[0:20] Let's rewind. Rewind.
[0:26] >> Welcome back, Screen Crush. I'm Ryan
[0:28] Ary, and today we are going to talk
[0:29] about House of the Dragon season 3,
[0:30] episode 1. Did it work? I know a lot of
[0:32] people didn't necessarily like season 2.
[0:34] Got my thoughts on that that we're going
[0:36] to get to in just in just a second. But
[0:38] you got to admit, we had an enormous
[0:40] battle here. A lot of complaints about
[0:42] season two where there weren't enough
[0:43] big battles, and this was the biggest
[0:45] naval battle in Game of Thrones history.
[0:47] And of course, spoiler warnings are
[0:49] ahead for House of the Dragons season 3,
[0:51] episode 1. So, we don't want to mince
[0:53] words or waste time.
[0:58] So, let's bring on our guest. First of
[1:00] all, you know him as the intern we fire
[1:03] at the end of every video, Mr. Cameron
[1:05] Casy. What's going on, Cam? Hey Ryan,
[1:07] how we doing? House of the Dragon
[1:09] season.
[1:10] >> There we Yeah, good so far. I've only
[1:12] seen the one episode, but we'll talk
[1:13] about that in a second. And of course,
[1:15] the writer of our House of the Dragon
[1:16] Easter egg breakdowns, Miss Harriet
[1:18] Lingo, right? Hello, Harriet. How are
[1:19] you
[1:20] >> doing? Really good. [laughter] Happy to
[1:22] have back.
[1:25] >> We're Man, your breakdown was great. And
[1:27] you we have a video coming out like
[1:28] right after this video where you break
[1:30] down all the costumes of Game of
[1:31] Thrones. It's one of my favorite videos
[1:33] we've ever done. So, I can't wait for
[1:35] you guys to see that. And of course, a
[1:36] regular here on the show. You know him
[1:38] as the guy who's always on hold, Mr.
[1:40] Alex. Alex, do you have a second? How
[1:42] long are you on hold for?
[1:42] >> Uh, yeah. No, I'm actually, it's weird.
[1:44] I'm on hold with my mom. We had a really
[1:46] good conversation by the fireplace last
[1:48] night. I thought it went great, but I
[1:50] guess not. And now I'm just waiting for
[1:53] it.
[1:53] >> Oh, no.
[1:54] >> Too much.
[1:56] >> No, it's a little too soon.
[1:58] >> All right. I can't wait to get to that
[1:59] moment. I want to apologize to
[2:00] everybody. We had to move it from 2 to
[2:02] 245. Uh, but I forgot to change it. So,
[2:05] a lot of people are waiting. Sorry about
[2:07] that. And we already do have one super
[2:09] chat from Phil Rumba from Down Under,
[2:11] which I'm going to address right now
[2:12] because he's been waiting for 45
[2:13] minutes. That naval battle was
[2:15] spectacular, he says, for eight
[2:17] Australian dollars. Tense, brutal, and
[2:19] beautifully shot. And the death at the
[2:21] end hit hard. Outstanding television.
[2:22] How's Doug? Doug is great. And as a
[2:25] reminder, guys, super chats are
[2:26] encouraged, but not required. So, I want
[2:28] to get everybody's thoughts on the
[2:29] episode. Then a little bit later in the
[2:31] video, I want to talk about where this
[2:33] episode and this show is differing from
[2:35] the books and whether or not that's a
[2:36] good thing. So, mild spoiler for the
[2:38] books ahead as well. Cameron, what did
[2:40] you think of this episode?
[2:42] >> Um, I've kind of resigned to um House of
[2:45] the Dragon being just sort of like the
[2:48] better episodes of late Game of Thrones.
[2:50] I think the smaller things that I love
[2:52] with the characters and the more nuanced
[2:55] elements that made Throne so exciting
[2:57] for me and that make me love a lot of
[3:00] Night of the Seven Kingdoms. We're we're
[3:02] kind of past that. I don't think we're
[3:03] getting back to that in House of the
[3:05] Dragon. The thing that makes House the
[3:06] Dragon mustwatch for me is the
[3:09] performers, the sets and costumes, and
[3:12] the spectacle. So, uh, a lot of the
[3:14] story beats and a lot of the choices
[3:15] that are being made with the story and
[3:19] the characters are not necessarily for
[3:20] me, but I mean it the casting director
[3:23] for the Game of Thrones universe is just
[3:25] unbelievable because these performers
[3:27] are so arresting. I could be watching a
[3:29] scene and thinking about how upset I am
[3:31] about the writing, but be so entranced
[3:34] by what these performers are able to do
[3:35] with it. It's just it's remarkable. But
[3:38] I think of this as like comparable to
[3:40] Battle of the Bastards where I'm
[3:42] watching this happen on screen and I'm
[3:44] like, "Wow, this isn't the type of thing
[3:46] you get to see on TV. As a matter of
[3:48] fact, if you saw this in a huge movie,
[3:50] this would be considered an
[3:51] extraordinary giant setpiece in this big
[3:54] hundred million dollar movie. But, you
[3:56] know, don't think too hard about the
[3:58] nitty-gritty elements. You know, that's
[4:00] not what this is. Okay. All right. Watch
[4:02] the Seven Kingdoms.
[4:04] >> Well, I want to get to the nitty-gritty
[4:05] elements in just a second, so hang on to
[4:07] that. Harry, what did you think of the
[4:08] episode?
[4:08] >> Broadstrokes.
[4:10] >> I mean, I loved it. Um, I'm a huge House
[4:12] of the Dragon fan, and I just uh I want
[4:16] them to keep on doing what they've been
[4:17] doing. Uh, I was a little afraid uh at
[4:22] after the reception of season 2, which I
[4:23] personally loved. I know it wasn't for
[4:25] everybody. Um, but I was worried that
[4:27] they would sort of try to change
[4:30] direction in season 3 because of the
[4:32] fact that some people didn't like it.
[4:34] And I'm pleased that at least so far it
[4:36] seems like they're staying the course,
[4:38] which I have enjoyed and want them to
[4:40] keep doing. [laughter]
[4:42] >> Yeah. And um, well, I want to hear from
[4:43] Alex first and I've got a follow-up to
[4:45] both you and Cameron. Alex, what were
[4:46] your thoughts on the episode? Yeah, I
[4:48] think I share a lot of the thoughts of
[4:49] the other folks here in that I actually
[4:52] also like season 2. The thing that
[4:54] really pops to me on the show is like
[4:58] Cameron was saying, the conversations
[4:59] between the characters, the ones that I
[5:01] really care about, the thing that's
[5:02] difficult about this show versus Game of
[5:05] Thrones for me sometimes is Game of
[5:07] Thrones, you basically fell in love or
[5:10] absolute hate with almost everybody
[5:12] instantly. like they just had this
[5:14] special skill with the show of bringing
[5:16] on a character like oh that's the worst
[5:17] villain I've ever seen in my life or oh
[5:20] that person is doing kind of
[5:21] reprehensible things but I love them at
[5:23] the same time and house of the dragon
[5:25] has sometimes struggled with that I
[5:27] think other than say Allison Rea who are
[5:31] phenomenal across the board really our
[5:33] point of view characters the ones that
[5:34] we hook into or I'll speak for myself at
[5:37] least that's how I feel about it but my
[5:39] difficulty with this premiere was it
[5:41] focused mostly on a lot of the
[5:43] characters that I have not hooked into
[5:45] or I have to think for a second, wait,
[5:47] which sister is that? What's going on
[5:49] here? Which dragon is happening? And I'm
[5:52] not I'm not as into the spectacle to be
[5:55] honest. Like you can have these big
[5:57] battle scenes. And obviously they're
[5:59] thrilling and enjoyable and well done,
[6:01] but the smaller scenes in this episode
[6:04] really are the ones that pop in to me.
[6:06] just mentioned two very specifics and
[6:08] I'm sure we'll talk more about them
[6:09] later, but the fireplace scene and the
[6:12] scene of Rea being locked in her room,
[6:15] those were two real stands out of the
[6:17] episode because you got to see these
[6:19] actors acting. And not to go too far a
[6:22] field, but uh Allan Septimal, great TV
[6:25] critic.
[6:26] >> Late last week, he posted an interview
[6:28] that he did on the 10th anniversary of
[6:32] >> Oh my god, I'm blanking on what? Uh was
[6:34] it Hardome? The one
[6:36] >> I'm guessing
[6:37] >> where Ty Tyrion got conked on the head
[6:39] and missed the entire battle that
[6:41] episode.
[6:41] >> Blackwater.
[6:43] >> Yes. And he was
[6:44] >> Green Fork is the one where where they
[6:46] couldn't afford to shoot it so they just
[6:48] knocked Tyrion out and it ended up
[6:49] working out pretty well.
[6:50] >> Yeah. And it was Alan Taylor talking
[6:52] about that choice as well as the fact
[6:54] that because they didn't have the budget
[6:55] they had to do an 11minute dialogue
[6:57] scene of them just sitting at a tent
[6:58] playing games. And that's Game of
[7:01] Thrones to me. That's Westeros. That's
[7:03] the thing where like I get like prickly
[7:05] all over my skin and excited and alive
[7:08] versus watching a bunch of ships very
[7:10] slowly go through a pass and a bunch of
[7:12] dragons flying around in a circle. It's
[7:14] cool, but it's not the same level.
[7:16] >> Well, one of my favorite authors, Jason
[7:18] Paren, he's been on the channel once
[7:19] before and I would have him on more
[7:20] often, but it makes me nervous because I
[7:22] love his work so much. He had a great
[7:23] video recently where he talked about um
[7:25] criticisms people have on Game of
[7:27] Thrones. said the show is better than
[7:28] the books, which I haven't read all the
[7:30] books, but his argument was there's a
[7:32] lot of scenes that are in the show that
[7:34] you don't people don't realize are just
[7:35] from the show. Like the conversation
[7:36] between Jaime and Tywin, you know, a
[7:39] wolf does not consider himself does not
[7:40] consider the opinions of the sheep,
[7:42] things like that that were invented for
[7:43] the show. Lady Elena, much bigger in the
[7:46] show than she was in the book. Um, but
[7:48] then he his theory is that after a hard
[7:50] home, which is why it was on my mind,
[7:52] then Game of Thrones, suddenly the show
[7:54] had an expectation to always deliver on
[7:56] spectacle and those smaller moments went
[7:59] by the wayside. And I personally thought
[8:01] season two needed more smaller moments.
[8:04] I didn't care if it ended on a giant
[8:08] crescendo. Uh, season one of Game of
[8:09] Thrones, the giant crescendo is Ned
[8:11] Stark being beheaded. Spoiler alert. And
[8:13] I don't think you necessarily need that
[8:16] big moment. I thought the the Dragon
[8:18] Seeds was that big moment, but I would
[8:20] have liked two more episodes of the
[8:21] exact stuff you guys are talking about
[8:23] of like people in rooms and gardens
[8:25] talking, you know, like South Park did
[8:26] when they made fun of it. But Harry, you
[8:28] loved it. So, what are your thoughts on
[8:29] that? Could you have used more smaller
[8:30] moments?
[8:32] >> I mean, I think smaller moments in this
[8:34] episode or in season two.
[8:36] >> Um, well, season two had the smaller
[8:38] moments, but whatever your thoughts are.
[8:39] Go ahead. Yeah.
[8:40] >> I mean, I think um I actually do agree
[8:42] that the big battles are not my favorite
[8:44] part of this show. Um I know a lot of
[8:47] like I was kind of hyped up for this
[8:48] battle because I feel like everybody was
[8:50] like it was like oh it's like the
[8:51] biggest most complicated most expensive
[8:53] you know naval battle. Um so I was
[8:56] curious to see it but definitely the
[8:58] most memorable parts of the episode to
[9:00] me are not uh from that. I mean I am the
[9:05] well I won't say the biggest but I think
[9:06] I'm probably up there in terms of the
[9:08] biggest Allison High Tower stands in the
[9:11] world.
[9:12] This [laughter] is a good It is a good
[9:13] Allison's episode right there. I'm just
[9:15] saying
[9:17] >> I'm just saying I'm I'm right there too
[9:18] for her. That's
[9:19] >> okay. Okay. I thought she has never done
[9:22] anything wrong. She has never done
[9:24] anything wrong in her entire life.
[9:25] >> Perfect mother.
[9:26] >> Perfect mother.
[9:27] >> Perfect mother. Um you know, just
[9:30] morally upstanding from the beginning to
[9:32] the end. Um, but no, I I love her so
[9:34] much and I think like you mentioned the
[9:37] scene with her and Aean was viscerally
[9:40] like uncomfortable and also I just love
[9:43] to get to see Allison using her skills
[9:47] like her manipulation, her cunning
[9:50] >> for the sake of Reneer in this episode
[9:52] is really nice. Um, I love to see it no
[9:54] matter who she's using it for, but it's
[9:56] nice when it like feels like a morally
[9:58] [laughter] correct thing to do
[10:00] >> because season two took her off the
[10:01] board for so long. Like Aean's
[10:02] manipulated and you know, as soon as the
[10:04] men had what they wanted, she was pushed
[10:06] off to the sidelines. So, yeah, I agree.
[10:09] >> Yeah. So, she's taking her power back in
[10:11] this episode and also realizing once
[10:14] again just how uh horrible both of her
[10:17] children or both of her sons are. Uh
[10:19] yeah, Helena is
[10:20] >> holding out hope for for Dron and uh
[10:22] Helena is lovely, but
[10:24] >> apparently Dron's really nice. Like he's
[10:26] got round. [laughter] Yeah.
[10:29] >> Um and you know, just before we talk
[10:31] about like get your thoughts on the
[10:32] nuances here and the things you didn't
[10:34] like. Uh while we're talking about big
[10:35] battles, I do have Okay, so we always
[10:38] talk about merch on here. We've got two
[10:39] pieces of merch that I already have in
[10:41] the mail for myself. I love these
[10:43] shirts. I can't wait for you guys to see
[10:45] these. This is the Dance of the Dragons
[10:47] tour shirt. God, it is so cool. So, you
[10:49] got like the heavy metal look in front
[10:51] with the Seven Kingdoms tour and then on
[10:53] the back those are all the battles from
[10:55] the war from the Dance of the Dragons. I
[10:57] like this so much we might end up doing
[10:58] one for um like other shows and battles
[11:01] and things like that. Uh like imagine
[11:03] doing that for Lord of the Rings. That'd
[11:04] be cool. And this one is my favorite
[11:06] characters in this part of the story,
[11:07] the Winter Wolves. We came to Die. And I
[11:10] um the fact that it's like Chibs from
[11:12] Sons of Anarchy, whose name I can never
[11:14] remember, but the fact that he is
[11:15] leading the Winter Wolves makes me so
[11:18] excited. They're this badass group in
[11:20] the winter. They're old men who go into
[11:22] the the cold to die and I'm just so
[11:25] excited to see it happen. But that's in
[11:26] the future. The the links for those are
[11:28] below. And remember, if you are a store
[11:29] member at our $5 tier, you get 15% off
[11:32] our merch store. Cam, so what do you
[11:34] think? What lay in lay into it here? You
[11:35] don't have to just be nice. What what
[11:37] what's the nitty-gritty about this you
[11:38] didn't enjoy?
[11:39] >> Um I well I I just I again I' I've
[11:43] programmed myself to enjoy the show now
[11:45] because I can't let it hurt me anymore.
[11:47] You know, I've set boundaries with the
[11:49] show. So there's just certain ways it
[11:51] can't disappoint me. Um
[11:52] >> you sound like a true intern, by the
[11:54] way. I mean that [laughter] you know um
[11:57] I I I we won't get too specific but not
[12:00] unlike certain Game of Thrones
[12:01] characters. I've worked in politics for
[12:03] a while and you learn to set emotional
[12:04] boundaries in those situations. But look
[12:06] I mean I am a little ambivalent towards
[12:09] certain characters in the story and I
[12:12] think that um certain characters have
[12:15] felt a little bit like they've been
[12:18] written differently depending on what
[12:20] episode we're in. And it just
[12:23] >> in Game of Thrones, the side characters
[12:25] were so distinct. Like Ober and Martell
[12:29] to me on Game of Thrones was more
[12:31] memorable than the majority of the main
[12:33] cast on House of the Dragon. And Ober
[12:35] and Martell didn't have a lot of screen
[12:36] time. Bella Ramsay's character, uh,
[12:39] Lyanna Mormont, uh, that little
[12:41] monologue, uh, you know, the King of the
[12:44] North monologue that that Bella had at
[12:47] the end of season six
[12:48] >> was so memorable to me. And I think that
[12:51] there's a lot of characters who get a
[12:52] lot of screen time in House of the
[12:54] Dragon that aren't able to make that
[12:56] distinct impact. I mean, it really is
[12:59] the supporting characters like there's
[13:00] so many characters you you go
[13:02] >> Elena Martell. I mean, they're also
[13:03] talking about world-class casting too,
[13:05] either from veterans or upandcomers like
[13:07] within
[13:08] >> and that's and that's just it's on the
[13:11] script. There's no two ways about it
[13:13] because, you know, I I can think of
[13:15] maybe one or two performances that
[13:17] haven't been super compelling on House
[13:19] of the Dragon, but not really. I mean,
[13:22] every
[13:22] >> And are you being nice by not naming
[13:24] them right now?
[13:25] >> I can, again, I can only think of one or
[13:28] two. I have both of them in my head, but
[13:30] I don't think either of them are bad
[13:31] enough that they deserve to be shamed
[13:32] like that. It's up to interpretation.
[13:34] But I mean,
[13:35] >> you're so nice.
[13:36] >> What these actors are able to do is
[13:38] really insane. And some of them do a
[13:40] little some of them do a lot with a
[13:42] little. Like um obviously Emma Darcy and
[13:46] Olivia Cook are extraordinary. We don't
[13:48] need to talk in any more circles about
[13:50] that. Um but then you get somebody like
[13:53] Aean. I think his name is Euan. That's
[13:55] the actor's name.
[13:56] >> Euan.
[13:57] He he does this very interesting thing
[13:59] where it's like he has a very theatrical
[14:02] performance of Aean and he it feels like
[14:05] he's doing a different sort of acting as
[14:07] the other characters. Kristen Cole is so
[14:11] small. His monologues that he gives I I
[14:14] say this to people, Kristen Cole is
[14:16] actually the best adaptation we've ever
[14:17] gotten of A Feast for Crows because if
[14:19] you remember the book A Feast for Crows,
[14:21] so much of it is ruminating on the
[14:24] consequences of the war from the first
[14:26] three books. So much of a feast for
[14:27] crows is almost like a reflection and a
[14:29] meditation on the war of the five kings
[14:31] that hasn't fully ended, but you know
[14:32] what I'm saying. And Kristen Cole, his
[14:35] monologues that he gives, his long
[14:36] scenes
[14:37] >> with high Tower feel like the best of a
[14:40] feast for crows in a way that's really
[14:42] cool. But then you have Aemon and Aeund
[14:44] is like a Shakespeare villain. So, one
[14:47] of the really cool things on House of
[14:48] the Dragon is everybody's contributing
[14:51] in a very unique way and it makes the
[14:54] whole thing feel sort of like a big
[14:55] symphony where everybody's got a
[14:57] different instrument and everybody's
[14:58] contributing something special that's
[15:00] distinct from one another. Um, but
[15:02] again, in terms of the voices of the
[15:03] characters, in terms of the words on the
[15:05] page, I just don't have a really good
[15:07] job telling one Targaryen descendant
[15:10] from another necessarily. H well, Alex.
[15:13] Okay, so you mentioned that on the
[15:15] original Game of Thrones, um, not your
[15:17] words, but I'll paraphrase. Everybody
[15:19] was drawn with pretty broad strokes. You
[15:21] were, you know, you knew up front like,
[15:22] "Hey, this guy is a cool character. This
[15:25] guy Joffrey."
[15:27] >> Cio's one of the best examples. Cerio
[15:29] had five minutes on screen. You never
[15:31] forgot him.
[15:32] >> Yeah. And his speech was not in the book
[15:34] to bring up another point from Jason
[15:35] Parson. Um, given that, I kind of feel
[15:38] like House of the Dragon is a little bit
[15:41] more nuanced and subtle in how it
[15:43] presents these characters. Uh, there's a
[15:45] lot of gray area with them. Maybe
[15:47] because we saw them as children, so we
[15:48] understand why Aean is the way he is.
[15:51] Would you say that how this how does
[15:54] this show's subtleties compare to Game
[15:56] of Thrones? And which one which approach
[15:58] do you like better? [snorts]
[15:59] >> Well, I think that's interesting. I
[16:00] mean, certainly watching them over time,
[16:02] like you're saying, allows us to watch
[16:04] them develop, but like Cameron was
[16:06] saying, I think some of them, and not to
[16:09] take any of his words, but uh some of
[16:11] them just have not developed in
[16:12] interesting ways. I mean, I'll I'll call
[16:14] out names. I don't care. Uh Kristen Cole
[16:17] is the most boring character on the
[16:18] show, and I hope he dies. And it's
[16:21] >> favorite character, though.
[16:22] >> I'm sorry. It's crazy to me because
[16:24] Fabian Frankle is so funny in interviews
[16:27] and so charming. Like really you just
[16:30] the second you turn him on turn on a
[16:32] camera there any footage I've seen any
[16:34] interview I've seen he's like joke joke
[16:36] joke joke joke joke joke joke joke joke
[16:36] joke joke joke joke joke joke joke joke
[16:36] joke joke joke about it then you turn on
[16:38] Kristen Cole and he's like [laughter]
[16:40] I don't care about rape I don't know I
[16:42] just got to paint my shield that's what
[16:43] I got to do
[16:44] >> well he's going through it though he's
[16:45] suffering from PTSD at [laughter] this
[16:47] point okay yeah it's not the most
[16:49] exciting thing
[16:50] >> I'm sorry and this is obviously this is
[16:52] personal preference but just when they
[16:53] cut to that scene I was like oh man oh
[16:56] here we go
[16:57] >> a sad a sad detach hatched guy is it
[16:59] >> exactly and I don't want to watch a guy
[17:02] scorned incel
[17:03] >> I don't want to watch a guy who doesn't
[17:04] want to be there like if he doesn't want
[17:06] to be there I don't want him to be there
[17:08] you know that's very different from
[17:09] what's going on with like say Laris and
[17:11] Aegon who are going through a very
[17:14] >> very classic uh Game of Thrones
[17:16] situation where they're like we had very
[17:18] high status and now we have to pretend
[17:20] to be low status and things are going to
[17:22] get steadily worse and worse and more
[17:23] horrible for us until maybe we learn a
[17:25] lesson and become a little better or
[17:27] maybe not but that's Great. Like that's
[17:28] worked a billion times on Game of
[17:30] Thrones. I do think it's going to work
[17:32] here as well. And those are characters
[17:34] that have popped in different ways and
[17:36] now thrusting them into a different
[17:37] situation because we've watched them so
[17:39] so long is going to challenge them. I'll
[17:41] throw out one other name which I feel
[17:42] bad about because I really love the
[17:44] actors. But part of the reason I
[17:46] couldn't hook into the battle of the
[17:47] gullet was that there's a bunch of
[17:49] characters that I've had a hard time
[17:51] caring about. And I say this like
[17:54] >> good point.
[17:54] >> Steve Tusant, fantastic actor. I'm
[17:57] blanking on his name, but he's the guy
[17:58] who played father on Raised by Wolves,
[18:00] which is an amazing show that everybody
[18:01] should check out. He plays Allan, and
[18:04] he's awesome as well. But
[18:07] >> there's nothing really going on with
[18:08] their characters now that it's Reus who
[18:10] died, right, who was phenomenal. But
[18:13] without her as that rudder for that
[18:15] storyline, they're just sort of kind of
[18:17] wandering around. We get this to the
[18:20] point of Game of Thrones style
[18:22] introductions. I'm also blanking her
[18:24] name. Was it Shakaro Lohan? I'm getting
[18:26] that definitely very
[18:27] >> uh Lowhar
[18:28] >> Lohar something like that. We get like
[18:31] again like a classic, oh, she's not a
[18:32] Greyjoy, but she's basically a Greyjoy
[18:35] cool pirate lady who comes in with this
[18:36] awesome introduction and then brings up
[18:39] a set of circumstances that as far as
[18:41] I'm aware, we've never heard about in
[18:42] the show and suddenly have to
[18:44] emotionally hook into and then she's
[18:45] dead by the end of the episode. And I
[18:47] was like, I don't know. There's there's
[18:51] something again, not to throw everybody
[18:52] into the same situations over and over,
[18:54] but I do feel like the difference
[18:56] between Game of Thrones and House of the
[18:57] Dragon is she would have come in, burned
[19:00] High Tide, wrecked the fleet, taken the
[19:04] sea snake and his children hostage,
[19:06] tortured them for an entire season, and
[19:09] then we would come out with a better
[19:11] understanding of her, a better
[19:12] understanding of them. Instead, it's
[19:14] done in one and half the episode, and it
[19:16] just doesn't have the same impact. I
[19:18] don't know if in season one too.
[19:21] >> No, it does. It does. So, Harry, what do
[19:23] you think? Um, are you do you think
[19:25] there's some characters who are like
[19:26] underserved right now or that aren't
[19:28] allowed to fully bake or what are your
[19:29] thoughts and responses to what these two
[19:31] guys have said?
[19:32] >> I mean, I agree that there are some
[19:34] characters where I feel like I'm still
[19:36] waiting to see how their characters are
[19:38] going to be. Like, I would love to for
[19:40] more screen time, which I'm sure we're
[19:41] going to get this season, uh, with like
[19:43] Baya and Raina. Um.
[19:46] >> Mhm.
[19:46] >> And um
[19:48] >> I
[19:50] >> but I think um in some ways, not to like
[19:53] be complete House of the Dragon defense
[19:55] hour over here, I think we're kind of
[19:58] we're kind of doing it a disservice by
[19:59] comparing it so directly to Game of
[20:01] Thrones. I feel uh because Game of
[20:03] Thrones was in its essence an ensemble
[20:06] show. Um whereas
[20:09] uh I think that House of the Dragon is
[20:11] much more focused on a much smaller set
[20:13] of characters.
[20:15] And so I think uh that there certainly
[20:18] aren't as many like scene stealing uh
[20:20] side characters, but I think that that's
[20:23] not unintentional. Um and I do agree
[20:26] like I I think Lowhar didn't quite work
[20:28] for me as a character. I think waiting
[20:31] to introduce her to the last episode of
[20:33] last season. Um and I just think that
[20:36] like the the triarchy stuff just doesn't
[20:39] uh doesn't interest me that much. Um,
[20:42] but I think in general
[20:46] um I I find that there are a lot of uh I
[20:49] also think that in talking about how
[20:51] there are side characters that are
[20:53] ineffective, we have lists of like a lot
[20:54] of side characters that are very
[20:55] effective. Um,
[20:56] >> very true
[20:58] >> and like like Laris um like uh and I I I
[21:02] think that I am actually quite
[21:04] interested to see what's going on with
[21:05] Coralus. So I was uh I'm I think he was
[21:08] a real standout in season two for me. So
[21:11] >> for Lowhar, I was standing around in
[21:14] season two.
[21:16] >> Well, he was depressed. He was also
[21:17] quite sad for a long time.
[21:19] >> He was hanging up. I mean, it's really a
[21:20] testament to how hard it is to adapt
[21:23] Fire and Blood. And I think a lot of the
[21:24] people who have trouble
[21:26] >> you who who are upset about certain
[21:27] choices. I mean, I'm very upset about
[21:29] certain choices, but I also want to just
[21:32] I want people to understand if you
[21:33] really know Ball, if you really
[21:36] understand Fire and Blood, you
[21:38] understand that there were just going to
[21:39] be some impossible choices that Condol
[21:41] and Hess had to make. And again,
[21:44] >> I think that they made choices I don't
[21:46] like that they didn't have to make. But
[21:48] at the end of the day, um it's a very
[21:50] complicated piece of writing, Fire and
[21:52] Blood. There's a lot of things that were
[21:55] they under the same scrutiny under which
[21:58] George put uh the Ice and Fire main
[22:01] books just would not have gone down that
[22:04] way. There's some things I'm not going
[22:05] to spoil that are going to happen later
[22:07] this season in King's Landing that don't
[22:10] make that much sense in Fire and Blood.
[22:12] And it's awesome. I mean, I chewed Fire
[22:14] and Blood up. I don't read quickly. I
[22:15] finished it very quickly. But there's
[22:17] just some stuff
[22:18] >> Yeah.
[22:19] >> Yeah. There's just some stuff that once
[22:21] you take it you there's some stuff that
[22:24] works because you're reading other
[22:25] people's accounts of it. But once you're
[22:27] there and you have to be in the scene
[22:30] fivedimensionally, the writers are going
[22:32] to have to make some choices and it's
[22:33] just going to leave some fans very
[22:34] upset. Um but again I I just I wish
[22:39] there was I wish there was a platinum
[22:41] globe for those actors really. Well, let
[22:44] me let me let's start talking about the
[22:46] adaptation and by way of the characters
[22:48] I think were underserved in this episode
[22:50] and only because I know how important
[22:52] they are and let's let's avoid specific
[22:54] spoilers for the books, but um the
[22:56] bastards, right? So, that was the big
[22:59] culmination of last season. Uh it was
[23:01] the the dragon seeds, you know, and then
[23:03] seeing like how coarse Ulf is. Hugh
[23:05] Hammer was probably my favorite like
[23:08] side character in Fire and Blood the
[23:10] whole freaking volume. and and the they
[23:12] gave him a great setup with his wife and
[23:14] his his dead kid. Felt really bad for
[23:17] him. And in this episode, they got one
[23:19] scene. And I kind of I as much as I
[23:21] appreciate the focus actually shifting
[23:23] to Reneer's children in this episode
[23:25] because usually it's on Allison's kids.
[23:28] I do kind of want to see those guys do a
[23:31] little bit more. And I'm sure there's
[23:33] going to be more. I mean, Alice shows
[23:35] up, she talks to them and stuff like
[23:37] that. But nevertheless, that's the one
[23:38] thing in Fire Blood. Those characters
[23:40] really pop off the page and I felt like
[23:43] I don't know, you can kind of just maybe
[23:45] it's me and I don't want to spoil
[23:46] anything, but you can kind of see what's
[23:47] going to happen. I think they're
[23:48] telegraphing it too hard.
[23:49] >> Can I just say uh for anyone who isn't a
[23:52] total dork like us and just enjoy
[23:56] >> We lost everyone who's watching the
[23:58] channel. Wow. Stream went down to zero.
[24:00] That's crazy.
[24:01] >> I've never seen that happen before.
[24:02] >> You can buy You can see all the Ice and
[24:04] Fire books behind me, by the way. So, if
[24:06] you're if you're someone who isn't like
[24:07] this, you might not know this, but um
[24:10] because of the writer strike uh years
[24:13] ago, season 2 got preemptively cut. So,
[24:17] the the battle of the gullet in last
[24:20] night's episode was supposed to be the
[24:23] big culmination of what season 2 was
[24:25] building towards. So, everybody said,
[24:26] "Oh, season two left on such a flat note
[24:29] with everybody getting ready for these
[24:31] random battles." Well, it's because you
[24:33] know that very often the big thing in
[24:36] Thrones is the penultimate episode and
[24:39] from what I understand the Gullet was
[24:41] supposed to be the penultimate episode
[24:42] of season 2. Um because it had to get
[24:45] moved to the beginning of season 3. One
[24:48] of the things that was that was an issue
[24:50] for me in this episode was you had a
[24:52] couple of scenes that really felt like
[24:54] the writers reminding the audience who
[24:57] the characters are and what they're
[24:58] doing right now because it's been two
[25:00] years.
[25:01] >> So, we had certain scenes checking in
[25:04] with characters to set the tone for the
[25:06] season,
[25:07] >> whereas I think the the best version of
[25:09] this episode and the version that it was
[25:10] originally intended to be was going to
[25:13] surround the characters in the gullet
[25:15] sequence more. we were going to get more
[25:17] time with Jace and the other writers in
[25:20] the battle. We were going to get a
[25:21] little bit more time fleshing out who
[25:24] the pieces on the board were going to
[25:25] be. Because one thing we forget uh to
[25:28] your point, by the way, about Thrones
[25:31] being an ensemble show, whereas this uh
[25:33] focuses on a smaller set of characters
[25:35] is a lot of the most memorable episodes
[25:37] of Game of Thrones have like at least
[25:40] one main character just not in it. like
[25:43] some of the best Thrones episode.
[25:45] Daenerys isn't in. John isn't in.
[25:47] >> Very few don't have Tyrion, but
[25:49] >> Bran's not in a whole season.
[25:51] >> Yeah, exactly. Well,
[25:53] >> Bran's also the character who gives
[25:55] George the hardest time writing. George
[25:57] says that Bran is the hardest character
[25:58] to write because of a lot of the magic
[26:00] stuff, but um
[26:02] >> Oh, yeah. I mean, with all the
[26:04] three-eyed raven stuff where we won't go
[26:06] too far into
[26:08] >> Yeah. No, I can see where you're going.
[26:09] Don't go down that rabbit hole, my
[26:10] friend.
[26:12] talk about 200 years from now for one
[26:14] second. Um, the Game of Thrones books
[26:16] take place very close to the conscious
[26:19] of the characters. Every chapter is from
[26:21] their point of view and it's not from
[26:23] their first person point of view.
[26:25] >> So,
[26:25] >> it's third person limited.
[26:27] >> Exactly. If Arya hears overhears Varys
[26:30] having a conversation, the reader might
[26:32] be able to put together that it's Varys,
[26:34] but Arya doesn't know who he is, so
[26:36] they'll just say the bald man. All this
[26:38] is to say you need to write the magic
[26:41] very indepth when you're writing Bran as
[26:43] the three-eyed raven because you have
[26:45] access to Bran's conscious and the
[26:47] three-eyed raven is all about the
[26:49] conscious mind being something that
[26:51] could be expanded so far that it is just
[26:54] incomprehensible and writing that is
[26:56] pretty difficult. So George introduced a
[26:59] lot of these magic elements in the first
[27:00] book, A Game of Thrones. And then in A
[27:03] Clash of Kings and Ator Storm of Swords,
[27:05] you don't get that much of the magic
[27:07] stuff. It's really about the War of the
[27:08] Five Kings. And then by the end of Feast
[27:11] for Crows and Dance for Dragons, we
[27:12] reconciled with the fact that George now
[27:14] has to answer certain questions about
[27:16] magic that he was kind of avoiding for a
[27:18] couple books. Um but uh all this is to
[27:21] say uh the the reason we got onto this
[27:25] tangent in the first place is um the
[27:29] those bigger set pieces very often took
[27:32] an entire episode. So some of the most
[27:34] memorable Thrones episodes did not
[27:36] feature some of the main characters. And
[27:38] I do think the ideal version of this
[27:40] Gullet episode spends very very little
[27:42] time away from the characters in that
[27:45] sequence and gives us a little bit more
[27:47] time to get a sense of the physical
[27:50] space in the sequence. I think the one
[27:51] thing that was limited about the
[27:53] cinematography of the Gullet sequence
[27:55] was I didn't have that cohesive an idea
[27:59] of whose ships belonged to whom, where
[28:02] those ships were, and where they
[28:04] physically are at this point. I know
[28:06] >> the scale. Yeah, the scale and where
[28:08] they were, you know. I think all it
[28:10] needed was that classic Game of Thrones
[28:13] map scene where they're they're laying
[28:15] it out for us and saying, "Yep, we're
[28:17] going to go here." I think that the the
[28:20] pirates, the triarchy had that a little
[28:22] bit where they were discussing their
[28:23] strategy, but that vis that extra visual
[28:25] aid
[28:25] >> always. I'll throw out a visual aid that
[28:27] would have helped me. Different colored
[28:29] sales that would have helped. Like
[28:31] literally, if you just had red and blue,
[28:33] I like, "Oh, okay. I know who everybody
[28:34] is." and it's stupid, but when you're
[28:37] watching something, you do want to do
[28:38] those quick visual cues for everybody
[28:41] immediately. So, I don't know.
[28:43] >> I thought the battle though was sold
[28:44] more on the characters responses to it.
[28:46] And naval battles are really tough
[28:47] because they're huge. I mean, it's not
[28:49] like in a a battle like Battle of the
[28:51] Bastards where you can look at
[28:52] characters faces and you understand
[28:53] immediately from context. So, obviously
[28:56] when Corass and Allen and all these
[28:58] people are going, "Oh [ __ ] this is
[29:01] bad." And then the pirates are happy.
[29:03] You go, "Oh boy, this is bad for them."
[29:05] And then the dragons show up and people
[29:07] cheer. I I think it was really a battle
[29:09] that was told through specific
[29:11] characters and through what happened to
[29:12] the dragons. To that point, Harriet, you
[29:15] made a great observation in our Easter
[29:17] egg video. So, in the book, it's very
[29:19] different. In the book, Jace is joined
[29:22] by the bastards on Dragon Back and by
[29:25] Nettles, who people who haven't read the
[29:27] book don't know what the hell a Nettles
[29:28] is. So, I you pointed out this great
[29:30] thing where Alice shows up and says to
[29:32] the bastards, "You this, you shouldn't
[29:34] be here. You should be at the battle." I
[29:36] I do think that was an overt reference
[29:38] to the fact they weren't. Maybe in Cam,
[29:40] what Cam was talking about, they were
[29:42] originally supposed to be in the final
[29:44] episode, but maybe the money wasn't
[29:46] there for all the dragons in this battle
[29:47] of the gullet. I don't know. But what
[29:50] what do we Yeah, go ahead, Harry. Tell
[29:51] us about like the change from Nettles to
[29:54] is it Raina, the one who takes the
[29:55] dragon, and whether or not you think
[29:56] that works. Um, I mean, I think I'm also
[29:59] in the minority here in that I think I
[30:01] am a big fan of most of the changes that
[30:04] are being made from Fire and Blood. Um,
[30:06] I think most notably when it comes to
[30:08] like the characters of Reneer and
[30:09] Allison, who are just like not nearly as
[30:12] interesting in the book, I find um
[30:15] >> well, they weren't friends. They don't
[30:16] no one knows about their friendship or
[30:18] talks about it.
[30:19] >> And I I just find the way that their
[30:20] motivations are written are a little bit
[30:22] more um narrow. I mean, it makes sense
[30:25] because the book is not like only about
[30:27] these two characters. Like, it is a
[30:28] larger history. It has a lot of people
[30:30] to get through. Um, but I think um
[30:36] I I don't think we needed to have the
[30:38] dragon seeds at the battle of the
[30:40] gullet. I think it's too many
[30:41] characters. They don't really do
[30:43] anything unique in the book uh during
[30:45] that battle that would have I'm like,
[30:47] "Oh, I really missed it when Hugh Hammer
[30:49] probably uh lit some guys on fire." like
[30:52] they didn't they didn't really do
[30:53] anything specific, so I'm not mad they
[30:56] weren't there. Um, and when it comes to
[30:58] Nettles in general, uh, that was a
[31:00] character that I was initially a bit sad
[31:04] about, uh, the fact that they're
[31:06] swapping her for Raina, but at the same
[31:07] time, I think it makes a lot of sense.
[31:11] Um, when it comes to like,
[31:14] >> uh, giving Raina more to do for one
[31:16] thing. I know I've seen people being
[31:17] like sad about the fact that Raina's
[31:19] character won't necessarily, and I'll be
[31:21] vague, won't be going down the exact
[31:22] same path
[31:23] >> that she goes down in the book, but I
[31:25] think when it comes to the scale of the
[31:27] show,
[31:28] >> yeah,
[31:29] >> uh, and the years that the show is
[31:31] likely to cover, I think this is going
[31:32] to make Raina a much more important
[31:34] character now. Um,
[31:36] >> yeah. Well,
[31:37] >> it also keeps the focus like the Fast
[31:39] and Furious franchise on family just by
[31:41] having her be in there instead of
[31:42] Nettles, by the way, is a just a
[31:44] different dragon seed who tame sheep
[31:46] stealer by giving it sheep. And I think
[31:48] Nettles actually is good at riding the
[31:51] dragon, not like what we see.
[31:53] >> There's also like popular fan theory uh
[31:56] that Nettles is uh possibly Damon's
[32:00] bastard daughter. Um
[32:02] >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. because she's from
[32:04] the Riverlands sense enough that they're
[32:06] just like, "Okay, so it's Raina who is
[32:08] his daughter." So,
[32:10] >> yeah, that makes sense. Which, by the
[32:11] way, for anyone who is curious, this
[32:13] potential bastard daughter, I don't
[32:15] happen to believe that theory, but I'm
[32:16] familiar with the theory, um, does have
[32:19] a sexual relationship with Damon as
[32:20] well, which is not uncharacteristic for
[32:22] Damon.
[32:23] >> But I imagine the writers of the show,
[32:26] who seem a bit more sympathetic to
[32:28] Damon, seem like bigger fans of Damon,
[32:30] might not have wanted to have Damon do
[32:31] something that predatory again. Um,
[32:34] >> yeah, I mean, he marries his niece,
[32:36] that's already pretty far bridge over
[32:38] the river. Uh, so I happen to completely
[32:40] agree that the dragon seeds were
[32:42] unnecessary for the Battle of the
[32:44] Gullet. I think it would have just made
[32:45] it even more confusing. Um, because not
[32:48] only do you now have to keep up with
[32:49] which ships are which, now you have to
[32:51] keep up with which dragons are which.
[32:53] Um,
[32:54] >> can I throw out there as somebody uh,
[32:56] full disclosure has not read Fire and
[32:58] Blood, so I'm definitely I've read the
[32:59] rest of the books, but I'm coming into
[33:00] this clean. I think my impression from
[33:03] watching this episode is that if you had
[33:06] the dragon seeds in the gullet, it would
[33:08] have changed the course of the battle
[33:11] potentially. It would sort of overwhelm
[33:13] the amount of dragons that are there.
[33:15] That's certainly what I took away from
[33:16] it. Obviously, they're still like
[33:17] figuring out how to use the dragons, so
[33:19] that's certainly an issue. But that that
[33:22] was my feeling just purely from watching
[33:24] the show was they were kept off stage
[33:26] because if they came in, it would have
[33:28] been a very different battle than the
[33:29] one they watched. Not to backseat,
[33:31] right? But I do feel like there's a
[33:33] version where they come in in that last
[33:36] scene and are like, "Oh my god, what
[33:39] actually happened here?" And we do get
[33:41] that sort of little wrap up of their
[33:43] tiny little story line throughout the
[33:44] episode. Because right now, Alice
[33:46] telling them, "You got to go to the
[33:48] battle. You're missing this." And they
[33:49] do in fact miss it is not a satisfying
[33:52] resolution in this hour of television.
[33:55] >> Sorry to interrupt.
[33:55] >> Yeah, they really just have a couple of
[33:56] scenes. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, Kim.
[33:59] Um, so look, there's going to be some
[34:01] consolidations that have to be made and
[34:03] it's going to make some people unhappy.
[34:04] I'm unhappy at some of those
[34:05] consolidations. But like I said, there's
[34:07] just a lot of really, really difficult
[34:09] things about this show because you have
[34:10] to make a cohesive story about a history
[34:13] book that covers years and years and
[34:15] years at a time. And George just spams
[34:18] Fire and Blood with characters. Every
[34:20] page of Fire and Blood, there's nine new
[34:22] characters. I I I had like a legal pad
[34:26] tracking the characters I was reading,
[34:27] especially during the reign of King
[34:29] Jiharis, the old king, Jiharis the
[34:32] consiliator.
[34:32] >> Yeah. When he has like 13 kids and they
[34:34] all have kids. Yeah.
[34:35] >> Um but one of the things that was really
[34:39] big as an omission and then
[34:41] unfortunately I have to go because I
[34:42] I've been working this entire time and
[34:44] have been uh you know pretending to be
[34:47] online at my job. But um one of the
[34:50] things that was was a huge omission, and
[34:53] this is a spoiler for the book, so
[34:54] please excuse me if you were
[34:56] >> I think we're okay with spoilers. Yeah.
[34:57] >> Was um Reineer's sons were supposed to
[34:59] be at this fight. In the book, her very
[35:03] very young son who's a little bit I
[35:06] think he's I think he's older in the
[35:07] It's a rare case of a character being
[35:09] older in the book than on the show.
[35:11] Normally the characters get aged up on
[35:13] the Game of Thrones shows because of all
[35:14] the sex violence and all that. Um, but
[35:17] in this case,
[35:18] >> Reineer has a baby right now. It's easy
[35:20] to forget that because of how many
[35:21] things are going on, but Reineer's got
[35:24] two babies. Um, Egon the third
[35:26] >> with Damon. Yeah.
[35:27] >> Yeah. Egon the third, whose very naming
[35:30] of Agon was meant to be an insult to
[35:32] Agon the
[35:34] >> well, whatever you want to call him, you
[35:35] know, Agon the true king or Agon the
[35:37] >> Egon the second.
[35:38] >> Agon the second or Egon the usurper,
[35:41] whatever, whatever you want. Um she has
[35:43] Egon's
[35:45] around five or six four, five, six years
[35:47] old in the book at this point and then
[35:49] she's got um
[35:50] >> a younger um I think Viseris II and they
[35:55] are both being transported to Esos
[35:58] >> during the Battle of the Gullet. And
[35:59] this is a very important plot point
[36:01] because that son of hers,
[36:03] >> again, spoiler alert, is going to be one
[36:06] of the more consequential characters in
[36:07] the next 100 years of Westerosi history.
[36:10] And
[36:12] >> Viseris II gets kidnapped by the
[36:15] Triarchy and is presumed dead.
[36:18] >> And Agon barely escapes on a tiny dragon
[36:22] and will forever for excuse me for a
[36:24] very very long time be plagued with the
[36:25] guilt of what happened with that. But
[36:27] really of all of the things happening at
[36:29] the Battle of the Gullet, the there
[36:31] there big deal was of course what
[36:35] happened with Jerus. Rest in peace. I
[36:37] mean darkhaired Targaryenss can never
[36:39] catch a break. Rest in peace, Jerus.
[36:41] Rest in peace, Baylor.
[36:42] >> John survived, but sure.
[36:44] >> Well,
[36:46] he had a hard time, too. It's not easy
[36:48] to be charact.
[36:50] >> He did die. He did die, actually. So,
[36:52] yeah, you're right. No, they Yeah.
[36:54] >> But I was just going to say the the the
[36:57] really big development there was the
[36:59] pieces that were put in place for what's
[37:02] going to happen after the result of the
[37:05] dance of the dragons. So that was cut
[37:08] >> and that is a huge cut and I imagine
[37:10] George was very unhappy about that. And
[37:12] there's some things that make George
[37:14] very upset where I'm like yeah George
[37:16] look what they did to your baby. You
[37:18] should be furious. And there's some
[37:19] things where I'm like George what did
[37:21] you want them to do? [laughter] Like
[37:23] there's just certain story like George
[37:26] >> when they cut like one of Helena's kids
[37:28] and he threw a hissy fit on social and
[37:30] then later deleted it. Right. And and
[37:32] and look, I'm very sympathetic to
[37:36] George, all right? But sometimes it's
[37:38] like,
[37:38] >> we love George. George is great.
[37:41] >> The thing that that we're the thing
[37:42] that's annoying to me is I'm like,
[37:43] George, you've seen this on Game of
[37:45] Thrones before. Like, you understand
[37:48] that there's
[37:49] >> uh that you have to sacrifice certain
[37:52] things when you're adapting something
[37:53] from page to screen. You understand that
[37:55] you have an unlimited budget for set
[37:57] pieces on the page, and that's not the
[37:59] case on screen.
[38:00] >> But I digress. I love House the Dragon.
[38:03] I love George. There's a lot of stuff I
[38:05] don't love, but I'm lucky to be here
[38:07] with you guys talking about it. I have
[38:09] to go do my job. Thank you all.
[38:10] >> Cam, you're fired.
[38:12] >> Oh, yeah. As always, nice meeting you
[38:14] guys, by the way.
[38:16] >> Miss you. And that was Cameron Casky,
[38:18] ladies and gentlemen, laying down brutal
[38:20] truth about the hot D. Um,
[38:23] >> can I just say my big my big takeaway
[38:25] from that is I feel like we were robbed
[38:27] seeing a baby on a tidy little dragon.
[38:29] Apparently that's in the books and we
[38:32] should have seen him flying around to
[38:33] the battle of that would have been
[38:34] >> he's not a baby but he is Cameron's
[38:36] right like he does become and there's a
[38:38] partic
[38:38] >> there is a particular thing about him
[38:41] the dying of the dragons that's really
[38:43] important. Um
[38:44] >> I disagree though. I don't think it's
[38:46] necessarily vital to that part of the
[38:49] whole story though. Go ahead Harriet. I
[38:51] will say I mentioned this in our Easter
[38:52] egg video, but I feel pretty I think
[38:55] it's pretty likely that these are that
[38:56] the events of those two kids from the
[38:59] battle of the gullet in the book will be
[39:01] adapted in some other way later in the
[39:03] season. I think it's possible that they
[39:05] just didn't want to draw focus away from
[39:08] the battle. Um,
[39:10] >> yes, I think you're right. I'm
[39:11] remembering. Yes, I think you're right.
[39:13] >> So, like we'll see. I I might be wrong
[39:15] about that, but uh that's what I think
[39:17] is that they're probably separating
[39:19] those two events to make them more
[39:20] easily understood.
[39:23] >> Alex, you are probably feeling like I do
[39:25] when I hear two soccer fans talk about
[39:27] World Cup [laughter] stuff.
[39:28] >> Like we're here like
[39:31] and then he's got a you know a good
[39:33] friend.
[39:33] >> I mean listen, I've watched every
[39:35] episode of these shows multiple times.
[39:37] All of them. I've read the Song of Ice
[39:40] and Fire books, the Duncan Egg Nollas,
[39:43] Fire and Blood for some reason, and now
[39:45] I know after taping this that I got to
[39:47] go read it because I'm missing out. But
[39:49] to me, I was like,
[39:51] >> it it is such a fun read and you
[39:54] really good. Yeah,
[39:55] >> because when I heard about it, I was
[39:56] like, I don't want to read an appendix.
[39:58] What are we doing? It's like reading
[39:59] this mystery that's being told by really
[40:01] gossipy like people who [laughter] are
[40:04] like and I heard like
[40:06] >> and it's like it's like if the
[40:08] smearillion was intended for people to
[40:09] read you know what I mean like if it was
[40:11] actually [laughter] like
[40:12] >> that's my problem is I tried reading the
[40:13] simmerelion and I was like my eyes
[40:15] started oh god no it's impossible and I
[40:17] felt like
[40:18] >> what a lot of people don't realize no
[40:20] one's actually read the simmerelion
[40:22] everybody just says they had
[40:24] >> even Peter Jackson you ask him about it
[40:26] he can't provide details that's the No,
[40:29] he lies. You can tell. It's in his eyes.
[40:30] You can tell. You can [laughter] tell
[40:31] when a kiwi lies to your face.
[40:33] >> I've never been afraid to look away from
[40:34] a man's gaze. It's natural. [laughter]
[40:37] >> I was definitely like there were bits of
[40:38] fire and blood. I was like, "Okay, I'll
[40:40] go to bed after just like one more one
[40:42] more dynasty." Like, [laughter]
[40:43] >> and it's so easy. But I'll tell you my
[40:45] favorite thing about Fire and Blood. And
[40:46] like I think, you know, they're making
[40:47] an Aegon Conqueror movie. I I think
[40:50] that's the first movie. I think the
[40:51] second movie is about his kids. And then
[40:53] I I think they're going to do that. Like
[40:55] I don't think that his conquest can
[40:56] support more than one movie. My favorite
[40:59] part of the book is just when things run
[41:02] really well when old King Jiharis takes
[41:04] over the kingdom and builds roads and
[41:06] institutes reforms. I'm like I'm like
[41:08] can't you know I get I'm into politics
[41:10] and Sim City and that was my two
[41:12] favorite things is like reading all this
[41:14] stuff. I loved it. But let me ask you
[41:15] this. So we got an interesting question
[41:16] here on a super chat from Arman the
[41:18] regular contributor. Gave us five
[41:19] pounds. Thank you so much. I really
[41:21] think he says or they say this should
[41:23] have been an animated series. Maybe I'm
[41:26] crazy for that. An animated series in
[41:28] this world could be so fun. I don't know
[41:30] about this story, but I'm with you on
[41:32] the animated series thing. That would be
[41:34] kind of cool. I wonder if there's side
[41:37] stories even from the original show they
[41:39] could go into animated. Yeah, I don't
[41:42] think they would ever do this for not
[41:45] even like almost reverse budgetary
[41:47] reasons because they do want to I think
[41:49] there's a certain level of marketing
[41:51] where they're like, "Yeah, we spent $20
[41:53] million on this amazing looking TV show,
[41:55] so tune into it." But that's a great way
[41:58] of continuing stuff past Game of
[42:01] Thrones. Like, as much as I'd like to
[42:03] see the liveaction Jon Snow show or the
[42:05] live action definitely the live action
[42:07] Arya show.
[42:09] >> Yeah. just do Arya in animation like an
[42:12] adult animated series like the like
[42:15] Castlevania or Devil May Cry or anything
[42:17] like that. That would be rad.
[42:20] >> Or like in the style of Arcane that
[42:21] painted style.
[42:22] >> Oh yeah,
[42:22] >> that would be great, too.
[42:24] >> And Harry, there's already I mean if
[42:25] Yeah, go ahead.
[42:26] >> Oh, sorry. What were you going to say?
[42:28] The the histories and lore things.
[42:30] >> Yeah.
[42:30] >> Um yeah, I mean the histories and lore
[42:32] like uh and conquests and rebellions
[42:34] like little animated things are really
[42:36] awesome. Uh definitely really useful for
[42:39] B-roll when we're cutting videos. Um but
[42:42] uh I think yeah, I would love to see I
[42:45] don't think that this needs to be
[42:46] animation by any means. I think the
[42:48] performances are some of my favorite
[42:50] parts of it. And obviously voice acting
[42:52] is an art in and of itself, but I mean
[42:54] the
[42:54] >> like facial performances of these actors
[42:57] are so integral to what I love about
[43:00] this show. Like I can't imagine Allison
[43:02] not being Olivia Cook's face. Um,
[43:06] >> right. Right.
[43:07] >> But, uh, I think like I would love to
[43:09] see like an animated like series or
[43:12] movie about like the uh how Daenerys's
[43:15] eggs like ended up on the other side of
[43:17] the Narrow Sea. I think that's a really
[43:18] fascinating part of Fire and Blood. So,
[43:20] I would love to see that.
[43:22] >> Um,
[43:22] >> well, you know what what else would be
[43:24] interesting too is um they they did try
[43:27] to develop a couple of Game of Thrones
[43:29] pilots that no one will ever see. One is
[43:30] about the age of heroes and the long
[43:32] night which apparently is unwatchable.
[43:34] And gosh, somebody famous is in that
[43:36] too. I can't remember. It's not Holly
[43:38] Hunter. That would be funny to see in
[43:39] the Game of Thrones universe, but it's
[43:41] Patricia Arquette I think is in it.
[43:43] [clears throat and snorts]
[43:43] >> Um, and then they apparently scrapped a
[43:45] Valyria one, like an old Valyria in the
[43:47] style of like the sci-fi show Krypton or
[43:49] Capria that takes place like during
[43:51] that. I think Valyria is a place that
[43:54] would be so beautiful
[43:56] >> that it should be animated like in the
[43:59] style of arcane like this painted kind
[44:01] of like very expensive lush where like
[44:03] we shouldn't be able to imagine like
[44:06] Drogon should be the last creature that
[44:08] sees old Valyria you know what I mean
[44:09] and you can kind of maintain the myth
[44:11] that way and then actually Alex oh go
[44:13] ahead I got a
[44:14] >> I was just going to throw off uh throw
[44:16] out based on what you're saying what
[44:18] would be in my opinion really cool is
[44:20] like a tales of Westeros type story
[44:23] where you
[44:23] >> I thought they would do that.
[44:25] >> Take those pilots that you're talking
[44:27] about, animate them, and have them as be
[44:30] like, well, maybe this happened, maybe
[44:31] this didn't. We're telling this tale to
[44:33] you, and so you get to see those things.
[44:36] They already have a couple of scripts
[44:37] there that they could tweak and change a
[44:38] little bit. Do them each uh Star Wars
[44:41] vision style in different animated
[44:43] styles or something like that. It would
[44:44] be really cool.
[44:45] >> And the big event they will never do
[44:46] live action is Robert's Rebellion. And
[44:49] there's you could even go back with that
[44:50] and do um like the tournament where
[44:54] there was a knight in disguise who I
[44:56] think was probably Rhaegar and or no
[44:58] when Rhaegar took the favor of Lyanna
[45:00] and like there's all like all these
[45:02] little things that built up to the
[45:03] rebellion. I think it would be fun to
[45:04] see those nuances. So, and yeah, I
[45:06] thought they would do an anthology show
[45:07] a long time ago. I thought that would be
[45:08] the show after Game of Thrones. Mhm.
[45:10] >> Um, and then Dave M gave us five bucks
[45:12] and said, "If you're having difficulty
[45:14] identifying the sales, then showed then
[45:16] so did sheep stealer, the feral
[45:18] bastard." The feral bastard dragon.
[45:20] [laughter]
[45:21] I So, Harriet, we were talking about the
[45:24] show earlier. I love that they added
[45:27] this, you know, because originally it's
[45:29] nettles and, you know, Jace does die at
[45:30] the battle, but this idea of making it
[45:32] so personal and that Sheepsteeler isn't
[45:35] just feral, but you know, dragons
[45:37] attached to the emotions of their rider
[45:40] and she's [ __ ] terrified and that is,
[45:43] you know, she won't he won't obey her
[45:45] because her fear is being transferred to
[45:47] him and he's lashing out at everybody. I
[45:49] personally thought that change worked
[45:52] beautifully for the show. What what were
[45:53] your thoughts on Sheepsteeler?
[45:56] >> Um, I mean, I love like the design of
[45:59] Sheepsteeler. I think
[46:01] >> uh as as I said again in the video, I
[46:04] think uh it's really interesting that
[46:06] we've seen like dragons disobey their
[46:07] writers so many times in this show
[46:09] because that's not something that is
[46:11] ever
[46:12] >> it's always the kids. It never has come
[46:14] up in the uh in the book. I mean, it's
[46:16] partially we're hearing a history told
[46:18] many many years later. So, it's very
[46:19] possible that uh something like that did
[46:22] happen, but we've never heard about it.
[46:24] And I think it makes the dragons
[46:25] themselves more interesting. It's like
[46:27] it's not a you know, the dragons are
[46:30] obviously a lot of the times a metaphor
[46:32] for nuclear warfare. Uh but I think in
[46:35] that case it's like um but what if the
[46:38] warhead had a mind of its own also? Uh
[46:40] which is
[46:42] >> a little scary.
[46:44] >> Yeah. I mean it is basically when a
[46:45] machine when a weapon comes to life, you
[46:47] know, and has consciousness. Yeah.
[46:49] >> You know what it makes me think of,
[46:50] Harriet? You know the line I think you
[46:52] it was in our Easter egg video which is
[46:53] out now. Um you you go back and quote or
[46:56] maybe it was in our dragon video that
[46:57] came out before that where Tyrion says
[46:59] dragons are intelligent accord more
[47:01] intelligent than men according to some
[47:02] maesters, right? And they have this
[47:05] knowledge and I maintain that the
[47:07] existence of dragons and the reason the
[47:08] Targaryenss are even able to use them is
[47:10] because of deep magic tied to the Lord
[47:12] of Light and the Long Night and stuff
[47:13] like that. Um, but it makes me think
[47:16] about Drogon melting the iron throne and
[47:19] how people really pissed on that idea
[47:21] like, "Oh, is he understand symbolism?"
[47:24] Yes, I think he understood symbolism. I
[47:27] think he knew through telepathic
[47:28] connection that this throne is what he
[47:31] was helping Daenerys achieve and that
[47:33] when he melted it, he 100% knew what he
[47:37] was doing when he did it. And I think
[47:39] this show is continuing to support that
[47:40] by showing their independence.
[47:44] Yeah, maybe. I I uh I find it hard to
[47:46] come down at all on the side of like
[47:48] maybe Game of Thrones season 8 isn't
[47:50] actually that bad. [laughter] But um
[47:52] >> I think it's a logistical challenge and
[47:54] they ran out of time and the thing it's
[47:57] got it's got it.
[47:58] >> You're suggesting what you're suggesting
[48:00] is we need a look who's talking season
[48:02] where we hear the dragon's thoughts
[48:04] [laughter] and they're like, "Oh boy,
[48:06] get what this guy's doing." That's my
[48:09] dragon voice. I don't know.
[48:10] >> Yeah. Only if they all talk like that.
[48:11] That's the only way out. Yeah. Yeah.
[48:13] [laughter]
[48:14] >> I got to send a really quick message
[48:16] here. So, final thoughts. We're about to
[48:18] sign off. Um, Alex,
[48:20] out of 10, how many stars do you give
[48:22] this?
[48:23] >> Oh gosh, I didn't know we were doing
[48:24] that. I I'm going to give this episode a
[48:28] six. And I only say that as like I love
[48:30] the show and I love these shows and
[48:32] they're really high quality, so I'm
[48:33] going to grade it on a harsher scale.
[48:34] Six isn't even necessarily that bad, but
[48:36] I feel bad giving it. It's just this was
[48:39] not my favorite episode despite some big
[48:43] standout moments throughout. Uh having
[48:45] seen a little bit ahead without getting
[48:47] into spoilers. Uh it gets better in my
[48:49] opinion. Like exponentially better. Um
[48:52] >> you kids you kids ain't ready for
[48:54] Tumbleton. I'll tell you that. I don't
[48:55] know if it's this season or not, but
[48:56] that's a dinger. Har.
[48:59] >> So yeah.
[49:01] >> Uh I think for me I'd probably give it
[49:02] like a 8.5. Um I I agree. It's not like
[49:06] the best episode of the show or
[49:08] anything, but I'm just so happy House of
[49:10] the Dragon is back. [laughter]
[49:13] >> I think I, you know, my my points on
[49:15] this are pretty nitpicky as far as like,
[49:17] you know, why are the the bastard
[49:18] dialogue is kind of heavy-handed.
[49:20] There's no subtlety to it. It's like I
[49:22] want a castle, you know, and they're
[49:23] kind of laying he's the gruff one, and I
[49:25] would have liked to have seen a bit more
[49:26] shades there. But the scale of the
[49:28] battle of the gauntlet, and it makes
[49:29] sense what Cam said about it originally
[49:31] ending the last season, but the scale of
[49:33] that battle and I just think the
[49:34] addition of Raina riding Sheepsteeler
[49:36] and being such a [ __ ] and Jace being
[49:39] so dumb and all of these characters uh
[49:44] running into battle with glory on their
[49:46] mind and obsessing over something uh
[49:49] like what is her name again? I'm sorry,
[49:50] Harriet. The the pirate queen.
[49:52] >> Lowhar.
[49:53] >> Lowhar. Lowhar is the other great
[49:55] example of that. So there's a uniting
[49:56] theme in there. But I agree, we've had
[49:58] the triarchy for three seasons. It would
[50:00] have been nice if they were adapting
[50:02] source material to put Lowhar in much
[50:04] earlier or, you know, you use the crab
[50:06] feeder or whoever else like from those
[50:08] stories so it feels a little bit more
[50:09] united. But no, I I'd probably give it
[50:12] seven, seven and a half or eight because
[50:14] um I don't want this scale every time,
[50:16] but it was sure was a big ass giant fun
[50:19] to watch battle. Uh we've got another
[50:20] super chat here that I think we're going
[50:22] to sign off from Johnny Mashed potatoes.
[50:23] who gave us $2 and said, "Is Jared Leto
[50:26] to blame for the doom of Valyria?"
[50:30] [laughter] I can't blame You can't blame
[50:32] Masters of the Universe on Jar I'll
[50:33] blame anything on Jared Leto, but
[50:34] Masters of the Universe was not his
[50:36] fault. He was one of the best parts of
[50:37] it.
[50:37] >> I don't know. I could definitely picture
[50:40] Skeletor wandering around the burnt out
[50:42] remains of Valyria. Like, that's that
[50:44] picture is so clear. So, I don't want to
[50:46] rule it out is the thing.
[50:48] >> Or a side with Shadowlands. All right,
[50:50] we're going to have to sign off there.
[50:51] Oh [ __ ] Alex, are you still on hold?
[50:53] Are you good?
[50:53] >> Uh, yeah. Oh, no. Actually, um, my mom's
[50:55] here. Hello, mommy.
[50:57] >> Give her a kiss for me, will you? All
[50:59] right, we'll talk to you later. Just a
[51:01] sec.
[51:03] >> We didn't even get into how gross that
[51:06] was and how it was set up for so long.
[51:09] And that's all we got to say. That's
[51:11] that's We'll leave it there. Uh, thanks,
[51:12] Harriet. And you can find Harriet here
[51:14] on the channel. Alex is still here, by
[51:15] the way. Alex, I had to cut him off for
[51:17] the bit. Alex, you can find on the Comic
[51:19] Book Club podcast. Link for that is down
[51:21] below. Thanks so much, Alex.
[51:23] >> Thank you.
[51:24] >> And Harriet's on the channel here all
[51:26] the time writing stuff. Her Game of
[51:27] Thrones costume video is going to come
[51:28] out later. It's It's great. It's one of
[51:30] my favorite videos we've ever done. It's
[51:31] so well researched and so well done. So
[51:33] Harriet, thank you so much.
[51:35] >> Thank you.
[51:35] >> And we want to hear from you guys. Let
[51:37] me know your thoughts on the episode
[51:38] down in the comments below. We're on our
[51:39] free to join Discord server. And if it's
[51:41] your first time here, please subscribe,
[51:42] smash that bell for alerts, and don't
[51:43] forget to shop our Game of Thrones merch
[51:44] at our merch store. For Screen Crush,
[51:46] I'm Ron.
[51:49] [music]
[51:52] Hey.
[51:57] [music]