[0:00] Can a project at DC Studios take off
[0:02] without James Gunn being the writer
[0:04] director of it? James Gunn, you promised
[0:06] us we would be getting rocksolid
[0:07] scripts, and this script is not rock
[0:10] solid. [music] Immediately 59% on Rotten
[0:12] Tomatoes. Peter Saffron and James Gun
[0:14] were like, "This is going to be inspired
[0:15] by Tom Kings and Billy. Evelyn's Woman
[0:17] of Tomorrow comic story line in Junkits.
[0:19] They were like, um, just kidding.
[0:20] Actually, [music] we didn't." It feels
[0:22] like the people who worked on this movie
[0:23] and Warner Brothers knew that there were
[0:25] issues with this. I don't think we
[0:27] should be immediately putting James Gun
[0:29] to like the highest standard of
[0:30] screenwriting. I don't think he's like
[0:32] the greatest screenwriter of all time.
[0:33] >> I honestly think like James Gun is still
[0:35] like a valuable asset to the Ellison no
[0:38] matter what. Matt Reeves the Batman is
[0:40] going to cook. The question will be this
[0:42] other DCU movie that they want Supergirl
[0:45] to be a part of in 2028. If if you're
[0:47] trying to write this type of franchise
[0:48] film, your movie has to be a hit. You
[0:51] had a win. You had an easy win. And for
[0:53] whatever reason, they chose to like make
[0:55] it hard [music] for themselves. Welcome
[0:56] back to New Rockstars. Supergirl is now
[0:58] in theaters. It's the second film of the
[1:00] DC Studios era under the leadership of
[1:02] James Gunn and Peter Saffron. And the
[1:04] reception for the film in its opening
[1:06] weekend has been mixed. As we look ahead
[1:08] to the future of this franchise, it's
[1:10] really time to talk about the state of
[1:12] DC Studios.
[1:14] >> Yes, this is the sneak peek, the weekly
[1:15] show here at New Rockstars, where we
[1:17] look ahead to the future of fandom with
[1:18] your host Jessica Clemens and Eric Voss.
[1:20] >> Hello Jessica. Yes, it's time to talk
[1:21] about the state of DC. Our breakdown of
[1:24] the full Supergirl film for all the
[1:26] Easter eggs and comic book references is
[1:28] on the channel. It came out on Friday.
[1:30] Uh here we're just kind of like checking
[1:32] in with like this insane discourse that
[1:34] we've been in throughout this weekend.
[1:36] Obviously, it's a turbulent time at
[1:37] Warner Brothers as a studio with the
[1:40] Paramount Sky Dance Company run by the
[1:42] Ellison's David Ellison CEO is planning
[1:44] to acquire this company. The Justiceart
[1:47] Department approved that merger. It's
[1:48] probably going to be happening at the
[1:50] end of this year. Um, uh, so a lot
[1:52] there's been a lot of talk like, uhoh,
[1:54] if Supergirl underperforms, is James
[1:56] Gunn going to get fired? No, that's not
[1:59] >> a crazy catch. That'd be a crazy
[2:01] contract deal, one movie.
[2:03] >> Yeah. And it wouldn't be based off of
[2:04] this one movie. It's going to take a few
[2:06] more failures for that to happen. Um, or
[2:09] James Gunn, I think, would just choose
[2:11] to leave. But I I think there's like a
[2:13] few other movies that are going to be
[2:14] coming out either way, including
[2:16] Clayface, Man of Tomorrow, the the
[2:19] Batman by Matt Reeves, and then a
[2:20] follow-up to Man of Tomorrow, The
[2:22] Lantern series is coming out. Uh but we
[2:24] should take a little snapshot of where
[2:26] we're at right now. So, um Supergirl is
[2:29] still currently in theaters. By the time
[2:30] you're watching this video, you may know
[2:31] what the opening weekend box office is.
[2:33] We're recording it a few days early, but
[2:35] it it's currently projected to make 70
[2:37] or 47 million in the opening weekend.
[2:40] 47. Now, that's way lower than some of
[2:42] the projections you saw in the weeks
[2:43] leading up to it. 70 million, 80 million
[2:46] domestic, something like that. We're
[2:47] going to talk about why you may have
[2:49] seen some of those high ball
[2:50] projections. Uh, and it's projected to
[2:53] make somewhere around 90 million global.
[2:56] U, but the Rotten Tomato score, it it
[2:59] came out immediately 59% on Rotten
[3:01] Tomatoes. And then over the past week
[3:03] with all different kinds of critics
[3:05] reviews coming in, it's been kind of
[3:06] hovering from the 50s to the 60s. Uh, by
[3:09] the time we started recording this
[3:11] podcast, it was at 57%, but that number
[3:13] may have changed by the time you're
[3:15] watching this. Um, in particular, you
[3:17] may have seen going around a review from
[3:19] the Variety critic Owen Gberman, a
[3:21] critic I highly highly respect. I grew
[3:24] up reading his reviews in Entertainment
[3:25] Weekly, and I generally agree with his
[3:27] takes, even if he's a little grouchy
[3:29] about like superhero cinema in general.
[3:31] He's he's like the closest I think we
[3:33] have to Roger Eert. He's very fair, and
[3:36] he writes really great reviews. And in
[3:38] this case, he gave a scathing review of
[3:39] the film. And I'm going to read this
[3:41] quote that he gave. I think this is
[3:43] really the the crux of his frustration
[3:45] with this film. He writes, "James Gun,
[3:47] along with Peter Saffron, knew that he
[3:49] was launching DC Studios right into the
[3:51] teeth of superhero fatigue. Gun got
[3:53] asked a lot about how he was going to
[3:55] avoid that, and the key thing he said
[3:57] was, "We're not going into production on
[4:00] any movie until the script we have is
[4:02] rock solid." For that was the overriding
[4:04] problem with the superhero overkill era.
[4:07] The films had lousy scripts which were
[4:09] used as grids on which to layer the
[4:11] visual effects. Gun was right to want to
[4:14] take the comic book genre back to well
[4:16] ststructured screenwriting basics. So
[4:18] what has he done in his second DC
[4:20] outing? He's given us a comic book movie
[4:22] with the worst script I can remember.
[4:24] End quote. From Owen Gleberman from
[4:26] Variety. Um so as we talk about this
[4:29] movie, I have seen it. Jessica, you have
[4:32] not seen it yet?
[4:32] >> I have not seen it. I see it tonight.
[4:34] >> Okay. Jessica's seen it tonight. So,
[4:35] we're not really going to be getting
[4:36] into a review of the movie. We're just
[4:38] going to be talking about the discourse
[4:39] and what we've heard about this movie
[4:40] and the current state of DC Studios.
[4:42] But, I can just say I I had issues and
[4:46] frustrations with this film. You can go
[4:47] to my letter box. I gave it a three out
[4:49] of 10 on my letter box. I know it's
[4:50] really harsh on the film, but I'm still
[4:53] I really like the casting of Millie Alco
[4:55] in general. I like the I I still have a
[4:57] lot of confidence in the state and the
[4:59] future of DC Studios. It's just this
[5:01] script does underserve the character. Is
[5:04] it the worst comic book movie script I
[5:06] can remember? Owen Gleberman, you got to
[5:07] stretch your memory muscles. We can you
[5:09] not remember Morbius?
[5:10] >> I think I mean, yeah, he's not including
[5:12] Morbius. He's not including Ghost Rider
[5:14] 2. He's not he's not keeping in mind
[5:16] like the the Fantastic 4 movie that
[5:18] never came out. Like he's he's just like
[5:21] of recent years.
[5:22] >> Yeah, there have been quite a few really
[5:23] really bad ones. And I think the script
[5:25] has a lot of problems with it. It's not
[5:27] the worst, but it's also not
[5:29] particularly great. And I and I share
[5:31] his frustration. James Gun, you promised
[5:33] us we would be getting rocksolid
[5:35] scripts, and this script is not rock
[5:37] solid. It has major issues. Now, I I
[5:39] think most people will like it more than
[5:41] my three out of 10 review. Um, so I I
[5:44] I've made peace with that. Um, but uh
[5:47] there are just a lot of issues with it.
[5:49] And I think we should track like what we
[5:51] know about this movie. When it was first
[5:53] announced, it was called Supergirl Woman
[5:54] of Tomorrow. That was going to be the
[5:56] title of the movie, but then at some
[5:57] point later, it was just revised to just
[5:58] Supergirl. But still, Peter Saffron and
[6:00] James Gun were like, "This is going to
[6:01] be inspired by Tom Kings and Billy Eve's
[6:04] Woman of Tomorrow's comic storyline."
[6:06] But just in the weeks before the
[6:07] release, when Anna Aguero and um and
[6:10] Craig Gillespie got in front of people
[6:12] asking them questions in the press tour
[6:15] in Junkits, they were like, "Um, I'm
[6:16] just kidding. Actually, we didn't really
[6:18] pull pull it from the graphic novel
[6:20] storyline." Um Craig Gillespie is like,
[6:22] "I didn't even read it. I just looked at
[6:24] Andra's script and got my shot list from
[6:26] that." And then after I got my shot
[6:28] list, I flipped through the comics and I
[6:30] found some images that I kind of liked.
[6:32] Like it was clear that these two
[6:33] creatives really wanted nothing to do
[6:35] with this source material. And you could
[6:37] take issue with Tom King. A lot of
[6:38] people are like, "Good. I don't like Tom
[6:40] King as a writer. That's that's a take
[6:42] that like, okay, fine, we could talk
[6:43] about that." But like, specifically,
[6:45] whatever your issues are with Tom King
[6:47] as a writer in general, this particular
[6:49] graphic novel storyline is praised. It
[6:52] is really wellliked and it's the reason
[6:54] why I think James Gun was excited to
[6:55] greenlight this.
[6:56] >> This script just zigs in so many ways
[6:58] that that comic story line zags. And
[7:00] again, we're not going to review
[7:02] >> we're not going to review the movie
[7:03] here, but one thing that uh Jessica and
[7:05] I did see at SinCon, you remember seeing
[7:07] the panel for Supergirl with with
[7:11] >> uh
[7:11] >> Oh my god. Oh my god.
[7:14] >> That's James Gun calling right now.
[7:15] Don't don't tell them. Don't talk.
[7:17] >> We're not friends.
[7:18] >> We ain't friends. James Gun was not
[7:20] there at Vegas and we didn't want to
[7:22] read too much into that. We knew he was
[7:23] busy with pre-production for Man of
[7:25] Tomorrow, but Peter Saffron was there
[7:27] chatting with Craig Gillespie, Millie
[7:28] AOK, and Jason Mamoa. And it was really
[7:30] kind of like the lowest energy
[7:32] presentation we saw the full week at
[7:34] Cineacon.
[7:35] >> Yeah.
[7:36] >> Yeah. And it's almost it feels like the
[7:38] people who worked on this movie and
[7:40] Warner Brothers knew that there were
[7:41] issues with this.
[7:43] >> Possibly. I think Millie I've been
[7:44] watching a lot of interviews with Millie
[7:46] and she does seem low energy though in
[7:47] other interviews. like it seemed like
[7:49] across the board this is how she acts in
[7:51] interviews which is I'm not saying it's
[7:53] fair it's more so that I haven't had a
[7:55] chance to see her in anything else
[7:57] really except for House of the Dragon in
[7:59] which she wasn't supposed to be as in
[8:00] there as long as she was so we don't
[8:02] really get a lot of time talking to
[8:03] actual Millie Alox and she might just be
[8:05] one of those interviewers that doesn't
[8:07] want to be there she's young too so it's
[8:10] like she hasn't had to deal with it for
[8:11] like 20 years like everyone else has
[8:13] she's like oh this is just disruptive
[8:16] like and I don't care I'm just an actor
[8:17] that acts.
[8:18] >> Yeah. And I I really don't blame her at
[8:20] all. I don't think she is the problem at
[8:22] all with this movie. In fact, she's
[8:23] she's really well cast in this. She just
[8:26] has this innate coolness that like movie
[8:28] stars just kind of magically have. The
[8:30] fact that like she went from House of
[8:32] the Dragon playing young Rainer
[8:33] Targaryen really well, speaking multiple
[8:36] languages to just being like a natural
[8:38] star on the big screen. I'm like, damn,
[8:40] it's cool how some people can just do
[8:42] that. And she does in this movie. It's
[8:44] just the story around her
[8:46] >> is I had issues with it. Um, and I think
[8:49] she was really great in Superman. I
[8:50] think she'll be really great in Mana
[8:52] tomorrow. I think they really cast her
[8:53] well. I don't have a problem with
[8:55] someone's low energy on a press junket.
[8:57] That's it's not all on her to promote
[8:59] this movie. Um, but I have heard some
[9:02] rumors, I don't know if they're true,
[9:04] that like there was an issue with this
[9:07] movie in early 2025 where James Gun
[9:10] working with other people at the studio
[9:11] might have taken it away from Craig
[9:13] Gillespie to do kind of like a death
[9:15] saving throw re-edit of the movie.
[9:17] >> When you watch this movie, you'll see
[9:18] the editing in many sequences is like,
[9:21] whoa, this is an odd
[9:23] >> this is odd. The the movie just feels
[9:25] kind of reassembled in a lot of ways.
[9:27] Um, I haven't seen a single review out
[9:29] there praising the editing of this
[9:31] movie. Interesting.
[9:31] >> Um, I don't know if that's true. That's
[9:33] just a rumor that I've heard. Um, and
[9:36] um, another thing we can report here, if
[9:38] you listen to the Town podcast, they
[9:40] talk about how a lot of PR firms, and
[9:44] you know this, you've worked in PR,
[9:46] they're they're doing paid social media
[9:48] clipping. And this is not necessarily
[9:50] new. They've been doing it for the past
[9:51] few years. Justin Baldon's legal and PR
[9:53] team did this. Um, uh, even like there
[9:57] were like Zack Snyder and when Justice
[10:00] League came out, that was like, you
[10:02] know, 8 years ago, they were doing this
[10:03] back then, too. But clipping refers to
[10:06] um when people will write organic tweets
[10:09] or or post organic um Tik Tok reactions,
[10:12] they'll pay to promote those things
[10:15] through like whole teams of people and
[10:18] bots that are basically reposting that
[10:20] with some of the same talking points.
[10:21] And this I'm probably talking to you and
[10:23] you're like, "Yeah, I know. I've seen
[10:24] that. I've seen where people are just
[10:25] saying the same thing on my TikTok and
[10:27] reals and it's just a person, but
[10:29] they're literally saying the same
[10:30] talking points. Specifically, Warner
[10:33] Brothers has been doing that. I'm not
[10:34] talking about like paid reviews and
[10:36] shills. We'll talk about that in a
[10:38] second, but I'm just talking about like
[10:39] when people are talking about like their
[10:40] hype for this movie. Wow, the hype is
[10:42] crazy. Wow, this movie is going to make
[10:44] $100 million domestic. that might have
[10:46] been originally an or organic tweet that
[10:48] someone or an aggregator wrote, but the
[10:50] reason you're seeing it so much is
[10:53] because that Warner Brothers knows that
[10:55] that is a divisive take that's going to
[10:57] get a lot of engagement. So, they paid
[10:58] for that thing to be amplified. So, that
[11:01] has been happening a lot and it's not
[11:03] new, but it's been happening a lot with
[11:04] Supergirl and it's happening a lot with
[11:06] House of the Dragons new season.
[11:08] [clears throat] Um, now a lot of you are
[11:10] like, "Yeah, well also influencers were
[11:12] paid there. This happens with every
[11:15] movie, every major movie. They do media
[11:17] events, they do meet and greets with the
[11:19] cast, they do set visits, they do um
[11:23] these little uh like um parties or
[11:26] whatever where like certain press or
[11:28] certain Tik Tockers are invited. Uh they
[11:30] do media screenings at film theaters
[11:32] around the LA area. Um that happens.
[11:35] That's not new for Supergirl. They
[11:37] Disney does that. Universal does that.
[11:38] Sony does that. They all do it. They all
[11:40] do it. And it happened again. So, we're
[11:42] not saying like, oh, this was like a ma
[11:44] a matter of desperation, but what I can
[11:46] say is like um talking with the people I
[11:48] talked to at Warner Brothers, they um
[11:51] >> they they seem like more understanding
[11:53] that this movie is going to have a mixed
[11:56] response and they're okay with that. I
[11:58] think they went into this movie knowing
[11:59] that.
[12:00] >> Yeah.
[12:00] >> And they're not trying to like change
[12:02] that narrative. They just want people
[12:04] talking about it at all.
[12:05] >> Yeah. I think naturally you're going to
[12:07] with a Supergirl.
[12:08] >> Yeah. I think they knew that already.
[12:10] And then on top of that, this script
[12:12] also, despite it being written by a
[12:15] woman, despite it having a character
[12:16] like Millie Alak, despite someone who
[12:19] has a an agenda of trying to write
[12:21] strong female characters like James Gun
[12:22] did, I think they I think they missed
[12:24] the mark with this one despite all that.
[12:26] >> Yeah,
[12:27] >> it's it's a shame. I think a lot of us
[12:28] went into wanting to see this. And I
[12:30] think if you're watching this now, maybe
[12:31] you are one of the people who are like,
[12:32] "What are they talking about?" I I love
[12:34] this movie. And I hope there are a lot
[12:36] of you out there. Um, I hope that like
[12:38] Hollywood doesn't learn the wrong
[12:39] lessons from this, but I do think, uh,
[12:42] just to kind of give you guys a sense of
[12:44] where we're at right now, um, in the
[12:47] opening weekend, uh, or it was like the
[12:49] the release, uh, at the red carpet, um,
[12:52] we had an executive producer on this
[12:54] movie who confirmed that Man of Tomorrow
[12:58] is shooting right now in Atlanta and
[12:59] that Millie Alco will return as
[13:01] Supergirl in Man of Tomorrow. And he
[13:03] also said um uh the way this movie ends,
[13:06] you're going to see where she ends up.
[13:07] If you've seen the movie now, you kind
[13:09] of get a bit of a sense um of like where
[13:12] we'll see her next, but they said that
[13:13] there's going to be another DCU movie
[13:15] after Man of Tomorrow that Supergirl
[13:17] will be a big part of as well. So, Man
[13:19] of Tomorrow, summer 2027. They're saying
[13:21] in summer 2028, there's going to be
[13:23] another DCU Supergirl movie that she's
[13:26] going to be part of it.
[13:27] >> Um and uh they said this is Lars P.
[13:30] Winther. He's an executive producer on
[13:31] this movie at DC Studios. And he said
[13:33] that he and James Gunn and Peter Saffron
[13:35] actually met with David Ellison. He said
[13:37] that David Ellison came to Trill Studios
[13:38] in Atlanta. That's where they shoot all
[13:40] their movies that James directs. Uh and
[13:42] he says David Ellison came to Atlanta.
[13:44] We showed him everything and we're
[13:45] having discussions with him. He said,
[13:46] quote, "He's pretty open to what we're
[13:48] doing. We do have a slate and a lot of
[13:51] it obviously Clayface is already coming
[13:53] out. We already have the Lanterns TV
[13:54] show on those things. The trains left
[13:56] the station so we're good." but he's a
[13:59] big fan and he's been great with us.
[14:01] He's giving us kind of what we want. So
[14:04] far, everything's good. So, despite
[14:06] whatever your takes are on Supergirl,
[14:08] the movies and shows that have already
[14:10] been shot or are in production,
[14:12] >> that includes Lanterns coming out in
[14:14] August, August [clears throat] 16th on
[14:15] HBO, Clayface coming October 26th to
[14:18] theaters, Man of Tomorrow coming July
[14:20] 7th, 2027 next summer. Uh, the Batman
[14:23] coming October 1st, 2027. And then and
[14:27] then that's like everything that's for
[14:29] sure coming out. The question will be
[14:32] this other DCU movie that they want
[14:34] Supergirl to be a part of in 2028
[14:36] >> up in the air and then all the other
[14:38] titles that they've announced before,
[14:39] including the Authority,
[14:41] um, a Wonder Woman movie.
[14:43] >> Oh, well, I think Creature Commando
[14:45] season 2, I think the animated ones are
[14:47] still moving forward. Creature Commandos
[14:48] and Dynamic Duo are still coming. But
[14:50] it's like if this movie really
[14:52] underperforms, you may you're gonna see
[14:54] a lot of discourse that like I know
[14:56] Grace [snorts] Randolph was already said
[14:57] like DC Studios needs to take Wonder
[14:59] Woman away from Anna Aguera. I think
[15:01] that's premature.
[15:02] >> Um I but I can understand there are
[15:04] major script problems in this. I think
[15:06] like this isn't the immediate success
[15:09] that uh the studio and the fans are
[15:11] going to be that excited to see the
[15:12] screenwriter be kind of like James Gun's
[15:14] main go-to screenwriter other than
[15:16] himself. Yeah, it's unfortunate that you
[15:18] like because I don't agree with Grace
[15:21] Randolph, but I also don't disagree in
[15:23] the terms of like Wonder Woman and
[15:25] Supergirl are two top like tiers for
[15:29] what it seems like they were already
[15:30] structuring it around Superman, Batman,
[15:33] Supergirl, and Wonder Woman. So, I'm
[15:35] like, okay, of these four, if the same
[15:37] girl that did Supergirl is going to do
[15:39] Wonder Woman, we need to talk about it.
[15:41] Or at least maybe she learns from the
[15:43] situation. I don't know. It's hard
[15:44] because it's like I haven't seen the
[15:45] movie yet. But I'm also like
[15:48] I feel like being like James Gunn the
[15:52] script sucked and you said you looked at
[15:54] it. I don't think we should be
[15:56] immediately putting James Gun to like
[15:58] the highest standard of screenwriting. I
[16:00] don't think he's like the greatest
[16:01] screenwriter of all time. And so I could
[16:03] see him seeing the script and being like
[16:04] this could be adjusted. This should be
[16:06] adjusted. And it's still being not a
[16:08] great script.
[16:08] >> Yeah, it's his he wears a lot of hats as
[16:11] the head of DC Studios. It's his job to
[16:13] manage the franchise. the creative
[16:15] direction of the franchise and like that
[16:18] includes a lot of things. It includes
[16:20] like managing fan expectation. It
[16:22] includes like in his the way he's carved
[16:24] out his job to direct his own films and
[16:26] write his own films. Sometimes he's even
[16:28] talked a lot. I think that's why Owen
[16:30] Gberman's like uh indictment is kind of
[16:33] valid because James Gunn has put himself
[16:34] out there a lot saying like I give notes
[16:36] on everything. We're doing things
[16:38] different here at DC Studios than the
[16:40] way Marvel did them. You're not going to
[16:41] see the same superhero fatigue in the
[16:43] way we do it. So, like when this script
[16:45] does get a mixed reception from critics,
[16:46] it's like he does have the answer for
[16:48] >> I'm confused because I'm like, did we
[16:50] think that he was the greatest person of
[16:52] all time?
[16:52] >> I guess that's I guess that's what I'm
[16:54] confused with. It's just cuz I'm like
[16:55] James Gunner has great movies 100%. But
[16:57] I also love his movies that are like
[17:00] they're they're great movies, but I
[17:02] would never be like, you know what, this
[17:03] is the greatest script I've ever seen in
[17:05] my entire life. And so that's why I'm
[17:07] like, why are we holding him to the
[17:09] standard that he is the gold standard of
[17:11] screenwriting? And I'm like I think
[17:13] that's the only part where I'm confused.
[17:15] Like I don't think anyone's going to get
[17:16] to uh be best for everybody. Even like
[17:19] Christopher Nolan writes [ __ ] that you
[17:20] guys hate. But it's like
[17:22] >> I I we're all going to have grievances
[17:24] with someone. And I do think that my
[17:26] personality my personally with James
[17:27] Gunn I'm like yeah I love watching your
[17:29] movies. They are so fun. I can rewatch
[17:31] them all the time. But I never looked at
[17:32] it as I look at Logan.
[17:34] >> So I'm like
[17:36] >> referring to the 2017 Logan film.
[17:38] >> What what Logan do you think I'm talking
[17:39] about?
[17:39] >> My son.
[17:40] >> Your son. Well, nothing can nothing can
[17:42] be like Logan Voss. Nothing is going to
[17:44] be like that. That is the best thing in
[17:47] the world. [laughter]
[17:48] >> No one can come up with that.
[17:48] >> But no, no, I hear what you're saying. I
[17:50] think um we we should be very careful
[17:51] holding him to too high of a superlative
[17:53] status. I do think James Gunn is like up
[17:56] there with the best like franchise
[17:58] worldbuilders,
[17:59] >> franchise world building.
[18:00] >> And and I think that is something where
[18:02] the Supergirl movie struggles. I don't
[18:03] think it's outrightly bad. And one big
[18:05] thing I disagree with Owen Gberman on,
[18:06] he's like really critical of like the
[18:08] the puppetry of this movie, the
[18:10] practical puppetry. He was saying like I
[18:12] disagree with the takes that uh cinema
[18:14] changed in a negative way when Star Wars
[18:17] and ET and these other and Jaws came
[18:19] out. Um because he's but he's like I do
[18:21] kind of agree that too many movies are
[18:23] trying to do the mostly Cantina scene
[18:25] and that might have had an adverse
[18:27] impact on the industry. I think really
[18:29] he's throwing shade at the Mandalorian
[18:30] and Grou a little bit when he says that.
[18:32] I think old man Gleberman's like, I
[18:34] hated having to sit through all these
[18:35] puppetry. I love practical puppetry in
[18:37] movies.
[18:37] >> Yeah, same.
[18:38] >> I was born in 1988. It's the only world
[18:40] that I know and I'm I'm grateful for it.
[18:43] And I like that part of Supergirl. I I
[18:45] like that preferred to the CGI [ __ ]
[18:48] that we've seen too much of. But uh but
[18:49] I think what he's saying is that um in
[18:51] terms of franchise world building um
[18:54] like the tone of this movie does not
[18:56] have the same kind of open-ended feel
[18:58] that Guardians of the Galaxy did.
[19:00] instead. Like I think critics are really
[19:02] struggling for an analog and they keep
[19:04] reaching out to Mad Max in terms of like
[19:06] the the dirt and the soot and the um the
[19:10] punk feel of it, the leather of it all.
[19:13] And I don't even think Mad Max is an
[19:14] accurate description for it. Maybe Heavy
[19:16] Metal Heavy Metal might the animated
[19:18] heavy metal uh movie from the 80s might
[19:20] be a good Oh, you should watch it. It's
[19:22] insane. [laughter] It's an insane movie.
[19:24] >> Even that I'm like even if we were like,
[19:26] "Oh, you're used to doing these." I'm
[19:27] like, "Yeah, but then you hired Anna."
[19:28] So, it's like you're going to have Anna
[19:30] write a Guardians movie or you're going
[19:31] to have Anna write this kind of movie.
[19:32] Anna's going to write her own type of
[19:34] movie. We can get mad at how Anna wrote,
[19:36] but it's like you guys put faith in her.
[19:38] So, what the hell's going on here?
[19:39] [laughter]
[19:40] What the hell's going on here?
[19:41] >> I I I think there um like there's going
[19:44] to be forces at Warner Brothers who put
[19:46] pressure on James Gunn and Peter Saffron
[19:47] to be like, get a new writer in here
[19:49] because she's unproven. And this is just
[19:52] something I know from like follow I used
[19:54] to try to be a screenwriter myself. I
[19:55] listened to every episode of Script
[19:57] Notes for a while. I was on an episode
[19:58] of Script Notes and listening to Craig
[20:00] and John talk, they show that like if if
[20:02] you're trying to write this type of
[20:04] franchise
[20:05] >> um franchise film, your movie has to be
[20:08] a hit. Your movie like it doesn't matter
[20:11] if like the director botched it. Like,
[20:13] and this happens all the time. There
[20:14] happens where like the script is subpar,
[20:16] but like the movie made a [ __ ] ton of
[20:19] money. Aquaman 2018 Aquaman, that script
[20:22] isn't that great. But because like James
[20:24] Juan made a billion dollar movie with
[20:26] it, all the screenwriters are gonna get
[20:28] work afterwards.
[20:28] >> That's the shitty thing though is like
[20:29] which I mean I'm sure she already takes
[20:31] this into consideration. She has a lot
[20:33] more hurdles and obstacles than Aquaman
[20:35] does. I will also say Aquaman was a very
[20:38] low bar [laughter] for the for the DC.
[20:40] It was like, okay, I'm I'm hating
[20:42] everything that's coming out. And then
[20:43] Aquaman was just fun. Aquaman was so
[20:45] much fun. It was so much fun. Um and
[20:47] also, oh my god, that merch. That merch
[20:49] immediately. Yes, 100%. But Supergirl
[20:52] already has so many limitations and they
[20:54] already didn't like package a lot of
[20:55] their press stuff that great. So it's
[20:57] like what am I excited for? And I don't
[20:59] know what's happening. So I'm like damn
[21:01] girl. But you are right where it's like
[21:03] unfortunately these movies do have to be
[21:04] a hit. I don't care if it's like bad and
[21:06] like great for families but it has to be
[21:08] a hit. And if it's not I I feel like
[21:11] with Supergirl you weren't going to
[21:12] really appease for a family. Like
[21:14] families aren't going to see Supergirl
[21:16] unfortunately. But like you need to
[21:17] appease to something. you need to you
[21:19] need to have something that's I don't
[21:20] know I don't know again I have not seen
[21:22] this movie um I will also say I think
[21:24] Owen's take is very valid and great
[21:27] >> and I always go back to what Joe says um
[21:29] from the house of our podcast of the
[21:31] ring
[21:31] >> Joanna Robinson
[21:32] >> Joanna Robinson that's like it's up to
[21:34] you to find the critics that really
[21:36] resonate with you and if this person's
[21:38] entire scathing review is like to you
[21:40] the viewer audience person listening
[21:42] right now is like I would never feel
[21:44] this way about like this than this guy
[21:46] that's completely okay that is 100% %
[21:48] okay like that there there's a reason
[21:50] why you probably don't you listen to him
[21:51] but you would listen to Grace Randolph
[21:52] or you would go somewhere else like
[21:54] that's the whole point of being like a
[21:55] very a lot of critics uh Robert I think
[21:59] kind of feeds into like a lot of
[22:00] people's consensus but I think going to
[22:02] find the person that writes reviews for
[22:05] movies like this in ways that you like
[22:06] you can find it um and they probably
[22:08] will be like I don't think it's as bad
[22:10] you know how many reviews I read from
[22:12] other black people that were like
[22:13] sinners is a mockery
[22:14] >> like there was a lot of people that were
[22:16] black that hated sinners and there's a
[22:17] black people that love sinners. It's
[22:18] like it it takes you having to figure
[22:20] out who you're who who you who you ride
[22:22] with.
[22:23] >> Totally. And I I do have to defend Owen
[22:25] Gberman. There were some incorrect quote
[22:27] tweets and takes saying that he was the
[22:28] person at Variety who [ __ ] on sinners
[22:31] and said it was going to underperform.
[22:32] No, Owenberman. Owen Gberman loved
[22:35] Sinners and he was one of the people at
[22:37] Variety who sang its praises and was
[22:38] championing the work that Ryan Cougler
[22:40] did. Um, it was some box office
[22:42] reporting, but it was someone else, but
[22:44] it was a variety.
[22:45] >> It was a variety box office reporter who
[22:48] underpredicted the success of the movie
[22:50] and and she just got it wrong. She
[22:52] clocked it wrong. But I think a lot of
[22:54] people were surprised at how well that
[22:55] movie did and we're all happy that it
[22:57] did well. U but yes, uh Owen was not one
[23:00] of the people and also Owen was one of
[23:01] the people who loved Superman. He he
[23:03] didn't think it was a perfect film, but
[23:04] I think he said James Gun what he
[23:06] cringed at. And I again I disagree with
[23:08] this take as well from Owen's review
[23:09] that um that the whole scene with Clark
[23:13] and Lois the the 11minute argument
[23:16] scene.
[23:16] >> I love that scene is my favorite scene
[23:18] in the in the apartment when they're
[23:19] going back and forth.
[23:20] >> He said that he loved the scene as well,
[23:21] but he cringed when he when they started
[23:22] talking about what punk rock means.
[23:25] >> They're cartoony.
[23:26] >> It's a it's a comic book movie, but it's
[23:27] an actual comic book made into a movie.
[23:29] I I love this.
[23:30] >> I didn't cringe. I I understood what
[23:31] James Gun was trying to do with it. And
[23:33] that's kind of his deeper theme of the
[23:34] movie. And I really love the way that
[23:36] came back in the final scene of the
[23:37] film. But I understand I understood the
[23:39] validity of of what Owen was trying to
[23:41] say and that like
[23:43] >> the he was trying to set up his argument
[23:44] for Supergirl and that Superman
[23:48] >> uh was like this nerdy boy scout trying
[23:50] to say like this is what punk rock means
[23:52] to me. But the moment you call something
[23:54] punk rock, you kind of kill the punk of
[23:56] it.
[23:56] >> Yeah, you kill the punk.
[23:57] >> Um he's not wrong about that either cuz
[23:59] like no way Sid Vicious would ever allow
[24:01] himself to be called punk rock. he's
[24:03] just doing something else with the Sex
[24:04] Pistols. Um, similarly,
[24:07] uh, the Supergirl movie, it kind of
[24:10] wears punk rock on its sleeve too much
[24:12] with all of its needle drops. I I do
[24:14] think, um, the the general strategy is
[24:17] still overall worth continuing at DC
[24:21] Studios. Craig Gillespie has talked
[24:22] about this in interviews, how James Gunn
[24:24] told him that um, every he wants every
[24:27] movie to feel like its own graphic novel
[24:29] as opposed to something that all has to
[24:31] interconnect. And so, like, if Supergirl
[24:33] doesn't work out as well as it did, but
[24:35] if Lantern still is like one of the
[24:37] coolest HBO mystery box series you've
[24:39] ever seen, the the health of the DC
[24:41] Studios slate is still intact. You know,
[24:44] >> I think they can afford to have some
[24:46] drops, especially this early in their
[24:48] career. Uh there's only been two movies,
[24:49] you guys. So, it's like, yeah, one is
[24:51] there's no way they're going to make 12
[24:53] movies and all of them are great.
[24:54] >> Yeah. I and and for anyone saying that
[24:56] it was a miscalculation to have a
[24:58] Supergirl movie second, no, I I I
[25:00] [clears throat] still think it was a
[25:02] smart overall strategic decision to
[25:04] follow up Superman with Supergirl. I
[25:06] mean, the way Millie Alcott comes into
[25:08] that movie at the end of Superman is is
[25:10] still really fun. It's just the and the
[25:12] casting of the character again and the
[25:14] whole idea of Krypto really cool. I I
[25:17] get the idea to follow it up. It's just
[25:19] like this particular story didn't work
[25:21] out. It's great. And uh and we'll we'll
[25:24] hear more about like the problems with
[25:26] the creative direction of this movie in
[25:28] the weeks ahead. But
[25:29] >> I I'd also argue that I don't think
[25:30] you'd forget her scene in Superman for
[25:32] sure. Like it was very great. It's very
[25:34] loud, very boisterous. But I also think
[25:36] like coming right after Superman makes
[25:38] more sense because of that. If it came
[25:40] out 2 years later, you'd be like, "Oh
[25:41] yeah, what was she doing? She was a
[25:43] drunk person that flew into like his his
[25:45] house. Like who was she again?" It it
[25:48] makes sense to come right after the
[25:49] other. That way we don't lose that same
[25:50] like heat that came off of Superman. And
[25:52] and it wasn't even like one year. It was
[25:55] only 11 months, right? Cuz Superman came
[25:58] out in July, like the first week of
[25:59] July.
[25:59] >> Yeah.
[26:00] >> So, yeah, it wasn't it wasn't a full
[26:01] year, but it it's still fresh in your
[26:02] memory where she was in Superman.
[26:04] >> The um the best parts of Supergirl in my
[26:07] opinion are the whole like DC mythology
[26:09] stuff we get into when we go back to
[26:11] Krypton, go back to Argo City, when
[26:13] she's interacting with her cousin Call.
[26:15] I'm like this. I love living in this
[26:17] world right now. this is this is like
[26:19] the exact DC Studios vision that I want.
[26:22] So that's why I'm kind of still
[26:23] optimistic about the state of DC
[26:24] Studios. I'm I'm willing to still um see
[26:28] what like Lanterns has cooking up for
[26:30] us. I think I'm really excited for Man
[26:31] of Tomorrow. I'm really excited for Matt
[26:33] Reeves the Batman. Um, but I do think
[26:36] like if if Clayface underperforms and if
[26:39] like and if James Gunn can't get because
[26:41] I think the the ultimate test for James
[26:43] Gun as a franchise studio head is can a
[26:47] project at DC Studios take off without
[26:49] James Gunn being the writer director of
[26:51] it. And so Clayface I think is is an
[26:53] important test and I think Lanterns is
[26:55] an important test.
[26:56] >> I think Supergirl was important in that
[26:57] regard.
[26:58] >> Yeah.
[26:59] >> Yeah. And so like if you have three
[27:01] strikes, if if if Clayface is like
[27:04] considered a misfire where they're like,
[27:05] "What were they thinking with this?" If
[27:07] Lanterns just feels like a really bad
[27:10] kind of like streaming series where it
[27:13] really just feels like it was re-shot,
[27:16] rewritten on the fly. And if you have
[27:19] like I think we'll know in October,
[27:21] early November, right around the time
[27:23] when the Paramount Warner Brothers deal
[27:24] is going to close. Like if all three of
[27:26] those are
[27:28] >> bad,
[27:28] >> considered bad by the general public.
[27:30] >> No, but he shouldn't be working on them.
[27:31] And not only because of his time,
[27:33] because he literally cannot do
[27:35] everything. Also because I think he
[27:37] benefits in the realm that he did like
[27:39] him doing Superman made sense. He was
[27:41] like, and he even talked about how it
[27:43] came from where he was with his dad. And
[27:45] we see that, we hear that. The the feel
[27:47] of this man was in Superman. But I don't
[27:50] need to see him doing a horror version
[27:53] of Clayface. I don't know if he can. I
[27:54] don't want to see him doing an all women
[27:57] the mascara. Like I don't know if he
[27:59] can. I don't need to see him do
[28:00] lanterns. I want to see two people that
[28:02] work with detective shows do lanterns.
[28:04] It's like I do think he would shoot
[28:05] himself in the foot if he takes on too
[28:06] many genres that he's not used to doing.
[28:08] >> Mhm.
[28:08] >> And that's why I'm like I don't even
[28:10] care if we get four strikes. You don't
[28:12] need to shove yourself into every
[28:13] project.
[28:14] >> Well, what the genre
[28:15] >> because the time
[28:16] >> James Gun has proven he can do comedy.
[28:19] He can do uh just kind of a general
[28:21] crowd-pleasing superhero film. He can do
[28:22] horror. He's done a couple different
[28:24] genres himself really well. But you're
[28:26] right, Paradise Lost L lost is going to
[28:28] be like a Game of Thrones type show or
[28:30] House of the Dragons type show in The
[28:31] Mascira, so that's still in development.
[28:33] >> I also think the horror he does is still
[28:35] different. There's 400 subg genres to
[28:37] horror and it looks like Clayfaces of
[28:38] like a man that can't identify himself.
[28:40] And I'm like, yeah, could you do that?
[28:42] Like he puts himself into everything he
[28:44] writes and I love that. That's what I
[28:45] loved about Superman so much. I don't
[28:47] have a relationship with my father, but
[28:49] I was like this I can see it and I and
[28:51] this is so sad and emotional, but I'm
[28:53] like do you have that same kind of
[28:55] emotion in you for like being invisible
[28:57] or just not being noticed or wanting to
[28:58] be noticed or not being who you are? Do
[29:01] you have imposter syndrome? Whatever. I
[29:03] bet he does. I bet I bet he does and he
[29:05] doesn't. I feel like he's gotten his ego
[29:06] stroked a lot with all of his projects
[29:08] recently, but I'm like
[29:09] >> I think the events of summer 2018
[29:12] they will never come back because he
[29:13] keeps making hits.
[29:14] >> Oh, sure, sure, sure. [laughter] I'm
[29:15] just saying like he's gone through those
[29:17] feelings of like too much celebrity
[29:18] >> attention.
[29:19] >> So he might do that but it's like I
[29:20] don't think he can cut his face off and
[29:22] be like I'm a different man. Um
[29:24] >> he did cut off his hair and say I have a
[29:25] different hair color.
[29:26] >> He's like I got white hair now. Um but
[29:29] with the mascara and like and also not
[29:31] to be this person it's like those
[29:32] projects I do I would want Supergirl
[29:34] written by a woman just so she could do
[29:36] she understands like this approach. But
[29:38] I also do think I don't know or
[29:40] Supergirl. I will say I have not seen
[29:42] Supergirl yet. But from what I heard
[29:43] about it or what I've seen about it, I
[29:45] was like, "Yeah, if this is a sad girl
[29:47] story, I kind of want to see it from a
[29:49] sad like I want a girl to write it. I
[29:50] want to know like cuz she'll be able to
[29:52] empathize in ways that he can't."
[29:54] >> Totally. Totally. And and I think you're
[29:56] you you are seeing some takes out there
[29:58] that like there's going to be some
[29:59] frantic calls to Matt Reeves into Greta
[30:01] Gerwig this weekend. Greta Gerwig is not
[30:04] going to be the person to come save the
[30:05] woman. You think they're going to do?
[30:06] Well, she would [ __ ] That's what
[30:07] they're saying. I think she would tear
[30:09] that [ __ ] up.
[30:10] >> Oh my god, dude. Put her on.
[30:12] >> But she's not the only female writer in
[30:13] Hollywood.
[30:14] >> 100%. But let me see how she does
[30:15] fantasy and the lion the witch in the
[30:17] wardrobe and then we'll talk. Or Narnia
[30:19] and then we'll talk.
[30:20] >> If Narnia is pristine, I would probably
[30:23] have a lot of faith in her doing Wonder
[30:25] Woman. Oh, and the mascara. Sorry. This
[30:28] is just Oh, that [ __ ] would eat it up.
[30:30] [laughter] She isn't the only woman
[30:31] writer though. She That is also true.
[30:33] Um, and hopefully the success of Barbie
[30:35] led will lead Warner Brothers and these
[30:38] other studios to say, "Hey, women can
[30:40] write good successful billion-dollar
[30:43] femaleled stories."
[30:44] >> It does suck that Anna maybe [ __ ] up
[30:46] this project cuz I think that is
[30:47] unfortunately how Hollywood does work a
[30:49] lot. And they don't want to group you
[30:50] all together, but they will be like,
[30:52] "Well, she didn't do a good job on this
[30:54] one. Should we get someone that's more
[30:56] experienced for the next one?" Also, who
[30:58] has experience writing a superhero movie
[31:01] to this caliber? That That's Supergirl.
[31:02] We know who she is. Everybody knows who
[31:04] she is.
[31:04] >> Deborah Snider.
[31:06] >> Oh, I do love Sn Oh my god. I love
[31:07] That's my girl. That's my girl. She
[31:10] caught a villain. I love her. We met
[31:12] her. No, wait. Maybe that was me and
[31:14] Brandon. Me and Brandon met her. She's
[31:15] always walking around Burbank.
[31:16] >> Uh Patty Jenkins.
[31:18] >> Patty. Oh, my girl. I mean, she's Patty
[31:20] Jenkins.
[31:20] >> Wonder Woman 84 is what?
[31:22] >> Okay. No, shut up. That that there was
[31:23] too many hands in the pot for that
[31:24] movie. That movie was horrible. But let
[31:25] me tell you, the first one, I loved it.
[31:28] But I also don't think she had a great
[31:29] time coming back. remember because she
[31:31] came back to James Gunn about something.
[31:33] >> I don't remember.
[31:33] >> Remember remember when she was tweeting
[31:35] about it or something? She was like she
[31:36] came to pitch something and they were
[31:37] like, "Yeah, we just don't really see
[31:38] the vision." And I was like, "Patty,
[31:41] my girl, let's put Shondaanda Rimes in
[31:43] there." [laughter]
[31:44] >> Shondaanda will fix it.
[31:45] >> Shondaa will WRITE THE MOST DRAMATIC
[31:47] [ __ ] PIECE. [laughter] No one will
[31:50] understand it. It will just be a
[31:51] heart-wrenching love tale.
[31:54] >> Yeah.
[31:54] >> Nasa would be great. I want Nicasa to
[31:56] direct something for them. I would love
[31:57] her to do a hot girl.
[31:59] >> Yeah. Um, that would be great. Yeah,
[32:00] there is a lot of there is a lot of
[32:02] women, but I also I I don't know. I I'm
[32:04] maybe I'm just too nice today. I feel
[32:05] bad for Anna.
[32:07] >> I feel really bad. It sucks. It would
[32:09] suck. I would be like, "Don't show me
[32:11] the news."
[32:11] >> I just want to know. I kind of want to
[32:13] know what happened with this script.
[32:14] Like,
[32:15] >> you could probably look it up and find
[32:16] the script somewhere, right? Actually,
[32:17] maybe not.
[32:18] >> I don't know. I don't know. Well, I
[32:20] mean, the story will be told at some
[32:21] point, but it's just like whatever.
[32:24] Again, whatever you feel about Tom King,
[32:26] that woman of tomorrow graphic novel is
[32:28] like a really great blueprint. Like, you
[32:30] don't need to
[32:32] >> change it. I think this keeps happening
[32:34] where they get these screenwriters who
[32:36] don't really have a relationship with
[32:37] the source material, but the studio head
[32:39] has a relationship with the source
[32:40] material. And the writer's like, I just
[32:42] want work. Sure, I'll do whatever you
[32:44] say. And then they don't really give a
[32:45] [ __ ] about this graphic novel. And they
[32:47] just kind of read it and they're like,
[32:49] I'm going to do my own thing. It's like,
[32:50] no, no, no, no, no. your job is to just
[32:52] write a screenplay version of this.
[32:54] >> But there's no way you can make them, I
[32:55] guess, do that, I guess, right? You
[32:58] can't be like, I told you to read that
[33:00] source material and stick to it.
[33:01] >> I mean, there's certain things that Anna
[33:03] does with this script of like shortening
[33:05] the timeline of it. That's fine. Giving
[33:06] the movie a ticking clock of 3 days
[33:08] versus several months, totally fine.
[33:10] Even changing the exact resolution of
[33:12] how they deal with Creme at the end of
[33:14] the story due to, you know, if you're
[33:16] trying to have these characters come
[33:17] back in future titles, you can't really
[33:18] do that. But just the they [ __ ] up the
[33:22] character of Crim in this movie. It is
[33:25] awful. Like like he's unwatchable in the
[33:28] movie and it's it's part of the Matias's
[33:31] performance. The way the character is
[33:33] written is unwatchable. Um I even think
[33:36] like the character of Ruthie Marie Null
[33:39] is like underwritten in this final
[33:42] script and she has such great narration,
[33:45] this true grit narration that they just
[33:47] decided no, we don't need narration.
[33:48] It's like if you want to make this movie
[33:50] different, why not just have a young
[33:51] girl like Scout Finch in Tequila
[33:53] Mockingbird narrate over it? You could
[33:55] do that and it would feel different and
[33:57] it would be so cool and it would be true
[33:58] to the graphic novel
[33:59] >> and true to uh Haley Steinfeld in the
[34:02] True Grit movie. It would be great and
[34:05] they didn't do it and I just don't
[34:06] understand why. I I I don't know if I
[34:09] ever get five minutes with James Gun or
[34:11] Anna Agraa in any junket in the future.
[34:13] I kind of just want to spend the five
[34:14] minutes just be like, can I ask you some
[34:16] hard questions about why you wrote this
[34:18] this way?
[34:19] >> And I'll probably never get that chance,
[34:21] but like someone can one of these
[34:23] influencers or Tik Tockers who does get
[34:25] an interview with them, please, for the
[34:26] love of God, ask them some questions
[34:28] about why some unflattering questions
[34:30] about why they chose to write the
[34:31] script.
[34:32] >> They'll lose the opportunity.
[34:33] >> No, they'll never get a chance. Instead,
[34:34] they're going to be like, "Let's play
[34:36] this game of like
[34:37] >> who would you kiss?" Superman,
[34:38] [clears throat]
[34:39] your cousin. [laughter]
[34:41] >> Um, yeah,
[34:42] >> I'm being kind of hard on it, but it's
[34:43] just like you had a win. You had an easy
[34:46] win, and for whatever reason, they chose
[34:48] to like make it hard for themselves.
[34:50] >> Do you think it felt like one of those
[34:51] scripts that was like, I don't want to
[34:52] take from the source material cuz this
[34:54] is still like my project. I want to
[34:55] write my own kind of
[34:57] >> which is which is ego. If you're a work
[34:58] for hire for a major franchise, just get
[35:01] the project made and make it successful
[35:03] with the nerds who are going to watch
[35:04] it.
[35:04] >> What works what I guess what hits
[35:05] harder, hearing people be like, "This is
[35:07] a horrible script." Or hearing you just
[35:09] copied the comic.
[35:12] >> You just copied the comic has worked for
[35:14] Marvel Studios for 15 years.
[35:15] >> But this is not Marvel Studios. This is
[35:17] Anna. [laughter]
[35:18] >> So I I I guess it's not I know it can
[35:20] still be selfish 100%. I'm not
[35:21] disagreeing with you at all. Uh, it's
[35:23] just I guess going in there as a writer.
[35:25] Do you And this is like this is it's so
[35:28] funny because this is how I feel about
[35:28] Survivor people and people on Rupaul's
[35:30] Drag Race. I'm like you made it on the
[35:32] show. That was half the battle. If you
[35:33] leave first, you did you did it. Why are
[35:35] you crying that you're going home like
[35:37] as number five? And it's LIKE BECAUSE I
[35:39] WORKED HARD TO GET HERE. SO I'M LIKE A
[35:40] writer like her going in there and then
[35:43] being like I'm not going to take
[35:45] everything from that source. I want this
[35:46] movie to be my Supergirl movie. And I I
[35:49] am like yeah that is kind of selfish.
[35:50] I'm like I get I guess what I'm saying
[35:52] is I understand where she would be
[35:54] coming from in that regard, but this is
[35:55] also a movie that has to be a hit. Yeah.
[35:57] >> And you have to take those L's for those
[35:58] hits. And I don't think you would lose
[36:00] work making a hit that is just copying a
[36:02] comic. You can go back to doing whatever
[36:04] you want to do on the side that is just
[36:06] you. You could write your own piece and
[36:07] then fund it or do whatever the hell you
[36:09] want. But I do think for like something
[36:10] this big, maybe we just need that
[36:12] consensus that like when it's this big,
[36:14] you have to go from the comics. I don't
[36:15] give a [ __ ] Like you have to go back to
[36:17] what was good. You have to identify what
[36:19] the fans really really care about from
[36:21] the source material in this take on the
[36:22] character. And we're not just saying
[36:24] copy the comic. We're talking about
[36:25] adaptation. And you know, I should
[36:26] clarify what I just said. Marvel Studios
[36:28] actually has rarely copied a to a
[36:31] comics. They often make their the Russo
[36:33] brothers love making their own kind of
[36:34] story. But this is like the challenge
[36:36] with this is why they give Oscars for
[36:38] adapting a source material into a
[36:39] screenplay. The best I think the best
[36:42] example of this was uh Fran and Philippo
[36:44] scripts for the Lord of the Rings
[36:46] trilogy. um Peter Jackson with those two
[36:49] women are really true Tolken scholars
[36:51] who have read all the appendices.
[36:52] They've read the smearillion. So when
[36:54] they're making choices to adapt the
[36:57] volumes of Fellowship, Two Towers, and
[37:00] King into those three movies, they are
[37:03] when they're filling in gaps, they're
[37:04] filling in gaps from other things Tolken
[37:06] wrote over here or other themes that
[37:08] Tolken was developing in other places
[37:10] that Christopher Tolken was developing.
[37:12] So, like they clearly have a lifelong
[37:14] passion for the source material and
[37:16] that's what makes a really well- adapted
[37:18] screenplays win their Oscars. Yeah. And
[37:20] and I think you can't just have like
[37:22] it'd be one thing if an Aguero was like,
[37:23] you know, I didn't have an attachment to
[37:25] um
[37:26] >> to the Tom King script, but I did have
[37:28] the attachment to these other eras of
[37:30] Supergirl or what Helen Slater did or
[37:32] the CW.
[37:33] >> But I think it was like already too
[37:34] late, right? Cuz James and them were
[37:35] like we're taking from this.
[37:37] >> They I don't know what I don't I really
[37:39] don't know what her initial pitch was.
[37:41] Um, but like you even see that with
[37:43] James Gun. Like James Gun has been very
[37:45] clear with Superman. He's like, I I like
[37:47] Smallville. You're going to see
[37:49] Smallville DNA in my DCU. We have no
[37:51] problem with that because it's like,
[37:52] okay, well, you did have your gateway
[37:54] into Superman either through the Silver
[37:56] Age comics, either through Grant
[37:58] Morrison runs or whoever's runs, the
[38:01] All-Star Superman run obviously was big
[38:03] for him. Uh, even if it was Superman
[38:05] animated series, like I loved how uh
[38:07] Matt Reeves had said with the Batman,
[38:09] he's like, "I liked Batman the animated
[38:11] series in the '90s." It's like, "Fuck
[38:12] yeah, dude. I want to see your vision
[38:14] for this." You know?
[38:15] >> So, you're saying like it's maybe a part
[38:16] of Anna being like, "I don't actually
[38:18] like this Tom King run."
[38:20] >> You can't just have a good pitch is what
[38:21] I'm saying. You you have to have you you
[38:24] if you're going to be adapting this
[38:26] source material in which there are going
[38:28] to be scholars of it watching these
[38:30] films, judging it, you yourself have to
[38:32] be a scholar. And the reason I say that
[38:33] is we know of plenty of screenwriters,
[38:35] working screenwriters, who are scholars
[38:37] of this source material and are not
[38:39] getting this work. And I don't know why
[38:40] they're getting passed on for just some
[38:43] person who was in the original cast of
[38:45] Hamilton.
[38:46] >> I was about to be meaner for a second
[38:48] there, [laughter] but like
[38:49] >> I think that's a very
[38:50] >> I think James Gun I think James Gun just
[38:52] gets wooed by people who are actors
[38:53] turned screenwriters because that's who
[38:55] what he was.
[38:57] >> I see it. I see it. Yeah. I also feel
[39:00] like I don't know. It might be hard. It
[39:02] might be hard getting those writers. You
[39:04] get like, "Okay, here's a bucket of a
[39:06] bunch of people we can hire from." And
[39:07] then you're like, "Oh, I like this a
[39:09] lot. Let's give it to her." Like, I feel
[39:11] like that's just usually how it goes.
[39:12] There's a bunch of great screenwriters
[39:14] 100%. But it's also like who you know,
[39:17] >> right? It is completely like whoever's
[39:20] agents got to send the like here's my
[39:22] person. Like I'm sure watch it have been
[39:24] like any there's probably someone that
[39:26] was like James Gun's longtime friend
[39:28] that's now working at CIA that's like
[39:30] hey actually I represent this person
[39:31] that's really good. You should have a
[39:32] meeting with them and then that person
[39:33] gets to write the next movie.
[39:34] >> And and I'm being really really critical
[39:37] and what I just said was probably the
[39:39] harshest thing I've ever said about
[39:40] James Gunn. Um but what we should
[39:43] acknowledge is that every movie when it
[39:45] does to come together and open is
[39:46] miraculous in a way. It it's it's
[39:48] miraculous that the right kind of team
[39:50] can come together to even make any
[39:52] adaptation. And the fact that we have a
[39:53] Supergirl movie coming out that like
[39:55] it's a well-cast Supergirl who's part of
[39:56] a cinematic universe that we're still
[39:58] excited about, that's miraculous in a
[40:00] way. And we should be we should be
[40:01] grateful that we can even have a movie
[40:03] like this where we can talk about and be
[40:04] this critical of. Um but what going
[40:07] forward I think what what's required for
[40:10] these movies to work is like adaptation
[40:13] is not a simple thing. And I'm begging
[40:15] Marvel Studios, DC Studios, anybody
[40:18] who's going to be adapting IP, like
[40:22] you,
[40:23] >> it's hard.
[40:23] >> You can find people out there who are
[40:25] working already on projects who have
[40:29] like a a bone deep affection for the IP,
[40:33] for the lore. Uh, and those people are
[40:37] chomping at the bit to get an
[40:39] opportunity to write a screenplay. And I
[40:42] think that's very very important for all
[40:44] future adaptations.
[40:45] >> Yeah. I just think it's hard.
[40:48] >> I'm not even playing devil's advocate.
[40:49] It's just I don't I would not under like
[40:51] there could be the greatest screenplay
[40:53] right now from someone at UCLA and I do
[40:55] not know how they would get that to
[40:56] Kevin Figy's door.
[40:56] >> Yeah.
[40:57] >> And I don't even know how Kevin Feige
[40:58] would trust to read this kid's
[40:59] screenplay. Like that's the hard part
[41:01] and this is what I hate about the
[41:03] mechanics of Hollywood in general and
[41:04] this is why who you know is really
[41:06] important. It's just like that's what
[41:08] gets you through the door. Like that's
[41:10] what gets people to read your script is
[41:11] if you have a good team of people that
[41:12] can promote you. Uh even getting back in
[41:15] the day it was like, "Oh, you won this
[41:17] weird writing competition. You can do
[41:19] this thing." They don't do that [ __ ]
[41:20] anymore. So it's just like who is your
[41:23] manager? Who represents you. Can they
[41:25] like rep you really well? And then on
[41:26] top of that, like show me, prove to me
[41:29] that you actually are good at this. And
[41:30] then after you pass all those tests, let
[41:32] me look into your background. If you
[41:33] have some weird racist tweet, I'm not
[41:35] hiring you. [laughter] If you have some
[41:37] weird [ __ ] like I can't hire you. if
[41:38] you have a problem with something or you
[41:40] said something or you did something, I
[41:41] also cannot hire you. Um, it's it's it's
[41:44] so I'm like I'm not playing I'm not
[41:46] playing devil's advocate because they
[41:47] should they should that I want them to
[41:48] bring new people in. That's how you get
[41:50] better ideas. That's how we got back
[41:51] rooms. But I'm just like I don't even
[41:54] know where to start. I wouldn't even
[41:55] know where to start. And if and I've
[41:56] been an assistant a million times. I'm
[41:58] like, [ __ ] I'm not reading all 500,
[41:59] >> right?
[42:00] >> 500 screenplays. I'm like, what? And
[42:01] then also after the fifth hundred, I'd
[42:03] be like, I don't know what's good
[42:04] anymore. [laughter]
[42:05] >> And we're commenting on the outside, you
[42:07] know? we have like a a position of
[42:09] privilege here where we can just like
[42:11] assume it's way easier than it is. And I
[42:13] I do think like Supergirl is not
[42:15] necessarily like the movie for which we
[42:18] should be being this critical of these
[42:20] franchises. The Mandalorian and Grou
[42:22] deserved this.
[42:22] >> People still like The Mandalorian Grou
[42:24] though. That's the problem is like and
[42:26] also as it's Mandalorian Grou is a
[42:28] [ __ ] spin-off to me. I'm like
[42:30] Supergirl is supposed to be one of the
[42:32] core for me. So, I'm like I'm not trying
[42:34] to put it on a bigger pedestal, but I'm
[42:35] like I expected more from Supergirl than
[42:37] I ever would from Mandalorian Grou, but
[42:39] I would expect more from a Star Wars
[42:40] Star Wars movie like the Rise of the
[42:43] Skywalker before I expect it from
[42:45] Supergirl. Yeah, if that makes sense.
[42:46] >> I I I'll say that I'm far more concerned
[42:48] about the the health and the future of
[42:50] the state of Star Wars after the
[42:52] Mandalorian and Grou than I am about the
[42:54] state of DC after Supergirl.
[42:56] >> They're still going. They don't care.
[42:57] Star Wars don't care. They they got all
[42:59] the money.
[42:59] >> Well, sure. They're always going to be
[43:00] commercially successful, but I think
[43:02] there is far more writing on Stariller
[43:04] in 2027 than there is on like Clayface
[43:07] Mana tomorrow.
[43:09] >> I think so. I think Well, yeah. Yes.
[43:10] Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
[43:11] >> I think if uh compared to the the DC
[43:13] ones, 100%. But I don't think it's like
[43:16] a lot is weighing on that movie.
[43:19] >> You think for theatrical Star Wars, it's
[43:20] all weighing on. Wouldn't they get rid
[43:21] of the TV before they get rid of the
[43:23] movies?
[43:23] >> No. If Stariller fails, you're going to
[43:26] see heads roll at Lucas. Really? Yeah.
[43:28] Yeah. Yeah. They need that movie to be
[43:30] super successful. Or we're going to face
[43:32] a future where like we might not have we
[43:35] might be like Star Trek where we don't
[43:36] have Star Wars for the next like few
[43:38] decades.
[43:39] >> I mean that's true. They already did
[43:40] that kind of or well it hasn't been that
[43:42] long since the last one but it's been
[43:44] long enough. It's been too long.
[43:46] >> It's just there or there will be very
[43:47] very small Star Wars movies that come
[43:49] out every now and then that are very
[43:51] lowbudget and then maybe but it's not
[43:52] going to be the big budget franchise
[43:54] ones that it's been for like the past
[43:56] like 20 years. They'll literally keep
[43:57] doing the series.
[43:58] >> Uh maybe, maybe. Yeah, they'll still do
[44:01] animated series
[44:02] >> because the animated ones are still
[44:03] going.
[44:04] >> Yeah. And they have like a welloiled
[44:05] machine. They can keep pumping those
[44:06] out. But live action series, I mean,
[44:08] they cost a lot of money to make those
[44:10] Ahsokas. And
[44:10] >> I just thought that was like where they
[44:12] wanted their money to go more than I
[44:13] guess the TV series still help the
[44:15] parks.
[44:15] >> There's not going to be any money coming
[44:16] in. I think the all that all that like
[44:19] they'll still pump money into parks.
[44:21] Like I think Star Wars will always be a
[44:22] forever brand that will do well in the
[44:24] parks, experiences, merchandise. Yeah.
[44:26] And they'll have animated shows that
[44:28] come out that keep that alive, but it's
[44:30] going to be it's going to take a while.
[44:32] You're going to have to take another
[44:33] generational talent the way J.J. Abrams
[44:35] pitched himself to be in 2014. Oh, yeah.
[44:38] >> Um, so, but yeah. So, but DC Studios, as
[44:41] Peter Saffron and James Gunn have said,
[44:42] they have a couple more movies and shows
[44:44] that are coming out that I think all of
[44:46] them would have to fail and lose a [ __ ]
[44:48] ton of money for them to go back to the
[44:50] wall. Because the thing is, no matter
[44:52] what, Matt Reeves the Batman is going to
[44:54] cook.
[44:54] >> It's going to cook. And Batman will
[44:56] always be a [sighs] hot hot brand more
[44:58] than Star Wars is currently. So I think
[45:00] no matter what, even if you consider the
[45:02] DC brand to still be fledgling and shaky
[45:06] after Supergirl, like damn, this is
[45:08] still the universe that has Batman in
[45:10] it.
[45:10] >> Yeah.
[45:11] >> And uh and I and I'm not too worried
[45:13] about e anyone's jobs right now. I I
[45:16] think, you know, yes, you can be
[45:18] concerned about Paramount's acquisition
[45:19] of Warner Brothers and what the
[45:20] Ellison's want to do with it, but the
[45:21] reason why they were most excited to
[45:23] acquire Warner Brothers is they're like,
[45:24] we want to have our names on a Batman
[45:26] movie,
[45:26] >> I think. And that's the that's your
[45:28] that's your gold ticket. I don't think
[45:29] Marvel technically has that anymore
[45:30] since Iron Man is gone. So, it's like,
[45:32] oh, our money maker isn't Batman. He is
[45:34] making money in the games. He's making
[45:36] money in the other things that have
[45:38] nothing to do with James Gun's DCU. And
[45:40] then they they're making their own DC's.
[45:41] Oh my god.
[45:42] >> And Marvel does have Spider-Man. They
[45:44] share They're sharing it with Sony.
[45:46] >> But but yeah. Yes, you're right. You're
[45:47] right. Um
[45:48] >> core core money is going straight to DC
[45:50] for B right. All of Matt Reeves' money
[45:52] goes straight to DC or War Brothers.
[45:54] >> Yeah.
[45:54] >> And then so what? We don't know.
[45:56] >> Not all of his money, but the money he
[45:57] makes on this movie. And then even if
[46:00] the money for Lego Batman goes somewhere
[46:02] else, a little bit still goes to like,
[46:04] oh yeah, we're adapting.
[46:05] >> Yeah. That that was full Warner Brothers
[46:07] profit there.
[46:07] >> They're getting And then same with the
[46:09] Penguin.
[46:10] >> They still spin spin-off, but like
[46:11] >> HBO series. Yeah. But they still the
[46:14] Batman universe makes money is what I'm
[46:16] saying. Ah damn.
[46:17] >> And so that's why I think you're you
[46:18] might see greater calls for uh James
[46:21] Gunn to just make the Matt Reeves half
[46:23] of the universe. The Matt Reeves Patson
[46:25] Gotham the Gotham of the DCU. But we
[46:28] should be clear that there is still a
[46:29] plan for a Brave and the Bold movie to
[46:31] come out. They want to have their own
[46:32] Gotham. That's going to be the Gotham
[46:34] that we see in in uh Clayface. Now
[46:37] Clayface might be set a few years
[46:39] earlier than everything else. So,
[46:41] there's a world where it just is a
[46:43] separate Gotham, but I don't know. We've
[46:45] only seen a teaser for Clayface. That
[46:47] could be the Gotham of the Matt Reeves
[46:48] universe. But, I feel like that might be
[46:50] pressure that Ellison puts on him by
[46:52] just saying like
[46:53] >> because of more money.
[46:54] >> Either make all of these movies graphic
[46:56] novels and there's no connected
[46:57] cinematic universe or make it the same
[46:59] cinematic universe cuz we're just going
[47:01] to fund more of these patents in
[47:02] Batman's.
[47:03] >> I don't mind you splitting the universe,
[47:04] but I will say if they're both dark and
[47:06] dirty, it's going to be hard to
[47:07] differentiate. Like especially if uh
[47:10] Clayface is going to be bloody and gory,
[47:12] I'm going to be like, "Oh, so Penguin is
[47:14] the same place." Right. Right. These are
[47:16] the same worlds, both dirty and gritty.
[47:18] >> It it I think it's going to be a while
[47:20] before we hear any update about like a
[47:22] separate Batman movie that exists in the
[47:26] continuity of Superman. I think what you
[47:28] might see is if like Clayface [snorts]
[47:30] does okay, like if Clayface is just like
[47:32] kind of a mid-level performer. Um, and
[47:35] if Man of Tomorrow does well, and then
[47:37] if Matt Reeves the Batman is like the
[47:40] highest grossing of all of these movies,
[47:42] what you're going to see is pressure
[47:43] from the Ellison's to just say like, we
[47:46] we'll we'll give you money for a
[47:48] follow-up to that that Matt Reeves
[47:50] directs if we can get Patson back. We're
[47:52] not going to give you we're not going to
[47:53] give you $200 million for another Batman
[47:56] movie. [snorts] That's not that.
[47:57] >> That's not that. Well, yeah, the Batman
[48:00] will make more money than our new Batman
[48:02] would. Also again, but also I'm it's it
[48:05] cost them a pretty penny to make The
[48:07] Batman and Robert Patterson only is
[48:09] gonna ask for more and more money. And
[48:10] then when you put in Scarlett Johansson
[48:12] and a bunch of other people in it,
[48:13] Scarlett Johansson's rate is I want to
[48:15] know what she's making for that movie.
[48:17] >> Uh probably 15
[48:18] >> cuz she makes she made a [ __ ] ton for
[48:20] Jurassic World, but she could have asked
[48:21] for that for Jurassic World. But this
[48:22] one, I could see Matt Reeves being like,
[48:24] "Come on, it's still a good movie. It's
[48:26] out there what these A-listers rates are
[48:28] for like Leo DiCaprio will only do a
[48:30] movie for 20 million.
[48:32] >> Minimum 20 million.
[48:33] >> I just need a
[48:34] >> Tom Cruz is around that too. Um Downey
[48:36] is around that as well. But
[48:38] >> Tom Cruz could ask for more.
[48:39] >> Oh, he does. [laughter] He genuinely
[48:40] gets
[48:40] >> hired for all of it because he's acting
[48:42] as the stunt too.
[48:43] >> I'm saying they're minimums.
[48:44] >> Oh, they're minimums.
[48:45] >> And they get points on the back end
[48:46] generally as well. U Scarlett Johansson
[48:49] I think is the highest paid actress. Um
[48:52] she's higher than Charlies Theron. Um,
[48:54] Zenaia's up there, but I think I think
[48:56] ScarJo gets more than Zinda does.
[48:57] >> I agree.
[48:58] >> Um, so it's probably around 15 million,
[49:00] maybe 20 million for her, but I don't
[49:02] think it's probably not a guaranteed
[49:04] minimum. I bet there's some negotiation
[49:05] because
[49:05] >> there has to be.
[49:06] >> She's she's like hustling. She's not
[49:08] like where it's DiCaprio where he'll
[49:10] only do a movie when he really believes
[49:12] in it. Scarlett Johansson did Jurassic
[49:14] World Rebirth. She's doing this Batman
[49:16] movie and she's doing The Exorcist.
[49:18] >> Oh yeah, she's doing The Exorcist. So,
[49:19] like I think she's probably getting like
[49:21] a minimum of like 12 or 15 would be my
[49:24] guess for all of her movies.
[49:25] >> Okay.
[49:25] >> And it's she's worth it. She brings that
[49:27] much and more for like uh just her being
[49:30] on the
[49:30] >> Also, she's good at doing stunts, too.
[49:32] So, it's like you get the best of both
[49:33] worlds. Everyone recognized her. She's a
[49:34] good face. She's a good person. Not
[49:38] >> I almost said that and then I was like,
[49:39] wait, no, she's not.
[49:40] >> We don't know her. She's married to
[49:43] Colin.
[49:43] >> I know enough of her. I know she just
[49:46] took up for Woody Allen again. Oh,
[49:48] [laughter]
[49:48] well,
[49:50] >> she she she her her priorities are in a
[49:53] different baskets. And this is she would
[49:55] love that we go back to a time where we
[49:57] didn't care about what celebrities
[49:58] [laughter] said, unless they were on
[50:00] camera. She would be like, "Can you guys
[50:02] please just go back to the time where
[50:03] you didn't know [laughter] me?"
[50:05] >> All right. So, that's kind of the
[50:06] general state of the DC Studios universe
[50:09] right now. I think like it's the
[50:11] underperformance of Supergirl is not
[50:14] enough of an indication of the future
[50:16] for James Gunn and Peter Saffron's jobs.
[50:18] Uh but we'll look at Lanterns, we'll
[50:20] look at Clayface, and we'll look at
[50:22] tracking for Man of Tomorrow, and those
[50:24] will be more of an indicator. Uh but I
[50:27] honestly think like James Gunn is still
[50:28] like a valuable asset to the Ellison.
[50:31] >> Um and Craig Gillespie is still a you
[50:34] know, a good director who also made it
[50:36] and Carella and these other movies. It's
[50:38] just he also made this one. He also made
[50:40] Hey, not everyone's gonna win every
[50:41] movie. You know what I'm saying? Those
[50:42] movies might be winners. This one's
[50:44] gonna be bad. [laughter]
[50:46] >> Um, coming up this week on the New
[50:47] Rockstars channel, you will see our
[50:49] breakdown of episode two of season 3 of
[50:52] House of the Dragons coming to the
[50:53] channel tomorrow. Um, X-Men 97 premieres
[50:57] Wednesday, uh, July 1st. First three
[51:01] episodes of X-Men 97, you'll be able to
[51:03] see the new Rockstars Easter egg
[51:04] breakdown hosted and written by Gina
[51:06] Epilo. She is our resident X-Men
[51:09] animated series expert. So, you're
[51:10] really going to love her breakdown when
[51:12] that comes out to the New Rockstars
[51:13] channel. Um, and then we have our next
[51:16] episode of The Road to Doomsday where
[51:18] Jessica and I talk about Logan, the 2017
[51:20] Logan film. Uh, that's coming this
[51:23] Saturday, July 4th, on the 4th of July.
[51:26] All right, so let's end this episode
[51:28] with what we're watching. What else have
[51:30] you been consuming and watching this
[51:31] week?
[51:32] >> Um, I'm watching, which is actually
[51:34] really funny. I'm watching the Batman's
[51:35] all the way through again. not not
[51:37] watching what's his names Adam West. Um
[51:40] I have watched those. I don't need to
[51:41] watch them again, but I'm starting from
[51:44] the or uh like the 89 Michael Kitten.
[51:48] Yeah.
[51:48] >> Yeah. And we're going up.
[51:50] >> And I hate to say it.
[51:53] >> I still love the Val Kilmer one. That
[51:54] one is still my It's still my number one
[51:56] unfortunately. It is still
[51:57] >> That's your number one.
[51:58] >> It's my number one cuz it's so funny. I
[51:59] think it's Jim Carrey as the Riddler is
[52:01] so much fun for me that I really I
[52:04] really like Arnold Sorenhager is also
[52:06] very funny.
[52:07] >> That's in the fourth one.
[52:08] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, no. I Well, I've
[52:10] watched them all, but I'm just watching
[52:11] from the beginning. I'm just naming like
[52:13] the villains are so much fun in that
[52:15] movie. Tommy Lee Jones. [laughter]
[52:17] >> He's like uh Sam
[52:19] >> and you can tell he's kind of really
[52:20] irritated with Jim Car.
[52:21] >> Oh, he [laughter] hates working with
[52:22] him.
[52:23] >> He He just He's so annoyed. The only
[52:25] part I don't like is just like why even
[52:27] put like Drew Barrymore and what's her
[52:29] name as Uma Thurman's Po Ivy in it for
[52:31] like a split second. But otherwise it is
[52:33] very fun.
[52:34] >> Drew Barrymore being in the third one is
[52:36] such an odd
[52:37] >> weird I don't understand. But I I really
[52:39] like I love Val Kilmer a lot. I love Val
[52:42] Kilmer a lot. Oh
[52:43] >> yeah. Miss him.
[52:44] >> I miss I do miss him. I loved Val Kilmer
[52:46] a lot. He was like the hottest man to be
[52:48] when Batman came out. I was like oo now
[52:51] that is a plastic man.
[52:52] >> Um what are you watching? Uh, last
[52:54] Sunday was Father's Day.
[52:57] >> Oh my god. Oh, so sorry. Added part that
[53:00] I'm watching Love Island.
[53:02] >> Oh, I hear it's just straight up porn
[53:04] now.
[53:05] >> Yeah, it is. And it makes me very
[53:06] uncomfortable. And I don't understand
[53:08] why we're okay with it. Maybe I'm
[53:09] getting really old. Is that me being I
[53:11] don't know. I Why are you
[53:12] >> I think we're all sex positive here, but
[53:14] like the show had a different mission.
[53:16] I'll tell you right now, I would like if
[53:18] I was on that show, which I would never
[53:19] be, but if I was, I'm not trying to open
[53:21] tongue every single person within 30
[53:23] seconds. And also, there's like
[53:25] challenges are like
[53:27] >> strip for this person, all five of these
[53:29] men. And I'm like, I don't want to do
[53:31] that. I don't want to do that. I don't
[53:33] mind doing this. Is the first season or
[53:34] not the first season, there's been a lot
[53:35] of season, but this is a season where
[53:37] there's a girl on there that's like very
[53:38] like, oh, um, I'm taking things slow.
[53:41] And she's actually being like
[53:43] villainized for it. Like some of the men
[53:45] are like, "This is crazy. Why is she
[53:47] waiting?" And I'm like, "Probably cuz
[53:48] there's cameras on you guys 24 [ __ ]
[53:49] seven." That same episode, there's a
[53:51] girl going down on a man in their room.
[53:53] And I'm like, "Why are we watching this?
[53:55] This is crazy." Do also, first off, do
[53:56] you guys not know that you're being
[53:57] recorded? Secondly, why am I watching
[53:59] this? Cuz now I'm just watching like a
[54:01] 24year-old giving head and I don't want
[54:04] to watch that. I don't want to watch
[54:06] that. I don't want to watch that. That's
[54:07] all it is. It is porn. It is 100% porn
[54:09] and I have my grievances with it because
[54:11] I don't I feel so uncomfortable. I'm
[54:13] like, I don't think I got consent to
[54:15] watch this.
[54:15] >> Yeah, they didn't warn me that
[54:17] >> they didn't they didn't tell Did they
[54:18] tell them? But I also I'm like I guess
[54:19] it's on it like ninth season. You know
[54:21] what the show's about?
[54:23] >> But I'm also but it's but it's so heavy
[54:25] to me that I'm like
[54:27] >> can I go to Fiji and tell the girl that
[54:28] I just saw her give this guy a head.
[54:29] Yeah. And also their parents are also
[54:31] watching the show. Everyone's families
[54:33] are back home being like, "I hope Carla
[54:34] finds love." And then Carla goes down on
[54:36] Gabriel and you're like,
[54:38] >> "That's not what I meant."
[54:39] >> YEAH, THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT. It's so
[54:41] funny because parents will be in like
[54:42] comments on Facebook being like, "I hope
[54:43] my son chooses a naya. What are you
[54:46] talking about? Get out of here. This is
[54:47] so weird of you, dude. Weird. Weird."
[54:51] And they also don't know how to find out
[54:52] that another girl got caught saying the
[54:54] n word and got kicked off the show in
[54:55] the middle of the night.
[54:56] >> Well,
[54:57] >> girls, why is it so fun to say the n
[54:59] word? I know why it's fun. I can say it,
[55:01] but [laughter]
[55:02] I'm allowed to say it because it's for
[55:04] me. It's my word. But why the [ __ ] are
[55:06] y'all saying it? This girl got caught
[55:08] literally being like, "Oh, this n-word
[55:10] keeps trying to talk to me." In 2022,
[55:13] 2022. And then crazy in the episode
[55:16] she's in,
[55:17] >> she doesn't she conveniently doesn't
[55:19] kiss any of the brown people.
[55:20] >> That's
[55:20] >> She doesn't kiss any of the brown
[55:22] people. She goes, "There's a pattern." I
[55:24] said, and I'm reading it and I'm reading
[55:26] it. [ __ ] you thought you were the
[55:27] Riddler, but I got it. [laughter] I got
[55:29] like walks like a duck, quacks like a
[55:31] duck. She got kicked off the show. I'm
[55:32] like, there's too many times people are
[55:33] getting kicked off THE SHOW. HOW THE
[55:34] [ __ ] is I'm not even trying to compare
[55:36] it to Survivor, but if they can find
[55:38] people on Survivor that aren't [ __ ]
[55:39] horrible people like that, what the [ __ ]
[55:42] are we doing? Like, what you guys have?
[55:43] It's Peacock. You have all the money in
[55:45] the world to be actually vetting a lot
[55:47] of these people and then somehow these
[55:49] people get on the show and then all of a
[55:50] sudden we find their Snapchats of them
[55:52] saying the n-word to every rap music
[55:53] video all of a sudden.
[55:55] >> Well, I think it's a show like Love
[55:56] Island. You really do have to It's
[55:59] harder to find people who are going to
[56:01] kind of put themselves on display like
[56:03] that. Whereas Survivor, you have a lot
[56:04] of people like, I want to make a million
[56:05] dollars. I'm just someone who grew up
[56:06] watching Survivor. And I True, you have
[56:08] a lot more wholesome game bots that come
[56:10] through, especially in the new era of
[56:11] Survivor, but Survivor went through
[56:13] this. There's quite a few people
[56:14] histories.
[56:15] >> Oh, there's problematic people that
[56:16] reveal themselves when they're on
[56:18] Survivor, and I go, "Oops."
[56:19] >> I go, "That's gross." I love My favorite
[56:21] part of Survivor is when Jeff's like,
[56:23] "You make me sick." [laughter]
[56:24] >> Yeah. When Jeff has to be Uncle Jeff and
[56:27] kind of sit everyone down and be like,
[56:28] "Let's talk about how to be people in
[56:30] civiliz."
[56:32] Okay. Sorry. That's Love Island. Insane.
[56:34] I'm not okay with what's happening.
[56:36] Yeah. Now you go. Sorry.
[56:37] >> Um it was Father's Day last Sunday.
[56:40] [laughter]
[56:40] So I was like trying to My wife was
[56:43] like, "You can watch any kind of dad
[56:45] coded thing you want." And I was like,
[56:47] "But what's something that would be
[56:48] really hard to get you to watch on any
[56:50] other Sunday?"
[56:50] >> So we're making a brisket.
[56:51] >> No. Well, that No, I I was thinking
[56:53] movies. So I was like, I put on Master
[56:55] and Command. Mastering Commander Far
[56:56] Side of the World. Um it's a Russell
[56:59] Crowe, Peter Weir movie from the early
[57:01] 2000. It was like the re team up of
[57:03] Russell Crowe and uh Paul Bettany in
[57:07] 2003.
[57:07] >> I didn't watch a lot of I didn't watch
[57:09] any Paul B.
[57:10] >> It's a good Patrick O'Brien ship movie.
[57:12] It's like it's a Napoleonic or
[57:14] >> No, you just said a dad movie. Why would
[57:15] I watch it?
[57:16] >> You don't need to watch it. Well, you do
[57:17] need to watch it. It's [laughter]
[57:18] excellent. It's same director of the
[57:19] Truman show.
[57:20] >> Okay. I like it.
[57:21] >> It's very very good. Uh it was like
[57:23] nominated for a whole bunch of awards
[57:24] and I was like, you know what? How have
[57:25] I avoided seeing this all this time? And
[57:27] it's always been on my list. I was like
[57:29] now this sun Sunday. Father's Day 2026.
[57:32] We're watching it and Kelly's like, "I
[57:34] love that." And I was like, "No." I kind
[57:36] of was like, "Oh man, I was hoping that
[57:37] you wouldn't like it." But
[57:38] >> did you like it?
[57:39] >> Oh, I loved it. I loved it. What I'm
[57:41] saying is like
[57:43] >> I I wanted this Father's Day to be
[57:45] something like cuz this is the only day
[57:47] and Get Away with it. But it just shows
[57:48] me how much I love my wife and how great
[57:50] of taste of movies she has. We have
[57:52] similar taste and she [laughter] if it's
[57:54] a good movie, she's going to like it.
[57:56] Um, but we had a wonderful Father's Day.
[57:58] I like that you chose a movie that you
[58:00] never saw and you like kind of put it in
[58:02] the dad category.
[58:03] >> That is like what if you research like
[58:04] the rewatchables, Jason Conpion was
[58:07] like, "This is definitely a dad movie."
[58:08] And I'm like, "Okay, noted." I was like,
[58:10] "Between that and uh oh, re-watching the
[58:13] pilot of Band of Brothers," cuz Kelly
[58:14] and I are going to rewatch Band of
[58:15] Brothers.
[58:16] >> We've already watched it again.
[58:17] >> I've never watched Band of Brothers, but
[58:19] I also don't know if I should
[58:20] >> this Fourth of July.
[58:21] >> I don't know if I should.
[58:22] >> You should watch Band of Brothers. I
[58:24] don't know. Maybe.
[58:24] >> It's very good.
[58:25] >> It's very, very [laughter] good.
[58:26] >> Maybe I will. Well, is it really sad at
[58:28] parts?
[58:29] >> It is, but
[58:29] >> cuz I started rewatching Sons of Anarchy
[58:31] and then I was like, "Oh, I don't think
[58:32] I can watch this now.
[58:34] >> It's too deep for me. It's too sad." Um,
[58:36] lots of people die in horrible ways.
[58:38] >> Jess, you're getting You're becoming a
[58:40] softy on us.
[58:40] >> I am a very big softy. Oh, I'm very I
[58:42] don't cry. That's why I watch horror
[58:44] movies cuz I don't cry in horror.
[58:45] >> But most horror movies are sad now.
[58:46] >> No, they're not sad. They're people just
[58:48] getting chopped up.
[58:48] >> Well, they're all tragic. They're all
[58:50] like
[58:50] >> No, horror movies is sad.
[58:54] >> I still haven't seen it.
[58:55] >> Really? I still haven't seen it. I'm so
[58:57] behind. You got to watch them while
[58:58] still in theaters. But like none of them
[59:00] are like sad like in the ways that like
[59:02] Wild Robot sad or Toy Story could be
[59:04] sad. Like those are things that I'm like
[59:06] this is emotionally like I can't wa I
[59:09] just can't feel this way right now. My
[59:10] Prozac will not allow me to watch this.
[59:12] [laughter] When I again I got kind of
[59:13] tricked into watching Project Mary. I
[59:15] did not know it was a sad movie. And the
[59:17] entire film I had tissues like this the
[59:19] entire time cuz I could not stop crying.
[59:21] And I I think it's also a we talked
[59:24] about this. It's like um what is it? My
[59:27] biological clock or whatever. When I see
[59:29] cute things that are small or just like
[59:31] need help, I I I react in a way that I
[59:34] can't. That's why I can't watch
[59:35] Gremlins. [laughter]
[59:36] >> Oh.
[59:37] >> And it was really hard for me to see
[59:38] Rocky get hurt.
[59:39] >> And I was just like and like any like
[59:42] Grou the same way. And so like movies
[59:44] that have that and they weaponize that
[59:45] on me, I'm like I can't watch it. I'm
[59:47] going
[59:48] >> Project Hail Mary the movie even toned
[59:51] down that part of from the book. God,
[59:53] >> there's like way more of like um Ryland
[59:56] kind of nursing wounded Rocky back to
[59:59] health. There's like a whole like two
[60:01] [snorts] chapters about it.
[60:02] >> And I've cried I've cried in books. Uh I
[60:04] remember watching me reading me, Earl,
[60:06] and the dying girl and there's still
[60:07] like if you go back to look at my hard
[60:09] cover of it, there's tear [laughter]
[60:10] drops. I [ __ ] up the pages. I was
[60:13] crying. So
[60:14] >> I mean,
[60:14] >> so I'll cry if I read I'm not going to
[60:16] do I would
[60:16] >> most books that I've read I've wept
[60:18] during I reading the the Roherim charge
[60:22] and from Tolken I was crying during that
[60:24] of Harry Potter this final Harry Potter
[60:26] book I was college Eric was weeping
[60:29] while reading Deathly Hallows for sure.
[60:31] >> Yeah, everybody's Harry Potter book is
[60:32] definitely wet.
[60:34] >> It's water damaged. [laughter]
[60:36] >> Oh man. Uh well let us know in the
[60:37] comments below what book or movie made
[60:39] you cry. Cry baby little Bonnie from Toy
[60:43] Story. I'll try to read it unless it's
[60:44] genuinely like the Sophie's choice. I'm
[60:47] not reading it.
[60:48] >> No. Uh, hey, this is great talking about
[60:50] the state of DC Studios with you, Jess.
[60:52] Follow Jess at Lulu Clements. You can
[60:55] follow me at EA Voss. A special thanks
[60:57] to one of our in our underground
[60:58] subscribers, Justin Shonenrock, for
[61:00] supporting us at the executive producer
[61:01] level. You can get all of our exclusive
[61:03] bonus content by clicking on the link in
[61:05] the description below or going to in our
[61:07] underground.supcast.com.
[61:09] [music] I'm over annunciating because
[61:11] I've realized in my recent videos I'm
[61:13] kind of mushmouthing things and I'm like
[61:15] I what's wrong with my body where I
[61:17] cannot annunciate anymore. Thanks to to
[61:19] Brian Kim who um tells us everything
[61:22] that we say every anything that comes
[61:23] out of our mouth. It came out of Brian's
[61:25] mouth first. Uh and to Joshua Steven and
[61:29] Abby Fel um and to all of our supporting
[61:32] editors Eric Gord who edits a lot of our
[61:34] podcasts. Big thanks to everyone at New
[61:37] Rockstars. Thanks for watching and we'll
[61:39] see you next week. Bye, sneaky peakers.
[61:41] >> Bye.
[61:44] [music]