[00:05] from someone who wants to keep it from you? could be the truth about a crime or the password to a bank account
[00:18] To get information, we often resort to violence, and can cause a person to close off even more.
[00:31] or even of getting their brains In this episode, I'm going to be injected I'm going to coerce people into giving false confessions,
[00:46] from a mind-reading machine. or detect a lie? I've got locked up in my head.
[01:02] [theme music playing]
[01:15] [siren wailing] [indistinct radio chatter] Someone captures someone they want information from,
[01:32] and the person spills The serum used in almost all of these movies that inhibits brain activity.
[01:44] but was found to work better as an anti-anxiety drug. making it harder to perform cognitive tasks, including the task of making up a lie.
[01:59] began in 1915 realized that scopolamine, had the effect of getting them to talk
[02:13] has been used to treat Iraq War burn victims Midazolam helps reduce their inhibitions, about their experiences.
[02:28] in lethal injections, I arranged to be injected with midazolam [music playing]
[02:44] [Dr. Malek] This is the midazolam, This is enough to put an elephant to sleep. and then give you very, very small amount
[02:58] You will be comfortable and happy. But I also wanna keep some secrets. it remains to be determined.
[03:12] - Hi. - [Michael] Nice to meet you. - Good. - [Michael] Dr. Pavlo is a police psychologist [Dr. Malek] Uh, we would like to start
[03:26] [Michael] Dr. Pavlo's objective was to get me to admit one, that my sister's name is Melissa Mind Field and Vsauce.
[03:39] Are you feeling more relaxed in your body? It's amazing how quickly this came into effect. - I love to. - [Dr. Pavlo] Okay.
[03:53] - What town? What city? - Uh, Pasadena. - Thirty-one. - Do you have any siblings? [chuckles]
[04:05] That-- That's not her name. I am a choreographer by trade. [Michael] Have you heard of, um, The Lion King?
[04:20] I think he needs an extra dose. - That means I got them right. - [Dr. Pavlo] You are too sharp. [Dr. Malek] Two milligrams.
[04:34] I feel like in order to feel like this, six drinks. - Mine field? - [Dr. Pavlo] Yeah.
[04:48] Mine field? There are places that we've got mines still littered throughout the, um, the land,
[05:01] YouTube show Mind Field  that you host. I am somewhat familiar with it. Okay. We're just gonna get you even more relaxed.
[05:20] I'm a choreographer. I have a sibling in, uh, Colorado. [Michael] Uh, rotisserie,
[05:32] Does your sister Melissa like that, too? Trying to get Michael to admit Luckily, he was anesthetized enough
[05:46] You ever think about being an uncle or a father yourself? My-- my wife and I are trying, but I'm always doing stuff like this, you know.
[06:00] do you wanna make a little, uh, baby?" I got to go [sighs] and pumped full of midazolam.
[06:14] Yeah, because I-- He's not sedated enough. [Dr. Malek] This would probably the last dose I wanna give him. at this dose fall asleep?
[06:27] [yawns] Good. Yeah, heavy.
[06:42] President P-- President Trump. Yo, Pasadena. Mind Field or Vsauce?
[06:56] [yawns] Vsauce. Because they can be whatever I want them to be, By the way, my eyes were closed, weren't they?
[07:12] that you were still a real person asking me questions. there's no way he would have admitted anything.
[07:24] No, it's the drugs, he got right back on track. and really believes in what he's doing
[07:38] Okay. You're done. Uh, - [laughs] - Just kidding.
[07:50] and my ability to lie consistently, about one's right against self-incrimination. to reconstruct and fabricate memories.
[08:06] So, truth serums are not very reliable, [music playing] Michael, let me take a shot at this.
[08:21] Look, we're all friends here. You're being too easy on this, scum. Your fingerprints are all over the crime scene.
[08:33] Michael, if you get him too scared, That's right. and then we'll do that over and over and over again.
[08:47] that will deplete the finite cognitive resources All right. I confess. You see, at one moment, I'm terrified
[09:00] fogs my critical thinking until I might confess to a crime It's called the fear-then-relief response.
[09:14] [siren wailing] evolved out of a psychological manipulation procedure developed in the 1950s
[09:29] since the 1970s. interrogators first assess If they think the suspect is lying,
[09:42] in which they seek a confession. that the first phase isn't reliable enough, makes it to the second stage
[09:56] and police begin seeking a confession. But why would anyone falsely confess? how to make someone confess
[10:10] [music playing] in investigative research, including the process
[10:23] and why people make them. that they didn't commit because they come to believe Right, because confessing
[10:38] Like that's what you need to avoid at all costs. of being convinced that it's actually your best option. to get a false confession from someone.
[10:55] [Dr. Russano] One way is minimization techniques. that their best option out of this situation You can say, "Look, I really think
[11:07] - like maximization, right? - [Michael] Okay. um, that the punishment will likely be more severe, is to confess to you. One other technique
[11:23] into a false sense of security to trust you. to, um, make explicit offers of leniency or a deal.
[11:37] but you can say, "Look, I really think for the message to be communicated. I was ready to try to get a false confession.
[11:53] our online ad offering participants $75 They didn't realize that the institution was fake
[12:05] were actually actors working for us. [Michael] Before the test, the participants were required under breach of contract if they cheated on the test.
[12:18] it's very important that you work alone. Good luck. See you soon. hidden cameras around and that we were watching
[12:33] During the testing, the participants and our actors At no time did cheating take place. and I'll be right back to start the next phase, okay, guys?
[12:47] [Michael] I wore an earpiece so that Melissa could guide me A few minutes later, it was time So, we actually might have a problem.
[13:00] So, James, could you come with me just outside? Thank you. And, um, Nicole, - Awesome. Thank you. - Mm-hmm.
[13:16] And calling the director. You and James both had
[13:28] It looks to me like there was information sharing. - on that problem? - I didn't-- I didn't do it. I kept my eyes on my paper because I knew
[13:41] If I just write out here, like, "I admit that I shared answers." - like, while we're doing the individual... - Okay.
[13:56] I really think it's in your best interest. to sign this stating that you admit I honestly believe that that is...
[14:11] what's going on here. I really-- that's-- I don't know. - Megan... - Please let me finish, [Michael] I think I may have come on too aggressively.
[14:25] of not confessing. If he comes down here, If the director has to come down here,
[14:40] - It did not happen. - [Michael] Okay. [Michael] Some people were just too strong-willed. I also understand
[14:55] or helping someone with a problem But I didn't share any information, [Michael] But this guy didn't want to be my friend.
[15:08] But after these failed attempts, into the next encounter. with making sure that you're not overly confrontational.
[15:23] sees you as someone who she can trust your advice, Okay. I'm going in.
[15:35] - No problem. - So... I was looking through your individual questionnaires. the same wrong answer
[15:50] this weird, like, okay, what's going on? these very unique answers? So, I called the project director
[16:05] this is a sign that information were shared We didn't look at each other's stuff. Like, we didn't ask each other anything,
[16:21] So I don't know how we got the same answer. like, the answer that I came up with. so I changed tactics and told her what the consequences
[16:37] And that's a really big deal because through this grant, and it could even be a breach of the contract - Okay. - [Michael] Deja now knows
[16:51] that I have her best interest at heart. And I could either tell him I don't know what's going on, I don't know who he's going to involve.
[17:06] All I know is that I can't explain what happened. um, information was shared. um, you know,
[17:20] "I admit that I shared, - But we didn't. - [Michael] "...to the triangle..."
[17:32] that we didn't share answers, though? or if he said that he looked at my answer [Michael]  Deja wasn't quite convinced.
[17:45] the impact of confessing. I just know that we've got to figure out how it happened.
[17:57] - If you just tell us that that happened... - Say that? and say that you guys are cooperating - [Michael] That's the best thing. - Okay.
[18:10] Okay. If you sign and date it, Okay. but...
[18:24] Okay. I will be-- I'll be right back. No problem.
[18:41] that it was in her best interest, But it feels so bad. She knows that it's a lie.
[18:56] I did not cheat. Those were all my answers. Okay. Uh, this concludes the study.
[19:11] uh, to tell you about what we're studying. Okay. - [Deja] Okay. - This is not a study of logic problems,
[19:24] and false confessions. You falsely confessed today. How do you feel?
[19:37] because I'm usually the one who, like, sticks to what, So, what happened today?
[19:49] because it's an environment I've never been in before It was just like, and say that I did it."
[20:03] and knowing she was admitting to breaching a contract, could be used as evidence in a trial against her. - and this was a real crime... - Mm-hmm.
[20:20] to something without even punching them it's in their best interest. - [Michael] Isn't it? - That's really crazy.
[20:33] for crimes they didn't do. [music playing]
[20:49] to uncovering miscarriages of justice, are currently falsely imprisoned in the U.S. and the number two cause,
[21:02] Interrogation techniques are unreliable. from suspects who are good at lying, innocent suspects to confess crimes
[21:16] But neuroscientists may have discovered a method to good liars and bad interrogators. at Northwestern University,
[21:31] have developed a high-tech method a P300-based concealed information test. than a polygraph or traditional
[21:46] Well, we're looking at, in response to information that's presented. like the murder weapon that a guilty person used,
[22:02] And so, the machine that we brought with us So the way my brain, your brain, that are meaningful that we recognize is different
[22:17] - Right. - Has this been used in a court? Not in court, There are some Fifth Amendment issues
[22:29] based on your brain waves. that are already using polygraph methods. I'm gonna step out, you guys are gonna prepare the first test.
[22:44] See you soon. Thank you for joining me. So, one of us today is going to be a thief.
[22:58] we randomly determined who would be the thief Three, two, one. [Michael] So, Hannah, go on in.
[23:12] [Michael]  In this real-world scenario the designated thief actually takes the item, This activity causes the item
[23:25] so they can't help but recognize it later. to enter the room and sign in to prove they were there. And, of course, Dr. Rosenfeld and Anne have no idea
[23:40] Then each of us is tested. Basically, I'm just gonna put a couple electrodes and then, um, the EEG cap on your head.
[23:54] these two mice in front of you... So you'll see an image, a string of numbers, Anytime you see an image, no matter what it is,
[24:07] All right. Are you ready? contained a variety of jewelry items, Of course, Wren and I hadn't seen any of them before.
[24:21] [music playing] But would her brain waves reveal the one item she recognizes?
[24:34] It was time for the results. Well, based on what we know, And so we looked at the brain waves
[24:48] in response to other things. uh, or event-related potentials in each frame.
[25:00] brain wave response to the watch. The red trace there is the response We look for the peak-to-peak difference,
[25:14] following this peak. that the biggest response we found was, uh, Hannah's.
[25:28] is that you had a special response That would suggest that there's something special
[25:40] that is meaningful to you. Is it? I have about 40 or 50 of them. I don't have that many watches.
[25:54] So off to jail. [Michael] The P300 concealed information test But in this next test, I will be the only suspect,
[26:08] But the question will be, what did I steal? and inside those boxes are seven different items at random and steal that item.
[26:23] a camouflage hat. I will be implementing countermeasures I will think a very strong thought
[26:36] Will that enable me to create brain waves to not be distinguishable from my response - Anne. - [Anne] Hello. Welcome back.
[26:52] [Michael] Wish me luck, because this time, where getting caught in a lie can have consequences.
[27:04] on my punishment. an EEG lie detection test. - there need to be stakes. - Yeah.
[27:17] Naturally, I thought of Chinese water torture, is when someone is restrained And then right after that, I thought, I know just the guy
[27:29] Because I-- I want it to be So, yeah, we did an episode and the creepiest thing that happened
[27:44] was that I got an email from someone He said, "We found that randomizing That anything that happens on a regular periodicity
[28:00] and you can then tune it out. you're-- he said, within 20 hours."
[28:13] - All right. - Thanks. of Chinese water torture, [music playing]
[28:28] That is it. I was trying to tense up to make sure Well, for most tests, that would work.
[28:41] - [Michael] Yes, we will. - ...what it shows. Wow. Okay. what item I stole.
[28:53] I really kept my mind active. all kinds of really crazy things. How would that feel? How do I hold it back?
[29:08] in nature as well. I thought a lot about death I would probably blame witchcraft as well as science. [Dr. Rosenfeld] We're ready to give him our best guess.
[29:25] - [Michael] Are you guys ready? - Yup. how confident do you feel? What did I take?
[29:38] [music playing] Did you see any evidence of countermeasures being used?
[29:52] Even while I was doing the test, I'm reacting too quickly to the actual item. I should treat them all the same.
[30:07] reacting to all of the irrelevance that you formed in your mind, But the biggest will still be produced by the camo hat,
[30:22] That means I now have to be punished. Science is improving in its ability
[30:34] And that raises some difficult ethical dilemmas. We would have nothing to fear from perfect lie detectors if the people using them had perfect morals.
[30:46] of extracting information, while exciting, As we continue to probe interrogation methods to probe them ethically.
[31:01] You know, Chinese water torture isn't even Chinese. in the 15th century. to make it sound more mysterious.
[31:14] are supposed to drive you slowly insane. about getting information and more about punishment. thanks for watching.
[31:32] [theme music playing]