Hello insiders, I'm Lauren Selinsky, head of content and community at YouTube shopping and this is our podcast series for you the creators. Today I have Melissa Goodwin who is a fourth generation deal hunter, designer, and brand builder with over two decades of experience building companies, traveling the world as a speaker, and leading women in business. Her mission is simple but powerful. Help women feel good in their clothes so they can feel powerful in their lives. Ooh, what a statement. I love that. So Melissa, for people who maybe aren't lucky enough to know your content um tell us about yourself. Tell the audience what kind of content you make on your channel. Yeah, well I come from a lineage of deal hunters. My great grandma, claim to fame, she would shop the very first department store in America, Wanamakers, in Philly, Pennsylvania. And for her, she put dressing for success on the map. That was her mentality and of course her daughter, my grandmother, could shop J.C. Penney and basically they'd be handing cash back to her at the cash register. She was so good. So for me, I really grew up believing that good style is leverage. And fast forward many years later, I was building a leadership development company and cooking dinner one night. My two little girls, Olive and Ivy, are sitting on the couch and I'm overhearing them listen to the toy hauls on YouTube. And I venture over to the TV and something in that moment just clicked for me where I knew there was something about this platform that I needed to contribute to. And two years later, uh between corporate meetings and carpool, I decided to start my channel because I knew I could help women shop strategically in stores and this was the place I wanted to do it. Amazing. You're like the the evolution of couponers. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, for YouTube. >> Yes, exactly. This is a perfect segue. Let's talk about YouTube shopping. At what point in your career did you start to use this new product feature? Yeah, so in 2018, again, I was a corporate woman stepping into YouTube and the place I knew I needed to take my audience. That's why I wear a blazer today. >> Yep, thank you. Thank you. Uh the place I knew I needed to take my audience was in store. Very few people, like there there was a lot of halls and shopping content, but no one was really taking you in store and I knew how to take a woman into the places to find the best deals. And that did really really well in 2018, but I wasn't part of sort of the influencer affiliate culture. So I found a lot of friction around shopping in store with my audience and figuring out how to link things. Not to say that linking in description was bad or not profitable, but it just felt so clunky to me. So I ended up taking a little bit of time away. You know, we had 2020 and then all the things, but YouTube just kept coming back and I just knew I needed to be present on the platform, but it needed to be easier and it was really a perfect storm because what was it 2023 I decided to really go full steam ahead into this shopping and fashion content bringing sort of the deal hunter in me through and YouTube shopping had launched. And for me, there was no better match, no better seamlessness than to be able to stand with a woman on screen in a store and also let her simply click a button to shop what I was showing her. And I think it's also worth mentioning cuz Melissa, you brought this up that the old way of doing things was links in the description box. It takes viewers away from your content, takes them away from your watch time, and it takes them away from the platform. With YouTube shopping and the way this product works, you are tagging within the video so your viewers can click on the product that you feature Yeah. and not be taken out of your video. It remains picture in picture so they can experience the literal shopping with you as they continue to watch your content. >> Well, and for me, I just knew that was the experience I wanted to have as a viewer. That was the experience I dreamed about my audience having where she could really experience the inspiration all the way to the action in one seamless, almost ecosystem or one seamless experience of the video that I was showing her. I mean, it really is experience is the perfect word for it, but I will tell you, my audience did not understand and they did not like it and there was a lot of friction from the audience side as well. >> Really? Yeah. So that's a great thing to bring up. A lot of a lot of creators may feel nervous at first to try a different monetization method like shopping. What would your advice be to them in that instance? >> Yeah, so there's a couple things that need to happen or let me say it this way. There's a creator process to go through and then there's the audience process. Your so the YouTube audience when it comes to this type of content, so I'm doing fashion, home, a little bit of beauty, right? They are trained and they are used to the old way of doing things which we talked about. It's linking the products in the description. Some there's a lot of very well polished formats for that. And so the process or the stage that your audience has to go through is realizing one, how to use the platform a little bit differently and then two, how trustworthy it is because they don't necessarily trust. And I had a lot of people commenting, I don't know what YouTube shopping is. I don't know where these links are. Why why here and not the description? And there are even mean comments. So you as a creator, you just have to sort of see the vision. And that vision for me is really, what if I could give you one seamless, frictionless experience of a video where you can actually open up your app at the store that we're in together and we can shop it alongside each other. What if we get to um have this one ongoing conversation without you having to go to different places or find different things. At the end of the day, here's what it is. It's satisfaction. Let me just put it this way. When you can shop, especially the deals, which are sort of an urgency type of content and create this moment of satisfaction. Uh and we can talk about time stamps. So for example, if I'm sitting having a having a if I'm if I'm in a store showing a piece and then all of a sudden on the screen, the piece pops up with the price and all they have to do is click it. What happens is I've now completed the experience for her. She then gets to have the aha moment where she can say, "Wow, I get to watch it, I get to experience it through Melissa and now I get to buy it." All in one moment. I don't think people understand how powerful that is. And I also think you bring up a really good point, right? Which is educating the audience. It's a new feature. It's a new way for them to engage with you. >> Yes. >> new convenience you're providing them. But if they don't know how to use it, there may be some hesitancy. So one of the things we definitely talk to creators about doing is in your content explaining to the audience how to shop, how to use the feature, and I know that's something you do really well, which again provides that satisfaction versus the hesitation. >> Yeah, well I mean, I try to. I think I've messed up lots of times. >> No, no. In fact, many times I think I I'm like, "Sh- click on that YouTube shopping button." And most people are like, "What the heck is a YouTube shopping button?" And then finally I had to ask you all as a team, "Am I saying this right? Uh is there a YouTube shopping button?" Because for me, there you know, there it should be popping up on screen and they can just click that button. And there's still people who ask, but you know, everyone is going to have their own journey with technology. So you as a creator, this is part of you understanding you just have to be patient with that. YouTube is a long game and when we compare YouTube to the other platforms out there, there is no one who has an ecosystem as well designed as YouTube and I really believe that. There are different features of different platforms that people can shop on, but when we look at the entire ecosystem of what YouTube is or has designed from shorts to long form to now YouTube shopping and all the other features, of course, the experience that we as creators can make and design for our audience is extraordinary. When it comes to making content, now that you're utilizing YouTube shopping as a strong monetization method, has that changed how you approach creating your content? Meaning, do you think about the concept first? Do you think about the products first? What merchants you want to work with? How does it all come together? Yeah, great question. I I actually see it as like sort of I've got like a three-part methodology that I use for myself. The first is it has to start with my heart. It has to be something that I'm drawn to. Um recently, uh I found out Saks Off 5th was going bankrupt and you know, the heart, me emotionally, the emotional connection to that is like, "Whoa, there's so much happening in the retail landscape. There's so many good deals to be found in Saks Off 5th. This is something I need to do. Before I even knew if they were linked up with YouTube shopping or if anyone would even want it. You know what I mean? So, if for me everything has to start with a heart, that emotional connection. That moment dates all the way back to my great-grandmother walking with her three children down the streets of Philadelphia to Wanamaker's, the first department store, right? It has to connect in with what I love, what I believe in. This is a universal truth for all creators. But after that, then it's time to like go to the art. So, it's heart and then for me it's about the art. What is the format? What is the self-expression that only I can deliver here in this video? And I've gotten I mean, I've taken risks with different formats. And I think as a creator, you have to be okay taking risks. So, for example, I used to just be a talking head and I would be rolling store. Easy-peasy. I wasn't I was not talking and filming in store. Are you kidding me? That's so scary. But now I'm at this place where it's like I feel good as a creator with my art trying dual capture. Now I'm shopping in store. I'm waving when people are watching me. Like how That's just my own evolution. So, it starts with the heart, then it goes to the art. But the last piece is the most important piece and this is the one that took me the longest as a creator. And that is the cart. That is where the business side of your channel comes about. And I see and talk to so many creators like me who has so much imposter syndrome around the cart, around asking for the sale or just simply pointing out to your viewer, you can buy this piece right here. You can have this. I mean, ultimately my niche is access. I am here to give my ladies access to beautiful, incredible things that they can leverage to build a beautiful, incredible life. And if I don't have the cart, then I am doing them a disservice. So, the cart for me is about service. It's about saying, yes, I have everything listed in the YouTube shopping button or the YouTube shopping shelf and you should look at it. You don't have to buy it, but I invite you to look at it and make a purchase and see what it does to your life. See how it changes how you look at yourself in the mirror. I love that you brought up heart first >> cuz I think something that is so unique on this platform is the high level of trust, right? That audience has with creators, right? It's very unique to our platform. And then I love how you marry that with the convenience, right? So, if they trust you because you're putting the heart first. >> Yeah. And then you're offering the service, to your point, it's the full life cycle of how they can engage with you further. >> Yes. >> And that's a wonderful way of looking at utilizing YouTube shopping as an as a new product feature, as a new monetization method. >> Oh, yeah. And there's a lot of bait that you can take as a creator to make money on this platform. Doesn't even have to be YouTube shopping. There's a lot of things you can do to sell yourself out if you lead with cart. If you don't lead with your heart, you can get into a lot of yucky, murky waters where you just can lose trust in an instant. So, for me I always see it as like I have to be okay standing, metaphorically speaking, like standing in her house showing her the piece saying, you should definitely touch, feel, and maybe try this one on. And if I can't do that in good conscience, I can't show or link the piece. Have I made mistakes? Of course. There are things that I've linked to that maybe didn't show up to be the best things. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but there are definitely there's definitely a level of integrity here that's that's really important. That's why my little three-part system just works for me. I love it and I think we see that in the most the more successful creators on YouTube shopping really hold true to it has to be about what I believe in. >> Yeah. Otherwise, I can't sell it. >> Yeah. >> Because that trust, once it's gone, it's gone. So, I think that's a really great point. With YouTube in general, one of the most beautiful things is there's so many formats available to creators, right? From live, long form, shorts. Specifically with YouTube shopping, when do you decide whether to use long form or short? And let's start with long form first, right? Those are better for hauls, shop with me, deep diving into that shopping experience. Can you speak a bit more on when you utilize long form? Yeah, I love long form. First of all, I feel like that's my favorite type of content. Trust is currency. So, when we look at long form versus short form, um trust is built in minutes, not seconds. That's my philosophy. So, I always lead with long form. I think about what experience I want to create on video. I start with that as a long form format. And then from there, that's where shorts I think get really fun. >> [snorts] >> There's a lot of channels though that do short form so well, they don't want to do long form. That's not their thing. So, I certainly don't want to poo-poo short form because for me short form is sort of the hook. It's the hook that leads into the longer form content. Um I also though, this is where this is where YouTube shopping is really fun because for me when I look at short form, it's such a bite-size experience, but I think people are looking for those quick hits. And no one really gets to complete the experience if the item isn't sitting there to buy. So, I watch a lot of beauty content and it drives me crazy when the amazing products they're showing aren't linked. Like and I know TikTok does this really well, but for YouTube it's like it's all sitting right there. It's a full cycle of satisfaction for the viewer on shorts. So, for me shorts is the hook. Um I do want to say this, too. YouTube shopping is fabulous for shorts, but the more fabulous feature I think on shorts is the recommended video or is it called watch the longer version? I'm not sure what the the feature's called. It's that little feature below the title that allows the viewer to go to the long form video. There are so many moments where you see quick snapshots of videos on shorts, but no one links it to the longer video and I think that's the real magic when it comes to marrying shorts and long form. Because if I can hook you in with a short and you're curious and you can just click that button to go watch my long form, there will be the YouTube shopping shelf of all the products and the full experience. Yeah, and I think one of the things that we tell creators best practices is for shorts really to utilize it as one product that you're driving urgency to, linking back to the long form where you can deep dive in that tutorial, that haul, that longer form content. Additionally, what we also hear creators do a lot is look at their long form content, analyze where there's peaks in viewer time or peaks in offer clicks, and actually break those out into shorts because they knew and they saw that there was a lot of interest there. So, I think there's a really interesting dichotomy between both of those format features. So, is that something that you've experienced or done, Melissa? >> Yes. I mean, I think that actually what you're getting at is the most important experience. Sometimes we as creators get caught up in the views or the subscribers. Is this going to be good enough to go viral? But actually, I think the more important analytic is is this video giving them a place to take action. And that action is either shopping sticker or it is a go watch the long form version of this video. And I'm glad you brought up stickers because that is a really interesting product feature that has launched on our shorts in which is an actual sticker of the product that you're talking about will appear on your short. And actually, in an experiment in the US, we saw there was a 40% increase in offer clicks on the shopping stickers versus the shopping button as it was previously designed. So, we know there's a lot of engagement there, which I think is exactly to your point. They engage with that short and it drives them to the longer form content where they can sit with it. We also hear that there's seven or eight different touch points before a consumer actually makes a purchase, right? So, I think having that long form content, which is so unique to YouTube, really does encourage the full life cycle for the viewer of being able to research, consider, and then make that purchase. >> Yeah. Well, and it's cute, too. It feels very gamified. It feels like YouTube has personality. Some people don't understand the stickers. Sometimes the stickers end up in different places. It doesn't matter. It catches their eye and people are able to sort of engage with that. And it is all about um it's also I think the sticker is something that lightens a bit of the seriousness, too, of the whole platform. You know, you watch a short and there's this cute little sticker sitting there and it just feels like um it's just warm and friendly, I feel like. And it's something. Like it it has personality. It's it's bringing a different personality to shorts through uh a different way to engage, I guess. With long-form content, another amazing product feature we have is timestamps. Timestamps allow you to actually pinpoint different products throughout the long-form video and actually have that product appear to click during your content. And actually, we saw that there was in an experiment in the US 43% more clicks on products in a video tagged with timestamps than with description links alone. So, it's >> it. an effective way to engage your audience. How do you utilize timestamps? Well, I I'm a good person to ask because I am an absolute control freak when it comes to timestamps. This is the one thing I do not outsource. I will sit for a good, sometimes hour, making sure all of my links and my timestamps are where they're supposed to be when I'm uploading the video only because it is the most important part of the experience. I I do obsess over this idea that my viewer is sitting on her couch or she's watching me on her phone and when I am talking about a piece, it pops up. Like that is such a seamless, beautiful, satisfying experience. It is It is all about design, right? And YouTube has done such a good job with this. It is all about design that that gets to be an experience that she has and that the timing of it is orchestrated. It just For me, it just makes sense and it it works. She clicks. It's a true shop-along experience. >> Yeah. Additionally, when products are tagged using the timestamp feature, it will appear in living room devices. So, we know we see a lot of folks now watching YouTube in their living room and you as a creator utilizing timestamps allows that to appear on a living room device for viewers to shop in that way as well. Thank God. >> [laughter] >> I think now looking back on my channel, most of the people who were confused about YouTube shopping were watching via living room. So, YouTube's done an awesome job making that experience work for the living room devices. So many people watch on their TVs, which is awesome. And and I think the QR code now and just the whole experience of the living room is something that a lot of creators can leverage. What are some of the pitfalls that you see with creators who are maybe not utilizing the product feature in the best way? Yeah. Well, the first is they're not using it. That's That's huge and maybe it's awareness. They don't know it exists, but I think if you're a creator, a fairly success- I see a lot of very successful creators not using it at all and I think they think it's altruistic to not use links, but it really isn't. So, shift the mindset and say, "Wow, like this this is actually >> [snorts] >> um you know, when we talk about training or facilitating a breakthrough in the coaching industry, that's my that's my other career, right? The coaching industry. When we talk about facilitating a breakthrough, getting to an answer, having an aha moment, you experience and you go through the inspiration and the question asking to get to the aha. That is what YouTube shopping is providing us. It's providing us an experience where we get to watch the product through the creator and then we get to experience it ourselves and then we get to take action and buy it. So, I think using it is number one. There's also, of course, we talked about integrity. There are like nothing is worth losing the trust. So, if you start with the cart, it's going to end in a lot of trouble because people will feel that. This is all about energy and frequency and if you can start with what you're passionate about, I can't help think about the Olympic gold medal ice skater, Alyssa Liu, who just won the gold. Baller. Baller. She didn't get on the ice for the medal and I can't stop thinking about it because it's such a universal truth and I think it answers this question perfectly. She was obsessed with her performance and with her experience she was about to have with her audience. And it's so perfect for us YouTube creators because I remember listening to Tara Lipinski announce as she was skating and she's like, "She's so light. She's so airy. She's not here for the gold and in return, she's probably going to get it." Right? And I think that's that is the entire truth here when it comes to if you're not using or if you need more encouragement on how to do this right as a creator including YouTube shopping, it's not about the gold medal, i.e. the money you're going to make on YouTube shopping or your views. It's truly about you doing it because you love it and it's between you and your relationship with the audience and I would say the number one thing to watch out for is protect whatever you can protect that relationship with your audience. Going back to long-form content, we found there's over 1 billion views on videos with the word haul in the title. Wow. People are there to shop, right? So, can you talk a bit about the different types of long-form shopping styles that you see out there or that you've even done yourself? >> Mhm. Yeah, [clears throat] I mean, there's it's so much fun, right? It goes back to like my living room in 2016 where my girls are watching these toy unboxings. There's so much satisfaction and I think it way back in the day, that format of unboxing, getting the big Zara box delivered and the women opening it up and trying it all all on, you get to live vicariously through them. That's such a powerful format. That format will never get old. And now, you can actually tag all of the products that they are unboxing. >> Yeah. So, your viewers at home can easily shop what you just shopped. >> Which again, look at that evolution. So, we go from 2014 watching a YouTuber unbox and hoping that you can search on the app or, you know, of course, a lot of them would link it in the description, but it would break up that whole experience of watching them to now, you can literally have your app open while you're watching them unbox things. Now, I don't do a lot of unboxings. I'm bringing that up as an example. I think there's a lot of really great formats. I do think the big format right now is is filming in store. Um I had an instinct in 2014 and I was late to the game of like, "Get on into Costco. Go. Go into Costco and see what they've got." Not from the food or even the deals, but like go see what kind of fashion they have. And that's such a great example. There's so much big box store filming, but a lot of people are in stores. So, I took that inspiration and I went in store and whether it's you're filming just the B-roll and you're narrating from your studio or, you know, now you're in store actually with someone filming you or you can be filming yourself almost like a vlog. There's so many creative outlets for the experience of shopping and I and I think people really enjoy all of them, don't you? I mean, I think that. >> Well, I also think what is a real misconception, right? Is that you have to have every single product that you're recommending, right? You have to have it, you have to buy it yourself, have it in person. Oh, yeah. >> So, I think, you know, thinking about yeah, thinking about alternate ways to capture shoppable content, whether it's in store, whether it's to your point, shopping online and having that scroll in the background as you talk about products. >> That's right. There's so many ways now for creators to demonstrate the value of a product without even needing to have it in hand. Oh, I'm so glad you brought that up because that was and has been a huge problem for me. I don't love the waste of ordering things and then having to return them and even some people when I do are like, "Well, why don't you Do you keep these?" Well, I mean, it's a business. So, no, I don't keep a majority of the things. I'm really of service to my audience collectively and what I think they would love and the best deals of fashion, but when I'm in store, it it just cuts the waste and it cuts the problem of having all of these things ordered to your house and it's more fun. There's better energy, too. So, I would say like a good piece of advice is start experimenting and change up your format, but and I I'm going to sound a little or I'm going to get a little deeper here, watch your nervous system because you really have to find a format that aligns with your nervous system. If filming in store feels so scary, don't do it because you won't be able to bring out your best self. And I've I've evolved. I mean, I've had so much evolution here from filming in my studio and just B-rolling in store all the way to now, I can film in store and feel safe. My body feels safe filming in store. You know what I mean? But like a creator needs to watch their their nervous system and not feel the pressure to go outside the bounds of their format. But there's so many different formats to choose. I would say find the one that makes your heart light up that you're like, "I can do that and I can actually maybe do that even better." That's the ones for me that I've had the most success with. I love that. That's a great That's a great way of looking at it. I think again to your earlier point, it has to start with the content first, right? And then that convenience, that that flywheel can really begin of ending in the purchase. You know, with the different formats, long-form versus short-form, we see, right? Long-form maybe is better for those higher consideration, higher price point items, or to have that space to give really detailed demonstrations, whereas shorts can really push that urgent moment that you have to get it now. Is that how you utilize the two different format types? Yeah, I mean I'm I'm working on this. I'm trying to get better at this because I think short form is the perfect marriage to high urgency content, especially as it relates to deals. If something is out, say I see something at a Target or at one of my favorite stores, and it is one of the best dupes or deals, like it's so perfect for a short form piece. And the fact that then you can just link it and they can purchase it and it's one and done. Versus the longer form, where you do get a, you know, a month in review at this big box store, or you get a full collection of white shirts for every style type. There is more depth to it and there's more uh time I get with my audience to be able to talk about why this is important and make those deeper connections. Have you found that you're engaging more with your audience now that you're tagging products because they're able to ask you things and recommend things or you can ask them what they want to see, like Yes. >> Have you seen that change? Well, yeah, because I'm actually more engaged. I feel I really do believe that me being able to link piece is me being of service. So yes, I can show you a piece. That that's fun and I'm excited and you see my energy and this is going to look great on you, Lauren. But if I can actually say, and here you go. Like here here's how to get it. It for me I don't think about it as, "Cha-ching, I just made money, yay." It's really not about that. It's like I just hopefully served you so that you can feel really good in your body. And you can feel really good in your style. And that feels really good. Yeah, so yes. Yes. Melissa, thank you so much for sharing your experience on YouTube shopping. It's been really helpful and hopefully you guys find it helpful, too, as you start using this new product feature. Thank you so much and I can't wait to buy something from you. >> Aw, thanks. Well, thank you for having me.