---
title: 'State of Laravel 2025: Results and My Opinion'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=tmpZZ9fzZgk'
video_id: 'tmpZZ9fzZgk'
date: 2026-08-12
duration_sec: 3482
---

# State of Laravel 2025: Results and My Opinion

> Source: [State of Laravel 2025: Results and My Opinion](https://youtube.com/watch?v=tmpZZ9fzZgk)

## Summary

In this live stream, Povilas Korop analyzes the results of the State of Laravel 2025 survey, discussing key trends in the Laravel ecosystem. He covers topics such as the decline in survey participation, the rise of TypeScript and React, the growing popularity of PostgreSQL, and the community's mixed feelings about Laravel's shift towards enterprise and commercial products. The stream also includes audience questions and personal insights on the future direction of Laravel.

### Key Points

- **Why Big Companies Prefer Java/.NET** [03:36] — Povilas suggests that the preference for Java and .NET in large companies is often a political and budget decision rather than a technical one. Laravel lacks the branding and compliance that enterprise companies require, though the team is working on this with products like Laravel Cloud and Nightwatch.
- **Decline in Survey Completions** [07:12] — The number of completed surveys dropped by about 20%. Povilas attributes this to developers leaving Twitter (due to algorithm changes and Elon Musk's takeover) and a general decline in active social media participation. Many developers now get news from YouTube or LinkedIn instead.
- **Fewer Newcomers to Laravel** [10:14] — The survey shows more experienced developers and fewer newcomers. Povilas believes this is because new developers start with more hyped technologies like React or Python, and Laravel/PHP is not promoted by universities or bootcamps. The community needs to work on advertising Laravel to juniors.
- **Code Editor Trends and AI** [18:48] — PHPStorm usage dropped from 54% to 47%, likely because AI-powered editors like Cursor and Windsurf are not listed as options. Povilas himself switched from PHPStorm to Cursor. He notes that VS Code and its forks are likely to grow even more in 2026.
- **TypeScript's Rise** [21:20] — TypeScript is skyrocketing in popularity due to its use in Laravel starter kits (React and Vue), its benefits for AI-generated code stability, and tools like Wayfinder that generate TypeScript. Povilas advises developers to try TypeScript to understand its growing importance.
- **PostgreSQL's Unexpected Jump** [31:04] — PostgreSQL saw a huge 10% jump in usage, which Povilas finds surprising. He speculates it may be related to AI and vector databases, but he doesn't see a clear reason within the Laravel ecosystem. He suggests it might be a trend worth investigating.
- **Inertia vs. API and Livewire** [33:43] — Inertia is growing because it's now a first-party Laravel package and offers a faster development experience for small teams. Livewire, however, has stopped growing, possibly due to perceptions of slowness and complexity for large UIs. Povilas believes Livewire should be more popular but acknowledges the challenges.
- **Drop in Agreement with Laravel's Direction** [47:02] — The survey shows a 7% drop in strong agreement with Laravel's direction. Povilas attributes this to Laravel becoming a business focused on enterprise products like Laravel Cloud and Nightwatch, which may not resonate with smaller teams. He notes that the framework itself is stable, but the commercial focus is growing.

### Conclusion

The State of Laravel 2025 survey reveals a community that is growing in experience but not in numbers, with significant shifts towards TypeScript, React, and AI-powered tools. While Laravel's direction towards enterprise is a point of contention, the framework remains stable and the ecosystem continues to evolve, with opportunities for community-driven growth and marketing.

## Transcript

hi if you're here. I'm starting a minute earlier. Just to double check if you hear me, if you see me. And those of you who will watch for the first like a few minutes. I see four
people already. At least the number is here. You can have a chance to ask me questions personally in the chat and we can talk before the main topic of state of Laravel. Hello, we have Pika in the chat. Great.
So, someone actually sees me. Uh, another test. I will share my screen and another test. I will share my screen and we'll see if you actually see my screen.
So, does it work? Do you see the state of Laravel survey homepage? Please reply of Laravel survey homepage? Please reply in the chat. Hello Yasine. Hello in the chat. Hello Yasine. Hello Antonia.
anyone has any questions or conversation starters before we dive into Hello from starters before we dive into Hello from Japan. Uh my actually my daughter has a dream to travel to Japan. So I think at some point we will uh we will do that.
I've never been to Japan but I love the philosophy of the country. I read the book about eeky guy about Japan culture culture. So I'm a big fan but too far to travel with kids. So maybe one day and I think they are talking about Laravel
life Japan at some point with Riuta organizing that. So, we'll see if it happens and we'll see when when I uh when I get there.
conversation starter and I think that video will be of course afterwards video will be of course afterwards published so you can watch that later. Hello Javanni from Italy. I'm a big fan of Italy as well. My family is traveling
to Italy once a year now because you have like separate near Milano and one near Rome. Uh it was kind of a village for kids. Really fascinating concept where like you have thousand of small houses and then uh pool with mini discos
and everything together. So yeah, our favorite uh favorite vacation type with family now with 9year-old and fouryear-old. So yeah, fan of Italy as well. Uh yeah, I don't see any questions in
the chat. I see 39 people watching and lurking. Uh so I guess I will slowly start. Actually, let's wait for a few people more to
let's talk about the timing. Is the timing good for you? because I think I will go live on Fridays when I'm free on Fridays, but I'm not sure about what time of the day. To me personally, this time is best because uh kids are at
school, wife is at work, and I can do whatever. But then in the afternoon, whatever. But then in the afternoon, it's not it's not so easy. So is for me it's 10:00 a.m. So I'm not sure how many people will turn up for this live stream
versus if I do that later in the evening Europe time. Um Abdullah is asking yeah we have the first question from the audience. Why do big companies prefer Java andnet over
Laravel? I think this is interesting. We've been talking about Laravel in We've been talking about Laravel in enterprise at Laravel at Laracon US in enterprise at Laravel at Laracon US in the US uh with a beer. Uh it's
interesting. Seems like those companies like Microsoft and Oracle and other corporate companies kind of hijacked the market of bigger companies and this is almost a political decision to go with those other frameworks and Laravel
doesn't have the branding enough yet. Taylor and the team are working on that with Laravel Cloud and Nightw Watch and others and they work on compliance. I've seen that a few times on Twitter. So it's not that much about technical
decisions to not use Laravel for enterprise but it's mostly political and budget decisions I think and historically also Laravel is great for rapid development. This is what it's for originally initially. Uh so yeah maybe
it's not in the philosophy of of enterprise and bigger companies. can hear you in my background. Yeah, I think that for live streams, some people
will just uh turn me on in the background, which is fine. And I don't want to interrupt anyone's anyone's work. Um, and follow-up question by Abdullah. Do you see Laravel being used in big
projects? Yeah, I do see that. I I see some open source projects on Laravel some open source projects on Laravel Dailycom. Actually, let me let me share in the chat. There's resources.
resources. There's open-source projects. Yep. So, there are open-source projects based on Laravel. based on Laravel. So, a few bigger ones are here.
So, a few bigger ones are here. Uh, and yeah, but uh and there's also a Staler. uh showcase. No, not made with Laravel.
Uh built with Laravel. Yep, that's the one. Uh so yeah, the list of companies who do use Laravel. For some of them, we do know the exact project. For some of them, we just know that from their job uh work ads or something like that. So
pretty big brands using Laravel. It's just not that public uh for Laravel. Okay, we're five minutes in. So let's dive into state of Laravel survey
and actually uh there are a lot of results uh I've been watching closely Laravel survey every year since its beginning in 2021 I every year since its beginning in 2021 I think it was the first survey uh or 2020
think it was the first survey uh or 2020 not sure uh yeah so Toby Petri is the author of that survey not sure if you've seen that survey I'll also put it in the chat Here we have 59 people online. Great. Uh this
stream by the way will be like 30 minutes or up to 45. I'm not sure if we have something to talk about. We can get up to 45. Uh so yeah, state of Laravel. Let's get back to the results. The link is in the chat. And I want to make some
interpretations about the results. And all the results are pretty stable year overyear. And only some questions do like jump. And this shows the trends for that specific year. And the first trend I want to discuss is actually this one
completed surveys. And this is not that much about Laravel. So Tobiius was asking me to share the survey. I did that on YouTube separate video multiple times on Twitter and LinkedIn and I don't even remember where more. But
still uh even with my attempts and attempts from other community members less completed surveys fewer competed completed surveys and it feels like I'm not sure we can discuss that that quite a lot of developers are not on Twitter
anymore and we discussed that also at Larcon US. So they moved to where uh because still announcements of everything breaking news are still on Twitter. So, Laravel announcements about Laravel cloud or whatever they release.
It's on Twitter. Taylor is tweeting and this is by far the number one uh source this is by far the number one uh source of news and new releases. But a lot of people don't actively participate on Twitter. Of course, the reason is the
Twitter. Of course, the reason is the algorithm gone really bad and also Elon Musk taken over. So, this is maybe personal, but then the question is they went to where from Twitter. So there was Masttodon, there was Pinkery by Noo-Noo,
there was uh what's what's the word? Blue Sky. Uh also there's LinkedIn. Some of people move to LinkedIn and I see that in my feed because LinkedIn I sometimes I get more LinkedIn likes than on Twitter. So LinkedIn is kind of
booming. But it feels like a lot of people just left social media at all like from active uh reading social media. And this result of this survey media. And this result of this survey like 20% fewer uh survey completions is
we can discuss in the chat while I'm talking you can uh share your opinion about where are you on social media? Are you on Twitter? Do you do you participate? Do you read tweets or what is your source of news about Laravel?
are you? Or are you just uh watching YouTube videos for example? I think that for me personally it didn't change much because people still watch YouTube and they probably go to YouTube homepage where my videos are recommended but
Twitter got really bad and Twitter was number one source for that state of Laravel survey uh kind of spreading the word. So I think this number means fewer developers Laravel developers but also in general just fewer on Twitter and
fewer on social media. Just let me know in the chat if you agree or not. Uh then developer profile. I don't want to stop on that too much on the demographics. I don't think it's that important to be honest. Like location, you maybe can
make some conclusions from like South America growing, but it's it's not that relevant in my opinion. I want to stop on technical things, years of programming experience. This is a bit interesting. So there are more people
more experienced people in Laravel community I would say and fewer people starting with Laravel not that fewer but it's not it's not growing so this is an
interesting I don't know trend we can probably call trend uh that many people probably call trend uh that many people many newcomers to web development do not start with Laravel for whatever reason and of course the the typical reason is
they start with whatever is the most hyped and the most popular on the market which is React probably and React ecosystem around that and JavaScript and ecosystem around that and JavaScript and NodeJS uh for AI probably Python and
Laravel for web development isn't isn't advertised as much by universities by advertised as much by universities by boot camps by like anything official boot camps by like anything official offered in in academia. Uh so yeah I
think that's the reason and it's not easy to change the trends of the market with Laravel community. We are doing well everything we can to kind of advertise Laravel as popular language and I see tweets all the time of people
like wow I tried Laravel and it's fascinating and it's it's like the best in class but to try for people to try to convince them to try it's like there are
some I don't know misconceptions or prerequisites or not sure what is the word even for people to just not touch PHP and Laravel as their first programming language. because their friends don't use that. It's not sexy
anymore. So that trend is still I think in action. Uh and I'm not sure again in the chat we can discuss what can we do as a community or I personally to get more juniors more newcomers to Laravel ecosystem. In fact in Laravel core they
did a lot of things about that when they released like PHP. the installation process. uh Laravel herd it was part of that and also a lot of things just to start with Laravel as quickly as possible like SQLite change was also
possible like SQLite change was also part of that uh like past maybe well past is debatable because testing is probably not the first thing that they touch the juniors but anyway from framework point of view to start with
Laravel became much easier but uh still it didn't move the needle as much as it didn't move the needle as much as probably I would like too and similar thing years of Laravel experience. So from that question it's
actually a similar question but the number is even lower here. So less than one year with Laravel is kind of on the lower end and then 10 plus years is growing. So basically what I see here is a lot of developers like the OGs who
were with Laravel from the beginning like myself I count like 10 years like myself I count like 10 years probably 11 years I started in 2014 yeah so 11 years uh I started from Laravel 4.2 with Jeffrey way Tutts plus so a lot
of people like myself are in Laravel community and fewer people uh fewer newcomers. I will actually now look at the chat and probably we can discuss the chat and probably we can discuss along the way. Uh I see uh the question
about multi-tenency. I will go through other non-related questions in the second part of this video. Uh JA is saying don't use Twitter, use LinkedIn and YouTube. So yeah, I see that trend. Uh I see that trend as well.
Uh Pika is on Twitter. Uh deleted my Twitter account when Ellen remember that tweet like let let that sink in. Uh yeah. Okay.
Uh Stanis Lovas is asking u my fellow Lithuanian uh to transfer to Laravel. I Lithuanian uh to transfer to Laravel. I will answer that a bit later. Uh JC maximizing the Laravel ecosystem. Um promoted. So you're saying it should
Um promoted. So you're saying it should be promoted by by whom and how exactly? Um P is saying that yeah a lot of people saying PHP is dead. So that old old thing is is still a thing no matter how how other people shout like PHP is not
dead proving Laravel and Symfony it's it's all fine but yeah it's hard to convince uh Dave finally catching it live. Great. So Dave maybe for you this timing is better. I'm still experimenting with what time of the day
experimenting with what time of the day is better for live stream. Uh second language after confusion PHP was yeah I remember cold fusion back in the day a really long time ago. Abdel is using LinkedIn. Uh Laracon should also
using LinkedIn. Uh Laracon should also focus to Laravel newcomers. This is a problem because Laracon is for for experienced developers even from pricing like for juniors to have that expense of a few thousand dollars with traveling
and hotels. I don't think it should be focused on newcomers, but maybe that's an interesting idea. Maybe we should have a separate conference or event or live stream or whatever specifically for newcomers. H actually I will make a note
for myself. Where do I make a note? Actually, give me a minute.
is the best way to make notes. Pen and paper uh live stream for newcomers. This paper uh live stream for newcomers. This is actually I think it's a good idea.
is actually I think it's a good idea. Okay. Uh, next, what's in the chat? Okay. Uh, next, what's in the chat? Uh, Blue Sky never kicked on. Yeah, Blue Sky was a hype, but it died down pretty quickly. Some people are still using
that. It's not like zero. Uh, yes. And followed you followed me on LinkedIn. Um, what happened to that Laravel boot camp? JC saying it's actually uh now was introduced at Laracon as
new URL learn.laravel.com. So this will be a set of a few courses for newcomers. But personally I don't like the uh the speed of how they are doing that. They're doing that pretty slowly. So boot camp was refreshed like
pretty long time ago and they don't advertise it that much. So I think a lot of you wouldn't even know that URL exists except from Laracon. So I think people like myself and other community members should like carry the flag for
members should like carry the flag for for PHP and advertise it. Um yes and you saying it's hard to find a job in France for Laravel. You mean so many Java offers? Uh so yeah the companies it's it's kind of like what's the word? Uh
it's kind of like what's the word? Uh what in motion? Um forgot the English language. Basically, the the trajectory is like Java is popular. It stays popular. Laravel is not popular. It's hard for for it to jump to popularity.
Uh hello from Iran. Hello Ali. Actually in Romania had a course on PHP. Yeah, great. Uh love Laravel because of filament. I agree. I have a filament channel because of that. Uh right.
Uh right. Uh okay don't see many more comments about PHP trends and social media so let's
continue with state of FLL and I will get to questions a bit later uh right okay let's get back do you still see my screen yep you should uh open source contributions this is probably staying roughly the same. So not much to comment
here. I will stop only on the on the questions that actually are trending like change the trend somewhat. Mac OS I think that was the jump in last year. Uh apart from that it's pretty stable with like Mac and Windows
percentages primary code editor. This is probably important and this was the question uh that I think it required more options with AI and of course probably this is the first
time I used the word AI in the stream and this is what like minute number 18 which is shocking everyone is talking about AI. Uh so yeah I think um there's no cursor there's no cloud code there's no codecs in the list and there are no
so many editors. So this is the reason probably why PHP storm has dropped to probably why PHP storm has dropped to 47% uh from 54. This includes me as well. I was a PHP storm user for like 10 years or so. Happy paying customer until
I tried cursor in the beginning of the year. Then I tried cloud code. Then I year. Then I tried cloud code. Then I tried uh like a lot of things for my uh other channel AI coding daily. I will actually for those of you who don't know
maybe I have a channel about specifically AI coding. So, subscribe to that. I'm getting close to 2,000 subscribers. You can help me get there sooner if you subscribe. Uh, so yeah. Uh, I've tried a lot of things, a lot of
Uh, I've tried a lot of things, a lot of editors. Uh, and basically, I'm I'm on PHP Storm because I don't use it anymore. Uh, I still use it sometimes. And I tried Juny in PHP Storm. It is
this way. It's not It's trying to catch up. It's usable now. It got better but still I mean I get better results with claude and now GPT5 with codeex seems to
claude and now GPT5 with codeex seems to be coming back. Uh so yeah with editors be coming back. Uh so yeah with editors I think VS code is like people who chose VS code probably mean cursor and wind surf and others as well. So yeah, so
it's probably hard times for PHP Storm, but actually while talking to Roman from Jet Brains at Laracon US, I realized that PHP Storm for Jet Brains as a company is just a small percentage. It's not PHP Storm as a company. It's like
WebStorm and all the other storms and other tools. It's almost like a corporate company. So for them, that drop of usage of PHP storm isn't that drop of usage of PHP storm isn't that significant financially probably. uh but
uh I would expect VS code and other like forks of VS code uh getting even higher in year 2026. Uh yeah so that's the code editors and
yeah this is the other so not only VS code is up but also other is like 5% which probably also means uh cursor and others. Now programming languages this
is interesting Typescript I want to stop on Typescript specifically. So what is the reason about TypeScript or actually let's let's stay on the editors. I will let's let's stay on the editors. I will read the chat. Do you agree with do you
read the chat. Do you agree with do you agree with me? Hello Dennis. Uh companies huge companies confidently using Laravel. Yeah, that's the branding
thing. There's no like quick answer to that. Uh, I love PHP Storm, but it's paid. Yes, insane. Well, yeah, it's a constant debate that VS Code is free and PHP Storm is paid and not that cheap. I'm
still using PHP Storm on very old pricing, which is cheaper for me. I don't remember. I'm paying something like $70 per year or something. And now Laravel idea became free as part of PHP storm but at the same time they're
raising their prices from October from what I remember. So yeah uh people who are on budget uh PHP storm may be too expensive. Uh so yeah that may be one of
them of the reasons. Uh Pika is liking cursor more than Juny. Yep. Same here with cursor. Actually it's another question with pricing. Uh video about that on AI coding daily about cursor pricing became much much
about cursor pricing became much much worse. Uh and uh yeah so Typescript I use VS code J is saying okay uh Ali is saying that
TypeScript is a huge improve and I agree. Uh it's basically it's a personal preference whether to use TypeScript on top of JavaScript but the trend came top of JavaScript but the trend came from first uh Laravel starter kits uh
react and view they both use TypeScript from what I remember and also TypeScript became kind of more popular in Laravel ecosystem among developers but also with AI like generating code with AI. TypeScript. It's one of the ways to make
code more stable with types and AI editors and generators try to use TypeScript. And this was another reason why TypeScript became much more popular. Some people, some developers kind of hate it because it's extra work for what
it seems like not too much benefit necessarily. But also in Laravel now they have wayfinder and there's also spotty package. I don't remember which spotty package. I don't remember which one uh to generate TypeScript for you.
I don't remember from from uh from top of my head. But anyway, a lot of tools come together to generate TypeScript, promote TypeScript and then for it to be easier to introduce and then the code the front- end code with
React specifically and with Vue as well, but React maybe is more more popular. uh that all is the reason for Typescript is basically skyrocketing in popularity. I have a few videos about Typescript on my YouTube channel. Actually, if you
haven't tried TypeScript, let me find it and I will put it in the let me find it and I will put it in the chat as well. Uh Typescript, give me a minute here. Or was it or was it a tutorial on
Or was it or was it a tutorial on Laravel Daily? No, it was a video quick Laravel Daily? No, it was a video quick demo based on starter kit and I will put demo based on starter kit and I will put that in the chat.
yeah, this one. So this is Typescript in Laravel starter for those of you who haven't tried TypeScript like basic demo for for understanding. Uh okay. Uh yeah, no more questions in the chat
so I can continue. So, TypeScript is a huge trend and if you haven't started with that, I would advise at least to try and understand why people are using it more and more. Python is a bit growing but not that significant again
growing but not that significant again with AI. Uh go the same thing is a bit more popular. But this is another thing. So, this is survey by Laravel developers are saying that they're using other languages more Python and Go. This
is probably another trend. So, uh in the chat someone was saying that it's hard to find a job but it's uh easier to find job with Java. Uh same probably is with
Python and Go maybe. So maybe the job market is uh is showing the trends and then developers of course follow what is popular. Uh right let's see what what else.
like dozens of languages. So, I don't want to stop on on all of them, but basically I want to emphasize TypeScript, the trend, uh, Python and Go
TypeScript, the trend, uh, Python and Go slowly growing. And I guess that's it. Next, application context. So some things in some questions I do think that they are a little bit pointless maybe or don't really contribute that much like
don't really contribute that much like laral framework is both business and hobby could be used. So I don't see many conclusions from that team size. Uh this is interesting or that's another thing. I don't think this distribution is only
for laravel projects. I think it's in general. So people are creating web projects with smaller teams and smaller teams are the most uh the biggest number of of teams on the market and then bigger teams like enterprise and
bigger teams like enterprise and corporate are like uh 1 to 3% and I think we shouldn't misinterpret that as just Laravel survey. think it's u in the market uh probably it kind of proves that enterprises don't use Laravel as
much but I don't think that should be the conclusion from the from these the conclusion from the from these numbers uh text PHP 8.4 and 8.3 this is interesting this year 8.4 4 is used the same roughly the same percentage as last
same roughly the same percentage as last year was uh new new at the time 8.3 but again should we make some conclusions from that uh I don't think so there's a PHP versions what was the website PHP version trends
website PHP version trends uh stitcher PHP supported there was u PHP version stats every every June every month or something. Give me a minute. It was on stitcher.io by brand, but I don't remember what is
the actual source of that. Uh was it packages? But yeah, basically in June 2025, this is the link. I will put it in the chat. These are the latest numbers that I found just by quickly googling. Maybe
found just by quickly googling. Maybe something is uh fresher but something is uh fresher but uh 34% of projects by packaged I think uh 34% of projects by packaged I think uh packages is the source. So 34% are on
8.3 then 8.2 is in second place and only then 8.4 for the record. For the record we're using 8.3 for most of our projects. I don't see much benefit to upgrade to 84
uh at the moment. Right. Next, Laravel versions. Also pretty pointless in a way question. So yeah, people are trying to use Laravel 12, but if you are on legacy probably the bigger the better question would be
how many projects or uh what are you doing with upgrades? Have you upgraded older versions to Laravel 12 or not? So this would be more interesting to discuss but for now uh we can see how many people are still on
can see how many people are still on Laravel 5. So 5% of of uh the audience Laravel 5. So 5% of of uh the audience uh and yeah of course 84% on Laravel 12. If you start a new project of course you will start with Laravel 12 probably if
will start with Laravel 12 probably if all the packages are uh supported but all the packages are uh supported but older legacy projects often stay legacy. anything anything new? Uh discussion about server
side up with docker. This is a separate side up with docker. This is a separate very very big topic with docker. Docker uh learning develop go uh learning and develop go beside PH PHP is a good
combination Ali is saying probably I haven't tried go haven't tried go in my career
10. Yeah, cool. That's already a big improvement. Legacy to Laravel 10 is is a good way to go. Hello from Greece, George. Uh yeah, I I like Greece as
well. I mentioned Japan and Italy in the beginning of this video, but Greece uh just yesterday we were looking at old photos from family from Corfu uh in 2022. So we visited Corfu a few times, then CIT once and I don't remember what
else. So yeah, Greece for kids really awesome place to stay. Right, we're 30 minutes in. So I want to just run through other topics and maybe ask answer a few more questions. Database posgrsql. This is interesting. A huge
posgrsql. This is interesting. A huge jump in posgrql and honestly I don't see jump in posgrql and honestly I don't see a very big something splash in Laravel ecosystem or Laravel community with posgra. I'm not sure. I cannot explain
that number. I don't have explanation with SQLite last year it was a jump with SQLite last year it was a jump because it was the default database for uh for SQLite so it replaced my SQL in default from what I remember but posgrql
maybe you can comment in the chat what happened in 2025 with posgrsql I see it's it's kind of bigger in popularity with AI of course but is it like that
much more popular so do you use posgrql and I had a few videos about actually and I had a few videos about actually also I will show in the chat probably for those of you again who haven't tried posgrql
I had a video comparison yeah six months ago maybe I should refresh that but I don't think something much have changed over last six months or so I will put it over last six months or so I will put it in the chat my SQL versus posgrsql
uh and then at the time I didn't find many like overwhelmingly better things in posgrql unless you you use specifically posgrql functionality for something but I'm I'm not sure this is like weird jump 10% up to me in this
like weird jump 10% up to me in this survey do you have any any suggestions about posgrassql in the chat hello from Indonesia Morocco here hello from Philippines great to see posgrql AI you're saying
balora is saying it's about AI Okay, vector databases and rag systems. Yeah, probably. But do many people in Laravel ecosystem work with those directly?
Uh Kevin is saying posgress has ton of extensions. But yeah, extensions is not really for like starting new projects. It's mostly about advanced things I think. Uh right.
And you can put your comments uh in the chat. I can come back to it later. Let's just run through this survey. What is left? Front end UI library. Uh this question is good but the options are not granular enough like yes or no like only
10% of people don't use any library. So this doesn't say much to us. In this uh this uh question I would like to stop and discuss. So server side rendering
with livewire and then client side with Laravel API and then inertia. Obviously inertia is growing in Laravel ecosystem. All the starter kits are using inertia. A lot of new projects are much faster to start with inertia instead of separate
API and then like Vue.js and React on the front end unless you have like I have two cases for that. Unless you have or planning mobile uh client for the same API reusing that API that's one use case or planning public API that's
another use case for API and also the third if you have uh separate teams for third if you have uh separate teams for frontenders and API developers then yeah then it makes sense otherwise if you are one person or a few people team working
on the same web project inertia is kind of no-brainer and this this jump at 7% of no-brainer and this this jump at 7% is like makes total sense especially also politically like inertia became like first party package officially in
like first party package officially in Laravel ecosystem uh that's also an answer to to companies so inertia is not by Jonathan anymore so I think they sure what is what is the deal but basically now inertia is part of laravel
core firstparty packages but I want to stop on livewire is livewire mentioned stop on livewire is livewire mentioned oh yeah here so even granular more uh here. So, LiveWire, we'll get to that in a minute, but Vue.js, as you can see,
it's dropping percent by percent slowly. Well, last year the the decline was Well, last year the the decline was steeper, but even now like 2% even lower steeper, but even now like 2% even lower and React is growing. So, globally,
React is by far the number one like popular framework and everything. But in Laravel ecosystem, React became much more popular because of well two things being mentioned. If you go to laravel.com and go to starter kits,
React is the first option. It's not like the best option, but it's just first in in the list. So maybe it tells something to new developers that they should start to new developers that they should start with React. And also AI again uh if you
ask AI to generate something if you don't specify any text tag uh it's likely going to choose react just by default because it will have a lot of u a lot of examples trained on and also for their uh for their uh commercial
products Laravel cloud and nightw watch are built with react with inertia but react not view uh because partially Taylor said it on a few podcasts partially because of SHAT CN library and like bigger choice of components for
react versus view but also when they uh chose Vue.js for forge they are now rebuilding Laravel Forge so that was on Vue and stayed with Vue.js so nothing
really bad with Vue.js JS if you have expertise there there's no point in switching from Vue to React but globally the trend is happening and it's growing so I'm not expecting React to be as popular as Vue.js in in Laravel
ecosystem and also for Vue.js GS Evan Evan U was at Laracon US on stage so he's still kind of closely watching Laravel ecosystem. Uh so Vue is still
it's it's not going anywhere but React maybe it makes sense for you to learn React just globally to have bigger opportunities. But I want to also discuss LiveWire. LiveWire stopped
growing. This is interesting. I'm a big fan of LiveWire as well as Filament and tall stack in general. But I was expecting I was kind of betting on Live expecting I was kind of betting on Live Wire to to grow more popular, to grow
bigger, to grow more adapted in companies, but it didn't happen that much. Livewire has a lot of fans. Like if you see Caleb on stage, he's a performer and always something controversial with with changes to
LiveWire 4, for example. It's fascinating to watch and fascinating to watch his work on AlpineJS and and everything. But globally the the shift everything. But globally the the shift to tall stack from from React or Vue.js,
it didn't happen as as strongly as I thought. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's limitations of live being server side. So it's a lot of So it's a lot of harder to debug in a way. uh doing may
do performance stuff if you do a lot of if you perform too many server requests. So there are like I don't know small details which may be a deal breakers to adopt Livewire in companies. But again in the chat what do you think should
live wire be more popular? I think it should but for some reason it doesn't should but for some reason it doesn't grow like for last a few years I guess. Uh right now let's read the chat. Uh JC filament
user filament filament I see filament everywhere. Tom is also mentioning that filament++. Uh yeah. Uh yeah. Uh what else
instead of react hurt the user base. That is an interesting angle. So if Laravel had promoted React from the beginning, maybe the ecosystem of React developers would join Laravel more because Vue at the time was like more
niche. It grew more popular. But yeah, that could be an angle actually and they are actually coming back now with starter kits and react. So Laravel and React are now like more friends so to speak, but that could be a reason. Uh
Snanchi, I'm not sure if I pronounced the name. Shaw country sorry I pronounced the name correctly personally use livewire but I feel to optimize depth knowledge of server and client side knowledge well yeah but optimize I
think uh I'm still struggling to come up with some kind of video where I would uh with some kind of video where I would uh I would show live wire as a slow I would show live wire as a slow uh well slow just in general uh it's not
slow in my projects and whenever people ask me why is it slow is usually when ask me why is it slow is usually when they're using like wire model live on on components and stuff like that. So it's pretty easy to to fix in most cases.
Uh right Kevin is saying generally not worth learning LiveWire for complex UIs live wire falls apart slow and clunky. Kevin, do you have any
example of that? So I could I don't know reproduce or maybe describe the uh complex UI or maybe I could try to I don't know recreate some kind of form in
LiveWire for demo project. I would be very interested in that. So probably email me pilas laravel.com or info@larald.com and maybe come up with ideas or just comment uh after this video.
comment uh after this video. Uh right. Narius is saying that it doesn't grow much because people say it's slow. Um how to say that? Uh people also say that filament is slow. But when you debug the
situations slowness are sometimes about eloquent queries, sometimes about uh things that are unrelated to filament. So I'm not sure if live wire it can be
slow. Yes. But uh it's same like self-fulfilling prophecy. Same with Laravel. People say PHP is bad and new people don't use PHP. So same
may be happening here. So some people say that liveware is slow without any proof or or benchmarks and then other people's other people's beliefs change because of that. Um Ruse saying went from live wire to
filament. Well, yeah, LiveWire is filament under the hood, so it's not that big of a jump. Uh, hyping over LiveWire 4. Yeah, I'm a big fan of optimizations with LiveWire 4. I'm not a big fan of structure
changes. We'll see. And LiveWire 4 is coming out in October, end of October. coming out in October, end of October. There's event official for beta version. Uh, compliance stuff. Dave is saying uh LiveWire compliance. That may be an
angle because it sends a lot of data to the server which maybe it shouldn't. Uh the server which maybe it shouldn't. Uh yeah. Um liveware is awesome for rad. yeah. Um liveware is awesome for rad. Yep. Uh I agree with that.
performance. Yep. Uh right. Let's read some more.
So it depends on the team and the project. So for some uh if you have a project to for quick delivery, LiveWire is great. But if you have uh I don't know the luxury to have React developer on your team and you have more time
probably bigger budget, then React may be more I don't know stable so to speak. Um yeah and and Jessica is saying uh filament can be slow on local environment. Yeah with debug bar and a
environment. Yeah with debug bar and a few more uh tools I I encounter that as well and I have a video about that uh that that filament may be slow locally. Okay. What else in the uh in the trends of state of Laravel uh
CSS styling? Nothing much to discuss. Tailwind is taking the world by storm and it's not going anywhere. Administration panel. Yeah, we're talking about filament guys in the chat. So, filament is growing. I expect that
So, filament is growing. I expect that to grow even more. Nova is not dying, but it still exists and they have new versions, but they don't even advertise it on stage anymore. So, it's kind of like going away, so to speak. So,
like going away, so to speak. So, Filament is the new thing. Backpack is still a thing. And we also have our own quickadmin panel.com, which isn't here. and it's in sunset mode. But kind of a teaser, we will probably make it come
back with filament. We are playing around with that for now like proof of concept and I will have some information on that hopefully in a few weeks. Uh but maybe quick admin panel will get back with filament as I'm a big fan of
filament as well. We'll see if there is a demand and if u our vision for quick admin panel with filament will resonate with the audience in a few weeks or with the audience in a few weeks or roughly in a month max right development
environment nothing more to say here not much change there are no trends debugging approach a lot of people still use DD 88% of course who doesn't uh but
where I want to stop here is uh quality assurance uh Yeah. What was the trend? Where do I see nightw watch here? I want to stop on the night watch. Is it here somewhere? I think it was
mentioned in the in the survey code hosting production deployment. Um anyway somewhere here in one of the trends there was nightw watch which
increased uh the basically observability. So nightw watch I think is a great success in terms of product uh to watch for bugs and logs. For example, we switched from bug snack to nightw watch for
laravelaily.com. Of course, you need to calculate the amount of those events and whether the pricing plan makes sense for you. But for us, it made much more sense than jumping to Laravel cloud. So Laravel cloud I think is more B2B. But
Nightwatch is a great for basically any project with Laravel. growing. GitLab is dying. Bit bucket is dying even like faster. Yep, it's not
dying. Maybe it's the wrong word, but like not growing anymore. Uh, this is irrelevant. PHP runtime shared hosting. I'm pretty still surprised how many people use shared hosting, but I guess for some projects and for some shared
hosting which are maybe advanced, uh, it makes more sense. Yeah, monitoring. That's the thing that Laravel nightw watch air monitor uh this one application performance monitor nightw watch increased this line by like almost
10% because it's not only for error monitor you can use it as that so we use it instead of bug snack for that but nightw watch is for application nightw watch is for application performance this was a new thing in 2025
performance this was a new thing in 2025 and that actually that lowered some uh some numbers for other tools tools uh which were replaced by Nightw Watch. And finally, what I want to end with is and Tobias on Twitter, the author of the
survey asked, "Oh, it's 10:46 already. Uh 46 minutes in for this uh live stream. I hope it's not too long for you guys. I hope I don't interrupt uh your guys. I hope I don't interrupt uh your workday. So, this is the drop. Agree
strongly with direction of Laravel 7% drop." and neutral is like more people are neutral and a few more percent disagree with direction of Laravel. Uh
so yeah, let's stop on that. And also there's there's uh I will look it up on Laravel. Uh, one of the top uh top threads of all time was 7 months
uh top threads of all time was 7 months ago with I don't know uh one and one and fourk up votes on Reddit. uh topic Laravel is going the wrong direction and I have also a video about that commenting that
at the time so seven months ago probably it was at the time of starter kits were released and Laravel 12 and everything. Uh so I interpret that Uh so I interpret that I interpret that drop in percentage uh
by two things. uh first thing uh Laravel as a team became became enterprise became uh company became a business with like 70 people now on the team or even
80 I don't remember like at Laron US it was so funny like you're talking to someone and you don't know whether they work on Laravel at Laravel or not or not yet so yeah like a lot a lot of new hires
from the community like Pascal like Mattosh like uh I don't know a lot of people from from the community like uh Ashley on Laravel boost. So many people work at Laravel now doing almost the same things like working on community
projects or like inertia in case of Pascal but at Laravel. So this is interesting. Uh and they became much more focused on Laravel cloud on nightw watch on on branding on design. So they're trying
to play enterprise. I'm not sure about the numbers because they don't really release the numbers of like revenue and profits behind the scenes but uh I have a feeling uh while talking to Tom the president COO uh of Laravel and to
Taylor himself I feel there's a lot of B2B uh things happening like sales uh partnerships B2B deals uh which are like for Laravel
they chase a lot uh things which are towards enterprise at Laravel cloud for example uh and yeah a lot of people like regular simple Laravel developers uh with smaller teams who don't need that B2B
stuff they don't agree with that direction of Laravel maybe and that's direction of Laravel maybe and that's that's okay I mean uh Taylor he he answered on multiple podcasts that he it was a challenged for a challenge for him
so either he should coast for the rest of his career with Laravel as it is or he took on the challenge to grow it bigger to uh to to make out of his dreams the new projects that he was dreaming of like Laravel cloud uh and
we'll see what happens. So uh with like millions of dollars investments and stuff like that we'll see what happens in a few years but uh like Laravel became a business and I'm pretty sure a lot of developers don't like that. So
they would maybe like to uh for for Taylor and the team to work more on open source improving Laravel framework as well improving Laravel ecosystem. But to be honest and I tweeted about it recently I see Laravel framework as a
framework as almost like a finished complete product almost since like Laravel version 8 or something. They're still playing around with like new starter kits, new syntax for something like they're changing the syntax for
like eloquent attributes like mailables. Uh introducing features like automatic N plus1 query detection. They're all pretty pretty big in a way in their own like bubble but but it's not huge uh thing for the framework. So what I see
for the framework as a vision they need to stay on top of the game in terms of the whole web ecosystem. So they adopted React which is great. So they need to be on par with like symfony changes, front end changes, tool changes like pest and
stuff like that. Uh so it's almost like on autopilot I think uh from Laravel I don't know Laravel some versions and in the future. Uh and I don't see many
demands that Laravel should introduce some new features into the framework. So now they're working on packages like Laravel boost is a new huge thing. uh this year because they are going for the trends of AI which is a great thing. Uh
so I think direction of Laravel is good but more and more especially at conferences you see the balance going towards commercial products like cloud and nightw watch for a reason because Laravel now is a business whether some
people like it or not. So agree strongly I kind of expected that drop but can we do something about it? I'm not sure what would be like direction of Laravel which would be like direction of Laravel which would be good for everyone. Uh not sure
probably uh actually getting back to older topic we discussed probably Laravel should uh put more effort into marketing of Laravel and PHP the same boot camp learn Laravel com should be released much faster I guess uh to to
advertise Laravel outside of Laravel ecosystem because it starts to feel like a bubble of the same same old Laravel developers. So hope that will change and developers. So hope that will change and I have like I made a note to to help
with that. Uh so yeah direction with Lar Flarl I think that is the end pretty much the end. All the other questions are not that uh not that relevant. So
okay do you agree with my uh with my philosophy about about the change in philosophy about about the change in direction of Laravel?
many changes that make upgrading a pain. I would personally disagree. It depends on what features you used, but uh apart from skeleton Laravel 10 to 11, which from skeleton Laravel 10 to 11, which was a huge thing. Uh
I remember the changes are pretty minor. I'm not sure maybe some features or for some projects it was uh it was painful. But I remember the upgrade of Laravel from like 5 to 6 was huge. 5 point something to 5 point something like
there were breaking changes like changing the models structure changing like a lot of breaking things like compared to that recent three to four compared to that recent three to four versions are much easier to me.
Uh J is asking which front-end framework is good for user experience. Well frontend framework I would guess more about developer experience uh than user. So what what do you choose as a developer experience because user
experience it wouldn't change much probably actually uh chat library is react is native for react first so maybe because of that the amount of components and libraries for UI is bigger than uh is bigger in react than view then
because of that maybe user experience would be better but uh not I'm not sure so Yeah, Pantelis is asking is saying that I don't think Laravel is going
wrong direction. Uh yeah, people are afraid that Laravel can be enterprise. Well, yeah, they are going enterprise. So, some people do disagree with that. Uh right,
Shaki explained, "Oh, confusing part, the referencing the dogs." Yeah. Well, yeah, that's a good angle and for me it's a personal pain. So for which project do I uh put out the course? So I need to reshoot the course sometimes.
That's why that's part of the reason why a lot of courses became textbased course and I'm shooting videos as as much as I have time in video format. So to reshoot the course because of some syntax changes. Yeah, I hate that part as well.
changes. Yeah, I hate that part as well. Um, Laravel is shifting from open source to making money and no one likes it." Um,
yeah, I guess that's the overall sentiment. Uh, I would probably phrase it in other way. It's not shifting from open source to making money. It's adding making money on top of open source. So, Laravel as a
framework, it's still on weekly release. They still are using um the same logic for for open source for packages is still upgraded. They are upgrading starter kits with wavefinder as well. So at Laracon US there were quite a lot of
announcements about open source like Laravel boost is a new thing. So they're not shifting from open source. I think the making money part of the company is growing bigger. That's the that's the reality. But I guess a lot of people
still feel the sentiment that they're shifting from open source. Um, hello from Mosmbique. Maro, hello back. Uh, so yeah, we're almost 1 hour in. I would like to end this live stream for
would like to end this live stream for now. 66 people came. So, thank you for now. 66 people came. So, thank you for that. Uh, um, I'm going to answer more questions next time. I will try to fit the live streams every Friday. Not sure
about the timing. I will experiment and I will announce it like on Twitter uh and on YouTube. And if you have any questions that you want me to comment on or answer on live stream, probably the best way is to email me pavelisarely.com
uh or hit me up on Twitter or raise those questions in any of my regular YouTube videos. So I would just schedule them for live streams. Uh, see Fireball saying goodbye. Uh, I helped so much. I'm glad to help. Uh, so yeah, let's
discuss everything else next time in our live stream. I even feel my voice is getting lower, so I wouldn't be energetic enough to have I'm not Nun Madur. He's like a machine on fire with his live stream and energy. Uh, so yeah,
next time we'll discuss more questions. If you have any suggestions for that, just let me know on any social channels. Uh and yeah, see you guys in other Uh and yeah, see you guys in other videos.