[00:10] program might contain strong language if you think you may be offended switch off [Applause] [Music]
[00:22] inside Mojo podcast where each week we highlight a key moment in watch Mojo's 20y year history on YouTube I'm your host Rob with me as always is our CEO and co-founder Ashan carbus Ruan and today we're talking about one of the
[00:36] highest highs and lowest lows of watch Mojo isn't that right they go together it's a pair it's a tandem let's talk about the journey to 1 million Subs the long arduous Journey yeah I mean it took us what six seven years so um you know I
[00:53] think during the 2010s it was like the period of like super serve your audience go really Niche or Niche um but when YouTube started I mean it was a bit of a free-for-all and uh you know as we've discussed while there was obviously
[01:06] first like pirated content then a lot of the vloggers we you know were admittedly in the first few years just treating YouTube like just another platform you know it was like we were producing videos on like I said Automotive tips uh
[01:19] videos on like I said Automotive tips uh Fashion Beauty uh travel entertainment different formats biographies profiles q&as and top 10 and admittedly like what does that mean you know to a user you know if you're a user and you choose to
[01:33] vote with subscribe uh subscription you didn't really know what you were going didn't really know what you were going to get and I think um today subscribers good morning Tyler today uh by the way we're going very early today thank you
[01:45] was in New York yesterday for a board meeting and I'm I'm going down south taking the gals on their spring break vacation so I was like we have to do whole point is frequency a week we must be diligent we
[01:59] must be diligent I mean if you guys go on vacation we don't have to do it but I'm like I'm here for you guys anyway so um back to focus Ash so I think today's subscribers are a vanity metric and it makes sense right like let's say you rob
[02:13] you subscribe to 20 channels and they each publish a video that day you don't want to get 20 notifications right um but early on subscribers were important 10,000 just as a little bit of a motivation for anybody watching you know
[02:27] we started off in 2006 200 we launched the official um watch Modo Channel but we had one called FR before and yeah it took forever because I think it it didn't hit me yet that like well people want like a very like what am I
[02:42] subscribing to you know if you if you subscribe to Sports Illustrated you were Fortune you would get business U articles and so it took a while but really I would say as we've covered in the previous shows we found like our
[02:55] product Market fit and then we after taking six years to hit 10,000 or five years then the sixth year we went from 10,000 to 100,000 and that's when I was 10,000 to 100,000 and that's when I was like okay we're clearly finding a
[03:10] connection with you know you have viewers you want to convert your viewers subscribers into an audience and a community but that's really you want then fans yeah you know and like if you look at it as a pyramid there might be
[03:25] 1% that are hardcore fans then you might have 10 20 30% who are part of your community and then you have a lot of people that are passers by and that given our editorial scope and range we have a lot of people that are just
[03:39] watching a video and whatnot but yeah and then so finally in 2012 to and then so finally in 2012 to 2013 we went from a 100,000 we 10x to a
[03:51] million um and we had already launched a suggest tool which early on was a great way for users on our site to give you know idea topics vividly I was sitting on my couch it was like 9:10 p.m. and I was like refresh
[04:05] refresh refresh in the background I was watching the World Series I think it was game seven Boston Red Sox were ah there you go there you go iconic moments so you go there you go iconic moments so literally this happened like minutes
[04:19] later we hit a million and this stays with me and people are like you have a you remember these it's a big moment it's a big moment and it was like game seven of uh you you know the r the World Series and so long story short um we hit
[04:36] a million and then from there the next year we 5x sorry as people are seeming Tex you're popular this morning ah occasionally anyway so so no it was a great moment and um I felt like I was Top of the World um but obviously this
[04:52] was I think October and then uh we continued but uh as you said it wasn't just all upwards and to the right there were definitely going to be some um and this was like at the time we would like try to not just do um you know our top
[05:07] 10 to kind of develop a rapport with the community this was watch Mojo Lady Rebecca and Dan who was uh another one of our kind of VoiceOver I mean we all did so many things Dan was like Rebecca writer researcher and we all wore many
[05:21] hats and it was a great period I mean it was honest to God um I really really felt like you know the next year we would take over the world trajectory there was always like you know two steps forward one step back
[05:35] with YouTube shortly after hitting a million where they were like within the next year you'll be you'll be going from 1 million to 8 million and they were all enthusiastic about the the trajectory that you were on why do you think that
[05:48] was well so what happened was us being based in Montreal I don't even know if time in Montreal so whenever like certain exe and and like the YouTube kind of power base was in San Bruno and in the in in near San Fran so I would
[06:02] meet them so I was like hey if ever you have like senior execs in New York or Toronto they may not want to Trek to an hour flight right so I was like I'll gladly come down so yeah our our channel
[06:17] singer who was one of the the goats you know like watch Bono's history she'd be one of the 10 people who really played a part as an outsider because we were there was always something you know that I'd wake up to that we'd have to fix her
[06:31] or remedy but so she was like you know this this gentleman Alex Carlos is going went and it was kind of it reminded me of that scene in Wolf of Wall Street early on when Leo DiCaprio start is starting his career and he's having uh
[06:47] you're gonna bring me a martini and one more and one more where Matthew mccon he is like you're gonna bring me more martinis until I pass the [ __ ] out type of thing great scene by the way um and when when Matthew mcc's character is
[06:59] things and you'll make a ton of money and Leo's just like oh my God you know like smitten so I was like oh wow 8 billion subs and you know it's after five years of like wandering in the desert finding product Market fit which
[07:11] the end of the tunnel was like an oncoming train and again here you go so like end of October hit a million we keep growing and growing early December I go to Toronto meet them have lunch you're going to hit he was like how
[07:27] where have you been how many views how many subscribers he's like I reckon next year at this point you'll be at 8 million subscribers I was like oh wow million subscribers I was like oh wow and then three days later I wake up and
[07:39] and then three days later I wake up and the channel is down um yeah which sucked were you know you had a lot of momentum at that time like obviously this was like a news story that watch Mojo had gone down so what happened exactly so to
[07:53] be honest with you this was not even like okay so what happened even like okay so what happened basically was we had really good because as I've mentioned we would like interview Lady Gaga we would interview
[08:07] Justin Bieber we do you know q&as with the directors and they were sending us electronic press kits and even somewhere here I have a beta tape as like a symbol like I did not break into Warner music's headquarters and steal this they
[08:21] evidently sent it to us it was always like a symbol so I did have this people to think we're like a rogue operation like we're eth we we were like a good corporate player so rights holders were generally like starting to
[08:34] learn content ID which I always said was a weapon of mass destruction so they set rules right like they could be like if any of our IP is used issue a copyright strike but there are cases and it's precedent and law that like a rights
[08:50] holder has to consider could this be fair use they can just use these tools uh like a weapon of mass destruction but because rights holders it's not like the
[09:02] VP of marketing is sitting there like doing this they hire shops a lot of them were like in the Philippines or you know lower cost environments where their mandate is just issue claims and Strikes so what happened was we did get a couple
[09:16] of strikes by a rights holder and they were like yeah it's fine we'll retract the this this strike because it's not like a it's not a valid copyright infringement case right so they like we'll we'll retract it but at the time
[09:32] YouTube itself was navigating fair use and dmca Digital Millennium Copyright Act and trying to establish content ID rules and we would kind of share cases permission of some rights holders be like look these guys don't have an issue
[09:48] you are interpreting the law and you're allowed to and implementing it in a way my argument as we've covered on previous episodes was if you're trying to be a episodes was if you're trying to be a neutral plat form to be protected by the
[10:02] safeguards of the dmca and the Telecommunications Act well then you can't now actually be judge and jury yeah so and they would again to their credit it took time it was a huge company they were being sued by Viacom
[10:15] but it were always kind of like I mean I hope this term is not offensive you know you're like everybody's shooting at one another we were just always caught in the in the crossfire so even though the rights holder retracted the claims
[10:30] YouTube had to literally process these retractions so even though heading into like the Christmas uh Hanukkah Quanza holiday season we were like okay these
[10:42] claims have been retracted a bit early to to see some guy's butt by the way he cut cut off just in time just in time so even though the the strikes were retracted YouTube did not process the retractions so it was like after a
[10:57] certain number of days we were like The Penalty Box and automatically our Channel went down and actually in the tenure overnight success that's the opening scene you know of the book where I'm at
[11:09] the mall in Montreal with my daughter who at the time was five and we're waiting in line to go see Santa Claus and she's five and her face was so round today I'd be like [ __ ] it I'll deal with it when I get home but at the time it's
[11:22] like Blitz cre you know it's like to you it's like Pearl Harbor you're like you got to react you know um and so I was like Roxy my love if you don't mind can we do Santa Claus like next week Daddy has to
[11:35] go home now couldn't even find the car in the parking my head was elsewhere it was just like it was like everything you know and I was like rushing home and didn't want to crash the car and you want to be stoic and you want to be like
[11:49] it's like the cop stops you it's like get out of the car get out of the car did something wrong maybe I stole this car and so I got home and I fired off
[12:01] again like a diplomatic but very tur email to YouTube being like you guys email to YouTube being like you guys can't keep on the one hand asking content creators to embrace the platform and go all in which at the time YouTube
[12:13] I knew was not a pariah but was seen as a pariah but I was like get your [ __ ] act together I go here here are all the emails the rights holders have retracted it we sent it to you and I was like we're not going to go public like other
[12:26] creators and Bash you and then the way they apologized they apologized they're like yeah this was like a procedural thing so to their credit um Monday we were waiting for the channel to come back up and for me it was
[12:40] embarrassing professionally because it was like you know guilty before you know Screw the innocent till proven guilty it was like judge and jury you got shot in the parking lot you know and then I remember one of my colleagues Kevin
[12:52] walking in uh to my office and he's like I think the site's back up I'm like the I was like well that's not celebrate and but it was just you know it's like a harrowing experience but when I look back it's all good and it's part of the
[13:05] journey it also it allowed me actually to become a bit more like proactive with the team to be like look I don't micromanage but just because we think process this or that I'm like let's just double check so I was like look if in
[13:20] the future I'm like are you sure did they retract the claim could you email them could you get a confirmation I always then could point to the hack not was another incident but I could I could point to the the channel going down to
[13:33] be like hey I'd rather not micromanage you but let's not leave anything to chance so and so we came back up but it was like very symbolic of the you know step forward one step back it was like two three steps forward but there was
[13:46] always one step back there was always like a nice [ __ ] Burger waiting for you I imagine watch MOA couldn't have been the only big channel to be affected in a representation of what was going on across the platform at that time yes yes
[14:02] I mean look the reality was behind the scenes so I would it was later on let's there's like platform risk there's uh Community guidelines there's uh you know best practices there's misleading later on during covid there was all
[14:18] disinformation you know and then copyright was one of the other things so again being an intellectually honest self-aware individual I was like we use self-aware individual I was like we use third-party IP some of it licensed some
[14:31] of it under marketing like explicit permission whatever but a lot of it through fair use so I wasn't like oh my God the Injustice poor I was like look I Diplomatic Canadians you know between being born in Iran growing up in Canada
[14:46] I was very diplomatic with them even though I probably gave some other was like I had a business to run I had to take care of my employees if the Channel's down we're [ __ ] it's not very complicated but yes I think
[14:59] ultimately we were always a bit more understanding and empathetic and I never wanted to like Drive the Google uh YouTube employees crazy but it was like everybody who was on YouTube had to navigate one thing or another sometimes
[15:13] it was just like Community violation which didn't make sense um but yeah I mean for us I think the fundamental balance was behind the
[15:25] scenes I was always helping other channels like even to the St people hey I saw a video you did on Content ID or Community violations uh could you help me I know it's a long shot and they're surprised when I go okay I think
[15:39] response you should go with or I even I go like could you just give me some details and I think people are like okay like surprised but I'd like to help there it's it's the least I could do but but yeah it was maybe I won't lie maybe
[15:52] forceful like I'll never forget when YouTube started to do like shindigs and invite Channel Partners at the time the CEO of Maker Studios who was that was a multi- Channel network eventually acquired by Disney for like $700 million
[16:07] so their CEO was I apologize I don't know if it's Enon or Inon kites but now he's the CEO of Mattel and he just got up and he was like you [ __ ] should get your act together you know and I was like imagine somebody invites you to
[16:22] their house or their headquarters and you're like the soup sucks ass you know I was like again my my upbringing you know again I'm Canadian I'm I'm American trained as a business person but to me it was like oh my God but you know he
[16:36] was right he was right to call them out whereas I was like uh excuse me could you get this stick out of my ass and this like lumbar out of my ear it's like the [ __ ] is our Channel down we didn't do anything wrong but again at that
[16:50] moment you want to be diplomatic you want to be gracious but over time you become more assertive so yeah everybody was dealing with one thing or another and everybody felt like the world is against us whereas I was at the time
[17:03] like look guys we use third party IP we have to navigate and this is part of the racket the analogy I used to use was I go imagine you run a bar and you love it you love the the the the vibe the music the good-looking people the drinks but
[17:18] yeah once every couple days or nights some guy gets drunk or you either gets that breaks out you don't like to see that but it's part of running a bar it's it's part of it so for us it was kind of part of the racket but yeah
[17:34] like the year two or three of what was like a very very stressful 10-year like a very very stressful 10-year period did their execs realize like the urgency of this uh like right away like how did they respond to to the the
[17:48] calling out so to speak that that they got from some of the the channels affected yeah so you know obviously there were so many Executives I you know I've said this already always see the best in people I always project people
[18:01] to be a lot more virtuous than they are if I could be candid now so I don't want to paint them all with one brush you'd be surprised they were actually always very nice and professional and diplomatic I think YouTube and this is
[18:14] YouTube versus Google and all that so Google was really like yeah the the brainchild of Sergey Brin and Larry paig a couple of Stanford grads they built then they brought in like some really
[18:29] then they brought in like some really people like Omi cordani aano many others but they had like this kind of like Golden Goose golden egg whatever like this kind of like just the best system ever that they kind of fell ass
[18:43] we've covered why Google became successful they weren't the first they got a lucky deal with Yahoo and just a lot happened for them to to win and I love Google like I own a ton of shares I've always been super pro Google I even
[18:57] defend them but Google developed this sense of like the superiority complex where they would hire really smart people from a select number of schools only and they all felt like again I could say this now maybe 15
[19:12] sounds a bit mean but they really felt like they [ __ ] built Google like they constructive part in like the origins of Google when they didn't to be honest they just kind of got hired and it was just like a money printing machine and
[19:26] they kind of built this dominant business okay so that's Google The Google employees that ended up going to YouTube after Google bought up going to YouTube after Google bought YouTube were kind of the Misfits and
[19:41] this is like anecdotal and direct testimony and conversations I've had but it's like decades old there I don't think anybody cares a lot of like the guys and gals who left Google to go to YouTube after it acquired YouTube were
[19:54] like the you know the Misfits the the Risk Takers you know the the weirdos you know like the people who are like yeah this YouTube is like this weird new thing but let's go work there right but because Google video failed
[20:09] spectacularly and then Google bought Yahoo uh YouTube YouTube was always like kind of like a bit different culture-wise right the people that went to YouTube I always felt did not have the same chip on their shoulder as the
[20:26] Google people that felt they were like master of the universe that built this money printing Superior product so to me as like somebody that likes organizational behavior psychology you know people and like get into it I
[20:39] love Google and I love all their employees but I felt the Google employees were like overconfident when they had really not built anything right they improved it they [ __ ] improved
[20:53] they [ __ ] improved everything conversely I felt the YouTube employees were a bit like more demure and more like humble like pound-for-pound and they were always like yeah you know we experiment we try
[21:07] we've done things but we don't always get it right and I sense that they always actually came to us especially in hindsight to be like best practices what
[21:20] do you do but but also because they realized I wasn't just like some Creator who had zero understanding of business management the law technology Finance would try to explain it I'd be like yeah that makes sense because of this or that
[21:36] makes sense because of that so they were always even if behind closed doors or were like ash is crazy he emailed us again what is the status on this like false modesty aside we it's their platform it's their decision but we
[21:49] platform it's their decision but we helped shape Content ID policies in the because at first they were Soul tilted to the rights holders and it didn't make sense given the way the dmca and that works um but I actually felt they were
[22:01] always very gracious they were very empathetic uh because we were also we had to be a bit more assertive when need be but I always felt that they were kind of you know I always felt they were kind of like cool and uh you know
[22:15] understanding but but they also they didn't care in the sense that it was a was like oh we're going to leave they were like okay s houra don't let the door hit you on your ass buddy uh before we continue on on that note I just want
[22:29] poll that has gone up on our YouTube channel we would like to know how long the very beginning has it been less than 10 years or are you a new subscriber so head over to our YouTube page and weigh in on that and we'll get to the results
[22:44] at the end of the show uh let's talk a little bit more about the reality of being on a platform that you don't own or have ultimate control about yeah so one of the main criticisms of watch Mojo and one of the criticisms I got not
[23:00] professional decision I made was building on YouTube VC's journalists Executives my [ __ ] neighbor you know my blind dog everybody everybody had an clue but everybody had an opinion on this they were like you're making a
[23:15] mistake why would you do this yada yada and for years I listened to them but the reality is look watch Mojo is one of the greatest digital media success stories even if tomorrow like [ __ ] King Jung ill hits nuclear strike on our
[23:28] headquarters and we're we're forgotten like our 20year history will go down as one of the greatest like startup stories yada yada again we're not owed anything tomorrow but so that is just a fact right from on any metric you know and I
[23:42] don't care I don't I'm not here to this is free advice for those that want to be I don't need to [ __ ] prove anything to anybody but so the point I'm getting at is people had to be realistic that I was
[23:56] like the world is moving towards these big platforms these technology platforms yes some [ __ ] octogenarian suar redstone on his deathbed was like content is King and we'll we'll use that line because it works for us but that's
[24:10] because you're lazy you didn't actually read what the [ __ ] the guy was saying he was just saying new content sorry new distribution opens up the Avenues for new content so content is King because he's a [ __ ] content owner but I was
[24:22] like get your heads out of your ass the world is moving to these distribution platforms and so for us though I like animal farm all platforms are equal but some are more equal than others so I was also like you
[24:35] [ __ ] who's sitting here and like reading something that Mark Zuckerberg did on Facebook you're then making this giant Le to make a comment about YouTube
[24:47] and I would explain to them that Google because they became this trillion doll business because they shared Revenue they sent traffic away it was actually yeah they could be evil they could be greedy you could be this Socialist
[25:00] your jar of Vaseline and your bag of Cheetos complaining about the world but I'm like Google actually understood the power of an ecosystem and yes that was transferred that ethos that DNA was
[25:14] transferred to YouTube where even if they view us all as pawns and they don't give two-thirds of zero [ __ ] about like individual creators they do realize that the ecosystem has to be healthy so I was like if you are lazy like even with fair
[25:29] use even the lawyers who are experts the smart the the intellectually honest ones were like ash is a Layman he's not a lawyer but unlike you Lardo he reads the cases he reads the precedent so his arguments are not
[25:44] copyright as this or that you know so if you actually were not intellectually lazy you would understand that YouTube was just something different which today again is the proof number one in [ __ ] video number one in [ __ ] podcast
[25:59] number one in music number one entertainment platform but all these and that's the thing you know there's a great saying don't ask for the like
[26:11] don't care about the criticism of someone whose opinion you won't ask right you know like I go up to employees zero experience green clueless lost that se and because I I value opinion and our business I can't just be like in 1995 I
[26:25] watched Seinfeld I'm like what are you watching you know like it's a different thing and I I think of the world differently but I should have not wasn't going to kind of listen to them and go build a media company based on
[26:38] last year's Playbook um so you know the reality was I would diplomatically tell them okay like we think this is the way to go but yeah nobody really wanted to build and I think it's driven by greed also where
[26:51] their revenue that could be generated from their IP with YouTube but as I said I love that YouTube has made millions of dollars from us uh trillions in fact no we've made a lot of money as well right so you have to have that mindset and it
[27:07] is what it is so I do feel a bit of like Vindication this is not anger maybe it's but I mean it is a bit like tiresome when you think about it that like for 10 convince people but then at net I'm like why did you need to convince anybody
[27:22] just let them let them drive off a cliff you know fair enough uh did you see any other p platforms that had similar issues with Content ID or maybe even continue to have issues with it yeah I mean Facebook was like a god Facebook
[27:36] was just a [ __ ] show disaster like from the beginning because Facebook's problem was that Mark Zuckerberg really did not give a [ __ ] about content storytelling media like zero you know and that's fine he's a Silicon Valley guy Tech guy he
[27:50] wants to you know not like Elon go to Mars but the equivalent of you know go to Mars so he always I think viewed video as like a means to an end a necessary evil and you know Facebook's employees were also for the most part
[28:05] like nice people but you would need that one [ __ ] as well who was just like some bitter loser who was like a reject of Hollywood but like hired by Facebook to navigate video but you sensed his bitterness and his like his own
[28:18] insecurities and like I just could tell that like Facebook has a lot more internal issues and they don't have their purpose they don't have their res the why is why are we in [ __ ] video
[28:31] right so there was a lot of companies I remember this one little things you know they happened to build a business on Facebook Al go change disappeared byebye entrepreneurs who built the business on Facebook and again I was like amicably
[28:47] just saying like I'm not sure Facebook is that stable but I also understood the reality that they had caught lightning on Facebook so it made sense for them so Facebook to me was just you know not at all stable it was like it was like the
[29:01] in a way so it was like there was no reason to really lean in um and yeah I that and you know I think what I love about what's happening now is YouTube
[29:14] has really separated from the rest of the class you really have to be a [ __ ] to really look at YouTube the way you would look at meta insta Tik Tok crapster whatever um and I think to their credit YouTube's doing a good job
[29:28] of articulating why you know CTV connected TVs are it's the it's the main consumption platform on YouTube so it's kind of more like traditional TV whether you like to admit it or not or coming out and communicating that they're you
[29:40] know they've surpassed Spotify to become the number one podcasting platform they whether you like it or not you know it's more people watch YouTube music than um you know anything else um yeah no so I think you know it's it's to me the
[29:56] takeaway is when you have an idea as an entrepreneur or a Storyteller you're never going to get the so-called perfect conditions that you want you really really are going to be like you have to compromise and you have to give and take
[30:09] um and that really does explain a big chunk of our success basically I have a note here about Market analogy and watermelons which I don't understand but I need to ask you what this is I've alluded to this saying imagine like
[30:22] doesn't need to be watermelons could be oranges Tomatoes you could have like you know the greatest apple and you want people to come to your farm and you want people to come to your farm and take pick apples at your farm and
[30:34] that's a good experience and it's fun but if you want to be in the Apple business you have to go to the markets you have to go where the people are and when the consumers go you can't just assume that you're better tasting Apple
[30:47] can't just assume that your sweeter apple is going to draw in the interest of others that's the point right so a lot of people throughout the 2010 tens were still in this mindset that I have
[31:00] the sweetest apples people are going to come to my farm and eat the apples here and I was like it's just a [ __ ] Apple whether I eat your Apple or that Apple it's convenience and for me I'm going to walk two blocks to a market where I
[31:14] oranges and tomatoes and that's what YouTube was becoming it was just you know even today before the show we were just talking about what we consume and what we watch YouTube I also used to tell a lot of creators who were like
[31:27] YouTube is this you guys use Clips you guys are top 10 I was like shut up more people that watch our [ __ ] content than yours I didn't say this to them then but I was like okay thank you for your feedback you know blardo but
[31:42] the point I'm getting at is yes I mean YouTube has become two billion things to two billion different people so it's not what I think is YouTube or what you understand that we live in a world of Niche it's no longer 1960 where you
[31:58] could run an ad for Pepsi on ABC NBC or CBS and reach 80% of America yeah you actually have to work you know I love marketers I'm a marketer at heart
[32:10] in a way a Storyteller I like I like all these functions but marketers are lazy cut through the Clutter you got to roll up your sleeves and work right and but because things are so much more nich and targeted now yeah of course because if
[32:24] you're like um you know I mean okay yes but like I sometimes get pitches from entrepreneurs who are like oh we're we launched this like new Media Company targeting dads uh and I'm a dad of two gals so I'm interested let's say in that
[32:40] you know or this week I got this gentleman was like I think affluent gentleman was like I think affluent blacks are under served in the market um and I said you're right I go anecdotally I go I'm not black but I go I do think
[32:53] you're right about that but my question to after a few exchanges was do you need a dedicated media brand yes as a viewer as a user if you're an affluent black you might care about different topics and that I don't doubt
[33:08] but if you're a marketer and ultimately marketing underwrites this do you need a dedicated like media brand for affluent blacks or could you reach affluent black people through programmatic different places they're around they're on our
[33:22] Channel they're on Yahoo right so yes it is better because the world is more is better because the world is more segmented a niche but it's also harder worse in a way because you know it's it's it's hard to support those those
[33:37] media Publications as well you know because ultimately not that many people subscription and I don't know if the dollars are there the way that they used to be in magazines where you could go and buy some ads you know print ads it
[33:51] was just programmatic is changing the rules right so that's also a good um like point you made which is you could have in 2025 a really smart editorial strategy but that may not anymore translate to a good commercial
[34:07] strategy and so you do really need to start with the macro you know you it's a balance you have to balance your strengths your what you care about with interesting um so we have our poll results in we asked how long have you
[34:20] results in we asked how long have you been watching watch Mojo and uh about 33% of people said for around 10 years uh 30 3% said a couple of years 25% said from the beginning so the the OG's and 8% said that they are new subscribers so
[34:35] we have a lot of longtime viewers that's great I mean it's bittersweet I don't want to lie I'm a human so I have like yesterday I checked out of the hotel and the the lady was like uh can I email you the the invoice or receipt the whatever
[34:49] your email I gave her my email watchmojo.com and she was like thank you the the web she used website I'm assuming she met Channel but maybe she's was like I love the website and I get that a lot now and it's sound like it
[35:05] the generation I grew up on YouTube so they know us but okay false mody aside subscribers it's great but I also have this part in me that wants to go like ballistic and break chairs when people say and it's a good thing but it's when
[35:21] they're like oh I remember years ago I used to watch watch moo it's like it's like oh memories of my childhood you know and I get it if somebody started know and I get it if somebody started watching us 15 years ago okay now they
[35:34] got kids they got a mortgage it's a bit different so that's one of my personal kind of just things that I'm I'm like okay let's draft on that and you know you always say you want as a dealmaker your best deal to be tomorrow not
[35:48] score your greatest goal your biggest victories tomorrow so even with watch mjo I'm like I want to make sure that over the next 20 years watch mjo's best days are ahead of it you know right and also that's why I hired and I working
[36:03] you need a team and you need people who believe in that if you have people this is anything a business a team if you have people that aren't committed like in hockey there's a couple of players that got traded recently and they went
[36:17] from playing with like Nathan the Ranon and guy he was playing with McKinnon getting like a 100 points he's now in Carolina and it's like is he a fraud but it's not that he's a fraud he just doesn't have that same passion and that
[36:29] same fire and you got to cut that guy you got to just trade him for a bag of pucks because he's not going to be contributing to the team's goals you know so I do think that part of it is okay we've been around for 15 20 years
[36:44] forward and not just rest on our Laurels and have a big head because of something that happened 10 years ago right that's a that's a great mindset and and on that note let's say watch Mojo didn't exist and you were starting from scratch today
[36:58] what what would your approach be only FS I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm kid there's a market for everything there no there is but like not General no so look it's like you got to be careful because yeah we talk about Hollywood being gatekeeper
[37:14] and there's toxic people right and same thing there's some great people work in there's some very arrogant [ __ ] let's say ultimately we've traded Gatekeepers for these Tech Overlord
[37:29] platforms right like we are at the mercy of Elon Musk what he ate and how he feels this morning you know if to whereas like Google YouTube is more professional it's a bunch of Executives that's also something we didn't touch on
[37:43] but so I still think the best game in town is YouTube yes I tell people go look at snap go look at x x I think is a very promising platform but it ain't very promising platform but it ain't YouTube it could be Tik Tok it could be
[37:57] Facebook you know if if Elon wakes up tomorrow and goes oh people are using tomorrow and goes oh people are using videos to trash me and to ridicule Tesla he's GNA [ __ ] disable video you know what I'm not saying he would but that's
[38:10] the kind of guy he is he's clearly he's a brilliant genius but he's also very insecure and I've said it everybody is driven by insecurities so I still think at a high level YouTube is the place to be but I think a lot of people are lazy
[38:26] or don't open the blinds where I'm like don't look in the rear view like if you want to come and are like I want to do a top 10 Channel featuring Clips on entertainment I'm like bro bro look forward you know and we talked about
[38:40] forward you know and we talked about whether it's space science cloning AI blockchain something what are the things that the fandoms the communities that are going to emerge then find the platform format fit you know do you do
[38:55] explainers do you do whatever so I I definitely think YouTube is the best game in town but i' strongly urge people look at X look at even Tik Tok like you have to go where the puck is going you know so to speak yeah absolutely um
[39:09] listen Ash I think uh I think that pretty much does it this was a great uh very interesting story um let's preview next week's episode where we talk about how watch modri decided to go big or go home yeah so I mean the next year in
[39:22] 2014 we're actually the seventh largest channel in the in the in the world on YouTube which is not bad I'll take it um but that was also in some ways when then the delu started right so we faced increased competition and clutter we
[39:37] Montreal expose to wanting to be the New York Yankee so we recruited exacts and we launched like a gazillion you know products and projects and we tripled headcount at one point we're 75 and as I said great but very chaotic time so
[39:51] we'll talk about that you know basically uh everything is relative but like you get to the top sort of speak how do you stay on top uh definitely not obvious or stay on top uh definitely not obvious or easy and we I think net net successfully
[40:04] of mistakes and I look forward to an interesting one all right well thank you as always it was a pleasure and I'll see everybody next week take care guys cheers