oh there's there's seven seconds
and i'm estimating i've got six seconds of health left and that's just the type of of thing that can only really happen with a combat system as slow and boring as as those old ones i
so there's a bit of me that actually wonders for players who would play the game the way that we would you know could it actually be especially because we're we have a guild
five-man group together we can do that with good players who are good fun to play with it almost gets to the stage where classic tbc i could see myself
i could see myself having more fun in classic tbc group of people are the people that i'm playing with
and i think the reason why is that for me stuff like grinding up all that anima to get the cosmetics and you know it's for me right now but if i look here it's like there's
character left right and center on the whole thing's just this great big journey so as somebody who has not experienced those tbc dungeons in context and most of the raids
in context to me it just seems like that's a massive amount of content it seems pretty damn decent i mean i'm sure i've not watched both of preachers you know as big ranking all of the wow raids i know
the worst that's no surprise but i you know i know the tbc raids are not all perfect uh far from it probably but yeah i could actually see myself enjoying that more and if i think about why it's like
enjoy that form of rating for similar reasons to why i enjoy the current form of rating so that's that um dungeons that's that um dungeons i like cataclysm heroics and
while i respect the mythic plus system i can totally see how a theory crafter is going to look at m plus and be like whoa teeth into
that's slow and hard instead of you know the difficulty as possible so i think this gameplay styling of those tvc dungeons actually really appeals to me so it's an
interesting situation i say that sort of knowing there's a that real because time is really hard and the thing about the modern wow is
character roughly in a state where i can do heroic to get curve and i guess hope that 9.1 has got content outside of raid locking that i so you know it's an interesting situation i mean i'm sure you could take
a lot of what i just said out of context and use that to attack the modern game i don't mean it like that this is like a purely personal thing here screaming reject modernity embrace tradition
very different games sometimes you want one sometimes not the other yeah yeah it's like the the version of me who would enjoy destiny progression but want to play fast world of warcraft
that's what shadowlands is the version of me that wants to play an mmorpg i think there are older iterations of world of warcraft includes mists of pandaria and wrath of the lich king that i think
what i would want from the game for sure so interesting many identities so many people yeah i think that's i think that's the problem with it it's the world
seem to do everything right they can do a lot of things right but by doing those things right they do a lot of things wrong one will play yeah so they kind of have to
they have they're damned if they do down if you don't and they're just kind of what they want to do which is you know entirely fair they and i think if we if we keep in mind and treat them like
creative product i think they'll probably be happier for it and maybe make a better one yeah hopefully i you know i'm now as as i'm i'm beginning to think and these sort of things are forming in my head
i'm beginning to think that for me the ideal situation ideal situation would almost be classic plus that is world of warcraft
world of being the primary of course i would rather have classic plus that was just 100 this is the world of warcraft this is about the world we're going to make it more a little bit more sandboxy you know a little bit more
support that old school role playing things like that i'd almost rather have that and then modern wow just deciding what it is and maybe just double down on that and have
a more honed in identity uh because at least that way that quite fun just you know i think we've done doing a
mythic plus seven sanguine deaths when we were a bit under geared experience doing siren athletes really fun gameplay driven experience but there is that world of bit
that i don't really feel like i can engage in that much of you know the gating of renown the lack of reputations those things that happened when we really moved from mop to wad and then wad to legion and
sort of on the way so i'd almost rather modern well just decided nah [ __ ] it we 100 let's just double down on that identity and then perhaps a classic plus that could really be focusing on the world of
could really be focusing on the world of because when i see a lot of wow classic and tbc to me i'm not really thinking about the gameplay i'm thinking about the world of warcraft and the mmorpg
sort of bit so it's interesting the multiple identities of wow yeah maybe ah i don't see a world where it happening but it's a case where just take take the game take a chisel bang in the middle
of thing that's like obviously not but like at a really super basic level that's kind of how that's how the dichotomy of classic and modern woe seem to be shaping up and it seems to
work very well so i think the further the further that yeah it's like classic plus is obviously a way to do that i'd be interested to see uh i really wish we had like the two
subgraphs for for both so we could overlay because i could imagine like when especially wrath comes i could imagine modern woe losing a lot of players that
are just like nah it's my time this is it i'm i'm in world of warcraft i want this one i'm going to play i just imagine them basically swapping on the graph yeah exactly then
and that's like maybe maybe that's the way forward is to instead of having made up number 10 million subscribers in one game let's have five on both or seven above
be willing to put you know active development resources classic plus it's like who knows i think it's a no-brainer biz wise um a lot of people i've talked
to think the same so i mean i i'd say i'd hope they would do that i can't i mean i doubt it you know don't have too many hopes that's not actually what i mean but yeah if i hype everybody up for
go i'm just going to be creating disappointment i guess so i don't want to do that too much so i mean that's basically that's basically it for for the news there's
not a whole bunch else to talk about it was a relatively slow week now there were some other minor things you know uh one thing we could talk wind walkers you know there's uh yes we have we have i actually had this
too aggro this is the uh what's up here this is bugwalker.io which is uh someone made a bug tracker i believe it was initially intended to take the piss but just a bug
windwalker because they have so many that'll last for so long let's see so if we yeah i can filter that there we go i think we can filter at the top to to wind walker oh no that's just severity
yeah okay so there's wind walker there's 21 bugs of which survived i think they removed another one but other speed effects that's cool let's look at the worst
actually okay here we go roll or whirling dragon punch as knock effects happen uh will sometimes cause roll to cease working until you reload or timeout
working until you reload or timeout yep uh imagine okay i don't know if this is new to 99.0.5 i believe it is but could you imagine because we had a monk tank for our donations kill and
were vital for that boss's positioning to be correct imagine if the window's frozen is it okay yeah our window is frozen on valor
our window is frozen on valor how long has it been frozen on valor for uh technical difficulties i see yeah must be technical difficulties coming up
hmm that's pretty banter so is the screen shirt no we're not frozen screen share is yeah so it's they can you can see in that camera what we're actually looking at yeah i don't know maybe we'll just swap
that for now it'll do that's it zoom in drag it really big yeah so oh it's uh if you if you want to follow along at home it's bug walker dot io
io that is uh uh bug tracker for all the nightmare stuff that happened into monks at the minute i mean some of it is uh i was checking this earlier before
yet so it's not all bad but it's a case for if you get knocked back during roll or whirling dragon punch whirling dragon punch rule stops working that's just a bug
there's one here that says celestial brew sometimes doesn't absorb damage brew sometimes doesn't absorb damage but i'm pretty sure that one uh yeah so that was actually from an old bfa bug with an azerite treat so that's not
yeah that's not too bad but i think like another part of this and i need to check the most recent rankings on on raider io which i guess we can't really do because our screen share has decided to just be
stuck so that's very bizarre but uh screw that and oh god what was i gonna i've totally forgot epic oh yeah bugs yes they had loads of bugs that actually gave them
bugs that actually gave them more dps yep yep and those bugs were earth fire bugs that are fixed the better they can just have the unfortunate side effect of their damage goes down nothing
else uh replaces that that's an issue for them have been destroyed since since it was added in 5.2 i think and removed so they're kind of juggling bugs in a sense
but there's also oh what was the one i was reading about earlier the new talent dance of tg the one that gives him the for wind walker specifically that gives him the free proc spinning crane kick
ah that is supposed to increase damage by 200 of spinning crank kick it's just flat damage instead which means it doesn't scale with gear in any capacity
while because it was like so similar but as soon as gary's like should i thought yeah they've reported the bug but i guess whatever's going on with this nightmare class it just
it just doesn't work yeah it it's so weird like i always thought that that when walker had such potential close and it's just never really gotten enough love
perspective and you look at you know the the amount of players that you know the class populations yeah and i'm pretty sure monk is consistently
i would imagine very different once again like mythic plus communities where you know you want your brew or your brewmasters and stuff uh but i know population for ages yeah i think it's a combination of
factors where they're the least fitting to the overall worker fantasy because they were so significantly focused on the stuff whereas dks are a little bit more active
because everyone obviously loves arthas everyone knows what a dk is people don't know brewmasters very well unless they did the founding of durotar for a while but just between bugs interesting
sometimes doesn't they're kind of uh they're kind of left out of it even with their mystic touch which is extremely useful honestly a lot of people are going to
for the next expansion that they want a new class yeah and because we've not had one since since legion and a lot of people expect expansions we get a new class something
got a classic two expansions later you got your your dk two expansions there's you got your monk uh two expansions later oh we got the you know the demon hunter okay cool and two expansions later oh where's the new
one uh to me it kind of feels like um patch but can can you do that and not bite off more than you can chew
know okay some of those aren't real but in a world where like the launch monk exists and monks have had the bugs that monks have had for so long fel rush uh i think less now than they've
significantly fixed that senseless yeah it is it is much less likely to die dc or lose access to your character for a couple hours whenever you're playing it even okay i mean even as a hunter i've had dc's
on uh doing mister actions during this expansion disengages but it's so that's movement-based class bugs but broken for so long and where i don't know guardian druids are still
sorry guardians it's like just in a world where those class issues exist i'm kind of thinking uh we need to shore up the current things would it be too much we've got another class that said if
if they do go and tell us they're doing a new hero class i'm i would be excited for that oh i'd i'd be i'd be over the moon if they can get something that's like new and fresh because demon hunter
simplest basic design is whenever it was packed full of legendaries in legion and artifact traits and then whenever like now actually a little bit more so when it in maybe
tools and toys to play with now that i actually think that compared to bfa especially it is significantly more interesting so if they could do something they can do a new class and not make it as boring as
demon hunter kind of is sometimes and not give it only two specs which i think is makes sense but feels a bit uh budget monk where they go this is unequivocally the best class in
the game but it never works sorry yeah i guess i'd wonder like what could they do in terms of a new hero class cause like people have been talking about blademaster as an example but
yeah i mean it could be an arms warrior that's got more of like a sort of samurai like uh vibe inspiration kind of like some of the blade master orcs but i don't know i
like i guess you could sort of make some sort of like you're you're you're sort of hand-held martial
i mean you do have a big old bonkin stick as a brewmaster but it is you know sort of mostly hand to hand as the vibe yes right so you know you could get some sort of like i don't know a katana wielding
class uh you know i think maybe of um at least in a bunch of like chinese action movies and stuff arm-based things so you know could you have a class that
maybe it's three specs like one of them is is ninja and it's like actually full ninja uh you know the other one is like a big almost dynasty warriors feeling kind of vibe your other one is like
a katana so it's like very you know arms warrior is like a big medieval knight maybe feels like uh you know like a samurai or something so though i brought it up to say that it
blademaster work um what else is there though there's bard bard would be an interesting one but the the support angle of that is
so interesting it's like i don't think they ever want to play around with it just because it feels like such a step out of out of the ordinary like such an experiment for them to run with like even power
people are up in arms of power infusion i mean to be fair it's huge i mean to be fair it's huge and it it's just it's poisoning so many conversations and then fed guardians now that they've added they've helped that
out it's not okay priests are now significantly more supportive problems that kind of don't really like if if they go for a support class that feels meaningful in all situations
it needs to have big support yeah which is going to run into problems whenever you can you know your best your the best player in your group is a wind walker monk they've had some bugs fixed they've got
you give them 30 extra damage from a from a like a you're getting whatever you're giving fake guardians you've got you've got two birds in there cycling it's a kind of thing that would be super interesting but i think it is too many
it does too much damage to the meta i think yeah even though it would be really really cool and i love playing a barden ff-14 yeah well kevin chat actually says not kevin uh it's
has been struggling with the bard for a long time so bard's been struggling as a bard bard because it starts off as the archer class it's mostly focused on
class it's mostly focused on the archer play are very weak their their support nature of them is oh i feel like i'm helping out a little bit by giving this but it's not
it's not a massive deal it's not really game-changing enough i believe that you would want to take one over a better performing class yeah and then stuff like the one of the big problems i believe
minute is it it has a single target buff to it basically it picks a partner and my partner in melee they'll give each other bonus damage but that's implemented in a really weird
way and then dancer gives a single target extra damage and that's kind of busted as well so it's like in an mmo scenario where meta game is important you have all of these problems with giving
other players more juice to play with that you kind of have to be super delicate with or just i mean you've got two options you can either make the game balanced or try to make it balance or you can go
you can have like every class gets retribution or thing with matas where you know wow players will be incredibly sucking all of the fun and ruining the enjoyment of world of warcraft
but sort of because they're incentivized to do so by the game mechanics so it is take it into account when you're doing new classes one thing i actually would like to do is go through guild wars 2's classes
i bring it up is because they're really thematically kind of kind of cool and different i guess um and how they like style like their majors and just a mage um
inspirations there and there's a very obvious one that world of warcraft could just take as a new class so like what they've got is you know they've got uh mesmer and a mesmer is kind of like all you
know illusion magic it's kind of dr strange stuff actually doesn't do it doesn't really have illusion magic as a a class does yeah you've got mages with the mirror image and invisibility that's
the mesmer and guild wars 2 you could probably get some inspirations from uh the other ones i mean you've got guardian and ranger i mean yeah we get it uh necromancer you know there's a lot of people who
uh you know would like that with the undead theme but dk kind of covers that yeah or demo kind of covers that um there's warrior boring warrior uh elementalist is like their
a shaman that's kind of neat uh they've got thief you know it's like they're rogue they've got what we'll i think desperately desperately needs yeah so
is doing and i've played an engineer to like level 30 or 40 in guild wars 2. ages ago mind you um but yeah the engineer like you can place turrets darts will do
you know you can do quite a quite a lot of really cool stuff class in world of warcraft engineer something really good fit then there are other classes the
revenant which is again it's like i like the way they've got you know revenant elementalist mesmer it's like they're kind of these real cool different angles on existing classes so there may be a
way that blizzard could do that and actually have it work i mean guild guardian and you know and a warrior and i don't and you know and a warrior and i don't really think they have that like sort of
wow does yeah but like they're still able to do like make them feel different so i'd wonder what blizzard could do like adding in a new hero class to the game i think that i think the two the two
things that come to mind that i see people talk about the most that are like actually could be solid ideas would be the time based mage as a healer bit awkward in some ways but
does is all mages do is alter time and time warp there's so much more that can be done with that idea as a whole focused on the bronze
here's a load of bronze infinite here's you know chromie's a major character this expansion so she trained up a bunch of images to be time-based images obviously that falls under our
game but you know super focused on accelerating like existing dots on a target or you know something along those lines you know reversals things like that and the other one
is just remembered one more that'll get into first tank shaman based on earth because i know my friend dickey would absolutely crazy if he was allowed to play tank as a shaman he's been talking about it
tried he i believe it was in was an old war he tanked the boss shaman god knows how he managed it but yeah but he did so i think like an earth-based
additional specs as opposed to classes but you can see how they could be like kind of brought into it all but i think the major one is the tinker the engineer because it just playing a gnome tinker that drops you know you could you
could go the full uh oh my god what's his name the king uh oh my god what's his name the king the king of uh the king of the gnomes oh macintosh not guitar not guitar i cut i just thought i was thinking mecca
mechanomechanium no he's not but megatorque i think you could go full a suit does that you could go that route or you could go the throw down a bunch of like
totem turrets or explosives all that kind of stuff a bit of overlap that fits super well in world of warcraft already that i imagine they said hundreds of discussions about it internally
for that because that would be sick yeah almost almost certainly and i think that's our segment of potential new classes for world warcraft speaking of segments time for another one it is time for
you control the show via your super chats and while we were doing the news we got many super chats a big thank you to everybody and that means there are things to talk about so
we've got one from david granger there's one of quite a few thank you david that is imagine if chromie had a mission to travel with her work old world uh content or instance and
have to quest through to escape which i really bring that super chat up to just say that there's a potential for chromie to be used to do whatever the hell blizzard wants
yeah uh now what what david said there is basically a caverns of time dungeon homie drops you into a scenario so solo caverns of time scenarios that could be especially in a world where maybe we want some cool things to collect some
hard content to do in a solo fashion revisit cool events from the wow novels chronicle that could be extremely cool and because you could do it using old assets doesn't
busted house from vanilla it makes sense in context in context so i would really then expand so i would really then expand that to basically just say
the concept the idea not the black morass not the black not the black morass no we have time walking i've time walked too much black morass and maybe that would be a low point of me returning to
play dbc classic but just the idea that the caverns of time the 15th anniversary event and while it was very frustrating to deal with um the defile mechanic after you know
um the defile mechanic after you know oh dance and defile they're just stupid and they can't listen what people say in chat there but it was a fun event and the cameras of time is awesome
uh you know i think so many of us remember like picking up world of in in a shop when we got our games physically we had to go outside together video games pretty insane i got mine in argos
the shop with it in my hand yeah i got mine and uh got mine in game you looked at the back of tbc and one of and it almost immediately seemed like
the coolest thing ever uh and you know people love the wow lore right like it's so much of what we do in the channel it's big stuff though outlaw caverns of time is just the perfect opportunity for blizzard to
from modern events in the game revisit and do cool things you know we could just have the b plot of the next while or maybe the c you know something where chromie's just like hey the timelines
or the time streams are getting really weird again so i've got this stuff for you know every once in a while and maybe that could lead up to some crazy you know the old gods and the infinites all come back and it's craziness again
time is is like sitting there that we could go back that have happened in the real-time strategy games and all of that stuff i mean warcraft 2 beyond the dark portal
if we can you know if we could get uh if we could get some some content in the caverns of time that actually tells like illyrian charlie's journey and expands on that especially
torellian characterized for the upcoming legends all you got to do is give us like half an hour with him in a scenario and then a dungeon with a have him fight etcetera that would be okay
dragons are trying to mess up elirian turalyon and the the drama there is they're trying to mess up turalyon why
the void whispers to illyria like she could be its ally them up you can have some really intriguing plot lines there and via following those two characters you get warcraft 2
you get beyond the dark portal i mean even just things like you know we've era of the warcraft movie of course played out differently in war one but you know yeah go uh go into the first karazhan to
kill medivh with lane and go oh please yes i love that book so much man that is that is how to make some money blizz money blizz totally so yeah um
caverns of time let's go chromie's already half saved world of warcraft let's get her to do it again um so next super chat comes from thomas who says lord question do you think the night elves will get
some refuge can i speak we'll do that one again from lore question do you think the night elves will get some retribution for or will they remain the wow underdogs and constantly be bullied by the horde
i actually think pretty simple they're going to get a big reckoning i i have a slight suspicion that it's going to be in the form of some crazy cinematic that happens at the end of the raid because we know that tyrande
won't have seen this unless you're a knight faye knight faye but we quest a little bit with um i was just uh lady shubo chandras shandris yes sandra's featherman
chandra sweaterman we quest with sandra chandras and uh you know like ah you saved the night elf people i'm going to go kill sylvanas and she you know zoops away you know
running at this preposterous speed um so she's often torgast in the sanctum of domination here the sanctum of domination is you know it's the jailer's pad right
so that's where she's headed that's where we're headed get their vengeance um you know i do wonder the does that fall of night her face will be revealed like you could very much say that that's
i mean the fall of night as you literally in the cinematic see the roll over as sylvanas starts your plan to capture all the people tyrande uh yeah but or you know even when the
will fall away like could that actually be toronto's arrow finding its mark on sylvanas i mean who the hell knows basically uh point is there's gonna be humongous night elf business in this next patch
uh based on the narrative that's been set up so far at least i think so anyway the perfect situation to yep we've got the perfect situation anduin left on bad terms yeah last time they
anduin's almost starting over there sylvanas is obviously going to be there we're going to fight her tyrande is probably there so we will we i think we will have in one big uh either
triumphant or calamitous moment for each of these characters we will see i don't think all of them will be resolved but i think a significant amount of the sylvanas and tyrande stuff will be completely crossed off with that
eldest be here here's what's happening be that be that tyrande killing sylvanas or finding it in her heart after the night warrior part leaves her for a second to forgive her
happy but you know yeah yeah um it's going to be interesting i think they'll they'll fix up the character arc with those characters
they've already fixed up the you know the fate of the night elves who've died integrated into the forest and the ecology of the place the next thing they need to do though is the fate of the night elves and
of the interviews or q a's from from blizzcon um you know just that a new night elf home and they basically said well them their tree back and reset the plot line right because i
was practicing night elves but at the same rate i don't think the night elves can just be vagrants you know bunking up with uh think the night elves do need a future as a people and i think
where blizzard needs to remember that it's very good to step back from telling small character stories and to tell character stories and to tell large epic arcs you know the story of a
because i think that's the sort of story that makes you feel like you're living in a world and not just i mean not just like
cinematic in youtube that contextualizes the art assets of the esport you're playing yeah which is at its worst how wow can feel sometimes yeah i think i think i have a vague idea of where they're going to go with it
just because i sort of all the all the lines came together lines came together in my head because teldrassil's gone the night elves are all dancing about i was trying to think of other world trees
obviously up in nor up in northrendogo uh that where elginoth or first found the roots oh where yog uh down in ungoro is probably a no-go because it's in on guru
remember where the other actual world tree is but just gilness that's it makes sense for them yeah so they'll just rebuild this and the worgen will
finally pay back their debt and everyone's like okay then it won't be just it won't just literally be hello we've restored gilneas to how it was like in the invasion scenario and dotted night of npcs
they've got enough force around there especially when they come to the kind of taking back because i mean guness go up north silver pine with uh forsaken without their the under city
that area could be a lot could and end up being the ultimate home i think that's most of my reasoning is it would work and it would cross off a lot on the list of things to resolve ah
meeting a bow i also don't want it to happen like that to live in kalimdor same that's their home they've got to live in calm door i don't know if it means they build a big new city in ashenvale or
obvious that teldrassil is screwed and this whole planting new world trees dead end yeah i mean if they need something yeah trying to grow trees around the place as well of attorney waters maybe you
shouldn't be doing that yeah yeah i mean this all kind of comes into what my my personal if i could like have one and i would like the next expansion to just be i mean
i don't know world of warcraft peoples of azeroth is a very boring dry name so we couldn't go for that but my actual personal ideal for that would be an expansion that would you know what would it even
take us to level 60 or is this the expansion where we'd actually uh kill leveling at cap and move to a new system where every new zone is a suramar brief uh i think that's a different
for sure but in my head what's ideal is world of warcraft peoples of azeroth was something where basically it's this situation where we've saved azeroth from death the cataclysm was over a decade ago
the cataclysm was over a decade ago it is now time for an expansion that villains in the way that you know vanilla had its villains but they were just sort of dotted about the place and natural in the world i would like to see
the day uh you know as connell actually corrected us on there are eight studios that work in call of duty 8 studios that's a lot uh so i mean money ain't a problem for
activision blizzard the most valuable stock in gaming by quite some margin you know it's no issue for him i would you know it's no issue for him i would like to see
a revamp a revamp of azeroth and not a revamp that is based on a big and not a revamp that is based on a big cataclysmic event such as the cataclysm no because that aged instantly when the cataclysm was no longer relevant
cataclysm business i'm so confused ah and then we need chromie to come in and fix it all what i would like to see because you it is i'd actually just like to see you know
every zones brought up to what it is in the world of warcraft you know every zone is what you actually see at max level is version of that zone you know i want to see how has westfall developed how was
have all these places develop based on what's happened to them and is there some way we could you know actually just get a full dungeons and our pvp but then also just have the entire focus
world um that's what i'd like that's a big tangent though but it is what i'd like it's a big tangent and a very very big difficult to actually implement and probably a hard
to do it so you called it world of warcraft you're thinking both too big and too small at the same time you just call it world of warcraft oh yeah world warcraft 2 would be that
no well feeling yeah just just just say this is this this next product's called world of warcraft everyone's confused everyone's confused no one knows how it works all the pr stuff is wrecked and destroyed
but it doesn't matter because everyone like people will be like what's this world of warcraft all right yeah it's like apple being like hey the successor to the ipad 3 is called ipad yeah everyone's confused yeah and
that sets us up for world of warcraft azeroth where we have a renewed planet after that yeah i actually just want that hole i death and then i just want to reset and i
you know what blizzard tried to do with miss pandaria was take us to this slower more thoughtful journey that was full of world building and a rich history and a lived world i miss it and i feel
like since then you know we we've moved from that to uh you know a bit more michael bay you know things are shorter they are more expensive feeling or looking you know with their big cinematics and stuff
um but sometimes you know it feels like an episode of eastenders warcraft anymore this is the story of a small cast of
so what i'd really like to see is an expansion that is you know varying rain was just a dude who was missing for you know you know bolvario is just the region you know you go and talk to him from time to
saying for thrall you know thrall was not an active dude in vanilla and i actually think that's good yeah he was too busy you know being the political leader of the entire hoard trying to solve all the paperwork for
all the problems yeah as we were out boots on the ground actually killing thrall's sitting there thinking about you know taxation potholes sewage system of orgrimmar i don't want to think about that that's
got to do yeah i'd love something like that um so moving on then moving on another question from david who would soul binds be if you took your soul bite into tour gas as a compatriot
by enjoying through trials together i'm going to say is um you know i'm not tour gas context but i think the idea of you know your you can go into the world and do stuff with
think what this shadowlands soulbind system really would have needed to have actually been experientially successful and live up to the name of soulbind i mean soulbind
that's more hardcore than marriage you know marriage is you know yeah you got you know you set up your stuff and you're married but soulbind god damn that's big implications for binding our souls
binding our souls um but why do i feel less connected to my soul bind than i did to some of my champions for my garrison mission table in in warlords of draenor where you know in
i got to go and do a little quest line with those characters and i could bring bodyguard characters i could bring them out in the world with me they'd actually be useful in that world abilities yeah depressed
answer there is time and budget constraints because i it would tie a lot of the problems i think you have with shadowlands with a you know the reps so imagine this
instead of or maybe in addition to venari you have your three soul bands chilling out after you unlock them with them do whatever content that's solo upgrade
rep of them slowly but surely and then they have unique quests because most about them remember when you actually sold buying for the first time and it was like oh this is a big process it's a big process
whoa you've lived such a life you've been in that's like you've saved the world a million times you've killed gods that's such a life and your character's like
i don't know what any of my soul bands have done i've heard a little bit here well obviously there's dialogue from pelagos there's quest from them but it's like i my character canonically
everything that all of these characters have been through in their entire life and i don't know any of it so if it if i could go on a quest with them at from their life so i understand what's happening then
i need to spend time in them i need to i need to know i that my character sold onto them that's i guess like the important part there so if i was to transform this into a like a feature request or just to
say something i'd like to see maybe in patch 9.2 but a system where each soul bind has you know got from okay neutral to exalted doesn't make sense with someone you soul bound with this the same thing that basically
could be different for each soul bind and whatever bind in character um and you'll give us a way to actually go and quest with these guys you know bring him out in the world with us and
characters we care about because right now it ain't going to happen so no i think that's that one moving on then could be convinced to let us earn domination
to raid zoval's vault like troves of the thunder king thoughts and opinions in this maybe for robbing the brokers robbing the brokers to which i say i think that if you said
would that be a cool fun thing to just about any developer in blizzard they would say yes i think that would be a cool fun thing trove of the thunder king was really really cool this is all great
going to come up so yeah well i'll say that is you know troll the thunder king was at its time one of the most interesting creative it was something totally new we hadn't seen that before
and that was in the same patch that gave us green fire i mean creativity was sparking can you believe that that patch gave us island that you advance through over time
big raid one at the time one of the best we'd seen such a great raid the isle of giants with all of its isle of giant stuff and dasta and also the trove and also
the storyline with all of those scenarios my god they made so much and also one more thing the [Music] thunder forged lightning forged lightning the lightning stealing that's
the entire blacksmithing system from that patch island and unlock the forge to get it started was just really cool how did they make all that content they uh had a lot of developers and
time i think but matt they've got more developers now than they did then i don't want to answer that question because it's not a very nice answer version of the answer is they may be paralyzed in content
creation and decision making from higher level parts of the organization that's that's a good diplomatic answer yes david to answer your question uh the likes of trophy thunderking i would
absolutely awesome let's do it absolutely great but it is almost there's no way it could happen because it's not being announced they would not have time to make a scratch i think so moving on to our next question which
also comes from david i love mythic plus i love time walking vanilla mythic plus dungeons imagine blackrock depths scaled with affixes to compensate for the mechanics of old world
no you know i can totally see why somebody would like to do that somebody would like to do that yeah and it actually could be that what's really there is a desire for a bit more difficulty and challenge
uh and menace from that content and i think that's just the sort of thing where time walking doesn't really give you that much yeah it's a case where time walking is designed as
dungeons as the like touristy kind of mode or a as opposed to an actual part of the experience i feel like uh there is no way well without a lot of their dungeon designers and balance
oh with affixes it's never going to happen it would take get that sorted so i don't think it's likely but the idea of hello
likely but the idea of hello this system is good uh this i like doing a difficulty can i do the old stuff because will be again just having that little can we have a we
have a new like can we just have a mythic version of it maybe something yeah a mythic zero time walking i think that would be cool that's i think that's basically the solution there kind of okay cool
all based on scaling anyway let's just get the number go bonus mechanics in there if you're feeling really spicy yeah um so there's that now next up we have a question from martin who says
all voter led to is now people ask for ilvl 200 and raider io checks in casuals to put it mildly yeah i mean i do not play in pugs for a very good reason uh you know i've always taken the view that my time
the world to be sitting there getting you know pugs in a falls part halfway through you know it's just something that's interesting to me um and you know i remember i think it was
i was like maybe in legion he did his you know it was almost like a secret where you know he made a character and after every video on that character he wouldn't know who it was and that was basically just mike's
having to park world of warcraft and it yeah it's interesting because i i remember that well because i did did by quinceance around the same time i was
doing it on a aflock i think he i think he's aflock as well i believe he started that series with the intent of saying the game
prove through skill at this part of the at this point of the game this is at 77.27.3 i think you can just be good and if you're you consistently do the mechanics if you know what you're
doing then you'll get invited to grips you'll have a good time and i think he was like mostly sort of right but i think something broken him that day during that adventure the uh the the
during that adventure the uh the the texture he encountered along the way that was mostly it he just he just didn't he didn't seem the same he's been talking about never like don't pug don't don't play the game and
punks never do it yeah uh i i would just flat out say that if do not recommend playing world of warcraft if you know without a pug yeah i don't i think it is a
i basically think it's a subpar experience in in so many ways experience in in so many ways and that absolutely rule number one or in our guild who uh you know who are new and
they were recruited by our recruiter you know recruiting people they join the guild you know they're a bit quiet and night one right but you know you fast forward four weeks
pretty easy you just have to stick at it because sometimes you can find uh you know pack [ __ ] right like uh so that's it's now going to the actual question i mean yeah it's
it is unfortunate that what is mathematically matter speaking perfectly the best for the best players in the game then you know all those things where it is absolutely what they should be doing for
but there are negative externalities to that that impact the casual players i basically think the two degree it's unavoidable and that ultimately blizzard's goal should be getting people
to play together in groups where they're basically there needs to be a punishment for being bad at the game being a [ __ ]
[ __ ] you have to be able to do a dungeon because that is one of the only things that will actually
give an individual player the various different incentives the game to do research to want to grow because if you are playing with other people and they can see you grow and move up the
damage meter that's all very good and that can't so it's just tricky because the more that you support the pre-made group in a way for blizzard the more like you're enabling people to play now but
actually damaging the health of the game in another way or undermining aspects yeah no i don't i don't know if there's a way out of the fact that as a check but it's the it's a thing where
people are goals oriented in pugs and they they're the goal they're looking for what they're seeking is as fast a complacent because they know i'm guilty of the same if i'm doing if i'm doing like those
four mythic zeros for uh for the weekly quest in my head i'm okay well i want to do like i'll do i'll i'll do four different ones but maybe i'll do like sang with death remember two or three times if i get a
good grip and that's going to be going okay well that's likely to be event there i'll pick that well above 200 item level to wreck this and it's because item level just
translates to my experience is better that way i have no incentive to take someone with lower gear and that's because like there's a social incentive to solve that which is that person finds friends who
are higher geared or the same gear they can do it together on and the other incentive which i absolutely do not hope they ever think about is basically giving you giving you
an incentive in game to boost i hope that's never a thing that'll be a nightmare buttons yeah it's there's there's no solution because uh it's almost like a societal and cultural
problem that's just been uh being i guess expressed through the premier group finder where it is it's all just passing in the night kind of thing yeah that's it's unfortunate but
so to uh to keep everything going with um with control the show you guys control the show which by the way we are going wrap up after uh pretty much after the current uh super chats so because we're
said we'd get uh we we tried to condense the show and viewing experience and oh dear we've now rambled for probably a long time of course but yeah right let's roll so we have got another question
we have got another question from david granger who essentially is you know for a support talent tree for the death knights necromancy and rituals to sort of animate and buff up your team as they
your friends so that if they die they can come back as girls basically really you know cool sort of fantastical flavorful things that uh i think just highlight how
competitive elements is really damn hard because you can almost see the original dk coming out or a vanilla class coming out like what he says but the thing then is if you
a bunch of cool ideas neat interactions blah blah blah but it's like there's so many dead specs that had cool ideas and stuff like that reality and that's the tricky thing where if
action rpg like a diablo stuff yeah if you if you're team building in like something like divinity you can have like if you can mix and match
then you can have all of that weird stuff but in the context of an mmo where everyone's playing competitively it's or people who will play competitively that stuff kind of doesn't work and i'm
i think as long as i live i will be sore about this specific point but i remember feeling a little bit hamstrung as a druid for i think until maybe mists maybe maybe warlords because i felt like i was
hybrid yeah and it's like oh yeah obviously you're going to do less damage because you can all heal and like yeah but that that means a droid's like break glass in case of bad tank where they'll off
because that's not the optimal the optimal way to play the game is what is as much damage as possible yeah having emergency can't actually go anywhere i think that's the
one of the things where the more you add to a class especially when it comes to like someone's dead they come back up they're good for a couple of minutes to do whatever that is so obscenely
that because of the competitive aspect of pve and pvp that now has a lot of actual real money and like riding on it for a lot of people that means you know what i guess the question is would you would
you be happy isn't as an unholy dk to do like five percent less damage than frost if you could make up if you could do an sometimes when you resurrected an ally as a ghoul
that's the kind of trade-off you have to make and in a competitive world that's likely never going to be never going to be worth it yeah yeah so that's that's the design considerations that come in there
question from sweet host who says instead of a new class maybe one to two instead each expansion um that add more class fantasy and you know what i actually agree with this and it's it's the weird thing where
the thing that would make it not seem like the thing to do in my head is a thing of fairness where it's like oh yeah you know this whatever is get a good about that but if there is a good idea and it makes
sense to put it into the game then you could totally see something like yeah i've got a lot of people going to those class those classes and i i mean i i don't know i guess a whole bunch of my like
you know sort of vaguely eastern themed sort of blademaster stuff wouldn't exactly fit into the fantasy of a warrior but i think there's i mean think hard enough about it you'll almost certainly find stuff there i mean you
could even just go for dark ranger as like a hunter new speck that is all like sylvanas sea shadowy kicks and flips and stuff uh you know like a void hunter that could be another one though i mean you could
summer cards there could be a whole bunch you could immediately coming to my head because obviously as a paladin ever since leveling a little bit in mississippi as holy
i'm having a lot of fun just spamming denounce i'm like yeah i would absolutely kill for an inquisitor paladin range dps could do all four but
shock you get something like the nuns you get something like exorcism back so you are actually just you're holding your book open and shouting at someone the kind of thing i think would be super cool and then
you've got time mage you've got an earth like tank shaman there's so many yeah so many i mean screw you in the fellow paladins the last thing you guys need is an actual shark at inspect that's
yes please because you guys got it good uh but broadly speaking i agree give us an inquisitor an earth shaman tank uh yeah i don't know that's cool a survival
uh you can [Laughter] that would be sweet uh so yeah you know i think there's those issues of fairness uh sort of catch and have issues with but i basically think it would be neat
yeah for sure uh so to continue on the super chat uh we've got david again who who says uh thoughts on venary finally trusts us takes her mask off
and she's ethereal and she recruits us into the eternal war with the brokers and uh towards the cosmic war that's going on around the cosmos when vanari finally unmasks and and stuff goes on
and right now we have no idea there because the other brokers don't trust her no she seemingly left her mates for dead in uh
left her mates for dead in uh in tour guest so vanari is spooky um now i don't think venari is an ethereal or anything like that i think canary is decently clear that they are separate groups now that said there's
bloody obvious similarities and those similarities have still not been blizzard and i don't mean that in some pluses you will explain your lore i mean that's a mystery and i want to find out where where it is how it goes
us through that journey for sure so 100 yeah i mean it's hard i wish i could say more about this it's just venary we do not know not the idea of the cosmic war and all of that stuff it's like i'd i'd love
mysterious blasting through the galaxy i really want it to feel like fantasy second i love science fiction you know i'm re-watching stargate sg1 right now
a bit through season five having a blast love battlestar blah blah blah i've love battlestar blah blah blah i've i've got sci-fi cred few if only you lot knew the you know game two yeah that is something
you know is is highly unlikely for them to see for the next two years but i do believe pretty awesome if it was after that fiction i don't want to do any downers in science fiction
but it's like even think about stargate you know they world and in that other world like they religious name for what the stargate is and it doesn't really feel like science
you know i want that feeling of we go through the dark portal and we're in you know we haven't traveled to another planet another solar system that is you seven thousand light years in that direction yeah i don't want it to feel
like that it has to feel like i'm stepping through stargate i don't understand it i'm going to a new weird world uh i just i don't want that cosmology stuff
physics now i can geek out and say whoa what if you know the formation of titans across the universe is actually analogous know the density of of of matter and dark matter in the
know the big bang happens in it i i don't want to do that i you know i think that's cool and interesting i love all that you know stuff but i don't think that's world of warcraft should be so i want to see cosmos absolutely but
it's just got to feel i just can't feel sci-fi to me it has to feel like that just there's something about how they executed on on the burning crusade
and the vibe of going out there yeah i think i think they kind of did similar they did similar okay with argus they went to because obviously the draenei are big crystal spaceships but
at the same time it was still like whoa this is a this was the the magic keystone that illidan stole opened the portal to another world we and killed a big god thing so it's like that that
that had science fiction roots tbc was really good for it i'm thinking purely netherstorm because all that stuff was super sci-fi it was magic crystals it was it very much had like the entire drawing i have
that vibe of this is like this is actually sci-fi but this is like this is actually sci-fi but it's it's almost weird it's almost like the reverse of the saying that magic is just science we don't understand yet
that we don't understand yet but then you know maybe just sit down in magitek it's that stuff i think that's uh yeah so you know takes that's to a very long pit stop on azeroth to please
just give the peoples and the setting of warcraft what it's due before we go off so next question comes in from unknown character 14 who says can we get an updated model of kayla
ghost police to which i say there is just about no that question but yeah kayla goes says dude's looking a bit uh a bit jank a bit low-poly yeah
oh it's very weird when you see him around any other character think what they i think what they what they could do oh well okay dragons i haven't seen them in a while
their air is over but is anyone ever really gone that kind of the dragons will eventually come back in some form they probably will but some form they probably will but isles what's this what what's this
islands of dragons isles is there an island that has a dragon a sort of dragon isles they teased it in bfa now the question was it supposed to be patch 8.3 and did they cut it
they cut it because 8.3 was uh compared to other things rather conspicuous and it's uh make you think uh there is another one uh final super
chat from cw who says original azeroth choose an original zone to settle down in have the local factions provide distinct rewards cosmetics etc
oh man lord please oh man please oh man what i mean isn't that it depends on how far you want to go do i get to settle down and
uh not mordon ah desolace do i get to settle down in testless i to do that but it would be hard to do yeah i think the way you'd probably have to do it is you know find an area of
you know find an area of find an area of those of those old zones that would have space where goldshire or something like that could go
area and whenever you go in there it's like a but you can select which instance of that housing area you're actually going wouldn't be in every zone but yeah if you do that spread it across the zone
and then you use build in more you know rewards more rewards whatever more there things to build out your your house maybe you know add in construction as a secondary profession i know that's
literally the name of construction in an old-school runescape but it's cool so yeah i would love that i am a massive supporter for player housing in the game is pretty simple uh look i know that okay i don't want to speak for
okay i don't want to speak for uh jinji and pilav and i don't know yeah very competitive gameplay focus players i don't put words in their mouth i have a suspicion that they would not be the most interested
be the most interested in that of course a big boon but i think there are so many people who you know they they know place in their in in their life right uh it is a world
i've cared about for a long time now you're going to tell me that oh yeah you can build a house in wild stars pandora know that universe but i think universe where there's 20
years you know there's more than 20 years of content in the warcraft that is one where players would love to have housing simple fact of you know you open wow.tools or wow model
you go into any new patch what do you see you see building blocks you know you see all the different doodads and for just little things you know tables
just little things you know tables fruit bowls and and just the notion that and i could unlock a bit of the night elf kit i don't know why unlocking a same way you build your house and valheim
decorate it the way you want and it's satisfying that people you know a world of people care about enough that that's something that actually would want
would want absolutely 100 i just have one question where would you want your prior house to be oh dear
why is why is my head saying westfall and azura mist what i think is wrong because it has this really nice relaxing ambient music ambient music but but no i i think or stranglethorn
honestly i'd probably try to have multiple houses you know hitting up everything um oh man that stuff would be so good yeah absolutely so i think we do have i don't think i've missed any super chats there
i just want to double check i've not missed any from uh from before crossfaction guilds with sanctuary like a sanctuary guild hall all i can say to that is um yeah
you know blizzard always said and it was one of the defenses of a decision that the blizzard had done that kind of just ticked me off where they said they didn't want to do guild garrisons or you know something
guild halls because they wouldn't want people feeling like they couldn't and they could reinforce some rough social dynamics in the guild my rank is raider all that i expect from
my guild is that assuming i do all of the things that are required for me to hold the rank of raider that i can invite to the raid i have no expectation to change the
to decorate the gills hall or anything like that i mean it would be nice if we that but it was a terrible thing for think because it's implicit when you join a guild that
you don't have control over those things therefore it is okay for the gm and the officers to be the people who buttons to do that at least i can in that situation at
least i could join the guild raid get ahead of the curve go back to my and see oh yeah we've mounted the head of the boss we just killed there there'd be some camaraderie there a gill sanctum is not there for the player
expression but it is there to be a totem to the the guild's shared achievements and that's why i would love something like that why i would love something like that yeah no i absolutely adore in ff14
two of our will guildies also play ff and i joined i hopped into the house and it's a little it's a little club i have no control over it i have no say in it whatsoever and it's just really
nice i like being there they're there i can see their history i can see all the bosses they killed together and i feel like that's an that and then also to get away with me not
having control because there's uh instant rooms so i just go to my room decorate it the way i want so i have a room in their house and you know you can go to other people's rooms see what they look like i think that's a
think that the benefits of what that would do for the benefits of what that would do for guild identity in the long term would vastly outweigh any problems for sure yeah yeah
and just the sort of thing you get content to populate that system for free make new things i mean not literally for free already making kits for new buildings and stuff like that i
think the only difference would be that you know they maybe would have to be and implemented differently from a technical perspective in-game um grant actually just literally asks imagine uh one small house in your
changes to it it's like yeah even something like that would elevate the experience of the pandaria farm and you know even if you into you know maybe it's not player housing maybe you call it homesteads
and you can have one or two of those little features be i'll be really good um to i guess finish us final um
superchats from david um who uh yeah so basically was talking about tbc and uh you know his experience crossing over to hellfire and you know just you know barely made
playing the little event where the yeah and that's really cool and you know i have a similar experience i have a similar experience which is the first time i mean
i went there first but also going into you know howling fjord for the first time and you know you just have this incredible experience you know ride and that boat opens up to the perfect vista
i mean the the level design you know back then the level design didn't feel like level design it felt like living breathing world um i think a little bit of that has been lost as our zones have become more like
think that's a discussion for a different day yes for sure for sure um but yeah you know it was just like even embarrassing tundra and are attacking you know they've got their dragons and stuff you can actually see
overlooking you at the other you know the other side of the fjord yeah um earlier in that boring tundra balance hold or vigil or whatever it was called the australians keep
yeah keep that it's constantly under attack by the nerubians and stuff yeah you know i think that stuff's really cool and i actually think that those cool and i actually think that those are more effective intro experiences
than not the intro experience of world war ii draenor war ii draenor but potentially the intro experience of but potentially the intro experience of both legion actually yeah legion bfa
and this current one uh shadowlands and there's a reason why i say that what was happening in the world and it set the stage pretty clearly in a way where it never yanked control away from my character it
didn't move my camera didn't show me a junkie in game cutscene get their really big lore moments but there's just something about being alliance and you've been thrown into this situation away you go
that i think was very very effective for setting up the world in just such an elegant way that's perhaps more elegant than doing a you know sort of tightly scripted thing so i you know i think there's room for
both um yeah i don't know just the thought yeah it's the kind of case where i think if you if you want the player to feel like a hero they have to perform some heroics
and that was obviously done when you're a soldier and you're like just doing doing small little works but it's a case where i can't remember the last time an event or like a couple of question game made me
feel like i was doing something great in the context of being the mall walker or whatever else it's like the maw is just too much the mo intro experience is too much of like okay here's uh
bolvar's holding my hand for a bit i'm not before uh and then we're getting lower tidbits here and there and it felt it felt oppressive enough but it wasn't naturally oppressive
it almost might have been better if they dropped me in the maw and told me to get without any of that scripted stuff it's just here you go here's these big can't fight yet get there yeah i mean it's that's almost
so many people do this crossing the river and ellen forest and getting eaten yeah you know in dark shore just pretty sweet um there's a question from lars king the ending or you know where does it go
sense to take the wild classic project as far as miss pandaria that will get them many more years of after that the well has ran dry what are they going to do you know i think by
world of warcraft call of duty tier resources and actually have that work or you know you need something like a runescape and speaking of old school runescape we
well who says um do you think wow can get as old as old school runescape a 3d game does get much worse with age in my opinion yeah so you know a 3d game can struggle
with that but i would say that the real thing here is compare everquest 2 to world of warcraft where eq2 art style wise feels a little bit more modern there's not modern one we're
talking about photoreal right and like it and wow came out about the same time but it's like because wow has way more stylization wow just holds up so much better so i actually do think that world of
runescape did i mean they're similarly old games there was the original runescape which is different from osrs you would need old old-school runescape to get the original runescape one not
runescape 2. but yeah wow can go the distance uh even wow classic i think it will just hold up because goddamn it still works now you know yeah i think i think as far as
like class is concerned uh most of the problems i find with old obviously there's a fact that they just won't run yeah because them
enough uh art style-wise like you discussed it yeah it looks perfectly fine going around you still get every all the nice it works perfectly fine but i think one of the major things that stopped people
from going back to very old games especially 3d ones is because oh man from outside of i guess like some extremely good platformers and some absolutely
they basically are anachronistic and how well they play 3d games i mean super mario 64 is one of them there's so many games just are awful to play because we didn't have we didn't have the experience as an
all these design problems worked out and all these very simple things like being compared playing any shooter on the ps2 like with with the controller the problems with literally input is solved world of
warcraft classic feels great to play i actually love playing i love playing because it like from a field perspective because when i hit a button stuff it works it's instant so i think that's that's not a concern for world of
it's just a matter of can they keep people interested content-wise yeah thing so whenever you ask me where my player thinking only in terms of the vanilla zones yeah
if we're to expand that it's halloween fjord some there you go it's howling fjord i love howling fjord it's got the music it's got the the ark the vibe it's exactly what i want so
there you go and i think with that done yep that is the stream now to finish off the stream if you would like to watch some uh would like to watch some uh gaming news well we posted
did do also by the way have uh two other channels there's the game industry news there's some very interesting stories in today's video interesting stories in today's video uh clips valuable eclipse you can access
um i it might be search engine index now not 100 sure about you'll be able to find it better eclipse uh basically these streams you know we take them out we polish them up and they go there so
um phage lives here who says sorry i was late yeah no worries the clips channel's got you covered because um what will happen is you know connell goes in
he gets all of the um he gets all the stuff you know rory does know getting all the stuff to put it up live quick hits of of warcraft content and we have so
other than the audio issues uh very positive uh reactions there i think people seem to quite enjoy you know getting warcraft that are not you know not tied to the expectations of
another thing of course is if you would like to support us and also get some from the art team then you get your bow pin uh it's a bow and arrow pin uh this time around uh for this month as well as
you can check out the patreon and on the patreon nothing to announce right now but suffice to say uh thinking about for the last while and uh yes yes we will we will announce
because the last thing i want to do is um you know sit here and do the big hype man routine thing and you know oh yes my you know my first 100 days plan for the patreon is
and then you know as soon as as soon as everyone gets in i don't do it yeah i mean do that perfectly fine just not at uh not at 11 o'clock at night on cheers so uh yeah there you go that's it
discussions and you know got a good podcast the experience in the clips channel as well as bits from the uh the past streams yes so i think that's it that's us thank you very much for watching
everyone yeah cheers show three we have done it yep we'll see you i'm we'll see you next friday thank you for watching and we will see