---
title: 'DF Retro Super Show #016: E3 Revisited - The First Ten Years'
source: 'https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZLALsXHLJEE'
video_id: 'ZLALsXHLJEE'
date: 2026-06-14
duration_sec: 8464
---

# DF Retro Super Show #016: E3 Revisited - The First Ten Years

> Source: [DF Retro Super Show #016: E3 Revisited - The First Ten Years](https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZLALsXHLJEE)

## Summary

The DF Retro Super Show hosts reminisce about the first ten years of E3 (1995-2005), sharing personal memories and discussing iconic moments, game reveals, and the evolution of the event from a trade show to a public spectacle. They cover the shift from magazine coverage to online video streaming and highlight key presentations from Nintendo, Sony, and Sega.

### Key Points

- **Show Introduction and E3 Nostalgia** [0:12] — The hosts introduce themselves and express nostalgia for E3, which ran for almost 20 years and is now replaced by Summer Games Fest.
- **Ultimate Ghosts 'n Goblins Brutality** [3:03] — Tri discusses the extreme difficulty of Ultimate Ghosts 'n Goblins for PSP, including the need to replay levels multiple times and collect all 33 gold rings to reach the true final boss.
- **PSP Overclocking News** [10:23] — A new solution allows overclocking the PSP beyond 333 MHz, up to 463 MHz, enabling smoother performance in games like OutRun 2 and potentially 60 fps in Ultimate Ghosts 'n Goblins.
- **Castlevania: Circle of the Moon Ported to Mega Drive** [19:38] — A full demo of Castlevania: Circle of the Moon has been ported to the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, retaining original sprites but with a shifted palette and increased field of view.
- **Gemini X: A New Mega Man X Game** [26:37] — A fan-made Mega Man X game called Gemini X was revealed, combining Metroidvania elements with Mega Man X gameplay, featuring a soundtrack by Sean Bo.
- **Pixel FX Morph 2K Scaler** [28:45] — The Pixel FX Morph 2K is a budget-friendly upscaler for retro gaming, priced at $200, targeting 1080p with motion adaptive deinterlacing, competing with the OSSC Pro and RetroTink 5X.
- **Origins of E3** [34:58] — E3 started in 1995 as a trade show for video games, born out of dissatisfaction with CES. It was organized by IDG and became the premier event for game announcements.
- **E3 1995: Sony vs Sega** [38:44] — At E3 1995, Sega launched the Saturn at $399, but Sony countered with the PlayStation at $299, a pivotal moment in console history.
- **E3 1996: Unreal Engine and 3D Revolution** [56:41] — E3 1996 saw the debut of the Unreal Engine, Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot, and Super Mario 64, marking the rise of 3D gaming.
- **E3 1997: Half-Life and Metal Gear Solid** [64:14] — Half-Life was first shown at E3 1997, along with Metal Gear Solid, which impressed with its cinematic trailer.
- **E3 1998: Zelda: Ocarina of Time and More** [72:53] — E3 1998 featured Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Half-Life near-final demo, Metal Gear Solid, Starcraft, and Gran Turismo.
- **E3 1999: Dreamcast and Next-Gen Hype** [73:15] — E3 1999 focused on the Dreamcast, with Sega showcasing Soulcalibur and other titles. PlayStation 2 hype began with early demos.
- **E3 2000: Metal Gear Solid 2 Reveal** [77:52] — The Metal Gear Solid 2 trailer at E3 2000 was a landmark moment, showcasing incredible graphics and gameplay that defined the next generation.
- **E3 2001: Xbox and GameCube Era** [88:06] — E3 2001 introduced the Xbox and GameCube, with Halo (though a poor demo), Dead or Alive 3, and Jack and Daxter making waves.
- **E3 2002: Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 Demo** [99:00] — Doom 3 was a visual showcase at E3 2002. Valve also prepared a Half-Life 2 demo but chose not to show it, releasing the footage years later.
- **E3 2003: Live Streaming Begins** [106:51] — E3 2003 was the first year live streaming of press conferences became more common, with Nintendo showing Resident Evil 4 and the Hookman demo.
- **E3 2004: Nintendo's Legendary Conference** [117:16] — Nintendo's E3 2004 conference is considered iconic, featuring Reggie Fils-Aimé's debut, the reveal of Twilight Princess, and the DS announcement.
- **E3 2005: PS3 and Xbox 360 Reveals** [128:44] — E3 2005 saw the first proper reveals of PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, with Sony's ambitious but misleading demos (e.g., Killzone 2) and Nintendo's Revolution prototype.

### Conclusion

The first ten years of E3 were a golden era of video game announcements, from the birth of 3D gaming to the dawn of HD consoles, creating lasting memories for gamers and industry insiders alike.

## Transcript

My name is John. I'm about taking notes.
I'm about fanning flames. And these guys
are here to talk about games. Yes, it's
the DFresher Super Show and we're
entering into summer. I've got uh DJ
Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince going on
in the background. And we're gonna
reminisce about E3 because I miss it. It
used to happen every year for almost 20
years and now it's gone. But uh in its
place, we have Summer Games Fest, which
isn't quite the same. But we thought
today we would go through and talk about
some of the great moments in E3 history,
our personal experiences with E3, and
generally reflect back on that sort of
period because I think all the
excitement around it is one of the
reasons we probably got into games to
begin with. Uh but first, the cast
making his return after a long exodus.
We have Audi. He feels just like a
purple Pikmin. It's early.
>> I'm ready to boom boom shake the room
with you today. Uh
>> it's good to be back. Yeah, thanks so
much. And what a topic. What a time.
>> What a place.
>> E3, man.
>> We And we shared an E3 together that
we'll get to and it was a very good
time. We have some very good stories to
share that I don't know if we've talked
about before.
>> Uh in brackets at least. Uh there's
probably still stories we can't share
for legal and sexual reasons, but either
try. There's there's things to discuss.
>> But of course, we're not alone. In the
other chair, we have Mark, "My body is
ready." Dles,
>> I I am so impressed with that intro you
did. Like, usually you have to be like,
"Wait, nope. Nope. I want to do it
again." Like, you just, man, you just
went for that one and it's like the best
one. Like, man, wow. You didn't even
write that down.
You know, I was ready, baby. Just Just
like your body. Your Yeah. All All our
bodies are ready. Indeed. Including the
fourth man. Not the third man. The
fourth man. I'm afraid this is not uh
you know, mid90s.
Wo. Here. It's the man himself, Cory
Carlson.
>> Hey, I'm back. Ready to go. Uh, you
know, that little I was absent last
week. No experience with a 007 really.
Uh, so it's it's good to be back talking
about E3 and maybe a little little CES,
>> but of course there is a little CES
action in here. Uh, but before that,
head over to digitalfoundry.net, check
out the Patreon. We really appreciate
the support of you guys making this
podcast possible. And yes, I swear there
will be some more proper DF Retro
episodes coming soon. So, look out for
that. But for now, let's hop into the
news/ what we've been playing section of
the show where we talk about the news
and what we've been playing.
Starting with what Tri's been playing. I
want to talk about this. Ultimate Ghosts
and Goblins for the PSP. Famously
trashed by Jeremy Parish. It created a
nightmare for him as people were very
angry about this. Uh but this game is
extremely controversial, I think,
because it's super hard as you'd expect
from the series, but in some rather
unique ways. And try I can't believe it.
you've actually sat down and you went
through the whole thing and you finished
it. So, this is not the Kai version. The
Kai version is like an overhauled
alternate version that was released in
Japan. This is the original version.
>> Yeah, I played the American release. So,
uh it it it is infamously brutal. Uh but
I still was not prepared for just how
brutal it is. I mean, it's it's the kind
of thing that you're going through it
and you're you're you're like starting
to question if the if you even like this
series like like wait what did I enjoy
these games when I played the other
ones? I can't remember for sure. Uh but
yeah, this uh I I just wanted to talk
about this because it it really was a
uniquely brutal experience that I have
gone through. uh played it over uh four
weeks of Monday backloggery streams uh
which are like four plus hour streams.
So it yeah it it took a lot of time and
effort. Um
kind of what's interesting about how
brutal this game is is that it kind of
lulls you into this sense of security
from time to time because you know
you've got a save system as you would
expect from the PSP. you've got uh the
uh you know checkpoints before every
boss and the bosses are actually all
pretty easy. Uh so there's little things
like that. There are warp stabs. There's
this kind of uh system where things that
you uh need to proceed to the final
boss. Uh, and some other other optional
items that sort of actually do make a a
big difference in playability like um uh
the ability to uh you know uh reduce
your magic costs and uh uh other things
like that. Uh you get uh you can use
flying armor, you can use a shield that
actually let you fly for a while. Like
there's all these little things. It's
like oh this seems nice. This seems
nice. Uh but then you think, okay,
instead of making you replay the whole
game from the beginning, you know, the
the infamous ghosts and goblins loop, uh
that's what the warp stabs are because
you do have to revisit the levels and
collect these gold rings and other
things so you can proceed to the final
boss. And you're like, "Okay, that's a
clever twist." And you go, you fight
Asteroth, as you do, and you still have
to loop the whole game again. And they
take away all your warp stavs. Uh, and
you have to find every single red chest
in the game. You know, those hidden
chests that just, you know, you you jump
past a random trigger point and they
appear. You have to find every single
ring, which I think there's 33 gold
rings in the game. You have to find all
of these things to actually proceed to
the true final boss. And it it's just it
is it's madness. It is madness. That's
just to say nothing of the the normal
ghosts and goblins difficulty. I mean,
even though yes, you get flying armor,
flying shields, uh all these nice
things,
and you end up beating the levels like
at least four times over the course of
finishing the game. It's still it still
continues to be so difficult. Uh, I I
know John, you have more experience with
the Kai version, which I think modified
some things and maybe makes it a little
more approachable, but you still never
finished it.
>> No, I never really did. Uh, it's it's
such a what what a brutal game this is,
right? Like it's just it's exactly like
you said where the redesign kind of is
like a balanced tweak and it plays out
more like the arcade game and it has
like different enemy placements and it
actually has like limited continues and
stuff like that. So it kind of remove
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And it actually, you know, has proper
lives and stuff so it plays out more
like the originals, I guess you could
say. Um, and it's like a you do like a
loop I think to finish it and then you
do the second loop, but it's not like
the whole warp staff stuff. You're not
like walking around and doing all that.
So, it basically just makes it a more
straightforward version of the game.
>> Yeah, like I said, the warp stabs
basically make it so you end up playing
every level at least four times most
likely. It's it's it's insane. Uh, yeah,
>> I do think it's a cool game. It's an
interesting idea. It's just it's very
very brutal. But I mean, the series is
known for that. And I think it's cool
that they tried to do something
different with it. You know, they were
like, "How can we evolve this formula?"
>> Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, Corey, I'm hoping
that when I get around to what was the
new one called, uh, Rebirth or
>> Resurrection.
>> Oh, Resurrection.
>> I I I mean, you it didn't take you that
long to get through that one, right?
>> No, no, no. I think that that one dialed
back a lot of the annoying stuff that
was in
>> was was in uh uh Ultimate, but uh and
and kind of goes back to what is was fun
about the original ones, specifically
the first two, especially the way that
it recycles well, I guess, the first
three. So, it recycles levels from those
games.
>> Basically, I'm glad I did it. You know,
I I get very stubborn about beating
games by the original rules. you know, I
don't like using save states or, you
know, modifications to make them nicer.
You know, I I I'm glad that stuff exists
for people who want it, but there's
always this voice in the back of my head
that's just like, you're not playing it
by the the real vanilla rules of the
game. So, I don't recommend anyone play
through this game the way I did. Uh, but
I am glad I did it, you know.
>> So, the question is, did you did you
play on real PSP hardware? Uh, I ended
up playing on PSTV because so I was
originally going to play on real PSP,
but uh I've taken all of my batteries
out of my PSPs uh out of fear of battery
bloat and I very quickly realized that
it was going to be a problem because uh
just a little bit in in my PSP 3000 just
a little bit of wiggling on that uh
power connector can cause it to the
system to reset. So that's annoying.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. So I ultimately played on PSTV,
but the input lag wasn't too bad. I used
a DualShock 3, you know, uh I had to use
Adrenaline, uh on my hacked PSTV, uh
which can have a good bit of input lag,
but it's better if you use a DualShock 3
instead of a DualShock 4. Um, but the
game is still 30 frames per second,
which if the pace the game moves is not
that terrible. Um, but it was it was an
okay way to play the game, but I I would
have preferred to have played on
original hardware. But yeah, the reason
I mentioned that try is that actually
ties into a second bit of news I wanted
to mention today. Uh from a developer go
note going by M-SID,
a new solution for PSP was released
allowing you to overclock the system way
beyond the previously maximum 333 MHz.
Most systems can now reach 463 MHz, but
I think it's actually possible to go as
high as like 500 something. And
basically this massive increase in clock
speed allows you to overcome performance
in games that had issues. So like now
you can play something like Outrun 2 at
a very smooth 60 instead of an unstable
60 with the normal overclock and like a
horrible 20 to 30 with the stock speeds.
Uh it also means that some games have uh
patches. A lot of the patches were
designed for use on like the emulation,
but you can actually apply them to real
PSP games. And naturally, if you, you
know, normally if you just put the patch
on, you're just un you're just removing
the frame rate cap, right? And that
doesn't necessarily mean your experience
is good. But now you can overclock it so
far. This means we can take a bunch of
games that were previously limited up to
like 60 or even just a stable 30. So
like it's so the this game for instance,
Ultimate Ghouls and Ghost does have a
patch from what I can tell that allows
you to run it at 60. So conceivably with
this overclocked then you should be able
to run it at 60 on the real hardware. My
my fallback solution was actually going
to be PPSSP,
but uh it's interesting you Yeah, it's
interesting you bring up the emulation
though because uh this was the first
time I mean I've not used PSPsPP
super extensively, but this was the
first time I actually ran into a visual
glitch that I could not get rid of.
Whoa.
>> Um where the bloom effect like gets
really glitchy uh in Ultimate Ghost and
Goblins. You can see it from the very
first level. Anytime there's like an
enemy that has like a bloom effect and
the background like also does a bloom
effect that like snaps on off it's
combat. Uh and I could not figure out
how to get rid of it. It also happened
for you know my friend Jumble who was
playing it alongside me on the back
lotteryy streams. Um
he he he was like what? I don't see the
problem. And I pointed out and he's like
oh okay I don't care. I'm like no I will
not play this game this way. So, I spent
a bunch of time getting it running on my
hacked PSTV instead. Uh, just so I
wouldn't have to deal with that issue.
If anyone knows how to get rid of that
bloom glitch in PPSSP in Ultimate Ghost
and Goblins, please tell me because I'm
very
>> I love how you very curious.
>> Spell it out every time
>> because it would be it would be uh cool
to play this with with a with a uh 60fps
agree hack. Uh, and I would be curious
to see that running on original hardware
or uh can you use this uh mod on PSTV or
VA? Do you know, John? Or
>> I don't know cuz to use these patches
involves there's like an application I
forget what it's called that you use on
a custom firmware system that allows you
to like apply patches to games. And if
you can do that on the PSP side of the
PSTV, then it should work,
>> right? I mean, in Adrenaline, right?
It's like a whole PSP,
>> right? So, it should technically be
possible, I would imagine. And who
knows? I mean, maybe the PSTV can be
overclocked like crazy high.
>> Yeah,
>> because it's like
>> it already has been, I think, to some
extent for uh VA games on there.
>> Yeah. And just by default, by the way,
playing PSP games on a VA, it does run
faster than a stock VA.
>> Oh, I didn't know that.
>> Yeah. Like I noticed
>> Oh, you mean a stock PSP?
>> Sorry. A stock PSP, right? So, like you
play Maverick Hunter X for instance, it
always hits that's a 60 FPS game, but
whenever the boss shows up, there's
always a lot of slowdown for that logo
crawl. But on a PS Vita, it just
naturally runs at full speed. It also
runs at full speed on a normal 333
overclocked VA. It's um so it was always
just like limited by the hardware.
>> I did not know that. Interesting. To be
honest, I've never really been clear on
what the backwards compatibility
mechanism for PSP on VA is. Like I don't
know if it's hardware emulation quasi
emulation. I've never known.
>> It's I I actually forget. I may have
known at some point, but I don't
remember off the top of my head.
>> I just know that the resolution they
picked for VA is exactly four times the
pixel count, so everything would scale
super cleanly, which is
>> two on X-axis. Yeah.
>> Yep. Which was a good idea. So
>> Oh, yeah.
>> All right. Anyway,
>> wait. Well, I do want to ask really
quick. I want to ask Tri if he would
rate this game higher than a two out of
10.
Oh. Uh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean,
I think I would give it
>> a three.
>> I'd probably give it a five.
>> Okay.
>> Out of 10.
>> Out of 10.
>> Okay. Not out of 50.
>> Not out of 50. No.
>> So, 2.5 out of five.
>> Yeah.
>> Slight slightly better.
>> That's funny.
>> Solid five. Yeah.
>> I remember review.
>> Yeah. I mean, and Jeremy got a lot of
[ __ ] for it. I think unfairly so, cuz
people aren't able to understand that
everybody has different opinions on
stuff. Uh, but either way, I like that
game, but I do I did prefer the Mega Man
remakes they did for PSP. I love
Maverick Hunter X or Irregular Hunter X
and Rockman Rockman. Those are freaking
great.
>> The voice acting in Maverick Hunter X in
the US version is hilarious. X is so
intense. He's He just screams every
single line pretty much.
>> Looks like you've gone maverick.
>> Oh, dude. I need to check that.
>> You're insane.
>> You're insane.
>> I I do enjoy those Mega Man games on PSP
a whole heck of a lot.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, they're great. They're great.
>> I can understand why why uh the Mega Man
one remake was not Mega Man Powered Up
didn't sell very well. I mean, I think
that for people that
>> were looking for Mega Man games, seeing
something that looked like that was
probably not very uh appealing, but I
thought it was great. It was very fun.
It was like, you know, like like a
chibiized uh kid version of it.
>> Yeah.
>> Today, we'll probably
>> Yes. Yeah.
>> Can Can we just pivot to doing a PSP
episode?
Uh, we need
>> I'm all I'm on a I'm all in a P I'm all
in a PSP mood now. I'm joking. Of
course,
>> I'm not because I have a bloated
Yesterday I was dealing with my battery
and it's bloated. So, uh I don't I can't
play it right now.
>> Uh which frustrates me because it it's
only a year since I changed it out.
>> So,
>> check those lithium ion batteries,
everybody.
>> That's a new battery that you bought.
>> Yeah, it's a third party one though, so
I'm I'm suspecting something to do with
that.
>> That's crazy. Sitting in a warehouse for
10 years. I I really need I really need
to buy some kind of replacement battery
for my PSP. Maybe people in the comments
can give us some uh some some good links
to good ones because uh it it is
difficult to play my PSP without battery
in it because I am so nervous about
>> wiggling that power adapter. And
>> man, I I have never had a swollen
battery on any of my PSPs, including my
launch day one. They're perfect. They
still work.
>> People just like overwhelmingly
recommend that you take them out as a
precaution.
>> No. Yeah, I agree. It's just I'm I'm
surprised because like they all still
work. Uh
>> mine did too when I took them out, but I
I
>> The system from that era that impresses
me the most though is the the Game Boy
Micro.
>> Yeah,
>> cuz like
>> I haven't used the Micro that much in a
long time because it's so small, right?
That's the whole thing. But uh I turned
mine on in the last month because I saw
it in a drawer. I haven't charged it in
like 10 years. It still turns on.
>> Yeah. I I I literally
>> How?
>> I had literally never even charged mine
until maybe like six years ago.
>> Because I like I bought it more as like
a collector's item just because I at
that time I had every Game Boy. I'm
like, "Okay, I'm going to buy the
Famicom
>> uh Game Boy Micro. I used it in a couple
of videos but never like really played
it. And then I was like setting up like
a Game Boy charging station. I'm like I
literally don't even know what power
adapter goes on this. I don't recognize
this port. And then I found the adapter
and it still had the the zip uh the the
like the twist tie on it. I'm like I
literally never charged this thing and
it just
>> and the DS the uh well at least the DS
uh light definitely had a battery that
just lasted forever. I think we're gonna
see a huge epidemic though in the next
10 years where people's batteries are
just going to bulge like they're gonna
find their old systems in a drawer and
it's just gonna be like cracked open and
stuff from the the battery experience.
>> Yeah, that's a shame, man. I I
>> controllers, all kinds of stuff is going
to happen with
>> Oh boy. Yep. But anyway, we'll get to
that once our controllers start
exploding. But for now, let's move on to
the next bit of of news. Uh, one that
really excited me as well, Castlevania
Circle of the Moon is being ported to
the Sega Genesis Mega Drive and there's
a full demo out. That's the entire first
area of that game. We talked about this
on our GBA launch episode. This was the
launch Castlevania for Game Boy Advance.
And yeah, it now is like it's crazy.
It's really cool to see. And it's a
weird combo because they haven't really
they tried very closely or they tried
very hard to retain the original art,
right? So all the sprites, background
ties, it's all derived from GBA, but
obviously the pallet's been shifted to
work in the Mega Drive, but uh they've
kept the pixel size, which basically
means now it just increases the field of
view that you see. The original game is
more widescreen with that with that sort
of GBA aspect ratio and now it's like
proper 4x3 which basically means you see
more of the game world above and below.
Uh but other than that like it feels
like surprisingly faithful. Like yes
fewer colors. You can certainly tell
that. But I feel like they did a good
job with the conversion and the
soundtrack conversion is awesome. It
sounds really good on that sound chip.
It's a really nice version of the music.
I have not tried this yet, but I I I'm
really curious about how it was ported
technically because if you're increasing
the field of view like you know are are
they actually like relying on the
original game code underneath it and
>> I don't know does that not create
>> problem being rebuilt with like SGDK
>> or something like that. So,
>> but
>> yeah, probably
>> if you look at that first area like that
first cut scene, right?
>> You you see the top is like framed like
the Game Boy Advance screen, but you
actually see the brick area below the
floor, which is where you're going to
drop to next, but it's almost like, you
know, you're seeing what you shouldn't
see.
>> Yeah.
>> But it works. It works. Okay.
>> Uh it's cool seeing these ports though
to the uh the Mega Drive or Genesis. Uh
because recently there was a um I think
this has been in work in the works for a
while, but there was a Rondo of Blood
port also to the Mega Drive,
>> right?
>> And the Symphony of the Night.
>> Um
>> yeah,
>> and yeah, there's plenty of like ports
being done that we've seen like one
level demos of, so hopefully some of
them will come to full fruition.
>> I wonder what it is about Castlevania
games that people just want to put those
on the Genesis or Mega Drive. I mean,
the Mega Drive is just popular to work
on. And I do think part of it, people
love the system, but I do think part of
it is that because it's a Motorola uh
68,000based system. It's just like that
was such a prolific CPU and it's one
that people like working with that I
think it makes it like a really great
candidate for just, you know, porting
stuff. Plus, SGDK
uh is awesome and it's really open it's
opened the door to like just like making
it easy to actually develop games for
the system. I mean even stuff like
Earthon I think uses it, right?
>> Yeah. which
>> so
>> so like old school seg guys guys that
worked on this hardware are still like
using it and embracing it and it is just
like a development environment for the
Mega Drive that handles a lot of the
annoying stuff that you might have
otherwise had to deal with from back
then. So I think that is just awesome.
Yeah, it's a question that comes up a
lot with the aftermarket stuff is why
there's so much focus on Mega Drive. And
it really just comes down to
documentation and available tools
because Super Nintendo is getting more
focus now, but for many years, uh, you
did see a few like um that fighting
game, which I forget, Undead Something,
and a few others. Um, but they're kind
of
>> Undead Nights or something. Yeah, Un
Nightsights I think it was, which was
from formers SNK people, but it runs
like garbage.
>> Um, and just uh it was a much more of a
limited market for the Super Nintendo.
And it really just came down to proper
documentation and especially than tools,
which the Mega Drive has had.
>> Right. Right. Right.
>> A 10-year run ahead of Super Nintendo.
>> It it does. Exactly. It's actually
that's one another one to mention real
quick is uh Maldita
>> Castillia.
that that awesome game that's getting an
official Mega Drive version and
including a cart release. They actually
released a demo just recently
>> and it's really good. Right.
>> Is that
>> is that Chris Castillia from Loco?
>> Correct. It's that game, but it's
getting an actual Mega Drive port. So
again, it's like
>> it's just cool as heck to see this
stuff. And I I love that the system
remains so vibrant.
>> And I do hope that Super NES starts to
catch up. And also PC Engine like I mean
there is some PC Engine homebrew and we
have some of it but it's pretty rare. I
feel like people don't make much for the
PC Engine.
>> Yeah, it was FX FX unit Yuki came out.
Yep. And then the Jesse K Casper or
something like the Indiana Jones like
girl game.
>> Um
>> and I mean even as we record this, we
just got an official announcement of
Cuphead coming to Master System,
>> right? So, I mean, like it's weird to
see like these things officially coming
back
>> uh on release systems, but I love it. I
mean, I' I've been collecting
aftermarket stuff since early 2010s, if
not a little bit before.
>> Um, so for me, this is good news.
>> And apparently, Cuphead is actually
being developed and assembly.
which uh a lot you know as I mentioned
SGDK is super cool but and it has opened
the door to making it easier to work on
the system but if you go back like 10
years you have something like Matt
Phillips Tanglewood
>> which he actually also did 100% like
assembly build so like that was all like
his own code figuring out the the system
from scratch.
>> Yeah.
>> Which was really like on a real
development yet.
>> Yeah. Yeah. He actually used like real
Sega development hardware to make it and
everything like he really did it the old
school pretty hard mode way I would say
especially given that there's just not a
lot of people that do it these days but
SGDK has definitely helped a lot. So
>> yeah, even Randy Lyndon came back for
Doom Super Nintendo and that was done
with some of that dev environment on
AmIgga. Uh so he went back u
>> to do it the old school way. So you
could still do that. Uh which yeah is
also really impressive and cool.
>> Well, it's fun to be able to go to those
old development environments and
probably use everything that you've
learned since. You know, it's very much
the the you know, if I knew then what I
know now
>> type scenario.
>> Exactly. All right. Um next up, actually
connecting back to our conversation from
earlier about Maverick Hunter X. You
know, are you insane? Well, somebody
wasn't saying because they decided to
make a new Mega Man X game without
Capcom and it's called Gemini X and it
was revealed this week and our good
friend Sean Bo actually did the
soundtrack for it. Y
>> and uh I think this looks mostly really
cool except for the run cycle
like like I feel like he's he's like
he's like bent over and he's like
>> it's very uh it's very robotic in a way
which I guess uh kind of makes sense but
the rest of his movements are much more
dynamic. So,
>> compare compared to raw actual like Mega
Man X games. I think the animation needs
more det.
But because everything else
aesthetically looks freaking great. Like
I love the visual design, of course, the
music, you know, everything they're
going for here. It's like about 90% of
the way to what I want from like a
spiritual uh Mega Man X follow-up,
right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. This looks pretty cool.
>> Yeah. Uh Comey Games have been around
for a while. plus Julian Spilani's
company up in Toronto. Uh
>> oh, cool.
>> Hence why Jean Bo is attached to it.
>> Uh I really uh I got to see this a while
ago, but it's finally announced. Uh so
you all should go wishlist it. Uh it's a
little bit a ways out, so I think some
of our concerns can probably be answered
by the time it comes out. I think the
main character is definitely the thing I
would point out needing a little bit
more work. Um, but it's an interesting
concept of combining Metroid Vania with
Mega Man X. Uh, you've kind of seen
hints of it in actual Mega Man game,
Mega Man X games in the past, right?
>> But this one's kind of fully fulfilling
that merge.
>> So, uh, I'm interested in seeing where
this game goes.
>> Does visually look great. I love like
the use of color and everything in it.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm looking at it on on Steam. I I I've
literally just now wishlisted it on the
steering
>> and you should too.
Looking good. Looking good. But there's
one more topic before we get to the meat
of the show. Uh this is one that I
haven't gotten one to check out yet, but
try, you've been looking at the Pixel
Effects Morph 2K lately, and I think Bob
put up something on this already from
Retro RGB.
>> Yeah. Um, and basically the pitch here
is this is from Pixel FX. It's like a
modern scaler that's for targeting
1080p, but it's sold at a much much
lower price than the other, you know,
scaler options out there right now,
including the the bigger morph and of
course the RetroTink 4K. So, as a budget
option try, how do you feel about this?
>> Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, I think
ultimately a a product is only as good
as its price, right? And when you see
what the price is, which is uh $200,
uh I think it makes a lot of sense
because it does fit in neatly into a
place that uh segment of the market
that's not really served. uh because
this is the lowest priced
uh kind of uh scaler that's designed for
gaming from the ground up that includes
motion adaptive D interlacing. Um you
know because if you go down to say the
OSSC the original OSSC that's still like
mid $100ish
probably 130 to 150 160 depending on
what model you buy. uh which is a
fantastic option if you're not really
playing any uh interlaced content. Uh I
mean that that thing still looks so
good. Every time I try it out again I'm
like man I forgot how good this thing
is. Um and then you know of course
there's the Retro Tink 2X options. I I'm
a big proponent of the 2x mini for
people who just use composite or Svideo.
Great option for people who just want to
play an unmodified uh N64 for instance.
Um, but then if you look at the um the
other mid-range options, I mean, you
know, let's make no mistake, the
RetroTink 4K Pro is still the best of
the best and the 4K CE is uh not too
many steps down from that as well. Um,
but if you look at say at the tier of
product that the the Morph 2K is
competing with, it's competing more with
the OSSC Pro and the RetroTink 5X. Um,
and those are both over $300 and this is
$200. So
>> 5X just got an update, too, so it's
still supported.
>> Oh, yeah. I mean, the 5X is a fantastic
product. And to be honest, I I have not
>> uh spent quite enough time with this yet
to really assess like how close it is to
the current state of the 5X. And to be
honest, I've not spent enough time with
the current firmware of the 5X to really
assess because my myQi does go insane on
keeping those things up to date. Um, but
even if this doesn't end up quite
matching the 5X, the fact of the matter
is it's a whole lot cheaper and does
probably most of what most people would
want out of it. And I haven't really
spent any time looking at like the CRT
effects and stuff. You know, obviously
at 1080p you're not going to be getting
quite as high fidelity on that stuff,
but it can still look good. Um, and I I
think this can go up to 1200p and and
maybe 1440p.
I think it does 1440p as well. So, just
like the 5X, the 5X does that as well.
And I I believe the OSSC Pro does as
well. Um, but you know, the OSSC Pro
much more sort of specialist enthusiast
device if you really want to kind of get
into the nuts and bolts of the sampling
and upscaling and uh it has its add-on
boards and stuff like that.
>> Well, that's the thing. The the uh the
OSSC Pro is kind of becoming like the
deacto downscaling Yeah. device.
>> Yeah. And so this however from from what
I've used of it, it's like shockingly
simple. uh you know if you just want to
like set it and go. I mean, you know, it
just automatically
samples correctly for uh you know, the
system you've plugged into it. Uh you
can hit the red button to do an autocrop
that, you know, fills the screen larger.
Um yeah, so uh I'll I'll make some
comparisons for Corey, but I I think
that price point is very powerful. um
you know they they they clearly saw that
okay here is a price point that is that
market is not being met. You know it's
kind of funny to think like we're you
know
>> people would have maybe turned their
noses up at uh $200 upscaling a few
years ago but now like uh original
hardware retro gaming is starting to
seem like the more affordable hobby
compared to modern consoles and modern
PC gaming. Uh, so yeah, I think it's
it's just super cool to see um products,
new electronics being able to be
introduced at what feels like a very
reasonable price. So, I I'm looking
forward to putting more time into this.
I want to do a video on my life and
gaming that will be uh kind of looking
at some of the other alternatives uh
that that have come up uh in the
intervene years since we've really kind
of looked at some of the more mid-range
stuff. Um so uh so yeah, I mean I I'm
just I'm just really happy to see a
product being offered at that price
point. I think that's the most important
thing. And from what I've tried so far,
uh, it does it it's it does the job it
needs to do, uh, for a $200 product and
and then some, honestly. So, um, it's
great. Really, really cool. All right,
with that, we've cleared the news and
it's time to move on to our historical
E3 segment. So, get ready, grab yourself
uh a snack, and pretend that we're about
to have a the best press conference
you've ever seen or not, but we're
getting to it anyway. So, we'll be right
back.
early 95 uh there was a time where I
subscribed to a magazine called
Electronic Entertainment. It was E2
Electronic Entertainment because it was
those two words together. And it wasn't
until shortly after that I started
reading about something called E3 and I
was like, wait, is this related to this
magazine? Like what's going on? But no,
it's an event. And uh even way back in
the middle of 1995
via the power of magazines,
I was reading up on the things that were
happening at E3 because E3 was the big
show for video games. It ran from 1995
until I guess roughly 20
21ish. like was it there was like an
online version at one point I think
during the pandemic
>> but either way it has died off. I would
say the final E3 was 2019. That was
>> I mean that was the final real one.
Yeah,
>> right. Yeah. Which we were at.
>> Yeah. We were at the tail end.
>> Exactly. But before we talk about about
that stuff and our experiences and
different impressions and memories of
E3, it is worth mentioning quickly like
where it came from, right? Because
before E3 1995, there was CES. There
still is CES today, the Consumer
Electronics Show. This is where
companies around the world come to show
off the latest electronics, gadgets, and
now like everything AI powered because
why not?
>> Uh there's a lot of that happening. But
back in the early 90s, this was kind of
like the one of the only places where
Nintendo and Sega and other game
companies could really show off their
new wares. But from what we understand,
they didn't feel that they were being
treated well. Often relegated to like
outside areas, tents, you know,
basically spots within the convention
that were less than optimal compared to
what everybody else was getting.
>> Video games weren't cool.
>> No, exactly. I think Sega even ran its
own show a couple years somewhere in
there. And it just it wasn't like there
was no real American or English-speaking
game show uh that was targeting um you
know fans of of video games, right? I I
don't know. Tokyo game show might have
already been happening. Yeah, that was
definitely that was
>> there was there was definitely shows in
Japan happening in the 80s 90s but
elsewhere not so much.
>> Uh but from what I understand one of the
guys from GamePro, I think Pat Frell,
uh who was part of the IDG group, which
also might have been the group that
published the electronic entertainment
magazine.
Um if I maybe not I what I can't. Yeah,
it was IDG. It was IDG. So there's
actually weirdly enough a relationship
there directly.
And those guys basically worked together
to start the show. And this happened in
95 when CES was actually going to run a
second show in Chicago in the summer.
And they were kind of like giving
publishers a choice like do you want to
come to CES or do you want to come to
E3? And eventually, I guess for whatever
reason, uh the guys in charge of CES
gave it up because Nintendo and other
companies were going to go with CES
while Sega and others were were going
with E3. So, it was split. But when CES
canled that show, everybody went ahead
and invested money and effort into E3.
And we got E3 1995, which happened at
the LA Convention Center during its
first year. And E3 1995, I think we can
all agree, was a pretty huge one. I at
the time I only read about this stuff in
magazines. We've since seen a lot of
footage,
>> but this was the year where Sony and
Sega basically brought their next
generation consoles to the table in
North America. They'd already launched
in Japan back in '94, right? But Sega
came to the show and launched the
Saturn, right? This is that famous
incident where yeah, Tom Kolinsky got up
and said, "Hey, the Saturn's out right
now."
>> And um
it didn't go well. Needless to say, they
did not supply all their partners with
it with enough units and there wasn't
enough software at launch. It was
considered a big mistake and I think it
was sold for $399. And then famously,
Sony comes to their press conference.
They got Steve Race up there talking
about it. He just gets up to the mic and
says $299. Yeah,
>> that's the price. And then mic drop,
right? and that the rest is history.
>> But there's so much more that happened
at E3 beyond that, including a lot of
Atari Jaguar stuff,
>> but also like 32X and like basically
everything you could imagine I would say
like from video games at this time and
it was a crazy time was happening at
this show. So obviously I mean Nintendo
was just bringing their wares, right?
Like Killer Instinct Super NES, there's
Donkey Kong Country 2. I think Secret of
Evermore was there from Square. Uh
Earthbound I think was represented a
bunch of Game Boy games. You know, they
had their their their wares and I think
there may have been some teasing of what
they wanted to do with Ultra 64,
>> but this was not yet the year of that.
Um meanwhile, I know Jaguar was there in
a big way. I think Audi, you've you've
probably seen a lot of this footage, but
there is like hours of footage out there
of like everything Jaguar, right?
>> Yeah. It's kind of interesting to see
just how much because when did that even
I think it had been out on the market
for a bit, but it was kind of like a
second wind for them, right?
>> Yeah. Late 93 maybe when it came out.
>> So this is kind of like the last bastion
of Atari trying to get this thing across
and what a year to do it because you
have all these like you have 3Dio still
there as well, but you have like
PlayStation Saturn right around the wing
and it's just like there there's just no
hope for it. It's It's like watching
like, you know, Glendale Archives but in
video game form when you see like the
Jaguar floor at E3. Uh it's just very
eerie and kind of sad. Uh but it's also
very fittingly Jaguar. I wouldn't want
it any other way. Um
>> do the math. Do the math.
>> Yeah, I did the math. It's zero.
So stubber.
>> Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I think that would
have been the year there was a fair
number of games shown there that never
came out, including like I think that's
where Rayman 32X was spotted at one
point.
>> Um
>> Oh, was that where what was the one
there was a like Thea Realm Fighters?
Yeah.
>> For Jaguar. Was that shown there?
Because I feel like there was prototypes
of stuff that that never came out that
were shown at the show as well.
>> So the prototypes are now out. Uh thanks
to Nick, our friend. uh who's always at
JagFest. So, there's two prototypes of
the realm fighters. For those who aren't
aware of it, it is basically a digitized
fighter with the original cast from
Mortal Kombat 1 and two or some of them
uh like Pacina and Hung and those guys.
So, uh that was shown off there. Uh and
based on the prototype we do have, I
don't think it would have lit the Jaguar
world on fire. Uh but um nonetheless,
>> maybe in the negative negative sense.
>> Yeah, maybe. Uh for the Jaguar is an
interesting and somewhat technically
uh goodlooking game. Uh but nonetheless,
it was not what people wanted. Uh well,
they didn't want a Jaguar, so I guess
that's kind of the issue at hand to
begin with. So,
but that was shown off there. Another
thing that was shown off audio and I
don't know maybe you guys remember this
but uh this was the year that Williams
Entertainment and I guess Midway kind of
like started to create their own ports
and publish their own games including
Mortal Kombat 3 for PlayStation which
was not done by a claim, right?
>> But at E3 that year they had multiple
stage shows where they actually had
performers come out on the stage
representing they had Mortal Kombat
characters. They had I think Doom
>> Yep.
>> related stuff happening. Wow.
>> It was like a a whole event, right? And
it's just it's hilarious. They're just
like, "Oh, Mortal Kombat 3." And then
this like stone door opens up and like
uh they like should run out and it's
like uh Liu Kang uh Jax and maybe Sony
Blade.
>> Sonia. Yeah, I think it's I think it is
Carrie Hoskins actually.
>> Oh, it's actually her. Okay. I think so
because this was uh around the time
where the MK live tour or live show was
going on with them. I think it's the
same actors that's on that live show at
E3.
>> Oh,
>> so it's kind of like an extension of
>> what they were doing there. It's on
YouTube where you can see like they did
a TV presentation on it and
>> it's it's very hokey but also fantastic.
>> Yeah. You know, it's it's interesting to
me to think about, you know, having all
that kind of show pizzazz going on and
bringing in these people to perform and
stuff when ultimately this is, you know,
before the era of people being able to
watch this stuff live. You know, they're
they're mostly uh for journalists,
right? So, like who are they really
benefiting from all the money
>> spent on this stuff at this time? I'm
just curious.
>> Not correct, Try.
>> Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know.
That's why I'm asking. I'm curious like
what what was the benefit?
>> The I would say the main purpose of the
show back then was actually for retail
and like sellers and other customers,
right? It was like a direct
communication line to everybody that
would be purchasing the products for
their stores and stocking this stuff.
Right. Exactly. Yes. Journal journalists
were there, but it was a trade show
first and foremost. And these guys were
there to be like, "Hey, Sears or
Walmart,
buy our buy our stuff. It's the best."
You know, and so they put on big flashy
shows for that. Right. I see.
>> You can actually trace that.
>> You can trace that sort of back to the
American film market uh shows that were
going on, which has been going on since
the 70s, I think. And because you have a
lot of international investors as well
as wholesalers and such and it is kind
of part of like they're coming from
overseas with a lot of money and a lot
of customers and they're seeing the
great big American spectacle and that's
kind of where and you American film
market did that exact same thing for a
lot like Canon films and all those kind
of companies you've heard of of like the
be movie genre. A lot of them would do
the same for movies. So E3 was just kind
of like an extension of that and that's
kind of why you're having the BOF babes
eventually. I think Boo Babes was even a
thing by this point.
>> Well, they were at CES.
>> They were at CS. They were in, you know,
cosplayers and stuff were in Tokyo uh in
the mid 80s when the arcade uh trade
shows were going on. So it's not a new
concept or anything, but that that is
kind of prevalent uh through all of the
markets, not just video games.
>> Yeah. So just you're just woo in the
retailers.
>> Yeah,
>> exactly.
>> And that so
>> And it worked. It worked.
>> Yeah, it absolutely did work. And
that's, you know, that's kind of how it
started off.
>> Was this the same show where Killer
Instinct had like their stage show with
the dancers and stuff?
>> That's possible because I know Killer
Instinct was a big Super NES title that
year,
>> right?
>> So
>> that's on YouTube as well.
>> Yeah, there's there's a lot of stuff out
there thankfully. Some other things that
happened that that event um the virtual
boy was shown off again.
>> Yeah.
>> Um was it out yet? I can't remember when
that actually launched.
>> I think it was the summer.
>> So this this would have been
>> kind of like the last
>> Okay. This would have been Nintendo's
like major like push to launch this new
system, right? They they did tease Ultra
64 at the show, but Virtual Boy was like
their new machine. And I guess this
would have been the show to have it at.
And that's also something where I guess
they would need to convince retailers to
go for it. So having hands-on demo units
of this thing was really important, but
it was there. Uh Sony showed off stuff
like Ridgeraer. I think Toshinden was
there. Uh NBA Jam TE was in there. Few
other games like that. And it I think it
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sony made a big splash
there. Uh, Sega of course had stuff like
Panzer Dragoon on display, Virtue of
Fighter, other games like that. I think
I think Resident Evil was at least
mentioned as in like this is something
like in Capcom's like lineup coming at
some point, but I don't think it was
shown yet.
And I think uh even stuff like Turo was
shown or at least referenced as like
this is a thing that's in development
for the future because this wasn't the
first year did did not focus on N64 yet
because uh and let let's let's look at
this. Let's kind of break this up. I
want to look at first at E395 through
2000 and this kind of period and then
we'll do like you know 2001 on to like
2005ish and then the period after that
kind of
>> before even going into that did you all
discover this through magazines or like
were you all aware of this in 95? Oh, it
was definitely uh you know, I didn't
know about E3 in 95, I guess, but you
know, I because CES was still kind of a
thing at that point
>> because
>> at least there was the two two a year at
that point.
>> I definitely had heard some news that
must have surely come out of E3, but I
was only, you know, I had only just
gotten a Super Nintendo for Christmas
94. And before that, I only had NES and
Game Boy, so I didn't have like the most
current hottest stuff. Uh, and so I
wasn't really following new games until
pretty much this year actually. Like I
was like, this was the year that I was
starting to be like, I am looking
forward to what's coming next. But I
missed E3. I wasn't really reading G
game magazines regularly yet. I didn't
have any subscriptions. I actually, you
know, I know this is after the good era
of Nintendo Power, but I got a Nintendo
Power subscription toward the end of 96.
So the first time I was really aware of
E3 would have been 97 where they were
actually in Atlanta for two years. So I
was under this impression for a number
of years that oh this is a show in
Atlanta. This is on the East Coast. Like
this seemed kind of accessible to me.
Like I kind of wanted to see if I could
go. Um but then it was years later I
realized like oh they was only there for
two years. It's interesting when you say
accessible because that was going to be
kind of like the little thing I was
going to share here was like for me I
did discover this as it was, you know,
in the magazines in 95 because I had EGM
at GamePro. I subscribed to them and
I've talked about it before on the show
that like that kind of opened my eyes to
so much stuff in the US that I just
couldn't even dream of having because it
was never released here and [ __ ] like
this. But for me, I had grown up with
the games market in Leipig. I never
went, but in Germany there used to be
like this big games market for
Commodore, Amigga, PC games, some
console as well, but that was kind of
like a big show that was always noted in
Commodore format and stuff like that.
Uh, and that seemed super accessible to
me. So, I was like, well, one day I can
go see new Commodore games, I'm sure, in
person. And then, you know, uh, they
didn't last long enough for that. Uh, I
did go to the Leipig show eventually,
but not uh, in that era. But for me, the
idea of even going to E3, especially as
it grew from 95 and upwards to what
we're going to talk about, that seemed
complete inaccessible. And I, you know,
I only dreamt of going, uh, especially
as they started like live streaming them
and whatnot. So, uh, it's interesting
that you say that felt accessible
because for a European like myself, it
was completely inaccessible. Well, and
there were ways to get like um uh some
sort of like underage like press badge
or something like that because I I wrote
for a a website uh you know in my
teenage years back then. Uh it was N64
Code Palace and then later Techno
Gaming. No one has ever heard of them.
Uh but uh the the uh the guy that ran
that site, he was actually a year or two
younger than me, I think. I think a year
younger than me and he did go to E3 a
few years actually made some connections
like he had like um uh connections with
Ubisoft and stuff like that that he
built up going to E3 just as like a
13-year-old kid and um we were actually
able to get like we were obviously very
very very low on their list but we did
get like review copies of like PS1 and
N64 and Dreamcast games and stuff. Uh so
uh that was something that you were even
even someone who's like a kid running a
fan site uh in those days could actually
get into E3. Um but I I think shortly
after he went to those shows they you
know it no one under I don't remember
what the age was but uh I think you had
to be like 18 or older or something to
get in. Maybe 16 or older. I'm not sure
but yeah it kind of became inaccessible
for teenagers uh for for a time there.
though.
>> Indeed. Indeed. And actually I think
about E3 like this period from 95 to
maybe 98 those first three or four years
whatever that was the year where E3 for
me was viewed through magazines
exclusively completely.
>> And then once we got to 1999 I believe
that's when we started to actually be
able to experience it in video to a very
limited degree. Well, I remember even 90
at the very least 98 if not 97. I
remember I distinctly remember uh
downloading videos of like Ocarina of
Time because I I I will never forget
that like I get this downloading I go
mow I go mow the lawn and it is still
downloading and it's you know this tiny
crappy quality video but you know
uh modems back then at least what we had
uh man it took it took so long to
download those videos. Uh, but I
remember watching the like just this
tiny little crappy video of the forest
temple and other Ocarina of Times
videos. So, it had to have been at least
97 or 98 with some some video uploads to
I don't know IGN64 and stuff like that
probably.
>> Actually, now that you mention it, they
first showed it in like December 95 at
Shina Kai, right? And I actually have
these vague memories of seeing very
early like there's very simple videos of
it running when I was still in grade
school because I watched it in the
underground library at the grade school.
This would have been 95 or early 96. So
I guess there was there were ways to get
some very limited videos. I think
sometimes it actually came from like
magazine discs as well.
>> Yeah, I was gonna say PlayStation demo
discs here. Some the thing about it
though because we're going over now this
stuff, but it's like at that time those
clips were not highlighted so much as
like an E3 thing. It was much more just
like you're talking about like Arena
Time and whatnot. It was just like
people were s like trying to source
that. I think when E3 became more like
it's E3 time and now you can download
and check out the stuff as an event was
98. Uh that's at least how I remember
it.
>> Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty sure this stuff
was going on like concurrent when I was
downloading that those videos, but it
could have also been stuff from Spacew
World. I mean, you know, I I'm not 100%
positive, but but I do know that
certainly before at least before Ocarina
of Time came out, which would have been
late 98, that, you know, I was very much
involved with like seeking out uh videos
of games I was excited about that were
shown at these shows, whether it was E3
or Tokyo Game Show or Spacew World,
whatever. Oh, one other thing I didn't
mention that was shown at E3 1995, and I
did see this in the magazine was the
Panasonic M2.
>> Yeah, I note the M2 when I mentioned
>> they were they this just shows how much
stuff was at the first E3.
>> And I remember specifically the
screenshot in the magazine that I read
showed it was like a cow standing next
to a fence and they were showing off
bilinear filtering by showing them
standing next to the fence. In one shot
it was super pixelated and the other it
was super smooth. They're like this is
what bilinear filtering can do. And I
was like, "Huh?"
>> I remember m Edge had like a huge roll
out of information on the M2 and I was
so I was so into D from Kenji that I was
I was hyped for it
>> which was also shown at E3.
>> I think like video game esoterica
I think he has like those demos like he
actually physically has
>> Okay.
>> He has them. So, and maybe one day when
we do like an episode about this, we can
invite him on.
>> So, yeah, E395 came and went. 96 was
also in LA. And this was another big
year. And again, I lived this mostly
through magazines and some of them I
very specifically remembered. One of the
biggest pieces of news to come out of
this show for me. This is the year that
Unreal and Unreal Engine made its debut.
Like Unreal Engine is so prevalent
today, but it was E396
where Epic first showed this off and
unveiled like their next generation 3D
engine. And this was at a time in the
world where ID was about to launch
Quake, Duke Nukem 3D was hitting. We
knew about 3D Realms Prey. like this was
like the the period where tons of
first-person shooters and like 3D
engines were all starting to take off in
Epic of Jazz Jackra Rabbit fame and they
threw their hat into the ring as well.
That was a really big deal and I I
specifically remember then that would
dominate magazine covers off and on over
the next few years where it' be like yes
this is a screenshot and stuff like
this. Uh it was it was crazy. It's
called Unreal because it is. Um 96 also
saw the the reveal the full reveal of
Tomb Raider. Uh Starcraft was premiered.
You know, Warcraft 2 was a huge deal at
this time and I guess Diablo was either
out or just about out. So Starcraft was
their next big strategy game. We knew
how big that would become. Uh this is
also the year where um
Naughty Dog unveiled Crash Bandicoot.
You know, developers of Way of the
Warrior 3. they came out with their very
first as they called it like Sonic Sonic
ass game or something where it's like
where it was a 3D platformer where you
run into the screen but this was also
the year where we saw Super Mario 64
right so Nintendo really brought the N64
but this is like where 3D platform games
really started to flourish this is where
we really saw what developers who had
been trying to figure it out finally
started to unveil like obviously Naughty
Dog was like hey what if we do a 2D
style game but like you move into the
camera. Nintendo went full open world
with it. And I think this is the show
famously where the guys at Idic that
were making Bubsy
>> 3D saw Mario and were like, "Oh, we're
screwed."
>> Yeah. I mean, poor poor guys, right? Cuz
like
>> you could totally get it cuz I I think
if you go back and play Bubs 3D, it's
never going to be a great game or
anything, but it is interesting
technically and they were trying to
figure out something that everyone else
was trying to figure out at the same
time. Exactly.
>> And then but then they saw Mario and
it's just like we didn't figure this out
and
>> I mean Nintendo figured it out harder
than anyone else for sure. But Crash is
still good and
>> much bigger budget. But
>> and Tomb Raider does its own thing. You
know, I I actually appreciate that all
these games from this era were doing
things differently. But yeah, obviously
Nintendo's take became the template. I
mean, Tomb Raider to me was like that's
why I remember the most uh because to me
that was I think I mentioned this before
like
>> it it was the natural evolution of like
Flashback and the cinematic platformer
which
>> or cinematic action games, whatever you
want to call them. And so I was super
excited. I don't think I was as excited
when I finally played it because I found
it a little bit too puzzle heavy.
>> Oh, I love it. But I mean, at the time I
played it, I was just not in the mood
for it. But now I really appreciate
them.
>> Yeah. I mean, it holds up today because
developers didn't use Tomb Raider as the
template going forward, right? And so it
holds up just by virtue of there not
really being anything like it. And they
really did do it. I I think they did the
game that they were trying to make. They
did it correctly from the get-go. It's
just that it's just that other
developers didn't really copy it like
they copied Mario 64 deep.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> But still, it was it was a very
important game, right? And
>> that's kind of the theme of E396 I'm
finding is like this was like the year
where like big things were happening.
This was also when Capcom finally demoed
Resident Evil again going to become a
huge game. Uh less huge, but they showed
off Star Gladiator, which was their
first fighting game. Yeah, number one. I
mean not
>> Billstein or Billstein's nightmare or
whatever. Nightmare of Billstein, the
sequel.
>> That's the second one. I think the first
one is like Star Gladiator the final
battle.
>> Straight up won the final battle. Yeah.
So, they were already big plans. That
plays great though. And I actually do
like the whole universe of
Stargladiator. I bought that the day
came out.
>> So, yeah.
>> Um, but yeah. It's also worth
mentioning, I haven't mentioned Sega
yet. Sega actually came out strong in
96. I mean, they had a bunch of stuff
coming. I mean, they had um the big the
big ones they showed at this show was
Nights into Dreams and uh Sonic Extreme.
Knights, of course, like they had like a
full like uh Knights character and like
the rings hanging from the ceiling of
the convention floor and like lots of
demo stations there and it was like,
"Hey, here's the next game from the
creators of Sonic the Hedgehog." That's
kind of a big deal, right? Uh,
meanwhile, Sonic Extreme, as we would
find out, was not from them, and that
was a whole different thing, but it was
playable at the show floor. And I
specifically remember reading about that
in magazines and thinking like seeing
those screenshots and like, whoa, like
this is the Saturn's pretty capable,
>> right? Like this is great.
>> I remember being super hyped for it. And
didn't, correct me if I'm wrong, John,
but didn't like that, maybe not that
demo, but one of the Sonic Extreme
prototypes was based on like the boss
battle engine for Knights and got them
in trouble internally with Sega.
>> Yeah, it sure did. Uh, Eugene Naka like
lost his [ __ ] because he was insane from
as we understand now. Um, but
>> you still he can still find you.
Now, what I will tell you this though,
um, when Electronic Arts was showing off
Road Rash, they showed off the nextG,
like the Saturn and PlayStation versions
at that E3. And in some of the footage I
was watching for this again, do you know
what they're displaying it on?
NEC XM29s, the exact freaking monitor
that I have and is broken and has been
broken for a year, the the my favorite
screen, and it's down. And I'm like,
"Wait a minute. They're using XM29s
there at the show floor and there's a
bunch of them." And I'm just like,
>> all destroyed.
>> They're all destroyed, I'm sure, like in
a landfill or like long gone. And that
just makes me sad. But it shows that
they had really good taste. I'm sure
they chose them because like the Sony
PVMs of the era, they were like cube-
shaped and stackable and like, you know,
really designed for shows like this, so
>> it made sense.
>> But damn.
So E39 E396 again the magazine years for
me but looking back it was such a huge
show. Um and E397 I think kind of
continued that somewhat 98 right and
this was a weird one. Try you mentioned
they moved to Atlanta.
>> Yeah.
>> As far as I can tell this was just down
to like scheduling issues with the LA CC
where they couldn't actually get in
there as they wanted to and they had to
move to Atlanta
>> instead. they just needed another place
to go and that's where it went. So,
um, but this was the year that we got so
97. Uh, the biggest one for me and I
remember this on covers was HalfLife.
>> So, this is the beginning at all.
>> Uh, I read, of course, I read a lot of
PC gaming.
>> Yeah, I was going to say I think we read
different magazines, man.
>> And
it was a huge cover story. This was like
the beginning of Valve. They had an
interview with Gabe Newell, who had quit
Microsoft and went to start the studio
using the Quake engine. And famously,
everything that was shown at E3 that
year would end up not shipping at all
because, as they would do again with
HalfLife 2,
>> they built the whole game and then
decided it wasn't good enough and they
scrapped it and they started over and
rebuilt the whole game.
>> So everything showed at E397 was just
like their first stab at Halflife. Uh,
and that was all those original
screenshots. It has like the scientists
that look like insane like are you
insane is
and they were uh, but it was cool and
that that was a big deal on PC gaming
magazines. This was also when Unreal
itself like Unreal the game was shown
off in more detail. In both HalfLife and
Unreal, there are demos from this period
that have been leaked out there. So, you
can actually see this stuff and play it
on period appropriate hardware. And I
think that itself is super cool. I did a
DFO in Unreal last year and like dug
into all those old prototypes. There's
so many of them and you can absolutely
recreate all the screenshots from the
magazines of that era which is so cool.
But um on the game side uh the game
console side rather this was when we saw
Metal Gear Solid unveiled. Do you guys
remember that revealed? This I remember
it vividly.
>> See, I just remember this from
magazines.
>> Really?
>> Uh, this I remember this was actually
this specifically from E3 was shown uh I
would like to say was shown on Sky like
the the British Channel during like a
tech show segment. I just remember that
it was being shown on TV and they were
showing off Metal Gear from the E3 and
they had no reference or idea of it. It
was just kind of like this is what's
coming. This was like this is one of the
games. It's very kind of bypassing. Uh,
but I remember just kind of being like
Metal Gears coming back and like it
looked like they were kind of I remember
seeing that it was like kind of overhead
and you were still walking in these same
patterns as um on the NES and MSX
because at this point I'd play the MSX
games thanks to Tom and I was just like,
"Wow okay."
>> See, that's interesting because I didn't
know about Metal Gear. I had never
played the NES game. I had no
familiarity with it. I did know
Snatcher, but I didn't like associate
the two or anything. I was just like,
"Oh, it's like this." I I feel like the
trailer was on something like maybe a
demo disc or like somewhere cuz I can
still recall. It was like a CGI. Yeah,
it was probably it was probably the
magazine, but it was like
>> a CGI style trailer, right? Within
>> like magazine or something.
>> Yeah, it must have been something like
It must have been something like that
cuz I I definitely saw the trailer and
remember thinking that looked cool. And
that that was right around the time when
I was starting to pay attention to
consoles again. Even though I was like
hardcore and PC, I was like, "Uh, maybe
I need one of these."
>> I would get Saturn and then a
PlayStation, but not an N64. Sorry, try.
I didn't get one till many years later.
I mean, I was I was aware of when Metal
Gear Solid released because I bought
that on day one and I had played the NES
game and I had played Snatcher. I'd
gotten Snatcher on day one. So, I was I
was familiar with Cojima's game at that
time, but I just I I guess I probably
didn't know him by name.
>> No, no one did, man. Like if someone
said it like maybe like James Milky like
the people in the industry knew but like
>> like even for me who were playing like
the Oasis translated MSX games I had no
idea about that name
>> right
>> interesting this was also the era of
edutainment edutainment and like CDROM
still exploding. So like the the Pippen
atmark was there which is uh the Bandai
uh Apple sort of like collaboration that
they did and I think there was just more
like that sort of stuff there but of
course PlayStation itself was here. I
think uh Tekken 3 was shown off there.
Um DVD ROM started to appear on the PC.
This was the year when you could start
to buy a drive for your PC that was DVD.
And this was like really early. Like DVD
was so super new at this point. Uh like
it was like super cutting edge. Most
people did not have a DVD player, let
alone a DVD ROM drive. But there was all
this talk about, hey, what if you had a
DVD drive in your computer and you could
like get better video or like, you know,
stuff like that,
>> more space and better video. And yeah, I
mean, you started seeing articles about
DVD in like the mid 90s. Like they were
working at that tech for quite some
time.
>> Cory, didn't you get a DVD player like
the first year they were?
>> I got a DVD player in 1997.
>> That's insane to me. That is so insane.
>> Wow. Oh, it was like nothing at that.
Like I didn't get it at that time, but I
have friends that like were super into
movie and video and like audio files and
whatnot
>> and like
>> I just remember that and it wasn't until
like PlayStation to
>> that like it that market exploded, but
like it did it was around. I remember
that
>> that all just came from working at
Electronics Boutique and working with
somebody who was way into this stuff,
you know. He's also the person that
talked me into getting a CD burner
around that same time. And uh you know,
he's like was all on the like the Voodoo
like the dual uh
>> SLIS and SLI. Yeah. He was just like all
into that stuff.
>> Four-way Sly Voodoo 5 9000.
>> Exactly.
>> It's just it's just funny because like I
look at it now, it's like I mean he was
he was a single guy lived alone. Like of
course he's going to get in all this
stuff, right? He had his his apartment.
>> Pretty cool. It's pretty cool.
>> Just doing it, you know? He was He was
in his late 20s at the time. So,
>> oh boy. For me, I my first DVD product
was a DVD ROM drive for my computer in
99. And I got that along with the
Eclipse 4.1 audio system,
>> so I could like blast DVDs on my PC.
>> And my next DVD player was the
PlayStation 2.
>> E397 also had Resident Evil 2. It had
Blasto with Phil Hartman.
>> It had parappa the rapper. Yeah, man.
RIP. I love Steartman. He was he was the
best.
>> Amazing.
>> I think Crash Bandicoot 2 was there. Um
gosh, there was just kind of go on and
on, but like needless to say, this was a
big year. 3D Acceleration was taking
off. Um it was just it was cool. it
continued the trend and like all the
stuff was really showing up in magazines
and now it continued the next year where
I think Symphony of the Night was also
there but it wasn't necessarily
considered a big deal at the time.
>> It sure wasn't it wasn't
>> it wasn't even a big deal after it came
out either. Yeah, the one magazine
notably said that it's it's not good
because it's in 2D.
>> Yep.
>> You know, it's
>> I played it quite early but I I loved it
at the time but Yeah. Yeah. Same here.
Um, so, oh man, I was looking at some
footage. There's actually like a dude in
a Rugrat suit walking around.
>> Oh, no.
>> Like in a diaper. I maybe he's not the
Rugrats guy. Maybe he's just a attendee
of E3.
>> Could be. I guess the the the thing was
there's tons of characters and just like
like these like mascots walking around
the show floor in all these shows, man.
It's very funny. I mean, that's the I
think that's the thing as we move into
the 2000s now that we talking about what
we've lost a little bit. The v variety
of what was on these show floors was
massively
>> more diverse than anything you see today
at like Summer GameFest and whatnot.
>> And there's a lot to be said about that.
>> And this is when they were like so many
main franchises were being established.
>> Yep. Like before we move there, let me
like just let me just list some of the
stuff that happened at E398, right? This
is still Atlanta, last one in Atlanta.
This is the year we got Zelda Ocarine of
Time. Uh HalfLife near Final Demo shown,
Metal Gear Solid, there Starcraft there,
Gran Turismo, Spyro of the Dragon, Crash
Bandicoot 3, Tekken, uh Duke Nukem
Forever was announced and shown off. I
mean, there was so much stuff happening
that year. But then 1999 is the year
when I actually remember starting to see
more video. And this is when Dreamcast
was already out in Japan and they they
went big on showcasing it at E399. Uh I
think Nintendo named that they had a
successor known as Project Dolphin. Um
the PlayStation 2 hype started at E399.
They didn't have much to show, but it
was like this was kind of like very
early
>> demo, right? I I don't think they
actually showed any games yet because
they had just announced they were doing
it. There was a little bit of hype and
then I think it wouldn't be until
September at TGS where we'd actually
start to really see games. But
>> people were already talking about PS2.
>> Seems to just recall that there was like
a bullshot of Madden. That was like the
first thing I ever saw on PS2.
>> I actually remember this is an E3 memory
uh the news broadcast when it was
revealed when PlayStation 2 was
revealed. I remember seeing the Gran
Turismo 2000 footage running at 60 fps
>> and with those reflections it like
really caught my eye. I was like what
the heck? This is insane.
>> Uh so I was really really excited for
that. In 1999
>> that was I mean that I was all in on
consoles again. I was super psyched for
the Dreamcast paying attention to
everything. Uh, Sega did go big at E3,
but they also brought out like their
like Sega Mobile Assault tour
>> where they were like driving buses
around the country showing off the
Dreamcast, I think. Uh, I remember you
could rent the Dreamcast at Hollywood
Video, which I did.
>> Uh, there was the they had a lot of
kiosks at like Funco Lands and such
where you could play games early. I
mean, it was a it was a really big time
and all of the stuff was kind of shown
off at E3. Soulcalibur was there I guess
as well that that would have been
>> a big year like so this is like leading
up to 2000 this aside from some clips
here and there for me this was mostly
like a magazine-based high school
>> still was for me as well it was mostly
magazines that I saw this stuff in. So a
lot what I remember mostly from like the
late 90s E3 like season was just a ton
of bullshots. It was like so many games
were doctorred up for the magazines and
then you'd get the game later. It's like
it doesn't look like that. At least Bubs
like exactly like I remember it in the
magazines.
>> For me, this was definitely an era of
reading online a lot. I mean, I had
Nintendo Power was the only magazine I
really had, but I would read about, you
know, I I mostly went to IGN back in
those days. Um, but I know that I was
downloading lots of videos, looking at
lots of articles and screenshots online
during E3 because, um, I'm pretty sure
it was the next year, uh, 2000. Um, or
>> yes,
>> well, was that when they showed the
Gamecube like really unveiled it or?
>> Uh, no. Um, that would have been
actually
I think at Shankai or Spacew World.
>> Space World was the first time they
showed that off. That was the first time
they revealed it. So I don't think we
would have seen it yet.
>> Yeah. But I I know that in this era
regardless I was very involved because I
remember either 2000 or 2001 being
extremely concerned about the fact that
I was going to be at my grandma's house
when a lot of this stuff was going to be
shown off because my grandma never had a
computer. Um, my dad had given me like a
a a old laptop that his work wasn't
using anymore. And I don't remember like
the logistics of how I did this for the
subscription, but like I like got
internet through the laptop at my
grandma's house somehow so I could like
keep up with like all this like news
that was happening around like early
PS2, early GameCube reveals and stuff.
Like this was all like 20201
and I was like very engaged because I
like could not imagine missing
E3 like as these news drops were
happening you know right around this you
know turn of the century period like I
was very engaged on the online aspect
you know screenshot whether it was it
wasn't just video I mean lots of
screenshots and articles and stuff like
I I was gobbling it all up. So, as we
move into 2000, 2001, this is this is
when I know for sure that I started to
be able to watch video
>> because I saw all the videos. Why
>> is it because
>> specifically? No, no, no, no, no. Uh,
specifically, you know, you're thinking
2000 because I guarantee you you were
downloading that Metal Gear Solid 2
reveal,
>> dude. That I I So, I very specific I was
at my
>> I was visiting my friend Eric's mom's
apartment. We were sitting at her
computer because she had better internet
than us. And I specifically downloaded
>> uh like anov like a small like quicktime
movie of that trailer and we watched
that Metal Gear Solid 2 trailer
>> and just like
>> like a hundred times probably
>> could not believe what what was being
shown. And that video was not showing it
at 60 frames per second by the way. Uh,
so like we were only getting like a
small taste of it, but you could still
see like the things that were going on
in that were like unlike anything I'd
ever seen. And I was like super in on
Dreamcast but
>> I was also like so bowled over by that
that all the other
>> uh less great showing of of PS2 games
during that show kind of got brushed
aside because you just see this and it's
like, well, okay, this is like next
generation here, right?
And that was like I so distinctly
remember the video clips from that era.
And this is when I think also IGN a lot
would upload tons of videos for things.
>> Oh yeah.
>> So I remember downloading so many videos
from them.
>> No streaming. No streaming. This is
download baby.
>> You download you.
>> You downloaded those videos very
>> and these videos were 320 by 240 if even
the biggest.
>> Yeah. that man that's
>> 160 by 120.
>> I just remember you could not
necessarily stream but you could do like
real player and put the address in so
that like
>> it could buffer. Um, yeah.
>> And I just remember doing that and just
like so I do remember that this is kind
of the time too where I was absolutely
hooked in in the middle of the night for
me as things were happening at E3
because they were able to kind of
broadcast that news out more real time
on real player.
>> I don't know if that's the tagline but
it should be.
So
>> yeah,
>> that that was really really exciting
times. And
>> E3 2000 was also that was when Dreamcast
was like, you know, already established
and we saw like basically the next
generation of games somewhere out in
Japan, but like this is where stuff like
Jet Grind Radio were shown. You know, I
remember Skies of Arcadia, Grandia 2
hype, just tons of other games just show
showcasing. I think they were big on the
online place stuff maybe and they were
showing off. Uh I I can't I can't
actually remember. I I just know that
there was a lot of hype around that.
This was also the year when we got
another really nice demo of Halo, which
I was very hyped for because this was
actually pre Xbox. This was still when
Halo was being developed for the PC. Um
and
>> Oh, no. For Mac, right?
>> Well, no, it was Mac and PC, right?
Okay.
>> Not just Mac. It was It was obviously
associated with Mac, but Bungie had
already been making games for PC as
well.
>> And they were coming off of Myth, right?
Was it Myth? Yeah,
>> they did Myth 2, Soul Blighter, and then
Halo was their next big project. And it
had been shown a bit, and it was looking
insane at the time, like all the physics
stuff, the size of the world, like the
bump mapping, the water effects,
>> really, really impressive. But I it's
interesting because this was also the E3
where we started to hear rumblings about
Xbox because Microsoft was at E3. They
were at these E3 shows, but they were
mostly just showing their PC software
lineup, right? PC games. But Xbox was
like starting to become a thing at this
point. And there was rumors, there was
also rumors about Game Boy Advance
happening around this time, but nothing
was actually shown. So it's like on the
Nintendo side, try do you remember like
at 2000 like there wasn't really
anything concrete, but there was all
this talk about like Nintendo's next
wave of stuff is coming. Right.
>> Right. Right. Right. I mean this was uh
for N64. This was a super dead time. Uh
and you know there there wasn't a lot of
excitement around gameplay.
>> Tony Hawk I think was shown off for N64
>> maybe. But, you know, I mean, it wasn't
>> it was something you could play on other
systems. So, yeah, this was I mean, 2000
just in terms of of releases, 2000
>> uh 2001
not the best years of the N64 for sure.
Uh 2000 definitely better than 2001. I
mean, 2001 was was a dire year waiting
for the Gamecube, but yeah, you know,
this was a period of where it's like,
okay, we're very much looking forward to
what is next from Nintendo.
>> Dinosaur Planet at this one.
>> No, not not yet. That would
>> Okay.
>> Oh, on N64. Actually,
>> probably.
Probably.
>> I mean, yeah, that was
>> I remember kind of looking at that and
being like, I'm I'm excited for this.
>> Yeah. I mean Yeah. I mean, there was I I
don't remember specifically what would
have been at E3 uh for N64 and this
year. And I don't remember again
specifically when we started more
concretely seeing GameCube stuff like
that uh you know that famous uh uh
Ocarina of Time styled GameCube demo of
Zelda. Uh right. I don't remember if
that was that was probably Space World,
I'm thinking.
>> Um Right, right, right. But yeah. Yeah,
this was for for Nintendo, but this was
also when I was um finally like fully
engaged with PlayStation. Uh you know, I
was I was looking forward to, you know,
the RPGs and stuff and like super
excited about,
>> you know, uh that kind of stuff as well.
So I I was not just Nintendo by this
point. So yeah,
what's uh interesting though is um this
would have also been so looking at some
of the footage like I saw them showing
off Dragon's Layer 3D as early as 2000
like on a computer
>> and that would
shaded one, right?
>> The the cell shaded one. Yeah.
>> But what I I've never been able to
figure this out and maybe somebody can I
I don't even know if I can describe it
well enough. So, I also remember
watching these videos with a friend of
mine, Nathan. We downloaded tons of
videos and we would like put them on CDs
and like watch them all, which was a bit
crazy, but there was this trailer for a
PC game shown at this show. And it was
so laughably bad. Like, we could not
stop laughing about it. It was just like
it was so choppy. The camera angles were
so bad. Like, the animation was so bad.
And I just remember thinking it was the
funniest thing at the time because they
wanted it to be epic, but it looked like
it was one of the worst looking things
I'd ever seen. And I but I've never been
able to figure out what that was.
>> Oh man, I'm I'm dying to see
>> person here.
>> You're sure this was 2000?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was
definitely It It was 2000 because that's
when I we would have been watching these
videos. It was the summer where we
played a lot of Dreamcast.
So that was a that was a weird time for
that.
>> Um, and yeah, PS2 was was kind of the
main focus of the show beyond that.
Although they did have a Simpsons
wrestling like ring setup with like
characters dressed as Marge and and
Homer like in the ring.
>> That game is insanely bad. Yeah,
>> it is so bad. I mean, you are the
wrestling game expert, Audi, and I think
you can agree. Yeah, for that one it
like the only story I have because the
game is just terrible. It's one of the
worst games ever made. Uh when I was
writing my book and trying to contact
someone that worked on it, I did get in
touch with one of them and
I just got like a reply back saying, "I
have no interest in revisiting this time
in my life or this game. Like I do not
want to talk about it." I was like,
"Okay." you know, it was the only that
was the only insight I got into
development on it. Uh, basically was
just people didn't it was just paid very
quickly and no one wanted to talk about
it.
>> So yeah, E3 2000 very special time. But
2001, now this is really interesting
because this is the first year where
there was a company called NextGen
Videos, I believe, and they put out a
collection, a DVD called Future of Video
Games Volume One. And I would buy each
of these, and I think I still have them
all. I also got the GameSpot selection
of DVDs from this era, uh, but I think
they were 2002 or 2003. I I forget when
they started, but basically this was
finally a moment in time where companies
decided, hey, we're going to sell you
DVD quality video from these trade
shows,
>> from the shows.
>> And yeah,
>> I would buy these and like my sister and
I would just like literally watch the
entire discs, just go down, watch every
single video. It would be like a four or
five disc set. But what was great about
it is it was the first time that you
could actually see the true frame rate
of content
>> because everything was shown at actual
60 frames per second.
>> Yeah.
>> So like it it felt like you were closer
than ever to uh seeing these games in
action.
>> And 2001 is when we saw a lot of big
stuff. So like the one I really remember
specifically the most and I saw this
before the DVD as well was Jack and
Daxter.
that first trailer was revealed with
that really it was a song used from
>> another source.
>> Everybody thought it was Enya at the
time. It's not Enya, but uh
>> I remember
>> the music was really good and the game
looked amazing and I'd never seen a
world that detailed and large before and
then to find out it was all 60 fps it
was like wow. But the disappointment
from E3 stems from I really like the
music in that trailer and then the game
comes out and I hate the soundtrack.
>> We'll get back we'll get back into that
later. By the way, this happens again at
a much greater scale.
>> Oh boy. So that that kind of stuff
sucks. But 2001 though, man, this is
when So PS2 is going into like arguably
its best year ever. Like just so much
stuff comes out this year. Uh Gamecube
and Xbox are both already known
quantities. They are revealed. They go
big at this show. Microsoft had Bungie,
weirdly enough, and Halo was shown here,
but it was not shown well. The E3 demo
famously was really [ __ ] and ran very
poorly. And everybody was hyped for Dead
or Alive 3, which was like the big title
for Xbox, right? So, but and I remember
watching the Halo demo uh from E3 and
thinking, man, this is like 15 fps. It
was really bad. And I thought it looked
so much worse than that older PC footage
we saw. Little did I know it would
consume me over the next few years. But
>> yeah,
>> as they pull it together like really
like towards the end, I think of
development.
>> Yes, they did.
>> That's kind of the whole thing, right?
>> We also Yeah, go ahead.
>> I do want to mention that I I was I was
at this E3.
>> Oh, right. This is the one.
>> Yeah, this is the one. Uh at the time I
was doing video for a website called the
nextlevel.com
and uh I was able to go as part of that
group and you know that that forum was
like a big part of my life and you know
it's kind of funny because people that I
met on that forum from like 99 through
like even till today like kind of weave
in and out in my life. It's it's it's
kind of amazing just how influential
it's been on my life and like where I
am. Uh yeah, I I was there wandering the
floor and uh taking a bunch of photos.
I'll see if I can scan some photos and
put them in.
>> Don't you have footage as well
>> or is that from
>> the footage that the footage is from
2002 that I did not go to, but I had a I
had a friend who was able to go uh he
was a manager at Electronics Boutique
and I think that that would allow them
to also get in
>> for free like during that time.
See for me like 01 and 02 but 01
especially because 01 I was an intern at
Funkcom was the first time I kind of got
a step into the industry. I didn't go to
this or anything but uh that was when I
started kind of realizing that maybe
potentially one day I can get lucky
enough and go to one of these. Uh little
did I know I go through several but like
uh at the time because you're mentioning
like the magazines in the US but there
was a Swedish magazine maybe it was
called Play or maybe that's later but
for us here in Scandinavia and Europe uh
the like some came with VHS cassettes
but some came with actually DVDs uh
supplied and it has a lot of I still
have some of them so I'll try to dig it
up for this episode. Uh, but those are
like super early
uh coverage of E3 at the show by these
kind of wideeyed Scandinavians just kind
of like, "Oh my god, look at this." Uh,
and it's just interesting to see because
like that was how I imagined it too. And
then the footage you showed me, Corey,
from the ones you went to is just kind
of like reminiscent of that era. But
this was when I started,
>> you know, I was sitting on the
magicbox.net net and refreshing all the
time.
>> Oh, the magic box. Remember? Yeah, I was
refreshing that site all the time to see
whatever the latest announcements were.
Again, kind of like in the middle of the
night because it's nine hour difference
>> and u
>> or the GIA maybe sometimes too.
>> Yeah. And um just never more.
>> Yeah, it was it was really good for
Japanese games that site.
>> Yes.
>> Um
>> Magic Black. Yes.
>> Really good site. But this is when we
started getting more video coverage just
being able to download it, but also
packed in. Uh Nintendo also for the N64
magazine put I think most of their E3
lineup on a VHS cassette that I still
have that is per colored or yellow
orange colored u actually. Um but you
have like Luigi's Mansion, the Smash
Brothers uh opening demo and things like
this. So, like I was just, you know,
fully invested in E3 because like we
were starting to get so much coverage
from it u both real time and then
afterwards Sunday magazines.
>> That's actually a good point that uh
there would have been like tape of
earlier E3s of good quality, but it's
something that we we as consumers
wouldn't have really had good access to,
right?
>> Yeah.
>> At the time.
>> I feel like No Clip was uploading a lot
of these old uh
>> he got like
>> videapes. Yeah. It got like,
>> but it might be after this period, I
think. But I don't know. I'd have to
kind of look back through because it was
all from
>> like Game Informers archives or
somebody's archives,
>> something like this. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Uh, right.
>> So, for me, the big one that I remember,
you were going to mention like reveals
from this year. Uh, for me, like I
remember Silent Hill 2 being a big deal.
>> Oh, that's right.
>> I don't know if it was announced at that
point, but that was that was the first
time that I'd seen it. And the uh you
know like the real- time cutcenes in
that game are incredible. Like the
character models are just
>> staggeringly beautiful.
>> So for me one of the kind of reveals has
nothing to do with video games but at
this time there was a Japanese
>> wrestling company called FMW that had
some placement at E3 and they brought
over one of my all-time like idols,
Hayabusa. And I just remember seeing
footage of like him in the US and like
dealing with these trade shows and stuff
and being so jealous. Uh he has past I
never got to meet him. Uh but like you
know when I was in doing this stuff
myself that was like the guy I emulated.
U so I just remember that like I was so
jealous of the fact that like these
Swedes with like wide eyes got to be in
the presence of a living legend like
that. And uh because because I think
Tokyo Pop had some sort of booth there
and they brought them over uh because
they were doing DVDs and whatnot of that
company.
>> Tony Hawk Pro Skater had always already
been like a big hit, but this was I feel
like 2001 was when they really expanded
the whole Activision O2 line and then
they had like Dave Mera
>> uh BMX and um
>> like Pro Surfer and stuff like that
because I remember
>> there was Tony Pro Skater 3 coming later
that year as well,
>> right? Huge,
>> right? Yeah. So, because they had a big
show like that, they had the the like
the halfpipe there and there was, you
know, skaters in there and uh I think a
friend of mine got their photo taken
with uh with Bucky Lassic, I think.
>> Wow. Another
>> See, that's that's that's the kind of
thing looking at footage that and this
wouldn't have really usually been on the
DVDs, unfortunately, but like footage of
the stuff happening on the floor. And I
have seen some other footage of that
where you've got like
>> half pipes and like all the stage shows
and there's dancing and it's just crazy
business happening. Not to mention the
parties.
>> No, the part Yeah. I mean, this is still
active by the time I started going. So,
uh we'll have some firsthand reports on
that.
>> And Cory, you uh you you met you
interviewed Victor Island or met him or
something. Well, we because I was part
of that website, we got to have I got to
go to a couple of the the meetings and
that was the first time I met Victor
Ireland and that was
>> Oh, nice.
>> Uh, Lunar 2 was uh complete edition was
about or Lunar 2 uh Eternal Blue
Complete was about to come out. So,
that's when uh I got to meet him and it
was it was cool. I got a got a free copy
of Sulfie the Lost Planet during that.
Oh,
>> said that they were thinking about
developing or porting games or uh
translating games for the the Gamecube,
>> which obviously never ended up
happening.
>> That definitely did not. But yeah, man.
E3
uh
2001 was a was such a huge year, I
think, and it was I think I mean, just
as a year in general, that was one of
the best that I can ever remember.
>> And it to set the stage for for that
entire next generation in a big way. was
also the final E3 for the Dreamcast.
They'd already announced that they were
discontinuing it, but there was still
some E3 presence with Sega and Dreamcast
at the show.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, but really this was about
PlayStation 2, Xbox, and Gamecube in a
big way. And of course, the PC
>> was the And I've mentioned it before,
but I think that one of the the funniest
things to talk about, or at the time, we
didn't think it was a big deal, but
there was people saying like, "Oh my
god, I I played Grand Theft Auto 3." It
was just kind of like in this side booth
like out of like out of the uh like the
main area.
>> Yeah.
>> Everyone was like it was is it's
incredible. I can't believe what they
were doing with it. And uh at that time,
you know, nobody knew what was what was
in store for them, how that would change
the entire landscape of video games.
So the big question I have kind of going
forward is
>> I don't remember what year but right
around this time is when we actually
started to get to see press conferences
live on
>> 2004 was when you
>> 200
I think 2003 had it as well. That's when
you had it. But like 2004 was when they
started putting that stuff like
scheduled in and people were locked in.
Like
>> it was bar I think GameSpot had a couple
of them.
>> Gamespot. GameSpot was the most reliable
one that I as I
>> recall had the best bit rate of of time.
Yes.
>> Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I I I
think the closest analogy I can make
today is, you know, the frustration that
people have trying to pre-order new
consoles and new anything that needs a
pre-order today and the websites break
and you can't get in and you don't get
in and you're frustrated and angry and
mad. That's what just watching a live
video game presentation was back in
these days. like it was you you had to
wait so long for the page to even load.
Like you didn't know if you were
actually going to get into the page and
you know people were you know having all
these theories like oh if you do this if
you do that or open that in a different
browser whatever. It was like really
nerve-wracking whether you were going to
get to see this event live. But it it it
was uh it that was that was when E3 I
think started to get really cool for me
was seeing the press conferences live.
>> So I think that would have been 2003.
2002
I don't think they were showing things
live yet or if they were I I wasn't able
to catch it.
>> I would that was still that was still a
big year, right? This is when um we saw
Wind Waker at E3. There was Super Mario
Sunshine there. Resident Evil Zero, Star
Fox Adventures,
>> you know, I guess Metroid Prime probably
would have been there.
>> Uh, Splinter Cell was shown off
>> and like Dragon Or
>> Xbox Live was unveiled, I believe.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Um, and it was just, you know, it was it
was another big year, I would say, for a
lot of games. But
>> the image and the image in my head for
this year is Miiamoto coming in from the
back of the theater playing Super Mario
Sunshine
all the way from the back with a waveird
and he's like slowly walking up to E3.
>> I think it was E3. I'm pretty sure it
was E3. Okay,
[100:01] >> I I remember the footage, but
[100:03] >> at this time I just remember that like
[100:05] Nintendo was really like you were
[100:08] getting way more content out of Nintendo
[100:10] at Space World than you ever got out of
[100:12] E3 at this era. I think that I I'm my my
[100:16] my I I'm I'm pretty sure it's a largely
[100:18] American audience in this footage, but
[100:21] maybe I could be misremembering, but I'm
[100:23] pretty sure this is E3 where you know,
[100:25] we already knew about the Wave Bird, we
[100:26] already knew about Mario Sunshine, but
[100:28] he's like all the way in the back
[100:30] playing this wirelessly
[100:32] uh and walking working his way up to the
[100:34] stage. I'm pretty sure that's E32.
[100:37] >> At this E3, would they have been playing
[100:40] Sunshine at 60 or 30? because that
[100:43] change happened from Spacew World to
[100:46] sometime right?
[100:48] >> I I would need to find some footage. I
[100:50] suspect it would be 30 at this point cuz
[100:52] the game was close to ship.
[100:54] >> Uh but you're right, that Spacew World
[100:56] footage was all 60 fps and
[100:57] >> the first time I ever saw it and
[100:59] >> was shown shown again. And that's that's
[101:01] actually a really interesting point,
[101:03] Audi, because it would have been due to
[101:06] either TV broadcast or some sort of DVD
[101:08] cuz I somehow was able to see the 60 fps
[101:12] footage back then.
[101:13] >> I had it too. I think it was packed.
[101:15] I'll try to find it, but it's definitely
[101:17] on a DVD. I have like the Spacew World
[101:20] demo for Mario.
[101:22] >> Uh you have like Miyamoto like
[101:24] >> showing it and then it fades into the
[101:27] >> the 60 fra frames per second demo. Um,
[101:30] and I was super hyped for that. And I I
[101:33] still like Sunshine, but that was
[101:35] definitely one of the games where I
[101:37] started really being like the difference
[101:40] between a platformer at 30 and 60 is
[101:43] pretty massive.
[101:44] >> And for Mario, I was very disappointed.
[101:47] >> Uh, when I first played it. So,
[101:50] >> yeah.
[101:51] >> Yeah, I I was definitely aware. So, it
[101:53] would have been Yeah, it was the Spacew
[101:55] World 2001 footage. Yeah, there is
[101:58] footage out there showing exactly what I
[102:00] saw. It was from Kikiso.
[102:02] >> Yeah,
[102:03] >> I remember that site.
[102:05] >> But I guess they somehow were able to
[102:07] upload at 60 fps as well. Like I mean,
[102:10] but then yeah, at E3
[102:14] 2002, it does seem I found some footage
[102:17] of the press conference here.
[102:19] >> Okay,
[102:19] >> that does seem to be 30.
[102:21] >> Okay.
[102:21] >> And it looks pretty much like the final
[102:23] game. So like that early Space Road
[102:25] footage looked really different from
[102:27] what would ship I would say.
[102:28] >> Yes.
[102:29] >> And then you know by the time they
[102:31] showed it again it had changed a lot and
[102:33] was now just 30 which is a shame.
[102:36] >> That space world demo and it can't it
[102:38] might be in the final game but it has a
[102:40] really good arrangement of the Mario
[102:42] music with like a ukulele. Uh and I
[102:45] don't think it's ever been released. So
[102:48] >> Oh that's a shame.
[102:49] >> Yeah. Now, before we move on from 2002
[102:55] here, there's actually two more in well,
[102:58] a couple more interesting things I want
[102:59] to mention uh on the PC side. First of
[103:02] all, we haven't mentioned it yet, but I
[103:04] would say arguably the biggest game of
[103:06] that show and the one that I watched the
[103:08] most in video form was Doom 3.
[103:12] >> Like Doom 3 was already known. Apple had
[103:14] or IDS software demonstrated it at an
[103:17] Apple conference to showcase what they
[103:19] were doing on like the GeForce 3 or
[103:20] something. But 2002 is when ID finally
[103:24] unveiled that full demo of Doom 3. And
[103:27] it's the same demo that would eventually
[103:29] leak to the internet if you recall,
[103:33] >> which caused a huge uh issue for them.
[103:36] But and I of course downloaded and
[103:37] played it, but yeah, it was very broken.
[103:40] It was not intended for public use, but
[103:42] either way, that demo was incredible
[103:46] looking. Like that was such a next
[103:48] generational leap in terms of visuals,
[103:50] like unlike anything we'd ever seen
[103:52] because what Doom 3 was doing already
[103:54] was like basically showcasing all the
[103:56] new technologies that we would start to
[103:57] see in the next generation of consoles,
[104:00] but in 2002. So like everything cast a
[104:03] shadow. You had full unified shadows and
[104:05] lighting. So you had pixel shaders per
[104:07] pixel lighting, bump mapping, full
[104:10] shadows, p uh uh stencil shadows on
[104:13] everything, just like huge, incredible
[104:16] animation work, uh just crazy effects.
[104:19] Like it just looked like it was truly
[104:21] like beyond anything that ever existed
[104:23] before, I would say.
[104:24] >> Didn't John Carmarmac kind of infamously
[104:26] pitch this as like the final step to
[104:29] like unify all elements of a of a
[104:31] graphics engine together? And but yeah,
[104:34] that engine was only really good at
[104:36] making games that look like Doom 3.
[104:39] >> Uh I mean, yeah, there was definitely
[104:41] some talk of that, but it was really
[104:43] just limitations of like the era, right?
[104:45] Like cuz doing unified lighting like
[104:46] that is expensive and it was very
[104:49] expensive at the time. So naturally, it
[104:52] wasn't super fast, certainly in 2002.
[104:55] But that was that was a big headline.
[104:57] But as we only learned much later, and I
[105:00] don't know if you guys have seen this,
[105:01] but on the anniversary of HalfLife 2,
[105:04] uh, in 2024,
[105:06] Valve released the E3 2002 demo of
[105:10] HalfLife 2 footage.
[105:12] HalfLife 2 was not shown at E3 2002.
[105:17] Instead, as we would learn, they had
[105:19] been building a demo for HalfLife 2 to
[105:22] show at E3 2002. And Gabe Newwell made
[105:26] the decision to not show it because he
[105:28] felt it wasn't good enough. And they
[105:30] they actually revealed footage. It's
[105:32] like a 27minute video on the Valve
[105:35] YouTube channel showcasing it. Uh, and
[105:37] it's like fighting sand lions and stuff
[105:39] in the desert. It looks very different
[105:41] from the final game. And I would say
[105:44] nowhere near as impressive as what they
[105:46] would show the following year, which
[105:48] we'll get to. Uh it's didn't have a lot
[105:51] of those elements. And the weapons look
[105:52] weird. Actually, the the weapon that
[105:54] Gordon's using in most of the demo looks
[105:55] like something out of Red Faction rather
[105:58] than HalfLife 2. So, it's it's it's
[106:01] weird. But that was another one. But
[106:03] that year on the PC also, we got
[106:05] Warcraft 3 was demonstrated. World of
[106:08] Warcraft was super early and shown. both
[106:11] very very big. Uh Maxpane 2 got
[106:14] announced and then there was even stuff
[106:16] like America's Army.
[106:19] >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was like
[106:21] the uh US Army sponsored game, right?
[106:25] They It was like a recruitment uh thing.
[106:28] >> It basically. Yeah. It was like, "Hey,
[106:30] what if we did like Counter Strike, but
[106:33] it was like sponsored by the American
[106:35] Army." and but it was apparent I didn't
[106:39] really play it much but it was
[106:40] apparently pretty good so and that was
[106:44] shown there
[106:46] >> but E3 2003 this I do think is the first
[106:51] year I would have done streaming because
[106:53] this is the year where I first got a
[106:57] Panasonic ED TV
[107:00] which was 480p capable actually it could
[107:02] do 1080i as well so I guess it's
[107:03] technically HD TV but I was able to
[107:06] start piping video from my computer into
[107:09] the TV at 480p. And that was such a big
[107:14] deal because I could watch videos from
[107:16] the PC on that TV. And I invited friends
[107:20] of mine over and we gathered around that
[107:23] TV with my PC plugged in and watched the
[107:26] jankiest live stream you could imagine.
[107:28] I remember being so stressed
[107:31] disconnect and buffer and get nasty and
[107:34] you're just like ah
[107:35] >> it's so it was so stressful like this
[107:38] was just like a moment that you just
[107:40] like could not imagine missing out on
[107:43] >> right like I I was like really hyped for
[107:45] this and I you know we had we had
[107:47] prepared everything for this and it just
[107:50] like man it was it was brutal being
[107:55] >> feel like it was the future. No,
[107:59] I felt like I was doing something
[108:00] illicit almost.
[108:04] >> Yeah, you're just you're doing Yeah.
[108:05] doing it in a way that was not supposed
[108:07] to be done.
[108:09] >> But like basically each year things
[108:11] would get better in terms of like stream
[108:14] quality, but early on, I mean, it was
[108:16] bad. And I remember that was the year
[108:19] >> hairy for a number of years. And the
[108:21] reason I think it was that year is
[108:23] because I believe at the Nintendo
[108:24] conference that's the first time they
[108:26] showed Resident Evil 4 maybe or the
[108:30] first time I remember when it was the
[108:32] Hookman demo
[108:33] >> where they announced Resident Evil 4.
[108:35] Maybe this was like post Capcom 5 or
[108:37] during that whole period but
[108:38] >> I think it was during that period.
[108:40] >> Yeah. They showed off RE4 and it looked
[108:42] insane and I remember thinking like oh
[108:44] dude like this is this is going to be
[108:47] >> I couldn't believe it. Yeah. I was very
[108:50] invested into RE4 throughout its
[108:53] development. I remember this.
[108:56] >> So, and and that was also the conference
[108:58] that had like uh Iwata on stage when he
[109:01] was still very like new. I think George
[109:04] Harrison
[109:06] uh would have still been up there.
[109:09] And I think of course they probably
[109:12] would have gotten Miamoto at some point.
[109:15] That was I think that was the show. I do
[109:18] remember this was the era of Nintendo
[109:19] being obsessed with connectivity. You
[109:22] remember that try? Like everything was
[109:23] like, "Oh, we can do this now. We got
[109:25] Pac-Man versus which is great."
[109:27] >> Game Boy Advance,
[109:28] >> Crystal Chronicles. It was the idea of
[109:30] connecting your Game Boy Advance to to
[109:32] your Gamecube. And Nintendo
[109:35] was so big.
[109:36] >> They spent a long time on Pac-Man versus
[109:38] I think if I recall.
[109:40] >> They sure did. And but but people like
[109:43] always say like I've never played it but
[109:45] people say it's actually it's amazing I
[109:47] guess but at the time watching this
[109:50] >> didn't seem very exciting.
[109:52] >> I mean all the experiences I've had with
[109:54] connecting Game Boy Advance to Gamecube
[109:58] was great. Um Tom and I played like
[110:00] Crystal Chronicles
[110:03] Pac-Man was like Four Swords eventually.
[110:07] So, I mean, they they had a great
[110:10] product in it. It's just it really
[110:12] didn't catch on. Most people did not.
[110:14] >> The barrier for entry was too great.
[110:15] >> Yeah. And I remember hating that
[110:18] connector. Uh at least maybe mine was
[110:21] slightly damaged on the little hook
[110:23] thing, but like it kept like falling
[110:25] out. So, like
[110:27] >> yeah, I mean the experience itself was
[110:29] great with the Game Boy connectivity.
[110:33] And this would it would this have been
[110:35] the pre uh GBA SP too. So you're still
[110:38] like dealing with like the the darker
[110:40] screen and everything while doing this?
[110:42] >> I don't remember. I feel like the SP
[110:44] would have been out by then.
[110:46] >> P is 2002.
[110:49] >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure SP was out.
[110:50] >> Okay.
[110:52] >> Uh but so
[110:54] >> I also remember this was another year of
[110:57] like really great demos being shown. Um,
[111:00] we got that amazing trailer of Metal
[111:03] Gear Solid 3 Snake Eater, which I was on
[111:06] the the Gaming Age forums, Gaff, at the
[111:09] time.
[111:10] >> I I'd been on them since like 2000
[111:12] >> and I remember I feel like the Metal
[111:14] Gear Solid 3 trailer, like a bit of it
[111:17] leaked out early, like because we were
[111:18] all excited for E3 and I remember seeing
[111:20] a little bit of this and everybody was
[111:21] like, "Wait, what is this?"
[111:23] >> Like it's like jungle and stuff
[111:25] >> and it was it was super cool. Uh, this
[111:28] was also the year um when Xbox showed
[111:31] Halo 2 where it had that really epic
[111:34] demo of
[111:36] >> Oh, yeah. New.
[111:37] >> It's not even in the game.
[111:38] >> It's not in the game. And and
[111:41] >> uh spoilers, I should be able to finally
[111:44] feature this properly on DF because uh
[111:47] we have obtained an Xbox with the 120
[111:50] megabytes modded in and it has that Halo
[111:53] 2 E3 demo installed on it.
[111:56] So I I will finally be able to play it
[111:58] on a real Xbox soon.
[112:01] So
[112:01] >> wow, that's funny.
[112:02] >> But that was awesome at the time and it
[112:05] really looked crazy.
[112:07] >> Uh and then also,
[112:09] >> you know, Doom 3 was shown again, but
[112:10] this is this is the year when Halflife 2
[112:14] actually was revealed. And I got to ask,
[112:15] do you guys remember this? No.
[112:17] >> To me, this was like worlds shattering.
[112:19] >> My goodness.
[112:21] >> I was not into Halflife, dude.
[112:24] I wasn't into PCs.
[112:26] >> The thing is I remember it is
[112:28] >> Doom 3 was already mind-blowing but then
[112:30] Halfife 2 they do
[112:32] >> I remember Doom 3 I love Doom 3. It was
[112:34] the that was my Doom basically uh
[112:37] because it was like more narrative
[112:38] driven and more you know sing like
[112:41] single player experienced whereas Doom 1
[112:44] and two I was just never good at.
[112:47] >> But HalfLife I was very into the party.
[112:49] The Half-Life demo was so exciting to me
[112:52] because this this was again another one
[112:54] of those moments where you feel like
[112:55] you're getting a tease of NextG. It was
[112:58] like a 25 27 minute video or
[113:01] presentation from Valve. Gabe Newell in
[113:04] the room. Uh and this was them
[113:06] introducing Source Engine for the first
[113:08] time. And they start by like showcasing
[113:11] like, hey, Source Engine has physics.
[113:15] They show like breaking wood and having
[113:17] it splinter. They showed like a fake
[113:19] pachinko machine with barrels falling
[113:21] down through it. They've got water to
[113:23] show buoyancy. It's like just this idea
[113:26] like when you shoot a like all these
[113:28] wood things together, they actually kind
[113:29] of all like shake around and break apart
[113:31] and it just feels so realistic and
[113:34] visceral at the time. It was genuinely
[113:37] mind-blowing. And then they started
[113:38] showing off like, "Hey, we have this
[113:40] thing. It's called normal maps. You guys
[113:43] ever heard of that?"
[113:44] And you know, obviously that would go on
[113:47] to define textured surfaces going
[113:49] forward. Uh lots of special effects and
[113:52] like the most amazing water anybody ever
[113:55] seen. And then it ran through a bunch of
[113:56] scenarios showing different elements
[114:00] that they would plan to ship in the
[114:01] game. And it's like a it's like a series
[114:04] of short vignettes. Like it shows Dr.
[114:06] Kleiner's lab. But the big one was like
[114:08] they show um Raven home and this idea
[114:13] like you and the final game doesn't even
[114:15] have this like you see an enemy and
[114:17] immediately like they have Gordon run
[114:19] into this house, close the door and like
[114:21] enemies are chasing him down and like
[114:23] you actually see you know those like
[114:25] slats that they would sometimes put in
[114:27] front of windows where it's like tall
[114:29] skinny things connected at the top and
[114:31] then you would like pull a cord to like
[114:33] cover the window. They have a window
[114:35] with those and you see like the enemies
[114:37] actually like hitting each one and
[114:39] they're like breaking apart and flapping
[114:41] around. They're like coming in and
[114:42] trying to get into the building. Gordon
[114:44] pushes a table with stuff on it in front
[114:46] of the door to block it and then the
[114:48] combine kicks open the door and like
[114:50] everything goes flying and it's just
[114:52] like a it's just this like example of
[114:55] just crazy cool stuff happening. It's
[114:57] got the gravity gun. Uh, like I'm so I
[115:02] know you guys weren't into PC games, but
[115:04] I'm really surprised that you totally
[115:06] missed this cuz it really like I may
[115:08] have seen some of it at the time because
[115:10] I mean I remember I I I didn't have a
[115:13] computer good enough to really run a
[115:14] game like this until 2006.
[115:17] And you know, even then I was even then
[115:20] I was blown away by it uh when I when I
[115:22] tried it. Uh but yeah, I don't really
[115:26] know when I first started paying
[115:27] attention to HalfLife 2. It may have
[115:29] already been out. I'm not sure.
[115:32] >> I remember like Tom playing it when it
[115:35] came out because he's into HalfLife, but
[115:37] I don't remember like
[115:40] >> that this being showcased.
[115:41] >> I mean, I I
[115:44] stole the trailer from it, though.
[115:47] >> I mean, I I do think Halfife 2 is one of
[115:49] the most amazing games ever made, but
[115:51] just at the time, I was not really
[115:52] looking at PC stuff.
[115:54] >> And that's the thing, right? I maybe
[115:55] it's cuz I was posting on forums and
[115:57] stuff and also still into PC games, but
[115:59] like
[115:59] >> just seeing like it's the kind of
[116:02] feeling you don't really get from like
[116:04] shows these days, but like when Valve
[116:06] showed HalfLife 2,
[116:08] >> you felt like you were just seeing
[116:09] things that had never been made before.
[116:12] It genuinely felt like a glimpse into
[116:14] the future. There was just stuff going
[116:16] on in that trailer where you're like,
[116:18] "This is unbelievable." Like I
[116:20] >> And no one no one can recreate that game
[116:22] these days. like that can't no that
[116:25] can't be
[116:25] >> it's almost impossible to do it.
[116:28] >> And I love the way they built this into
[116:30] all those vignettes where like the
[116:32] person in the demo room could guide the
[116:35] player through each one of these
[116:36] vignettes so they can show off all these
[116:38] different pieces from the game to give
[116:40] you an idea of all the different types
[116:42] of things you can do. And this heavy
[116:45] focus on physics along with cutting edge
[116:48] graphics was really like the next step.
[116:50] like games just didn't have physics like
[116:52] this before HalfLife 2 and it was uh it
[116:56] was crazy. So yeah, I I'll take your
[116:58] word I can't help I can't help but gush
[117:00] at this. It was it was a very special
[117:02] moment. I watched this video so many
[117:04] times.
[117:06] >> Uh it really sticks with me. It's just
[117:08] one of the coolest things. So and then
[117:12] man there's so we can't talk about every
[117:14] E3 like E3 2004.
[117:16] >> I was going to say like we're we're over
[117:19] two hours at this point. I'm kind of
[117:20] getting a little nervous because we
[117:21] still have another 16 to go.
[117:23] >> We haven't even started going to them
[117:25] yet. Like we're still
[117:27] >> So I guess let's just say 2004 another
[117:30] banger year.
[117:31] >> You can't just say a banger year because
[117:33] this 2004 is the last one of this era we
[117:36] need to talk about because that was you
[117:38] know
[117:38] >> so yeah Audi take us through 2004. Take
[117:41] us through it.
[117:42] >> Well so this was definitely a year that
[117:44] like
[117:46] you were talking about live streaming. I
[117:47] remember watch this was the year that I
[117:49] watched all of them live. They were all
[117:51] on GameSpot. Uh they were all being
[117:54] heavily promoted and just like it was
[117:56] counting down. It was an event and I
[117:58] remember sitting there with my friends.
[118:00] Uh and it was my last year of school. So
[118:04] I just remembered that like Nintendo had
[118:07] their show at an hour where I think at
[118:10] the end of the day we were able to sit
[118:12] down and watch it together on the
[118:14] broadband network there. And I think
[118:16] this was kind of where those live
[118:19] presentations
[118:20] were solidified as must-see events
[118:23] because that was when Reggie Phil came
[118:26] out
[118:27] >> and did the legendary line.
[118:29] >> Uh, and my god, that live show was
[118:34] >> exhilarating. when you watch it today,
[118:37] it's not that they were showing off like
[118:39] banger after banger, but what they were
[118:40] showing off and the way they showed it
[118:42] off for Nintendo especially
[118:44] >> was just like it really was kicking your
[118:47] ass. And you saw the DS
[118:50] >> uh you had like Reggie who was
[118:52] absolutely the opposite of anything that
[118:55] we have been trained as like Nintendo
[118:57] friendly. I think he was at Pizza Hut
[119:00] before this. Um, so just fueled by
[119:03] pepperoni, but and then of course there
[119:07] was the Twilight Princess reveal that
[119:09] was like finally after all these years a
[119:11] Wind Waker kind of
[119:13] >> now people love Wind Waker and I did.
[119:15] >> Right. Right. Right.
[119:16] >> But it was not beloved by the general
[119:18] populace.
[119:20] >> And so here you had this reveal of like
[119:23] >> return to form and you were mentioning
[119:25] earlier about uh trailer music. I
[119:28] remember like getting out of my chair
[119:30] for this because it was using the Conan
[119:33] music trail music and I was like, "Holy
[119:36] sh like, are they gonna use Bassel uh
[119:39] for the soundtrack here?"
[119:41] >> Uh, and they were not. Uh, but it fits
[119:44] so well. But this this live show of them
[119:47] revealing the DS, which was like
[119:50] incredible.
[119:51] >> That that's that's the jacket pole. The
[119:53] classic jacket pull.
[119:55] >> Yeah, jacket pull. And then remember
[119:57] they were showing off like the trailer
[119:59] for Zelda and they faded to Miiamoto on
[120:03] stage with like the lighting on him
[120:04] holding the shield and sword
[120:07] >> and people were on their feet and it was
[120:09] just like you were got swept up
[120:11] >> and for me that was the moment that I
[120:13] was like I am going
[120:15] >> like no matter what it takes I have to
[120:18] go to E3 like there is just no way I can
[120:21] ever allow myself.
[120:24] >> It did. Absolutely. I I feel like I feel
[120:27] like if if you put out like a a poll of
[120:29] like what is the most iconic E3
[120:32] conference from any like console
[120:34] manufacturer, I think this would be the
[120:36] one.
[120:37] >> This is the one they were chasing ever
[120:39] since.
[120:40] >> This is this was what a when people talk
[120:43] about that they miss the conferences,
[120:45] this is what they're missing.
[120:46] >> This is what they miss. Yep.
[120:48] >> You never you never really got to that
[120:50] high again. We music maybe. No,
[120:53] >> but
[120:55] You know,
[120:58] >> dude, you didn't even mention the intro.
[121:00] Like before Reggie comes on stage, they
[121:02] have that epic music with like worlds
[121:04] worth exploring and battles worth
[121:06] fighting, all that. And like it's like
[121:08] so epic and beyond. It's very different
[121:11] from what Nintendo had been doing as you
[121:12] noted. Like they were all about like
[121:14] cuteness. They were people called
[121:16] Nintendo kitty. It was like, you know,
[121:19] connectivity. And this felt like them
[121:21] being like, "Nah, we're doing something
[121:23] else."
[121:23] this because then they would do the Wii
[121:25] which is all about
[121:27] >> Sure. Sure. So,
[121:30] >> you know, as as a
[121:32] >> as someone who is like very much
[121:33] Nintendo first, uh like this was this
[121:36] was a moment like the whole Nintendo
[121:38] community had been waiting for, right?
[121:40] Like this was
[121:41] >> this was a moment where you no longer
[121:43] like felt ashamed to be a Nintendo fan.
[121:47] Like it it'll
[121:49] >> I mean Yeah. But like like for at least
[121:52] for a moment it felt like Nintendo was
[121:55] like the coolest thing in the universe.
[121:58] And this
[121:58] >> it it didn't feel like that the next
[122:00] year. But like this was everything like
[122:03] that Twilight Princess trailer. Man,
[122:05] >> I have the DVD still of that at like
[122:09] real good quality. And I just remember
[122:10] watching that over and over.
[122:12] >> It's ironically one of my least favorite
[122:15] Zelas.
[122:16] >> Uh but when that was revealed
[122:18] >> Oh yeah,
[122:19] >> man. I couldn't believe that specific
[122:21] trailer.
[122:22] >> I've heard that people were were in
[122:24] tears in the audience like
[122:27] >> I mean people is that where the meme
[122:29] comes for sitting there.
[122:31] >> Yeah, the IGN meme.
[122:32] >> I think that's right there and then me
[122:34] like this.
[122:35] >> No, no, it's IGN guys.
[122:36] >> Okay.
[122:37] >> Yeah. I don't I don't think that was
[122:39] 2004 though. I think that was in the
[122:42] >> I can't remember. It may have been an
[122:43] earlier one
[122:46] >> or later. I don't know. I could have
[122:48] sworn it was that one though because of
[122:50] the Zelda reveal at the end.
[122:51] >> Could it could be
[122:52] >> maybe
[122:55] >> but man either way
[122:57] >> you can't top that show. You can't you
[122:59] can't top that show. That that's just
[123:00] >> N3
[123:03] that
[123:04] >> is
[123:06] >> the DS
[123:07] didn't come out of that looking all that
[123:09] good.
[123:10] >> That's the thing, right?
[123:12] This is also the E3 where Sony revealed
[123:14] the PSP
[123:15] >> and the PSP like blew the doors out of
[123:18] like
[123:18] >> people unfairly were like oh the DS is
[123:21] like nothing and the PSP is
[123:23] >> well the DS did have a bad launch lineup
[123:26] as well. So just Yoshi Toppsy Turvy and
[123:30] the Curvy.
[123:31] >> No, no, no, no. Uh Yoshi Touch and Go.
[123:33] Topsy Turvy was a was an even a
[123:35] significantly worse GBA game.
[123:38] >> Yeah, that's right.
[123:41] bad Yoshi games. Um, but you
[123:44] >> and a great Kirby game.
[123:45] >> You know what? Well, I
[123:47] >> was the Yoshi gravitational or what was
[123:49] >> Yeah. Yeah, that's topsyturvy. Yeah. Um,
[123:52] the uh the thing that always surprises
[123:54] me about this this showing of the DS
[123:57] here is how relatively close it is to
[124:00] launch and then the final unit doesn't
[124:02] look anything like this. Like it's
[124:04] insane to me that all of that that that
[124:07] physical change and all of the launch
[124:10] units being manufactured happened I
[124:12] guess after this E3.
[124:14] Like did they know that it wasn't going
[124:16] to launch looking like that at this
[124:18] show? Cuz like it's got that black
[124:21] border and stuff. Um it's it's a it's a
[124:24] totally different look.
[124:25] >> It's very weird, right? Especially cuz
[124:28] like at the same show like the PSP
[124:30] again, the PSP was final looking
[124:32] hardware at E3 and it was like
[124:35] >> one of the most beautiful like objects I
[124:38] feel like I ever looked at.
[124:39] >> I never laid eyes.
[124:41] >> I'm not kidding, dude.
[124:43] >> I mean, that's not how I remember it.
[124:47] >> Console design.
[124:50] I was the hype that big I remember like
[124:52] PSP and DS being very split like 50/50
[124:56] that like you had the crowd
[124:58] >> the PSP looked pretty revolutionary with
[125:00] the quality of its screen for the time
[125:03] >> was it was huge dude PSP was like
[125:08] >> I mean everybody and when they launched
[125:10] earlier that that's when you got like
[125:12] John Ricardi and them back in Japan when
[125:14] it came out they made that joke picture
[125:16] with uh everybody playing Ridgeraer and
[125:18] then the DS going like Hey, who anybody
[125:20] want to play or something? Use it chat.
[125:23] >> Well,
[125:24] >> the idea at the time was basically
[125:25] >> I feel the magic.
[125:26] >> I think it's it's also important to
[125:28] remember that Nintendo was pitching the
[125:30] DS as a third pillar at the time because
[125:33] they themselves weren't that confident
[125:35] like this concept could work as a
[125:39] official replacement for the GBA. like
[125:41] they didn't want to set, you know, have
[125:45] GBA ride off into the sunset until they
[125:47] were sure that DS was going to really
[125:49] stick. And it it didn't it didn't stick
[125:52] at first. It was it was tough getting
[125:54] that going. Uh in now that all
[125:56] everything's shaken out, actually, this
[125:58] is a fun thing. In my personal opinion,
[126:01] I like the PSP more than the DS. I love
[126:03] the DS, but the DS is a game that's so
[126:06] heavy on games that require you to
[126:08] commit a lot of time, whereas I feel
[126:09] like the PSP has so many more games that
[126:12] you can just pick up still and have a
[126:13] great time with like right away.
[126:15] >> I I ghost
[126:18] >> or Ghost and Bins.
[126:19] >> I I I you know, I I I gave up on the
[126:22] PSP. I like sold my PSP after a bit
[126:25] because I I feel like the early PSP just
[126:28] was not doing it for me. So, I I
[126:30] definitely played a lot more DS when it
[126:32] was new, but then when I got back into
[126:33] PSP, uh I do agree PSP is a much more
[126:36] enjoyable system for me to revisit today
[126:40] than the DS is. But the DS Mario
[126:43] Brothers when that changes
[126:48] >> I think it was that
[126:51] >> was also the the DS light. The DS light.
[126:54] the D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D
[126:55] D D D Lite, which came out around the
[126:56] same time as New Super Mario Brothers,
[126:58] but uh it was, you know, Kirby Kirby and
[127:02] Kirby Canvas Curse and like um Advanced
[127:04] Wars Dual Strike, like that was when the
[127:06] DS started really turning around, I
[127:08] think. Um but yeah, it was
[127:11] >> maybe Animal Crossing.
[127:13] >> I just remember
[127:15] >> DS was in a good point by by Animal
[127:18] Crossing, I think. But that first like
[127:20] half year was pretty bad for the DS.
[127:23] >> Yeah. Yeah, amusingly though at E3 2004,
[127:29] uh, Doom 3, HalfLife 2, MGS3, Halo 2,
[127:32] all of them, they still weren't out yet.
[127:34] They would all come out later that year,
[127:36] which is insane. But the presentations
[127:39] that year were worse. Like Halo 2, they
[127:41] showed just the multiplayer and it was
[127:44] such an anemic and boring presentation
[127:46] compared to 2003. Even though I the the
[127:50] game turned out awesome, but like the
[127:52] presentation was not great. Uh I feel
[127:56] like
[127:56] >> and the multiplayer was awesome in that
[127:57] game, too. I mean,
[127:58] >> it was it was just that it was just a
[128:00] demo problem.
[128:01] >> It just didn't work very well on stage.
[128:03] >> Exactly. Exactly.
[128:05] >> John, I need to know
[128:07] >> when when when did Tac Fuji start coming
[128:10] to E3? When did Tac Fuji become famous?
[128:13] >> Later on.
[128:15] >> Later on.
[128:15] >> That was definitely much later.
[128:17] >> Okay. 2010 maybe.
[128:19] >> Really? That no
[128:21] >> crap it around the Frogger.
[128:24] >> Oh, right.
[128:26] No, that that could have been That would
[128:28] have been after this though. We don't
[128:30] Yeah, it because it's a Frogger. We
[128:31] don't crap around the Frogger.
[128:32] >> We don't We don't crap around the
[128:33] Frogger.
[128:34] >> As he famous as he famously said in an
[128:36] interview,
[128:36] >> we don't crap around the Frogger.
[128:38] >> We don't crap around the Frogger. Um,
[128:41] all right. For this episode, let's let's
[128:44] wrap up with E3 2005, okay? because I
[128:47] feel like this is like a turning point
[128:48] because this is when
[128:50] all the new stuff was being revealed and
[128:52] this was also a weird time because this
[128:54] is when I was living in Japan. So like I
[128:57] was watching stuff from afar. Uh and I
[129:00] actually did get to go to TGS that year
[129:02] and I saw PlayStation 3 there. But
[129:05] >> Oh wow.
[129:06] >> It was really shown off for the first
[129:07] time properly at the show and Xbox 360
[129:11] also shown off as well as the Revolution
[129:14] prototype. Uh, but famously,
[129:17] >> this is the one where Sony went nuts and
[129:20] like showcased a PS3 that ultimately
[129:23] would never exist.
[129:25] >> The boomerang, the horrible controller.
[129:27] Yeah,
[129:27] >> boomerang year. This is the year with
[129:29] with all the demos like Killzone 2, you
[129:32] know, Motortorm, all the bullshot demos
[129:35] where it's all these like either CGI
[129:37] trailers or like pie in the sky stuff.
[129:40] >> Basically, they like blew the doors off
[129:42] of everyone's expectations. It looked
[129:44] insane, but it was also not real at all.
[129:48] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[129:49] >> You don't know. There's a video on DF.
[129:53] >> Yes.
[129:53] >> Go over that presentation.
[129:54] >> We go we go if you if you want see more
[129:56] on that. There's a big video on it.
[129:58] >> And watch the re-edited version that has
[130:01] 2005 and 2006 together, Sony
[130:04] conferences, because they have much
[130:05] better source
[130:06] >> back. Mhm.
[130:07] >> Exactly. And 360 the same deal. We've
[130:11] looked at that. The 360 showing was
[130:13] actually not good. They had the Elijah
[130:14] Wood thing on MTV which was okay and in
[130:17] the
[130:18] >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But
[130:21] >> compared to what PS3 was doing, it felt
[130:23] like uh
[130:26] it didn't feel like a full generational
[130:28] leap at the time. In retrospect,
[130:30] obviously 360 would be awesome,
[130:33] >> but first impressions were not amazing.
[130:36] Uh and Nintendo, of course, was still to
[130:38] to be seen. Yeah,
[130:40] >> the revolution.
[130:42] >> They talked about the revolution. This
[130:44] is also I think when I famously said you
[130:46] will say wow about the graphics. So, the
[130:49] funny thing about uh this E3 for me was,
[130:52] you know, at the time I was uh in a like
[130:56] a very tight-knit, very small forum
[130:59] community and there was this guy who
[131:04] claimed to go to E3
[131:07] and, you know, he said enough things
[131:09] over the years to like make that seem
[131:11] sort of plausible, but we were starting
[131:15] to have our doubts about him because
[131:17] there was some things that he's like,
[131:18] "Oh, I played this behind closed doors
[131:20] and this, this, and that." And we're
[131:22] like, "Hm, I don't know." This year,
[131:26] like, he said that he played Revolution
[131:28] behind closed doors, and it was like
[131:30] this VR headset,
[131:33] and it was like a VR headset, and it was
[131:36] like the most incredible thing he'd ever
[131:38] seen. You know, he was playing this
[131:39] Mario game. There's like fireballs
[131:42] whizzing past my head and stuff. Yeah.
[131:45] >> And uh yeah, this was
[131:48] and and you know, me and like a few of
[131:50] our other friends at the like really
[131:52] like caught on to him at this point and
[131:54] we're like really egging him on and like
[131:57] trying to see like what kind of like
[131:58] even more ridiculous things we could get
[132:01] him to actually say that were like
[132:02] absolutely not true. Uh so yeah, because
[132:07] >> everyone want to know what is the
[132:08] revolution? We didn't know yet.
[132:11] Well, so remember what leading up to E3
[132:14] there was kind of like there's some not
[132:16] validity to what your friend was saying
[132:18] but at this time
[132:19] >> because like from E3 2004 to 2005 like
[132:23] Nintendo there was a lot of expectations
[132:26] and then you like there was but remember
[132:28] at this time there was a rampant rumor
[132:31] that Nintendo on that VR like spherical
[132:36] headset was the next thing and someone
[132:39] made like this is for AI and all.
[132:41] >> Oh, the the crazy the crazy uh video
[132:44] >> and that's Mario like yes with the Mario
[132:47] video which is kind of similar to what
[132:49] your friend is talking about and I think
[132:51] like a lot of people were running with
[132:53] Nintendo on
[132:54] >> that gave credibility to his
[132:59] before E3 this and this was leading up
[133:01] and I remember months and months uh and
[133:03] at this point I was in my very early
[133:06] stages of being actually in the games
[133:08] industry and I just remember that like
[133:10] that was kind of nipped in the bud kind
[133:12] of early internally. And it's not that I
[133:14] had like great sources or anything, but
[133:16] I just remember that like even if you
[133:17] looked at the whole thing on on a fact
[133:21] sheet, it's like this makes no sense.
[133:23] Like this is not what Nintendo's doing.
[133:26] >> That video was iconic though. Like at
[133:28] the time it looked
[133:30] >> it this like we have to see it on screen
[133:32] right now. that that was the best
[133:35] looking like uh like homemade 3D
[133:39] animation I'd ever seen.
[133:41] >> Way before AI, someone sat down and
[133:43] crafted this. I mean, so now we would
[133:45] praise it. At the time when people saw I
[133:47] was like, this is not real.
[133:49] >> Um, so but when you actually did see the
[133:52] revolution because this I think we all
[133:54] can agree this E3 showing is not of the
[133:57] same caliber as what we just talked
[133:59] about 2004. And I think the only thing
[134:01] they
[134:01] >> I can't even remember what it could have
[134:03] been.
[134:04] >> Uh they showed like Metro
[134:07] >> I guess Twilight Princess was probably
[134:09] >> 10 Dogs was on was on on stage. Actually
[134:12] at this E3 that's when they Reggie
[134:13] pulled out the Game Boy Micro on stage.
[134:16] >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Other pull out
[134:18] >> which I found I found interesting
[134:20] because when you look at the video you
[134:22] you actually see he is in exactly the
[134:25] third room of Zelda Minish Cap, right?
[134:27] You wake up in your bed, you go
[134:28] downstairs, then you you go from
[134:30] downstairs, you go right one more time.
[134:32] There's dialogue, right, with the
[134:34] characters before you can take control.
[134:36] He's there and it was on when he pulls
[134:38] it out of the pocket. So, I'm just
[134:40] trying to imagine before he goes out to
[134:42] do this, he he would have had to have
[134:44] turned on the GBA, button through like
[134:47] walk downstairs, button through a bunch
[134:48] of dialogue, and then just leave Link
[134:50] standing there just to get it ready. And
[134:53] because there's no sleep mode, he would
[134:54] have just had this in his pocket like
[134:58] >> Sure. Why not?
[135:01] >> Well, that battery we said earlier, that
[135:03] battery never dies.
[135:05] >> Yeah,
[135:06] >> exactly. It's just
[135:07] >> I love thinking about weird logistics
[135:10] just in his pocket.
[135:14] >> That's actually really funny. Like, of
[135:16] course it is, but like you don't think
[135:18] about that. Would you say though, John,
[135:21] that like the little mockup of Metroid
[135:24] that they showed for the Revolution was
[135:26] uh indicative of what we got?
[135:30] >> Uh maybe. Uh which one? Where?
[135:33] >> So during this E3 show when they were
[135:35] talking about what was next, the
[135:37] Revolution,
[135:37] >> they showed
[135:38] >> Yeah, they showed Metroid like not
[135:41] Prime, not anything. You saw Samus Aaron
[135:43] and the ship behind her. It was just a
[135:45] tech demo, like a really really short
[135:47] one, but it was interesting. Sounds
[135:49] vaguely alluded that this was what was
[135:52] like this is the capabilities of what's
[135:54] coming next,
[135:55] >> right? But you know this was um
[135:58] >> what what was her name like Cammy
[135:59] something was one of the Nintendo
[136:02] >> uh of America employees Cammy I'm trying
[136:05] to blank our last name but
[136:06] >> Tammy Dunaway or something like that.
[136:08] Yeah, D something sounds familiar, but I
[136:11] remember she very infamously I I think
[136:15] kind of went off script uh you know
[136:17] during this was just an interview. This
[136:19] wasn't like a stage presentation but
[136:21] people were like really trying to press
[136:22] like how much more powerful than the
[136:24] GameCube is the revolution and I think
[136:27] she just you know just like pulled some
[136:30] number out of nowhere just to say
[136:32] something like oh probably like two to
[136:33] three times more powerful. I can't
[136:34] remember exactly what she said, but like
[136:37] this was like the first time I think
[136:38] there was really like alarm bells of
[136:40] like, wait, Nintendo might not be
[136:42] keeping pace with PlayStation and Xbox
[136:44] on the on the power and people were
[136:48] people were so nervous though. People
[136:51] like, but I don't think she was at all
[136:53] supposed to say that at the time. And I
[136:56] don't know if she even if if in her
[136:58] position if she would have really even
[137:00] known yet like if she had really if she
[137:02] would have actually known that much
[137:04] about the hardware and what that what
[137:06] the trajec what Nintendo's focus would
[137:08] be at that point you know and her
[137:11] position I don't know so that was that
[137:13] was infamous but she was right she was
[137:15] right but that was when people started
[137:17] getting like really scared and people
[137:18] were like oh she doesn't know what she's
[137:20] talking about it's actually it's going
[137:21] to be fine you know it's going to be
[137:23] really powerful um but No, she was
[137:25] right. She was right.
[137:27] >> The thing is though, T is if you they
[137:28] showed what the console would look like
[137:30] and it was pretty spot-on.
[137:32] >> If you looked at the size of that box
[137:35] in his hand, like you should logically
[137:37] come to the conclusion that wait, this
[137:39] is not going to be anything like PS3 or
[137:41] 360.
[137:42] >> Yeah. I mean, and but that was all in
[137:46] the discussion at the time, you know,
[137:48] like
[137:48] >> I know I remember
[137:51] we were realizing and like we had a year
[137:55] to come to terms with that before we
[137:57] finally really properly saw what this
[137:59] is.
[138:00] >> Amazingly, and I just noticed this now
[138:02] when we're looking through old video of
[138:04] it, the Nintendo Revolution logo, the
[138:07] O's in Revolution are two discs, right?
[138:11] But the Revo, the first O is a big disc
[138:14] like a DVD and then the second O is a
[138:16] small one like Gamecube disc.
[138:18] >> Okay. Okay.
[138:19] >> Which is very clever.
[138:21] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[138:22] >> I mean, you know, and kind of linking
[138:25] back to this like super cool guns
[138:28] blazing image that Nintendo exerted in
[138:32] 2004. Like Revolution was like a cool
[138:36] name, you know?
[138:38] >> Yeah, it was. Uh, but I I suppose like
[138:41] talking any deeper about that is a
[138:43] conversation for another time when we
[138:45] get to uh E3 2006. Honestly, I'm excited
[138:49] that we've got a whole other episode
[138:52] sometime to go through uh the rest of
[138:55] them. We haven't we haven't blown it all
[138:57] now.
[138:58] >> Yeah, because at that point we start
[139:00] fun man.
[139:01] >> Exactly. Exactly. That and that's when
[139:03] things start to change a lot. So, but
[139:06] yeah, that's uh up through E3 2005.
[139:09] We've covered 10 years of E3 today. It
[139:13] and I feel like we've only just
[139:14] scratched the surface. Like this is such
[139:16] a big topic, but it's fun to talk about
[139:18] and think back, especially for those
[139:20] that maybe didn't experience it. Like
[139:23] it's just like this was where you would
[139:24] start to get information about things.
[139:26] And it was one of the only places where
[139:28] new stuff was actually shown or
[139:31] announced. You didn't have any other
[139:33] means to learn about this. And it was
[139:35] really really exciting. I mean this
[139:37] conversation is just like really dug up
[139:40] like a lot of like just emotions I'd
[139:42] forgotten about of just the excite just
[139:44] the excitement of this and you know how
[139:47] revolutionary it was to start to see
[139:49] video and live video and stuff like
[139:51] that. Like this was so in its infancy
[139:54] and like people just can't understand
[139:56] today like how just the very concept of
[139:59] being able to have access to that stuff
[140:02] visually was just so exciting. Like just
[140:05] it was so exciting.
[140:07] >> It really was. It was so exciting. And
[140:10] there's a lot more to talk about when we
[140:11] get to the next episode on this. We'll
[140:13] figure out when we do it soon. And
[140:14] hopefully you guys enjoyed this. But for
[140:16] now, I want to thank you guys for uh
[140:19] being here with me as we kind of waited
[140:21] through all of this.
[140:23] >> Yeah, of course.
[140:23] >> That was great.
[140:24] >> And it was great to have you back here,
[140:26] Audi. It's been a while, but it's really
[140:28] nice to have you back on.
[140:30] >> I'll be back next time.
[140:32] >> Excellent. Excellent. And hopefully
[140:34] you'll be back next time. If you made it
[140:36] all the way to the end of the show, I
[140:37] want to personally thank you for doing
[140:39] so because it is a long, long show. We
[140:42] talked about a lot today. Uh, but I had
[140:44] fun talking about it and we'll be back
[140:46] in two weeks with the next episode of
[140:48] the DFresher Super Show. See you next
[140:50] time.