[0:12] My name is John. I'm about taking notes.
[0:15] I'm about fanning flames. And these guys
[0:18] are here to talk about games. Yes, it's
[0:20] the DFresher Super Show and we're
[0:22] entering into summer. I've got uh DJ
[0:25] Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince going on
[0:27] in the background. And we're gonna
[0:29] reminisce about E3 because I miss it. It
[0:33] used to happen every year for almost 20
[0:35] years and now it's gone. But uh in its
[0:39] place, we have Summer Games Fest, which
[0:40] isn't quite the same. But we thought
[0:42] today we would go through and talk about
[0:44] some of the great moments in E3 history,
[0:46] our personal experiences with E3, and
[0:48] generally reflect back on that sort of
[0:50] period because I think all the
[0:52] excitement around it is one of the
[0:53] reasons we probably got into games to
[0:56] begin with. Uh but first, the cast
[1:00] making his return after a long exodus.
[1:05] We have Audi. He feels just like a
[1:08] purple Pikmin. It's early.
[1:10] >> I'm ready to boom boom shake the room
[1:12] with you today. Uh
[1:14] >> it's good to be back. Yeah, thanks so
[1:16] much. And what a topic. What a time.
[1:19] >> What a place.
[1:20] >> E3, man.
[1:21] >> We And we shared an E3 together that
[1:24] we'll get to and it was a very good
[1:25] time. We have some very good stories to
[1:27] share that I don't know if we've talked
[1:29] about before.
[1:30] >> Uh in brackets at least. Uh there's
[1:33] probably still stories we can't share
[1:35] for legal and sexual reasons, but either
[1:38] try. There's there's things to discuss.
[1:41] >> But of course, we're not alone. In the
[1:44] other chair, we have Mark, "My body is
[1:47] ready." Dles,
[1:49] >> I I am so impressed with that intro you
[1:51] did. Like, usually you have to be like,
[1:53] "Wait, nope. Nope. I want to do it
[1:54] again." Like, you just, man, you just
[1:56] went for that one and it's like the best
[1:58] one. Like, man, wow. You didn't even
[2:01] write that down.
[2:03] You know, I was ready, baby. Just Just
[2:05] like your body. Your Yeah. All All our
[2:07] bodies are ready. Indeed. Including the
[2:10] fourth man. Not the third man. The
[2:12] fourth man. I'm afraid this is not uh
[2:15] you know, mid90s.
[2:17] Wo. Here. It's the man himself, Cory
[2:20] Carlson.
[2:22] >> Hey, I'm back. Ready to go. Uh, you
[2:25] know, that little I was absent last
[2:27] week. No experience with a 007 really.
[2:30] Uh, so it's it's good to be back talking
[2:32] about E3 and maybe a little little CES,
[2:36] >> but of course there is a little CES
[2:37] action in here. Uh, but before that,
[2:39] head over to digitalfoundry.net, check
[2:41] out the Patreon. We really appreciate
[2:44] the support of you guys making this
[2:45] podcast possible. And yes, I swear there
[2:47] will be some more proper DF Retro
[2:49] episodes coming soon. So, look out for
[2:51] that. But for now, let's hop into the
[2:54] news/ what we've been playing section of
[2:56] the show where we talk about the news
[2:58] and what we've been playing.
[3:03] Starting with what Tri's been playing. I
[3:06] want to talk about this. Ultimate Ghosts
[3:08] and Goblins for the PSP. Famously
[3:10] trashed by Jeremy Parish. It created a
[3:13] nightmare for him as people were very
[3:15] angry about this. Uh but this game is
[3:18] extremely controversial, I think,
[3:20] because it's super hard as you'd expect
[3:22] from the series, but in some rather
[3:24] unique ways. And try I can't believe it.
[3:28] you've actually sat down and you went
[3:29] through the whole thing and you finished
[3:32] it. So, this is not the Kai version. The
[3:34] Kai version is like an overhauled
[3:36] alternate version that was released in
[3:37] Japan. This is the original version.
[3:39] >> Yeah, I played the American release. So,
[3:42] uh it it it is infamously brutal. Uh but
[3:45] I still was not prepared for just how
[3:47] brutal it is. I mean, it's it's the kind
[3:49] of thing that you're going through it
[3:50] and you're you're you're like starting
[3:51] to question if the if you even like this
[3:54] series like like wait what did I enjoy
[3:57] these games when I played the other
[3:59] ones? I can't remember for sure. Uh but
[4:02] yeah, this uh I I just wanted to talk
[4:03] about this because it it really was a
[4:06] uniquely brutal experience that I have
[4:09] gone through. uh played it over uh four
[4:13] weeks of Monday backloggery streams uh
[4:17] which are like four plus hour streams.
[4:19] So it yeah it it took a lot of time and
[4:21] effort. Um
[4:23] kind of what's interesting about how
[4:26] brutal this game is is that it kind of
[4:30] lulls you into this sense of security
[4:32] from time to time because you know
[4:35] you've got a save system as you would
[4:37] expect from the PSP. you've got uh the
[4:40] uh you know checkpoints before every
[4:42] boss and the bosses are actually all
[4:45] pretty easy. Uh so there's little things
[4:49] like that. There are warp stabs. There's
[4:51] this kind of uh system where things that
[4:55] you uh need to proceed to the final
[4:59] boss. Uh, and some other other optional
[5:02] items that sort of actually do make a a
[5:04] big difference in playability like um uh
[5:07] the ability to uh you know uh reduce
[5:10] your magic costs and uh uh other things
[5:14] like that. Uh you get uh you can use
[5:17] flying armor, you can use a shield that
[5:20] actually let you fly for a while. Like
[5:21] there's all these little things. It's
[5:22] like oh this seems nice. This seems
[5:24] nice. Uh but then you think, okay,
[5:27] instead of making you replay the whole
[5:29] game from the beginning, you know, the
[5:31] the infamous ghosts and goblins loop, uh
[5:35] that's what the warp stabs are because
[5:36] you do have to revisit the levels and
[5:38] collect these gold rings and other
[5:40] things so you can proceed to the final
[5:41] boss. And you're like, "Okay, that's a
[5:43] clever twist." And you go, you fight
[5:46] Asteroth, as you do, and you still have
[5:50] to loop the whole game again. And they
[5:52] take away all your warp stavs. Uh, and
[5:54] you have to find every single red chest
[5:56] in the game. You know, those hidden
[5:58] chests that just, you know, you you jump
[6:00] past a random trigger point and they
[6:02] appear. You have to find every single
[6:05] ring, which I think there's 33 gold
[6:06] rings in the game. You have to find all
[6:09] of these things to actually proceed to
[6:13] the true final boss. And it it's just it
[6:16] is it's madness. It is madness. That's
[6:20] just to say nothing of the the normal
[6:22] ghosts and goblins difficulty. I mean,
[6:24] even though yes, you get flying armor,
[6:27] flying shields, uh all these nice
[6:30] things,
[6:31] and you end up beating the levels like
[6:34] at least four times over the course of
[6:37] finishing the game. It's still it still
[6:40] continues to be so difficult. Uh, I I
[6:42] know John, you have more experience with
[6:44] the Kai version, which I think modified
[6:46] some things and maybe makes it a little
[6:48] more approachable, but you still never
[6:50] finished it.
[6:51] >> No, I never really did. Uh, it's it's
[6:55] such a what what a brutal game this is,
[6:58] right? Like it's just it's exactly like
[7:00] you said where the redesign kind of is
[7:04] like a balanced tweak and it plays out
[7:07] more like the arcade game and it has
[7:09] like different enemy placements and it
[7:12] actually has like limited continues and
[7:13] stuff like that. So it kind of remove
[7:15] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[7:17] >> And it actually, you know, has proper
[7:19] lives and stuff so it plays out more
[7:22] like the originals, I guess you could
[7:24] say. Um, and it's like a you do like a
[7:28] loop I think to finish it and then you
[7:29] do the second loop, but it's not like
[7:31] the whole warp staff stuff. You're not
[7:32] like walking around and doing all that.
[7:34] So, it basically just makes it a more
[7:36] straightforward version of the game.
[7:37] >> Yeah, like I said, the warp stabs
[7:40] basically make it so you end up playing
[7:42] every level at least four times most
[7:44] likely. It's it's it's insane. Uh, yeah,
[7:48] >> I do think it's a cool game. It's an
[7:50] interesting idea. It's just it's very
[7:52] very brutal. But I mean, the series is
[7:54] known for that. And I think it's cool
[7:56] that they tried to do something
[7:58] different with it. You know, they were
[8:00] like, "How can we evolve this formula?"
[8:02] >> Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, Corey, I'm hoping
[8:04] that when I get around to what was the
[8:07] new one called, uh, Rebirth or
[8:09] >> Resurrection.
[8:10] >> Oh, Resurrection.
[8:12] >> I I I mean, you it didn't take you that
[8:14] long to get through that one, right?
[8:16] >> No, no, no. I think that that one dialed
[8:19] back a lot of the annoying stuff that
[8:21] was in
[8:22] >> was was in uh uh Ultimate, but uh and
[8:26] and kind of goes back to what is was fun
[8:28] about the original ones, specifically
[8:30] the first two, especially the way that
[8:31] it recycles well, I guess, the first
[8:34] three. So, it recycles levels from those
[8:36] games.
[8:37] >> Basically, I'm glad I did it. You know,
[8:40] I I get very stubborn about beating
[8:43] games by the original rules. you know, I
[8:45] don't like using save states or, you
[8:48] know, modifications to make them nicer.
[8:50] You know, I I I'm glad that stuff exists
[8:52] for people who want it, but there's
[8:53] always this voice in the back of my head
[8:55] that's just like, you're not playing it
[8:57] by the the real vanilla rules of the
[9:00] game. So, I don't recommend anyone play
[9:03] through this game the way I did. Uh, but
[9:06] I am glad I did it, you know.
[9:09] >> So, the question is, did you did you
[9:10] play on real PSP hardware? Uh, I ended
[9:13] up playing on PSTV because so I was
[9:16] originally going to play on real PSP,
[9:19] but uh I've taken all of my batteries
[9:23] out of my PSPs uh out of fear of battery
[9:26] bloat and I very quickly realized that
[9:31] it was going to be a problem because uh
[9:34] just a little bit in in my PSP 3000 just
[9:37] a little bit of wiggling on that uh
[9:39] power connector can cause it to the
[9:42] system to reset. So that's annoying.
[9:45] >> Okay.
[9:45] >> Yeah. So I ultimately played on PSTV,
[9:49] but the input lag wasn't too bad. I used
[9:51] a DualShock 3, you know, uh I had to use
[9:55] Adrenaline, uh on my hacked PSTV, uh
[9:58] which can have a good bit of input lag,
[10:01] but it's better if you use a DualShock 3
[10:04] instead of a DualShock 4. Um, but the
[10:07] game is still 30 frames per second,
[10:09] which if the pace the game moves is not
[10:12] that terrible. Um, but it was it was an
[10:17] okay way to play the game, but I I would
[10:19] have preferred to have played on
[10:20] original hardware. But yeah, the reason
[10:23] I mentioned that try is that actually
[10:24] ties into a second bit of news I wanted
[10:26] to mention today. Uh from a developer go
[10:29] note going by M-SID,
[10:32] a new solution for PSP was released
[10:34] allowing you to overclock the system way
[10:37] beyond the previously maximum 333 MHz.
[10:42] Most systems can now reach 463 MHz, but
[10:46] I think it's actually possible to go as
[10:48] high as like 500 something. And
[10:51] basically this massive increase in clock
[10:54] speed allows you to overcome performance
[10:57] in games that had issues. So like now
[10:59] you can play something like Outrun 2 at
[11:00] a very smooth 60 instead of an unstable
[11:03] 60 with the normal overclock and like a
[11:06] horrible 20 to 30 with the stock speeds.
[11:09] Uh it also means that some games have uh
[11:12] patches. A lot of the patches were
[11:14] designed for use on like the emulation,
[11:17] but you can actually apply them to real
[11:19] PSP games. And naturally, if you, you
[11:22] know, normally if you just put the patch
[11:23] on, you're just un you're just removing
[11:25] the frame rate cap, right? And that
[11:27] doesn't necessarily mean your experience
[11:28] is good. But now you can overclock it so
[11:30] far. This means we can take a bunch of
[11:32] games that were previously limited up to
[11:34] like 60 or even just a stable 30. So
[11:38] like it's so the this game for instance,
[11:41] Ultimate Ghouls and Ghost does have a
[11:42] patch from what I can tell that allows
[11:44] you to run it at 60. So conceivably with
[11:47] this overclocked then you should be able
[11:48] to run it at 60 on the real hardware. My
[11:51] my fallback solution was actually going
[11:53] to be PPSSP,
[11:55] but uh it's interesting you Yeah, it's
[11:58] interesting you bring up the emulation
[12:00] though because uh this was the first
[12:03] time I mean I've not used PSPsPP
[12:07] super extensively, but this was the
[12:09] first time I actually ran into a visual
[12:11] glitch that I could not get rid of.
[12:13] Whoa.
[12:13] >> Um where the bloom effect like gets
[12:16] really glitchy uh in Ultimate Ghost and
[12:18] Goblins. You can see it from the very
[12:20] first level. Anytime there's like an
[12:22] enemy that has like a bloom effect and
[12:24] the background like also does a bloom
[12:26] effect that like snaps on off it's
[12:28] combat. Uh and I could not figure out
[12:30] how to get rid of it. It also happened
[12:31] for you know my friend Jumble who was
[12:33] playing it alongside me on the back
[12:35] lotteryy streams. Um
[12:38] he he he was like what? I don't see the
[12:40] problem. And I pointed out and he's like
[12:41] oh okay I don't care. I'm like no I will
[12:43] not play this game this way. So, I spent
[12:46] a bunch of time getting it running on my
[12:49] hacked PSTV instead. Uh, just so I
[12:52] wouldn't have to deal with that issue.
[12:53] If anyone knows how to get rid of that
[12:56] bloom glitch in PPSSP in Ultimate Ghost
[12:59] and Goblins, please tell me because I'm
[13:00] very
[13:01] >> I love how you very curious.
[13:03] >> Spell it out every time
[13:05] >> because it would be it would be uh cool
[13:08] to play this with with a with a uh 60fps
[13:12] agree hack. Uh, and I would be curious
[13:14] to see that running on original hardware
[13:16] or uh can you use this uh mod on PSTV or
[13:21] VA? Do you know, John? Or
[13:23] >> I don't know cuz to use these patches
[13:26] involves there's like an application I
[13:28] forget what it's called that you use on
[13:29] a custom firmware system that allows you
[13:32] to like apply patches to games. And if
[13:35] you can do that on the PSP side of the
[13:37] PSTV, then it should work,
[13:39] >> right? I mean, in Adrenaline, right?
[13:42] It's like a whole PSP,
[13:44] >> right? So, it should technically be
[13:46] possible, I would imagine. And who
[13:48] knows? I mean, maybe the PSTV can be
[13:49] overclocked like crazy high.
[13:52] >> Yeah,
[13:52] >> because it's like
[13:53] >> it already has been, I think, to some
[13:55] extent for uh VA games on there.
[13:57] >> Yeah. And just by default, by the way,
[13:59] playing PSP games on a VA, it does run
[14:02] faster than a stock VA.
[14:04] >> Oh, I didn't know that.
[14:05] >> Yeah. Like I noticed
[14:06] >> Oh, you mean a stock PSP?
[14:08] >> Sorry. A stock PSP, right? So, like you
[14:12] play Maverick Hunter X for instance, it
[14:14] always hits that's a 60 FPS game, but
[14:16] whenever the boss shows up, there's
[14:18] always a lot of slowdown for that logo
[14:20] crawl. But on a PS Vita, it just
[14:22] naturally runs at full speed. It also
[14:24] runs at full speed on a normal 333
[14:26] overclocked VA. It's um so it was always
[14:30] just like limited by the hardware.
[14:32] >> I did not know that. Interesting. To be
[14:34] honest, I've never really been clear on
[14:35] what the backwards compatibility
[14:37] mechanism for PSP on VA is. Like I don't
[14:40] know if it's hardware emulation quasi
[14:43] emulation. I've never known.
[14:45] >> It's I I actually forget. I may have
[14:48] known at some point, but I don't
[14:49] remember off the top of my head.
[14:51] >> I just know that the resolution they
[14:52] picked for VA is exactly four times the
[14:55] pixel count, so everything would scale
[14:57] super cleanly, which is
[14:58] >> two on X-axis. Yeah.
[15:00] >> Yep. Which was a good idea. So
[15:02] >> Oh, yeah.
[15:02] >> All right. Anyway,
[15:03] >> wait. Well, I do want to ask really
[15:05] quick. I want to ask Tri if he would
[15:06] rate this game higher than a two out of
[15:08] 10.
[15:09] Oh. Uh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean,
[15:12] I think I would give it
[15:15] >> a three.
[15:17] >> I'd probably give it a five.
[15:19] >> Okay.
[15:20] >> Out of 10.
[15:21] >> Out of 10.
[15:21] >> Okay. Not out of 50.
[15:25] >> Not out of 50. No.
[15:26] >> So, 2.5 out of five.
[15:28] >> Yeah.
[15:29] >> Slight slightly better.
[15:31] >> That's funny.
[15:32] >> Solid five. Yeah.
[15:33] >> I remember review.
[15:35] >> Yeah. I mean, and Jeremy got a lot of
[15:37] [ __ ] for it. I think unfairly so, cuz
[15:40] people aren't able to understand that
[15:42] everybody has different opinions on
[15:44] stuff. Uh, but either way, I like that
[15:48] game, but I do I did prefer the Mega Man
[15:50] remakes they did for PSP. I love
[15:53] Maverick Hunter X or Irregular Hunter X
[15:56] and Rockman Rockman. Those are freaking
[15:58] great.
[15:59] >> The voice acting in Maverick Hunter X in
[16:02] the US version is hilarious. X is so
[16:05] intense. He's He just screams every
[16:07] single line pretty much.
[16:08] >> Looks like you've gone maverick.
[16:10] >> Oh, dude. I need to check that.
[16:12] >> You're insane.
[16:14] >> You're insane.
[16:16] >> I I do enjoy those Mega Man games on PSP
[16:19] a whole heck of a lot.
[16:20] >> Yeah.
[16:20] >> Yeah, they're great. They're great.
[16:22] >> I can understand why why uh the Mega Man
[16:26] one remake was not Mega Man Powered Up
[16:29] didn't sell very well. I mean, I think
[16:31] that for people that
[16:32] >> were looking for Mega Man games, seeing
[16:34] something that looked like that was
[16:36] probably not very uh appealing, but I
[16:40] thought it was great. It was very fun.
[16:41] It was like, you know, like like a
[16:42] chibiized uh kid version of it.
[16:45] >> Yeah.
[16:46] >> Today, we'll probably
[16:49] >> Yes. Yeah.
[16:50] >> Can Can we just pivot to doing a PSP
[16:53] episode?
[16:55] Uh, we need
[16:56] >> I'm all I'm on a I'm all in a P I'm all
[16:59] in a PSP mood now. I'm joking. Of
[17:01] course,
[17:01] >> I'm not because I have a bloated
[17:03] Yesterday I was dealing with my battery
[17:06] and it's bloated. So, uh I don't I can't
[17:09] play it right now.
[17:10] >> Uh which frustrates me because it it's
[17:12] only a year since I changed it out.
[17:15] >> So,
[17:16] >> check those lithium ion batteries,
[17:18] everybody.
[17:18] >> That's a new battery that you bought.
[17:20] >> Yeah, it's a third party one though, so
[17:22] I'm I'm suspecting something to do with
[17:25] that.
[17:25] >> That's crazy. Sitting in a warehouse for
[17:28] 10 years. I I really need I really need
[17:31] to buy some kind of replacement battery
[17:32] for my PSP. Maybe people in the comments
[17:35] can give us some uh some some good links
[17:38] to good ones because uh it it is
[17:40] difficult to play my PSP without battery
[17:42] in it because I am so nervous about
[17:45] >> wiggling that power adapter. And
[17:47] >> man, I I have never had a swollen
[17:49] battery on any of my PSPs, including my
[17:51] launch day one. They're perfect. They
[17:53] still work.
[17:54] >> People just like overwhelmingly
[17:56] recommend that you take them out as a
[17:57] precaution.
[17:58] >> No. Yeah, I agree. It's just I'm I'm
[18:00] surprised because like they all still
[18:03] work. Uh
[18:05] >> mine did too when I took them out, but I
[18:07] I
[18:07] >> The system from that era that impresses
[18:09] me the most though is the the Game Boy
[18:12] Micro.
[18:13] >> Yeah,
[18:13] >> cuz like
[18:14] >> I haven't used the Micro that much in a
[18:16] long time because it's so small, right?
[18:18] That's the whole thing. But uh I turned
[18:21] mine on in the last month because I saw
[18:22] it in a drawer. I haven't charged it in
[18:25] like 10 years. It still turns on.
[18:27] >> Yeah. I I I literally
[18:30] >> How?
[18:31] >> I had literally never even charged mine
[18:33] until maybe like six years ago.
[18:37] >> Because I like I bought it more as like
[18:39] a collector's item just because I at
[18:40] that time I had every Game Boy. I'm
[18:42] like, "Okay, I'm going to buy the
[18:43] Famicom
[18:45] >> uh Game Boy Micro. I used it in a couple
[18:48] of videos but never like really played
[18:51] it. And then I was like setting up like
[18:53] a Game Boy charging station. I'm like I
[18:55] literally don't even know what power
[18:56] adapter goes on this. I don't recognize
[18:58] this port. And then I found the adapter
[19:00] and it still had the the zip uh the the
[19:02] like the twist tie on it. I'm like I
[19:05] literally never charged this thing and
[19:07] it just
[19:07] >> and the DS the uh well at least the DS
[19:10] uh light definitely had a battery that
[19:12] just lasted forever. I think we're gonna
[19:14] see a huge epidemic though in the next
[19:16] 10 years where people's batteries are
[19:18] just going to bulge like they're gonna
[19:19] find their old systems in a drawer and
[19:21] it's just gonna be like cracked open and
[19:24] stuff from the the battery experience.
[19:26] >> Yeah, that's a shame, man. I I
[19:28] >> controllers, all kinds of stuff is going
[19:30] to happen with
[19:31] >> Oh boy. Yep. But anyway, we'll get to
[19:35] that once our controllers start
[19:36] exploding. But for now, let's move on to
[19:38] the next bit of of news. Uh, one that
[19:42] really excited me as well, Castlevania
[19:44] Circle of the Moon is being ported to
[19:47] the Sega Genesis Mega Drive and there's
[19:50] a full demo out. That's the entire first
[19:52] area of that game. We talked about this
[19:54] on our GBA launch episode. This was the
[19:57] launch Castlevania for Game Boy Advance.
[20:00] And yeah, it now is like it's crazy.
[20:04] It's really cool to see. And it's a
[20:07] weird combo because they haven't really
[20:10] they tried very closely or they tried
[20:13] very hard to retain the original art,
[20:15] right? So all the sprites, background
[20:17] ties, it's all derived from GBA, but
[20:19] obviously the pallet's been shifted to
[20:21] work in the Mega Drive, but uh they've
[20:25] kept the pixel size, which basically
[20:27] means now it just increases the field of
[20:30] view that you see. The original game is
[20:31] more widescreen with that with that sort
[20:33] of GBA aspect ratio and now it's like
[20:35] proper 4x3 which basically means you see
[20:38] more of the game world above and below.
[20:41] Uh but other than that like it feels
[20:43] like surprisingly faithful. Like yes
[20:46] fewer colors. You can certainly tell
[20:48] that. But I feel like they did a good
[20:49] job with the conversion and the
[20:51] soundtrack conversion is awesome. It
[20:53] sounds really good on that sound chip.
[20:56] It's a really nice version of the music.
[20:58] I have not tried this yet, but I I I'm
[21:01] really curious about how it was ported
[21:03] technically because if you're increasing
[21:05] the field of view like you know are are
[21:07] they actually like relying on the
[21:09] original game code underneath it and
[21:13] >> I don't know does that not create
[21:14] >> problem being rebuilt with like SGDK
[21:18] >> or something like that. So,
[21:20] >> but
[21:21] >> yeah, probably
[21:23] >> if you look at that first area like that
[21:25] first cut scene, right?
[21:27] >> You you see the top is like framed like
[21:29] the Game Boy Advance screen, but you
[21:31] actually see the brick area below the
[21:33] floor, which is where you're going to
[21:35] drop to next, but it's almost like, you
[21:37] know, you're seeing what you shouldn't
[21:38] see.
[21:39] >> Yeah.
[21:39] >> But it works. It works. Okay.
[21:43] >> Uh it's cool seeing these ports though
[21:44] to the uh the Mega Drive or Genesis. Uh
[21:47] because recently there was a um I think
[21:50] this has been in work in the works for a
[21:51] while, but there was a Rondo of Blood
[21:53] port also to the Mega Drive,
[21:55] >> right?
[21:56] >> And the Symphony of the Night.
[21:58] >> Um
[21:59] >> yeah,
[21:59] >> and yeah, there's plenty of like ports
[22:02] being done that we've seen like one
[22:05] level demos of, so hopefully some of
[22:08] them will come to full fruition.
[22:10] >> I wonder what it is about Castlevania
[22:13] games that people just want to put those
[22:14] on the Genesis or Mega Drive. I mean,
[22:18] the Mega Drive is just popular to work
[22:20] on. And I do think part of it, people
[22:22] love the system, but I do think part of
[22:23] it is that because it's a Motorola uh
[22:26] 68,000based system. It's just like that
[22:29] was such a prolific CPU and it's one
[22:33] that people like working with that I
[22:34] think it makes it like a really great
[22:36] candidate for just, you know, porting
[22:38] stuff. Plus, SGDK
[22:42] uh is awesome and it's really open it's
[22:45] opened the door to like just like making
[22:47] it easy to actually develop games for
[22:49] the system. I mean even stuff like
[22:51] Earthon I think uses it, right?
[22:53] >> Yeah. which
[22:55] >> so
[22:56] >> so like old school seg guys guys that
[22:59] worked on this hardware are still like
[23:01] using it and embracing it and it is just
[23:03] like a development environment for the
[23:05] Mega Drive that handles a lot of the
[23:07] annoying stuff that you might have
[23:08] otherwise had to deal with from back
[23:10] then. So I think that is just awesome.
[23:12] Yeah, it's a question that comes up a
[23:14] lot with the aftermarket stuff is why
[23:16] there's so much focus on Mega Drive. And
[23:18] it really just comes down to
[23:19] documentation and available tools
[23:21] because Super Nintendo is getting more
[23:25] focus now, but for many years, uh, you
[23:28] did see a few like um that fighting
[23:30] game, which I forget, Undead Something,
[23:33] and a few others. Um, but they're kind
[23:36] of
[23:36] >> Undead Nights or something. Yeah, Un
[23:38] Nightsights I think it was, which was
[23:39] from formers SNK people, but it runs
[23:42] like garbage.
[23:43] >> Um, and just uh it was a much more of a
[23:47] limited market for the Super Nintendo.
[23:49] And it really just came down to proper
[23:51] documentation and especially than tools,
[23:54] which the Mega Drive has had.
[23:55] >> Right. Right. Right.
[23:56] >> A 10-year run ahead of Super Nintendo.
[24:00] >> It it does. Exactly. It's actually
[24:02] that's one another one to mention real
[24:04] quick is uh Maldita
[24:06] >> Castillia.
[24:07] that that awesome game that's getting an
[24:09] official Mega Drive version and
[24:11] including a cart release. They actually
[24:13] released a demo just recently
[24:16] >> and it's really good. Right.
[24:17] >> Is that
[24:18] >> is that Chris Castillia from Loco?
[24:22] >> Correct. It's that game, but it's
[24:23] getting an actual Mega Drive port. So
[24:26] again, it's like
[24:28] >> it's just cool as heck to see this
[24:29] stuff. And I I love that the system
[24:31] remains so vibrant.
[24:32] >> And I do hope that Super NES starts to
[24:34] catch up. And also PC Engine like I mean
[24:37] there is some PC Engine homebrew and we
[24:40] have some of it but it's pretty rare. I
[24:41] feel like people don't make much for the
[24:43] PC Engine.
[24:44] >> Yeah, it was FX FX unit Yuki came out.
[24:47] Yep. And then the Jesse K Casper or
[24:51] something like the Indiana Jones like
[24:52] girl game.
[24:54] >> Um
[24:55] >> and I mean even as we record this, we
[24:57] just got an official announcement of
[24:59] Cuphead coming to Master System,
[25:01] >> right? So, I mean, like it's weird to
[25:04] see like these things officially coming
[25:07] back
[25:08] >> uh on release systems, but I love it. I
[25:10] mean, I' I've been collecting
[25:11] aftermarket stuff since early 2010s, if
[25:14] not a little bit before.
[25:16] >> Um, so for me, this is good news.
[25:19] >> And apparently, Cuphead is actually
[25:21] being developed and assembly.
[25:26] which uh a lot you know as I mentioned
[25:28] SGDK is super cool but and it has opened
[25:31] the door to making it easier to work on
[25:33] the system but if you go back like 10
[25:36] years you have something like Matt
[25:37] Phillips Tanglewood
[25:39] >> which he actually also did 100% like
[25:41] assembly build so like that was all like
[25:43] his own code figuring out the the system
[25:46] from scratch.
[25:47] >> Yeah.
[25:48] >> Which was really like on a real
[25:50] development yet.
[25:51] >> Yeah. Yeah. He actually used like real
[25:52] Sega development hardware to make it and
[25:55] everything like he really did it the old
[25:56] school pretty hard mode way I would say
[25:59] especially given that there's just not a
[26:01] lot of people that do it these days but
[26:03] SGDK has definitely helped a lot. So
[26:05] >> yeah, even Randy Lyndon came back for
[26:07] Doom Super Nintendo and that was done
[26:09] with some of that dev environment on
[26:12] AmIgga. Uh so he went back u
[26:15] >> to do it the old school way. So you
[26:17] could still do that. Uh which yeah is
[26:20] also really impressive and cool.
[26:23] >> Well, it's fun to be able to go to those
[26:25] old development environments and
[26:27] probably use everything that you've
[26:28] learned since. You know, it's very much
[26:30] the the you know, if I knew then what I
[26:32] know now
[26:33] >> type scenario.
[26:34] >> Exactly. All right. Um next up, actually
[26:37] connecting back to our conversation from
[26:39] earlier about Maverick Hunter X. You
[26:41] know, are you insane? Well, somebody
[26:43] wasn't saying because they decided to
[26:44] make a new Mega Man X game without
[26:46] Capcom and it's called Gemini X and it
[26:48] was revealed this week and our good
[26:50] friend Sean Bo actually did the
[26:52] soundtrack for it. Y
[26:53] >> and uh I think this looks mostly really
[26:57] cool except for the run cycle
[27:00] like like I feel like he's he's like
[27:01] he's like bent over and he's like
[27:04] >> it's very uh it's very robotic in a way
[27:06] which I guess uh kind of makes sense but
[27:09] the rest of his movements are much more
[27:10] dynamic. So,
[27:11] >> compare compared to raw actual like Mega
[27:14] Man X games. I think the animation needs
[27:16] more det.
[27:20] But because everything else
[27:21] aesthetically looks freaking great. Like
[27:23] I love the visual design, of course, the
[27:25] music, you know, everything they're
[27:26] going for here. It's like about 90% of
[27:29] the way to what I want from like a
[27:31] spiritual uh Mega Man X follow-up,
[27:34] right?
[27:34] >> Yeah. Yeah. This looks pretty cool.
[27:36] >> Yeah. Uh Comey Games have been around
[27:38] for a while. plus Julian Spilani's
[27:40] company up in Toronto. Uh
[27:42] >> oh, cool.
[27:43] >> Hence why Jean Bo is attached to it.
[27:46] >> Uh I really uh I got to see this a while
[27:49] ago, but it's finally announced. Uh so
[27:51] you all should go wishlist it. Uh it's a
[27:53] little bit a ways out, so I think some
[27:55] of our concerns can probably be answered
[27:58] by the time it comes out. I think the
[28:00] main character is definitely the thing I
[28:02] would point out needing a little bit
[28:03] more work. Um, but it's an interesting
[28:05] concept of combining Metroid Vania with
[28:08] Mega Man X. Uh, you've kind of seen
[28:10] hints of it in actual Mega Man game,
[28:13] Mega Man X games in the past, right?
[28:15] >> But this one's kind of fully fulfilling
[28:18] that merge.
[28:19] >> So, uh, I'm interested in seeing where
[28:21] this game goes.
[28:22] >> Does visually look great. I love like
[28:24] the use of color and everything in it.
[28:26] >> Yeah.
[28:27] >> I'm looking at it on on Steam. I I I've
[28:29] literally just now wishlisted it on the
[28:31] steering
[28:33] >> and you should too.
[28:36] Looking good. Looking good. But there's
[28:38] one more topic before we get to the meat
[28:40] of the show. Uh this is one that I
[28:42] haven't gotten one to check out yet, but
[28:44] try, you've been looking at the Pixel
[28:45] Effects Morph 2K lately, and I think Bob
[28:49] put up something on this already from
[28:50] Retro RGB.
[28:51] >> Yeah. Um, and basically the pitch here
[28:56] is this is from Pixel FX. It's like a
[28:59] modern scaler that's for targeting
[29:01] 1080p, but it's sold at a much much
[29:04] lower price than the other, you know,
[29:06] scaler options out there right now,
[29:08] including the the bigger morph and of
[29:11] course the RetroTink 4K. So, as a budget
[29:14] option try, how do you feel about this?
[29:17] >> Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, I think
[29:19] ultimately a a product is only as good
[29:21] as its price, right? And when you see
[29:24] what the price is, which is uh $200,
[29:28] uh I think it makes a lot of sense
[29:30] because it does fit in neatly into a
[29:34] place that uh segment of the market
[29:37] that's not really served. uh because
[29:39] this is the lowest priced
[29:42] uh kind of uh scaler that's designed for
[29:46] gaming from the ground up that includes
[29:48] motion adaptive D interlacing. Um you
[29:52] know because if you go down to say the
[29:53] OSSC the original OSSC that's still like
[29:58] mid $100ish
[30:00] probably 130 to 150 160 depending on
[30:03] what model you buy. uh which is a
[30:06] fantastic option if you're not really
[30:07] playing any uh interlaced content. Uh I
[30:11] mean that that thing still looks so
[30:12] good. Every time I try it out again I'm
[30:14] like man I forgot how good this thing
[30:16] is. Um and then you know of course
[30:19] there's the Retro Tink 2X options. I I'm
[30:21] a big proponent of the 2x mini for
[30:24] people who just use composite or Svideo.
[30:26] Great option for people who just want to
[30:28] play an unmodified uh N64 for instance.
[30:31] Um, but then if you look at the um the
[30:34] other mid-range options, I mean, you
[30:36] know, let's make no mistake, the
[30:37] RetroTink 4K Pro is still the best of
[30:40] the best and the 4K CE is uh not too
[30:45] many steps down from that as well. Um,
[30:48] but if you look at say at the tier of
[30:50] product that the the Morph 2K is
[30:52] competing with, it's competing more with
[30:54] the OSSC Pro and the RetroTink 5X. Um,
[31:00] and those are both over $300 and this is
[31:04] $200. So
[31:05] >> 5X just got an update, too, so it's
[31:07] still supported.
[31:08] >> Oh, yeah. I mean, the 5X is a fantastic
[31:10] product. And to be honest, I I have not
[31:14] >> uh spent quite enough time with this yet
[31:16] to really assess like how close it is to
[31:21] the current state of the 5X. And to be
[31:24] honest, I've not spent enough time with
[31:25] the current firmware of the 5X to really
[31:28] assess because my myQi does go insane on
[31:32] keeping those things up to date. Um, but
[31:35] even if this doesn't end up quite
[31:37] matching the 5X, the fact of the matter
[31:39] is it's a whole lot cheaper and does
[31:42] probably most of what most people would
[31:46] want out of it. And I haven't really
[31:48] spent any time looking at like the CRT
[31:50] effects and stuff. You know, obviously
[31:52] at 1080p you're not going to be getting
[31:55] quite as high fidelity on that stuff,
[31:57] but it can still look good. Um, and I I
[32:00] think this can go up to 1200p and and
[32:02] maybe 1440p.
[32:04] I think it does 1440p as well. So, just
[32:07] like the 5X, the 5X does that as well.
[32:09] And I I believe the OSSC Pro does as
[32:12] well. Um, but you know, the OSSC Pro
[32:15] much more sort of specialist enthusiast
[32:18] device if you really want to kind of get
[32:19] into the nuts and bolts of the sampling
[32:22] and upscaling and uh it has its add-on
[32:25] boards and stuff like that.
[32:26] >> Well, that's the thing. The the uh the
[32:29] OSSC Pro is kind of becoming like the
[32:31] deacto downscaling Yeah. device.
[32:34] >> Yeah. And so this however from from what
[32:37] I've used of it, it's like shockingly
[32:40] simple. uh you know if you just want to
[32:42] like set it and go. I mean, you know, it
[32:45] just automatically
[32:47] samples correctly for uh you know, the
[32:51] system you've plugged into it. Uh you
[32:54] can hit the red button to do an autocrop
[32:56] that, you know, fills the screen larger.
[32:59] Um yeah, so uh I'll I'll make some
[33:02] comparisons for Corey, but I I think
[33:05] that price point is very powerful. um
[33:07] you know they they they clearly saw that
[33:10] okay here is a price point that is that
[33:14] market is not being met. You know it's
[33:15] kind of funny to think like we're you
[33:17] know
[33:18] >> people would have maybe turned their
[33:20] noses up at uh $200 upscaling a few
[33:23] years ago but now like uh original
[33:25] hardware retro gaming is starting to
[33:27] seem like the more affordable hobby
[33:29] compared to modern consoles and modern
[33:32] PC gaming. Uh, so yeah, I think it's
[33:35] it's just super cool to see um products,
[33:39] new electronics being able to be
[33:41] introduced at what feels like a very
[33:45] reasonable price. So, I I'm looking
[33:46] forward to putting more time into this.
[33:48] I want to do a video on my life and
[33:51] gaming that will be uh kind of looking
[33:54] at some of the other alternatives uh
[33:57] that that have come up uh in the
[33:59] intervene years since we've really kind
[34:01] of looked at some of the more mid-range
[34:03] stuff. Um so uh so yeah, I mean I I'm
[34:07] just I'm just really happy to see a
[34:09] product being offered at that price
[34:11] point. I think that's the most important
[34:13] thing. And from what I've tried so far,
[34:15] uh, it does it it's it does the job it
[34:18] needs to do, uh, for a $200 product and
[34:22] and then some, honestly. So, um, it's
[34:24] great. Really, really cool. All right,
[34:28] with that, we've cleared the news and
[34:30] it's time to move on to our historical
[34:33] E3 segment. So, get ready, grab yourself
[34:37] uh a snack, and pretend that we're about
[34:40] to have a the best press conference
[34:41] you've ever seen or not, but we're
[34:44] getting to it anyway. So, we'll be right
[34:46] back.
[34:58] early 95 uh there was a time where I
[35:01] subscribed to a magazine called
[35:02] Electronic Entertainment. It was E2
[35:05] Electronic Entertainment because it was
[35:08] those two words together. And it wasn't
[35:11] until shortly after that I started
[35:15] reading about something called E3 and I
[35:17] was like, wait, is this related to this
[35:19] magazine? Like what's going on? But no,
[35:21] it's an event. And uh even way back in
[35:25] the middle of 1995
[35:28] via the power of magazines,
[35:31] I was reading up on the things that were
[35:34] happening at E3 because E3 was the big
[35:37] show for video games. It ran from 1995
[35:41] until I guess roughly 20
[35:45] 21ish. like was it there was like an
[35:48] online version at one point I think
[35:50] during the pandemic
[35:53] >> but either way it has died off. I would
[35:55] say the final E3 was 2019. That was
[35:58] >> I mean that was the final real one.
[36:00] Yeah,
[36:00] >> right. Yeah. Which we were at.
[36:02] >> Yeah. We were at the tail end.
[36:06] >> Exactly. But before we talk about about
[36:08] that stuff and our experiences and
[36:10] different impressions and memories of
[36:12] E3, it is worth mentioning quickly like
[36:15] where it came from, right? Because
[36:17] before E3 1995, there was CES. There
[36:21] still is CES today, the Consumer
[36:23] Electronics Show. This is where
[36:24] companies around the world come to show
[36:26] off the latest electronics, gadgets, and
[36:28] now like everything AI powered because
[36:30] why not?
[36:32] >> Uh there's a lot of that happening. But
[36:34] back in the early 90s, this was kind of
[36:36] like the one of the only places where
[36:38] Nintendo and Sega and other game
[36:41] companies could really show off their
[36:43] new wares. But from what we understand,
[36:46] they didn't feel that they were being
[36:48] treated well. Often relegated to like
[36:50] outside areas, tents, you know,
[36:52] basically spots within the convention
[36:55] that were less than optimal compared to
[36:57] what everybody else was getting.
[36:59] >> Video games weren't cool.
[37:01] >> No, exactly. I think Sega even ran its
[37:03] own show a couple years somewhere in
[37:06] there. And it just it wasn't like there
[37:09] was no real American or English-speaking
[37:12] game show uh that was targeting um you
[37:16] know fans of of video games, right? I I
[37:19] don't know. Tokyo game show might have
[37:21] already been happening. Yeah, that was
[37:23] definitely that was
[37:24] >> there was there was definitely shows in
[37:26] Japan happening in the 80s 90s but
[37:29] elsewhere not so much.
[37:31] >> Uh but from what I understand one of the
[37:34] guys from GamePro, I think Pat Frell,
[37:38] uh who was part of the IDG group, which
[37:42] also might have been the group that
[37:43] published the electronic entertainment
[37:46] magazine.
[37:47] Um if I maybe not I what I can't. Yeah,
[37:51] it was IDG. It was IDG. So there's
[37:54] actually weirdly enough a relationship
[37:55] there directly.
[37:57] And those guys basically worked together
[38:00] to start the show. And this happened in
[38:02] 95 when CES was actually going to run a
[38:06] second show in Chicago in the summer.
[38:08] And they were kind of like giving
[38:10] publishers a choice like do you want to
[38:12] come to CES or do you want to come to
[38:13] E3? And eventually, I guess for whatever
[38:16] reason, uh the guys in charge of CES
[38:19] gave it up because Nintendo and other
[38:22] companies were going to go with CES
[38:24] while Sega and others were were going
[38:27] with E3. So, it was split. But when CES
[38:30] canled that show, everybody went ahead
[38:32] and invested money and effort into E3.
[38:35] And we got E3 1995, which happened at
[38:38] the LA Convention Center during its
[38:40] first year. And E3 1995, I think we can
[38:44] all agree, was a pretty huge one. I at
[38:47] the time I only read about this stuff in
[38:48] magazines. We've since seen a lot of
[38:50] footage,
[38:51] >> but this was the year where Sony and
[38:55] Sega basically brought their next
[38:57] generation consoles to the table in
[38:58] North America. They'd already launched
[39:00] in Japan back in '94, right? But Sega
[39:03] came to the show and launched the
[39:05] Saturn, right? This is that famous
[39:07] incident where yeah, Tom Kolinsky got up
[39:09] and said, "Hey, the Saturn's out right
[39:11] now."
[39:12] >> And um
[39:14] it didn't go well. Needless to say, they
[39:16] did not supply all their partners with
[39:18] it with enough units and there wasn't
[39:20] enough software at launch. It was
[39:22] considered a big mistake and I think it
[39:23] was sold for $399. And then famously,
[39:26] Sony comes to their press conference.
[39:28] They got Steve Race up there talking
[39:30] about it. He just gets up to the mic and
[39:31] says $299. Yeah,
[39:32] >> that's the price. And then mic drop,
[39:35] right? and that the rest is history.
[39:37] >> But there's so much more that happened
[39:39] at E3 beyond that, including a lot of
[39:41] Atari Jaguar stuff,
[39:44] >> but also like 32X and like basically
[39:47] everything you could imagine I would say
[39:50] like from video games at this time and
[39:51] it was a crazy time was happening at
[39:53] this show. So obviously I mean Nintendo
[39:57] was just bringing their wares, right?
[39:59] Like Killer Instinct Super NES, there's
[40:00] Donkey Kong Country 2. I think Secret of
[40:03] Evermore was there from Square. Uh
[40:06] Earthbound I think was represented a
[40:08] bunch of Game Boy games. You know, they
[40:09] had their their their wares and I think
[40:11] there may have been some teasing of what
[40:13] they wanted to do with Ultra 64,
[40:15] >> but this was not yet the year of that.
[40:18] Um meanwhile, I know Jaguar was there in
[40:21] a big way. I think Audi, you've you've
[40:25] probably seen a lot of this footage, but
[40:27] there is like hours of footage out there
[40:28] of like everything Jaguar, right?
[40:31] >> Yeah. It's kind of interesting to see
[40:32] just how much because when did that even
[40:35] I think it had been out on the market
[40:36] for a bit, but it was kind of like a
[40:38] second wind for them, right?
[40:40] >> Yeah. Late 93 maybe when it came out.
[40:44] >> So this is kind of like the last bastion
[40:46] of Atari trying to get this thing across
[40:48] and what a year to do it because you
[40:49] have all these like you have 3Dio still
[40:52] there as well, but you have like
[40:53] PlayStation Saturn right around the wing
[40:56] and it's just like there there's just no
[40:58] hope for it. It's It's like watching
[41:00] like, you know, Glendale Archives but in
[41:04] video game form when you see like the
[41:06] Jaguar floor at E3. Uh it's just very
[41:09] eerie and kind of sad. Uh but it's also
[41:12] very fittingly Jaguar. I wouldn't want
[41:14] it any other way. Um
[41:16] >> do the math. Do the math.
[41:19] >> Yeah, I did the math. It's zero.
[41:22] So stubber.
[41:26] >> Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I think that would
[41:28] have been the year there was a fair
[41:30] number of games shown there that never
[41:33] came out, including like I think that's
[41:35] where Rayman 32X was spotted at one
[41:38] point.
[41:39] >> Um
[41:40] >> Oh, was that where what was the one
[41:42] there was a like Thea Realm Fighters?
[41:45] Yeah.
[41:46] >> For Jaguar. Was that shown there?
[41:47] Because I feel like there was prototypes
[41:49] of stuff that that never came out that
[41:51] were shown at the show as well.
[41:52] >> So the prototypes are now out. Uh thanks
[41:55] to Nick, our friend. uh who's always at
[41:57] JagFest. So, there's two prototypes of
[42:00] the realm fighters. For those who aren't
[42:01] aware of it, it is basically a digitized
[42:05] fighter with the original cast from
[42:06] Mortal Kombat 1 and two or some of them
[42:10] uh like Pacina and Hung and those guys.
[42:14] So, uh that was shown off there. Uh and
[42:17] based on the prototype we do have, I
[42:20] don't think it would have lit the Jaguar
[42:22] world on fire. Uh but um nonetheless,
[42:26] >> maybe in the negative negative sense.
[42:28] >> Yeah, maybe. Uh for the Jaguar is an
[42:31] interesting and somewhat technically
[42:34] uh goodlooking game. Uh but nonetheless,
[42:37] it was not what people wanted. Uh well,
[42:40] they didn't want a Jaguar, so I guess
[42:41] that's kind of the issue at hand to
[42:44] begin with. So,
[42:46] but that was shown off there. Another
[42:49] thing that was shown off audio and I
[42:51] don't know maybe you guys remember this
[42:52] but uh this was the year that Williams
[42:55] Entertainment and I guess Midway kind of
[42:57] like started to create their own ports
[43:00] and publish their own games including
[43:02] Mortal Kombat 3 for PlayStation which
[43:05] was not done by a claim, right?
[43:07] >> But at E3 that year they had multiple
[43:10] stage shows where they actually had
[43:12] performers come out on the stage
[43:15] representing they had Mortal Kombat
[43:17] characters. They had I think Doom
[43:20] >> Yep.
[43:20] >> related stuff happening. Wow.
[43:22] >> It was like a a whole event, right? And
[43:24] it's just it's hilarious. They're just
[43:26] like, "Oh, Mortal Kombat 3." And then
[43:28] this like stone door opens up and like
[43:31] uh they like should run out and it's
[43:33] like uh Liu Kang uh Jax and maybe Sony
[43:37] Blade.
[43:37] >> Sonia. Yeah, I think it's I think it is
[43:39] Carrie Hoskins actually.
[43:42] >> Oh, it's actually her. Okay. I think so
[43:43] because this was uh around the time
[43:45] where the MK live tour or live show was
[43:48] going on with them. I think it's the
[43:50] same actors that's on that live show at
[43:52] E3.
[43:53] >> Oh,
[43:53] >> so it's kind of like an extension of
[43:55] >> what they were doing there. It's on
[43:57] YouTube where you can see like they did
[43:58] a TV presentation on it and
[44:00] >> it's it's very hokey but also fantastic.
[44:04] >> Yeah. You know, it's it's interesting to
[44:05] me to think about, you know, having all
[44:07] that kind of show pizzazz going on and
[44:11] bringing in these people to perform and
[44:14] stuff when ultimately this is, you know,
[44:16] before the era of people being able to
[44:18] watch this stuff live. You know, they're
[44:20] they're mostly uh for journalists,
[44:23] right? So, like who are they really
[44:26] benefiting from all the money
[44:28] >> spent on this stuff at this time? I'm
[44:30] just curious.
[44:31] >> Not correct, Try.
[44:32] >> Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know.
[44:33] That's why I'm asking. I'm curious like
[44:35] what what was the benefit?
[44:38] >> The I would say the main purpose of the
[44:40] show back then was actually for retail
[44:43] and like sellers and other customers,
[44:45] right? It was like a direct
[44:47] communication line to everybody that
[44:49] would be purchasing the products for
[44:50] their stores and stocking this stuff.
[44:52] Right. Exactly. Yes. Journal journalists
[44:54] were there, but it was a trade show
[44:56] first and foremost. And these guys were
[44:58] there to be like, "Hey, Sears or
[45:01] Walmart,
[45:03] buy our buy our stuff. It's the best."
[45:05] You know, and so they put on big flashy
[45:07] shows for that. Right. I see.
[45:09] >> You can actually trace that.
[45:11] >> You can trace that sort of back to the
[45:13] American film market uh shows that were
[45:16] going on, which has been going on since
[45:18] the 70s, I think. And because you have a
[45:21] lot of international investors as well
[45:22] as wholesalers and such and it is kind
[45:26] of part of like they're coming from
[45:27] overseas with a lot of money and a lot
[45:30] of customers and they're seeing the
[45:32] great big American spectacle and that's
[45:35] kind of where and you American film
[45:37] market did that exact same thing for a
[45:40] lot like Canon films and all those kind
[45:42] of companies you've heard of of like the
[45:44] be movie genre. A lot of them would do
[45:46] the same for movies. So E3 was just kind
[45:50] of like an extension of that and that's
[45:52] kind of why you're having the BOF babes
[45:55] eventually. I think Boo Babes was even a
[45:57] thing by this point.
[45:58] >> Well, they were at CES.
[45:59] >> They were at CS. They were in, you know,
[46:02] cosplayers and stuff were in Tokyo uh in
[46:04] the mid 80s when the arcade uh trade
[46:07] shows were going on. So it's not a new
[46:09] concept or anything, but that that is
[46:11] kind of prevalent uh through all of the
[46:14] markets, not just video games.
[46:16] >> Yeah. So just you're just woo in the
[46:18] retailers.
[46:19] >> Yeah,
[46:20] >> exactly.
[46:21] >> And that so
[46:22] >> And it worked. It worked.
[46:24] >> Yeah, it absolutely did work. And
[46:26] that's, you know, that's kind of how it
[46:27] started off.
[46:28] >> Was this the same show where Killer
[46:30] Instinct had like their stage show with
[46:33] the dancers and stuff?
[46:34] >> That's possible because I know Killer
[46:36] Instinct was a big Super NES title that
[46:38] year,
[46:39] >> right?
[46:40] >> So
[46:40] >> that's on YouTube as well.
[46:42] >> Yeah, there's there's a lot of stuff out
[46:44] there thankfully. Some other things that
[46:46] happened that that event um the virtual
[46:48] boy was shown off again.
[46:50] >> Yeah.
[46:51] >> Um was it out yet? I can't remember when
[46:53] that actually launched.
[46:55] >> I think it was the summer.
[46:57] >> So this this would have been
[46:59] >> kind of like the last
[46:59] >> Okay. This would have been Nintendo's
[47:01] like major like push to launch this new
[47:04] system, right? They they did tease Ultra
[47:07] 64 at the show, but Virtual Boy was like
[47:09] their new machine. And I guess this
[47:10] would have been the show to have it at.
[47:13] And that's also something where I guess
[47:14] they would need to convince retailers to
[47:16] go for it. So having hands-on demo units
[47:18] of this thing was really important, but
[47:21] it was there. Uh Sony showed off stuff
[47:23] like Ridgeraer. I think Toshinden was
[47:26] there. Uh NBA Jam TE was in there. Few
[47:30] other games like that. And it I think it
[47:33] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sony made a big splash
[47:36] there. Uh, Sega of course had stuff like
[47:38] Panzer Dragoon on display, Virtue of
[47:41] Fighter, other games like that. I think
[47:44] I think Resident Evil was at least
[47:47] mentioned as in like this is something
[47:50] like in Capcom's like lineup coming at
[47:53] some point, but I don't think it was
[47:55] shown yet.
[47:57] And I think uh even stuff like Turo was
[47:59] shown or at least referenced as like
[48:01] this is a thing that's in development
[48:03] for the future because this wasn't the
[48:05] first year did did not focus on N64 yet
[48:09] because uh and let let's let's look at
[48:12] this. Let's kind of break this up. I
[48:14] want to look at first at E395 through
[48:16] 2000 and this kind of period and then
[48:19] we'll do like you know 2001 on to like
[48:21] 2005ish and then the period after that
[48:24] kind of
[48:25] >> before even going into that did you all
[48:27] discover this through magazines or like
[48:30] were you all aware of this in 95? Oh, it
[48:32] was definitely uh you know, I didn't
[48:34] know about E3 in 95, I guess, but you
[48:37] know, I because CES was still kind of a
[48:40] thing at that point
[48:41] >> because
[48:42] >> at least there was the two two a year at
[48:44] that point.
[48:44] >> I definitely had heard some news that
[48:46] must have surely come out of E3, but I
[48:49] was only, you know, I had only just
[48:52] gotten a Super Nintendo for Christmas
[48:54] 94. And before that, I only had NES and
[48:57] Game Boy, so I didn't have like the most
[48:59] current hottest stuff. Uh, and so I
[49:02] wasn't really following new games until
[49:05] pretty much this year actually. Like I
[49:08] was like, this was the year that I was
[49:09] starting to be like, I am looking
[49:11] forward to what's coming next. But I
[49:13] missed E3. I wasn't really reading G
[49:17] game magazines regularly yet. I didn't
[49:19] have any subscriptions. I actually, you
[49:21] know, I know this is after the good era
[49:24] of Nintendo Power, but I got a Nintendo
[49:25] Power subscription toward the end of 96.
[49:28] So the first time I was really aware of
[49:31] E3 would have been 97 where they were
[49:33] actually in Atlanta for two years. So I
[49:36] was under this impression for a number
[49:38] of years that oh this is a show in
[49:40] Atlanta. This is on the East Coast. Like
[49:42] this seemed kind of accessible to me.
[49:45] Like I kind of wanted to see if I could
[49:47] go. Um but then it was years later I
[49:50] realized like oh they was only there for
[49:52] two years. It's interesting when you say
[49:54] accessible because that was going to be
[49:56] kind of like the little thing I was
[49:58] going to share here was like for me I
[50:00] did discover this as it was, you know,
[50:02] in the magazines in 95 because I had EGM
[50:05] at GamePro. I subscribed to them and
[50:08] I've talked about it before on the show
[50:09] that like that kind of opened my eyes to
[50:11] so much stuff in the US that I just
[50:13] couldn't even dream of having because it
[50:15] was never released here and [ __ ] like
[50:16] this. But for me, I had grown up with
[50:20] the games market in Leipig. I never
[50:22] went, but in Germany there used to be
[50:24] like this big games market for
[50:26] Commodore, Amigga, PC games, some
[50:30] console as well, but that was kind of
[50:31] like a big show that was always noted in
[50:33] Commodore format and stuff like that.
[50:35] Uh, and that seemed super accessible to
[50:38] me. So, I was like, well, one day I can
[50:40] go see new Commodore games, I'm sure, in
[50:42] person. And then, you know, uh, they
[50:44] didn't last long enough for that. Uh, I
[50:47] did go to the Leipig show eventually,
[50:48] but not uh, in that era. But for me, the
[50:52] idea of even going to E3, especially as
[50:55] it grew from 95 and upwards to what
[50:57] we're going to talk about, that seemed
[50:59] complete inaccessible. And I, you know,
[51:02] I only dreamt of going, uh, especially
[51:05] as they started like live streaming them
[51:07] and whatnot. So, uh, it's interesting
[51:10] that you say that felt accessible
[51:12] because for a European like myself, it
[51:14] was completely inaccessible. Well, and
[51:16] there were ways to get like um uh some
[51:20] sort of like underage like press badge
[51:24] or something like that because I I wrote
[51:26] for a a website uh you know in my
[51:29] teenage years back then. Uh it was N64
[51:32] Code Palace and then later Techno
[51:34] Gaming. No one has ever heard of them.
[51:37] Uh but uh the the uh the guy that ran
[51:41] that site, he was actually a year or two
[51:44] younger than me, I think. I think a year
[51:45] younger than me and he did go to E3 a
[51:48] few years actually made some connections
[51:49] like he had like um uh connections with
[51:53] Ubisoft and stuff like that that he
[51:55] built up going to E3 just as like a
[51:57] 13-year-old kid and um we were actually
[52:01] able to get like we were obviously very
[52:03] very very low on their list but we did
[52:05] get like review copies of like PS1 and
[52:08] N64 and Dreamcast games and stuff. Uh so
[52:12] uh that was something that you were even
[52:15] even someone who's like a kid running a
[52:18] fan site uh in those days could actually
[52:21] get into E3. Um but I I think shortly
[52:25] after he went to those shows they you
[52:28] know it no one under I don't remember
[52:30] what the age was but uh I think you had
[52:33] to be like 18 or older or something to
[52:34] get in. Maybe 16 or older. I'm not sure
[52:37] but yeah it kind of became inaccessible
[52:40] for teenagers uh for for a time there.
[52:43] though.
[52:45] >> Indeed. Indeed. And actually I think
[52:47] about E3 like this period from 95 to
[52:50] maybe 98 those first three or four years
[52:53] whatever that was the year where E3 for
[52:56] me was viewed through magazines
[52:58] exclusively completely.
[52:59] >> And then once we got to 1999 I believe
[53:02] that's when we started to actually be
[53:04] able to experience it in video to a very
[53:07] limited degree. Well, I remember even 90
[53:11] at the very least 98 if not 97. I
[53:14] remember I distinctly remember uh
[53:18] downloading videos of like Ocarina of
[53:20] Time because I I I will never forget
[53:23] that like I get this downloading I go
[53:26] mow I go mow the lawn and it is still
[53:30] downloading and it's you know this tiny
[53:32] crappy quality video but you know
[53:35] uh modems back then at least what we had
[53:39] uh man it took it took so long to
[53:42] download those videos. Uh, but I
[53:45] remember watching the like just this
[53:47] tiny little crappy video of the forest
[53:49] temple and other Ocarina of Times
[53:51] videos. So, it had to have been at least
[53:53] 97 or 98 with some some video uploads to
[53:57] I don't know IGN64 and stuff like that
[54:00] probably.
[54:01] >> Actually, now that you mention it, they
[54:03] first showed it in like December 95 at
[54:06] Shina Kai, right? And I actually have
[54:08] these vague memories of seeing very
[54:11] early like there's very simple videos of
[54:14] it running when I was still in grade
[54:16] school because I watched it in the
[54:18] underground library at the grade school.
[54:20] This would have been 95 or early 96. So
[54:24] I guess there was there were ways to get
[54:27] some very limited videos. I think
[54:30] sometimes it actually came from like
[54:31] magazine discs as well.
[54:33] >> Yeah, I was gonna say PlayStation demo
[54:36] discs here. Some the thing about it
[54:38] though because we're going over now this
[54:39] stuff, but it's like at that time those
[54:42] clips were not highlighted so much as
[54:44] like an E3 thing. It was much more just
[54:46] like you're talking about like Arena
[54:48] Time and whatnot. It was just like
[54:49] people were s like trying to source
[54:51] that. I think when E3 became more like
[54:55] it's E3 time and now you can download
[54:57] and check out the stuff as an event was
[55:01] 98. Uh that's at least how I remember
[55:04] it.
[55:05] >> Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty sure this stuff
[55:06] was going on like concurrent when I was
[55:09] downloading that those videos, but it
[55:10] could have also been stuff from Spacew
[55:12] World. I mean, you know, I I'm not 100%
[55:16] positive, but but I do know that
[55:18] certainly before at least before Ocarina
[55:21] of Time came out, which would have been
[55:22] late 98, that, you know, I was very much
[55:25] involved with like seeking out uh videos
[55:28] of games I was excited about that were
[55:30] shown at these shows, whether it was E3
[55:32] or Tokyo Game Show or Spacew World,
[55:35] whatever. Oh, one other thing I didn't
[55:37] mention that was shown at E3 1995, and I
[55:39] did see this in the magazine was the
[55:41] Panasonic M2.
[55:43] >> Yeah, I note the M2 when I mentioned
[55:46] >> they were they this just shows how much
[55:48] stuff was at the first E3.
[55:51] >> And I remember specifically the
[55:52] screenshot in the magazine that I read
[55:55] showed it was like a cow standing next
[55:58] to a fence and they were showing off
[55:59] bilinear filtering by showing them
[56:02] standing next to the fence. In one shot
[56:04] it was super pixelated and the other it
[56:05] was super smooth. They're like this is
[56:07] what bilinear filtering can do. And I
[56:09] was like, "Huh?"
[56:10] >> I remember m Edge had like a huge roll
[56:13] out of information on the M2 and I was
[56:15] so I was so into D from Kenji that I was
[56:18] I was hyped for it
[56:20] >> which was also shown at E3.
[56:22] >> I think like video game esoterica
[56:25] I think he has like those demos like he
[56:29] actually physically has
[56:30] >> Okay.
[56:31] >> He has them. So, and maybe one day when
[56:34] we do like an episode about this, we can
[56:36] invite him on.
[56:37] >> So, yeah, E395 came and went. 96 was
[56:41] also in LA. And this was another big
[56:44] year. And again, I lived this mostly
[56:46] through magazines and some of them I
[56:47] very specifically remembered. One of the
[56:50] biggest pieces of news to come out of
[56:51] this show for me. This is the year that
[56:54] Unreal and Unreal Engine made its debut.
[56:57] Like Unreal Engine is so prevalent
[56:59] today, but it was E396
[57:01] where Epic first showed this off and
[57:04] unveiled like their next generation 3D
[57:06] engine. And this was at a time in the
[57:09] world where ID was about to launch
[57:11] Quake, Duke Nukem 3D was hitting. We
[57:13] knew about 3D Realms Prey. like this was
[57:16] like the the period where tons of
[57:18] first-person shooters and like 3D
[57:20] engines were all starting to take off in
[57:22] Epic of Jazz Jackra Rabbit fame and they
[57:24] threw their hat into the ring as well.
[57:27] That was a really big deal and I I
[57:29] specifically remember then that would
[57:30] dominate magazine covers off and on over
[57:33] the next few years where it' be like yes
[57:35] this is a screenshot and stuff like
[57:37] this. Uh it was it was crazy. It's
[57:40] called Unreal because it is. Um 96 also
[57:43] saw the the reveal the full reveal of
[57:46] Tomb Raider. Uh Starcraft was premiered.
[57:50] You know, Warcraft 2 was a huge deal at
[57:52] this time and I guess Diablo was either
[57:54] out or just about out. So Starcraft was
[57:57] their next big strategy game. We knew
[57:59] how big that would become. Uh this is
[58:01] also the year where um
[58:04] Naughty Dog unveiled Crash Bandicoot.
[58:07] You know, developers of Way of the
[58:08] Warrior 3. they came out with their very
[58:10] first as they called it like Sonic Sonic
[58:14] ass game or something where it's like
[58:16] where it was a 3D platformer where you
[58:18] run into the screen but this was also
[58:20] the year where we saw Super Mario 64
[58:22] right so Nintendo really brought the N64
[58:25] but this is like where 3D platform games
[58:29] really started to flourish this is where
[58:31] we really saw what developers who had
[58:32] been trying to figure it out finally
[58:34] started to unveil like obviously Naughty
[58:36] Dog was like hey what if we do a 2D
[58:38] style game but like you move into the
[58:40] camera. Nintendo went full open world
[58:42] with it. And I think this is the show
[58:44] famously where the guys at Idic that
[58:46] were making Bubsy
[58:47] >> 3D saw Mario and were like, "Oh, we're
[58:51] screwed."
[58:51] >> Yeah. I mean, poor poor guys, right? Cuz
[58:54] like
[58:55] >> you could totally get it cuz I I think
[58:58] if you go back and play Bubs 3D, it's
[59:00] never going to be a great game or
[59:01] anything, but it is interesting
[59:03] technically and they were trying to
[59:05] figure out something that everyone else
[59:06] was trying to figure out at the same
[59:08] time. Exactly.
[59:09] >> And then but then they saw Mario and
[59:10] it's just like we didn't figure this out
[59:13] and
[59:13] >> I mean Nintendo figured it out harder
[59:15] than anyone else for sure. But Crash is
[59:18] still good and
[59:19] >> much bigger budget. But
[59:22] >> and Tomb Raider does its own thing. You
[59:24] know, I I actually appreciate that all
[59:26] these games from this era were doing
[59:28] things differently. But yeah, obviously
[59:31] Nintendo's take became the template. I
[59:33] mean, Tomb Raider to me was like that's
[59:35] why I remember the most uh because to me
[59:38] that was I think I mentioned this before
[59:40] like
[59:40] >> it it was the natural evolution of like
[59:43] Flashback and the cinematic platformer
[59:47] which
[59:48] >> or cinematic action games, whatever you
[59:50] want to call them. And so I was super
[59:52] excited. I don't think I was as excited
[59:55] when I finally played it because I found
[59:56] it a little bit too puzzle heavy.
[59:58] >> Oh, I love it. But I mean, at the time I
[60:01] played it, I was just not in the mood
[60:04] for it. But now I really appreciate
[60:05] them.
[60:06] >> Yeah. I mean, it holds up today because
[60:09] developers didn't use Tomb Raider as the
[60:11] template going forward, right? And so it
[60:13] holds up just by virtue of there not
[60:15] really being anything like it. And they
[60:17] really did do it. I I think they did the
[60:21] game that they were trying to make. They
[60:22] did it correctly from the get-go. It's
[60:24] just that it's just that other
[60:26] developers didn't really copy it like
[60:28] they copied Mario 64 deep.
[60:30] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[60:32] >> But still, it was it was a very
[60:34] important game, right? And
[60:36] >> that's kind of the theme of E396 I'm
[60:38] finding is like this was like the year
[60:40] where like big things were happening.
[60:41] This was also when Capcom finally demoed
[60:44] Resident Evil again going to become a
[60:47] huge game. Uh less huge, but they showed
[60:49] off Star Gladiator, which was their
[60:52] first fighting game. Yeah, number one. I
[60:55] mean not
[60:56] >> Billstein or Billstein's nightmare or
[60:58] whatever. Nightmare of Billstein, the
[61:00] sequel.
[61:01] >> That's the second one. I think the first
[61:02] one is like Star Gladiator the final
[61:04] battle.
[61:05] >> Straight up won the final battle. Yeah.
[61:07] So, they were already big plans. That
[61:11] plays great though. And I actually do
[61:12] like the whole universe of
[61:15] Stargladiator. I bought that the day
[61:17] came out.
[61:18] >> So, yeah.
[61:19] >> Um, but yeah. It's also worth
[61:22] mentioning, I haven't mentioned Sega
[61:23] yet. Sega actually came out strong in
[61:25] 96. I mean, they had a bunch of stuff
[61:27] coming. I mean, they had um the big the
[61:30] big ones they showed at this show was
[61:31] Nights into Dreams and uh Sonic Extreme.
[61:35] Knights, of course, like they had like a
[61:37] full like uh Knights character and like
[61:39] the rings hanging from the ceiling of
[61:41] the convention floor and like lots of
[61:43] demo stations there and it was like,
[61:45] "Hey, here's the next game from the
[61:47] creators of Sonic the Hedgehog." That's
[61:49] kind of a big deal, right? Uh,
[61:51] meanwhile, Sonic Extreme, as we would
[61:53] find out, was not from them, and that
[61:56] was a whole different thing, but it was
[61:58] playable at the show floor. And I
[62:00] specifically remember reading about that
[62:02] in magazines and thinking like seeing
[62:04] those screenshots and like, whoa, like
[62:06] this is the Saturn's pretty capable,
[62:09] >> right? Like this is great.
[62:11] >> I remember being super hyped for it. And
[62:13] didn't, correct me if I'm wrong, John,
[62:15] but didn't like that, maybe not that
[62:17] demo, but one of the Sonic Extreme
[62:19] prototypes was based on like the boss
[62:22] battle engine for Knights and got them
[62:25] in trouble internally with Sega.
[62:27] >> Yeah, it sure did. Uh, Eugene Naka like
[62:29] lost his [ __ ] because he was insane from
[62:32] as we understand now. Um, but
[62:36] >> you still he can still find you.
[62:40] Now, what I will tell you this though,
[62:42] um, when Electronic Arts was showing off
[62:45] Road Rash, they showed off the nextG,
[62:48] like the Saturn and PlayStation versions
[62:50] at that E3. And in some of the footage I
[62:52] was watching for this again, do you know
[62:54] what they're displaying it on?
[62:56] NEC XM29s, the exact freaking monitor
[63:00] that I have and is broken and has been
[63:02] broken for a year, the the my favorite
[63:05] screen, and it's down. And I'm like,
[63:07] "Wait a minute. They're using XM29s
[63:09] there at the show floor and there's a
[63:11] bunch of them." And I'm just like,
[63:14] >> all destroyed.
[63:15] >> They're all destroyed, I'm sure, like in
[63:17] a landfill or like long gone. And that
[63:20] just makes me sad. But it shows that
[63:22] they had really good taste. I'm sure
[63:24] they chose them because like the Sony
[63:26] PVMs of the era, they were like cube-
[63:28] shaped and stackable and like, you know,
[63:30] really designed for shows like this, so
[63:32] >> it made sense.
[63:34] >> But damn.
[63:35] So E39 E396 again the magazine years for
[63:39] me but looking back it was such a huge
[63:41] show. Um and E397 I think kind of
[63:45] continued that somewhat 98 right and
[63:47] this was a weird one. Try you mentioned
[63:49] they moved to Atlanta.
[63:51] >> Yeah.
[63:52] >> As far as I can tell this was just down
[63:54] to like scheduling issues with the LA CC
[63:57] where they couldn't actually get in
[63:59] there as they wanted to and they had to
[64:00] move to Atlanta
[64:02] >> instead. they just needed another place
[64:04] to go and that's where it went. So,
[64:07] um, but this was the year that we got so
[64:11] 97. Uh, the biggest one for me and I
[64:14] remember this on covers was HalfLife.
[64:18] >> So, this is the beginning at all.
[64:21] >> Uh, I read, of course, I read a lot of
[64:22] PC gaming.
[64:23] >> Yeah, I was going to say I think we read
[64:24] different magazines, man.
[64:27] >> And
[64:28] it was a huge cover story. This was like
[64:31] the beginning of Valve. They had an
[64:33] interview with Gabe Newell, who had quit
[64:35] Microsoft and went to start the studio
[64:37] using the Quake engine. And famously,
[64:40] everything that was shown at E3 that
[64:42] year would end up not shipping at all
[64:44] because, as they would do again with
[64:46] HalfLife 2,
[64:47] >> they built the whole game and then
[64:49] decided it wasn't good enough and they
[64:51] scrapped it and they started over and
[64:53] rebuilt the whole game.
[64:54] >> So everything showed at E397 was just
[64:57] like their first stab at Halflife. Uh,
[65:00] and that was all those original
[65:02] screenshots. It has like the scientists
[65:03] that look like insane like are you
[65:06] insane is
[65:08] and they were uh, but it was cool and
[65:11] that that was a big deal on PC gaming
[65:14] magazines. This was also when Unreal
[65:15] itself like Unreal the game was shown
[65:18] off in more detail. In both HalfLife and
[65:20] Unreal, there are demos from this period
[65:23] that have been leaked out there. So, you
[65:25] can actually see this stuff and play it
[65:27] on period appropriate hardware. And I
[65:29] think that itself is super cool. I did a
[65:31] DFO in Unreal last year and like dug
[65:33] into all those old prototypes. There's
[65:35] so many of them and you can absolutely
[65:38] recreate all the screenshots from the
[65:40] magazines of that era which is so cool.
[65:45] But um on the game side uh the game
[65:48] console side rather this was when we saw
[65:51] Metal Gear Solid unveiled. Do you guys
[65:54] remember that revealed? This I remember
[65:57] it vividly.
[65:59] >> See, I just remember this from
[66:00] magazines.
[66:01] >> Really?
[66:02] >> Uh, this I remember this was actually
[66:06] this specifically from E3 was shown uh I
[66:10] would like to say was shown on Sky like
[66:13] the the British Channel during like a
[66:16] tech show segment. I just remember that
[66:19] it was being shown on TV and they were
[66:22] showing off Metal Gear from the E3 and
[66:26] they had no reference or idea of it. It
[66:29] was just kind of like this is what's
[66:30] coming. This was like this is one of the
[66:32] games. It's very kind of bypassing. Uh,
[66:36] but I remember just kind of being like
[66:37] Metal Gears coming back and like it
[66:39] looked like they were kind of I remember
[66:42] seeing that it was like kind of overhead
[66:44] and you were still walking in these same
[66:46] patterns as um on the NES and MSX
[66:50] because at this point I'd play the MSX
[66:51] games thanks to Tom and I was just like,
[66:54] "Wow okay."
[66:55] >> See, that's interesting because I didn't
[66:57] know about Metal Gear. I had never
[66:59] played the NES game. I had no
[67:01] familiarity with it. I did know
[67:04] Snatcher, but I didn't like associate
[67:06] the two or anything. I was just like,
[67:07] "Oh, it's like this." I I feel like the
[67:10] trailer was on something like maybe a
[67:13] demo disc or like somewhere cuz I can
[67:16] still recall. It was like a CGI. Yeah,
[67:18] it was probably it was probably the
[67:20] magazine, but it was like
[67:21] >> a CGI style trailer, right? Within
[67:24] >> like magazine or something.
[67:27] >> Yeah, it must have been something like
[67:28] It must have been something like that
[67:30] cuz I I definitely saw the trailer and
[67:32] remember thinking that looked cool. And
[67:34] that that was right around the time when
[67:35] I was starting to pay attention to
[67:37] consoles again. Even though I was like
[67:39] hardcore and PC, I was like, "Uh, maybe
[67:41] I need one of these."
[67:43] >> I would get Saturn and then a
[67:44] PlayStation, but not an N64. Sorry, try.
[67:47] I didn't get one till many years later.
[67:50] I mean, I was I was aware of when Metal
[67:52] Gear Solid released because I bought
[67:54] that on day one and I had played the NES
[67:57] game and I had played Snatcher. I'd
[67:58] gotten Snatcher on day one. So, I was I
[68:01] was familiar with Cojima's game at that
[68:03] time, but I just I I guess I probably
[68:05] didn't know him by name.
[68:07] >> No, no one did, man. Like if someone
[68:10] said it like maybe like James Milky like
[68:13] the people in the industry knew but like
[68:16] >> like even for me who were playing like
[68:18] the Oasis translated MSX games I had no
[68:21] idea about that name
[68:23] >> right
[68:24] >> interesting this was also the era of
[68:27] edutainment edutainment and like CDROM
[68:30] still exploding. So like the the Pippen
[68:33] atmark was there which is uh the Bandai
[68:37] uh Apple sort of like collaboration that
[68:40] they did and I think there was just more
[68:42] like that sort of stuff there but of
[68:45] course PlayStation itself was here. I
[68:47] think uh Tekken 3 was shown off there.
[68:51] Um DVD ROM started to appear on the PC.
[68:56] This was the year when you could start
[68:57] to buy a drive for your PC that was DVD.
[69:01] And this was like really early. Like DVD
[69:04] was so super new at this point. Uh like
[69:08] it was like super cutting edge. Most
[69:10] people did not have a DVD player, let
[69:12] alone a DVD ROM drive. But there was all
[69:15] this talk about, hey, what if you had a
[69:17] DVD drive in your computer and you could
[69:19] like get better video or like, you know,
[69:21] stuff like that,
[69:22] >> more space and better video. And yeah, I
[69:25] mean, you started seeing articles about
[69:27] DVD in like the mid 90s. Like they were
[69:31] working at that tech for quite some
[69:32] time.
[69:33] >> Cory, didn't you get a DVD player like
[69:36] the first year they were?
[69:37] >> I got a DVD player in 1997.
[69:39] >> That's insane to me. That is so insane.
[69:42] >> Wow. Oh, it was like nothing at that.
[69:44] Like I didn't get it at that time, but I
[69:46] have friends that like were super into
[69:48] movie and video and like audio files and
[69:51] whatnot
[69:52] >> and like
[69:53] >> I just remember that and it wasn't until
[69:55] like PlayStation to
[69:58] >> that like it that market exploded, but
[70:00] like it did it was around. I remember
[70:03] that
[70:04] >> that all just came from working at
[70:05] Electronics Boutique and working with
[70:07] somebody who was way into this stuff,
[70:09] you know. He's also the person that
[70:10] talked me into getting a CD burner
[70:12] around that same time. And uh you know,
[70:15] he's like was all on the like the Voodoo
[70:17] like the dual uh
[70:19] >> SLIS and SLI. Yeah. He was just like all
[70:22] into that stuff.
[70:23] >> Four-way Sly Voodoo 5 9000.
[70:26] >> Exactly.
[70:27] >> It's just it's just funny because like I
[70:29] look at it now, it's like I mean he was
[70:31] he was a single guy lived alone. Like of
[70:33] course he's going to get in all this
[70:34] stuff, right? He had his his apartment.
[70:36] >> Pretty cool. It's pretty cool.
[70:37] >> Just doing it, you know? He was He was
[70:40] in his late 20s at the time. So,
[70:42] >> oh boy. For me, I my first DVD product
[70:45] was a DVD ROM drive for my computer in
[70:47] 99. And I got that along with the
[70:49] Eclipse 4.1 audio system,
[70:52] >> so I could like blast DVDs on my PC.
[70:56] >> And my next DVD player was the
[70:57] PlayStation 2.
[70:59] >> E397 also had Resident Evil 2. It had
[71:03] Blasto with Phil Hartman.
[71:05] >> It had parappa the rapper. Yeah, man.
[71:09] RIP. I love Steartman. He was he was the
[71:11] best.
[71:11] >> Amazing.
[71:13] >> I think Crash Bandicoot 2 was there. Um
[71:16] gosh, there was just kind of go on and
[71:19] on, but like needless to say, this was a
[71:21] big year. 3D Acceleration was taking
[71:22] off. Um it was just it was cool. it
[71:27] continued the trend and like all the
[71:28] stuff was really showing up in magazines
[71:30] and now it continued the next year where
[71:33] I think Symphony of the Night was also
[71:34] there but it wasn't necessarily
[71:36] considered a big deal at the time.
[71:38] >> It sure wasn't it wasn't
[71:39] >> it wasn't even a big deal after it came
[71:42] out either. Yeah, the one magazine
[71:44] notably said that it's it's not good
[71:46] because it's in 2D.
[71:47] >> Yep.
[71:48] >> You know, it's
[71:50] >> I played it quite early but I I loved it
[71:52] at the time but Yeah. Yeah. Same here.
[71:54] Um, so, oh man, I was looking at some
[71:58] footage. There's actually like a dude in
[71:59] a Rugrat suit walking around.
[72:01] >> Oh, no.
[72:02] >> Like in a diaper. I maybe he's not the
[72:05] Rugrats guy. Maybe he's just a attendee
[72:07] of E3.
[72:09] >> Could be. I guess the the the thing was
[72:12] there's tons of characters and just like
[72:14] like these like mascots walking around
[72:16] the show floor in all these shows, man.
[72:18] It's very funny. I mean, that's the I
[72:20] think that's the thing as we move into
[72:23] the 2000s now that we talking about what
[72:27] we've lost a little bit. The v variety
[72:30] of what was on these show floors was
[72:32] massively
[72:34] >> more diverse than anything you see today
[72:37] at like Summer GameFest and whatnot.
[72:39] >> And there's a lot to be said about that.
[72:43] >> And this is when they were like so many
[72:45] main franchises were being established.
[72:48] >> Yep. Like before we move there, let me
[72:50] like just let me just list some of the
[72:51] stuff that happened at E398, right? This
[72:53] is still Atlanta, last one in Atlanta.
[72:55] This is the year we got Zelda Ocarine of
[72:57] Time. Uh HalfLife near Final Demo shown,
[73:00] Metal Gear Solid, there Starcraft there,
[73:02] Gran Turismo, Spyro of the Dragon, Crash
[73:04] Bandicoot 3, Tekken, uh Duke Nukem
[73:08] Forever was announced and shown off. I
[73:11] mean, there was so much stuff happening
[73:12] that year. But then 1999 is the year
[73:15] when I actually remember starting to see
[73:18] more video. And this is when Dreamcast
[73:20] was already out in Japan and they they
[73:23] went big on showcasing it at E399. Uh I
[73:27] think Nintendo named that they had a
[73:28] successor known as Project Dolphin. Um
[73:33] the PlayStation 2 hype started at E399.
[73:37] They didn't have much to show, but it
[73:38] was like this was kind of like very
[73:41] early
[73:41] >> demo, right? I I don't think they
[73:44] actually showed any games yet because
[73:45] they had just announced they were doing
[73:47] it. There was a little bit of hype and
[73:48] then I think it wouldn't be until
[73:50] September at TGS where we'd actually
[73:52] start to really see games. But
[73:55] >> people were already talking about PS2.
[73:58] >> Seems to just recall that there was like
[73:59] a bullshot of Madden. That was like the
[74:02] first thing I ever saw on PS2.
[74:05] >> I actually remember this is an E3 memory
[74:07] uh the news broadcast when it was
[74:09] revealed when PlayStation 2 was
[74:11] revealed. I remember seeing the Gran
[74:12] Turismo 2000 footage running at 60 fps
[74:15] >> and with those reflections it like
[74:16] really caught my eye. I was like what
[74:18] the heck? This is insane.
[74:20] >> Uh so I was really really excited for
[74:22] that. In 1999
[74:24] >> that was I mean that I was all in on
[74:27] consoles again. I was super psyched for
[74:29] the Dreamcast paying attention to
[74:30] everything. Uh, Sega did go big at E3,
[74:34] but they also brought out like their
[74:35] like Sega Mobile Assault tour
[74:38] >> where they were like driving buses
[74:39] around the country showing off the
[74:40] Dreamcast, I think. Uh, I remember you
[74:43] could rent the Dreamcast at Hollywood
[74:45] Video, which I did.
[74:46] >> Uh, there was the they had a lot of
[74:49] kiosks at like Funco Lands and such
[74:51] where you could play games early. I
[74:53] mean, it was a it was a really big time
[74:55] and all of the stuff was kind of shown
[74:57] off at E3. Soulcalibur was there I guess
[75:01] as well that that would have been
[75:04] >> a big year like so this is like leading
[75:06] up to 2000 this aside from some clips
[75:09] here and there for me this was mostly
[75:11] like a magazine-based high school
[75:14] >> still was for me as well it was mostly
[75:16] magazines that I saw this stuff in. So a
[75:19] lot what I remember mostly from like the
[75:21] late 90s E3 like season was just a ton
[75:25] of bullshots. It was like so many games
[75:28] were doctorred up for the magazines and
[75:31] then you'd get the game later. It's like
[75:33] it doesn't look like that. At least Bubs
[75:36] like exactly like I remember it in the
[75:37] magazines.
[75:38] >> For me, this was definitely an era of
[75:42] reading online a lot. I mean, I had
[75:44] Nintendo Power was the only magazine I
[75:46] really had, but I would read about, you
[75:48] know, I I mostly went to IGN back in
[75:51] those days. Um, but I know that I was
[75:54] downloading lots of videos, looking at
[75:55] lots of articles and screenshots online
[75:57] during E3 because, um, I'm pretty sure
[76:00] it was the next year, uh, 2000. Um, or
[76:05] >> yes,
[76:05] >> well, was that when they showed the
[76:07] Gamecube like really unveiled it or?
[76:10] >> Uh, no. Um, that would have been
[76:13] actually
[76:15] I think at Shankai or Spacew World.
[76:18] >> Space World was the first time they
[76:19] showed that off. That was the first time
[76:20] they revealed it. So I don't think we
[76:22] would have seen it yet.
[76:24] >> Yeah. But I I know that in this era
[76:27] regardless I was very involved because I
[76:30] remember either 2000 or 2001 being
[76:34] extremely concerned about the fact that
[76:37] I was going to be at my grandma's house
[76:40] when a lot of this stuff was going to be
[76:42] shown off because my grandma never had a
[76:44] computer. Um, my dad had given me like a
[76:47] a a old laptop that his work wasn't
[76:50] using anymore. And I don't remember like
[76:52] the logistics of how I did this for the
[76:54] subscription, but like I like got
[76:57] internet through the laptop at my
[76:59] grandma's house somehow so I could like
[77:02] keep up with like all this like news
[77:05] that was happening around like early
[77:08] PS2, early GameCube reveals and stuff.
[77:11] Like this was all like 20201
[77:14] and I was like very engaged because I
[77:16] like could not imagine missing
[77:20] E3 like as these news drops were
[77:22] happening you know right around this you
[77:24] know turn of the century period like I
[77:27] was very engaged on the online aspect
[77:30] you know screenshot whether it was it
[77:32] wasn't just video I mean lots of
[77:34] screenshots and articles and stuff like
[77:36] I I was gobbling it all up. So, as we
[77:39] move into 2000, 2001, this is this is
[77:42] when I know for sure that I started to
[77:44] be able to watch video
[77:46] >> because I saw all the videos. Why
[77:49] >> is it because
[77:50] >> specifically? No, no, no, no, no. Uh,
[77:52] specifically, you know, you're thinking
[77:54] 2000 because I guarantee you you were
[77:56] downloading that Metal Gear Solid 2
[77:58] reveal,
[77:59] >> dude. That I I So, I very specific I was
[78:03] at my
[78:03] >> I was visiting my friend Eric's mom's
[78:07] apartment. We were sitting at her
[78:08] computer because she had better internet
[78:10] than us. And I specifically downloaded
[78:14] >> uh like anov like a small like quicktime
[78:16] movie of that trailer and we watched
[78:19] that Metal Gear Solid 2 trailer
[78:22] >> and just like
[78:23] >> like a hundred times probably
[78:24] >> could not believe what what was being
[78:26] shown. And that video was not showing it
[78:28] at 60 frames per second by the way. Uh,
[78:32] so like we were only getting like a
[78:34] small taste of it, but you could still
[78:36] see like the things that were going on
[78:38] in that were like unlike anything I'd
[78:40] ever seen. And I was like super in on
[78:42] Dreamcast but
[78:44] >> I was also like so bowled over by that
[78:46] that all the other
[78:49] >> uh less great showing of of PS2 games
[78:52] during that show kind of got brushed
[78:55] aside because you just see this and it's
[78:57] like, well, okay, this is like next
[78:59] generation here, right?
[79:02] And that was like I so distinctly
[79:04] remember the video clips from that era.
[79:08] And this is when I think also IGN a lot
[79:10] would upload tons of videos for things.
[79:13] >> Oh yeah.
[79:13] >> So I remember downloading so many videos
[79:15] from them.
[79:16] >> No streaming. No streaming. This is
[79:18] download baby.
[79:19] >> You download you.
[79:21] >> You downloaded those videos very
[79:24] >> and these videos were 320 by 240 if even
[79:27] the biggest.
[79:28] >> Yeah. that man that's
[79:29] >> 160 by 120.
[79:31] >> I just remember you could not
[79:32] necessarily stream but you could do like
[79:34] real player and put the address in so
[79:37] that like
[79:38] >> it could buffer. Um, yeah.
[79:40] >> And I just remember doing that and just
[79:43] like so I do remember that this is kind
[79:45] of the time too where I was absolutely
[79:48] hooked in in the middle of the night for
[79:50] me as things were happening at E3
[79:54] because they were able to kind of
[79:55] broadcast that news out more real time
[79:58] on real player.
[80:00] >> I don't know if that's the tagline but
[80:02] it should be.
[80:04] So
[80:05] >> yeah,
[80:06] >> that that was really really exciting
[80:08] times. And
[80:09] >> E3 2000 was also that was when Dreamcast
[80:13] was like, you know, already established
[80:15] and we saw like basically the next
[80:17] generation of games somewhere out in
[80:18] Japan, but like this is where stuff like
[80:21] Jet Grind Radio were shown. You know, I
[80:24] remember Skies of Arcadia, Grandia 2
[80:26] hype, just tons of other games just show
[80:29] showcasing. I think they were big on the
[80:32] online place stuff maybe and they were
[80:34] showing off. Uh I I can't I can't
[80:38] actually remember. I I just know that
[80:40] there was a lot of hype around that.
[80:42] This was also the year when we got
[80:45] another really nice demo of Halo, which
[80:48] I was very hyped for because this was
[80:50] actually pre Xbox. This was still when
[80:53] Halo was being developed for the PC. Um
[80:55] and
[80:56] >> Oh, no. For Mac, right?
[80:57] >> Well, no, it was Mac and PC, right?
[80:59] Okay.
[81:00] >> Not just Mac. It was It was obviously
[81:02] associated with Mac, but Bungie had
[81:03] already been making games for PC as
[81:05] well.
[81:06] >> And they were coming off of Myth, right?
[81:07] Was it Myth? Yeah,
[81:08] >> they did Myth 2, Soul Blighter, and then
[81:11] Halo was their next big project. And it
[81:14] had been shown a bit, and it was looking
[81:16] insane at the time, like all the physics
[81:18] stuff, the size of the world, like the
[81:20] bump mapping, the water effects,
[81:22] >> really, really impressive. But I it's
[81:25] interesting because this was also the E3
[81:27] where we started to hear rumblings about
[81:29] Xbox because Microsoft was at E3. They
[81:32] were at these E3 shows, but they were
[81:34] mostly just showing their PC software
[81:36] lineup, right? PC games. But Xbox was
[81:39] like starting to become a thing at this
[81:42] point. And there was rumors, there was
[81:43] also rumors about Game Boy Advance
[81:46] happening around this time, but nothing
[81:48] was actually shown. So it's like on the
[81:51] Nintendo side, try do you remember like
[81:54] at 2000 like there wasn't really
[81:56] anything concrete, but there was all
[81:58] this talk about like Nintendo's next
[82:00] wave of stuff is coming. Right.
[82:02] >> Right. Right. Right. I mean this was uh
[82:04] for N64. This was a super dead time. Uh
[82:07] and you know there there wasn't a lot of
[82:09] excitement around gameplay.
[82:11] >> Tony Hawk I think was shown off for N64
[82:15] >> maybe. But, you know, I mean, it wasn't
[82:18] >> it was something you could play on other
[82:19] systems. So, yeah, this was I mean, 2000
[82:22] just in terms of of releases, 2000
[82:25] >> uh 2001
[82:28] not the best years of the N64 for sure.
[82:31] Uh 2000 definitely better than 2001. I
[82:34] mean, 2001 was was a dire year waiting
[82:37] for the Gamecube, but yeah, you know,
[82:39] this was a period of where it's like,
[82:41] okay, we're very much looking forward to
[82:43] what is next from Nintendo.
[82:45] >> Dinosaur Planet at this one.
[82:47] >> No, not not yet. That would
[82:49] >> Okay.
[82:50] >> Oh, on N64. Actually,
[82:52] >> probably.
[82:55] Probably.
[82:55] >> I mean, yeah, that was
[82:56] >> I remember kind of looking at that and
[82:58] being like, I'm I'm excited for this.
[83:00] >> Yeah. I mean Yeah. I mean, there was I I
[83:04] don't remember specifically what would
[83:05] have been at E3 uh for N64 and this
[83:08] year. And I don't remember again
[83:10] specifically when we started more
[83:13] concretely seeing GameCube stuff like
[83:15] that uh you know that famous uh uh
[83:18] Ocarina of Time styled GameCube demo of
[83:23] Zelda. Uh right. I don't remember if
[83:26] that was that was probably Space World,
[83:28] I'm thinking.
[83:29] >> Um Right, right, right. But yeah. Yeah,
[83:32] this was for for Nintendo, but this was
[83:36] also when I was um finally like fully
[83:39] engaged with PlayStation. Uh you know, I
[83:42] was I was looking forward to, you know,
[83:45] the RPGs and stuff and like super
[83:47] excited about,
[83:49] >> you know, uh that kind of stuff as well.
[83:51] So I I was not just Nintendo by this
[83:55] point. So yeah,
[83:58] what's uh interesting though is um this
[84:02] would have also been so looking at some
[84:04] of the footage like I saw them showing
[84:07] off Dragon's Layer 3D as early as 2000
[84:10] like on a computer
[84:12] >> and that would
[84:14] shaded one, right?
[84:15] >> The the cell shaded one. Yeah.
[84:17] >> But what I I've never been able to
[84:19] figure this out and maybe somebody can I
[84:21] I don't even know if I can describe it
[84:22] well enough. So, I also remember
[84:24] watching these videos with a friend of
[84:25] mine, Nathan. We downloaded tons of
[84:28] videos and we would like put them on CDs
[84:29] and like watch them all, which was a bit
[84:32] crazy, but there was this trailer for a
[84:34] PC game shown at this show. And it was
[84:38] so laughably bad. Like, we could not
[84:41] stop laughing about it. It was just like
[84:43] it was so choppy. The camera angles were
[84:45] so bad. Like, the animation was so bad.
[84:48] And I just remember thinking it was the
[84:50] funniest thing at the time because they
[84:51] wanted it to be epic, but it looked like
[84:53] it was one of the worst looking things
[84:54] I'd ever seen. And I but I've never been
[84:56] able to figure out what that was.
[84:58] >> Oh man, I'm I'm dying to see
[85:00] >> person here.
[85:02] >> You're sure this was 2000?
[85:05] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was
[85:06] definitely It It was 2000 because that's
[85:09] when I we would have been watching these
[85:11] videos. It was the summer where we
[85:13] played a lot of Dreamcast.
[85:17] So that was a that was a weird time for
[85:19] that.
[85:20] >> Um, and yeah, PS2 was was kind of the
[85:24] main focus of the show beyond that.
[85:26] Although they did have a Simpsons
[85:28] wrestling like ring setup with like
[85:31] characters dressed as Marge and and
[85:33] Homer like in the ring.
[85:35] >> That game is insanely bad. Yeah,
[85:39] >> it is so bad. I mean, you are the
[85:41] wrestling game expert, Audi, and I think
[85:43] you can agree. Yeah, for that one it
[85:45] like the only story I have because the
[85:48] game is just terrible. It's one of the
[85:49] worst games ever made. Uh when I was
[85:51] writing my book and trying to contact
[85:56] someone that worked on it, I did get in
[85:58] touch with one of them and
[86:01] I just got like a reply back saying, "I
[86:04] have no interest in revisiting this time
[86:06] in my life or this game. Like I do not
[86:08] want to talk about it." I was like,
[86:10] "Okay." you know, it was the only that
[86:12] was the only insight I got into
[86:14] development on it. Uh, basically was
[86:17] just people didn't it was just paid very
[86:20] quickly and no one wanted to talk about
[86:21] it.
[86:22] >> So yeah, E3 2000 very special time. But
[86:26] 2001, now this is really interesting
[86:28] because this is the first year where
[86:31] there was a company called NextGen
[86:33] Videos, I believe, and they put out a
[86:37] collection, a DVD called Future of Video
[86:39] Games Volume One. And I would buy each
[86:42] of these, and I think I still have them
[86:43] all. I also got the GameSpot selection
[86:45] of DVDs from this era, uh, but I think
[86:48] they were 2002 or 2003. I I forget when
[86:51] they started, but basically this was
[86:53] finally a moment in time where companies
[86:55] decided, hey, we're going to sell you
[86:57] DVD quality video from these trade
[86:59] shows,
[87:00] >> from the shows.
[87:00] >> And yeah,
[87:01] >> I would buy these and like my sister and
[87:04] I would just like literally watch the
[87:07] entire discs, just go down, watch every
[87:09] single video. It would be like a four or
[87:12] five disc set. But what was great about
[87:14] it is it was the first time that you
[87:16] could actually see the true frame rate
[87:18] of content
[87:19] >> because everything was shown at actual
[87:21] 60 frames per second.
[87:22] >> Yeah.
[87:23] >> So like it it felt like you were closer
[87:26] than ever to uh seeing these games in
[87:29] action.
[87:30] >> And 2001 is when we saw a lot of big
[87:32] stuff. So like the one I really remember
[87:35] specifically the most and I saw this
[87:37] before the DVD as well was Jack and
[87:39] Daxter.
[87:41] that first trailer was revealed with
[87:43] that really it was a song used from
[87:47] >> another source.
[87:49] >> Everybody thought it was Enya at the
[87:51] time. It's not Enya, but uh
[87:54] >> I remember
[87:55] >> the music was really good and the game
[87:57] looked amazing and I'd never seen a
[87:59] world that detailed and large before and
[88:02] then to find out it was all 60 fps it
[88:04] was like wow. But the disappointment
[88:06] from E3 stems from I really like the
[88:08] music in that trailer and then the game
[88:09] comes out and I hate the soundtrack.
[88:12] >> We'll get back we'll get back into that
[88:13] later. By the way, this happens again at
[88:15] a much greater scale.
[88:17] >> Oh boy. So that that kind of stuff
[88:19] sucks. But 2001 though, man, this is
[88:22] when So PS2 is going into like arguably
[88:26] its best year ever. Like just so much
[88:28] stuff comes out this year. Uh Gamecube
[88:30] and Xbox are both already known
[88:33] quantities. They are revealed. They go
[88:35] big at this show. Microsoft had Bungie,
[88:38] weirdly enough, and Halo was shown here,
[88:41] but it was not shown well. The E3 demo
[88:43] famously was really [ __ ] and ran very
[88:45] poorly. And everybody was hyped for Dead
[88:48] or Alive 3, which was like the big title
[88:50] for Xbox, right? So, but and I remember
[88:54] watching the Halo demo uh from E3 and
[88:57] thinking, man, this is like 15 fps. It
[89:00] was really bad. And I thought it looked
[89:02] so much worse than that older PC footage
[89:04] we saw. Little did I know it would
[89:07] consume me over the next few years. But
[89:09] >> yeah,
[89:10] >> as they pull it together like really
[89:12] like towards the end, I think of
[89:14] development.
[89:14] >> Yes, they did.
[89:16] >> That's kind of the whole thing, right?
[89:17] >> We also Yeah, go ahead.
[89:19] >> I do want to mention that I I was I was
[89:21] at this E3.
[89:22] >> Oh, right. This is the one.
[89:24] >> Yeah, this is the one. Uh at the time I
[89:27] was doing video for a website called the
[89:29] nextlevel.com
[89:31] and uh I was able to go as part of that
[89:34] group and you know that that forum was
[89:37] like a big part of my life and you know
[89:39] it's kind of funny because people that I
[89:40] met on that forum from like 99 through
[89:44] like even till today like kind of weave
[89:47] in and out in my life. It's it's it's
[89:50] kind of amazing just how influential
[89:51] it's been on my life and like where I
[89:53] am. Uh yeah, I I was there wandering the
[89:57] floor and uh taking a bunch of photos.
[89:59] I'll see if I can scan some photos and
[90:00] put them in.
[90:02] >> Don't you have footage as well
[90:04] >> or is that from
[90:05] >> the footage that the footage is from
[90:07] 2002 that I did not go to, but I had a I
[90:10] had a friend who was able to go uh he
[90:13] was a manager at Electronics Boutique
[90:15] and I think that that would allow them
[90:16] to also get in
[90:18] >> for free like during that time.
[90:20] See for me like 01 and 02 but 01
[90:24] especially because 01 I was an intern at
[90:27] Funkcom was the first time I kind of got
[90:29] a step into the industry. I didn't go to
[90:32] this or anything but uh that was when I
[90:35] started kind of realizing that maybe
[90:38] potentially one day I can get lucky
[90:40] enough and go to one of these. Uh little
[90:43] did I know I go through several but like
[90:46] uh at the time because you're mentioning
[90:48] like the magazines in the US but there
[90:51] was a Swedish magazine maybe it was
[90:53] called Play or maybe that's later but
[90:56] for us here in Scandinavia and Europe uh
[90:59] the like some came with VHS cassettes
[91:01] but some came with actually DVDs uh
[91:04] supplied and it has a lot of I still
[91:06] have some of them so I'll try to dig it
[91:08] up for this episode. Uh, but those are
[91:10] like super early
[91:12] uh coverage of E3 at the show by these
[91:16] kind of wideeyed Scandinavians just kind
[91:19] of like, "Oh my god, look at this." Uh,
[91:22] and it's just interesting to see because
[91:24] like that was how I imagined it too. And
[91:26] then the footage you showed me, Corey,
[91:28] from the ones you went to is just kind
[91:30] of like reminiscent of that era. But
[91:31] this was when I started,
[91:34] >> you know, I was sitting on the
[91:35] magicbox.net net and refreshing all the
[91:38] time.
[91:38] >> Oh, the magic box. Remember? Yeah, I was
[91:41] refreshing that site all the time to see
[91:43] whatever the latest announcements were.
[91:45] Again, kind of like in the middle of the
[91:46] night because it's nine hour difference
[91:48] >> and u
[91:49] >> or the GIA maybe sometimes too.
[91:51] >> Yeah. And um just never more.
[91:57] >> Yeah, it was it was really good for
[91:58] Japanese games that site.
[92:00] >> Yes.
[92:00] >> Um
[92:01] >> Magic Black. Yes.
[92:02] >> Really good site. But this is when we
[92:04] started getting more video coverage just
[92:06] being able to download it, but also
[92:08] packed in. Uh Nintendo also for the N64
[92:12] magazine put I think most of their E3
[92:15] lineup on a VHS cassette that I still
[92:18] have that is per colored or yellow
[92:22] orange colored u actually. Um but you
[92:25] have like Luigi's Mansion, the Smash
[92:28] Brothers uh opening demo and things like
[92:31] this. So, like I was just, you know,
[92:33] fully invested in E3 because like we
[92:36] were starting to get so much coverage
[92:38] from it u both real time and then
[92:41] afterwards Sunday magazines.
[92:43] >> That's actually a good point that uh
[92:44] there would have been like tape of
[92:47] earlier E3s of good quality, but it's
[92:50] something that we we as consumers
[92:52] wouldn't have really had good access to,
[92:54] right?
[92:54] >> Yeah.
[92:55] >> At the time.
[92:55] >> I feel like No Clip was uploading a lot
[92:58] of these old uh
[92:59] >> he got like
[93:00] >> videapes. Yeah. It got like,
[93:01] >> but it might be after this period, I
[93:03] think. But I don't know. I'd have to
[93:05] kind of look back through because it was
[93:06] all from
[93:08] >> like Game Informers archives or
[93:10] somebody's archives,
[93:11] >> something like this. Yeah.
[93:12] >> Yeah.
[93:14] >> Yeah. Uh, right.
[93:16] >> So, for me, the big one that I remember,
[93:18] you were going to mention like reveals
[93:19] from this year. Uh, for me, like I
[93:22] remember Silent Hill 2 being a big deal.
[93:24] >> Oh, that's right.
[93:25] >> I don't know if it was announced at that
[93:27] point, but that was that was the first
[93:28] time that I'd seen it. And the uh you
[93:31] know like the real- time cutcenes in
[93:33] that game are incredible. Like the
[93:35] character models are just
[93:37] >> staggeringly beautiful.
[93:39] >> So for me one of the kind of reveals has
[93:41] nothing to do with video games but at
[93:43] this time there was a Japanese
[93:45] >> wrestling company called FMW that had
[93:49] some placement at E3 and they brought
[93:51] over one of my all-time like idols,
[93:54] Hayabusa. And I just remember seeing
[93:57] footage of like him in the US and like
[94:00] dealing with these trade shows and stuff
[94:01] and being so jealous. Uh he has past I
[94:04] never got to meet him. Uh but like you
[94:06] know when I was in doing this stuff
[94:09] myself that was like the guy I emulated.
[94:12] U so I just remember that like I was so
[94:15] jealous of the fact that like these
[94:17] Swedes with like wide eyes got to be in
[94:20] the presence of a living legend like
[94:22] that. And uh because because I think
[94:25] Tokyo Pop had some sort of booth there
[94:27] and they brought them over uh because
[94:29] they were doing DVDs and whatnot of that
[94:31] company.
[94:32] >> Tony Hawk Pro Skater had always already
[94:34] been like a big hit, but this was I feel
[94:36] like 2001 was when they really expanded
[94:38] the whole Activision O2 line and then
[94:40] they had like Dave Mera
[94:42] >> uh BMX and um
[94:45] >> like Pro Surfer and stuff like that
[94:47] because I remember
[94:48] >> there was Tony Pro Skater 3 coming later
[94:50] that year as well,
[94:51] >> right? Huge,
[94:52] >> right? Yeah. So, because they had a big
[94:54] show like that, they had the the like
[94:56] the halfpipe there and there was, you
[94:58] know, skaters in there and uh I think a
[95:01] friend of mine got their photo taken
[95:03] with uh with Bucky Lassic, I think.
[95:05] >> Wow. Another
[95:09] >> See, that's that's that's the kind of
[95:11] thing looking at footage that and this
[95:13] wouldn't have really usually been on the
[95:14] DVDs, unfortunately, but like footage of
[95:17] the stuff happening on the floor. And I
[95:19] have seen some other footage of that
[95:21] where you've got like
[95:22] >> half pipes and like all the stage shows
[95:24] and there's dancing and it's just crazy
[95:27] business happening. Not to mention the
[95:29] parties.
[95:30] >> No, the part Yeah. I mean, this is still
[95:32] active by the time I started going. So,
[95:34] uh we'll have some firsthand reports on
[95:37] that.
[95:38] >> And Cory, you uh you you met you
[95:40] interviewed Victor Island or met him or
[95:42] something. Well, we because I was part
[95:44] of that website, we got to have I got to
[95:46] go to a couple of the the meetings and
[95:48] that was the first time I met Victor
[95:49] Ireland and that was
[95:51] >> Oh, nice.
[95:51] >> Uh, Lunar 2 was uh complete edition was
[95:55] about or Lunar 2 uh Eternal Blue
[95:58] Complete was about to come out. So,
[95:59] that's when uh I got to meet him and it
[96:02] was it was cool. I got a got a free copy
[96:04] of Sulfie the Lost Planet during that.
[96:06] Oh,
[96:07] >> said that they were thinking about
[96:08] developing or porting games or uh
[96:11] translating games for the the Gamecube,
[96:14] >> which obviously never ended up
[96:15] happening.
[96:15] >> That definitely did not. But yeah, man.
[96:18] E3
[96:20] uh
[96:22] 2001 was a was such a huge year, I
[96:25] think, and it was I think I mean, just
[96:27] as a year in general, that was one of
[96:29] the best that I can ever remember.
[96:31] >> And it to set the stage for for that
[96:33] entire next generation in a big way. was
[96:36] also the final E3 for the Dreamcast.
[96:39] They'd already announced that they were
[96:40] discontinuing it, but there was still
[96:42] some E3 presence with Sega and Dreamcast
[96:44] at the show.
[96:46] >> Yeah.
[96:46] >> Um, but really this was about
[96:48] PlayStation 2, Xbox, and Gamecube in a
[96:50] big way. And of course, the PC
[96:52] >> was the And I've mentioned it before,
[96:54] but I think that one of the the funniest
[96:57] things to talk about, or at the time, we
[96:58] didn't think it was a big deal, but
[97:00] there was people saying like, "Oh my
[97:01] god, I I played Grand Theft Auto 3." It
[97:03] was just kind of like in this side booth
[97:05] like out of like out of the uh like the
[97:08] main area.
[97:10] >> Yeah.
[97:11] >> Everyone was like it was is it's
[97:12] incredible. I can't believe what they
[97:14] were doing with it. And uh at that time,
[97:16] you know, nobody knew what was what was
[97:19] in store for them, how that would change
[97:21] the entire landscape of video games.
[97:24] So the big question I have kind of going
[97:27] forward is
[97:29] >> I don't remember what year but right
[97:31] around this time is when we actually
[97:34] started to get to see press conferences
[97:37] live on
[97:38] >> 2004 was when you
[97:40] >> 200
[97:41] I think 2003 had it as well. That's when
[97:44] you had it. But like 2004 was when they
[97:47] started putting that stuff like
[97:51] scheduled in and people were locked in.
[97:54] Like
[97:54] >> it was bar I think GameSpot had a couple
[97:57] of them.
[97:58] >> Gamespot. GameSpot was the most reliable
[98:01] one that I as I
[98:02] >> recall had the best bit rate of of time.
[98:05] Yes.
[98:06] >> Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I I I
[98:09] think the closest analogy I can make
[98:11] today is, you know, the frustration that
[98:13] people have trying to pre-order new
[98:15] consoles and new anything that needs a
[98:18] pre-order today and the websites break
[98:21] and you can't get in and you don't get
[98:23] in and you're frustrated and angry and
[98:25] mad. That's what just watching a live
[98:28] video game presentation was back in
[98:30] these days. like it was you you had to
[98:34] wait so long for the page to even load.
[98:37] Like you didn't know if you were
[98:38] actually going to get into the page and
[98:42] you know people were you know having all
[98:43] these theories like oh if you do this if
[98:45] you do that or open that in a different
[98:46] browser whatever. It was like really
[98:49] nerve-wracking whether you were going to
[98:50] get to see this event live. But it it it
[98:53] was uh it that was that was when E3 I
[98:56] think started to get really cool for me
[98:58] was seeing the press conferences live.
[99:00] >> So I think that would have been 2003.
[99:02] 2002
[99:04] I don't think they were showing things
[99:06] live yet or if they were I I wasn't able
[99:08] to catch it.
[99:10] >> I would that was still that was still a
[99:12] big year, right? This is when um we saw
[99:14] Wind Waker at E3. There was Super Mario
[99:17] Sunshine there. Resident Evil Zero, Star
[99:19] Fox Adventures,
[99:20] >> you know, I guess Metroid Prime probably
[99:22] would have been there.
[99:23] >> Uh, Splinter Cell was shown off
[99:25] >> and like Dragon Or
[99:28] >> Xbox Live was unveiled, I believe.
[99:31] >> Oh, yeah.
[99:31] >> Um, and it was just, you know, it was it
[99:33] was another big year, I would say, for a
[99:36] lot of games. But
[99:37] >> the image and the image in my head for
[99:40] this year is Miiamoto coming in from the
[99:44] back of the theater playing Super Mario
[99:47] Sunshine
[99:49] all the way from the back with a waveird
[99:52] and he's like slowly walking up to E3.
[99:57] >> I think it was E3. I'm pretty sure it
[99:59] was E3. Okay,
[100:01] >> I I remember the footage, but
[100:03] >> at this time I just remember that like
[100:05] Nintendo was really like you were
[100:08] getting way more content out of Nintendo
[100:10] at Space World than you ever got out of
[100:12] E3 at this era. I think that I I'm my my
[100:16] my I I'm I'm pretty sure it's a largely
[100:18] American audience in this footage, but
[100:21] maybe I could be misremembering, but I'm
[100:23] pretty sure this is E3 where you know,
[100:25] we already knew about the Wave Bird, we
[100:26] already knew about Mario Sunshine, but
[100:28] he's like all the way in the back
[100:30] playing this wirelessly
[100:32] uh and walking working his way up to the
[100:34] stage. I'm pretty sure that's E32.
[100:37] >> At this E3, would they have been playing
[100:40] Sunshine at 60 or 30? because that
[100:43] change happened from Spacew World to
[100:46] sometime right?
[100:48] >> I I would need to find some footage. I
[100:50] suspect it would be 30 at this point cuz
[100:52] the game was close to ship.
[100:54] >> Uh but you're right, that Spacew World
[100:56] footage was all 60 fps and
[100:57] >> the first time I ever saw it and
[100:59] >> was shown shown again. And that's that's
[101:01] actually a really interesting point,
[101:03] Audi, because it would have been due to
[101:06] either TV broadcast or some sort of DVD
[101:08] cuz I somehow was able to see the 60 fps
[101:12] footage back then.
[101:13] >> I had it too. I think it was packed.
[101:15] I'll try to find it, but it's definitely
[101:17] on a DVD. I have like the Spacew World
[101:20] demo for Mario.
[101:22] >> Uh you have like Miyamoto like
[101:24] >> showing it and then it fades into the
[101:27] >> the 60 fra frames per second demo. Um,
[101:30] and I was super hyped for that. And I I
[101:33] still like Sunshine, but that was
[101:35] definitely one of the games where I
[101:37] started really being like the difference
[101:40] between a platformer at 30 and 60 is
[101:43] pretty massive.
[101:44] >> And for Mario, I was very disappointed.
[101:47] >> Uh, when I first played it. So,
[101:50] >> yeah.
[101:51] >> Yeah, I I was definitely aware. So, it
[101:53] would have been Yeah, it was the Spacew
[101:55] World 2001 footage. Yeah, there is
[101:58] footage out there showing exactly what I
[102:00] saw. It was from Kikiso.
[102:02] >> Yeah,
[102:03] >> I remember that site.
[102:05] >> But I guess they somehow were able to
[102:07] upload at 60 fps as well. Like I mean,
[102:10] but then yeah, at E3
[102:14] 2002, it does seem I found some footage
[102:17] of the press conference here.
[102:19] >> Okay,
[102:19] >> that does seem to be 30.
[102:21] >> Okay.
[102:21] >> And it looks pretty much like the final
[102:23] game. So like that early Space Road
[102:25] footage looked really different from
[102:27] what would ship I would say.
[102:28] >> Yes.
[102:29] >> And then you know by the time they
[102:31] showed it again it had changed a lot and
[102:33] was now just 30 which is a shame.
[102:36] >> That space world demo and it can't it
[102:38] might be in the final game but it has a
[102:40] really good arrangement of the Mario
[102:42] music with like a ukulele. Uh and I
[102:45] don't think it's ever been released. So
[102:48] >> Oh that's a shame.
[102:49] >> Yeah. Now, before we move on from 2002
[102:55] here, there's actually two more in well,
[102:58] a couple more interesting things I want
[102:59] to mention uh on the PC side. First of
[103:02] all, we haven't mentioned it yet, but I
[103:04] would say arguably the biggest game of
[103:06] that show and the one that I watched the
[103:08] most in video form was Doom 3.
[103:12] >> Like Doom 3 was already known. Apple had
[103:14] or IDS software demonstrated it at an
[103:17] Apple conference to showcase what they
[103:19] were doing on like the GeForce 3 or
[103:20] something. But 2002 is when ID finally
[103:24] unveiled that full demo of Doom 3. And
[103:27] it's the same demo that would eventually
[103:29] leak to the internet if you recall,
[103:33] >> which caused a huge uh issue for them.
[103:36] But and I of course downloaded and
[103:37] played it, but yeah, it was very broken.
[103:40] It was not intended for public use, but
[103:42] either way, that demo was incredible
[103:46] looking. Like that was such a next
[103:48] generational leap in terms of visuals,
[103:50] like unlike anything we'd ever seen
[103:52] because what Doom 3 was doing already
[103:54] was like basically showcasing all the
[103:56] new technologies that we would start to
[103:57] see in the next generation of consoles,
[104:00] but in 2002. So like everything cast a
[104:03] shadow. You had full unified shadows and
[104:05] lighting. So you had pixel shaders per
[104:07] pixel lighting, bump mapping, full
[104:10] shadows, p uh uh stencil shadows on
[104:13] everything, just like huge, incredible
[104:16] animation work, uh just crazy effects.
[104:19] Like it just looked like it was truly
[104:21] like beyond anything that ever existed
[104:23] before, I would say.
[104:24] >> Didn't John Carmarmac kind of infamously
[104:26] pitch this as like the final step to
[104:29] like unify all elements of a of a
[104:31] graphics engine together? And but yeah,
[104:34] that engine was only really good at
[104:36] making games that look like Doom 3.
[104:39] >> Uh I mean, yeah, there was definitely
[104:41] some talk of that, but it was really
[104:43] just limitations of like the era, right?
[104:45] Like cuz doing unified lighting like
[104:46] that is expensive and it was very
[104:49] expensive at the time. So naturally, it
[104:52] wasn't super fast, certainly in 2002.
[104:55] But that was that was a big headline.
[104:57] But as we only learned much later, and I
[105:00] don't know if you guys have seen this,
[105:01] but on the anniversary of HalfLife 2,
[105:04] uh, in 2024,
[105:06] Valve released the E3 2002 demo of
[105:10] HalfLife 2 footage.
[105:12] HalfLife 2 was not shown at E3 2002.
[105:17] Instead, as we would learn, they had
[105:19] been building a demo for HalfLife 2 to
[105:22] show at E3 2002. And Gabe Newwell made
[105:26] the decision to not show it because he
[105:28] felt it wasn't good enough. And they
[105:30] they actually revealed footage. It's
[105:32] like a 27minute video on the Valve
[105:35] YouTube channel showcasing it. Uh, and
[105:37] it's like fighting sand lions and stuff
[105:39] in the desert. It looks very different
[105:41] from the final game. And I would say
[105:44] nowhere near as impressive as what they
[105:46] would show the following year, which
[105:48] we'll get to. Uh it's didn't have a lot
[105:51] of those elements. And the weapons look
[105:52] weird. Actually, the the weapon that
[105:54] Gordon's using in most of the demo looks
[105:55] like something out of Red Faction rather
[105:58] than HalfLife 2. So, it's it's it's
[106:01] weird. But that was another one. But
[106:03] that year on the PC also, we got
[106:05] Warcraft 3 was demonstrated. World of
[106:08] Warcraft was super early and shown. both
[106:11] very very big. Uh Maxpane 2 got
[106:14] announced and then there was even stuff
[106:16] like America's Army.
[106:19] >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was like
[106:21] the uh US Army sponsored game, right?
[106:25] They It was like a recruitment uh thing.
[106:28] >> It basically. Yeah. It was like, "Hey,
[106:30] what if we did like Counter Strike, but
[106:33] it was like sponsored by the American
[106:35] Army." and but it was apparent I didn't
[106:39] really play it much but it was
[106:40] apparently pretty good so and that was
[106:44] shown there
[106:46] >> but E3 2003 this I do think is the first
[106:51] year I would have done streaming because
[106:53] this is the year where I first got a
[106:57] Panasonic ED TV
[107:00] which was 480p capable actually it could
[107:02] do 1080i as well so I guess it's
[107:03] technically HD TV but I was able to
[107:06] start piping video from my computer into
[107:09] the TV at 480p. And that was such a big
[107:14] deal because I could watch videos from
[107:16] the PC on that TV. And I invited friends
[107:20] of mine over and we gathered around that
[107:23] TV with my PC plugged in and watched the
[107:26] jankiest live stream you could imagine.
[107:28] I remember being so stressed
[107:31] disconnect and buffer and get nasty and
[107:34] you're just like ah
[107:35] >> it's so it was so stressful like this
[107:38] was just like a moment that you just
[107:40] like could not imagine missing out on
[107:43] >> right like I I was like really hyped for
[107:45] this and I you know we had we had
[107:47] prepared everything for this and it just
[107:50] like man it was it was brutal being
[107:55] >> feel like it was the future. No,
[107:59] I felt like I was doing something
[108:00] illicit almost.
[108:04] >> Yeah, you're just you're doing Yeah.
[108:05] doing it in a way that was not supposed
[108:07] to be done.
[108:09] >> But like basically each year things
[108:11] would get better in terms of like stream
[108:14] quality, but early on, I mean, it was
[108:16] bad. And I remember that was the year
[108:19] >> hairy for a number of years. And the
[108:21] reason I think it was that year is
[108:23] because I believe at the Nintendo
[108:24] conference that's the first time they
[108:26] showed Resident Evil 4 maybe or the
[108:30] first time I remember when it was the
[108:32] Hookman demo
[108:33] >> where they announced Resident Evil 4.
[108:35] Maybe this was like post Capcom 5 or
[108:37] during that whole period but
[108:38] >> I think it was during that period.
[108:40] >> Yeah. They showed off RE4 and it looked
[108:42] insane and I remember thinking like oh
[108:44] dude like this is this is going to be
[108:47] >> I couldn't believe it. Yeah. I was very
[108:50] invested into RE4 throughout its
[108:53] development. I remember this.
[108:56] >> So, and and that was also the conference
[108:58] that had like uh Iwata on stage when he
[109:01] was still very like new. I think George
[109:04] Harrison
[109:06] uh would have still been up there.
[109:09] And I think of course they probably
[109:12] would have gotten Miamoto at some point.
[109:15] That was I think that was the show. I do
[109:18] remember this was the era of Nintendo
[109:19] being obsessed with connectivity. You
[109:22] remember that try? Like everything was
[109:23] like, "Oh, we can do this now. We got
[109:25] Pac-Man versus which is great."
[109:27] >> Game Boy Advance,
[109:28] >> Crystal Chronicles. It was the idea of
[109:30] connecting your Game Boy Advance to to
[109:32] your Gamecube. And Nintendo
[109:35] was so big.
[109:36] >> They spent a long time on Pac-Man versus
[109:38] I think if I recall.
[109:40] >> They sure did. And but but people like
[109:43] always say like I've never played it but
[109:45] people say it's actually it's amazing I
[109:47] guess but at the time watching this
[109:50] >> didn't seem very exciting.
[109:52] >> I mean all the experiences I've had with
[109:54] connecting Game Boy Advance to Gamecube
[109:58] was great. Um Tom and I played like
[110:00] Crystal Chronicles
[110:03] Pac-Man was like Four Swords eventually.
[110:07] So, I mean, they they had a great
[110:10] product in it. It's just it really
[110:12] didn't catch on. Most people did not.
[110:14] >> The barrier for entry was too great.
[110:15] >> Yeah. And I remember hating that
[110:18] connector. Uh at least maybe mine was
[110:21] slightly damaged on the little hook
[110:23] thing, but like it kept like falling
[110:25] out. So, like
[110:27] >> yeah, I mean the experience itself was
[110:29] great with the Game Boy connectivity.
[110:33] And this would it would this have been
[110:35] the pre uh GBA SP too. So you're still
[110:38] like dealing with like the the darker
[110:40] screen and everything while doing this?
[110:42] >> I don't remember. I feel like the SP
[110:44] would have been out by then.
[110:46] >> P is 2002.
[110:49] >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure SP was out.
[110:50] >> Okay.
[110:52] >> Uh but so
[110:54] >> I also remember this was another year of
[110:57] like really great demos being shown. Um,
[111:00] we got that amazing trailer of Metal
[111:03] Gear Solid 3 Snake Eater, which I was on
[111:06] the the Gaming Age forums, Gaff, at the
[111:09] time.
[111:10] >> I I'd been on them since like 2000
[111:12] >> and I remember I feel like the Metal
[111:14] Gear Solid 3 trailer, like a bit of it
[111:17] leaked out early, like because we were
[111:18] all excited for E3 and I remember seeing
[111:20] a little bit of this and everybody was
[111:21] like, "Wait, what is this?"
[111:23] >> Like it's like jungle and stuff
[111:25] >> and it was it was super cool. Uh, this
[111:28] was also the year um when Xbox showed
[111:31] Halo 2 where it had that really epic
[111:34] demo of
[111:36] >> Oh, yeah. New.
[111:37] >> It's not even in the game.
[111:38] >> It's not in the game. And and
[111:41] >> uh spoilers, I should be able to finally
[111:44] feature this properly on DF because uh
[111:47] we have obtained an Xbox with the 120
[111:50] megabytes modded in and it has that Halo
[111:53] 2 E3 demo installed on it.
[111:56] So I I will finally be able to play it
[111:58] on a real Xbox soon.
[112:01] So
[112:01] >> wow, that's funny.
[112:02] >> But that was awesome at the time and it
[112:05] really looked crazy.
[112:07] >> Uh and then also,
[112:09] >> you know, Doom 3 was shown again, but
[112:10] this is this is the year when Halflife 2
[112:14] actually was revealed. And I got to ask,
[112:15] do you guys remember this? No.
[112:17] >> To me, this was like worlds shattering.
[112:19] >> My goodness.
[112:21] >> I was not into Halflife, dude.
[112:24] I wasn't into PCs.
[112:26] >> The thing is I remember it is
[112:28] >> Doom 3 was already mind-blowing but then
[112:30] Halfife 2 they do
[112:32] >> I remember Doom 3 I love Doom 3. It was
[112:34] the that was my Doom basically uh
[112:37] because it was like more narrative
[112:38] driven and more you know sing like
[112:41] single player experienced whereas Doom 1
[112:44] and two I was just never good at.
[112:47] >> But HalfLife I was very into the party.
[112:49] The Half-Life demo was so exciting to me
[112:52] because this this was again another one
[112:54] of those moments where you feel like
[112:55] you're getting a tease of NextG. It was
[112:58] like a 25 27 minute video or
[113:01] presentation from Valve. Gabe Newell in
[113:04] the room. Uh and this was them
[113:06] introducing Source Engine for the first
[113:08] time. And they start by like showcasing
[113:11] like, hey, Source Engine has physics.
[113:15] They show like breaking wood and having
[113:17] it splinter. They showed like a fake
[113:19] pachinko machine with barrels falling
[113:21] down through it. They've got water to
[113:23] show buoyancy. It's like just this idea
[113:26] like when you shoot a like all these
[113:28] wood things together, they actually kind
[113:29] of all like shake around and break apart
[113:31] and it just feels so realistic and
[113:34] visceral at the time. It was genuinely
[113:37] mind-blowing. And then they started
[113:38] showing off like, "Hey, we have this
[113:40] thing. It's called normal maps. You guys
[113:43] ever heard of that?"
[113:44] And you know, obviously that would go on
[113:47] to define textured surfaces going
[113:49] forward. Uh lots of special effects and
[113:52] like the most amazing water anybody ever
[113:55] seen. And then it ran through a bunch of
[113:56] scenarios showing different elements
[114:00] that they would plan to ship in the
[114:01] game. And it's like a it's like a series
[114:04] of short vignettes. Like it shows Dr.
[114:06] Kleiner's lab. But the big one was like
[114:08] they show um Raven home and this idea
[114:13] like you and the final game doesn't even
[114:15] have this like you see an enemy and
[114:17] immediately like they have Gordon run
[114:19] into this house, close the door and like
[114:21] enemies are chasing him down and like
[114:23] you actually see you know those like
[114:25] slats that they would sometimes put in
[114:27] front of windows where it's like tall
[114:29] skinny things connected at the top and
[114:31] then you would like pull a cord to like
[114:33] cover the window. They have a window
[114:35] with those and you see like the enemies
[114:37] actually like hitting each one and
[114:39] they're like breaking apart and flapping
[114:41] around. They're like coming in and
[114:42] trying to get into the building. Gordon
[114:44] pushes a table with stuff on it in front
[114:46] of the door to block it and then the
[114:48] combine kicks open the door and like
[114:50] everything goes flying and it's just
[114:52] like a it's just this like example of
[114:55] just crazy cool stuff happening. It's
[114:57] got the gravity gun. Uh, like I'm so I
[115:02] know you guys weren't into PC games, but
[115:04] I'm really surprised that you totally
[115:06] missed this cuz it really like I may
[115:08] have seen some of it at the time because
[115:10] I mean I remember I I I didn't have a
[115:13] computer good enough to really run a
[115:14] game like this until 2006.
[115:17] And you know, even then I was even then
[115:20] I was blown away by it uh when I when I
[115:22] tried it. Uh but yeah, I don't really
[115:26] know when I first started paying
[115:27] attention to HalfLife 2. It may have
[115:29] already been out. I'm not sure.
[115:32] >> I remember like Tom playing it when it
[115:35] came out because he's into HalfLife, but
[115:37] I don't remember like
[115:40] >> that this being showcased.
[115:41] >> I mean, I I
[115:44] stole the trailer from it, though.
[115:47] >> I mean, I I do think Halfife 2 is one of
[115:49] the most amazing games ever made, but
[115:51] just at the time, I was not really
[115:52] looking at PC stuff.
[115:54] >> And that's the thing, right? I maybe
[115:55] it's cuz I was posting on forums and
[115:57] stuff and also still into PC games, but
[115:59] like
[115:59] >> just seeing like it's the kind of
[116:02] feeling you don't really get from like
[116:04] shows these days, but like when Valve
[116:06] showed HalfLife 2,
[116:08] >> you felt like you were just seeing
[116:09] things that had never been made before.
[116:12] It genuinely felt like a glimpse into
[116:14] the future. There was just stuff going
[116:16] on in that trailer where you're like,
[116:18] "This is unbelievable." Like I
[116:20] >> And no one no one can recreate that game
[116:22] these days. like that can't no that
[116:25] can't be
[116:25] >> it's almost impossible to do it.
[116:28] >> And I love the way they built this into
[116:30] all those vignettes where like the
[116:32] person in the demo room could guide the
[116:35] player through each one of these
[116:36] vignettes so they can show off all these
[116:38] different pieces from the game to give
[116:40] you an idea of all the different types
[116:42] of things you can do. And this heavy
[116:45] focus on physics along with cutting edge
[116:48] graphics was really like the next step.
[116:50] like games just didn't have physics like
[116:52] this before HalfLife 2 and it was uh it
[116:56] was crazy. So yeah, I I'll take your
[116:58] word I can't help I can't help but gush
[117:00] at this. It was it was a very special
[117:02] moment. I watched this video so many
[117:04] times.
[117:06] >> Uh it really sticks with me. It's just
[117:08] one of the coolest things. So and then
[117:12] man there's so we can't talk about every
[117:14] E3 like E3 2004.
[117:16] >> I was going to say like we're we're over
[117:19] two hours at this point. I'm kind of
[117:20] getting a little nervous because we
[117:21] still have another 16 to go.
[117:23] >> We haven't even started going to them
[117:25] yet. Like we're still
[117:27] >> So I guess let's just say 2004 another
[117:30] banger year.
[117:31] >> You can't just say a banger year because
[117:33] this 2004 is the last one of this era we
[117:36] need to talk about because that was you
[117:38] know
[117:38] >> so yeah Audi take us through 2004. Take
[117:41] us through it.
[117:42] >> Well so this was definitely a year that
[117:44] like
[117:46] you were talking about live streaming. I
[117:47] remember watch this was the year that I
[117:49] watched all of them live. They were all
[117:51] on GameSpot. Uh they were all being
[117:54] heavily promoted and just like it was
[117:56] counting down. It was an event and I
[117:58] remember sitting there with my friends.
[118:00] Uh and it was my last year of school. So
[118:04] I just remembered that like Nintendo had
[118:07] their show at an hour where I think at
[118:10] the end of the day we were able to sit
[118:12] down and watch it together on the
[118:14] broadband network there. And I think
[118:16] this was kind of where those live
[118:19] presentations
[118:20] were solidified as must-see events
[118:23] because that was when Reggie Phil came
[118:26] out
[118:27] >> and did the legendary line.
[118:29] >> Uh, and my god, that live show was
[118:34] >> exhilarating. when you watch it today,
[118:37] it's not that they were showing off like
[118:39] banger after banger, but what they were
[118:40] showing off and the way they showed it
[118:42] off for Nintendo especially
[118:44] >> was just like it really was kicking your
[118:47] ass. And you saw the DS
[118:50] >> uh you had like Reggie who was
[118:52] absolutely the opposite of anything that
[118:55] we have been trained as like Nintendo
[118:57] friendly. I think he was at Pizza Hut
[119:00] before this. Um, so just fueled by
[119:03] pepperoni, but and then of course there
[119:07] was the Twilight Princess reveal that
[119:09] was like finally after all these years a
[119:11] Wind Waker kind of
[119:13] >> now people love Wind Waker and I did.
[119:15] >> Right. Right. Right.
[119:16] >> But it was not beloved by the general
[119:18] populace.
[119:20] >> And so here you had this reveal of like
[119:23] >> return to form and you were mentioning
[119:25] earlier about uh trailer music. I
[119:28] remember like getting out of my chair
[119:30] for this because it was using the Conan
[119:33] music trail music and I was like, "Holy
[119:36] sh like, are they gonna use Bassel uh
[119:39] for the soundtrack here?"
[119:41] >> Uh, and they were not. Uh, but it fits
[119:44] so well. But this this live show of them
[119:47] revealing the DS, which was like
[119:50] incredible.
[119:51] >> That that's that's the jacket pole. The
[119:53] classic jacket pull.
[119:55] >> Yeah, jacket pull. And then remember
[119:57] they were showing off like the trailer
[119:59] for Zelda and they faded to Miiamoto on
[120:03] stage with like the lighting on him
[120:04] holding the shield and sword
[120:07] >> and people were on their feet and it was
[120:09] just like you were got swept up
[120:11] >> and for me that was the moment that I
[120:13] was like I am going
[120:15] >> like no matter what it takes I have to
[120:18] go to E3 like there is just no way I can
[120:21] ever allow myself.
[120:24] >> It did. Absolutely. I I feel like I feel
[120:27] like if if you put out like a a poll of
[120:29] like what is the most iconic E3
[120:32] conference from any like console
[120:34] manufacturer, I think this would be the
[120:36] one.
[120:37] >> This is the one they were chasing ever
[120:39] since.
[120:40] >> This is this was what a when people talk
[120:43] about that they miss the conferences,
[120:45] this is what they're missing.
[120:46] >> This is what they miss. Yep.
[120:48] >> You never you never really got to that
[120:50] high again. We music maybe. No,
[120:53] >> but
[120:55] You know,
[120:58] >> dude, you didn't even mention the intro.
[121:00] Like before Reggie comes on stage, they
[121:02] have that epic music with like worlds
[121:04] worth exploring and battles worth
[121:06] fighting, all that. And like it's like
[121:08] so epic and beyond. It's very different
[121:11] from what Nintendo had been doing as you
[121:12] noted. Like they were all about like
[121:14] cuteness. They were people called
[121:16] Nintendo kitty. It was like, you know,
[121:19] connectivity. And this felt like them
[121:21] being like, "Nah, we're doing something
[121:23] else."
[121:23] this because then they would do the Wii
[121:25] which is all about
[121:27] >> Sure. Sure. So,
[121:30] >> you know, as as a
[121:32] >> as someone who is like very much
[121:33] Nintendo first, uh like this was this
[121:36] was a moment like the whole Nintendo
[121:38] community had been waiting for, right?
[121:40] Like this was
[121:41] >> this was a moment where you no longer
[121:43] like felt ashamed to be a Nintendo fan.
[121:47] Like it it'll
[121:49] >> I mean Yeah. But like like for at least
[121:52] for a moment it felt like Nintendo was
[121:55] like the coolest thing in the universe.
[121:58] And this
[121:58] >> it it didn't feel like that the next
[122:00] year. But like this was everything like
[122:03] that Twilight Princess trailer. Man,
[122:05] >> I have the DVD still of that at like
[122:09] real good quality. And I just remember
[122:10] watching that over and over.
[122:12] >> It's ironically one of my least favorite
[122:15] Zelas.
[122:16] >> Uh but when that was revealed
[122:18] >> Oh yeah,
[122:19] >> man. I couldn't believe that specific
[122:21] trailer.
[122:22] >> I've heard that people were were in
[122:24] tears in the audience like
[122:27] >> I mean people is that where the meme
[122:29] comes for sitting there.
[122:31] >> Yeah, the IGN meme.
[122:32] >> I think that's right there and then me
[122:34] like this.
[122:35] >> No, no, it's IGN guys.
[122:36] >> Okay.
[122:37] >> Yeah. I don't I don't think that was
[122:39] 2004 though. I think that was in the
[122:42] >> I can't remember. It may have been an
[122:43] earlier one
[122:46] >> or later. I don't know. I could have
[122:48] sworn it was that one though because of
[122:50] the Zelda reveal at the end.
[122:51] >> Could it could be
[122:52] >> maybe
[122:55] >> but man either way
[122:57] >> you can't top that show. You can't you
[122:59] can't top that show. That that's just
[123:00] >> N3
[123:03] that
[123:04] >> is
[123:06] >> the DS
[123:07] didn't come out of that looking all that
[123:09] good.
[123:10] >> That's the thing, right?
[123:12] This is also the E3 where Sony revealed
[123:14] the PSP
[123:15] >> and the PSP like blew the doors out of
[123:18] like
[123:18] >> people unfairly were like oh the DS is
[123:21] like nothing and the PSP is
[123:23] >> well the DS did have a bad launch lineup
[123:26] as well. So just Yoshi Toppsy Turvy and
[123:30] the Curvy.
[123:31] >> No, no, no, no. Uh Yoshi Touch and Go.
[123:33] Topsy Turvy was a was an even a
[123:35] significantly worse GBA game.
[123:38] >> Yeah, that's right.
[123:41] bad Yoshi games. Um, but you
[123:44] >> and a great Kirby game.
[123:45] >> You know what? Well, I
[123:47] >> was the Yoshi gravitational or what was
[123:49] >> Yeah. Yeah, that's topsyturvy. Yeah. Um,
[123:52] the uh the thing that always surprises
[123:54] me about this this showing of the DS
[123:57] here is how relatively close it is to
[124:00] launch and then the final unit doesn't
[124:02] look anything like this. Like it's
[124:04] insane to me that all of that that that
[124:07] physical change and all of the launch
[124:10] units being manufactured happened I
[124:12] guess after this E3.
[124:14] Like did they know that it wasn't going
[124:16] to launch looking like that at this
[124:18] show? Cuz like it's got that black
[124:21] border and stuff. Um it's it's a it's a
[124:24] totally different look.
[124:25] >> It's very weird, right? Especially cuz
[124:28] like at the same show like the PSP
[124:30] again, the PSP was final looking
[124:32] hardware at E3 and it was like
[124:35] >> one of the most beautiful like objects I
[124:38] feel like I ever looked at.
[124:39] >> I never laid eyes.
[124:41] >> I'm not kidding, dude.
[124:43] >> I mean, that's not how I remember it.
[124:47] >> Console design.
[124:50] I was the hype that big I remember like
[124:52] PSP and DS being very split like 50/50
[124:56] that like you had the crowd
[124:58] >> the PSP looked pretty revolutionary with
[125:00] the quality of its screen for the time
[125:03] >> was it was huge dude PSP was like
[125:08] >> I mean everybody and when they launched
[125:10] earlier that that's when you got like
[125:12] John Ricardi and them back in Japan when
[125:14] it came out they made that joke picture
[125:16] with uh everybody playing Ridgeraer and
[125:18] then the DS going like Hey, who anybody
[125:20] want to play or something? Use it chat.
[125:23] >> Well,
[125:24] >> the idea at the time was basically
[125:25] >> I feel the magic.
[125:26] >> I think it's it's also important to
[125:28] remember that Nintendo was pitching the
[125:30] DS as a third pillar at the time because
[125:33] they themselves weren't that confident
[125:35] like this concept could work as a
[125:39] official replacement for the GBA. like
[125:41] they didn't want to set, you know, have
[125:45] GBA ride off into the sunset until they
[125:47] were sure that DS was going to really
[125:49] stick. And it it didn't it didn't stick
[125:52] at first. It was it was tough getting
[125:54] that going. Uh in now that all
[125:56] everything's shaken out, actually, this
[125:58] is a fun thing. In my personal opinion,
[126:01] I like the PSP more than the DS. I love
[126:03] the DS, but the DS is a game that's so
[126:06] heavy on games that require you to
[126:08] commit a lot of time, whereas I feel
[126:09] like the PSP has so many more games that
[126:12] you can just pick up still and have a
[126:13] great time with like right away.
[126:15] >> I I ghost
[126:18] >> or Ghost and Bins.
[126:19] >> I I I you know, I I I gave up on the
[126:22] PSP. I like sold my PSP after a bit
[126:25] because I I feel like the early PSP just
[126:28] was not doing it for me. So, I I
[126:30] definitely played a lot more DS when it
[126:32] was new, but then when I got back into
[126:33] PSP, uh I do agree PSP is a much more
[126:36] enjoyable system for me to revisit today
[126:40] than the DS is. But the DS Mario
[126:43] Brothers when that changes
[126:48] >> I think it was that
[126:51] >> was also the the DS light. The DS light.
[126:54] the D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D
[126:55] D D D Lite, which came out around the
[126:56] same time as New Super Mario Brothers,
[126:58] but uh it was, you know, Kirby Kirby and
[127:02] Kirby Canvas Curse and like um Advanced
[127:04] Wars Dual Strike, like that was when the
[127:06] DS started really turning around, I
[127:08] think. Um but yeah, it was
[127:11] >> maybe Animal Crossing.
[127:13] >> I just remember
[127:15] >> DS was in a good point by by Animal
[127:18] Crossing, I think. But that first like
[127:20] half year was pretty bad for the DS.
[127:23] >> Yeah. Yeah, amusingly though at E3 2004,
[127:29] uh, Doom 3, HalfLife 2, MGS3, Halo 2,
[127:32] all of them, they still weren't out yet.
[127:34] They would all come out later that year,
[127:36] which is insane. But the presentations
[127:39] that year were worse. Like Halo 2, they
[127:41] showed just the multiplayer and it was
[127:44] such an anemic and boring presentation
[127:46] compared to 2003. Even though I the the
[127:50] game turned out awesome, but like the
[127:52] presentation was not great. Uh I feel
[127:56] like
[127:56] >> and the multiplayer was awesome in that
[127:57] game, too. I mean,
[127:58] >> it was it was just that it was just a
[128:00] demo problem.
[128:01] >> It just didn't work very well on stage.
[128:03] >> Exactly. Exactly.
[128:05] >> John, I need to know
[128:07] >> when when when did Tac Fuji start coming
[128:10] to E3? When did Tac Fuji become famous?
[128:13] >> Later on.
[128:15] >> Later on.
[128:15] >> That was definitely much later.
[128:17] >> Okay. 2010 maybe.
[128:19] >> Really? That no
[128:21] >> crap it around the Frogger.
[128:24] >> Oh, right.
[128:26] No, that that could have been That would
[128:28] have been after this though. We don't
[128:30] Yeah, it because it's a Frogger. We
[128:31] don't crap around the Frogger.
[128:32] >> We don't We don't crap around the
[128:33] Frogger.
[128:34] >> As he famous as he famously said in an
[128:36] interview,
[128:36] >> we don't crap around the Frogger.
[128:38] >> We don't crap around the Frogger. Um,
[128:41] all right. For this episode, let's let's
[128:44] wrap up with E3 2005, okay? because I
[128:47] feel like this is like a turning point
[128:48] because this is when
[128:50] all the new stuff was being revealed and
[128:52] this was also a weird time because this
[128:54] is when I was living in Japan. So like I
[128:57] was watching stuff from afar. Uh and I
[129:00] actually did get to go to TGS that year
[129:02] and I saw PlayStation 3 there. But
[129:05] >> Oh wow.
[129:06] >> It was really shown off for the first
[129:07] time properly at the show and Xbox 360
[129:11] also shown off as well as the Revolution
[129:14] prototype. Uh, but famously,
[129:17] >> this is the one where Sony went nuts and
[129:20] like showcased a PS3 that ultimately
[129:23] would never exist.
[129:25] >> The boomerang, the horrible controller.
[129:27] Yeah,
[129:27] >> boomerang year. This is the year with
[129:29] with all the demos like Killzone 2, you
[129:32] know, Motortorm, all the bullshot demos
[129:35] where it's all these like either CGI
[129:37] trailers or like pie in the sky stuff.
[129:40] >> Basically, they like blew the doors off
[129:42] of everyone's expectations. It looked
[129:44] insane, but it was also not real at all.
[129:48] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[129:49] >> You don't know. There's a video on DF.
[129:53] >> Yes.
[129:53] >> Go over that presentation.
[129:54] >> We go we go if you if you want see more
[129:56] on that. There's a big video on it.
[129:58] >> And watch the re-edited version that has
[130:01] 2005 and 2006 together, Sony
[130:04] conferences, because they have much
[130:05] better source
[130:06] >> back. Mhm.
[130:07] >> Exactly. And 360 the same deal. We've
[130:11] looked at that. The 360 showing was
[130:13] actually not good. They had the Elijah
[130:14] Wood thing on MTV which was okay and in
[130:17] the
[130:18] >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But
[130:21] >> compared to what PS3 was doing, it felt
[130:23] like uh
[130:26] it didn't feel like a full generational
[130:28] leap at the time. In retrospect,
[130:30] obviously 360 would be awesome,
[130:33] >> but first impressions were not amazing.
[130:36] Uh and Nintendo, of course, was still to
[130:38] to be seen. Yeah,
[130:40] >> the revolution.
[130:42] >> They talked about the revolution. This
[130:44] is also I think when I famously said you
[130:46] will say wow about the graphics. So, the
[130:49] funny thing about uh this E3 for me was,
[130:52] you know, at the time I was uh in a like
[130:56] a very tight-knit, very small forum
[130:59] community and there was this guy who
[131:04] claimed to go to E3
[131:07] and, you know, he said enough things
[131:09] over the years to like make that seem
[131:11] sort of plausible, but we were starting
[131:15] to have our doubts about him because
[131:17] there was some things that he's like,
[131:18] "Oh, I played this behind closed doors
[131:20] and this, this, and that." And we're
[131:22] like, "Hm, I don't know." This year,
[131:26] like, he said that he played Revolution
[131:28] behind closed doors, and it was like
[131:30] this VR headset,
[131:33] and it was like a VR headset, and it was
[131:36] like the most incredible thing he'd ever
[131:38] seen. You know, he was playing this
[131:39] Mario game. There's like fireballs
[131:42] whizzing past my head and stuff. Yeah.
[131:45] >> And uh yeah, this was
[131:48] and and you know, me and like a few of
[131:50] our other friends at the like really
[131:52] like caught on to him at this point and
[131:54] we're like really egging him on and like
[131:57] trying to see like what kind of like
[131:58] even more ridiculous things we could get
[132:01] him to actually say that were like
[132:02] absolutely not true. Uh so yeah, because
[132:07] >> everyone want to know what is the
[132:08] revolution? We didn't know yet.
[132:11] Well, so remember what leading up to E3
[132:14] there was kind of like there's some not
[132:16] validity to what your friend was saying
[132:18] but at this time
[132:19] >> because like from E3 2004 to 2005 like
[132:23] Nintendo there was a lot of expectations
[132:26] and then you like there was but remember
[132:28] at this time there was a rampant rumor
[132:31] that Nintendo on that VR like spherical
[132:36] headset was the next thing and someone
[132:39] made like this is for AI and all.
[132:41] >> Oh, the the crazy the crazy uh video
[132:44] >> and that's Mario like yes with the Mario
[132:47] video which is kind of similar to what
[132:49] your friend is talking about and I think
[132:51] like a lot of people were running with
[132:53] Nintendo on
[132:54] >> that gave credibility to his
[132:59] before E3 this and this was leading up
[133:01] and I remember months and months uh and
[133:03] at this point I was in my very early
[133:06] stages of being actually in the games
[133:08] industry and I just remember that like
[133:10] that was kind of nipped in the bud kind
[133:12] of early internally. And it's not that I
[133:14] had like great sources or anything, but
[133:16] I just remember that like even if you
[133:17] looked at the whole thing on on a fact
[133:21] sheet, it's like this makes no sense.
[133:23] Like this is not what Nintendo's doing.
[133:26] >> That video was iconic though. Like at
[133:28] the time it looked
[133:30] >> it this like we have to see it on screen
[133:32] right now. that that was the best
[133:35] looking like uh like homemade 3D
[133:39] animation I'd ever seen.
[133:41] >> Way before AI, someone sat down and
[133:43] crafted this. I mean, so now we would
[133:45] praise it. At the time when people saw I
[133:47] was like, this is not real.
[133:49] >> Um, so but when you actually did see the
[133:52] revolution because this I think we all
[133:54] can agree this E3 showing is not of the
[133:57] same caliber as what we just talked
[133:59] about 2004. And I think the only thing
[134:01] they
[134:01] >> I can't even remember what it could have
[134:03] been.
[134:04] >> Uh they showed like Metro
[134:07] >> I guess Twilight Princess was probably
[134:09] >> 10 Dogs was on was on on stage. Actually
[134:12] at this E3 that's when they Reggie
[134:13] pulled out the Game Boy Micro on stage.
[134:16] >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Other pull out
[134:18] >> which I found I found interesting
[134:20] because when you look at the video you
[134:22] you actually see he is in exactly the
[134:25] third room of Zelda Minish Cap, right?
[134:27] You wake up in your bed, you go
[134:28] downstairs, then you you go from
[134:30] downstairs, you go right one more time.
[134:32] There's dialogue, right, with the
[134:34] characters before you can take control.
[134:36] He's there and it was on when he pulls
[134:38] it out of the pocket. So, I'm just
[134:40] trying to imagine before he goes out to
[134:42] do this, he he would have had to have
[134:44] turned on the GBA, button through like
[134:47] walk downstairs, button through a bunch
[134:48] of dialogue, and then just leave Link
[134:50] standing there just to get it ready. And
[134:53] because there's no sleep mode, he would
[134:54] have just had this in his pocket like
[134:58] >> Sure. Why not?
[135:01] >> Well, that battery we said earlier, that
[135:03] battery never dies.
[135:05] >> Yeah,
[135:06] >> exactly. It's just
[135:07] >> I love thinking about weird logistics
[135:10] just in his pocket.
[135:14] >> That's actually really funny. Like, of
[135:16] course it is, but like you don't think
[135:18] about that. Would you say though, John,
[135:21] that like the little mockup of Metroid
[135:24] that they showed for the Revolution was
[135:26] uh indicative of what we got?
[135:30] >> Uh maybe. Uh which one? Where?
[135:33] >> So during this E3 show when they were
[135:35] talking about what was next, the
[135:37] Revolution,
[135:37] >> they showed
[135:38] >> Yeah, they showed Metroid like not
[135:41] Prime, not anything. You saw Samus Aaron
[135:43] and the ship behind her. It was just a
[135:45] tech demo, like a really really short
[135:47] one, but it was interesting. Sounds
[135:49] vaguely alluded that this was what was
[135:52] like this is the capabilities of what's
[135:54] coming next,
[135:55] >> right? But you know this was um
[135:58] >> what what was her name like Cammy
[135:59] something was one of the Nintendo
[136:02] >> uh of America employees Cammy I'm trying
[136:05] to blank our last name but
[136:06] >> Tammy Dunaway or something like that.
[136:08] Yeah, D something sounds familiar, but I
[136:11] remember she very infamously I I think
[136:15] kind of went off script uh you know
[136:17] during this was just an interview. This
[136:19] wasn't like a stage presentation but
[136:21] people were like really trying to press
[136:22] like how much more powerful than the
[136:24] GameCube is the revolution and I think
[136:27] she just you know just like pulled some
[136:30] number out of nowhere just to say
[136:32] something like oh probably like two to
[136:33] three times more powerful. I can't
[136:34] remember exactly what she said, but like
[136:37] this was like the first time I think
[136:38] there was really like alarm bells of
[136:40] like, wait, Nintendo might not be
[136:42] keeping pace with PlayStation and Xbox
[136:44] on the on the power and people were
[136:48] people were so nervous though. People
[136:51] like, but I don't think she was at all
[136:53] supposed to say that at the time. And I
[136:56] don't know if she even if if in her
[136:58] position if she would have really even
[137:00] known yet like if she had really if she
[137:02] would have actually known that much
[137:04] about the hardware and what that what
[137:06] the trajec what Nintendo's focus would
[137:08] be at that point you know and her
[137:11] position I don't know so that was that
[137:13] was infamous but she was right she was
[137:15] right but that was when people started
[137:17] getting like really scared and people
[137:18] were like oh she doesn't know what she's
[137:20] talking about it's actually it's going
[137:21] to be fine you know it's going to be
[137:23] really powerful um but No, she was
[137:25] right. She was right.
[137:27] >> The thing is though, T is if you they
[137:28] showed what the console would look like
[137:30] and it was pretty spot-on.
[137:32] >> If you looked at the size of that box
[137:35] in his hand, like you should logically
[137:37] come to the conclusion that wait, this
[137:39] is not going to be anything like PS3 or
[137:41] 360.
[137:42] >> Yeah. I mean, and but that was all in
[137:46] the discussion at the time, you know,
[137:48] like
[137:48] >> I know I remember
[137:51] we were realizing and like we had a year
[137:55] to come to terms with that before we
[137:57] finally really properly saw what this
[137:59] is.
[138:00] >> Amazingly, and I just noticed this now
[138:02] when we're looking through old video of
[138:04] it, the Nintendo Revolution logo, the
[138:07] O's in Revolution are two discs, right?
[138:11] But the Revo, the first O is a big disc
[138:14] like a DVD and then the second O is a
[138:16] small one like Gamecube disc.
[138:18] >> Okay. Okay.
[138:19] >> Which is very clever.
[138:21] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[138:22] >> I mean, you know, and kind of linking
[138:25] back to this like super cool guns
[138:28] blazing image that Nintendo exerted in
[138:32] 2004. Like Revolution was like a cool
[138:36] name, you know?
[138:38] >> Yeah, it was. Uh, but I I suppose like
[138:41] talking any deeper about that is a
[138:43] conversation for another time when we
[138:45] get to uh E3 2006. Honestly, I'm excited
[138:49] that we've got a whole other episode
[138:52] sometime to go through uh the rest of
[138:55] them. We haven't we haven't blown it all
[138:57] now.
[138:58] >> Yeah, because at that point we start
[139:00] fun man.
[139:01] >> Exactly. Exactly. That and that's when
[139:03] things start to change a lot. So, but
[139:06] yeah, that's uh up through E3 2005.
[139:09] We've covered 10 years of E3 today. It
[139:13] and I feel like we've only just
[139:14] scratched the surface. Like this is such
[139:16] a big topic, but it's fun to talk about
[139:18] and think back, especially for those
[139:20] that maybe didn't experience it. Like
[139:23] it's just like this was where you would
[139:24] start to get information about things.
[139:26] And it was one of the only places where
[139:28] new stuff was actually shown or
[139:31] announced. You didn't have any other
[139:33] means to learn about this. And it was
[139:35] really really exciting. I mean this
[139:37] conversation is just like really dug up
[139:40] like a lot of like just emotions I'd
[139:42] forgotten about of just the excite just
[139:44] the excitement of this and you know how
[139:47] revolutionary it was to start to see
[139:49] video and live video and stuff like
[139:51] that. Like this was so in its infancy
[139:54] and like people just can't understand
[139:56] today like how just the very concept of
[139:59] being able to have access to that stuff
[140:02] visually was just so exciting. Like just
[140:05] it was so exciting.
[140:07] >> It really was. It was so exciting. And
[140:10] there's a lot more to talk about when we
[140:11] get to the next episode on this. We'll
[140:13] figure out when we do it soon. And
[140:14] hopefully you guys enjoyed this. But for
[140:16] now, I want to thank you guys for uh
[140:19] being here with me as we kind of waited
[140:21] through all of this.
[140:23] >> Yeah, of course.
[140:23] >> That was great.
[140:24] >> And it was great to have you back here,
[140:26] Audi. It's been a while, but it's really
[140:28] nice to have you back on.
[140:30] >> I'll be back next time.
[140:32] >> Excellent. Excellent. And hopefully
[140:34] you'll be back next time. If you made it
[140:36] all the way to the end of the show, I
[140:37] want to personally thank you for doing
[140:39] so because it is a long, long show. We
[140:42] talked about a lot today. Uh, but I had
[140:44] fun talking about it and we'll be back
[140:46] in two weeks with the next episode of
[140:48] the DFresher Super Show. See you next
[140:50] time.