---
title: 'Xaryu Reacts to the WoW Forever Dev Interview'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=OFdvynfvaQk'
video_id: 'OFdvynfvaQk'
date: 2026-09-16
duration_sec: 3532
channel: 'Xaryu'
---

# Xaryu Reacts to the WoW Forever Dev Interview

> Source: [Xaryu Reacts to the WoW Forever Dev Interview](https://youtube.com/watch?v=OFdvynfvaQk)

## Summary

The video covers an interview with the WoW Classic and WoW Forever team at BlizzCon, focusing on the announcement of World of Warcraft Forever, a new third pillar of WoW that offers a fresh start at level 1 with no catch-up mechanics. The creator discusses key features like horizontal progression, new content, and community feedback, emphasizing the game's appeal to new and returning players.

### Key Points

- **WoW Forever Announcement** [00:12] — The creator attended BlizzCon to play WoW Forever and interviewed the team, including software engineer Nora Mills and associate production director Chloe Stone. The beta starts November 4th with a 5-day demo available at BlizzCon.
- **Launch Details** [01:20] — WoW Forever launches in seven weeks on November 4th. There is no catch-up mechanic, and the level cap is 60. The game emphasizes the level 1-60 journey and the people you meet along the way.
- **Leveling Experience** [02:53] — The game enriches the leveling experience with nine new dungeons, new zones like Riverglades, and a campfire system. Endgame content exists but is not the sole focus.
- **Beta Progression** [03:05] — Beta starts with a level 20 cap, raised to 30 after a couple of weeks, and stays at 30 for the rest of beta. At launch, everyone starts fresh at level 1, ensuring no one gets left behind.
- **Transmog Toggle** [04:11] — Transmog is optional and can be toggled off for individual players, preserving the classic experience for those who prefer it. The team landed on this as a middle ground to satisfy both audiences.
- **Horizontal Expansion** [05:06] — The plan is to stay on Azeroth and expand horizontally, exploring unfinished or unused zones from the original development. This allows players to take breaks and return without being left behind.
- **Controller Support** [07:55] — WoW Forever introduces official controller support, similar to Final Fantasy XIV. The creator tested it and found it intuitive, though they prefer keyboard.
- **Third Pillar** [10:23] — WoW Forever is positioned as a third pillar alongside Classic and Modern WoW. It is designed for new players, returning players, and classic enthusiasts, with a focus on player agency and the journey.
- **Legacy System** [10:35] — The legacy system rewards players for creating new characters and embarking on new journeys, with points and perks that influence subsequent playthroughs. It encourages trying different races and playstyles.
- **No Boosts or Tokens** [17:33] — There are no plans for WoW tokens or boosts. The team emphasizes the journey and earning your way up, with a $15 monthly subscription and $30 for new races as the monetization model.
- **Zone Selection** [20:14] — New zones like Riverglades were chosen to fill gaps in the classic leveling experience, feeling authentically classic. The team also considered player expectations and surprises, like the Sky Elves race.
- **Transmog Debate** [24:33] — The creator discusses the pros and cons of the transmog toggle, noting it fragments the world slightly but is a net positive for player engagement and longevity.
- **Future Content** [32:42] — The team plans to stay on Azeroth for the foreseeable future, expanding horizontally into unfinished zones. They aim to keep the vanilla feel and storytelling grounded in the original time period.
- **Storytelling Approach** [36:36] — The team works with lore experts, including Chris Metzen, to ensure new content feels authentic to the vanilla era. They focus on grounded stories that could have happened during that time.
- **Community Feedback** [44:44] — The creator highlights community complaints about the Sky Elves race, the retail-like UI, and server ticks. These are the top three criticisms, with the UI being the most common.
- **Server Ticks Explained** [46:54] — Server ticks are a classic WoW mechanic where energy and mana regenerate in bursts rather than steadily. This adds a skill gap, as players can time abilities like ambush or evocate with ticks.
- **Content Volume** [51:44] — WoW Forever includes a thousand new quests, 600 new prop items, nine new dungeons, and two new raids. The team's ambition is high despite being small, and they are proud of the content delivered.
- **Delivering on Classic Plus Vision** [55:52] — The team delivered on the original Classic Plus vision: vanilla gameplay and world without the Dark Portal. They aim to continue this indefinitely, as long as players want it.

### Conclusion

WoW Forever aims to provide a fresh, inclusive experience for all players, with horizontal progression and a focus on the journey. The team is committed to listening to community feedback and delivering authentic classic content that can be enjoyed for years to come.

## Transcript

Let's check this out. This is 30 minutes. Guys, this is an interview we haven't seen from Destin. And he sat down with Clay and Nora, it looks like. So let's take a look.
The entire reason I headed down the blizzcon yesterday was because I wanted to play World of Warcraft Forever. But in a surprise turn of events, I also got to talk directly with the WoW Classic and WoW Forever team,
including software engineer Nora Mills. You might remember her from being on stage. and associate production director, Chloe Stone, who was also on stage. And I got to talk to them all about bringing this game to players like myself
who feel like they missed out, but now have an opportunity to jump in as early as next week when the beta drops. I'll see you in-game on November 4th. Beta starts this Thursday, and you can play the demo here today.
Have a great BlizzCon, everyone. Bro, that was such an insane moment. Like, all of these BlizzCon announcements, and they're saying a bunch of nothing forever, and then they drop this. And it's like, Classic Plus, November 4th, Beta 5-day demo, now go.
It's just like, oh, shit. It's like, oh, my gosh. You can play the demo here today. Have a great list, everyone. And, of course, in November, World of Warcraft Forever will be there for everyone to start at level one.
World of Warcraft Forever launches in seven weeks. On November 4th. There is no catch-up mechanic. There's a level cap at 60.
And it really feels like a new game where I'm not going to be lost or left behind as a new wild player. And that is incredibly exciting to me. The journey is so important. And you play the game, or you get better at the game by playing the game.
And it's all about that level 1 to 60 journey and the people you meet along the way. And that's why, as Nora said, we've implemented these systems to really reinforce that. First, I love that. this is such a foundational pillar
because, yes, raiding is fun. You know, yes, the pre-biz grind is fun and getting in there, but so much of Classic WoW for most players is leveling. We've already covered that,
but what I was going to say is like nine new dungeons. It's not that they're just adding a raid at endgame and more stuff to do at endgame to continue Classic Era, but instead they're enriching the leveling experience
with things like the campfire and dungeons and more zones, well, leveling. Like, leveling zones, right? Like, Riverglades or something. Of course, there's endgame stuff, too. Like, Heistler, I think it's an endgame zone.
And, of course, there's endgame content. But I love that it's not just endgame content. They're putting in a lot of stuff for that leveling experience. It's very nice. Let's talk about the interview, and then we'll talk a little bit about what I learned during my hands-on session.
The big takeaway for me from my conversation is that this game will specifically make you earn your way up. Every player starting at level 1, even after the beta sets a nice even playing field,
given the crazy good players an opportunity to grind their face off in the beta, hit level 20 quickly, then grind to 30 once that level cap is increased. And it sounds like everyone will reset at launch day, meaning no one gets left behind
and the best players can get ranked up quickly. and then a couple weeks in, we're going to raise that. That'll go up to 30, but we're going to stay at 30 for the rest of beta. And then when we hit launch day, that's when everybody's going to start fresh.
Everybody's going to start from level one. But someone like myself can take my time, level up at my pace, and enjoy this new World of Warcraft entry. No WoW tokens to level, no dark portal that'll leave me behind, plenty of new areas to explore and classic areas to find new tips and tricks in.
I love that. I also like that they landed on something I think works really well for transmog animations and giving me the option to choose what I like the most. I'll own up to it. Like, I was somewhat of a naysayer. Like, I was, you know, I don't want transmog, you know, in my classic type of mindset.
And what, through our discussions and through our kind of like planning, like, what if, okay, well, what if when you turn it off, it turns it off for, like, for everyone, for you, you know what I mean? Like, what we ultimately landed on for those on the team who weren't, you know, interested in having it on, when we were like, okay, actually, given that this isn't going to disrupt my experience, I'm still going to be able to, like, glance at you, see what you're wearing, and like, oh, okay, you've got some skill.
You've earned, you know, these certain armor pieces. It's one of those things that we sort of warmed up to it and decided, you know what, where we landed hits the sweet spot. As a huge fan of the classic book, I'll be putting that on 100%.
And looking forward, the big question I had was, what happens in two years? What happens to keep all this fresh? At least for the foreseeable future, our plan is we are staying on Azeroth.
I mentioned when I said it that we are going to be expanding horizontally, and that means exploring the unfinished or unused zones that the original development team maybe simply never had the time to build,
or these different places that players had built up in their minds about what Classic Plus means to them. I like the idea of a game that I don't have to live in, but a game that also has enough options to keep me engaged
should I want to no-wipe it for a week or two. So that is great stuff. Look, I'm going to post the full interview in this video after this recap, but there was also a panel going on, literally as I'm writing this and reading this,
with more details about WoW Forever, so more stuff is going to be coming out in the days to come. And on the hands-on time, I dove into the basics, visual options, a quick look at the different... I think he said a week or two, because there's a lot of players,
I'm sure a lot of people listening, that do that, right? They don't play WoW for a while, they have real-life stuff they would like to, but they don't have the time, and they want to come in and just, like, full send for a week or two.
and then get back to real life for a while, and then full send for a week or two, and then get back to real life for a while, and then full send for a week or two. I don't want to... Okay, why is this a conversation? In a horizontal progressing game, this is possible.
Because when you leave for a while and come back, you're still the level cap. Your gear is still somewhat usable. You're not completely left behind on a completely different continent of, like, you're irrelevant.
No, you can actually do that. yes, you're going to be a little bit weaker, you're going to not understand the metagame, maybe you have to swap your talents and this and that, but you're going to have some foundation to just pick it back up and get into the stuff where you left off at, and it's not going to be a big deal.
So that's why he said that. That's why he said that. This is a big pro to RuneScape. With RuneScape, it's a game that horizontally progresses, and you can take a break for a year and come back
and pick up right where you left off and continue. And in retail, if you take a break for a year, you can't do that. It's like, okay, well, everything I did before doesn't really matter. My whole gear set is completely out of date and I can't really do the rate I was doing because now there's two new ones
and I have to get couch-drip gear to even start the new set. You can't do that in a vertically progressing game. So his point was a good one. Hopefully that makes more sense now. But that's the whole horizontal progression of our two minutes.
You want to be able to set it down and then pick it back up and then set it down and pick it back up. That's the whole point, right? Is that your progress matters, right? Classes and what it's like playing on a controller in the new staging area.
On that, I prefer keyboard, but since this is the first official controller support, I just had to try it out. And as you can see, it's very similar to the Final Fantasy XIV controller support.
You can pull the trigger or left trigger to execute elevated commands. You can pick up loot with X on the Xbox controller, and it feels very intuitive. Look, I'm not going to hide it. I am an absolute newbie when it comes to World of Warcraft.
I'm not going to pretend I know everything or even the basics. People have had so much time, and they know so much more than I do about this game. But there's something really exciting about Forever that I think the community is really excited about,
and it gives players like me a chance to dive in. I cannot... Well, that's important. I was just talking to someone over the weekend at the con and I was saying, like, this is a good chance to hop in if you've never played
in the sense that, like, it's not crazy complicated to pick up in terms of, like, this, like, retail complexity, right? It's kind of, like, classic. And everyone's starting on the same playing field, right? It's actually the perfect time to start WoW if you never have.
It's also a really good time if you're a classic enjoyer to play what we've wanted for a long time. It's also a good time for a recute. It's a good time to play forever. Okay, very good. Not wait for next week.
All right, here's the full interview. Let me know how I did and if I missed any juicy tidbits in the comments below. I am so excited about WoW Forever. So I missed World of Warcraft original like back in the day, right?
I was gone when I played Final Fantasy XI because I wanted to be different. That's another good game. I want to be different and edgy, but I miss out on World of Warcraft. And while Warcraft becomes long, you know, the past Wrath of the Lich King, the iconic moments,
and Burning Crusade and all the moments happen, what do you feel like is, with WoW Forever, what is really going to set it apart and get people like me, who are super excited to be there at the start, that fresh beginning?
I would say it's like, I mean, already kind of, its sheer existence, its freshness of its launch, like it's already a fresh beginning, right? But also I think the way that we're trying to communicate what it is, right?
It is a third pillar. So there's classic, wow forever, and modern, right? And so you don't have to have played classic. You don't have to have played modern. You don't have to have played any version of World of Warcraft to be able to kind of jump in and embark on a journey.
And many of the changes, systems, the stuff that has gone into wow forever has gone in with player agency and the journey in mind.
Such that, like, we have, you know, we thought about racials, we thought about, like, we implemented the legacy system, which allows you to spend points and gain perks in ways that will influence your next playthrough.
So you're being rewarded for spinning up new characters and embarking on new journeys from fresh, right? More racial. Oh! There we go, there we go. That's how we do it. Right, yeah. I saw it in the presentation a whole way.
All right, all right. So each race in World of Warcraft tends to have, like, unique things that they're good at. So, like, I tend to play Night Elves, and, like, you know, they have, like, Shadow Melves, so you can kind of, like, I'm running around through the world, and I'm like, oh, well, I'm going to, you know,
maybe I want to go to ASK with the rest of them, but I don't want to, like, log off or something. I'm going to go up against, like, a tree or something, and I'm going to hit Shadow Melves, which causes me to stealth, right? So you don't get an FK. Yeah, I do that a lot.
Or, you know, like if I'm in an environment where there's enemy players, like I might be like, oop. Okay, so I think a lot of us might know what racials are, but the third pillar point is a good one to chat about, right?
You have modern wow. You have classic wow. Now they're committing themselves to having forever as this third thing.
It's not quite classic, obviously. It's a different timeline, and it's not modern. So I made the copium take, right, years ago.
Like, maybe it has only been one or two years ago that I think if done right, Classic Plus could be bigger than retail. And everyone laughed me out of the room like I'm the biggest idiot they've ever seen.
Am I still an idiot? Be honest. You can say yes. I'm no like yes no I mean it seems a little more sport now like maybe I'm still wrong but I think a product like this really might like might just appeal to way more people in the long run
to where like five years from now like forever could be the main thing that people are playing it for someone like this who's never played wow do you think he has a higher chance of playing
forever or retail? For people that are long-time WoW players that quit retail, do you think they have a higher chance of going back to retail or trying forever? That's my point. That's my point. That's why I'm saying in the long run,
I really think it could do insane. I think it could literally be bigger than retail. I'm not kidding. With poor decisions, with WoW tokens, with boosts, with bugs, with bots,
with this and that, maybe it sucks. like so but what I'm saying is the potential is there for this thing to be massive right and I said that a year or two ago and I got completely laughed out of the room by everyone but it's like
well I don't know man I don't know how crazy that is it has more potential for the returning player it has more potential for the player that's never played behind you know um or hiding Emberson
and so like the the racial abilities that each each race in world of warcraft has um has has kind of like it's evolved over time throughout the years up and leading up and through like modern
right um and in classic uh they're quite distinct there's there's been a lot of chatter about like oh what if you know we tried to even the playing field and like give you know you can pick and
choose which racials you have, but, like, in Forever, we want to reward that, like, give you a reason to bring a different race with you to your journey, right? We want to reward you for, or, like, encourage you to want to try the racial perks for a
different race. You know what? I'm going to try Undead, right? I'm going to, which Undead can cannibalize corporate. Kind of creepy, but, you know. It is awesome. so it's one of those things
that like it's giving you sort of more options to influence what kind of journey you have and we want players to want to embark on those journeys because along those journeys are the opportunities you have
to meet your next best friend. Or like a bunch of my longtime WoW friends attended my wedding last year. You know what I mean? The connections people make with World of Warcraft are just so true and so genuine. And we want to encourage that through what we build.
Okay. That was a lot of words of talk. Sorry, I kind of threw it off. But if you want to tell me more about why you're excited. You know, it really represents, it's a fresh start. I mean, at the end of the day, it's a fresh start. It's taking this game, this beloved game that many people know and love,
and a return to being the humble adventurer. You know, the classic series of games that we've worked on has gone in a direction, and the modern game has gone in a direction, and there's world-ending threats and a ton of lore.
And where we're starting from is where we started from back at the beginning of World of Warcraft, and we are living in that simple, humble, adventurer, vanilla time frame where the journey is more. Dude, we got to send a quick glaze real quick.
The Season of Discovery team, the classic team, has been pretty darn awesome. I'm not talking everyone at Blizzard. I think they have people above them, this and that, big corporations, blah, blah, blah.
You guys know the drill. But these guys, Josh Greenfield, Claystone, Kim Jones, Nora, Anna. These guys, like, it's such a great little team, right?
It almost feels like a little micro company within a larger company. They have just done a good job, all right? A quick little glaze, all right? I mean, these guys, I feel like are, you know, classic players.
I feel like they have, like, a little, like, they're trying to just get us what we want. And it clearly shows, right? They're, like, they're trying to do these things. Of course, not everything comes through, but they're trying to do these things with the journey, with the horizontal progression.
Like, they're clearly listening. We'll see if it, like, works. We'll see if we, you know, hopefully the game is good. But it's a quick late. I just had to, man. Like, it's been cool. It's been cool following it since dawn, you know.
More important than the destination and the world is the main character. And it looks like on the roadmap, beta will take you to level 30 and then we'll go all the way to 60 after that. Is that right? Yes. So when we start beta, we will actually be starting with a level 20 cap.
Okay. And then a couple weeks in, we're going to raise that. That will go up to 30, but we're going to stay at 30 for the rest of beta. And then when we hit launch day, that's when everybody's going to start fresh.
Everybody's going to start from level one, and that's when the journey, the real journey, all the way up to level 60 will occur, which means all the content that we've added from level 30 to level 60 will not have been experienced yet. Okay. And in the store, you know, if I sell my second character, how do I catch up?
Can I buy a token or something? So no plans for anything like a WoW token or a boost? What do I do? I mean, the journey. I hope they stick to this in the long run, man.
Never a boost, never a token. No plans for it, okay? Like, there's going to be no token, no boost. I love it. I hope they stick to that. But like, yeah.
What's the monetization model, right? You have $15 a month for a membership fee. If you want the new race, $30. Down the line, you know, the level cap's saying $60. I don't know if they're going to sell expansions.
Maybe the monetization model is continuing to do more races for $30 each and $15 a month for sub. I hope it stays like that and nothing else. No shop.
No booths. No tokens. I would like no mounts. I would like no cosmetics. We'll see what happens. It really is what the game is. I mean, the end game is amazing. As we said on stage, the end game is epic.
It's awesome. And all the stuff we've done at end game is amazing. But the journey is so important. And you play the game, or you get better at the game by playing the game. And it's all about that level 160 journey and the people you need along the way.
And that's why, as Nora said, we've implemented these systems to really reinforce that. There's some players who just love that journey and the experience that they have and all the new content that we've added from the finding places on that journey.
Nora, in your presentation, I feel like the legacy system is a really good idea, but I feel like it needs work. Like, I love the idea of incentivizing leveling alts, but the talent starting at 5% or 10% feels like way too strong.
and I feel like some of the challenges aren't, like, unique enough. I think what I want is, like, a way to level in, a reason to level in alt in a new way for some tiny little thing that just,
that shows that I did it, you know? Some tiny little token of, like, I did this little unique challenge and it was cool, you know? And that's all I feel like the legacy system needs to be.
I don't know if it needs to have an incredible amount of character power or make you feel like, oh, I need to level a bunch of alts to get more of these points to make sure that I'm up to date on all these things. I don't want to be that, right?
So hopefully there's some fine-tuning on the legacy system. Like I said, I like the concept a lot, but it's the implementation that needs to be kind of fine-tuned here. And you took us through the different zones, what level are appropriate for those zones and how to level up there.
as somebody who's not as familiar with why they're important or noted tell me a little bit more about why those zones were chosen and how you landed on them in different areas as the new areas yeah so one of the things we tried to do with wow forever is like there's sort of like you know we have a
classic audience who's deeply familiar with the classic ethos the more sort of uh what areas of the world have not yet been explored and what's you know kind of and and everyone's kind of had their own hypothesis as to what they expect us to do, right?
And so we talk about kind of like, okay, well, what are the things we are super expected to do, right? What are the things that we're maybe, you know, a little bit expected, but like maybe we add our own little twist, and then what are the things that we add that are potentially
like unexpected, right? And the unexpected maybe would have been the Sky Elves race, right, as an example. um the river grades i feel is one of those things that like there was that you know kind of a piece
a chunk of snap that like hadn't really been filled out there's room there and there was an opportunity to sort of like give you uh something to do other than you know spam you know the monastery really uh but like something that allows you to kind of uh explore more of that
classic world um deeply rooted in like i remember folks internally playing through the river glades and giving us the feedback like holy smokes it feels like it was in classic the whole time right
and so like uh we want to make sure that uh what we build makes it it's congruent with what uh should belong in classic what would make sense what people would expect but we also want to surprise and delight in certain cases uh like yeah i think the chandelier was probably the
biggest surprise. Yeah, definitely. Am I saying it right? Send a ray? Send a ray. Send a ray, okay. And another thing that I would add to that too, for folks who have played the original version back then, there were certain points where that original team kind of ran out of time.
Yeah. And so in the leveling journey, there's gaps in content that would happen. And this was really an opportunity for us to build things that felt authentically classic and authentically vanilla and fill out the spaces in the future. People in my chat
were saying that some of the areas people would glitch into and they would have worries about them. Is that true? Back in the day, like way back. They were glitching the streets. Like Old Iron Forge, underneath Stormwind, like glitching, I don't know, like above or like under Orgrimmar or like above the Auction House, like all these different spots.
High Shul, GM Island. Yeah, the STD Tiger area. There's a place, I don't know if you guys remember, it's like in between Barrens.
It's like you get to, like, these zones in the mountains where there's, like, a bunch of nothing, and you can just hang out there and duel your friends. I remember I spent countless hours there just, like, climbing up mountains and glitching in these areas and then just hanging out all day.
But, yeah. Oh, Ironforge Airstrip. Oh, top of Ironforge, the airstrip on the top, too. Yeah, so many of them. So there's so much to build out, yeah. Areas, and they come up with theories about...
Yeah, like Hyjal was one of them mentioned. uh yeah i was certainly going up i was certainly pulling shenanigans as a player back in the day trying to find you know like i think there was there was a time when i was trying to like get
to gm island and you know like there's always uh our players are so incredibly creative and and they historically have been so rewarded by our game for exploration right like and not in the sense
that, like, you're going to find, oh, my gosh, I explored a certain area of the map and somehow I found this incredible axe on the ground that is best in slot or something. It's more of a, like, you're getting rewarded through little lore tidbits
and things that sort of make the world feel more alive and more, like, something that is lived in versus, you know, like, kind of, you know, smoke and mirrors sort of, like, fake, I don't know what you would call it,
like, props, like a facade almost, right? It feels like a living world, a world with a main character, right? Yeah. Transmog, you opted to have Otago. I really like that as a middle ground. Some people feel like you should have drawn a line in the sand and either picked on or off.
How do you feel about it? You gave the presentation on Transmog, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, I mean, you know, I really meant to when I said I know it was humorous. They were on stage about it. But you have 50 different classic players with the Envision Classic Plus to be. You're going to get 70 answers, 100 different answers. I mean, you name it.
And Transmog, we found, is one of those topics that players love to debate over, for sure. We think that we've approached it in a really smart way where, and you'll hear more about this tomorrow, by the way, in the D-side panel that we're going to do,
and some of the classic modifications that we've made to Transmog for folks who choose to engage with it. But we've really found a way with this option to where if you don't want it to be in the game, in your version of Classic Plus and WoW Forever,
you can effectively ignore it entirely and imagine so it doesn't even exist with the change that we put in. But for the players who love it, who really love it and have shown that they love it, this is an opportunity for them to be able to express themselves
in the way that they want to express themselves. Guys, for Transmog, just a quick show of hands, how many of you are so excited that they're adding an option to play with Transmog and you can't wait to make your character look cool and form Transmog?
Is there a lot of you? Me, yes, me, okay. Okay, so there are people. Just wanted to confirm that because I am not that person. I'm very excited to turn that off.
So maybe the toggle was the right choice because, like, to me, what I probably would have done is just said, no, Transmark, sorry, guys, go play retail, to be honest. But maybe there's enough of you where the toggle was actually a better choice
than just saying no. I don't see any world where you would have just said only Transmog. Like, yes, allow it. Like, that would have been the worst. But, yeah, maybe Poggle is the appropriate middle ground to them.
If so, many of you guys, like, can't wait to farm that. So my big reason as to why I think I would have just said no Transmog across the board is something along the lines of, like, say you go up to someone and they have Transmog on
and you have Transmog off. And you go up to them and you say like, ha ha, nice sword, I remember getting that one or something. Or like, you say like, something along those lines. And what you see on your screen is different from what they see on their screen.
What happens is it fragments the world. You're seeing different things on your two different screens. I'm scared of that a little bit. Having said that, I think it's a trade-off that might be worth taking
because so many people like the idea of transmog. So I think I'm fine with it. But that is a negative, right? I think it's a small negative, but it does exist.
With every design decision, there's going to be positives and there's going to be negatives. And the question isn't, is there positives or negatives? The question is, is there a net positive or is there a net negative?
That's a much different question, right? And I think in the case of Transmog, the toggle is probably a net positive. It does fracture the world slightly, but in return, you have a massive amount of players
that are now going to be excited to farm Transmog, do old content, and play the game way, way, way longer and more than they would have if it didn't exist. So even though there's negative aspects that I don't like, I might concede and say, yeah,
that's a net positive. Sure. That's a net positive. even though it does bring some negative. So we think it is the best of both worlds. We think that it reaches both of the audiences in either direction.
One of the cool things about our team, too, is that we're at the classic team. We are staffed with passionate players, right? And, like, as you know, right, the classic audience has a variety of completely different opinions a lot of the time.
Yeah. So do we sometimes, you know, and we have to have these discussions. and like I'll own up to it like I was somewhat of a naysayer like I was you know I don't want transmog you know in my classic mindset and what through our discussions and through our kind of
like planning it was what if okay well what if when you turn it off it turns it off for like for everyone for you you know what I mean like what we ultimately landed on for those on the team who who weren't you know interested in having it on we when when we were like okay
Actually, given that this isn't going to disrupt my experience, I'm still going to be able to, like, glance at you, see what you're wearing, and like, oh, okay, you've got some skill. You've earned these certain armor pieces. It's one of those things that we sort of...
I'm going to continue playing that. This is a poll from the wowclassic website 51 bad 28 good 17 I don care and no opinion I guess is similar
So, if you add in the I don't care and the good, yeah, but they probably made the right choice here. Of course, this poll is not fully representative, but still.
like to collect things. So I may just collect appearances, but not use it anyway, just because I like to collect things. And so giving people the option, it comes back to that agency, right? We want to be able to give players the agency to choose the experience they want.
And you've definitely changed the game. You've made so much. That's actually a fair point that Nora just said. I don't want to do the whole appearances because I think it breaks part of the fabric of the spirit of the game, right?
Like transmog letters. If you have certain shoulders, they should be those certain shoulders. Like, I don't like the idea of transmog. But collecting is kind of fun. So being able, I wonder if you have Translog off if you still collect appearances as like a, you know, something to do.
You never actually use them, but you're like a collector in that sense. Like completionist content. Exactly. So like that actually is a good point that Nora brought up. You can do the completionist content. You know that add-on Aspen Gold used to use?
It was like all the things. You just collected things just for the sake of collecting them. Do you guys remember that? I think people might do this still in retail. You literally don't even need the item, and you don't actually care to use the item,
but you just get the item to say, I got every item in the game. So it could be something like that, you know? ...changes in other ways, like in the different areas, there's things that some of the super hardcore WoW people were telling you about.
How did you land on what you change and what you keep the same? Like, you change the, like, just some examples. The animations, you have the option to have the more standardized animations, versus the newer ones,
and you have the option visually to have classic visuals. Very curious about that. The animations are an interesting one. I feel like the animations and the character models actually came mostly from our understanding
of what the classic community was really interested in, as well as what other audiences might be interested in, because we've also heard from players who were like, I can't stomach playing a game looking like that.
You know what I mean? It needs a direction. It needs a direction, yeah. And so, but really, like, the better, more generic answer to give you about, like, kind of how we've approached decision-making in Wild Forever,
it comes back to the design pillars that Tim covered in the What's Next panel. That's part of Wild. So we're using a lot of the same words here, too. We talk about the journey a lot, right? We talk about the world. The world is the main character. The journey before the destination, right?
And so when you have a team that, like, we're so passionate about the game and we have differing opinions, that could be a recipe for lots of arguments if we didn't have a compass, if we didn't have the relationships
that we trust and love each other and we know that at the end of the day, okay, we all want the same thing. We want to delight our players and build this incredible classic experience with so much more.
We're able to play it here today. I'd be really curious to hear your theory about what happens in two years from now. how do you keep a game like this fresh? Yeah. We talk about that a lot.
And we don't have a great interview announced today as far as what's going to be happening beyond our roadmap. But certainly when we built Season of Discovery and we found out where the lines were, it was a big testing ground for us,
wonderful exterior mount. We pushed our class design really, really far, arguably too far. But, you know, we found the line. And one of the other benefits from it was it really taught us how to build a really strong roadmap
for the future. And at least for the foreseeable future, our plan is we are staying on Azeroth. I mentioned when I said it that we are going to be expanding horizontally, and that means exploring the unfinished or unused zones that the original development team maybe simply
never had the time to build, or these different places that players have built up in their minds about what Classic Plus means to them. Now, staying on Azeroth and not going through the Dark Portal or 24 Intergalactic or something like that doesn't just mean Eastern Kingdoms
and Kalimdor. I mean, Azeroth is a big place. There are other places that we could go. But at least for now, for what we're committing to for players, it's going to be a lot of time in Classic Azeroth and Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.
But there... Oh, I just love this, man. Like, this was probably close to my number one thing I wanted in Azeroth. Or, sorry, in Classic Plus. what's with staying in Azeroth?
Like, almost number one, staying level 60 was up there, staying in Azeroth was really high on my list. Because I don't want there, like, I love TBC, but I just don't want there to be,
let's go through the Dark Portal and go to a completely different area and leave Azeroth behind, and now all the low levels are leveling in a different zone and area than where all the high levels are at. As good as TBC is, that's fundamental, like,
a game flaw, right? You fragment your whole player base, right? In RuneScape, the high levels are running around the same towns as the low levels, and you need the player interaction to have the low levels see the high levels
and to see the high levels to see the low ones because the high level seeing the low level might offer help or might just think to himself or herself and say, oh, wow, I remember being a level six in Goldshire.
That's cool. And then the low level looks at the high ones like, oh, I want that armor or that mount. You need that, right? And once you take that away, it's bad. It's really bad. You fragment everyone. It's brutal, right?
So as cool as Outlands was, I'm so happy we're staying in Azeroth, man. Now, he did say that Azeroth is a big place. They can expand. I hope that if they expand, it's not giant landmasses,
so nothing as big as Outland. and if it's an island, like a boat to it, to where you still have to go to the boat and not too much utility on the island. It's not something that you should stay on for days at a time. It would be something you visit and leave.
No auction house there, maybe no mailbox even there, or maybe just reasons to visit but not a place to just stay only there forever. It would be more like a place to go explore and then leave,
but you would still need to go back to Solomon City. You still need to go back to Orgamar. And then you still have this, like, the player's clocking counts, right? So, what it sounds like for a long time is Calendor and Eastern Kingdoms, guys.
That was one of my biggest, that was almost like, almost my biggest want for this game. No flying, level 60 cap, staying on Azros. I mean, those are really like top three in a sense, right?
So much for us to play with. and you'll hear about this more in the found photographs panel tomorrow, our approach to storytelling and how we start from a place of canon and tell stories that could have happened during that time period. We intend to stay in that vanilla time period forever.
How do you tackle that from a storytelling perspective? Because, you know, you had writers at the time, and I know you have people that are super into the lore and everything like that. How do you strike the same tone you had in that original?
Because it was a little bit more, I want to say, visceral, or there was a lot more conflict, I would say, in the original. How do you stay within that idea? Well, I mean, it starts with having developers who are incredibly passionate about the source material. Yeah.
I mean, incredibly. We have, you know, our quest designers are also the same people who write their own quest dialogue and are able to write for all the different races that are in the game. And they love classic.
And I mean, I can't stress that enough. They love classic so much that they almost inherently or innately in their day-to-day job know what classic feels like when it comes to storytelling.
There's that, and we also have a wonderful lore team that we work with. We work with Chris Messon every day. He helped us develop some of these new zones, the conceits around them, our new race. So really, it's a lot of people who just love that source material
and are able to bring it in their day-to-day working life to make sure it stays authentic. I already glazed the classic team, but just to give you more perspective on the glaze, Josh, I actually didn't know this,
he got his 15-year Blizzard ring recently, like a year or two ago, I think. He's been on Blizzard for more than 15 years. He's like an OG. Chris, I don't know his last name.
It starts with a Z, I think. Chris, I think he's been on Blizzard even longer. Like, this guy's been around since the start. This guy's just like a complete classic nerd. Like, way more than me. It's like, we have some good guys on this team.
No, not Chris Metzen. Chris with a K. K-R-I-S. Not Metzen. It's close to the Z, I think. Is it Zierhut? It might be Zierhut. Chris is, like, at Blizzard for 21 years or something.
Oh, yeah. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And, of course, there's Metzen, too. Which, same thing, right? It's like, oh, my gosh. Like, some of these guys are just absolute vets. And there's newer people, too, and that's fine.
But, like, guys, we have a good team working on this in that it's a good feeling. It's a good feeling to be like, okay, we have some people on the inside that know what they're talking about versus a bunch of people that are like kind of, you know, don't know much about classic or were hired a year ago.
And there's nothing wrong about hiring new people. But, you know, it's nice having some OGs there that can be like, yeah, I've been playing the whole time. I'm a classic enjoyer. This is what we need to do. You know what I mean? It's pretty cool. actually there's also a uh like a historians group that like we can email like there were a couple
occasions i like shot out an email that was like oh you know can you give me feedback on like these lore appropriate like night elf naming conventions right and like it's really cool to have like literally experts at the company for like kind of what what is the ethos what what's the the lore
behind you know these these different character races these different zones these different worlds at different time periods, right? Like, there's so much, I think, I mean, lore, right,
in World of Warcraft in general. And so, like, one of the boons that we have is that if we're just kind of sticking with vanilla, then we don't have to worry too much about, like, okay, well, in the future, where are we going from here?
Because we're staying grounded, and we're not, like, trying to do any kind of grand, you know, oh, my gosh, this really big thing, like, the divergent thing happened that would be, like, super, like, does not at all make sense for, like, some future, you know what I mean?
Like, it's really, we're really staying grounded in, like, you know what? What are the people who are living in the newer world of Warcraft, like, what are they thinking? What are they doing? What are their opinions on what has happened around them and to their family members and to their friends?
Oh, I just love that answer so much, dude. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. Like, it's, I think it's so rich for content. Like Clay mentioned, you know, we want to stay in Vanilla forever, and it's one of those.
I feel like all these modern MMOs feel like the opposite of what Nora just said. I feel like the modern MMOs, it's like every quest has to be this, like, absolute world-shattering experience of, like, oh, my gosh, this is so epic.
Like, you've got to save the world, this and that. Like, no, it's like we're living in Azeroth back in the OG days. What's going on here, you know? You know, like, that's already such a good setting. It's like one of the best settings you could ever ask for.
You don't need to go beyond that. You don't need to, like, make it into anything more. That's already sick, you know? Things that, like, there's so much there, I think that's going to be pretty acceptable to us.
Yeah. What is, in terms of all the response, have you even had a chance to look online? Have you seen the response to it? I've pulled up, like, you know, forums, Twitter, Reddit, like that like occasionally glancing at it on occasion but like that we do that routinely
anyways it's not even just a like glitz condé announcement type thing uh it's you know our team routinely looks at a variety of like what what are the players saying online and you know i applaud that because routinely reading twitter and reddit is a is a lifestyle choice okay um
It is, it is, it is, that is, I mean, that is a choice. So good on ya, good on ya. Even in person, like, we get folks contacting us, we get, you know, we see YouTube videos, right?
I usually watch creator videos on my lunch breaks. Just to kind of, like, stay up with what players are asking for, expecting, you know. And what's the response been like? What have you seen? honestly I'm really excited
I think folks are really delighted like there's all sorts of opinions out there right like some folks are kind of just like ew some folks are like one of the popular things I'm seeing are like why blue elves and like there's not a great answer
for that but I'm not like going on reddit and like well here's why you know what I mean those are the things that come through well here's why you should do this the things that come through the panels especially and I again want to plug the found photographs panel that Clay mentioned
that goes way deeper into the story and lore of Law Forever. And it's one of those things that as long as we keep a pulse on the community, we collaborate with them and we stay open to pivoting based on kind of what we agree with the community
is the right approach, right? I feel very confident that we're going to absolutely delight our players with Law Forever. How about you? if you got a chance to see the reaction. Oh, barely.
I've been in interviews all day. I am so excited to, you know, once the day is done, actually spend a little bit of time listening to the community response to it and everything. Bro, when I was at the event, I had the same answer as Clay.
I was like, I didn't know what people were saying because I was just live all day trying to get to all the panels, the AWC meet and greet I literally didn even look at my phone until I got to the airport on Monday And I had a lot of time at the airport because my flight was delayed twice
And then we were on the airplane. And then we ran out of fuel mid-ride. And we had to go back to another airport and sit there for another two hours because our plane ran out of fuel. We had to refuel.
And there was technical problems. And we had to fix the airplane. We had to wait for the mechanic to get there. And the mechanic needed a senior mechanic. So we needed that guy to get there. and then they fixed the airplane and we went back and then we had to wait for Wes. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is I had a lot of time to look at what the Internet was saying.
And there was a lot of, I would say the overall thing on the Internet is that people are hype. Like, people are very excited and they got the big things right. But I would say the biggest things that I saw with complaints were, number one, the Skyborne,
I would say is the biggest complaint out there, which I've already talked to you guys. Like, I actually don't hate Skyborn. I think it was a missed opportunity just to do Hyle from, like, a Forsaken Hyle for, like, something even cooler.
I'm not a big Ogre fan. Sorry, guys. But, like, I think I don't hate them. I don't love them. But people are pretty upset about Skyborn. And then two is the UI. And I do care about the UI.
I understand where that hate's coming from. In fact, I don't like it. I'm going to have to download it out on. That's probably my biggest complaint myself is I don't know why the unit frames of retail, the main place retail, I don't get it, man.
I don't like it. I would love a toggle to go to the Classic UI personally. That would be amazing. But, yeah, that's my biggest personal complaint. I've said that a few times. Anyway, between Skyborn and the UI, those are like the two biggest negatives I've seen, I think.
Let me think of a third. Those would be two. Is there a third? people are saying arenas, but I think that's actually just a loud, I actually haven't seen that that too much.
I think there's, the people that love arenas want arenas, but I think by and large. Is there a third? The mega servers, people seem to like that overall. I think those are like the big two. I think it's the UI and Skyborn.
Right, a lot of the other stuff you guys are saying, like there's people on both sides, but I feel like, I feel like a lot of people don't like Skyborn, a lot of people don't like the UI. I think those are like the big two. Oh, another good one is the server ticks. I agree with that.
I actually care about that myself. Server ticks. I actually did a notepad of what I don't like. The retail UI, the ticks. I didn't like the Barber and I think some of the legacy system talent points or QOP.
But yeah, the server ticks. So let's go with those three. Skyborne, server ticks, and UI. Those are three very valid criticisms from the community, I think, for sure. Can you explain server ticks?
I don't get it. Okay, so on retail, when you regenerate energy, it's like this. And then you use energy, and then you regen like this. On classic WoW, it goes like this.
Okay? Same with mana. Every five seconds of mana on classic WoW, it goes... On retail, mana is just steady. Server ticks. You are not getting that. Oh, they need to add that.
That's very important. I think for sure they need that. The tick system is amazing. Yeah. It's a big deal. Why is it good? It's part of how you play Classic WoW.
So, say you're a rogue, and you open up an ambush. A newbie rogue will open up an ambush. A good rogue will think, okay, when is the next server tick? I'm going to open up an ambush right before the server tick, so right as I use 60 energy to ambush, I'm going to get more energy back in a big leap.
So you can think ahead of when you're getting these ticks. Same with mana. You can time your evoke as a mage with a server tick of mana, so you get more mana out of your evocate quicker, right? It's a skill gap thing. It's very fun.
It's very cool. Same with drinking. Drinking water on the server tips. It's a really cool thing. Very, very cool thing. Certainly being there in the room here at BlizzCon and just being a part of the passion and the community and stuff,
I mean, it was incredible. Even just getting the name out there and having the cinematic be shown was, oh, my gosh. A lot of people complained about the name as well. I don't really like the name Forever either, to be honest.
But names are hard. I don't really have a name that I like better either. Like Classic Plus is my favorite name, but that's not really a name. And like Classic Infinite and Classic Eternal and like Classic, like, I don't know,
like maybe I like them a little, like about the same. Classic Eternal, like, I don't know. Like there's no name that I just like love. Why not just call it World of Warcraft? I think from a marketing standpoint, if you just say, oh, World,
I'm going to go play World of Warcraft, or we're releasing a new product called World of Warcraft. It's already been done. Can't really do that. Camelot? No, I don't think it could have ever been Camelot. I need to have WoW. It could have been World of Warcraft Camelot, maybe.
I don't know. Anyway, I don't like the name forever that much, but it's also just a name. It doesn't matter, right? And I don't really know of anything I like that much better, so it's kind of whatever. In the Sky War, I'm just so happy it's out there now and we're able to talk about it.
So yeah, I'm excited to see what the response is. I would say, you know, as we mentioned before, you ask 50 different players, you're going to get over 50 different answers. What can I say to them? And as Nora mentioned, we're building this with the community.
And we've shown as a classic team, especially with the preseason discovery, we are very responsive to player feedback and very quick to pivot when we need to with the smart right changes. And so, yeah, we just look forward to continuing to build this with them.
and for anybody who may be skeptical, we want them to jump in the beta. It starts on Thursday. Yeah. The launch is not that long after, and we're excited to take the stream with them. I've seen a lot of shock, actually, which is, like, I was even talking to players,
like, at the BlizzCon charity dinner last night, and one of them was, like, you know, oh, like, it would be cool to just see, you know, some class changes, maybe a couple of dungeons, and perhaps a ring.
I know it's asking for a lot, and then I was, like, sipping my dreams, like, oh you have no idea what's coming right now and like checking I love the little voices Nora W oh my gosh like checking socials uh today just sporadically in between you know
frenetically in between the interviews um I got to see a lot of like shock and awe of being like holy smokes is this real like holy smoke I'm delighted I wonder what they're gonna take this you know it's it's incredible to see how does she know how you guys sound too that's like the
craziest part is like, huh, weird. Yeah, to me it seems super positive online. Yeah. I would say that I think I have to imagine that the size and the scale of what we are building is probably a lot bigger
than what we were expecting. Oh, yeah. When Nora went on stage and she announced literally nine new dungeons, two new raids, I mean, most of the time, leading up to... It's bigger than I expected, and I knew a lot of what was coming,
so that's saying something. It's like, nine? It's like, all right. to this within, let's say, a few weeks ago, before the hype really started building. I mean, the expectation was, oh, they'll start from vanilla,
and they'll add a couple things, and that's it. We had no go from there. I had a player walk up to me after the What's Next? and they were like, you know, I thought there'd be a few dungeons, but then you just kept talking,
and you just kept listing off dungeon builds. Yeah. Wait, do you guys actually think it's too many? Do you guys think it's too much content? or maybe they should have released four or five, saved the other ones for later patches.
No. Dude, it is so much content we're getting. A thousand new quests, 600 new, what was it, prop items or something? Nine new dungeons.
I mean, that is so much content. That is insane. Holy crap. My steak is too juicy. I mean, you don't want your steak too rare. If it's like bleeding all over the place, you know, you want like, I like my steak from a medium.
I actually liked a, it used to like medium rare. I don't know what happened. I was like, I would actually like a little more cooked if I were medium these days. But I actually went to a dinner with my YouTube editor and he got a steak and he ordered it rare.
Nikki, if you're watching this, like, I don't know how you ate that thing, but it was just, it was still, it was cold in the middle. Like it was, it was straight like rare. Yeah. And he, he enjoyed it though. It's like, all right, man, that's what you want to do. You can eat your steak rare.
I'm going to get mine cooked, but whatever. Whatever. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that's a lot of content, man. You know, our team is small, but our ambition is mighty. Just from your script from the last episode,
the passion that our team has to deliver incredible things, I think knows no bounds, honestly. And I couldn't be prouder of what the team has delivered,
given just how much stuff we've put in forever. Like, we have the What's Next did not cover everything that's coming in forever. And we had lots of chats and discussions internally about what can we fit,
what can we pack in this 45-minute panel? Well, let me ask you real quick. The rumors were going around that WoW Classic Plus, I think it was. Yeah, someone in the chat said it right. If you say medium, they bring you medium rare.
So I think that's what it is. Every time I order a steak medium, it comes out medium rare. When I do medium rare, they always serve me rare steak. And I'm like, I don't want a rare steak. I want a medium rare steak, so I'm going to order a medium.
That's what I figured out. That's actually what I figured out. So that's why I order medium at a restaurant. Because it comes out medium rare anyways. All right, that's fine then. So that's a tech. What it was being called.
Sure. And what did people get close on that maybe didn't quite make the cut or that you kind of like the sound of? Anything? Ring a bell? That's a good question.
So things that we haven't announced yet that players got close to predicting. Yeah. Well, we haven't announced anything. Well, no, no. Let me rephrase that. So, like, before the big announcement, people had theories about what it would be.
Sure. Were any of them, like, comical to you or stuff that you discussed internally? I mean, there was stuff. Guys, this was tough being on my side of the stage, all right?
Actually, I was in a tough position, all right? they told us stuff so obviously I knew and then people are like what do you think of this and I'm just like I'm thinking in my head like this guy is so far off I but like I can't even I just like
this guy is completely wrong like oh my gosh like uh I don't actually want to name any names but some people were very wrong and very confidently wrong like there were some people that were like
this is what's happening I'm just thinking like you are so confidently wrong it's insane how constantly wrong you are. Like, what? Oh, my gosh. Oscar-worthy performance?
Guys, it's not Oscar. Couldn't actually, like, say anything, so I had to just, like, sit there. But there we go. Where, especially in the last few weeks, the speculation and the hype is
announcing. I mean, all that players really knew was that we were announcing something today. Yeah. And there were maybe a couple words that made their way out on the internet that players have speculated around. But that was enough, particularly in the last, say, week, where all of a sudden speculation just ran rampant.
And it was everything from, oh, this Classic Plus is going to be a mobile game. It's going to be set, it's a prequel. It's going to be set 10,000 years ago. A whole new storyline. I mean, you name it. But that original vision that all players share of Classic Plus is,
it is vanilla, but it doesn't go to the Dark Portal. And that is what we delivered. And so if there's one thing that I feel like we've absolutely delivered on is that vanilla feel, that the vanilla gameplay,
and that vanilla world that will continue forever, or at least as long as players want it to continue. Awesome. Yeah. I have to say, like, a lot of it, there was often, like, the, like, they're going to do new dungeons.
And I started going, ooh. And then they would be like, it's going to be mobile. And then I was like, that is so far off. Like the things that were wrong were like so far wrong. Yeah, it was like a huge, like, that was true. And so, like, it's hard to think of what even was close.
Other than, you know, like a lot of players correctly predicted we were going to do something with Hyjal, right? Yeah. Yeah. For real. For real. Don't you guys have phone lines this time? No, no. Yeah. yeah well anyway thank you so much I am so excited about this first Google game it's cool for
somebody like me who feels like you know I go into classic late and this year is late but I'm ready for this one so I think a lot of people are like me who feel that way so amazing yeah I think like it's hard to get a judge of the landscape of things when you go on the internet sometimes
because the vocal minority is very, very loud. So what I did is, you know, I have some friends, believe it or not, a couple, and I actually texted them, you know,
some friends that play classic well, and I was like, so what did you think of the announcement, you know? And I was like, what did you not like? Like, what did you not like and what did you like? And by and large, from the people that I asked,
like, the big thing was like, well, they're giving us what we want, by and large, but there's, you know, there's some things. And I think the big one was the UI. I think the UI is actually the number one thing
that I've heard people complain about. Maybe even more than Skyborn. Probably even more than Skyborn. UI, Skyborn, and the Tix. But I'd say the UI is probably number one. You know, the UI being more retail-looking is tough.
It's tough, very tough. But besides those, I think by and large, they delivered the classic plus concept. Like, a lot of the stuff we wanted. It's like, all right, yeah, totally. There's a sign out in the near future, and thank you for the interview.
Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Awesome questions, too. All right. Thanks for watching, everybody. Hit that subscribe button. Yeah, I've got to give this guy a shout out. Destin, that was a really good interview for someone who doesn't play WoW.
That was well done. He doesn't even like play WoW. That was nice. Good questions if you don't play the game. So, solid. I'll turn on my content goes live. Thank you so very much for hanging out.
Thank you to the members. Chris, Freddie, Phil, Ernie, Shane, Carol, Cherubi, Jason, Marcus, Harkeet, Emma, Michael, Brent, and Roberto. I really appreciate your support. I am going to get out of here. Very, very, very, very solid. Link to the video, sure.
It's on Dustin's YouTube. Here's the link right here.