[00:03] language. If you think you may be offended, switch off [Music] [Applause]
[00:16] Watch Mojo and another episode of the Inside Mojo podcast where we're looking back at 20 years of Watch Mojo history on YouTube. I'm your host Rob and with me as always is Watch Mojo co-founder and CEO Ashan Carbisan. How's it going,
[00:29] Ash? No complaints. Yesterday, I thought I'd be stuck in New York, which not a bad place to be stuck in, but uh found my way home despite Air Canada trying to I guess keep me out of the country for a while longer. Anyway, all these problems
[00:43] part it's part for the core, especially nowadays. you know, you have airlines that and I get it between personnel, weather, competing for a few gates, you know, and um you know, I think leisure travel is probably setting records and
[00:58] coming. So, yeah, it's like I'm always been very reasonable, but when when airlines do something that is just lack of emp lack of empathy, lack of common of emp lack of empathy, lack of common sense, I was like, "F this." I'm like,
[01:12] "No, I'm like fix this or I'll fix it for you type of thing." and it was resolved. But anyway, well, I think your New York trip is going to tie into the understand. I don't actually know what you're doing in New York, but let me
[01:25] know. And uh we were we're going to talk about basically YouTube supremacy in in video on demand and how Netflix has supremacy in the kind of subscription-based model and what that means for both types of platforms. Sure.
[01:39] So you know I used to go to New York and when I started my career for a lot of people like New York and wherever media singers artists cooks you know
[01:51] criminals escorts New York is the capital of the world right so everybody capital of the world right so everybody has this kind of like view or idea of New York and ironically like before starting watch mojo if my old employer
[02:03] you this position that's open you could have it which was in New work uh I had a career as an executive and been very happy and grateful yada yada but so
[02:15] it's a bit ironic that when I started the company you know one of the reasons why as we've discussed why it was hard to raise venture capital funding yes content at the time was persona non grata um the way we I was going about I
[02:30] content I didn't want to just produce like a thousand videos I was like it's around my principles and my kind of approach that I get it. It wasn't other reasons was they're like the guy and I got this. Let's say if the VC was
[02:44] like, "If there's a problem, I need to be able to just get in a car or walk want to like what I experienced yesterday. I don't want to get on a flight unless again you're like the next unicorn or something. All excuses, but
[02:58] unicorn or something. All excuses, but valid." So, in 2008 and n um Christine uh co-founder and my spouse, uh we actually moved to New York. Like we say like imagine if we spent like 8 months out of 12 we'd go for a month or
[03:12] two come back. M team was smaller and it's funny I loved it like I lived in New York for the other year basically loved it really further grew my network major leagues right like that's where all the pros are in media and but I did
[03:27] like yeah I don't actually need to be in New York because even when I'm here okay there's some other excuse you know the VC doesn't like my you know rugged good looks or something you know there's some reason and it was just like okay it was
[03:40] to all the other reasons And then we also wanted to have our second daughter which if New York's super expensive right so it was just for a lot of reasons I came back put my head down but I would go back 20 25 times a
[03:53] year loved it again I was always very lucky I was like some people for work Kansas that's what my friend was saying and I was like well what do you do in know but I was like what else he's like pretty much that's it right whereas New
[04:07] York tastes great it's also New York is also funny because it is like you When I travel, I'm like, every country has very beautiful people, you know, but New York, it's like the Bapefest Olympics where like the world sends all their hot
[04:21] people there. So, you just see this like I look at your eyes. I thought that was Los Angeles. I I don't know. I never Los Angeles is more uh one-dimensional, like not in a bad way, but lo there's very attractive people, but New York, you get
[04:35] the Olympics. It's like the World Cup. They send their best. It's just Anyway, let's get back to business. So, so long story short, it's not a coincidence that as Watch Mojo took off and I did not need to
[04:49] either prostrate myself to VCs for funding or to quote uh Roger Sterling was it from Madman? Do you know how many hand jobs I had to give type of thing?
[05:01] That's like the world of advertising. And that's the beauty of YouTube. It democratized not just production and distribution. It emancipated mean of course you need funding you need sponsors but you don't really need it if
[05:14] you could just program build a community build an audience so two weeks ago when I was in Rio it was like yeah the last time I spoke at web summit I still had to explain to people the future of storytelling will be video shorter form
[05:28] uh more authentic YouTube people were still like this guy I don't know what he's saying you know but now when I went to web summit yeah it was like everybody body gets it like why am I there to convince people right so it's more about
[05:41] where the world is going is YouTube is television YouTube is entering its golden era and so this week in New York what what was a bit weird for me was yeah this is like a recap I did on context is king that just looks at a lot
[05:56] of stats and data some of which I will touch on so right now it's a very bizarre time for me where all of these things that I was saying and like over things that I was saying and like over and over and over again to creators to
[06:11] join us or to advertisers to work with us or to investors and they all were everybody was just an opinion right and now it's like 180 degree different on YouTube every brand wants to advertise on YouTube every media company
[06:27] advertise on YouTube every media company wants to make up for lost time and so to connect the dots for me it was weird because I was like there was a sense of vindication but I was also Like again when I tell entrepreneurs your journey
[06:40] is not going to be like get rich overnight or anything like that. It's a long ass journey and it took a decade. It took two decades even. Um and yeah so why was I in New York? Uh board meeting and uh again I'm very transparent. So
[06:55] you know earlier on this in this series of 20 videos and I can't believe we're at number 17. I talked, you know, hadn't really talked much about why we decided to bring on a financial partner five years ago. And I said, I go, you're
[07:08] which you will hang yourself, whatever that means, right? So, when you bring on investors, I mean, in a way, it's like if you're a pro alete and you get if you're a pro alete and you get drafted, you have one objective. You
[07:22] have to win a championship for the team that drafted you. Sure, you want the set a record for goal scorer and maybe like you really want to beat some team that you know didn't draft you, but that's all noise. Your only only only thing is
[07:37] to win a championship. So, as an entrepreneur historically, it was you drum. Now, whether you were driven by a purpose or principles or profit, that's up to you. But it was like you basically were independent until you died or you
[07:52] sold your business. But in this era, you generally eventually bring bigg on because investors have created this whole universe of let's go raise money from pension funds. Let's go raise money from wealth sovereign funds and let's go
[08:05] find opportunities of well-run businesses such as ours to basically create value. So five years ago when we brought on our investors I did understand that I was making my bet. you know, I didn't want this to be like um
[08:18] as I said, if the plane goes down and I'm not there, the company will go on, headache. You know, it's like I have an obligation to you guys that you get paid, you know, that like your benefits are are not like uh, you know, run out
[08:31] if we bring on an investor, aside from the fi financial reasons why I would me like we'd professionalize the they're not in it because they care about your product, per se. They don't,
[08:45] passion project for them. So eventually, your job as an entrepreneur is to give them a return. It's to give them a liquidity event. Yeah. Feel like Matthew McConna in um Wolf of Wall Street in that scene with the martinis, but that's
[08:59] decide, you know, you could you could take what's the expression? You can have the cash or the crown, you know, but you could be independent or not. But again,
[09:11] independent, but I have employees. I you know indebted to and responsible for also have investors and I wanted that because I felt it professionalized but transparent but I think it's good advice for entrepreneurs this year well last
[09:26] year in November I started to get other companies inbounding me like what's that mean just emailing you out of nowhere calling you and saying hey we chatted or ash buddy you know drinking buddies or whatever they're like we realize that
[09:40] like you were right like YouTube is the real deal. It is ground zero. It's the front line. We are underinvested in that space and we cannot build it internally. Also, we cannot go buy a creator's channel. We could, but that's risky if
[09:55] the creator bails or just goes screw this. Um, what are they buying? An empty box. So, I started to get like over four just kind of you're one of the few investable or acquirable assets. And I
[10:09] election. God knows what's going to happen. Ukraine, Russia is getting hot. Iran versus whatever is always crazy town. Uh, you know, the Palestinians and along. So, I was like, there's a lot of geopolitical
[10:24] uncertainty. Um, there's talk of recession. So, I was like, I don't think this is the time. And I love my job and, you know, I like being independent. It's a good setup. I my investors don't bother me. But I was like, look, I do
[10:37] have this responsibility to eventually give a liquidity event, an outcome to my investors. And I'm like, it doesn't matter what I think or what I want. It's discussed this. If interest rates go up, you're going to be affected. If there's
[10:52] a nuclear strike, Pakistan and India, same people, different religion. Um, if they decide to go at it and kill each other and destroy the world, like guess investors are like ash we're in year six and seven of our investment and they're
[11:07] great my investors are fine but the sports analogy is I'm throwing the football they're not there on the field like that's not their job you know so and I you know I like that line that I coined once I was like if you give me a
[11:20] give me an army I could build an empire but the reality is one person doesn't change anything and for a company like watch I've said it it's like where were ESPN and MTV were In 1990, we've had a great run. Magical. Started a scrappy
[11:37] gets more professional. ESPN was started by a father-son combo. MTV was a ragtag have makeup, let alone did their own makeup eventually. But then in the '9s when ESPN was part of Disney and MTV was part of Viacom, now known as Paramount,
[11:52] they experienced their golden era because those companies have the resources, they have the team. So, I was just there for meetings and then I got Canada won't, you know, remember some of the things I said. Uh I'm there again
[12:05] next week just meeting companies and it's, you know, it's very flattering. There's like a lot of companies that want to chat. Well, they've kind of we've already chatted. It's it's a dancing. Yeah. Um and I've learned a
[12:17] lot, you know, working with the investment bankers and all that. Um, but it was again very me melancholy where I was like, whoa, I'm gonna be probably selling this business that I killed myself to build. Um, but I'm like, well,
[12:33] this is like what, you know, it's kind of like as an entrepreneur, this is kind of what you wanted. And now that it's here, you're like, hm, how do I feel great. New York's great. It's like best city in the world. So, no complaints.
[12:46] Just happy on the background. Big decision to be sure. Um, Yeah, I mean it must be this is this is something that you started 20 years ago like from the ground up. So there's got to be emotions attached. It is. But the
[12:58] fascinating thing is uh as much as I I like to think I was always mature and professional, we're all kids. Like we're all children. We're all immature, you some other things you need to work on. I'm very glad that I did the deal in
[13:11] 2020 for this reason because I know if I would have just like never sold outside capital, never brought on like outside partners and then sold the business, I saying maybe I could have built the next MTV or the next Viacom or whatever. I
[13:24] would have said like maybe if I would have just brought on partners and they and I got a great team but you need like the war room kind of thing. So I'm glad I did that and what I saw was yeah like at the end of the day money alone isn't
[13:38] the show is about you know it's the authenticity. It's the patience and what I get is yeah you know institutional investors are great. I'm a finance guy. totally get where they come from. And I locked out with like high integrity,
[13:51] high character people. Um, even this week, I mean, I I said this to one of my directors like on the board and I was like, I must say, I go once in a while, we have a conversation and many like lesser men, weaker souls would take the
[14:06] dark side and would show their wrath and react in a way that is either unfair or unprofessional, but a lot of people lack intellectual honesty and do that. And side. Now, again, because I'm a professional, I'm respectful. You know
[14:20] are with you is the way you are with them. It's like there's a mirror dynamic. But I also kind of realized that Ash, don't get cocky just because you see the world going where it's going. And we have such an awesome team.
[14:33] That's also the thing. I do think we have this amazing team and we've really actually demonstrated that we could diversify. I mean, just the podcast you that you do. November, if somebody was like, "Oh, you guys aren't going to
[14:45] guess not. Okay, I'm not." It wasn't meant to be. And then you see that happen working on the show, meaning like getting to know some of the team. I'm like, "This is an incredible army, but being
[14:58] independent and also I'm like impatient. Like I'm very patient, but I'm also know, what's that expression? If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together." Yeah, I could see how if I had access to more sales
[15:11] people, more uh editor, we have all the resources like we are the resources of like content production around video for these platforms. But again, like if I these platforms. But again, like if I had a commercial team to work with, um
[15:26] we could do a lot of damage. Like I see what brands want and I like I always don't have anything to prove to investors or to marketers. But I I like to serve. I like to create value. So, I'm like, "Okay, I'm resigning to the
[15:39] fact even if that means like, okay, I'm not CEO or my title changes or I report to some 24year-old somebody at some company who has the digital video things because in the end, I'm just like an athlete who wants to kick up
[15:55] that's what I wanted to ask. I was I was wondering if this is going to be like to Jamaica or if you're going to stay along for the ride. So, I've said this that you will, okay, how should I word this? Without a day, one day I will walk
[16:11] character in Good Fellas and be like, "Oh, this is the day where like here's your parting gift. Here's a bottle of scotch. Please leave. Joe's now running the company or Dick or Mary." And that's normal. Like, you cannot I also don't I
[16:25] have a big head. I actually don't have a big head, you know? Like, I'm actually pretty chill around like I don't think I'm that special. like is what I'm getting at. And a lot of people could do what I do. Maybe not. I I do like a
[16:37] little bit of everything, but you could replace me if you wanted to. It's not like there's an intangible, but it's not like we're not curing cancer here either, right? But it is perception. So, the funny thing is given that we have a
[16:52] tips. I mean, I'm sure my investment bankers if they see this, they're going sure my board is like, "Shut the f up." But but again like I never had access to this kind of this experience and if it's useful to somebody great. So I feel it's
[17:07] a bit of like reverse psychology. Do you remember what I said that way back when they'd be like should you be CEO or should we bring in an experienced guy? I was like this is the way psychology works. If I say I want to be CEO, you're
[17:20] should be chief mojo or chief this or that but we're going to go bring John Smith who did this or that. Okay. But if I say no I don't want to be CEO. you're You're the company." Where I'm like, "I'm not the company. There's all these
[17:33] other people." So, that's psychology. So, it's the same way that if I were to So, it's the same way that if I were to say, "Yeah, I'm done, man. Mike off, you know, Mike drop 20 years." Okay, first of all, I mean, I'm not that kind of
[17:45] person to just go live and drink champagne and eat oysters and, you know, do be bored. I think I'd be bored very quickly. I mean, I I do a little bit of that and then I'm like, I I need stuff to do. But more importantly, if I
[17:59] were to say yes, I don't want to do a deal. I think the buyers would be like, okay, well, how does that affect the risk profile? And are we comfortable? And then it puts a bit more pressure on my team who's amazing. Like our
[18:13] executive team, you guys, the whole company, there's a lot of talent here. honorable. And I don't think that is the role of an entrepreneur in this like you got drafted by a team, you sign with the team. if when you're a free
[18:27] don't think it would be fair to my investors and to my team if I was like, I'm going to live on a yacht off the Croatian Adriatic Sea and eating a lot of oysters and, you know, partying with models. Like that's just like they would
[18:41] what we thought you were, clearly you're not because that's my right, but that's not the right thing to do. Now if alternatively I was like I'm drawing this line in the sand and you will not have any say in this and I want this and
[18:54] these are my demands and I am the you know CEO for life. They would be like your house. Yes. You know there's a transition period. So I earnestly doesn't change whether you buy the business or not. if I could be of
[19:10] if I could minimize risk and maximize the upside for you, I will do whatever it takes because my like I don't even view myself when we're talking. I mean, you see more and more when we talk about a content piece, I'm I'm an equal of you
[19:24] was a striker scoring three, four, five goals a game for like 20 years. I never thought I was better than anybody else because I understood if the defender the midfield doesn't bring it up, what am I doing just picking my nose, you
[19:37] know, waiting for the ball to come. So, I'm approaching it like that. And I won't lie, I think that buyers are super like happy and relieved because they're like, he also gets it that maybe if down the road we may want to bring somebody
[19:52] that knows how our business the acquirers is structured, but he seems another business. So what am I going to do, you know, and given my kid's age, I can't even go just travel and you know, advising and investing is fun, but I'm a
[20:06] you know, I like to get my I you know, roll up my sleeves and get [ __ ] done. So that's also interesting. Um, and again, like I do think the c the value appreciation of ESPN and MTV in the 90s was staggering. Like what they did like
[20:24] I actually like the thing watch is like okay it's smaller but it's like a really that looks at it is like you guys are really really good. But yeah so this is something I had done for a like a class when I was teaching at McGill. So, um,
[20:37] people like YouTube is like cable and what cable did to TV. But, so Viacom what cable did to TV. But, so Viacom bought MTV for $667 million in
[20:49] bought MTV for $667 million in 1985. MTV was funded only 12.5 million. Um, which is like 12 million more than what we used. And it was actually founded by Warner, funded originally by Warner and American Express. Um but then
[21:04] like at its peak it was worth5 billion dollars. Um now whether or not MTV today is as relevant as it was then is I mean that's not up to me was then is I mean that's not up to me to say but MTV's value basically
[21:19] appreciated in the 90s when it was owned by Viacom and they really got behind it. And again as a historian and media guy like the patterns are pretty clear. you know, there's always a brand um that starts off, but then for really to crank
[21:35] it out, you do need like a commercially minded partner, right? Um so like this whole conversation kind of got started off with how YouTube is at the top of its game right now after 20 20 years. So let's shift back to that and talk about
[21:49] YouTube versus Netflix. Um because before the kind of like recent developments of your New York trip, that was supposed to be the the core of this episode, right? Uh no I mean the the idea is the idea is if you see actually
[22:03] idea is the idea is if you see actually the through line so it's all related right so YouTube and Netflix I think the media and the users kind of put them like as peers or in the same pool because they are sources of information
[22:17] but they are really like just two very distinct things. YouTube is revolutionary, right? If it was a nation with 2.5 billion citizens or users, it democratized production, publishing, distribution. But the reason why it's
[22:32] revolutionary is because it redefined the definition of quality, right? It created this whole new type of celebrity that before was crazy and it was mostly look very different. If you showed YouTube style videos to somebody that
[22:47] before, it would just be like they wouldn't even know what they're watching. And then True View really really changed the game because the power to choose which commercial messages they wanted to sit through and
[23:00] not just what content. Revolutionary. I mean to me it's the most disruptive product of all time. I I really I challenge anybody to tell me something that affects as many people. Like I think Uber is quite impressive when
[23:13] their global backbone, but it's still a taxi service that is just, you know, using technology and certain things. It's super impressive. Uh Netflix to me knock. It's one of the best run companies. There's so much about what
[23:25] Reed Hastings, Ted Sarandos, and others have done there that I look up to, but it's really an evolutionary like play on TV and theatrical productions, right? It's just the same content, but oh look, we're going to basically um you know,
[23:40] make it more convenient. It's the same creators, more or less the same economics. It's it's not revolutionary in any sense. Although, again, I own shares in both these companies. I love them. These are both two of the most
[23:52] impressive businesses. But when it comes to like paradigm shifting, YouTube is it. But the main difference is that there's so much TV ad dollars that are
[24:05] there's so much TV ad dollars that are still being spent on television but with audiences shrinking the ROI the return on investment or even like the per viewer metrics don't make sense for marketers the marketers are like why are
[24:20] we spending all this money on TV especially now YouTube is pulled ahead in terms of uh you know where people spend their time and this was 9% I see
[24:32] last year this week the number is up to 12% for YouTube. So YouTube is going, it's just starting, right? Like all these people are not watching TV, these people are not watching TV, they're online, but YouTube is still
[24:48] they're online, but YouTube is still tiny compared to um what its potential could be. And the reason for that is because advertisers are also like it's a bit of a alchemy, right? It's art and science. They generally just repeat what
[25:01] the Super Bowl. Oh, we're going to run ads in local. Oh, we're going to run this this campaign on on, you know, some news show locally. But whenever there's a shock, whether it's a recession or whether there's like interest rate
[25:14] changes or war or something happens where advertisers pull back briefly, the inefficient thing. At that point, they're like, let's do search, let's do display ads, let's do video. now. So, YouTube is effectively going to grow by
[25:29] YouTube is effectively going to grow by leaps and bounds each year. Uh because right? And there's still an efficiency in TV, so they're going to benefit. So, the the the point was to bring it together that yeah, like media companies
[25:44] together that yeah, like media companies now are in scramble mode. And that an entrepreneur but you're entrepreneurial there are a lot of companies and brands who basically want to be more uh active on uh YouTube and
[26:00] this graph is really really key because for the longest time even though it's a bit of an apples and oranges Netflix which generates money because you pay them 10 bucks 15 bucks whatever it is that you pay them each month that's how
[26:13] they made money whereas YouTube really yes some people have YouTube uh memberships and you know to skip ads or whatever but by and large it's a free adup supported platform but historically YouTube revenues surpass those on
[26:27] YouTube but what do you think happened around co and this has just accelerated around co and this has just accelerated basically co was an accelerator of history what was going to happen to YouTube in like 2025 started in 2020 and
[26:40] YouTube's revenues are just growing so oh yeah so this is just why YouTube won main points, we don't need to go through all of them. I do think Sequoia, their VC being uh just a more
[26:55] risk-taking firm, they invested in Apple, Google, many many uh incredible businesses. YouTube was a lot more comfortable with like fair use and and you know, in copyright content that was uploaded by fans, whereas its
[27:09] competitors, its peers were like, well, we can't let this happen. Um, and then there's like a lot of small things like flash video which where you could embed a video on any page which we take for granted but I mean at the time it made
[27:22] things go viral right. um the Google acquisition which is key for the context already the most successful advertising business in the world but only search. It bought doubleclick which gave it an entry into display and then it used the
[27:37] double click backbone to then really really drive scale and efficiency in video. Um and then legally they fended off anybody that would sue them. When NBC Universal threatened to sue them they said try. When Viacom sued them,
[27:52] they drew them to a stalemate, meaning basically uh Google won. And then Google punted on monetization, you know, with True View was like, "Skip an ad." I'll never forget, I was having lunch with Metacafe CEO, I think Eric Kraenberg, I
[28:06] like, "How's life this and that?" He was like, "Fuck it, be honest." He was like, Just in terms of market share?" He's like, "No." He's like, "Those mofos just put skip ad like an order. They're not even saying like, "Do you want to not
[28:22] see this?" They're instructing people to skip ads. So now brands are coming to me saying, "Do you guys also offer skippable ads?" He's like, "We don't Microsoft, they're like, "What? What is YouTube doing?" So YouTube scorched
[28:35] earth policy. And then it just kind of like outsmarted its, you know, enemies, frenemies. It was nice enough when it had to, but ruthless enough when it needed to. And then ultimately it leveraged the creator uh community when
[28:50] they're very good. I love YouTube, don't get me wrong, but YouTube is very very good to play the platform neutral. We're Switzerland. Look at us warm and fuzzy, need to be. Let me retract that. They're not al-Qaeda, but they are just like,
[29:05] it's a very, very impressive business how they just outclass and outsmart timing, but yeah, here you go. So, this is a this is a deck I always kept like just updating. YouTube is making so much more money than the TV channels combined
[29:21] going to accelerate. And that was the the gist where I was like all these companies that for years were like unsure they got the memo now. And I'm actually impressed by how much they get it and how much they're serious about
[29:35] the platform. So, I'm curious to know what what you think is going to happen shrinking until it disappears or what? Like there was this there's always been streaming services that are coming up now, one day somebody is going to just
[29:48] a package and it's going to be called cable and we're just going to come full there's all but it's like that. Even when I was studying finance in business like, it seems like companies spend like a decade merging, merging, merging,
[30:04] then there's a bit of a hangover and then they spend the next few years divesting and spinning off and killing things and just putting a bullet in and normal. It's just there's always a regression to the mean. So what's
[30:17] happening? It's actually happening before our eyes. First of all, we talk about Avod advertising video on demand visav Netflix's subscription video on demand or SVOD. But the new thing is fast free advertising supported
[30:32] television which is linear TV. So you and I let's say are relatively speaking internet before. We're watching videos, weird videos, grainy videos. But fast is
[30:44] basically more like that traditional leanback experience where you've had a long shift. You're a cop. You're you're a plumber. You're a accountant. You come home. only crazy early adopters are going on YouTube searching, leaning in
[30:56] and pulling content. Most of society, get home, they're tired, they open their beer, they sit on their couch, they just want the content to come to them. But yes, the value of uh the value of paying
[31:11] for that cable fee when you probably don't watch as much sitcoms or drama, news is ridiculous when you think about it online. It's great for quality reporting and all, but man, if something blows up, I'm not going to wait till 6
[31:26] know, you're going to go and be like, what is happening online? So, so long story short, that is what will happen to what you call TV. But really, TV and the internet are just becoming one. And in fact, the internet of things was like
[31:40] the big buzzword like before one of the things before AI and now AI is kind of usurped that. But you are seeing the internet of things. Your car will be a a media machine. Now, is that a computer or is that a TV? Doesn't matter. I
[31:53] might watch something or see something on your phone and you will be able to somehow just throw it against your wall or you just throw it on your kitchen and eventually you're going to have a a some kind of glass like you know shades that
[32:07] whether Amazon nails it, sorry, whether Apple nails it or Facebook with everything they're doing, somebody will figure that out the way Steve Jobs figure it out. And then your your phone, sorry, your glasses will become what
[32:21] your phone is today and many other things. Your GP, like again, I'm walking around when I was in Buenos Cyrus, I was looking down at my phone and I was like, "Yeah, in a few years people are going to be like, you guys used to wander in
[32:33] put on some freaking glasses that not just guides you, but also whispers in your ear or there'll be So that's where we're going, right? So TV and and all this I mean the fastest growing platform for YouTube is the smart TV but that
[32:50] year over year watch Mojo our audience the percentage of TV goes up and up and up. Yeah. So I I think it's just these worlds are colliding to quote George um yeah it's we also have like Neuralink now too. So like it's not even difficult
[33:05] to see much farther into the future where we'll be able to you know I don't want to say it. I would look I am not like usually an early adopter for stuff like that, but if there was a safe way that you could not have like goggles,
[33:20] but just have some of the things that you generally look up and research and all that like embedded in you. It sounds crazy, but I mean the big brother knows everything I do between my mobile GPS and my financial footprint.
[33:36] What does the government or whoever not know about me? You know what I mean? You secret and every, you know, questionable thought that goes through my mind? You know what I mean? Like, who who are we? Who is you
[33:50] to pretend that like, oh, I don't want secure. That game is gone. Like, if you really want to be off the grid, go live with the Amish. Totally. We have this this uh content pyramid from 2006, which I mean it's
[34:05] it's funny to look at the way that it was now with all of the major channels ABC, Fox, and CBS at the top of it. Um I'm curious to know like projecting let's say this was back in 2006, so let's say 2036.
[34:20] What does what does this look like a pyramid of sort of this type? I don't I don't know if we have it but I actually updated this a few years ago where I was anymore because right now Disney blew up
[34:32] its business and they're embracing where so whereas before there was no economic incentive for the super premium guys to focus on the web creating a vacuum for us uh this is now a mishmash but really it's two spheres before you had people
[34:45] it's two spheres before you had people that own content the cataloges like MGM and then you had those that had distribution historically That could have been TV or newspapers. Then it became on the internet the portals and
[34:58] then the YouTubes and all. So these two worlds merge, right? Like Apple produces shows. They may not care about it. It's a rounding error for them. It's more like marketing. It's branding. It's goodwill. And then on the flip side, you
[35:11] also have companies like Viacom, Paramount that only had, let's say, catalog and they would license and create shows for others. And then they decided to get into the distribution game and launch like Paramount Plus. So
[35:23] where the world is going yeah I think as you said neurolink that that path I think we are entering and we already are it's more it'll accelerate I think we are living in like this 36 247 365 era of constant commerce
[35:40] communications content it is it healthy probably not is it uh sustainable does anybody really have a choice you know because at the And you also have like globalization come into
[35:57] never really invested in landlines because at some point they're just like, let's just embrace mobile. Mhm. Phones. So that's why there's a lot of penetration early on like in countries that were emerging because they were
[36:11] way of doing things. Yeah. That's why like when I worked in financial services, I was quite impressed with Canada's tech backbone. But I was like, okay, if you're not in like the main three, four cities, Montreal, Toronto,
[36:24] Vancouver, even if you include Ottawa, Winnipeg or whatever, all of the rest you have to serve them and it is easier to serve them like online than go there and invest in, you know, branches and whatnot. So I kind of
[36:37] also saw that like oh the underdeveloped or the emerging nations these guys are going to be quicker to embrace. So if you think of like Indonesia, we have watch module Indonesia as anecdotally I reference that's a country that already
[36:51] now is like 300 million people but in like 105 years it'll be massive more people will speak English technology becomes more prevalent and I'm not watching watch top 10 list but we will be part of this big wave like we are
[37:06] going to be so I see that I see just more global more connectivity uh more constant constant constant like content consumption, community like also
[37:18] like the interrelated nature. I love it. I get feedback from people all over the world like previous media cos any cos they would have paid millions of dollars to get a
[37:33] disposal. Whether it was the suggest tool, whether it's comments, I would you need a suggest tool. Give me ideas." Nobody ever sends me anything. But I'm like, okay, it's fine. I have the entire universe at my disposal, right? So,
[37:49] super great time. Like, it's such an incredible time to be entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial, but it's also more competitive. You know, I'm not Machavelian, but I'm not. I know saying that makes it seem like I try to be
[38:04] positive. So when I talk to young storytellers, I'm like, look, with this little device, you could be not just a storyteller. You could be a media company. And that's what I want to project positivity. The sky is yours. Go
[38:18] build something even greater than I could have ever imagined. But what's the flip side? Because of the constant clutter and no barrier to entry, it's actually harder than ever. Like when people go like, "Would AI disrupt you?"
[38:30] I'm like, AI could disrupt this if we're a bunch of morons that don't realize we're going to be candid, aren't we the ones that are going to benefit the most from AI? You know, aren't we the ones with the existing production, the team,
[38:43] and the distribution and the monetization built in like by things select, formerly known as Google preferred. So, super fascinating time. And the reason why I say it's all related as a human there is a side of
[38:58] one like me but anybody you could be like resentful. You're like for 20 years not really laugh at you but you're like the Rodney Dangerfield. No respect. You're like people are not seeing what I'm seeing. They're not like giving me
[39:12] that's a human nature. And then you got to shove that somewhere. So you could now be like ah you see I was right. So, I'm going to be cocky or kind of have a actually frank frankly just very flattered. I'm very like humbled. I'm
[39:27] like I'm very lucky because you know watch module could have failed 20 times watch module could have failed 20 times at in at different ways. So this week was like yeah I was a bit like okay so what like it's what's next? I'm like
[39:40] let's how do you get this from where it is now? Like the MTV or the ESPN of 1990. I'm like, how do you get this to the MTV or ESPN of like 96, 98, you know, before the internet came and destroyed cable basically. Yeah.
[39:54] Destroying like that's the thing. The only things that are appearing are internet, you know, whether it's AI, whether it's the internet of things, whether it's robots from the future, those are all things that are actually
[40:07] going to feed into the internet's fundamental strengths. And we're so well positioned. So now I'm just like I just want to relay to the team the opportunities you know and I I said this to the team. I said at this point if you
[40:19] guys are not like embracing all these tools it's not really a technology and ethics discussion. It's just a psychology. It's your insecurity. I'm I became like if I was just going to be a writer on a typewriter well I wouldn't
[40:32] be the writer I am today without the internet and all that. So super super exciting. But I do feel like I also have to just make sure that the team sees and there will be mistakes and you know but I'm like it's just such a great time
[40:46] to be a storyteller entrepreneur and so it was exciting and I to go back next week and you know and I hate to say this because I don't really feel like those companies in fact are selling to us as much as we're talking to them. They also
[41:00] show to us like why are they a good partner and in the end we have the best have to do something. I just want to show my investors that, hey, I'm making if it doesn't make sense, and they're like, we get it. It's your business. We
[41:12] like, we get it. It's your business. We support you. So, perfect deal. Yeah. Um Yeah. The perfect deal, but I know what you mean. Yeah. Exactly. Um I have a get to the poll results uh which I never actually mentioned what the poll is, but
[41:25] we did put one up uh earlier on YouTube, and the results are hilarious because YouTube and asked where do you watch the most content? So, as you can imagine, 80% uh pe of the people who responded said they watch the most content on
[41:39] said they watch the most content on YouTube. Yeah. 19% on streaming like YouTube. Yeah. 19% on streaming like Netflix and 0% for TV and other uh which, you know, isn't probably representative of everybody, but at
[41:51] pulled. I think this was a bit self-fulfilling prophecy there. In hindsight, this maybe was not the most uh you know uh like what will this lead guys What's your favorite fast food restaurant?" It's fine. It's fine. But
[42:08] think, you know, a lot of people do uh do watch YouTube increasingly. Um, and yeah, streaming is right there, too. And and I wanted to ask before about live sports because that's been kind of like, you know, the the last stand for for for
[42:23] live television or television in general is live sports. But now Netflix is getting into the live sports. YouTube has live sports. Amazon is showing hockey games and things like that. Um, so is that that must be a major blow for
[42:37] television as well. I mean, look, it's a major blow for sure. Sports rights did think that again, if you go back to what I said about the globalization, um, like who are those banana the baseball thing? You know, there's a
[42:51] team. It's kind of like baseball, but it's not really baseball. I don't know what you're referring to. It's basically like the Harlem Globe product. Savannah Thank you, Savannah Bananas. So, at first I saw this, I was like, "What is
[43:03] this? Like, what am I watching?" And then my colleague Derek on Twitter Harlem Globe Trotters." And right away I go, "Oh, I get it. It's more say. Let's sports." But then I was like, "Yeah, this will introduce a lot of
[43:16] kids." So, you also have to understand that between globalization, that between globalization, uh, just more access and 247 entertainment, there's going to be enough things to do. But I admit that TV
[43:30] companies that were slow to embrace technology and the internet, they made their own bed. They made their own bed. Like nobody told no disrespect to Paramount, Viacom, whatever, but nobody ever told them sue [ __ ]
[43:46] Google. Nobody like it's like you decided to go sue them and then when I a lot of people there. It's one of like the companies I look up to. I mean MTV was an inspiration. But I'm like I would go meet them and they would be like well
[43:59] have some content on the platform but like since we're suing them this and morons. Like what do you want me to say? You know, it's like like you want to ask punch her in the face. Like it's just it's you're not even going to punch
[44:12] they did. Or like I mentioned, like no disrespect to Bell Media, they had the rights for like on TSN Canada's ESPN. They were like, "We should embrace if we put our our our content on Facebook, would we legitimize them?" And
[44:27] even the Bell employees were like, "You think Facebook is waiting for Bell Bell. Like I'm a client of Bell. you know, we were years ago we were though they themselves were like we're kind of a dinosaur. I'm like don't talk
[44:40] you're leading in innovation. I'm like I could be in the middle of nowhere in like it's a media company. I'm like you're one of the bigger media companies. It's again everybody's insecure to that sense. But my point is
[44:52] I'm like nobody forced you to do something or not do something. And it's companies to embrace technology was today but the second best time is tomorrow, right? Um so yeah. So I just I think the sports thing is a bit
[45:07] overblown because there is interest in poker which is not really a sport but you know chess so there'll be enough to entertain people but yeah there's no god you know I'm not religious but god did not say I know the 11th commandment is
[45:23] thou shalt not have access to sports because this goes to traditional terrestrial TV you know it's just like it's a competition if you guys are good if you guys have the money go for And then finally, I also think that it is
[45:36] also possible that the big platforms like Amazon and and others, they may eventually move on. I don't think they will move on. I think they will see the value of sports. Um, but I also think they may not see the ROI. The way to
[45:51] their credit, Netflix, Ted Sarando said it. He said, "We will maybe do like the they're doing WWE, but he's like we may do shoulder programming around like the the sports rights. You know, whereas Amazon also, they did a tremendous job
[46:06] with their hockey broadcasts like in terms of quality and all that, but they may never feel the need to have every game. So, what will also happen is fragmentation and that's the younger generation will live with that whereas
[46:20] generation will live with that whereas like our crew and older finds it annoying for the consumer. It's so annoying. When I was in uh Buenos Cyrus, it was hard enough. I had to like download a VPN and even though I'm a
[46:33] paying client of Bell and multiple services where I could in Montreal watch them. I was like, I don't even know where this goddamn game is on tonight. You know, that's the first thing. So, it's fragmented. And yes, there will be
[46:45] again like a regression to the meme. There will be bundling, but at the end, we just have more content, right? It's like somebody complaining that like the lounge at the airport doesn't have their favorite vodka. Like, dude, you're in an
[46:57] airport. Just don't complain, you know? So, yeah. Well, on this note, talking about television, next week we're talking about can Legacy Media make a comeback? And I guess this extends to a lot of the companies that made their
[47:10] networks and stuff like that, who have presences on YouTube and other platforms should be a good one as well. That should be good. Yeah. I think what I'll do for that is I'll kind of bundle it between let's say the traditional print
[47:23] Times, LA Times. And then I'll do like let's say the TV networks, cable, whatever. And then we'll give them like a report card like so we'll look at like Comcast done, you know, NBC, what has CNN done. Um yeah, and then I could even
[47:38] think of like certain executives that I felt really really like transformed businesses that could have died. Um, you know, there are a lot of successful thing that when people are like, "Oh, old media is dead." I'm like, "Yeah,
[47:51] you're a [ __ ] I don't think old media is dead." It's different, but it's the future's in their hands. They still have all these resources. It's like I and I'll land on this. As I say, the glass is the glass. You choose if it's half
[48:04] full or half empty. We have more resources than any other like creator, cohort group. So, and I'll bring it all together, but it's not money. Like, we have investors
[48:19] that could put up more money. The key is it's that desire. It's that patience. to tinker. And whereas before you had a bunch of MBAs sit in a boardroom and make a decision about which brand to launch. Yeah. Now, it's a bit more
[48:34] personal. It's a bit more humane. It's a bit more authentic. And those are areas that I think play well to our strengths. And it's just it's it's I know that it's contagious, but um it's the greatest time to be a storyteller entrepreneur.
[48:46] Like I just that's as simple as that. Um but yeah, but you got to wake up and produce the content and you know, take the heeds, but it's the best time ever. Absolutely. Great note to uh finish off on. Well, have a have a great week.
[48:59] maybe we'll get some updates on that next week. And next week, I think we should also do the show on Friday for the same reason because Thursday I'll be busy. returning from. All right, sounds good. So, everybody, meet us back here
[49:13] next Friday for another one, episode 19. We're coming close to the end. I don't know what's going to happen next, but I have I need fireworks something. I got to plan a big big uh Anyway, we'll see. All right, take it easy, Ash. Cheers.
[49:25] All right, take it easy, Ash. Cheers. Bye, everybody. Bye.