---
title: 'Kareem Rahma on Building Viral Shows and Redefining Late Night'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=TIqA43EeVLI'
video_id: 'TIqA43EeVLI'
date: 2026-07-14
duration_sec: 0
---

# Kareem Rahma on Building Viral Shows and Redefining Late Night

> Source: [Kareem Rahma on Building Viral Shows and Redefining Late Night](https://youtube.com/watch?v=TIqA43EeVLI)

## Summary

Kareem Rahma, creator of Subway Takes and Keep the Meter Running, discusses his journey from premium scripted podcasting to pioneering unscripted short-form vertical video shows. He shares insights on format creation, the importance of momentum, and his philosophy of pursuing fun and authenticity over traditional success metrics.

### Key Points

- **Introduction to Kareem Rahma** [00:00] — Kareem Rahma is the creator of Subway Takes and Keep the Meter Running, known for redefining the talk show format for YouTube.
- **New Late Night Label** [01:30] — Kareem was featured in Vanity Fair as part of the 'new late night' but doesn't see himself as replacing late night; his show focuses on working-class creatives, not celebrities.
- **Format Creation Philosophy** [04:00] — Kareem advocates developing a format 80% of the way and then executing; the remaining 20% fills itself in during production.
- **Subway Takes Origin** [06:00] — The show started as a Hail Mary after his premium scripted podcast company ran out of money. The '100% agree/100% disagree' mechanic was improvised in the first episode.
- **Keep the Meter Running Concept** [10:00] — The show originated from a personal cab ride where the driver offered life advice, leading to the idea of hailing a cab and asking to be taken to the driver's favorite place.
- **Authenticity vs. Virality** [15:00] — Kareem emphasizes that his goal is to create entertaining, ethical content, not to go viral. He plays at the top of his intelligence, which resonates with audiences.
- **Challenges with Traditional Media** [20:00] — Kareem spent years trying to adapt Keep the Meter Running for TV but faced restrictive contracts and creative interference, leading him to produce it independently on YouTube.
- **Political Responsibility of Creators** [25:00] — Kareem believes creators have a responsibility to avoid platforming hateful voices but should engage politically on their own terms, as he did by endorsing Mayor Eric Adams.

### Conclusion

Kareem Rahma's success stems from his punk attitude, focus on authenticity, and willingness to follow his gut. He encourages creators to prioritize momentum and execution over perfection, and to find joy in the process.

## Transcript

Our guest today is Kareem Rama. He's the creator and host of Subway Takes, one of the most popular shows right now on the internet. >> 100% >> agree. >> And he's just launched [music] a new show on YouTube called Keep the Meter Running. >> Now you've got a show where you talk to cab drivers and just have the most amazing conversation with cabbies. >> Kareem sits literally at the center of what's being called the new wave of late night. He's responsible for redefining the talk show format and pioneering what it looks like to make unscripted television style shows for YouTube. [music] So, we sat down with Kareem in Brooklyn, New York to ask him about the success of these shows and where he thinks the future of media and attention [music] is heading next. >> All right, Kareem, welcome to the show. >> Hey, what's up, man? How you doing? [laughter] >> I'm great. I'm great. A few weeks ago, I texted you a picture of this photo of you with a bunch of other creators in Vanity Fair, and the notion of it was the new late night. Do you resonate with that as like like you're one of these new late night hosts? >> You know, I'm very thankful to have been included in that list. I think it would have been a glaring omission if I wasn't. I don't necessarily like think of myself as like I never set out to replace late night or to be late night. like it wasn't in my mind that this is what was happening. So I I loved it and if I wasn't in that photo I would would have been upset for sure. I [laughter] probably would have cried. >> You also had very good placement. >> You did have good placement. >> Great placement. Great placement. >> And I think you were the only person wearing brown, right? Like everyone seemed to be in like black and white. >> I know. I don't know about the color. >> I I analyzed it. You checked. >> I [laughter] was like, "Wow, Kareem front and center wearing a different color than everyone else." >> They they put me in the center and I did appreciate that. And I don't know what the strategy it might just be cuz I look cool. >> No, I think we should look into it. >> We should look into it and ask. I don't I don't know. But it was very nice. Um and I think to a certain extent like we are replacing an element of late night which is the interview or the celebrity interview. I think what differs from my show compared to all those other shows is that like I don't I have 5% of my show celebrities and 95% are like workingass creative types whether that be comedians or filmmakers or artists or authors or writers. It doesn't really matter. So I think like mine is more of a talk a talk show for the streets. Uh and and that makes sense to me. The only element that we're replacing is the interviews. So I'm I'm a little bit like how can we push the genre even more forward? One of the things I try to think about is like what are the criticisms that I will face in 5 years or 3 years or 4 years and how do I get ahead of those things? So when I hear that we're the future of late night I'm like okay well maybe we are right now but we won't be in three years. So how do we actually replace late night? I think it's interesting too to touch on uh the different segments of a late night show like you're saying and realize that yeah we have improved the celebrity interview or just the interview in general like we prioritize the take uh or the topic of conversation we don't just have people on just because they happen to have something to promote. But when you think about late night, I think about the monologue that like there's a responsibility to be a cultural like leader. And you're right, like those shows don't touch on that yet. When you talk about the next 3, five years, do you think about it that way of like, oh, maybe I will >> willingly move more into that lane of being a face that like now that I've been elevated uh to this role, I also will assume that role too of like yeah, I will talk about what's happening in culture, >> right? about about being the guy. >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. I I don't know like what I personally am doing. [laughter] >> I really don't. Like I can sit here and pretend that I do, but I really don't. And I think a lot of people don't. And and and my thing has always been like to follow my gut and to also do what I think is fun. Like that is what I do. I pursue the fun and as soon as something gets not fun, then I usually don't do it anymore. So, you know, I I definitely want to push every genre that I'm participating in. I want to push it forward. And that means from the format perspective, from the distribution perspective, from the creative perspective, I want people to see something and essentially have the reaction of like, I haven't seen that before or that's such a good idea. I wish I would have thought about that. Like that is kind of what I want to inspire in people. The other thing is like I love I love the idea that because in that article for example there I think we're 10 of us maybe we're all like collaborative and um have no real reason to be competitive. I'm sure there are like little funny competitions of like I can't believe Britney Broki got Harry Styles and I didn't. Right? Like that that that happens but because we're not all fighting for the same air time it literally doesn't actually matter. you know, there's like enough room, there's enough airtime because our shows are digitally distributed that there's no time slot. So, like we can all be friends and not have this super competitive thing happening. Like the challenge with calling those select few the new late night is that there are like every podcast is a like this is a late night show. I don't know what the difference is between this and subway takes to be completely frank, you know, and Alex Cooper show is a podcast or a talk show and Joe Rogan show is a talk show. They're all talk shows. Everything's a talk show. So, what is like what defines an actual talk show? I don't know. >> I think it has to do I think our obsession with the concept of late night is having these cultural guides that we turn to, right? >> Like the host. >> The host, >> which is really nice of you to say. >> Yeah. something happens, you want to hear from Colbear or Kimmel or back in the day Johnny Carson and they it creates a sense of something very different from the news and a news anchor someone who's kind of like a relatable guide to what is happening in the world. I think there's a there's almost a unspoken fear of the loss of that >> because then we will just be in the abyss of like culture is just so fragmented and there's no singular host that we can all go okay we'll latch on to this person and hear about culture from this person because this conversation has been happening for a long time about late night >> right like it's not it's not a new conversation but it actually has formalized in a new way through the interview format >> um >> but I think our obsession is because we don't want to lose these like monocultural guides. >> I think that's really I've never really thought of it of it from from that perspective that the audience is actually has like this parasocial relationship with the host. >> Yeah. >> And I I haven't really thought about that before. I guess that makes a lot of sense cuz like why would someone prefer Letterman over Leno, >> right? And it's probably because they vibe with Letterman's delivery and his more like intellectual thoughtprovoking monologues and and it makes me think about how and what I can do to actually build that parasocial relationship with my audience in a way that they see me as that person that they can like call upon when they need to. >> Do you want that? >> Reluctantly, [laughter] you know, totally reluctantly. I I think I want to entertain and I also want people to love me and >> I love the love you know I and I've always kind of aired on the side of positivity and optimism and kind of like nonchalants [laughter] >> because I it's not that serious right like the world is serious and the news is serious and what's happening today is serious but I'm not there to provide that I'm there to provide the >> opposite of I'm there to provide the comfort and the consistency and the, you know, no the the knowing that regardless of what is happening, there's always kind of a place for fun and entertainment where things don't ever get too serious. >> You as a curator too, specifically on subway takes for me is uh where a lot of the guidance comes from. Like I'm not always watching subway takes to be like, what does Kareem think about this take and what does that tell me about the world? But the curation of all of the people, like every day when I open Instagram, I'm like, I'm gonna get a new one. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna see a new person with a new uh feeling about the world and a new tone. And like the the accumulation of all those people across a month. I'm like, yeah, okay. There's all types of people and they're all existing on this subway with you. Like, >> you get the vibe check, temp check. >> Yeah. And and the booking of the show is like one of the hardest parts about it. And it's it's always been one of the hardest parts about it because trying to balance everything. It like is all hanging on by thread. I've done I think 650 episodes at this point have been aired and every single time I'm like well this is the one that is going to destroy my career [laughter] you know like like this is for sure the one that's going to every time because as you guys both know even if it is an inconsequential nothing burger of a take such as we don't need the funny photo >> the silly one >> or the silly photo >> I got that was almost that was almost the end of my it took a really long time to come back People have super [laughter] strong opinions on something that actually doesn't matter >> and I am in on the joke because I program the show. So I know that all of these things don't matter. Like I call it the most sophisticated show but the stupidest subjects. >> I think a lot of times people forget that this is a comedy show and they just have they're so ready to defend their position. The fact that I 100% agree and 100% disagree is really a reflection of America today where there is no gray area. You're either on this side or that side. And the point of the show is to prove that that's not really possible. Like like that that's a myth. There is no black and white. Like we live in the gray area. So anytime I 100% disagree, I don't even believe that what I'm saying. >> I just unfortunately [laughter] created that mechanism. >> The format of the show. >> Yeah. And and that happened by accident. Like that happened episode one. I have this thing about like you should develop a format 80% of the way and then go do it and the 20% fill itself in. And so for subway takes I had this idea of doing a show on the subway where I say what's your take and then people talk about anything. That part with the 100% agree 100% disagree didn't happen until I just shot the first episode and it's the first thing that came out of my mouth. >> Wow. with the take. >> What was the first take? >> It was that vertical video has been like the bane of a cultural existence and has ruined society. And I disagree. 100% disagreed. Uh or like maybe it was more about it ruined cinema in general and I said 100% disagree. >> And you know we had this great conversation about how movies are horizontal because your eyes are horizontal >> which is not in my [laughter] opinion not true. And you know like the screen is here. So, why would you need vertical eyes if you're looking like it's just this whole stupid debate? But that video immediately. >> You said something earlier about how you want people to feel. And I would say when I first started seeing Subway Takes and then when we shot it with you, I don't think I've ever felt more kind of angry about a format because like in it of its simplicity and the beauty of like I I actually believe Subway Takes is a perfect show right now for this exact moment. Uh and there's something so beautifully simple about it of even like starting starting with so what's your take like as simple as that feels that comes from like a lot of understanding of the current world and even the fact that almost every every day when I open Instagram it's the first thing I see. I don't know how that >> I feel the only show that can be shot with this quantity and maintain quality. Like there aren't many shows on the internet where it's like, "Yeah, I can shoot 12 in a day." >> Well, here's the thing. I think like when I have to shoot, I get really stressed out because doing it as many times I've done it. I've probably shot I've had at least a 100 shoot days and every single time it's a disaster [laughter] because it's not in a studio, >> right? >> And every single time I I get in a really bad mood the night before [laughter] cuz I know that I'm about to spend 5 hours >> in >> figuring it out. >> The train. Yeah, live producing something that is almost impossible, you know, like like it looks easy, but and and and it might even feel easy, but the amount of cortisol spike that I have that day is awful. And you know, you have there you you can't imagine how much I want to have a show in a studio. >> You know what I mean? [laughter] And like like I want it so badly like every day I'm like what can I do? And that's like why I like kind of started doing the lotto shows. in my office because unfortunately all of my shows require shooting in the streets of New York. So nothing is fully produced, nothing is fully controlled. There's always curve balls constantly. So as you know from producing like it's it's difficult >> and >> but that's also what makes it fun to watch or to be there in person like at any given time someone chimes in from like eight seats down and the camera pans and like it's amazing. No, it's it's an amazing show and I do agree that like the format itself like like the miniature elements of it. I think the fact that it's shot in public makes it feel like it's a public square where anyone can have their opinion. >> The fact that it's moving even is like this momentum. the fact that I 100% disagree or 100% agree like and then the booking of it like the I I'm trying to essentially give a platform to people who need the platform but wouldn't necessarily get booked on Fallon or or uh what are the other who are the other is that it >> coarse yeah so like people that that are almost there like that have this that it would benefit them to get booked on Kimmel. Like that's how I try to lay like I'm like, "Okay, this is a musician who is close and might be close in 2 years or 3 years or four years to getting on that show. Like how can I help them?" And and that's really the lens that I try to process things through. And and and you know, one of the biggest criticisms of the show, which I like to address, is that they're like, "Have regular New Yorkers on." And I'm like, "I do." you know, they have a motive, they have an like they they have a desire to come on the show because they are promoting something, but most of these people don't have PR agents, they don't have uh agent agents, they don't have managers. They're early on in their careers and they could use the air time. >> Like a comed a stand-up comedian in New York to me is a regular person. That's a working class creative, right? And like sure I could have a plumber on the show or an electrician on the show, >> but they don't need >> to be on the show. It's not helpful to their career really. You know, we've chosen nonprofits that we have had uh on the show to help them. And >> this idea of like have a regular New Yorker on the show. I don't know if you've interviewed a regular New Yorker. [laughter] Um it's like like a truly like just like guy that has nothing to do with it. Like a lot of people freeze up >> or they don't have a take ready, right? you know, the camera comes on and they go, "Uh, that's happened many times." Also, there are plenty of other shows that cater to the regular, like the fully regular New Yorker, right? >> But my show is a talk show. >> It's also like a comedy show. >> It's a talk show. It's a comedy show. And in talk shows, you book guests and people that have something to say >> and a reason to be on the show. I try to keep it as regular as possible in the sense that like everyone's a working-class creative and then the occasional Ethan Hawk or Jason Baitman which is more of like I'm interested in that conversation like I would love to meet my heroes and I have a vehicle to do it. Why wouldn't I take the opportunity of course >> but you will never see me book someone because of their social following or their like clout in any sort of industry. It's always based on like >> do I want to hang out with this person? Do I have an interest personally in this person? So, let's go to like the creation of the format. Did you know it was going to work? Like, take me into the writing room, I guess, or even just the thinking process of how this format comes together, cuz you are uniquely good at making formats. >> Me and my friend Andrew, who's a co co-creator of the show, we uh had started a premium scripted podcast company where like this is right in 2020. we started like kind of like mulling him about this idea to create premium scripted podcasts. felt like a good idea and he went out, he raised some money um and we started packaging these shows and developing these shows with other networks and you know we had like a little bit of momentum and traction and we got like two projects on air uh but they were so expensive it's so timeconuming I was like literally making a movie for your years >> and you were producing >> producing and developing >> and you're not hosting these >> I hosted one of them okay >> I hosted one of them uh but at the time I was like I did have a desire to be talent like I wanted like the reason I started the company was cuz adjacent to my desire to be a producer and talent. So I was like okay this is a vehicle where some of my some I can do some stuff myself and then partner with other people to do stuff on the other side. But so, you know, I think we ran that for like three-ish years, uh, and had some successes and had some wins, but like it never took off and we never made enough money to make it a sustainable business. So, this is premium scripted podcasting. I we're we're like we have like $7,000 left in the bank account. And I was ready to just go, >> let's just distribute [laughter] >> $3,000 each. >> I can use the money. Let's get >> We'll save 1,500 for like closing up the company or whatever. And like, let's call it a day. Andrew was like, do you have any Hail Mary ideas? And I was like, I have one idea that's to do the complete opposite of what we're doing. So like not premium unscripted short form vertical video content. like let's do the complete opposite. >> Yeah. >> And I had been kicking about this idea that like you know we were in the podcasting space and every conversation was like well how are you going to market the podcast? Oh we're going to put the clips on Instagram and then blah blah blah. We're going to push people to the podcast. I was like and the big idea is that there is no long form. Like I was like the show is the show. There's no long form show. >> The show is the clips. Everyone's making clips to promote the show. But it's a lot easier to focus on the show if it's just the clips >> and people aren't necessarily going from the clip and then listening to an hour and a half. >> I don't think so. I I mean of the like I'm aware of Theo, never listened to Theo Von. I'm aware of Amy Polar's podcast, never listened to Amy Polar. I'm aware of Colin and Samir, never seen or listened to [laughter] >> Never will have no desire to. >> Yeah, I've seen the clips of Colin I've seen Colin clips >> and I have told myself I will never [laughter] >> watch that 45 minutes. I don't have 45 minutes. I don't even listen to podcasts. Uh so so that that >> there will be people who watch that clip and they're like, "He's right. I'm not going to go listen to >> I'm not going to listen to this." Yeah, we get it. You know, like we understand you guys are going to publish the three best clips. What was the point of listening to the rest of it? [laughter] >> So, so I was like, "Okay, let's extract the DNA, the clip, and just focus on that." And it was it really made the job so easy because I wasn't thinking about marketing. I wasn't thinking about pushing people across platforms. I wasn't thinking about like if the like the goal of getting people to listen to the full thing. So it was a moment where we were either going to throw in the towel or do it. We went out and did it. That first shoot I was like there is energy. Like there's a real energy here. And I was booking I booked the same people that I book now. All of my friends comics. I published a trailer that did pretty well. And then episode one ripped and I was like, "Oh shit." I think, you know, and episode one like a couple of famous people left comments and I was like, "Oh, that's crazy." Like, "How did that get to their feeds?" And >> um, >> did you have any success like that before on Instagram? >> Yeah. With Keep the Meter Running. >> With Keer Running, >> Keep the Meter Running ripped out the gate. I mean, Keep the Meter Running was a faster growing show than Subway Takes. >> Yeah. >> I did less episodes and had more followers than Subway Takes. No trailer on that one, but episode one, Wake Up, 2 million views. And I'm like and like real engagement. I think that's the other big thing is like real emotional attachment to the format and what is happening >> like real high stakes and people saying like I love this which is a lot different than somebody just getting mad at you or like being like this is hilarious like people are like I love this want encouraging you to do more of it. So it was um it was it was the the feeling though was that like keep the meter running I had put on hiatus because to your point very difficult to produce even more difficult than like so it's like a it's not in a studio b the shoots are like 12 to 15 hours. So you have two things like two things going against me is that it's totally unpredictable because it's shot in the world and it's a 12-hour shoot which is like at least a shoot is constrained and you're getting more than one asset out of it, one more than one video. I had put that show on hiatus to kind of like focus on building something more scalable because I knew that I was still early in my career and that like even though Keep the Meter Running was a hit, it was going to be really really difficult to like make it a scaled show, >> a scaled format. What was your experience between like uh the platforms at the time of even like Instagram and Tik Tok and you know we were just like very native to YouTube so was were always and have always thought about YouTube. YouTube's really hard to get someone to watch something new >> for sure. >> Almost impossible >> for sure. >> Truly. >> Yeah. >> I don't think in Instagram shows nor did I even think about a show for Instagram around this time. >> That's funny. Yeah. >> Like when you were in the premium podcast world, why was Instagram even a thought? And do you think of Subway Takes as an Instagram show, a Tik Tok show? What's like its primary home? >> I call it unscripted short form vertical video content. And we publish on X, YouTube shorts, Instagram, Tik Tok. Uh I was doing LinkedIn for a while cuz I thought it was hilarious. [laughter] Um literally threads like anywhere where vertical unscripted short form vertical video content can be ingested, I put it there. And I don't know, like at the moment I felt like there was an opportunity, you know, I think Keep the Meter Running was the first ever format for vertical video. Like I'm I'm almost 100% certain. And before that, I had I had tried then failed cuz I was way too early to do a show called Stupid Studies, which was like Trevor Noah of Tik Tok. Like that's what in my mind I was like I I will do the monologue. That's what I was doing. I was doing I was breaking up. I was deconstructing the talk show at that point. I was just doing the monologue and I would kind of deliver the news in a twominute clip and there was no long form. Again, I was already thinking in this like what if there's no long form and maybe that hunch was based on my own consumption habits which is I rarely am consuming long form content unless it's a well produced television show. I'm now stepping into YouTube because I like the challenge and I like changing and I like keeping things interesting and you know when something of mine becomes successful or uh like feels like it's peaking or on its way to peaking or I know will peak then I'm like okay what's the next what's the evolution of what I've done? >> Yeah. I feel like you you managed to get people invested in you even though you're giving the majority of the time to the guest in both formats. >> I think one of the reasons that both of the shows are successful in my eyes are because uh they are redemptive not exploitative. We had a creator on the show Ryan Drahan who said that he was like a lot of the internet is exploitative and you can feel it like and a lot of the short form formats feel exploitative of like >> stopping someone on the street and being like hey show me this. How much do you make here? It feels like you're like, "Ah, I get it. I'm kind of interested." But it feels like you're taking that from the person on the other end. And I think you tow a fine line of like giving space to >> Well, I I think the big difference is a lot of those shows, especially the short form ones, are about going viral. That's the goal. Like that's literally the creator's goal is to go viral. They're like, I see all these other people going viral, doing this thing. I'm going to do this thing and also go viral. Like my goal was never to go viral. My my goal was to create entertainment and to create entertaining content. And I'm amazed and happy and shocked that it has done so well, but the goal was never to go viral. The goal was to get people to watch me, but in a way that I felt was ethical and highbrow and playing at the top of my intelligence. And so that's also a really important thing. Like I'm always playing at the top of my intelligence. The shows to me feel smart. like they they feel like you have to have some level of critical thinking skills to watch the show. It's not slop in other words, you know, and it's not just like rage bait or viral bait. And I think that is why the engagement is so high. People watch >> like when people quote >> like people know the episodes like they see you and they go, I remember your episode. I remember your episode. I remember you when you said this. My favorite episode was was this. and even quote things that happen at the last 30 seconds of the episode >> or like love how it ended. So the completion rate is really high because >> I'm playing at the top of my intelligence. I'm challenging the audience to keep up with the conversation. I'm not just like giving them exactly what they want all the time, you know? Um and I think that's a big big difference. And also treating every guest with this respect and dignity and like everyone feels like my friend and that's a big problem for me. >> [laughter] >> like like I can't do anything like and and but it's also amazing cuz like I feel like I walk around New York City and I feel like I'm in Sesame Street, you know? I feel like everyone's a close personal friend of David uh I said close personal friend of David Carr. Amazing guy used to be a media writer at the New York Times >> and he has this book where he always felt like a close personal friend. >> Yeah. >> And for some his birthday once his friend gave him a shirt that said I am a close personal friend of David Carr. And that always stuck out to me that uh but yeah close personal friend of Karim Rama and or Rahma depending on who I'm talking to. [laughter] I'm like so also while all of this is happening I have agents and managers >> and I am with Keep the Meter running I'm like holy [ __ ] like there's a Vanity Fair article that says this is the best show on Tik Tok. >> It was the only show on Tik Tok but it was still the best show on Tik Tok and I'm sending them the article and they go awesome. [laughter] Great job, Kareem. I go, how do we like Should we package this? Do we do a TV show? Call some people. Hey, I just got an executive producer. Nice. Keep us updated. I'm like, please help. I'm literally like, please help me. Okay, then Subway Takes comes out. Holy [ __ ] guys. I just did it again. Like, you don't know how hard it is to do it once. I just did it I just did it back to back, which is why I'm afraid of launching a third show. Uh, you know, like like that's really hard. So, I'm I'm I'm cooking up. I [laughter] have something. I know, man. >> I have a huge one. Literally >> hu I look and sound like Trump. [laughter] >> I have a >> I have a huge big idea. You guys have no idea. This thing's going to be okay. But hey, Subway takes ripping, guys. Million views. Oh my god. Blah blah blah. I can I I I'm begging for their attention. I go, I can help you. I will book any of your clients. Let me know who you want me to book. Yeah, we'll let you know. Nothing. They're totally asleep at the wheel. 50 episodes in. Hey, I just got a brand deal for $5,000 myself. Why didn't you loop us in? Well, you guys have been completely >> silent. Uh then they're like, you know, they're they're like, "Great. Good [laughter] job." Uh maybe that was even a 100 episodes in. Can you do more? How do we sell this? Blah blah blah. Nothing. And so I was like, I don't understand if this is going to make any money, but it's fun and people seem to enjoy it and I hope it makes money, but like I might not, and that's okay. And then I get this amazing New York Times profile uh in the arts and culture section, which is about Subway takes and about Keep the Meter running and about my career as a host. And I fired my agents and managers the day that that came out. It was amazing and awesome and I was super happy. Uh and and I think that they regret it because I'd never resigned with an agency. I still don't have an agency. Uh I have great management. And they were like, "You're big." I think we had 300,000 followers. They're like, "You're big, but you're not that big." and and you're definitely like hot and like in in a really interesting position where like people are paying attention to your show more than they're paying attention to any other show. And I think that was because of the booking to your point. It was like people of interest and it was people that wouldn't necessarily get booked on other shows. So there was something interesting and novel about my idea that other shows didn't have. Uh but they were like, "Look, you're just you're not monetizable yet because you're small. They were just like, "You that's that's the point." [snorts] And I was like, "Okay, if I get big, do you pretty much guarantee me that I will be able to make a living?" And they were like, "Yes." And they were like, "How do you make it big?" And I was like, they were like, "It's obviously you got to book more celebrities, right?" And I was like, "No, I think I just have to make more videos. Like, I don't make a lot. I'm treating this as a side hustle, but if I treat it like a career and a job, then what I should do is wake up and go to work every morning and make these videos and show up every single day and do it. That's when I paused everything, you know, like I stopped writing scripts. I stopped making movies. I stopped doing I stopped doing anything. I was like, I'm going to focus on subway takes. And I did that for a year. And I uh used to call it the road to a million. That was my my plan was like for that year it was like the road to a million >> sending updates to the team really just that was my goal >> and making sure that quality was not sacrificed but it was like how do we get to a million and that is when really like on the road to a million things started coming in and deals started coming in and it really looked like it would be a business um and that's when we started expanding beyond uh Tik Tok and Instagram to YouTube and YouTube shorts And YouTube was so hard. I remember I posted for like at least 6 months and would get 400 views per video. And then one day finally >> just something happened. I got like 10,000 subscribers in a day. And then from there it's been a slow build. Almost at a million. Probably when this comes out it'll have a million. >> Wow. >> Plaque. >> Yeah. I know. I can't That's the only reason I'm doing that plaque really works. It really does. Right. You really can't wait to wait to replace my 100K. >> Yeah. >> And give it to Andrew. Yeah, [laughter] >> the handme-down. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> we spent years of our life with no viewership irrationally trying to get the plaque to then show our parents and our wives who didn't care. Like we have >> so well. It really works. >> What who were the brands that came in? What what type of brands was it like we want you to wear this type of clothing? Like how did they see themselves integrating onto the show? >> It was really interesting. The first couple were brands were clothing brands. >> Um it was like H&M, Urban Outfitters, Unilo. They were early adopters and I think it made sense, you know, like they would be like, "Oh, like they would actually dress the guests." >> Interesting. >> Not me. Yeah. They would like But but again allowed me to book the show. So I would literally I would go like, "Hey guys, are you around? Do you want to make X amount of dollars? You just need to wear this cool clothes." This is all headtotoe unique club, by the way. uh you need to wear like this clothes on the show and uh and like give me five take options that we can vet with the client and we'll make it work. So those were the first and then it became uh more brands. I I think Google was an early one. >> Google was early >> and it was really cool because what happened was we did a subway take with or no we did an organic take where uh Millie Tamarez came on the show and she was unpaid by anyone. She was just like, "Android is better than iPhone." That was the take. And it had nothing. She wasn't being paid. I wasn't being paid. No one was being paid. That was just her subway take. And it made it to the front page of Reddit. Got like 21 million views. And then Google was like, "This is amazing. How do we like double down on this?" So, we rebooked Millie to actually have like a reason like what are the real reasons that Android is better than iPhone, right? Like, and I think then we work together again. So Google's been like multi I think we've worked with them three or four times. They were really great clients. So they were early and um and then it's just like a lot of you know the the entertainment industry because it's so hard to book a celebrity on our show because there's just not enough space. Like sometimes they've been like hey we have this new Netflix show coming out or this new Hulu show coming out. and they've been great partners and because it's amazing for me because essentially like I need to get paid for my time and my platform that I've built and I don't have time for everyone. So if I have if I have to rush home or like I can't put my kid to bed or I have to miss out on something else that I would rather be doing to do the show like I should be paid even though I would have this person on the show for free. You know what I mean? Right. So it's like that rate is a lot lower than just like the fully branded rate because I do get something out of it which is you know an interesting person and I don't have to do all of the work. >> Is an example of that Jason Baitman. >> No I was not paid for that one. >> I was not paid for no no >> fantastic take. >> He was great. >> Yeah. >> He was and he was such a growth professional. So much fun to spend time with. I I loved shooting with him. >> His take was that uh dogs should wear shoes. Right. >> And they should. And I say totally agree. Yeah, I've I say that >> it's just crazy that they don't. >> I think it's crazy they don't. >> I'm not putting my dog in shoes. >> I think also just the comfort level. >> Okay. [laughter] >> I think the comfort level of a dog crawling into your bed when they've just kind of been around or like you know there's a lot of beings including ourselves that when you when you poop you wipe or you clean in some way, shape or form. A dog our expectation is not that. Yeah, >> they just poop >> and then they get in our bed and they lay on our pillow as fast as they walk. >> Now granted, I don't have a dog. >> Yeah, >> I'm just saying. >> But [clears throat] imagine New York City. I mean, New York, anyone that has a dog in New York City, I am like >> shocked. Yeah. >> That you could >> live with the animal. [laughter] >> Seriously, cuz cuz I'm like the bed is the big thing. >> Well, people they don't wear their clothes on the bed because you ride the subway. And so there's like imagine like me going home and laying on the bed. Like I definitely have never worn my shoes in the house. And especially in New York though, that actually changed when I moved to New York. Like cuz I used to wear it in Minneapolis. Who cares? Like I would wear my shoes in the house. >> Here, no way. >> So to have a dog that's like walking through piss and [ __ ] and then comes home and does not take their shoes off, >> right? [laughter] >> And then like >> or take a shower or >> Yeah. and then goes in the bed or the couch. It's >> it's shocking to me. And I have two cats and even then >> sometimes I'm like, I wonder what's on you. They're indoor cats. Totally. But I don't wash them every day. [laughter] So, and they sleep in my bed and I'm like, I wonder what's on you. Like, >> you walk in your own home without socks or shoes and then look at your feet. It's not good. >> Just not good at all. It's very bad. >> Yeah, >> it's very bad. But anyway, shout out dog owners. [laughter] >> But that was like Yeah. It's It's amazing cuz like you can in a world where I don't remember 90% of the things I watch on social, [laughter] >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah, like we talk about this all the time that when you open up like right now 95 million photos and videos are uploaded to Instagram every day. >> That's insane. >> And the amount of time that we all spend like we traveled in yesterday when I'm on an airplane waiting for it to take off. I am cranking through Instagram res. And I can tell you I can tell for sure just like Yeah. And I like my AirPods died before we took off from just cranking through >> reels. And I was like, whoa, that means I've been doing this for hours. >> Yeah. >> But I don't remember a single reel I watched yesterday. And it was hours. >> I don't remember a single reel. And so I think in a world where we have like we're just inundated with so much like you have made a memorable show. I really don't it's like very hard for me to fully navigate you know how how you did that and how a lot of people who make memorable shows have made those in today's era because I think it's impossible. The only way that I can understand it is if you're saying and doing something honest. Meaning like if I watch your thing and I can feel like you said that you're outcome oriented to go viral or you're there's a strategic element to this, >> I'm not going to remember it because it's just like >> it's just in the ubiquitous kind of world of like everything. >> Yeah. >> But if there's something I watch where I'm like, "Oh, that person's being honest." >> That's there's something different. >> I think so. You said something that like social media flattens us into one dimension and I obviously that's a negative but at the same time with subway takes I think in many ways you have flattened some of the people on the show to to their take like [laughter] when I think of >> I'm not doing that I mean you have to page >> but I think that's what makes it memorable is that like I see Jason Baitman now and I'm like oh yeah dog boots [laughter] they should wear shoes or like Austin Butler I'm like he should go to a bachelor party like that's unfair. He should. I feel bad for the guy. >> And now, like I told you, but whenever I go anywhere, people are like, "How should I approach you? [laughter] Like, should we handshake? Should we hug?" And it's shocking, man. It is really shocking. And it's amazing. Like, it's truly like I went to Puerto Rico. And here's the other thing I'll say is like I've always been like, if the streets love you, like that's where the power and that's where like that's where everything really matters, you know? It's like it's like why rappers are so ingrained in the culture. Like the streets love them. And I went to Puerto Rico for one day. >> Four selfies in the airport. Staff at the hotel love your show. Like >> workingass people, Bodega, Delhi, MTA workers, they love the show. That's different. That is something different. It doesn't feel like foreign to them to watch the show. It's like feels familiar and comfortable and like we're all on the same page. And I think that is what it is. It's the great equalizer, man. Jason Baitman, >> right? and and and like I had this amazing comment that stuck out to me that I loved and it was like subway takes is the only show and this was a comment on a video and it was like subway takes is the only show where one day it's John C. Riley complaining about people eating food on camera and the next day it's a female director talking about selling her eggs to make a movie. >> Right. >> And I was like that is exactly so spoton and exactly what makes the show special. And I think you can't lose the celebrity element of it because >> their takes like if their take sucks, I won't let them on the show. >> That's a real thing. Like if they come in with some softball PR take, I'm like, I'm sorry. Like you got to come up with a better one. And you know what's awesome? They trust me and they do workshop the takes. And they are worried. That's what's also funny is they're like, "Is this good enough?" You know, they they have they have nerves. >> And it's the greatest compliment I'll I'll ever receive was um who was I with? I was with someone that was like, "Man, you're so good at this." And I was like, "Thank you." Oh, Willie Woody Harelson like complimented me. He's like, "Man, you have you're like I had so much fun. This was awesome. Like, thank you for having me on the show. I'm so excited. Like, I love this show." And that was a real legitimizing moment for me where I was like I'm actually like not important but like I'm on like I don't need to feel weird around these people because they seem they view me as an equal in a way, right? Like they value what I'm doing and it's I'm not doing them like uh they're not doing me a favor. >> Yeah. >> And getting out of that like oh man thank you like >> you know what I mean? like I feel like I am equal. >> The ask is also a very important one, you know, because obviously we have a guestbased show. This is actually a pretty big ask for you to come here multiple hours. We're going to have a long conversation. Like this is a pretty big ask. >> A big ask of the audience, too. >> And it's a big ask of the audience. And I think um when I think about even coming on subway takes, pretty simple ask >> and it took 30 minutes total. And I watched I was take 12. So I watched everyone else's take. Hey, don't don't show how the sausages. [laughter] >> But I will say with Woody Harelson, it's a bigger ask because they we do subway takes uncut, >> right? >> Which is on YouTube. And that is those people's times cuz they're doing multiple shows or whatever. They're on their way to 30 Rock. Like, >> right, >> I'm asking them for at least an hour. >> So, it's still a big ask. >> What What is people's typical reaction on the subway? Does anyone care? >> No, they love it. Like if Jason Baitman's there or Austin Butler or Woody Harelson or John C Riley like the bigger the celebrity like you are shooting in this like very public >> I mean they love it. Think about getting on the train and seeing John [laughter] C. Riley just hanging out. >> But isn't that also just like the subway in New York like when you call the show like an equalizer. It's actually because like the subway experience people have always said that. That's what's great about New York. Michael Shannon takes the subway like anyone like anyone takes the subway. >> You can see them on there and and I I do think it is a I mean it's a it's fun for them because they're performing in front of a live audience. So like Woody Harrison was so in his zone, flinging the mic around, interviewing other people, like having the best time of his life. I I'll never forget it. It's like engaging with the audience, a crowd forming and watching the show. >> It's a live audience for the guests and for myself. And for them it's like most of the time it is like, you know, we're trying to take up as little space as possible. I'm super respectful. I'm like not trying to get in people's ways. I know that I'm in their space. They're trying to get to work. They're trying to get their kid to school. Like I'm trying to minimize my footprint. So most of the time like they're happy to see the show and they're excited to see the show and they're taking the can I get a selfie recording it like it's cool. very very very rarely is someone peeved that this is happening. >> So I'm really grateful that like New Yorkers are a different breed and if you're pissing in the corner of the subway, people are going to leave let you piss, you [laughter] know, like like >> no one's really trying to get in anyone's business unless you're like wearing a backpack and like it's shoved into my face and I say, "Excuse me, take your backpack off." Like if you're over there doing your thing, it's it's all good. >> Have you learned anything about New Yorkers or American culture through the takes that you get? Like are they trending a direction or speak to the times? >> I think everyone's [ __ ] like really stressed out. >> Yeah, >> I think everyone's really stressed out. And I think everyone's trying to not be stressed out and decompress and kind of like pop the balloon or deflate it at least. Maybe not a pop, but like put some air out. >> You know, trepidation. Do you know what that is? >> Mhm. >> I think everyone needs could could use a little bit of that. >> Yeah. >> Is that what it's called? Trepidation. >> No, I don't think so. I mean, >> it's where you like drill a little hole in your skull. >> I don't think that's trepidation. [laughter] >> I think it is trepidation. >> I think trepidation is like using caution. >> I think there's another thing. >> Really? >> We'll have to fact check it. >> I'll look it up right now. >> Just type in like >> is this like a fictional thing from a movie or >> This is a real thing. Type in drilling a small hole into your skull. >> Okay. [laughter] >> And it's not sci-fi. This is a thing. >> No, this is a thing that like I think like some sort of natives do. >> A small hole. >> Yeah. You let some of the pressure out. I'm serious. Think about it. Your brain, your brain, your head. >> Trepidation. >> Trapanning. >> Trapanning. >> Trey panning. >> Trey panning. What does it say? What's the definition? >> A surgical intervention in which a hole is drilled into a human skull >> to let them air out. [laughter] I feel like everyone needs a little bit of that. Like we got to let some we got to you know like when you see a cartoon and the steam is blowing out of the ears like I think that's where everyone's at right now >> especially on a short form feed right now where you're just like a fuckful [laughter] >> I saw a great meme the other day and I posted it was like 2007 and it was like the iPhone headphones and like dancer and it was like wo cool it's like a little computer that you can touch and put in your pocket and then it was like [laughter] 2027 like [clears throat] consuming rage hate watching the world collapse 24/7 It was someone like doom scrolling in bed. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's such a good It was I was like, man, this is what's happening. And I was I was on a flight yesterday. I think my screen time yesterday was 10 hours. >> Yeah. >> And it was >> injecting current affairs, >> right, >> into my veins and I couldn't stop. You know what I did when I got home? >> Turned on CNN. >> Like I was like, I am going this whole day. I will 100% be focused on [snorts] global affairs. when I'm pissing at the urinal, when I'm going through security at the airport, and when I'm lying in bed, and that is not healthy. >> Well, I think there's also this thing that right now with how much is available to us and how fragmented everything is that politics and and global affairs creates like relative monoculture. It's the thing we can all talk about. It's the assumption that when you walk in here, it's the assumption of our common ground. I don't know what else you watch, you know, [laughter] or listen to. Like, I have no idea. But I know you know about what's going on in the world. >> So I think that is uh and then it's also similar to like why takes are good is because there's an opportunity for us to have >> me to have an opinion on something and you to have another opinion on it. >> It's nice to find common ground, man. And it's really hard to find common ground. So I >> you know I I love the Subway Takes audience because they are maybe not looking for common ground but it's not that serious. And and the feed is serious. Most of the time the feed is serious. >> Yeah. >> To to be honest, like I think it's it's really insane to me that on a given day you can open the feed and watch someone die. >> I know. It's actually you would have to go to a weird website. >> Yeah. And >> and like you'd have to seek it out essentially. >> Yeah. But now you open your phone and it's possible if you open it on a certain day and time when something just happened that you're watching someone get killed. Literally. >> So 2025 felt like the year that we crossed over to that where it was just like I will watch people >> and I don't think like if you are a person without that phone or feed, you will probably go your whole life without seeing someone die. >> Of course. >> Yeah. So it's just I whatever is happening, we're in uncharted territory and like I don't know there's like ways to like I think we are I don't know. I don't know what's happening. [snorts] Sometimes I feel like it's normal and I'm like well this is technology and other times I'm like this shouldn't be normal at all. >> Yeah. >> And other times I'm like it's not a big deal and other times I'm like it is a big deal. Sometimes I'm like 6 hours screen time is fine. Sometimes I'm like this I need to get this down to two. Like I'm working through it I think just like everyone else. >> Yeah. Lately I've been scrolling and I keep seeing this study that like scrolling short form feeds has led to like cognitive decline. >> Have you seen that study? That feels that feels like low brain activity and I'm like, "Oh, there's that one again." [laughter] >> Well, dude, like smoking is it says on the box smoking kills literally says on the box of every cigarette, >> but it looks cool. [laughter] >> Or like, >> yeah, I take >> Does it still look cool? I don't know. >> No, I don't think it still looks cool. >> Joe Camel was cool. I can see why they got rid of that guy. >> Yeah, a Joe Camel vintage t-shirt. So sick. >> It was too cool. >> I'm so That's what I mean. doesn't look cool. You don't look cool doing cool. Well, I actually stopped doing it on the train because people were taking pictures of me like like paparazzi style like oh look it's the guy >> and they weren't being mean but I would see the photo and it would just be me [laughter] like >> it doesn't look cool. >> It looks really bad. So now I raw dog their subway ride and I just stand there. >> Headphones in or no? headphones in but no nothing playing because I'm I'm >> you know I feel like you shouldn't have you should use your senses when you're on the train. >> Sure. >> Uh but sometimes I'll just have a book and I'll you know read the same paragraph over and over >> but that looks a lot cooler >> book >> and it signals what I'm reading >> and it's almost like subliminal messaging. >> You're sending one message >> sending a message that like I am reading this book about XYZ and you guys >> I'm [snorts] this type of guy. >> Yeah this type [laughter] performative. Let's talk about Keep the Meter Running because that was a show you made prior to Subway Takes. It's a show that uh has been compared to Bourdain. Uh which I think is a very fair comparison. Actually, I wouldn't say I don't I I don't think that comparison should be taken lightly, but I think it is a fair comparison that um Keep the Meter Running is similar to the feeling that I got when I watched Bourdain. Can you explain the show and where it came from and and why you even made the show? Well, first of all, I don't take it lightly and it is shocking when I hear it. And I didn't even know what I was getting into when I started that show. Again, 80% format. I, you know, the show is I hail a cab and I tell the taxi driver, "Take me to your favorite place and keep the meter running." And then we go on wild adventures. I've been in the basement of an African mosque. I've been salsa dancing. I've been at the Russian bath house. I've been uh in a New Jersey helicopter flying uh near the Empire State Building. Like I've been through it all. It's amazing with the cabbie. And the idea stemmed from this place of like missing my father who passed away when I was 21 years old. And I always found myself like connecting to cababies in the sense that they're like adult men, usually with families, usually immigrants, >> usually working so hard. And there's something about them that I'm like, you have a secret because you're doing this difficult difficult job. And most of the time they're like in fairly decent spirits. And if you want to have a conversation about politics, they're ready. If you want to talk about religion, they're ready. If you want to talk about life advice, they're ready. It's like these therapists kind of or like gurus or you know, whatever monks. >> Yeah. >> You know, like I had this cab ride where I was going through a really tough time and >> I remember the guy was going over the Williams Bridge and he was giving me like all of this advice on my love life and I was like, "This is really good advice." And we got to my apartment and I was like, "Man, if you want to keep hanging out, like I would love to just keep hanging out." And he was like, "I'm going to have to keep the meter running." And I was like, "Oh, bang." Put it in my notes. >> Wow. And I had this idea for so long and I really wanted to do it, but I I just I was not again I came from a background working at Vice and the New York Times and in media and not really on camera talent and not really producing. I was like doing content development and content marketing, but I wasn't the one making the shows. And so I knew it was a good idea, but I didn't know how to make it. And I also wasn't like ready to commit. And then my friend Adam, Adam FaZe, who's amazing and such a pioneer in the space and was really >> the first one to get me into the driver's seat because he was like, "You're really funny. Like, have you ever thought about making a show?" And I was like, "Not really." you know, I was like I was like I'm making videos, but I haven't thought about like and at the time I really wanted to I remember I was like I want to have a thing but I was look I was not looking at shows but I was like you know I saw like people like you know I was like oh there's a guy that eats sandwiches and that's his thing. there's another person that like talks in their car. That's their thing. Like I was thinking about format in a way that it's like something I could do every day. And that's when I started the um stupid studies which is the talk show >> right >> in my kitchen. I built a studio in my kitchen so that I would not have to have an excuse of like I don't have a space. So they're like I can't get to the studio. So I was like I'm going to put it next to my bed. I'd roll out of bed into [laughter] the studio. It was amazing. Uh, but then that failed. And I was like, oh, you know, maybe that's not what I can do. Like, it has to be less produced. I need to like eat sandwiches. And he was like, "What's the one idea that you've always wanted to make?" And I was like, "This is it." He was like, "That's literally a brilliant idea." And so we, you know, I was like, "How are we going to do it?" He was like, "We're just going to do it." And so we went out the next day and I held a cab. He held 20 cabs. >> And Adam just held the camera. >> Adam held the camera. Another guy because there's one in the front, one in the back. Ari Kagan is the other guy, YouTuber. >> I was like, take me to your favorite place and keep the meter running. I he was like, you know, I said that to the first guy that said yes, >> and his name was Abdul Rahu Khan and he chose this Pakistani restaurant in Queens called Dera. And that's the moment where the 20% got filled in and it became a food show. >> I never set out to make any sort of food show. And again, that's why I'm like, fill in the format with 80% of the way and then make it and then the 20% that's missing will fill itself in. >> And it was like while we were making it, it was magic because he was like scolding me for getting divorced. [laughter] He was showing me this amazing restaurant that I would have never gone to. He was, you know, spiritually guiding me. And it was all the things that a father would do. like it was a good example of a male role model. >> And that's really what the show is about. It's about me finding good male role models and also exploring different cultures uh through the lens of cab drivers who kind of not only hold the secrets to the universe but also hold these amazing secrets of the cities that they're working in. And we started as a short form show, you know, we would shoot eight to 12 hours and I was so stupid at the time because we would hold the cameras like this [laughter] >> because we were making it for short. Guess what? Big mistake. >> Yeah. >> Because now, you know, we're shooting 8 to 12 hours and we're we're releasing 6 minutes of content >> on a small screen. >> That show is so important to me. I don't think any other creator would have done this, but like, you know, I have the hottest show in the world, Subway Takes, with the biggest in the world, if I want them, Subway Takes, making a really good living on Subway Takes. And rather than forgetting about this working class super gritty show after 4 years, I'm really excited to do it again and go back to that original idea. >> Even though it's less glamorous, it's less Hollywood, >> it's less everything. It's harder, more difficult for me to make, more expensive to produce. And I'm like, can't stop thinking about it. You know what I mean? And that's why I'm doing it. I can't stop thinking about I have a great time doing it. I love watching the episodes and in the moment I'm really happy and free. So, I think it just goes to show that like some ideas are just you got to do them even if they don't make a ton of sense. You know, >> I really believe it's like one of the most beautiful shows on the internet right now. Truly. And I was a massive fan of Bourdain because of that feeling of him being the everyman and feeling like he gets to travel the world and be accepted and welcomed into people's homes. And you get that sense with you. And I think the respect that you give actually to the intricacies of what it means to be a cab driver are also super important to that show. It's not just like be my deacto therapist, take me to your favorite spot. It's, you know, as you're watching guest to guest, you're learning about the medallion >> and the debt of purchasing one of these medallions and getting to drive a taxi cab. You're learning about how they have to go to the bathroom. >> Mhm. >> Like there's actually an arc across episode to episode, which I find very unique. You don't really see that on short form. Like >> I don't necessarily have to watch Subway takes in order at all. >> Yeah. Yeah, I don't have to with Keep the meter running, but if I am watching in order, I'm actually learning about this subculture of what it means to be a cab driver, which feels like >> obviously a very hard job. And a lot of times at the end of the episode, it feels like you're giving these cab drivers a moment to be fully heard. >> And it takes a lot of investment of the audience to get to that last sort of segment that you release. Uh, and like you saying before, it kind of asks a lot of the audience, but it hopefully uh my experience that it's worth it. You get to the end and like you know the Irish Catholic cab driver who reads his poem at the end of that episode. It's like such a cathartic experience. He's in the snow outside of his cab reading a poem about like how he feels about how New York has changed. And I feel like it's one of the few shows on the internet that is allowed to get very nuanced and doesn't have to be celebrity based. I really miss the show, which is why we we made it. Like, I've missed it over the past four years. I've been thinking about it constantly. It's always there. And so, it's one of those things, you know, when you just have to make it. >> Yeah. >> Like, I just have to make it. And I >> there was so many things that happened, >> you know, when I put it down. I was like, "Okay, let's develop it into a TV show." There were so many moments like I put it down four years ago and I was like, "Okay, this is a TV show. We're going to pitch this to TV. We're going to package it. We're going to develop it and we're going to go to streamers and somebody's for sure going to buy it. Look at the Vanity Fair article. Look at all the press. Look at the numbers. Like I said, faster growing show than Subway Takes. We were able to get to like 400,000 followers on TikTok in like 10 episodes. Whereas Subway Takes that took like >> 400 [laughter] >> or something, you know? Like I got so many nos that it really just turned me off from the from Hollywood for you know Hollywood is not a place it's a feeling and I was like what is this like you know and then I finally >> got a deal to make six episodes and the contract negotiation was took four months and every time I got the contract back there were more limitations on what Kareem Rahma could do not only as a person but with keep the meter running and with subway takes. Somehow subway takes had made itself into the contract like a contract about keep the meter running. >> What type of restrictions >> like we need to control where subway takes will air like if you decide that you want to put subway takes uncut on Pluto or Roku or Tuby like we would need to approve that. or if you start a Snapchat channel for Subway Takes, we would need to approve that. >> And I was like, this is this is a different show. And also, you don't understand [clears throat] that the bigger Subway Takes get, like this is a marketing channel for Keep the Meter Running. >> Every positive thing that happens to Subway Takes will net lead to a positive thing for Keep the Meter Running. >> So, it was like all of these things. And then, you know, in the process of pitching, there were streamers that were like, "Okay, cool. will take the show, but you have to like you raise a million dollars and we will also put in a million dollars. So, it needs to be a $2 million budget and you bring us a million dollars and we'll put in a million dollars and then we'll distribute the show. And I'm like, okay, so you want me to go out, raise [laughter] a million dollars, >> which is enough to make the show. give you the million dollar so that you can give it to a production company that you like and then I can get paid a talent fee which will probably be like less than 5% of that million dollars. >> Yeah. Yeah. What >> like what you know so confusing and so weird and you know other ones were like yeah maybe you could like turn this into a competition show. [laughter] Yeah. >> I was like, "You want me to have Cabby's compete for like my love and attention [laughter] so that I can buy one of them a house, >> right? >> Like beast games like Shadow Mr. Beast. That's [laughter] a totally different like Squid Games. like this is dark stuff like >> you know and or like is it like is there like a matchmaking element like dude [laughter] super >> wild stuff and just >> turned me off in a way that I was like you know what man >> unfortunately I've wasted four years like developing a show that was already fully baked >> and I just couldn't do it and so at the last minute I walked away from the deal immediately picked up the so many independent like production companies and finance were interested and I was saying no no no my ego >> my ego was like you must get a traditional deal. >> Yeah, I totally get that. >> Just ego fully ego based like I have to this is what the old kind of signal of success is and I need that and I I still I still do [laughter] >> even though it's not that one. It could be a different thing, but there's still this desire like that to know I've made it like that I've been approved by Hollywood in this way. But like I guess on the list of priorities, >> you're in the center of the Vanity Fair picture. >> You got >> wearing a different color jacket. >> You got to [laughter] be satiated. >> Still not on TV, >> you know. And I guess you're probably right from the outside looking in, but you know, you have these >> I totally get it. Yeah. It's hard to especially I think when you're in our age bracket. >> Yeah. older, >> very different feeling cuz we we want the feeling of like the Netflix stamp of approval or the traditional stamp of approval. Like we want that >> otherwise we're just validating ourselves. >> Yeah. Otherwise, we just have to live in the abyss of >> just all of us going [laughter] >> which actually sometimes happens and it's great because you guys are thought leaders and you're telling me I'm doing a great job and [laughter] I'm on your show because I value you as a thought leader. So, this all feels good. This is good. This is >> But where's the other, you know, the old guy? I want the old guy to [laughter] go. You want the show business committee to be like you got it. >> But that is one of my big regrets is that I wasted so much time trying with that with that show. Maybe that show. >> But the thing is you're a different guy now four years later who gets to make this show probably with a different level of even confidence to make the show. I mean correct me if I'm wrong but like and a different level of exposure. But I would say like from that story like the the the couple things even as Hollywood has come for creators, right? Like Netflix is filled now with creator shows and will be for the next couple years. The one thing that Hollywood really does not have that I think we have is momentum. Meaning when Adam and you decide to go make the show, you just go the next day and make the show >> literally. And I think momentum and creativity is one of the most important things in the world because all of our ideas are crazy and irrational and make no sense. So as much time and space as you give between idea and making the thing, it continues to make less sense and you can convince yourself >> out of it >> out of it very easily, right? >> And then you start getting into like contracts and stuff and like you're you're like months in and you're like what are we was I why was I excited about this? I didn't even know if I was excited about this. releasing something with the energy that it was made with is so important and I feel like you as a creator feel it and I think the audience feels it. >> That's such a good point. >> Yeah. And I think that's where we will continue to have struggles with what is Hollywood or traditional networks and how we operate where it's like no we're excited let's just make the thing and then I also realized the thing that I wanted which was this like you know I I see like I have so many guests on subway takes and they pull up in the black car >> you know that's paid for by Hulu or HBO >> and then you know and then they go oh by the way we're also having a party tonight at Metroraph >> and I go oh of course I'll be there like red carpet blah blah blah all these people are there celebrating them >> they're on Fallon and Kimmel and all this stuff and I'm like that's really actually what I want is I want that moment in [clears throat] the >> limelight you know because so much of being a creator is like you're grinding you're always on you never stop there's no like >> season two it's just like one long season like Subway Takes has 650 episodes >> one long season >> for eternity. >> Yeah. With no plans. >> Who knows when it's going to stop? And when is the party? We haven't had a party. [laughter] >> We haven't million views. No party, >> right? >> Or not views, followers. >> Yeah. >> So, when do I get to like do the thing? >> Is this an ask? >> You want us to throw you a party? [laughter] We are in this beautiful city. Um, and this was a breakthrough moment for me. And what got me really exciting excited is I was like, I'm going to shoot this show in seasons. I'm going to do a 10. I'm not going to like shoot, publish, shoot, publish. I'm going to shoot 10 episodes. I'm going to take care. I'm going to sound mix. I'm going to sound design. I'm going to color. I'm going to do I'm going to do a TV show. >> I'm literally going to do a TV show. And then when I launch the show, I'm going to do a press tour and I'm going to come on Colin and Samir. And then tonight I'm going to go on Kimmel. And then tomorrow I'm going to get an Uber XL for the day. Uh and I'm going to make press appearances in my Uber. I'm going to go on subway takes. Literally. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> How are you going to do that? >> Don't worry about it. [laughter] You'll see. >> Amazing. >> You'll see. I have ideas. And then are you actually going on Kimmel? >> No, not yet. I mean, this is my dream like Kimmel Fallon. If anything, he'll be in the Uber XL. [laughter] >> If anything, I'm I I realized if I can make the show independently, like a television show independently, I can do the press tour independently, >> and just do all of the things that I want to do >> in the same way that I've always done them, which is to just do them. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? Like, I'm just going to do it. I'm going to do all the things that I want to do. I have enough. And that is where the pro of doing this four years later is that I've built a name. I've built a career. I've built Subway Takes. And I can, you know, >> this new show coming out is news. >> Like Subway Takes Creator launches a new show that's actually old show. And and but it's like I can I do have the ability to >> call a publicist and say, "Hey, I'm launching a new show. I want to do this and that and this and that and I want to have the party and I want to invite these people." and they will probably come and I will feel like I have my day in the spotlight which is really what I was like essentially what I realized is I want to celebrate my content and my achievement in the traditional way of c like I don't want it to feel like I'm just doing >> like the perpetual content thing. I think the other thing about making the show now, four years later, is that it's a actually it's a very different time in America and making a show about the cultural diversity of America right now feels important in a way that it's always been important, but it feels like we're we're talking about the relationship to Bourdain. Bourdain was out in the world. you're in America and you're in New York City, >> but showing us cultural diversity and I think that is like a very >> a very important thing right now. >> Hey, you can travel the world without leaving New York City. Right. That's what I've really learned through the show. >> Yeah. >> Is I can be in Ghana. >> I can be in Pakistan. I can be in India. >> Right. >> It's it's really incredible. Like if you really I can be in Russia, right? >> Like >> that's one of my favorite episodes when they're taking shots. But there's a new one that's >> there's a new great >> that we just shot that's like it's just insane. >> Like I'm >> Is this the photo I saw of you in the bath house? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Little hats. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> So cool and so fun. Like just old world. Feels like the old world, you know, the home country >> and uh >> mother Russia, you know, >> it was cool. >> So what's your hopes for the show? like that as this season comes out >> that it's just it's like a popular TV show and that people tune in and watch it on their TVs and want more and that somebody says here's let's do season 2. What's amazing is that I have removed the goal like this has also been really freeing. My goal in the past would have been like I'm going to put it on YouTube so that XYZ can call me, streamer can call me, >> but I've removed that part. There's no like the the focus is making the best TV show possible on YouTube. >> To me, that is the future of television. And I want to be one of the first people to make TV quality formats on YouTube because it's going like this, you know what I mean? And young people are going home and they're turning on the TV and they're putting on YouTube >> and uh >> if they find me, that's awesome, you know? And if they learn how to watch long form programming, [laughter] if I become their bourdain, that's sick. Yeah. Like I hope that they have the desire for that, but maybe they've never seen anything like it. >> Totally. You know, they've seen >> travel shows, they've seen food shows, but maybe they haven't seen this like really empathetic perspective, >> right? >> That requires a commitment from both the host, the subject, and the audience. >> Yeah. they haven't seen someone who's uh deeply empathetic but also not afraid to have a take and an opinion. I think that was the wonderful thing about Bourdain is he would go to like a war torn country and be deeply empathetic um but also deeply opinionated about how he felt leaving that country. I mean >> I remember he went to Detroit in the Detroit episode >> and at the end of the episode he leaves and he's like honest he's like I think there's no hope for Detroit. >> [ __ ] >> So good. He's like, "It's long gone." But like, but he's like, "But it's not up to me." He's like, "I'm not living here and I'm not the one who's going to define Detroit." But he left it on that note of like from what I've seen. >> That's a brave note. >> Yeah. It's a brave note to say that. And of course Detroit was like, >> "All right, like go to hell." >> You know what I mean? But I think it was like it was he was deeply empathetic to like what was happening there while at the same time giving his opinion. And I think that's what >> younger generations I I don't know, but I feel like have not seen as much. >> Yeah. I'm I'm excited, man. I don't know. I want to be like at the forefront. It's It's always been this like punk attitude that I think I lost for a bit because I wanted the acceptance. >> But I've always been kind of a punk. I've always done whatever I wanted to do. I've always went with my gut and not wanting to be in a system or, you know, this is how like I used to hate when people said this is how we always do it. Like in my corporate jobs, >> this is how we've always done it. It be like well who cares how you've always done it, >> you know? And I think I became one of those people that wanted to join the this is how it's always done. This is the process. This is what you do. And then when I was in it, I was like, this makes no sense. And I can't keep pretending that it does. There's a new way. You got to be brave. You got to trust. You got to commit. You got to like >> success will change that though a little bit. >> Yeah. >> The punk attitude, right? Cuz like I mean you tell me how the feeling of cuz I'm I'm assuming like Subway takes is a like it's a massive hit. It's not like a all right I got a thing that kind of works. It's like you be you you made a thing that's like globally culturally relevant uh that brought fame money >> a Vanity Fair article >> a Vanity Fair article success in ways that is the thing you wanted. Right. I imagine that that changes a bit of the relationship with like the the punk feeling cuz you're like, "Yeah, tell me." >> But it was done through the punk feeling. >> Yeah. >> You know, I've never felt like an insider ever. Even now, I don't feel like an insider. Even now, I don't feel successful. >> That's the matter of that's like my own problem. [laughter] It's a big problem. But like I I'm always pushing myself to like s honestly it's about surprising myself. Like I'm I'm I love the idea of someone going that goddamn son of a [ __ ] did it again. [laughter] >> And that person who's saying that is me, >> right? >> That's what I want. Like that I love that feeling. And every time I get there I go, "Holy [ __ ] I can't believe I did that." Like I'm like shocked. Yeah. >> And it's really not a great feeling to chase cuz like >> you're always the the the carrot is always a little too far away, >> but it's like a really fulfill fulfilling sort of thing, you know, and I and I think that is what makes me work so hard is that I just don't have any goal beside entertaining myself, having a good time inspiring other people kind of, you know, whether that means >> inspiring a creator to get off the couch and just do it >> or inspiring a taxi driver to be like, you know what, maybe I should try standup comedy, you know? Like, >> yeah, >> like there's there's just so many levels of it uh to it. And just I mean it's the cheesiest corniest thing to say, but like leave the world a little bit better every single day, you know? >> Yeah. contribute to the optimism and positivity and hope that we see in the smallest gestures. Whether it's looking locking eyes with the barista and saying thank you, you know, or like thanking the flight attendant on the way off a flight >> or giving the server a 30% tip instead of a 20% tip for absolutely no reason. Just these little things that >> kind of like leave people feeling a little better than >> Yeah. >> they might be. >> You've talked about a couple times in this episode this like 8020 thing about building a format and I was curious to actually dig into the 80%. for a second and you've made formats that are like universally interesting and I actually think that's pretty hard right now on the internet uh to make something that a lot of people will be interested in. How do you think about a format that is 80% there? >> Well, I think you got to start with the premise and that like needs no explanation. >> I get in the cab, I tell the driver, take me to their favorite place and that's what we do and we go on these crazy adventures. That first line needs to define the entire format. >> You see it in your head. You're like, I know exactly what this guy's talking about. It's a live talk show on the subway take where people give or the subway take. It's a live talk show on the subway take. It's a live talk show on the subway take where people give their hottest takes zero questions. You I get you know you see it. >> And so I think part of it is is coming up with that very clear idea. And I think that is like pretty much at least that's like 50% of of the thing, >> right? >> And then it's like how are you going to shoot it? What's it going to look like? Keep the meter running. Camera in the front, camera in the back, no lighting, super raw, zooms and just like handy cams, no stability. Um, essentially point a camera at something interesting and follow it. That's what that is. M. >> So now you're like you've learned how you you figured out how you're going to shoot it. >> I think now you're at 80%. >> I really think or at least 70. >> So you know is it like and then actually maybe that's 70%. 10% is like is it made for Instagram? Is it made for YouTube? >> Figure out your distribution. Like that means aka is it going to be long? Is it going to be short? Now you're 80%. So to me that's enough to go figure out what the show is. Like that's enough for me to shoot the show. >> Clear premise is really good. >> The clear premise, I think, figuring out how you're going to do it and how you want it to look. Like I want all my shows to look super professional, which is why I don't use a phone, >> right? >> But there's a version of Keep the Meter Running that's shot on the phone. It's a different show, >> right? >> But there's a there is a version of it that is like POV, you know, I'm never on camera. It's always a driver. There's no crew. It's just me. Like there is a version of that show that works on a phone, >> right? >> Different show. >> But like every like like I think that is what you said about momentum. >> Yeah. >> You will lose momentum trying to figure out every step, >> right? >> At least in unscripted shows. maybe scripted a little bit different, but even then I would say like figure out 90% of the format on scripted shows and then go figure out the rest out there cuz I think I think losing the momentum and what you said publishing the idea while it's still hot and you're excited about it. Both of these things I think those are worth uh going out and doing it. >> Yeah. and and you will figure it out, you know, like I think about it like a test kitchen like McDonald's or Doritos or whatever. Like they're constantly putting these ideas out and they're and then when they hit they're huge, >> you know, and like you might get cool ranch >> very close to you're like what is what the [ __ ] is cool ranch? [laughter] Somebody went 80% and was like it's a ranch and then they were like well how do we make it a little bit better and like they had all these ones and they were like what if it's cool if >> it cooler ranch? No, not >> I have no idea. I'm pretty sure I would know. >> It's called Cool Ranch. It's [ __ ] good. And no one knows what it is. >> It doesn't taste like ranch. [laughter] >> I don't know what it is, but >> not taste anything like it's so good. >> That's for sure. >> It's so good. Yeah. >> Or like Mountain Dew. >> What is that? >> Yeah. What flavor even is that? [laughter] >> What is that? >> Yeah, totally. >> It doesn't taste like Mountain Dew. Now it does. But actually, I don't even know if this is a good analogy, but it is a good [laughter] >> I actually don't even remember what the analogy was for. It was about getting 80% of the way. >> I would assume someone took Mountain Dew to 80% and they were like, "It's lemon lime cola." And someone was like, "Um, >> it's Mountain Dew." >> And they Well, they added something. >> Yeah. Like >> what if it was a little more green? >> Yeah. Or [laughter] >> or like doesn't taste like lemon lime at all >> or like I don't know, maybe they added [laughter] an orange. Who know? Who knows what they did? But >> there's just like I don't know. I I think so many people contact me and they're like, "I have this idea for a show. I have this idea for a show." I go, "Go." What's your advice? My advice is go do it. They're like, "Would love to get your thoughts." Guess who I never get thoughts from? Anyone. [laughter] >> Literally, there's no there's no need for thoughts. >> There's actually no need for thoughts cuz actually the world will tell you if it's good or not pretty immediately. And you'll know when you make it. You'll just know. you'll know like is this good or and the other thing about thoughts is that everyone has a different opinion, >> right? >> And I think it's just going to confuse you more. I know a lot of people that before they do something they get everyone's advice. I'm not one of those people. I think it's served me sometimes well, sometimes not well. Like I've definitely had regrets in my life, but those regrets are not >> about the content I'm making. They're about like should I have purchased an apartment in this neighborhood [laughter] or or you know like my and not consulted a real estate expert and be like no my gut says >> right >> it's going up and my gut was wrong [laughter] I'm talking about but yeah I don't know there's there's just like again there are so many forces at play your brain is designed to make you be safe >> and to make you be comfortable >> and to make you not do the risky thing. And it's hard to fight perfectionism, but I also think that the audience appreciates seeing the seams, seeing the behind the scenes, >> like seeing the looseness of it. And I think that's why young people like creators so much cuz like we're sitting here, we're talking, they all relate to us in a way. they might see themselves in us in a way whereas traditional entertainment they like there's still some sort of level of like the veil is not lifted like you know what I mean and you don't even manicure >> I don't share a ton about my personal life >> but like the veil isn't fully like there's still like some stuff like I speak freely and candidly >> and I'm not like beholden to anyone or anything >> aside from my own vibe for the creators who are watching or listening and thinking, okay, I'm already in this world of punk distribution of like, yeah, I I published a Tik Tok, Instagram, I might make what I would think of as a TV show for YouTube, but what does it actually look like to go from the format that is now 100% with Keep the Meter running, like it's fully baked, it's on Instagram and Tik Tok, and go, "Okay, now I want to make this for TV." Because my assumption when I watch Keep the Meter running is like you kind of just roll up to the restaurant, you've got two camera ops and you're just like is it cool if we film here? All good. Does that change when you think let's make it for TV? >> Yeah. Yeah. So the first 20 episodes which were all short form sixinute episodes I would literally just go outside and hail cabs until someone said yes. >> So I didn't know [laughter] anything about what we were going to do, where we were going to go, who I was going to be talking to. Zero. With the TV version, I think it's really important that every driver is a star and bring something new to the table because I'm thinking about it as a season. And in the season, in the season arc, in the same way that Bourdain walks away from every episode having reflections and changing, I want that to happen for myself. So, if I go out and I just like do it the old way, I might get five Pakistani cab drivers who have very similar stories. >> You know, I work really hard, my family's back home, blah blah blah, blah blah blah. Like that's a very common story and I'm got [ __ ] over by the medallion. Like that's a sad story and it's a common story and it's not a story that should be ignored, but I don't want to make 10 episodes of that story. When doing this season, >> we did a casting process and I wasn't involved in that because I do want to come in fresh and like not know anything other than their name, where they're from, and what they like. But we had uh this amazing woman, Harley Shaw. She went out and she literally has taken over a hundred cabs and made videos uh like casting videos with at least 60 of them. >> Uh and has you know said this is what I like about this person. This is what like this is why you you would be a great episode like ideas. And that was something I've never done in my life cuz I haven't done that for Subway Takes or anything else. I've never done casting. So, um, we did a casting process and the plan like we upgraded our equipment, you know, we went from FX3s to FX6s. >> Sound stays the same. Actually, we never had a sound person. >> So, we did, you know, all the short form episodes, no sound person, so now we have sound. >> Uh, there's some BTS photography that happens. And there's a loose plan because we don't have like now that the shoots are so much more expensive because you have to factor in the casting costs, the equipment costs, the additional crew members costs, the follow car that we rent, all the stuff that now makes the shoot day go from 2,000 to >> a lot more. Do you also have to like alert the restaurants, make sure they're aware >> because we don't have time to lose. Like so if if a restaurant cuz we've been turned down in the old version and it's okay, we just go to another one. But now it's like if we get turned down >> then we've just lost 4 hours and we got to find a new restaurant and they're like we might have to push the shoot. So there's a lot more planning producing but again I keep myself pure. I don't know anything about the driver. I do know what they are. Like I have an idea of what I want to get out of it. So like Homero is super romantic and in love with his fiance >> and loves dancing. >> So I kind of know what we got to do. Yeah. >> I'm like, you know, I'm not romantic >> and my wife probably thinks I'm a boring loser. Every [laughter] time a 700 p.m. comes around, I just, you know, I put the baby to bed and then I watch television. And that's the opposite of Homera who's like taking his fiance salsa dancing and going to the Dominican Republic and he's a and he's also the opposite of a so story. He's like I'm happy and I'm spending all the money I make. Like I love spending money. I have the ability to spend money. So like in that episode I'm like okay so I can learn how to be a better lover. Like that is what I want to get out of this. Like and I actually genuinely want to understand how Homero the Ecuadorian cab driver is such a good lover. Like what the hell? Why am I not like this? Like this is a dad. This is a father that is giving me advice on love and relationships and the pursuit of happiness. So >> like before going into it, I was like, "Okay, that's what I want to get out of home era." And then you've got um uh Kakandra who's like has this super entrepreneurial spirit and I'm an entrepreneur but like he has way more difficult uh circumstances and more projects than I have going on. So I'm like how are you balancing all these projects? You're an author, you play the flute, you have like these YouTube, like what can I learn from you about multitasking, about p pursuing creative pursuits and also what can I do for you? Like you have this desire to do standup comedy. Like I can make that happen really easily. Like that's something that might be hard for you to do, but it's something that's easy for me to do. And so, you know, what phone call can I make to get you on stage? So it is um it's more complicated and but it's not that much more complicated. You know what I mean? It's really not that much. >> Yeah. Because if you over complicate it too much then like that momentum fades and you're back in the same spot. >> We're doing the bare minimum essentially. You know what I mean? Not overproducing. >> Of course we could have interviewed more cab drivers. Of course we could have found like more perfect subjects. Of course, we wouldn't be making decisions the day before, the night of the shoot as to like this restaurant hasn't confirmed yet, >> right? >> Like it's not that produced. Like there's still uh there's still like a lot of unpredictability >> and spontaneity and pivoting, you know, that happens within the show. Um, I wanted to ask you about your role as well as generally you think creators role in politics especially like you were very involved with Zoran Mani here in New York City. Um, you had Tim Waltz on the show, correct? You had Kamla on but didn't air her show. Um just curious about as the country gets more uh divisive in the world of politics uh our role as creators when it comes to the political landscape and and even engaging with politicians. >> Look, I think everything is political and I think one side of the aisle is very good at content and I would say that's the right. They're good at memes. They're good at podcasts. They're good at sensationalism. They're good at Twitter. They're good at They're very good. And I would say the left is not so good at it now because everything is political. every choice we make, the things that we buy, the things that we say, the guests that we book, the platforms that we choose to distribute on, I think that we do have a responsibility to at least at the very least be responsible. So, if you don't agree with Nick Fuentes, you probably shouldn't have Nick Fuentes on your show. And that's because he's literally like a Mounty. Like, it's truly [laughter] like there's just no justification. you go. Yeah. Yeah. Know both sides. I'm like, yeah, but that side is really bad. Like, you can't have a Nazi on your show. I'm sorry. I don't care who you are. >> So, we have a responsibility to to at least be responsible. So, we can say things without saying anything. That's how I think about it. Like, I have a responsibility with Subway Takes to book who I book. And I want a diversity of voices. I want a variety of opinions, but I don't need to platform someone who is hateful or misogynistic or islamophobic or anti-semitic or any of the things that is being political in my opinion. That is engaging in politics, having a a line. Now, do we have to voice our opinions or participate in boycots or uh or like even digital movements and petitions and all that stuff? I I would say that there is uh I think as a citizen you should get involved. So now how that translates like how how are Colin and Samir as citizens >> versus creators, you have to gauge your own level of like what you're comfortable sharing. Yeah. >> You know what I mean? Cuz it is also like a choice and then all of a sudden you are lumped into a category. And you know like with Subway takes ever since Zoron who I felt strongly about personally. >> Yeah. >> That was Kareem. And I was like, I'm going to use my platform to support this. And that was a decision I made. And um a decision I made because it's the [ __ ] mayor of New York, the city I live in, the city I love, and the city that I believe in and want to raise my family in. And that's who I choose as that's who I've voted for. Ever since that win, like I've been called by every congressperson in New York, every senator in New York, mayor from Michigan, governors from other states, political organizations, and I'm like, I I I have made the decision to just say no right now for at least that small portion of my political life, which is who do I book on subway takes? I I I think you know it's like almost like the genius out of the bottle and I am trying to put it back in and I think I'm succeeding at putting it back in by being like look yes they're like we you know you had Zoron on and I would love to be on too and I'm like I and I explain I had Zoron on cuz he's the mayor of New York like you're running for something in New Jersey. I don't live in New Jersey and I understand that you see me as an ally and I want to be an ally, but I don't I'm not a I'm not a political pundit and like there's only so many slots on the show and the show is an entertainment show. That's what it is. So I think it's like it it we do have a responsibility to at least be responsible and I would say that if you are engaged in politics on a personal level, I don't think it hurts to engage with politics on a on a public level, but you don't have to be involved in everything. That's another thing that I'm learning is that like I'm consuming everything and I have an opinion on everything, but I can't publicly >> engage in every political decision in this country, >> right? >> That's not my job. >> Yeah. So yeah, I mean it is it is really like that is kind of I guess the answer is that like we do have a responsibility and to engage in various ways whether that means silently or proactively. Um, and I do think that because the right is so good at the internet that, you know, creators especially on the left or in the middle or whatever you want to call it, moderates even, should figure out how to use these platforms in a way that can combat extremists. And when I say the right, I really mean extremists. I don't even mean like >> Mitt Romney. >> Yeah, I miss Mitt Romney. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> God, that guy. >> I mean, it's interesting just on the note of late night even with Co Bearer, you know, in CBS and, you know, a bit ago uh not being able to air James Terrio, his his interview with with Democratic candidate James Terrio because of a rule. >> Yeah. The Fair [snorts] Air Act. >> That's the Fair Air Act. >> Yeah. uh which is such an interesting thought meaning like they have to give equal time to both sides that that that in this modern world of late night does not apply to >> Yeah. And it made me super grateful. >> Yeah. It does not apply to your show. >> I'm like great >> even more reason to never want to be on TV. Literally I saw that and then it ripped on YouTube. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It put on YouTube. But anyway, I mean like more people would watch watch Co Bear on YouTube than on TV. >> Yeah. But but it just >> Yes, I understand. >> It's not he's not missing out on anything is what I'm saying cuz it's free and available worldwide. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> You know, and so but but it made me be like holy. >> If anything, the story made it just crush on YouTube. >> But the new world, I'm just like I'm in the right place, man. >> I'm not trying to get to that side anymore. That that is the biggest thing. >> Like I don't want anyone to control me and tell me what I can can and can't do. Yeah. >> And yeah, I I just think um >> that's crazy. >> Yeah, crazy. [music]