[00:02] >> Streamers are getting paid more than NBA players. >> That is not true. Maybe like a bench maybe like a bench player on the on like
[00:14] the Rockets or something. I mean, what are we talking about? The They're getting paid more. Hell no. I I don't in like maybe like XQC
[00:27] train wrecks. >> That is if you're looking at superstars like I show speed, Kai Sinat, and Aiden Ross, but many people don't want to. >> I mean, how much do you think they make? Bro, the I I feel like Kai
[00:43] makes I feel like his YouTube is isn't really big. Does Kai get good YouTube views anymore? He used to be mainly a YouTuber. I feel like now he's first and foremost like a Twitch streamer. Uh, he gets views, but I mean he gets like
[00:57] three 400k views a video and he doesn't really post on his main. He posts on really post on his main. He posts on Kaisenat live. He gets like 200k, 300k,
[01:09] Kaisenat live. He gets like 200k, 300k, 275, but he posts like, dude, he posts like four times a day. Hold up. He's getting he's getting like 300k views a getting he's getting like 300k views a vid more four times a day. I post once a
[01:24] day and I post a lot. Like that's a lot. Once a day. His YouTube, this YouTube Once a day. His YouTube, this YouTube channel alone, if I had to guess, probably makes like 5 mill a year. >> To accept the reality that becoming a
[01:39] successful streamer in 2025 may just be impossible. But somebody was hellbent on proving that wrong. The former world record holder for most subscribers in the world tried starting a new secret channel and came across some shocking
[01:53] >> Yeah, I saw that. He said he was going to stream he streamed nonstop until he got like one viewer and he streamed like 10 hours and no one showed up for like days. It it dude it because it's impossible. It's what I've been chirping
[02:09] impossible. It's what I've been chirping about all the time. You cannot grow on about all the time. You cannot grow on Twitch from nothing. It is impossible. You can stream on Twitch after you have a fan base and grow, but all of Twitch
[02:23] is highlevel recommendation pages. And if you're not top five in the category you're streaming, you're not going to [ __ ] get views. And even if you are category that's dead. >> Can I start a new Twitch channel and
[02:38] become successful again? Or was it all luck the first time? That's the question >> I don't think it's all luck. I think Lwig's one of the most entertaining and Lwig's one of the most entertaining and creative YouTubers I've seen, but I
[02:50] think a lot of his growth could be attributed originally to earlier Twitch and also his YouTube growth. I think YouTube cycles Twitch viewers. Hugely how painful it is to get your first viewer on Twitch. And even after you
[03:05] build an audience, there are multiple stumbling blocks. The streamer So harsh truths about the current state of streaming himself. >> Bro, Twitch is changing. Um, a lot of y'all that's at the top, I say y'all is
[03:19] at the top of the pyramid. Uh, y'all probably don't see what I see when you >> Bro, it really is the biggest pyramid that it's ever been. Like, and what I that it's ever been. Like, and what I mean by that is the level of like width.
[03:34] You know what I mean? Like Twitch in 2016 was like this and then it's just and Kai's at the tip and now it's like thinning. It's like all the people at
[03:46] thinning. It's like all the people at the bottom, dude. The bot the top 1% of the bottom, dude. The bot the top 1% of streamers hold like 99% of the views and that's just that's just and that's like 10 guys. That's like 10 [ __ ] people
[04:00] hold. So, you got to think I'm I'm ranked on Twitch Tracker like 195 on ranked on Twitch Tracker like 195 on stream. That's you. It's not me. Kai has Kai has 20 times as many view as views as me. 20 of me equals Kai. Actually,
[04:19] that's not It's more than that sometimes. Like, it is so He has 195 ain't bad. I'm not saying 195 is bad at all. I'm saying the pyramid's crazy in that I'm one of the big Twitch streamers, but even I pale in comparison
[04:37] streamers, but even I pale in comparison to to speed. Kai, not really. XQC doesn't average as many viewers as he used to, but like earlier Twitch Kai used or XQC used to be like the the biggest streamer. Like the biggest
[04:50] streamers used to average like 20 30K, but so many streamers average around that frame. Now, I feel like it's either you're stepping up to the next level or getting bumped down to like 5K Andy. I'm still a 5K Andy, right? I'm not saying
[05:04] that's bad. I'm saying most Twitch streamers that grow hover around where I look at what's taking place. >> The original beauty of streaming was that it was a level playing field. With just a computer or even a phone, you
[05:18] could become the next Aiden Ross. But once you really break down what's happening now, it's become incredibly clear that this ship has well and truly clear that this ship has well and truly sailed.
[05:33] all incredibly talented, and it would be foolish to assume that just anyone could maintain an audience's attention. Well, it's really that I think the biggest I'm I don't want to say I'm not impressed, but it's less shocking that Speed and
[05:47] Kai are the biggest Twitch streamers because they have teams of 35. They're the Mr. Beasts of streaming, right? They have teams of people that put on this
[05:59] stuff. They're huge IRLs. Speed has groups of cameramen and editors and and ways. They have security and all these people that are basically putting on a people that are basically putting on a production like a movie almost for what
[06:13] they do. And then there's guys that are like desktop streamers. I'm a desktop streamer. I'm just [ __ ] sitting talking. Even other big streamers like XQC is a desktop streamer. I would say Aiden Ross is largely a desktop
[06:25] streamer, right? Like that's becoming increasingly rare at the top for for guys that are desktop streamers to be the biggest >> for hours upon hours on a daily basis. At the same time,
[06:38] >> Queso, bro, I would say Queso is the biggest desktop streamer. Is there anybody bigger that just streams? Queso is a desktop streamer that plays 99%
[06:51] solo games and never collabs. Like the Faze guys and never collabs. Like the Faze guys share a lot of viewers. Uh and even like does a lot of collab [ __ ] Quaser just like raw streams by himself. I would say
[07:06] Jinx is smaller than Queso on Twitch. I think actually no. I would say Queso is bigger on Twitch and YouTube. I think Jinx is more known, but Queso has a way bigger dedicated fan base. >> They did gain a lot of momentum from the
[07:20] wave of popularity streaming has experienced in the past 5 years. And Lwig is a perfect example. He's a funny guy, but he also started during the early years of streaming when it was really developing in 2018 and benefited
[07:35] from the intense popularity streaming received during the pandemic. But just how much luck and talent played into his success is something he often gets asked. >> I want to know the take that early
[07:47] streamers have if streaming was e do you think streaming was easier or harder then? Like do you think it was easier to be a streamer and become a streamer in like 2017 or now? There's way more viewers but I think there's an even
[08:00] higher influx of streamers. I think it was easier to grow just because there was, you know, more potential to be seen just streaming, but there was also way
[08:12] less people watching. So, it was like you had to fight for those viewers. But now, I think it's like you're [ __ ] fighting an uphill battle, right? You're scrapping for five people in 2016 versus you literally having to be as good as
[08:27] Kaisedat to even get five viewers today. Unless you're [ __ ] able to transfer an audience. about by his fans. >> You see, after streamer games, I met a asking me some random questions, including questions about live
[08:39] "Lwick, could you do it all over again? If you had to start a Twitch channel If you had to start a Twitch channel from the ground up, retire. I'd just retire from streaming. I would just I'm not I'm not doing that
[08:55] I would just I'm not I'm not doing that again. [ __ ] no. Oh my god. It was if what I would do, I wouldn't start over at Twitch. Like I would have to go back at Twitch. Like I would have to go back to Tik Tok, run that up, [ __ ] move
[09:10] that to Twitch, move that to YouTube, and back to Twitch. That's what I did. I did Tik Tok to Twitch to YouTube to Twitch. That's how I grew Twitch was Tik YouTube, and then that YouTube content fueled Twitch. That's what I think
[09:27] modern streamers do. older streamers like Lud, Hassan, Connor Eats Pants, all those guys grew raw on Twitch. >> Then they brought up a good point. I >> The sad reality is that there are many streams where simply nobody is watching.
[09:40] And this leads to a simple catch22 situation. You need viewers to get popular, but you also need to be popular to get viewers. But Lwig figured that it should make sense that if he generated millions of subs before, he should be
[09:54] wanting to be the expert live streamer who doesn't know the answer to a talk as if there I think he could do it." Didn't he do it on YouTube? I thought that he did another experiment where he grew raw on YouTube and it was
[10:09] possible. I think that's easier. If you blow up on YouTube and you know how to blow up on YouTube, you could do it all over again, no problem. It might take a while, but you could do it because you know the method. Like if an example is
[10:21] Jack Doerty. Jack Doerty tried YouTube for five years, right? Wasn't getting for five years, right? Wasn't getting traction. Blew up, figured it out, got his niche, got an audience, doing great. If you if you plummeted him from million
[10:37] to zero, I think he would get back to a million within a year because he would thumbnail at the same on a new account. Was a chat there. But could I actually do that? I can basically go live with any title at all and a few thousand
[10:51] people are guaranteed to show up. So, can I actually live stream with no chat >> I don't know about that. I think if I went live right now, I have 5,000 people went live right now, I have 5,000 people on stream. I think if I went live under
[11:04] on stream. I think if I went live under the title League of Legends, I would get off rip like 4K and it would immediately plummet to like one. Do it. No. Better
[11:16] yet, can I start a new Twitch channel and become successful again? Or was it >> Lewig opened a new account called Retired Athlete 31 and started streaming in the just chatting category, which is the most popular section of Twitch.
[11:30] >> I would say the worst section to grow naturally, though. I think the worst is the most popular section and therefore the hardest section to grow. Once you have an audience, people go there a lot. But dude, there's like
[11:43] right now there's probably like 10,000 streamers in Just Chatting. Am I able to look at that? Like if I go on Just Chatting and look at viewers high to low, you will see that it starts out with like Kai
[11:59] that it starts out with like Kai Hassan, I'm here, right? 6K Doug Doug. Like if you wanted to go all the way to the [ __ ] you would have to f Oh my the [ __ ] you would have to f Oh my What the [ __ ] are some of these streams?
[12:13] You would have to go very far down to find a zero viewer streamer. Like the majority of people in just chatting are already going to be hovering like 10 to 30 viewers. Like you see how many people 32 32 32 29 29 20. Like most Twitch
[12:28] 32 32 32 29 29 20. Like most Twitch streamers hover between like 10 and 30. streamer, you're probably like ranked 10,730th. If you're a 100red viewer Twitch streamer, you're probably 5K. If you're
[12:41] a 200 viewer streamer, you're probably top 5,000. Like, it scales that fast. top 5,000. Like, it scales that fast. Only problem was he was just chatting to Only problem was he was just chatting to himself. This is my chat. Now, normally
[12:53] on my actual Twitch chat, there are always people there typing constantly throughout the day. This Twitch chat has no reason to have anybody in it because zero people follow this Twitch channel. Zero people know it even exists. So, I'm
[13:08] don't know how long it'll take. I don't know if anyone will even come in the somebody in here. >> When Ledwig and what is he going to just [ __ ] just try to grip onto that one guy that pops in?
[13:23] Oh, Fluffball 33. Please don't leave. Please don't. It's a bot. It's a bot stream or some [ __ ] Like that's going to be most of the early viewers you would get on stream is just bots that go into small viewer streams and like promo
[13:39] >> Started streaming in 2018, Twitch had about 3.4 million unique broadcasters on >> really monthly broadcasters 2012. Why was there none in 2016?
[13:51] >> When Lewig started streaming in 2018, >> he started streaming 2018. I thought Lewig was before then. Damn, dude. Oh, is that co? Wow. Look at that. Look at
[14:03] is that co? Wow. Look at that. Look at that [ __ ] spike. 2019 co and then back down. >> Twitch had about 3.4 million unique broadcast. >> Even right now 7 million people stream
[14:16] >> That seems more than I would have guessed. I don't know what number I would have thrown out if you had asked me without my knowledge of that. I million >> average per month. By 2025, this figure
[14:29] was now 7.1 million. So, he was now faced with double the competition. >> Boom. What is up? What is up, y'all? How we doing today, chat? >> And I feel like it's double the competition. I would love to see the
[14:45] it's double the comp, double the viewers? I feel like it's double the comp, 1.5 the viewers, maybe. Maybe three time. I don't know. I wonder if there's more Twitch streamers. I wonder what the ratio is.
[14:59] >> The stream. What's my goal today? My goal is one follower. I like that. That's an achieve. >> One. I hate how Twitch has this [ __ ] I it's like make sure to set goals for yourself. It's like it doesn't help
[15:14] yourself. It's like it doesn't help promote anything. Oh my god. And then they have like now they have like random tickets for like gifted subs and other things that you could have. I they're adding so many weird mechanics into
[15:27] >> achievable goal. All right. When that [ __ ] is complete, I'm a happy man. All right. Well, I'm just going to keep chat up on the side here and I I don't know. I guess let's just start let's just start doing some stuff today. So, first
[15:40] thing I wanted to do is I wanted to bet >> I think just chatting is the worst initial streamer cuz you need a chat to bounce off of. I think you should game. That's my take. you should game or just like do YouTube and other [ __ ] first and
[15:55] like do YouTube and other [ __ ] first and then stream. Like, does that make sense? Cuz if you're gaming, you already have something that you can commentate and react to, like horror games or multiplayer stuff or if you're playing
[16:07] with your friends or it's just so much easier to make content out of that without a chat because I don't like there's so many g there's so many times where when I'm gaming, I'm not reading chat. When I'm doing just chatting, I'm
[16:19] interacting with chat the most. So, it's like if you gapped that, what the [ __ ] I mean, honestly, I haven't been reading chat and I've just been rambling. So, I could do it, but I love like having a chat or two to go off of every, you
[16:34] know, minute or two >> through my daily games. All right, >> the [ __ ] daily Wordle riveting content. After a few minutes, Ledwig got what he thought was his first follower. Oh. Oh
[16:50] my god. I got my first follower. Okay. Wait, are you a bot? Are you a nightbot? Wait, are you a bot? Are you a nightbot? Oh my god. Yes. We're already on the comeup, guys. Oh my god, another follower. Stream Elements. Foobot. Oh,
[17:07] we have three viewers. >> Real human. Newbie Twitch girly loves cosplays. >> Oh, it's an only fans bot.
[17:20] >> follow for future streams and you have an only fans. Why do I get the feeling that you are botting to follow a bunch of new accounts so that pathetic are. >> Twitch, like many other online
[17:35] platforms, has its issues with bots. The company recently cracked down on botting and noticed that on some accounts 5 to 22% of the audience was completely fake, >> bro. And okay, I'm going to have this take on botting and it might be absurd,
[17:51] but hear me out. I think botting is whack. If you bot, that's [ __ ] weird. But I understand smaller streamers botting for the
[18:03] purpose of getting higher up on recommendation pages to get actual viewers to stop botting. Now, if you're [ __ ] already averaging 20,000 viewers
[18:15] and then you bought another 10K, what the [ __ ] are we doing? Right? Like it's different if you're like a 20 viewer streamer and you're botting a hundred so you could [ __ ] you may you know maybe gain 10 or 20 other people and then move
[18:30] them and even then it's just like yeah botting's scummy but I I understand the reasoning behind being a botter if you're a new streamer but if you're already somebody like it's so odd to me that like a lot of the people that were
[18:44] botting were top 500 creators like that's insane. What? Drop 25 to 22% ranging from streamers under 100 CCV to top 500 creators. Like, why are top 500 viewers you average. >> But while staring at a blank screen,
[19:00] Lwig sympathized with the people who did this. you supposed to do on Twitch? viewers could be bots. I mean, statistically, there are bots in my
[19:13] stream. The difference is I don't control the bot. Like there's a difference between me commanding bots to join my stream and like paying for bots join my stream and like paying for bots versus somebody else botting me or like
[19:26] they're just actually being AFK people. Like that's that was an issue on YouTube where viewers were being read that weren't there. So certain streamers were averaging like 50k that actually had like a thousand people in stream. If you
[19:41] don't view bbot, you're just stuck in damned hell waiting for one person to understand why someone would want to. >> Dude, I also got to say you got to get the I I love this take. I forget who the [ __ ] said it, but I'm so going to agree.
[19:57] If you're a new Twitch streamer, get the [ __ ] over yourself on not promoing your [ __ ] Tell your friends, tell your family. Get them to watch you. Even if they turn your [ __ ] on and bag on you, it's better. You know, like there's so
[20:13] stream, but I don't want my friends to make fun of me." I'm like, "Dude, promo your [ __ ] to your friends." You know how much better it is to have like a 10 much better it is to have like a 10 viewer jump start than nothing? Like,
[20:25] having a few chatters makes your stream watchable. Having none is ass. like that. No one if I pull up to a streamer and no one's there, you're
[20:38] like, oh, the chat needs to be spamming, level of interaction. >> Viewbot, I'm not condoning it, but if you view bot, you'll have real people in there because you just appear higher in
[20:50] the category. The rich get richer. Because of the way the algorithm works, streamers are almost incentivized to viewbot. So, new streamers might think >> Oh, I you when I started out on YouTube, I used to autoplay my own videos.
[21:04] and AFK and leave. I used to autoplay my own [ __ ] And not that it did anything, right? But it was like a mental I talked to Chris about this. It was like a mental thing. I was like manifestation. I was supporting myself. Like I used to
[21:19] watch my own videos. Yeah. I would just turn them on and leave and I'd be like I get another view stream viewers and also run the risk of being banned because this is against terms of service. Ricegum was famously banned for this
[21:32] >> bro. Yeah, Ricegum was botting. Ricegum was the [ __ ] jumpstart of the botting community. Like, he was the first guy that was ripping that. >> Go. Lewig soon realized that the just
[21:44] chatting was too broad of a category and he needed to go more niche. He also to bump >> go super niche. Go [ __ ] full on from [ __ ] just chatting to like Sims 2. We hit our follower goal, but nobody has
[21:59] chatted yet. I'm realizing, however, even though just chatting is the largest even though just chatting is the largest category, it is probably the hardest to too big of a category. >> So, let me switch my approach. How about
[22:15] >> your goal is your goal as a streamer is to get right here. >> That's the tab you want to get. And you see like the minimum this is a new burner account that he has. minimum to get here, dude. Sometimes on this tab,
[22:29] viewers. Getting on this bit right here is where you're going to get new people. Madden." >> I play Peak. >> This tactic of branching into games failed. So, Lewig was faced with a very
[22:42] common tactic people use to get attention on the internet. Right before the hour mark, he went for a thirst trap >> or getting front page. Getting front [ __ ] impossible unless you have Twitch raps or connection.
[22:54] thirst trap someone in the thumbnail? I'm hotter. >> I mean, at that point, have like a screen grab of like
[23:09] >> tank top because people are going to see it in the thumbnail and they're going to >> Then you'd grow more naturally. >> Damn, that that dude does look like a retired athlete. He's definitely got the body of someone
[23:23] retired. Two and a half hours into the stream and without a single viewer. [ __ ] thirst trapping? You think this isn't thirst? Oh god, his shoulders are showing. He decided to eat a hot dog as fast as he could.
[23:36] fast as he could. >> The goal is to eat it as fast as >> See, but here's the way that I have this take. He's making content, right? It's take. He's making content, right? It's not like prime time Lwig [ __ ] but like
[23:50] this. You gotta stream as if you're streaming to an audience. He rips this streaming to an audience. He rips this dog. No one's watching. Who cares? Clip some viewers. Might get a viewer. >> Possible. One man, one hot dog.
[24:03] >> Come on. Lucky >> promo. >> promo. I ate a hot dog in what? 64 seconds.
[24:34] >> Oh my god, that was fast. I can do it. >> This again didn't work. So he decided to move to an area of Twitch where >> So he decided to eat another hot dog.
[24:54] rip another one. Like it's not going to make people show Melee. >> Honest to God, it's kind of like showing >> Super Smash Melee, bro. I feel like that's a dead category. I feel like
[25:08] nobody be watching that [ __ ] stop. My chance of getting recognized at a at a Macy's in the mall. If this doesn't work, we'll switch gears again. The streaming on its own is not a way to build an audience.
[25:21] recognized in a GameStop, bro. Who the [ __ ] in a GameStop? Skinwalkers.
[25:33] serious? Who the hell's walking into a GameStop nowadays? 2025. What are you [ __ ] buying? A used version of a PS4 game. >> Twitch is notoriously bad for discoverability and is usually used as a
[25:46] base and not somewhere that you can grow. So had Ledwig done this experiment on YouTube, he might have seen some different results. But for anyone better. >> This is where Lewig actually gives some
[25:58] pretty sensible advice. If I were to really do this starting from scratch, my dog segment. It would have been maybe 30 minutes to 45 minutes total hour tops. And then >> yeah, stream two hours, bro. I saw Ron
[26:13] say this [ __ ] too. [ __ ] think hours, time equals money. No. Time equals viewers. No, it's your content and your marketing. The prime time [ __ ]
[26:26] You see streamers that do variety. Who does variety? Me, Queso, King Wolves, [ __ ] all these other streamers. They stream three to six hours. That's it. If
[26:39] you're streaming 15 hours straight, you're not Summit 1G. Okay? He's been doing that [ __ ] since you were in the womb. Before your parents even birthed
[26:51] womb. Before your parents even birthed you, Summit's been ripping [ __ ] noife you, Summit's been ripping [ __ ] noife streams of hardcore ass games that are impossible to play, right? XQC the same, right? He's been a grinding gamer.
[27:06] That's not modern. I feel like getting big in that category is dead in my opinion. Now, I'm not saying I'm right, but I feel like modernday streamers that
[27:18] but I feel like modernday streamers that get big are streamers that do content that is for entertainment or you're pro. That's like the biggest difference. Entertainment or you're really good at a game. There are some outliers. Jinxy,
[27:33] good at the game, not a pro, still goated, streams Clash Royale for 10 hours straight, but he also [ __ ] lubes himself up, shaves his head, and lubes himself up, shaves his head, and paints himself purple and [ __ ]
[27:46] a bowling and he [ __ ] freaks out in the corner. So it, you know, that's like the corner. So it, you know, that's like he balances that road of or that line. So I don't know. It's just getting big streaming by grinding hours is like not
[28:02] >> I would have made a few shorts of me showing how you can learn to eat a hot >> Yeah, like planning your streams is better than just running some raw [ __ ] Oh, I don't know what we're going to do today. Why don't we play Powerwashing
[28:17] today. Why don't we play Powerwashing Simulator for seven hours? Oh, that maybe that'll get a viewer. >> He has some something else ready for again, max an hour. >> Eventually, Ledwick was forced to trick
[28:30] people into clicking on his stream. >> I'll put exclamation point giveaway in the title. That way, somebody thinks there's a giveaway going on. There's no giveaway going on. >> And this dirty trick actually paid off.
[28:42] >> Okay. Who is this Oscar guy? How do you know what? Oscar, where did you come from? Sorry. Wait, don't apologize. How'd you find the stream? I'm just a fan. How did you find this stream, though? I thought you were AI.
[28:58] though? I thought you were AI. >> I would think the same thing. >> Oh, Bad Player HS told him. Wait, how did you find the stream? Bad Player HS. I saw give away the title. I was like, yo, a giveaway. It worked. Okay, I'm
[29:11] going to tell you guys. I've been live for the past >> for 4 hours. >> 5 hours. It turns out this is not easy >> 5 hours. It turns out this is not easy at all. In fact, this is very difficult
[29:24] and nobody clicks streams with zero viewers or one viewer. This experiment provided a good insight into just how saturated streaming is. But even if a new streamer did manage to overcome this hurdle and build up an audience, there
[29:38] are a number of other obstacles in the way. And this is only the beginning of way. And this is only the beginning of what streamers in 2025 are up against.
[29:51] pointed out that Twitch viewership has basically been on a downward spiral for the past 5 years. This one's overall viewership from Twitch Tracker. It shows viewership from Twitch Tracker. It shows the COVID boom in 2020, the 2021 peak,
[30:04] and the steady decline ever since. 2022 dipped below 2020 2021. 2023 was basically flat and 2024 trended slightly down. now that we're in 2025. don't think the viewership's smaller for known streamers. I think the viewership
[30:20] went down for like other people. During co, bro, people were [ __ ] bored. So, they would go just watch random [ __ ] people, 10 viewer, 20, 30, 40, streamers. They bounce around. They had nothing to do, right? I think the people
[30:35] that have lost from the loss of viewership aren't the big streamers. It's the small streamers. >> Viewership is at its lowest. that like people that were like 150 viewers during co are probably at like 60 now.
[30:47] >> And it was not just the pandemic that generated this downfall. >> It's not the pandemic, dude. It's [ __ ] life, bro. I had nine 10k viewers a month ago in the summer. Now I have five. People are busy, right?
[31:03] Twitch streaming is such a [ __ ] ass like deal because not [ __ ] I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying it's hard to balance because you have to stream when people can watch. And if they can't watch, you get no viewers. Not because
[31:18] your content's bad, but because they just can't watch you. They have work. They have friends. They're going to do their own [ __ ] right? They're don't like you. They just they're only streaming is so hard cuz you can only
[31:33] watch me right now. all the people that are watching me. You might have one listening what the [ __ ] I'm saying, you're only watching me. You can bounce around on short form. You could bounce around on YouTube, right? On Twitch,
[31:46] it's like you have to be locked into one person. So, it's so hard to like the best in their mind or they're not watching you. Nidoninator, who has over 60,000 subs on Twitch, pointed out that after the pandemic, we experienced the
[32:00] destroyed many people's dreams of becoming a full-time streamer. >> A lot of streaming is crowdfunded, meaning that we get our income from people subscribing and tipping. But in this economic climate, unfortunately,
[32:13] whilst there are other ways to diversify such as getting sponsorships and brand deals, those are >> I I agree that especially if you're a smaller streamer, it's harder to get money because the economy is down and
[32:27] spend on stream and you could supplement that with ads and other things. But I think one of the biggest things that annoys me that I see about other streamers is the lack of effort on any other platform. I see so many people
[32:42] just spam Twitch streams and they don't post on YouTube. They don't post on Tik Tok. They don't post on shorts. They go live every day. They go live 40 hours a week. They're doing the work, but they don't do anything outside of that. They
[32:57] end stream and it's over. And that's not how social media is. Social media is a business. You are a business. You're the business owner. You're [ __ ] you're you're running your own business, right? So, if you're streaming, you can't just
[33:09] [ __ ] sit here and be like, "All right, I'm done stream. End stream and download the VOD, send that to an editor, edit yourself, [ __ ] clip figure out what you're going to do for the next stream, schedule [ __ ] right?
[33:23] feel like a lot of people are just like, I'm going to be a streamer. I want to do this. And they only put in the effort for what they thought streaming would be like. And I will always stand on the fact that nineto-fives are harder than
[33:36] streaming. But I think so many people think streaming is just I'm going to play video games for six hours and I'm going to make 100k a year doing it. It's not that easy, right? Like you have to actually try. It's not just like, oh my
[33:49] friends say I'm funny. Let me stream Among Us. Like it's maybe in 2018 or 2020 that would work. Not anymore, right? Like you actually have to [ __ ] >> reserved for people who have quite a big audience. If your cost of living
[34:03] things that you would do is cut off non-essential spending. And supporting your favorite streamer sadly fits neatly into this category. You also need to keep in mind that anything a streamer earns from Twitch is revenue and not
[34:16] profit. Streamers starting off on average will spend about $400 on equipment, not considering the PC. >> More more. If you're a streamer and you don't have Yeah. with the PC. My My first setup cost around like 1,200 bucks
[34:33] first setup cost around like 1,200 bucks total. Mic, camera, PC, monitors, lighting, you know, keyboard, mouse, all the other [ __ ] headset, wires, controller stuff, whatever you're doing. Um, now way more, right? My camera and
[34:49] Um, now way more, right? My camera and my camera lens is probably 5K. My PC is my camera lens is probably 5K. My PC is probably six. The mic's 600. stand monitor's a thousand left monitors 500 and then you know so it's just like the
[35:02] table I had to [ __ ] put together it's expensive right but you're a trillionaire no I'm saying it's a part of the you could write that [ __ ] off too right it's a part of the business but it's like yeah no you you usually scale
[35:15] your setup over time now this is like what I'd run like I don't really have what I'd run like I don't really have any other upgrades I would make but you >> and small streamers earn anywhere anywhere from $50 to $1,500 a month. So
[35:29] >> small streamers make a few hundred a month. 50 to500 mid-tier 5,000 to month. 50 to500 mid-tier 5,000 to 30,000. A mid-tier streamer 30k a month. million monthly. >> Might be a couple of months before
[35:44] people even break even on the cost. And that's assuming they grow. The popular despite receiving quite a lot of money from Twitch, she was actually losing >> Y'all know how expensive it is to keep up with content creation. You can get a
[35:59] up with content creation. You can get a 10K check from Twitch. What the is a 10K 10K check from Twitch. What the is a 10K check? Spend 5K on trips to travel 5. >> That's cuz she's she chose a [ __ ] niche. She chose a [ __ ] niche.
[36:12] She chose a [ __ ] niche. You do IRL. IRL is expensive as [ __ ] I will I will hard disagree. I will say that Twitch streaming in general is one of the lowest cost careers you could do outside of initials fee setup. If you're
[36:25] a desktop streamer, what do you spend money on? Games. Upgrading your stuff. streamer and you have to fly to [ __ ] Michigan, then LA, then San Diego, then Miami, then New York, then Taiwan, then [ __ ] China, then Japan, then
[36:40] Australia, and then and you have to buy a streaming backpack that's $30,000. And you're Yeah. then you're just [ __ ] blowing money. Don't get into that category, though. You know, that's like depending on the category you do is how
[36:52] expensive Twitch streaming is. If you're like a no facecam streamer that just grinds games, you're probably spending like $200 a month on stuff. That's it. electricity bills and stuff, but managing her money and is an extreme
[37:06] example of some of the costs that comes with streaming. But even getting into the Twitch partner program by itself was a huge obstacle. And the percentage of users that get into the program is shockingly low. Looking at Twitch
[37:18] shockingly low. Looking at Twitch Tracker data, there are 6.4 million channels streaming on Twitch every single month, and only 45,000 of those channels are partnered. That puts the percentage of partnered folks making a
[37:31] percentage of partnered folks making a pretty decent income at only 0.7% of live streamers on the entirety of Twitch. Yeah, but being partnered, being partnered means you only average around 75 viewers, right? But it's basically
[37:44] saying that the majority, the majority of Twitch streamers are streaming from >> In a similar ballpark, >> YouTube is difficult to make a like for-like comparison because it's not exclusively streamers. And there are
[37:56] you make money either. You could be a partnered streamer making less than minimum wageers that are simultaneously YouTubers and streamers. But there's still only a small percentage making real money. Less than 6% of channels are
[38:09] in their partner program and 90% of channels are under 10,000 subs. A YouTuber pointed out that streaming in 2025 is having a quote after the gold >> And this happens in all industries. It's happening crypto, cars, Airbnb, etc.,
[38:25] >> that is such a good take after the gold rush. What a [ __ ] analogy for that or relation of sorts. That's so good. It makes sense. I just think that the idea, get into social media, Joe. Any tips on streaming? I'm like, why the [ __ ] do you
[38:41] saying streaming is not the move. But I'm like, do YouTube. Like, if you get more money. You're going to be happier. You could post whenever you want, right? Like, it's just easier. Twitch is so hands-on and it's all active. Like, it
[38:58] Twitch is active rev. If you're not streaming, you're not making money on YouTube. If I stopped posting, I would still make money. Like, yes, there would active posting, but you still make [ __ ] on view videos from two years ago.
[39:12] >> In November of 2024, Twitch experience was known as the Twitch apocalypse, where multiple advertisers realized just how fruitless it was to advertise on Twitch. According to a marketing expert and someone that's worked in esports and
[39:26] streaming for many years, Devon Nash, Twitch is considered a niche product or experimental budget. Most agencies don't know if Twitch ads work or not. So, they assign a small percentage of their budget to see. The rest of their budget
[39:40] like AdSense and Meta. So, >> well, it's that and it's even, bro, like you get the it's just like base ad pay with companies that I like when I did the dying light ad for them and I'm going to do a YouTube
[39:54] for them and I'm going to do a YouTube video, right? Most [ __ ] you do in terms video, right? Most [ __ ] you do in terms of monetary gain for ad like even ad placement like just doing raw ads like a company coming to you and being like, I
[40:07] YouTube video. Stream and a YouTube video. And a matter of fact, you used to get banned if you weren't gaming on Twitch, but it's now categorized into IRL streaming, where someone is out in real life, and desktop streaming, where
[40:21] someone is in front of a computer. IRL streaming has been around since the really become >> who was the first IRL streamer like Poseidon >> mainstream in the 2020s with people like
[40:33] Aiden Ross, Kaisenat and I show speed popularizing this type of content with popularizing this type of content with Kaisenat doing less of in public things as compared to an I show speed. All of these pioneers have changed streaming
[40:46] forever but not necessarily for the better. In 2024, you had Kaisa streaming with Kevin Hart, Aiden Ross meeting Trump, and I shall speak, >> which was so weird. A presidential on either side. I just
[41:01] being like, "Yeah, I'm coming on a I'm coming on anybody's stream." I'd be like, "Whoa, what?" >> But became much more difficult for new something that veteran streamer So Illuminati decided to speak about in
[41:15] August of this year. >> Bro, Twitch is changing. Um, a lot of y'all that's at the top. I say y'all is at the top of the pyramid. Uh, y'all tap out and then you get a chance to look at what's taking place. I was one
[41:29] should start streaming. Not necessarily doing IRLs, but just streaming, speaking do. You know, I feel like streamers is taking over the world and it's happening. But one of the things I do see Twitch is starting to become so
[41:44] overstimulating. They start these new that's coming on there is starting to look at a normal streamer in a different point of view that's boded it's completely different it's trash new streamers in 2025 have a much
[41:58] higher weight of expectations than new streamers in even 2020 IRL streaming is much more expensive than desktop streaming but IRL streamers are getting the most views it's going it's becoming harder and harder for to become
[42:11] streamers because all y'all think y'all need to be doing IRLs y'all all trying to be like these is at the top, >> bro. That is so facts, though. And it's IRL streaming today. We're going to [ __ ] Walmart and they're trying to
[42:24] do that, but I feel like you don't get a dedicated fan base from that. I feel like in general, so many streamers that are up and coming feel the need to do IRL and invest so much money into it.
[42:38] if this is going to hit and you've already input 5K, right? Isn't that crazy? Like already you're going to have to have one of the big biggest expenses going to input, you know, one, two grand potentially into having a setup. And
[42:54] [ __ ] get a setup and an IRL backpack or whatever the camera, whatever you're off, like you have literally just equipment that's useless. Like what are [ __ ] marketplace for the next guy to give it a try? And then even then it's
[43:09] dedicated fan base from that. It's like people that just tune in to see what guys at the top that do IRL have huge dedicated fan bases. Lacy, Ron, Speed, Agent when he does that stuff. But it's like if you're a smaller streamer, I
[43:24] through IRLs. >> Desktop streaming is dying. How is that even possible? It's not even possible. It's just the you watching. And ain't got nothing to do with the groups or none of that. You should already know
[43:39] have to say no name. >> Nobody gonna watch a teen go to Walmart. Bro, I have I've said this before. I think if you want to get into content creation and you're like 13, bro, 14, 15,
[43:51] maybe make gaming content. Yeah, sure. You want whatever content you want to like editing, thumbnail stuff, scriptbased stuff, and like understanding the format just because like you're at a time in your life where
[44:03] you're probably not going to get viewers because you're too young, you know? Like because you're too young, you know? Like it's very rare for a Rakai to show up. It's very rare for like somebody that's
[44:16] 15, 16 to [ __ ] blow up on social media streaming wise or YouTube wise because it's like that that's a time where you can gain a bunch of knowledge and then use that later. Are even a
[44:29] problem for Soluminati. Having taken a break from streaming, he discovered that Playboy Max had rented an entire mansion to do a love show full of other streamers, which placed an overwhelming weight of expectations on him.
[44:41] >> Bro, Shout out to Plat Boy Max. Bro, this returned and did a whole show. How the am I supposed to compete with these? >> And Plaque Boy Max's decision to rent a extravagant than what some of his peers got up to in 2025. Kaisen ad took over
[44:57] an entire university and DDG built his own set from scratch for his show Are You My Ball. The simple fact is that streaming is becoming more and more like TV and as a result is more and more out of reach of the everyday person.
[45:10] >> I don't think it is. I don't think it is. I think it's two separate [ __ ] audiences. I think there's [ __ ] that watch the those guys and then I streamers. I think I'm not saying that they're not Twitch streamers. I'm saying
[45:26] they're like they're cable TV guys. They're basically cable TV. They have their own [ __ ] in integrated sponsors. They have a whole crew. They have a camera team. They're not streamers, bro. That's not what Twitch
[45:39] is normally in people's head as, right? Like, I'm not saying that they're doing They're making great content that they want to make. But it's like I don't think that's Twitch. And this video from so motivated the streamer and YouTuber
[45:54] Lord Hec to give his thoughts as well. >> My life. First of all, in order to do I streaming, the bar is set so high, you damn near got to be doing the I Carly series. If you guys know what iCarly is, um it's basically like a TV web series
[46:11] um it's basically like a TV web series but recorded as a show. So all the activities and things that you see that um that be happening on stream um they're not just happening randomly. They're set up, they're orchestrated,
[46:25] like lowbudgeting acting. >> Yeah, bro. Kai probably got like an earbud in telling him what's going on in the subathon, right? He probably got the subathon, right? He probably got people letting him know what's next,
[46:38] right? Like he it's not just like raw he's doing whatever. Like it's seen as that, but there's so much behind the scenes. >> It's like acting at home. Like if you were to watch F1 the movie, instead of
[46:51] going to the movie theater, Twitch is the new movie theater and the new television, right, for the IRL streaming space. So, in order for a newcomer to come in and and be able to compete when they don't have a budget and don't have
[47:06] as many like crazy moments as the the the next guy, um it's kind of going to be like, okay, um you're boring. >> He also made the point that because important, streamers are basically fabricating clippable moments instead of
[47:21] streaming in the moment. >> So, short form content is necessary, in his bath like four times and >> People are going to be so desperate to make a clip farm moment that nothing's
[47:35] Everything is just going to look like it's for a clip instead of you being present for the stream, right? And that was the problem that I was running with when I when I recently started streaming with as well. Um, and even though it's
[47:49] not that much of a problem, the the like making organic or just streaming without thinking about a moment and just being present in it is like it's damn near
[48:01] >> And we're also seeing something similar that's happened to podcasting where people from other industries are trying to get involved. India Loved has moved from being an IG model to a streamer. Lil TJ and Nicki Minaj are just some of
[48:14] >> bro. And most famous people just do [ __ ] podcasts now. The amount of people that have [ __ ] podcasts is insane. Anybody in your entire life that used to be in Hollywood acting or comedians or [ __ ] they were pro
[48:27] aletes, they have a podcast. They have a podcast. Even if you don't know about It's just like so many people just do [ __ ] some form of random social media that it's like there's so many options to watch anything.
[48:41] The NBA player Kyrie Irving is also trying to make a name in this field, but he has been someone that's been tapped into it for quite a while. And all of these people have much bigger resources and probably much more interesting lives
[48:53] than people starting out. There's a lot of celebrities that are that that that don't need to be streaming, bro. All right. And I feel like IRL streaming it has turned into one of them spaces where you can just get a quick dollar. You
[49:06] know what I'm saying? Um because you got people like Tyla which is she's an African artist Tyla, right? You have people like um there's some other rappers that's starting to stream
[49:18] mind. I think it was Lil TJ. He was trying to stream the other day. I'm just trying to stream the other day. I'm just like bro like some of y'all, no offense, but it's like bro all they have to offer is like behind the scenes of what
[49:30] is like behind the scenes of what happens at a music video. Um like flashy going shopping. like they're not like uh >> they're not [ __ ] entertaining. That I let me just shorten it there. They're not [ __ ] entertaining. They don't
[49:43] another career. They want to [ __ ] stream because they know they can make money in it. And all they can do is [ __ ] yap about behind the scenes [ __ ] what I'm saying? >> So, the barrier of becoming a streamer
[49:56] has become so high now that many new streamers might feel like the ladder has only hope for them now is that someone like an Aiden Ross or Kaisen co-signs from that endorsement. But the reality is that you don't need to be making
[50:11] money from streaming for it to be a waste of your time. Nightonator is a money purely focusing on short form content and being an influencer, but streaming. >> But for me personally, there is nothing
[50:25] like the magic of creating a space that is alive and ever evolving on the internet. somewhere that defies distance. It defies so many different things. It is so magical and incredible and there is nothing else like it.
[50:38] >> And if someone's a college student or someone that's streaming on the side, of people is a transferable skill in almost every career path. But oh my god, for sure. I was saying it made me not too good at conversations but to the
[50:53] point where I just yap like I can I could meet I think I can have a conversation with somebody that has nothing in common with me and I used to never be able to do that. I think I can find something in common with somebody
[51:07] that normally I would never be able to that I'm able to just talk about and and then just ramble. >> Above all streaming is a great way to You'll meet people with common interests, but you'll also come across
[51:20] people that you probably wouldn't be exposed to in your everyday life. And if Ledwig's first viewer was a guy named Oscar. And Oscar is a streamer who of course has the dream of becoming a big streamer, but also just finds the joy in
[51:34] >> In general, I'm a competitive gamer. I play a lot of competitive games, and um I found that doing it with people watching me is way more >> Oh, it makes it more [ __ ] fun for sure. for being able to just game
[51:48] >> doing it by myself. I've been having fun uh meeting new people, learning new things. Um I do reacts, I do uh just variety content in general. I'm just I I just love streaming and uh I hope Yeah. And I think that in general streamers
[52:02] that are smaller have more connections surprisingly. I think if you're a lot of smaller streamers that I've seen know a lot of other smaller streamers than big streamer, you probably stream with like two or three other people. I feel like
[52:17] guys that are are if you're not IRL, I feel like people that are like 50 100 viewers stream with so many other people that are around the same space. that are around the same space. [Music]