---
title: 'What is the Biggest Mistake Marvel has Made?'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=J99OiagJJvk'
video_id: 'J99OiagJJvk'
date: 2026-06-28
duration_sec: 0
---

# What is the Biggest Mistake Marvel has Made?

> Source: [What is the Biggest Mistake Marvel has Made?](https://youtube.com/watch?v=J99OiagJJvk)

## Summary

This is a live panel discussion on the Screen Crush Rewind channel, where host Ryan Ary and guests Colton, Alex, and Whitney debate what the single biggest mistake the Marvel Cinematic Universe has made. The conversation covers corporate strategy, character mishandling, and fan criticism, with heavy audience participation via super chats. The panelists offer dissenting opinions on everything from Kang's introduction to the lack of Avengers movies in Phase 4.

### Key Points

- **Falcon/Winter Soldier Should Have Been A Movie** [3:26] — Colton argues that 'Falcon and the Winter Soldier' should have been a movie directly following Endgame, serving as a proper debut for Sam Wilson as Captain America on the big screen.
- **Kill Ant-Man in Quantumania** [9:11] — Whitney suggests Marvel should have killed Ant-Man in 'Quantumania' to raise stakes and set up Cassie Lang for the Young Avengers or West Coast Avengers.
- **Lack of Follow-Through on Teases** [15:00] — Alex points out that Marvel's failure to follow up on end-credits scenes has eroded audience trust; the teases no longer guarantee future payoffs.
- **Villain Introduced in Wrong Medium** [33:47] — The panel notes that the multiverse was introduced in a Disney+ show (Loki), and the main villain Kang was also set up there, which they argue is a mistake.
- **No Avengers Movie Between Endgame and Doomsday** [35:03] — Multiple panelists lament the absence of an Avengers movie since Endgame, saying it left the Multiverse Saga without a clear destination or anchor.
- **Too Much Content, Too Many Characters** [42:31] — The guests discuss that too many projects (especially Disney+ shows) and too many characters have made the universe feel bloated and directionless.
- **Underutilized Multiverse and Abandoned Characters** [19:36] — A super chat notes that not using the multiverse until 'Fantastic Four', scrapping Kang, and abandoning Shang-Chi were major missteps.
- **No Script Prepared Before Filming** [26:47] — The panel criticizes Marvel for not having a script ready at the start of production, relying on set pieces first and story later.
- **Wasted Villains and Side Characters** [50:42] — Both introduced and then killed or sidelined too quickly; characters like Eternals, Taskmaster, MODOK, and Kang were mishandled.

## Transcript

Let's rewind. Rewind.
Welcome back to Screen Crush Rewind. I'm
your host, Ryan Ary, and today we're
going to have a lot of fun. I have a
feeling a lot of you guys are going to
have a lot of fun in the comments with
this question, too. It is quite simply,
what is the biggest MCU mistake? Now, we
got a few people on that we're going to
talk to about this. If you guys have any
super chats, they're always encouraged,
but not required. Please feel free to
drop them. We'll get to the comments a
little bit later in the conversation.
And we've already got a super chat.
Thank you so much, Michael Redini. We'll
get to that in a second. Uh, and I just
want to lay out some criteria here.
There it can be whatever kind of mistake
you think. So, if you think it's
something on the corporate level, if you
think that there is a character that
Marvel killed off, who should have not
been killed off, or somebody they should
have killed off, or a story they
shouldn't have adapted, whatever it is,
you can talk grand corporate strategy or
we can get super granular with this. So,
I am really excited to talk to everybody
about this. Uh, first up, you know him
as the guy who's trapped in our TV but
doesn't know it. So, please don't tell
him. Mr. Colton Agurn, what's up,
Colton?
>> I've got to [clears throat] get some new
headphones. You always cut out right as
you're bringing me on. It's super
annoying.
>> Got to get me some
>> Well, it's good to see you.
>> Wireless headphones. Good to see you.
Yeah,
>> I know you have no complaints about the
MCU or Star Wars or anything else. So,
um I I hope you can try to think of some
kind of mistake for this.
>> Well, I don't know, Ryan. Hold up. Yeah,
I got my direct deposit. Yeah, no
complaints.
>> Oh, okay. So, all right. So, you have
nothing bad to say because Marvel is
>> filling your pockets with cash. And next
up, you know him as the co-host of the
Comic Book Club podcast, the guy without
a cute nickname yet, Mr. Alex. What's
going on, Alex?
>> Uh, you can call me Wuzzles. How about
that? Is that cute? Is that a cute
nickname?
>> It doesn't It's cute, but it doesn't
It's not appropriate. We'll figure it
out. I don't know.
>> That's what I That's what I call him.
[laughter]
And hey, speaking of wuzzles and
wuzzlelike things, because the wuzzles
are actually a cartoon from the 1980s,
and this person loves to cover cartoons
and animation on her channel, Whitney
Vision, Miss Whitney Van Lingham, what's
going on, Whitney?
>> Hi. I'm so excited because as a person
who's never made a mistake ever in my
life, I can't wait to talk about
Marvel's mistakes.
>> Absolutely. And if there's one thing we
all can be assured of, it's that we are
definitely the ones who should be
casting the first stones. You look back
at our lives and [laughter] our careers
and we are without spot. So of course we
are in the best position to tell
professionals like Kevin [laughter]
Feige and the Russo brothers and all
these filmmakers what they should have
been doing from the safety of the back
seat. Right.
>> Yeah.
>> That being said, um look, we're Monday
morning quarterbacking. Obviously, I
would not trust me to do anything uh
Marvel wise for any amount of money, but
it's kind of fun to complain and let
people know what we think they should
have done. I don't know who wants to go
first. Who's got I've got a list, so I'm
I'm not in a rush. Who wants to go
first?
>> I wasn't aware of the topic literally
until you messaged [laughter] me a few
minutes ago.
>> Oh, it's on the spreadsheet.
>> Yeah, I know. I'm just saying I've
already have several though. [laughter]
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, hit us with one. Don't be shy.
goes first.
>> Falcon and the Winter Soldier should
have been a movie and it should have
been like a a direct like followup to
Endgame cuz Ingame ends with Sam being
given the shield game was like the
second biggest movie ever. Everybody saw
Endgame and it's just really weird that
the followup to that is a Disney Plus
show. I I just think that's odd. Why not
do another Captain America movie? have
it star uh Sam Wilson and Bucky, two
guys who have been, you know, co-leads
really in the Captain America movies,
you know, behind Steve Rogers. Uh you
could have had even, you know, old man
Steve Rogers in it if you wanted to. I
think Joe Biden plays the elderly Steve
Rogers, right? So you could have had him
come in.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So I wish I wish he had ran again
as Steve Rogers.
>> As Steve Rogers, right? Yeah. Things
would be different.
>> I think he might run again. I think the
third time's a charm. I think next time
we just need to nominate him one more
time. I think one more time.
>> Yeah. I just
>> look, Falcon and the Winter Soldier is
far from perfect, but I think it has a
far more interesting and like compelling
story than Brave New World did. Like I I
think it would have been so much more
interesting of a story to tell on the
big screen. I Bucky is like a fan
favorite. like that Winter Soldier
character is like beloved by like even
like more like casual MCU fans like
maybe fans who aren't diehard Screen
Cross watchers but they you know they do
make sure they go watch all the MCU
movies like that kind of like
middleground fan between Normie and
Superfan. So I think they could have
really I think they would have been
really smart to make that the movie
instead of just dropping that on Disney
Plus and then doing the the half-baked
movie later. I I think things could look
different had they done that.
>> Let me ask you this. Okay, so I I kind
of agree. I always thought like that as
a status, right? You have all Zemo, all
these people, um you know, Isaiah
Bradley, John Walker, like those are
seinal stories from the comics and
seinal characters who have already been
established in movies. So, yeah, I do
agree in that sense. But if it if it
goes from six episodes, which were not
long, but they were about 40 minutes
each, and you condense it to a movie,
what plot lines do you think or do you
guys think you can lose from that?
>> Probably. I mean, as much as I like her,
all the stuff with what is it? Aaron
Kellerman. Uh, and I'm forgetting the
name of the group she was in. The ones
>> Flag Smashers,
>> you know, if you focus it down on who
is, you know, Battle for the Shield type
thing with US Agent, with Bucky kind of
standing back, but still sort of being
there to step in, Falcon, also Isaiah
Bradley. I guess like that makes it at
least more of a focused and a follow-up
like you're talking about Colton because
even though Cap handed over the shield,
you still expect that there's going to
be a little friction there. And even in
the comics, there was some friction as
well for sure.
>> I I don't know what's the character's
name. Carly, right? We're talking about
Is that who you were talking about? The
Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> I I don't I don't know if I want less of
her. Like I mean she's a really
interesting character that really puts
Sam in this position where okay I'm
already you know in a in an America
where maybe a black man being Captain
America is going to be you know hard for
a lot of people to swallow. Like he's
already facing those struggles but also
here he is trying to say no I'm not
defending a terrorist. I'm defending a
kid who has been like uh you know
misguided and is really you know if you
think about it the reason she is the way
she is is because of our own failures.
And instead of you got to do better
senator we could just have a movie that
actually like shows instead of tells
that. So while the John Walker portion I
think is interesting from the show. If I
had to pick between which one of them is
like the the villain, the the obstacle,
I I think I'd probably lean more toward
Carly.
>> Or I would get rid of Carly and keep the
Power Broker as the villain.
>> Like because that's really what it is
that the source of it is that they're
selling the that somebody has access to
the super soldier for,
>> right? And can I say I haven't seen it
since co
Oh, no. It holds up, dude. Like some of
the action
>> I completely forgot her name was Carly.
I'm not going to lie to you. I was
sitting there waiting for someone to say
the name cuz I was like, "Shit." Oh,
yeah. I forgot. Flag Smasher. I always
see that cuz the depths of my colon that
I had to sift through like while Alex
was talking to try to find her name and
find
[laughter] I got it.
>> Yeah. No, I was hoping someone would say
it cuz I was like, "Shit, what was that
kid's name?"
>> Dude, I forget so many names on here all
the time and Alex never does.
>> I forgot Tom Walker yesterday. I called
him [ __ ] Captain America. [laughter]
>> But we knew who given name. That's just
we only called John Walker Johnny
Mayonnaise because [laughter] MTU forgot
his name one time and was like, "What's
that guy's name?" Johnny May or
something.
>> Wider than Tucker Tucker Carlson. Hey,
Alex, we did have a good suggestion
here. So Ethan's gas tune gave us two
bucks and said, "Alex, the guy who's
always available for the stream." What
do you think about Alex, [laughter] the
guy who's always home?
Alex, the guy.
>> I mean, that's sad, but it's true.
>> Well, [laughter] I mean, like, I've got
no room to talk. Whitney, throw us throw
us a mistake. There's so many super
chats right now we have to get to later.
Like, it's a record.
>> Are they all saying how correct I am
about my
>> Yeah, people pay money just to let you
feel validated. Exactly. [laughter]
>> That's the opposite of therapy where I
go to feel validated and I pay someone a
lot of uh a lot of money. Um, give it to
me now. Uh, no. My biggest uh Marvel
mistake in my opinion, I think that they
should have killed Ant-Man in Quantia.
I think that they should have gone the
death of Ant-Man comic route. I think
that that should have led to Cassie Lang
heading up the Young Avengers, maybe
even starting the West Coast Avengers
kind of a deal cuz we've been in New
York so much. Come on, bring bring a
little my way. It's all on your side of
the country. Give me Give me some LA out
here. We only have Wonderman so far and
Trevor Slatterie. Give us
>> Ang She-Hulk. And She-Hulk. Uh, another
one that's not
>> that's like probably not coming back.
Um,
>> all you have is the Spurs loser.
>> Yeah, we got we got Cowboy Deadpool,
which I actually just picked up the
Marvel Legends figure of. That's very
cool. [laughter]
>> Hell yeah.
>> That's Whitney. That's a great We've
made a couple videos on that and I think
everyone was expecting him to
>> I have too.
>> Yeah. And
>> I made so many theory videos on that
before it came out cuz I was like that's
the only way to keep the stakes cuz a
lot of a problem that I've had with like
a lot of the recent Marvel movies is
that they used to have such like
highstake moments where you would
actually be sitting in the theater
going, "Oh my god, how are they going to
get out of this? How are they going to
solve it?" And so when I was seeing
trailers and like the poster and like
Kang stepping on the helmet and
everything, like I
>> thought, "Oh [ __ ] this is totally gonna
go there and like be the death of
Ant-Man." That this is going to be
awesome. We're going to finally get
crazy high stakes like we had at the end
of Infinity War going into Endgame, end
of Endgame going into everything else.
Uh, I was so hyped for the MCU to
finally have like a crazy crazy death
and it didn't work.
>> It It borders on idiotic that that they
didn't do it. Like I I get that he's
Paul Rudd. You want Paul Rudd in the
Avengers movie.
>> Paul Rudd, but come on. Come on. Come
on.
>> Also,
>> this is the Marvel No one's ever really
dead universe. You could have had him
get like brutally like you could have
had what happened to Kang happen to
Ant-Man. Have him like get brutally
sucked into that power core or
something. Have Kang like pushing his
face into the power core and him getting
like sucked into it and then he could
have brought him back in King Dynasty.
Well,
>> well,
you know, the original ending. I'm still
holding out hope for King Dynasty,
though.
>> Me, too.
>> You never know.
>> They're working on it.
>> I hear I hear it's dro I hear they're
going to drop it on uh Daily Wire Plus.
Yeah, I hear Ben Shapiro is looking hard
on the script as we speak.
>> Well, he's got Jonathan Majors all
locked up. Or does he? Um, so the Would
you guys be okay with the original
ending of Quantum Mania where he was
trapped in the quantum realm and then um
Cassie like ends and finds the Young
Avengers protocol on a computer? I think
the reason they said they didn't do
that, maybe it didn't test well, but
also they were like, "This is three
movies in a row where they end up in a
quantum realm." And I personally think
that would have been great because I
just think you end it with Scott and
Janet looking at each other and going,
"Not again." Yeah. And then that's it.
>> Totally.
>> It's an Ant-Man movie. It's supposed to
be Dags.
>> Whitney's ending, I think, is the the
perfect ending. Have him die. But yeah,
the second best would have been at least
have them be trapped there. But no, they
were just
>> and they could have done a whole, you
know, at the ending of uh it was like
Stranger Things season 3 where they like
have Hopper die and they make it super
real and they make it super believable
and you're like, "Holy shit." before
like the postredit scene obviously and
like I remember being like, "Oh my god,
he's really [ __ ] dead." And like they
have all the characters like crying and
Eleven has to move to California. They
could have done that with Cassie Lang
because I think that that would have
been a really cool I mean sorry that I'm
sitting here like that teenage girl
should have had her dad die to give her
life stakes and
>> well she's not real.
Yeah. I mean I think it would have been
a really really cool Yeah. [laughter]
>> I think it would have been a cool ass
character motivation. I just do. I think
that that could have been a really cool
start to something. And then if they did
bring him back and there was a reunion,
she would have changed because she
didn't have a dad and then he'd be like,
"But I still love you." Ah. And it'd be
so fun and cool to see that.
>> And it also in the comics really hurt
Kang. It really hurt
by Ant-Man.
>> I love Ant-Man. Ant-Man's a powerful
character,
>> but you don't have him beat Kang in a
fist fight. This and [clears throat]
then
have him get small and crawl up his
butt. That's the only way I support him
beating Kang. And that didn't happen
either. So, [ __ ] me. I guess
>> it's like if Dark Side got beaten by
Plastic Man. That it's sort of on that
level.
>> I will push back. plastic man is
terrifying [laughter]
>> that well
>> if if I actually I'm a I'm a quantum
mania defender right because when we
talk about he was beaten by ants I've
even like going into the science of this
in videos like ants are so strong have
like such power and then when they're
that big the surface tension they would
be like tanks like millions of
unstoppable tanks so of course that
would destroy his armor and his force
field and you have to do that to Kang in
that moment he has to be put on his back
foot. But you're right, he has to
triumph. And like Daniel Daniel RPK has
said that their original plan was not to
have Kang, but the council of Kangs be
the villain. Like that's a great idea
for Kang Dynasty. And I think you're
right. I think it just destroyed any
kind of not momentum, but any kind of
excitement over that character, Alex.
>> Yeah. No, it totally failed a street
crowd.
>> We've been talking. Wait, just Alex, I
want to hear yours because I'm sure
these aren't the only ones you guys
have, so we're going to keep circling
back to different ones as well.
>> Sure. I mean I rather than a specific
one I'll throw out a broadstrokes one
about Marvel that's been said a billion
times but this drives me off the ball is
the lack of followup on end credits
scenes. I think that has almost hurt
Marvel more than anything else because
you could do it once like you could miss
one thing like you could do the Baron
Bordo thing and miss following up on him
being like no more sorcerers and like
all right that's fine we skip by that
maybe we'll come back to it later.
>> Maybe he was just mad. Maybe he was just
hungry when he said that. We don't know.
>> Exactly. Yeah. Maybe just he's like
>> And there was that there was that really
big movie that they could have followed
that up in that that [laughter]
multiverse of madness movie,
>> right? But but it's not like my point is
that like you could do that once, maybe
twice where you're like, "Okay, I
understand there was a reason we blasted
past that thing." But they've done that
so many times now it starts to erode
audience trust because rather than
having where they started where it's
like, "Oo, it's Nick Fury. What's going
to happen with him?" Well, I'll find out
in Iron Man 2. Thor's hammer showed up
at the end. Where's that? Oh, the next
movie is Thor. So, like it's this
started as this very straightforward
thing. And suddenly you have all of
these end credit scenes of Shani being
like, "What's the secret signal from
space? You'll never find out. You're
never going to know. I mean, maybe we'll
know in doomsday, but like up until then
later years." Yeah.
>> Exactly. [clears throat] And it then it
becomes not careful planning. it
becomes, oh crap, there's this thing on
this board that we got to tie up with a
bow somehow because we left it dangling.
Like that's definitely how I felt when
they finally came back to the celestial
in the ocean in Captain America: Brave
New World where it wasn't like, "Ooh,
they planned this the whole time. It
was, oh, right, that thing was there.
That was a thing that they left behind."
They just again like I think it's the
overall sense of the universe sort of it
spills out into the movies and the TV
shows itself where it starts to feel
like well if those aren't important none
of the rest of this is important. If
you're not going to follow up on that I
don't have to watch anything else.
>> Yeah. Uh, James Gun said he doesn't want
to do um postredit scenes in the DCU
that actually tease things because he
was locked into Adam Warlock from
Guardians 2 and he had a hard time
fitting him into Guardians 3. I
>> I think there's a happy medium there
honestly between what Gun is saying and
what MCU has been doing for a while
where if you know [clears throat] a
project is coming, you can throw
something in there for sure and tease
it. It doesn't all have to be uh what
was it? Mr. Terrific and Superman
stereo. Take a scene from it. Yeah,
exactly.
>> Like they would do like in Ant-Man,
there's a scene from you, Winter
Soldier.
>> Took took the words right out of my
mouth that
>> that's what the postredit scenes need to
be is because they always know what the
next one coming out is. They might not
have it locked down with the the next
one like in five movies down the road,
>> just put a postredit scene that
>> that also just makes more sense from a a
marketing perspective. If you've got a
movie coming out in May and then you've
got one coming out the following
December, have the postredit scene for
the May one be for whatever the December
movie is. It doesn't have to be
>> put a gag in.
>> Yeah. And a gag a gag postredit scene.
Yeah.
>> Right.
>> Taylor Swift is now what the MCU used to
be in terms of like Easter eggs and like
seeding future projects. And I really
think that the MCU needs to go back to
being Taylor Swift because Taylor does
it in a really cool way where she rolls
things out. I'm sure you guys have seen
Taytory. Yeah, that's right. That's
right. I hijacked this live stream to
talk about Taylor Swift.
>> We were going to do a video on Taytory,
but um I basically texted the wrong
person. They never got back to me and it
was cuz I
>> Yeah. Why didn't you text me, you
[ __ ]
>> I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't
know. Winnie, why didn't you tell me you
were Taylor Swift Taylor Swift? I didn't
>> I love Toy Story. I love cartoons and I
love Taylor Swift. Yeah. How are you
supposed to know that? We're only We're
friends, Ryan. That's how
>> you never talk to me about Taylor Swift,
though. We talk about this [ __ ]
Anyways, anyways. [laughter] Anyways,
I'm turning off.
>> She creates hype. She creates hype by
seeding tiny little details years and
years apart. even though they are years
and years apart, fans can still actually
connect them back to things because they
do eventually actually happen. And she
makes sure that all of her things do pay
off. And she also does the thing where
she doesn't start leaving Easter eggs
for something until a project is
actually confirmed. She started seeding
Toy Story Easter eggs back in like
November with her outfits. It's crazy.
That woman's the Zodiac Killer. So, I
think Marvel needs to do that. Michael
Rendini gave us $10 on a super chat and
has a thought that echoes what uh Alex
and you guys are saying here. Not really
using the multiverse until Fantastic 4,
Scrapping Kang, using Doom Too late, no
Avengers films, and abandoning Shang
Chi. That movie was so much fun and the
setting felt fresh. So yeah,
>> they mean by having a film actually take
place in a different universe.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. By like and I
think we did a video when Spider Noir
came out. I made the same point like
>> why didn't we just get this? Why
couldn't we have had like something in a
western or whatever?
>> Didn't you kind of want um was it
She-Hulk to or was that a theory going
on? People wanted She-Hulk to be
revealed that it was taking place in a
different universe or or like come the
end of um
>> it would it would make sense. I mean
that that would not break that would
make her fourth wall breaks not break
continuity. I keep pushing for Shanqi in
the 1970s. Like gritty 1970s scorsi
Shani movie shot on 35 millimeter.
>> I mean, if you're gonna do a multiverse
saga, like I like No Way Home for what
it is. I guess I could [ __ ] about it
for hours and I I had fun with Deadpool
and Wolverine, but you would think maybe
if you want to do a multiverse saga,
maybe you like tell Sony, "Hey,
>> let's do a Spider-Man 4 with Toby. Let's
do another X-Men movie or something." If
you really want to build up to these
different universes like all heading to
this same like culmination point where
they literally are going to collide,
that would have been cool. Well, here's
mine and mine's along these my first one
along those same lines. Marvel
officially bought Fox. Um, basically
Disney was buying Fox. It was started to
like their bid got approved in 2017. It
was finalized in 2018. And I remember
people asking Kevin Feige, "Oh, when
when you gonna do the X-Men?" He's like,
"Well, we plan everything like five, 10
years in advance, so not for a while."
So, first of all, call in [ __ ] on
the planning thing because as we found
out and as we'll talk about in a second,
um, they will absolutely shuffle
something in if they think it's going to
do well. Like, Agatha all along was not
part of the overall plan. I don't think
I think that it did well and they had a
great concept and they listened to the
creatives and they said, "Yeah, we'll do
Agatha all along. That sounds
fantastic." I don't know why it'll be 10
years before we get the X-Men in the
MCU.
That to me is ridiculous.
>> Shuffle's the wrong sh word. It's more
like shoehorn. They'll shoehorn it in
for sure.
>> Yeah. And especially, like I said, we'll
get that in a second. But when you look
at the X-Men, I'm like, "Okay, so I
looked forward. The reason I didn't mind
when Disney bought 20th Century Fox and
called this venerated studio is because
I was like, "Oh, cool. The X-Men are
going to be in the MCU." because I
wanted to see the X-Men introduced
slowly and find ties to the existing
universe and you know we had all these
different theory videos and stuff we did
like maybe read Richard's work for
Shield stuff like that and um I think
it's really weird that instead they were
like oh yeah no let's you know those Fox
X-Men movies that had run out of gas and
nobody really likes anymore let's bring
that team back and let's do the
multiverse thing instead instead of just
reintroducing them into this universe I
don't I feel like the sentimentality
toward those old movies was a little
misguided and that we've had several
movies saying goodbye to that franchise,
the Fox X-Men, and they should have just
introduced them in the MCU.
>> Well, and it was right there to have the
Fantastic Four have been trapped in the
negative zone, have it be the quantum
realm that and they could have not aged
and everything. Sorry, Alex. Go ahead.
>> No, no, [snorts] no. I I was just going
to throw out there that I I feel like it
points to this thing with the MCU
sometimes where they both have too much
time and then too little time to do
everything. at least from my very
outside perspective looking at
production and post-production where
they're like, "We got to really sit on
this X-Men idea for 10 years." But when
it comes down to it,
>> they'll be like, "Oh, we didn't have a
script." And we're on set. Oh my god. Uh
like it the immediate thing that's been
top of mind for me is that they're not
shooting Secret Wars until August of
this year, which granted it's a over a
year out until the movie comes out in
theaters. So technically that should be
at the time for any movie. But it's
weird to me that they didn't film
Doomsday and Secret Wars back toback
that they didn't really have, as far as
we've heard, any sort of plan or script
or real shooting order or anything like
that on Doomsday. And I know that's been
part and parcel with the MCU since the
beginning since they were improvising on
Iron Man and everything, but that
clearly is not working. Like other ways
of doing things are working. And whether
it is subbing in the X-Men and figuring
out a way like, okay, we have this. How
do we make it work? How do we actually
not take our sweet time and plan it out,
but figure out how to make this universe
better but
push forward on those things in an
appropriate amount of time. Give
yourself an appropriate amount of time.
Plan out things. There was, I know I'm
kind of just blathering and monologuing,
but there was this quote from Tom
Holland the other day where he was
talking about how he was on the Odyssey
and saw Christopher Nolan making a movie
and actually planning advance and he's
like,
>> "Have you guys ever thought we could
maybe do this with a Spider-Man movie?
We should try that."
>> That's what I was about to say as you
were saying that.
>> Have we tried being film makers in the
MCU? Have we tried working with films?
He he even called out he even called out
in that interview that you're talking
about how um they'll plan like the whole
action sequences and set pieces ahead of
time and then do the story around it.
And didn't he say like he pretty much
told them we're not doing that like
Yeah.
>> And who was the writer? I I just read a
report that they brought a writer in who
like reworked the whole brand new day
script before they started filming. Um
let me look. you guys talk amongst
yourself, but they brought in like a
well-known writer from another show that
kind of gave the script a pass before
they started filming.
>> You know, it's interesting though
because, you know, Alex, you mentioned
that was kind of what they did with Iron
Man and especially Iron Man 2 where the
creative committee were throwing their
notes into it. One of the few exceptions
were the Avengers movies and the
Guardians of the Galaxy movies where you
had a director who was also a
screenwriter and all these other
instances and this is mostly taken from
the brand of Marvel Studios book. They
started to have this pattern of getting
their visual effects started. Like you
said, Colton, they know the big action
scenes, which by the way is not unusual.
John Woo, uh, George Miller, a lot of
great action directors, Christopher
McQuary on the Mission Impossible films,
they start filming those Mission
Impossible movies before they have a
script because they do the stunts. So
Haley Atwell, when she meets Tom Cruz's
character in that movie where she meets
him, I think it's the first reckoning
one, she has no idea why they're
running. No one does. They just know
they have to run, you know. Um, and they
were they would do the visual effects
and build everything around that. And
then like you said, eventually you just
run out of steam. And I think that gets
into my next one, which I'll talk about
in a second.
>> But I there's nothing wrong with that in
itself. There's nothing wrong with
saying we don't have the exact details
of the script locked down, but these
movies and especially these set pieces
are a a lot to get done in a short
amount of time. So, it's okay to start
pre-planning, but So, I'm not saying you
have to have like a completely finalized
every single detail script,
>> but at least have an outline. It It
sounds like they start planning these.
Yeah, it sounds like they start with,
"Oh, well, we're going to have a fight
scene on a train.
>> Why? I don't know who we are. We'll
figure it out.
>> We'll figure it out or something."
>> And then you bring in your indie
director who you bring in an indie
director who's good with actors and they
can do all those dialogue scenes in
between. And they tell them, they
literally told Anna Bowden and Ryan
Fleck, don't worry about the visual
effects stuff. We got that.
>> And if you want to insert any like
dialogue in the fight that would come
later, you can just go in and insert
that, you know, do tight shots of the
actual like exchange,
>> but they do those shots later. I mean,
that's the thing, like they work on all
these sequences, they get them mapped
out. If they do the same thing on the
Fast and Furious movies where they're
usually not on location, it's very rare.
like Vin Diesel. Yes, he was in Rome. He
was in Cuba. But usually when they film
those scenes, they're not on location.
They're in the studio in front of a blue
screen.
>> Yeah. The guy
>> Diesel just goes those places because he
wants to go, you know, like he was like,
"Oh, Rome sounds great. Cuba, great."
>> Which explains why he's always hours
late to set.
>> Yeah. 100% explains that.
>> The guy that wrote Challengers was
brought on to do kind of a last
>> explains it. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think
there's going to be a scene with MJ and
Peter and
>> Peter's new and MJ's new guy?
>> Yeah, the new boyfriend.
>> The new boyfriend and and Spider-Man and
they're going to have to make out. Holy
[ __ ]
>> Ned's watching happening.
>> Dream come true. Yeah, Ned's in the cuck
chair. Of course. [laughter]
>> He's the guy in the cuck chair.
>> YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I YEAH, Ned's in the
cuck chair. You got to have THAT ONE
GUY.
>> THE GUY IN THE CHAIR. YEAH, [laughter]
>> it's hilarious.
>> I'm sorry I killed you.
>> It's hilarious. It's really [laughter]
>> Well, anyways, Phil Rumba from Down
Under gave us eight Australian dollars
and said the multiverse saga never had
its Thanos without a clear overarching
big bad. Everything felt disconnected
and directionless. How's Doug doing?
He's great. Um I they did have a big
bad. It was Kang. They were setting Kang
up. He was there. He was in Loki. He was
um he appeared in you know they gave him
his start in Quantum Mania and then it
turned out oh it's not Kang it's the
council. They they tried to pull a bait
and switch on us that just
>> they're not jazz anybody up.
>> I mean that points to not to get too
deep into it or anything but like the
trifecta of things that were working
against Marvel during this time period.
One is COVID. The second is the fire
hose of content that Disney was telling
them to produce both for Disney Plus and
for theaters. Particularly when like
>> they didn't know how to make TV and they
still kind of don't know how to make TV.
They're sort of retroactively being
like, "Huh, how do you make TV? We
should look into that."
>> Pilots.
Interesting.
>> I don't know. Showrunners. What are we
thinking? Yeah. And then the third thing
is the situation with Jonathan Major
which threw an enormous wrench into
Eddie plans that they had for Kang. And
there were certainly ways around that
other than coming up with Robert Downey
Jr. as Dr. Doom, but that's what they
went with. And again, like Yeah. What
other he can't recast somebody in the
multiverse. That doesn't work.
>> But he had a no recast
>> he had a no recast thing a clause in his
contract. So because he knew his Yeah.
Because he he knew in the multiverse
saga
>> he wanted to play variations of himself.
He didn't want to be acting against
somebody else playing King.
>> Now that presumably would have included
an endmification clause which would mean
that you know had he done something like
get convicted of a crime
>> then they could recast him. But then
you're getting into a whole other thing
where
>> basically he was exonerated legally in
that whole deal. And you know that like
you talk to attorneys like Mike Misella
came on and was like actually this is
what happened. So it gets really sticky.
Alex is right about that.
>> Okay. But you know what? I no I don't
accept that excuse because one you're
right. He he violated the clause that
was totally in there that you know if he
did any brand uh hurting of their brand
they could totally recast him and like
his and you know what
>> if he doesn't like it if he thinks he
has a case then he can sue them. Have
fun suing Disney. I can't believe I'm
saying that about the giant corporation.
But yeah, have your pay Disney.
>> Yeah, they just pay him off and he'd be
done. So I don't like that excuse.
[laughter] I think it was
>> No, Disney pays you.
>> Don't pay me. Pay me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> I I think it was pathetic. [laughter]
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think it was pathetic they
didn't recast King Kang. I always
thought that was so incredibly
>> such a disrespect.
>> I'm with you. I think that it's
ridiculous that like dude, if if I one
time, this is a true story. I got fired
from uh a job because I was really
really hungry and it was a half day and
we were getting out at 1 pm, but at like
11:30, I was like, I'm so hungry. I got
to go get a sandwich. And I came back
and my boss was like, it's a half day.
You couldn't have just waited till you
clocked out. Why would you do this? And
I was so hangry that I was like, "Leave
me alone. I need to eat so bad." Uh, and
I got fired from that job. And
rightfully so, because I was being
shitty. I should not have left in the
middle of a workday to get a sandwich. I
shouldn't have been cranky at my boss
cuz I was hangry. That was on me.
>> I mean, what majors did was a lot worse.
>> Exactly. So, if I can accept it,
>> I'm not even sure. Yeah,
>> that's what I'm saying. I deserve to
lose that job. He way deserved to lose
that job. And he and his contract should
be broken. My contract got broken. I
didn't get paid anymore. They could they
they could have they they definitely
recast my position of social media
manager. Uh and rightfully so. They
should have. Why can't they recast Kang?
He did something shitty at work, too.
>> I think it's super weird to fire
somebody for getting a sandwich. That's
just me, though. Jerry
happened.
>> Jerry Ross gave us five bucks and said,
agreeing with what we said before,
Marvel's biggest mistakes are
introducing new characters then doing
nothing with them like America Chavez
and cliffhers that never get resolved.
Um who's the new character they
introduced? You guys are like, "Oh my
god, how have they not done anything
with this person since then?"
>> Oh, Scar. Everybody loves Scar when he
showed up in She-Hulk. Where is he? Why
don't we have our own Scar?
>> We all celebrated the appearance.
>> Give him time to grow out that awful ass
haircut. That's where he is.
>> He's such a great character in the
comics. I don't want to go into the
whole lore now, but he really is. I
think that's a great one.
>> It's too
It's too much everything. It's too many
movies. It's too many shows. And it's
way too many damn characters that
there's something special about quality
over quantity when there's too many.
Like I used to think I needed to buy
every single Marvel and Star Wars action
figure that came out, but eventually I
just ended up with a collection of 75%
of figures that I didn't care about or
want. It's much more special when you
just buy the ones you want. Plus, you
save some money. And and I before we get
off at Kang, I just want to say in terms
of mistakes, introducing not only the
character and the entire concept of your
movie franchise saga in a Disney Plus
show
might be the single biggest mistake they
could have made. And I say that Loki is
my favorite MCU show. I love Loki, but
you do not introduce your Thanos and the
entire concept of your film saga on a
show.
>> It is that
>> yeah the show should have always been
regarded as if you did watch this you
get extra context which I thought Brave
New World except for Isaiah Bradley felt
like that it felt like a limited series
that took place between the main series
Mike gave us three bucks and said
Taskmaster Kang and Modoc were
mishandled that's a pretty good one too
uh Modoc great character in the comics
great character you know great show with
Patton Oswalt it made cross returned but
man
>> I don't even when you said Modok I I
don't even register him as Modoc. Like I
was like Modoc when did they do Oh, they
did do Modok kind of.
>> Yeah. And Quania did get a little bit
too Rick and Morty, the Jeff Lovenness
of it all. Like the broccoli headed guy,
stuff like that. Like it it veered too
far toward that. Um H Portillo gave us
two bucks and said biggest mistake was
no Avengers movie before Doomsday. So
this gets into what I was going to say.
I I've said this a hundred times that
you can introduce all these characters
and you can do this, right? But not
having an Avengers movie, I think, is
what made people leave because you
stopped feeling like, you know, there's
look, not that not that you have to
watch art to feel like a completionist,
but when there are so many things to
watch and then real life and things to
go out and do and grass to touch and
waterfalls to bask in and you're asking
people to watch six episodes of
Moonnight and 10 episodes or nine
episodes of She-Hulk, it's a lot to ask
of people and we want an Avengers movie.
We want to know what it's building
toward. But the simple fact is the
reason they didn't have Avengers movies
is because it's impossible when you
scaled up production that much. When you
involve that many characters and that
many showrunners and that many people um
which was a dictate from Disney trying
to like make up for the pandemic and the
losses they were suffering by building
up Disney Plus. When you have that
happen, it just becomes logistically
impossible. And one thing that we've
heard is that out from Alex Perez is
that next phase Avengers movies won't
just be giant teamups. They will be hey
here's a team of Avengers. they're gonna
fight Parismo or whoever
>> and and Doomsday and Secret Wars and
like this saga thematically this capper
the way that they are actually going to
make it feel bigger than Infinity War
and Endgame is not only are we like
having a culmination event of that saga.
It's a culmination event of not only
this saga but the Infinity saga, the Fox
X-Men that came to it's it's this
nostalgia thing of all of it coming
together. Imagine had they actually
taken the time to establish and do an
Avengers movie with these new Avengers
and these new characters and that would
be yet another piece of this culmination
event. We've got the new Avengers from
the current thing coming in. We've got
oh the Avengers that we love from the
Infinity Saga. The Avengers from the
Infinity Saga would feel just as like as
much as like a piece of nostalgia as the
X-Men are and as Toby and Andrew
Spider-Man are like, "Oh, they're coming
back."
>> It doesn't really feel like, "Oh,
they're coming back." back. It really
just feels like they never left. So it
>> I I think this is a great point because
you also need those tent poles. You need
those marking points at the end of
phases that we got uh leading through
the Infinity Saga because you knew like
I mean I'd be hardressed to tell you
what the story of phase one or phase 2
or phase three was, but I can tell you
offhand like okay here's a movie's phase
one leading up to Avengers. Here's phase
2 leading up to Avengers: Age of Ultron.
Here's phase three leading up to
Infinity War and then uh Endgame. And I
think there was beyond what you're
saying, Ryan, probably also this feeling
of Endgame is the biggest movie of all
time. How do we top that? We can't top
that by going back to Avengers or Age of
Ultron. We need to do Endgame times 2,
which is certainly what they hope
Doomsday is. And I think that's wrong
because like Colton's saying, if instead
at the end of phase four, we had gotten
Thunderbolts colon the new Avengers,
then you'd been like, "Oh, cool. Oh,
this is a fun new team. Let's follow
them." And then, exactly like you're
saying, at the end of phase five, you
get Sam's team or whatever. And then we
get that big in game times 2 that
Doomsday is, it feels more earned at
that point.
>> Earned. Exactly.
>> I was so jazzed to see the Guardians
meet the Avengers. Like, that was
something I looked forward to. so much
and it didn't disappoint when it finally
happened. Um, yeah. All right, next.
Sorry, we got MKNM6818
says, "Such a pleasure seeing you all.
Colton, I love you. Alex, such a legend.
Whitney, never enough of you. Ryan, you
demand." Thank you so much.
>> And we really appreciate that.
[laughter]
>> I demand sandwiches.
>> I demand
at 11:30. He-Man, Rick Taylor. Uh,
>> Rick Taylor. And I love this one. This
is from what we were talking about
yesterday with Ryan on this Captain
America versus Nazis. It really bothers
me that Captain America went through
World War II and we never saw him shoot,
kill, or maim a single Nazi.
>> Well, kind of insane.
>> Hydra is worse than Nazis. I don't know
if you're aware.
>> Oh, is are they? Yeah. Terrible line
from Avengers or I hate it when he's
talking to Loki and he goes, you know,
the last time there was a man standing
above everyone else.
>> We ended up disagreeing.
>> Yeah.
So there's a really
>> I'm sorry you disagreed with Hitler, I
guess. Like Jesus [laughter] Christ.
>> Agree to disagree, man.
>> Hitler, I guess. Jesus. No.
>> There's an adorable video. I wish I
remember the creator who made it, who
filmed his grandmother watching the
Marvel movies. Um, you know, slowly
because she wasn't going to marathon
them. And when they were watching the
Avengers, he said, "Grandma, you know
who he's talking about." And she turned
AND WENT, "HITLER."
>> [laughter]
>> IT WAS ADORABLE. She like knew the
answer. She was so proud of it. She
worked it out on her own.
>> Oh, sorry. I just want to get through a
couple more super chats here because
they keep rolling in. Uh Brian Brick
gave us 10 bucks and said, "Using DNA
mutation as a result of being snapped
back would have worked great for
introducing mutants." I agree. So, after
the like maybe Thanos snapping everybody
away triggers the mutant gene.
>> Also, um they are already dealing with
marginalization due to their five-year
displacement. So yeah, maybe when we
come back in Endgame, um, mutants have
been popping up and they're already
like, all this weird things happening.
That's something we missed. And then we
could have, and this is should be a
mistake I think we could list. We should
have seen more stuff during the blip.
That is a really interesting story
opportunity.
>> It is.
>> Yeah, that and the I mean, I know
everybody's talked about this a million
times, but the whole Captain America
bringing back the Infinity Stones thing,
that would have been great to see as
well, like have that as a concert. We
might still.
>> Yeah.
>> It's almost like
>> that is the kind of thing that belongs
as a Disney Plus series.
>> Yeah. It's almost like they could have
done a sixpart series where he returns
each stone. It's like it was just
perfectly set up for them right there.
>> The soul stone would make a great final
one because he would finally I don't
know what the character growth would be
in that. I guess it would be him like
figuring out he wants to be with Peggy
even though he worked that out before
because he told Bucky he was going to do
it and stuff, but maybe him grappling
with that decision. like he's decided
he's going to end this talking to Peggy,
but as he returns each stone, he sees
all these problems and he has to finally
phase by phase realize, okay, I can't
solve this. Like I have to actually be
okay with Bucky being mind tortured for
decades.
>> I love all those memes where it's a
picture of Haley Atwell and it says,
"Yeah, I would have broke the timeline
for her, too." [laughter] I would
[snorts]
>> I think that they should do it they
should do it like the pit. They should
make each Infinity Stone uh one hour of
the day of Steve Rogers day and it's
about how in one day he has to return
all six Infinity Stones. I'd watch the
[ __ ] out of that. But just think too
he's going to be reading he's reading
the morning paper and he's like drinking
his coffee and he's thinking when Peggy
works for the should I tell her about
911? Yeah. Should I, you know, like all
these things he could help and prevent
over the decades, like all the people he
could help and save.
>> I want to see him pull a Brian from
Family Guy and like he gets in an
argument with someone and the guys like
challenges him to a fight anytime,
anywhere. And Steve's like, "All right,
Top of the World Trade Center."
[laughter]
>> Phil Rumba from Down Under Gave us
another eight Australian dollars and
said they put out too much content and
now it means nothing. endgame to
doomsday uh means that too much content
now means nothing. What a waste of time.
And I think it goes back to what we were
saying a second ago. It does start to
kind of numb you when you feel like
things don't necessarily lead to other
stuff. And again, I don't know. I don't
want to repeat myself, but I really feel
like the lack of Avengers movies at the
end of every phase killed the multiverse
saga more than anything else. But that's
a more systemic problem that comes from
Disney corporate um relying on their
cash cow too much because I don't know
their live action remakes didn't make as
much money as they thought.
>> I I'm fine with them not necessarily
having to lead to other stuff even but
quit pretending like it is that like
like the point Alex was making earlier
with the the postredit scenes. They
pretend like it's leading to something
but it doesn't. If you want to just do
like some solo movies that aren't
necessarily, you know, building to to
quote Skeletor, the Christian, no, you
just do the movie. Don't pretend like
it's going somewhere if it's not.
>> I got a good one before I get back to
the super chats. I think Eternal should
have been a TV series.
>> Mhm. That'd be an expensive ass TV
series.
>> It really would. But at that point,
>> Yeah. But hell, at that point, you're
talking about dumping like
>> $500 million on a season of Andor. like
Disney was investing in it like it was a
tech startup. That would have been to do
it.
>> I mean, it was
>> I would have been glued to the TV every
night, every night for 10 weeks,
watching Kingo and his beautifully
sculpted arms and abs. Justice for
Kumale's abs. As I always say, we never
got to blend.
>> I [screaming] know. And it's so
>> I hated killing Gilgamesh. I thought he
was great. That that was one character I
was like, "Oh, it hurts." And I know
he's a robot, so he can come back, but
he was my favorite Eternal. I really
hated to see him go.
>> That's a really good idea, Ryan, because
it is episodic that movie like which
doesn't necessarily work for a movie,
but you're jumping through different
timelines. So, even if you do the dual
timeline thing that every Prestige show
does, that would work really well. Have
the Eternals of the Present follow Kit
Harrington and his adventures and then
flash back every episode to show us a
different point in the Eternals history.
Well, and not to mention that the best
Eternals comic book is the Neil Gaiman
one where that's the structure. They
have all forgotten being Eternals and
Icarus goes around reminds them of who
they were. So, we discover along with
them who they were.
>> It's also Oh, sorry. Was saying
something or
>> Oh, maybe not. Go ahead. Sorry. I
thought you
>> It's Thank you. Uh, it's also not uh
insulting to make Eternals a show. I
know I, you know, [ __ ] about this all
the time, but there are certain things I
just don't think you downgrade to a TV
show, it belongs on a big screen.
Eternals, that's perfect for a TV show
because it's like a thing that really a
casual fan hasn't heard of that. I think
a TV I think Disney Plus Marvel shows is
a great place to introduce lower level
things like more obscure things. So
yeah, I I agree that would have been
maybe you can't have Angelina Jolie in
it but
>> why not? George Clooney was on TV. He
was in ER. You can put Angelina on TV.
Give it to me, baby.
>> Give an actor enough money, they'll do
either. They
>> Maybe they could. Yeah,
>> they could have got John Voy to do it.
[laughter]
>> John Voy was on TV. He was on Ray Ray,
whatever that show was called. Uh Cody
Hall gave us five bucks and said, "Which
villain would we like to see in the
first MCU X-Men outing?" I love this
question. Feel free to save your answer
for more dedicated stream. No, because I
think it goes back to what I was saying
about the X-Men should have already been
introduced into the MCU and Magneto.
>> Yeah, Magneto's never been in an X-Men
movie. How have we never had
>> Have we never seen that before?
>> It's crazy. He's a good character. Do
you guys know about Magneto? Have you
heard about him?
>> No.
>> Eric Magneto.
>> You like have any kind of [laughter]
close personal friend? Eric Magneto.
>> I love Eric Magneto.
>> Eric Magneto. That's what I call him in
my personal life.
>> And his arch and his arch nemesis,
X-Man. I love X-Men. [laughter]
>> I know that the comic nerd in me though
is like, "Oh, X-Man." Young Nathan from
the alternate future [laughter] age of
apocalypse.
>> That's what I'm talking about. What did
you think I meant?
>> I mean, low hanging fruits, Mr.
Sinister. I've said Mojo would be really
fun um in one of these movies. I think
we actually did a whole talkback on this
ones. Arcade would be terrible. Please
don't do Arcade. I I can't imagine that
working.
>> I know, but
>> I mean, depending on what they do with
Spider-Man brand new day, I almost feel
like they'll probably go the damage
control route where it's not necessarily
an apocalypse level villain or even a
Magneto level villain so much as the
government chasing after this young
team. That's what I see happening.
>> What do you guys think about the
possibility of Mr. Charles being William
Striker
>> or Henry Peter
>> Guy.
>> I'm down with that.
>> I like the idea of the X-Men versus the
government. I think that is the most
interesting. Uh
>> I like him better as Guyrick because
Guyrick has a little bit more reach in
the comics. Striker was a in the comics
was a preacher who they turned into, you
know, and I kind of like Striker as the
government opponent being from the X-Men
universe and being Brian Cox.
>> I like that being siloed there. What if
severance guy is not playing uh Mezer
and is playing Striker instead? Sorry,
I'm just theorizing now, but that'd be
cool. He'd be a cool Yeah, sorry. He'd
be a Every time I I I either call him
Severance guy or Devour fetchulence guy.
[laughter]
>> I I mean, talking about villains that
we've kind of seen a bunch already in
Xbad movies, it would be kind of neat if
it's Striker and there is a weapon X
program in the movie. You don't
[clears throat] see Wolverine, but that
is your setup for Wolverine somewhere
down the road. Perhaps there's a record
that they see somewhere in the offices
or something like that. I don't know.
>> Well, there have been so many other
weapons X, too. Like there that's a lot
of them over the years. Sorry, Colton, I
stepped on you.
>> Oh, and Bullseye is on the team. I I
think Bullseye has to be on team X or
whatever it's called. Yeah,
>> I think he's [snorts] a mutant, too.
Like I I think they're going to
retroactively go back and say he's a
mutant. Wonderman's a mutant. And that's
I think they're going to make a lot of
people mutants. And I think it's not
even going to necessarily be because the
universe reset because we're already
seeing in 616 like uh Miss Marvel's a
mutant. I think Bullseye is a mutant. I
think that there are mutants and as um
was it Agents of Shield that showed us
that there's a lot of just like random
super people, right? I I've only seen
like season one of Agents of Shield, but
didn't they like run into just like kind
of random
people? Yeah, that's interesting.
Mutants and enhanced. Enhancer is like
an outside event that causes the powers
to happen,
>> right? I I think that we could learn
that mutation
maybe is getting more and more rampant
and like more are being born and stuff,
but that it's always been a thing. They
just haven't discovered the gene until
the the gene, not the gene gray.
>> But that that's kind of disappointing,
too, that the you know, the Eternals is
based on this comic story line called
Earth X. It's alternate universe stuff,
but basically the the point of it is
that the reason the celestials gave
everybody this the celestial gene which
allows them to get superpowers was so
they could act as antibodies to protect
the the baby in the earth. And I always
thought that made a lot more sense than
oh yeah, we just need enough people to
get smart and then when [laughter]
there's enough people the brain waves
feed. I always thought that was just too
complicated. Like I would have kept it
that and that also would explain more
mutants because the baby's about to
hatch and there's more threats from
aliens. So the natural antibodies of the
planet are producing more powered people
as like Thanos invades etc etc.
>> Uh the stars 2049 gave us a couple super
chats. Says killing Wu and Shani was a
huge mistake. Tony Lungs's favorite
actor. Uh getting him in a Marvel movie
was like getting Tom. It's like if Tom
Hanks was Reed Richards. I I agree it
was a big mistake. And I also think
having a giant dragon at the end of
Shani was stupid. I wish [snorts] it
just been like to him and his dad.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. the other characters you guys are
like really should not have killed that
one. There was more for that character
to do.
>> I I'm kind of that way about almost any
character because once you kill the
character, you've cut off the story
line. I mean, like we were talking about
earlier, you could bring back anybody in
the Marvel universe, but it's it's a
bummer, you know, somebody I mean, I
think about things like uh Mickey Ror in
Iron Man 2 being so weird with his bird.
Maybe that movie wasn't great across the
board, but it would have been fun and
weird to see him show up. I I'm still
bummed
>> that we've never gotten like a really
good villain team at any point in the
MCU. And you know, we had the Black
Order. I don't think that necessarily
count, but like I would have loved to
see them leave everybody alive, put
everybody in prison, have them all break
out together and come back and attack
the Avengers. That's a classic comic
book trope, but it works for a reason
because it's fun. You're like, "Oh man,
that guy's with that guy. That's so
cool. And we've never
>> You get to see them play off each other.
I thought Infinity War would be Thanos
doing that. I thought, you know, because
in in the comics, Thanos has like all
this power because he gets the gems
early. And I thought, "Yeah, man. I want
to see like Iron Monger come back and
team up with all these other villains
and different Red Skull."
>> Wasn't that kind of the plan a little
bit? Wasn't there a little bit of an
initial idea of like Red Skull would was
gonna like be the villain of Avengers
and like some other villains from phase
one were gonna be brought in? Yeah, they
were going to do Red Skull uh before I
think when Weeden came on the I think
Zack Zack Penscript also had Loki, but
then they pivoted to Loki pretty quick
though. But they were talking about
having it be the Red Skull.
>> I was
>> I don't know if he was going to pull
other villains in.
>> I wasn't big on killing Natasha. I mean
that she's like my favorite
>> huge mistake.
>> Yeah, and just the way that they did the
Black Widow movie after was just such a
[ __ ] up on on Marvel's part. They rolled
that out so poorly. I am totally team
Scarjo. Even though she's like the
richest, highest paid actor in the world
or whatever. Uh I'm still on her team
because I think that the way that they
rolled out that movie [ __ ] sucked. It
was shitty to do to her. It was shitty
to do to all of us fans.
>> Well, that was the first one she was a
producer on. So, she was actually going
to make real like real money on it. Like
he was going to make [ __ ] you money.
>> Like like Colin Jo could quit SNL kind
of money, you know, be a house husband
if he want.
>> Wow. That would have been two wins.
[laughter]
>> A I like calling jokes.
>> I do too. I call them I call them Colin
jokes. As you can see, I just change
everyone's name.
>> I love when they have to read the jokes
that they write for each other.
>> Me, too. That's always the best.
>> This last one, I thought I don't know. I
wasn't as into the the last joke swap
they did. I I don't know. I think it
that that it's kind of wearing off. But
>> here here's a mistake. When did Black
Widow come out? I I know it got screwed
over with
>> 2021.
>> 2021.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Maybe this wouldn't have worked,
but that that Black Widow movie the
exact make it the exact same way you
made it, I think, would have been a
million times better and would have
performed a million times better. Not
even just because of the day and date
release and co and all that. Take that
out of it. If you had released it in
between Infinity War and Endgame.
>> Oh yes%
between Civil War and Infinity War.
>> Well, yeah. Yeah. if you want to go that
far back, but even between I think
Infinity War and Endgame, it would have
worked because they kind of did prequels
with um Captain Marvel, I I think you
>> I almost wonder if maybe the Black Widow
movie would have been better to slot in
there than Captain Marvel. I don't know.
And I really like Captain Marvel, but
>> yeah. [snorts]
>> Yeah, I think that helped it.
>> I think as far as that goes, we did a
video on this. I I just look at Matasha
and I go I think having that character
in the multiverse saga as the lone
Avenger standing would have made a lot
of sense. I think she would have been
the one to get the team together and you
know they were leaning toward that way
and we never got to see her in that
role. And it's funny the Black Widow has
never been in the comics like somebody I
would call a marquee Marvel hero, but
then
>> Anthony Ber into that. Yes, I would have
liked to have seen that continue,
>> dude. And the thing that sucks the most
is that the Jeremy Rener app is gone
now. So, Hawkeye has nowhere to talk
about how sad it is that he lost
Natasha.
>> [ __ ]
>> I know.
>> I think about that every day.
>> Journey Runner app.
>> I still have my notifications on for it.
I couldn't bring myself to delete it
from my phone. Arman said, "I don't
think we as a society are ready for
doomsday for two pounds." Thank you.
Brian Brick Brink gave us five bucks and
said the series name for bringing back
the Stones Avengers post game.
M
>> well done. Senpai AF gave us five bucks
and said, "Would you like it or hate it
if they said a lot of the past heroes if
they said a lot of the past heroes were
mutants or if society generalized all
heroes as mutants to segregate them?" I
would hate that. I would hate
>> I would love it.
>> I don't think uh it just because, you
know, it's it's two different things.
Mutants in the comics. It's also a thing
like, well, why do people think
Spider-Man's not a mutant and everybody
else is? Well, because he's not. I don't
know. Like it just kind of like there's
the X-Men and those characters and then
there's the other people. And what makes
the X-Men the X-Men is that they are not
regarded as heroes like the other
people. They are different. They are
weird. They're freaks. They have strange
powers and they're hairy and there's
stuff coming out of their heads and you
can't trust them. Whereas you can trust
Captain America. So no, I wouldn't like
that one though.
>> I think a lot of them are going to get
called mutants. I think the word mutant
is going to be a word that like the DODC
and all of the anti- super power people
are are going to use. Like I think
that's going to be a word we hear Jonah
Jameson spewing on live TV like these
damn
>> we're about to hear the real government
calling all of us mutants pretty soon.
Like come on,
>> right?
>> I I just don't want that to be the
actual definition of it. Like I think
mutants are a very specific thing where
you're born with this Xgene and etc etc
etc. if they want [clears throat] to use
it as like a scare tactic for the
public, like you know, mutant loving
collaborators, we have to arrest them
all or whatever they're going to say.
>> Well, not to get too in the weeds, but I
I really like the idea of if Spider-Man
didn't have a dormant mutant because,
okay, with Kamala, what happened was she
had the mutant X gene in in this in the
end, and the Bengals have activated it.
>> Wade Wilson had the mutant X gene. It
was activated through severe trauma. I I
think Bullseye went through severe
trauma. He could have it. I could think
an individual who got bit by a
radioactive spider and didn't have a
mutant exgene
begin to tell you the level of [ __ ] no u
that I associate with that. You've
you've brought that take up to me
before. No, Spider-Man's not a mutant.
It's fundamentally two completely
different things. It just is.
>> You don't think they're going to have
some sort of disagree.
>> You don't think they're going to have
>> They might. They might. And if they do
that in the movie, Colton, I'll hate the
movie. I just think it's a terrible,
terrible, terrible idea. I think it's
just Spider-Man's not a mutant. I don't
know. It's weird the things that I'll
put my foot down on. Like I'll watch all
the unjustice happen in the world and be
like, that seems unfortunate. But
somebody brings up the idea of gay Jedi
or Peter Parker being a mutant and I'm
like, I will fight you for this
[laughter] pie.
>> Go ahead.
>> I hope not.
>> No, no, no. I I was just going to say I
feel like they're gonna have a clean
break, right? like after Secret Wars
they're going to have some sort of thing
like oh this universe is radiated
differently so now the X gene exists and
then we have mutants going forward maybe
they'll retroactively turn some folks
but I think mostly like they've been
clearly clear X-M happens after Secret
Wars that's when the mutant saga starts
so that's when I think we're going to
get like our inciting incident for
whatever that status quo is
>> I don't know man I agree with Colton
though I think the mutant saga is going
to start this July in brand new day. I
think that they're going to start
seeding all this stuff then. I just
don't know why I I don't see how they
can do that and also introduce like, oh,
you know, you're Professor Xavier. I met
a Professor Xavier once in the
multiverse. That's interesting. I don't
know. They got to wipe everybody's
minds. Uh self-presence gave us five
bucks and said they could have enemies
on multiple fronts. The MLF, the
government Xfactor or Freedom Force. And
then uh then the people led by Striker
Creed, Friends of Yeah, I love that.
Like for the X-Men villains. I also
think that in the Avengers movies,
>> um, the villains have to be mutants. I
think for the mutant saga, you have to
have the Avengers going up against
villainous mutants. Like,
>> that's a great idea. I love that.
>> Good one. I like that a lot.
>> That feeds into this anti-mutant
hysteria thing you're talking about
where the government and everybody else
are saying, "Look, these dangerous
mutants." And it also builds up toward
eventually Avengers versus X-Men. Oh,
that's hot. That's good. [snorts]
And finally, last super chat. You're
welcome. Um, see, we're friends. We We
can disagree. We've disag
gave us five. Did I come off really
strong there? Sorry, Colton if I was too
argumentative. I really didn't like it.
>> There's a weird energy in the podcast
now. And I
>> I found it to be too much. But
>> I was a bit much, but you're always
home. You're not even out in the
universe at all. I can interact with
you.
>> I don't know.
>> Alexander Wilson gave us five bucks and
said, "Love and Thunder was the worst
MCU movie and is unwatchable to me. That
movie was truly awful. Hemsworth even
talked bad about it. Yeah, it's on my
list.
>> I don't like it. I don't know if it's
the worst.
>> I don't know, man. Watch the goat
compilation sometime on YouTube and try
not to laugh. That is the funniest,
stupidest joke. Those goats screaming
constantly made me laugh every time. But
>> I just think it's a waste of Gore the
God Butcher.
>> Sure.
>> Yeah. I think it was a huge waste of
Gore the God Butcher for sure.
>> What did you like about uh Love and
Thunder?
>> Nothing. I didn't like that movie very
much. I I like scene where Thor and the
Guardians were fighting Fraggle Rock.
That was it. [laughter]
>> That was it. I was like, "I love Fraggle
Rock. This is nice. What a nice cameo."
And then that was my favorite part.
>> My favorite part is when Thor is in the
very obvious CG helmet and he goes,
"Jane [laughter]
>> yeah." Or the floating head of the kid.
>> The floating head of the child. the most
disturbing and unsettling use of CGI in
a while that I've seen.
>> What about when he fed his hammer a
beer? [laughter]
>> Oh, and you had Christian Bale as Gore
the God Butcher, too. And it was all
these great story lines, Jane Foster,
Thor, and it just I don't know in terms
of like disappointment, that is probably
my biggest disappointment
>> as Gore the god, but he did like an
actual great job. And like the opening
scene like where he's begging that god
to help him and all that,
>> you know, he could have been the next
like Loki, like what Loki was for phase
one, like he's in a Thor movie and then
he's in the Avengers movie. You could
have totally had Gore the Godbusher been
the villain of whatever the that next
Avengers movie would have been and he
had Christian Bale. Why wouldn't you do
it?
>> Yeah, dude. You have Christian Bale.
>> I would just recommend to anybody
listening or watching, if you haven't
read the Jason Aaron run on Thor, it's
about 100 issues. It's just incredible.
And if you read that, then you'll you'll
dislike Love and Thunder even more. I
feel like Taikoini just got too put too
much of himself in it. There's too much
Corg. Corg is great in Ragnarok and he
just overwhelms the movie by joking
about everything. Everything's a joke.
There's no stakes and there are real
stakes in that movie. They're going to
kill all the gods. Jane has cancer. It's
some real stuff that could have been
more heady to balance off that humor.
>> I I am struggling to think of a worse
one.
>> You know, I said I don't know if it's
the worst one. I'm struggling to think
of
>> pretty bad.
>> I really don't like it. I there's a lot
of MCU movies other people like and I
don't I don't like Captain Marvel very
much. I don't like Deadpool and
Wolverine, but I'd rather watch Deadpool
and Wolverine than Love and Thunder.
>> I would watch Deadpool and Wolverine
over Love and Thunder any day of the
week. And I was not a big Deadpool and
Wolverine fan because that's the other
thing that I didn't like that I wish
that they didn't do is that I hate it so
much when they come back in like a
sequel of any kind, even if it's like
the third one or whatever, and all of
the resolution from the previous movie
has just been erased off screen. I hate
that more than anything. So, the fact
that he and Vanessa were broken up after
he went through all that, after all that
they've been through, after he brought
her back to life and they were planning
on having a baby together, they just
break up offcreen. I [ __ ] hate that
so much. That's like my biggest pet
peeve when movies do that. You want to
know the most egregious version of that?
Paul Blart Mop 2. Paul Blart Mop 2
undoes all of the all of the learning
and the growth that Paul Blart
experienced in Paul Blart Mop 1. And
like I [ __ ] hate it. So in Yeah, in
my opinion, Wolverine and Paul Blart
Mall 2 are on the same level of movie
for me.
>> I thought you were gonna say Alien. I
thought you were gonna say Alien 3, but
that's just me. Like when they killed at
the beginning,
>> they took Who played the It wasn't Anna
Ferris, was it? For some reason, I
thought it was. Who was
>> No, you're thinking you're thinking of
Observe and Report, which is a similar
movie,
>> right? No, no, no. But but I I do know
which part.
It's with Kevin.
>> It's all part of the shared Mop
universe. That's
>> who's the actress that plays his love
interest because they take her from
being this really awesome sweet person
and they just like completely turn her
into this horrible character in the
second one. The first Mop is so good.
That second one is awful and just in the
face of that first movie. Did they kill
her the face of Paul Blart?
>> They didn't kill her off. They had her
divorce him. Like she like leaves him
for someone.
>> Yes. She leaves him at the beginning of
two and she [ __ ] divorces him. And
I'm like that undoes all of the progress
of Paul Blart Mall cop one. This is
[ __ ] up. This is [ __ ] up.
>> Why did he defend the rainforest cafe if
it was just going to end up like this? I
hate it.
>> And do not get me started on Land Before
Time 4: Journey Through the Mist. That
movie in particular funded so much
progress that was earned through LOOT 1
through3. Am I right, guys? We got to
end it there. I have to go see
Disclosure D. [laughter] I didn't
realize what time it was.
>> Oh [ __ ] It's 3:00. You got to go. You
literally have to go. Uh, we just have a
couple more super chats. We'll get to I
guess I should take Colton off here.
[laughter]
>> Yeah,
>> a couple more super chats. Road Running
gave us two pounds $2 and said, "What
makes CGI so expensive? Always been
curious." It's actually design. It's
It's bringing all the monsters and and
dragons and things in from other
universes and putting them up and
filming them. And it's the magic that's
involved like the spirit.
>> Yeah, dude. It's really the airfare for
dragons is like so expensive these days.
It's like a lot.
>> Yeah. The large planes. The larger
planes do.
>> Yeah. No, you have to get like a much
larger plane because you'd think that
they would just fly themselves, but no,
they all want PJs. Disgusting.
>> And also, I should we should have
mentioned this at the start. A lot of
fairy dust was shipped to the straight
of Hormuz.
>> So, because of that, the price is like
astronomical right now, right? And
Darien Thompson, friend of the channel,
gave us five bucks and says Spider-Man
doesn't need cameos. This is a great
take. Captain America should have had at
least uh should have had at Captain
America should have had at least called
Ant-Man. I don't know what that means.
Give him someone to lead. Oh, Captain
America movie should have had Ant-Man in
the film. U also I need more content for
Whitney. I agree. So, I I think what the
point there is that Spider-Man's in the
MCU and Sony wants to take advantage of
that by putting Doctor Strange or all
these Nick Fury and all these other MCU
characters in the film. I think as long
as the rights are owned by Sony, that's
never going to change. I think he'll
always have an MCU character appearing
in his films.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I think the problem that people
point out is it constantly being a
mentor for him, which I don't know if
that's going to change this movie. It
seems like maybe not with Bruce Banner
necessarily but
>> you know, I I like having Spider-Man in
a shared world. That was the giddy joy
[clears throat] of having him join the
MCU. So, having him literally and
figuratively swing around and see all
these other characters is great. But the
issue is making them be like these
bearded guys who need to teach Peter
Parker lessons versus him having his own
story.
>> And hopefully Brand New Day doesn't do
that. And we got to call it there. Uh
Whitney, you can find Whitney on the
channel Whitney Vision covering Rick and
Morty right now. Tons of animation.
Thanks Whitney. It's always great having
you on.
>> Thank you. See you guys later. Bye.
>> See you later. Bye. And Alex Alvin. You
can find him on the Comic Book Club
podcast which is linked down below.
Thanks Alex.
>> Thank you. Thanks for having me on.
And we want to hear from you guys. Let
us know down in the comments below or on
our free to join Discord server or on
Substack where you can find me what you
think the MCU's biggest mistake was.
Also, if you have any ideas for other
kinds of live streams like this. We
don't always have to talk about biggest
mistakes, biggest successes, just
anything you'd like to see us talk
about. Let us know in the comments. And
if it's your first time here, please
subscribe. Smash that bell for alerts.
For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Eric. [music]
>> [music]