---
title: 'Inside Mojo Ep 13 - Being a "Made Man" In Entrepreneurship'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=c3svFBkCUeQ'
video_id: 'c3svFBkCUeQ'
date: 2026-08-07
duration_sec: 2940
---

# Inside Mojo Ep 13 - Being a "Made Man" In Entrepreneurship

> Source: [Inside Mojo Ep 13 - Being a "Made Man" In Entrepreneurship](https://youtube.com/watch?v=c3svFBkCUeQ)

## Summary

In this episode of Inside Mojo, host Rob and WatchMojo's co-founder Ash discuss the evolution of entrepreneurship, from historical figures like prophets and conquerors to modern tech moguls and YouTube creators. They explore the shift from profit-driven businesses to venture capital-backed valuations, the role of purpose versus profit, and the changing nature of risk and freedom for entrepreneurs.

### Key Points

- **Introduction to the Podcast** [00:22] — Rob and Ash introduce the episode, discussing the Montreal Canadiens' playoff run and transitioning to the main topic of entrepreneurship.
- **Entrepreneurs as Rockstars** [03:08] — Ash critiques the media portrayal of tech entrepreneurs as principled geniuses, citing examples like Zuckerberg and Bezos to argue that many succeeded due to timing and low interest rates rather than pure vision.
- **Profit vs. Purpose** [05:03] — Ash distinguishes between 'profit' (financial gain) and 'prophet' (visionary purpose), arguing that throughout history, entrepreneurs like Zoroaster and Moses were driven by a vision to guide people, not just financial gain.
- **Historical Entrepreneurs** [06:53] — Ash traces entrepreneurship through history, from Cyrus the Great and Alexander the Great to explorers like Columbus who sought funding from angel investors (Genoese bankers) and venture capitalists (kings).
- **Richest People Over Time** [10:03] — Ash discusses a table of the richest people adjusted for inflation, noting that figures like Genghis Khan controlled vast wealth, while modern billionaires like Bezos and Musk have wealth tied to notional valuations rather than cash flow.
- **Freedom and Entrepreneurship** [14:05] — Ash argues that entrepreneurship is not about freedom but about servitude to employees and community, and that it requires 24/7 responsibility. He shares his personal motivation: freedom from the mental strain of disagreeing with a boss.
- **Born on Third Base** [16:10] — Ash discusses entrepreneurs who inherited advantages, coining the term 'ventreneurs' for those who lack the real drive. He respects those who build on their inheritance but criticizes those who think they hit a triple when born on third base.
- **VC Funding and Control** [19:06] — Ash argues that raising VC money turns entrepreneurs into employees with stock, subject to liquidation preferences and veto rights, thus losing control of their destiny. He contrasts this with 'old school' entrepreneurs like Hugh Hefner who took real risks.
- **Case Study: The Bronfman Family** [24:06] — Ash uses the Bronfman family as an example of generational entrepreneurship, noting that Edgar Bronfman Jr. was ahead of his time with streaming and synergy, despite initial failures, and eventually succeeded with Warner Music.
- **CEO as Chief Cheerleader** [25:12] — Ash emphasizes that CEOs must be the chief cheerleader for their company, but warns against excessive self-promotion. He advises balancing visibility with 'being in the trenches' and having a method to the madness.
- **Pivoting vs. Consistency** [28:21] — Ash advises keeping the big vision constant while adapting tactics. He warns against pivoting too often, as it can lead back to square one, and stresses the importance of adapting to market changes without selling out the core purpose.
- **YouTube and Young Entrepreneurs** [29:30] — Ash compares YouTube to the early Hollywood era, where outsiders like Chaplin and Disney disrupted the industry. He notes that YouTube is democratic, allowing anyone with a computer to become a media company, and cites Mr. Beast as a prime example.
- **The Dark Side of Creator Economy** [31:56] — Ash warns about the risks of going all-in on platforms like YouTube or OnlyFans, where the odds of success are low. He advises having a plan B and understanding the consequences of chasing fame without a backup.
- **Poll Results and Algorithm** [38:30] — The poll results show 57% view entrepreneurs as rock stars, 22% as geniuses, 11% as leaders/mentors, and 8% as fakes/phonies. Ash attributes the positive skew to YouTube's algorithm serving the content to a relevant audience.
- **WatchMojo's Funding Journey** [40:05] — Ash explains why WatchMojo took on investors after 15 years: for validation, governance, and to 'shut up the haters.' He cites the Ernst & Young award and the COVID pandemic as catalysts, and notes that third-party validation is crucial.
- **Documentary Update** [46:04] — Ash discusses the delay in releasing his documentary, citing the podcast and upcoming trips to WebSummit Rio and Buenos Aires. He plans to incorporate insights from these global events into the documentary.

### Conclusion

The episode concludes that entrepreneurship has evolved from profit-driven ventures to purpose-driven, often VC-backed enterprises, where notional valuations and external validation play a significant role. Ash emphasizes the importance of adaptability, resilience, and understanding the true nature of risk in the modern entrepreneurial landscape.

## Transcript

language. If you think you may be offended, switch off [Applause] [Music]
Watch Mojo and the Inside Mojo podcast, where each week we look back on Watch Mojo's 20 year history on YouTube. I'm your host Rob and with me as always is Watch Mojo's co-founder and CEO Ash Gan Carpan. Ash, we did it. We made the
playoffs. We did. Yeah. Know, I'm very excited the Canadians made the playoffs. I mean, the last time we made the playoffs in 21, we it was during the COVID bubble. So, we kind of made it to the Stanley Cup
finals kind of, but it's a bit of an asterisk. So, you know, this time I impressed. Again, when you have a good culture, obviously they're a very talented team. You know, it's the best built team uh that the Habs have had
since I've been following them in ' 86 when I was eight. Um but no, when you have a good culture and when you have talent, a lot of things come together. there's no amount of talent that could offset that. So, you're seeing a lot of
things aligning for this young Habs team and we are just stoked. Yeah, very young team actually. Uh what are your expectations for this playoff run? So, interesting pattern where sometimes when teams just have an incredible regular
season, when they're on a high, they kind of, you know, they deflate in the playoffs and then the next year they go on generally they learn. Like a couple years ago, the Boston Bruins, who as a Haps fan I must hate, but clearly
Bruins. We're obligated. It's in the passport. um the Bruins set a record for the best uh regular season and then they lost to the Florida Panthers and they retirement, you know, this year they didn't even make the playoffs. So with
the Habs, I do feel like they have zero pressure. They're taking on the Washington Capitals whom we beat in 2010. Um and this time I think Ovetkin this year was kind of very euphoric, chasing Wayne Gretzky's record. In some
ways, I think the Capitals may feel like that was their high like subconsciously like they already won something. So, there is an element of upset and as one general manager in our f in our past used to say, once you make it into the
playoffs, anything can happen. And I think more so than other sports in hockey, Stanley Cup is the toughest championship to win. You know, it's a grueling you got to win four rounds, best of seven
series. So, we're stoked. I mean, it's like we're loving it. And then at the end, we have not just the best young defenseman in Lane Hudson, now we just got probably arguably one of the most talented young prospects in Yvon
Demidov. So, I mean, we're kind of on a high. Very exciting. Go Habs, go. All right. This week, we're talking about being a made man in entrepreneurship. What can we expect for this episode? So, you know, let's discuss it this way.
the show and as as I've written and studied for like a couple decades now, has become this thing, you know, where we think of entrepreneurs as these like rockstar tech guys. Um, and we look to them, the media looks to them like as
kind of, you know, these these, you know, like smart people with a lot of principles. And I've kind of said, let's calm down. Like Mark Zuckerberg started Facebook to rate the attractiveness of his classmates at Harvard. Um, Evan over
at Snap started that so they could send six-second nude pics, you know, like let's be honest. Jeff Bezos, really smart guy. I mean, let's just be clear, he was an analyst. He just picked Amazon, originally called Abracadabra,
just because he was like, hm, books are an easy thing to warehouse, etc., etc. And because of timing being relatively early and because of a low interest rate environment where money was cheap, they were able to scale these global
platforms and become super wealthy. Like not old style wealthy like, oh there, know, like Jeff Bezos is worth a hundred billion, Mark Zuckerberg is worth 50, 60. And in North American western culture, you know, we do sadly look up
lucky, some of them just inherited, some of them can be scoundrels. So today's show, I just wanted to talk about how that has changed and throughout history, a lot of people have been entrepreneurs. Uh now
we just view it, we associate it with tech entrepreneurs, but it's always been this kind of new frontier that very entrepreneurial people have changed. And has venture capital ruined that you know has it created this false set of
objectives and and purpose and so that's some of the themes we'll touch on today. Sure let's start by talking about the origins of entrepreneurship. Uh you wrote an article that refers to profit versus profits. Can we get into that a
little bit? Sure. Well, the right juxtaposition is profit P R O FI T and purpose, you know, and it's fine. Some people are very much driven. They want to become entrepreneurs because they just want to be rich. But yeah, so in in
our uh in our kind of preparation for this, I use profit P R O P H T. And so, you know, I kind of went down a rabbit hole some time ago and I was like, if you go throughout history really the first people who were entrepreneurs or
some ways their disciples were entrepreneurs. But if you think about it, Zoroaster who founded Zoroastronism, Moses and the Ten Commandments that we at Watch Mojo obviously look up to, you know, they all claim to have heard
messages from God. And I'm agnostic. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. But it was really about a vision about a way to operate at the time your daily life you had a bunch of nomads you had a bunch of people living there were no real social
constructs constructs there were no norms no rules of engagement how do you decide it's funny Zoroastrianism which is a great religion in terms of good and is a great religion in terms of good and evil living you know well doing right
fending off temptation and all that those concepts obviously inspired Abrahamic religions Islam Christianity and Judaism, but like Zorastianism actually at the time you you did you could marry
like your sisters or your your whatever your family. But okay, over time with science and medicine and biology, they realized maybe some of these things just to say that if we're going to be candid, if you go back thousands of
years, the first entrepreneurs were the prophets. And then once kind of a religion framework was established like to kind of guide people in terms of how to live. You really had these kings and commanders who were the first
entrepreneurial folks. Cyrus the great kurro bzorg you know he built the first global empire. He introduced the C cyrus cylinder which was the the foundation. It was version 1.0 of the declaration of independence that America is built on
right. He inspired Thomas Jefferson. Alexander the Great. Alexander the Great Alexander the Great. Alexander the Great was a born on first base entrepreneur. His father Philip of Macedon was already king. His mother Olympia was like a
political uh you know operative so to speak. his destiny was so to speak, you speak. his destiny was so to speak, you know, destined to be um a king. And they were literally the first people who would kind of like gather around people,
employees, tell them this is the vision. This is why we're doing this. And it was sometimes emotional. We are going to go avenge the Persian Empire burning of avenge the Persian Empire burning of Athens in 480 BC as Alexander would say.
Sometimes it was purely profit. Hey, if we want to have a better life, we need Egypt's wheat. we need Persia's gold you know whatever the purpose or profit the entrepreneurial in that sense then eventually you had explorers Columbus
was the first uh you know one of the first types of entrepreneurs who went up to angel investors and those were the Genoise bankers to ask for money or then he would go to a venture capitalist or private equity fund the king to say give
me money and then eventually you had sorry inventors and scientists Thomas sorry inventors and scientists Thomas Edison, prolific patent holder. You know, we've discussed how Edison's patents led to a lot of the Warner
Brothers folks to leave the east coast, go all the way to the west coast to build like a geographic buffer so they could compete kind of unfairly, right? So like the themes of entrepreneurship um have have kind of carried and then
eventually the media barons uh Joseph Pulit Pulitzer, William Randph Hurst, Henry Loose, Rupert Murdoch, some of these were self-made. William Randph Hurst actually borrowed $10 million which at the time was like asking for a
hundred million from his mother to buy the San Francisco newspaper and that became his um his his his base of empire. Same thing with Rupert Murdoch. all to get to today where you had technologists and this is really the era
that like I think we in 2025 think of entrepreneurs as Elon Musk's but my point is it's always been the new frontier and I would say to bring it all together with YouTube storytellers you know I feel today really influencers
creators storytellers these are the real entrepreneurs now these are the people who are basically believing in themselves um and kind of wanting to cool to see this evolution. I just want to let our viewers know that we have a
poll going up on our YouTube channel. So, head over to watch Mojo on YouTube want to know how do you view entrepreneurs? Are they rock stars? Are they leaders and mentors? Are they fakes and phonies? Or are they geniuses? So,
pick one of those four and we'll revisit the results at the end of the episode. As in Michael Jordan kind of phony. I'm kidding. Well, we'll see. I'm curious about this one. I've kind of Anyways, I'm not going to telegraph what I think
my uh the responses will be, but we'll see when we when we get there. Um, so we also have an interesting table that kind of tracks the richest people over time adjusted for inflation. Let's take a look at that. So, yeah, this was
something I think, you know, I just came across. You always hear about inflation adjusted and it you know it I was I was actually writing an article back in the day on Iran and just saying how as the original first empire it was obviously
the wealthiest nation at one point and then over time if you fast forward to today you know skip the gold skip the other you know minerals or or you know things that led to its GDP in the last century it was because of oil and gas
and it got a lot of attention from the Brits, the Russians um and the Americans and I Notice that whomever throughout history ruled over Iran or ancient because they consolidated a lot. So first Cyrus the great then Alexander the
great and even Genghaskhan who adjusted for present time his net worth was actually 100 trillion or could be calculated as 100 trillion. And the Genghaskhan was ruling let's say in the
12th century you know what was the GDP of the world and let's say if it was uh 120 trillion and he controlled you know 80% of it then they would say well he was on top of 100 trillion but the point is if you go back here so today you know
Jeff Bezos Elon Musk this is a few months outdated Bernard Arno who runs LVMH in France you know you have all these uber wealthy people and most of them They didn't make this money like through cash flow. And this is to
connect the dots. Back in the day, entrepreneurs would generally start a business and they would take risk, sometimes financial risk with debt, and they would incur losses until they found their product
market fit, hit a tipping point, broke even, and then through cash flow would accumulate earnings over time. That's changed in the last two three actually it's changed going back to the 1980s with private equity and then venture
capital angel investing where a lot of people their wealth is on their the the like I understand the frustration when medication I can't pay for groceries tax the rich I don't pay taxes I mean taxes
fund we're Canadian we're pretty we're a lot more left in that sense America like the GOP all they care about is get rid of my taxes right So our mindset being Canadian is a bit differently. But when people are like out there like tax the
rich, Elon this and that, I'm like, you know, he's not sitting on $200 billion know, he's not sitting on $200 billion of cash. Yeah. He's not hoarding gold in that sense. He's the owner of four or five businesses and he owns, let's say,
whatever 20% of businesses that are worth a trillion dollars. Erggo, that's the 200 billion. So if the value goes down, he may be broke, so to speak. And he has like 13 children to pay for also. So the children, the baby mamas. Yeah, I
mean he's prolific in that sense. He's open sourced his sperm basically. That I'm just repeating. But but so my point is there has been a shift culturally where it's gone from being master of your domain running a
profitable going concern generating profits reinvesting some putting some away to now you basically have a lot of people who are wealthy on paper because some investor came and said well I'm going to buy 20% of your business and
I'm going to value it at 100 million so here's 20 million that 100 million is not real value in my opin It's a notional amount where two parties agreed on a value on paper so that they could come to an agreement where party A
sells a stake to party B the investor. But when people then point to that big and bought that. You know, it's like you could say your house is worth 5 million because they want to be a homeowner. Let's say your home is not really worth
million if somebody comes and gives you a check for 5 million for a set home. uh, a lot of people associate entrepreneurship with freedom, you know, not working for anybody else, uh, you know, having control of your own
that? And has that changed over time? Well, okay, yes and no. First of all, I where you think freedom, but you're actually like entrepreneurs have to be servant in to succeed. You have to serve your employees. You have to serve your
community whether you believe it or not or like it or not. So you don't actually have freedom in that sense. If anything, you're more like 247. If if like, and and you mess up and you're not there to fix it, guess who has to clean up the
end. It's more responsibility and it's 247. But but yes, to the to the point you're making, I do admit that entrepreneurs are rarely driven by profit. F, you know, P R O FIT T. It's not what drives us. Because if you're
driven by profit, you're going to go get a job that pays you a ton of money. There is purpose. There is another reason. There are insecurities. I think most of them is just freedom to do what they want. For me, I was at a point when
I was 26, 27 where every time there was a problem, I wanted to resolve it one way. And my my boss, it was his right. He was the CEO. He wanted to always resolve it in a way. And we didn't really agree on those principles. Not
saying he lacked principles, just that our we we viewed things differently. So for me it was freedom from that baggage from that mental strain of every time there's an issue I got to finagle my brain to you know look at Donald Trump
now Donald Trump says something one of his lieutenants goes out there says to backtrack to do what our supreme leader Donald Trump wanted you know everybody's back trumping these days um so yes I do think it's freedom but I
literal freedom when you're like I could do whatever I want because you actually find yourself more uh or less free so to speak, you know, right? We've touched on this a little bit before. Um not all of the biggest entrepreneurs in the world
are self-made. A lot of them started on third base. Um what's your estimation of that? Who are the real ones who have kind of made it for themselves. Okay. I don't want to [ __ ] on born on third base entrepreneurs, which is a term uh I
think it was Lawrence Switzer. He was a coach. Uh he coached at Oklahoma, then he went to Dallas Cowboys. And he basically said some people are born uh on third base but they wake up thinking they hit a triple you know but they're
want to just and somebody asked what do entrepreneurs do? So I'll segue to entrepreneurs do? So I'll segue to answer that. So the reality is there are some people who are born in certain families or to a certain father and
mother who started a business and will either inherit or not. they actually to not do anything. Some then choose to actually
pursue and to quote paraphrase Philip and Alexander to build for themselves a king or great for the one I leave you is too small type of thing. Um, those people I have nothing but respect for because the insecurities and
the traits that they need when they don't actually have to do anything to really really make a name for themselves. I have nothing but respect. Now, sometimes they they don't have the sense of awareness. Sometimes they think
they hit a triple, but they were born on third base. But that doesn't take away from their ambition, their drive, their desire. And who am I to criticize them, right? But there is this just I used to call it
entrepreneurs ventrepreneurs which are like not in it for the real thing which is what what is entrepreneurship? What do entrepreneurs do? Entrepreneurs is do entrepreneurs do? Entrepreneurs is really somebody that mobilizes
really somebody that mobilizes resources, recruits people, identifies a purpose, a goal, brings it all goal, brings it all together with a plan to then accomplish
a goal. Those are kind of what entrepreneurs do. So yes, if you break down those things, it is true that now you have way too many like entrepreneurs who want to be entrepreneurs, but they don't
necessarily understand what it takes. Like are you willing to sacrifice forego immediate gratitude gratification for a possible future? Most people don't. Most to meet people from Hollywood who would come and they wanted to talk about
YouTube, the concept of risk was just foreign to them. They were like, well, I'm this and that and I I'm, you know, I don't I'm I'm open to YouTube, but how doesn't work like that. It's a democratic platform. And they didn't
understand that. They just had this sense of, you know, expectations that is not really conducive to succeed. Mhm. And then I also think, not to [ __ ] on
the 99% of entrepreneurs who raise money from VCs, that the second you raise really an entrepreneur anymore. You're an employee who has a lot of stock. their you're their [ __ ] Whether you know it or not, they have legal
called liquidation preferences. There are things called veto rights. So, you actually are no longer in control of your destiny. Like even if you sell 1% of your business, it doesn't matter if you have control or majority because
there's legal terms that are attached to things. So yeah, the entrepreneurs who know what it takes, they're dead on arrival. The ventreneurs are like walking dead because eventually you're gonna be like, "Oh, you think you're hot
[ __ ] You think you're worth gazillions. You get like the covers of newspapers. then one day, Joe Peshy style, you walk into a boardroom and there's a bullet with your name on it. Then there's nothing you could do. And if you put up
a fight, yeah, you may just drag out the inevitable. You'll be escorted face down out of the building type of thing. So, but entrepreneurs old school don't really exist. It's very rare to somebody to take the risk, you know, like the,
you know, Hugh Hefner who was based in Chicago way back and lived in worked for Esquire. One day, Esquire said, "We're picking up and we're going to New York." And he was like, "I don't really want to, but okay." Paid me $5 more a week,
which at the time may have been 500 bucks more, a,000 or whatever it was. "Okay." He was looking for a reason to stay back in Chicago and then he started Playboy and he parlayed it into this empire. That's old school. Even Hugh Hef
and even Richard Branson. Richard Branson took a lot of risks. I'm not Branson is OG Hall of Fame level entrepreneur. But as like as I got as I research entrepreneurs, I realized like his later ventures carried no risk for
him. He would basically leverage the Virgin brand to then go and bring on financial risk. Now, it's still entrepreneurship, but it's not the same thing, right? And speaking of the level of inherent risk involved in
somebody who's completely started from zero and than somebody who did start on third base because a failure for for those two types of people looks very different. Like nobody is going to nobody is going to look down upon
didn't make it anywhere. But somebody who started with an advantage and ended up screwing it up is going to be looked at very differently. Um look it's case by case, right? The reality is you know that line I've said, "Hey, good luck
believed in you buddy." Like to be honest, like people not make fun in a YouTube? you're hiring all these unexperienced kids, like what are you doing, you know? So, it was hard and if you fail, there are people who will
dance on your grave regardless of if you're like, you know, made uh you know, self-made or if you're, you know, born on third base. But look, to be honest, yeah, there are some born on third base people who destroy a ton of wealth. Um,
and they just kind of could still carry on even if they're ridiculed. Um, but there are others who kind of use that. I mean, I'm not this is not a knock. This is actually a credit. Um, so Montreal, one of the prominent families, the
Bronman's, the grandpa, I mean, I could see his house from here type of thing. You know, there's a nice house on the mountain. The grandfather Sam, I think, mountain. The grandfather Sam, I think, built Bronman, global liquor business
here. And remember that line behind every fortune is a great crime by So, they built their empire. He was a driven, driven, driven. Then the second generation, shirt sleeves to shirt
sleeves. The second generation built it up and that was uh Steven Steven Broman. No, Stephen is the son. Um Charles Bronin, sorry. And Edgar Bronman, like Edgar went to the States. Charles Bronman built it up here. And
then eventually their son, Edgar Bronman Jr., he decided like, I'm not interested in liquor. I'm not interested in DuPont. They own the stake in the chemicals company. He was like, I want to go into show business. A lot of people made fun
of him because they're like, oh, rich kid. You know, well, now he's probably 70 or 65. Uh, but my point is a lot of people bashed him and I had started my career in media and the stuff that he was talking about synergy and streaming,
he was just ahead of the curve. Now he did do this merger with universal uh in did do this merger with universal uh in the states with Vendi in in France and the states with Vendi in in France and it destroyed a lot of shareholder value.
So yes it was fair to criticize him on the financial outcome but in the end the stuff that he saw the vision he had was right. It was the timing that was off.
But then he didn't kind of go and cry. And I'm not here as this PR guy. and just saying that you can't just simplify it as born on third base or not. He then went out and took a controlling stake in Warner Music, built that up. Um, he's
zone, maybe not the zone, but he's the chairman of something else. But my uh chairman of something else. But my uh Fubo, I think my point though is that eventually develop the maturity to have
Like because you sometimes don't control it, right? There's some entrepreneurs benefits them. They get a bunch of valuations and then they go up and then that made sense in co when everybody was working from home. And then
alternatively there are some who who do crash but they kind of pick up the pieces and they don't you know listen to the haters and then they go and fulfill their destiny as an entrepreneur. You know you do only have to be right once
but it's not like if you're wrong once then you can never repeat. It's up to you you know right? With the advent of social media and things like this, celebrities in their own right, which has probably resulted in a lot of
[ __ ] Yeah. So, tell me about that. What's your estimation of like the the level of fame that some of these guys have and which ones are genuine and and who, you know? Okay. So, not to be a hypocrite since we're doing a whole
podcast and we're here, you know, so like be careful what kind of stone I want to throw from this perch. I will say though that a CEO is ultimately the chief cheerleader of a company. So a CEO, like I've always said, I much
rather be behind my computer firing off emails, working on content, working on partnerships than like being on a stage at a conference. Although I have to do that as well, but I know what I prefer. But the point is is if as a CEO you
don't recognize that you're the chief cheerleader of the company, it is hard for the company to stand out, close deals, recruit, yada yada. I've met so who came up to me and said, "Hey, I heard you speak at this event or I read
this article. It resonated." So it is also like part of the racket to attract and all that, but too much of a good thing is a bad but too much of a good thing is a bad thing. So yes, in the era of the 2010s
where where if interest rates were low and there was so much money, it's kind of like tilted to the other extreme where it was all about the noise and the PR and you know rock stars and there was nothing underneath of there was no real
nothing underneath of there was no real foundation. So to me the advice I would give is at a given time you know you have to make noise at a given time you have to go behind and just be in the trenches. So over 20 years, yeah, from
2006 to 89, I was maybe more out there trying to just learn and make contacts. In the mid 2000s, we were so busy. I was head down in the trenches just working. Couple years ago, I was like, "Okay, co is behind us. I can't be totally off the
radar. We need to get back out there." And then sometimes it's also more tactical, like you know, a means to an end. Like we were trying in our case, like we were trying to develop podcasts. So I'm like, "Hey, this could work." But
that's the key. There needs to be a res. There needs to be a method to the madness. And there's way too many entrepreneurs who are kind of on this global rockstar PR tour. I had actually invested in in many startups. There was
one and I like them. I like what they're doing and I understand. But it was like, bro, you haven't launched for a year. Every day you're in some other conference. We're just funding your travel lifestyle.
But I was like, you know, Ash, you want to be an angel investor in startups? Not everybody's going to have the same. Now, eventually they launched and I never said anything to them because I knew the method to the madness, but I understand
the optics of another investor who maybe wasn't operationally experienced could just funding this guy to go to one, you know, beachside resort to another." Um, and there's a balance. You know, you
too out there. That can't be your product. Your product cannot be I'm conferences. You know that that makes sense. We got another interesting question in uh what is more critical being able to pivot as the market
despite the short-term challenges. I mean I hate the answer always it depends I'll explain very quickly. So for us like I've already explained this the vision of inform and entertain the principles of producing content that
passionate about like that did never change with us. those fundamental, you know, vision, beacon, purpose was always constant. But the tactics have to focused on like Q&As, as we discussed a couple weeks ago, and we sit down with
they don't really want to answer. The publicist keeps it dry. It's like vegetable lasagna interviewing, you know, uh, uncooked squash. Yeah. Like that's not going to go anywhere. So, you have to adapt. So, I would say you want
to keep the big vision stuff constant. You don't want to sell that out in that sense. But if your tactics are not leading to the desired outcome, absolutely just be careful not to pivot four times because you're back to square
one. Taking it back to YouTube, which is our domain, um the platform has allowed for a lot of young entrepreneurs to kind of like, you know, take flight and it's resulted in some some huge businesses. Like if you look at Mr. Beast for
example, that's like he's the biggest example right now. Um what do you think about that? How has YouTube enabled young people to kind of jump into the you know, build something for themselves? Well, let's start off by
saying Hollywood probably 120 whatever years ago was very entrepreneurial as Charlie Chaplain, whether you're Walt Disney, whether you're the Warner Brothers. I mean, those were the crazy outcasts and misfits and all that. And
they probably started very entrepreneurial organizations. But then eventually everything gets fat. Everything becomes more profitable. It attracts a lot of phonies and fakes and people who are just complacent. And then
this new thing that comes and disrupts it. Right? So now we get to YouTube. So platform as we've said that is totally democratic, you know, with a with a basic computer, your phone, you could edit and and be a media company. There's
no barriers to distribution. You could upload and you could use social media to to build. So yeah, I think any new emerging platform technology lends itself well to disruption and innovation. It's not surprising and this
is why I came up with the whole concept of storyteller entrepreneur. It's not surprising that if like okay Rupert Murdoch inherited his dad's newspapers but he's an OG. He built it like you can't like can't take anything away from
him. He built Fox you know. So if Rupert Murdoch was walking in the streets of 2015, he probably would not go to quote Warren Buffett, chop down some trees, hire a truck, run it through ink, print newspapers. He would be like, "Man, I
newspapers. He would be like, "Man, I get to overthrow democratically elected governments using YouTube. Fantastic. I get to undermine politicians this way." You know, so it's just like a means to an end. So absolutely, YouTube has been
super democratic. I love it as an outsider. You know, if you're let's Yes, read my profile, you're like white, cisgender male. Fair. Okay. But I'm also
Ashan Kasuchan, born in Iran, uh, born Muslim, you know, starting a career. So, to me, I have nothing but gratitude for the internet and YouTube. Without it, the internet and YouTube. Without it, I'd be not doing, you know, the the the
love the fact that this has created so much. But the YouTube. YouTube has been on an accelerated trajectory where after 20
yeah, I think look, I'm going to say this about the internet. So I I pitched this about the internet. So I I pitched an idea. Um I pitched two ideas. I was like one was do we want to do please hear both sides. I was like we could do
top 10 only fans celebs like if we wanted for watch mojo. Not a bad idea interesting stories and you know Only Fans. But then I had read this expose on Reuters about all the bad parts of Only Fans. So I wanted to do more of an essay
Fans. I'm going to comment about Only Fans, but it kind of appeals to just this fame obsessed world. It does give a tremendous element of freedom, agency to the 1% of
agency to the 1% of 1enters who succeed. That's good. Yeah. every kid wanted to be an athlete but they never went to school because they just thought they got the skills and then they're unemployed. The problem
with YouTube and Only Fans and social media is if you go all in hoping to be that 1% and more kids in polls want to be creators than anything else. What happens when you're the 99.9%. So, a lot of using the only fans, a lot
of women gravitate when they're like, well, and I understand if you were like during co if you were um a strip club employee, a stripper, um you now all of a sudden could use Only Fans to make an income. But you also were like, well, I
also don't put myself in situations around men that I'm uncomfortable and I get to do it on my terms. So like you see the good even of something like Only your your morals, you know, you could like or dislike, but then what happens
when every young woman at 17, 18, 16, 18, 19, whatever, I'm assuming there's a legal age above which, but you just go I'm going to go totally nude and I'm going to be on Well, you are limiting your options down the road. Yeah. In
relationships. And again, it's it's 2025. It's your life. It's your agency. Do what you want. But there are consequences. So that's a bit more extreme talking about nudity and only fans. But YouTube and social media is
the same thing. I think it's fine. I am not somebody that will ever tell an entrepreneur or creator don't go for it. Go for it. But understand the odds are really against you, you know. So if you go all into YouTube and you don't have a
plan B, it could become a very very depressing place where you know you waste your life when you have a ton of energy and a ton of creativity. So you also have to know when to pivot yourself. Yeah. I mean, yes, when we're
talking about the people who become very wealthy doing the stuff, but there is like a scale of success. And and I think about this too in terms of music because that's I spent a lot of energy in that uh over the course of my life. You don't
necessarily have to be you too playing at the O2 Arena. You could be having a successful career playing medium to smalls size clubs, you know, and still do. But, you know, you're not a you're not a multi-millionaire. But, you know,
I think the same applies to YouTube as well, doesn't it? It does. But the difference is if you're playing music, I think like music is what you love and you you might try different genres. It's an outlet, yada yada. The problem we
have with YouTube, forget even Only Fans with the problem we have with YouTube don't necessarily follow your passion, but what is your comparative advantage, demand, and supply? There's way too many people like the idea of music and
writing is there's always infinite number of people that are going to voice it and many successful like Van Go it's like a myth was he poor when he died was he not okay we could agree none of them were seen as geniuses you know their
life was challenging the problem with YouTube is like what is it that you as a young person it's like LinkedIn influencers like there's LinkedIn influencers like there's LinkedIn experts whose expertise is LinkedIn
with you about LinkedIn because I find that to be the most phony social media platform there is. Okay. So, a lot of feedback when people text me, they're real." But I go, "It's also because I can say things to open up to show
because if you're a CEO, you're like my of a company and you're not like a founder." Yeah. Your board might think this guy is, you know, losing it or this guy's too emotional. In my thing, it's a bit different. You know, some people
zen. Some people think I'm super crazy, but the reality is I could say things LinkedIn is different, but that's why I don't spend that much time on LinkedIn. I like X. Yeah, it's the asylum. It's real time, but you get to see people for
their crazy inner selves, which I find more interesting. All I'm getting at is if you're young, yes, it's good to have an early advantage as a storyteller, but just understand you probably don't really have a story to tell. So then
what that means is it becomes a bit of a um it it it becomes a bit of a downward spiral where then everybody is just like who is that super annoyance? Is it Jack Dordy? There's one influencer who just goes around being a total
[ __ ] That's the only word to say. So I'm like okay he's popular. He's driving flashy cars. So every young 13 14year-old instead of saying well I still got to pay attention to school or I'm going to have this hobby. I'm a
great guitarist and I'm going to give tips. You know what I mean? But we've be we've come to a place in society where everybody is just chasing attention and everybody is just chasing attention and their expertise is being a bumble clot.
Yeah. I mean that's not a good place for society to go. And that's also again tying it to entrepreneurship. You have people who have like I'm on my fifth startup. None of them have worked. So maybe the
problem is not the product or service you launch. Maybe you need to not be an entrepreneur. Maybe you should be an executive. Right? One problem where I go entrepreneurship is because they decided to just give a ton of money because it's
only when they place money that they could charge management fees um to entrepreneur. And I'm not saying that they cannot succeed, but they would have been more well served if they would have had some experience under their belt.
Yeah, makes makes a lot of sense. Uh so we got the results for from our poll in and they actually surprised me quite a lot because we asked surprised yeah we asked uh what do you how do you regard entrepreneurs and 57% said that they are
entrepreneurs and 57% said that they are rock stars 22% said geniuses 11% said lead would have been fakes and phonies but that only got 8%. I know what's happening here and not to overthink it. So I think when we did episode this is a
lot about algo consistency like we initially were like do we even put this on watch mojo and I was like I sometimes chime in as a CEO I are like well it's cuz you're biased but I was like if you mofos are serious
podcasts and you don't leverage watch mojo we're all a bunch of morons you podcast and put it in the third shelf in the attic and be like nobody saw it. I think if we would have done the show on the fir if we would have done this poll
been a higher because I think you would have gotten a larger proportion of like passers by on watch mojo that had no idea what this is by episode 13 I think what is happening is YouTube's algorithm is serving up this kind of content to
people that legit care about entrepreneurship so those people are not entrepreneurship so those people are not as skeptical cynical and like military or jaded you have people that are sitting here going, "Wow, this is useful
as an entrepreneur. Oh, this is useful as a storyteller." So now I think that happening, which is good, which is shows again that YouTube the algorithm works. It's not just a bad thing. It eventually finds the right audience for content and
vice versa. Yep. I would agree with that. Um, so Watch Mojo did bring on a little bit about that? What was the reason for that? How did that come reason for that? How did that come about? Sure. So, I don't want to lie. I
never uh when I started I've covered all this in my third book tenure overnight success. So I got turned down by 100 VCs because I didn't really like content and that's when we needed the money and it was fine. Nothing illegal. I managed to
stay afloat yada yada found product market. We're very profitable. We always had more strategics like media companies that were impressed with what watch was creative but you could read a P&L you know you're you're reasonable. You're
not like extreme finance extreme creativity. Um, and they like that Watch Mojo was a brand and they like many things, but it was also admittedly not an obvious fit to do a partnership with a company to really grow Watch Mojo
a company to really grow Watch Mojo faster. By I told you by like 2015 16, 10 years in, we were just this privately held company that was really doing well, House of Cards. We could have been this mirage. So when Ernston Young, which
whom we now work with, and it's genius of them, we didn't use Ernston Young at have the entrepreneurship of the year." And I was like, "No, I'm not interested in that." But I remember going, "It would be cool as a validation to say
this accounting firm vetted us, did their due diligence, we're legit." So when we won, which was great, I always said this is an individual, but it's really more for the
team, and it was a source of pride, yada yada. Now five years later we were still yada. Now five years later we were still independent and then when COVID hit I was like hey man we dodged a bullet you know if one day Donald Trump as
president goes I don't like YouTube I'm shutting down YouTube and some force measure externality happens to us I am all alone the way co was and then on the flip side co made half of the industries uninvestable like right now if you're an
investor and you invest in manufacturing you're not going to make any moves until you figure out what happens with tariff. So in 2020, a lot of investors were this, you know, travel thing." Well, not right now. We're going to invest in this
social club where everybody hangs really close together. Well, we're not going to do that now. So, home entertainment, we ended up getting a little bit more interest. And we didn't need the money, but I was like, which I know to some
people it doesn't make sense. I was like, I actually like governance. I like running a well-run administration and all that. And so I was like, if we bring on investors, it does signal again to the world that, hey, this is legit. A
bunch of professionals came, vetted it, and to me it was just like elevating the organization a bit more. So the combination of fear um COVID like event happening to us. Uncertainty. Uncertainty. And then
obviously Yeah. I mean, it's it's good to get investors to come and place a value on your business because until you do that, you know, like we I don't chase media stories, but like recently Axios did a story that included us generally
on digital media. The first question is, uh, did you guys you guys have any funding? I was like, yes. It's like it's a shame. It's unfortunate that that is a checklist item, but I also understand that it's like it's a vetting process.
It's like, okay, some people have come professionals in suits. They sized you colonoscopy and you you passed, you know, so it's it's it's kosher type of thing. So that was all the reasons that we did it. But, you know, it doesn't
change anything. You know, it's still we're as Vince Lombardi says, the score is for the guys in the stands. You have to just out hustle the guy across you on the line of scrimmage. And that's very true. You also mentioned uh shutting up
to? Um, okay. In the context here, so today I won't lie. Ultimately, you're always just, it's like, what do they say? Everybody's got an opinion. Everybody's got an [ __ ] Whatever that line. So,
sometimes you could be like, "Let's use a house. Let's not talk about." So, I could be like, "My house is worth $50." You're like, "My house is worth 20." You're like, "Your house is worth 20." I'm like, "It's a $50 house." We could
go back and forth. And yes, there's municipal assessments that are historical, but if somebody comes and buys the house for $50, and you sit there and you go, "This is a $20 house." I'm like, "Dude, the house sold for 50,
so shut the [ __ ] up." You know, if you want to say it's 45, we could have a conversation. But if you're saying it's 20 when somebody came and bought it for 50, that's the price. Yeah. So now, if let's say in 2020, I don't need to tell
if today you still don't get the merits of YouTube, you're a [ __ ] Like forget, I can't help you at this point. But if also you came and you said, "Well, Watch always go, "There's some legit feedback. I don't I don't view it as whining or
don't see the point of watch mojo is this and that." I'm like, "Well, look, these professional investors came and they valued us at, you know, $50, let's say, or $10. So who is you to be sitting here wasting my time?" And also, I'm a
finance guy. I I taught finance at McGill. I you know I did I was like 20 years ago doing valuation models for Wikipedia but it's no longer just your stupid opinion and my stupid opinion. No there's a third party that's agreed.
more information on the business than you do sitting there with your bag of Cheetos in your basement. But sure let's go on four more hours of back and forth. So yes, that was for me a big reason because I would always tell them
building on YouTube relying on this business model doing this kind of programming will yield the best result and people would say no and that was their right but you shut up the haters when somebody comes and validates that
and that is a part that I had to accept that entrepreneur change you know you opinion and it's just you know you're you're just one business out of many so you do need that third party validation whether you like it or not. Gotcha.
episode. We got some good engagement from the comments. I'm really happy with be featuring the launch of our documentary. I understand that there's been a bit of a delay on that. So, I I'm an honest guy. So, I I don't want to
an honest guy. So, I I don't want to lie. Half of it is doing this podcast, which I mean, we share a few notes. For me, it doesn't take long to prepare, but out the VO would have been done. But that's really half. That's not I mean, I
prolific. The truth is now that I'm going to websummit in Rio um and then off to Buenos Cyrus to meet some of our team that is in Argentina, I do want to just kind of soak that in a bit more because one in Argentina I do
want to talk to them because the team we have has a lot of interesting experience working in more traditional in the Argentinian media model. So I do think that is an interesting vantage point to just hear. Not even sure if any of it
will go in it. But the global nature how YouTube is also giving a new lease on life to a workforce that otherwise hey legacy media dying and you got to go with that. So one I was like wait for that and I'm always asking questions you
but so I'm going to I want to incorporate that. And then Rio is more anecdotal because when I first went to a web summit event in Lisbon, I think 2018
and then WebSummit in Toronto is called Collision. When I did that in Toronto, it was a lot more the floor tech product entrepreneurs. So I do want to walk around and be like, hey, is there more of a creator presence? Granted, it's
another geography, but so I basically said, go to Rio, kind of finish all the the points, the notes, and then when I come back, release it, you know, either in a few weeks from now or maybe even at the end
of these 20 episodes kind of as the culmination. But I did feel that like it would be a shame not to use Rio. And I did my second documentary, Fox in the Hen House, literally at Salt in Vegas at Anthony Scaramucci. So, I usually use
those settings a bit for, you know, fodder. Cool. So, documentary still incoming, but uh coming. Yeah. Yeah. TBD. But, uh in the meantime, next week we'll be talking about 2022 and the end of the Zerp era, which uh to be honest,
that'll be uh interesting for me. The Which was Oh, there you go. Yeah. Which was a major game changer in uh in in the economy and our industry as well, just through a ricochet effect. Fantastic.
always, Ash. It's always a fascinating conversation. Thank you. You're too kind. Uh and thank you for everybody who watched and we'll see you again next week. Take care, everybody. Go Habs, go. Go Habs, go.