[0:00] we're going to be breaking down how
[0:01] small creators can land Big Brand deals
[0:04] and creators of any size it's so so
[0:07] important when you are first engaging
[0:09] with the brand to ask them this question
[0:11] and I'm curious you've generated over $5
[0:13] million in brand Partnerships what's the
[0:16] number one misconception costing
[0:18] creators money right
[0:21] now your pitch has to be relevant to a
[0:24] campaign that the brand is either
[0:25] currently running or has run in the past
[0:27] you can tie your pitch back to organic
[0:30] content that you've already posted that
[0:32] illustrates that your audience has an
[0:34] affinity for their brand or their
[0:35] product in my experience actually the
[0:37] more Niche you are the more
[0:39] opportunities there are these Brands
[0:41] these potential sponsors don't have a
[0:42] lot of places to to spend this cash like
[0:44] nobody else is doing that like this is
[0:47] why people should subscribe to the th
[0:48] media
[0:49] podcast if you want to tap into some of
[0:52] the best Frameworks that will help you
[0:54] negotiate help you raise your rates help
[0:57] you get started if you have a smaller or
[0:59] new channel or if you are a larger
[1:01] Creator help you earn more we're also
[1:04] going to be talking about the
[1:06] counterintuitive pricing strategy that
[1:08] landed a six-figure brand deal a single
[1:11] email template that landed deals with
[1:13] Fortune 500 Brands and how small
[1:16] creators can get paid more than
[1:19] influencers with bigger audiences so
[1:21] stick around until the end for that
[1:23] today's guest is Justin Moore who is a
[1:26] sponsorship coach and the founder of cre
[1:29] Creator wizard he's also the author of
[1:32] the brand new book sponsor magnet and he
[1:35] is a loved guest of the think media
[1:38] podcast and he's back for today's
[1:39] episode Justin welcome to the show dude
[1:42] beloved guests that's a title I I I'm
[1:45] going to claim that title I love that
[1:46] one glad to be back Sean what's going on
[1:48] man well let's go Z to 100 real quick
[1:51] and I'm curious you've generated over $5
[1:53] million in brand Partnerships what's the
[1:56] number one misconception costing
[1:57] creators money right now I think the
[1:59] biggest thing is thinking that the only
[2:02] way in which you can get deals is if you
[2:04] have a certain number of YouTube
[2:07] subscribers or a certain size of your
[2:09] audience if you know my wife and I
[2:11] started our first YouTube channel in
[2:12] 2009 you know as you mentioned we've
[2:14] done millions of dollars worth of deals
[2:16] five over 550 deals actually um and if
[2:20] you looked at our quote unquote
[2:21] influence today it's basically the
[2:24] lowest that's ever been in the last 15
[2:26] years candidly if you looked at our
[2:27] viewership and numbers and all that but
[2:29] we're making the most amount of money
[2:31] that we've ever made each year since
[2:32] then because we know what product we're
[2:36] selling to these Brands the product is
[2:38] not views the product is not reach the
[2:41] product is professionalism they know
[2:43] when they reach out to April and Justin
[2:45] they know what they're going to get
[2:46] we're going to hit every deadline we're
[2:48] going to hit every talking point with a
[2:49] plom if they come back to us with some
[2:51] feedback hey can you revise this you
[2:53] know little 20 seconds here do a new
[2:55] voiceover we say sure I got you no
[2:57] problem and so of all of the deals that
[3:00] we do a huge percentage of them are
[3:01] these recurring relationships that we've
[3:03] developed with Brands and agencies over
[3:06] many years and so if there's one big
[3:08] takeaway that you take from this
[3:09] conversation it's that it's that there's
[3:11] all these other intangible assets that
[3:13] you can hone and develop as a creator
[3:15] that can help you make more money on
[3:17] deals man that's inspiring and that
[3:19] means that there is an opportunity for
[3:21] all of us before I as ask this next
[3:23] question some creators are listening and
[3:25] i' would love for them to know about
[3:27] this idea of nanom micro and like macro
[3:30] influencers and what's possible for
[3:32] channels that are smaller so uh let me
[3:36] share answer that question with a a real
[3:38] story from one of my coaching clients
[3:39] her name is Dr Alex okay so she has a
[3:42] business called digital pathology place
[3:44] so she's a veterinarian a physician uh
[3:47] and she talks all about this really kind
[3:49] of very hyp specific topic of pathology
[3:52] digital pathology and so she is not
[3:54] getting tens of thousands hundreds of
[3:57] thousands of views on her videos on her
[3:59] podcasts episodes she's getting hundreds
[4:01] or thousands but do you know who's in
[4:03] her audience it's the doctors it's the
[4:06] lab techs it's the people who work at
[4:08] these medical device companies and she
[4:10] is absolutely crushing it with brand
[4:12] sponsorships because you know those
[4:14] these companies who are manufacturing
[4:16] the equipment that these people need
[4:17] where do they Market it's really
[4:19] difficult to find out places to deploy
[4:21] their marketing capital and so um you
[4:23] know when you think about kind of these
[4:25] hyp specific creators Niche and you know
[4:27] in these very specific industries that
[4:29] may not seem like I don't know is there
[4:31] any brands that would want to
[4:32] collaborate with me in my experience
[4:34] actually the more Niche you are the more
[4:36] opportunities there are uh because these
[4:39] Brands these potential sponsors don't
[4:40] have a lot of places to to spend this
[4:42] cash that's like one of the quotes of
[4:43] the year the more Niche you are the more
[4:46] opportunities there are it so speaks to
[4:49] just being strategic there's a classic
[4:51] marketing book called positioning like
[4:54] really narrowing in on your position and
[4:57] it's exciting because in the crater
[4:59] economy again I think everyone's chasing
[5:00] a lot of times when we start virality
[5:03] and millions of views but you can make
[5:05] big money with a small Channel and we're
[5:06] going to continue to unpack those
[5:08] strategies but can you actually walk us
[5:10] through the specific pricing strategy
[5:12] that helped Paul Jameson land his six
[5:15] figure sponsorship okay I love it so
[5:17] Paul Jameson is the host of a podcast
[5:21] called the green industry podcast so
[5:23] he's on YouTube he's on social media as
[5:25] well um but what he does you're going to
[5:27] love this Sean he teaches Lawn Care
[5:31] Professionals how to grow their business
[5:33] that's his business and he's doing 120
[5:36] 150,000 downloads a month on his podcast
[5:39] right and he is locking in these huge
[5:42] deals with the likes of Lowe's and John
[5:45] Deere and a lot of these mower companies
[5:47] equipment companies because again where
[5:50] do they if they want to sell these
[5:52] products where can they turn they can
[5:54] advertise in the you know uh prehistoric
[5:57] trade magazines they can try and run you
[6:00] know targeted ads maybe on Facebook
[6:02] that's kind of hard um but you know what
[6:04] they would love to do is they'd love to
[6:06] be able to align thems with the largest
[6:08] voice in their industry who is speaking
[6:10] to those professionals who are buying
[6:12] that equipment and that person is Paul
[6:14] one thing that I think a lot of people
[6:16] uh when they think about a brand deal or
[6:18] they think about a sponsorship they
[6:20] think about oh I'm going to like talk
[6:21] about this brand for 60 to 90 seconds on
[6:23] my YouTube video like an integration
[6:25] right you know the one of the most
[6:26] recent deals that Paul Inked with John
[6:28] Deere
[6:30] they hired him to do a live podcasting
[6:34] session in their booth at the largest
[6:37] trade show in their industry it's called
[6:39] equip it was back in October and they
[6:41] basically he's the largest name and they
[6:43] said hey we want you in our booth for
[6:44] the entire three days so what he did he
[6:47] had all of his friends come through and
[6:48] record episodes he had all the people on
[6:50] the marketing team record episodes from
[6:51] John Deere um and so does that sound
[6:53] like a typical sponsorship not really
[6:56] right um and so I I I hope that this is
[6:59] kind of stretching everyone's
[7:00] imaginations of like what can actually
[7:02] be possible if you develop an expertise
[7:04] in a very specific thing now I'm also
[7:06] curious that's pretty inspiring and it
[7:09] speaks to just the evolution of the
[7:10] Creator economy and things being so much
[7:14] different than we may have think they
[7:15] look we just think it's maybe like one
[7:16] video one payment and that's what it is
[7:20] when you also talk about six figure
[7:22] sponsorships do you encourage people to
[7:25] pursue longer term deals whatever
[7:28] details you can share of that six figure
[7:30] sponsorship of how it might have been
[7:32] structured that could be different than
[7:33] how we would assume yeah so of course
[7:35] like I want to respect Paul's privacy
[7:37] and so he you know I can't talk the
[7:38] exact specifics of like what the deal
[7:40] Dynamics are but rest assured like he's
[7:42] he's doing all sorts of types of deals I
[7:44] would say some that are recurring some
[7:46] that are you know these one-off kind of
[7:48] very large Chun let's like put Paul
[7:51] aside like if there's types long short
[7:55] that you know let's so let's let's
[7:57] actually split hairs real quickly here
[7:58] because the the occurring sponsorships
[8:00] are the dream for anyone regardless of
[8:02] what the Cadence is right just something
[8:04] more than just like a one-off thing um
[8:07] the the challenge with trying to pitch a
[8:09] brand that you've never worked with on a
[8:11] recurring deal is that they have been
[8:14] burned a lot by creators in the past
[8:17] where a creator has promised the world
[8:20] to them and failed to deliver they
[8:21] weren't professional they didn't turn
[8:23] things in on time the work quality was
[8:25] substandard uh and so they're very
[8:27] nervous and before they have any sort of
[8:29] experience working with you it's going
[8:31] to be pretty hard to convince a sponsor
[8:33] to sign on to a 12-month deal with you
[8:35] and so by sincere advices in the
[8:36] beginning just blow their absolute socks
[8:38] off on this first deal uh and then
[8:41] that's when you can Broach this topic of
[8:43] like a a longer term engagement and so
[8:45] once you do illustrate that you're
[8:47] awesome and you had great results from
[8:49] that first partnership um one of the
[8:51] things I talk about is the importance of
[8:53] putting together what's called a post
[8:55] campaign report where you actually are
[8:57] not just sending screenshots to them
[8:59] when they're asking you're saying hey
[9:01] not only am I going to share you the
[9:02] quantitative performance of this
[9:04] campaign but I'm going to share you some
[9:05] qualitative insights that I had hey I
[9:08] actually had people dming me or
[9:10] responding to my email blast that I made
[9:12] about this partnership and they said XYZ
[9:15] I actually and and maybe it was a maybe
[9:16] a neutral or a negative comment it
[9:18] wasn't like oh I love the brand it was
[9:19] like this brand sucks and here's the
[9:21] reason why it sucks you know I and you
[9:23] say hey I got like five comments like
[9:25] that I actually think we should lean
[9:26] into that in another integration
[9:29] together where we lean into this
[9:31] objection that people are having uh
[9:33] about your product and allowing you to
[9:36] say hey oh we actually reformulated the
[9:38] product six months ago like maybe people
[9:40] don't know that let's talk about that in
[9:42] the next version and so a lot of it
[9:43] comes down to actually cycling feedback
[9:45] from your audience back to the brand so
[9:47] you can have some insights what's what
[9:49] to Target for uh some additional
[9:51] engagements every day you want to start
[9:53] your YouTube channel is another day of
[9:55] missed opportunities and untap potential
[9:57] here's the truth YouTube reaches more 18
[10:00] to 49y olds than all the cable networks
[10:03] combined the opportunity is massive and
[10:06] the think media team and I want to help
[10:07] you seize it I'm excited to announce our
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[11:32] recurring sponsorships are the dream but
[11:35] chances are going you know from not
[11:37] knowing the brand or working with them
[11:38] to a reoccurring you don't even know if
[11:41] you want to do it necessarily so that's
[11:43] probably not step one and in a New Year
[11:46] being aware that brands have been burned
[11:49] so also be thinking about okay one of
[11:51] the goals maybe is to Let's lock in
[11:54] something that can essentially be a
[11:55] chance to date each other before we get
[11:57] married for a year and or 6 months and
[12:01] blow their socks off do a post campaign
[12:04] report and then keep the conversation
[12:06] going am I hearing you correctly 100%
[12:09] 100% because again especially when you
[12:11] give them that post campaign report that
[12:13] no other Creator is doing they're going
[12:15] to say wow this person is actually
[12:17] invested in the outcome of what we're
[12:20] trying to accomplish as a brand they're
[12:21] not just in it for the money they also
[12:24] dude you know you know why people don't
[12:25] do this Sean you know why people don't
[12:27] uh come back to the brand with this type
[12:29] of data is they are terrified of asking
[12:32] the brand hey how did it go because
[12:34] they're worried that the brand said hey
[12:36] thanks for asking it was awful you suck
[12:38] we hate you never talk to us again
[12:40] that's what they're were I get it that's
[12:41] what you know oh you didn't drive any
[12:42] sales like don't you know how dare you
[12:44] we want our money back this type of
[12:45] thing in all reality a brand will almost
[12:48] never say that to you um first of all if
[12:50] they say hey it went awesome now is your
[12:53] ticket to say okay great let's do
[12:55] another let's do another campaign
[12:56] together right um but if they say well
[12:59] it just went okay um you know we were
[13:02] hoping it drove more views or more sales
[13:04] or whatever that's your chance to lean
[13:05] into it right um you know the uh Nelson
[13:08] Mandela has this famous quote he said
[13:10] you know I never lose I either win or
[13:13] learn and this is the mindset that you
[13:15] need to take into asking these questions
[13:17] to these Brands um that you're never
[13:19] going to lose you're all you're going to
[13:20] learn something and maybe maybe it'll
[13:22] actually lead to you improving the way
[13:24] in which you actually fulfill these
[13:25] sponsorships Brands I'm curious your
[13:28] take on this
[13:30] some of the things they still do often
[13:32] is they do things like trade shows and
[13:34] they sponsor events and they set up a
[13:36] booth and sometimes because this has
[13:38] happened for us a lot and sometimes like
[13:40] I'm I'm surprised by their expectations
[13:42] you know if we do a physical event they
[13:44] might be willing to pay 5 10 15 20 25
[13:48] $30,000 and they fly their team out and
[13:50] they pay for their team's meals and they
[13:52] pay for their teams hotels and they do
[13:54] all their stuff I'm like this is a
[13:54] pretty big investment and they'll
[13:56] sometimes do this for an event that is
[13:59] 500 people or less 300 people or less
[14:02] and I I am invested in Brands what
[14:05] winning winning looks like for them as
[14:07] I've grown in my career and I found that
[14:09] sometimes like their expectations just
[14:11] trying to affirm what you're saying are
[14:12] like lower than I would think it's
[14:14] sometimes like I don't like directly
[14:17] they're probably not going to make 40
[14:19] Grand necessarily like maybe they're
[14:22] looking at LTV they're looking at Brand
[14:23] awareness but sometimes it's like what
[14:25] are they also in it for they want like
[14:27] photos at the booth they want the
[14:29] association with your brand the longtime
[14:31] term awareness they have a marketing
[14:33] budget to spend an event budget to spend
[14:36] so I guess I'm just trying to say that
[14:37] like if they said it went okay you could
[14:40] tell me maybe deeper insights on this
[14:43] like Roi of sales of course is the thing
[14:45] we're solving for but but then your
[14:47] ability to lean deeper they still might
[14:49] be kind of happy because they got some
[14:50] assets they can use those assets for
[14:52] like a year later and you could leverage
[14:54] off of that to like not be overly
[14:56] stressed I mean because again they can
[14:58] self-define whether they like to work
[14:59] with you or not but lean into it I just
[15:02] am affirming like if you lean into it
[15:04] it's like well let's keep working and
[15:05] like what else could we do for you or
[15:06] what else would make it and and the
[15:08] definition of their win could be broader
[15:10] than like how many views the video got
[15:13] um or what their win could look like
[15:15] next time if you stay creative any
[15:16] thoughts on that observation dude not
[15:19] only is that observation so sound but
[15:22] I've actually codified this which is
[15:24] into something that I call the arc
[15:25] framework so there's three goals that
[15:28] every brand will have when they want to
[15:29] collaborate with you Arc that first is
[15:33] awareness where they are you know have a
[15:36] new campaign uh for a new product that
[15:39] they're launching maybe they were only
[15:41] available in the UK now they're coming
[15:43] to the US or maybe they're running a
[15:44] seasonal promotion that is an awareness
[15:46] focused campaign the r in Arc is
[15:49] repurposing so what you just mentioned
[15:51] may be a big goal of theirs is you know
[15:54] what we don't have a lot of great
[15:55] content that we can post on our
[15:56] platforms on our social media or run for
[15:59] paid advertising man we would love to
[16:01] get uh you know photos videos from
[16:03] growth video live and and be able to
[16:05] repurpose that and show our brand as
[16:07] advocates of the community that's huge
[16:09] for us we would love that uh and then
[16:11] the C in Arc is conversion so it's that
[16:14] last thing you said about yeah we want
[16:15] to drive sales we want to drive leads we
[16:17] want to drive trial signups to our
[16:18] software um and so it's so so important
[16:22] when you were first engaging with a
[16:23] brand to ask them this question what
[16:26] would success look like to you what is
[16:28] your your goal because what you pitch
[16:31] actually actually has to change based on
[16:34] that not only what your pitch has to
[16:35] change but what you charge has to change
[16:37] man that's great um I I want to lean
[16:41] into the repurposing one right now just
[16:43] to kind of go a little bit
[16:45] deeper how should we think about
[16:48] charging and protecting ourselves I
[16:52] think it's one of the last things
[16:53] creators think about is usage rights and
[16:57] perpetuity usage rights
[16:59] so if we're an early Creator sometimes
[17:02] we might
[17:03] think um man the Brand's going to give
[17:05] us 100 bucks 500 bucks $1,000 in free
[17:08] product and it's really cool and that's
[17:10] happening all over the Creator economy
[17:12] for all kinds of small
[17:14] channels
[17:15] and in that we are happy with the deal
[17:18] because you know we're agreeing to it
[17:20] it's a nice upstart but in the contract
[17:23] it
[17:24] says we can use your likeness in this
[17:26] content in perpetuity for
[17:29] 10 Generations you know what I mean like
[17:31] forever literally a thousand years from
[17:34] now we're going to still be able to use
[17:35] this now what's also interesting is
[17:36] there's even some public celebrities
[17:39] that have like they their rights were
[17:42] you know given away when they were doing
[17:43] advertising 10 years ago than their
[17:45] famous movie star now and they're and
[17:48] that company's still leveraging it and
[17:49] and sometimes they can't even do
[17:51] anything about it so it's kind culu simu
[17:54] do you remember the stock photos that
[17:55] Sim mulu did before he was a celebrity
[17:58] and they own the right to that forever
[17:59] now he's a famous movie star isn't he in
[18:01] one of the Marvel movies yeah yeah he
[18:03] was yeah exactly so simu is in one of
[18:06] the Marvel movies super famous now but
[18:09] yet that original stock photos he did he
[18:12] signed away writes I think I want
[18:14] listeners to see you never know who
[18:17] you're going to become uh you never know
[18:20] and and regardless it's your likeness
[18:22] anyways but like you never know how big
[18:24] you'll become you'll never know what
[18:25] your your your usage and rights would be
[18:28] like and then if anything I think
[18:30] there's also something about like I
[18:32] think it'd be very reasonable to give
[18:33] somebody a year two even three cuz in
[18:36] some cases what we're talking about is
[18:37] you don't know how long your career is
[18:38] going to be so you don't know that like
[18:41] you're you're probably not going to be a
[18:43] in Marvel movies in one or two years but
[18:46] you might be in 5 to 10 like the places
[18:50] you could be and so even if a Brand's
[18:54] like we for sure need to use this you're
[18:56] like well 24 months might be a great cap
[18:58] so it's literally not perpetuity is so
[19:00] insane perpet me literally forever is
[19:03] crazy so thoughts on this how you would
[19:05] price different things that you would
[19:07] look for in contracts you know just red
[19:09] flags so you maybe or or just things
[19:11] like easy like I get you want to use
[19:13] this you want to run ads on it that's
[19:14] part of why you're paying me even for
[19:16] maybe ugc too like even if you're just
[19:18] going to use me on your website but do
[19:20] you think capping it at one two years
[19:23] Andor asking for just a higher price and
[19:26] a lot of creators listening to this are
[19:28] afraid to make these push backs because
[19:31] it's like man I don't want to mess up
[19:32] the deal right right so 100% you should
[19:36] be capping the duration of the usage
[19:39] rights for sure because not only as you
[19:43] said could things change a lot uh in you
[19:46] know a relatively short time frame uh
[19:48] but in reality the likelihood that a
[19:50] brand is really going to use this asset
[19:52] of yours forever is super low so being
[19:55] able to educate them they they may just
[19:58] saying well this is standard we get per
[20:00] Perpetual usage rights for everyone they
[20:02] they try to pull this card on you and
[20:04] you say okay well I understand that I
[20:05] respect that um you know in all
[20:07] likelihood this is a seasonal campaign
[20:10] that I'm going to be talking about doing
[20:11] this ugc for you the likelihood of you
[20:13] know you needing this in five years is
[20:16] going to be very unlikely so you know
[20:19] capping it at a year is probably you're
[20:21] going to get a lot of utility out of
[20:22] this for the next year uh and so that
[20:24] should be that should be sufficient I do
[20:26] have actually though a a a rule thumb
[20:29] formula that I talk about in my book
[20:30] sponsor magnet um for pricing these
[20:33] types of things um and so when it comes
[20:35] down to licensing so if the brand is
[20:37] asking to take your content and use it
[20:40] on their platforms on their website on
[20:42] their social media on an e-commerce
[20:44] Partners site or whatever um I I advise
[20:47] charging
[20:48] 15% of the base deal size per 30day
[20:53] period so if they're if they're paying
[20:55] you $10,000 let's say for the content
[20:57] creation as part of this project um then
[20:59] you're going to be charging an
[21:00] incremental
[21:01] $1,500 per 30 days um so that's for
[21:04] licensing however if they want to uh
[21:07] actually leverage the content that you
[21:10] natively post on your platform and
[21:12] amplify it or boost it sometimes called
[21:15] allow listing um this is where you're
[21:17] actually allowing them to basically to
[21:19] get into the back end of your Facebook
[21:21] or Instagram or you're giving them like
[21:22] a spark code it's called on Tik Tok um
[21:25] to run ads basically with the content
[21:27] you posted
[21:29] that's more like 25% of the base deal
[21:31] size so that would be an incremental
[21:33] $2,500 in that example a month and so
[21:36] what you'll quickly see actually is that
[21:38] let's say that they wanted rights for
[21:39] six months you actually might make more
[21:42] money in usage rights than you do in
[21:45] generating the content itself and this
[21:47] is maybe shocking to some people who
[21:48] hear this but this is fairly standard uh
[21:51] in advertising brands are used to paying
[21:54] for a fixed fee for the actual
[21:55] generation of the content but they have
[21:57] to pay the platforms Facebook Instagram
[22:00] YouTube Etc to continue running this ad
[22:02] you know what's interesting is that I um
[22:06] right now we have a a brand that is
[22:08] running ads on an organic YouTube
[22:11] video but you're kind of Shifting my
[22:13] thinking because I was like well we
[22:17] actually make a little bit of AD Revenue
[22:18] off of that and it's actually still to
[22:20] our affiliate
[22:21] links maybe let me tell me tell me if
[22:24] you would in my case if it'd be
[22:26] different I was like sounds like win-win
[22:29] like you're going to drive views on that
[22:31] video up I will get 50% of those dollars
[22:36] in the YouTube Partner program ad
[22:37] revenue and YouTube will get the other
[22:39] 50% they're just probably organic
[22:41] they're clearly organically wanting to
[22:43] push awareness of their product harder
[22:46] than the than the organic reach of my
[22:48] video um and then as a result though the
[22:51] call to action in the videoos to the
[22:53] description so it it is I attribution
[22:57] for affiliate sales is sometimes tough
[22:58] for me uh generally but nevertheless I
[23:01] guarantee it'll drive we already know we
[23:03] can attribute some and will attribute
[23:05] more because they're purely putting you
[23:07] know more paid ads behind that video
[23:10] it's fascinating to me though that you
[23:11] would say that'd be an additional 25%
[23:13] just to allow them to do that so based
[23:15] on my logic would you still say that's
[23:16] the same thing you absolutely should be
[23:18] charging them for the privilege to run
[23:19] ads to your organic content 100% And and
[23:22] in fact this should not be an either or
[23:25] this should be something you negotiate
[23:26] into the deal and say hey in addition to
[23:28] running ads on on this YouTube video
[23:31] which is great awesome great for
[23:32] everyone you should be running ads on
[23:35] you you should you know be running ads
[23:37] on your platforms with this content
[23:39] here's the here's the file here's a 30-
[23:40] second cutdown of it here go run ads on
[23:42] Facebook and Instagram uh you know go
[23:44] buck wild embeding this on your website
[23:46] on e-commerce whatever because they you
[23:49] never know what's going to perform the
[23:50] best this this is the beauty SL curse of
[23:54] advertising is that you never really
[23:55] know where what's going to be the most
[23:57] efficient ad spent what what cut of that
[24:00] asset I could share a quick story here
[24:01] uh when I ran an influencer marketing
[24:03] agency for about seven years uh a very
[24:05] large phone carrier hired our company to
[24:08] uh hire a bunch of creators create some
[24:09] content but the primary reason that they
[24:11] wanted to run this campaign was to get
[24:12] the assets to run for ads and so we got
[24:14] I don't know something 10 to 15
[24:16] different videos and assets from these
[24:17] creators and there was this one video in
[24:19] particular that was super high quality
[24:22] it was like super polished professional
[24:24] beautiful b-roll and I was sure I was
[24:26] like man this video is going to crush as
[24:28] an like this is so beautiful and then we
[24:30] had a smattering of other types of uh
[24:32] creators but then there was this one
[24:33] video that was awful dude it looked like
[24:36] it was shot on a potato it was like on a
[24:37] Nokia like brick phone it was so low
[24:39] quality it was super low res it just was
[24:42] like terrible and guess which one
[24:44] performed better as an
[24:46] ad the baked potato the baked potato bro
[24:50] you you never know like what is going to
[24:52] perform best as an ad and so it's part
[24:54] of this is like educating the brand of
[24:57] it's important to like test different
[24:59] things uh to see which performs the best
[25:01] man that's uh very insightful and some
[25:03] very practical tips in regards to
[25:06] especially licensing it's like a lot of
[25:07] people forget about that ask the brands
[25:10] what they want use the arc formula
[25:12] awareness repurposing and conversion
[25:14] could be their goals getting clear on
[25:16] their goals you've also helped creators
[25:17] land deals with Major Brands can you
[25:19] share the email template that's worked
[25:21] best when working with Fortune 500
[25:24] companies obviously it's going to be
[25:25] verbal whether people watch the video
[25:26] podcast or audio but kind of maybe what
[25:28] what is that outline of that or what's
[25:30] the power of this the subject line
[25:31] things like that all right so uh I teach
[25:34] a a pitching method called the Rope
[25:36] method I talk about it in my book
[25:37] sponsor magnet and basically it's r o p
[25:41] so R stands for your pitch has to be
[25:43] relevant to a campaign that the brand is
[25:45] either currently running or has run in
[25:47] the past o stands for organic meaning
[25:50] that you can tie your pitch back to
[25:51] organic content that you've already
[25:54] posted that illustrates that your
[25:55] audience has an affinity for their brand
[25:58] or product P stands for proof so you can
[26:00] illustrate how you've helped other
[26:01] brands achieve results and E stands for
[26:04] easy to execute when the brand says yeah
[26:06] oh this is interesting what did you have
[26:08] in mind and so the form that this takes
[26:11] so actually should we do a real life
[26:13] teaching example here this might
[26:14] actually make it really tangible for
[26:15] people give me a brand give me a brand
[26:18] Sean that you said oh this is a dream
[26:19] brand for think media I I would love to
[26:21] collaborate one well we've done it
[26:23] before but let's just say we want to
[26:25] re-engage with Canon cameras Canon
[26:28] in this year
[26:31] and we've done some stuff over the past
[26:34] but there's staff
[26:36] changes um they're also they've got a us
[26:39] but they're such a global company that
[26:41] sometimes like and so sometimes too we
[26:44] don't know what their priorities are or
[26:46] what I think their priorities are as far
[26:48] as new cameras or whatever so um that's
[26:52] yeah that's kind of an update so
[26:53] re-engaging with them in our case would
[26:55] be fun okay all right so what I am doing
[26:58] in the background while you were talking
[27:00] about this is I pulled up Canon's
[27:03] Instagram so I'm looking at Canon USA
[27:06] okay actually you know what I'm gonna
[27:07] share my screen here how about that is
[27:08] that fun uh I'm gonna share my screen if
[27:10] you're listening on audio this might be
[27:12] one you would come you know visit the
[27:13] YouTube channel check out the screen
[27:15] share or just listen along and we'll
[27:16] narrate assuming people are also hearing
[27:18] Audio Only okay all right so uh we're
[27:21] here on uh Canon USA's Instagram um and
[27:25] what I'm doing so first of all if you're
[27:27] a YouTuber listen to this and you're
[27:28] thinking I'm not on Instagram I hate
[27:30] Instagram I don't like social media look
[27:33] Instagram is a research tool okay brands
[27:38] are basically telling you what is
[27:39] important to them they're posting about
[27:41] the campaigns and the things that are
[27:42] important to them so you know what I'm
[27:43] going to do uh time of recording you
[27:45] know we're we're recording this in
[27:47] January of 2025 but you know what if we
[27:49] want to pitch Canon we're not going to
[27:51] pitch a New Year resolution you always
[27:54] want to become a photographer get your
[27:55] gear that's that's a campaign that was
[27:57] fully 6 months ago Sean you know we want
[28:00] to be pitching to Canon we want to be
[28:01] pitching spring summer we want to know
[28:04] what were they doing last spring or
[28:06] summer because in all likelihood because
[28:09] in all likelihood they're going to run
[28:10] similar campaigns to that so what I'm
[28:12] doing is I'm scrolling back scrolling
[28:14] scrolling scrolling I'm looking okay
[28:16] what were they talking about last year
[28:18] right so of course they're talking about
[28:19] all sorts of cameras uh that are that
[28:21] are releasing okay what is this harmony
[28:23] at work okay Harmony here we go Harmony
[28:27] there's a URL here here Harmony for
[28:29] every you I'm just going to open that
[28:31] because I don't know what that is but
[28:32] I'm curious I want to find out I'm
[28:34] scrolling scrolling scrolling let's see
[28:36] who's this guy Canon Explorer of light
[28:39] so here's a hashtag that we could go
[28:40] down a rabbit hole and see what that's
[28:42] about um let's see here um fantasy
[28:46] photography I'm also looking okay Canon
[28:48] explor we are we are proud to welcome a
[28:51] new class of storytellers to the Canon
[28:53] Explorer of light program okay so this
[28:54] was in May of 2024 so this looks like
[28:58] they probably identified a group of I
[29:00] don't know based on this video I'm
[29:01] watching maybe six or seven people uh
[29:04] who are in they're inducting and I don't
[29:05] know some sort of incubator maybe
[29:07] accelerator to like you know help them
[29:09] level up their skills potentially um and
[29:12] so you know what your pitch is to them
[29:14] Sean uh wow I loved this Canon Explorer
[29:17] of light program you did last may we
[29:19] were I was curious are you going to be
[29:20] running inducting another class of
[29:23] storytellers into this program in 2025
[29:26] what if we partnered together to help
[29:29] recruit for the application process for
[29:32] this next um group of people we have a
[29:35] huge you know reach on our YouTube
[29:37] channel on our newsletter of aspiring
[29:38] filmmakers and storytellers why don't we
[29:40] partner together to really blow this
[29:42] thing up that's the pitch man it's so
[29:45] genius because then it's also you've
[29:48] um
[29:51] ultimately shown you've done your
[29:53] research they they can tell that you
[29:55] care the answer could be as simple no
[29:58] we're not going to do that again but and
[30:01] and like but you you've built like
[30:04] nobody else is doing that like this is
[30:06] why people should subscribe to the th
[30:08] media podcast because at this moment in
[30:09] the show the kind of gems you get you
[30:11] want to be doing what nobody else is
[30:12] doing thinking how nobody else is
[30:14] thinking and uh it's such a better foot
[30:17] in the door it just people can tell you
[30:19] prepared people can tell you did your
[30:21] research and that's a gangster tip too
[30:23] because to be thoughtful not even just
[30:25] their Instagram it's too late if it's
[30:27] the campaign that's happening now they
[30:29] cooked that up a long time ago but to go
[30:31] back to the the previous year season
[30:33] it's genius dude so so I love what you
[30:37] brought up which is like they may not be
[30:39] into this they may not be doing that
[30:41] program again uh but that's not the
[30:43] point you gave them something tangible
[30:46] that they could react to they could say
[30:48] hey we love your initiative here um you
[30:50] know so going back to the Rope uh the
[30:51] the template right of what you say it's
[30:53] like the r is the relevancy right it's
[30:55] the subject line of this email is #
[30:57] Canon of light in 2025 question mark
[31:01] That's the subject line they're going to
[31:02] open that email they're not going to
[31:03] open 1 million plus subscriber YouTube
[31:06] channel collaboration question mark
[31:08] right where it's like oh I have this
[31:09] many followers of this many subscribers
[31:11] delete ghost they don't know who you are
[31:12] they don't care what's in it for them
[31:14] right the first line is what we just
[31:16] talked about it's about this program and
[31:17] then the O the organic part of this
[31:20] pitch is you're going to link to some
[31:23] sort of uh similar contest giveaway
[31:26] recruitment thing that you guys have
[31:27] done in the past to try to recruit
[31:29] people and by the way if you haven't
[31:31] done something like that in the past
[31:33] Sean people listening might be like well
[31:34] I've never done something like that
[31:35] before that's relevant to this campaign
[31:37] you make a post about it proactively
[31:40] before you pitch them so it may not be
[31:42] super relevant in this scenario but like
[31:44] you could imagine if you're pitching uh
[31:45] a food brand or something and they were
[31:47] talking about a uh you know the
[31:49] Mediterranean diet or something you go
[31:51] back and you make a post about the
[31:52] Mediterranean diet month you get a bunch
[31:54] of amazing feedback engagement from your
[31:56] audience that's awesome and so you see
[31:58] this so it requires a bit of
[32:00] intentionality for your own content
[32:02] strategy knowing that yes it's going to
[32:03] serve my audience of course but it's
[32:05] also going to double as fodder when I
[32:08] pitch this brand because it's relevant
[32:09] to something that they care about as
[32:10] well so that's o p is proof so this is
[32:13] you saying hey happy to share some
[32:15] insights of how I've helped Sony you
[32:17] know achieve results XYZ in this other
[32:19] campaign and then the E easy to execute
[32:22] this is really important it's you're
[32:24] telling them exactly what you're going
[32:25] to do for them you say hey for this
[32:26] Canon explor of light thing
[32:28] we could do three integrated YouTube
[32:30] videos we can do two dedicated email
[32:31] blasts trying to recruit people to apply
[32:33] for your you know this new program uh we
[32:35] can turn this around within 10 days uh
[32:38] are you free on Thursday at 10 a.m. to
[32:39] talk about this so you're you're telling
[32:41] them exactly what you would do it's so
[32:43] much such a good template like and so
[32:46] much more detailed than like hey do
[32:48] y'all work with creators yeah and I know
[32:51] too man it's like I put like people
[32:53] reach out to us at think media like even
[32:56] maybe they want to hey I would love to
[32:58] work for you for free you know for a
[33:00] while or like learn something not
[33:02] realizing that like number one I don't
[33:04] want to sound entitled here but like
[33:06] that's actually more of a burden than it
[33:08] would be a blessing because I don't know
[33:11] what you would do I have to think about
[33:13] that I have to take the energy to to to
[33:15] on board you as a the the reverse could
[33:18] be
[33:19] hey I will edit vertical videos for you
[33:23] for free all I need is like a Dropbox of
[33:26] raw footage or if you're cool if I do on
[33:27] the YouTube channel would you consider
[33:28] reviewing them and and even better here
[33:31] they are and then it's like maybe like
[33:33] sweet that would you know it's like
[33:34] doing the heavy lift and so the fact
[33:36] that relevant to a campaign you look
[33:38] that up from their Instagram or social
[33:40] media or website you look it up a
[33:41] previous year the audience has an
[33:43] affinity to me that's sequencing you
[33:45] said it takes more preparation but this
[33:47] just shows you man how bad do you want
[33:49] it think media podcast are you willing
[33:51] if it's like okay I would love to work
[33:53] with barbecue Brands and I'm I could do
[33:56] electri gills grills gas grills pellet
[33:59] stoves like grills so I already have a
[34:02] grill and I don't have a video yet so
[34:04] I'm going to make one do it awesome even
[34:07] link to it as an affiliate to any brand
[34:09] the brand that you have which could then
[34:12] show proof and maybe you don't need that
[34:14] much proof like Amazon will show you if
[34:16] you make a great YouTube video rank it
[34:19] get some views on it get it popping in
[34:21] the algorithm generate 5 10 15 20 sales
[34:25] over 30 to 60 days screenshot shot your
[34:28] Amazon one of the reasons we actually
[34:30] got a brand deal that was from a super
[34:32] large brand was almost like I don't know
[34:35] why they said yes mean meanly like they
[34:37] here's the key they did not care about
[34:39] performance we just showed them how many
[34:42] how results we'd already gotten in
[34:44] Affiliates and they I I mean I don't
[34:45] know what they were thinking obviously
[34:48] performance still was part of it but it
[34:49] was like they were like oh you've like
[34:51] already like it was like so like they
[34:53] owed us they were like you've already
[34:54] stole plenty of cameras for us like we
[34:57] will just do a deal with you like and so
[35:00] but that was because of doing affiliate
[35:02] marketing first so I love this idea it's
[35:04] kind of like have the proof is also kind
[35:07] of like having a portfolio like organic
[35:09] content your your audience already loves
[35:11] the grill content or the skin care or
[35:12] whatever it is but doing the heavy
[35:15] lifting on the easy to execute like this
[35:18] is a great video so if I was to think
[35:21] about Canon I went to their website and
[35:22] I'm thinking about like the cameras I
[35:24] already love which may not be what they
[35:27] want to promote that's what I've learned
[35:28] is that sometimes they're thinking
[35:29] entirely different than like what I want
[35:31] to promote however because I do know our
[35:34] audience so like the e50 or the r10
[35:36] there's a couple Creator kits on those
[35:38] and like the
[35:40] r10 is just 200 bucks off on their
[35:43] website and it's all in one box for
[35:45] creators with the microphone and
[35:46] whatever else and it's also got 42
[35:48] reviews I'm just looking at you know so
[35:49] I'm like that man that's a good fit for
[35:51] think media now they may and say or
[35:54] something else but it would still show
[35:55] we've done the heavy lift like this is
[35:56] the exact video that that would be
[35:58] inspired we think it' do like this video
[36:00] over here um and it also might tie into
[36:03] this summer campaign you did last year
[36:04] cuz people are thinking about traveling
[36:06] vlogging during the summer whatever else
[36:08] cool and so you just on the heavy lift
[36:10] plus we could email plus we could post
[36:11] on social uh and and then would you also
[36:14] put price and would you say or would you
[36:16] say meet like if you want to discuss
[36:18] this let's meet absolutely you got to
[36:20] you got to get them on a phone call
[36:21] because again uh what what you propose
[36:24] is likely in all in all likelihood not
[36:27] going to be what they want to move
[36:28] forward with they're not going to be
[36:28] like okay where do I sign it's going to
[36:30] be more like a conversation like hey I I
[36:32] love these pieces of the of the idea but
[36:35] we want this a little bit differently
[36:36] over here and so it has to turn into a
[36:38] conversation um because you can't price
[36:40] yourself in a vacuum you have to know
[36:41] again what their goals are what are
[36:43] their objectives are um that this is
[36:45] part of probably a whole other
[36:46] conversation about pricing um but but
[36:48] real quickly I wanted to uh book in this
[36:51] topic around the pitch um and and help
[36:54] help everyone listening and watching
[36:56] understand that it's not just this this
[36:58] doesn't just work for social media this
[37:00] doesn't just work for you know
[37:03] collaborating on you know YouTube and
[37:04] Instagram and podcast and stuff like
[37:06] that this is a universal pitching
[37:08] framework that works regardless of where
[37:10] your influence is heck I am you know
[37:12] launching my very first in-person event
[37:14] in March in San Antonio and I am
[37:16] currently pitching Brands to sponsor the
[37:18] event right so you know events are like
[37:20] a you're getting sponsors to events is
[37:22] like a big way in which conference
[37:23] organizers and event or organizers are
[37:25] able to make uh those things profitable
[37:27] or at least not lose a bunch of money um
[37:29] and so you have to apply the same
[37:32] principle to your pitches when it comes
[37:33] to events a lot of people think like oh
[37:35] here's the gold you know silver you know
[37:37] Platinum package for you know pick one
[37:39] to sponsor our event no it's all about
[37:42] how do you convince the sponsor that
[37:43] you're going to help them accomplish
[37:44] their business objectives by showing up
[37:46] and sponsoring your event so you lead
[37:48] with hey I I it seems like this thing is
[37:51] really important to you in q1 or Q2
[37:53] here's how we can integrate that into
[37:55] the event so that you can the needle on
[37:58] that like kpi or that key performance
[38:00] indicator that you have for a company so
[38:02] this is a a universal uh piece of advice
[38:04] regardless of like where you've built
[38:06] your influence man it's powerful advice
[38:08] now I do want to touch on I think
[38:12] another framework that we could go a
[38:15] little deeper on the do rule in a second
[38:17] you've already shared the arc framework
[38:19] and the Rope method with us um and then
[38:21] a few other questions towards the end of
[38:23] the episode but I want to ask you've
[38:25] helped smaller creators outperform big
[38:27] accounts
[38:28] what do you think what is like the key
[38:30] strategy for commanding higher rates
[38:31] with a small audience dude just be nice
[38:34] be polite be professional turn stuff in
[38:37] on time bro you know how many times when
[38:39] I when I ran the agency you know how
[38:40] many times we hired a creator that is
[38:41] twice as expensive and and smaller
[38:44] because we' worked with them in the past
[38:45] and we knew that they were professional
[38:47] and good and not a diva or dvo and
[38:50] anytime we came back to them with a
[38:51] small little you know edit request oh
[38:53] yeah no problem I got you um you know
[38:55] how many times we hired those people
[38:57] over the bigger footprint Creator a huge
[39:00] amount of times huge amount of times and
[39:02] so again uh I know that this feels like
[39:04] maybe TR advice but it's true this is
[39:06] this is real there's human beings on the
[39:09] other end of these Brands I think
[39:10] sometimes we look at them as these
[39:12] amorphous entities oh it's a brand
[39:14] they're they're huge and and you know
[39:15] you know they're so professional and all
[39:17] this but it's like it's a person and
[39:18] they want to enjoy their day-to-day life
[39:21] and so they want to work with also
[39:23] people and so if you can treat them like
[39:25] humans that goes so far dude really does
[39:28] yeah that's so powerful and man this
[39:29] whole professional I think that it's
[39:31] it's tough in the crater economy but I
[39:34] think about this in any business I got a
[39:35] friend running a roofing company and he
[39:40] uh I mean it's the eight figureure
[39:41] roofing company scaled it up over the
[39:43] years and he he came from the background
[39:46] of almost being like
[39:49] broke on drugs struggling family issues
[39:54] and now like has built up and I I think
[39:57] his commitment in life has been like
[39:59] it's kind of been like Excellence it's
[40:01] like turning pro and he's like his
[40:05] approach towards then his health his
[40:06] approached towards his business he's
[40:08] starting to create content now but one
[40:10] of the things he told me was he was like
[40:12] um our sales reps and stuff we show up
[40:15] with the polo on and the logo the iPad
[40:18] and a presentation that runs them
[40:20] through what they're going to get text
[40:23] message followup and phone calls when
[40:27] the consultant or the person who's going
[40:29] to coach him on the roof is on the way M
[40:32] hey scheduling your call for tomorrow
[40:34] awesome we're 15 minutes out hey like
[40:38] and he's leveraging technology to do it
[40:41] so he's also and he's like no other
[40:44] roofing companies and and and competitor
[40:46] roofing companies are they may be doing
[40:49] 1 two three million a year Topline
[40:51] Revenue but they're struggling they're
[40:53] they're kind of like they're sort of
[40:55] stuck and one of the reason they're
[40:57] stuck is be is just because of a lack of
[41:00] strong brand strong professionalism
[41:02] because it's kind of ma and PAW I
[41:05] encourage listeners it's kind of a
[41:06] different mindset like why can't you be
[41:08] thinking big in small places don't let
[41:11] your small YouTube channel make you
[41:12] small-minded what would it look like to
[41:14] turn your professionalism up your brand
[41:17] your dress how you're showing up on
[41:20] calls how you're showing up and maybe it
[41:22] is it's your your logo your
[41:24] professionalism listen we're all about
[41:26] punch fear in the face press record
[41:28] start with what you have get 1% better
[41:30] with every upload but the pursuit of
[41:32] mastering the pursuit of Excellence is a
[41:34] lifelong Pursuit and and you just say
[41:37] then it's kindness professional it makes
[41:39] me think customer service I got a friend
[41:41] in in Las Vegas Rachel sne who runs
[41:44] wedding chapels and she carries that
[41:48] Spirit of Excellence it's like this this
[41:51] like biblical Spirit of Daniel in the
[41:53] Book of Daniel was like he he had an
[41:55] excellent Spirit like and it it was like
[41:57] an excellent and it was customer service
[42:00] how people are treated and you know
[42:03] what's crazy and I think you'd agree
[42:04] with this Justin
[42:06] 99% just won't ever do this so it's
[42:09] really not that hard to stand out and be
[42:12] extra ordinary because ordinary is so
[42:16] common meaning like I if I'm retail
[42:20] shopping chances are I walk in and this
[42:24] girl's got she's like smacking her gum
[42:26] and like twisting it in her bonqueque
[42:29] nails looking at her phone like you need
[42:32] anything even if she acknowledges me you
[42:35] know this is not even a real situation
[42:37] although Ma I'm I try to make it the
[42:39] story funny but I mean it's true like
[42:41] I'm just like but go in the customer
[42:43] service person doesn't even acknowledge
[42:44] you or they give you a half-hearted
[42:47] thank you or or you know welcome or you
[42:49] go into a restaurant it's not clean you
[42:51] go in service is bad and you kind of
[42:53] tolerate it you're just like that's kind
[42:54] of just what it is you're like I'm
[42:56] probably not going to be acknowledged
[42:59] appreciated thanked walk around the
[43:02] counter shake my hand you know as you
[43:06] leave that's rare you know so anyways it
[43:09] to me it's kind of like can you go go a
[43:11] little bit deeper on that being nice
[43:13] being
[43:14] professional it goes a long way because
[43:16] also people are on the other side of
[43:18] these
[43:19] Brands 100% man and like you said the
[43:22] bar is super low and you know what I do
[43:24] not anyone listening or watching I don't
[43:25] fault you for this you want to know why
[43:27] why because a lot of us especially if
[43:29] you have been privileged to you know
[43:31] start deriving an income from this maybe
[43:34] you've never had a quote unquote real
[43:37] job maybe you came out of school and you
[43:39] were fortunate enough to you know start
[43:41] making money from your from your you
[43:43] know Social Media stuff um you never
[43:46] understood what it was like in a
[43:47] corporate environment and what's
[43:49] expected and um those kind of things you
[43:52] might learn uh at at a normal 9 to5 UM
[43:55] you're kind of learning this on the Fly
[43:57] so I totally commiserate with you and
[43:59] understand um but that's why it's so
[44:01] important to educate yourself around
[44:02] what it actually takes to be
[44:03] professional um and I I actually think
[44:06] this is a blessing I think I hope this
[44:07] is an exciting prospect for people
[44:10] because it means that you know it's not
[44:13] just about the numbers it's not just
[44:14] about the views it's not just about the
[44:15] subscribers it's also about uh your
[44:18] level of customer service when you
[44:19] collaborate with these Brands and it
[44:20] goes long way I love this well before we
[44:24] go into a few more strategic questions
[44:25] it's some of the best stuff actually I
[44:27] think that we're about to hit I do
[44:29] you've got a new book sponsor magnet it
[44:32] also is on pre-order or maybe it's out
[44:34] by the time you see this episode and if
[44:38] you um go to the
[44:41] website and we'll make sure that's in
[44:43] the the show notes people can get some
[44:45] other cool stuff like 15 negotiation
[44:48] scripts which is priceless and you've
[44:51] got uh a bunch of other cool things give
[44:54] us just a quick overview of the book
[44:55] before we get to a few final questions
[44:57] Yeah man so uh you know I briefly
[44:59] mentioned this but you know my wife and
[45:01] I have been creators for over 15 years
[45:03] started our first YouTube channel in
[45:04] 2019 so we've done hundreds and hundreds
[45:07] of deals oursel but also I ran this
[45:08] Agency for many years um and that I
[45:11] think has afforded me a pretty unique
[45:13] perspective to kind of behind the scenes
[45:15] of what's actually happening at these
[45:16] Brands um and what they're saying behind
[45:19] closed doors about creators and why
[45:20] they're passing on you and hiring other
[45:23] people instead and so I've really kind
[45:24] of distilled the last basically 15 years
[45:27] of experience into this book um and I
[45:29] just I don't I think it's the first book
[45:31] of its kind I don't I I think that some
[45:33] uh it's there's been a hunger for this
[45:35] type of knowledge um and I'm very very
[45:39] excited about finally getting it out
[45:41] into the universe because um I really do
[45:43] feel it's going to impact a lot of
[45:44] people's lives and businesses quite
[45:46] profoundly and so um yeah it's
[45:48] everything that I know I basically talk
[45:49] about my eight-step sponsorship wheel
[45:52] methodology uh which is uh basically
[45:55] walking you through the pitch the
[45:57] negotiation contracts the concept uh the
[46:00] feedback the or the production the
[46:02] feedback the publication and the
[46:04] analysis so those are the eight steps um
[46:07] and how important it is to actually have
[46:09] a system uh to turn sponsorships into a
[46:11] predictable income so um I think it's
[46:13] going to be uh a pretty exciting thing
[46:16] for a lot of people we don't rise to the
[46:17] level of our goals we fall to the level
[46:19] of our systems systems are the secret
[46:21] and it's one thing to do one a oneoff
[46:24] deal and get lucky it's a whole another
[46:25] thing to turn this into a systematic
[46:27] business and the creators who truly last
[46:31] even get liftoff let alone last are
[46:33] going to lean into systems that's a
[46:35] Priceless investment books are one of
[46:36] the best investment you could ever get
[46:38] I'm not trying to I don't even have an
[46:39] affiliate link or anything I just want
[46:40] to encourage people to pick up the book
[46:42] if you use the link in the description
[46:43] it's best on your website right it's
[46:45] going to be on Amazon eventually or it
[46:46] is yep it's going to be everywhere at
[46:48] launch but uh yeah sponsor magnet.com is
[46:50] the best place amazing so yeah you can
[46:52] check that out in in uh and if you are a
[46:54] serious Creator it's a no-brainer to
[46:55] invest in resources like this obviously
[46:58] one couple hundred brand deal $100 brand
[47:01] deal would pay for the investment and uh
[47:03] no matter what size of Channel you are
[47:05] thinking about the wisdom you could get
[47:07] there now there's one other framework we
[47:10] did touch on it earlier speaking about
[47:12] like used's rights but it's the uh due
[47:15] rule briefly hit this yeah so real
[47:19] quickly I call it the do rule it's
[47:21] deliverables usage rights and
[47:23] exclusivity so the deliverables one is
[47:25] easy is like when you're Nea with the
[47:27] brand and they say oh we'd love to
[47:28] collaborate a couple of posts like it
[47:30] would be awesome no you need to know
[47:32] exactly what you need to do is it going
[47:34] to be an integrated video is it going to
[47:35] be a dedicated video how many videos is
[47:37] it going to be do you have to do
[47:38] community posts are they going to be
[47:39] asking for that uh you have to scope the
[47:41] deal properly so you know what level of
[47:43] work is actually going to be required of
[47:45] you uh the usage rights we talked about
[47:46] so that's the U in terms of
[47:48] understanding whether it's just organic
[47:49] usage rights meaning that they can
[47:51] reshare it on their platforms um or do
[47:54] they want to run paid advertising to it
[47:56] which is which is you should be
[47:57] compensated for that right uh and then
[47:59] this last one we actually didn't talk
[48:00] about much which was exclusivity uh is
[48:03] hey are they saying that you cannot uh
[48:05] work with any of our competitors for a
[48:06] certain duration um because this has a
[48:09] real this is like a real meaningful uh
[48:11] like you know dollar and cense impact to
[48:13] your wallet uh if you don't uh consider
[48:16] this I could share a quick story a
[48:18] creator that I I've coached um agreed to
[48:21] five years of exclusivity for a free
[48:25] mattress they weren't even paid they
[48:28] didn't even get paid they just got a
[48:29] free mattress and didn't realize that
[48:32] that was the deal that they had signed
[48:33] and so like a year or two after that
[48:35] they were about to you know sign a deal
[48:37] with another you know Casper or whatever
[48:39] another mattress company um and realized
[48:42] looking at Contract yeah realiz and they
[48:45] were just like oh my God so this has
[48:47] like a material impact on your life and
[48:49] your business and so this stuff matters
[48:51] like you really need to understand
[48:52] before you enter the into these
[48:54] agreements um and ensure you're
[48:56] protected
[48:57] well you know it's funny too because
[48:58] five years also could have been fine if
[49:01] it was like a million dollars you know
[49:02] what I mean you know or even six figures
[49:04] depending on if this channel is small
[49:05] you go okay you just calculate it out
[49:07] like you know um but definitely like
[49:10] reading the fine print even on a free
[49:13] product which un must means they sign a
[49:15] contract for the free
[49:17] product read your contracts now this is
[49:19] something I've been learning of course
[49:21] AI is not legal advice but
[49:25] AI is really changing the game when it
[49:28] comes to lawyers and I I hope this
[49:30] encourages people like you know one we
[49:34] now consistently are hiring lawyers at
[49:37] think media at the size of company we
[49:39] are whether that's on the employee side
[49:41] or contract side uh in brand deals
[49:44] because it's worth reviewing especially
[49:46] if the brand deal is large and most you
[49:48] know lawyers could cost 300 bucks an
[49:50] hour or 500 bucks an hour or $1,000 an
[49:53] hour and if it takes them an hour to
[49:55] reveal your contract you're listening to
[49:56] this you're like that I just not even
[49:57] I'm not even in that ball game what's so
[49:59] crazy and I saw a big Twitter threat
[50:01] about this is the legal advice from AI
[50:06] is oftentimes Superior than actually a
[50:08] conversation with an attorney and one
[50:10] person joked and said uh I want to offer
[50:14] to hire an
[50:15] attorney contingent on me first getting
[50:19] advice from AI putting it in a sealed
[50:21] envelope listening to what they have to
[50:22] say and if it's not Superior to what's
[50:24] in the sealed envelope then I get my
[50:26] money back right don't pay
[50:27] them and uh you know kind of a funny
[50:30] thought exercise I don't know if the
[50:31] attorney would agree to that but what's
[50:33] cool like you also just might be able to
[50:35] save time Andor like and it's as simple
[50:38] as Pace contract in Ai and say what are
[50:41] the red
[50:42] flags and that could I just did one and
[50:46] it was and so I decided not to hire an
[50:48] attorney I wasn't that stressed about
[50:50] the whole thing but it gave me like six
[50:53] things to consider and also cuz I'm an
[50:55] impatient person number one if I read it
[50:57] I'm going to start going dyslexic and
[50:59] start like getting like oh I don't even
[51:01] know and I don't care but man if I've
[51:03] learned you need to know and care you're
[51:05] saying it you don't want to give five
[51:06] years of you know and so AI could just
[51:08] prompt you and say do you really want to
[51:10] give five years of exclusive rights you
[51:12] might be like and then you can ask
[51:14] questions what does that mean what does
[51:16] exclusive mean and so uh it's you know a
[51:20] new year I think leaning into that as as
[51:23] you start looking at any contracts it's
[51:24] it takes well this living in an where
[51:26] the old Shawn was probably just going to
[51:28] be taken advantage of the new Shawn at
[51:32] least is actually running everything
[51:34] through Ai and um and then to that point
[51:37] like not to go crazy deep on this but
[51:39] sometimes States and different places
[51:41] like it might say like well this is
[51:42] they're from Texas and the laws in
[51:45] Washington or and that's kind of why
[51:47] like you could get such a broader
[51:48] perspective because we're dealing with a
[51:50] large language model that can be
[51:52] actually pretty updated now then again
[51:53] of course the disclaimer is it's not
[51:56] actually legal advice and you AI can
[51:59] hallucinate and it might not be accurate
[52:02] but at least you you could avoid some
[52:04] things and creators
[52:06] are known to get it taken advantage of
[52:10] just kind of like musicians that get
[52:12] taken advantage of by record labels
[52:14] because we are creative we we want to
[52:17] just focus on the video and do the art
[52:18] and the reading and analyzing a contract
[52:21] is the most stressful and like and and
[52:24] so unfortunately
[52:26] whether intentional or not Brands take
[52:28] advantage of that you know or they just
[52:30] they have their standard thing that'd be
[52:32] another thing and you can affirm or
[52:34] challenge anything I'm saying here I
[52:37] think I had I had a lot of fear about
[52:39] pushing back and but I've realized even
[52:42] with some of our growth video speakers
[52:43] some of our whatever the initial
[52:46] contract that'll come from a brand
[52:48] that'll come from a person that'll come
[52:50] from a business a lot of times it
[52:52] doesn't even mean they're malicious it's
[52:53] just going to be written so heavily in
[52:55] their favor they just I might as well
[52:57] get all of this stuff so they just throw
[52:59] it in there and so then we review it and
[53:03] it's like this is kind of crazy like
[53:05] this and then we push back and they're
[53:07] like yeah no yeah no problem we we'll
[53:08] red line that out yeah we'll fix it no
[53:10] big deal um and so it's just like cuz it
[53:14] doesn't even mean that they would do
[53:16] everything that they said in there it's
[53:17] just their standard contract which is
[53:19] probably crazily weighted towards them
[53:23] and so slow down take a beat take a
[53:25] breath and realize that small creators
[53:29] now kind of have a new advantage that
[53:30] didn't want to exist doesn't you don't
[53:32] need a big budget to start being a lot
[53:34] smarter when it comes to some of these
[53:36] professional areas of brand deals 100%
[53:40] dude I mean I totally agree if possible
[53:43] always should try to you know hire uh
[53:45] legal uh you know uh professional to
[53:48] review your contracts but AI can do a
[53:50] great job at like you said pulling out
[53:52] just the plain English of like hey what
[53:55] should I care about what are the red
[53:56] flags in fact you could take some of the
[53:58] red flags I talk about in the contract
[53:59] section of the book and just put it in
[54:01] there and say hey remember this every
[54:03] time I send you a contract measure it up
[54:05] against these like 12 things that I I
[54:08] need to care about as a Creator and tell
[54:10] me if any there's any red flags here
[54:12] yeah that's genius well this has been a
[54:13] powerful episode I'm excited to have you
[54:15] back later this year as we always get an
[54:17] update as it pertains to Brands and
[54:19] brand
[54:20] sponsorships um you already kind of
[54:22] shouted it out but lastly if people want
[54:23] to follow you get your resources the
[54:25] book uh where can they follow yeah
[54:26] sponsor magnet.com uh that's the best
[54:29] place uh I appreciate you know each and
[54:31] every one of you who help spread the
[54:33] word about the book honestly I I feel as
[54:34] though uh I have a duty to kind of
[54:36] educate the next generation of creators
[54:38] and I just there's no way I'm going to
[54:39] be able to do it without Word of Mouth
[54:41] and so I think I did the hard part which
[54:43] was write a damn good book um and so now
[54:45] I'm now it's the the the fun part which
[54:47] is uh telling the world about it well
[54:49] that's uh amazing and thick media
[54:51] podcast like rate review share the
[54:54] podcast wherever you watch or listen
[54:56] and my name is Sean Kel you're guide to
[54:59] building a profitable YouTube channel
[55:01] and we'll catch you in a future episode