---
title: 'How to Build a Career in Tech: Cassidy Williams Connects the Dots'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=qsBfyUzZhTc'
video_id: 'qsBfyUzZhTc'
date: 2026-08-10
duration_sec: 3440
---

# How to Build a Career in Tech: Cassidy Williams Connects the Dots

> Source: [How to Build a Career in Tech: Cassidy Williams Connects the Dots](https://youtube.com/watch?v=qsBfyUzZhTc)

## Summary

In this episode of Connecting the Dots, Cassidy Williams, a principal developer experience engineer at Netlify, shares her journey from a traditional CS degree to a stellar tech career. She emphasizes the power of networking, creating your own luck, and the importance of authenticity and practice in building a successful career in tech.

### Key Points

- **Introduction and Guest** [00:05] — Cassidy Williams, a dev experience engineer at Netlify, joins the show to discuss career building in tech.
- **Traditional Start and Networking Shift** [02:22] — Cassidy had a traditional CS background but credits networking in junior year as the biggest shift, attending hackathons, conferences, and meetups even from Iowa.
- **Networking Tactics** [03:31] — She started by emailing people, going to office hours, and asking for introductions, which opened doors like speaking at the White House.
- **Summer of Networking** [04:11] — She set a goal of 300 LinkedIn connections during her summer internship, attending hackathons or meetups twice a week, which changed her career trajectory.
- **Squeaky Wheel Gets the Grease** [06:32] — Cassidy emphasizes that asking and being loud about it led to opportunities like the hackathon on a plane, where she emailed organizers and got a spot.
- **Creating Your Own Luck** [09:18] — She reframes luck as a numbers game, noting that many emails get ghosted, but you never know which one will reply, comparing it to entering raffles.
- **Writing Everything Down** [13:43] — Cassidy writes down all ideas, jokes, and projects in notebooks and digital tools, using a 'second brain' concept to capture ideas for the future.
- **Confidence Through Repetition** [16:11] — She builds confidence by tweaking approaches, like teaching workshops, refining content based on feedback, and using 'repetition is recognition'.
- **Interviews as Practice** [17:22] — She recommends treating every interview as practice, even when not job hunting, to learn how to present yourself and interact with different interviewers.
- **Effective Coding Practice** [18:58] — Practice by implementing algorithms in different languages, building projects like to-do lists or Reddit clones, and dedicating time like 'CodePen Thursdays'.
- **Learning in Public** [22:39] — Sharing your work, even imperfect, builds name recognition and connections, as exemplified by her father-in-law who got a job after posting on Twitter.
- **Selling Yourself** [25:20] — Figure out your personal brand, know what you like and don't like, and practice a 30-second pitch with friends to articulate it well.
- **Reframing Selling as Matching Goals** [28:33] — Instead of selling, Cassidy matches what she knows with what someone is trying to accomplish, connecting dots between their goals and her skills.
- **Managing Side Projects** [31:20] — For side projects, figure out your schedule, like coding in the morning, and manage energy by batch cooking meals to save decision-making energy.
- **Typical Day and Focus** [34:02] — She wakes up and goes straight to work, but for new projects, she moves away from her desk to a couch with a laptop to focus, avoiding distractions.
- **What Makes Someone Investable** [37:46] — Cassidy dislikes direct 'be my mentor' DMs; instead, start with a relationship, ask specific questions, and be present in communities.
- **Building Mentorship Relationships** [38:25] — Mentorship grows naturally, like with Kelly Hoey, through regular check-ins and two-way value, not one-sided requests.
- **Interview Mistakes to Avoid** [46:36] — Avoid copying personal websites, being closed to feedback, and taking out stress on interviewers; instead, be honest and humble.
- **Authenticity Boosts Career** [51:11] — Bringing more of herself online, like funny videos and keyboards, made her presence take off, showing that authenticity attracts followers.
- **Work-Life Balance Through Authenticity** [54:15] — Bringing your whole self sets expectations, like the opera reviewer, and builds in work-life balance.

### Conclusion

Cassidy Williams' career advice centers on proactive networking, consistent practice, and authenticity. By asking, showing up, and being yourself, you can create opportunities and build a fulfilling tech career.

## Transcript

episode of connecting the dots. And today with me I've got Cassidy Williams. out with us today. Thank you for having me. I'm excited. I am just tickled pink you you chose to come and join us on here. I
blast. Um So I mean I I feel like you're one of the people who needs no introduction, but maybe we should do just for the the sake of anyone who's been living under a rock or
doesn't go on Twitter or isn't familiar with Tik Tok. Um introduction for yourself? Hello everyone. I exist. Um I'm a I'm a dev experience engineer with
Jason at Netlify. I make beams on the internet. And that's really the high-level thing. I could I could go into more detail, but thing. Yeah, I I think that's that's our whole
thank you so much for hanging out with us today. The the goal of what we want to talk about today is um The like the premise for the show is a lot of people are looking for work right now. It's been a hard year. Tech
is getting busier and busier. There are more and more people who are are moving through traditional means, through non-traditional means, just studying on And that means that there are a lot of folks who are trying to get that first
role. And so what we want to do on the show is talk to people like yourself who have a like a stellar career. You know, you've you've done a lot of amazing things that we'll talk about and you've got an amazing network that we'll also
But kind of rewind that a little bit and talk about how you got those first steps and how you started that journey. And also the part that I find most interesting is when we're talking about a tech career,
what is it that we're able to bring to it that's not tech training? So, not being a developer, not being computer science major, but what do we bring from the rest of ourselves that gives us an advantage, that gives us that
opportunity to go further and and do more with our tech career? Um more with our tech career? Um So, I guess to to jump right into this, how did you like what was your journey from like not in tech to first tech job?
How did you how did you get started? Um so, I have a very traditional background. I actually have a CS degree um and studied computer science. I started coding when I was a teenager and and played around with things, started
building stuff, uh took AP computer science in high school, and then got uh got my computer science degree. Um but, in college, I kind of did have a shift that introduced me to the tech industry um that I think was significant where I
and uh I would say probably my junior year connected and that's when I started actually networking with people, which I think was the biggest shift of all because um
once I started going to hackathons and conferences and meetups and just any any events that I could go to and granted I went to Iowa State University, excellent school, loved it there. Um but, Iowa is kind of in the middle of nowhere and so
a lot of people think, "Oh dang, I have to be in San Francisco to go to the meetups and stuff." You don't. You can be in the middle of Iowa and and still go to these things. And so, um I I started getting connected by just
emailing with people, going to office hours and saying, "Hey, I heard you're connected with this person. Can I get an introduction?" Just starting to kind of put out feelers, getting involved with online communities, and doing that just
really opened so many doors for me where uh my junior year of college I was my sister and I both ended up speaking at the White House to talk about inclusion in technology and stuff with with a bunch of other women our age,
which was an amazing opportunity. And people who I met there, I ended up following up emailing them and and one of them ended up becoming a mentor to And then that next summer I interned out
summer of networking because I truly just I went to either a hackathon or a meet up at least twice a week the entire summer. I was just constantly Where Where's most people? Most people are having their summer of love, you had
your summer of LinkedIn requests. The Actually, that's exactly how I described it. I was just like, I want to get 300 connections on LinkedIn this summer alone. Like I I I set that as a goal.
You laugh, but it's true. I know I know it's I know it's like the nerdy thing to do at a summer internship, but I it it changed the trajectory of my career really cuz I was able to get connected to so many cool cool people where one of
the people who I met that summer ended up She's a mentor to me to this day and where I got her business card at a hackathon and emailed, "Hey, it was nice to meet you." And now she was invited to
my wedding. She's someone who I talk with regularly. Like it it just happened to be that way. And so I think I think the networking aspect is something that really just uh helped take off my career because even
everywhere, you still need to know how to code, you still need to know how to do things. Being able to make those connections with people is so vital for just getting your foot in the door sometimes. And and I've been able to
have so many cool experiences because I've been willing to go through all of the emails of people who are at an event, send a nice to meet you, and just Absolutely. And so I want to dig into something a little bit because you have
this almost otherworldly ability to end up in junior year of college you spoke at the White House. You are part of a like a React core team community call where you kind of talk to the React team about
what should and shouldn't happen in the community and and you've got like you things. And that we could just say, oh, well, that's think that's true. I think you work really hard at that. And so I'm I would
love to hear what what is it that you're doing? How are you making these did you do to get that invite to the get invited to these calls with with different community leaders and and, you
know, to do the MC work and all of this? You know, the phrase that my mom always says is squeaky wheel gets the grease. A lot of times it's just asking and being loud about it and stuff. And so like not not just like getting invited to the
White House and and getting invited to speak at the UN, getting invited to to go to all these cool places. That was stuff where truly there was for example, one of the things that I did that junior summer that again changed
hackathon on a plane and it was a flight from San Francisco to London and it was I was the only undergrad student on this plane and the other people were so much
cooler than me. Like Craig of Craigslist was on the plane. Megan Smith, who's CTO Just Kimberly Bryant from Black Girls Code people. I found out the plane was happening. I emailed the organizers and
this. Do you have space for someone like me? And then I like sent them my resume dropped out. Sure, we can fill your spot. was like it was truly me just asking. And and if you don't ask, you don't get,
And and if you don't ask, you don't get, really. And so, a lot of it is just asking. And And for example, getting to know the React team and getting involved with with all these technical groups, a lot of times it was
just me sliding into the DMs and saying, "Hey, I'm really interested in this work that you're doing. I don't know if you can ever use me, but I think it would be this because I'm really interested in the technology that you're using." It
It's small, but that's something that is significant. I remember when I was first in my first tech job in Brooklyn, and I would always go to the Brooklyn JS meetup and and just getting to know people there. And I saw that at one of
there. For those who don't know, he made jQuery. I DM'd him beforehand, and I to be at this meetup. I hope I meet you there. See you." Left it at that. And and I remember I was with all my coworkers, and he was just like, "Hey,
to meet you, Cassidy." And like that was truly the interaction. The street cred I got out of when John Resig approached me. But, when John Resig approached me. But, well, it it it was significant because
because he approached me, I got to have a conversation with him. And then people who wouldn't normally talk to me started talking to me because they saw who's big in the industry. Yeah.
Um and it's it's something that I think is undervalued in tech to just be willing to kind of put your ego at the door and just ask and just reach out and and talk to people. You You know, you you brought up two
interesting. The The first one is it would be really easy to chalk a lot of this up to luck. You You emailed that hackathon on a plane, and it just so and they had space, right? So, oh, lucky. But, this is I think a really
good example of creating your own luck. Um because, you know, if if we look back on this, how many of these emails have you sent that got ghosted, that went nowhere, where you got a no?
Constantly. Like there there sometimes people on Twitter I'm just like, I remember I DM'd them and they never DM'd me back. And it's it's just like just oh, I forgot they existed. They probably never knew I did. That's just
that happens all the time. But you never know if someone will reply. I I take the same approach with raffles. I apply to every raffle I enter. People think I win a lot of raffles. I've won quite a few things. That's how I got my Kindle.
That's how I got just like various LEGO sets and stuff that I have. You never know if you could win. Your percentage is low, but you could get lucky. And and with that kind of stuff. I take the same approach with job
interviews, too. When I was in college, I think I applied to over a hundred, maybe two hundred jobs. And people were just like, dang, you got a lot of job offers. I'm like, yeah, but do you know how many interviews I had to go to? Like
dozens and dozens and dozens of interviews. And sure I had like a decent picking to choose from in the end, but it was because I did so many job interviews. Yeah. Well, I think I mean that that is
it gets skipped a lot when we talk about these because, you know, the the happenstance or the chance encounters or the the lucky break, a lot of times that happens because you do, you know, hundreds of job applications or send
hundreds of job applications or send hundreds of DMs that go ignored. And you know, I I think that it can be really easy to to send off one job request and you don't hear anything back and you go, oh, I must not be any good at this. And
you're only half of the equation. You're also waiting for someone to be at the right place at the right time with the right needs. And so you have to create as many of those opportunities as you can to to you know be the right person
that you're available. So when they have that need, they go oh I just talked to Cassidy. She's looking for this kind of work. We should talk to her. Like that's you know the I I I always I and maybe you'll you'll echo this but
say nothing's happening. This doesn't work. I'm never going to make it in this industry. And I always tell them I'm like look it's happening and then it's all going to happen at once. You just got to keep
showing up. Yeah, a friend of mine actually was looking for a job for a solid year and a half and nothing was happening and he and stuff and he finally started his brand new job this week and he was so
startup. And literally three days after he started, three of those startups that he had applied to suddenly were just like hey, we really like talking to you back in the day but we're just now having openings and he's
just like well, that timing is nuts cuz it it it you know just like you said, you never know when that timing will work out and so just is a numbers game. All kinds of opportunities and conversations and things. A lot of times
putting it out there and seeing what might come back. Um and and that actually I think is a a nice kind of segue into into something particular because I think that you have a really unique presence on on uh
everywhere that you show up which is that you are like legitimately funny. And um and I think that like it's it it was when I first met you and and I'm not saying that like oh I met
I don't but but when I when I first met you, I think I would have assumed that you are just like a naturally funny person and that everything that you see, you're like, "I've got a funny joke for that." And
you just you just whip off zingers all the time. And what I've realized through through you actually you taught our team how to be funny, which was I I love that. Um but you you have this approach to
Um but you you have this approach to everything where you repeatedly try And where you're you're tweaking approaches and and kind of assessing that. Can you talk a little bit through
maybe not necessarily in humor, but just in like your approach in general. Um how you think? Yeah, so to that between between jokes, between project ideas, between pretty much
everything, I just write everything down. And and I have I have both physical notebooks, I have drawings, I have digital ones, I have managers of all kinds of things. I write absolutely everything down because you
Right. And sometimes it's a code snippet, sometimes it's look into this website because this might be interesting someday. There there are so many things where I I'm even still on Pinterest
where I purely just put like projects that I might want to do someday. Just to see if something might land. And and a lot of times it's me kind of prepping for someday in the future that may never come, but for for every joke, for every
tweet, for every task I take on, sometimes even jobs I might want to apply to someday, I write them down. Because it's it's kind of I guess it's kind of like that second brain concept in a way.
Because there are times where you might think of a good idea and just forget it, and I will forget things if I don't write it down. And and so just getting it down on paper helps remember it, and then tagging things
properly, organizing yourself properly. You never know when an idea you might have one day might actually be the perfect idea Yeah. Um and and so as part of this too, you
down, you're keeping track of these ideas, uh but you're also I would I would guess, you know, I know for for me at least when I'm trying to make jokes, I spend a lot of time making jokes that are only marginally funny or not funny
at all, and I learn like when I try it this way it gets a little bit of a laugh. If I tweak it like this, it gets a lot of a laugh. And I found similar things in my in my career. If I build a thing like this, people get it. If I
present it like this, people kind of recoil and back away. How would you say that that sort of approach, cuz I I know that you're things and tweak and try things and tweak, how does that affect your
confidence? You only get more confident over time. example of this is I used to teach workshops full-time for for React stuff. like, "Ah man, I know this material, but I am nervous for teaching people about
it. We'll see how it goes." And it went decently at first, and then I was just like, "Okay, you know what? They asked those questions, so I'm going to try to particularly clear." So the next workshop, it's tweaked ever so slightly.
And the more I did it, the more the the more refined it got. It's kind of like uh stand-up comedians how they want their tight 10. They uh they rework a joke until it's funny enough that that they consistently get a laugh. Um
there's this phrase that I like to use, "Repetition is recognition." The the try different approaches, whether it's a coding approach, a humor approach, a talk approach, a blog approach, um you you perfect it. And and practice does
make perfect for pretty much everything. Yeah. Yeah, I I think so a couple people in the chat are asking about um how to build confidence for tech interviews. And would you say that's, you know, that's how you would recommend it or are
recommend? 100% recommend it. It is again, when I said it was a numbers game, like every single interview is a practice interview. And like the I have done a lot of interviews. I I have interviewed
interview even when I'm not looking for a job just because it's good practice. And learning how to present yourself in an interview, figuring out what kind of experiencing different interviewers
this person someone who would kind of smirk if you make a self-deprecating joke? Or is this the kind of person who would just like be stoic? You kind of interact with all of these different interviewers, and that really helps over
time. And and I truly think that I'm decent at interviewing not because I'm perfect at getting merge sort in the proper Mhm. but because I've done it so many times
and because I've interacted with interviewers so many times that I know how to It feels like gaming the system, but really it's just practice. Absolutely. Yeah, I I found the same thing. Like the the one of the reasons
that I run learn with Jason is because it forces me to practice. Like I I get put into situations with things I don't know and I have to just figure it out. And because of that, I feel like my stress tolerance is so much higher
because I just do it all the time and I practice doing that live stuff. Um so there's a a question in the chat, which I think is actually pretty interesting. Um Siddhant is asking, "What's an effective way of practicing coding and
like what sort of intermediate goals should you keep for that practice?" So there's there's so many different ways to practice coding and I guess it depends on your goals. And I hate answering it depends when that is kind
of the answer. But um so so for example, if you really want to a certain type of algorithm or data structure, try implementing it in different languages. Start implementing it in pseudo code first, implement
certain things in pseudo code first, then do it to Python, then Ruby, then JavaScript, then Java and stuff. Figure out how you can kind of solidify that information where it's yes, you're experimenting with different languages,
but you're really getting used to the structure of that data. You're really should be. Meanwhile, if you're trying to really just get good at JavaScript, just constantly build things with JavaScript. I remember
really keen on maintaining my GitHub streak and I had like I think it was 128 days on GitHub of just straight coding and a lot of times my projects were just particularly useful projects, but I was just like, you know what? I want to just
get good at JavaScript. And so I just tried to build something with it every code, sometimes I'd get past that writer's block and and write a ton of writer's block and and write a ton of code. Um but really it's just build
something and and there's so many ideas out there to build and and you can start with something basic like a to-do list, a book review app, something like that. But then as as you practice, be like a chat app, a Reddit clone,
something that just just keep keep kind of copying existing ideas while building it in your own unique way to to really just practice it and and for example, I tried to get better at CSS for a long time. And so I every single Thursday, I
called it CodePen Thursdays, I'd build something on CodePen, I'd get a design from Dribbble or something and just try to recreate it. I'd give myself an hour, sometimes it was not perfect, but it got me practicing. And and slowly but
surely, I got decent at CSS because I was practicing it enough and suddenly I was able to say, "Okay, well, if I know I need to center this, these are the three approaches I can take." And and just go with it. And so, truly just
code. And it's hard to get started, but start with something dumb and basic and you get an app idea that you want to use that idea later. Yeah, I and I think like what you're
what you're mentioning, too, there's also another thing that you can do with briefly, but I want to dig into a little bit more, which is you were practicing, but then you created CodePen Thursdays, and that was something you could share.
Um and so, if you're trying to learn something, like one of my favorite examples of this is Lynn Fisher. She does a project called a single div, and during October she does Divtober. And every single day she makes a CSS
illustration or animation using just CSS, most of the time in CodePen, and shares it. And as a result, she's built huge name recognition. She's one of the like the the first people you would think of if you wanted to do beautiful
CSS art, you would go, "Oh, we need Lynn Fisher." And that's not because like that's not even her job. She's like an executive at at a at an agency or just does this because she likes doing it. And as a result, she's become a
leading expert on it. Um how do you feel that that sort of of kind of exposing your work, even if it's not the best thing you've ever built, you think? Learning in public is huge. And I and I
think I think that's something that a lot of people should do. I know it's not for everybody, so I don't want to say everyone should do this, but it gets your name out there, and sometimes that is that is all you need to to
do something really well with your career or or do make connections that you need. Um an example of this, honestly, is my father-in-law. He He's a 55-year-old Korean man and he decided he wanted to learn how to code 3 years ago.
And so we were practicing with him. We were helping him learn and and as he was is really interesting to me." But he was having trouble in interviews because his English wasn't so great and then he was nervous about ageism and all and all
kinds of stuff. And we said, "Okay, how about this? Start posting on Twitter. Even if it's even if it's just like, 'I built this today.' And no links or anything. Just start posting regularly. So that way So that way your your name
can be out there a bit. And it worked. There there was a point where it was he did like 100 days of code where he would just say like, "Today I implemented end-to-end tests on this." Or "Today Today I struggled with this. I
done, but I'm working on it." That gave him practice writing. That gave him practice explaining what he was working on. That gave him the recognition of, today." And then when he tweeted out that he was looking for a job, people
who had been noticing his tweets over time, he he was able to get on calls with them and and after doing the job interview process, which took a very long time, he started his first job this year, his first software
engineering job, and he's killing it. And it's truly just from all the practice and putting his name out there. And And it's something that he's not tweeted ever since he got the job because like he's like, "You know what?
I've got my job. I'm good." But it That was enough. Just like, "I'm I'm set." But uh if you want to If you get your name out there, it first of all, again, it tells you that you did
something even if it was something hard. But then it also kind of puts it out there in the world where if someone someday is trying to say, "Man, I wonder this before?" They might find your project or they might find your status.
They might ask you about it. And you never know what connections might come Yeah. Yeah, and and so I think um there was a there was a question that I thought was really interesting um which relates to this, which is you
learning how to like write about what he's doing, to communicate what he's doing. And uh Elliot asks uh or he just Yeah, he asked uh I realized lately that I'm not selling myself well. How have you figured out how to sell yourself and
resonate with your interviewers? That is a great question. And I I think that that is that is the golden question really, figuring out how to sell yourself because selling Cassidy Williams is different from
selling Jason Lengstorf. It's different from selling Sarah Drasner. It's everyone sells themself differently. And so you have to figure out kind of I I hate to use a cliché phrase, but your personal brand of how you want to pitch
yourself. And I think figuring that out involves many things. First of all, what you want to do? Um I think both are just like, "Okay, I'm willing to do anything to get a job." You're not
know what you actually do want to do, what you don't want to do. And and be you can do, what are you good at, what are you not that good at. The There are I know I am not good at low-level languages like C and C++. I never want
to write those again. There are times where really cool jobs come up where I'm programming robots, that would be amazing." And then I have to remind working with these languages that I don't want to work with." It it it just
sounds cool and stuff. And so knowing what you like, knowing what you don't like, and figuring out your like 30-second pitch, this is what I can do, this is what I can't do. And being able to articulate that well for yourself
means that you can articulate it well to other people as you practice that pitch over and over. Um a A of times for that like 30-second pitch of yourself, whether you're going to a career fair or you're or just talking to interviewers
practice with your friends. They're I remember when I was in college even, my roommates and I we would just say, "Okay, this is my 30-second pitch for myself. What do you think?" And I would just introduce myself quickly, explain
that I'm hoping to do. Go. And then seeing what what they might say and then uh be ready for those kinds of follow-up questions and stuff. And and figuring out how to sell yourself does involve uh
maybe a few flops here and there and you could be just like, "Okay, that approach was not great. And so now I know not to do that Well, and that's where the the repetition, like creating your own luck,
going to become the best baker in the world, you don't just find one recipe is probably the best bread, right?" You have to make a bunch of bad bread before you realize what the common elements are that make great bread. Um can you tell
I was just going to say, "I could go for some bread." that I would would kind of love to dig into around this is like
when you are um when you're talking about this to people when you're talking about this to people who aren't super confident in coming out think when you when you talk to a lot of folks, especially introverts, the idea
of selling gets really kind of skin-crawly. They're like, "I don't want idea." Um one one thing that I heard that I really like and that I think you're very good
at is instead I I don't consider a lot of what I'm doing to be selling. I consider it to be that I am looking at what somebody's trying to accomplish and I'm trying to match what I know how to do with what their goals are. And then
I'm I'm trying to connect those dots between where they are, what I can offer, and how we can get there. So, I'm not really selling myself. I'm I'm trying to, you know, paint this picture of what we could do together. And the
how like I I guess Do you Do you follow a similar approach? And And And if so, kind of how How does How does your brain wrap around that sort of conversation?
That's my exact approach to everything. Not just Not even just I figure out how can I relate to you in a way that will be interesting for you and that I can continue to speak to and stuff. And I myself am a very
introverted person. Like I I give tech talks and stuff. I'll answer questions afterwards. Small talk is terrifying. Uh If you talk If you talk to high school me, you'd be you'd She'd be shocked that I'm
a very public persona today just because it's something that I never expected to do. And And selling is terrifying. But, kind of like what you said, really all it is is figuring out what will this person want
to hear, what will this person respond to, and how can I show myself to them in a way that they will respond to. Like how how do I frame all of this? And I feel like every time I'm at an event, every every time I'm I'm speaking to
people, whether it's over Zoom or over an interview or anything, it's it's as they introduce themselves, getting to know them, figuring out their cadence of speaking, figuring out how they how they talk, not necessarily just mirroring it,
seem to have a sense of humor. I'm going to cut it out and just try to, you know, say it's say it straight." But then, there are some people where you can now and then. Okay, I'll throw in a few dry jokes here and there and see if they
like it." Or there's someone like you, for example, you laugh at jokes and I appreciate that. And so I know that I can just I can just throw crap to the wind and I'll get a smile out of it and it's great and we both have a good time.
And so I I think I I think that is a very key way of just kind of getting to know people and and you can build the relationship after the initial connection, but sometimes the initial connection is figuring out how can I
make this conversation work. And and that really is what selling is. that really is what selling is. Yeah, absolutely. Um so I have a a big departure because a great question just came in. Muhammad asks, uh I already
have work as a software developer to tech company, but I'm finding it hard to do side projects and and other ideas. Do you have any tips? I get that. Sometimes work is exhausting and so at the end of the day you're just
I want to code, but I can't and your brain is just tired. And I think I think you have to figure out your schedule then. And and I know some people where they are just exhausted at the end of the day, they can't fathom writing more
they start their day with it. And they're just like, "Okay, you know what? I'm going to wake up an hour earlier and I'm just going to code on my own stuff and then get to work." And and and figuring out that kind of schedule for
important cuz when you're excited about an idea, uh you could you could code on that for ages, but sometimes you kind of need that kick in the pants. So I I think for myself like whenever I'm getting through that slump or I'm just
so tired at work, but I want to work on something myself, I'll start it in the morning, go through my work day, but if I'm excited by what I started in the morning, I'll just work on it after work then because I've already got those
juices flowing. Um and so I think figuring out a schedule for yourself is important there and and experimenting with different ones until you find Yeah, I I think like I I've heard it described as as we have a like a
described as as we have a like a reservoir of mental energy or willpower if we don't sleep enough, that reservoir is is more empty when we start. Um so you are kind of taking care of yourself physically so that you can operate at
the right level. And then being aware of like what's taking those those like what's sapping that energy because there are a bunch of decisions that I don't realize drain me, that drain me intensely. Like if I
intensely. Like if I have to open up my fridge and choose what to eat. Like I'm like, okay, I have a bunch of ingredients, I can cook four meals, what am I going to cook tonight? That's actually like all of my side
project energy trying to think of what I'm going to cook. So one of the ways that I've started hacking that is by making like a batch meal. I'll make chili or curry or or something that I can make a lot of and then have ready so
that I don't have to use that energy on my weeknights. I can say, okay, I'm that's what's ready. And then I'm going to work on my side project because I still have the gas in the tank to do that. Um and so, you know, what um
here that I want to make sure we want to get time for. that I think is really interesting different and everybody's got different like early bird, night owl kind of
routines. What is your like typical day? How do you split up your time among different projects and and work and all the other things that you do? Yeah, and so I am one where I wake up
and I go straight to work. Like so sometimes I will wake up 10 minutes Go. Yeah, yeah, it's time for work. But then as soon as work is done, I
depending on how the day was, depending on what I need to get done, everything. And and I do have a few project for myself, but it's something that I'm doing with others. For example,
I write the Stack Overflow newsletter. For that, on on those days, I need to make sure that I write that copy before a certain hour on a certain day of the week. Otherwise, I will stay up all night just
dang copy. And so I have to have a dedicated time for that in the afternoon. Um even even stuff the small things like writing tweets for work. I have to have
set times for that because otherwise I won't actually do it. But then outside of that it if it's a project for myself or other things, I'll kind of eat food and dawdle a little bit answering emails and stuff.
But then it kind of depends on what the project of the day is. If it's me starting something new, I actually almost never start a new project at my desk because with all of my monitors and stuff in front of me, it's awesome
because I can do so many things at once. But when I want to start a brand new project, I almost always go to a chair, go to a couch or something and just sit with my laptop and focus because if I have this small screen in front of me
background, I can get all of my structure set up, have my ideas written out, have a notebook next to me to get it done. And that's that's how I focus. And then once I'm ready to like expand it a bit more, that's when I go back to
my desk and have the big stuff in front of me. Cuz otherwise I will play Fortnite or something and and chat on Discord and and stuff and not actually get to work. But typically that's that's that's the day. If I'm
starting a new project, I'm away from my desk. Otherwise, I'm playing games or desk. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, I I get that. Like if I Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, I I get that. Like if I if I even look at the TV, my
I just I I always tell myself I'm like, "Oh, I'm going to watch one episode of The Great British Baking Show before I go to bed or while while I eat dinner." half in and I'm like, "What have I done?"
done?" ALL THOSE SOGGY BOTTOMS. YEAH, YEAH, IT'S pandemic work is different from remote work. I just described a pandemic
typical day. Outside of outside of that it it totally depends because normally I see people and and I might go to an actual physical meetup more There's a lot more things to do when
there are things to do, but when you're at home in a pandemic, it's basically am I looking at a big screen or a medium screen or a small screen all the time. I know. I yeah, that's uh I I am very much looking forward to
getting back to regular remote work and not pandemic work. So, to to flip this on its head a little bit, like you are you're very senior in your career. You're you're a principal
in your job now and you act as a you know, you you do mentorship, you've worked in hiring capacities, you have led teams. So, I want to turn this a little bit the other way and I want to talk about like if you're looking for
someone that you're going to give your time to or that you're going to give an opportunity to, what have you seen that's helped somebody show that that's someone you want to invest that time into? Like how are
people how are people making it visible that that they're somebody that you want to give that chance to? First of all, I it's one of my biggest pet peeves when someone DMs and is just like, "Hey, I'd
like you to be my mentor." I just That is not how this works. It's It's Oh, that drives me crazy because that relationship isn't real. It's just you wanting something out of that person. And so, I think starting with a
relationship first is key. And and starting with that, it often just involves a question. And and I'll use an example of of a mentor of mine, her name is Kelly Hoey. She's awesome. She wrote a book on
networking. Um she is the person who I first met my junior year summer where I got her business card at a hackathon. I emailed her, "Hey, it was nice to meet you." I saw her at a few other events and stuff. And slowly over time, I would
"Kelly, I really hope that you're well. This is what I'm doing. I'm graduating soon. Blah blah blah blah." "Hey, I'm in my first job. I'm thinking about asking have any tips for me?" I kind of would just
be present and stuff, but I wouldn't ask anything of her except unless I had a very specific question. And over time, we would actually start hanging out. We she would say, "Hey, actually I need someone to speak at this event. Will you
would say, "Hey, I actually need some advice in this regard. Can you help me here?" And and it became kind of a two-way relationship. It wasn't just me her. And a lot of times when I see mentorships fail, it's because it's
someone who just wants something out of a person and they're just like, "Okay, check in with me once a month to see how I'm doing. And you can coach me as if I'm doing. And you can coach me as if it's as as if you're hiring them to do
free labor. And and that's that's not what mentorship is about. Mentorship is getting to know someone in a relationship, a friendship where they just they just happen to be further ahead in in their career. And there are
so many people who I've mentored where we've never actually said the word mentorship before. It's just a It's just something where I happened to help them out a few times because they asked specific questions.
were saying, "Hey, would would someone mind reviewing my resume?" And I would would do that and then we just kind of started talking more and more and that's just how it ended up being. It It has to be a lot more natural than a mentorship
proposal. It's got to be some kind of some some kind of like actual back and forth. And so when I'm when I'm looking for people to help out and everything, I don't really actively seek out like who will be the next mentee of Cassidy. I
because Will you accept this rose? Uh it's it's truly just I hang out in chat rooms. I'm I'm on Twitter a lot and
stuff and people ask me questions on occasion and if it's if it's not like a full essay, if it's because I get enough DMs. I can't read every essay that comes my way. Um I'll I'll answer it and and sometimes we
just chat a few times on occasion. Sometimes they'll send me their resume a couple times and stuff and then eventually we just kind of have this relationship where we're just chatting on occasion and and I occasionally help
them and then they'll retweet my stuff and and and it becomes a little back and forth. And so it I guess if you are looking for a mentor, don't actively be just like who will be the one who will guide me. Just put have
a presence in certain communities and kind of put out there that you're learning. Put out there that you want your resume looked at or that you're not sure what to do here. Occasionally post questions and as people start answering
the questions, the the mentors kind of come out of the fold quickly. When Discords for example, um there are there are sometimes chats where people would just like, "Hey, does anybody know anything about this? I I'm
curious about how this kind of stuff works." As people answer your questions, And then you can ask more questions again in the future. Eventually you'll see who keeps who continually replies.
You can occasionally DM them a really nice thank you. Saying thank you to Oh my god. Just say thank you. It's huge. I'm not asking for anything. It's It goes so far. There are so many times
where I've just sent very simple thank you notes over email or something and know, this is the first time someone's ever thanked me for this. I I really there's just It means so much to people to see that
their efforts to help you didn't go unseen. Like you didn't just say, "Thanks." and then and then bounce. And so really just be be a giving person and be a be a grateful person and and be a part of
your communities because the mentors will come out of the fold as you start helping and and sometimes your mentor is the community and and it's it's just a other. Yeah. You know, that actually I think
because one of the things that I've realized as you know, I I went from being somebody who was brand new to the industry. I you know, I lived in Montana. I didn't have any connections and I would see people who gave keynotes
wanted to work at and I would think, "Oh my god, these must be like celebrities." I remember thinking that Paul Irish probably like had a Malibu mansion and and you know, like was the and and like he might but he but at the same time, I
don't I haven't met a single person in tech who's got a name who is walking around thinking like you know, I'm pretty great. Everybody should I well, I guess I have met people like that but in general like there are there's nobody
walking around going like, "I am a mentor and you are the mentees." It's it's very much like there's a community and it it feels
and it it feels awkward to me when somebody says "Can you be my mentor?" because I don't feel like I am I don't feel like I'm qualified to do that. I'm just a dude writing code." Um and like I know some
things, but I don't know way more things. And so what I found is that when things. And so what I found is that when the community is built around this idea of knowledge share and like knowledge transfer and everybody is participating,
then it starts to become a really good like co-mentoring or or just like like co-mentoring or or just like co-growth scenario as opposed to a It It Like if I put together a workshop, great, come learn from me. But if I'm
just being a person, I don't want I don't want to give lectures. I don't want to like sit you down and try to teach you something. I want to talk to you like a person. Like I want My online existence is about having friends, not
about having students. And I think that that is um that's something that if if we can get out of the mindset of like there are people who are here and there it levels that playing field. You can talk to somebody like a human and you
have such a better chance if you just ask a question. And then if you know something, offer some advice and support. Um it's yeah. I I And that that's actually something that I really like is you know, you've got your your
subscribers, your Patreon supporters, and that's not like Cassidy holding hanging out with people. There have been some people who are who have when I've said, "Oh, my my Patreon
just like, "Ah, this is an interesting business model. A thought leader letting people in on their deep secrets." I'm just like, "No, that's not what it is. Really, it's just a great Discord group where because there's a $2 entrance fee,
quote-unquote, there's less spam. That's That's truly That's truly what it is. And And the group is so helpful to each other. It's such a nice community and and people are are really really giving and and I think
I think that is really really important to realize are up here, they're just people. They just have more DMs. That's that's that's all it really is. That's such a good Yes, absolutely.
That's exactly what it is. Same person, worse DMs. Um in that I that I want to look at. So because you've been involved with hiring
mistakes that you've seen? Like what are the things that really like grind on saying, "Will you be my mentor?" But what what else have you seen? Oh, I've seen I've seen so many things. They just Oh, I've got stories out the
wazoo. Some more extreme examples. For example, an extreme example is one time someone applied to a job where I was reviewing the resumes and stuff was like, "Oh, this resume looks good." And I went to look at their personal
website and it was my personal website. Like all they did was change the name and the bio, but like it was my code. They even kept my comments and and thinking?" And then uh
there is one time where I was interviewing a person in person. They were doing whiteboarding. And they just started crying partway through. And I felt I felt really bad and I know I know it's like high
pressure and stuff. But then when I tried to say, "Here, I can change the "Don't worry about it." they would say, "No." And then just put their hand up literally sat there in silence while they cried 45 minutes.
Woah. It was terrible. So, these are very extreme examples. But I think they they are very very key to They're they're they're indicative of certain things. So, first of all, things
that I don't like to see. I don't like to see people who are not open for to see people who are not open for feedback. Uh if if you say no or help you out or something, that's that is a red flag. If someone's crying in an
interview in an interview, I understand. It is high pressure. But, don't take it out on the interviewer. Just just uh just be willing to take your time to get calm and then work on it again. It's that that would have
been fine, but it was because of that reaction that it wasn't great. Um for for a personal website, if you're going to just straight-up copy a personal website, at least give credit. Don't take work and then pass it off as your
own. And then and and that is that is something that oh, it peeves me cuz I've seen that not just for myself, but so many people where they they claim that they're like the world's best developer or whatever and then you see that their
code is not their own. It's it's frustrating. And so, really a lot of it is putting your ego at the door. Um don't be willing to get feedback. Be willing to admit both strengths and weaknesses.
And what I really love in interviews is if I working on it and stuff and then they just admit they say, "Honestly, I'm not this is something I would Google." I
so much. Uh I don't hold it against them at all true. There are times where I have to Google the most basic JavaScript things even though I've been using JavaScript for like 15 years. It
Sometimes you just need to Google it and and so, I love seeing that kind of honesty and and lack of ego and and humbleness when you're in an interview setting. Yeah, I I would just echo that a
thousand times. I think that's such a that's such an important thing is to just like you know, again, be a person. Like you're not selling the the 10% of your brain that knows
programming. You're selling your entire existence. You're going to be, you know, to be your your strengths, your weaknesses, all of that stuff. And showing that is what makes people feel like you're a human. You know, it's one
of the things that I that I think is so um it's it's what makes someone online kind of magnetic. It's why we follow certain accounts, not because of you know, because of their technical content. Like
that I don't understand. They're Java programmers, or they they write, you stuff. I don't do that. I can't really follow their examples, but oh my god, do I love to watch them. They're just so engaging. They're so fun. They're
they're whole humans. And that's actually kind of how I started following you was because of your uh your Tik Tok. And so maybe this is a good question to to kind of end on, but I feel like authenticity is a really
loaded word. Like we we say that and it becomes more of a marketing term. But becomes more of a marketing term. But in the sense of of you and your kind of existence as a human and online um
how much do you think bringing all of yourself versus just the technical parts has influenced your career? I think the moment I started to bring more of myself out there is when my
career really started to take off. Uh or or not even my career, just online presence and stuff in general. Like I've always been making silly videos and jokes since I was since I could operate a camcorder because I started on
camcorders back in the day. And and uh I I would always just like be silly with building cool stuff like mechanical keyboards, but on my Twitter, on my
talked about code. About a year and a half ago or whatever, when I started making these funny videos and decided to tweet about them, that's when suddenly my online presence just shot up. That's
when suddenly people were just like were actually following me and everything because it wasn't just coding content. It was fun coding content. It was humor. It was me talking more about keyboards. Suddenly it was a bit more interesting
to see. And I think and I'm not trying to like toot my own horn like because I'm hilarious, now I have hundreds of thousands of followers. It's not that. What I'm saying is by being authentic, suddenly people
actually cared what I had to say. And I think that's really indicative of a lot. about all kinds of things and they're not just sticking to tech, I I love seeing that. And it it I've seen some people were like they'll tweet a picture
with their kids and I've seen people reply saying, "Uh stick to tech. I'm I follow you for tech news." You don't want those kinds of followers anyway. You want people who who want to get to know you and stuff. And so and so ignore
those people. I love seeing people who talk about their interests outside of tech on the internet. Like granted, I love seeing the technical content. I will read almost every technical blog I
can see and write things down and stuff so that way I I can read more about it. But when I see for example, on your channel how you have your learn with like cooking and everything, I love
different interests people have. I love seeing when people are interested in Korean dramas cuz I can say, "Ooh, have you seen this one yet?" Or I love when I would love to be a better artist, but
I'm just not. And and just seeing how they draw and and and use that side of their brain, I think is so cool. Um when I when I follow people a lot of the people that I follow on Twitter and on Instagram and stuff, they might be tech
something else. They're They're rarely just someone who contributes to open source a lot. And And it's because I appreciate seeing the authenticity of someone who doesn't just code all the
And And it's cool to see the cool side projects and stuff. Don't get me wrong. I love seeing when when someone launches something cool coding-wise. But seeing people do other things and and put their whole
self out there in the workplace and out of the workplace, I think is very very huge. Uh and And I think is important because Uh and And I think is important because it allows you to have a work-life
balance built in because you go to an employer and they know that this is who you are. Like I know a gal where she um she was working at Yahoo and she reviewed operas on the side. She's actually uh she she's an opera reviewer
like the that is her side gig. She She reviews operas around the world. She's awesome. And for every single job interview, she talked about it because people know in her workplace if she says, "I have to be out of here
to this opera." They know this is her thing. And And And so that is built into her schedule and she has kind of a built-in work-life balance because she brought her whole self to the table online, in the interview, and and
elsewhere. And so I think it's really important to be authentic about that. Saying, "I'm a parent." Saying, "I like to build keyboards." Saying, "I like to stream or or play video games and stuff." Being willing to put
yourself there, it it sets an expectation that work is really important. Work is not your life is such a good ending point for this, I think. So I'm not even going to try to follow that up.
So, instead, what I'm going to say is thank you so, so much for taking the time to hang out with us today and sharing all of this wonderful insight into who you are and and how we can take some inspiration from from what you've
done to try to expand our own careers. Um what I am going to do is I'm going to drop a couple things here. Uh so, for anyone who wants to, you can find Cassidy live on Twitch at twitch.tv/cassidoo
twitch.tv/cassidoo or on Twitter at twitter.com/cassidoo. everywhere, right? Yeah, cassidoo on GitHub, CodePen, all all of those things. Yeah. All of those things. And uh and if you
want to see more live content from me, I'm going to be back with more episodes of Connecting the Dots every Friday from now up until the holiday break. Um and I also do a live stream at learnwithjason.dev.
times a week. Cassidy's been on it. You can see past episodes at Um YouTube, free Code Camp. Thank you all Cassidy, thank you again for spending your valuable time with us. I very much
appreciate it. Um any parting words for everyone? Keep meming, keep dreaming. It was It was very fun being on the show. Thank you for having me. And it was it was lovely seeing seeing the chat
play Among Us. I do. I actually streamed some last night. Um but, yeah. Yeah, come come find us on Twitter. We got links all over the place. We will
see you next time. Bye.