[00:02] death from the 2017 Logan film? And will that anchor point in the multiverse come of the New Rockstars channel, and now it is time to revisit 2017's Logan, the film by James Mangold that might be the best Marvel film of all time, and maybe
[00:17] even the best Marvel film that will ever be. We decided to isolate just this 2017 Logan film to be its own episode of the Road to Doomsday podcast because A, it's that good, and B, it seems like it might be that important to the events to come
[00:30] this great conversation, Jessica Clements and I revisit everything that was great about this film, what worked in it, what things other Marvel movies really struggled to recreate from it, and overall, why it's so important to
[00:42] revisit. Here is our full July 2026 schedule on the Road to Doomsday podcast. Yes, you'll notice Comic-Con weekend is Avengers: Infinity War, but bangers. So, subscribe to New Rockstars, join us every Saturday for this podcast.
[00:56] Nicked out that adamantium just halfway, crack open an anti-mutant toxin-laced energy drink, and enjoy this Logan episode of the Road to Doomsday. >> Logan will always win the argument for me for best Marvel movie ever.
[01:09] broke that mold? >> It's the best Wolverine story and it is know him. >> to be a fan before watching it. So >> Wolverine was always great. Hugh Jackman always made him a watchable character,
[01:23] figured it out. It's really where the Fox the era should have ended. There's no living with the killing, and there's no X-Men universe without a Wolverine. Yeah, we're talking about Logan, the 2017 James Mangold film. Eric and Jess
[01:38] here revisiting what might be the best Marvel film to date, maybe the best Marvel film that will ever be. What were your thoughts revisiting Logan? best Marvel film. It technically is. Technically.
[01:52] Cinematic Universe? >> Oh, I think well, I'm comparing all the X-Men movies, all the X-Men movies I think I think unfortunately Logan is I >> Yeah, and it's not I mean it's great that we
[02:05] we're going to talk about in this episode why it's so good and why it has to be talked about in its own episode. A lot of you were like wait you merged talking about the Deadpool trilogy even talked about Deadpool 3 before you
[02:19] talked about the 2017 Logan film. That's true. There's a lot of other movies that we grouped together, but Logan the 2017 Logan film is singular in this regard and and I think it's held on this high status by every Marvel director and
[02:33] studio person, you know, since that movie came out as like ooh, this movie did something right. It's sacred ground even Deadpool and Wolverine despite it trampling all over that sacred ground understood that like there was something
[02:45] important about that and it gave us the the term anchor being that that Wolverine's death in that movie was so critical maybe so tragic that the TVA watches it and cries the same TVA we're going to be revisiting in Avengers
[02:57] Domesday. So we're going to talk about like what this one Logan film does really well. Um what lessons the Russo brothers are thinking about looking back at that movie what every director in the Marvel Universe whether it's you know,
[03:11] looks at that movie for and it's really fun just to spend a whole episode I that good. >> Yeah, it's let's cry again. >> [laughter] >> Okay, so here we go. We're talking about
[03:23] Logan directed by James Mangold. It was written by Scott Frank James Mangold and the cool screenwriting process for this movie distributed by Fox. It was released March 3rd 2017. Here's what happens in the movie. The Logan film
[03:36] begins in the not too distant future. We think it's around 2029. James Howlett aka Logan aka Wolverine Hugh Jackman is passed out in the back of the limo that he drives for a gig. That's his job now is he's a limo driver a luxury limo
[03:49] driver. A gang of carjackers are trying to steal his rims. He fights them off in scenes ever that we've seen in a Marvel movie. One of many of those that we'll see throughout this film. But it's obvious that he is past his prime. He's
[04:03] half drunk. His claws don't come out all the way. He's clearly a lesser version with his snikting or his swiping. He's cutting off limbs when he meant to cut When he's off the job, he's approached by a woman claiming to need his help.
[04:17] We'll come to know her as Gabriella shortly. She's played by Elizabeth Rodriguez. And a mercenary working for the Alkali Transigen company, we'll come to know him as Pierce played by Boyd Holbrook. He's approached during this
[04:29] that the world Logan is trying to hide from him is finally catching up to him at an inopportune time. We get little details that there's like this is a screen covered near future where
[04:44] We find out throughout the movie that this Hypno energy drink is laced with these toxins that's gradually weeding out mutants from the gene pool. And it's film and see how those those Hypno sightings and those automated mag trucks
[04:59] are everywhere in the background of the opening minutes of this movie. Charles Xavier, of course Patrick Stewart, who's now in his 90s and he's suffering from some kind of dementia, some other kind of brain disease that
[05:12] also causes seizures. But he also just can't remember. He has random memories like alternate timelines that he and Logan know about from the timeline shenanigans of the past films. But it's just very dangerous to be
[05:26] around Charles because these seizures cause everyone in the vicinity to just freeze in this paralytic state. And we even see like cutting up their dinner and has a chef's knife in his hand when one of
[05:40] us this anxiety throughout the movie. We're like, "Oh my god, like people in really really hurt themselves. But Logan's also just like he has to wear new glasses to help his eyesight. He doesn't know that he bought ibuprofen,
[05:54] who are giving him these drugs for Charles, that it's supposed to keep him sedated. They're in this smelting plant south of cerebro idea that's really keeping the rest of
[06:06] the world shut out. We find out that one of Charles's seizures was responsible for a mass casualty incident, the Westchester incident that killed a lot Westchester incident that killed a lot of the X-Men in the Westchester estate.
[06:18] kind of hunted to extinction, either hunted or just kind of again bred out of the population through these toxins. Logan's trying to save up for a boat to take Charles out to sea,
[06:30] safe thing because Logan with his regeneration can just barely withstand it. It's like really a dooming Logan himself and Charles to just kind of the himself and Charles to just kind of the hobbit-esque Grey Havens exile
[06:43] it seems like a last ditch effort anyhow. But the plan goes away when Gabriella calls Logan's limo to a to a motel offering a ton of cash to get her and a child, Laura, played by Daphne Keen, to North Dakota. Logan initially
[06:57] dead and Laura has stashed herself away in his limo anyhow. Charles wants to help her and when Pierce shows up to their hideout with a truck couple movie's version of the Reavers, these
[07:11] mercenaries with cybernetic limbs, Logan and Laura fight them off. Again, another insane fight sequence where we see Laura has two claws up top, one claw on each vicious, having no problem decapitating people, bowling their heads, using her
[07:26] lower claw in this really cool way to like drag herself to a halt while also stabbing people with it. It's just awesome to see them both at work. They're barely able to get away by just out pacing a train car, but like
[07:40] even just in the back of that limousine, things are just harrowing in this overnight in this casino in Oklahoma City. Charles and Logan learn that Laura had been part of an illegal weapons program and was actually created using
[07:53] Logan's DNA. She's kind of like a clone or a strand cast, making her sort of his daughter, but more so his clone, really. She's not going to be the only Wolverine all the other kids in this facility were clones of X-Men or or mutant-related
[08:08] characters that we saw in past films. There was like um specifically from the X-Men Origins Wolverine movie, a clone of Bolt or a mutant made with Bolt's DNA, a mutant made with with different like Richter DNA.
[08:24] Pierce and his goons force captive Caliban to track Laura and show up at the confrontation triggers a seizure in Charles, which freezes the entire hotel administer medicine. The hotel part of the movie is also where we find out that
[08:39] they're in universe X-Men comics in this movie, that they actually commissioned real X-Men comics writers to make like 10 fake versions of that are showing how the mutants of this society There's some other [ __ ] in a Liar's Bar, that
[08:52] Logan calls him, who is kind of continuing to tell the X-Men mythology little Easter eggs in these comics to direct any mutant runaway up north to these particular coordinates to Eden, as they call it. So, they continue north
[09:06] family of friendly farmers who nearly get run off the road by these evil automated trucks. They spend the night at their place. Pierce and the goons though catch up. They're also with Zander Rice, Richard
[09:18] illegal weapons division and this pet project of X-24, the other clone of Wolverine. There's a heartbreaking moment where it seems like Logan and peace or what peace looks like with this family, this family of farmers. But no,
[09:34] family, this family of farmers. But no, as Charles is giving this heartbreaking bedridden speech about how he does remember what he did and how he just Logan. He's not confessing this to Logan. He's confessing this to Logan's
[09:47] clone. One of the craziest twists of the movie that totally caught me off guard me off guard every time I watch it. Like I don't know how I forget that that's X-24. So X-24 kills Charles, kidnaps Laura, kills the whole family. I think
[10:01] it's the darkest thing we've seen in any Marvel movie ever or ever will. I mean you can call it the dust dark. You can call how Doomsday's going to end dark. >> Yeah. >> Uh so now Caliban sets off a few
[10:14] killing himself and taking a few goons out with him. Uh it's just heartbreaking but Logan and Laura escape with Charles's corpse and and bury it by a by eventually meeting up with a group of other escapees from the program. All
[10:28] these kids um up in like somewhere in the badlands or or in um or in North Dakota. Uh they're prepping to head across the border into Canada before Zander Rice and Transigen can track them down again.
[10:40] He's injured. He's just tired of this [ __ ] So he sends them off and stays he's, you know, trying to do something with. But at this point he's healing given to him by the kids. The kids then take off into the mountains and then
[10:54] Rice and Pierce and the other goons are taking off after them. So he takes the them into the woods and there's a massive fight in these woods between the mutant kids and Logan and X-24 and all these goons. Uh but the kids kill a lot
[11:07] think we forget how vicious it is with these kids. They kill uh Pierce as well. Um right as uh Zander Rice tries to do his big James Bond villain speech Logan just shoots him. Laura and Logan face off against X-24 who ends up impaling
[11:21] Logan on the dead tree. Though it's too late to save Logan, Laura shoots X-24 with that adamantium bullet that Logan had been hanging on to. Logan's dying plea is that Laura doesn't become a weapon like he did. She buries him in
[11:33] The other kids stand around the grave. One of them has an X has a Wolverine action figure and they head off. And we don't see this grave site again until Deadpool and Wolverine where a lot of crazy [ __ ] happens here but it's one of
[11:47] the it's really where the Fox era should have ended I think >> technically it did, right? We just kind of got into a void where they were. >> Oh, yeah. I forgot Dark Phoenix and the mutants. That's true. Yeah, I forgot
[12:03] more Deadpool movies, right? We had Deadpool 2 come out after it but it's really like when we I think this movie being as good as it did made Dark like, I thought we were done with this era. I thought we were just going to
[12:15] live in the Marvel universe. And and Dark Phoenix also came out after news So, I'm like, why are we still hanging out? And yeah, it's it's it's And yeah, it's it's it made and nothing against New Mutants especially or or or Dark
[12:29] both both of those movies feel like nothing from those movies is going to come back in Doomsday or anything Marvel Studios is planning but stuff from Logan come back in Deadpool and Wolverine. The TVA cares that much about things that
[12:43] kind of part of the sacred timeline text. >> Does it feel like um Magneto is going to be doing what [laughter] happened to Xavier? Cuz they there's the the whole rumor that what he did in New Jersey or
[12:55] happened to him whatever he lied about in that interview. Do we think that like >> Magneto is supposed to take his place in Logan and Magneto is going to be like just not not coherent? >> Oh, like he said uh
[13:11] Are you you're talking about where he >> In that interview. >> Um what's so crazy about that is like he said that interview he said that quote in several different interviews. First with Jake's Takes, our Tik Tok buddy
[13:23] one of the best interviewers. Love you, Jake. He's the first one who got the scoop. And then um Ian McKellen repeated it on on Colbert to make this Mar-a-Lago joke. And then he repeated it again at an event and only now at this event did
[13:37] all the trades pick it up and be like, "Ian McKellen said that he wanted to destroy Mar-a-Lago in Avengers: Doomsday and the Russo brothers told him to change it." Um but it's just a it's not Ian McKellen actually saying that he
[13:49] joke that he says in front of crowds like, "They just told him to announce something." wasn't a Mar-a-Lago joke? >> It was He didn't say the Mar-a-Lago part
[14:01] destroyed New Jersey in the movie. Oops, maybe I shouldn't have said that." So I don't know if it's real or not. After CinemaCon, Feige and the Russo destroy New Jersey in Doomsday." >> I mean, I would go back on it, too.
[14:16] think they said him that >> Ian McKellen in a very long time. This and then he was like, "Oh, I forgot how weird you guys are about scoops and shit." Ian McKellen's been on the stage for how long? He hasn't been in He
[14:29] anything else in such a long time that it's like, "Oh yeah, he doesn't like It's been He knows the press deal for his characters, I'm sure, always, but he also is just like, "What What's the big deal?" Cuz also he was in a time of like
[14:42] nerdism when going to sets and getting set like photos WAS LIKE, "OOH! OOH!" someone's going to sneak onto that set or someone's going to show pictures of Spidey swinging in London. So it's like, "Yeah, I feel like he also just doesn't
[14:57] care." And what he said isn't the whole point of the movie. So to him he's like, >> I I think they gave him one thing to say to press and they're like, "Just run going to be some version of it in Doomsday.
[15:10] Um but I don't think we see Magneto do that. I think something else is going to movie. We're going to see when Battleworld forms, specifically some tidal wave is is to hit New Jersey. And it's not going to be Magneto doing it.
[15:23] It's going to be Doctor Doom doing it. >> still going to be incoherent. I think think that's the saddest you can see. That's the saddest you can see Xavier >> Okay. >> And I And that little piece that we see
[15:37] him like Were they playing chess? What was it like, "These are two old men that are like that were the most powerful men in and playing chess." And I mean, I know that that's like very but I also think
[15:52] it's more of like because they can't. They can't do more with their powers. dying." >> Yeah. In in the latest Industrial Light & Magic supposedly that we're going to not going to show you
[16:06] online. There's I I can verify at this point that it's real. It's I I can't tell you how I know Um And now, the version you saw might be an
[16:18] AI-enhanced version of it, but the original version of it that was going around online, it is real. There's like specific details in that shot that it would have been impossible for any kind of AI impostor or fan
[16:30] certain things. And there's just certain things about that shot that I think and it was a leak from Industrial Light & Magic. Now, will that shot be in the movie? No. Maybe this was just kind of a a test thing that they were putting
[16:43] together for a different sequence. And then maybe I mean, they're still putting They're still doing reshoots for Avengers: Doomsday. So, I don't know if I think it was an actual thing that actual people being paid to work on this
[16:57] Um But, there's no Professor X in it. There's no Magneto in it, even though those characters are in the X-Mansion in the same location that all these other characters are in in that leaked image.
[17:10] >> Yeah. >> I think like time with them in this movie. >> physically we genuinely just can't. everyone's like literally doing backflips, I'm not trying to be this
[17:24] McKellen can do too much. >> Yeah. So, we have seen Charles Xavier >> How many times? Three times? Four? >> At least at least four, maybe more. So, we saw him die in X-Men: The Last Stand when Phoenix obliterated
[17:38] >> Yes, yes, yes, yes. >> We saw him die in in this movie, in Logan in 2017 when X-24 kills him. We saw him die in Doctor when the Scarlet Witch rips his face in half.
[17:52] half. He breaks his neck. >> No, she grabs his cheek and his >> And it snaps his face in half. She doesn't pull She rips his face in half. >> Okay, good for her, I guess.
[18:04] >> But it's mental face in half. >> Okay, that's true. So, in real life it oh, oh." >> In real life it was his brain. It was like his right hemisphere from his left hemisphere.
[18:16] Uh, and then I'm forgetting other times. >> I feel like there is one one more and I die Do we not see him die in Deadpool? Well, no, there mention it cuz there he's running around with Cerebro's head on?
[18:29] >> Cerebro's helmet on. >> Um, well, they mentioned there was a Charles and an Eric Lensherr Magneto in the void that Cassandra Nova had killed. >> Oh, so he does he does die there. >> Uh, she died there. And and if you
[18:42] consider every time in X-Men: Days of Future Past the Sentinels catch them before the timeline gets changed, you see Charles go like, >> I'll say five. I'll say a good five. I think a good five. That's too many.
[18:55] >> A double turkey? >> After a while, how do we That's why I'm will affect me way more than Charles because I've seen Charles unfortunately die too many times. And I also do think even naturally with their stories, I
[19:09] this man has like had such a traumatic experience and that has led all of his >> So I'm like, "Oh, he's he's dead." Like he died. Like it But he also died, >> In in the last stand.
[19:24] >> So he died already, too. He's died once. >> die in that room? >> He just got depowered in X-Men: The Last far so long. >> I know. This podcast has been going
[19:38] >> [laughter] >> The uh I think let's talk about let's talk about what Logan does really well that I to Marvel Studios and the Russo brothers. The 2017 Logan film
[19:52] deconstructs the superhero formula for every it the peak period for superhero cinema. So uh 2017, March 2017, we were right in the middle of phase three. Um Avengers: Infinity War was a year away. Uh 2017 was the year of like
[20:09] Guardians volume two, Spider-Man: Homecoming, and Thor: Ragnarok. It was the year after Civil War um and Doctor Strange. So like Logan kind of marking the end of the Fox X-Men half of the franchise was like whoa, this kind of
[20:25] came out of nowhere for a lot of people. Going into the movie, we thought it was Wolverine solo films where like, "Oh, okay. So we had X-Men Origins: Wolverine. James Mangold took over the series with 2013's The Wolverine.
[20:38] And then now uh James Mangold was making his follow-up film. So I remember being we'll call this Wolverine 3." Looking back on it, this was not Wolverine 3. It was his own moment that just kind of showed everyone like, "Oh,
[20:53] superhero movies are not just like commercial popcorn movies. They can be commercial popcorn movies. They can be art. We can do interesting genre um like kind of transpositions with this. So basically what it did is it's like let's
[21:06] a superhero movie as Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven. Let's Let's show the hero at the end of his life. >> Is Is this Is this the first movie the superhero movie that kind of broke that mold in a way? I feel like in a way that
[21:19] watching it. You could feel the exact all the emotional roller coaster of this movie. You would understand this man is taking care of this older man who has seizures and disrupts the entire vicinity that he's in. They've cloned
[21:33] it all together. Is this the first movie that did that that was like we're going Wolverine movie? >> Arguably the first movie to really do it >> I meant in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Marvel and Marvel and and DC.
[21:48] does count as DC. >> It's DC, yeah. So, like but arguably Christopher Nolan certainly did that in The Dark Knight with Michael Mann's Mann's Heat and was like, "Okay, how can I make that kind of my rubric for a
[22:03] Batman Joker plot?" Um and he did an amazing job with it. And I think without Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight, you don't have James Mangold's Logan 9 years I think that or you arguably don't even have like superhero movies at all the
[22:18] Knight was the first superhero movie to make a billion dollars and then that >> That's true. And I think Dark Knight still does the thing that it's still He's still going out there and fighting people in a suit. This was like uh what
[22:33] happens to a washed-up superhero. Like this was like an actual like oh if this would it favor? And I think that was a great idea. And I think that's That's why I think like even for Marvel and DC, still very different takes cuz it's like
[22:46] that is such a superhero movie Dark Knight still is. It's just so grounded. superhero got old?" >> Yeah, and and and I think the point you bring up is is a good one. Like this is the first movie I think historically
[23:00] where it was technically a superhero franchise with none of the like superhero trappings because even like James Mangold's 2013 The Wolverine, while it didn't put Wolverine in his suit or any kind of like black leather
[23:14] suit, the movie itself has a lot of like superhero stuff in it. The whole third superhero stuff in it. The whole third act of the Silver Samurai, Viper, superhero-y.
[23:26] costume. He rejects the idea of wearing a leotard. The only thing um superhero-y are these comic books, but even they serve this thematic and plot structure. I think it's one of the most brilliant
[23:39] comic books, the way they're used in the movie, the way they comment on the world, and the way they're used in the plot as kind of this like almost sacred Jedi texts that Logan thinks are stupid because it's like it's just [ __ ]
[23:52] It's all propagandistic [ __ ] that lies about what we actually went through, but it actually has some it presents like a mystery for nerds like us to unpack. Uh but it also guides these characters on this kind of like
[24:04] almost like a map that Indiana Jones follows. There is like a truth to it. Um have like creators used little messages hidden into the pages of their works to guide people to a safe space?
[24:19] >> I think that's so such a beautiful thing um that actually makes sense in the other than that, like we see characters with superhero powers, we see old documents that show like, "Oh, this kid was cloned from this mutant." But it's
[24:34] like, you know, Cap catching the hammer >> I'm saying it's still it was so universal for everybody still in that aggressively hates superhero movies, you could still watch this one and be like,
[24:47] "Oh yeah, this is drama." Like this was a sad drama. Um and that's why I think that was like oh, it was it was just so crazy to be like, "Yeah, less than 10 years ago we had a movie that actually changed what superhero movies could like
[24:59] I Dark Knight definitely did but I feel like even like The Boys originated from comics but it's still like you could look at Logan. down and out sad ass alcoholic man doing today? Like oh yeah I forget like in a
[25:13] world of superheroes nothing is special to him. you look up to me but I look up to no one. Like it does not [laughter] matter. >> Yeah despite it's like rejection of the superhero
[25:26] cape core or whatever you want to call it. Um it it absolutely embraces the Wolverine and X-Men franchise in ways a lot of other movies that do embrace the cape don't do. Like the little Easter eggs and the little details of the way
[25:41] he heals the fact that he still has the samurai sword from the 2013 movie the fact that like he it hurts him you know it hurts every time reminding us of that line to Rogue in the truck in the first film. Like it understands the history of
[25:55] the Wolverine character better than like a lot of other legacy sequels understood the films that came before it. But the but also you mentioned The Boys. I look at this film and I bring it up every time I talk about Logan is Scott
[26:08] Frank and James Mangold writing this note to whoever's reading the screenplay Logan screenplay. You can read the whole thing online but a lot of people are it's like a note from the from the screenwriters to say like you know
[26:23] rather than being the big CGI fuckathon that you expect from Marvel movies or these kind of movies our people will die in this movie. When people fall they'll die. When people bleed they'll bleed out. They'll feel
[26:36] This Wolverine is a different Wolverine than what you've seen and it's it's way a lot of screenwriting gurus say never to do. It directs in the page and there's a very similar thing that um that Eric Kripke wrote for The Boys. In
[26:52] begins with the words "Fuck superheroes." >> Right. And then I think Eric Kripke only writes that after reading what Scott Logan screenplay. >> I agree with that. I He probably did. I
[27:05] has and I just have missed it. I'm sure someone has talked to him about Logan. he has to. Yeah, it's great it is a great approach. >> The difference with The Boys is you're adapting Garth Ennis's comics. And I
[27:18] in those comics, in order to tell that story properly as a satirical take on the superhero world, you do have to embrace some of the cape [ __ ] And and fans of The Boys who kind of liked that this is a world where characters had
[27:31] bright colors and capes and lots of blood, but also like like you needed to embrace some of that palette in ways that Logan doesn't >> No. It's It's It's a desert. When it's in a desert, it's a desert. When it's
[27:44] Vegas at the beginning? >> to >> I was like I'm like just getting the girls that flash themselves at the >> But it feels like Oh, no, when he is actually Oh, you're right, he's in
[27:57] Texas. He's like near the border, yeah. >> they're in the desert, it is like desert. Like everything about it changes tone and I'm like, "Oh my god. I'm like this is dusty and dirty. Get out of here. Get Get Professor X out of here."
[28:11] It's It's beautifully shot. Like James Mangold really shoots it as like a western. Like every shot just has like really good detail in it. Great depth of field, beautiful color balancing, beautiful texture, beautiful sense of
[28:25] focus. None of the stupid [ __ ] tricks of like split diopter stuff. Like in filmmaking with it. >> like And that's the maybe This isn't a that gave me the superhero vibes was just like the look of color in every
[28:38] scene they were in. Unfortunately, I do really like the scene when Xavier dies, looks. And I was like, "Oh, yeah, this is all really pretty scene." But then I'm also like, yeah, it's like so Xavier dies in the worst way possible.
[28:50] Maybe I shouldn't be saying this. He kind of had to go. >> of had to go. You got You like he had to go. It was There was only going to be so TOOK THEM. >> HE WAS on his final days anyway.
[29:03] alive. You're Wolverine. You're like, this man saved me. mom. Like I'm like, I'm not I'm not going to do it. I'm just going to keep >> Yeah. >> But yeah, he had to go. Maybe that's why
[29:15] Like he had to go. >> Yeah. So, you do that in this movie. It It doesn't feel like a betrayal of who Wolverine is. Um and I think the reason why Logan is considered the best, in addition to like the way it kind of is
[29:30] able to still stay as a truthful superhero story while making it feel to people who like different types of genres, um is that it did feel like the end. It felt like the end of a character story in the ways that like people
[29:45] compare it to Endgame. Like the end Endgame, Logan, and The Dark Knight are often in the conversation of best superhero movie ever. Um I think Logan rises above both of them. Every time I rewatch it, it it does get better upon
[29:58] >> Mhm. >> And what's interesting is like Endgame, for many people did feel like the ending but it's had so many movies since then. Uh and of course Doomsday is going to be one of them. Uh you know, Logan still
[30:11] dancing all over the graves of this character in uh Deadpool and Wolverine. hold up? >> I He still dies and he dies and it's I'm beginning the beginning of Deadpool and Wolverine pulls the bones out, whips
[30:27] people with it, you're like, he still died. It's not that Wolverine. And I feel not Like I don't know. I don't know. And this pee pee poo poo humor that I'm like, I'll put that away from this. So,
[30:40] like I I think of Wolverine as the end. I think of Wolverine as its own entity, Wolverine as just like, oh yeah, this is the Marvel version of it. picked up from. Like, this is what Marvel could do.
[30:52] >> Another thing that this movie does really well is it um it kind of got in just before we got sick of the whole formula of an old grizzled past his prime man with this little kid. >> Who Who Who Who Who's we?
[31:05] >> I mean, like we >> I love me a story where there that the old man has to deal with a young person. >> It's it's every story though. It's like >> kind of way you can. >> It's the only story Disney knows how to
[31:18] >> They do. >> Um because like we had Up was one of the version of The Last of Us. I think it was around the time of like The Last of Us season 2 where everyone's like, no more of this. I can't do it anymore. Uh
[31:32] with Ellie, but we had a flashback episode in season 2. dads that are like, give me one of them. set it up being like when people started to get sick of Taika is when like this
[31:46] >> Cuz of Thor? >> Cuz of Thor Love and Thunder and yeah. >> No, he didn't do it. Well, no, he did bring in a whole bunch of kids in Thor >> to fight that final battle and it's so it's really cringey when you revisit
[32:00] >> [laughter] >> Stupid. So, Mandalorian and Grogu does it. It was around the time we also got everything in The Mandalorian. It was uh Mandalorian and Grogu did not end at the end of season 2. They came back in
[32:14] >> You're giving me examples of things that I love. Can you give me an example of of >> [laughter] >> I'm like, I'm into this. Even in I'm like, >> [laughter]
[32:27] an example of where it sucks. >> I'm trying to think of one that I'm America Chavez. >> I did like it. I see, and that's why I he never did. Now I'm hoping Spider-Man gets to do that with someone else.
[32:40] >> I mean, I'm now a dad [laughter] and I go on adventures with my son all the time. Just little walks to the park where we get sidetracked and I'm telling in movies. >> Kate Bishop and Hawkeye, yeah. I ate
[32:52] ate that up. Damn. >> But I think but I think Logan is one reason it works really well >> mean to that child for a minute. really mean to him. >> She's Well, she's a child.
[33:05] >> She's a child, but she's great. Daphne Keen is a find in this movie. >> She's excellent in this part. She's just naming the names of her friends. He has >> He was so mean to her. In the beginning it made me
[33:18] the theater. Not uncomfortable in like a weird way. Uncomfortable in like damn mean to this girl and she doesn't know what the [ __ ] she's doing. And then I was like yeah, I guess that is Wolverine, but I didn't like it. He was
[33:30] >> And but I do think it works really well because it's not like these two are now relationship where he's trying to get her from A to B and she is going to be and then she's going to have a life after him.
[33:45] >> a few days together. That's it. >> So do you not like the fact that that you is usually a kid being like oh no or do you not like the journey that they like similar journey. >> the journey. What I don't like is when
[33:57] >> Oh, okay. That makes >> Or the kid is clearly saying things that no kid would ever say. They're they're making jokes that only Taika Waititi is And like it's like no kid in the world exists like that. This is a kid despite
[34:10] her like savagely murdering people, she's not like making jokes. >> Yeah. >> She is literally murdering people. >> Yeah. >> So I think it works. I think but Ellie
[34:22] justify well in the post-apocalypse the kid would be more sarcastic. >> Look, I'm just saying. I'm just >> I'm just saying. saying. >> But, I think also the reason Logan will
[34:35] always win the argument for me for best Marvel movie ever is the fact that it is a fairly contained story that has a really great sense of its own world, its own geography, its own stakes. It never tries to punch above its weight.
[34:48] >> It has a very clear sight on exactly what type of story it's telling. It changes over the course of the movie >> Mhm. >> to reach the state of evolution. Uh he's not really taught that much by the kid,
[35:00] but it's kind of like it's the best Wolverine story and it is true to the spirit of Wolverine that we know him from his legend to be. >> Mhm. >> You know, the Wolverine was always
[35:12] >> Yeah. >> But this is one that like really told us >> Mhm. >> It is a uh And it's like it's got these really cool metatextual details. It's the most
[35:25] thematically resonant movie. And it like it has a great sense of setting and Endgame or The Dark Knight. I mean, The Dark Knight has a really cool setting of Gotham City, but Endgame is just trying to do so much. Like it's trying to
[35:40] reconcile all these different MCU storylines and character line uh job for the most part. travel stuff, there's some kind of logic starts to fray
[35:52] >> in the final 30 minutes of Endgame that I think just think Logan is. >> I think they got they definitely have Logan at least has been done so many times that you're like, "Okay.
[36:06] Here's what everyone [ __ ] hates about like the solo Logan movies. Here's what movies. And we don't need to bring in all these extra [ __ ] people into it. is the same thing that was hard with The Boys. You have 18 [ __ ] main
[36:19] have to cauterize every single one before we end the movie. >> Like I I I can't say enough how much I did not care about Rocket and Thor >> And I was just like, I don't even think that helped. Like I was like, I don't
[36:31] really I don't I don't necessarily need this, but I also don't think I need any clarification on how Thor felt about his mom. I already knew it hurt him. Like I knew how much of his mom like he felt when he went and saw her again with
[36:44] >> I was like, yeah, eh. But I feel like Logan is like so much easier to be like, here's what I want, and I think we can do this so linear, so nicely. Wrap that to make New Mutants and [ __ ] [laughter] Dark Phoenix right after. But
[36:59] was never going to be another movie afterwards. >> That I love the way that And that's why we why I don't even include anything they wrote it so perfectly for a finisher.
[37:11] >> And I think that um you you brought up something there that the reason Logan minds is it does feel corrective. And like X-Men Origins and even James Mangold's The Wolverine and X-Men The
[37:25] Last Stand, these movies did make some, in viewers' minds, mistakes with like adapting the character that this movie has the benefit of hindsight to correct. Um with Endgame, Marvel Studios went into Endgame with like a full quality
[37:39] sprint. Like people thought like, Marvel has never really made that big of a mistake, so Endgame is just like just kind of riding that momentum to tell like a good finale. With Doomsday, though, I think here's where we can kind
[37:52] going to look at Logan's road map. Doomsday, some of the things that the Russo brothers and and Robert Downey Jr. have said in various interviews is that they kind of talk about Doomsday as, "We're righting the ship right now. We
[38:07] understand that you feel fatigue for whatever caused that. Doomsday is going there's going to be certain things that we see in Doomsday that uh the way Logan did
[38:22] fix the problems that are perceived within the fandom. New Day seems to be doing that, too. Tom Holland talks about how he's on a credit you can do that with Spider-Man and you can do that with the other things Russo
[38:35] did. Can you do that with the Fantastic Four? Like I that's Can you do that with Thunderbolts? Like I don't think you can correct every time. And also like I don't want you touching Black Panther. Like I don't want you touching Wakanda.
[38:47] not allowed to correct it. Give it to Ryan Coogler. don't think they're saying we're going to correct Wakanda, but >> ooh, you guys got fatigue? Well, cuz I also think Black Panther solves that
[38:59] fatigue problem, too, like Logan does. It's like it's still dramatic piece in a in its own way that stayed away a little bit from the MCU, but I do think I think they I think they can get dramatic and as great thematically as
[39:12] Logan is, it's just real I I'm not going to bash them if they don't because it's so hard. I do think like you have They didn't work on every every Marvel character in this movie and now they have to steer that ship. And
[39:26] Chris Evans, and [ __ ] oh Robert Downey Jr. coming back as Doctor Doom because they've had a rapport with about the other 17 people that we just added?
[39:38] like >> I I think like yeah, I don't think the were confused by that one episode of Moon Knight and then another episode of >> What If? I don't think they yeah, I don't even think they watched all of the
[39:51] shows, but they definitely watched the movies. To be fair, you just have to I don't even who >> Do you think the Russo brothers watched Did they watch Quantumania? >> Okay, and that's an important [laughter]
[40:04] You have TO KNOW WHAT QUANTUMANIA IS. >> PROBABLY DID. THEY PROBABLY did just don't think they watched Ant-Man 2. I don't think they watched Ant-Man and the >> one is less important to watch for >> saying I think they watched Quantumania,
[40:17] >> I think their assistants watched Quantumania. but I don't think they watched like any >> I think they watched Loki cuz everyone has like
[40:29] >> It's not too many episodes to watch. It's only 12 episodes. >> Waldron. >> Well, yeah, then they work with >> worked on season 1 of Loki. He's who did a pass on the script. So I think the
[40:41] Loki connection's going to be there. Uh I think they watched Thunderbolts and in the room when those were being made. >> think they watched half of WandaVision >> [laughter] >> But they but but but they watched it
[40:55] care for this show." >> There's there's no [ __ ] way the Russo >> They're not watching Hawkeye. They're not watching Agatha. probably they probably didn't even turn on Ms. Marvel to be fair. I oh I bet
[41:09] >> The movie The Marvels >> see The Marvels. They did not see The They watched Eternals, but they didn't see The Marvels. That's Chloé Zhao. So >> I don't I don't know, Jen. >> I think they I think they still respect
[41:21] respect big directors. Nia DaCosta was still newish to them at least or well, new to them, not for us. But Chloé Zhao is Chloé Zhao. Like I'm sure they >> They're not going to talk about it. THERE'S NO ETERNALS AND IF I SEE IT, ONE
[41:35] OF THEM IN THIS MOVIE, I'm going to be upset. [laughter] >> So but what I think like uh in terms of just the spirit of correcting the past, do with Logan, he was even correcting his own past work. And I think part of
[41:49] we haven't had a chance to just like tell a no-holds-barred R-rated Logan story before that allows them to be as violent as a character with adamantium be. We haven't been able to show as much blood as we should be showing in all of
[42:03] these. So like let's finally tell that story. I think uh rather than say like they weren't making fun of X-Men: The Last Stand with this movie. And I'm not saying Doomsday is going to make fun of She-Hulk, but I think what we will see
[42:16] is like a confidence restoration. Like I think that's what the Russo brothers are saying is that Marvel fans feel fatigued because they just don't understand what the core narrative mission of this franchise is. And we're going to answer
[42:29] feel like we're in something called a multiverse saga, but what the [ __ ] does that even mean? And I think Doomsday is going to answer these questions by there are things called incursions. There's a reason those incursions are
[42:42] happening. There's some There's a guy called Doctor Doom out there who had personal heartbreak as a result of those incursions. And here is his attempt to try to address those incursions. >> Yeah. Do you think that that even if
[42:55] that scene is like so transformative, do you think that it can still be overwhelmed by everything else in the movie and make you like take take connection? >> You mean like having the X-Men show up?
[43:08] >> even like the X-Men show up, but just like I feel like this is the hard part, fans, you're trying to get new people involved. Superhero fatigue I think does have its levels. It's definitely like superhero fatigue for the fans. Then
[43:21] for people that are just tired of seeing superhero movies show up in theaters there's like so many different levels to it. So if you're trying to like please everyone and you give us that Logan thematic moment for Doctor Doom, but
[43:35] thematic moment for Doctor Doom, but then the next scene I see is just like Sam Wilson's Captain America [laughter] jumping off of like the the Indian Ocean. The Celestial that's halfway out of the Yeah. If it go If If
[43:50] you're giving me half of the theme of Logan or just like the feel of Logan and then you give me half of whatever his movie was Not brand new day. What was it will take me out of it. >> Russo brothers definitely need to watch
[44:03] >> I was thinking about Black Widow. >> Oh. Maybe they did it cuz it was on >> SHE'S GOING TO YELL AT US BECAUSE IT home. I bet they watched Black Widow. >> They probably watched Black Widow. They
[44:17] Widow. That's [ __ ] up. You you ran her movie. Well, they're not ran her movie, >> It's so funny to imagine Joe and Anthony Russo playing this game of what Marvel >> ones with the charac- the main characters of their movies. Oh, they
[44:31] but if their character if the characters That's insane. >> I think they may have watched Captain directed the previous two Captain America movies.
[44:44] you're right. We'll just say like what is pertinent and what's not. And not are fans like we are. It's Marvel telling them directly like oh, he does >> I'm sure. >> So it's really funny cuz I've I've met
[44:58] one of them and he just seems so tired. I'm like there's no way while you were like working on that Agbo with all these other Agbo productions for the past 5 things. >> You better off.
[45:11] You wanted to make it. >> Netflix wanted [laughter] to make it. >> Netflix wanted them to make it. >> Yeah, you make a really good point about like the different tiers of franchise fatigue and I don't think Doomsday will
[45:23] >> I there's just no way. Reading there's so many great articles I think written by different like kind of I wouldn't >> snobs >> Well, it's like it's in the New York
[45:36] yeah, you're not like of a journalist like going over and talking about it, discussing it. And she thought it was a really great article, but I was like yeah, your grievances are
[45:50] >> Right. >> And then our grievances are definitely not the same as people that love obsession, love weapons, love all these other original movies and they're like my theater got bumped to show
[46:02] were like upset being like, "Oh, I want to see Sinners. I missed it. It was sold for Thunderbolts." Like they get tired of just seeing those things. And I'm people. So, which one are you going to try pleasing? The fans or the new
[46:16] >> I think the fans. >> You You have to for a an Avengers movie. >> And I I think what the Russo's are trying to do, just based off of like they've been saying, is that they recognize like
[46:30] despite that a lot of people not seeing the recent Marvel titles over the past five or six years, they understand that like regardless of that, Marvel is still the biggest brand in entertainment. And
[46:43] they're going to make a movie that addresses the fact that that brand is kind of like They're calling their movie Doomsday, you know? They're They're going to embrace the idea of blowing up this universe in a way that has never
[46:55] been blown up before. Um and I I think they really do feel like they can make a movie that addresses that kind of fatigue, that concern, that sense of why am I watching this. Um and I think they feel like they have
[47:09] "Ah, it's going to be fine." >> Well, people are going to see it Spider-Man. I was like, "It does not matter when this trailer comes out. I'm still going to see this movie just as long as just as well as everybody else
[47:21] me a trailer three weeks before Doomsday comes out and I'm still going to see Doomsday. That's crazy. >> Yeah. Um let's quickly address how this movie was made and and like cuz there's just some
[47:33] get to our box office challenge. Uh so, the budget was only $127 million. It ended up making quite a bit more than that. It's one of the highest scored uh on the Rotten Tomato meter
[47:46] any superhero movie, 93%. Um Metacritic's only 77%. Uh got a CinemaScore of A- minus. But often you see uh minus A- minus or B plus if like a major character dies or if it's overly violent or if overly scary. Like horror
[48:00] movies always get like lower CinemaScore for the most part. Okay, so how this Jackman of course had worked together on The Wolverine in 2013. Right after that James Mangold opened up the possibility of a of a third movie stress saying that
[48:14] to free ourselves from some assumptions that had exist in the past and be able construct a story that's built more on character and character issues in a way superhero movie yet it features their powers and struggles and things. Hugh
[48:30] Jackman added quote I'm generally quote I'm genuinely at the point where unless it's better than the last one, I'm not going to do it. I love the intimacy of that story. I like the small stuff. I like that it's a little
[48:42] unexpected. Inspiration for the story was drawn from films as disparate as Eastwood's Unforgiven. And James Mangold says that Jackman was heavily involved interested in finding a new angle from which to explore Xavier both as a
[48:56] character in his own right and as a father figure for Wolverine. Hugh of that quasi father-son sort of relationship that has been seen before and sides of particularly Professor X that have not been seen before. Uh
[49:09] principal photography lasted from May to August of 2016. Most of the production Mexico. So the desert scenes were in the deserts of New Mexico. All the the city scenes were all in Louisiana including the Harris Casino that we see.
[49:22] they had to shoot all the shots of uh X-23 casino floor are all beautifully green screened. >> She's a minor. You can't walk into a casino floor unless you're escorted by
[49:36] Louisiana law. >> some old ass law that they're like this is funny. We're going to shoot >> You can get Huey Long to come in here >> AND GET YOUR CHILD from the slots to the
[49:50] blackjack [laughter] table. Oh, but only if Huey Long himself >> NO. >> THE PERSON THAT'S ACTUALLY IN THE CITY. niece >> That's so funny.
[50:03] >> That's actually interesting to hear about though cuz I was like, "Oh, maybe day they could do it." But I'm like, "No, I think it's genuinely a legal rule casino." >> But the plate looks really good. Like
[50:16] You know, people are like, "Oh, I hate green screen. I hate CGI." Good that feels seamless. Like David Fincher, every single one of David Fincher's films in contain an insane amount of CGI that you just don't even notice cuz he's
[50:29] obsessive and seamless about it. Um, there's some plates of uh of X-23 casino slots behind her and you don't even notice. Um, they uh all the shots uh the exterior shots,
[50:42] the roadside, the the frat boys, not frat boys, they're like high school prom boys who are in the sunroof of the limousine, that's all in Louisiana. And they make it look like several different cities. It's all really well shot. Um,
[50:56] specifically, I remember this movie was marketed with uh the Johnny Cash cover of Nine Inch Nails' Hurt in their first trailer. Uh, of course Trent Reznor said that he wrote Hurt really spiritually for Johnny Cash even though they
[51:08] recorded it with themselves first. So when Johnny Cash later uh covered it, he imagined the song to sound like." And uh I remember that song and the way Johnny Cash's voice sounded so strained. And James Mangold's whole history with
[51:22] Johnny Cash from directing Walk the Line with Joaquin Phoenix 10 years before that, uh you really do get a sense of the full history of the filmmaker with kind of came together in almost this kind of like faded kismet throughout the
[51:36] marketing that just made me really excited for this film when it came out. Uh, the movie weirdly preceded with a uh Deadpool 2 teaser you remember seeing this teaser? >> No, and I saw this movie in theaters.
[51:50] see this movie in theaters, you would see a whole scene with like Deadpool in like a a phone booth. And he's talking to be coming next year.
[52:03] people going to see Logan and seeing this Deadpool 2 thing. But that's, you know, where Fox was in 2017. Um, yeah, uh, screenwriting element or element. This movie was much heralded for its
[52:18] written screenplay of the year and deserved to win best original screenplay. Or no, best adapted. It deserved to win best adapted because any sequels technically adapted. It's based on comics and I believe Jordan Peele
[52:30] deserved to win for best original, which he did for Get Out. Um, this movie did not. >> Well, one layer? Was it of Water. >> Was Shape of Water 2017? That was best
[52:43] >> Was Shape of Water 2017? That was best picture. Award. >> Oh, the best adapted screenplay, um, Oscar went to Call Me By Your Name in that that year at the Oscars.
[52:58] >> [laughter] >> Logan's a better screenplay. screenplay. But I want to I have not read the Call Me By Your Name >> It's It's I think it's an excellent movie that that works. Luca Guadagnino,
[53:11] man, I want to see his, uh, his open AI Sam Altman movie so bad. Have you heard that in the >> So, Amazon bought and paid for the Sam directed by Luca Guadagnino. And I was super excited for it and then Amazon's
[53:25] we're canceling that. We're going to sell it off to another buyer. And then We don't know. I can't wait I >> Oh, interesting. >> It's I wonder why Amazon canceled this critical AI movie. I wonder why.
[53:38] >> [laughter] >> Nope. >> Nope. >> This movie made a [ __ ] ton of money. do the box office challenge? Do you want to be quizzed?
[53:50] >> No, yeah, quiz me cuz you just named off every movie in 2017 that did really >> did all the Marvel ones. I didn't even I forgot that that was the year Homecoming >> Yeah, but none of them are none of them are in the top five. I'm sure you said
[54:03] >> And I'm not going to guess any of these. >> Let's start with the opening weekend. Um Logan uh won the opening weekend with $88 million. This is March 3rd, 2017. >> March 3rd, 2017.
[54:16] >> Uh the number two movie was the movie that came out in February, I believe, 2017. No, it came out Yeah, it came out like two weekends before in February 2017. Um it was the movie that we talked about
[54:30] >> No. >> Oh, is it um Oscar. >> Oh, oh, get out. number two that weekend with $28 million. The number three movie I'm not
[54:44] familiar with. Um it is a movie with Octavia Spencer. >> Uh Tim McGraw. >> Tim McGraw? Spider-Man: Brand New Day. >> is this movie? Wait.
[54:58] >> Wait, shut the hell Sam Worthington, Octavia Spencer WRITTEN BY DESTIN DANIEL Worthington. It's what he did between the >> I know who he is.
[55:12] was direct written by Destin Daniel Cretton? Just give me the movie is. >> It's called The Shack. It's like a fantasy drama film. >> watch this. It's number three at the [laughter] box office.
[55:26] Octavia Spencer? >> Yeah. >> Uh some guy. >> I'm going to watch that. I'm going to go it. Now I'm going to watch it. Okay, number four at the box office was let's
[55:40] >> Well, it's below this, the shark. >> Um but it came out I believe it came out in either January or No, it came out like in February. It's an animated stop-motion animated movie, a spin-off of a hugely popular toy-based
[55:53] stop-motion animated movie that came out in 2013. >> The first one did. This is a spin-off that's kind of also a superhero movie.
[56:06] >> Uh it's Lego Batman movie. >> I'm an idiot. Why'd you say When you >> I almost said Kubo. >> Well, arguably the Lego movies aren't >> you're But you're right, but I was I literally went like I was like, "Oh,
[56:19] out? That was not 2017. That was way earlier. >> Oh, by the way, yeah. I thought I was like, "Kubo?" And then when I said When wasn't really a superhero, but I guess he kind of was." The The first Lego
[56:31] >> Uh the first Lego movie came out in 2013. This is a Lego Batman >> It was a good one. >> A really, really good movie. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, the Ninjago
[56:45] Oh, number five at the box office that weekend in March 2017, it was the sequel weekend in March 2017, it was the sequel to a a very popular R-rated action movie that had come out in 2014. So, this movie The sequel came
[57:02] out in like probably January of 2017. >> It took that long? >> Yeah, because like the success of the first one was like, "Whoa, where did this movie come from?" Amazing stunts. Arguably it kind of changed the way
[57:16] R-rated stunts were shot and stunted in Hollywood. >> studio? >> Um I believe the studio was >> What the [ __ ] is it? What the [ __ ] is it? 2014 to 2017?
[57:29] Lionsgate's biggest franchise that's not The Hunger Games. >> It's not Jason Statham. >> No, but you're thinking correct. The directors of these movies, one of them would go on to direct uh Deadpool 2.
[57:43] >> Yes. Oh, [ __ ] Oh, no. Oh my god, shut up. It is um Damn it. Damn it. Damn it. >> Arguably the biggest action star or one of the biggest action stars.
[57:57] >> Well, the director I'm thinking of is >> Uh >> It's not Just give it to me. >> Okay, that was not what I was thinking. It took that long for John Wick 2 to
[58:10] >> I thought I literally my first guess was John Wick and I was like, "No, John Wick was coming out pretty quickly." Oh my god, John Wick 2. Okay. >> I was completely off. I was thinking it was um Oh god, his other one. But Okay,
[58:24] go off, John Wick 2. Jesus Christ. >> So, um we'll move on to the 2017 worldwide box office as top five. Uh Logan made a total of $619 million. It was number 15 >> Only 619?
[58:37] >> Yeah, I mean it's R-rated. It was >> Everybody likes it. Well, I say like it. >> but there were just a lot of other very popular movies. I'll say that the top five movies, none of them are Marvel. Um
[58:50] so like Spider-Man: Homecoming, Spi- um Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, Thor: >> of Water on there? >> No, Shape of Water >> no money. >> Um and then Get Out wouldn't be on
[59:02] >> Get Out did very well, but it was not a global hit the way these five were. Um but the number one movie, huge franchise, Christmas release. Yeah, I mean remember in like the late 2010s every Christmas we had one of
[59:17] these movies. Huge One of the biggest franchises, >> Mhm. >> Because it's already done by then. >> It's a franchise that's now considered kind of dead. It's like a dead old man's
[59:30] >> [laughter] >> So, which Star Wars came out in 2017? worst one. >> Well, it depends who you're talking to. >> Okay. So, it's not the first one. It's the second one, yes. The Last Jedi.
[59:43] >> There's a lot of people who consider that one to be the worst Star Wars >> The third one is Maybe I'm wrong. What do you Is the third one the third one. [laughter] >> Um yes. Universally people tend to hate
[59:57] The Rise of Skywalker. I do not think it is the worst Star Wars movie. >> One out of the three. Are you Are you just naming in general? movie?
[01:00:09] with everybody. Um I think the worst Star Wars movie is Attack of the Clones. I think Attack of the Clones is a very >> Number two? >> It's got some of the highest highs.
[01:00:23] it. >> in it but it's just overall the plot is >> in it but it's just overall the plot is like unwatchable at times in ways that I Clones. >> to go back and rewatch it.
[01:00:36] >> of the Clones has like sequences that I think are better than some of the highs garbage. I don't think either of these >> I think Rise of Skywalker >> Yikes. [laughter] Like The Rise of
[01:00:48] Skywalker I think is more disappointing because it is like Episode Nine. It's of the Clones is kind of like people are like, "Ah, it wasn't that great but man >> Yeah, and that's why I think I don't think about the second one cuz I'm like,
[01:01:03] >> Attack of the Clones in ways that they will never forgive of this trilogy cuz I'm like nothing else came after. completely fair people feel that way. >> that's why. Okay.
[01:01:15] >> I mean but The Mandalorian Grogu I wasn't too happy with. I I don't know. I Rise of Skywalker more than The >> That makes sense. I I think that's >> think The Mandalorian and Grogu is like,
[01:01:27] Rise of Skywalker, JJ Abrams in some scenes is cooking kind of. The Mandalorian and Grogu it's like, Favreau, like did someone point a gun at what happened? >> Well, I don't know if it's that bad, but
[01:01:40] >> but I also think they come with I think it when you said disappointment, that's it comes with a different disappointment. I I hold Star Wars to a higher degree than I do a spin-off.
[01:01:52] being a kid watching Attack of the Clones and being like, yeah, when Yoda showed up and pulled out the lightsaber. Um the full Geonosis sequence I think is happens in Attack of the Clones where I was like, yeah, but I remember being 13
[01:02:06] years old, 14 years old and being like, what the [ __ ] is that floating pear doing? Like, what? Like, I remember as [laughter] a kid still judging it as >> a child. >> Um but uh you know, I was in my 20s when
[01:02:19] The Rise of Skywalker came out and being like, my takes were already so diluted like, my takes were already so diluted by social media and other kind of issues I was having with the Disney era of the franchise that like, I don't I
[01:02:32] can't really judge my own opinion when I first saw The Rise of Skywalker and I like a lot of what JJ Abrams does as a filmmaker. So, I really liked that. It was just where the franchise was at that point that I was most disappointed.
[01:02:44] Skywalker once and it was in that theater where I almost [laughter] walked I was getting so irritated after a minute. I said, and it was my my sweet I was like, sit back down, we're going to finish the movie.
[01:02:56] >> I was one of like, Frank, we can go right now. I was like, let's go see >> [laughter] >> Okay, what's the Okay, so number one was >> was The Rise of Skywalker and it made 1.3 billion. Did very well.
[01:03:09] Um or no, it's The Last Jedi. I liked The Last Jedi, by the way. Last Jedi is like, at least in the top half of Star Wars movies for me, despite it being a flawed movie. The Canto Bight subplot is stupid, but damn, everything with Luke
[01:03:21] in that movie. I even loved the Crait's battle of the the red dust. Rian Johnson He's like, "Never again." >> No, I'm going to make murder mysteries. >> Um all right, number two at the worldwide box office in 2017 was a
[01:03:36] live-action Disney remake. >> 2017, is this Beauty and the Beast? >> Correct. Made 1.26 billion dollars. >> WHAT WHAT THE [ __ ] What the [ __ ] that I [ __ ] hate that people don't understand is that like every every
[01:03:53] bit younger, you will hate those live-action remakes so [ __ ] much. that's why they're not going to stop. Lilo and Stitch made too much money. >> Beauty and the Beast and Cinderella actually were pretty good. Like pretty
[01:04:07] like what what Guy Ritchie did with Aladdin was garbage. >> Bro, your first mistake was doing getting Guy Ritchie on Aladdin. That's >> Yeah. >> That was such a weird bull. Cinderella,
[01:04:21] boring, but I did really love Lily James because of that. That's what made me start watching her [ __ ] Uh Beauty and the Beast was awful. Uh Emma Watson Josh Gad >> Hermione cannot sing to save her life
[01:04:34] not hit those notes. And yeah, I can't sing either, but you don't see me going Belle from Beauty and the Beast, but I will always love Emma Watson. She can do >> Number three at the worldwide box office in 2017 uh was the eighth of a major
[01:04:50] >> I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say Fast and the Furious. said eight, I said, "Oh, it's probably Fast and the Furious." >> think it's the longest-running franchise other than like and I don't include
[01:05:02] >> yeah. >> It's the same actors. universe. >> can take pauses. You can be like, "Oh, give it to this. It's like, no, every year it has to have this [ __ ]
[01:05:16] >> [laughter] >> Same person. >> ABOUT MOVIES. >> MEDEA BOO! MEDEA HALLOWEEN IS CINEMA. best one, to be fair. >> It is the best one.
[01:05:28] >> It's the only one I've seen. >> Let me tell you, and if Tyler Perry then I don't want to watch it. >> Yeah, no. [laughter] No, no, no. He understands the assignment. All right, number four was the third movie of
[01:05:40] another very popular animated franchise. >> It's not Despicable It's not Yeah, keep >> Oh, is it Is not Despicable Me, is it? >> It is. Despicable Me 3 >> Three, yeah, I was like >> made $1.03 billion in 2017.
[01:05:53] >> Hell yeah, they're making >> they're making I want to know how much >> right now? >> Uh well, when you watch this, I think 500 million worldwide audience. You'll tell us in the comments. But I think
[01:06:07] >> It's going to make so much money. I can't wait to see their end goal on that movie of the year. I think it's going to outperform Doomsday. going to get well over a bill. I think so. Is it not? Is it not prepared
[01:06:20] >> easily going to get over a bill worldwide. That's That's the literal Yeah, that it's going to make I think it's going to make 1.6. you know, Matthew Belloni number prediction here right now. I think Toy
[01:06:34] >> Ooh, that's high. >> Avengers Doomsday will make 1.65 >> And I think Spider-Man Brand New Day will make 1.7 billion. I think it will. I think it will. It's It's It's Spider-Man.
[01:06:48] >> Uh >> And it's also not taking time during a long run. >> gives you a bump a little bit, but it also doesn't on like opening numbers, I think. Sometimes, sometimes, it depends.
[01:07:02] sometimes when the world's burning, the world's burning. And we don't have time to go see a movie. >> We'll revisit this clip in February of theatrical run ends. We'll know for sure.
[01:07:14] >> All right, the number five movie at the worldwide box office in 2017 >> make a bill? >> It No, it made $962 million. >> Um they're making a third one of these
[01:07:27] this year, 2026. We saw it on uh their presentation on the first night of CinemaCon. Um big big kind of remake franchise with >> You said this >> You go into the game.
[01:07:44] >> You go into the game. The title is a AC/DC song. But it's a big franchise. >> I'm I'm so mad that I'm spacing on this. I'm stuck on the CinemaCon part where it has a bunch of stars and we've seen it.
[01:07:56] >> Um let's see. Joe Jonas is in this franchise. it didn't make a bill. This This is the This is the first one. Jumanji. >> Yes, Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle. It
[01:08:09] was the first of uh well, technically the second in the Jumanji franchise. The >> And shut the [ __ ] up. whenever I can cuz it is Jumanji in space. It's Jumanji in space. Uh but
[01:08:23] Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle from December 2017 did uh relaunch than Spider-Man. Um >> Mhm. >> Why am I not I think it was Universal.
[01:08:36] does a lot of Universal things that I'm getting distracted. >> Yeah. So, Disney [snorts] did win the global box office in 2017 with Star Wars: The Last Jedi and Beauty and the Beast, but not with Marvel. Despite Mar-
[01:08:48] Marvel retakes the crown. >> Also, these were like the There's one year we did the box office challenge five spots. It was like a Fast and
[01:09:00] Furious movie. It was Despicable Me and uh the another like child movie that like, "Yeah, Universal doesn't give fuck." >> They stick onto that IP that makes a bill a cool bill. Damn. These children
[01:09:13] >> [laughter] >> Children movies. One point How much did >> Uh 1.2 yeah 1.something billion. Yeah, it's number two. 1.26 billion. >> Oh my god. What the [ __ ]
[01:09:28] >> Well, uh Logan didn't need to make that much money. Just 619 a modest 619 million dollars and still is on the Mount Rushmore of best >> awards did those other movies get nominated for? I bet Logan Yeah, shut
[01:09:43] than A LOT [laughter] OF THEM. YOU'RE LIKE, "WELL, STAR Wars definitely >> It got some technical categories. Uh the Mount quick quick Mount Rushmore of Dark Knight, uh Endgame or
[01:09:59] of best >> hard. This is hard because you're excluding It's like >> Black Panther can go on there. I think they're still You'd have to show me because I'm like I feel like there's
[01:10:13] going to remember right now that is not Marvel or DC. a really great movie." But I can't remember what it is. Cuz I'm like I want to put Logan up there. Logan's the first place. Mo-
[01:10:25] Ooh, or is he Lincoln? [laughter] >> I'm not going to assign specific Logan might be Lincoln. Lemo- Will Logan be Lincoln? No, Logan's >> Keep Keep going. Logan's Washington. I feel like you have to put Iron Man up
[01:10:39] there because it's Iron Man. Well, >> either Iron Man or the Falcon and the Winter Soldier or not the Falcon uh Captain America Winter Soldier >> one inspired Which one inspired it all? Like which one started
[01:10:51] >> Iron Man has to go there. Cuz when you do like the Disney like the Disney original series ones, you always put Raven-Symoné for That's So Raven because she really started the ball, her and Hilary Duff for Hannah Montana and
[01:11:06] Wizards of Waverly Place to Walk. So it's like you got to give it to Iron Man >> Yeah. >> So Iron Man, Logan but I don't think I can. >> No, no. I think Iron Man takes the spot.
[01:11:19] And then I guess the question is I think the fourth spot goes to 2018 Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. >> Oh oh do do do do do. Yeah, no, okay. So that and then you put Dark Knight. So those are four.
[01:11:33] >> So three Marvel, one DC. I guess like Richard Donner's Superman is great. It is a great superhero movie but not in the way that like these other four are. a lot of great movies but you're comparing them to these ones which I
[01:11:48] can't do. >> I know you want to chip off Miles Morales' face and put Ezra Miller from The Flash on there. >> Mount Rushmore has to have one black man on it.
[01:12:00] >> And it's Miles Morales. >> MILES AND IT'S 14-YEAR-OLD Miles Morales. Well, that movie literally was transformative. It It changed what my eyes could see how far animation could go.
[01:12:13] understood like yeah, visual effects is very hard. That's where I like really began but then actually like seeing this was like oh yeah, are these people being paid? Like it was like it's so beautiful. You
[01:12:26] weirdo on the line. >> [laughter] course the first black live-action Spider-Man's being Whatever you want to call him is being a [ __ ] freakazoid. I was getting SO MAD. SO GET OUT GET OFF
[01:12:39] OF INSTAGRAM AND GET IN THE [ __ ] BOOTH, SHAMEIK. GOD, he's so weird. Why >> [laughter] >> I hope he finds it. Dude, you'd you so [ __ ] weird, dude? Haley's over there
[01:12:53] with a baby now enjoying her life and you're being weird. You're being weird. >> He's like, "No, let me come over there." I'm like, "No." recasting. >> [laughter]
[01:13:07] Don't. >> Josh, he's he'll tire himself out. >> He's like, "Well, Zendaya and Tom Holland got married, WHY CAN'T WE?" >> SHAMEIK! >> OH, WE LOVE YOU, SHAMEIK. Come on the
[01:13:20] I'm praying for you, my boy. There is I haven't prayed in such A LONG TIME. >> NOT SINCE BOO! A Madea Halloween, I think. from my family." >> [laughter]
[01:13:32] The Road to Doomsday. We hope you enjoyed hanging out with us talking Marvel fatigue and how Doomsday's going to fix what Logan fixed with the X-Men universe. Uh, thank you to Jessica Clements for uh, hosting with me. This
[01:13:46] thanks to Brian Kim for live producing this episode and Berg for producing and all of the research Berg does. To Eric Gorde for all the post-production and editing that Eric does. For all the editors at New Rockstars, Josh and Abby,
[01:13:59] special thanks to one of our Inner Underground subscribers, Tam, for supporting us at the executive producer level. Like Tam, you can get all of our podcast feed by going to innerunderground.supercast.com
[01:14:13] including this podcast, The Road to Doomsday, early. Everyone, have a safe and um, uh, patriotic or however you celebrate July 4th, we hope you Uh, and go watch, I don't know, Saving Private Ryan or something.
[01:14:28] >> However you want to do it, eat some barbecue. Uh, don't set off fireworks if your state is having a drought. >> don't be doing that here, period, in >> state of California, please never period. Even if you are in a wet place,
[01:14:43] now. >> Our oceans can't handle sparklers? the ocean. >> I I think right. >> And they can't they can't stand poppets
[01:14:56] [laughter] in there. >> Thanks for watching everyone and we'll see you next week on the road to doomsday. Bye-bye.