---
title: 'How Small YouTubers Can Get Brand Deals w/ @CreatorWizard​'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=Kh4L7cfQP5M'
video_id: 'Kh4L7cfQP5M'
date: 2026-06-19
duration_sec: 0
---

# How Small YouTubers Can Get Brand Deals w/ @CreatorWizard​

> Source: [How Small YouTubers Can Get Brand Deals w/ @CreatorWizard​](https://youtube.com/watch?v=Kh4L7cfQP5M)

## Summary

This podcast episode debunks the myth that small YouTubers cannot secure brand deals. Host Travis and guest Justin (CreatorWizard) share strategies for creators of all sizes to attract sponsorships, emphasizing audience research, tailored pitches, and understanding brand objectives. Justin provides actionable frameworks like the ROPE pitching method and the ARC framework to help creators monetize their channels beyond AdSense.

### Key Points

- **Myth Busting: Small Creators Can Get Brand Deals** [0:00] — Justin and Travis challenge the belief that only large channels can secure sponsorships. They emphasize that even creators with 500 subscribers can attract brands by focusing on audience value and niche engagement.
- **Justin's Background and Journey** [1:00] — Justin shares his 15-year YouTube journey, starting with his wife's channel in 2009. He transitioned from medical devices to helping her with sponsorships, eventually earning over $5 million from 550+ deals and running an influencer marketing agency.
- **The Small Creator Myth and Mindset Shift** [7:00] — Justin explains that many creators think they need to wait until they are 'big enough' for brands to reach out. He shares the story of Dr. Alex, a veterinarian with a niche channel, who attracted high-value brand deals despite low view counts.
- **Audience Research: The Psychographic Survey** [10:00] — Justin introduces the concept of a psychographic research survey to understand audience demographics, problems, and brand preferences. This data helps creators pitch relevant brands and avoid generic outreach.
- **The ROPE Pitching Method** [15:00] — Justin outlines the ROPE method: Relevant (tie pitch to a brand's past campaign), Organic (link to existing content showing audience affinity), Proof (show past results), and Easy to Execute (make it simple for the brand to say yes).
- **Real-Time Pitch Example: National Geographic** [19:00] — Justin demonstrates a live pitch to National Geographic by scrolling their Instagram to find a relevant campaign (holiday gift guide). He shows how to craft a subject line and propose a collaboration with clear deliverables.
- **Media Kits: Dead or Alive?** [23:00] — Justin argues that media kits are less effective for cold outreach. He advises against attaching PDFs to emails and instead recommends using media kit elements in bespoke proposals after initial contact.
- **Sponsorship Continuum: Pitching Based on Channel Size** [28:00] — Justin explains that creators should adjust their pitch based on their subscriber count. Small creators can offer content creation services (e.g., making videos for the brand's channel) rather than just promotion.
- **Long-Form vs. Short-Form Sponsorships** [31:00] — Justin advises creators to monitor brand trends and audience consumption habits. He notes that brands are shifting budgets to short-form content (TikTok, YouTube Shorts) and creators should adapt accordingly.
- **Pricing: The ARC Framework and DO Rule** [33:00] — Justin introduces the ARC framework (Awareness, Repurposing, Conversions) to understand brand goals and the DO rule (Deliverables, Usage rights, Exclusivity) to price deals. He shares a negotiation tactic to get brands to reveal their budget range.
- **Sponsor Magnet Book and Final Inspiration** [41:00] — Justin promotes his book 'Sponsor Magnet', which details the EP sponsorship wheel framework. He leaves viewers with the message: 'You are in control as a creator. You do not need anyone's permission to collaborate with brands.'

### Conclusion

Small YouTubers can secure brand deals by focusing on audience value, using research-driven pitches, and understanding brand objectives. Justin's frameworks (ROPE, ARC, DO) provide a systematic approach to turning sponsorships into a reliable revenue stream.

## Transcript

hey welcome back to the only podcast
that tries to get you paid today that's
what we're trying to do today you
thought you were too small to make a
full-time living on YouTube but we're
gonna bust that myth and I got a great
friend here who's gonna help me do it
his name is Justin how you doing Justin
more in the house yo Travis I am stoked
to be here and you better believe we are
going to make people some green today
all right we're doing it let's go I love
it listen if you're new to the podcast
we're here to help you grow your YouTube
channel and in this particular case help
grow your business because ultimately
and I've gotten a lot of emails from
youall y'all want to be full-time but
you can't be full-time on just AdSense
or at least you can but it's not very
easy it's probably not the best way to
go 100% true so um Justin tell us a
little bit about yourself I know who you
are and anyone who's really been around
the kind of the the growth game knows
who you are and even a lot of creators
know who you are but there's going to be
a lot of people who are listening to
this podcast uh who've never seen you
before and don't really know who you are
and what you do so give him the Spiel
who are you all right let's talk street
cred uh I've been a YouTuber for 15
years Travis my wife started her first
YouTube channel yeah her first YouTube
channel was in 2009 um and this was way
back in the day for those us OG dinosaur
creators can remember this was right
when the partner program was starting
and it was application only at the time
it was not you know not everyone could
get in in fact my wife got rejected
three times trying to apply and so it
was not this like rocket ship to success
it was it was a very circuitous path but
basically what happened man was I was in
medical devices I was not in front of
the camera in the beginning I was
helping my wife April behind the scenes
um and when basically what happened
early on was that Brands did start to
reach out to her but it wasn't offering
to pay her it was offering to give her
free stuff and she was like let's go
right we were in like our early 20s like
didn't have a lot of money and so for
her you know she was talking about like
skincare and beauty and cosmetics and
things like that and so I mean you know
any of us who have a partner who is into
that type of thing know that that stuff
is expensive so she was stoked to get
this stuff for free and that went on for
years dude it wasn't like we wised up
after like a month it was like no three
years plus we were like yeah all the
free stuff send it right um and so what
happened was I decided to go back to
school uh at night after work to get my
MBA and I started taking these classes
around advertising and negotiation and
marketing and things like that and just
the gear started to turn dude I would
see hundreds of comments on all of her
videos like
hey thank you so much for telling me
about this brand I just went to the
store and got it or oh I've never heard
of this brand thank you so much for
telling me about it and I I went to
April one day and I said honey I feel
like we're getting the short end of the
stick here like a free $30 bag of potato
chips is not adequate compensation for
the value you're bringing to these
Brands and so I said okay the next brand
that reaches out ask if they have a
collaboration budget to work with you
she's like there's no way any brand is
going to pay me for this I said come on
just try it so sure enough next brand
that reached out um she asked that typed
in the email and they said right away oh
yeah sure if you can talk about us in
two videos a month we will pay you $700
monthly hey and our minds were blown
dude because I bet a lot of people
listening to this who may still be in
kind of your full-time job you're kind
of side hustling right now you want to
be a full-time Creator can appreciate
this where it's like you know every two
weeks or whatever you're getting paid
the same amount of money right maybe
once a year you get a 3% cost of living
raise whatever right but this was the
first time and that was us that was us
she was a preschool teacher at the time
I was had the corporate job and so that
was us and so this was the first time in
our lives where we were like wow there's
like ways to make money in this world
that are kind of uncapped and so our
instant mind was our our our minds
instantly went to like okay how can we
find 10 more Brands just like this right
and so this led us down the past over
the ne over the next basically 10 years
uh doing over 550 sponsorships
personally my wife and I making over $5
million doing it so it was our primary
revenue stream for many many years as
creators so what happened then is like
all this experience doing it ourselves
but in 2015 I said to April I said look
things are going really well for us on
YouTube now but people are not going to
watch us forever you know by this time
we had a cooking channel we had a vlog
Channel as well so we were doing all
sorts of videos tons pumping out tons of
content but I was like you know as you
know like especially in the family Vlog
space which is kind of where we grew a
lot like it's very much driven by like
life milestone and like after you buy
the house after you have the kids after
you have all these things it's like okay
well what are people GNA watch now we're
not gonna keep having kids just not
saying not saying anyone does that not
gonna not gonna not gonna call and say
any name um but I was like okay we got
to diversify our income kind of and so
this is what led me to start an
influencer marketing agency basically to
get deals for other creators and so I
ultimately ran that Agency for seven
years paid out millions of dollars to
other creators and the difference here
Travis was that I was kind of in the
boardrooms now with these big Brands and
these big advertisers where they were
saying hey we don't want to just pay you
April and Justin 5K 10K over here we
want to spend a million dollars across
200 creators what platform should we be
on who should be we be working with tell
us about what you think the strategy
should be and that was a totally
different conversation and so when I
started educating creators about five
years ago on the process of of
sponsorship strategy it was these to the
yin and the Yang of my personality of
understanding both sides of it this is
where it all comes from I love that and
I know so by the way for people that are
listening and watching for people are
like okay this sounds almost too good to
be true I can tell you specifically uh
that uh Jeff El Hefe reviews who works
here at vid IQ and has been a friend of
mine for many years actually has gone
through U Justin's program and again I
don't have to say this this is a God's
honest truth and he will tell you this
himself made a huge difference he said
within the first sponsorship deal was
able to basically pay for the entire
program like he it made a huge
difference for him and um he's been been
singing your Praises ever since so that
was enough for me I've known Jeff for
many years uh you know I I have you know
innate trust with him we've talked
together before and I I believe in what
your story is and what I think the value
that can come from the creators who
watch this channel now let's start with
a couple of things um I there's a story
that I think is really cool that I'm
going to want you to do later about the
um the cruises and stuff I remember that
story was a great story but before that
I know that a lot of people that are
listening to the podcast and watching
right now are very small creators and
they think that what you're saying is
great and like that's fantastic that
sounds amazing you made a bunch of money
and you've done great things for
creators but they must be like 50,000
subscribers and higher and stuff like
that and there also will be creators
that are like well I don't necessarily
review things how does this apply to me
so we we're going to try to fix both of
those questions before we get into the
depth of like some of the strategies and
then ultimately at the very end of this
where you can find some documentation an
actual thing we're going to talk about
later where you can just buy it and just
know um but let's start with like the
the small Creator thing where and when
should you start this some people say
well I have like a th000 subscribers or
I have 500 subscribers I'm still too
small like where do you start do you at
first you said that you were taking like
free stuff but you said maybe that's not
necessarily the right thing but for a
smaller Creator is that the way to get
your foot in the door like what is your
strategy there so I think the biggest
myth is that you have to wait to get big
enough until and then Brands will just
reach out to you if I build it they will
come this is the mindset that a lot of
creators have especially because maybe
they did reach out to a brand or sponsor
one time and the brand came back and
said oh we only work with people with
10,000 subscribers minimum or something
so come back to us after that so that is
a real thing like I just want to
empathize with everyone we had that
experience grow you know coming up as
well and so I I very much appreciate and
empathize with that however what happens
oftentimes is that people hear that and
they think well I guess that's what
every brand thinks right when that is
absolutely not the case there are a lot
of Brands who have never worked with a
single Creator who had never worked with
a single YouTuber or influencer because
they just think that maybe they're too
small as a brand no Creator would ever
want to work with them what types of
Partners would they ever even work with
and so I want to like Hammer this home
by sharing a story so one of my coaching
clients her name is Dr Alex she has a
YouTube channel she has a podcast she
has a LinkedIn presence and her business
Travis is called digital pathology Place
she's a veterinarian okay oh and so
she's talking she's talking all about
this topic this very very hyper Niche
topic around digital pathology she's not
getting tens of thousands hundreds of
thousands of views she's getting
hundreds or thousands but who is in her
audience it's the Physicians it's the
lab techs it's the people at the
biopharmaceutical companies right and so
it's a very very specific engaged
audience and so if you think about the
medical device companies the tooling
companies the biotech companies they're
sitting here thinking okay we've got $20
million to spend in our marketing budget
we have have to like speak to these
doctors speak to these people at these
clinics how are we going to do this well
we could maybe advertise in this
prehistoric trade magazine that sits in
the doctor's office and like it's
$111,000 for a full page ad but we've
done that for 20 years is that effective
I don't know but we've always done it
this is what they're thinking right and
they're thinking okay well maybe we
could run some other types of
advertising oh you know what maybe we
could go out there and find some of the
key opinion leaders who are starting to
develop an online audience around this
Niche topic and regardless of the fact
of whether she's getting hundreds
thousands of views doesn't matter it's
she's the person how can we leverage
this person's name and likeness hey heck
why don't we fly Dr Alex to our
conference to our Factory to a tour of
our facility meet our key opinion
leaders the people in the R&D team so
everyone listening does that sound like
a normal brand deal a 90 second
integration on your YouTube channel no
not really and so this is the big
mindset shift especially if you're
someone who has a very specific Niche I
actually think there's more
opportunities for you because of this
reason that's that's really great and I
actually have a story to tell similar to
this there was a Creator I was coaching
a couple years ago um and the case in
point he had his was very specific it
was like UK real estate taxes like
something like that like it was very
specific and he was getting just maybe
100 or so views per video we worked for
only like two or months or so we
increased his views to like three to 500
and he said I can't take any more views
because everything in my business has
now expanded exponentially it's right
because we were are targeting not
thousands of views but the right views
and what you just said is exactly that
if you get the right people watching
your content a whole world opens up for
you that even some larger creators don't
necessarily get opportunities for dude
look just look at me I am a sponsorship
coach if you go and look at my YouTube
Channel right now I'm not getting tens
of thousands of views on average I'm
getting hundreds or maybe thousands but
these are all creators who are having
this very specific issue with
sponsorships they're understanding how
do I price this how do I behave on a
phone call what do when the brand says
this to me what do I how do I what do I
say in return and so yeah I'm not
crushing it with Topline views but
that's not the goal and so I think
another deeper maybe mindset shift for
people listening or watching is like
what is the purpose behind what you're
doing with your YouTube channel it it
can't in my opinion if you're trying to
build a business behind it it can't just
be views for views sake maybe it's to
drive more leads for your business or
for your coaching practice or whatever
type of business that you have you just
have to be very intentional about it
about what you're doing I love that I
love that so let's think about um some
of the let's come up with like one or
two creators that are like okay that
sounds amazing but I still don't
understand who I could pitch my channel
to of course there's Gamers which we
have Gamers of course but we also have
people have different lifestyle channels
um we've had some emails from people who
have lifestyle channels and even just
interesting things like about science
and such so if we were to take for
example let's just come up with a random
like okay let's say I have a a Channel
about science in general like I I like
to talk about planets or something like
that who would I even think about that
that might be interested in in getting a
hold of me or or who do I reach out to
to say hey I have this you know this
core audience that absolutely loves my
content they come to every single video
or whatever it is um but I don't know
who to go to I can't go to Downey like
what am I doing can I get Coca-Cola what
what are we doing so this is another big
mist M AK that creators make is they sit
alone in their room in a vacuum and they
think who would want to work with me I
love that and what they think is they
think well it's the brands that I
authentically love and use oh the video
equipment the camera equipment you know
whatever yeah if it's a science nich
it's these little you know cool sets
model sets that I build for planetarians
whatever it's like the things that I
love right which is a flawed assumption
you are assuming that your audience will
also like those things and that's not
actually not accurate this is actually
why a lot of sponsorships don't perform
well where you think oh yeah this is a
slam dunk you do not involve your
audience whatsoever in this process of
understanding like oh is this actually
going to go over well with them um and
so I actually encourage people to not
try to ideate brands that you could
collaborate with in a vacuum you
actually need to be involving your
audience in this conversation uh and so
I I encourage I talk about in my book
sponsor magnet what they this process of
doing something called a psychographic
research survey so you're actually
putting a poll out out on your YouTube
Community tab where you're trying to
understand something like what types of
jobs do you have are you married do you
have kids what's keeping you up at night
what problems do you have what types of
Brands and products and services are you
using and loving right now um and so
this is just like a small sampling of
questions you could do this in a Google
form you could do this in a type form
survey if you have a newsletter for
example you could do this uh with
Instagram stories your YouTube Community
tab right so there's a lot of different
ways to start extracting more colorful
texture behind what's going on with your
audience and think about this so let's
go back to that Science Channel example
let's say that this science channel did
this uh a series of post polls on their
YouTube Community tab over a couple
weeks and they realized like wow I
didn't understand that 30% of my
audience is aspiring astronomers they
actually want to go to school they're un
they're in high school and they want to
go to the top program you know for
astrology or whatever they're actually
vying to do this as as a profession you
know what I should do I should go out
there and Pitch the top astronomy
school to do a partnership um because I
realize that in my audience it's a bunch
of high schoolers trying to get into
this this these types of programs think
about how much better of a pitch that is
now Travis it's not oh let me go to you
I have this cool Channel where I talk
about stuff it's no I have a a bunch of
high schoolers who are actively saying
that they're trying to decide what
programs to go to let's put your program
in front of them not just that but my
whole audience right and so this is an
absolute GameChanger uh uh gamechanging
thing to do because now you're no longer
scared to do the partnership because
it's like you're not worried oh people
are going to call me a sellout or you
know just trying to line your pockets
it's like no you told me you were having
this issue hey look at this poll and I
went out there and sought this
opportunity for you gosh ah mic drop
moment okay let's talk a little bit
about uh so I'm going to do um I want
everyone to check out sponsor maget
we're talk more in depth about it a
little bit later that's just a little
tease that's what we call Little teaser
in the business a little tease um we're
going to talk a little bit about some
things in the book but before I do that
um so for someone who's listening to
this and going okay you've given me a
little bit of courage to reach out to a
brand 30,000 foot view what type of and
you know I'm sure the book and
everything goes into more detail of how
to write it and everything but 30,000
foot view what are the things you're
trying to get across in that first email
and what's the best way to approach and
who do you kind of look to to approach
here's what not to do bro it's not to
it's not to make it about yourself this
is what every Creator does they reach
out hi my name is Justin I have x000
subscribers I'm getting this many views
on average or per month here's a bit
about my audience demographics I drove a
bunch of sales for this other brand blah
blah blah blah blah I'd love to figure
out a way to collaborate and so the
brand receives this email number one
they don't know who you are there's lots
of people on the internet on YouTube who
have lots of subscribers and followers
and viewership so you're a dime a dozen
sorry even if you have 100 ,000 200,000
doesn't matter that that is a
commoditized approach to try to pit
yourself they don't care just about the
highle metrics okay um and they don't
know how to collaborate with you they
don't know you you're saying like let's
figure out a way to collaborate and
you're thinking this person's thinking
oh more work for me I'm so busy I have
no idea who this person is so you know
what I'm gonna delete this email or I'm
not gonna respond and and so it's The
Long Dark Night of the Soul you get sad
you're staring in the mirror and you're
like you're never going to pitch again
don't ever do that right but but you're
not GNA want to do that right because
and this is why a lot of creators stop
pitching because they convince
themselves that it doesn't work when in
reality it absolutely does but you have
to ensure that you're saying something
that will get them excited help them
understand how you can serve them and so
the big flip here is it's not about you
you you it's about them them them and so
the way in which you do this is uh a
process of research where you're
actually looking at the types of content
that they're posting on a platform like
Instagram for example hey we're sitting
here in time of recording February we
want to work with this brand right here
well I'm not going to look at what
they're posting right now that's too
late if I was trying to forge a
partnership for winter Springtime
whatever I need to know what what what
kind of campaigns were they running last
summer let me scroll back on their
Instagram and see what they were doing
in June or something and they're they
have the hashtag science ABS maybe not
the hashtag science abs for for the
summer um you know what the subject line
of that email is When You Reach Out
Travis it's hasag summer science abs in
2025 question
mark That's the subject line because
they understand they ran that campaign
so so basically to to distill this down
it's it's something that I call the Rope
pitching method so r o p so R stands for
Relevant your pitch has to be relevant
to a campaign that they're either
running or have run in the past okay o
stands for organic meaning that you can
tie your pitch back to organic content
that you've already published that
illustrates that your audience has an
affinity for their brand not you your
audience has an affinity for them P
stands for proof so you can show how
you've helped others achieve results and
E stands for easy to execute when they
say yes so let's actually um go pull
this example here so it's the relevancy
of the science ABS thing we're just
making this up obviously actually you
know what should we do it should we just
real quickly call an audible here and do
a a pivot what if we tried to pitch like
National Geographic or something I love
for this channel should we do this okay
so so what I'm going to do right now now
um and you know what I'm going to do I'm
going to share my screen here if that's
cool I'm running an audible here do it
um I'm going to share my screen and
we're just going to walk through this
okay all right I love this real time so
for those you listening to audio podcast
you got to go over to the YouTube
channel watch this this is you would
have to pay for this normally you just
you're paying with your time right now
you're paying with your time Justin
doesn't have to do this I don't have to
do this but I feel like these types of
working examples are more helpful
sometimes you know um okay so let me
share my entire screen screen two okay
so thumbs up here we're seeing the
Instagram we're feeling good okay so
what I have done people who are
listening uh again come over to Youtube
it'll be better but um so what I've done
is I've pulled up National Geographics
Instagram page right because what I care
about is I want to know like what types
of things are they posting about so that
example that I shared of like
understanding what types of things were
they posting last summer let's say I'm
going to scroll scroll scroll back they
post a lot of things so we'll see how
long this takes us so January it might
take us a little while but I'm just
trying to get an understanding like what
are the types of things are they posting
are they posting exclusively stuff from
their photographers are they repurposing
creators content in here it seems like
sometimes they do a lot of content that
just has like some text over it okay so
this is this is December um okay so uh
okay so here's uh medical B 2024 medical
breakthroughs this is interesting to me
um what I want to know
is let's see here uh okay so here we go
okay so here here's a good one it's
going to take a while to scroll back to
last summer but here's a good one um so
on December 10th of 2024 uh let's say
we're trying to pitch National
Geographic for a holiday campaign they
have this thing here that says their
holiday gift guide for anyone who loves
travel this is like a a big thing that
they're trying to drive towards right
and you better believe that on their
website they probably are doing
affiliate links here look so you say Nat
G will earn a commission for certain
purchases on the bottom here right and
so this is an important thing to them
right and so your pitch to them is if
you're trying to pitch them it's Nat Geo
holiday gift guide in 2025 question mark
you say at the top of this pitch you say
hey I saw that you were doing this gift
guide this seems like a really cool
thing and my audience of science
officient AOS or travel officient AOS or
whatever is going to really enjoy this
and then you link a post where you talk
about your gift guide from last year if
you did it where you say hey click
through see what people were saying
about this really into this and the the
really important thing here Travis is
that if you don't have a relevant piece
of content that would be that would work
right here you make it in advance of the
pitch I love that so it serves your
audience on the one hand it's not like
it's a not useful piece of content it's
still GI guys still going to serve them
but but you also know that you're going
to use this in your pitch for Nat Geo in
three weeks okay and then the next part
of this pitch is hey I would love to
help spread the word about this in the
following ways I will do three
integrated YouTube videos I will give
you uh I can turn around the first asset
within 10 days I will cut down some of
these assets for you to repurpose for
paid advertising for 3 months right
happy to share some results of I've
worked with XYZ brand over here are you
free on Thursday at 10 A.M to talk about
this wow that's the pitch
powerful right and so do you see what
the the most important thing I want
people to take away from this is that
how long did this take us Travis I mean
literally this was real time this was
like two minutes this took us two
minutes minutes so a lot of people think
that this is this overwhelming process
of like I don't know what the what types
of Brands to work with I don't know what
they're interested in no you look at
their Instagrams you look at what their
director of marketing is posting on
LinkedIn you look at their job boards
bro they oh they got a they were just
recruiting for an influencer marketing
manager three months ago sure let me go
read that job description and see all
the things they need help with Wow right
that's fire yeah incredible well let's
talk a little bit about the book because
there's some questions about uh some of
the things you said in there which is
great again uh there'll be links in the
description to show notes uh we'll get
again a little bit deeper about what the
book is in a minute but there is Jen
wanted me to ask you specifically
because she read the first part um where
there's something called a Media Kit for
those who don't know media kits are
generally speaking this thing that kind
of shows your proof of what you've done
in the past YouTube actually has one
integrated and that sort of thing but um
I do want to ask you that she said in
the beginning of the book kind of talks
about how these are dead which is when I
was like huh what are you talking about
Willis what are you talking about all
right so two pieces of data here one an
anecdotal piece of data of the last 100
deals that my wife and I have done only
less than five have asked to see a Media
Kit so brands are are just relying on it
less I would say in terms of
understanding how you can serve them um
but the more useful exercise I believe
so first of all I do think the process
of creating a media kit is helpful in so
far as it makes you stop and think about
your creator identity who H how am I not
only serving my audience but how could I
potentially serve prospective brand
Partners right so if you have to sit and
think about what is my oneliner I call
it in the book your STP your surprising
transformative promise what is my STP
that I you know a brand reads that that
oneliner in my YouTube about section or
my on a social media platform and they
instantly understand wow everyone in
Justin's audience has the problem our
product solves that's what you're trying
to accomplish with your oneliner and if
you can't say that if you can't rattle
off that oneliner in 10 seconds that's a
problem because if you ever get on a
phone call with a brand or a a brand is
trying to push back on rates that you're
providing to them if you don't have a
succinct narrative about why you're
different about why you they should pay
you two or three times as much as this
Creator over here who quoted them less
when they're trying to Gaslight you
right you have to be you have you have
to be able to tell that story and so the
act of putting together a Media Kit is
useful the problem is is that the the
problem I have with them is that people
use them as a crutch they make it once
and then they say they pitch a brand and
then they okay just see my Media Kit
attach and then they attach the PDF and
they mail it in and they they copy and
paste the same pitch to a 100 different
brands and then they wonder why isn't
anyone responding to me right and so
well first of all quick tactical thing
never ever ever attach a PDF to a cold
email because that Brand's corporate
firewall probably blocked your email
because you're an unknown sender and
it's not even going to get through so
the reason that they didn't respond may
have just been because you attached to
BDF anyways I've got a lot of little
these tactical things as well um but but
the better use of the Media Kit in my
opinion is you actually keep that to
your chest that information and you
actually put that into a bespoke custom
proposal so a lot of the same elements
that you have in your Media Kit can be
very useful after you have an initial
Discovery call or interaction engagement
over email with the brand where you
actually ascertain some of their
business objectives and then you say hey
this was great I'm going to put together
a proposal now and a lot of those same
elements that you have in the media kit
are great uh inclusions in your uh in
your proposal so you've got case studies
you've got you know information about
yourself information about your channels
but really at the end of the day it's
about them it's about how you can serve
them in fact like the the I'll just like
kind of behind the scenes here like page
number one of every proposal that I send
out is what I
heard that's page number one it's a
regurgitation of exactly what the brand
told me on the call or over email
because what happens Travis is that they
take this proposal and they send it
around to other people who weren't on
the call their boss if it's an agency
they send it to their client and so this
person who's probably the decision maker
not them it's this other person here
they need to feel good what that this
person that they're about to pay 10 20
grand or $500,000 whatever the amount is
understands the business objective right
and so it's it's your there's all these
little things that you can do to
optimize and increase your chances of
getting on the radar attracting Brands
but a Media Kit in my opinion is not one
of them I love that uh okay a couple
more questions before we kind of dive
into the book a little bit more um how
many Subs do I need to start we kind of
briefly touched on that in the beginning
but if you have 500 who are you pitching
to and what are you pitching at that
point are you saying listen I can just I
just help help I I know you talked about
value which I think is important but
there is I and well I know I'm going to
get emails about this next week I know
for a fact I'm too small people are not
going to look at my email like how do I
make guys first of all you buy a sponsor
magnet and then you write the email
based on that but besid from that how do
you get over that and go okay I'm at 500
subscribers I'm strong enough to go
ahead and and Pitch myself somebody like
what what's the deal I have a video on
my YouTube channel called how to get
sponsorships with zero subscribers oh do
it okay link that because because I
obviously it's hyperbolic but I talk
about I talk about something called the
sponsorship Continuum is a very
important concept so when you were in
the beginning and you're at the very
outset of your creator Journey as a
YouTuber um let's be real here if you're
getting if you have couple hundred Subs
you're getting you know 100 average
views per video
um if you were to reach out to a brand
and say hey let me talk about you on my
YouTube channel they're going to take
one look at your channel and be like not
really going to move the needle for us
and let's just be real here that that
that's a normal thing and you you
shouldn't get upset at the at the
company or the brand for that however if
you looked at this a bit differently and
thought okay what if I actually change
the positioning of this pitch a bit
where let me actually do a holistic
audit of the Brand's presence on the
internet let me go take a look at their
blog do they even have one let me go
take a look at their podcast did they
have a podcast let me go take a look at
their YouTube channel oh all they're
posting is their 30C tv ads lots of
brands do that right so that's not gonna
work on YouTube right let me go take a
look at their their social media are
they posting stuff on social media right
and so you do this big kind of uh
overarching analysis and you come to
them and you say hey look um love your
brand you know big fan um I actually
think you could be telling your brand
story in a more compelling way I would
actually love to create some content for
you on autopilot I'll make 5 10 videos a
month post it on your YouTube channel
embed it on your blog use it for paid
advertising and oh by the way go take a
look at my YouTube channel because that
is my
portfolio so what your pitching has to
change based on where you're at in your
journey and you know what the beautiful
part about this pitch Travis is that
your rate the amount that you could
charge for something like that is
completely detached from how many
subscribers or viewers you have because
that's not what pitching exactly right
and so let's say that you grow a little
bit now you move along the sponsorship
Continuum and now let's say you're
you're bigger now you're getting
thousands of views on average more
subscribers maybe what you pitch them is
a combination a combo of content for
that that you create for them uh maybe
it's some Consulting that you do to help
them understand this the social media
landscape and yeah maybe actually
posting now on your platforms starts
becoming a little bit more meaningful
now you get to the far end of this
Continuum where you're crushing it right
you're getting tens of thousands of
views on average hundreds of thousands
yeah the thrust of your can be let me
talk about you on my platform it's going
to be very meaningful for you right and
so I think it's it's just understanding
where you're at is going to really be be
very helpful to orient you based on kind
of who you should pitch and when that
whole like let me do some of this stuff
for you is so accurate like I've worked
with Brands and people who've done this
and it works you'd be surprised at all
these companies that are clueless on how
to do anything on YouTube including big
Brands and they see a YouTuber who does
it all the time and they're like yeah
sure dude I mean that'd be fine we'd
love to work with you understand it but
even if you're just like let me just
jump on a call and just get to know who
I am and I'm gonna teach you a little
bit about how to do things on YouTube
you never know what door that could open
that alone open a door so so many
creators think that brands have
everything figured out they've got the
marketing staff they've hiring the
agencies like of course they they get it
right what what type of value could I
possibly provide to them dude I've been
in these meetings these PE these Brands
they have these massive six-figure
budgets and they're like Justin what
should we do too I'm just like wow you
really don't know like like for real you
and so again like you got to get rid of
this impostor syndrome if you're
listening or watching this and thinking
what could I possibly uh you know teach
these Brands but you have to ship this
mindset away from like um feeling as
though you're just a Creator you're not
just a Creator you can also serve as a
consultant to these Brands all right two
more questions and then we're going to
just talk about the book and and end out
of here Longs versus shorts how does
that work like like how do you are they
the pitch the same pitch is one easier
to pitch than the other what's the deal
there dude it's all about what the brand
is trying to accomplish if they believe
that their product or service can be
accurately represented or demonstrated
in a short form fashion then maybe
that's something that they want to do or
maybe they're trying to attract a
different type of demographic maybe a
younger demographic who is primarily
consuming content on Tik Tok or YouTube
shorts or Instagram reels or something
like that maybe that's going to be their
primary strategy dude I talk with so
many creators who are in my DMs in my
inbox all the time that says man Justin
what is going on I was absolutely
crushing it during the pandemic with
long form integrated YouTube videos and
it fell off the cliff I had brands in my
DMs or in my inbox every day what
happened 2023 2024 hit and like it fell
off the cliff it's because this is a
real thing that Brands started
reallocating some of their influencer
marketing budgets to short form content
to Tik Tok to YouTube shorts to
Instagram reals and so you really do if
if sponsorships are a significant part
of your Revenue stream you absolutely
need to be kind of taking a pulse check
here every six months every 12 12 months
and being like okay let me just
understand here not only number one are
the brands that I usually work with
starting to advertise I'm seeing them
advertise with other creators on short
form that's an important like data point
also is my audience starting to consume
content on short form or learning or
being entertained by short form content
as well I I I think this two-part
litness test is very useful to try to
make a determination of where you should
invest in terms of new content formats
as a Creator all right right last
question and I know I'm going to get
this question because I personally as a
content creator have gotten this
question from other content creators and
I never have a good answer for this and
then I'm goingon to tell a real quick
story about what is I'm G ask the
question then I'm going to tell you my
story how much do you charge let me
explain my litness test for whether or
not I've asked to charge the right thing
there was a this wasn't even that long
ago uh there was a I get sponsorship
offers quite a bit in my inbox and I
ignore most of them there was one that
was kind of interesting to me and was
like but I'm I'm also kind of lazy so I
don't like to do these little videos and
stuff so I threw out a number that I
thought they would say no
to they replied back in about five
minutes saying yes and then at that
moment I knew I did not ask for enough
if any brand immediately says yes you
didn't ask for enough and I think Justin
knows this better than
anybody bro they could have at least
scheduled their response for like a
couple hours later to not give you that
not give you that that uh pit in your
stomach I can hear the sucker coming
through my my head it was was in all
right um I apologize or maybe I don't
apologize but I got to get a a bit into
the weeds here about why this is
important for for people to understand
so there's two buckets that you need to
consider when it comes to your pricing
okay the first over here is called The
Arc framework understanding Brand's
goals and the other is the do rule due
understanding the deliverables the usage
rights and the exclusivity so let's talk
about the arc framework first so uh
first of all a lot of people do not even
Factor this in at all to their pricing
they're trying to evaluate how much they
should charge in a vacuum they say oh
this is what my average viewership is
and they look up some calculators online
that are trash that are only evaluating
again like how what their engagement
rate is and all this stuff that yes it's
important but it's it's only 50% of it
so let me explain so when a brand
decides that they want to run a campaign
with the Creator they have three goal
types it could be one two or all three
of them so a in the arc framework is
awareness so the primary reason that
they want to hire you Travis is to
spread the word about this new product
Oh they've got this new AI feature that
they've invested a ton of money into and
they want everyone to know about it or
maybe they were only available in the US
now they're available in the UK that is
an awareness campaign R in the arc
framework is repurposing this is where
going back to the sponsorship Continuum
where the primary reason that they want
to collaborate with you is to take the
content that you generate and use it in
other ways put on their website put it
on their social media use it for paid
advertising Etc the C in the arc
framework is conversions that's where
they care about sales right app
downloads software trial signups
something attributable and measurable
and the reason that you need to be
asking a brand what success would look
like if you were to collaborate is that
your pricing has to change let me
explain by working backwards so let's
say that you are negotiating with a
brand who says that they have a
conversion focused metric right that
they're trying to drive sales so what's
likely happening is this contact has
what's called a CPA metric that they are
beholden to a cost per acquisition
metric meaning that okay they say okay
if we hire Travis to do a integrated
YouTube video talking about us he on
average gets 10,000 views per video
whatever I don't know what you get I'm
just easy M 10,000 views on average
right of the 10,000 views we are going
to consum conservative conservatively
assume that 10% of those viewers are
going to click the link in the
description box so that's a th000 people
that land on that landing page of the a
thousand people we calculate 25% are
going to sign up for free trial that's
250 people of the 250 people that sign
up we guess about 20% of people are
going to convert to a paid plan so
that's 50 people we know that our
software cost $10 a month and on average
people stick around for 10 months that's
$100 of lifetime value 10 months time
$10 so 50 c paying customers times $100
$5,000 that's the max they're going to
pay Travis but in reality they don't
want to pay you 5,000 because that's the
break even right they want to turn a
profit that's the whole reason that
they're doing influencer marketing and
so they want to pay you a half a third a
fourth maybe less of that depending on
their risk tolerance right so the reason
that it's so difficult oftentimes to to
negotiate with a brand who has a
conversion focused metric is because of
this they cannot exceed this kind of
napkin math they're held to by their
boss or by their client internally
contrast that with an awareness focused
campaign what are the metrics that the
brand is using to measure this views
engagement comments right this person
this contact does not has have their
boss breathing down their neck and being
like how many sales did you drive with
that collaboration with Travis no it's
hey did we spread the word hopefully
right all the all the you know signs are
pointing to yes right and so you're
negotiating leverage in an awareness
focused campaign absolutely Ely
skyrockets and so it's just a very very
important thing to understand so quickly
that's one bucket is understanding the
Brand's objectives the second one is the
do rule due so deliverables do they want
an integrated video or a dedicated video
that's an important thing to for you to
understand right in terms of how much
time you're having to invest in this
type of thing um usage rights this is
something a lot of people creators don't
consider again do they want to take your
content run paid advertising with it
embed it on their website and for how
long do they want to do that last one is
exclusivity the E is exclusivity are
they saying hey you cannot work with any
of our competitors for a certain
duration that represents a direct
opportunity cost dollars out of your
pocket uh if one of their competitors
approached you six month you know year
down the line dude I coached a Creator
who agreed to five years of exclusivity
for a free mattress whoa no free
mattress and they did not understand
what they had agreed to when they signed
that signed this contract for the free
mattress so like this has real world
real life implications for you and your
business so I understand yeah Justin I
get it do rule Arc framework that's
helpful how much should I charge Justin
I know you're thinking that okay so I've
got I've got a quick and dirty ad piece
of advice to kind of wrap this up okay
um when you have that initial Discovery
call with the brand what oftentimes
happen is you have this great Rapport
you ask the questions and then at the
very end what do they do Tris they say
okay so yeah like roughly what do you
charge ballpark like what do you what do
you charge for this type of thing and
what most people do is they stutter they
stammer and they go a thousand they just
like they and then they like cry later
in the shower right yeah yeah um so
instead of doing that don't do that you
say hey this was so useful thank you so
much for all this you know information I
need to think about this a little bit
more and I'm going to come back to you
with a proposal i' I'd love to do this
and usually what I what I do when I put
these proposals together is I'm going to
put together three to four different
packages of how we could bring this
partnership to life do you have a sense
bran do you have a sense of what I
should set those three to four tiar at
from a budget feasibility
perspective and then you shut up you
lean into the silence this is very
different than saying what's your budget
because when you say what's your budget
they don't want to tell you oh we don't
know we don't we don't you you tell us
we don't really know but when you give
them a range the ability to give you a
range they now feel like they have some
wiggle room some flexibility when
they're trying to piece together the
budget with all the other creators that
they're negotiating with as well so
that's dude I I've done this across
hundreds of negotiations and this might
be shocking to hear but 75% of the time
the brand will tell you the range it's
wild dude and and so now great you have
a good ballpark of kind of where you
should come in with those different
packages and then now 25% of the time
they will they'll steal Stonewall
they'll say I don't know we don't know
you tell us and so my very unscientific
advice in this scenario is you have to
pick your heck yeah number right meaning
that package one you still send them
packages but package one if they pick
that you say heck yeah let's go I'm
excited not oh man I got to do this now
exactly and then you resent it and so
again look that number is going to
change regardless of kind of where
you're at as a creator for every Creator
it's going to be different um but
hopefully that's helpful my gosh that's
incredible Let's uh let's wrap this up
by talking about sponsor magnets your
new book congratulations on writing a
book uh that's phenomenal um tell us a
little bit about it what kind of things
will you learn by reading this book and
what should makes people excited about
this book dude this was the book that I
wish I had 15 years ago every mistake
that we made through hard lessons of
signing away rights and contracts that
we shouldn't have um you know having
kind of a sloppy process of
collaborating with Brands um feeling as
though brand Partnerships were awesome
when we could get them but they were
kind of unpredictable in terms of as a
revenue stream as a Creator and so you
know one thing that we we learned over
the years that is that that's actually
not true if you have if you devise a
system to actually ensure that these
Partnerships turn into ongoing
relationships you can actually start to
rely on that income when you're
collaborating with Brands and so this is
what I what I dive into in this book
it's my EP sponsorship wheel framework
it's pitch negotiate contract concept
produce feedback publish and analyze and
I go into these are the structure of the
basically the main eight chapters of the
book I go into extreme detail about how
do you actually create create this
system for yourself and also attract
sponsors uh to want to work with you
over and over again and so really it's a
complete distillation of everything that
I know having been a creator for 15
years having run this Agency for many
years uh and I'm just so excited for it
to be out in the universe I have just
some insane testimonials that I've once
someone left a review on Amazon that
said something like I got a deal I from
the moment I finished the book to
getting the money in my bank account
from a brand that I pitch was four days
wow
so it crazy I just like the results that
I'm that people are seeing are just
phenomenal man so if anyone listening or
watching is interested in this we just
scratched the surface on what I talk
about in the book and you can just go to
sponsor magnet.com to check it out yeah
we're gonna we're going to put the link
in the description in the show notes
check it out uh definitely get grab
yourself a copy even if you're just like
I think I'm still too far away from that
yet I think if you read it and just this
podcast alone is like mindbending but if
you just read it and understand even the
depths of the things that you will
eventually be getting into or even if
you're just curious phenomenal read um
some hot takes which I love I love a
good hot take and I think that um as
someone I and I've known Justin for
years I think this is a phenomenal thing
for the industry and for creators so
definitely show support by going out
there and grab a copy if you can grab a
copy for a Creator friend as well
there'll be a link in the description
and in the show notes for that Justin
with all that being said what do you
want to leave us with that's going to
make us feel so inspired for the
day you are in control as a Creator you
do not need anyone's permission to
collaborate with Brands if you were
sitting here waiting and you were
looking for a sign of like when is the
right time for me to work with brands
that time is now there's no gatekeeper
there's no one standing in between you
and doing this as a Creator and let me
tell you now you will make $10,000 in
sponsorships way sooner than $10,000 in
AdSense good I thank you for saying that
cuz that is so true it's not even a joke
ladies and gentlemen you have just
gotten thousands of dollars worth of
information for just the 40 something
minutes of your time so we greatly
appreciate your time make sure you check
out the link in the description and in
the show notes to check out sponsor
magnet an incredible way to move
yourself from the parttime Creator to
the full-time Creator and maybe even
having your own employees and I will
work for you because I know my listeners
are smart so I would be your first
employee I'll see all of y'all in the
next one