---
title: 'How to Make Money with Instagram, TikTok and YouTube? (Rafael Kiso) | JOTA JOTA PODCAST #87'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=43ZGtEyeFTM'
video_id: '43ZGtEyeFTM'
date: 2026-07-15
duration_sec: 312
---

# How to Make Money with Instagram, TikTok and YouTube? (Rafael Kiso) | JOTA JOTA PODCAST #87

> Source: [How to Make Money with Instagram, TikTok and YouTube? (Rafael Kiso) | JOTA JOTA PODCAST #87](https://youtube.com/watch?v=43ZGtEyeFTM)

## Summary

In this podcast episode, Rafael Kiso discusses the fundamental business model of social media platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube, emphasizing that understanding user retention is key to success. He explains that while platform formats and algorithms change, the core model of selling ads through user attention remains constant.

### Key Points

- **Fundamentals of Different Disciplines** [00:17] — Kiso notes that every field, from kickboxing to social media, has unchanging fundamentals that remain constant regardless of algorithm changes.
- **Social Media Business Model** [00:29] — The core business model of social media platforms is selling ads. Platforms need both a large user base and high user retention to maximize ad revenue.
- **Two Variables for Ad Sales** [01:10] — Platforms require two variables: number of users (audience size) and user retention (time spent on platform). Retention is critical because more time means more ad space.
- **User Numbers** [02:05] — Instagram has 125 million Brazilian users, TikTok 82 million, and YouTube over 130 million. These massive user bases are not the problem; retention is the battleground.
- **Retention Battle** [02:31] — TikTok's infinite feed creates high retention, causing Instagram to copy the format (Reels) to retain users. Content that helps retention is prioritized by algorithms.
- **Algorithm and Retention** [03:28] — Instead of trying to hack the algorithm, focus on creating content that retains users. Useful, valuable content retains; advertising typically reduces retention.
- **Advertising Trade-off** [04:13] — Advertising is necessary for brand recall and purchase intent, but it hurts retention. Keep your feed clean with valuable content and use advertising strategically without creating noise.
- **Constant Change in Formats** [05:05] — While the business model is stable, formats (like Reels, Stories) constantly change. Adapting to new formats is necessary, but the retention principle remains.

### Conclusion

Success on social media hinges on understanding that platforms prioritize user retention to sell ads. Creating content that retains attention is the unchanging strategy, while formats will continue to evolve.

## Transcript

but let's get to it. Is there anything you've noticed that's changing, and people have to adapt to it? And is there something that won't change despite all the changes? This always remains the same if people don't make
mistakes. Obviously, you have a fundamental from kickboxing, a fundamental from swimming, a fundamental from social media that, regardless of the algorithm, will always remain. And then there are those things that people have to pay attention to because they're
changing. It's a conceptual question. What will remain is a very simple understanding of the business model that these social media platforms have. What is their business model? Selling ads, right? How do
wait a minute. So, you have to master the business model because you might notice there are some social media platforms where you ask, "Would you pay to use Instagram?" Most people would probably
say yes, but in practice, they wouldn't pay. So, everyone Facebook for free, even though they have YouTube Premium, right? But the vast majority consume it for free. Why? Because their business model
is selling ads.  Okay, when we understand the business model of understand that there are two variables that allow them to sell ads. First, the number of users; they need to have an audience. And
don't have enough ad space. Right? It's no use having 125 million only one hour a day; you wouldn't have space to place ads there. So they need people all day long, right? So they need to retain the user, and what
person to go to a neighboring network, to leave. It seems like there are few links, that's why the caption doesn't have links, etc. It's not just Stories that have external links, but the objective fact is that when we understand the number
of users they have, that's not the problem, but the number of users, right? How many users do they have today? The target number of users, the entire high school target number is 2.9, and that's almost 50%.
almost 50%. Never in history has there been a product with so many users, right? But the fact is, TikTok has 82 million Brazilian users, Instagram has 125 million, YouTube...  If we count
active users, it's 120 million, but it exceeds 130 million Brazilian users. So yes, the first variable is that everyone has millions of users. The second variable, which is retention, is
retention, which is why the fight between TikTok and Instagram is happening. TikTok created a model where retention is absurd because it's an infinite feed. You go in to spend five minutes, and 15 minutes pass without you even noticing the video.
Instagram started seeing the numbers, right? " Wow, my retention is falling because people are spending more time there," creating the Rios format. So what I want to say is this: what doesn't change is that this model doesn't change. The
moment we understand that the model now has to help retain users, if on the network, that's the type of content they'll love to viralize, they'll content that doesn't help retain users, that 's the type of content that wo
a metric like watch time per user.  For example, retention can be the time, it can be, but the objective fact is that the social signals people give—watching, liking, commenting, wanting to
social signal to the algorithm. Okay, so retention means that people are paying attention, right? But when we understand that retention is the game, I do understand the inner workings of the algorithm. You realize that everyone gets caught up in this obsession,
right, trying to understand the algorithm's hacking? Just understand retention. If you help retain, you can have more success in this game. And help retain, right? For example, you give tips, all
example, you give tips, all your content is more useful, it's so with others, right? Now, when you advertise, you must have already tested it, it must plummet because advertising helps retain.
seconds to skip ads, right? On YouTube, so advertising doesn't help retain. Does that mean you should n't advertise? Of course not, because advertising is part of our positioning system: frequency,
brand recall, purchase intent. But you should reserve your advertising to do this through the system.  The media, and it doesn't stop somehow creating noise in your feed, so keep it as clean as possible with content that is
truly useful, that has value for people, that will transform something that meets what people are already looking for, their pains, their needs, because when a person sees it, they identify
with it, it retains, right? Now, when you advertise, it doesn't retain, so there are techniques, including advertising without delivering advertising, precisely to obviously retain first and then cut it off. So these are ways of
doing it, and this is something that will never change, it will never change. Now, one will never change, it will never change. Now, one thing that always changes is the formats.