[00:00] Welcome back to Green Crush, I'm Ryan Airy and I have here Marvel's actual master copies of the entire Multiverse Saga library.
[00:13] Don't ask how we got these, I'm not allowed to say. I stole them. Doug stole them. So today we are going to talk about what happens after the Multiverse Saga ends with Avengers Secret Wars. Which projects will Marvel keep and which ones will they throw away?
[00:26] And we're not talking about which ones that we like. We're going to speculate which stories Marvel will never acknowledge again, and then we're going to destroy the Master Tape.
[00:38] Stunned. But why did they throw anything away? Well, Marvel Studios head Kevin Feige already acknowledged as much. He told Variety last year that they were not rebooting the MCU, but instead they were going to reset into a singular timeline.
[00:51] Quote, we're thinking along those lines. And this year at the Shanghai Expo, he said that the MCU post-Secret Wars would, quote, establish a streamlined, simplified, single universe that's easier for audiences to follow.
[01:03] Some aspects will feel familiar, but many things will be entirely new. And this year on the Happy, Sad, Confused podcast, Biden told Jeff Schneider, particularly the Hickman Secret Wars from 10 years ago, there's a nice roadmap where we can go.
[01:16] And guys, this is key. I have to explain the comic history behind this, and what we mean when we say these projects aren't going to make it into the next saga, and then we'll get to the smashing. So, for decades, both Marvel and DC Comics ran a more or less consistent continuity.
[01:29] This was all one big story that began in the 1930s or 40s. But then, in the mid-1980s, DC's overarching story got so convoluted with different realities, Earths and worlds and planets, that they decided to streamline the multiverse
[01:42] in a massive crossover event called Crisis on Infinite Earths, written and penciled by the great George Perez. Then the DC Multiverse was destroyed and replaced with one single Earth. Now, this new Earth combined aspects of other realities.
[01:56] For instance, in the old continuity, the Golden Age heroes of the Justice Society of America live on Earth-2. But in this new reality, they were all from Earth-1. They were just more active decades ago during the war. And not every character remembered the old universe.
[02:09] And some characters, like Earth-2 Superman, simply never existed. But then other Earth 2 heroes, like Power Girl, were brought over to the new universe and just given a different backstory. And now, hell, DC reboots their continuity lights all the time.
[02:23] Superboy punches a wall, creates a few new universes, and then DC editorial will wipe them out. But now, Marvel is going to have a similar goal on the big screen. They want to streamline their cinematic universe, and they are using a 2015 comic as the template.
[02:36] And that template completely smacks the Marvel Cinematic Universe! Too many loud noises. I'm out of here. Doug, wait. I'm going to go get him. Doug.
[02:48] I have no idea where he is, man. I feel really bad. I think I really scared him there. Oh, this is the infinite wilderness that surrounds the store. Sometimes Doug comes out here when he's in a ceiling. So, anyways, like I was saying,
[03:00] the MCU right now is in the middle of adapting Jonathan Hickman's Secret Wars from 2015. And we've talked about this on the channel before. In that story, the multiverse, just like in the MCU, is threatened by incursions. To save what's left of the multiverse, Dr. Doom steals the power of these cosmic beings called the Beyonders,
[03:15] and then coalesces what's left of the multiverse into one world called Battleworld, which he rules as God Emperor Doom. Now, we talk about that story a lot on this channel, but we don't usually talk about how that story ends. After Doom is defeated, Reed Franklin, the Molyneux Man, recreates the universe, but with a few key differences.
[03:31] So, for instance, in this new universe, Miles Morales was just always a character, even though he originally came from the Ultimate Universe. But more importantly, what we're talking about is that after Doom is defeated and the universe is recreated,
[03:43] almost nobody remembers what happened on Battleworld or during Secret Wars. It's literally just like Reed, his family, Doctor Strange, and Doctor Doom, and no one else remembers. Essentially, that entire story was erased from continuity.
[03:55] And that is what we're going to be talking about here today. How Marvel is erasing certain stories from their continuity after Avengers Secret Wars. It's kind of nice just being out here with you guys, like walking through the woods. Doug and I come out here sometimes to talk philosophy or, you know, complain about the
[04:09] book of Boba Fett. In fact, we came out here the other day and it had like poured rain the night before it flooded. And I had to walk through like streams, waterfalls, and the lake. And my feet never got wet. And I wasn't wearing hiking boots or anything. I was wearing the shoes that I'm
[04:22] wearing right now. These are Vessies. And they are my favorite shoe that I have ever owned. And that's why I wanted to partner with them for this video. Vessies are 100% waterproof. Not water resistant, waterproof. Here, I'll show you. Step in the water. All right. Then come over
[04:35] here and look socks are dry as a bone. I especially love the weekend classic besties because when I travel I don't have to take a million shoes with me or overthink packing. For instance they look nice so I can wear them when I go out. They're also waterproof like a hiking boot and most
[04:50] importantly they're so comfortable so when I go on a fall vacation I can walk wherever I want and my feet feel great. They're easy to slip on, wide as a sneaker and their Dynotech wheels make them fully waterproof and yet breathable. These really are my favorite shoes and I think you should get
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[05:19] Bessie Or you can click our link below Like I said give it a shot I think you going to like these shoes where is Doug Hello You back I am Alright then let do this So in the MCU I think we gonna see something
[05:31] similar. The multiverse saga has gotten really complicated. I still don't understand the difference between a timeline and a universe. Infinite realities also means that no one ever really dies, and character deaths have become meaningless. There's also been about 140 hours of
[05:44] programming in this saga. I mean, there's more hours in phase four than in phases one through three combined. It's just too many characters for most people to keep track of, and Marvel TV has already started to scale back their shows. So today, we will determine which of these stories Marvel will
[05:58] keep around, and which ones we are going to f***ing smash to bits. Now, I guess I should explain the parameters of this erasure before we get into this. First, there is the all-out, none of this ever happened, who are you, what are you doing in my house? For example, James Gunn's DCU will likely
[06:13] never include stories that feature Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman, because Wonder Woman is being recast. We just don't know who's playing her yet. But Gunn also made some events of the old DC extended universe canon. For instance, the events of the Suicide Squad still happen. They're even
[06:28] referenced here. And most of Peacemaker season one is still canon, just with the difference in the Justice League at the end. This is called the canon if we mention its style of continuity. And
[06:44] And then there's the events that are like hardcore canon. These are the things that the MCU will not alter and will stay a part of people's memory. So, for instance, Avengers Doomsday, mostly safe, it's going to be erased. Black Widow and the Infinity Saga, you guys are absolutely safe.
[06:58] So, we can assume that only a few people will remember the Multiverse Saga, which brings us to our first take, Spider-Man No Way Home. It's gone. Let me explain. My problem with No Way Home isn't that it's a bad movie,
[07:11] is that they squandered the future in the name of nostalgia. Like, instead of getting a cool new version of Doctor Octopus, with its origin in the MCU, we got the Tobey version instead, which means that they can't now introduce the Norman Osborn or Doc Ock of this universe
[07:25] without Peter going, Oh, I already knew a Doctor Octopus. So I think that that aspect of No Way Home will be gone. There is already a Doctor Octopus and a Green Goblin in this universe, but they've just always been there. Now, they're probably still going to keep the whole thing with MJ not remembering Peter,
[07:40] because that's like an ongoing story in the Spider-Man movies. So I think that, for the most part, Spider-Man Brand New Day, it stays. As for the Infinity Saga and Black Widow, of course they stay. I don't think they're going to recon anything that happened from Iron Man through Endgame
[07:53] except maybe Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. will be relegated to the multiversal scrapheap. There's your mom. And then the Fox X-Men movies, the venerated saga that kicked off the modern Marvel Age of Movies.
[08:10] done. They might bring back Hugh Jackman's Wolverine. They're going to make him do this until he's 90. But I doubt it. Just like they've already recast the X-Men, I think Logan is going to be new blood too. But Deadpool
[08:22] is the only character who's going to stick around. I mean, Deadpool and Wolverine have already been made by Marvel Studios and Deadpool can always like make a comment about how the old universe was better. Wink, wink. You know, we get the idea. And that brings us to
[08:35] Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Captain America Brave New World. So I guess in this universe, the question is, did Steve Rogers give up the shield for Sam? I think so. I think we even get something really cool where, like, the old Steve at the end of Endgame
[08:49] is actually the Steve Rogers who lived through the events of Doomsday and Secret Wars. And that's why when Sam asks, You want to tell me about Earth? Steve says, No, I don't think I will. You know, because he can't tell Sam his future. So these guys are going to be safe.
[09:01] And that brings us to The Eternals. Now, I really like this movie. It's not perfect, but I was really looking forward to Eternals 2. But then, Bob Iger the Tiger reportedly canceled plans for a sequel because it would be too expensive.
[09:15] So, I don't think they ever mentioned the Eternals, the Black Knight, or any of this stuff ever again. Actually, you know what? We're scraping the world. That whole subplot with Tiamat, I'll go done.
[09:30] No giant gods sticking out of the ocean. And then we have the WandaVision trilogy, which of course includes Agatha All Along and Vision Quest. Guys, this tape is wholly canon and shall not be tampered with.
[09:44] It gets to go in one of the cool white Disney cases. Next, Thor Love and Thunder. It breaks my heart that this one's safe. This might be the most disappointing movie of the Marvel Cinematic Universe for me because it squandered its source material.
[09:59] I do think that Jane Foster as Thor is going to be a member of the Thor Corps. Those are the cops that are under Dune's command on Battleworld and Secret Wars. Afterwards, she may be resurrected in the new universe. I mean, after all, Dune creates Battleworld from other realities,
[10:12] and we saw that Valhalla is another reality in the post-credits scene. The movie also teed up the appearance of Hercules. So, we might get a more serious Thor 5 to cap off this franchise, something like War of the Gods. However, this one might surprise you.
[10:26] Loki. But Loki is so good. Oh, it's great. Arguably the best series they've ever done, but it's also all about setting up the multiverse saga. The first season set up the big bad of Kang, and then they
[10:40] pivot away from him which reminds me The second season was about walking back Kang as the big threat while also teeing up a new status quo for Doomsday So I do think that if they make Thor 5 Loki might be in it but then they just don mention that he was at one point the center of reality for a while
[10:59] Or, maybe Loki will mention it, but nobody remembers or cares. So, Loki lives on in our hearts, but unfortunately, not on our shelves. Hey, does that place just move? You know, I think so, but I'm sure it's fine. I hope it's not mad about you pooping on it.
[11:12] And then, there's Multiverse of Madness. Now, after Secret Wars in the comics, Doctor Strange is one of the few characters who remembers the events of Battleworld. And I think that's going to be true here, and those experiences get him upgraded to Sorcerer Supreme.
[11:25] But what about America Chavez? Her whole power is to travel the multiverse, and we're about to lose the multiverse. My guess is, her power becomes more about hopping to the other dimensions that we saw in Doctor Strange 1.
[11:37] So, Multiverse of Madness, oddly enough, is going to be safe. Now, as for What If, this is a show that could have run for decades with like a different fun scenario each week. However, then it fell victim to the streaming plague that is serialization.
[11:50] And frankly, I don't think Disney wants this thing to hang around after the multiverse saga. Who do you love? You love a car! Now, I do think Uatu will come back, but probably just as a guy who lives on the moon and keeps his eye on Earth.
[12:05] Next up, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, which technically has a connection to the multiverse saga, as the people of Palo do come from another reality, but I think this one's safe. The sequel, if we ever get one, will focus on Shang-Chi against his sister as she now runs the Ten Rings.
[12:20] Personally, this is neat. I hope Shang-Chi loses the magic rings in just a straight-up kung fu movie. Which reminds me, Doomsday should also reveal, like, what the beacon was at the end of that movie and the connection between the rings and his Marvel's bangle.
[12:33] Remember, that bangle was found in a Ten Rings temple. Now, the bangle is an important family heirloom for Kamala that was also used to open a multiversal rift. I personally think she wears it the next time we see her because it's important to her family,
[12:47] and that's what her entire show is about, but we don't see any more portals to the light dimension or anything like that. Kamala and the Young Avengers might also be some of the few people who remember the old universe. So, I'm going to say that Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye are both safe.
[13:01] You didn't see that coming? All right, moving right along, I think that all of the Black Panther movies are safe, and of course, so is The Eyes of Wakanda. However, I don't think anyone ever calls David Johnson T'Challa Jr. He's just known as T'Challa going forward, and he is the new Black Panther.
[13:16] It's not exactly like they recast T'Challa, but it's like the next best thing. Next up, we got Moon Knight. I think Moon Knight's safe. I think Disney wants to bring Oscar Isaac back for a Moon Knight movie, or make him headline the Midnight Suns film.
[13:30] She-Hulk, however. Look, Tatiana Mizvani made a big stink about not wanting to work for Disney after they suspended Jimmy Kimmel. Marvel exec Brad Winterbaum, though, did say that She-Hulk was one of the best performing shows they have on Disney+,
[13:43] but, as Kevin said, You are very expensive. My guess is we never hear from She-Hulk or Scar ever again. Wait a minute, Bob. I kind of like this one.
[13:55] You're right. She-Hulk stays. Quantumania, however, Look, I actually like this movie. You sure about that? I just think that post-Secret Wars,
[14:08] Cassie Lang is a member of the Young Avengers, of the Champions, and they just won't make another Ant-Man movie. I also think that all of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies and, of course, the holiday specials are completely safe. I bet we were fun.
[14:21] You wouldn't believe it. This also goes for other specials, like Werewolf by Night, which, again, could be seen as the Midnight Sun, and I think Punisher One Last Kill was basically a stealth pilot for a Punisher TV show. In fact, I think we'll see this special presentation
[14:34] as back to a pilot format throughout phases 7 through 9 and the Mutants audio. Uh, let's see. Daredevil Born Again, seasons 1 and 2. This show barely connected to DNCU anyways. There's no multiversal ties. They're already doing season 3. This show is completely safe.
[14:50] And Marvel tried to bury the show Echo by cutting it to ribbons from five episodes to six and then dropping it in a single day. And it's a shame because the fight scenes in this show were stellar. It also gave us great performances from Vincent D'Onofrio and Alok Wakak.
[15:03] And in the comics, Maya Lopez is a great character and vital to Daredevil's life. So, I think this show stays canon and Maya might appear in Daredevil Born Again Season 3. Then again, they may never mention it again, but either way, it can stick around.
[15:16] Now, this one is interesting. Fantastic Four First Step. Kevin Feige already confirmed that the X-Men and the Fantastic Four will be in the same universe as the rest of the MCU. So does this mean that the Fantastic Four will be like refugees?
[15:29] Like is everyone they ever knew dead and now they have to cope with all that grief and trauma in this new universe? That really sounds a little too dark for this particular sunny optimistic version of the Fantastic Four. Now another option is that maybe the FF just don't remember the old universe, but that's kind of tragic, isn't it?
[15:46] So I think they're going to pull a trick here. I think the FF will have always been part of this universe and they will probably have memories from this universe. And maybe Reed would remember like both universes and that would set him apart from the team. But personally, I think that like if he ends up Secret Wars in the new universe, we'll see Natasha Leone, she'll still be Ben's love interest, and everything will be fine.
[16:05] In fact the FF will probably spin the second movie off anyways doing some good old first family exploring For this movie I think it safe The Marvels however yeah I don know about this one So the second movie did really bad at the box office and a lot of sexist backlash actually made Brie Larson tell Variety
[16:22] does anybody even want me to play Captain Marvel again? I personally hope that they keep making these movies. Carol Danvers is a great character in the comics, and I think we've yet to see a great Captain Marvel movie. She may stick around, but I'm not sure about the franchise,
[16:35] but it's still going to be canon to the MCU. Now, the Thunderbolts, obviously, it still stays canon, but I think the next new Avengers are going to be high-tier box office draws. One of the reasons this movie underperformed is that not enough of these characters were in big box office movies.
[16:51] They were side characters in other films or shows. And, if you didn't see the movie Black Widow, you basically didn't know half the team. So, Florence Pugh stays, maybe Bucky, and I don't know about anyone else.
[17:03] And then we have the animated multiverse shows, like X-Men 97 and Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man. I think they will all continue. We'll just have to assume that all of their events took place when the multiverse still existed during the multiverse saga.
[17:15] And this also goes for the kick-ass show Marvel Zombies. And that brings us to Ironheart, which is one of my personal favorite MCU shows, and not just because my name is listed in episode 2. They actually did a great job using Clash Division to show what drives people to crime,
[17:28] and it ended on one hell of a cliffhanger. Sacha Baron Cohen was a perfect Mephisto, and maybe he'll appear again in The Midnight Sun. But I'm not sure when they're going to address this Ironheart cliffhanger. If Riri Williams joins the champions alongside Kate Bishop and the Maximoff twins,
[17:42] then maybe they pick up the cliffhanger in an episode. But I definitely don't think we're going to get season two. I mean, there are rumors that Marvel is developing a Strange Academy show, which they set up in Ironheart, and that's basically a school for sorcerers,
[17:54] and maybe her cliffhanger gets picked up there. And, speaking of shows that Marvel buried, let's talk about Wonder Man. This really hurts. Don't do it, person. I want to, Doug, but I have to. Marvel canceled the show.
[18:07] Andrew Guest said that they already had the scripts written. They were ready to film, but Marvel canceled the show. It's the best Marvel show. You can't destroy it. I don't want to do it, but I didn't destroy this show, Doug.
[18:20] Marvel did. Okay, what else?
[18:41] I think Tony Stark comes back in Secret Wars, and then Marvel makes Iron Man 4. Steve Rogers will probably stick around as Nomad and be in Captain America 6. Maybe he and Sam will fight Nazis again. Basically, I think Marvel is going to play the hit
[18:54] to rejuvenate their brand, because after shows like this one, Secret Invasion, that brand needs to be rejuvenated. Truly, this is one of the only Marvel projects I actively dislike from beginning to end.
[19:06] I don't think Marvel will ever acknowledge this show again. Not Fury's marriage, not Gaia having everybody's powers, and even not the bright spot of the series, which is Olivia Colman's kick-ass character running MI13.
[19:18] Well, look, she might be back. But as for the rest of it, I got something special planned for you. Thank you.
[19:55] I think something real bad is about to happen.
[20:14] Destroy. Destroy. Hurt them. There's an evil robot in here. Help! No more destruction. Robots hate hammers.
[20:26] It's getting closer. Multiverse saga will go on.
[20:39] No! No! Oh, no! A modern-day Prometheus! My own creation turned against me! The hubris of mankind! Colton, if you're in there, I need a little help, buddy.
[20:53] Hey, wait a minute. Hold on, Ryan. Destroy. Destroy. Colton, whatever you're going to do, do it now. This morning's program being overwritten.
[21:05] Daisy. Daisy. Colton, are you in there? So let us know what movies and TV shows you think should survive Secret Wars down in the comments below.
[21:17] And if it's your first time here, please subscribe, smash that bell for alerts. For Screen Crush, I'm Ryan Airy.