[00:02] your host, Paul, joined by our editor, researcher, writer, all round great guy, Matt. We have literally just finished the breakdown for House of the Dragon season 3, episode 8. We're recording this on a Friday, so we're not sure what
[00:15] like, but I thought me and Matt would just get together, talk about things, and kind of go over our thoughts on the season before there's any outside influence to tell us what we think. So, though this video is releasing on
[00:27] Tuesday, probably we're recording this on a Friday. Now, before we get into it, marathon for the Newcastle Cats and Dog Shelter. I did try and do it last year. really bad about it. So, instead of just doing straightforward donations this
[00:42] the money collected through memberships and just donate that to the charity. And basically, it's a way that you can support the charity and get early videos cents a month. H. H. So, if you want to click the join button, donate to that.
[00:56] breakdowns early and also give to the new Castle Cats and Dog Shelter, which is such a good cause, but less of the nice things. Matt, what did you think of season 3? I was not a fan. I found the
[01:10] pacing to be just glacial at times. I feel like they learned their lesson a bit from season two where they had no final battle and then they've been teasing this the whole time and then we
[01:23] teasing this the whole time and then we finally get Tumbleton which admittedly the battle was great absolutely great but the glacial pace of it what was a 2.0 Oh, I've said that to you before right after I watched the episode. And
[01:38] it's funny that you had a glacial pace of a show that also rushed things. It's >> I've never heard the term glacial pace before, you know. >> I do like it, but I disagree as well. I
[01:52] do kind of disagree. I did actually like the way they I thought the first two episodes were very much dealing with the hangovers of season 2. Yeah. And if we'd the taking of King's Landing as the ending to season 2, I think that season
[02:06] would have been a lot stronger. We didn't. And even just like the character stuff, what they were doing kind of some of the lines and dialogue didn't really hit for me. Even like this is such a nitpick, but like Rene knocking the door
[02:18] they do a lot of swearing in this and I know they've got swearing in the other seasons, but for some reason when she's like Viseris, it didn't it did of dialogue throughout that I didn't necessarily gel with, but
[02:32] >> overall, I really actually I did enjoy this season quite a lot. And, you know, these seasons can be a slog to cover. We're doing like 50inute videos at least every single week. It's a lot of work alongside doing the stuff with the
[02:44] get into a show where you're not enjoying it and it becomes I mean, it's we we still have good jobs. I don't want to downplay that, but it you really didn't have that with this. And I thought there was great stuff with Egon
[02:58] that was all new. They really changed a lot of the book, but I think they did it in a way where it improved on things and even keep the stuff with Rook's rest I thought was really good. Stuff with Moro not being born. When George R. Martin
[03:11] that would be a problem, but I think it worked better in the way that it's kind of this baby could be born and if they are, here's what's going to happen. And that that I thought worked really well. the dragon seed stuff as well. Hughes
[03:26] book. They're more kind of minor stuff worked well and felt more sympathetic like Ulf as well. Ul, he's a guy should seeing him get kicked around all the time."
[03:39] >> Yeah, I think it's Tom Bennett. I think that's the name of the actor. I loved him in Phone Shop. >> He was He's been like him and Matt Smith are like my favorite actors in this. I thought they were just They've got the
[03:52] choices lines. They had just great scenes, especially together as well. I have been hot on the show, I think the acting has been just so damn good with >> Yeah, >> Emma Darcy's their their kind of
[04:07] performance in the finale was just unreal. And I just wish we had a bit better writing to build things up, but they're spinning so many plates as well. >> yeah, I really liked Emma Darcy in this. I thought season 2 there were bits where
[04:20] I was like then they're not getting a lot to work with whereas season 3 there was such a range of emotions and I did think the Danny 2.0 arc was handled well There are little bits where obviously she's grieving the death of her son as
[04:35] well and kind of when she's like, "Jace, wake up. Jayce, what are you doing?" Just this moments of madness that are being layered throughout and then when she discovers the lie about Raina. Raina was another change that you know season
[04:47] 2 I was a bit like I kind of want Nettles in this season. >> But I thought that worked well. It all kind of built built towards Damon's arc as well. And I think there was just little things that Yeah. they flesh
[04:59] things out and Ryan Condell, this is very much Ryan Condell show at this point, whereas in the past I felt it was an adaptation of a George RR Martin work whereas now it's it's definitely not that and it's kind of him going off into
[05:11] his own thing for better or for worse. >> But no, I did enjoy it and I thought episode 8 especially, I thought it was really well handled and I think that battle scene is the best battle scene they've ever done. They really just
[05:24] brought out everything they needed to. I thought I thought there was so many big varying what was happening in the climbing the wall and then the dragons would come in and then the kids would
[05:36] get killed and then you'd have fighting in the streets and it just worked really well and I love how there was kind of that scramble with Orand as well asking where Ulf is and then Ulf turning on his own forces and then killing him as well.
[05:49] that I thought were layered throughout this episode that worked really well. And I think in terms of finales, this is the best finale they've done, I would not been hot on the season, this this episode, the fighting, um the payoff,
[06:04] like I said, it's been slow and that kind of it feels like we're getting the same plot beats every week. Will she will Rainer go evil? Will Orand his plan work? What was his minations? His secret plan. But it all did come to a head and
[06:19] really really satisfying and I think that this was the bloodiness was what I hear it's like one of the bloodiest battles of the dance and I can see why they limited they didn't have fish feed like the battle by the lake shore they
[06:35] didn't have those they didn't have the battle of honey wine they've saved all their budget pretty much for this scene which watching it I was like you know what fair play fair play this is sword fighting action. Tommy Flanagan just
[06:49] superb as Rody. Absolutely brilliant. >> But problem is we didn't get to see enough of these newly introduced characters. We didn't get to see him as characters. We didn't get to see him as much with Oscar. We didn't have Benji
[07:02] Blackwood or anything like that. We had Allison Blackwood who has not had it. I don't think she's had her name said. So yeah, while there is some the battle was great, we didn't get to know these new characters and I feel like I wonder if
[07:15] be like, who is this girl from Vikings? Like what's going on? Who is she? But yeah, no, it's a solid >> phenomenal. I do agree with that. Yeah, I do agree though. I think it's kind of the Boba Fett effect where, you know,
[07:29] Boba Fett's in like the the original Star Wars trilogy and doesn't really do much and is just kind of a cool looking character. And I see that with Allison as well where she's just cool looking character doing some cool Kills
[07:41] Kristen Cole. It It's fine. I do think this is a very clear indicator though this season that they listened to pretty much all the feedback from season 1. Like even Aean being at Harrenhal when he went there and crashed out and woke
[07:53] up on the bed. There were parts of me that was like, "Well, we're back doing this thing again, but now it's Aean instead of Damon." And though they did do bits of that, it wasn't the same thing. you know, it didn't feel as
[08:06] >> Yeah. No, I agree. I did think that no way are they doing this again. I mean, parts of it, if it was like one episode like a like we had in this I think it was episode three or four, we had like the only at King's Land. If we had one
[08:19] episode of Damon in season 2 going through all the weirdness, >> that would be okay. But I think they did it a really did a real good job here. And so much law implications. I mean, there's going to be I can't wait to like
[08:32] the the the big fan channels who only come with Game of Thrones or Song of Ice and Fire. I'm excited to see what their theories are on this and basically the general feedback to some of the huge law dumps in this in this finale.
[08:45] >> But yeah, I think they they have listened it but still the the crux of character and kind of bringing these people in. >> What do you think? Oh, quite I I think Ren's character was like one of the
[08:59] anyway. >> Yeah, she thought she spun her wheels like >> Yeah, I suppose >> go on, I'll I'll be a bit a bit a bit bit evil. I'll be mayor with tequ
[09:11] >> Yeah, that I I suppose for me it's always kind of how you end things and [clears throat] two, I thought the first four episodes of season 2 were excellent. like the battle of Rook's rest was brilliant, blood and cheese,
[09:25] the twins stuff in episode two, and then can't quite remember episode three off the top of my head, but I remember those four episodes of season 2 being really latter part of season 2 that things started to go bad. Whereas here, it's
[09:40] more for me, it's like a flip of that where although I enjoyed the first four episodes of this season, I think these last four have really ramped up and it's just gotten better every week. Even stuff like the dragon fight last week
[09:52] that just came out of nowhere. I thought that worked really well. And it's nice because obviously we we are like our job is to study the book pretty much and then write about it. And it's nice to every week get a surprise in a big way
[10:05] that you just don't see coming. And it does feel like they've kind of taken the text and really developed it. Like even the stuff with Alice Rivers this episode, it's just a theory that we've had for ages. And it I'm sure people are
[10:18] arguing that it's kind of fanfictiony, but they've just taken little tiny bits from the text and really fleshed them out, which I really appreciate. >> And the stuff with Egon, I just found that that kind of rise to from basically
[10:31] being someone who was like running off with Laris at the start of the season to now now where he is. It's it's a great character development, I find. I found written themselves into corner with Hugh being a nice guy. Well, in this one in
[10:46] the in the show >> um like you said with with Agon, but I found they they they kind of wrote while I prefer the book, what they did I themselves out of trouble cuz you just think like how are they going to write
[11:00] Hugh as like this brute and I thought that that story line was was pretty good over on the season a bit now but I've still got my problems with >> No, and I think there are there are definitely points. I mean, episode four,
[11:15] so the way we got these episodes, we got the first four in advance and then what we'll do is we cuz you always forget stuff down the line. So, we always do a just working, we don't watch ahead, but this week we're working on this episode.
[11:28] Week two we're working on this episode. So, we I remember being like, oh, that we're getting early. And eventually they did start saying them every Tuesday I think or something. But I remember Orman saying let's begin or something at
[11:43] the end of episode 4. And I was like oh so next week stuff's really going to >> Yeah. >> And then they did like four more episodes of being like let's I'm playing Reneer. I'm getting spies to write
[11:57] graffiti on the walls of King's Landing. It's like is this the big plan? >> Yeah. It's like I've made a coin of Darren. It's like, "All right, okay. Is this the plan? Just graffiti and a coin." And where? So, see, like season
[12:12] 2, we had blood and cheese. I Steven all the time, he just kicks me off at how much I mention blood and cheese all the time. But blood and cheese, Damon was sending in assassins to kill kids and stuff and or doing graffiti on walls and
[12:26] and that stuff. I suppose they did kill the gold cloaks, which was a big thing >> my memory is so aligned to what happens in the book. Yeah, I really have to >> H, but yeah, the gold cloaks bit was good. But yeah, there's just lots of I
[12:41] thought the escalation was really well handled and I enjoyed this season. I I done in House of the Dragon. >> Yeah, I think the first one I still is my favorite, but this one is much better than
[12:53] >> it's much better than season two, >> but I'd hoped it's with the budget now. don't they? I mean, it's been like was it two years and you can't I would have liked a mid-season battle and then a a final one, but it's just unfortunately
[13:09] days. I should do a rings of power where you make like a show for a billion pounds or something. >> Yeah, I was exactly the same. I was in a a perfect world. I think you'd get a big battle to open up the season, one at the
[13:22] Unfortunately, they don't have the money for that. But they did still do a lot of week. I thought that must have cost a shitload. They had a lot of big locations as well. Tumbleton was a nice location to visit. I like the way that
[13:37] Orman was kind of and Darren as well because I mean before this season we were constantly like well is Darren even going to be in the show? And then when they mentioned him it was like oh right they're going to have to like really hit
[13:49] the ground running in season 3 because he's not being set up at all. And I think season 2, you get like a shot of Tacarian at the end flying overhead and that was pretty much all we had. So I think they achieved their goal and I do
[14:02] character now and he's just kind of came in this season or you know he's he's went out like a chump. John Roxton >> kind of been teased throughout the season. He plays a bigger part in season 4, I'm guessing.
[14:15] for them now to have a really, really strong season 4. >> And I can kind of see what they're emitting from the book at this point. I get the Shepherd. We might still get him, but it'll it'll have to be crammed
[14:30] >> Yeah. >> But I think the dragon the dragon fire pit, what's going to happen with Aegon and Rene and then the the dragon seeds? And I can see there being lots of good things that will happen in season
[14:44] will should be yeah >> should be huge. It's weird that they've got I'm hoping it's a 10 episode season next time to kind of allow things to breathe a bit more and then they can they can build towards things because I
[14:58] Tumbleton that's why I feel like it might have been a bit slow because it's like seven episodes of going well finale of the of the previous season then building up towards that it's kind of okay. But but this one they've got a lot
[15:13] to do and it it's interesting to see where they end it in season 4 because there's there's two or three kind of logical ending points to the to the show. So depends what whose story they're telling. Are they telling Ras or
[15:26] of thing. >> Yeah. I think they probably got the feedback from season two of like this finale is terrible. And I think going into this season, they probably planned straight away like we need to do battle
[15:39] of the gullet right off the bat and then we do a big battle at the end. the storming of the dragon pit or something like that? Probably not. Let's put the battle of Tumbleton at the end. And then they were kind of like, right,
[15:55] well, we need to fill in the space in between that to do interesting things. But for me, it worked. No major issues with it. Like I had I remember even last season we did a we did a video out right after it of like why how it should have
[16:09] like why it sucked or how I would change it or something something clickbay where it's like let me show you I could be a good writer. And I would I wouldn't go out and even want to make one of those videos for this season because it just I
[16:23] right places. >> Yeah, I think they they fixed some of the problems and and the like George R. Martin said the butterflies of not having mailor in in it kind of goes on and they they've done a decent job but
[16:36] yeah I think the the problem takes two years to get the show and whereas Game single year. So that's I think it's a systemic problem with television and systemic problem with television and production and how long things get.
[16:49] >> It's crazy. Yeah, cuz we're doing the X-Files at the moment as well and I'm blown away by the fact they've done I think it's over 100 episodes in 5 years and a film that was shot alongside it and it's just like yeah insane insane.
[17:03] But yeah, for me you know when George R. Martin dropped that vlog I was like this it is stupid that Moro is not going to be in it. what the hell's going on? But watching how they handled it, I like it. And I think we say this in the
[17:17] breakdown, you know, we have to factor in real life things into stuff like >> two-year-olds do are not allowed to work 12 hours a day on a set. And normally they'll have just the kid in a wig. They'll have like five different kids
[17:30] and put a wig on one and just sit them facing against so the camera can't see his face and just be like, "Yeah, that is the kid that has been there the whole time." And you will have se if you go back and watch this like this show that
[17:42] are just playing on the carpet and not doing anything. So they're not really characters. And I do feel like Mor would have just ended up having to be another one of those for legal reasons and logistical reasons. So having the threat
[17:56] could be born and Rene's like, will it freaking out. Is this going to be another boy I'm going to have to contend don't even know if I want to bring a child into this world. It all kind of
[18:10] finale [laughter] that comes with it. >> In the book, like in the book, it's absolutely sad. That was sick reading it. So, you couldn't do that in the show. Not expecting that, but yeah, I do
[18:22] >> Yeah. I mean, they banging on about blood and cheese again, but they neuted that. That was even worse in the book. And I like the way that Allison is going to return probably with a lot of guilt because she left Helena on her own and
[18:36] kind of went off and did did her own thing. But I do also thinking about I do rushed. >> I mean I I think the Mad Queen thing was handled better than it was with Danny. But there was a scene where they fire My
[18:49] Zora and I'm just like have I missed something here? Is it Have I missed a when you're writing the breakdowns, you're kind of writing and watching and and sometimes you will miss things because you just you're trying to get
[19:02] down as much as possible, >> but looking away from the screen and I I was literally like, have I have I missed Have they not sent the right episode out or something? Because Yeah. Just we went from her basically being in Reneer's bed
[19:15] last week and then it's like, "Oh, yeah, you're fired. Sorry, look. Makes no sense." No, no, in between. Yeah. No, in between. So, I did wonder that there They always have this thing as well in shows and this happens all the time
[19:29] where they'll say a character has a plan. It's like I've got I've got a plan and no one's going to find out about it. And us being, you know, theory timers, we'll sit and we'll come up with like really good plans of what it could be.
[19:41] And in the end, like Orman's plan was like just get get and attack the the were thinking like, oh well, he might, you know, he might set up Darren and have Darren die at this battle and then Rene's killed a kid who's a king and
[19:55] there's going to be people who rally up behind that and see him as and none of time where we'll come up with loads of plans. where everyone had their >> conformity gate and idea and then
[20:10] >> it was nothing. Yeah, I remember doing that New Year's Eve. Yeah. This year and because we didn't even know if we would be getting this finale early and it was like, well, can we wake up Monday and
[20:24] you know what? We'll we'll be able to do it cuz I did that terrible Stranger >> still resilience. >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But no, I am quite positive on this season. It's got me excited for season 4 again and I am back
[20:38] on board with the show. Whereas at the end of season 2, I was like, we'll cover going to be going through the motions a bit and just covering it for the sake of cover something you enjoy again. >> I know. It doesn't help as well. We've
[20:52] year and that was just >> they had a really strong Yeah. >> perfection. Just a >> It was one to one to the book and and that. So, maybe this maybe my opinion has been overshadowed a bit by that. And
[21:04] I'm very interested to see what people say. I'm excited to look at Twitter and everyone's opinions and the comment section. they're going to change for season 4 because we do so much reading on this
[21:18] and then we'll get all loads of stuff ready and then you end up just being this because it's not even applicable to it." And I do wonder how people's fates are going to change. Like there's a character who's quite high up now who
[21:31] died at King's Landing when Rene stormed King's Landing and he's still alive and like still going and it's like all right okay so they are changing quite a bit and things like Torren being on the the the ma the master of coin now and little
[21:46] things like that it's kind of >> yeah you're seeing lots of changes to the point that I think season 4 even if we do a predictions video which we will you're not going to be able to you know it's not going to age as well as like
[21:59] going to be Yeah, >> probably quite off a bit, but make sure >> Watch it anyway. >> Yeah, exactly. So, Matt, have you got any final thoughts? >> I'm cautiously optimistic to season 4.
[22:11] might watch a finale. Okay. >> I'll probably rewatch it all in three years when we get the new season anyway. So, maybe my opinion will change. it for review as well, we don't even review stuff. We kind of look for Easter
[22:24] eggs and and book stuff. So, it's kind of it's weird cuz you don't enjoy it in the moment. A lot of the time you're kind of just doing it as like, oh as possible rather than just sitting and and that's why I quite like going to the
[22:38] cinema and just doing the watching the whole thing and then doing the video and watch it and soak it in and and see how you feel. Whereas episodes and stuff can be a bit difficult to take in. It's difficult to explain. If you do this job
[22:53] and you you sit and do it, you'll understand it. But uh yeah, it's it's >> No. >> Yeah. So, that wraps up the review as well. And uh thank you Matt for joining me. It is Friday. I'll let you get away.
[23:06] He's on an early finish tonight. He's the whole team. I really must shout them out because we got this episode so late and for them to do all the work that incredible. And yeah, it's my birthday tomorrow as of recording this. So, I'm I
[23:20] like I'm going to be working my birthday and and Sunday. But yeah, we've got the [music] got it all sorted now. So yeah, enjoy everyone and thanks for checking the membership to support that charity too. So much appreciated. Awesome.