---
title: 'How Small Creators Land Big Brand Deals (Complete Sponsorship Guide)'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=5E1K2iQOmXw'
video_id: '5E1K2iQOmXw'
date: 2026-06-15
duration_sec: 0
---

# How Small Creators Land Big Brand Deals (Complete Sponsorship Guide)

> Source: [How Small Creators Land Big Brand Deals (Complete Sponsorship Guide)](https://youtube.com/watch?v=5E1K2iQOmXw)

## Summary

Justin Moore, a sponsorship coach and founder of Creator Wizard, shares strategies for small creators to land big brand deals. He debunks the misconception that you need a large audience, emphasizing professionalism, niche targeting, and understanding brand goals. The video covers frameworks like ARC (Awareness, Repurposing, Conversion) and ROPE (Relevant, Organic, Proof, Easy to execute), along with pricing, usage rights, and negotiation tips.

### Key Points

- **Biggest Misconception** [01:59] — The biggest misconception is that you need a certain number of subscribers to get deals. The real product is professionalism, not views or reach.
- **Niche Advantage** [03:38] — The more niche you are, the more opportunities exist because brands have limited places to spend marketing money. Example: Dr. Alex, a veterinary pathologist, gets deals because her audience includes doctors and lab techs.
- **Pricing Strategy Example** [05:17] — Paul Jameson, host of The Green Industry Podcast, landed a six-figure deal with John Deere by doing a live podcast at a trade show, not just a typical integration.
- **Post-Campaign Report** [08:36] — After a first deal, send a post-campaign report with quantitative and qualitative insights to build recurring relationships. This sets you apart from other creators.
- **ARC Framework** [15:25] — Brands have three goals: Awareness (new campaigns), Repurposing (content for their platforms), and Conversion (sales/leads). Ask what success looks like to tailor your pitch and pricing.
- **Usage Rights Pricing** [16:59] — Charge 15% of base deal size per 30 days for licensing content, and 25% for allowlisting (running ads on your content). Cap usage duration to avoid perpetuity.
- **ROPE Pitching Method** [25:34] — ROPE: Relevant to a brand's campaign, Organic content showing audience affinity, Proof of past results, and Easy to execute with a clear proposal. Use a specific subject line referencing a past campaign.
- **Professionalism Over Numbers** [33:34] — Being nice, polite, and professional—turning things in on time—often wins over bigger creators. Brands want to work with reliable humans.
- **DUE Rule** [47:21] — DUE: Deliverables (scope exactly), Usage rights (organic vs. paid), and Exclusivity (avoid long-term exclusivity without compensation). Example: a creator signed 5-year exclusivity for a free mattress.

### Conclusion

Small creators can land big brand deals by focusing on professionalism, niche expertise, and understanding brand goals. Use frameworks like ARC and ROPE to pitch effectively, and always negotiate usage rights and exclusivity to protect your value.

## Transcript

we're going to be breaking down how
small creators can land Big Brand deals
and creators of any size it's so so
important when you are first engaging
with the brand to ask them this question
and I'm curious you've generated over $5
million in brand Partnerships what's the
number one misconception costing
creators money right
now your pitch has to be relevant to a
campaign that the brand is either
currently running or has run in the past
you can tie your pitch back to organic
content that you've already posted that
illustrates that your audience has an
affinity for their brand or their
product in my experience actually the
more Niche you are the more
opportunities there are these Brands
these potential sponsors don't have a
lot of places to to spend this cash like
nobody else is doing that like this is
why people should subscribe to the th
media
podcast if you want to tap into some of
the best Frameworks that will help you
negotiate help you raise your rates help
you get started if you have a smaller or
new channel or if you are a larger
Creator help you earn more we're also
going to be talking about the
counterintuitive pricing strategy that
landed a six-figure brand deal a single
email template that landed deals with
Fortune 500 Brands and how small
creators can get paid more than
influencers with bigger audiences so
stick around until the end for that
today's guest is Justin Moore who is a
sponsorship coach and the founder of cre
Creator wizard he's also the author of
the brand new book sponsor magnet and he
is a loved guest of the think media
podcast and he's back for today's
episode Justin welcome to the show dude
beloved guests that's a title I I I'm
going to claim that title I love that
one glad to be back Sean what's going on
man well let's go Z to 100 real quick
and I'm curious you've generated over $5
million in brand Partnerships what's the
number one misconception costing
creators money right now I think the
biggest thing is thinking that the only
way in which you can get deals is if you
have a certain number of YouTube
subscribers or a certain size of your
audience if you know my wife and I
started our first YouTube channel in
2009 you know as you mentioned we've
done millions of dollars worth of deals
five over 550 deals actually um and if
you looked at our quote unquote
influence today it's basically the
lowest that's ever been in the last 15
years candidly if you looked at our
viewership and numbers and all that but
we're making the most amount of money
that we've ever made each year since
then because we know what product we're
selling to these Brands the product is
not views the product is not reach the
product is professionalism they know
when they reach out to April and Justin
they know what they're going to get
we're going to hit every deadline we're
going to hit every talking point with a
plom if they come back to us with some
feedback hey can you revise this you
know little 20 seconds here do a new
voiceover we say sure I got you no
problem and so of all of the deals that
we do a huge percentage of them are
these recurring relationships that we've
developed with Brands and agencies over
many years and so if there's one big
takeaway that you take from this
conversation it's that it's that there's
all these other intangible assets that
you can hone and develop as a creator
that can help you make more money on
deals man that's inspiring and that
means that there is an opportunity for
all of us before I as ask this next
question some creators are listening and
i' would love for them to know about
this idea of nanom micro and like macro
influencers and what's possible for
channels that are smaller so uh let me
share answer that question with a a real
story from one of my coaching clients
her name is Dr Alex okay so she has a
business called digital pathology place
so she's a veterinarian a physician uh
and she talks all about this really kind
of very hyp specific topic of pathology
digital pathology and so she is not
getting tens of thousands hundreds of
thousands of views on her videos on her
podcasts episodes she's getting hundreds
or thousands but do you know who's in
her audience it's the doctors it's the
lab techs it's the people who work at
these medical device companies and she
is absolutely crushing it with brand
sponsorships because you know those
these companies who are manufacturing
the equipment that these people need
where do they Market it's really
difficult to find out places to deploy
their marketing capital and so um you
know when you think about kind of these
hyp specific creators Niche and you know
in these very specific industries that
may not seem like I don't know is there
any brands that would want to
collaborate with me in my experience
actually the more Niche you are the more
opportunities there are uh because these
Brands these potential sponsors don't
have a lot of places to to spend this
cash that's like one of the quotes of
the year the more Niche you are the more
opportunities there are it so speaks to
just being strategic there's a classic
marketing book called positioning like
really narrowing in on your position and
it's exciting because in the crater
economy again I think everyone's chasing
a lot of times when we start virality
and millions of views but you can make
big money with a small Channel and we're
going to continue to unpack those
strategies but can you actually walk us
through the specific pricing strategy
that helped Paul Jameson land his six
figure sponsorship okay I love it so
Paul Jameson is the host of a podcast
called the green industry podcast so
he's on YouTube he's on social media as
well um but what he does you're going to
love this Sean he teaches Lawn Care
Professionals how to grow their business
that's his business and he's doing 120
150,000 downloads a month on his podcast
right and he is locking in these huge
deals with the likes of Lowe's and John
Deere and a lot of these mower companies
equipment companies because again where
do they if they want to sell these
products where can they turn they can
advertise in the you know uh prehistoric
trade magazines they can try and run you
know targeted ads maybe on Facebook
that's kind of hard um but you know what
they would love to do is they'd love to
be able to align thems with the largest
voice in their industry who is speaking
to those professionals who are buying
that equipment and that person is Paul
one thing that I think a lot of people
uh when they think about a brand deal or
they think about a sponsorship they
think about oh I'm going to like talk
about this brand for 60 to 90 seconds on
my YouTube video like an integration
right you know the one of the most
recent deals that Paul Inked with John
Deere
they hired him to do a live podcasting
session in their booth at the largest
trade show in their industry it's called
equip it was back in October and they
basically he's the largest name and they
said hey we want you in our booth for
the entire three days so what he did he
had all of his friends come through and
record episodes he had all the people on
the marketing team record episodes from
John Deere um and so does that sound
like a typical sponsorship not really
right um and so I I I hope that this is
kind of stretching everyone's
imaginations of like what can actually
be possible if you develop an expertise
in a very specific thing now I'm also
curious that's pretty inspiring and it
speaks to just the evolution of the
Creator economy and things being so much
different than we may have think they
look we just think it's maybe like one
video one payment and that's what it is
when you also talk about six figure
sponsorships do you encourage people to
pursue longer term deals whatever
details you can share of that six figure
sponsorship of how it might have been
structured that could be different than
how we would assume yeah so of course
like I want to respect Paul's privacy
and so he you know I can't talk the
exact specifics of like what the deal
Dynamics are but rest assured like he's
he's doing all sorts of types of deals I
would say some that are recurring some
that are you know these one-off kind of
very large Chun let's like put Paul
aside like if there's types long short
that you know let's so let's let's
actually split hairs real quickly here
because the the occurring sponsorships
are the dream for anyone regardless of
what the Cadence is right just something
more than just like a one-off thing um
the the challenge with trying to pitch a
brand that you've never worked with on a
recurring deal is that they have been
burned a lot by creators in the past
where a creator has promised the world
to them and failed to deliver they
weren't professional they didn't turn
things in on time the work quality was
substandard uh and so they're very
nervous and before they have any sort of
experience working with you it's going
to be pretty hard to convince a sponsor
to sign on to a 12-month deal with you
and so by sincere advices in the
beginning just blow their absolute socks
off on this first deal uh and then
that's when you can Broach this topic of
like a a longer term engagement and so
once you do illustrate that you're
awesome and you had great results from
that first partnership um one of the
things I talk about is the importance of
putting together what's called a post
campaign report where you actually are
not just sending screenshots to them
when they're asking you're saying hey
not only am I going to share you the
quantitative performance of this
campaign but I'm going to share you some
qualitative insights that I had hey I
actually had people dming me or
responding to my email blast that I made
about this partnership and they said XYZ
I actually and and maybe it was a maybe
a neutral or a negative comment it
wasn't like oh I love the brand it was
like this brand sucks and here's the
reason why it sucks you know I and you
say hey I got like five comments like
that I actually think we should lean
into that in another integration
together where we lean into this
objection that people are having uh
about your product and allowing you to
say hey oh we actually reformulated the
product six months ago like maybe people
don't know that let's talk about that in
the next version and so a lot of it
comes down to actually cycling feedback
from your audience back to the brand so
you can have some insights what's what
to Target for uh some additional
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recurring sponsorships are the dream but
chances are going you know from not
knowing the brand or working with them
to a reoccurring you don't even know if
you want to do it necessarily so that's
probably not step one and in a New Year
being aware that brands have been burned
so also be thinking about okay one of
the goals maybe is to Let's lock in
something that can essentially be a
chance to date each other before we get
married for a year and or 6 months and
blow their socks off do a post campaign
report and then keep the conversation
going am I hearing you correctly 100%
100% because again especially when you
give them that post campaign report that
no other Creator is doing they're going
to say wow this person is actually
invested in the outcome of what we're
trying to accomplish as a brand they're
not just in it for the money they also
dude you know you know why people don't
do this Sean you know why people don't
uh come back to the brand with this type
of data is they are terrified of asking
the brand hey how did it go because
they're worried that the brand said hey
thanks for asking it was awful you suck
we hate you never talk to us again
that's what they're were I get it that's
what you know oh you didn't drive any
sales like don't you know how dare you
we want our money back this type of
thing in all reality a brand will almost
never say that to you um first of all if
they say hey it went awesome now is your
ticket to say okay great let's do
another let's do another campaign
together right um but if they say well
it just went okay um you know we were
hoping it drove more views or more sales
or whatever that's your chance to lean
into it right um you know the uh Nelson
Mandela has this famous quote he said
you know I never lose I either win or
learn and this is the mindset that you
need to take into asking these questions
to these Brands um that you're never
going to lose you're all you're going to
learn something and maybe maybe it'll
actually lead to you improving the way
in which you actually fulfill these
sponsorships Brands I'm curious your
take on this
some of the things they still do often
is they do things like trade shows and
they sponsor events and they set up a
booth and sometimes because this has
happened for us a lot and sometimes like
I'm I'm surprised by their expectations
you know if we do a physical event they
might be willing to pay 5 10 15 20 25
$30,000 and they fly their team out and
they pay for their team's meals and they
pay for their teams hotels and they do
all their stuff I'm like this is a
pretty big investment and they'll
sometimes do this for an event that is
500 people or less 300 people or less
and I I am invested in Brands what
winning winning looks like for them as
I've grown in my career and I found that
sometimes like their expectations just
trying to affirm what you're saying are
like lower than I would think it's
sometimes like I don't like directly
they're probably not going to make 40
Grand necessarily like maybe they're
looking at LTV they're looking at Brand
awareness but sometimes it's like what
are they also in it for they want like
photos at the booth they want the
association with your brand the longtime
term awareness they have a marketing
budget to spend an event budget to spend
so I guess I'm just trying to say that
like if they said it went okay you could
tell me maybe deeper insights on this
like Roi of sales of course is the thing
we're solving for but but then your
ability to lean deeper they still might
be kind of happy because they got some
assets they can use those assets for
like a year later and you could leverage
off of that to like not be overly
stressed I mean because again they can
self-define whether they like to work
with you or not but lean into it I just
am affirming like if you lean into it
it's like well let's keep working and
like what else could we do for you or
what else would make it and and the
definition of their win could be broader
than like how many views the video got
um or what their win could look like
next time if you stay creative any
thoughts on that observation dude not
only is that observation so sound but
I've actually codified this which is
into something that I call the arc
framework so there's three goals that
every brand will have when they want to
collaborate with you Arc that first is
awareness where they are you know have a
new campaign uh for a new product that
they're launching maybe they were only
available in the UK now they're coming
to the US or maybe they're running a
seasonal promotion that is an awareness
focused campaign the r in Arc is
repurposing so what you just mentioned
may be a big goal of theirs is you know
what we don't have a lot of great
content that we can post on our
platforms on our social media or run for
paid advertising man we would love to
get uh you know photos videos from
growth video live and and be able to
repurpose that and show our brand as
advocates of the community that's huge
for us we would love that uh and then
the C in Arc is conversion so it's that
last thing you said about yeah we want
to drive sales we want to drive leads we
want to drive trial signups to our
software um and so it's so so important
when you were first engaging with a
brand to ask them this question what
would success look like to you what is
your your goal because what you pitch
actually actually has to change based on
that not only what your pitch has to
change but what you charge has to change
man that's great um I I want to lean
into the repurposing one right now just
to kind of go a little bit
deeper how should we think about
charging and protecting ourselves I
think it's one of the last things
creators think about is usage rights and
perpetuity usage rights
so if we're an early Creator sometimes
we might
think um man the Brand's going to give
us 100 bucks 500 bucks $1,000 in free
product and it's really cool and that's
happening all over the Creator economy
for all kinds of small
channels
and in that we are happy with the deal
because you know we're agreeing to it
it's a nice upstart but in the contract
it
says we can use your likeness in this
content in perpetuity for
10 Generations you know what I mean like
forever literally a thousand years from
now we're going to still be able to use
this now what's also interesting is
there's even some public celebrities
that have like they their rights were
you know given away when they were doing
advertising 10 years ago than their
famous movie star now and they're and
that company's still leveraging it and
and sometimes they can't even do
anything about it so it's kind culu simu
do you remember the stock photos that
Sim mulu did before he was a celebrity
and they own the right to that forever
now he's a famous movie star isn't he in
one of the Marvel movies yeah yeah he
was yeah exactly so simu is in one of
the Marvel movies super famous now but
yet that original stock photos he did he
signed away writes I think I want
listeners to see you never know who
you're going to become uh you never know
and and regardless it's your likeness
anyways but like you never know how big
you'll become you'll never know what
your your your usage and rights would be
like and then if anything I think
there's also something about like I
think it'd be very reasonable to give
somebody a year two even three cuz in
some cases what we're talking about is
you don't know how long your career is
going to be so you don't know that like
you're you're probably not going to be a
in Marvel movies in one or two years but
you might be in 5 to 10 like the places
you could be and so even if a Brand's
like we for sure need to use this you're
like well 24 months might be a great cap
so it's literally not perpetuity is so
insane perpet me literally forever is
crazy so thoughts on this how you would
price different things that you would
look for in contracts you know just red
flags so you maybe or or just things
like easy like I get you want to use
this you want to run ads on it that's
part of why you're paying me even for
maybe ugc too like even if you're just
going to use me on your website but do
you think capping it at one two years
Andor asking for just a higher price and
a lot of creators listening to this are
afraid to make these push backs because
it's like man I don't want to mess up
the deal right right so 100% you should
be capping the duration of the usage
rights for sure because not only as you
said could things change a lot uh in you
know a relatively short time frame uh
but in reality the likelihood that a
brand is really going to use this asset
of yours forever is super low so being
able to educate them they they may just
saying well this is standard we get per
Perpetual usage rights for everyone they
they try to pull this card on you and
you say okay well I understand that I
respect that um you know in all
likelihood this is a seasonal campaign
that I'm going to be talking about doing
this ugc for you the likelihood of you
know you needing this in five years is
going to be very unlikely so you know
capping it at a year is probably you're
going to get a lot of utility out of
this for the next year uh and so that
should be that should be sufficient I do
have actually though a a a rule thumb
formula that I talk about in my book
sponsor magnet um for pricing these
types of things um and so when it comes
down to licensing so if the brand is
asking to take your content and use it
on their platforms on their website on
their social media on an e-commerce
Partners site or whatever um I I advise
charging
15% of the base deal size per 30day
period so if they're if they're paying
you $10,000 let's say for the content
creation as part of this project um then
you're going to be charging an
incremental
$1,500 per 30 days um so that's for
licensing however if they want to uh
actually leverage the content that you
natively post on your platform and
amplify it or boost it sometimes called
allow listing um this is where you're
actually allowing them to basically to
get into the back end of your Facebook
or Instagram or you're giving them like
a spark code it's called on Tik Tok um
to run ads basically with the content
you posted
that's more like 25% of the base deal
size so that would be an incremental
$2,500 in that example a month and so
what you'll quickly see actually is that
let's say that they wanted rights for
six months you actually might make more
money in usage rights than you do in
generating the content itself and this
is maybe shocking to some people who
hear this but this is fairly standard uh
in advertising brands are used to paying
for a fixed fee for the actual
generation of the content but they have
to pay the platforms Facebook Instagram
YouTube Etc to continue running this ad
you know what's interesting is that I um
right now we have a a brand that is
running ads on an organic YouTube
video but you're kind of Shifting my
thinking because I was like well we
actually make a little bit of AD Revenue
off of that and it's actually still to
our affiliate
links maybe let me tell me tell me if
you would in my case if it'd be
different I was like sounds like win-win
like you're going to drive views on that
video up I will get 50% of those dollars
in the YouTube Partner program ad
revenue and YouTube will get the other
50% they're just probably organic
they're clearly organically wanting to
push awareness of their product harder
than the than the organic reach of my
video um and then as a result though the
call to action in the videoos to the
description so it it is I attribution
for affiliate sales is sometimes tough
for me uh generally but nevertheless I
guarantee it'll drive we already know we
can attribute some and will attribute
more because they're purely putting you
know more paid ads behind that video
it's fascinating to me though that you
would say that'd be an additional 25%
just to allow them to do that so based
on my logic would you still say that's
the same thing you absolutely should be
charging them for the privilege to run
ads to your organic content 100% And and
in fact this should not be an either or
this should be something you negotiate
into the deal and say hey in addition to
running ads on on this YouTube video
which is great awesome great for
everyone you should be running ads on
you you should you know be running ads
on your platforms with this content
here's the here's the file here's a 30-
second cutdown of it here go run ads on
Facebook and Instagram uh you know go
buck wild embeding this on your website
on e-commerce whatever because they you
never know what's going to perform the
best this this is the beauty SL curse of
advertising is that you never really
know where what's going to be the most
efficient ad spent what what cut of that
asset I could share a quick story here
uh when I ran an influencer marketing
agency for about seven years uh a very
large phone carrier hired our company to
uh hire a bunch of creators create some
content but the primary reason that they
wanted to run this campaign was to get
the assets to run for ads and so we got
I don't know something 10 to 15
different videos and assets from these
creators and there was this one video in
particular that was super high quality
it was like super polished professional
beautiful b-roll and I was sure I was
like man this video is going to crush as
an like this is so beautiful and then we
had a smattering of other types of uh
creators but then there was this one
video that was awful dude it looked like
it was shot on a potato it was like on a
Nokia like brick phone it was so low
quality it was super low res it just was
like terrible and guess which one
performed better as an
ad the baked potato the baked potato bro
you you never know like what is going to
perform best as an ad and so it's part
of this is like educating the brand of
it's important to like test different
things uh to see which performs the best
man that's uh very insightful and some
very practical tips in regards to
especially licensing it's like a lot of
people forget about that ask the brands
what they want use the arc formula
awareness repurposing and conversion
could be their goals getting clear on
their goals you've also helped creators
land deals with Major Brands can you
share the email template that's worked
best when working with Fortune 500
companies obviously it's going to be
verbal whether people watch the video
podcast or audio but kind of maybe what
what is that outline of that or what's
the power of this the subject line
things like that all right so uh I teach
a a pitching method called the Rope
method I talk about it in my book
sponsor magnet and basically it's r o p
so R stands for your pitch has to be
relevant to a campaign that the brand is
either currently running or has run in
the past o stands for organic meaning
that you can tie your pitch back to
organic content that you've already
posted that illustrates that your
audience has an affinity for their brand
or product P stands for proof so you can
illustrate how you've helped other
brands achieve results and E stands for
easy to execute when the brand says yeah
oh this is interesting what did you have
in mind and so the form that this takes
so actually should we do a real life
teaching example here this might
actually make it really tangible for
people give me a brand give me a brand
Sean that you said oh this is a dream
brand for think media I I would love to
collaborate one well we've done it
before but let's just say we want to
re-engage with Canon cameras Canon
in this year
and we've done some stuff over the past
but there's staff
changes um they're also they've got a us
but they're such a global company that
sometimes like and so sometimes too we
don't know what their priorities are or
what I think their priorities are as far
as new cameras or whatever so um that's
yeah that's kind of an update so
re-engaging with them in our case would
be fun okay all right so what I am doing
in the background while you were talking
about this is I pulled up Canon's
Instagram so I'm looking at Canon USA
okay actually you know what I'm gonna
share my screen here how about that is
that fun uh I'm gonna share my screen if
you're listening on audio this might be
one you would come you know visit the
YouTube channel check out the screen
share or just listen along and we'll
narrate assuming people are also hearing
Audio Only okay all right so uh we're
here on uh Canon USA's Instagram um and
what I'm doing so first of all if you're
a YouTuber listen to this and you're
thinking I'm not on Instagram I hate
Instagram I don't like social media look
Instagram is a research tool okay brands
are basically telling you what is
important to them they're posting about
the campaigns and the things that are
important to them so you know what I'm
going to do uh time of recording you
know we're we're recording this in
January of 2025 but you know what if we
want to pitch Canon we're not going to
pitch a New Year resolution you always
want to become a photographer get your
gear that's that's a campaign that was
fully 6 months ago Sean you know we want
to be pitching to Canon we want to be
pitching spring summer we want to know
what were they doing last spring or
summer because in all likelihood because
in all likelihood they're going to run
similar campaigns to that so what I'm
doing is I'm scrolling back scrolling
scrolling scrolling I'm looking okay
what were they talking about last year
right so of course they're talking about
all sorts of cameras uh that are that
are releasing okay what is this harmony
at work okay Harmony here we go Harmony
there's a URL here here Harmony for
every you I'm just going to open that
because I don't know what that is but
I'm curious I want to find out I'm
scrolling scrolling scrolling let's see
who's this guy Canon Explorer of light
so here's a hashtag that we could go
down a rabbit hole and see what that's
about um let's see here um fantasy
photography I'm also looking okay Canon
explor we are we are proud to welcome a
new class of storytellers to the Canon
Explorer of light program okay so this
was in May of 2024 so this looks like
they probably identified a group of I
don't know based on this video I'm
watching maybe six or seven people uh
who are in they're inducting and I don't
know some sort of incubator maybe
accelerator to like you know help them
level up their skills potentially um and
so you know what your pitch is to them
Sean uh wow I loved this Canon Explorer
of light program you did last may we
were I was curious are you going to be
running inducting another class of
storytellers into this program in 2025
what if we partnered together to help
recruit for the application process for
this next um group of people we have a
huge you know reach on our YouTube
channel on our newsletter of aspiring
filmmakers and storytellers why don't we
partner together to really blow this
thing up that's the pitch man it's so
genius because then it's also you've
um
ultimately shown you've done your
research they they can tell that you
care the answer could be as simple no
we're not going to do that again but and
and like but you you've built like
nobody else is doing that like this is
why people should subscribe to the th
media podcast because at this moment in
the show the kind of gems you get you
want to be doing what nobody else is
doing thinking how nobody else is
thinking and uh it's such a better foot
in the door it just people can tell you
prepared people can tell you did your
research and that's a gangster tip too
because to be thoughtful not even just
their Instagram it's too late if it's
the campaign that's happening now they
cooked that up a long time ago but to go
back to the the previous year season
it's genius dude so so I love what you
brought up which is like they may not be
into this they may not be doing that
program again uh but that's not the
point you gave them something tangible
that they could react to they could say
hey we love your initiative here um you
know so going back to the Rope uh the
the template right of what you say it's
like the r is the relevancy right it's
the subject line of this email is #
Canon of light in 2025 question mark
That's the subject line they're going to
open that email they're not going to
open 1 million plus subscriber YouTube
channel collaboration question mark
right where it's like oh I have this
many followers of this many subscribers
delete ghost they don't know who you are
they don't care what's in it for them
right the first line is what we just
talked about it's about this program and
then the O the organic part of this
pitch is you're going to link to some
sort of uh similar contest giveaway
recruitment thing that you guys have
done in the past to try to recruit
people and by the way if you haven't
done something like that in the past
Sean people listening might be like well
I've never done something like that
before that's relevant to this campaign
you make a post about it proactively
before you pitch them so it may not be
super relevant in this scenario but like
you could imagine if you're pitching uh
a food brand or something and they were
talking about a uh you know the
Mediterranean diet or something you go
back and you make a post about the
Mediterranean diet month you get a bunch
of amazing feedback engagement from your
audience that's awesome and so you see
this so it requires a bit of
intentionality for your own content
strategy knowing that yes it's going to
serve my audience of course but it's
also going to double as fodder when I
pitch this brand because it's relevant
to something that they care about as
well so that's o p is proof so this is
you saying hey happy to share some
insights of how I've helped Sony you
know achieve results XYZ in this other
campaign and then the E easy to execute
this is really important it's you're
telling them exactly what you're going
to do for them you say hey for this
Canon explor of light thing
we could do three integrated YouTube
videos we can do two dedicated email
blasts trying to recruit people to apply
for your you know this new program uh we
can turn this around within 10 days uh
are you free on Thursday at 10 a.m. to
talk about this so you're you're telling
them exactly what you would do it's so
much such a good template like and so
much more detailed than like hey do
y'all work with creators yeah and I know
too man it's like I put like people
reach out to us at think media like even
maybe they want to hey I would love to
work for you for free you know for a
while or like learn something not
realizing that like number one I don't
want to sound entitled here but like
that's actually more of a burden than it
would be a blessing because I don't know
what you would do I have to think about
that I have to take the energy to to to
on board you as a the the reverse could
be
hey I will edit vertical videos for you
for free all I need is like a Dropbox of
raw footage or if you're cool if I do on
the YouTube channel would you consider
reviewing them and and even better here
they are and then it's like maybe like
sweet that would you know it's like
doing the heavy lift and so the fact
that relevant to a campaign you look
that up from their Instagram or social
media or website you look it up a
previous year the audience has an
affinity to me that's sequencing you
said it takes more preparation but this
just shows you man how bad do you want
it think media podcast are you willing
if it's like okay I would love to work
with barbecue Brands and I'm I could do
electri gills grills gas grills pellet
stoves like grills so I already have a
grill and I don't have a video yet so
I'm going to make one do it awesome even
link to it as an affiliate to any brand
the brand that you have which could then
show proof and maybe you don't need that
much proof like Amazon will show you if
you make a great YouTube video rank it
get some views on it get it popping in
the algorithm generate 5 10 15 20 sales
over 30 to 60 days screenshot shot your
Amazon one of the reasons we actually
got a brand deal that was from a super
large brand was almost like I don't know
why they said yes mean meanly like they
here's the key they did not care about
performance we just showed them how many
how results we'd already gotten in
Affiliates and they I I mean I don't
know what they were thinking obviously
performance still was part of it but it
was like they were like oh you've like
already like it was like so like they
owed us they were like you've already
stole plenty of cameras for us like we
will just do a deal with you like and so
but that was because of doing affiliate
marketing first so I love this idea it's
kind of like have the proof is also kind
of like having a portfolio like organic
content your your audience already loves
the grill content or the skin care or
whatever it is but doing the heavy
lifting on the easy to execute like this
is a great video so if I was to think
about Canon I went to their website and
I'm thinking about like the cameras I
already love which may not be what they
want to promote that's what I've learned
is that sometimes they're thinking
entirely different than like what I want
to promote however because I do know our
audience so like the e50 or the r10
there's a couple Creator kits on those
and like the
r10 is just 200 bucks off on their
website and it's all in one box for
creators with the microphone and
whatever else and it's also got 42
reviews I'm just looking at you know so
I'm like that man that's a good fit for
think media now they may and say or
something else but it would still show
we've done the heavy lift like this is
the exact video that that would be
inspired we think it' do like this video
over here um and it also might tie into
this summer campaign you did last year
cuz people are thinking about traveling
vlogging during the summer whatever else
cool and so you just on the heavy lift
plus we could email plus we could post
on social uh and and then would you also
put price and would you say or would you
say meet like if you want to discuss
this let's meet absolutely you got to
you got to get them on a phone call
because again uh what what you propose
is likely in all in all likelihood not
going to be what they want to move
forward with they're not going to be
like okay where do I sign it's going to
be more like a conversation like hey I I
love these pieces of the of the idea but
we want this a little bit differently
over here and so it has to turn into a
conversation um because you can't price
yourself in a vacuum you have to know
again what their goals are what are
their objectives are um that this is
part of probably a whole other
conversation about pricing um but but
real quickly I wanted to uh book in this
topic around the pitch um and and help
help everyone listening and watching
understand that it's not just this this
doesn't just work for social media this
doesn't just work for you know
collaborating on you know YouTube and
Instagram and podcast and stuff like
that this is a universal pitching
framework that works regardless of where
your influence is heck I am you know
launching my very first in-person event
in March in San Antonio and I am
currently pitching Brands to sponsor the
event right so you know events are like
a you're getting sponsors to events is
like a big way in which conference
organizers and event or organizers are
able to make uh those things profitable
or at least not lose a bunch of money um
and so you have to apply the same
principle to your pitches when it comes
to events a lot of people think like oh
here's the gold you know silver you know
Platinum package for you know pick one
to sponsor our event no it's all about
how do you convince the sponsor that
you're going to help them accomplish
their business objectives by showing up
and sponsoring your event so you lead
with hey I I it seems like this thing is
really important to you in q1 or Q2
here's how we can integrate that into
the event so that you can the needle on
that like kpi or that key performance
indicator that you have for a company so
this is a a universal uh piece of advice
regardless of like where you've built
your influence man it's powerful advice
now I do want to touch on I think
another framework that we could go a
little deeper on the do rule in a second
you've already shared the arc framework
and the Rope method with us um and then
a few other questions towards the end of
the episode but I want to ask you've
helped smaller creators outperform big
accounts
what do you think what is like the key
strategy for commanding higher rates
with a small audience dude just be nice
be polite be professional turn stuff in
on time bro you know how many times when
I when I ran the agency you know how
many times we hired a creator that is
twice as expensive and and smaller
because we' worked with them in the past
and we knew that they were professional
and good and not a diva or dvo and
anytime we came back to them with a
small little you know edit request oh
yeah no problem I got you um you know
how many times we hired those people
over the bigger footprint Creator a huge
amount of times huge amount of times and
so again uh I know that this feels like
maybe TR advice but it's true this is
this is real there's human beings on the
other end of these Brands I think
sometimes we look at them as these
amorphous entities oh it's a brand
they're they're huge and and you know
you know they're so professional and all
this but it's like it's a person and
they want to enjoy their day-to-day life
and so they want to work with also
people and so if you can treat them like
humans that goes so far dude really does
yeah that's so powerful and man this
whole professional I think that it's
it's tough in the crater economy but I
think about this in any business I got a
friend running a roofing company and he
uh I mean it's the eight figureure
roofing company scaled it up over the
years and he he came from the background
of almost being like
broke on drugs struggling family issues
and now like has built up and I I think
his commitment in life has been like
it's kind of been like Excellence it's
like turning pro and he's like his
approach towards then his health his
approached towards his business he's
starting to create content now but one
of the things he told me was he was like
um our sales reps and stuff we show up
with the polo on and the logo the iPad
and a presentation that runs them
through what they're going to get text
message followup and phone calls when
the consultant or the person who's going
to coach him on the roof is on the way M
hey scheduling your call for tomorrow
awesome we're 15 minutes out hey like
and he's leveraging technology to do it
so he's also and he's like no other
roofing companies and and and competitor
roofing companies are they may be doing
1 two three million a year Topline
Revenue but they're struggling they're
they're kind of like they're sort of
stuck and one of the reason they're
stuck is be is just because of a lack of
strong brand strong professionalism
because it's kind of ma and PAW I
encourage listeners it's kind of a
different mindset like why can't you be
thinking big in small places don't let
your small YouTube channel make you
small-minded what would it look like to
turn your professionalism up your brand
your dress how you're showing up on
calls how you're showing up and maybe it
is it's your your logo your
professionalism listen we're all about
punch fear in the face press record
start with what you have get 1% better
with every upload but the pursuit of
mastering the pursuit of Excellence is a
lifelong Pursuit and and you just say
then it's kindness professional it makes
me think customer service I got a friend
in in Las Vegas Rachel sne who runs
wedding chapels and she carries that
Spirit of Excellence it's like this this
like biblical Spirit of Daniel in the
Book of Daniel was like he he had an
excellent Spirit like and it it was like
an excellent and it was customer service
how people are treated and you know
what's crazy and I think you'd agree
with this Justin
99% just won't ever do this so it's
really not that hard to stand out and be
extra ordinary because ordinary is so
common meaning like I if I'm retail
shopping chances are I walk in and this
girl's got she's like smacking her gum
and like twisting it in her bonqueque
nails looking at her phone like you need
anything even if she acknowledges me you
know this is not even a real situation
although Ma I'm I try to make it the
story funny but I mean it's true like
I'm just like but go in the customer
service person doesn't even acknowledge
you or they give you a half-hearted
thank you or or you know welcome or you
go into a restaurant it's not clean you
go in service is bad and you kind of
tolerate it you're just like that's kind
of just what it is you're like I'm
probably not going to be acknowledged
appreciated thanked walk around the
counter shake my hand you know as you
leave that's rare you know so anyways it
to me it's kind of like can you go go a
little bit deeper on that being nice
being
professional it goes a long way because
also people are on the other side of
these
Brands 100% man and like you said the
bar is super low and you know what I do
not anyone listening or watching I don't
fault you for this you want to know why
why because a lot of us especially if
you have been privileged to you know
start deriving an income from this maybe
you've never had a quote unquote real
job maybe you came out of school and you
were fortunate enough to you know start
making money from your from your you
know Social Media stuff um you never
understood what it was like in a
corporate environment and what's
expected and um those kind of things you
might learn uh at at a normal 9 to5 UM
you're kind of learning this on the Fly
so I totally commiserate with you and
understand um but that's why it's so
important to educate yourself around
what it actually takes to be
professional um and I I actually think
this is a blessing I think I hope this
is an exciting prospect for people
because it means that you know it's not
just about the numbers it's not just
about the views it's not just about the
subscribers it's also about uh your
level of customer service when you
collaborate with these Brands and it
goes long way I love this well before we
go into a few more strategic questions
it's some of the best stuff actually I
think that we're about to hit I do
you've got a new book sponsor magnet it
also is on pre-order or maybe it's out
by the time you see this episode and if
you um go to the
website and we'll make sure that's in
the the show notes people can get some
other cool stuff like 15 negotiation
scripts which is priceless and you've
got uh a bunch of other cool things give
us just a quick overview of the book
before we get to a few final questions
Yeah man so uh you know I briefly
mentioned this but you know my wife and
I have been creators for over 15 years
started our first YouTube channel in
2019 so we've done hundreds and hundreds
of deals oursel but also I ran this
Agency for many years um and that I
think has afforded me a pretty unique
perspective to kind of behind the scenes
of what's actually happening at these
Brands um and what they're saying behind
closed doors about creators and why
they're passing on you and hiring other
people instead and so I've really kind
of distilled the last basically 15 years
of experience into this book um and I
just I don't I think it's the first book
of its kind I don't I I think that some
uh it's there's been a hunger for this
type of knowledge um and I'm very very
excited about finally getting it out
into the universe because um I really do
feel it's going to impact a lot of
people's lives and businesses quite
profoundly and so um yeah it's
everything that I know I basically talk
about my eight-step sponsorship wheel
methodology uh which is uh basically
walking you through the pitch the
negotiation contracts the concept uh the
feedback the or the production the
feedback the publication and the
analysis so those are the eight steps um
and how important it is to actually have
a system uh to turn sponsorships into a
predictable income so um I think it's
going to be uh a pretty exciting thing
for a lot of people we don't rise to the
level of our goals we fall to the level
of our systems systems are the secret
and it's one thing to do one a oneoff
deal and get lucky it's a whole another
thing to turn this into a systematic
business and the creators who truly last
even get liftoff let alone last are
going to lean into systems that's a
Priceless investment books are one of
the best investment you could ever get
I'm not trying to I don't even have an
affiliate link or anything I just want
to encourage people to pick up the book
if you use the link in the description
it's best on your website right it's
going to be on Amazon eventually or it
is yep it's going to be everywhere at
launch but uh yeah sponsor magnet.com is
the best place amazing so yeah you can
check that out in in uh and if you are a
serious Creator it's a no-brainer to
invest in resources like this obviously
one couple hundred brand deal $100 brand
deal would pay for the investment and uh
no matter what size of Channel you are
thinking about the wisdom you could get
there now there's one other framework we
did touch on it earlier speaking about
like used's rights but it's the uh due
rule briefly hit this yeah so real
quickly I call it the do rule it's
deliverables usage rights and
exclusivity so the deliverables one is
easy is like when you're Nea with the
brand and they say oh we'd love to
collaborate a couple of posts like it
would be awesome no you need to know
exactly what you need to do is it going
to be an integrated video is it going to
be a dedicated video how many videos is
it going to be do you have to do
community posts are they going to be
asking for that uh you have to scope the
deal properly so you know what level of
work is actually going to be required of
you uh the usage rights we talked about
so that's the U in terms of
understanding whether it's just organic
usage rights meaning that they can
reshare it on their platforms um or do
they want to run paid advertising to it
which is which is you should be
compensated for that right uh and then
this last one we actually didn't talk
about much which was exclusivity uh is
hey are they saying that you cannot uh
work with any of our competitors for a
certain duration um because this has a
real this is like a real meaningful uh
like you know dollar and cense impact to
your wallet uh if you don't uh consider
this I could share a quick story a
creator that I I've coached um agreed to
five years of exclusivity for a free
mattress they weren't even paid they
didn't even get paid they just got a
free mattress and didn't realize that
that was the deal that they had signed
and so like a year or two after that
they were about to you know sign a deal
with another you know Casper or whatever
another mattress company um and realized
looking at Contract yeah realiz and they
were just like oh my God so this has
like a material impact on your life and
your business and so this stuff matters
like you really need to understand
before you enter the into these
agreements um and ensure you're
protected
well you know it's funny too because
five years also could have been fine if
it was like a million dollars you know
what I mean you know or even six figures
depending on if this channel is small
you go okay you just calculate it out
like you know um but definitely like
reading the fine print even on a free
product which un must means they sign a
contract for the free
product read your contracts now this is
something I've been learning of course
AI is not legal advice but
AI is really changing the game when it
comes to lawyers and I I hope this
encourages people like you know one we
now consistently are hiring lawyers at
think media at the size of company we
are whether that's on the employee side
or contract side uh in brand deals
because it's worth reviewing especially
if the brand deal is large and most you
know lawyers could cost 300 bucks an
hour or 500 bucks an hour or $1,000 an
hour and if it takes them an hour to
reveal your contract you're listening to
this you're like that I just not even
I'm not even in that ball game what's so
crazy and I saw a big Twitter threat
about this is the legal advice from AI
is oftentimes Superior than actually a
conversation with an attorney and one
person joked and said uh I want to offer
to hire an
attorney contingent on me first getting
advice from AI putting it in a sealed
envelope listening to what they have to
say and if it's not Superior to what's
in the sealed envelope then I get my
money back right don't pay
them and uh you know kind of a funny
thought exercise I don't know if the
attorney would agree to that but what's
cool like you also just might be able to
save time Andor like and it's as simple
as Pace contract in Ai and say what are
the red
flags and that could I just did one and
it was and so I decided not to hire an
attorney I wasn't that stressed about
the whole thing but it gave me like six
things to consider and also cuz I'm an
impatient person number one if I read it
I'm going to start going dyslexic and
start like getting like oh I don't even
know and I don't care but man if I've
learned you need to know and care you're
saying it you don't want to give five
years of you know and so AI could just
prompt you and say do you really want to
give five years of exclusive rights you
might be like and then you can ask
questions what does that mean what does
exclusive mean and so uh it's you know a
new year I think leaning into that as as
you start looking at any contracts it's
it takes well this living in an where
the old Shawn was probably just going to
be taken advantage of the new Shawn at
least is actually running everything
through Ai and um and then to that point
like not to go crazy deep on this but
sometimes States and different places
like it might say like well this is
they're from Texas and the laws in
Washington or and that's kind of why
like you could get such a broader
perspective because we're dealing with a
large language model that can be
actually pretty updated now then again
of course the disclaimer is it's not
actually legal advice and you AI can
hallucinate and it might not be accurate
but at least you you could avoid some
things and creators
are known to get it taken advantage of
just kind of like musicians that get
taken advantage of by record labels
because we are creative we we want to
just focus on the video and do the art
and the reading and analyzing a contract
is the most stressful and like and and
so unfortunately
whether intentional or not Brands take
advantage of that you know or they just
they have their standard thing that'd be
another thing and you can affirm or
challenge anything I'm saying here I
think I had I had a lot of fear about
pushing back and but I've realized even
with some of our growth video speakers
some of our whatever the initial
contract that'll come from a brand
that'll come from a person that'll come
from a business a lot of times it
doesn't even mean they're malicious it's
just going to be written so heavily in
their favor they just I might as well
get all of this stuff so they just throw
it in there and so then we review it and
it's like this is kind of crazy like
this and then we push back and they're
like yeah no yeah no problem we we'll
red line that out yeah we'll fix it no
big deal um and so it's just like cuz it
doesn't even mean that they would do
everything that they said in there it's
just their standard contract which is
probably crazily weighted towards them
and so slow down take a beat take a
breath and realize that small creators
now kind of have a new advantage that
didn't want to exist doesn't you don't
need a big budget to start being a lot
smarter when it comes to some of these
professional areas of brand deals 100%
dude I mean I totally agree if possible
always should try to you know hire uh
legal uh you know uh professional to
review your contracts but AI can do a
great job at like you said pulling out
just the plain English of like hey what
should I care about what are the red
flags in fact you could take some of the
red flags I talk about in the contract
section of the book and just put it in
there and say hey remember this every
time I send you a contract measure it up
against these like 12 things that I I
need to care about as a Creator and tell
me if any there's any red flags here
yeah that's genius well this has been a
powerful episode I'm excited to have you
back later this year as we always get an
update as it pertains to Brands and
brand
sponsorships um you already kind of
shouted it out but lastly if people want
to follow you get your resources the
book uh where can they follow yeah
sponsor magnet.com uh that's the best
place uh I appreciate you know each and
every one of you who help spread the
word about the book honestly I I feel as
though uh I have a duty to kind of
educate the next generation of creators
and I just there's no way I'm going to
be able to do it without Word of Mouth
and so I think I did the hard part which
was write a damn good book um and so now
I'm now it's the the the fun part which
is uh telling the world about it well
that's uh amazing and thick media
podcast like rate review share the
podcast wherever you watch or listen
and my name is Sean Kel you're guide to
building a profitable YouTube channel
and we'll catch you in a future episode