---
title: 'How To Increase Creativity and Avoid YouTube Burnout w/Dr. Peter Attia'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=DknBHh25mxA'
video_id: 'DknBHh25mxA'
date: 2026-06-15
duration_sec: 0
---

# How To Increase Creativity and Avoid YouTube Burnout w/Dr. Peter Attia

> Source: [How To Increase Creativity and Avoid YouTube Burnout w/Dr. Peter Attia](https://youtube.com/watch?v=DknBHh25mxA)

## Summary

Dr. Peter Attia discusses the science of burnout, creativity, and peak performance for content creators. He explains how dopamine, negativity bias, and stress impact creators' mental and physical health, offering strategies to sustain a long, enjoyable career.

### Key Points

- **Burnout Defined** [00:04] — Burnout is hard to define but recognizable; it involves losing the joy and purpose in your work, often due to transactional, high-pressure environments.
- **Signs of Burnout** [06:00] — Key signs include lack of desire to do the work, joy disappearing, and distraction spilling into personal life.
- **Creative Output Without Direction** [08:00] — Casey Neistat's definition: burnout is creative output without direction, often fueled by platform algorithms rewarding constant uploads.
- **Dopamine Homeostasis** [10:00] — The body seeks equilibrium; dopamine highs from social media or gambling lead to crashes, while natural sources like exercise provide gentle, sustained elevation.
- **Negativity Bias** [15:00] — Evolution wired us to focus on negative feedback to avoid tribal expulsion; this makes creators hyper-sensitive to criticism despite positive comments.
- **Purpose and Evolution** [20:00] — Evolution didn't select for happiness or purpose; maintaining them requires conscious effort, unlike survival instincts like eating or sleeping.
- **Starting Small with Habits** [22:00] — To build habits, start with small, achievable goals (e.g., 15-minute walks) and gradually increase; additive habits are easier than subtractive ones.
- **Work Expands to Fill Time** [24:00] — Parkinson's principle: work expands to fill available time; schedule non-negotiables (exercise, family) first to prevent work from consuming everything.
- **Lifespan vs. Healthspan** [34:00] — Lifespan is how long you live; healthspan is quality of life (physical, cognitive, emotional). Healthspan is more malleable and can be improved.
- **Trading Health for Wealth** [40:00] — Many trade health for wealth early in their careers, but health cannot be bought back later; it's important to question unsustainable patterns.
- **Sleep Deprivation Equals Drunk** [43:00] — Chronic six hours of sleep per night is equivalent to being legally drunk, impairing cognitive performance significantly.
- **Deliberate Living** [48:00] — Creators are deliberate about their work but often neglect health; being intentional about sleep, nutrition, and exercise is equally important.
- **Creativity Requires Stillness** [55:00] — Creativity cannot be forced on demand; it requires creating space for boredom and stillness, such as rucking or sitting in a sauna without stimulation.
- **Task Switching as a Warning Sign** [60:00] — Excessive task switching indicates you're past your optimal stress level; the solution is to stop and sit in silence, not push through.
- **Stress-Performance Curve** [70:00] — Performance follows an inverted U-shaped curve with stress; optimal stress varies per person and is influenced by sleep, exercise, and relationships.
- **Reconciliation in Teams** [75:00] — Disagreements aren't damaging; lack of reconciliation is. Teams that fight and make up quickly are stronger.
- **Living to 100** [80:00] — To reach 100, you need good genes, perfect management of biomarkers, exercise, sleep, nutrition, and aggressive cancer screening—but it's rare.

### Conclusion

Creators must treat their health as a performance investment, not an afterthought. By understanding evolutionary biases, managing dopamine, and prioritizing sleep, exercise, and stillness, they can sustain creativity and avoid burnout.

## Transcript

you would never shoot a video and just
load it without editing it but that's
what many people are doing in their
lives is there a scientific way to spark
creativity on command nothing sit there
and suffer what exactly is YouTuber
burnout how do you know when you're
burnt out the more public you are the
more of a personality you are the more
you are completely working against
anything Evolution ever anticipated for
you today on the Colin its Mir show we
talked to Dr Peter AA about one of the
biggest challenges facing YouTube
creators burnout this is something that
Samir and I and a lot of our friends
have dealt with many times in our career
we're no stranger to burnout my friend
that's what I'm saying we've we've we've
had some really tough times and I think
uh you know there's been times where we
compare being a Creator to being an
athlete but we don't treat ourselves
like athletes we don't think about our
physical and mental well-being in the
context of Peak Performance but that's
what this conversation is all about we
got to sit with Peter back in the
beginning of the year at spotter Summit
where we got to host a fireside chat
with him in front of a ton of top
creators and it was one of the most
engaged sessions because you realize
every Creator is trying to operate at
their Peak Performance and Peter is not
like other doctors he has a different
perspective he's a cool doctor he's a
cool docor he actually is really cool
he's a cool guy yeah he is not only an
expert in wellness and Longevity but he
is a Creator himself right so he has an
understanding of what it is like to
press publish to put out multiple
episodes and how to deal with the career
not only that he's studied this for a
long time he's like one of the leading
experts in longevity he wrote a book
called outlive which is a New York Times
bestseller and one that you gifted me
thank you um you're welcome but he's a
guy who has really studied longevity and
how not only do we live a long life but
how do we live an enjoyable life
and that that's something that I just
really love about him the first time I
ever had the chance to speak with Peter
AA I left feeling like my life had
completely changed yeah I will always
look back on and remember and I'm
excited for all of you to have a similar
type of experience in this episode we
sourced questions from three different
creators for Peter and also at the end
of this episode Colin and I come back
and do a debrief so after Peter leaves
the chair we sit down and give you our
takeaways from the episode so stay tuned
for
[Music]
that petera welcome to the show thank
you for having me sir should I have said
Dr petera no just petera okay great um
although have you seen uh you guys are
probably not old enough to remember meet
the Meet the Parents no of course you of
course you are yeah come on how old do
you think we are I mean come on didn't
that movie come out in like 2000 we're
maybe older than we look yeah yeah so
remember the scene in it with the the Dr
Bob yes he's like please call me Bob MD
so anytime I'm with my wife and someone
calls me like Dr I'm like please call me
Peter she goes
MD so
embarrassing um well man we we
absolutely loved the conversation we got
to have with you in January in Montana
and I I think i' I don't think I've ever
seen a room of creators that engaged
like that that was a pretty I think we
all could have sat in there for another
two hours with you just raising our
hands and asking questions so and
multiple creators took notes there were
Google docs on top of Google doc that
got sent out after that talk yeah so
that I think uh after that experience I
think we we took a step back and we were
like we should really have that
conversation on the show because scaling
that and and spreading that like I think
the connection
of Health creativity and also just work
our relationship with work as creative
people um it's just not something that
we're discussing that much um so I
wanted to start with just even asking
you the question of uh this term burnout
you know we used it a lot a lot of
creators use it is there like a is that
a conversation that's happening from a
medical perspective or like how do you
define what is
burnout you know I don't know that I
have a great definition for it but it is
definitely it's one of those things that
uh you know I don't know if it was the
Supreme Court that said this but you I'm
sure you've heard it it's apocryphal
about you know it's it's hard to Define
pornography but you know it when you see
it I think the same is true for for for
Burnout um so so apologies to the
sociologists or behavioral psychologists
who who probably actually have a
technical definition for it um but it is
a topic in medicine especially in
primary care but frankly all over
medicine uh physician burnout is you
know it's just it's just a mammoth
problem you know many Physicians have to
operate in a paradigm where they they
have to see a certain number of patients
a day their their visits and
interactions with the patients are very
transactional and you've got you know
somewhere between 10 and 15 minutes per
patient and you're going to run through
10 hours of this every single day and so
what you don't have time for in that
situation is you don't have time to talk
to the person you don't have time to
strike up a rapport so that clearly
leads to this phenomenon of burn out
you're kind of losing the reason you did
this thing because there's nobody who
said I want to go into medicine because
I want to push as many charts as as
humanly possible in a day and come up
with as many diagnostic codes to make
sure that we get reimbursed etc etc
that's not that's not really why people
go into it
I I think the difference between like
doctors and creators when it comes to
burnout is that a doctor is very much on
the clock right like there is it's very
long hours but there's an extended
period of time where it's like it will
end at some point YouTube creators and
content creators we like make our own
hours right so we will go and go and go
and go and that often leads us and has
led us to burnout what are I I wish I
knew this in my early 20s but what are
some of the like sure fire signs that
you are burnt out and should take a step
back and sort of reassess you know again
I think there are there's probably a
real clinical answer to this but I would
say some some things that likely sit on
that list would be just a a a lack of
desire to do the thing right like if the
Joy from the from the thing you're
supposed to be doing is gone um that's
that's probably a sign that you're
burning out um so I know for me when I'm
sort of feeling that way um like for
example like I I sort of do you know I
have like five different jobs um but
like one of those jobs is the podcast
right is content creation if I'm not
enjoying preparing for a podcast if I'm
feeling like I'm not prepared and you
know all of a sudden I've lost the plot
of why do I even want to talk to this
person tomorrow like you know this is
something that's been arranged for
months and now I've lost why I'm doing
it because I feel lost in my preparation
it's usually a sign that I'm going too
fast if the joy is gone then I'm I'm
probably on that path to burn out I
would just say if it's sort of creeping
into other areas of your life you know
if you know you guys are married I don't
know if you guys have you guys have kids
not yet not yet yeah so I think if
you're distracted around your at least
for me if I'm distracted around my kids
if I'm not able to kind of if I set
aside time to do something with my kids
if I'm sort of being pulled into
something else um that's that's just
generally a bad sign for me or at least
a warning sign that's you know it makes
me say hey what what's going on and why
is this happening there there's a uh
definition of the the term that was that
we heard from Casey nead who's like
obviously like a storied Creator um he
said it's burnout is creative output
without Direction and I actually think
it's it's interesting that you mentioned
that of like if you lose the
initial impetus for why you did the
thing and I I I remember hearing that
and recognizing that there was a lot of
time in our career over the past 13
years where we were just trying to work
through the stress or work through the
ch
and we didn't have an end point of where
we were going and I think that actually
today the the platforms are can be
designed for that where it's just about
the next as long as you can get to the
next upload and they keep you on the on
the uh on the treadmill really well
right because you're rewarded for that
dopamine hit when you do press publish
when something does work um you want to
feel it again and if you don't feel it
then you're chasing that next time that
you do feel it your kind of time window
shortens to your next upload and I think
the broader macro Direction can get lost
really easily how much have you studied
or or you know with you even as a
content creator yourself studied the the
impacts
of these kind of dopamine hits that
we're
receiving through the internet um I
think about it a lot actually um I I
recently uh interviewed a woman named
Anna l
in fact she wrote she's a Stanford
psychiatrist wrote the book called
dopamine Nation so you know really wrote
a great book that gets into the science
of how how dopamine works and how
certain types of external stimuli can
kind of hijack us right so this can be a
really positive thing or it can be kind
of a negative thing so it really depends
on the nature of um how how the dopamine
system is is sort of hijacked so let's
start with kind of a positive example um
so first thing is understanding that in
every system the body really wants to be
in equilibrium so so one of the things
that is kind of amazing about biology
and in human biology is realizing how
many systems are in place to keep us in
this point of equilibrium so take for
example temperature the body has to be
at 98 and A5 degrees Fahrenheit that's
really the optimal place for every
enzyme in the body to work plus or
minus5° so basically 98 to 99° F
obviously you'll get outside of that if
you have a
fever you're going to be 101 102 that is
not optimal but your body's making that
tradeoff to get rid of and kill a
virus but what happens if you get to 104
105 you're dead similarly what if you
get down to 94 93 well if you're there
for too long you're dead so again body
has incredible systems to keep you in
that range regardless of the external
temperature H okay let's think about
something like pH so again not to get
two sciency on it but pH is a marker of
acid balance our bodies exist at a pH of
7.4 if you get much above about 7.8
you're dead if you get below 7.1 7.0
you're dead so regardless of what is
going on in your body your kidneys and
your lungs will work like crazy to
buffer the acid in your body I could go
on and on and on but basically every
system in the body works this way
whether it's the regulation of glucose
sodium hemoglobin you name it we're
these incredible equilibrium machines I
think it's one of the most amazing
things about the human body is its
capacity for buffering anything okay so
now let's talk about how dopamine
factors into that so our body wants to
sort of preserve a certain level of
homeostasis within um kind of the way
our brain works so when you do something
that is actually quite uncomfortable
that causes pain um your body will
actually start to produce more dopamine
to offset that so an example of that
would be exercise so why do people most
of the time feel actually quite good
after Hard Exercise well it's actually
because when you exercise really really
hard and you're hurting yourself and I
don't mean like in kind of a dangerous
way but like you we were talking earlier
when you came in you were doing dead
hangs you were doing Farmers carries
clearly that hurt yeah yeah so your body
started to actually make so the pain is
coming on your body actually has to
start making dopamine to offset that
pain when you stop doing that thing when
you are done with your dead hangs and
farmer carries you still have some of
that dopamine lingering around you feel
pretty good yeah but it's not obscene
amounts such that there's a crash after
it's just a slight elevation that kind
of gently comes down the same is true
actually for cold plunging um and this
is not true for everybody there are some
people who just get pain with no
pleasure but most people actually get
kind of quite a bit of pleasure after
the fact certainly for me that's the
caseit I get an incredible High that's
not like out of this world but it's just
it's almost like a beautiful Buzz of
pleasure for a couple of hours after a a
you know 10 minutes at 40° or something
super
frigid of course there's the negative
side to this so what is it about
gambling social media alcohol all of
those things well those things actually
produce the dopamine high but they do it
at such a high level that your body now
does the opposite it says I need to
actually lower this I need to offset
what's going on in the other direction
and so now when that stimulus goes away
you're actually in a depressed
state so I I think being aware of this
kind of helps you understand at least
for me I work well when I have an
understanding of the system so by
understanding that I just limit the
amount of time that I'm doing things
that are producing intense
stimulation um I try to get my dopamine
I hate to use this word but I try to get
it more naturally right that's why I
like using cold plunge I like using
exercise I I don't like to use social
reinforcement I don't like to use social
media which is not to say I don't have
social media I just don't like to look
at it very much as as a validation right
I like to look at it for entertainment
so I'm not you know I have Instagram on
my phone I'm always scrolling looking
for funny videos and baseball videos and
like the things that I like but I spend
virtually no time looking at the
response to my content because I know
that that's going to create that honic
cycle where I'm going to need it and I'm
going to be disappointed when it's not
there and even if it is there it's just
going to fuel the next
high that's not an easy thing to do no
that's incredibly challenging especially
when it's connected to your other
currency evaluation which is money yeah
it's also like just not good for
business like I wouldn't recommend a lot
of professional creators to just not
look at their analy no I think what you
can do is you can have others you so
first of all you can look at the
analytics NE without necessarily just
getting mired in the details of every
comment right the other thing is you
know you can have others who are less
emotionally attached to it kind of help
with some of that stuff so yeah by all
means we should understand how content
is performing and what's doing well and
what's not um but in particular I think
kind of you know getting getting um
attaching your validation to to to
whatever it is the number of comments
the number of views I I think is
slippery slope and and and honestly like
I don't know if you're going to win I
think you have to ask the question like
even if it's going really well if you're
attaching your validation to
that you're never really going to be
satiated there there may not be a
scientific answer to this but I'm
curious I was speaking with uh a Creator
yesterday and she's a comedian and we
were talking about how you end up seeing
comments by accident yeah a lot of times
you're not looking for a comment but you
see a negative comment yeah and it can
about your appearance it can be about
your performance and even if there are
2,000 positive comments you see that one
and it impacts you so much and for some
reason the 2,000 positive comments are
not able to balance out the negative one
for sure why is that like why am I not
able to sort of separate in a healthy
way the one negative from the 2000
positive yeah so whoever told you that
is absolutely correct and he or she is
not alone um it's called negativity bias
and there is actually a scientific
reason for it at least we we believe
there is and ution would have favored
this so think about how we evolved right
we evolved in tribes and these tribes
were pretty small right so probably we
we banded together in groups of I don't
know 20 to 100 people and that was about
it so now think about think about how
natural selection would have selected
for people who were attuned to the
negative response of others that's a
really important feature to have so
imagine we go back back in time it's
200,000 years ago we're just chilling in
our tribe and I'm a complete
prick it would be so important that I
quickly figure out you guys know that
and don't like me and I have to course
correct my behavior CU if you guys kick
me out of the tribe right I just died
humans cannot survive in isolation for
more than a couple of days so there's
this incredible pressure to be very
attuned to when people don't like me the
converse is not true it's actually not
that important that I know you like me
from an evolutionary perspective now we
could argue for all the reasons today it
would be wonderful if I knew that you
loved me and it would be so validating
to me and it would but evolution doesn't
care about that Evolution cares about
survival and procreation and that's it
and that's what's hardwired into our
genome so that that's the reason for
this phenomenon we are absolutely
hardwired towards a negativity bias so
it's explains phenomenon explains why we
like negative news more than positive
news um it's a great example of how
something that
was absolutely essential for our
survival as a species has become so
maladaptive in the current environment
that negativity bias is a really
interesting one in the context of
survivalism I really yeah just think
about like what it would have been like
yeah in a tribe if you couldn't perceive
others negative feelings towards you I I
wonder also if like our tribes now were
were like from an evolution perspective
we were never meant to have such big uh
tribes we were not absolutely tribes of
millions of people which is what you
have on YouTube which is what you have
on social media right the more public
you are the more of a personality you
are the more you are completely working
against anything Evolution ever
anticipated for you now it's not to say
if our species doesn't survive another
100,000 years that we won't figure out a
way to evolve into that so then why why
in the context of like burnout and um
you know enjoyment of the thing is
something that we're talking about yeah
purpose is a thing that can keep you
healthy why is that is there any studies
around like why purpose and uh
connection to your why or like enjoyment
of that thing
does like it's kind of interesting to me
that that would play into a fact of like
Evolution or even like human
biology so again I I think you know
Arthur do you guys know who Arthur
Brooks is yeah Arthur Arthur's a great
friend and and someone I spend a lot of
time thinking about this subject with um
so Arthur would argue that Evolution
didn't actually care about your
happiness um so happiness is um is like
many things that we care about today
that we just can't look to Evolution for
guidance on things that are easy are
things that Evolution has selected for
right it's easy to eat it's easy to
notice negative comments it's easy to go
to sleep every night might not want to
but you know like eventually you're
going to have to sleep every night like
those are the things that are hardwired
into our genome but this other thing
about how do I maintain a sense of
purpose how do I you know preserve my
pass like that just wasn't part of the
purview of natural selection and
therefore it will for different people
require different degrees of expenditure
and effort um so again there there are
some people for whom I think these
things come easier than others and that
doesn't mean they're less important just
you know there's some people like for me
exercise comes very easily again
Evolution didn't tell us to exercise
like we didn't have to we were active
naturally so anybody in the modern era
who's going to make time to exercise is
making a conscious decision to not be
lazy technically Evolution wanted you
sort of sitting around as much as
possible conserving energy right so if
you weren't out getting food or you know
moving or doing something else you it's
not like you know natural selection made
it for your desire to carry kettle bells
around the the campfire um but some
people have an easier time doing it than
others that's fine that's a question
that I wanted to ask you specifically
because I I often feel very
discouraged uh at my lack of exercise or
lack of action as it compares to the
level of inspiration that I get in my
life so whether that's inspiration
through what I see on social media to
eat this way act this way or even
sitting with you uh at spotter Summit I
left being like my whole life just
changed I'm going to hang I'm going to
cold plunge I'm going to sauna I'm going
to eat this way I'm going to get an
eight sleep everything is going to
change and you know I was telling you
I'm three4 of the way through your book
I listen to you a lot on shows and I'm
like I have the inspiration I have the
motivation but I have a hard time
staying consistent and taking action
what advice do you have to to start
taking those steps to be uh more active
yeah no I think that's a great question
Colin I think um not overdoing it and
starting with something small that
you're going to get a win and and some
success with right so it might be that
in February when we first met you you
came away with too much ambition right
you were like oh my God I got to change
the way I sleep the way I eat the way I
exercise the way I manage this that that
well that's pretty overwhelming right
especially for someone who's really busy
right so it's not like you're working 9
to5 um so what I would do is I would
sort of you know sit down with you and
sort of go through where you are right
now on all the metrics so if we if we
were to say look in an Ideal World this
would be kind of your exercise program
this would be how long you would sleep
this would be how much time you devote
to meal planning and eating um this
would be your your mental health
practice all these other things first
question I want to know is where's the
biggest opportunity so where are you
furthest from what we might consider
ideal and then I would marry that to
what one thing are you willing to try
doing first so start with a bit of
desire and let's just assume we did that
exercise and we realized well you're
barely working out and as a former
athlete I mean you played lacrosse in
college so it's not like you're you know
it's not like exercise is foreign to you
um would you be willing to do 30 minutes
a day of exercise no other change right
let's not worry about your sleep right
now it's not that bad let's not worry
about all these other things and then it
sort of just comes down to Habit
building and I think I tal I might have
talked about this in February but um
when it comes to additive habits versus
subtractive habits so subtractive habits
are I want to quit smoking I want to
stop eating junk food etc etc additive
habits are I want to exercise I want to
go to bed earlier those kinds of things
um so on an additive habit I think the
key is building success small and
consistent and so if a person's not
exercising at all I would say could we
do 15 minutes of something a day where
by the way at the beginning it might not
even be going to the gym it might be
going for a walk but if can I pull you
away from whatever it is that's keeping
you from exercise so if it's TV social
media work even family time like
whatever it is that is preventing you
from exercise let's just create a
circuit break that says go outside and
walk for 15 minutes yeah and after like
a week of that you're like huh that's
like seven straight days where I've
walked for 15 minutes okay great could
we make it 20 the next week 30 the next
week well at some point it's actually
going to become something that you've
just accepted like I work around this
because remember work expands to fill
available time never forget that work
expands to fill available time so don't
ever act like I just need more time to
go and do this thing no you got to do
this thing and then the work has to fit
around it wait say that again work
expands to available time work expands
to fill available time fill available
time yeah wow that's really interesting
yeah it's either that's either Peter's
principal or Parkinson's principle I
can't remember it's one of those two uh
but it's it's a well-known principle
right which is um if you give a person a
task and give them six hours or give a
person a task and give them four hours
it's always going to take six hours or
four hours there's no scenario by which
work somehow gets compressed it will
always it's like a gas it always fills
the room it's in so that feels like the
opposite of working out for me like if I
have available time it's not filled with
that's my point so you have to take you
have to put the workout in it because
it's just going to compress the amount
of time you're working anyway so that
that note actually hits me in a really
interesting way
of it's very hard for me to fill
available time with anything else like I
I am very committed to exercise that's
something I've been committed to since I
was I was I was young so that's like a
non-negotiable for me but in any other
time I'm basically constantly fill it
with work MH and the thing that I
struggle with with our work and being an
entrepreneur is that there's an
unlimited amount of work there there's
always an opportunity I think it was one
of our friends um erak who was who was
there in January as well but he said um
we're only capped by our willingness to
work as entrepreneurs and YouTube
creators right like as as YouTube
creators this ever expanding environment
of the internet where it's like we
always could be doing
something to progress our careers that's
the thing I struggle with the most of
like how do I set those boundaries
around that thing because I'm just I
just am the guy who wants to if I have a
moment I'm gonna open up my laptop and
go what can I progress right now yeah
and and look I don't want to be the pot
calling the kettle black because I'm an
entrepreneur as well I'm like I said I
kind of have like four or five different
businesses I'm running yeah so there's
never a minute when one of them is not
in desperate need of my attention um but
because I am completely and intimately
aware of this principle that work
expands to fill available time I just I
know that that's exactly what's going to
happen if I'm not deliberate so then
what I have to say is what are my other
priorities what are the things that I
can't let slip and for me that list is
different than what it might be for you
or what it might be for you and that's
okay
but I know what my list is right so for
me exercise can't slip time with my kids
can't slip time with my wife can't
slip um does it Flex at some points it
does like the past week has been brutal
the next two weeks are going to be
brutal um it means I'm not going to you
know I actually didn't have date night
with my wife this week which is unusual
we always have one night to go
out um you know I only got to see one of
my kids games or practices I'd like to
see two you know like there are certain
things that they got squeezed but I have
a pretty clear sense during the week of
what has to get done and those things
are immovable because if they're not if
I try to put them in after the fact
they're not going to
happen yeah so what is it so if I put
those immovable objects in place then
it's not the end of the world if a
little extra work Creeps in right
because I've already taken care of my
foundational stuff so your found
foundational stuff is going to change
like you guys don't have kids yet when
you have kids you will have more
foundational things that are going to
matter to you um someone listening to us
might be single that's great so they
have fewer foundational things they
don't have a relationship they need to
tend to um you know maybe at some point
your parents are so old that you
actually need to put time into taking
care of your parents which is probably
something the three of us don't have to
do any of today so you see what I mean
like you have to be somewhat malleable
in this but the frame work is understand
what the non-negotiables are and account
for those first now then there's also
strategies for how to do that I never
exercise late in the day do you know why
it's way too easy for me to kick it down
the road if I if I if I say I'm going to
do my workout from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m.
there's always an overflow of a call
that didn't quite get done there's
always a chance that my kid is going to
want to go and hit baseballs and
honestly I'm going to be really
struggling between do I want you know of
course I want to go hit baseballs with
but I got to work out okay what am I
going to do but by throwing that for me
throwing those workouts in the morning
there's always a time when it's set to
get done and you know shy of a
ridiculous crisis it's going to get done
and by ridiculous crisis I mean
something that's only going to happen
like once every six months like it's not
this isn't like oh it's on the weekly
I'm going to miss that sure um
so you know having a standing date night
with your wife where it's just it's on
the calendar and it's like you're not
you're not you know you're not going to
break that reservation
hours ah of time because you want to
keep it's there it's already there it's
planned I think that's actually
extremely important is like the standing
Frameworks I've noticed that with
friendships that as you get older and as
you're being an entrepreneur it's really
easy to let friendships and social kind
of get pushed to the side but if you
create Frameworks where it's like every
Wednesday morning we meet and do this
workout class together and have
breakfast after which I which I have
with with two of my friends um you got
to drag this friend with you yeah that's
true good luck uh but it's even if we
cancel it you have to take an action to
cancel it rather than having it be
standing right and you know the other
thing I've been thinking about is we've
been doing this career for 13 years
together I think about the factors that
we've been collaborating with in each of
the chapters of our career like in our
early 20s the biggest Factor was kind of
this drive for
validation uh from others from ourselves
this like we wanted to make something
out of ourselves and that's a
collaborative factor in the early stages
of this career of being YouTubers as you
get older like now we're collaborating
with the fact that we have wives and we
want to spend time with our wives we're
collaborating with um all these other
factors and that'll change continue to
change over time and that's the thing I
have been thinking about quite a bit of
you know obviously you study longevity
and I thought about that coming into
this conversation around like I want to
do this career for a long time but I'm
have to be very aware of the different
factors that we are collaborating with
if I want to do this for the next couple
decades so I I was I wanted to get into
that subject matter of longevity how you
define that and then dive into some of
the the factors of it and I assume you
mean not physical longevity but career
longevity I guess I I tie those two
together I think like and you tell me if
you do or don't but we had a
conversation with an executive one time
who called himself a work athlete and
that was the first time I took a a step
back and I was like oh my physical and
mental health similar to an athlete are
directly correlated to my success in my
career as a
Creator and so I I guess when I heard
you talk about longevity I thought about
that being directly correlated to my
career longevity um yeah I I think about
it as you know if I get up before one of
these interviews I get up early I work
out I eat right I will have a better
interview I will also be happier when I
get home with my partner like they're so
tied together I'll work better with
Samir because I feel better about myself
yeah so I guess for me personally I take
that part for granted because it's such
a high priority regardless of what I'm
doing in other words regardless of what
my where I am in my career because I've
had a lot of careers right so I've my my
life has
been a bizarre path that has made no
sense like you know how they say like
all the dots connect in retrospect yeah
even in retrospect it's kind of hard to
draw the dots I was actually listening
to you on Rogan talk about like the
mortgage crisis yeah and I was like wait
what part of your career was that yeah
we we I can tell you the story but my
point is like independent of what I'm
doing in my career or if I if I retired
tomorrow the physical cognitive like the
health part of my longevity would always
be a high priority so I agree with you
completely that like if a person needs
any more motivation
for taking care of themselves then the
future which is I want to live as long
as I can and be as healthy as I can the
present should be motivation enough so
what you're really saying is is there a
performance benefit in the present from
being healthy and the answer is
unequivocally yes and to to the point of
the person you interviewed um we we use
the term athlete for life you need to be
an athlete for life um so life is your
sport so how do you train for life
that's that's what we think about a lot
and practice um I think the harder
problem and maybe the one I think more
about because I don't take this for
granted is will I still be doing this in
10 years and if so what needs to be true
with respect to my excitement level for
it where because I get bored so easily
um what what has to be true about what
I'm doing for me to want to be doing
this in 10 years um that's the question
I think a lot about that's a great
question a really good prompt yeah we I
mean we even uh on a more micro level
when we're talking with aspiring
creators we'll often tell them like
whatever the first version is of your
Channel or your Endeavor make sure you
really care about that Community or the
value that you're providing and the way
that you're doing it your process of
course your process can improve but if
what you're doing works if you find a
way that it works and it succeeds
whatever that process is whatever that
community that you're providing value to
if you want longevity you're going to be
doing some version of that that looks
very similar in 10 years right y it's a
very similar type of thing C can you
define uh I really liked this the first
thing I wrote down from from talking to
you was the difference between lifespan
and health span and I really liked that
distinction can you define those two
terms yeah lifespan is the easier of the
two to understand it's the it's the how
long you live so it's it's binary right
it's it's uh uh you're alive or you're
dead um like so that's kind of call it
death certificate death right
um Health span is a little harder to
Define um but it I mean there's a
medical definition to it which is sort
of not that helpful which is the the
period of time in which you are free of
disability and disease but I I think a a
better definition is is really just
around the quality of your physical life
your cognitive life your emotional life
I think those are kind of the three
pillars to it now two of those decline
inevitably with age the physical and
cognitive peace decline with age uh the
emotional peace does not it's not it
doesn't have to I mean it can but it
doesn't need to so so you have these two
pieces that are uh linked to biology and
that invariably go down and then you
have one that is not as linked to
biology uh and and at least not Linked
In A declining way and doesn't have to
go down and and honestly if you play
your cards right I think can go up so um
and that's not binary right that's
that's that's analog as opposed to
digital um and it's also very malleable
right there's a lot that we have control
over there uh with respect to that more
more so than on the lifespan side by the
way we still have a lot of control in
the lifespan side more more than people
realize so genes play a very important
role in extreme lifespan when you talk
about people who live to 90 or 100 a lot
of that is genetic um but for most of us
even if we're not bestowed with ultra
longevity genes we can still do a lot to
reduce the risk of dying you know before
the age of 80 or something like that I I
thought about that and whether or not
this is how it's meant to be thought of
because we think about our career quite
a bit I I was writing in my journal
after we we talked about okay there's
one version of this of how long can we
have this channel last like how long can
this format this content that we're
creating last and then that's like the
lifespan version of our Channel and then
Health span version is and how long will
I enjoy doing it yeah is kind of how I
thought about it or another way to think
of it is how because it's not directly
tied to but it is quite correlated to
the first point is how long will it
continue to provide incredible value to
the
listeners that's that's good yeah I
think that's like uh that's a really
important one and how you stay on that
track um without fear I think fear
Creeps in quite a bit in this career
very quickly fear of death of the
channel right like so you you start is
it fear of death of the channel or is it
fear of decline of the
product I mean and again those are
linked what's the what's which one's
actually coming first isn't isn't the
death of the channel just a consequence
of something else going wrong yeah yeah
I think it's fear of decline of the
product but I and I think a lot of that
has um a lot of it is linked to process
of creating the product and so I I think
about that quite a bit of like the
question you asked of like what has to
be true if I want to be doing this in 10
years you know one one thing that has
been true about the last the last 10
years is a lot of the job is a um
relatively sedentary job meaning like we
are sitting and working long hours on
either editing um or working on
pre-production
uh traveling like it's a very hard job
or at least we've experienced it to date
um for a lot of creators to sink into a
healthy routine because sometimes when
you're experiencing like a creative
moment that's going to take you late
into the night and impact your sleep
that's going to then you know turn into
a morning where you're not going to work
out that's going to turn into the next
day where you have to meet this deadline
and you're going to sit all day and edit
and so that that is some of the stuff
that I look at and I think as like our
fellow creators would be interested in
like how long can we do that how long
can we make some of those trades and are
should those happen in Sprints or how do
we think about that as
creatives well you know I mean I think
it's all relative and I and I and I
suppose that
um the the younger you are the more you
can get away with like I when I did my
residency in surgery that was age
208 to 33 so from ages 28 to 33 I made
you know enormous sacrifices to my
health primarily through how little I
slept and it wasn't by choice obviously
it was like I didn't have a choice you
were going to
sleep I probably
averaged 30 hours of sleep a week for
five years so it's hard to be healthy
when that's going on um wasn't eating
well you know you're sort
drinking inures at the nurses station
eating whatever crap they have at the
hospital um the one thing I made room
for was exercise because that was just
still something I was going to have to
do regardless um but but many things in
my life got compromised now you know
once I was done with that I was able to
sort of you know get get you know get
get my life back together um but could I
do that again today definitely not I I I
couldn't make that s sacrifice again if
I had to um it you know 20 years later
that's just not something I could do
so I I I do worry a little bit about the
idea that we're g to just do this for
now just do this for now just do this
for now because that's a very slippery
slope and you can blink your eyes and
wake up tomorrow and you're it's 10
years from now and you're still doing
the same thing and I meet a lot of
people who have traded their health for
wealth and when they realize it it's a
little too late to buy it back and
obviously at some point you can't right
at some point you know take an extreme
example right if you take a person in
the final decade of their life who's got
all the money in the world and all the
success and all the recognition and
every Accolade you could have it doesn't
really serve you that well when your
health is gone so I know that's not the
same as saying look someone who's in
their 20s is doing a couple of all night
Sprints to get content done so I'm not
suggesting that one shouldn't do that if
that's what's necessary but I'm
suggesting that people take a step back
and ask to what
end what what what where is this
actually going like is this really
something I can convince myself as just
something I got to do a couple times a
year or is this very quickly going to
become something I'm doing every week
and if I'm doing it every week I really
have to question some of the assumptions
here why is this happening like why do I
re am I understaffed do I not have
enough people on my team am I not good
at
planning what there there has to be a
reason that I'm staying I'm pulling two
allnighters a week to get content done
and and I and I would kind of dig into
the process of why that's happening and
what's solvable what resource can I put
after this because our most precious
resource is time not
money time is everything um money is
fungible time is not h
so if someone's listening right now and
they're you know the version of myself
in my 20s which is basically editing
very late into the night eating pretzels
and chips and not working out and you
know going out on the weekend sometimes
but really not taking anything seriously
when it comes to sleep nutrition
exercise how do you rank those three
sleep nutrition exercise if someone's
going all right now I'm going to start
to get
serious how do you look at those three
well the I mean honestly all of those
things really matter for cognitive work
and that's what you guys do right like
you guys aren't getting paid for how
strong you are how fast you can run how
high you can jump like that's not what's
paying you you're being paid for the
quality of your cognitive processes
these are creative processes uh but
they're you know they're also uh
processes of of problem solving and
other things that go beyond just
creativity but the point is the the
brain has to be sort of well fueled so
what do we know about this well we know
that sleep deprivation right if you take
a person and you sleep them six hours a
night instead of eight hours a night
chronically you know that's the
equivalent of being legally
drunk now you might say well that's okay
because I work really well when I'm
drunk but I think people would argue
they probably don't right you're
probably taking a hit to the quality of
your work um if you have a blood alcohol
above 008 again that doesn't mean like
you're hammered and you're
but it means that you are not at your
best um now the good news is when you're
25 you're still at the peak of your
what's called fluid
intelligence right so you have you're
you're peaking in fluid intelligence so
you know memory processing speed all of
those things so you might not take that
much of a hit of course when you're my
age you will because I'm long past the
peak of my fluid intelligence I'm now
climbing this second peak of crystal
ized intelligence which is more judgment
experiential
based um so for me like not sleeping is
a non-starter it just like it does it
literally doesn't matter how bad the
world is crumbling around me I am not
going to let myself have two consecutive
nights of six hours of sleep it does
happen on the occasional night you know
I've got a 4 a.m. flight or I mean a
4:00 a.m. departure for the airport for
a 6 a.m. flight and I can't get to bed
before you know 10 o'clock yep I'm gonna
only be sleeping five and a half hours
that night and it sucks looking at him
because we have a 400 am. departure to
the airport tomorrow morning yeah I had
one yesterday so so it's like I get it
um but that's not going to happen two
nights in a row no way the price I will
pay for that in terms of my quality of
work is totally unacceptable and and
let's be clear like I get paid for my
brain no one pays me for how good I look
or how bad I look no one pays me for how
much I can dead hang or how many kettle
bell swings I like nobody cares about
any of that stuff every dollar I get
paid is because of what's between my
ears there's no chance I'm compromising
that so that comes down to how much
alcohol am I going to let myself drink
how do I manage sleep how do I manage
nutrition how do I exercise I mean
exercise and sleep are probably the two
greatest nutrients for the
brain so can't I just can't sacrifice
those so so I think even if you come at
this through the lens of perform perance
forget longevity who cares right when
you're 25 what could you possibly care
about that is 60 years away you don't
and I wouldn't ask you to it's too
abstract but if you think about it
through the lens of
performance it's to me that's that's
reason
enough that yeah I mean I think that
that gets increasingly harder at least
for for me when we go on these like long
trips you know or or travel yeah a lot
of that gets challenging and I'm curious
about just just with sleep being a
non-negotiable do is it okay to you
utilize sleep supplements uh especially
when I travel like it's harder for me in
a new environment first night to to go
to bed yeah I I mean I I think it it
absolutely is I mean I us sleep I use
things to facilitate sleep when I'm at
home in my own bed like yeah I'm using
an eight sleep uh I should disclose I'm
an an adviser to eight sleep so people
know that I have a conflict um but you
know very very concerned with
temperature um I used tons of not tons
three or four supplements that Aid with
sleep when I'm traveling um long
distances so not in the US but if I'm
off in Europe or I'm in the Middle East
or wherever I am absolutely following a
jet lag protocol um to make sure my
sleep is not disrupted where I'm adding
more things to my mix um and so yes I've
got this down to like a formulaic
science around managing sleep um you
know little things like I make sure
every gym I stay at even if I have to
spend a little bit more or drive a
little bit further it's got a good gym
got it um and by the way if I'm at a gym
like if I'm at a weird hotel that
doesn't have a gym make sure it's tall
enough that it's got steps that I can
run up and down the steps for a workout
like it's little things like that that
you might think ah who wants to do all
that well I don't know do you want to
perform or not right like at some at
some level you know people have to
accept the fact that nothing you're
accomplishing is happening by accident
like you're very deliberate about your
work right you are there's there's
nothing you're doing that's just well
we'll just kind let this not no yeah you
you do you everything you're doing
everything that anyone who's listening
us is doing with the spect of the work
is incredibly deliberate so you have to
be deliberate about these other factors
as well they don't happen by accident
right you have to have the right food
environment you have to travel with the
right snacks you have to make the right
amount of time to get a meal if that's
something you're going to prioritize um
you know picking the right Hotel takes
more time get it but that's that's being
deliberate like you would never shoot a
video and just it without editing it but
that's what many people are doing in
their lives so why are if you did that
your videos would suck so why is it that
people are surprised that if they put no
thought into you know how they plan
meals and exercise and sleep that those
things suck of course they're gonna suck
so this is directly correlated we got
some questions from creators that I want
to uh play for you throughout this
conversation um but this is this is
pretty correlated to this question from
uh Drew hey Peter my name is Drew binsky
I am a travel content creator and always
on the move and I had a question about
burnouts so the last three trips I've
taken in Iran China and India I've come
home super sick and I am one to push
myself to the limits but it's been too
much and I usually never get sick so I
was wondering what can I do to fix that
is it sleep I've been averaging 4 to 5
hours a night uh is it taking more
vitamin supplements is it working out in
the hotel rooms is it taking a break
what kind of things can I do to make
sure that I come home feeling excited
and energetic and just not sick thank
you so much for all you
do so I would say just listening to what
he said probably the sleep is the best
explanation if you're uh if you're at
four to five hours a night your immune
system is basically shutting down um and
so it's not at all surprising that that
he's going to come home and um his his
body is just going to kind of collapse
the other thing that's actually going on
there um is he his his um without
getting too medical jargony his
glucocorticoids are really ramping up to
support the stress that he's under what
was that word yeah so glucocorticoids
are um the stress hormones that help us
cope with chronic stress so cortisol
you've probably heard of cortisol so
that's that's kind of like the the the
the most important of these hormones and
so these hormones are really important
when we're under chronic stress even
acute stress but especially into this
chronic stress where they continue to
put more glucose into our circulation to
keep our brain functioning um they ramp
up other stress hormones like uh
adrenaline and
noradrenaline and what happens a lot of
times is someone comes back from a
situation like that and maybe you guys
have experienced this and they just
completely get sick right yeah and I
think a lot of things are happening one
is the immune issue that I mentioned
with respect to sleep catches up with
them but I think the other thing is
their endocrine system sort of
downregulates very acutely because it
finally gets to turn itself off so this
is a system that's only meant to be on
for short periods of time time and then
let's just say he's talking about like a
7-Day Whirlwind tour he's just had it on
for seven straight days so the minute he
comes home it's like okay finally I can
shut this off and it shuts it off but it
overcorrects and so now he's got none of
these glucocorticoids he's got no energy
his immune systems shut down so again
what would I say to somebody like that
well honestly he's no different than the
CEO who's flying around you know the CEO
of the Fortune 50 company who's flying
who's got to do like the 10 City tour in
seven days and honestly what I say to
them is you got to make a trade-off do
fewer cities or spend more time on the
road so that you're not as rushed as you
are like those are the only two ways to
make this happen right so you can either
say fine I'm I'm GNA instead in seven
days instead of doing 10 visits I'm
going to do six and I have a little bit
more time each day but if he says no I I
can't do that I have to do all 10 then I
said then make it 10 days but he's like
oh I can't be away from my family for
that long
like yeah I didn't say this was going to
be easy I'm just telling you those are
your choices right what about in terms
of recovery because we're we're not
going to China and the places that that
Drew is going but you know we were in
Dallas last week we're going to New York
tomorrow and inevitably when we get back
there is that like it's always three
days of just lower energy kind of a
slump trying to get back in the habit of
working out what can we do in terms of
recovery even if we do do a good job
right of like space faing things out
getting our sleep what can we do when we
get back in terms of recovery um I mean
I I think you just have to I think
you'll generally if you really
scrutinize what's going on the fact that
it's taking you three days to get back
tells me something's not fully optimiz
he said we but he meant I just just so
you know that's not me that's him all
right two days for two days for you okay
so I would I mean I would push I would
push on that and try to understand
what's really happening when you're in
New York because it shouldn't take two
days for you to recover if you're doing
everything right so my guess is if you
are scrutinizing it you might not be
sleeping that well if if you think you
are um you're maybe timing your flights
not well um I know that obviously you're
going to have to leave super early in
the morning so it's like so the question
is are you able to go to bed early
enough tonight that that's not going to
be disruptive and by the way it's great
that you're going to bed at or getting
up at 4: because you're getting up at 7
New York time so that's great but you
have to go to bed tonight at New York
time so if you'd go to bed at 11:00 New
York time it means you actually have to
go to bed at 8:00 tonight well that's
not easy to do if you woke up at 8:00
this morning sure so you you know you
almost have to start the planning a day
before and that's something I typically
do for I don't you know for me going to
New York is only a two-hour time zone so
it's not bigal but if I'm going to
Europe my planning for that trip starts
a day before it's the full day before
what time do I go to bed what time do I
wake up how do I use my workout as a way
to exhaust me even more and then of
course what supplements am I using to to
help me sleep on the plane so that I can
get into the Europe time zone the second
I leave the US okay so you you brought
up this um notion of like I mean all of
us sitting here get paid for our brain
and I think that's a lot of creatives
and a actually it's like a lot of people
who work basically yeah that that's your
income driver that's right um there's a
question from uh our friend Eric that I
want to bring up here all right this is
a second take in case you decide to use
this that's more concise Peter big fan
uh question for you in the Creator
business you can replace yourself in a
lot of ways but the the main thing you
can replace yourself with is creative
it's the thing that gets every Creator
where they are uh and it all comes down
to you at the end of the
day currently I basically get creative
in completely random spurts which I
think a lot of people could relate to
and I'm wondering if you have any ideas
thoughts or science on how to optimize
creativity or to get into a creative
space uh uh on command thank you big
fed I am not sure about getting into a
creative space on demand but I do think
that there is a pretty decent body of
literature on creativity that suggests
you have to create room for it so uh I
don't know if you guys have read Ryan
holidays book Stillness is the key yep I
love Ryan yeah so uh I and I would put
Stillness as one of the 10 most
important books that I've read right so
I love I mean I read a lot um but but if
you forced me to say like what are the
10 most important books that have kind
of shaped how you think about the world
and think about life I I would put
Stillness on that list of 10 I believe
and so so what you learn in there is as
painful as it is we have to get
comfortable with Stillness to to sort of
come up with really good ideas and it's
very difficult to hit those things on
demand um and you know there there's no
shortage of stories of like some of the
greatest works of creativity coming out
of years of frustration and toiling and
doing seemingly nothing so my intuition
as someone again who is not an expert on
this and truthfully someone who doesn't
consider himself very creative I mean
probably I am for my field I'm creative
I don't think I'm creative compared to
to you and your audience um but I know
that some of my greatest
ideas uh generally come to me when I'm
doing
nothing yeah making space for boredom is
so hard right now yeah when you say
nothing what do you mean what does that
look
like so it means uh so I like to Ruck
right so you take uh you know you put a
heavy backpack on like a backpack with
weights and go for a walk that's nothing
well it's nothing in that I don't have
anything stimulating me right like I
don't have my phone with me I'm not
listening to a podcast like I'm such an
information addict that it's very
difficult for me to do things without
also multitasking and bringing in
information so you know I'm riding my
bike on a stationary trainer three or
four days a week well I'm always
listening to an audio book or a podcast
um so I just kind of make the rucking
the exception which is I'm gonna go do
this thing and I'm not going to listen
to music I'm not going to listen to a
podcast I'm not g I'm not going to be on
a phone call I'm just going to walk and
the only thing I can pretty much hear is
my heavy breathing with this weight on
my back
um sitting in the sauna same sort of
thing just sort of sitting there um
another opportunity of kind of not doing
much
um sometimes it's just if I'm on a plane
disciplining myself to close my laptop
and just maybe listen to music which
again doesn't seem like a bad thing to
do but for me seems like oh my God like
I'm not working I'm not working I'm not
working you know this is such an
important window of time in which I
could be getting work done but if I'm
feeling really tired and by the way
another sign for me that I'm
really um working too hard is when I
have a lot of task switching going on
I'm sure you guys can relate to this
right so I've got I've got Chrome open
I've got email open I've got WhatsApp
open I've got iMessage open and I've got
a spreadsheet that I'm building a model
in and I've got a word dock that I'm
writing a memo in and when I can't stop
task switching I'm like shut this
goddamn thing down it's broken you're
not you're not thinking anymore if
you're if you cannot stop going back and
forth and I get these dumb thoughts like
oh my God I got to go read about the
latest like I got to read the latest
blog on F1 let me just go read that
really quick okay yeah yeah okay that's
really good okay let me go back to
writing this letter yeah yeah yeah oh
gosh you know what I I want to look up
this on Wikipedia like I I want to
really understand like I find myself
there a lot which is strange because
historically I'm actually really good at
focusing yeah like always in college in
high school and our career and that's
why I've always edited because I can
lock in and I can sit there but in the
last year or so I find myself in that
position so often yeah and same with me
like I think I
I if Focus was an Olympic sport I would
have been the Michael Phelps of it um I
would not yeah no I'm I am I consider
myself that way too like I can I could
go to the library in college and just
lock in wow yeah so when I'm not yeah
that's a sign shut it down shut it all
down cuz you're not getting any work
done at that point down like what do you
do nothing sit there and suffer sit
there and suffer in silence got it yep
and let it all work itself out I mean
but you're not being productive you just
have to accept the fact when you were
task switching between eight things you
were getting nothing done of any
substance so why waste any more time go
through the purge and then come
back that's scary it's scary to do that
because you feel like it's uh the thing
that'll make you feel better is getting
something done you know like I know that
experience so intimately um but I I I
like I also know what it feels like in
my body to be there and it's a terrible
feeling so that that that's a good well
again I mean this is just a great
example Michael Easter has written about
this a lot like going back to Evolution
like do you know how much Evolution made
boredom
painful think about it like do you think
natural selection wanted you just
sitting around twiddling your thumbs
looking at the
stars I mean no way you were going to
get eaten you were not going to find a
mate and you were not going to find
food you had to be thinking about like
okay where do I need to go what do I
need to so boredom is again we are very
selected for boredom to
hurt the the the members of our species
who liked being bored got eaten or
didn't pass their jeans on that's why
not here right same same with the
negativity bias the people who didn't
have negativity bias they got kicked out
of the tribe they died we don't have
their genes anymore I mean natural
selection is a remarkable honing tool
yeah but again it's an example of how um
you know it's a two-edged sword it is
good I think that boredom hurts because
it drives us to do things it drives us
to be Innovative um it's just that in
the
last probably the last 15 years we may
have flipped over in a world where
there's so much stimulation that our
ability to uh to dissuade boredom has
become actually
counterproductive when it comes to
boredom in your career I want to go back
to that question that you were asking
yourself about like what does my career
have to look like so that in 10 years
I'm not bored by it do you have an
answer to that
yeah I mean I think it depends which of
my careers because again there's like I
have all of these different careers if
you're talking about in the content side
of things yeah yeah it I still have to
absolutely love um you know get get joy
out of the Curiosity that comes from you
know because what the content I create
is is about interviewing people right
and um and the reason I started the
podcast which has been six uh yeah it's
probably been a little over six years
years ago was I just realized like I
keep having these conversations with
scientists and they're so fascinating
and at the end of the conversation I
always think to myself oh I wish others
could have heard that um so then I you
know so it's like well this is what I
want to do right I want to talk about
science without dumbing it down but
making it accessible to everybody and if
that stops being enjoyable to me then I
have nothing to do in that regard and
and I would be okay saying well then
this is not what I'm going to do um if
if not communicating science uh and and
and Medicine you know doesn't get me
excited Then I then I shouldn't do it
the thing I really appreciate about your
model and I actually have been thinking
about this a lot is that it's not an
addback model which then you know for us
we're an addback model right which means
which is most podcasts almost everyone
which then means performance of episodes
is at the is at the height and that can
sometimes be um at odds with like
enjoyment of conversation yep not always
rarely right now but as I look on a 10e
window what I recognized like my answer
to that question is I
think in when I look at this of enjoying
this in 10 years means that I don't have
immense performance pressure I have
pressure to provide value to the
audience but not as much pressure in
explosive viewership or listenership and
I think the membership model that you
have is actually something that I look
at I'm very inspired by of where I want
to get to so that that is not a factor
in the future for us yeah I
am really grateful when we decided in
2019 that hey okay we've done this for
you know six months people seem to
really like it you know I got to I got
to cover my cost here like I'm you know
both my opportunity cost and my actual
cost um and you're right I think at the
time there was only one other person I
knew that wasn't doing an ad-based model
um which was Sam Harris yeah and you
know Sam and I are very close friends we
talked about it a bunch and it was just
kind of a no-brainer I I actually never
really entertained doing ads um no
offense I just I struggle with with
podcast advertising models because I
don't I don't find them genuine right
like at least when you're watching TV
the ad is coming from the company that
is selling something so it's like okay
like you want to buy a Coke like Coke
has made the ad that is trying to get me
to buy coke I always find it funny when
the podcast person is reading the ad as
though they love Coke which is like
really do you really love Coke or they
just paying you to say that you love
Coke like it doesn't make any sense to
me um also for what I do I just think
there's a credibility
of which is different for most most
people in their podcast it's not a hit
to their credibility to sell an ad I
think in what I do it would be very
destructive to my credibility um but
you're absolutely right it means that I
focus all of my energy
on like curiosity and and and relevance
and and how do I how do I make something
that's great so if you look like I'm not
trying to interview famous people right
which is that's how you if you want if
you want to interview famous people like
that's how you're going to kind of grow
but but the truth of it is the most
interesting people in my world are not
famous right like the I mean even people
who have won Nobel prizes they're not
famous outside of their scientific
community so um I like the idea that I
get to interview people who you will
otherwise never figure out who they are
and for two or three hours I want to
expose The Listener to as much of their
world as possible and and how it
pertains to you know the future of of
our health yeah what has it been like to
essentially become famous within your
field because I would imagine you are
essentially especially within the world
of medicine and Longevity famous how has
that felt to you yeah I you know I don't
I don't really perceive it to be
completely honest with you um and I'm
not
sure um I mean I'm not disagreeing with
you although I think if you had said
this a year ago I would have been like I
don't really know but I mean yeah I I I
guess to some extent it is um I think I
would describe it as micr Fame like it's
not fame fame right like I know what
fame fame is because I I I I see it all
the time and I I have many friends who
are legit famous where you know they
can't go anywhere um for me it's
like three or four times a day someone
will come up to me you know in a
restaurant or an airport and say thank
you so much for your work I really love
it can I get a selfie and honestly at
that level it's just it's an honor it's
not an inconvenience it it
feels uh it feels great that and people
always say basically the same thing
which is they're thanking me which is I
think uh means a lot to me so it's it's
it's a it's a huge honor that that
people say that kind of stuff yeah
they're there for Value it's like thank
you for Value not like they're like
thank you for the work you're doing look
how hot petera is let me take a selfie
with EXA it's exactly right which might
happen too don't discount that it's
never happened but I put ourselves in a
similar boat of when people come up it's
generally like hey thanks for that show
yeah I want to ask you about just like
the you know I I think when I was
younger being an entrepreneur was
very um appealing because my father's an
entrepreneur and it got even
increasingly more appealing during the
internet age when we saw movies like The
Social Network and saw like Marx
Zuckerberg a young kid able to create
something you know and so like being an
entrepreneur became very very um sexy
and I'm looking at my dad in his 70s
now and I'm noticing I'm very aware of
the uh amount of stress he's endured
through his whole life uh it's kind of
his Natural State on a day-to-day is
that he wakes up and kind of requires a
problem to
solve he really can't like even in now
in in the space where he doesn't need to
solve a problem he creates problems to
solve because that's his Natural State
and I'm curious about as I'm looking at
myself I I feel very much like that too
and I'm curious about the impact of
chronic stress over long periods of time
as an
entrepreneur what does that where does
that net us out because he has a lot of
health problems too he's got uh chronic
kidney disease He's Got U diabetes like
he's he he has a lot of health issues
and I can't help but look at that and go
is that the fate of the amount of stress
he's endured in his life and his
desire on a day-to-day basis to endure
more well it's really hard to say on any
one individual's case um you know it it
it's probably more the case that as a
result of the stress or the the strategy
that's been chosen to manage the stress
that some other things also were
compromised such as his nutrition his
exercise his sleep and that maybe the
chronic diseases are are more the result
of the imbalance around those things
stress is clearly something that our
relationship exists with on an inverted
U right so so if this is stress and then
this is performance on the y- axis
stress on the x-axis it's it's basically
an inverted U right so really really low
levels of stress do not produce good
performance right yeah like if you have
no stress if there's nothing driving you
like what are you doing right totally so
as stress goes up your performance is
actually going to get better but then
and by the way it's not a symmetric U
right and everybody's U is a different
shape so some people have a u that just
has a little tick at the top right so
more and more and more stress leads to
better and better better performance and
then it just kind of ticks down other
people have a u that like gets better
and better and better and then it very
quickly comes down so so you have to
kind of know yourself there's a little
bit of know thyself in this analysis but
what you have to figure out is like
what's my optimal level of stress for
per performance and recognize when am I
over that right that's a very important
thing is you know you have to be able to
get sort of internal feedback so an
example is like what we talked about
earlier when I'm task switching like
crazy I'm past my level I've already
gone over the edge so I have to come
back so so that's an example of
understanding that the other thing you
want to understand is the shape of your
curve is malleable by the other things
you put in the system
so take away my sleep take away my
exercise my curve got way narrower make
sense if I don't have a workout in me
I'm going to go over that curve much
sooner than if I am in if I just had a
two-hour workout and a great meal if my
relationships are not good like if my
wife and I have a fight my curve just
got way smaller my performance is going
to deteriorate much sooner if I had a
fight with my daughter if my kids left
for school they were unhappy and I
didn't get to walk them and blah like
just you you life impacts the shape of
that curve so what we really want to do
is two things one understand the things
that we do that stretch that curve out
to be its biggest highest furthest J
Apex and then secondly learn what the
dashboard looks like for when am I
tripping over the curve yeah that that's
really interest I I love that learning
when you are tripping over that my my
mind immediately obviously went to
myself but also our team and recognizing
like how do you build a healthy
workplace environment where everyone has
variable levels and everyone came in in
the morning with a different that's
right everyone's and by the way
everyone's going to have their own
different curve but then each person's
curve is going to be different on a
given day based on their life and what
they bring in from home and you know I
mean I think I don't know how much of
your team is remote versus in person but
the more remote your team is which is
unfortunately true of and my team is
we're all uh you know located in
different places it makes it just that
much harder to to sort of figure that
out because a lot of times you can't
pick up on these things you know over
the phone or over Zoom the way you can
pick it up you can pick up on it a
little more kind of around the
proverbial water cooler it's an
interesting thing to imagine if everyone
had that like visible graph in front of
them right like if you were looking at
someone and they had that graph and you
were recognizing where they would be
amazing like just to just to be able to
sort of everybody walks in every day you
see the shape of their curve based on
what happened and you see where they are
on the curve yeah I wonder CU like
creativity happens in teams right I
think um also at the event that at the
spotter Summit that we were at J.J
Abrams was there and he was talking
about creativity in the context of teams
and like when a team gets too big it's
hard to you know do creativity by
committee y there's like a singular
artistic voice and then you need a team
to surround to Foster that creativity
but in small teams you also need to
really know where is everyone everyone
at today y otherwise it's not going to
be effective and also that can quickly
compound to not collaborating well right
there's definitely days where there's
frustration between team members because
someone just has a short fuse yeah right
and this work is hard you're doing
detail oriented cuts on extremely long
episodes pressure of last episode didn't
do so well so now this one has a ton of
stakes to it and so all those Dynamics
is something that we've been thinking
about I think a lot of creators think
about too as you build a creative team
what what what do you think some of the
strategies are is it like just open
communication around where you yeah I
mean when I think about like the most
creative of my teams is is obviously the
the content team and
luckily I don't know I mean I just look
at the guy who runs that team his name
is Nick Stenson um you know I think I
think Nick and I know each other very
well so we've worked together
for 10 or 12 years now um so we're very
very
close um and we don't have a time
disagreeing with each other
um and the team is small enough that
like we we can push back on each other a
lot got it um and even though I'm like
quote unquote the boss the structure is
purely horizontal so everybody on that
team will tell me I'm absolutely full of
[ __ ] when they think I am like they and
sometimes actually it hurts my feelings
like sometimes they are so brutal with
me that I'm like I'm pissed piss off
like I'm not going to lie right so but
but that's really good like like there's
no sense of we can't tell Peter what we
think right um and and then on top of
that like we we and and I'm sure this is
something you guys do as well
like when when we screw up we're pretty
quick to apologize like we don't let the
sun set on a fight sure right so we had
a pretty big blow up three or four
months ago like the biggest blowup we've
ever had as a team it probably happened
at 10:00 in the morning by noon by 11:00
I was
apologizing before we went for dinner
that night we apologize you know we all
hugged and made up again so it it's
important I think it's people need to
understand something about disagreements
the damage of a disagreement is not the
disagreement it's in the lack of
reconciliation this is important you
guys will learn this when you have kids
you know you already know this because
you're married it's not that you
shouldn't fight with your wife it's how
do you fight right can you do it without
name calling and how do you reconcile
when you're in the wrong and if you're
anything like me you're going to be in
the wrong 90% of the time W wives are
generally right if we're being brutally
honest like 90% of the time my wife and
I have a fight it's my fault um and so
it's not that we had a fight it's can I
can I reconcile pretty quickly um can I
can I um can I calm myself down enough
to realize I was wrong do I have the
humility to to own it and to apologize
earnestly and explain why I'm just you
know I'm going to be better next time
and so I think that's true with teams
and I think teams that can fight and
make up quickly um are probably the best
teams there are it's interesting the
through this conversation some my
biggest takeaways are Stillness and
space because some of the challenges
there are when you don't even have the
space to reconcile or you don't even
have the space to have that conversation
because you're so your your cup is so
full that you just have to get to the
next thing yeah you know what I mean
like that that I think as
um running a company that's where I'm
looking at it now and going like how do
we how do we create more space because
right now we are thing to thing to thing
to thing really quickly and sometimes
those things you'll let them you'll let
them pass over because you're like I
don't even I don't know how long that's
going to take so I don't know if I have
the space to sit and
reconcile I think you got to make it
it's tough but I think you got to make
it you have to especially if you can
work your get your mind to realize that
it's it's actually it's an investment
yeah it's a product it doesn't feel like
it but it is an investment it's just
like you would invest in capex you know
if you were manufacturing
process all right I got a fun one to end
on here from uh another
Creator hey Peter it's Jordan matter for
a YouTuber I'm like old really old but I
want to be even older I actually want to
be the first 100y old YouTuber what is
the number one thing I have to do to get
there so short to the point short to the
point I think I think Jordan has over 20
million subscribers I think he's 50
years old old so he wants to do this
until he's 100 what what does he have to
do to get there boy this is I mean
that's a great example of what we talked
about earlier right he's got to he's got
to do the longevity on both fronts
um uh well my recollection because I
remember meeting him in February he
seemed like he was he was doing a lot of
things right um but honestly if you're
going to get to 100 you kind of have to
do everything right that's that's
there's no guarantee you're getting to
100 that's that's you're in really
really rarified Air at that point um so
one is you got so one of the the One
Import most important thing he has to do
is too late which is you have to pick
the right parents so he's 50 years too
late for that because his genes are set
so if he doesn't have centenarian
genes uh like I don't pretty unlikely
you're going to live to 100 but let's
just assume that you're going to take
everything that's modifiable at that
point you're doing everything possible
right you're you're you know you're
managing your lipids your blood pressure
your glucose all of those things to
the level of what somebody would have
had in their 20s so you're you know and
that probably includes a lot of
pharmacology to keep those things in
perfect shape um you're
exercising you know probably you know an
hour six days a week and you know being
well thought out between how much of
that is strength training versus cardio
you know not going too too hard and
creating you know the risk of injury but
but also being very consistent and not
having long periods of time where you're
missing it um you're not eating too much
but you're eating enough protein you're
getting sleep every night you're
managing stress relationships all those
things you're pretty probably pretty
aggressive on cancer screening because
if you're going to get cancer you're
going to have to catch it early and if
you don't the chances that you're going
to beat it are next to nil but that
means you're exposing yourself to more F
false positives basically if you want to
live to 100 it becomes really really
involved uh and then on top of that you
still have to not let that consume you
to the point where you can't do the
thing that you want to do until you're
100 which in his case is be a
Creator good luck Jordan yeah yeah yeah
i' say find a middle ground there yeah
maybe let's call it 80 yeah do it till
you're 80 yeah well that's great thanks
so much Peter app appreciate it man um
hopefully we get to do a I I think on my
bucket list now is to do a workout with
you awesome I think that would be really
fun to do some Farmers carries with your
hex bar all right come to Austin we walk
up and down the street in Austin with
you perfect uh I'll be there too it's
not a buck list item but I'll be there
I'll do it awesome did it right thanks
guys all right welcome to the deep end
the after show after the guest leaves
this is the first time we're doing this
so first of all thank you guys for
joining us here in the deep end where
we're going to talk about our biggest
takeaways from the guest that was a
really interesting conversation one
thing I didn't expect to talk about as a
question I didn't even prepare was about
negative comments and how you know you
only see the negative comment why is
that when there's a CA of positive
comments and the fact that he based in
like human evolution yeah that we are
not me uh to care about whether someone
likes you it's more about whether they
don't like you because when you're
living amongst like a tribe of people
that's what you need to be aware of yeah
I I think with with everything we do
like as as entrepreneurs and creators
like I do think it's really important to
zoom out and look at the human element
of all this primarily because also
another thing he shared that really
really stuck with me is like he gets
paid for the use of his brain and that
is actually like the the majority of you
know creative jobs and and
entrepreneurial jobs so then evaluating
how your brain is working in the context
of what we do every day is really
important and evolution plays into that
which is fascinating the like negative
bias and being hyper aware of that so
you don't get kicked out of your tribe
yeah is such a fascinating like Peak
into human psychology and with YouTube
creators we're building tribes that are
way bigger than we were ever to be
building and you're not face to face
with those members of your tribe right
or members of of you never see those
people yeah so I I thought you know in
that same context of like negativity
positive reinforcement the first thing
that really stuck out to me about this
conversation was his note around
ensuring that you're getting dopamine
from somewhere else other than this
career I thought that was really
interesting because you know I live
daytoday and I can feel feel the highs
and lows of my emotional state being
pretty rooted in the highs and lows of
what we're doing here in the studio I
mean I have not shaken that ability at
all or not even ability but just like
that feeling I which is amazing because
we're like 13 years in and a good
episode still leaves me riding high for
multiple days yeah and a Bad episode
takes me about a week or more to Shake
it Off totally I I think it started to
change a bit in in in my 30s of starting
to invest back into like social life and
friendships and other things like that
that's that sounds crazy but when you're
like a heads down entrepreneur it's
pretty hard to look up and root
your you know dopamine and anything
outside of your work it's still not to a
point where I'm like totally absent of
that but that that was a really good
reminder today to go like where else are
you receiving that so you're not so tied
to the highs and lows career because
it's going to naturally be up and down
from now until the end of you know when
we stop creating together it's going to
be up and down and so you know where
else are we getting that dope mean I
liked what he said about work filling
the maximum available time yeah and then
what you said about
scheduling things that are outside of
work making it a weekly habit because
you don't want to cancel something right
right it's like harder to make plans but
if you just make it a standing like
every Tuesday we play paddle tennis or
whatever it is at least it's there most
likely you don't want to cancel it yeah
I thought about that like with my own
life like I really should be scheduling
more types of like physical activities
like even you going to a workout class
yeah with friends I've joined you maybe
once once yeah like I I could I need
that accountability I think I need like
some group accountability and plans
otherwise I will wake up and be like H
I'm a little tired this morning yeah I I
think that's also the relationship to
like productivity and I think that's
I've always considered working out to be
productive but I definitely find myself
waking up and being like what's the most
productive thing I can do right now and
leaving this conversation the the two
things I want to try and value in the
next chapter to ensure that we have a
long career and that I'm performing at
my best is stillness and space those two
things he brought up quite a bit and I
think thinking about like do you have
space to think is a really interesting
question to ask yourself is there any
time where you're not having an input of
stimulation whether that be podcast
YouTube Instagram Tik Tok uh friends
family wives you know whatever that is
like no inputs do you have any space
like that where you're you're still and
knowing when you need to make that space
for yourself when you talked about task
switching you know where you've like I
can't even oh gave me chills I was like
oh yeah I've definitely been like trying
to buy a flight while also like email my
parents something that I'm dealing with
over there and also I'm in a frame IO
link and I just can't commit to one of
them yeah and I'm just overloaded it's
like man maybe I need to be more aware
of the times that I'm being completely
insane yeah and just and be like look
the only thing you actually need to do
is not one of these things it's none of
them what's hard is that there's like a
dashboard for everything a lot of things
in our career you know particularly like
YouTube Studio you open it you have a
dashboard for how well things are going
there's like green checks or uh grade
checks you don't really have that in
your life unless you actively create it
right like unless you're like what was
my week like did I spend time with
friends did I give myself space did I
think you know like you don't have that
dashboard and this episode recording
this with him sitting down with him made
me take a step back and go like all
right if I am someone who needs to like
look at progress of things and so with
that in mind how can I create a
dashboard for like the holistic picture
of my life like did I exercise four
times this week or not it's like very
simple stuff but it is easy to just go
and push towards the stuff that does
have quantifi quantifiable metrics like
what we do on YouTube like what we do in
our business because that feels really
good to progress quantifiable metrics
and problems also will just come to you
which is easy right like like a one
slack message can be an easily
identifiable problem that you're like
well great now I have something to solve
let's plug in yeah you know the hard
thing to do is be like at least for me
is to be like okay what I'm actually G
to do is block off two hours in the
morning to work out or eat right or do
anything but that but you actually I
think I need to treat my personal health
the same way or in a very similar way
that I treat work I think I okay so like
because that is not hard for me blocking
off like two hours in the morning to out
it's it's I can do it it's hard for me
from like a discipline totally what I'm
saying is I think what what what we need
to do is I need to like I need to bring
you to that with me the workout stuff
and what I would ask you is to I think
you're good at Stillness definitely I
think you're capable of it I'm much more
capable I'm not that capable of
Stillness yeah we were hanging out
yesterday to watch the PLL championship
and I'm working on our presentation yeah
and you're like working on like three
different things I was like I thought we
were just watching this game right but I
am but then I took out my computer and I
started working on stuff I'm near
incapable of doing that you are near
incapable yeah because I'm like oh great
I'm watching a game yeah you need to be
playing a game yes that's the only way
to get you to be a little bit still to
be like playing padle tennis or you used
to swim yeah like you're still there
yeah yeah yeah yeah that that you're
right I'm not good at Stillness and that
that's was very loud to me in this
conversation like I imagine creators who
are listening to this conversation
there's a there's going to be one or two
things that were really loud to you the
loudest thing to me was space and
Stillness I'm very bad at that and
recognizing that the his answer to how
to get creative was create space for
creativity it's such a simple thing to
say but I was like
it's a good point yeah it's a really
good point I'm gonna ask you the
question that he said he he asks himself
what needs to be true for you to be
enjoying this career in 10 years that
one kind of hit me like a ton of bricks
and I asked I wanted to ask him if he
had an answer and he basically said you
know I just need to make sure that I'm
still enjoying these conversations yeah
and that holds true but I think I need
to spend more time digging into it
because I really when he said that I was
like oh I actually don't know what needs
to be true for me to not be bored by
this career in 10 years I think it's a
really good prompt for everyone
listening I it's a excellent prompt for
everyone I I my immediate answer to that
question is what I shared in the episode
which is a reduction of pressure on
performance of content and an increase
in you know uh evaluating our content on
value to those who are listening or
watching
that for me would be like the most
enjoyable version of this career cuz I
do have a lot of anxiety around the
performance of episodes and I'd like to
reduce that and increase my enjoyment of
just sitting in Curious conversation I
wish I could say that for myself but I
also know that I really enjoy when it
feels like you've dominated the
conversation that day when an episode
comes out or you make something and you
put it out on YouTube and everyone's
tweeting about it there's comments like
that to me would keep it exciting if 10
years from now we're still dropping
things that it's like we just dominated
the conversation today yeah that that's
exciting there's nothing more exciting
to me than like people reaching out or a
video taking off I'm Gonna Get You cold
plunging so you get your buzz from that
you know I'm open to that but that I
don't know maybe that's what it maybe
that's what it takes yeah good prompt
for everyone though yeah what what what
would make what you're doing right now
enjoyable in 10 years and you could you
could shorten that window too um I think
there's like simple stuff that we talked
about today that I would also urge a lot
of creators entrepreneurs everyone who's
listening to this to think about like
the Simplicity of sleep exercise
nutrition it's almost sounds ridiculous
because you're like yeah I know it but
unless you actually think about it
you're not thinking about it there's
also so much we did not go into with
Peter today a little bit because we've
spoken with him before and we've gone
really into the weeds of like what do
you do in terms of sleep he you know he
mentioned on the show he takes three to
four sleep supplements a night yeah like
you can find that information from Peter
of what he actually takes when it comes
to working out you can find the exact
exercises and the type of workouts that
he recommends and I urge everyone if you
are interested in that seek it out from
him whether it's in his book or on his
podcast because it's out there and it's
really fascinating totally and and don't
have I would don't have the anxiety that
you have to do exactly that like I think
one thing that's really great about
Peter and and learning more about Peter
is that he's very much pushes you to go
like it's it's every person is different
so like your protocol is g to be
different yeah from mine it's different
from his it's all going to be different
but experiment with what that is and I
told him look like I was super inspired
the first time I heard you speak and
then I've been somewhat discouraged at
the action that I've taken like I've
been disappointed in the actual like
impact yeah but what I didn't say is
that I actually have made a lot of
improvement like I am working out more
so than I was I am more knowledgeable
about sleep and certain things um going
in a sauna cold plunge like I on the Arc
of my progress I have made progress
because of the fact that I have spent
time with him and I've listened to him
and I've been reading his book even
though I am a bit discouraged at like
yeah I I wish I had made more progress
but at the same time I've made progress
that I wouldn't have made if I had not
been listening to him do you remember
some of like the lowest moments M of our
career like the the most kind of fried
and burnt out yeah I mean what do you
remember about those
moments I mean I just I mean I just
remember being like you know not really
fried and burnt out but like sad as
tough as that like I just remember being
like I'm like not ha I'm really like
unhappy yeah you know like it was like a
mix of like social life that I didn't
have validation that I wasn't getting
from career and not eating right being
tired like it was so many things missing
my family like there was just it was so
much I just remember being like damn I'm
like I'm not succeeding and I'm pretty
unhappy right now you know like no cup
was full is kind of what I remember yeah
certain
times yeah I think uh I just remember
like being very far away from my why
like why am I doing this when it was so
hard and there was no
validation you know I just remember
being really far away from like
why yeah because the videos we were
making uh you know at one point at the
beginning of this channel they weren't
we were searching
for we were expressing ourselves and
hoping that we would find impact yeah
and then once we kind of flipped gears
and thought wait what's the impact we
want to make that we care about right
then we could express ourselves in a way
that felt good and also like grew our
Channel and you know has allowed us to
have the channel that we have now gives
you a North star yeah so just on the
back half of this episode I would urge
creators and and entrepreneurs who are
listening to this to just invest some
time into like self-evaluating just
think about what is driving you what
what what do you want your day-to-day to
look like and what about what you're
doing right now would make it still fun
over the next decade I think it's a
really good prompt so let us know what
you thought about this episode also let
us know what you thought about this
little debrief we did after the episode
this is new for us had a good time with
it yeah had a good time let us know all
right we'll see you