---
title: 'DF Direct Q+A: Xbox Reboot Studio Closure Reports, RTX 50-Series Super Returns? ARM ML Rendering'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=RfpsUXuNTc0'
video_id: 'RfpsUXuNTc0'
date: 2026-06-17
duration_sec: 3308
---

# DF Direct Q+A: Xbox Reboot Studio Closure Reports, RTX 50-Series Super Returns? ARM ML Rendering

> Source: [DF Direct Q+A: Xbox Reboot Studio Closure Reports, RTX 50-Series Super Returns? ARM ML Rendering](https://youtube.com/watch?v=RfpsUXuNTc0)

## Summary

The DF Direct Q&A panel discusses the turbulent state of Xbox, including reports of studio closures at Ninja Theory and Compulsion Games, and the potential for an OEM-driven future like 3DO. They also analyze Nvidia's rumored RTX 50-series Super refresh, ARM's new open-source neural rendering suite for mobile, and a possible Intel-Nvidia collaboration. The conversation highlights frustration with Microsoft's inconsistent strategy and cautious optimism for new hardware and software technologies.

### Key Points

- **Xbox Studio Closure Reports** [02:16] — Reports from Tom Warren indicate Ninja Theory and Compulsion Games are closing, while Double Fine is in negotiations to spin off. Panelists express shock at the speed of changes after a positive showcase.
- **Whiplash from Positive to Negative** [04:17] — John notes the staggering whiplash from the recent showcase feeling good to now hearing about widespread studio closures. The panel sees it as a lack of coherent strategy.
- **No Coherent Strategy** [07:26] — Will argues Xbox has no vision, with decisions made on a whim. He fears the closures repeat the mistakes of the Xbox One era when first-party support was gutted.
- **Harsh Reset for Studios** [10:59] — John predicts a harsh reset with many studios facing layoffs. He worries about talent being removed and the cycle repeating.
- **Conflict Between Xbox and Microsoft Corporate** [14:43] — Rich notes a clear conflict between Xbox leadership and Microsoft corporate, especially Satya Nadella's focus on AI. The panel believes Nadella would not hesitate to cut gaming.
- **Inconsistent Messaging** [18:00] — Rich highlights how executive comments from just months ago are now contradicted. The lack of self-awareness is baffling.
- **Xbox Becoming the Next 3DO?** [22:20] — A question compares Xbox's potential OEM strategy to the failed 3DO model. Will explains 3DO failed because OEMs didn't benefit from software licensing, while Xbox already has a strong software library.
- **ARM's Neural Rendering Suite for Mobile** [30:45] — John describes ARM's new open-source ML upscaling, denoising, and frame generation suite, demonstrated with Unreal Engine 5. It requires future Mali GPUs and could improve mobile graphics quality.
- **Nvidia RTX 50-Series Super Rumors** [37:50] — Rich and Will discuss rumors of a refresh using 3GB memory modules to boost VRAM (e.g., RTX 5070 to 18GB). Will gives pricing predictions ($349-$399 for 5060 Super).
- **Intel-Nvidia Collaboration** [45:00] — Will explains the collaboration involves Intel SOCs with RTX graphics, potentially for laptops/handhelds, giving access to DLSS. The future of Arc remains uncertain.
- **Sega Handheld Rumors** [50:43] — John discusses the possibility of a Sega low-cost handheld similar to Evercade, noting Evercade's successful niche with cartridge-based games. He speculates on screen quality and game library.

### Conclusion

The video ends with the panel hoping the Xbox cuts lead to a stronger focus on remaining studios, while remaining skeptical of Microsoft's corporate direction. They view ARM's open ML suite and potential GPU refreshes as bright spots, but caution that execution and market conditions remain uncertain.

## Transcript

Hello there and welcome to the latest
edition of the DF Direct Q&A show.
You've got questions, we've got answers.
Uh hopefully joining me first of all,
hello Will Jud.
>> Hello. It's good to be here as
infrequently as ever.
>> However, there are questions
specifically aimed at you. So, this is a
good one. Um okay. And uh also joining
us, John Lman. Hello.
>> Hello. Happy to be here on this
judacular Monday. Uh, it's great to be
joined by Will Jud. It's been awesome
having you back, Will. I just want to
say that so the public can hear it.
>> Uh, it's good having the proper support
on the back end, the the website stuff.
So, yeah, good job, man. Welcome back.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, okay. Well,
um, I guess we should just crack on with
the questions, but first, this
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Okay, then. So let's kick off with our
first questions of the week. And uh
we're actually having to refilm this
because the dynamic situation with
Microsoft is so dynamic that it seems to
be changing on a 24-hourly basis. So our
previous responses to these questions
needs to be completely recalibrated. Uh,
let's kick off with this one from Skyrim
26 FPS edition. When I see Satcha
Nadella quoted as saying, "Now we have
to turn Xbox into a sustainable
business. Why do I mentally insert or
else afterwards? Supposed options are
spinning it off presumably to die and
and be reborn as Activision Blizzard 2
private equity edition or turning it
into a JV, i.e. dead but someone maybe
Asus gets the brand. I think that's
probably pushing things a bit. Although
things are pretty dire seemingly, I just
hope for a quick resolution of the Xbox
fiasco as I want this industry to
succeed and maybe taking a player off
the board will help that. Um, Djako in
brackets, Dan, uh, lads exclamation
point, what do you think to the recent
rumblings that Microsoft is even
considering spinning off or selling
Xbox? Who would your preferred buyer be?
Could Elon Musk really do a worse job?
Absolutely yes, without doubt. Um, and
if he bought it under his macro hard
anti-Microsoft uh company name, would we
be living in some kind of mirror
universe? More like a sort of dystopian
reality where everything has kind of
gone horribly wrong. Although some might
say the last 10 years is pretty much
evidence of a Kelvin style divergence in
the timeline. Um John, um yes, we
originally um uh responded to these
questions in the first draft uh of the
first recording session, but um we were
kind of like wanting Microsoft to just
shut up and get on with business
basically. I think that was the uh the
the overriding messages because Satcha
Dadella was basically coming out and
saying, "Hey, you know, um we've been
subsidizing video games for the last 25
years. It's time for them. It's time for
video games to pay us back essentially.
And in the time since we recorded the
first response to this uh to this topic.
Um well, basically
parts of the plan are starting to become
apparent and it's pretty pretty bad
news, right? Uh yes.
I man I was commenting earlier that the
the whiplash from this whole situation
is honestly staggering because I think
we came out of that recent sort of
pseudo E3 presentation feeling pretty
good about things right like it seemed
like they were heading in a good
direction. And it seemed like, you know,
there would be some sacrifices,
unfortunately, but what seems to be sort
of coming out now suggests that it's
actually a lot worse than we're
expecting
with studios either being spun out as
independent in the best cases or simply
being shuttered. Uh, and the names that
are being mentioned is what's so
concerning. Like in the case of
Compulsion Games, for instance, I
actually I I don't like to see that. I
think they made a really cool game.
They've done some good stuff, but you
know, they haven't made enough games,
one could argue, and the sales and
performance of it was really poor. I
mean, I can understand where the
decision would come from, but when
you're hearing, you know, you see Arcane
is mentioned, um, Ninja Theories being
mentioned despite just announcing a
brand new game, sounds like Double
Fine's going to spin out on their own
hopefully. And then even stuff like
machine games and ID software comes up
as potential things that could either
get shut down or hit. We don't yet know
what's going to happen, but like it's
just going too far. It's like they're
saying, "Hey, we're just going to close
all the developers you guys like." Um,
>> right. And that comment about them just
wanting to chase, it sounds like they
just want to chase like the ultra
high-end AAA uh sort of experiences,
whittle down their portfolio to just the
basics that like hit that market and
that's it. And
>> right,
>> I guess basically the the best thing we
can hope for is that these developers
are able to essentially exit from
Microsoft gracefully and somehow
continue, right? If they could continue,
that would be okay.
>> But I don't want to see studios shut
down and mass layoffs occur over this.
And if that's the case, if they're just
essentially removing so much talent and
experience, it just feels like they're c
like they're creating the problem that
got them in this position in the first
place, right? Like if you really go back
historically and look, the Xbox 360 had
a remarkably strong first and third
party lineup. So did the original Xbox
even, but 360 especially. But then there
was a point where, and I think this was
on Don Matrix watch, where they
basically like whittleled down their
first party stuff to almost nothing and
they either focused too much on connect
or they just didn't have much uh because
they were so, you know, convinced that
the third party support was all they
needed. And then they spent years and
years and years building up their first
party portfolio again. And now I would
say over the last five years, Xbox has
had a pretty great stream of games being
released, right? Like their developers
are producing. There's a lot of stuff in
the works. Like it seemed like things on
the software side were going well and
now it sounds like they just want to
close it all down again and they're just
going to wind up in that same stupid
situation.
Um, and it's just it's just emblematic
of this constant feeling that they have
no vision for where to go forward. And
it's just decisions are being made on
the whim. And every year it could be
different. There was that clip from
Psycho Odyssey
>> uh about the making of Psychonauts 2
that always goes around where somebody
was asking about like uh you know when
corporate visits and like oh yeah we
love like Matt Booty and Phil Spencer
and them you know they're they're the
fun guys. It's what happens when Bill
from accounting and so and so from
marketing comes in on Friday. That's the
problem. And it just feels like they put
on a face that's like says one thing and
then you know the penny pinchers come
in. It's almost like they just
>> uh leave them to they they say oh we're
going to be hands off of the studios but
they provide no guidance or support and
then all of a sudden they like look at
the at the you know finances and say oh
we got to do something about this. Sorry
guys. And it just kind of keeps
happening. So
>> right. Yeah. I mean, um, I'm just
looking at reporting from Tom Warren,
who is very well, uh, integrated. Lots
of sources within Microsoft. He's saying
that Xbox is closing down Ninja Theory,
Compulsion Games, and Double Fine are
also in quote unquote active
negotiations about spinning off. I I
wish them well. Um, and um, he also uh
refers to an interview that Asha Sharma
and um, Matt Bouty gave with Windows
Central. And I'm just going to quote
this. Um, the first conversations Asher
and I had when we first met to do all of
this, to her credit, she immediately
emphasized supporting our studios and
our games. Our ecosystem is built to be
a portfolio of everything from small
games to ongoing franchises to the big
blockbusters. We've built at our core uh
to build everything from Kil to Call of
Duty. Everything from um Minecraft to
South of Midnight. That's core to how
we're set up. This is Matt Booty here. I
think we've got one of the best
portfolios out there, even in the
entertainment industry more broadly in
terms of that range. We're dedicated to
it. And here's why. I believe that
almost everything big started out as
something small. We cannot lose the
ability to have those places where
little sparks can grow into something
big. The creative environment that lets
us take bets and creative risks has to
be part of Xbox's culture. We're
committed. Our studio system is built
for that. Well, are they committed based
on the fact that um you know it doesn't
look as though um a lot of these studios
are going to be supported in the way
that was suggested there. Uh it's it's
kind of shocking really the the the you
know there's always a legacy quote that
comes up to bite Microsoft uh in the
behind whenever there's a big move like
this really does suggest that there's
just no sort of coherent strategy. Um,
well, this is I mean I'm I'm staggered.
I shouldn't be based on everything
that's happened, but I am.
>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's
just that whiplash between, you know,
the executive statements, which seem
very reasonable and seem like there's a
clear direction in place, the Xbox
showcase, which was really positive,
really exciting as, you know, an Xbox
fan or somebody who just enjoys the
games on PC. Seems like there's plenty
going on. And you know, as they say,
like a good range from AAA stuff down to
double A stuff and indie games all kind
of included. But you know, and then the
other shoe drops and then this is the
kind of stuff that we have to deal with,
right? And that these developers have to
deal with more importantly
>> is that it seems like, you know, there's
going to be a very harsh reset for a lot
of studios. And I'm sure that beyond the
closures and the studios being spun off,
there's also going to be a lot of them
that are facing layoffs, right? So,
>> it's Yeah, it's just really problematic,
I think, especially, you know, for Ninja
Theory to have had a game announced and
have such a positive reception to it and
then to be in the headlines a few days
later to say, "Oh, yeah, and probably
the studio won't exist after that."
Like, will that game even come out? will
come out and then the studio closes
down. Like neither of those are great
options. And uh yeah, it's it's just a
real shame. Like obviously there's a lot
of pressure from Xbox and certain parts
of it at least to be um always producing
bangers, you know, being uh capable of
producing these kind of evergreen titles
that people will just spend almost
unlimited amounts of money on. But I
think it's really important for
Microsoft and for Xbox to also be
supporting these kind of mid-level um
studios that have more reasonable
budgets that aren't taking huge swings
on everything and are able to come out
with games that are made at a reasonable
price and you know therefore you get a
lot of different bites of the cherry,
right? So
>> yeah, just super disappointing news and
uh yeah, hard to see how this kind of
jes with everything that Microsoft's
executives have said before.
Right. Yeah. I mean, the ecosystem seem
to be designed for Game Pass to create a
range of um games of varying sizes and
varying shapes and different types of
games to support a vibrant
subscriptionbased offering.
>> And I think, you know, it took years to
get there. And I think, you know, part
of the issue that Microsoft had with
Xbox Series in particular is that there
was a failure to deliver games in those
first few years.
um that has kind of like been reversed
at this point. We've had some
sensational games from Microsoft. Um we
had this fantastic showcase just a few
weeks ago. There seems to be I don't
know, John, there seems to be this
incredible sort of lack of
self-awareness about about everything
that they're messaging to the audience
at this point, you know, because
obviously they went into this showcase
and uh we're going to show great things.
there was um a lot of interaction
between um management and um the fan
base and then this happens like weeks
later. I just don't understand the
reasoning or the strategy here. It just
doesn't make sense. And you know, if
there are poor decisions being made just
on the messaging side, then what else is
going on? I mean, man, this is this is
just crazy stuff. From the outside,
there's this sense that there's a huge
conflict that's brewed between, say, the
Xbox group and Microsoft corporate. You
know, people like Satia Nadella at the
top. What they want doesn't really seem
to align well with this. And when you
see them all interviewed separately,
they often make statements that feel
kind of conflicting, which makes it seem
like they all have their own desires for
things and kind of let that slip. And
there's no like real unified message
here, which makes me do it makes me feel
like Xbox if it I don't know how this is
possible, but I would just it would be
interesting to see it spun out as its
own thing somehow, at least somewhat
separate from Microsoft corporate. I
mean, we know that Satia is all in on
co-pilot and AI and all that nonsense.
Like to him like I think he is exactly
the type of person that would feel zero
remorse about laying off the entire
gaming team, every single person, so he
could, you know, invest more in AI. I
genuinely think he would not care. Uh
it's that type of like personality we're
probably dealing with here. And I think
this is not what's interesting to him as
as a business leader. And it doesn't
feel like it suits what Microsoft is
right now. You know what I mean? like
Microsoft of 2026 is not the same
Microsoft that started Xbox. And I think
I would like to see all this Xbox
because we know we know a lot of people
that work at Xbox, right? We have like
friends and contacts within all these
studios and Xbox proper. I do believe
that the people working within that
organization genuinely do actually care
about this stuff and they want to make
great things, but they're limited by
this this management situation and being
part of Microsoft as a company. So, if
they could find a way to split, that
would be wonderful. But how that's
possible, I do not know.
>> Right. I think, you know, fundamentally
the issue with spinning off from um
Microsoft is that they would still be
the the effective owner. They would just
be outside of the corporate structure to
a certain degree.
>> To a certain degree. And maybe that
would be what's necessary to make the
decisions that are actually good for the
gaming business. I I don't know. Like
this is
there's just there's too much going on
here and we don't have enough
information. I think most of most of
what we're saying is just born out of
frustration of seeing a business that we
love and care about essentially being
like ground down into nothing and this
like constant whiplash between like a
positive message and then a negative
message. And unfortunately, I feel like
the Western gaming industry especially
is just in a really bad place right now.
Microsoft's not the only one doing this,
but it's pretty severe from their camp.
And
>> I feel like what we're really seeing is
the effects that we all cautioned about
is like all these acquisitions and like
creating large conglomerates built from
so many different companies. It's not
sustainable and it's going to end badly.
And I think there's definitely cases
where certain acquisitions may have
occurred because the company could no
longer operate independently and they
essentially needed an out and this
essentially just bought them time. But I
don't believe that's the case in every
situation.
So, I don't know.
>> Yeah, there does seem to be like um
inconsistency in messaging because um
and this goes back to um the whole uh
four games situation um the business
update where you know we heard about the
the the beginnings of a multiplatform uh
plan which everybody kind of knew was
already fully formed or very close to
it. And at the same time as that was
happening, you know, there was very sort
of careful messaging from management at
that point, even though it didn't feel
particularly accurate. Um, but at the
same time, you had Sachin Nadella
basically wading in with his size
12elves
saying, uh, yeah, you know, what's the
point of exclusives, that sort of thing,
basically undermining management. So,
you know, there does seem to be a
continuing sort of um friction between
Microsoft and and Xbox leadership and uh
and now it seems to be the same thing
happening again where you know we've
basically got comments that were being
made by new management just a few weeks
or or you know a couple of months ago
basically disappearing and uh complete
about face on strategies just absolutely
baffling. I think there's just got to be
a firm sort of um strategy that they're
going to commit to that is positively
communicated to the community because
what on earth is all of this about and
it is just you this lack of
self-awareness you know Sanchi was
talking about um uh obviously the big
hardware issues that we've got at the
moment and you know complete sort of
lack of self-awareness that Microsoft is
a key player in actually causing all of
that and no sort of evidence that
Microsoft is, you know, going to help
out uh to help out Xbox in navigating
through this when surely they can to a
certain degree. No, it looks as though
that um they've made their investment
over the last 25 years. Uh uh YouTube is
making more money off Xbox than Xbox is,
which is baffling. I don't know where
that comment came from. I just don't
know what to make of all of this at this
point. And it's funny because we did
record an initial response to these
questions yesterday in fact where it was
kind of like okay maybe they just need
to shut up and get on with it and then
you know come up with a strategy and and
execute it and um uh you know it's sort
of we have to redo our own content now
to adjust to Microsoft's changing
messaging over 24 hours. Absolutely
baffling. Absolutely bizarre. But no, uh
I still think that Elon Musk would
probably do a worse job.
>> Oh yeah, undoubtedly.
>> Any final comments, Will?
>> Um I would just say that, you know, if
this is going to come to pass, I really
hope that they say, "Okay, we've had to
close some studios. We had made some
layoffs, but from now on, we're going to
invest in the studios that remain. we're
going to be trying and get ourselves
into a really strong position so that
when Helix comes out it'll be supported
by a really good like you know launch
library right I think that has to be the
goal here and if these cuts are
necessary to make that happen then you
know it still is incredibly painful but
at least it would have been worth it in
some sense right so I just hope that
this is the start of a consistent
strategy that actually sets them up for
some kind of success in the future
>> yeah I think I echo that I think the
bottom line is that um we just need to
know what the plan is and I think more
to the point the staff at Microsoft in
all the development studios and you know
and within Xbox itself kind of need to
know what's going on because I don't
think anybody does at this point it's
just absolutely absolutely baffling. Uh
a final comment from you John.
>> Um what you said will that sounds so
hopeful. That would be nice. Uh, but I'm
sure that's exactly what they thought
when they launched Xbox Series X and S,
right? And it didn't pay out. So,
although they did actually end up
getting the games, but I feel like now
it's just I don't know. All I'll say is
if they if they dare touch a company
like ID Software or something, I will
never forgive them.
I was super angry over the things with
like Bluepoint and all that with Sony,
but if you go after a a studio like ID
that has produced nothing but greatness
and the best technology in the industry
and try to shut them down or bring or
cut them to to pieces, like no, it's not
okay. I'm not I I could never forgive
that.
I think basically, you know, an
explainer to the audience about what has
happened and why rather than just, you
know, we typically what happens is a
memo from the CEO is sent to the staff
and that memo is then shared with the
audience and the memo is basically word
salad. There's no real sort of proper
explanation. It's challenging
conditions, that sort of wordage. Um,
what's going on? you know, you know,
Xbox, you can't reach out to your fan
base, uh, try to reconnect with them,
show them amazing games, and then
basically come back a couple of weeks
later and say, "Well, actually, we've
got some real problems here. Sorry, it's
just absolutely bizarre." Anyway, I
think we can all hopefully move on.
Okay, sort of leading on from that,
interesting question here from Dudley
the Gentleman. Hello, renowned Pixel
Purity Police. Do you see the Xbox brand
becoming the next 3Dio where Microsoft
defines the specifications and OEMs
build the hardware? If so, how can they
be successful where 3Dio and even Valve
with the original Steam machines have
failed? Uh I think that is probably a
key part of the strategy, right, John?
Where they're talking about um
partnerships, hardware partnerships. Um
uh yeah, Will, we had a a discussion the
other day. It's like, well, why are
Microsoft seemingly so badly affected by
these component shortages when
>> Microsoft is buying a lot of the
components elsewhere within the
business? And I'll come to you shortly
on that, John. But 3DIDO, obviously, you
know, there's associations that this
this wasn't really a great thing. It
didn't really um make an impact. It was
an interesting idea.
Is it the new 3Dio? Could Project Helix
be the new 3DO?
>> Is there a positive spin on that?
I mean, maybe, but I I think
conceptually what they did with 3Dio is
interesting, but it's just like the time
and place, the market conditions now are
just so fundamentally different that I
don't really think it's even remotely
comparable. 3DIO ultimately the biggest
issue there was um obviously software
was not as good as it needed to be. uh
though it's not bad but secondly that
model at the time game consoles really
relied on on being subsidized right so
it was the blades and ra blades and
razor model essentially or blade and
razors model where essentially you know
they sell the hardware often at a loss
they make it up with software licensing
but due to the way 3DO worked you know
if you have Panasonic or Goldstar
whoever making a 3DO back then they
didn't get anything from the software
really, right? So, there was no benefit
to them selling units at a loss. So,
they didn't. And that's kind of why the
price had to be as high as it was. And I
think at the time, it was just way too
expensive. Didn't have enough software.
Uh, and it was just a crazy time in the
market in general. Everything was in
flux. And so, you know, a year or some
change later, Sony comes along and does
a similar thing, but way better. Uh,
yeah, there was no chance. Now we're in
the era of I guess I mean hardware in
general is more expensive. Uh
Xbox as a brand is already established,
right? 3Dio had to be uh built up from
nothing and Xbox already has a very
large library of games and publishers
working for it and it owns tons of
development studios. I mean they have
what they need for software support. So,
if they were to take this approach,
conceivably like the software side
wouldn't really be an issue, which is
why it could still find success. Um, but
I don't know what that would mean for
prices. And I mean, if OEMs are building
this hardware,
but I don't think companies today take
as much of a loss on hardware as they
used to, it feels like. Uh, I I I we
need to actually check the numbers on
that, but I don't know. And I still
think that Xbox itself at least I would
imagine that it's still going to
manufacture at least its own firstparty
devices to some degree. Like I don't
think it's all going to become like Asus
ROG boxes and stuff like that. Like I
still have a feeling that Helix or
whatever it is is going to end up having
an actual official Microsoft built
device.
>> Oh, sure. Yeah. They've committed to it.
They're making it the reference device
that's happening.
>> Exactly. So that and that's a different
thing. You know, if they allow others to
make a similar thing, that's that's, you
know, that is more like what the 3Dio
did, but 3Dio never had its own
reference device.
>> Yeah.
>> So,
>> what we need is a uh Project Helix
Wonder Mega.
>> Oh my god. Yeah. That's Sega. Sega
really did used to do that, right? Like
they had their main systems, but then
they let companies like JVC make their
own stuff. And damn, if anybody has a
Wonder Mega, man, that's the one that's
my my white whale for for retro
consoles. The original Wonder Mega. I've
been wanting one of those for so long,
but man, they're tough to get.
Um, well, let's talk about this OEM
strategy. I'm a bit confused by it
because um
it surely it's just adding somebody else
to the supply chain that wants to make
money out of these devices. So, you
know, obviously there's going to be AMD
making all of the um uh all of the
chips, right? Uh TSMC probably making
actually pro actually fabricating the
chips. AMD, I don't know, are they are
they kind of making a license? I guess
it is a license deal with Microsoft. So,
Microsoft would then sell the chips to
Asus, MSI, whoever wants them, Dell. And
you know, surely this is just like
somebody else in the chain who needs to
make money out of this device. And how
how are they going to make money on it?
I'm a bit confused by that.
>> Yeah, it's a bit of a weird situation.
Like with the ROG Ally, it kind of made
sense because ASUS had already produced
this device and Microsoft could make
some small hardware changes, make some
bigger software changes, and then they
had a product that made sense. But for
Helix, I don't know if that's kind of
the same situation. Obviously, Asus and
Dell and whoever isn't going to have,
you know, 90% of a viable project Helix
sitting around. So, I think if they do
go down this route, it might be more
about adapting it to different regions.
Like, um, for example, like Valve, they
kind of let other companies in China
run, you know, the Steam network and and
run, you know, and sell devices and
things like that, right? where they're
kind of handing over some
responsibilities to local experts. So, I
could see a situation like that where
they say, "Okay, well, we're going to
make Project Helix for China and it's
going to be made by a Chinese company
and it's going to have different
software and it's going to have all
these, you know, adaptations that make
it more viable there." And, you know,
you could do the same thing with South
Korea or Japan or another kind of big
but slightly different market. Um, in
terms of just, you know, having it
wholesale, I think, yeah, it does just
kind of complicate things and there
would need to be a good reason to do it.
I guess diversifying, you know, the
investments and things like that would
be good, but yeah, it's hard to say that
there's like a huge need for, you know,
Project Helix to be made for like by 12
different companies unless they're doing
something genuinely interesting with the
hardware or the software or something
like that.
>> Mhm. I mean, the only thing I can think
of is that possibly they would have um
uh superior procurement on stuff like
SSDs and memory modules compared to
Microsoft, but that is kind of
staggering in its own. Yeah, just the
conceit of that is kind of hard to
believe. You know, Microsoft have been
making even without all of the server
stuff, they've been making laptops,
they've been making consoles, they've
had relationships presumably with TSMC
and and the memory manufacturers for
decades. So, I'm I'm still sort of a bit
mystified by all of this. What I can see
is that if Helix is indeed a machine
that is just as much a PC as it is a
console, then there could be uh bespoke
designs designed for specific uh PC use
cases because obviously the um the great
thing about the PC is the diversity of
the components that could go into one or
the use cases, you know. So you could
possibly have a helix machine that has
more memory for example if you wanted to
also use it for production tasks or
something like that. Uh so then you sort
of build up an ecosystem of Xbox
adjacent or or even Xbox branded devices
but they are made by like MSI Dell or
whatever. And I do think, you know, from
a value perspective, compared to some of
the pre-builts, there is probably going
to be a good value argument there. But,
you know, a mainstream device, um, I I I
find it really hard to imagine um those
guys coming up with that, um, particular
device for that particular audience
because there's not really any money in
it. Um, okay, let's move on. Okay. So, a
question here from Marcus. Hi,
Foundryman. exclamation point. What your
thoughts on ARM's new quote unquote
neural technology stack for mobile
graphics with new super sampling, new
frame rate upscaling, and neural super
sampling and denoising? Seems like an
unusually open attempt at an ML
rendering suite for mobile covering
upscaling, frame interpolation, and
combined upscaling and denoising. Could
this be important for vendors that do
not have something like DLSS, Metal
Effects, FSR, or a mature in-house
solution? More broadly, could open
developerfacing tools like this help
raise image quality across Android
phones, handheld class devices, and
perhaps eventually Windows on ARM
systems? I hope you have a great week.
Explanation point. Uh, thanks for that,
Marcus. Um, well, we were going to talk
about this in the direct last week, but
um, we didn't because well, you actually
did the article on digitalfoundry.net.
You spoke to the people involved,
>> and I thought we'd save it up
>> uh, for you to talk about.
Yeah. So, it's a pretty cool uh
announcement really. So, it's
essentially a whole uh version of the
kind of DLSS suite of technologies. So,
there's uh upsampling, there's
upsampling with dnoising, there's frame
generation under a different name. And
yeah, it's very very cool. It's got um
you know some limitations but they've
already demonstrated it by building an
entire game with Sumo Digital which is
about 2 hours which feels like a full
length game for for a mobile uh mobile
system and it seems to allow you know
enough uh extra performance headroom
that you can do some really cool uh more
advanced graphical techniques on what is
fundamentally a very low power device.
So, they've demonstrated it with uh
Unreal Engine 5 megal lights and they've
got kind of an interesting cave system
that has all these bioluminescent things
in the background all drawing, you know,
doing their own lighting and yeah, it's
it's an interesting idea. I think the
key limitation at the moment is that
this is going to require future ARM
hardware like I guess their next
generation Mali GPU to work. So that
means that until that hardware is
actually in the hands of a significant
number of people, you can't fully rely
on it to produce a game, right? But what
it does do is it makes the development
process a lot quicker and easier as well
because you don't have to bake out
lighting and then see how it looks and
then adjust things. You can, you know,
have artists working and seeing their uh
changes in real time. And then after you
get to the end of that process,
presumably you can then say, "Okay, and
now we convert this to a baked
alternative." So, it's still
interesting. And the fact that they're
releasing a toolkit and they're
releasing all the assets from the game
is a really cool move. And it seems
like, you know, they just want to make
sure that this level of technology is
available to a whole new um, you know,
platform, a whole new audience. And
yeah, it's it's uh, fascinating. I think
we'll probably have to wait until we see
the game running, you know, on real
hardware to get a better sense of how it
does in terms of image quality. Uh
certainly what they've released looks
like the image quality isn't, you know,
certainly the highest end that you would
expect from a PC or a console. And there
are some question marks over um
performance as well, especially in terms
of touch latency and how that interacts
with uh 30 fps to a 60 fps uh frame rate
upscale aka frame gen. So very very
interesting so far. I think you know as
an open source open kind of project it's
it's really worth um you know mentioning
and and highlighting and and gives a lot
uh of interesting ideas for mobile
developers no doubt but yeah really
cool. Yeah, they put out a video asset
and um
sort of a bit sort of uh curious about
why they did that because they're
talking about, you know, upscaling frame
generation, frame generation, and then
they put out a 30 fps video.
>> So, you know, show us the frame
generation, please, because we're not
seeing it in a 30 fps video. It's just
kind of bizarre. But yeah, it's an
interesting step forward. But, you know,
I'm there've been kind of lots of um
technology demos we've seen in the past
for mobile that, you know, never really
translate into final products and there
isn't really any kind of need for them
because, you know, cutting edge
rendering on a mobile phone isn't really
done anymore. So, I'm very curious as to
why they did this. But, you know, the
the sentiment behind it that, you know,
to to actually go open with all of these
technologies, I think is uh is to be
commended. Um, do you have any thoughts
there John?
>> Sure. Yeah, I mean I think the open
nature of this uh is actually
potentially important if it can take
off. I mean just being open doesn't
necessarily mean success, but I mean
they're targeting mid to lower-end
devices and mobile in general where
there's more sensitivity towards battery
life. And Android traditionally, they
haven't really had a solution for this.
Uh other solutions like on Apple for
instance, the metal effect stuff that's
all closed proprietary, right?
>> DLSS itself proprietary.
uh FSR is and XESS are kind of open, but
there's still more fixed functiony and
there's still limitations there. So,
this is kind of like, you know, this
feels like a pretty awesome solution,
especially when targeting those mobile
devices. Uh, it could be good for
basically allowing lower res rendering
on mobile where battery is so important,
but a lot of the other stuff, I'm not
sure how important that'll actually wind
up being in practice. talking to people
that are into like big mobile games for
instance, uh the high-end Unreal stuff
for typically isn't very popular or
there's issues with it because it is
notorious for just being heavier on the
phone, draining the battery faster,
taking longer to load up. Uh one of the
things that helped make like Mihoyo
stuff so popular like Genchin is that it
looks beautiful. Uh, but it's actually
like pretty lightweight, right? It's a
Unity based game, but it's it's fairly
lightweight. It's quick to load. It
actually runs quite well. Um, but maybe
this could help make some of the more
advanced stuff a little bit more
reasonable. We'll see. I don't know.
It's It's good though. It's always good
to see additional open standards uh
dropped into the market. It just reminds
me of um what what was the uh the
standard prior to Vulcan? Uh
>> no, no, no. There was that one that I'm
forgetting the name that was developed
before Vulcan.
>> Mantle.
>> Mantle. Yes. Remember Mantle?
>> I do.
>> I don't know. That just sprung to mind.
>> Okay. Yeah. Mantle. What a what a time.
That was awesome.
>> Yes.
>> Uh okay. Uh, let's move on. Um, I got a
question here from Andreas Wright. Hey,
DFO over Overlords. I'm not sure who
we're overlording over, but whatever.
Uh, hey DF overlords. Due to leaks on
Nvidia reportedly releasing 50 series
super cards, do you think these are
necessary? And what specs prices should
we be expecting? So, yeah, I mean, we
were kind of expecting this this year,
but owing to the memory crisis, it never
happened. But um the 50 series line was
to receive a refresh which would have
seen um essentially uh cards that have
got 2 GB memory modules replaced with 3
GB memory modules. So um an RTX 5070
would go up from 12 GB to 18 GB which
sounds pretty awesome, right? And 16 to
24 for like the 5070 Ti and 5080 and you
know not too bad. potentially the idea
of a 12 GB RTX 5060. I would be super on
board with that. Um Will,
what do you think?
>> Yeah, I mean I think in a normal year
this definitely would have happened and
it would have made sense. And I mean I
think one of the major criticisms of
Nvidia graphics cards over you know the
past 5 years has been that they haven't
really kept pace in terms of VRAM
allocations certainly compared to AMD
which seems to see 16 GB as more of a
standard for a mid-range and above card.
So you know using more advanced memory
uh chips that have 3 GB instead of two
that makes total sense. It allows them
to not have to change much else in terms
of the design and still bump up the VRAM
to levels which you know I feel 12 GB is
is extremely reasonable for a 60 series
uh class product. So
>> absolutely
>> I think it makes a ton of sense in terms
of pricing. It's hard to say. Normally
the super uh lineup kind of replaces the
original cards at the same price because
those original cards will have you know
gone down in price in the intervening
you know months or years but given the
current memory crisis and how much
everything costs that extends to VRAM so
it's hard to see if that is necessarily
what we should expect. Um, I ran some
numbers and I'm kind of thinking 5060
super would be 349 to 399 possibly. 5070
super 559 5070 Ti super 749 and 5080
super 9999 again if they're kind of
replacing those original cards at a
similar price. So I think you know
competitively these look really good but
again we're in such an unprecedented
time at the moment that it's really hard
to predict with any level of certainty
what these things are going to cost but
you know the the core concept is at
least solid and I would welcome this.
Yeah, I think um Nvidia in a hard place,
right? Because if the um next generation
GPUs have also been delayed, which seems
likely, right? It's not beyond the
realms of possibility, then you can you
go 2 years without a new GeForce product
launch.
>> Uh that would be asking quite a lot,
right? Um the question is availability
of these um higher density memory
modules and how much it costs them to
buy, which we just don't know. So
pricing could be anything really. We
just have no idea whatsoever.
>> The weird thing is from from my
perspective is that we are in the middle
of a memory crisis. We have seen um
comments from Asher Sharma from Xbox
about you know ballooning prices and and
yet you can still buy um an RX970 XT and
a 9070 for reasonable prices. Uh the
other week you could buy an RTX 5070 in
the UK for less than its original launch
price. I'm wondering what's going on
there. Is there is there something in in
terms of the sort of supply chain that
we're missing here? Um because those
prices, you know, they're not bad.
Certainly nowhere near as bad as what's
been happening on the SSD front and um
on the DDR5 side of things. So, I'm I'm
kind of curious as to how that's all
sort of panning out.
>> Uh but John, new graphics cards, even if
they are essentially the same generation
with more memory, that would be pretty
good, right? I mean, sure, but we
already have a product coming out again.
It's called the uh RTX 3060.
>> Yes, somehow it has returned.
>> Uh I mean, sure. Yeah.
>> Style.
>> It's more cards would be nice. I guess
it's just we're we're still in this
weird spot with pricing and
availability, so it's really hard to
say. And launching anything new is just
going to sell out quickly. They probably
won't make that many. I don't know is
we're we're still in a weird I said the
other day like it feels like they they
made it to the 5090 and then they like
put the you know they they marked their
spot on the rock and they're like all
right we've we've gone far enough let's
go back down the mountain and like it's
like we're are we going to see anything
beyond that level anytime soon any
>> soon? No the 6090 I guess possibly yes
but that's going to be some time away.
Yeah someday.
>> I don't know. It's just the it feels
like the whole GPU situation is really
strange right now and there isn't that
much demand I think for new faster cards
at the moment. Like they're they're
already very fast for all software
available. Um the prices are really
really high. I I think at this point
most gamers would be like well if I have
cash for a better graphics card that
probably already exists and I'll just
put my money on that. You know what I
mean?
>> Yeah, I do think that the sentiment
might be changing, John, because uh it's
interesting you make that point that
when the 5070 came out, you know, it was
basically um it was it was badly
reviewed because it wasn't that much
better than a 4070 Super. Um and um
obviously Nvidia made these crazy
comparisons with the 4090 and uh that
didn't work particularly well. However,
the 5070, you know, it's it's a good
card. I think you could do path tracing
on it. You could do multi-frame
generation. I could play Pragmata with
path tracing at 1440p
um you know, at like 160 frames pers.
It's it's all right, you know. And I
guess the fact is that when the 5070
came out, you couldn't buy a 4070 Super
anymore. So, the comparison there was
kind of a bit strange. I think there's
obviously a um push back against the
fact that um raw performance hadn't
improved. I think that's a valid point,
right? But ultimately, if the scope of
the requirements of games isn't actually
changing either, then effectively it's a
replacement product that's got some nice
extra features, which you know is it's
okay. I think if I was unable to play
like uh great games on the 5070 or or,
you know, I wasn't able to do path
tracing on it, that'd be a different
thing. But it's it's kind of been okay.
Um let's move on to another question
here. And um yeah, what can we say about
this one? Spot asks um please can you
summarize Intel and and Nvidia
suspected collaboration
and what this means for the future of
Arc? Uh we're going back a while here,
aren't we, Will? But um there is it's
not a suspected collaboration. There is
a collaboration between Nvidia and Intel
and I believe Nvidia owns good chunk of
Intel stock as a result of that
collaboration. But it is potentially
quite exciting what they're doing there,
right?
>> Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think the
the core idea is that there will be an
Intel SOC for like a laptop or a gaming
handheld or whatever. And instead of an
ARC graphics portion, it'll have an RTX
graphics portion, which could be, you
know, potentially uh more powerful,
could have a higher top end. And
probably the most important thing is it
gets access to DLSS then, which is from
what we've seen on the Switch 2 and from
obviously just general PC gaming is the
best uh upscaler package generally. So
yeah, it's it's pretty exciting. It's
interesting to think about potential
products that could use this. Certainly,
you know, Intel just launched their own
gaming handhelds powered by ARC
graphics, and we'll have to see how they
do in terms of power and performance and
everything else, but this kind of gives
them another option for a co-branded
device that is able to potentially hit
higher performance levels and do so with
better upscaling.
>> Mhm. Yeah. What do you think about the
future of Arc? Because um there have
been lots of rumors as usual. I mean,
seems to be like pretty much every few
months there's a new rumor that Arc is
in terms of its discrete graphics cards
is a thing of the past, but then you see
Panther Lake where you see a very very
good integrated solution. What do you
think is the future of Arc?
>> Oh gosh, it's hard to say, right? I
mean, I I get the idea that maybe Intel
is a bit like Microsoft and there might
be different factions within the company
that see different paths for it.
Um because you know certainly we have a
lot of people that are genuinely seem to
be really big fans of ARC internally and
want it to do well and you know have
plans for all these you know discrete
graphics cards and mobile chips and
everything else and the work that Intel
engineers have done to you know make it
a viable solution both discrete and in
terms of uh you know laptop integrated
has been you know really promising. So
from that point of view, you would say
that the Nvidia stuff is maybe, you
know, just a contractual obligation or
it's something that, you know, is not
going to be the main thing going
forwards. But I think it does give
perhaps other factions within Intel that
don't think that ARC is worth the
investment a good kind of get out clause
to say, "Ah, but we don't need to do our
own things. We can just ask Nvidia, who
are already really good at this, to just
handle these things going forward." So
yeah, it's obviously all kind of based
on rumors. We don't really know what
these first products that are um you
know, combining these two uh Intel and
Nvidia uh SOC's to you know, we don't
know what they'll what they're going to
look like and we'll have to wait until
they're actually out and we can test
them in terms of performance and
features and everything else.
>> But yeah, it's it's a complicated
situation for sure. Yeah, I think you
know ultimately it is just going to be
um integrated processors with a Intel
CPU and Nvidia GPU which sounds like you
know um the scale of it could be
relatively limited. It could be
something bigger. I mean in the past
Intel actually did a similar
collaboration with AMD uh which was um
very very very shortlived. you had like
an Intel uh CPU and like a Vega GPU, not
the Radeon 7, I'm afraid there, John
Fury X,
>> my favorite,
>> but you know, potentially this could be
really, really cool. um you know
bringing those technologies together. I
think it could be quite compelling from
a gaming perspective maybe more
compelling than the Windows on ARM stuff
that Nvidia is pursuing at the moment
because it bypasses the whole ARM
situation and um Intel CPU cores are
actually pretty good. Right.
>> So, you know, potentially good stuff
there. what it means for the future of
ARC. I honestly think that's a separate
discussion because you know um releasing
a product with an Nvidia GPU doesn't
mean that you know you you suddenly have
access to Nvidia IP and um if Intel want
to be competitive on the graphics front
on the AI front they need good GPUs I
don't think ARC is going away the
consumerf facing side of it from gaming
might change not really sure at the
moment um what do you what do you make
of this suspected collaboration, John.
>> I mean, it seems not that different from
uh what we've seen already with like,
you know, laptops with Intel CPUs and
Nvidia GPUs. I guess it's just would be
an integration.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh this just feels like an a way to
offer a high-end option while still
leveraging Intel CPU cores because as we
know, ARC doesn't really play in the
high-end GPU market at all. So I think
ARC would remain for now as a part of
their mid to lower-end stack and you
they could deploy Nvidia technology
working together with them and higherend
systems basically right. Um so that's
basically the idea I guess and that
sounds good to me.
>> Um going to round off with a final quick
question. Uh this one comes from KBAC.
Uh, what do you think of the rumors of
Sega supposedly working on a lowowered
handheld akin to the Everade handhelds?
Uh, have you heard any rumblings on the
digital web or is this pure hogwash,
John? Is it pure hogwash? Is there
something of it, do you think?
>> I don't know. I haven't heard anything
about this rumor. Uh, that's interesting
though because it may it's Evercade has
quietly Blaze Entertainment. They have
quietly carved themselves a weirdly
successful little niche. Evercade
devices are really cool. Like they're
lowcost handheld units that play
cartridge-based games. And they've now
got like hundreds of games on that
thing, including games that otherwise
don't really have easily accessible
physical versions at all. And just due
to that low cost, it's just like a fun
little system to collect for. And um it
plays well. And some of the units have
TV out. there's a console as well. Like
it's just it's a it's a fun device and
the price is low enough that it's
managed to find that audience. So maybe
something somebody like Sega sees that
and says, "Hey, we could do that."
Because unlike the mini consoles which
are like locked down devices, this could
be a way to sort of more easily bring
their classic catalog back again
somehow. But they've done that enough
where I feel like they'd have to find
some kind of spin to make this more
interesting. I I don't know. And also
like doing a handheld
well to make it actually compelling is
tricky in terms of screen quality,
screen selection. Like if they just
slapped like a 16x9 LCD of some sort
like in there, that would be pretty
crappy for for that, I have to say. Uh,
but if they actually properly source
like a good 4x3 panel, you know, they
take care of the treatment correctly,
something like what was in the Ambernick
RG477M,
a panel like that maybe too expensive
for what they want to do would be pretty
nuts. Uh, in a little dedicated handheld
unit. So, I don't know if they're going
to do it. I'd like to see them try
something. I still have my Game Gear
Mini, though, which or no, it's the Game
Gear Micro. I don't know if you ever use
one, Rich, but the screen it's like the
size of a thumbnail. Like literally,
it's very very small.
>> Yeah. To which my question is why? I
mean,
>> it was just it was a fun it was a fun
little toy in that case.
>> Um I guess from my perspective, the
question is like what kind of games do
they want to run on it? Cuz I know the
games that I really want to play and it
would be like, you know, the Dreamcast
and the Saturns, that sort of
>> arcade games is what I would want.
>> The arcade games. Yeah. You know, the
model one, two, and three games. I mean,
that would be awesome. a handheld with,
you know, model one, two, and three
titles on it would just be incredible.
Um, it would,
>> but, you know, all of that sort of
custom hardware,
how's the emulation on that could be a
bit tricky. Uh, I don't know. Um, well,
do you have any thoughts on this?
>> Um, I don't have any thoughts on this
particularly, but I just wanted to say
that I already have the uh Sonic the
Hedgehog mechanical keyboard.
That
>> our audio listeners can't see it, but he
held that up and it is indeed very Sonic
the Hedgehogy.
>> Hold it up again. I want to see it. Just
>> This is the show and tell portion of the
show.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Mhm.
>> Wow. Okay. That's That's quite nice.
>> This is made by High Ground. They also
do a different design in black for uh
you know, shadow obviously
>> and they do various mouse pads and this
is currently what is on my uh PC for
testing purposes.
>> Huh. I like it. Looks cool.
>> Okay, good stuff.
>> So, you know, if if they want to take
any design notes from that, then, you
know, get in touch.
>> Fair enough. Okay, what a great way to
end the show because that was indeed the
last question. So, if you enjoyed it,
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