Hi insiders. I'm Lauren Sinsky, head of content and community at YouTube Shopping, and this is our podcast series. You guys, I'm so excited because sitting next to me is Dr. Shireen Idris, who is not only I'm going to list everything off, okay? I'm going to brag about you, a boardcertified dermatologist with 15 years of running her own practice in New York City with a 18-month weight list. Not a joke, I called recently. um and in the past 3 years has launched her own skincare line which is also beautiful. I have tried it quite a bit. She's going to talk to us today about all things YouTube shopping. >> I'm so excited to be here and that was embarrassing but thank you so much. [laughter] Something I hear often. >> Tell everybody here what your background is and how you leveraged your background as a dermatologist into social content. >> So first of all, thank you so much for having me. I am absolutely so excited to be here. For those of you who've never been here, it's like a substation underneath the ground where you never have to leave. They do your own laundry. Yes, which is wild. Um, but I am a dermatologist first and foremost. And I never in a million years thought I would be sitting at a YouTube headquarters talking to you about my other lives that I also live. But um, I was attracted to dermatology, just to kind of give you the background. Yes. >> Because I hate convincing people they have a problem. I always knew I wanted to be a doctor, but I never wanted to tell you have diabetes but you can't see it. to go take this medication and then probably you'll not take the medication and then you'll come back and I'll have to treat you again. And so derm is so cool because you could see your skin, you could see your problems and so I don't have to do much except help you help yourself. And so that's how I got into the field. >> Wow. Um, and so that kind of makes sense in hindsight thinking about educating and social because I reached a point where I was just reaching patients in my practice and I was getting kind of really sick of the misinformation and people coming in having done stuff they didn't even know why they got it done, treatments that they didn't need, money spent that they didn't need to spend. And so I turned to social to be like, "Okay, let's cut the This is everything about cosmetics. This is what you need. This is what you don't need. This is how you think of it. This is X, Y, and Z." And I did it because I wanted to own my own voice. So if people would come to me, they knew who I was already and they knew what they were signing up for. And I wanted it to be a very easy and open conversation where people knew that I was giving them the information to help themselves. >> And you do such a good job of that, by the way. You boil down what could be complicated or there's such an oversaturation of products and you make it so simple. >> I just say I say look at the forest before you try to understand every single type of tree that exists because you'll never learn all the trees. But if you look at the forest and you get the lay of the land, it's much simpler to navigate yourself and to help yourself. >> And so, but that's how I started on social and it was really about purely educating people so that they could feel empowered to do the decisions for themselves so that nobody is taking them for a ride, nobody's taking them for an extra, you know, treatment that they didn't need. And people felt like they could actually make a difference in their own lives. And that's how social media started. But I did not anticipate it to have the ripple effect that it had. Genuinely, it started from my bed um as late night pillow talks when my daughter was only eight months old. Um I wasn't in the best mental headsp space and so I really wanted people to feel better so I could feel better. Um and then COVID hit in 2020 and I got COVID and I was locked up really nicely for two weeks in my room. It was actually really nice >> because I had time to think but I had no one to talk to. So that's when you guys came into the conversation. >> That is how the best YouTubers get started. >> That's literally how YouTube started. I was like, "You know what? No one's talking to me because they're not." And my family were sick of me cuz they're like, "You're not really sick, but you're like locked in your room." And so I just put up the camera horizontally instead of vertically because I was used to doing Instagram stories. And I was like, "Let's talk about these moisturizers." And we just started. >> Um, and then my Tiffany, who works alongside me at the time, was like, "Sharen, you just started something. You have to show up every week." And I was like, "What do you mean?" Because I didn't understand the landscape. And she's like, "It's it's a show now. Now you're going to show up and people are going to expect you every single week. So get ready." So I did like I don't know eight episodes that in those 14 days for eight weeks. Yeah. >> And it just started snowballing on YouTube. >> And that's how YouTube started. >> And then you took this surge of viewership of eyeballs, this newfound audience, and you launched your own line off of that. So the line was also never a thought in my mind until down the road. So I I would be lying if I said my dream was to start a skincare brand. No, it was not. My dream was just to be independent, to own my own practice, to be financially independent, to call my own shots, to just live my own life without anybody breathing down my neck. That was my dream. >> Yeah. >> And um the skincare brand came out of a demand from the community that we built. So the online community as you know is called Pillow Talk Derm because it was born from bed. Y >> um and they are the ones who asked me for a product that they wanted to believe in that they trusted because they knew for years I had not really done sponsorships. I had not taken any sort of like brand deals and I was really just talking from the heart. And so when that demand started trickling in more and more and more frequently a light bulb obviously went off in my head and I was like maybe there is space for this but why? And so I made it an interactive thing where I would ask the community what do we want? Do we really want this? Do we not want this? I didn't want it to be a decision that I made because I was asked by like one or two people. >> Sure. >> So, it was something that was constantly brought up and it was a discussion that we had back and forth and then the skincare brand was born a few years later um through those discussions because of the community and because of YouTube and I'm not saying this because I'm on this podcast, but I was able to fund it not just through my practice because I see I see patients every day in my practice. Um but I also have two kids that I have to feed. So YouTube was a great addition to help me start this brand and to really create the skincare brand. >> And I think what you're describing is not unique in the sense that people come to YouTube because they trust creators more. And actually according to a survey done by Ipsos, this is where I sound very factual. Um more people trust YouTube during their purchase journey than other social media platforms. So it makes so much sense that you >> first off built that engagement with your audience, right? You asked them what they wanted and then you delivered. >> Yeah. I mean, but you just I mean, for me, the most valuable currency when I decided to venture into the social landscape was trust. >> Yeah. >> And it's funny, I'm married. My husband, who also has a job and I have my day job as a physician, was like, "You're not taking sponsorships for the first few years." And I didn't really understand. I'm like, "Why? like if I like the product, I'm already talking about it. Why not? He's like because you don't want to corrode the trust that you're building. >> Yeah. >> And so it wasn't to be a martyr that I didn't take the sponsorships, but it was really to be able to speak freely, to speak as objectively as humanly possible. Right. Everybody has their own impartialities and their own subjectivities, but to speak from a place of like pure authenticity from your heart to build that trust. And so for a few years I took zero sponsorships and I was very naively surprised when you could make money off of YouTube just by publishing videos because I didn't know when I started when I had that COVID and I was in that room just starting long content. I had no idea that you could monetize after a certain point. It was more just to talk to people in longer format. That's why I did it. Um, and so I feel like once you have that trust, that's the thing that you always want to hold on to, whether it's on YouTube or in a relationship with your spouse or your partner or your kids. Like once you break that trust, it's all gone. And so trust for me is number one, two, and three. And I would never do anything that will break that trust. >> What's so awesome is that you've launched this product, you've got this super engaged audience, and then YouTube shopping comes around. Yeah. >> What did that do for you and your product line? What made you decide to give it a go? I'll tell you this. As I started to grow right on social and obviously learn about monetization and affiliate links and all this stuff, I realized that I was losing potential viewers because they were clicking out of my videos. And I didn't want to lose the viewers because they wanted to go shopping. I wanted them to stay engaged in what I was saying. Because for me, the most important thing is for somebody to understand the why of why they're using something. And so in all of my long format videos, I will not ever do like a single product review. I will do 10 to 15 different products that I'm recommending through various different price points so that you can make the informed choice for yourself as to why you're purchasing something, how much you're spending, etc. So, prior to YouTube shopping, people would click out and then I would lose them and then maybe I would have told them about another product that would have worked better for them and their budget had they continued watching. Yeah. >> And so that really bothered me. And so for me, YouTube shopping was such a seamless way to be integrated into a long format video where you're staying education first and then accessibility is kind of second. And so the person and the viewer gets to decide when they want to tap into that accessibility or not. But it's kind of like a background thought. It's like you're not trying to sell because that's not my goal anyway. And I felt like it aligned really well with the type of content that I wanted to put out. So that it was like a no-brainer once YouTube started to integrate it within the platform. That's so interesting because a lot of I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that think well >> I'm not salesy or I don't even have that many products to talk about, but what you're essentially saying is that you almost leveraged this product to keep engagement and watch time. >> Yes. Exactly. Because I didn't want them clicking out. >> Yeah. >> And it's like I feel that was the best way >> click out. If they click on a link, done. >> You're done. And then you're gone. And they have to go back. And who has the bandwidth to figure out what minute did they leave the video? No one. So, I love that it was just all seamless and integrated and hopefully they continue watching because they're interested and they want to learn and then they can go back and click through the products to see whatever they want. >> And I'm just going to like put words out here. You tell me if I'm right or wrong. >> When the affiliate program launched, you are already talking about all these products. >> Yeah. >> I'm sure for your viewers by now tagging those products, you're giving them that convenience. You're giving them that full experience because I'm sure they're like, "Well, I want to go buy this thing she's talking about." like where is it? >> A lot of times. >> Yeah, >> a lot of times. [laughter] Like they would So, it's funny like even before YouTube, they'd be like, "Can't you just put a link?" And I'm like, "Can't you just Google it?" >> You know, [laughter] like it's an extra step I don't really want to do, right? >> Um, so it was just much easier, right? >> It's easier for everybody. And obviously, as a viewer, you just want to be able to get what you want when you want it because you don't have time to go looking for it. So, I think the whole fact that it was just under one single umbrella made it a much easier thing for everyone from the creator to the viewer to like experience the whole thing. >> Yeah. And and your viewers want to buy from you and through you because going back to what you said about trust, they trust your recommendation. So, if you're describing a product, if you're going out to actually tag it in your video, >> Yeah. >> then they feel confident that it's going to be something they like because it's not something you're not you don't need to do it. No, >> you're doing it. The other thing I will say is that you're tagging something that's a real product, >> right? >> My other fear is all of these other links where you might be tagging a product that might be black market product, not real. So at least you know you're getting the real deal through whatever you're tagging. And that also was important for me because sometimes when you link something whether now we're not going to talk about through which retailer, you get nervous. Is it a real product? Is it not a real product? You know, are they am I giving my audience exactly what I'm talking about? Yeah. >> So to be able to actually confirm that you are tagging a product that actually comes from the supplier itself is huge in today's day and age. >> When you started utilizing YouTube shopping and now all of these products were tagged in your videos, did you get that feedback from your audience that this was something they appreciated or like what was their reaction to? >> I mean they were just very grateful that the products were easily available. Yeah. >> I think from a content perspective, they were grateful that there's various different price points, right? So, it's not always just one type of price point or one type of product. Um, I also have my own brand, but I'm as impartial as humanly possible to my own brand because I incorporated with other brands as well. And I think they were grateful about that that it hasn't just become a brand tagging situation. >> Um, and so it's really about being mindful audience like what is in their best interest and how can I make this best serve them? And I think when you do that from a place of genuine care, it will it will kind of pay back over time. Not in a financial sense, but in a appreciation sense. >> Well, I think that's what's so special about what you do is that yes, you do have your own product line. And yes, you could just make every video about only your products, but then I think going back to what you said about trust, your audience is going to start to go, >> is that really the best for this or really the best for that? So you find products that complement your own line, that work together with them, >> or even products that are in direct competition with my own line. >> How dare you? >> Yeah, I do. >> One of the fun things at YouTube is we have a whole team of people that tell us the trends on YouTube. And one of the trends we're seeing are creators that sort of demystify all the fluff around skincare and beauty and really talk about the science. Yes. That's something you do so well. >> Yeah. I mean listen everything starts with the science because if you don't have that it's not hocus pocus right and some science creates hocus pocus results but you really have to start with the science >> one of the biggest things that I noticed was that there was this trend of like these 20st step skincare routines and like the morning shed but who has time for this so when we were talking about me and the community being the overall royal we about creating a brand and creating products it was about how can we simplify our lives where we don't need to have these these 20 steps in our skincare routine because it's nearly impossible to adhere to and if you can't stick to it, you're never going to see results. >> And so that's how I started thinking about the Dr. Idris skincare brand where I was like each product has to be multiunctional from a a scientific perspective for long-term benefits from an instant gratification perspective where you can feel better in the now while you're using them. Um for example, like the major fade active seal, that moisturizer that I have in the pump. >> Yeah. It is a vitamin C moisturizer because so many people spend over $100 on a vitamin C serum that I'm like, why not integrate it into your moisturizer? So, that's two steps in one. Open up your budget for another thing that can address another issue in your arsenal. And so, that's sort of how the brand came about where all of our products are really thought of to simplify to go against this 20step trend because I don't think that is a sustainable thing in life. >> Yeah. And you also explain why, right? Yeah. There are all these products out there and sometimes you mention other products but I think with your brand in particular you explain to them the why and what we find with anything in shopping right is the more you can explain the why behind the product the value behind the product the actual result what it's going to look like >> the more you can help the consumer get to that purchase so that's you know again something you really >> I think so I think when you explain to the consumer before you get into the details of how something works works, >> why it would benefit their life and not just necessarily their skin today or tomorrow, but their overall life and how it can fit into their life. >> Then you work your way back into explaining how that works and how that happens. They understand it. And when somebody understands something, they're going to be motivated to want to help themselves. It's not like me shoving it down their throat or forcing it upon them. >> Well, they obviously have a problem, right? Or they're asking a question. And so they're coming and what we see a lot with YouTube is that people are coming to research, right? what do I do for this? Or I've got this going on like how can I fix it? And so I think in shoppable content when you can answer that question, >> you're helping them get to again the end result which is what is going to fix it >> exactly. >> Yeah. >> In the most efficient way, in the most cost effective way that fits my life. >> As we were discussing, you were one of the pioneers of YouTube shopping back when it was really only available to sell your own product line. >> Yeah. In 2023, we opened up our affiliate program and you also were taking part in that. So for you, how has your experience with YouTube Shopping evolved as both a creator, a founder? >> I mean, it's it has opened up doors in many, many different ways for me. From a financial perspective, everything that you know I gained through YouTube and the shopping, I used to put back into my own brand. >> No kidding. >> So my brand is 100% self-funded. We have zero investors. >> Wow. I have >> That's big. That's really big. >> It's really It has It has been a way for me to maintain my independence, which is why I always started what I started. Like I said in the very beginning, I just wanted to always own my own life. And so to be able to do that through YouTube in addition to my day job of seeing patients while helping to feed my kids and send them to school has been huge because I am not at the whims of investors yet. Um, but it's really been amazing to watch the brand grow in that way and to really watch it grow from a place of genuine care because every penny that I earn has been like through time spent with the consumer online. And so I want to make sure that every penny that we put back into the brand is paid back towards the consumers who are going to get the products in the end. >> Well, I think that's such a difference and you can see it in both your content and maybe other content that feels like it's jumping on what's viral or what's trending. Yes, someone may buy from them once, but then that's it. And what you're creating here is this again community that keeps coming back to the well, not because you're trying to get them to buy from you, but because you're again providing >> an answer to their problem. >> I mean, someone once told me like PR, right? It's going to get a patient in through the door once. Yeah. >> But the only way that patient's going to stay in the door is because of you and your like what you can back it up with. So for me, it's about just showing up as consistently as humanly possible and not being swayed by trends or money or sponsorships or whatnot because at the end of the day, you only have yourself and people are going to be subscribed to you and your thoughts and how you're teaching and how you're bringing it about. So that really for me has always been something that has driven me from the very beginning. I think what's so unique to you is not only again are you a content creator, you're a founder, you're a doctor, you're very multiaceted. Who is the ideal candidate to join something like YouTube shopping? I think we're living actually in a very exciting time because in the very beginning when you think of social, people were kind of trying to fit a persona, trying to put forward something that wasn't fully real or a lifestyle that was hopefully aspirational but not fully attainable. And I think we are now entering the world where people are fighting the perfection of AI and they want to see human beings and they want to see human beings with context with expertise with background but more importantly with experience. So I think anybody who can bring their own point of view through their own experience and their expertise is hopefully going to have longevity in this field. Whether they are makeup artists or whether they are cosmetic chemists or physicians or uh product formulators or whatever it is, engineers, you name it. I think people who have that expertise and experience with a point of view because of their experience can really hit, you know, the viewer in a different way. But it's also important to remember that you're not just your experience. You're not just your um your what's the word I'm looking for? >> Past your your no your um >> credentials. >> Credentials. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Thank you. Like you're not just your credentials. And at the end of the day, you are a human being. So yes, I am a dermatologist, but I'm also, you know, a person who loves skincare beyond just dermatology. And I'm also a mother of two and I'm also a brand owner. So I guess that makes me an entrepreneur and I also run my own practice, [laughter] you know, and I think you realize, wait, I actually fit all of these different elements as well. So why am I just talking about it in one light when I could bring in various perspectives into it from my kids to my life to my brand to entrepreneurship? And so I do think it becomes a much more layered conversation and one that's much more interesting over time because we're all evolving. >> So I think there's this misconception that to be successful on something like YouTube shopping, right? to encourage people to buy a product, you must be this massive influencer with tons of subs for you. You started really grassroots, built it and found success just through what you're saying, which is honest conversations. >> Yes. And just showing up and that consistency of showing up and showing up as yourself and not trying to fit this idea of somebody else. You will find your own people and it will resonate. And I think that's probably the best like the best thing anybody could do if they're about to start on this journey. >> You have this superengaged community. Uh do you think that that is more important versus having a massive audience? >> Your ego is going to get in the way and you're going to think I need a large audience. I need to gain numbers. I need to get bigger. And I would be lying if I told you that hasn't happened to me because it does. And it's something that I struggle with. And I'm like, wait a second. The most important thing is not the numbers. And I could tell you this now from experience. It is the engagement. Because having people's trust, again, that is your most important currency, is going to keep them engaged with you because you're going to want to have that two-way conversation with you. So even if you have just a 100 subscribers, if that conversation is loud 24 hours a day, that is way more valuable than having a million subscribers who are only speaking to you 1% of the day. And so I think you have to really understand I if you're going to go into this that don't get sucked into the ego game of numbers and growth and appearances because it means nothing. It's like being monopoly rich. And the idea of that is not desirable. What you want to have is that engagement and those conversations and those relationships because that's going to allow you to grow to be a better creator to have a better community and hopefully have better outcomes for yourself. And that is a great time to segue to the fact that by the time this episode drops, YouTube shopping is now available for those with 500 subscribers or more. >> So that's amazing. >> Yeah. So anybody can join and anybody can get involved and hopefully build the same amazing robust community that you have built >> or a better one for themselves. >> Never. Who could do that? Who [laughter] could do that? No. So we have seen a 60% increase year-over-year in shopping related views which is a really great thing. and you joined YouTube at the right time >> and it's available across so many formats. YouTube shopping, long form, shorts live. >> What format did you start with and where have you evolved your experience? >> So, I started with long form. Yeah. >> Um because that's where I show up every Saturday morning at 10:00 a.m. on my channel where we go into different conversations at a relatively deeper, you know, pace. Um, and so for me, long form has been the place where I can really help people understand things. But shorts has been incredible to have a wider net that you can cast. So it's more like top of the funnel where people can actually get their eyes on you through shorts. And if they happen to see the product, great. But hopefully they click the video and it leads them to the long form so they can understand the why behind it and they could see what other options they also have. Um, but for me it's always long form first followed by shorts. And then live I started doing more recently on the go because I felt like on other platforms and nobody's paying me to say this. It's gotten diluted. So I wanted to really connect with YouTube more because it's really your own subscribers who see you on your live and not you know outsiders. And so the conversations on the lives have been really much more meaningful, much more intimate, much more in-depth. So I'm I have not yet started tagging products on lives. So that's something exciting to discover. >> Uh we can't wait for you to do that. Um, and then with long form, do you find that you treat how you talk about products differently than short form? I mean, obvious obviously, yes, you have more time, but do you choose to feature different products in the shorts versus the long form? >> I'm actually I'm not No, because everything that I recommend has been through years of use and years of loving it. >> So, I'm never picking a product to recommend just because it's either viral or in the now or whatever it is. So anything that I've talked about in a short, I've spoken about it in a long form and I try to make sure that I always offer not one, not two, but maybe three different options so people have the, you know, the luxury of choice um to make the best choice for themselves. So it might be less options in a short given the time frame. Yeah. >> Um but more or less they're the the same kind of variety of products. And actually what we've seen a lot of people do on YouTube shopping is watch their long form, look for those spikes in viewership, those spikes in offer clicks, and actually clip out those. >> That's really good advice. I've never done that. >> You may That's actually really good advice. That's really really >> The mentor becomes the [laughter] mentee. Um but yeah so we've seen you know people leverage shorts in that way as well but we hear a lot about this that using shorts to highlight one or two things but to push to this longer more indepth analysis where you can really >> like an amuse bush you know where they get a little amuse bush and they're like I want to learn more that's the goal [laughter] >> we're French now um but yeah so >> YouTube [laughter] uh international you know given your authority as a dermatologist and your skincare company's growth. What value do you see in using YouTube shopping when it comes to bridging the gap between education and commerce? >> The the value was actually much bigger than I anticipated because it is so fully integrated so seamlessly. >> I could stay focused on the education aspect of it without ever feeling like I'm pushing a product, pushing a my brand, promoting it. like the fact that it's completely integrated and seamless allowed me to really focus on the why rather than buy this now. And that is sort of like an afterthought thought. So it's always education first, accessibility second. And I think the audience sees that. And so that for me continues to build into the trust factor because it's never about just pushing product and pushing it pushing pushing it or trying to sell it like on a TV show. >> Yeah. We hear that like time and time again. It's content has to come first. >> It has to come first. That's >> quality of content. >> Quality Exactly. Quality of content has to come first. You're thinking about your audience first >> and then looking at something like YouTube shopping as an additive, >> like an adjunk, like a cherry on top. >> Yes. As a as a convenience that you're giving them. I think that's like something that we keep trying to explain to YouTube creators is that it it should be complimentary to what you're doing. >> Exactly. Like you should be focusing on what you love. Yes. And it should be kind of like little side chat bubbles that people can click into if they are interested or not. and then you too can start your own company. Um, become a doctor and go to space. We don't know what she has. >> Maybe >> we don't know. We [laughter] don't know what's next for her, but we're going to keep watching. Thank you so much, Dr. This is so much fun. >> Yes. More soon.