[Music] hey guys what's up it's Charles FL here and welcome back to the channel and welcome back to another video where I'll be interviewing SEO experts and entrepreneurs from around the world in today's very very special episode I am sat with Mr Jackie Chow ladies and gentlemen what's up guys thanks for having me on yeah for sure man so obviously you've done a few videos recently around Paris at SEO and you're one of the people to be fair which last year was probably alongside me one of the biggest proponents in terms of you know Twitter and that kind of SEO influence feere of Paris SEO and the fact that it was absolutely killing it with several sites you could literally buy like $200 posts on and they'd go to number one you know tomorrow kind of thing since then a lot of stuff has happened Google have come out with this manual action they actually recently and I don't know if you've seen this but about 6 hours ago or 12 hours ago so Danny Sullivan did an interview and he did a follow-up question where he talked about the spam reputation abuse policy and he actually said that the algorithmic side they aren't going to release it anytime soon and they're taking it very very seriously which is quite interesting I think from from our side that the fact that obviously hcu they just rolled out and it kind of instantly killed a lot of people's businesses overnight but the the sites that have obviously been abusing a lot of the sites bear in mind are doing it themselves it's not actually you know authentic parasite SEO they've just done it themselves nowadays so I'd like to just start off by kind of getting your opinion on how you think Paris at SEO has changed since last year and how you think Google's reaction has if anything done much damage to it and if it's still as you know I I think we have a slight disagreement when it comes to how effective it can be now versus how it used to be so I just like to see what your thoughts are on it versus then versus now I think yeah yeah yeah um so you were definitely the pioneer of parasite SEO last year I saw your post I was like no way that's that easy and then I tested out a couple posts I'm like okay it is that [ __ ] easy this is ridiculous um the good old Outlook IND days that was insane I did all that in public thankfully because uh I didn't want to how do I say um risk any of our partnership sites so I tested it all it worked extremely well last year like any literally anything best protein powder to best I don't know C CRM software all worked Outlook India all worked um if you interl it like some of the other guys in uh some more sophisticated affiliate guys did it it worked like you could rank for anything uh but I think now after the manual uh site reputation abuse update well it's not really an update they had to manually go in and clap people so it's kind of sus but uh after that I find it I found it like the public parasite sites it was much harder to rank for competitive terms but the quote unquote private or less well-known parasite sites that I've tested which I did a video on recently those still work like a charm so as long as Google doesn't know really know about it just yet it's still easy to abuse um Reddit is extremely easy to abuse right now I think Reddit works the best out of all the quotequote public parasite sites um but besides that I think if you wanted to go after best CBD oil you could have done that with Outlook India you could have done that with any parasite site a year ago but you wouldn't be able to do that with any parasite site right now that's what I'm saying I I do think you could definitely get on page one with parasites right now to be fair for best CD and I think you would have to go down the route of doing either what you have done which is a part partnership deals to be fair or you would have to find a parasite that a is just too expensive for the the average person to even consider it you know you're talking about a $10,000 guess post kind of thing or it is going down and finding sites that nobody has used yet and kind of exploited yet and as you said Google hasn't clocked onto it I think a lot of those sites generally speaking aren't on the subfolders where it's a dedicated subfolder for parasite and we've seen a lot of those subfolders just get whacked and some sites have come back since then I want to kind of talk to you about your Partnerships because I think as you rightly said to be fair that's where a lot of the the big money is is when you can do the additional research and Analysis and get the sites that a either nobody else is using or B nobody else has used yet are you identifying sites to go and reach out to and building that relationship first or are you getting sites coming to you and then kind of reverse engineering that topical Authority and kind of building offers for them or is it the other way around um most of our close rates right now or historically speaking have been people reaching out to us and they range from large bloggers with like dr60 all the way up to like private Equity firms with like six or seven dr80 plus sites and then once we get them in it's like we get all their portfolio um so most of them come inbound but we have been uh scaling up Outreach right now with uh you know our our exact filter is dr60 plus um and then we go out and Outreach to anyone and everyone right now because it's a why not right yeah a shotgun kind of method right but is is it just English or are you doing International Engish just English English Okay do do you have any kind of not to kind of go into other International markets or anything because obviously the alos are so much easier and because Google manually SLA and because Google man these sites they didn't do it in other languages so they haven't slapped any of the parasites in you know French or German or something like that right yeah several people have reached out to me in like Portuguese like Brazilian Portuguese sites like huge like if you check H TR they're like top in their country I just honestly I'm like I have my hands full with the English ones I just Brazilian Portuguese looks extremely good I would look into that German any German is amazing uh besides that I think the Asian languages are crazy too Japanese obviously is crazy but those guys will never sign on like randos like us you know even if they're even if we're like well-known the SEO space I think Japanese people just want to work with Japanese people um Korean the same yeah I think we'd have to it'll have to be like a western country that will be able to sign on with us but it's just not something I looked into just's more money in English more money in English yeah it makes sense right like a lot of the world's capital is kind of in English anyway and things I I do think there are some there are some niches where it's beneficial to do it in the other languages because there's just like less regulation and less kind of insight and things like that and stuff so you can get away with a lot more than you can in English right like being from the and being from Canada and stuff and things there's still certain rules you have to kind of abide by right and stuff and in those other countries and languages they tend to just not give a [ __ ] at all really to be fair right oh I see yeah I don't I don't um I think the the darkest industry I've touched is like not it's it's I don't even do Casino or um payday loans right now my when I say competitive in my Niche is mostly like supplements and Pharma which are like thankfully regulated and legalized even like supplements you have S like peptides and stuff right and that's still yeah pretty pretty under the kind of rug and stuff in pretty gray area when it comes to regulation but obviously it's massive market and you can even know I even know but we definitely Target peptid yeah 100% yeah I know a couple guys that that are cleaning up in that market right I do know though as you just said gambling tends to just be the biggest market like if you go for example the the biggest Market that I know is Indonesian gambling recently to be fair some of the guys yeah some of the guys in that country have been making millions a week like it's and that's in profit like it's that's unheard of generally speaking in a lot of kind of more legitimate markets and stuff right so do you differentiate between the Partnerships and traditional Paris SEO where you would like buying the posts from Al India is it slightly different or is it just the same kind of style and tactic that you group together um yeah it's definitely different with uh Partnerships um parasites I typically use it as a tester and I just do it in public to get get people in for Partnerships um yeah it's I don't really make I think the most amount of money I made from parasites is probably under like 10 grand total um but Partnerships way more uh it's just easier you you don't have to answer to anyone you just you have access and you just run it uh it's great um yeah I don't really differentiate I think my tactics for Partnerships is more legitimate I wouldn't go after the darkest niches like I wouldn't throw on any casinos we have pre-agreed on topics that we go for I always ask if they are down for only fans and they're almost never down so uh I always we we try to set boundaries on like what we're able to do whereas like Paris I'll just test anything like I I just throw it out to see if it ranks right now just have like a good finger on the pulse on the current algo and it's uh as you probably know it's still pretty [ __ ] yeah 100% to to clarify as well is that 10K per page um for parasites yeah I think honestly it's like total dude I most of the money is made in Partnerships yeah I don't really make money on parasites I just do it as testers even when I ranked like what what key words did I rank for I forgot I did a couple in in public for best uh like best Vancouver realtor where like average homes here are like freaking 2 million um I didn't even sell that page I just did it for shits and giggles it's pretty jokes I didn't yeah didn't get paid for that so the for testing right yeah yeah yeah that makes a lot of sense though as well are you optimizing these Pages or is it just your straight AI kind of blasting out as many as you can and letting the root Authority rank them um for Partnerships or parasites or both for both yeah I'm I'm guessing obviously for testing that would be you don't care as much for testing you just want to throw it up and see yeah and get the test out as right yeah but for for pages that you're actually trying to rank right yeah we um humanize and then reoptimize first um so we make sure it passes all AI detector tests which is you know it's a bit [ __ ] still but we we make sure and then we optimize using like Surfer or equivalent um yeah what what's your opinion on kind of the humanization is that a necessity or do you think that gole doesn't it does 100% it does work yeah because unfortunately so if you spam like we've tested it so we've had partnership sites where did not get hit at all fingers crossed right now um Google if you're listening I'm sorry uh but like if we humanized it they wouldn't be able to find it and we just I just don't talk about these sites at all in public and they're humanized under the radar still till this day it's a okay I don't even report their numbers right now that's how scared I am I don't report their numbers um so my daily numbers it does not include these sites we will never find them but they're interesting yeah yeah it's it's part of the same cohort that uh like I did a year ago they're totally fine whereas the other sites where I went aggressive and didn't humanize all got clap okay interesting I I do wonder if it's Google's ability to detect that low quality kind of is it already had that ability with its classification algorithms or if it did actually put in something to try and detect you know pattern-based recognition or something with the AI content or it's just the fact that it could identify these pages are all you know 10 out of 100 quality score so we're just going to clap them anyway kind of thing because the AI doesn't do that extra but there's no images there's no you know additional Bolding or texting or you know stuff like that text formatting yeah no we uh format it pretty heavily um there's additional images they're all unique quot unquote because we edit the images as well there's like a lot we do for the on page and there's like eat that's pretty legit um like if you if I showed you a page right now you'd be like I didn't know that was you um and it'll look like it like it literally looks like one of those Forbes articles you know what I mean with like it's formatted almost exactly the same like goog yeah they're like reviewed by edited by all that kind of stuff yeah and they're all real people we pay real people to um sign off on it but we just use their name like Google would never know I I do think that is really good for future briefing as well because Google is the one thing that people don't consider is that Google is also the biggest entity engine in the world and that they have got pretty much everything kind of named out under OD and recognized at this point I think last time it was something about 200 billion entities or something within within the parameters of of their entity search I do think as you just said there that is going to Future proof versus the fact that Google can very easily in the future discern if this is an AI generated profile or if this is a real human just based on like activity and things like that and history and stuff like that right you creating a new persona you don't have any of that and it's very easy for Google who has the biggest data also in the world to be able to kind of backtrack that stuff yeah and it's also uh important not to go too hard on the content um so we also notice like we've had certain sites partnership sites where we would blast like thousands of Articles a month and then that would get hit really quickly versus where we did like 50 to 100 a month totally okay like under the radar um so it's there's somewhere in between that you get hit I don't know how many right now but um because we tested over like 15 partnership sites at this point do you think that content velocity has any link to the rout authority of the site so like the higher Dr the more you can post kind of thing right that's what I would yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well I think it's more of a ratio it's a ratio between um how they typically post versus now so if it's like a highd I don't know like Tech runch they have hundreds of Articles a day right so if you put another 50 a day I think it should be okay you know uh whereas if it's it's like a dying newspaper where they have one article day and suddenly there's thousands I think it's more like that I think I don't know at this one I don't know for sure but this is how I quotequote feel so I can't speak for certain and I've got a question from James Oliver here as well actually he asks how are you yeah shout out to James as well how are you negotiating the deals with these partnership sites are you doing contracts and stuff as well yeah yeah definitely contracts dude if you don't do contracts these guys will screw you in a Hearts heartbeat um they're Savages some of these guys they're like oh yeah we mostly do handshake deals no they don't they're just trying to screw you as soon as it takes off um contracts it's it's always 50/50 there's no negotiation um you could probably get away with less uh they're like oh yeah but this guy will do it for less I'm like dude go with that guy that guy's never done a partnership in his life he's gonna run your sight to the ground you know what I mean um but it's always 50-50 me and the publisher maybe we do a kickback for an intro sometimes we do like we take 40 10% goes to the intro 50% goes to the publisher publisher only always maximum gets 50 um there's no negotiation so we would say no to certain sites if they they're unwilling to do it um mostly because they come to us now mostly and yeah that power position yeah so the so the the terms are we own the content to to the stuff we create and we get two-year residuals if they want to terminate it's uh super aggressive and uh if they're okay with removing all the content after termination then it's okay but if they want to buy our buy us out it's two years yeah that that is a pretty aggressive contract to be fair I'm surprised that a lot of Publishers sign on to that to be fair like that seems I I guess that though because it's a fit split Equity then that kind of makes sense as well because they're getting yeah exactly that's what I was thinking right yeah so they they you can't really go wrong unless you like tank their site or something yeah like let me walk you through like a scenario of our top performer we hit like 500k Revenue a month on a publisher in two months wow dude they've never seen money like that in their life they're like what the hell is this like they're um 500k in two months and they're like all of a sudden they they're thinking we're too expensive because they're paying a agency 250k a month to manage content that that they think they could have created and uh they've been trying to get out ever since it's pretty pretty jokes um but well they should have created you know yeah I'm like then you guys should have just done it yourself they think they can do it themselves they try to in another subdirectory it just doesn't rank they're like what's going on I'm like dude you guys are idiots stop doing that you know what I mean yeah yeah stick to the stick to the free money PR guys you know um yeah are you building any links to these pages and are you doing internal linking I'm guessing the Partnerships internal linking is a major part of the play but are you building links to them as well internal links for sure you have to it's like Nob brainer it's free um links is only as needed but most of the time it's weird right now um I think you commented on something the other day where I said it Partnerships take a while because we have several sites that finally hit like the upward trajectory after this recent update after six months and we built zero links I thought it was a dud but they start mooing I'm like the [ __ ] I don't even know what's going on several sites that I thought were going to fly and I built links to they just like never flew um even if they're like the highest traffic um most legit sites in our inventory is it's just I I couldn't find a how do I see say uh couldn't find any relationship between the two so we don't really build back links unless it's like already on the front page like positions 5 to 10 and we wanted to get to top three then we do it and it's worked but um going from if we're on page five we don't start building back things until it's like you know page two-ish if that makes sense yeah it's more retrospective right yeah yeah because we have so many pages it's like sometimes thousands of pages between 15 Publishers it's how do we build links for that like even with my budget it's like it's hard that that was kind of perfectly getting on my next question which is how are you managing all of these pages right is it all just rank track as vas and teams and and kind of uh continually building towards a calendar plan of what pages you're going to put on what site and things like that yeah yeah yeah yeah um we have a massive calendar plan and we go harder on sites that are doing well right now and we cut back on sites that aren't doing well or stagnant so we probably have to revisit that because certain sites take off after like I mentioned months but um yeah it's uh mostly Google Sheets vas Trello slack and that's it that's pretty simple it's actually not that bad and have a master sheet of Partnerships that's how we do it oh well that makes yeah that makes a lot with all the Ms and stuff are you blasting pages from different domains the same keyword or is it all just unique offers for each site and things yeah same keywords it's it's like but because how I got clapped before we do slight like I would say 50% different keywords every time 50 to 60 um but the main ones because I know I can fill them with uh Rank and rents I call it Rank and rents probably not the right term but like retail Rank and rents where Brands pay us to be number one um yeah we I have like a huge list of people who paid historically and we're trying to get back there and yep it's working so far so there's like a lot of low competition like on it's not really low competition but on ATR it's like KD Z to 10 but they're high volume supplement keywords and we're able still able to lock it in yeah do you ever use free parasites you said earlier that Reddit is is really good as well but are you using Reddit and YouTube and Linkedin to kind of supplement these rankings or or is it mostly just the Partnerships and and the pay parasites my revenue is like 99% I would say uh Partnerships free parasites I've tested with no success in besides reddit reddit has worked I did [ __ ] I I shouldn't have done this in public but remember I don't know if you saw but I did a Reddit subdirectory in public a 301 like 10 domains to it and it started ranking very well but then Reddit removed that whole subreddit because they're like something like against to some [ __ ] but they probably just found it that uh we're just abusing it heavily probably got an reporting you it's one of the white hats probably just reported it to Reddit and you got moderated I think they do that I don't think so 100 I guarantee you somebody was watching your videos and started reporting you to Reddit mods 100% like yeah I really yeah because like if you think about it the if for you to get moderated and removed off the platform there's 99.99% of Reddit mods are never going to be looking at the link profile for like one redirect and stuff right like they're never going to find that the only way they're going to find it is a if they see like promotions on platform so they've searched for a keyword and they found your subreddit or they've actually looked on the uh Reddit platform and found your pages and again that is very very rare in itself or you just got reported like I I I genuinely probably would put more money on somebody reporting you to be fair right and Reddit has purposely tried to clean up a lot recently because they've seen it like I I would actually say that Reddit has done a better job of cleaning up their spam then Google has done of cleaning up RIT spam in their servs which is quite funny right yeah okay so are you going are you doing ongoing maintenance of these Pages or are you just kind of letting them so you did say that you were building the the link on retrospectively and stuff but I'm guessing you are doing some level of Maintenance updating freshness that kind of thing right yeah but then freshness we just run my plugin um we just change the publish date change the first paragraph of every article um and we update whenever people pay us more and newer offers that's it um because yeah we try to get paid at least 40% commissions on the articles that we rank for and we only go to Amazon all these like custom affiliate guys trying to get us on fan Fuel and sale Health there's how do they compete if they're trying to offer you the same commission but one goes to Amazon and the other goes to their shitty landing page I'm obviously going with Amazon you know what I mean uh it's gets paid way more but like shout out to ffield and sell they sponsor my [ __ ] so I can't see that do do you do you promote any direct offers so not through a network but directly promoting you know a manufacturer or or a retail or something yeah if they pay us and yeah yeah several they were they're still paying us um yeah there's the most have ever gotten paid to be ranked number one plus 40% commission is like 40K us damn a month is is that basis so you hit the you hit the rank and then they pay you out uh yeah we're number one we're number one at that time um not anymore but uh yeah number one at that time it's it's insane the sheer amount of money it's just VC money though these guys raise a ton of money they don't even care they just BL on us they're sitting on like Frenchy Resorts and stuff half the time uh what are you what are your kind of ranking in R time time frames now so right so obviously last year immediately thought page Rank and to be fair in in a lot of niches and in some instances and it's for for me anyway it's mostly site dependent right like I have got a lot of campaigns where I can throw up a a page and it will rank tomorrow it's just very very dependent on the site that I'm building on right like a good portion of the public parasite sites that a lot of people know they won't do that anymore because Google's I think put some kind of manual limitations or clap some sub folds or something like that on it and it might even just be like a crawling and indexing limitation like some sort of a Sandbox and people are saying sandbox doesn't exist it just got proved so what are your kind of recent Roi and ranking time frames for these Pages yeah well Roi depends on what you mean by the investment because if it's Partnerships it's zero um cost the page yeah it's like negligible because it's AI content right and we've been revisiting that but uh we've been using koala historically and we just get free credits because we're large affiliate for them um Cup's great as well it's dude you know the cost it's like cents right per article I I'm out of touch but it's just cents per article I think we we've got it down to about seven or eight cents per thousand words now with Kaa so that's crazy yeah you guys are definitely way lower than koala um but I don't pay for that so I don't know um yeah I I think Roi is like pretty damn high but I think where what we have to be careful about is because I do have a limitation on how many articles I can humanize at the same time so we have to be more careful of the like the partners we take on so there's a lot of partners that if you check ATS they're like clapped we wouldn't take them because it's like what's the point of us turning out hundreds of articles for not to rank so we could mostly tell like if they used to be a million sessions a month now they're at like 50k sessions a month they're like oh we're finally ready for Partnerships I'm like sorry we're not we're not going to do that unless you're down for only fans so because only fans is actually low low competition um so yeah yeah we I I sit all the time with the free parasites ranking for like only fans leak keywords or profile keywords or something like that and it tends to just be from what I can tell kind of moving from what like one famous profile and getting them to go to another profile and stuff like that right it's kind of a a like inad kind of way of marketing don't know they do but the search volumes are absolutely insane like if you see some of the forums that are ranking for like only fans keywords they just go like this and they have like 30 million visits a month out of nowhere and that's incorrect by the way it's typically like 50 to 100% more C really wow okay yeah dude I mean you saw the only fans numbers right cuz it's public in the UK they're growing so quick volumes are way higher than on whatever all the tools say so yeah in some instances is like 10x what what you're seeing yeah okay yeah we I don't do any adult so this is the one inside that's actually pretty interesting and I would normally presume the traffic is worth less but obviously if you're talking those numbers it really doesn't matter because you're getting 30 million clicks a month like you're just laughing yeah yeah and there's several networks out there now they paper click so you don't they don't even have to convert anymore it's crazy wow okay yeah that's pretty interesting okay awesome well this has been a really interesting chat and I know a lot of people at home are going to get a lot out of this I'm guessing people can just find you online by searching indexi on YouTube y I know post today just come find me somewhere I I'll leave I'll leave links to the description in to you in the description down below I'll see you guys in the next episode Peace take easy guys