---
title: '🔴LIVE | Awful News. MMORPGS Are dead. | Comeback City Show #worldofwarcraft'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=tv-kD0ZBRTU'
video_id: 'tv-kD0ZBRTU'
date: 2026-08-09
duration_sec: 7393
---

# 🔴LIVE | Awful News. MMORPGS Are dead. | Comeback City Show #worldofwarcraft

> Source: [🔴LIVE | Awful News. MMORPGS Are dead. | Comeback City Show #worldofwarcraft](https://youtube.com/watch?v=tv-kD0ZBRTU)

## Summary

This live stream from the Comeback City Show covers the shocking news that Ashes of Creation, a highly anticipated MMORPG, is shutting down within days. The hosts react to the announcement, discuss the implications for the MMO genre, and share their thoughts on the future of World of Warcraft and other upcoming titles.

### Key Points

- **Stream Restart and Technical Issues** [00:06] — The stream begins with the hosts dealing with a brief outage and testing their connection on Twitch and YouTube, joking about their internet provider.
- **Excitement for Labyrinth** [02:02] — The hosts express genuine excitement for the new Labyrinth feature in World of Warcraft, comparing it to mega-dungeons and expressing a love for long, rewarding solo content.
- **No-Map Idea and Community Poll** [03:20] — A discussion about the idea of having no map in Labyrinths to enhance the adventure feel, with the hosts polling the chat and debating the pros and cons of such a feature.
- **Ambassadors Program and Guild Updates** [06:35] — The hosts mention an ambassadors program for community engagement and provide updates on their guild, including limited spots and a planned purge before launch.
- **Breaking News: Ashes of Creation Shutting Down** [07:59] — The stream pivots to breaking news that Ashes of Creation is reportedly laying off all employees and shutting down, with the hosts expressing disbelief and shock.
- **WARN Act Notice Details** [10:29] — Details of the WARN Act notice are read, indicating a permanent plant closing by February 2nd, 2026, affecting all positions, and the hosts react to the severity of the situation.
- **Steven Sharif's Statement** [15:48] — The hosts read a statement from Steven Sharif, the founder, who resigned in protest over board decisions, leading to a mass layoff and the company's closure.
- **Impact on the MMO Community** [18:06] — The hosts discuss the negative impact of Ashes of Creation's failure on the MMORPG community, suggesting it will deter future investment in the genre.
- **Reactions from Developers and Players** [20:23] — The stream includes reactions from a developer's emotional farewell and comments from players who invested significant time and money, highlighting the human cost of the closure.
- **Community Member's Perspective** [23:28] — A trusted community member shares their view that Ashes of Creation's failure is a prime example of why MMORPG players are cautious, citing years of development and perceived trickery.
- **Shock and Disbelief** [26:25] — The hosts continue to express their shock, noting the game's recent Steam early access launch and the suddenness of the closure, which they describe as a disaster.
- **Future of the MMO Genre** [27:16] — The discussion shifts to the future of MMORPGs, with the hosts wondering what games are on the horizon and expressing skepticism about the genre's ability to recover.
- **Criticism of Leadership** [33:42] — The hosts criticize Steven Sharif's decision to resign, arguing that as a leader, he should have worked to resolve the situation rather than abandoning the project and its employees.
- **Tragedy vs. Scam** [37:29] — The hosts debate whether the closure is a scam or a tragedy, concluding it is a tragedy for the gaming community, though they acknowledge the board's actions were questionable.
- **Chrono Odyssey as a Potential Successor** [41:18] — The hosts mention Chrono Odyssey as a game that could benefit from Ashes of Creation's failure, with one host planning to create content on it.
- **Sadness for the Genre** [45:36] — The hosts express sadness over the loss, noting that competition is good for the genre and that Ashes of Creation's failure is a blow to players who wanted a new adventure.
- **Nostalgia for Classic MMOs** [49:27] — The hosts reflect on their experiences with classic MMOs like City of Heroes and Star Wars Galaxies, wishing they had experienced the golden age of the genre.
- **Community's First MMOs** [50:46] — The chat shares their first MMOs, including Star Wars Galaxies, EverQuest, and Ragnarok Online, leading to a nostalgic discussion about the genre's history.
- **SWTOR Cinematic Trailers** [53:03] — The hosts praise the cinematic trailers for Star Wars: The Old Republic, calling them the best in the business and reminiscing about their impact.
- **Favorite SWTOR Races and Stories** [57:35] — The hosts discuss their favorite races and class stories in SWTOR, with mentions of the Sith Warrior and Imperial Agent storylines.
- **Prediction of Intrepid Studios' Fall** [01:05:33] — A clip is shown of a prediction made on January 27th that Intrepid Studios would fall before the end of 2026, which came true less than two weeks later, shocking the hosts.
- **Steam Refunds Question** [01:06:19] — The hosts question whether Steam will provide refunds for Ashes of Creation purchases, with a chat member suggesting they likely won't.
- **Impact on WoW and Competition** [01:07:30] — The hosts discuss how the lack of competition is bad for the genre, noting that WoW benefits from having strong competitors to keep Blizzard on their toes.
- **Final Fantasy as a Competitor** [01:10:29] — A debate ensues about whether Final Fantasy could ever dethrone WoW, with the hosts agreeing it could pop off with a good expansion but never reach WoW's level.
- **Debate on WoW's 'Feminine' Direction** [01:12:18] — The hosts engage in a heated debate about whether WoW has become 'feminine' or 'soft' due to cosmetics and housing, with one host strongly disagreeing with that characterization.
- **Anduin's Character Arc** [01:16:12] — The hosts discuss Anduin's traumatic experiences and argue that his emotional moments are justified given what he has been through, defending the character's development.
- **Evolution of Gaming Narratives** [01:18:51] — The hosts agree that gaming narratives have evolved and that WoW's shift towards unity and harmony is a natural progression, though they miss the 'badass' male leads of the past.
- **Midnight Expansion Expectations** [01:21:43] — The hosts express excitement for the Midnight expansion, calling it the 'Empire Strikes Back' of the saga and hoping for a darker, more impactful story.
- **Need for a Strong Male Lead** [01:26:42] — The hosts agree that WoW needs a strong male lead character to step up, mentioning potential candidates like Arator and Turalyon.
- **Excitement for Midnight's Features** [01:29:08] — The hosts discuss their excitement for Midnight's features, including ability pruning and a new raid boss, and share their plans for add-ons at launch.
- **Desire for Character Deaths** [01:31:54] — The hosts discuss the need for significant character deaths to add weight to the story, referencing Game of Thrones and the Legion expansion as examples.
- **Next Generation of Leaders** [01:36:50] — The hosts talk about the need for new leaders in the Horde and Alliance, mentioning characters like Zuljin's kids and the potential for a new warchief.
- **Desire for Badass Characters** [01:43:46] — The hosts express a desire for characters to be 'badass' without relying on identity politics, citing examples like Alleria and Lilian Voss.
- **Class Spec Discussion** [01:50:45] — The hosts discuss the best DPS specs in the current patch, mentioning Demonology Warlock, Arcane Mage, and Frost Mage as top performers.
- **Classic Plus Predictions** [01:54:11] — The hosts predict that Classic Plus will be announced at BlizzCon, but argue that classic players will never be satisfied, regardless of what is announced.
- **Underrated Specs** [01:56:40] — The hosts share their picks for underrated specs, with mentions of Balance Druid, Windwalker Monk, and Shadow Priest.
- **Classic vs. Retail Community** [01:58:34] — The hosts discuss the differences between classic and retail communities, noting that classic fosters a sense of community but retail fits their busy lifestyles better.
- **Closing Remarks and Community** [02:01:17] — The hosts wrap up the stream, thanking viewers, promoting their Discord and guild, and hinting at future content, including a possible show with a classic creator.

## Transcript

I think we're back up. Can anyone let me know if we're back in live? Are we live? one is live. Are we live? Testing. Testing one, two.
>> Anybody? >> We're live. take me out today, guys. These classic Andes aren't going to take us out today. Andes aren't going to take us out today. We stream until the lights go off. Until
my woman comes in here and calls me an idiot. We stream. Yo, we're back. Okay. Okay, dude. Xfinity is such a freaking joke. I love
Xfinity is such a freaking joke. I love a 15-second outage. It makes me love my >> Well, I love it. I pay the most money for the best internet until I can until my woman comes. Never. That's never happened.
>> That's a virgin. >> I have never made love. Please teach me how to do it. Anyways, uh Okay, let me fix the chat. Okay, let me see. Boom. Okay, we're back. Uh last thing to check is this. Boom. Boom. Okay, I think we're
is this. Boom. Boom. Okay, I think we're officially in business. Did I tell you? I think we're good on Twitch and YouTube. Guys, can I get some ones in the chat if we are still good and everything's fine across Twitch and
YouTube? Please, can you guys let me know? Let me fix my my backup stream. Hold on. We got tons of ones, baby. Tons of ones. We back, baby. We back. I think Yeah, I think everything's back up. Okay. Damn.
Sorry about that, guys, man. That's tough. Way to waste one. Yes. All right. Shout out to you guys. We are back. Um I don't even know what we were talking about. Uh we were talking about the road map
brother. It is what it is. We still ball. We're here. We're here. Um so going through this a little bit more. Let me turn down the volume here. Um think for me personally though throughout this is going to sound crazy.
Um I'm most excited though about Labyrinths. I got to be completely honest. I know there are some World of Warcraft players that don't like delves. Like I know there is, but I am not one of those players. I am someone who is
of those players. I am someone who is like genuinely in my heart of hearts so excited for Labyrinth. Like I've been begging for an advancement or update towards it experience. I love mega dungeons. I love
when dungeons and events feel long and rewarding like running Black Rockck Depths in classic or running a mega dungeon in retail. It's just a fun, >> 100%. >> So giving me the ability to do this solo
I'm I'm in love. I'm sorry. >> Well, and one thing like we were talking >> Hey, Juan, we're back up, by the way. We're back up on YouTube. Oh, whoopsies. the other day during the stream was what would be really cool is if during this
um to kind of disorient you and make it really feel like an adventure is no map. explore it. >> No map >> dog. It could also be annoying if not done, you know, depending on how they
designed this thing. But ask Listen, anytime anytime listen, one thing we got to do is anytime you come up with a good idea, ask the chat what they [ __ ] stole that idea. >> Then you're a terrible person.
>> Yeah. >> Then bring it up. Let the people know. Talk about it. Do you guys think that it would be cooler to have it in these in these labyrinths that there is no map and you have to just raw dog full on try
to find your way through this thing? >> Raw dog. Wow, look at you. >> You little weirdo. You little freak. Yo, [laughter] let's live. What's wrong with you? No. Horrible idea. Well, all right.
Okay. >> Oh [ __ ] Listen, I heard some people in would be cool if you have to bring in your own notepad and map it out yourself." >> Okay, it's it sounds cool in theory, but
[ __ ] me. That sounds like a disaster. That's crazy. I would get so lost. I get lost even with a map. Yeah, it listen, the idea of it, of course, in theory is like, wow, it'd be a real adventure. I'm pissed off after about 15 minutes. This
ain't Dark Souls, man. This ain't Dark Souls and you're not that guy. >> No, no, no. Here's what we need to do. We're going to run a poll. Should Lance We're going to run a poll. Should Lance get up and exit the studio? Yes or no?
get up and exit the studio? Yes or no? Get out. Oh, I'm just joking. Um, if they could set it to where you wanted to turn off the map or leave it on. >> What if there was a hard mode with no map that if you did it with no map plus
extra things, you got >> True. That's [ __ ] cool. Now we're >> I'm going to vote no. >> Hear me out. right. You got You got to have the good-looking guy.
>> Slash roll. Yo, true. >> They have a hard mode. >> No, we need more bad ideas. >> That's [laughter] crazy. >> That's actually crazy. >> No, keep that guy around. He's good to
funny. >> Hear me out. Here's the new idea. One life, no gear, hardcore, >> no map, >> character deleted. If you die without reaching a fire, like a little
campground, like a fire, you have to rub peanut butter souls. You have to rub peanut butter on Ian Hazakos' feet. Yes or no? Go. Go, Chad. Hakos's house, rub the peanut butter on his feet, and say, "Yes, Zealot." Yes,
>> That's crazy. Anyways, let's let's go through some of the stuff that was like really majorly announced. Uh, I think they I thought they had like a little section. Who hurt y'all? Dude, >> a lot a lot of a lot of a lot of pain in
>> Help me. Help me. Help me. Uh, I thought they had like a little recap session. All right, new idea. Just as Canadian said, if you die one time, your account is perma banned. You lose everything. Oh, wow. Jesus Christ. Anyways, um I was
also very interested also in this ambassadors program. This is a really cool idea to sort of get communities and Discord servers involved with like finding, you know, a place to call home. By the way, really quick, if you guys
By the way, really quick, if you guys are interested, uh, our Discord is open. Let me take away my private message. >> I want to say this, by the way, the want to make sure >> we're going to have a second we're going
to have a second uh, we have a second guild. We do have a second guild that will be available, but in the main guild, the spots are limited. through and figure this [ __ ] out. >> Also, if you're in the main guild, if
you're going to have to get kicked. I'm sorry to tell you, we're down to under 50 spots left. Holy [ __ ] Well, also, it's going to trim probably one more time right before launch. Probably like a week. Uh, can I join the guild if I
only solo? I mean, sure. Um cuz you're also a very dedicated viewer, Mary. So, also a very dedicated viewer, Mary. So, absolutely. Um but uh I would say that the spots are going to get cleaned up one more time right before launch cuz
we're doing this. We're doing like a purge. Uh yo, Fud, what's going on? Good Wait, what do you mean Ashes is dead? >> So, I guess something happened. that. >> Wait, really? What the [ __ ] Is that
true? >> Yeah. Oh, also, um, I actually just got a message from the GM >> from Wait, Stephen Sheree, you got a >> man. From our GM in our guild. >> Um, we're probably gonna make it so you
can only have your main in the guild, guys, because we're just We have so many people who want to be in the guild. >> What? Ashes of Creations is imploding in the Ashes of Creation subreddit. What?
>> In the subreddit? Wait, what's going on? >> Huh? What the [ __ ] is happening to Ashes? Is anything good or no? No way. The stream failed again. You're lying. No, we're live. There's no way. We're
good. We're live. Yo, you're scaring me, bro. You're giving me freaking anxiety. and YouTube? It says I'm good on YouTube. No, we're live. Okay. Sorry. So sorry. Okay. Wait, so what happened with Ashes?
love you, buddy. Hope you and the kids are good. And the wife, of course. Obviously. You know what's crazy? Lance didn't steal my bad idea. I'm sad. [laughter] That's [ __ ] nuts, bro.
Ashes is dog. Yo, listen. I'm going to be honest, guys. Yo, I played Ashes. >> Don't You're going to get a You're going to get the the stream taken down right now if you don't watch your mouth.
>> No. What's going on? Yo, it's bugging out. Yo, what is going on? that Steven resigned and whole dev team got laid off. You're [ __ ] trolling. You're [ __ ] trolling. There's no way.
>> There's absolutely >> Ram said that at the same time. >> There's no way >> there. Yo, do I get my money back?
>> There's no way. There's no [ __ ] way. [singing] There's no [ __ ] way. [singing] >> What? There's no way >> What? There's no way >> again a notification.
>> Wait a There's no way. Yo, Narc was right this whole time. It was a scam.
possible this is real. There's no [ __ ] way. There's no [ __ ] way. >> They ran out of money. something they legally required to do is my understanding when you're laying off people. And so
um again to recap the the again to recap the the second 2026 Intrepid Studios will issue a layoff notice to all of its employees via first class mail. This notice
via first class mail. This notice affects all job title at all positions. to undertake an entire impermanent plant closing within the meaning of the Warren Act by close of business on February 2nd, 2026.
>> They're shutting down in a week. Oh my god. Are you [ __ ] kidding me? >> Yo, when I would say that like that game's never coming out, it was like a >> Oh my god. Oh my god. I can't believe it. There's no [ __ ] way. So, the last
scam they did was put it up for early access to try to get the $40. >> They're the most sack of [ __ ] people ever. Oh my god. Yo.
plans to coordinate with the local workforce uh development board and there are no bumping rights. Are you [ __ ] kidding me? Yo
this real? There's no way. It's actually kind of a big deal. Are you joking? That is a nuclear deal, bro. That that is that was one of like supposed to be the MMO saviors. So like that that's a
that's a huge deal. If Ashes can't make it with the amount of funding they have. >> Wait, hold on. The first time I saw that gameplay of that game, I knew it was not >> No, no, no. But you know what I meant. It was supposed to be one of the big
ones supposed to come out like a surehanded like this riot MMO. Like we all everyone thought it's a sure thing. Like
Even sure? >> There's no way. There's no way. Oh my god. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, November 24th. No. Uh,
>> Okay, so >> is this real, though? >> is this real, though? >> Give it a day. You never know.
I feel like there would have been a lot more news. know, we'll see. Holy [ __ ] Does anyone have any articles we can see? Does anyone have any sort of articles or anything that we can see like a link to
or anything? Hey guys, just tuning in after playing AOC all week. Wow, what a game. I can't wait for the full release. Brutal, what's up, buddy? Yo, wait, Brutal, what's Wait, so what's going on, dude? With Ashes. No, all
jokes aside, did it just found what I typed above? See what I typed in? ago. >> An unusual number of employees over 20 have recently updated their LinkedIn profiles to open to work, including the
senior leadership members. >> Yeah, that's uh there's no way. There's no way. There's just there's no way this game yo this will be the
>> I actually can't wait for the documentaries that like >> maybe you should make a documentary. I don't got the time or energy to make a do it, >> dude. I don't I don't even know enough.
Like, if I was a part of it. Okay, so this just came out a few hours ago at 5:00 p.m. Ash's aesation team addresses early access issues in community letter. Delays development stream. Apparently, Steven pieced out after the board
clue how truthful that is. Obviously, that's what he said on Discord. So, he that's what he said on Discord. So, he quasied out. He pulled a quasi. He said, back on. Hold on." >> Damn. Big rips, guys. Big huge rips. But
>> No, it ain't rest in peace. It's rest in [ __ ] >> No. Rest in power, King. Rest in power, King. through this. Ash Creation team shared a letter to the community to update
issues since the Steam early access launch. from R&T and body issues, which nightmare, um to unfinished gameplay systems and elements and performance next development update stream has also been pushed back, which by the way, they
time with having more in-depth response to the issues they have new today. It's joined us on a journey, not a finished road. That doesn't mean you should accept broken systems or unclear direction. True. They address the
issues with several of these belonging to different aspects of the game. performance issues and bugs including crashing and gameplay breaking issues crashing and gameplay breaking issues are different. Okay, so related uh
are different. Okay, so related uh >> Pantheon outlasted Ashes of Creation. >> Pantheon outlasted Ashes of Creation. Pantheon outlasted it. Holy [ __ ] [ __ ] Pantheon. Okay, here it is. This is Steven Sharief's direct statement on
Discord. Shout out to Brutal Static, by the way. I can make a limited statement in my personal capacity and not on behalf of the company. regarding the situation. Control of the company shifted away from me. First of
all, how does that happen? >> Cuz he got investors, man. Away from me and the board began directing actions that I could not ethically agree on with or carry out. As a result, I chose to resign in protest rather than lend my
name or authority to decisions I could not ethically support. Following my resignation, much of the senior leadership team resigned. Following those departures, the board made the decision to issue Warrant Act notices
decision to issue Warrant Act notices and proceed with a mass [ __ ] layoff. details at this time due to ongoing legal and governance matters. What I can say is that the developers and staff acted in good faith and deserved better
than the uncertainty they are now facing. I am incredibly dismayed by the facing. I am incredibly dismayed by the Yo, you mean to tell me? You mean to [ __ ] tell me he got that they tried to say, "Yo, balls to the
wall. There's no way you'll do it. There's no way you'll just can this There's no way you'll just can this whole thing, right?" And they did. >> Yo, this is this is [ __ ] >> I don't think the WoW devs ever really
cared about Ashes of Creation because their their demographic was just very different. They were going for more of a classic. So they said they stated by February 2nd this [ __ ] is getting shut down. That's what they stated in the
other article by lit literally a couple days. That's is that Monday? >> Brutal. I guess they got they got a bunch of investment I think like a year >> Oh my god. Oh my god.
>> Yeah, Monday they're closing down. >> Oh my god. And this is not me trying to clip farm or anything or like over like overreact for a [ __ ] show or because I'm live. If I was not live, I would probably be reacting way worse and
cursing up and down. This is [ __ ] insane news. I cannot believe this is >> As much as I had beef with this game and I didn't like a lot of the things they were doing, I definitely wanted to see this game succeed and come out. I 100%.
100%. And there were good things about this game. I thought there were more [ __ ] than good. But let me tell you something right now. This is really really bad for the MMO RPG community. I'm not going to lie. I don't see people
wanting to invest in MMO RPGs anymore. This is this is bad. My stream is freezing again. Yo, Ash is a creation goddess. >> Steven Sharief said pack his ass up right now. Yo, Ash is a creation
right now. Yo, Ash is a creation goddess. My stream is bugging out. >> Warning. The stream's current bit rate is lower than the recommended bit rate. been a problem. I hate you, Xfinity. >> They're going to have Yeah, they're
going to make money. >> Yo, this is so bad. money closing it down rather than keeping it open and paying. >> How would they make money from closing it down? I don't understand. Can someone
>> probably from the money that they already had come in? They already had a [ __ ] ton of money come in. Yo, >> you think they didn't have a bunch of people buy the early access, too?
>> Yo, this is a [ __ ] disaster. I need to go I need to go to Ghost Crawlers new MMO is a disaster, by the way, too. So,
Ethernet cable, right? Yes, absolutely. >> Yeah, we're we're not on the Wi-Fi. >> Yeah, we're we're not on the Wi-Fi. >> Okay, so this is from Twitter. Uh this is one of the develop Oh my god, that's the that's the female that uh
does the newsletters and everything. My time this chapter has come to a close. ended. To the Ashes of Creation community, you're some of the most seen in this industry. I genuinely wish I could have done more for you. I gave
everything I had and did my very best with what was within my power. I ask one developers. We are people who have families who have just lost our jobs after pouring our hearts and souls and ashes of creation. To my incredible game
services team, wow. All this is terrible. This is horrible. This is horrible. This is horrible. I can't believe this >> Yeah, Jake. Uh, Ashecration just got imploded. It's getting shut down by
Monday. Monday morning. Ash of Creation is no more. to see that happen. >> Yo, Ashes of Creation really never came out. I was looking at this game since
high school. 10 years ago. Me and Lance were looking at it and talking about this game 10 [ __ ] >> Pantheon's still kicking, buddy. >> Oh my god. Oh my god. No, from what I'm
it's not that people weren't liking it. It's the fact that the the board wanted to take the game into a different direction than he wanted to go and he want, I'm going to peace out." And they said, "Okay." And then a bunch of the uh
wanted to leave with him. So, they just are shutting the [ __ ] down. Even no hit your own. Damn. In video game history, Ashration has reportedly laid off their entire staff and CEO. Here's all the news that just broke 5 minutes ago. I'm
take. >> Oh. Oh my god.
alive and have players, you're technically kicking more than this game Pantheon. >> Pan. Absolutely you can. You can still developing it. It's still in early access. Um, this is [ __ ] depressing
because, say what you will, I will be completely real, throughout the entire life cycle of Ashes of Creation, they did their best talk to the community about the what they want. This is a disaster. I'm not
going to lie. And I didn't love the game personally, but for the people who love MMO RPGs, this is a borderline nightmare scenario. I would have never ever ever bet that this would happen this fast because they
just went to Steam. They made a shitload of money. They they went into early access and made a lot of money. They went into alpha 1, alpha 2, whatever. They were making bread. And now, yeah, this is horrible.
Yo, for the MMO community, this is bad. Another MMO bites the dust and World of right. >> The king's still on top, man. not too long ago talking about how Ash is a creation. That [ __ ] ain't never
coming out and that World of Warcraft remains number one. I said there's two things in life that are always going to be the same. You're always going to pay >> WoW's going to be number one. >> Wow is going to always be on top.
an hour ago. >> Adre, this is breaking news less than >> Adre, this is breaking news less than >> breaking news live report.
>> no shot. No, there's no way. >> No [ __ ] shot. >> He was arguing with him. I can imagine him coked up in a boardroom [snorts] snorting lines and arguing with himself. >> All right, let's get into it. Uh, Towi,
very, very trusted community member. Uh, not 100% sure on the Ashecation story everyone was laid off from what I'm statement. That being said, Ash Decration is a prime example of why it's
MMORPG that comes out and why they're sometimes or most of the time a bit highrung or volatile about it. a bit highrung and volatile. >> The thousands of dollars spent some 20k,
some 30k, eight 8 years into development. Hell, I even kickstarted it for $400 on the first day of Kickstarter. But I quickly realized what all the non- naive and smart gamers realized about 6 years in. It feels like
trickery. feels like the inevitable, which may be perceived as a scam at this point. Steam just rolled out what a month ago, and there were no signs by mean about AOC players, I feel downright sorry for them. Yeah, this is a [ __ ]
disaster. Even all the content creators, like, man, say what you will, bro. When I do like their content, even though if >> Wow, man. Wow. Wow. I can't believe this. I can't believe it. What, man?
[ __ ] What the [ __ ] is the MMORPG space going to do, man? Like, don't get me wrong, I love World of Warcraft. If if yo, you want to give forever. I will. I swear to God, I'll stay in World of Warcraft forever. But
man, there are like thoughts that I have eventually being like, "Man, I wonder if I can get another channel going and try to go into another MMO space and see and show people what we can do as creators and and how passionate we are
about MMO RPGs." I can never get the opportunity cuz every game I I like I just started YouTube four or five years ago, four years ago realistically and I was too young to enjoy things like Star Wars Republic, Wildstar. Um what else,
Lance? What are some good RPGs in the mid thousands like 2010s? Any other wars? I guess >> what about um what was that one game called? The one game that the guy who was going to do Pantheon made in like
2008. Lord of the Rings Online. >> Yeah, Loro. Guild Wars 2. I thought own personal funds in the beginning. Why even did they have a board of directors? Sounds unnecessary for a private company. Well, to make a game like this,
[clears throat] it cost not a few million dollars. We're millions of dollars. >> No, MMOs are the most biggest money in >> They're the biggest. >> I heard that just last year alone it
costed $100 million to keep WoW running. My friend tested raids with death and Um, >> what are the chances the next big thing starts as a Minecraft mod or Roblox mod? I mean,
um, >> holy [ __ ] Ash Creation. announcement that they're laying every single employee off and shutting the doors on the studio inside of the next 24 hours. What a [ __ ] disaster. I
can't believe it, man. I really can't. I am I am so shook. [ __ ] dude. Man, that [music] sucks. Even though I I wanted the game to succeed because it was on my
radar, man. I'm going to be honest. I I was excited in a way for it. Like, there's nothing like a new adventure. There's nothing like it. That's why a new WoW expansion or whatever is always just so money because it's just brand
new. But like, especially heading into a new IP and a new world like top to bottom. Yeah. It's um it would have been a really exciting thing to at least test out. Yo, New World Atlasted Ashes.
True. But New New World is still around, but it's that they announced it shut down before. So I I give the the nod to Ashes.
I wonder maybe Steam will give you your money back. Rift is coming back. Oh Jesus. Yo, Rift. Holy [ __ ] Yo guys, when it comes to MMO RPGs other than World of Warcraft, what are we really thinking
about or getting hyped about in the next 5 years before it would be the Riot? >> we know about? >> Is there anything else on the horizon >> You have to hope that um whoever owns the EverQuest IP, I don't even know who
>> EQ. Any chance New World gets picked up by before it gets shut down? >> Monsters and Memories. I I don't know. Monsters and Memories will not be a mainstream game just because of >> oh my god
>> oh my god >> its whole uh its entire just philosophy I think is not >> kids are hypale. What is that? >> like a it's like a Minecraft mod turn MMO RPG.
>> I mean it's it looks good but >> Well, you're killing me, man. I don't >> Rift was cool in concept by the way. Guild Wars 3. Yeah, maybe in 5 years when it comes out. I I don't understand how we have
the one of the best, if not the best fantasy [music] IP ever in Lord of the >> Lightning Fire will be cool. >> We don't have games being created constantly. I I don't understand. I don't get it. It It baffles me so much.
>> You know what the problem with EQ2 was? Bomb Flow is that it came out right around the same exact time as WoW and it just never stood a chance. >> Wildstar 2. Man, I wish Wildstar would make a comeback in some capacity.
>> too much money and too much time. >> You need to like >> the only way to get it made is from a AAA, right? And and then you're going to need a AAA company. I don't know if they're going to want to invest money
into this genre unless it's for an IP that people already know. So, we could end up getting maybe a Lord of the Rings, or something. >> Yo, look at this. PC gamer
>> from September 3rd, 2017. The maker of Ashes of Creation wants to make MMOs great again. 2017, bro. 2017, bro. >> Star Wars QG. Yeah. City Heroes SW.
Yeah, I mean Star Wars 2. Um, by the way, I play Homecoming. always go in once once or twice a year and play for a little bit. and play for a little bit. >> Once or twice a year. I I man I I can't
I can't believe it. Can't believe this is happening. is happening. I'm in so much shock, I'm in so much shock, man. What a [ __ ] disaster, man.
This poor guy, he looks like he's going to cry. >> Vanguard. That's the one that I was thinking about. um let me pull it up here. Um
all positions. >> This guy is he an employee or is he just >> the company has no alternative other than to undertake an entire and permanent plant closing within the meaning of the war act by close of
business on February 2nd 2026. Currently, the company does not have plans to coordinate with a local workforce development board and there are no bumping rights. >> Uh
so a lot of stuff going on. Um >> we're we're seeing here um >> sent five comeback. >> yo, [clears throat] native, thank you so much for the five comeback kid gift
chat right now, let's get some comeback hit icons from the from the support from our community members. Show some love, guys. Comeback hit icons in the chat. gifted is insane. Thank you, >> Casey. There was some sort of like Dark
Camelot Unchained >> that was supposed to come out and that's also a [ __ ] scam. >> Check this out. Yo, if you guys just got uh new Comeback Kids memberships, Kiko, uh JB, Paca, Blue Frosty, Allen, yo, if
That's awesome. >> Looks like payroll cannot be processed. Um it says payroll scheduled for February 1st, 2026 cannot be pro cannot be processed due to company's current financial condition and that they are
financial condition and that they are reviewing their obligations. reviewing their obligations. um >> benefits um also are affected by this. Um
just wanted to be really really really quick >> assumptions or anything. This is just the in the the in the >> knowledge that I've been sent um by
>> this is this has hit everyone at this point. this one out to all all point. this one out to all all employees. chance. >> Bro, within a week now, we don't know
everything internally. I'm sure when all the smoke settles, we'll we'll get more info. >> But within a week, this happening is a f I thought, listen, I'm not going to say the game I thought it was in a great
state, but like I mean, it just went to Steam. It got more eyeballs on it and they're working on updates. Like I thought it was on its way. Like >> Jesus, >> for this to [ __ ] happen, bro. I I am
>> for this to [ __ ] happen, bro. I I am I am so I I can't believe it, bro. I am so I I can't believe it, bro. >> That's crazy, bro. charge are going to make their money. >> [ __ ]
>> Wow, man. >> No way. Over. Wow. What a hit to the MMO >> No way. Over. Wow. What a hit to the MMO RPG community, man.
Yeah, it's way too coincidental. One month later, those board members, >> You know what else, too, though? >> They're [ __ ] up people, bro. >> They're [ __ ] up people, bro. >> Steven is not going to be able to do
>> No, he's going to look like a artist. >> His name is tarnished forever. >> Man, wow, bro. >> I don't know if it's on him or not, or if maybe he really was trying to be a hero and save the game and be noble
>> No, bro. There's got to come a point though as a leader. >> Yeah. You got to take one. No, you got to figure things out. Like you don't you don't completely all hands off like and I don't know what was going on
internally. Like I don't but to get to the point where I'm [ __ ] done and like I'm deucing it and you guys better you guys better fix it and then call me
it. Like they called his bluff. They said, "You know what? Watch this [ __ ] down. And I'm sorry, as a leader, if I'm him right now, I'm on the phone with them trying to work this out. You're costing
10 plus years of work, hundreds of people their jobs. Like, you figure this out as a leader. You do it. You You do it. You figure it out. Begging right >> Right now, it's like, listen, I'm going to be honest. I was upset. I was pissed
off, but I want to see this thing through and I want to figure it out. We got to work things out together as a team.
importantly a leader, man. And it sucks. And it hurts. It really does hurt my I'm not even kidding, man. I love video games so much, but I love MMO RPGs. And to see MMO RPGs get hit like this, this is bad, man. This is bad news bears,
is bad, man. This is bad news bears, man. This is bad news, man. It's not a good look. And that poor guy, as much as I didn't love him, like he felt kind of off to me. Stephen Sharief, he was very passionate about that game. And
permanently. He will never be trustworthy again. Like, >> are you kidding me? >> are you kidding me? >> No, he's done.
No, not only when especially when they found out before this the way he made pyramid scheme anyway. I don't know if the board was doing something he to respect him for quitting. No, I think I would respect the man more for
it. You don't quit [music] 10 years 10 years of work. You cannot do that, >> This is >> And by the way, if by the way, he's been the head of the ship, we all know, for start to finish. So if he [ __ ] up as a
man and as a leader and owner of this whole situation, he has to figure it >> He has to. No one else. You don't just up and quit and leave and abandon everybody. No way. No way. You don't do
>> Yeah. At least give it a shot and then figure out how to navigate. >> You got to figure out how to work with the board. You have to figure that out >> 100%. >> Just up and leave, man. like show up to
the meeting not coked out and figure out how to freaking massage them into doing what you want to do. There's got to be a give and take angle there. Like he like for sure he had a say at some point in bringing these people along. He had a
>> No, it's not as bad as the day before. >> No, the day before is top level scam. This isn't that bad. This is just This is a tragedy. This is the biggest tragedy in gaming. I don't think it's a scam. It's just a tragedy. This is This
is one like literally a weekend [music] and the game is down. >> Ramp, you're right. But either way, he's got to he's got to figure out how to work with them and to kind of do what he wants to do.
>> By the way, you're right, Angry Steel. >> WoW having good, honest competition will of [ __ ] that'll make them chill. Well, why do you think the reason they've been the way it did and that made them [ __ ] wake up.
everybody. >> No, we don't know everything yet. We don't know everything yet. And we're going to know probably by Monday. We'll >> Bro, they just put out a post >> 48 hours
>> on the 29th saying that they they delivered a community article like from clearly outlines community issues, addressing them. Development update moved to February 13 and promises to
speak more on these issues then like this just happened within 48 hours. This >> Oh man, >> I can't I I'm my mind the players of the game and the employees the devs.
future looks like, guys. For Overwatch with Marvel Rivals, by the way. Yes. But better in the last year and a half because of Marvel Rivals. And that's a rocket path about layoffs. The game being
sold/taken. I stay firm on my prediction.
on this. >> Bro, I spent like 120. Maybe 180. I don't remember. But it was a lot of [ __ ] money. >> what he's saying. >> I'm not even going to read.
was a scam. Shout out to you, baby. Thank you, buddy. What I miss, uh, Ashes of Creation is fully getting shut down within 24 hours. So, what the [ __ ]
>> Also, you can't you can't [ __ ] on people for getting told a bunch of dreams of how this game is going to be the best game ever and buying into it. >> because MMOR RPG players, they're hungry, bro.
>> They're hungry. They're looking for the next best adventure. And >> yeah, they bought in and sure maybe there was some signs, but Nah, man. Nah, man. Nah. Steven's got to [ __ ] figure this out.
>> Believe it or not, these are These are my my glasses. my my glasses. >> You can't pitch this idea 10 years in of positivity coming out of this game to let it go like that. You can't do it.
>> Yeah. >> You don't just up and quit. Think of it You work through it for the kids. You figure it out and you move on. That's just life. People got beef with people all the time. Work ain't easy. But you
can't just up and leave this thing. You know, he's got to he's got to get on that phone, figure out a meeting, and hash the [ __ ] now. It's done. It's over. There's no figuring it out.
>> Done. >> He sold out to the entire community. I'm sorry. And I I think he was passionate, but as a man, you don't let that happen. You don't You got to figure it out. >> It's over now. He's
>> like, we're talking anywhere between 25 to 50 people their jobs. The real freeze. Uh, Ashes of Creation officially shut shutting down Monday. Oh, Chrono Odyssey. You're right, actually. And by the way, yes, this will make a lot
actually. Yo, Chrono Odyssey is the one who eats the best from this. I mean, you're right. And by the way, my plan I'm planning on making content on that and the alpha test they had not too long ago, the creator alpha, whatever. And
this may be a hot take. People didn't like it. I [ __ ] loved it as a fan. thought about? What about the people who were RMTing and Ashes? >> who love the game so much that they were buying gold and [ __ ] and ash? That
sucks. >> Oh, yo, that hurts. That hurts my heart Actually, anyone know about that? The new Archage. >> I had a friend who donated in the startup $3,000.
I told him could have just put that money on LeBron under FanDuel. That's [ __ ] crazy. >> That's nuts. They rugpulled. No, Rosa. Um, they had some major disagreement with the board, Steven, Sharief, and the
which I'm sure we're going to find out within the next 24- 48 hours. Just some more minor details. Not everything probably cuz they like to keep that under wraps. Um, and Steven Shrief said, "Yeah, I don't agree with this. I'm
leaving. I don't This is not ethically right for me and what I want for my MMO. I'm leaving." And then with that, they almost went on strike as a team and a So all the lead developers and the creators, they left as well, hoping that
they would budge. They did not budge. They completely said, "All right, you want to leave? [ __ ] this. We just made our profit from most likely from Steam. this before uh we're going to peace out before we start losing money again. And
[ __ ] about a game." >> Is now they don't have to pay the payroll that's due on February 1st. >> Oh, you're dirty. They're dirty. Whoever was a whoever was working with him was dirty. They play they play dirty.
>> Oh, Star Citizen's bad. You're right. >> That's sand in the eye type [ __ ] Yeah. >> Like nutshot sand in the eye. Like they're fighting dirty. >> Yeah, it's rough, boy. >> This This is bad. Am I crazy here for
thinking Steve and Sheree somehow someway needed to just figure this thing out? Like, how bad was the decision? Was it monetization practice? But also, you can't you can't let this happen within 24 hours.
>> Like, you have to figure it out. >> This is like this is Storm out of the room saying, "F you" type [ __ ] Like, like, what happened in that meeting? >> Was it was it It had to have been like any way for them to make more money like
guess. >> I don't know. I don't know. Something >> Something happened. Midnight Mane, Major Lock, they're both S tier. It just depends, man. That's just gameplay preference.
the board. Yeah. I mean, and by the way, he could easily be doing like damage board is and no one's going to give it like, you know, they're they're like faceless people, right? So, which by the way, that could come to light who they
are. But yeah, maybe he's doing damage control rug pull in a couple of years from now. Who know? I mean, we don't know. We're going to we're going to have to see in in in
>> Yeah. For him to basically take a Molotov cocktail to 10 years of work. It That's what I'm saying. The only thing I can think of is some sort of can think of is some sort of microtransaction or a major major
>> Maybe they wanted it to not be a PVP game and they wanted to add PvE. It knows [ __ ] So until then, >> within the next 48 hours, we'll have a next Wednesday show, we'll be able to talk about it in depth. Right now, it's
just that stupid Discord post where honestly it seems like he's trying to not look like a piece of [ __ ] >> Disaster. Uh the real phase 3, shout out to you. Welcome to the Comeback Kids. If you
you're on Twitch, let's get some Comeback Kids icon. Welcome the new comeback kid to the chat, man. Show some love, guys, to your fellow new community members. Show love. Got to show love to new new members of part of the team,
man. Man, this is sad. This This really makes me depressed. I'm This is gonna so many real reasons to get depressed, but man, this really I don't know why it's really making me sad. Is that weird to say? Is that cringe to say, chat?
>> Um, >> it's sad because it weird. >> It's bad for the the genre. It's bad for the MMO genre. Like we like we were just saying as WoW players, you want other games to be good
because then it forces Blizzard to be better, right? You know, so that's that's the problem. That's that's a problem, too, man. You want to see WoW be its best? Let the Riot MMO come out and take half the player base.
>> Yeah. They'll wake up fast, boy. >> And they'll they'll freaking get to the way, you know what ends up happening is both games have to fight fire with other and that's good for everyone. >> That is the best case scenario.
>> So you know this game not coming out now it's like one less competitor for Blizzard to have to worry about. So >> I wonder how many people that wanted to play Ashes of Creation will go back to >> maybe classic they go back to. They're
not they're not >> those people are playing like the Star they're they're sandbox >> lucky if you're playing Ash or classic Crimson Desert maybe. >> Yeah, they ain't touching anything
retail Wow. >> I've lost a lot of hype for Riots MMO. I >> Is it because you don't haven't heard anything about it yet? >> We just We literally haven't heard even an announcement.
you're right. That's another one. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't know. >> [ __ ] bro. And the MMO space is [ __ ] man.
>> Oh, believe me, Empty Visual. He was probably paying himself back with the money that was coming in somehow. >> Thank you, The Real Faze for the man. I appreciate it. I love that profile picture of the family, too.
Blizzard anymore. Xbox is going to end up screwing us all. I don't know. I has done nothing but become better. So, >> by the way, the game's been nothing but >> by the way, the game's been nothing but a walking W the last minimum year. dense
when wait 9 >> Oh girl. >> Yeah, because Dragonfly was 10. We're in 11. Yeah. Since 9.1.5, the game has been
doing nothing but go the right direction. because there was no real competition. >> 100% Canadian. That's I mean that's business. >> This makes me so sad in every industry,
bro. Man, guys, this sucks, man. Like, I wish I wish I got to experience like, let me like how was that experience back then of the golden age of MMOs? Like, like where like literally every year there's
like four or five banger MMOs just coming out to at least try. Like, I never got to experience that. Well, that's because WoW came out and it made so much money that it made all of these companies want to try to
>> to try to kind of get in on it. And then they realize, yo, it's hard out here. ass game. And also, they were trying to rush these games out. Yeah. Believe it or not, Ghoul, me and Lance played a lot of City of Heroes growing up. I was born
of City of Heroes growing up. I was born in 99. Lance was born in '98. So, we got a little taste of City of Heroes when >> Also, whenever we took breaks from WoW, City of Heroes was like the game. >> Yeah, that was our main secondary game.
Like, that was our alt character for an MMO. and then that and then it went into Star Wars Republic. So those were like our big in DCO. Yeah. >> So like we played our fair share but like you
know as kids we didn't know like guild community exploration endame content raiding professions and crafting and events and we didn't know anything. It wasn't fair. It wasn't fair. And I feel [ __ ] robbed. I feel robbed. And I was
really hoping Ashes could give me a a real taste of classic MMO RPG feel like EverQuest or Star Wars Galaxies or City of Heroes or or any of the like old
really critically like young in conception but early in release MMOs Like I never >> I never had that and I wish I did. And
great, but I beat that dead horse 20 times. Like, why would I want to play that game again? I'm good, bro. I don't need it in my life. What's going to be the next new MMO? Um, as of right now, the only thing I could see is when Final
Fantasy, inevitably after this expansion it's going on, >> releases a really good one, that's going to force uh Blizzard to kind of kick it into high gear. Uh, Guild Wars 3, we don't even have an official announcement
that's coming out yet. Yo, what was your guys' first MMO that made you fall in love with the genre? Just out of curiosity, uh, Star Wars Galaxy was my first played that game since early closed beta. Wow, that's incredible.
Yeah, that really made me feel like, wow, EverQuest Shadow Bane. Wow. City wow, EverQuest Shadow Bane. Wow. City Heroes was mine. Ragnarok Online. I don't even know what 1995 the beta is. What am I miss? What did Blizzard stay?
stream where we got disconnected, but this one's been mostly about Ashes of Creation getting shut down. Uh, Johnny, >> Star Wars the Old Republic was your >> Wow. Dark hate. That's crazy. >> Oh, so you're you're kind of new.
>> Ever Quest was my first play. Wow. >> Crazy. You know, you know, uh, Star Wars >> Wow. >> I I I think about that game all the time, by the way.
the other night. We were playing that game. We were literally playing it had or galaxies. >> Ruins of magic. I know that game. >> follows. >> Yeah, the follows and everything, man.
That is insane. >> Ashon's Call. That was also Reckful's uh >> you know. Great MMO. >> Wildstar was a great one. >> Star. Yeah, I I touched Wild Star a little bit with Lance, but we were so
hooked on WoW that like any MMO that came out during that time, we like were like, "Yeah, right. We're going to go [ __ ] play Wildstar. You crazy." Like, no. WoW is king. Like, >> yeah. Um, Voltor, the thing is as a WoW
appreciate, by the way, I love that profile picture. That's really [ __ ] content. Thank you for coming to the stream. That is so cool, man. Lance? Sorry. >> No. Uh Liliana was saying how
for 8 years and as a WoW player, it was so easy to get into SW tour because it's gameplaywise it's identical. And then also it's like >> Yeah. I I if that's exactly why we loved it. I mean, man, I remember watching
those trailers with you, man. Best cinematic trailers trailers in the business by far. There's There's >> no Blizzard does the best cinematic, but theirs are good, too. But Blizzard's bad. Yo, you better watch your mouth.
>> Bro, some of the Diablo trailers are so good that it's I would just watch that forever. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. One did those cinematic trailers like Star Wars: The Old Republic did.
they released three in one go. Remember that? >> Three separate trailers. >> The best cinematic trailer. Like I ever I could watch those trailers right now and get hyped as [ __ ] for that game.
>> They're very good. >> They're the best in the biz. Nothing >> Hot ball is dope. >> Hot ball. Yeah, I agree. What do you guys think? Did you guys think Sword Swtor's trailers were the best or Diablo
crazy. >> Oh, that's what I'm saying. Peak. Peak. >> That was badass. >> What do you mean, bro? What about what
about when uh uh they're on the ship and like it's uh what's her face with her master fighting Malgusan? >> Yeah, Malgus and his master and they fight and they 2v2. Oh my god, it's it's peak. There's nothing better. I get
Literally, I get goosebumps thinking about it. It's the best in the business, bar none. Sorry. If they ever did something like that, I'm there. Like, I'm there, by the way. And I don't want to sound like a a con artist, but [ __ ]
I'd probably drop WoW for a minute to just full on SWTOR. Like if they made another update to Star Wars Republic, like let's say a brand new MMO again, like they canned this new MMO. You >> know, the problem now is that when
you're leveling, everything's get one shot and like there's no new raid classic version. >> Warhammers is pretty good. I I'll admit, but the problem with Warhammer is they never Warhammer does this thing
sometimes where like they'd rather massproduce than just dive make people love it. Like they rely on their fandom and people who are really dedicated to Warhammer to get their games rather than really try to pitch
>> Okay, you're right. You're I'll give you that. I'll give you that. They are. that personally. I don't like Final Fantasy. I like the Final Fantasy story
it a real go and I don't understand. >> I like the lore fantasy a lot. I played 14 a pretty good >> my point of what I'm saying is that it's so easy to love swotor because it's Star Wars. It's top two IPs ever. Like
there's like that and Lord of the Rings in terms of film and entertainment are up. Like that's it for me. Like that's it better characters than what? >> Debatable. SWTO tour maybe or Final
Fantasy. It's not a fault, it's a preference. >> Did you know Final Fantasy is canon in Star Wars? Specifically Final Fantasy 10. I did not know that. >> What?
That's a thing. What the hell? We're just waiting for the code tour remake. announced that two years ago, three years ago, that weird trailer. one? Shadows of >> I don't even remember. But they they did
announce that a minute ago. >> Eternal Throne trailers all went hard, >> That's true. By the way, >> we need to run it back on SWOR, man. One day, maybe we will as a community. Maybe if Midnight dies down a bit, slows down.
where we all go on there. That'd be [ __ ] fun. Spear is in Star Wars. They love Final Fantasy 10 so much they wanted to hide it. That's crazy. Wow. What's Bungie again? >> Halo.
>> and Destiny. >> Sure, they do pretty good stuff. Just course I love Halo. Halo is fantastic. >> Cinematics are good. >> Starcraft is good.
>> Diablo cinematics are some of the best. >> Diablos are good, too. Yeah. anything. >> So, I'll jump into Eve. Oh, boy. >> Get your spreadsheets ready. >> Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Shaggy, rough,
man. Man, what a tough day. What a [ __ ] tough day, man. Let me What a [ __ ] tough day, man. Let me refresh. See if there's any uh refresh. See if there's any uh wow. So sad, bro.
What was your favorite SW tour race? Lance really loved the um guys with the horns. What were they called? >> No. No. My the ratati. sometimes. >> But no, I like the the ratataki. Them
>> But no, I like the the ratataki. Them bald bastards are beautiful. Um, for me personally, favorite race that's so hard. I just like the basic human bounty hunter. I I don't know. I'm so vanilla. I loved bounty hunters gameplay in that
game. It was so [ __ ] money. And I love the class fantasy, man. In my opinion, it was money. My favorite character in that game was my light side Sith Juggernaut. Full light sky, bro.
Sith warrior story, bro. >> Oh, let's see what Bellor said. Looks message from the founder and creative director. Uh-oh. Well, here's the news. Creation. Yo, wait. Let me do my impersonation of [ __ ] Bellar.
>> He goes, "Well, here's the news. Ash is a creation having problems with Steven to discuss." >> That's crazy. >> Uh, the Imperial Agent story line was great. Went through that as a sniper and
>> That first chapter twist was goated in the Imperial Agent story line, by the way. Very solid. Spot on. Hell yeah, I know. Cuz I've heard it [ __ ] a bazillion times. >> Eight out of 10 would watch you do a
bell video of impersonation. >> Yo, what if I just put on the wig and everything and I green like I cut him out and steal his background and then green screen it here. >> You think if you sent it to me
>> that was remotely that was not remotely pretentious enough. Yo, Liliana is so funny, bro. Natural D. >> Oh [ __ ] Yo, what's up, babe? How we doing? Yo, natural. Did you just hear Ash is done, dude? They just imploded.
Oh, no. Jedi Knight was the best story. Ah, you just want to be the hero. You just want to play Nights of the Old Republic [ __ ] 3. Jedi Knight was fine. Yeah, it was it was good. >> I mean, you knew what you were getting
>> Yeah, and that's what it was good, but it just got repetitive. It's every planet was there's a world destroying weapon here. You got to destroy it. >> All right. Yo, and I was I was a twelic. >> I was a a what a sentinel, right?
>> Dual saber sentinel. Bro, that [ __ ] was pretty cool. I'm not going to lie. >> Yeah. And I will say what was really cool is they they made you as like a Sith bad guy for a couple years or something and you were like evil.
cool like >> And then you find out you get Don't you get captured by I don't remember that one. Captured by Revan at some point, right? Well, I believe so. And they they sort of like
do this mind thing on you where they like brainwash you, I believe. But then you figure it out and realize it. And then the homeboy that's evil, he gets something. I I believe or something like that. Maluca Muraku.
>> Yeah, those those blind bastards. >> Lance also really loved the green race. What were they? You [ __ ] loved making a smuggler of that guy. Oh my god. It of the green guy. >> Yeah, I like that. What were the green
guys? I don't remember. The emperor gets you though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I liked Twix smugglers, too. >> Yeah. With the hat and the pull out of >> I don't know why. I love the way the twelix looked when they had the freaking
>> Yeah. That [ __ ] was so gangster. I remember I bought the store item one >> To get that look. And then I played them up until like level 13. Never played. Gunslinger with the freaking the trench coat in the hat.
Yeah. Um >> rip Ashes of Creation. Forgotten, but now also gone. Ash of Creation is cooked. [ __ ] those who backed it. Damn. >> Why do they have to freaking catch Strays just for paying money?
from the V. Oh, gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. It was It was a decent story. It was just very vanilla. Like I knew what was coming. like my favorite was I really like the light
then I >> I like the Imperial Agent one where you're where you [music] betray the Empire, right? I I remember you playing that one. >> I like the light side agent.
Star Wars the Old Republic >> and I liked >> No Valkory the other name? Ten. No, I thought it started with an E. thought it started with an E. >> And I liked um
>> I'll look it up right now. >> Smuggler. All species the chis. >> No, he's talking about the name of the um the master.
Cathar to nautilon nautilon cyborg zybra the mir the mir mirilon
was a great story. Ash the creation is very honoric name Ash the creation is very honoric name for a video game, bro. [ __ ] right off. content. >> Oh, really?
>> Yeah, he makes great content, >> man. [music] Poor Ashes of Creation >> I'll just go to Crimson Desert. That game's actually coming out. Sith Warrior 4 playthroughs. That's
>> That's insane. Agent and Light Side Warrior two. Yeah, Lance loves light. Warrior two. Yeah, Lance loves light. played a I played a a a Sith marauder full dark and it just got kind of annoying where it's like everywhere you
go you're just murdering everyone. >> Yeah, I did the same thing on a Sith assassin >> and I know it's so cliche but I was >> bad >> and I Yeah, I mean you're just
electrocuting people every two seconds, frying them to death. Got a little stale. Yeah, it's like >> and I don't like being a bad guy. So, yeah, I love I love the idea of being on the Imperial side and then just doing it
the Imperial side and then just doing it light side. than the Jedi Knight story. >> That's crazy. Um, in some cases, but some pretty dark [ __ ] >> Wow. Wow.
>> These poor people do podcasts just on ashes. Oh man. >> Oh man.
Sad, bro. Fortunately, this will be our last podcast. Just like Phoenix rising from the ashes but instead rise a new. A few years back, many of you expressed concerns.
announce was culmination with those efforts. Our heart's glad to everyone efforts. Our heart's glad to everyone had lost their jobs.
they would have kept milking it for longer and then just fired everybody >> because of corporate and financial pressure. survived. >> They literally said it's being shut down
effective February 2nd. That's in two days, my man. That [ __ ] company is done for. And they're going to make their bread bounce. What a disaster. What a disaster, man.
Sun sunk almost 180 hours in December. Brother, what are you doing every day? Brother, what are you doing every day? >> And it's since December.
That's minimum 3 hours a day, Lance. I still Does that make it any better? Are game? >> If I was a single man, I could I could easily spend 3 hours a day playing World of Warcraft if I was a single man. After
work every night, I could easily put 3 hours into the game and be very happy. hours into the game and be very happy. So, yeah, it's not that hard to do. Get home from work at >> All right. Hello, Jello.
>> Okay. I mean, I don't know what you want me to say. It's not that hard to do. I'm just saying that if I was to come home from work, eat dinner, and play the game, it's not that hard to do 3 hours a day. As
he fully funded the game himself, uh I think he kickstarted it and really put like hundreds of thousands to get it going, but additional funding of course has off >> elsewhere.
pull the moment they were sell. Okay, bro. We'll see. I'm finally making a firm prediction. Ash's Creation developer Intrepid Studios will fall before the end of the year [music] 2026.
Yo, he said that January 27th. Yo, this guy is a [ __ ] god. No shot. He said that here before this post.
and less than two weeks after it [ __ ] the bed. [ __ ] my life. [laughter] >> So what happens? Does Steam give these people refunds now or what?
>> Dude, I don't Dude, there's no way Steam would allow something like this. All would allow something like this. All right. This ain't right.
Nope. Ste Steam won't give refunds. That's insane, bro. >> I mean, that's a little bit that's a little bit hyperbolic. MMOs are done. Chill out, >> dude. I don't know. Is the MMO genre
>> dude. I don't know. Is the MMO genre cooked? Ashes was? And Sky, didn't I say this forever? Dope. They want to do too much
talking about? >> They're adding in They're trying to add in features that are supposed to be expansion features well down the line in >> We're going to do naval combat and we're going to do a country system and you're
going to have someone wipe your ass for you. Obviously, it was overkill and it was like supposed to be the living [ __ ] breathing MMO ever. Everyone knows that. But like there's got to come
something out. This is good for WoW community. better for the WoW community is this game comes out and is good so it makes >> Igree. >> This is bad for the genre as a whole.
>> I agree. I Having no competition breeds complacency. to actually pop off. >> Okay, bro. Any other lies you want to think >> they're going to pop off?
about you have new expand these nuts on your head, >> No, bro. You [ __ ] shut up. >> Shut up, bro. >> Like, no. Like, Final Fantasy is your pitch. [ __ ] right off.
from the top spot for even a minute. It's the only game to ever include the best company some unfortunately the company of all the Someone say it's the best the inclusion illusion of what Ash's creation is. Yeah, because like it
sounds ridiculous. Is it any Does anyone think it's gonna happen? where Final Fantasy was the number one MMO. time and Classic WoW came out. What else? You got anything else? Anything
to throw out there to the >> So, why couldn't they make another great high gear? >> Anyone agreeing with this >> Anyone? >> All right, bro.
>> All right, bro. >> And you're bad for the show. Get out. >> Anyone else? Like, do we actually think Final Fantasy is about to dominate again? This [ __ ] ain't happening. >> No way, bro. Lance is trolling. There's
no way, >> bro. I'm not saying it's for sure going >> but like very easily, >> bro. >> If popping off was good for Listen, I will say right now, I wish Final Fantasy
[ __ ] killed it. I wish it did. And I wish WoW had some steep steep >> Wait, are you trying to tell me you don't think that they could pull off >> That's what I'm saying. >> No, no, no, no, no. You said pop off and
That's what you said. >> No, I'm not. I don't mean dethrone. I'm talking about pop off and make another good expansion to make be like, yo, we >> Okay, sure. I could buy into that. Okay, sure. But we're talking about to the
level of where Shadowlands was at 6 years ago. No, because that could that that was a perfect storm of woow >> really they ever made at the same time. >> I said that's exactly what I said.
>> Okay, then we're arguing about nothing then because I that's what I believe and you believe it too. But do I think Final Fantasy can hit a good expansion? Absolutely. They've been dominating for a while. They can very easily pop off
with a sick expansion that makes Blizzard like, "Yo, we lost a million up. >> Sure. Sure. Absolutely. But I'm talking about competition levels so goddamn steep where like, yo, ring the bells.
Like, we have a problem. Code red. Time to dial in. That's what I'm talking about. They're not. They will never be to that level of a game. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I doubt it. They knew both. So, you have to play
through all the bad to get to the supposed good. Is that a thing? I heard I just know the story is phenomenal. Do we ever worry about WoW being a bit too that made it so awesome for 15 years? >> Uh, no. Uh,
>> I'm going to be real. What What do you mean by feminine? What's feminine about >> I mean, no. I mean, they're they definitely, you know, there's a lot of female characters. >> Okay, but like feminine is a serious
like word to throw out there. The [music] game is feminine. But it does sound like you are quoting Asmin Gold. So, isn't that a weird thing >> I've never heard that before with Wow. I've heard furry and I've heard the G
word and I've heard woke feminine. I've cinematic. >> Yeah, but they're they're putting >> Yeah, but they're they're putting together a cinematic showing
their brand new feature. Like, it's supposed to be What do you want? War to the [ __ ] are we talking about? Like, what are we what are we possibly rogue kicking some ass. >> I thought it was perfect. You showed a
badass Aussie Osborne song. >> The only thing that I would have liked >> gaslight me. >> They could have easily you, bro. >> They could have easily put an undead
>> in the in the Aussie thing and like had his undead sher. Yeah, but you know what they did instead? They added a female blood also. adding a literal baking just the overall less conflict. >> No, no, no. There's still conflict,
him, but yeah, there's still conflict. sitting here saying they're adding cosmetics to the game makes it feminine. No, bro. Now, are some of the cosmetics goofy? 100%. And I'm on their ass 100%
made dedicated videos about like, yo, what are we doing here? But are we going because they have trading posts featuring cosmetics and transmogs and then housing that makes WoW feminine? Come on, bro. What we you know you want
Come on, bro. What we you know you want to know what makes wow feminine is like
computer. Am I live? Does anyone know if I'm still live? Testing. I'm checking. My phone died. Hello. No, we're frozen. I'm live testing. Holy [ __ ] This is why I don't
get angry on stream. I almost broke my computer backing out of my mouth. Sorry. Anyways, what I was saying is like one thing I will agree with is that the characters aren't the way I would like them. Like there's no Varian Ren level
of strength of or badasserie. Like like I would love I would love if you made I would love I would love if you made Arator or Anduin finally step up Anduin finally step up and be a [ __ ] just badass like just leader of the alliance
badass like just leader of the alliance like I'm the man that I agree with. there's cosmetics and housing that makes no sense feminine. True. The people who anyway. >> Well also so what does it affect you at
>> Well also so what does it affect you at all? Well, also I think I think overall for a reason to hate on WoW because it's that ex-girlfriend conflict. Like it's day that they enjoyed. It's not the way they want it. So they're going to look
>> These people like they don't care about the story. You didn't care about the it now. I know I'm a fan of your channel, but if you look at the overall fighting and more about harmony and unity. You're, by the way, you're right.
But I will say this, the reason it's about unity, harmony is not the right word. Unity and and relying on each other and and group through a story for 20 years, there has to be bigger worldending threats. How do
you resolve world ending threats? You have to partner up and group up with every man it takes to dominate and figure out how to win this war. They did it in Legion. Is was Legion bad? Did was it bad that we fought the Legion lance
and defeated Gul'dan and Sargeras? Is that was that bad? Was that about unity? much. >> That's weird, right? That's funny. >> No, but it's feminine to >> been a main character of the story since
forever. >> But it's Harmony. It's feminine. >> Talion's still here. My point is is that like
little bit. Like don't get me wrong, there are things with Retail WoW I don't toward the route of like it's a little soft for sure. I would be a biased liar if I said otherwise. For sure. There's a bunch of things I don't like in that
direction. But also >> giving people transmog and cosmetics doesn't make a game lame or like not fun. That's just that's what player >> Well, Gibby, I don't >> I don't think better writer like better
anymore. I think we're done with that [ __ ] >> I agree. It's cotton seeing main characters cry over internal guilt and sorrow. It Yeah, it sucks. But also, we do have to remember, hold on, what
Andowin actually went through, the dude cried one time. Okay, like what the dude actually did and what happened to him was [ __ ] awful. Was terrible. If went down in Shadowlands and what he did, it was horrible, horrible,
>> if you dove into lore too, >> but also >> crime, >> you have to tell a story. You have to years. >> Big feminine.
war all the time. >> Yeah. No, LFG, it's difficult. And >> No, >> no, I'm just joking. [laughter] I guess I'm saying dragon flight feminine equals soft is more what I'm saying. Um I mean
soft in what way though? Like >> can't Warcraft Warcraft. >> I you know I really hate that that line of thinking. I think in my personal opinion and I want to know your guys' your guys' take
lines to feel like they matter again. Okay, cool. This is great. Here's my here's my question to you. Let's say we do Horde vs. Alliance, another expansion. Let's just say it's it's another Battle for Azeroth season
it's another Battle for Azeroth season 1. Who actually gives a flying [ __ ] about like Horde versus Alliance again? We've done it 30 times. And the problem you dive into something for too long, whether it be anime or a story like Star
Wars, like narratives have to change. You have to adapt and you have to you have to change or things get stale and predictable. If things get stale and predictable, it's worse than taking that said risk or just playing it too safe on
guys. This is going to be a great board meeting and someone's going to get accidentally killed. It's going to be a setup, but there's someone bigger at play making them fight. Is are we going to do that again? Like again? Like that
[ __ ] is lame. I'm over that. It's boring. Like like are we going to get upset that the game's narrative is changing after 20 years? Like things a 21-year-old game things have to
evolve. Across faction battle would be cool. Yeah, it would be. But like from a story perspective, it's boring to me. Like to me it's boring. Like I don't know. Like in that regard, I'm
I'm good. Um, anyways, I'm saying the overall vibe is very soft, very Disney. I mean, if you want to feel that way, that's that's like at the end of the day, it's it's good. Like, you could feel that way.
Personally, I don't Disney is a very strong word. Is it softer than of course strong word. Is it softer than of course the early 2000s of like peak RPG design and like toughness? 100%. I'd be a liar if I said otherwise. But you have to
>> the direction of gaming has also changed too. Like like does it always have to be all about being badass 24/7 and a tough guy? Like >> don't get me wrong, I like that. And I do think WoW is missing that right now.
We're missing a strong badass male character. I agree. But is everything revolving around that 24/7? It's kind of stale and it's kind of exhausting. fight. >> I think so. And I also look pretty sick.
>> He's coming. >> And I like Conan the Barbarian, too. But I'm not going to fand him over Conan the Barbarian every time and be like, "Yo, let's do it." Like, the Disney argument
WoW before it came out looking Disney. time. [laughter] I mean, everyone everyone rags. Oh, Illan is definitely coming back >> in general cuz it's it's the thing. It's
always be. >> You know, Kevin, it's it's hard to even bring Malfurion in because when you bring him in and you actually let him be any conflict >> like irrelevant because of how powerful
>> like irrelevant because of how powerful he actually is. testing it was uh and thank you for the prime. Wow. Uh
it was the one with dawn light felt pretty good and it's very trivial and >> I like the additional Thank you for the sub by the way, Jake. Uh I also like um the hammer of light templar. That was fun. Only rotationally I like that
better. Twitch frozen. Yo, are we frozen again? Yo, my my I'm cooked. I'm absolutely cooked. It's just it like my like I don't know
It's just it like my like I don't know what Xfinity's done to my computer. Xfinity is messing and now we're back. Okay. Video only frozen. This is crazy. but want to stay PC which is fair. I love why I love retail. I'm saying
last three expansions. I think we could agree. I I disagree with you and I think it's because maybe you don't know the story and maybe yes some of the trailers >> softer for sure since dragon flight the cinematic trailer
>> the one trailer from dragon flight where they talked at the very end but for the >> not really at all >> I don't I think in a way it has shifted >> and medicine is officially like back in full swing so let's let's see what
freaking >> I think midnight I think midnight It's the true test because it's the Empire Strikes Back setting of the saga. We're about to see what the number two point in the saga will be like. And this is
the point where story is about to go down. Not only that, apparently there's people that are going to be dying this expansion. I don't know what that means. anything in the story cuz I don't want to hear anything. But didn't Dragonfly
give some pretty badass characters? >> I run was pretty dope. Farac was pretty dope. Uh, we got Rathon was there and his and his brother Sibellion. Those his and his brother Sibellion. Those were two cool dudes, right? Like, no.
were two cool dudes, right? Like, no. When when was the last main badass male There's no other carrier character like that since Varian's death. Who else? Who >> We still have Terallion in the game. >> Sure, but he's never used. And I love,
by the way, Terallion's my favorite character ever. Anduin Anduin had some character ever. Anduin Anduin had some pretty dope uh cut scenes in >> But let's let's hold on a second. Don't sound crazy. You're going to say
>> Yo, he jumped off the ship. >> Okay, but don't say something crazy. Don't you don't want to bring up something you'll regret later. >> saying didn't have cool scenes. >> I never said he didn't, but let's not
>> You're trying to make it something I'm not saying. I'm saying >> Okay. I just want to be on the same page. Greyman, no man. No. Lost man. And page. Greyman, no man. No. Lost man. And no. And has actually the potential to be
probably the coolest character in World of Warcraft with how he's brought up. By the way, I think when he became king, how old was he, Lance? 20. >> He was a teenager.
>> So to be able to have all that thrown on you in the middle of a [ __ ] war is crazy. and then go through what he went through leading into the Horde vs Alliance and then diving into Shadowlands. What a [ __ ] nightmare. I
>> What a disaster. And we're getting we're going crazy cuz he cried cuz he he he >> the jailer. >> The jailer. And then he was forced and
by the way, not subconsciously, he was visually seeing it and feeling it and emotionally feeling it, killing people that he loved and people that he wanted to help truly. But then secretly, for some reason, a part of him low-key
enjoyed killing those people. That's why he hates himself and that he has no now. That's why he lost the life for so long and left for a couple years because of that happening. So, he had so much [ __ ] up internal like eternal [ __ ]
going on like oh what a nightmare. And then his dad came to him too like oh my god it's horrible horrible story. And like, yeah, okay, he [ __ ] cried. Like, let this [ __ ] go. Like, damn. Like, are we not allowed to at least
shed a tear, dude? This [ __ ] sucks. Like, the man went through so much [ __ ] seven years ago. I think that's the wrong think that's wrong for a game That's [ __ ] lame to say. World of Warcraft is geared toward men. What the
>> no, that's ridiculous. >> But it's geared towards everyone. Don't that. That's stupid. That's some max [ __ ] to say. >> You're bringing up [ __ ] that it's like once again people don't
>> Is it not? No. It's geared toward players who love World of Warcraft and Azeroth. It's not geared toward men. What a ridiculous thing to say. No, >> I mean, whether it is or isn't, I think at the end,
toward men. Its design is >> I don't think it's geared towards anyone in particular. It's geared for Yeah, it's geared for everyone, but also geared for people and lovers of Azeroth, >> bro. You're coping. I I don't know, man.
I just think you're just kind of like >> now you're arguing. You're It feels like you're spitting out buzzwords to like >> I don't even know. >> But like it's just it's so extreme. Your takes are It's just you're like saying
>> But it's not even that. You're just spitting out like Asmin Gold takes one >> Which is cool. weird. But um so many girls and women >> What do you know about the story of the game?
>> Talking about content creators that I know. Are women not allowed to play WoW? Apparently not. It's not geared WoW is not geared toward females at all apparently. I mean that's so [ __ ] crazy to say or I don't even know what
field. I don't even want to talk about this anymore. Like I don't agree with your take anymore. And I'm not trying to sound like a jerk off, but I don't care to talk about that take anymore. It's just weird. Like, what a weird thing to
I don't know. I don't know. Beyond the point though, I will I will say I will say this. The one thing I will agree on about this last conversation before I end it all is that there hasn't been a strong male lead for a long time. And I
do think World of Warcraft desperately needs someone to step up and be be like the man of the Alliance or the Horde. I don't care who it is. Like, don't get me wrong, I love the characters that are in play right now between Zalat and Yria
and and everything going on with them. Like, I do. I genuinely do. I enjoy the Tallalian. I think it's going to be Erator. >> I think I'm scared. I'm scared they're going to try to make Talion like a
zealot bad guy in a way to make you maybe not love him as much. >> I'm more I would be more scared that he someone's going to stand up to him or scared of that. >> No, that would be a very cool thing to
>> Him dying would be more scary. >> I don't want him to die. I don't know. I don't know. I I I'm I'm scared for that. Bring back Gash. Yeah, he was a [ __ ]
Bring back Gash. Yeah, he was a [ __ ] knockout, man. He was cool. Um the Horde should probably go back to having a warchief. Um warchief. Um not sure.
presence of Horde and Alliance 2. It's cool, but once again, from a story beat, like raw story beat perspective, it's just it's been overdone a dozen times. And at this point, for me, it's boring.
Like, we beat that dead horse into a pulp, bro. I'm good. >> Scaler, I think Terallion is just a little bit too like blinded by the >> Yeah. >> And that could end up being
>> his greatest downfall. Not >> maybe trying to say that over 60% of the player base is men. I don't know. I don't know. I I'm not trying to bring that up again or egg LFG on. That's >> and probably will work together and
cool. >> That'd be an interesting >> if it leads to Erator becoming a badass. Most games are made >> Yeah, more men play video games. You're not wrong. And I agree with you. But I'm
I'm not going to sit here and even think for a second the designers are trying to it clear. You know that retail has way more players than classic, right? >> He said this is why classic is booming. I just I do
>> classic is booming. My [ __ ] swamp. >> I do just want to make that clear. Like >> that retail has way more players. to make sense. Anyways, I'm excited for midnight. Yeah, me too. No, listen.
Overall, with everything coming in Midnight, I I'm like I was really going to one up The War Within for me personally, but like everything I've loved about The War Within, they're just advancing into a 2.0 like state. Yeah.
Like everything is improving drastically in my opinion. Everything that I've loved about The War Within retail. Like I couldn't be more excited for for an and ability pruning, which I think has done wonders for the game. So, even for
PvP, like who to bang, which I'm very, very excited for. Is anyone going to be PvPing this expansion? Are you going to be I'm going to try I'm going to try PvPing. I do
know that. But MOP 3's had more rank one spots than retail this season. So, in other words, the miniame of PvP had more players in MOP than retail. That's fine. count. >> Thanks, man. Really good to know. those
three PvP, >> myself included. Nice. Nice way to just in MOP. That means you're a very good player. player. >> That's pretty cool, man.
raid bosses. Yeah, I think that's also a really cool way to bring back that classic feel by adding a one raid boss like mid-season out of nowhere. I think that [ __ ] is awesome. So, is everyone running stock UI or running LVUI? I'm
just running straight up vanilla like base. Um, my goal is, yeah, my goal is, uh, at least for launch, 100% no add-ons. I don't want to risk anything breaking on launch day and then right before Raid try to figure out.
>> Games that are geared toward men are NBA 2K, Madden, Call of Duty, Halo. Yeah, 2K, Madden, Call of Duty, Halo. Yeah, that makes more sense. An MMO RPG that I'm sorry, you've made some good takes, but there are some I don't agree with,
and that [ __ ] is that was a clown show of a take in my opinion. You guys do a good job of half reading. Uh, I maybe dabble if the guild gets groups together dabble if the guild gets groups together in PvP. Let's get it. Let's [ __ ] go.
>> Yo, if anyone's aware of what I did there, >> That's crazy. >> LFG might genuinely jump out of his keyboard at me right now. I'm not even kidding. Blizzard UI is crashing my
I haven't had any >> because I deleted all my add-ons and I have not had any errors or nothing. >> Yeah, I haven't haven't at all. Shout out to Lily. Um I don't know though. I'm going to be
add-ons. >> I mean I just know [laughter] >> I mean I just know [laughter] >> you're welcome for 15. you on some things. I'm being serious. on some I'm I'm not I am memeing
point where it's like a disagreement match. It is what it is. We >> Games needs to George RR Martin some legacy characters like uh Yeah. And by the way, so what that would do is killing those characters off would add
weight to the expansion and make it feel like like they tried to do that. They >> I watch I I respect what you guys do genuinely.
with Doran at the start of the war within and like yeah it was a big deal within and like yeah it was a big deal but like no one died so I'm like okay so >> some of those NPCs died. >> Yeah bro those MC
>> I like to at least use plumber. Yeah me too. I I love that add-on. It's very reinstall. Perfect time to purge the folders. Huh. A good idea. >> I mean I have I literally have nothing downloaded right now. I deleted
>> Oh, >> just for the sake of I'm not going to need it while I'm leveling anyway, bro. >> So, I'm going all naughty. >> They did that in Legion for sure. I
remember some re Yo, that [ __ ] was great. Legion. >> Yeah. Well, they started out >> they started. But guess what? We all remember the launch of Legion because they killed off Vulg and Varian, right?
And I don't think they should do it in the beginning because I think that's just like, okay, we're really trying to go for the Legion effect here. But like maybe after the first raid, someone should die or or during the story
campaign. Yo, what if in the middle when you're like 85, they just kill off you're like 85, they just kill off someone big out of nowhere? >> That would be cra like what if you're you're you're [ __ ] doing like um
you're in Zolaman and they just kill off boom. I whoever I don't know I don't >> I mean it's I don't know. I I think having some weight to things where happen. Like this is going to sound crazy but like [ __ ] Walking Dead.
They did pretty good at just like like anyone can die anytime. random episodes. >> Yeah. Like some random [ __ ] like definitely on >> like that [ __ ] was crazy. So like if
they had that sort of vibe, Game of Thrones only kill people off in finales. Like so like if they character deaths don't hit the same after Shadowlands Afterlife really. >> Well, I mean you're still like those
>> I offer up Magy. That's crazy. >> So like we're able to travel back and forth cuz we never actually died. Sylvanas would be able to I think travel back and forth cuz she never died in the real world. She just traveled there,
real world. She just traveled there, >> right? So if you die, you're still like your ass is still grass. >> Yeah. Remember when you thought Eddard Stark was the main charact? Yeah. Yeah. >> Poor Boramir. Can't catch a [ __ ]
break, bro. >> What a legend he was and his son. Uh um >> Rob Stark. Yeah, >> he was my favorite character. Rob Stark interact with them? Well, they we won't be able to interact with the new
be in a new version of the Shadowlands which we can't get to which means Yeah, of everything. Shadowland should have never existed. Take that Magny offer and I raise you a chromy. [laughter] The Red Wedding. Yeah. You watch the new
going to probably binge it. >> A Night in the Seven Kingdoms or whatever. Yeah, I heard it was >> It's Duncan Egg. That's Duncan Egg >> from the lady who wrote it cuz I'm pretty sure it's a girl. She said
they're going to go through this person's whole life and then they're the kid. So, I just want to be clear for anyone who knows that story. Uh, House of the Dragons is 200 years before Game of Thrones and this is 100 years before,
right? I have no idea. Does anyone know? Does anyone know? Need the void wedding in WoW? True. Someone's got to die. Someone's got to [ __ ] die.
Yeah, it's in the middle. Gotcha. >> Got it. Yeah, I want >> I think I think thall dying would be good. whatever. >> Yeah, Jana could die. Yeah, she could
>> She could bite the dust. >> Guess she hasn't done anything, huh? Beware. Beware. These nuts. [laughter] [ __ ] out of here, >> man. Start sing. >> This man started singing the Jana theme.
So, one time I was driving to work and I had my YouTube playing >> and that song just randomly came on. >> Yeah. listening to it. [laughter] >> I pulled an end.
>> I was like, "Dude, why am I going to work right now at 8:00 in the morning? This is horrible. I was driving to work at 8:00 in the morning. I was sad." >> Yeah, [laughter] that was crazy. >> Can we get gang gang gay man? Oh boy.
>> It's really just that that moment I don't like We need there has to be the next tier of people stepping up like in line like Greymane successor, Jana successor, Khadgar. We need a new [ __ ] uh uh Guardian. Like we need
Gang Greymane is 98 years old. >> This guy's been olds forever. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Greymane now. >> He's passed the torch to where the [ __ ] is she? I didn't even know this lady
>> I did not. I'm an idiot. yourself a wild player, huh? >> Okay, Lance, do you guys like Zalot as a villain? Yes, I love her as a villain. >> I really enjoyed the questing with her in this in this last patch where she was
hanging out. >> I am such a humongous fan of Zalat. She is such a conniving little [ __ ] I love her. I [ __ ] love her. She's
cool. >> You didn't reclaim Gilaeas guy? remember. >> The reclamation of
>> dangerous. Yeah, bro. Like my [ __ ] girlfriend. She'll >> Er is going to be dope. I really hope that he gets to take a star role in this >> Light and dark. >> Yeah, I'm the light and shadow.
excited. The way she loved me like the way you love her. Yo, settled down. I felt it in the wind that Star was in here lurking. I felt it in the wind. That's why I said she's just like Star and Star is going to freaking end me in
my sleep. I felt it. You guys understand? That's a sick sense right someone that aled as priest in Legion. Yo, Lance, >> but yeah, also I think because the fact that I've been a main shadow priest
forever. Yeah, it hits hard. It really hits close >> Don't talk about my girl's feet. That's crazy. I hate the Horde council. >> Yes, the Horde should not be. By the way, I I think leading into The Last
Titan, they should start leaning towards that. And I would say and >> and someone who maybe doesn't want the, you know, the faction war to be a thing [ __ ] thing to do. >> Um,
>> post Last Titan, you can start building to that a little bit. >> Oh man. >> No, no, hold on, wait, wait, wait. I do agree. Hold on. The same guy. >> Wait, wait. But not the not the second
point to you. I don't think the game is soft, but the the you cannot match the early masculinity woow between Vyian and Gash and the way characters you just I just had an argument with LFG two seconds ago. But I do agree to a
sense I don't think WoW is soft right now though. Is it as tough as it used to be? Absolutely not. But does that make it soft? No. WoW was just really really >> I don't know if you know this but a lot of a lot of the world that's what I'm
>> a lot of the world isn't exactly um as tough as it used to be you know things change >> well when you're not segmented to [ __ ] war 24/7 yes the entirety of a society will change for sure men and
women will get softer and be lighter and easier and more peaceful and harmonious if we want to make that argument sure we're not battling each culture in this these days. >> Yes, 100%.
>> Yes, 100%. >> In general, but I do agree. I once again my hope, man, is and I've wanted this for a minute. I really want Andowin to step up and be just a really awesome awesome leader and just lead like a
awesome leader and just lead like a [ __ ] Chad, dude. Step up, make plays, really really want that more than Horde. I can't really speak on Horde too
much. What as horde players? What do you guys want? What do you guys want? Who would you want to lead and step up to the plate and just go crazy step? >> It's like the Horde's finally going to get some shine. It's the blood elves.
>> [ __ ] >> The most feminine race lead what the therapy sessions. That's crazy. You know what I mean, man? I do think Ander are They're the next in line to really they're the onetwo punch. That's what I
was hoping that they would have that connection and kill that [ __ ] go. >> And Fyron going to be a power couple. they might get together. Didn't you? >> I not because that's something I want to
where they're leading. >> Yeah, he did pitch that. I don't want it to happen, but it could. Byron's cool, by the I got no beef for her. It's a badass.
That little short story she had not so long ago, too. What kind of a town do we live in where a man dresses up like a bat? Gets my breast in me. This town. Yo, that's crazy. >> Vulg coming back.
>> From what I hear, he might be. So, >> by the way, what about homeboy's kids in race? >> Zuljin's kids? >> Yeah, Zuljin's kids. >> I don't know. They look they look pretty
late for the Horde. They could have done a great job with Sylvanas or Vulgen, but leaders. I agree. You left so many. now. >> Yeah, I think we're working on that
Zalot. This shit's been going three expansions on now since Dragon Flight. Flight, but she was there. >> Well, near the end. >> Oh, whatever. >> She showed up. Who in the horde would
>> Lance. >> Well, we don't want it to be the undeads >> [ __ ] weirdos. >> Wonder if Thall's son get more. Yeah, times, >> bro. Yeah, remember has a son. We I've
>> They did that short story where they show him go through the trials and he never mention. >> Hey, Sweaty Betty. How we doing? >> You're right. >> Where is he? Also, Riticron is a badass
>> Yeah, >> he is a bad boy. We actually just ran >> Uh >> uh the Dawn of the Infinite. >> Yeah, that was cool. >> Torin come in. Yeah, they don't like
>> I don't think we were supposed to know what Zo's like actual end goal is just yet. >> Yeah, I could agree. I could agree. Man. >> Oh, and the Orc heritage arm request.
should go do that. >> I don't remember seeing him. I did it recently. Oh, no, I didn't. No, I did the mag heart work one. Hold up. >> Very cool. >> Vuljana. That's the That's his daughter,
>> Yeah. Yeah, >> it's Isn't it? I don't know. I don't couple weeks. >> Is that the daughter? That'd be cool, too. Listen, as long as she's a badass, I got no problem if it's
a man or a woman. Just be a badass. Like, and by the way, I feel like what Blizzard's starting to do recently, just this expansion, is like, you know how sometimes there'll be that really cringy thing of like, I'm here and it's because
thing of like, I'm here and it's because I'm proud to be XYZ, whether it's women or whatever. [ __ ] that. Let's just be cool just to be cool. Like, just be a don't need to state you're a badass because of your whole backstory XYZ.
so much, but just be just be a badass. And I don't care if you're a woman. Just [ __ ] whoop ass. That's what I want to see. Let's go. Like, let's rock and roll. Be be a leader. Be tough. And just be cool. I think her brother ends up
being a bad guy. Who's >> uh Zjen? Zuljin's son, I think, ends up >> Don't say that they're not a duo. You don't want Ray from Star Wars? >> No, I don't want Ray from Star Wars, actually. or any Marvel recent.
quest line. That's actually good news. So, >> no XYZ plots. Just do the [ __ ] I agree. Just be awesome. And >> what are you supposed to do? Be cool.
>> By the way, there's so many badass women throughout like fantasy and and lore and >> Yeah. >> Like like just be you. Like I don't know. I've been writing women terribly recently, honestly. I agree. And there's
know, just be cool, man. Just do your thing. >> Well, I've always said when it comes to >> like from uh Lord of the Rings, too, >> writing, like the writing dialogue, Blizzard's not very good at, but what
>> True. I'll give you that. She's a badass. She's a badass. >> She's a badass. >> Khesi, a badass. Badass.
Ariel from from Game of Thrones. I don't even remember who that is to be honest. Uh, >> what's white man up to? >> Actually, isn't she one of the four horsemen?
horsemen. >> Love my unhinged warden. Yeah, she's >> Love my unhinged warden. Yeah, she's cool, but she's a little psycho. I don't [laughter] >> to be honest.
You write it because the make the male characters suffer to uplift the female. Yeah, true. That shit's lame, too. Like, why do we do that? Like, you guys ever seen Rings of Power recently? >> Yeah, they do that a lot in that show.
>> they do that a lot in Rings of Power. Like, just be badass. Just Just be cool. >> Oh, Lilian Voss is a great character. >> Lily Voss is a great character, too. Yeah, we're going back to North. All the DKs will be hands on deck. Oh, true. I
didn't think of that. The Eb and Hold is probably going to get a nice update. Now that I think of it. Yeah. I mean, it's been how many years, Lance? Since Wrath place still ain't updated. Still
the same way. Top to bottom. Um, that shit's going to get updated. Northern. >> No, you're a [ __ ] liar. >> Yeah, they there was a whole story about that, right? Didn't there wasn't
have a base there? >> No. >> Yeah, it could be. I'm right. I think so. I don't remember where I read that. >> No. Is that true? The last ride of the Force Horsemen would be sweet. True.
>> Yeah. Really? That's crazy. The Scarlet >> but they're not the ones from Wrath, but there's another ones that went after.
>> Killed a ton of them back in Wrath. >> Yeah, I don't mean the ones from Wrath. >> The new ones. They found them in the explorer books. >> That's where I freaking remember it. Tonda Whispering when she was full on
Aloon Warrior. Yeah, I did like that. >> That was cool. By the way, I did like >> when she went night warrior. >> Yeah, I like that. She was cool there. She was a bad [ __ ] there. She was a bad [ __ ]
one. >> Yeah. No, I remember that. I was like I was scared of her. I was like, "Yo, she's on like she's on that. She's on nothing to do. >> Said, "Where my hubby? Where my darn?
get it." >> In Legion, one of the class halls goes to New Hearth Glenn. >> Really? >> Probably the death knight.
guy. >> No, he didn't he thought he Wait, did he? By the way, wasn't he in Wasn't he in that last quest line we did? Isn't there like an Easter egg of the fact that he's hiding?
>> The priest. All right. >> No, Lance. What the [ __ ] >> Yo, that priest. Hold on. The priest order hall was so ass though. >> Yeah, it's just not good. Lance, >> you know, I've done that twice. Lance,
>> dude. Yeah, in the mall. Okay. Okay. >> Yeah, there is there is a a Easter egg of him there. >> Interesting. >> Yeah, I by the way I never for a second like Nathaniel like does any
>> I liked it. I liked him in classic. >> I never liked him. I never liked him for a second. I I never every time I saw him I'm like yo this [ __ ] guy again like I'm like yo this [ __ ] guy again like bro who invited this guy bro? Like
get this dude out of here? I don't know. Oh, as a shadow priest, the sha the the priest artifact quest line was crazy. Especially the end when you have to defend the keep >> and you need the paladins to come in and
save you is crazy. >> Reno, what's up, buddy? >> Reno, you're alive. >> Espanol, unfortunately, no. how is that? Are you on your two weeks on or two weeks off?
>> Is it three and two? >> I thought it was two and two. >> I don't remember. Reno, you got to let us know. Hope everything's good. Jose, us know. Hope everything's good. Jose, shout out to you. He was a s. Yeah,
[ __ ] Thanos, bro. He was a [laughter] cuck. weeks. I knew it. Well, you know, the palent are created because priests can't >> yeah. Well, shadow priest certainly can. I mean, oh
man, I read those first few books, man. It was so fun watching the creation of the paladins and like everything happened and the upbringing of the warlock and how shamans became them and oh, it was so [ __ ] big, bro.
oh, it was so [ __ ] big, bro. So awesome, bro. spec? Well, I'm going to be maning that spec.
>> Yeah, that is Lancing a lot. I will say it's it's hot garbage in the pre- patch. >> Best DPS right now, your personal opinion. Uh there's a few. I don't think there's overall just one. Demonology is slamming on beta. Arcane Mage is doing
really good. They're like disgusting single target. So, in raid and pryo Believe it or not, Frost Mage is still doing great. Uh I think there was one more. or I just I don't remember. But I know demo lock is [ __ ] gross right
hunter? Go lance. >> Don't level as devour. That's my >> Just level as havoc. The spec is not going to really come on like at level 80. You could play it. It's not going to
be great, but you could play it. But it doesn't really come online till like >> Delves are probably going to be tough on devour, bro. >> I was running them. It's fine. >> Think so. You got to run uh home girl as
a tank. E, by the way, you say, "Yo, that shit's fire." honestly, I wish there was like one more button to press in the melee combo. Um, well, right now that void squ, it's the
only build that actually feels playable right now, and it does [ __ ] they were created to counter the Gul'dans, death knights. Yeah, it it it was the whole the whole upbringing of that story and everything was so [ __ ]
peak and then when Talion first encountered them with Uther, they were having a battle. I forgot where, but it was near a beach and they came through just jumping off the boat and it would it they they described the horde coming
out as like they were like ants flooding like as far as your eyes can see. It was just orcs flooding the battlefield. And then a death knight walked up to a group of humans, took took out his hand, put his hand, went like this, boom, and then
his hand, went like this, boom, and then like a whole like platoon of like 15 20 like a whole like platoon of like 15 20 humans just had like like soores and disease and and locust come out of them and like their skin would it was [ __ ]
insane. And then one of the paladins stepped up in front with this hammer like lit up his hammer with light and then like just started going at it. It was so epic. It It was peak just peak. It was so [ __ ] cool, man.
>> We do need an anime of WoW, by the way. >> Dude, an anime of wow would go so hard. Like, I don't know, bro. Don't leave it to Netflix. I don't mind leveling it to Farm rares in Twilight Highlands. I'm getting a refresher in Northern While we
devour. You want to read this? >> As a demon, it feels like it's a little too simple at the moment. Kind of kills much on the 90 towns. >> Um, yeah. And no, they designed the
class about around being level 90, which >> your Apex >> is like >> [ __ ] crazy, bro. Like, >> are you serious? >> Um, but yeah. No, the class doesn't
talents. >> Like, you need first you need the auto crit on collapsing star because they balance collapsing star around literally every time. And then if you don't have the collapsing star as soon as you enter
meta, it's like, okay. Yeah, that's kind of [snorts] crazy. It's It's almost like I'm not saying it's impossible to get collapsing stars off right now, but like the collapsing star gives a lot of souls. I
was Classic Plus. Listen, bro. One thing I will say about classic and the classic player base and classic plus, one thing I've learned about classic players is they will never ever be pleased. It does not matter. And this is the truth. This
isn't an opinion, they will never be pleased. They get hardcore servers official, they're still mad 2 months later. They get TBC Classic re-release, Realms, they're upset. They get Season of Discovery, they're upset. They will
be upset 247. It does not matter until they get their classic plus. Now, that's think it's actually going to make everything implode even more. So, you want me to be completely real? We all know Classic Plus is being announced at
Blizzcon. It is so [ __ ] stupid and brain dead to believe otherwise that it's not getting announced and it's going to be released earlier. Very, very stupid. And I guarantee you when it is announced and revealed, they're going to
find things to complain about and B, the majority of them will be upset. Mark the probably make a video right before BlizzCon being like, I guarantee Classic
players are still mad. Like, cuz you can't like it is a fact. It's it's literally a meme in the community. You cannot like make a classic player happy. It's impossible. Does not exist. They just
want to like they're playing TBC pre- patch right now and then they're moping and getting upset like >> their job. And by the way, Osiris, you're 100% right. Too many people want too many different things from Classic.
Their job has to be, okay, how do we piss the least amount of people off with >> What is Classic Plus? No one [ __ ] knows. And it's a ship set to fail and crash into rocks and everyone's going to be upset in the classic community.
changes. >> No. Yeah. And then they're going to want the original alpha World of Warcraft because that was the true vanilla. >> Alpha 03. >> Yo, it don't matter who you are. If you
play anything other than classic, you're a loser. According to them, I was in someone's stream the other day. He was ragging on retail so hard about [ __ ] that didn't even make sense. He was getting mad about someone fishing. I'm
like, "What? Getting mad at fishing? Why are you getting upset right now, bro? What class spec do you guys think is the most underrated? Oh, [ __ ] Jesus Christ,
most underrated? Oh, [ __ ] Jesus Christ, that's so hard. Underrated. Underrated in terms of what? Raw power or fun. Nice. There goes my memory. Are we live? Nice. There goes my memory. Are we live? Let's check. Yep, we are still live. Um,
Let's check. Yep, we are still live. Um, last spec do you think I think overall being underrated? Any Okay, in terms of being a fun spec, I think balance druid is a lot of fun this expansion. Um, it's the most
underrated for me. I I cannot believe how much I had fun. Mwaver was a lot of how much I had fun. Mwaver was a lot of fun, too. It really surprised me. Um,
yo, Outlaw is pretty good in terms of numbers, and so is Subtlety Rogue, even Um, but Shadow Priest is underrated, honestly. Oh, and there goes my Streamlabs. My
>> Oh, man. >> Holy [ __ ] What is going on? >> Um, Shadow Priest is a is a tough one. Um, someone who's played that spec for many, many years, it's uh, >> it's tough, man. Yo, my yo, Xfinity,
>> Started playing Windalker and Legion Remix and it's strong chance I main alt Windalker's rotation and gameplay is a lot of fun. Problem is is the damage numbers are piss ass swamp penis tier.
know what that was. Uh, shadow priest underrated. No coverage. Yeah, got to raise the rise of Lao. Always getting rework. True.
I love Wind Walker. Good luck raid leading with it. played it for many years. I just for what, seven, eight, nine, 10 years. >> Yeah, I mean, I'm playing classic right now, though. I also play retail. I will
say what I like the most in classic is the sense of community and running into the world again. Yeah, it's classic is the best in the world at stuff like that and making you feel like you need people. It's the best in the world. And
retail, I wish it did it better in a way, but also I wish it didn't because I like being able to casually log in, play for an hour, get what I want done through my delves or solo content, and [ __ ] off. I don't have time to form a
group for 45 minutes, and then run to a dungeon for 15 minutes, and then clear that said dungeon for an hour. I don't have time. So, as someone with not a lot retail fits me just perfectly because I'm working 24/7, 7 days a week. I don't
have time. I'm exhausted. I never play the video game. It's really sad. So, it Warcraft content creator, I never play the video game. It's crazy.
away from players in retail. Players just changed. I mean, you're right. And I was talking to Lance about that the other day. Like it's just the mindset is just changed of players developing into, you know, heading into 2026. Like
if you want to go be stuck in 2004 and you could spend 3 hours leveling one level. I mean, bro, you could go do that. That's fine. But like getting mad play is crazy. That's like me getting mad at you because you like classic. I
will never do that. I love World of Warcraft Classic. I wish I can play it and stream it all day and make a bunch of money and no life we did back in co. Right or wrong, Lance%. >> But guess what? The game's changed. The
life has changed. I got max if I'm [ __ ] lucky. And I don't even have a kid. I don't even know how Lance does it. I have an hour a day max if I'm lucky with how much I work. I'm running three channels. I'm doing YouTube shorts
and short form content. I have to go bigger and better in quality and animations and graphics than everybody else on WoW to somewhat stand out look down at me just because I'm young. Got to figure out a show to grow and
stream and and do like I'm my brain is fried. I'm cooked. crazy. >> King Coo, what he means is it's not that he doesn't ever like playing the game to learn about it. He's not really You
don't count that as playing, right? Like being on beta testing [ __ ] No, telling you right now, believe it or not, playing classes you don't have any interest in running Mythic Plus, which you hate Mythic Plus, I'm telling you,
you hate Mythic Plus, I'm telling you, it's work. That [ __ ] is torture. But in in with Lance or a guild mate and just chill. happen anymore. So, it's one of the perks and curses of being a content
creator. By the way, thank you guys for the follows. I appreciate the love. Um, gonna be honest. I can continue just casually talking for hours. For hours I can keep talking, but I got to let Lance go, man. His wife is gonna kill me. I
home. >> I've I've dragged this on long enough. I be asleep now, baby. I >> have so much fun talking to my brother about World of Warcraft. I love you guys so much. Really, it's an absolute
pleasure to make content for you guys. Um, this Wednesday we're gonna have a pretty good big show. Maybe we'll bring on a classic creator and talk about what they were expecting from the uh the
announcements and stuff. Really guys, you guys genuinely have no idea how much how much it means to have a platform to just [ __ ] uh shoot the [ __ ] and talk WoW. Like it really is such a pleasure.
I love it so much. It makes me so happy and I'm so excited to go into midnight guys are interested in joining the community, hop in our Discord. I'll send a link right now. We'll see if we can get you into the guild. Do your best,
guys. If you can follow the directions in there cuz they are up. >> Yes. >> Also, if you already in the guild, they're going to do a purge. >> We're going to do another purge and then
last week right before midnight launches. So, be ready for that. The Stay passionate. Let's try to get you in and if anything, worst case scenario, we'll get you in the second guild and we'll go from there. Um, I love you guys
we'll go from there. Um, I love you guys so much. We will be having giveaway
to go. I love you guys. God bless. I'll see you in the next one. Please.