[0:30] Let's rewind. Rewind.
[0:37] >> Welcome back to Screen Crush Rewind. I'm
[0:39] your host, Ryan Ary, and today we are
[0:40] talking about House of the Dragons
[0:42] season 3, episode 2. Did we like it? Did
[0:44] we hate it? Was it mediocre? Do we want
[0:45] more fights? We're going to get to the
[0:47] bottom of all that today. And as always
[0:49] guys, keep your comments coming. We got
[0:50] a great one already I can't wait to
[0:52] address from Sen Sim Vanderbrink which
[0:54] brings up a good point. And super chats
[0:56] are always encouraged but not required.
[0:58] I want to quickly say that here on
[1:00] Screen Crush Rewind. We have a massive
[1:01] week coming up. We got to talk about
[1:05] Supergirl. We almost talked about that
[1:06] today, but we we're going to talk about
[1:08] Supergirl tomorrow. We are going to be
[1:10] talking about uh some big Marvel news
[1:12] that has dropped throughout the week on
[1:14] Wednesday and then probably more Marvel
[1:16] news after that. It seems like
[1:17] everything is happening in July. So, I
[1:19] cannot wait to talk to you guys about
[1:20] this and talk to our rotating panel of
[1:22] guests who I should start bringing on
[1:24] right now. First of all, I'm so happy to
[1:26] have her on. Uh the person who wrote our
[1:29] House of the Dragon breakdowns,
[1:30] including our exceptional breakdown we
[1:33] posted last night, Miss Harriet
[1:34] Lingalan, right? What's going on,
[1:35] Harriet?
[1:36] >> Hey, I'm so excited to talk about this
[1:38] episode.
[1:40] >> I Yeah, me too. I don't want to spoil if
[1:43] I'm excited because I hated it or loved
[1:44] it. We'll have to save that for later,
[1:46] but um I'm excited to get everybody else
[1:48] on. And of course, we have friend of the
[1:50] channel, co-host of the Comic Book Club
[1:51] podcast, the guy who's always on hold,
[1:54] Mr. Alex Galvin. What's going on, Alex?
[1:56] >> Uh yeah, sorry. I'm on with auto High
[1:58] Towers people, and it's just it keeps
[2:01] going. Uh I don't know. I've been on
[2:03] hold for a really long time. They keep
[2:04] being like, "Hey, hang on. Don't lose
[2:06] your head." I don't know what that
[2:08] means, but I'm just going to I'll put
[2:09] the phone down for now. I'll put the
[2:11] phone down. And that's a good time to
[2:12] acknowledge spoiler warning for all
[2:14] things House of the Dragon season 3. Oh
[2:18] gosh, they're going to come get me in
[2:20] the comments. And finally, uh, former
[2:22] congressional candidate and intern we
[2:24] fire at the end of every video, Mr.
[2:26] Cameron Casy. What's going on, Cam?
[2:29] >> I'm just excited to talk about this. I'm
[2:31] I happen to be more excited to talk
[2:33] about this one than I was about last
[2:34] week's.
[2:36] >> Yeah, I am, too. And I wanted to
[2:38] specifically bring you guys on. I know
[2:39] not everybody watching this watched our
[2:41] video last week because you guys had
[2:43] legit complaints about the first episode
[2:45] last week and Cameron, you reshaped my
[2:48] brain when you I didn't realize this
[2:50] that they originally intended to end
[2:52] season 2 at the battle of the goollet,
[2:53] but because of strikes and other
[2:55] Hollywood things, they had to put it
[2:57] here. And I do think the first episode
[2:58] would have been a much better capper to
[3:01] that season. You know, usually in Game
[3:03] of Thrones, we're used to the
[3:04] penultimate episode having a big fight
[3:06] or a big event, death of Ned Stark, and
[3:09] the following episode being Fallout. And
[3:11] I kind of feel like the first two
[3:12] episodes of this season feel like they
[3:15] should have been at the end of season
[3:17] two. Um, but I'm just I want to start
[3:19] off by just hearing what you guys
[3:21] thought. And again, let us know in the
[3:22] comments. Um, let's just go around the
[3:24] table. Harriet, go right ahead. What you
[3:26] think?
[3:28] Um, I mean, I think this is one of my
[3:29] favorite episodes of the show, uh,
[3:31] period. I think, uh, it's just
[3:34] fantastic. There's like almost nothing
[3:36] about it that I would change. Um, I
[3:38] think it's honestly I like where it is
[3:40] in the season because I think having
[3:42] this happen in episode two of a season
[3:45] really leads us up to like, especially
[3:47] for people who have not read the book of
[3:49] like where is it going to go from here,
[3:54] >> Alex? Uh, sure. Couldn't agree more.
[3:57] This was thrilling. I mean, I'd go
[3:59] farther to say like this is one of the
[4:01] best episodes in the Game of Thrones
[4:03] franchise, particularly like it sets up
[4:05] all the pieces so neatly in the first
[4:07] half hour and then everything in the
[4:10] second half hour. I mean, I admitted the
[4:12] last time I haven't read Fire and Blood
[4:13] specifically, but not knowing where it
[4:15] was going, watching everything that is
[4:17] going on, I was like, "This is going to
[4:18] go wrong. This is going to go wrong at
[4:19] any second. This cannot be happening.
[4:21] They cannot just be one does not simply
[4:23] walk into Kim King's Landing like that
[4:26] and then it happens and obviously it
[4:29] does horrific things happen right at the
[4:32] end of the episode but the horrific
[4:34] emotional things and I think that's what
[4:36] worked so well about this episode for me
[4:38] versus the previous episode is we had
[4:40] the bombass but not necessarily for me
[4:42] as a viewer the emotional stakes here it
[4:46] wasn't that this was a quiet episode
[4:48] necessarily but the things that were
[4:50] happening
[4:51] were so based in the emotion of the
[4:53] characters and the actors particularly
[4:55] Emma Darcy which this is like
[4:58] >> em me Emmy all over it like this
[5:00] clinched the Emmy this episode from the
[5:02] first scene to the last scene just
[5:05] absolutely incredible work I was
[5:07] goosebumped all over the entire time.
[5:10] >> Yeah and Harriet after Cameron talks I
[5:12] do you had some great points in the
[5:13] Easter egg video about her act and I
[5:15] can't wait for you to tell everybody.
[5:16] But Cam, what did you think of the
[5:17] episode? Um, I mean it's like it was
[5:20] just such a phenomenal finale to season
[5:22] two. Um,
[5:25] moment when Emma, who again is just such
[5:28] an extraordinary performer. Uh, when
[5:30] Emma
[5:31] >> just looks forward at at what Reineer
[5:33] has done in we we're past spoiled
[5:36] territory right?
[5:38] >> Yeah. I would
[5:40] >> spoilers every
[5:44] I spoiled it in my intro. Rea's
[5:46] Reineer's look at the end of the episode
[5:48] sitting on the iron throne and just that
[5:50] look of at what cost where Raine is
[5:55] finally getting what Reineer has wanted
[5:57] for so long and immediately starts
[5:59] questioning but was it worth all of
[6:01] this. It was just so good and you know
[6:04] >> I'm not the biggest fan of House of the
[6:06] Dragon. I have so many issues with it
[6:08] but it's just hard to deny that this
[6:10] episode was just pretty riveting top to
[6:12] bottom. I mean you know my what with
[6:15] last week we had so much of the episode
[6:18] going to these scenes that existed to
[6:21] contextualize the season because it's
[6:23] been two years since we've watched it
[6:25] and I think a lot of the scenes in the
[6:27] first last episode
[6:28] >> were just were just such a drag and not
[6:31] memorable and in my opinion a little
[6:34] annoying
[6:35] >> this whole episode I mean every minute
[6:37] every character is just chewing up the
[6:39] screen um Egon's scene especially was
[6:42] just a testament to what a performance
[6:44] performance Tom Glen Carney is giving
[6:46] and how he's doing so much with so
[6:49] little. Like Egon does not have that
[6:52] much screen time for a character so
[6:54] memorable. Um but a
[6:56] >> and in House of the Dragons and Fire and
[6:58] Blood not that you know he's not like a
[7:01] you know central you you don't see him
[7:03] for a long time. That's all I'll say.
[7:05] >> Yeah. So so there's obviously a lot of
[7:07] differences. I I I've said this before,
[7:09] like I don't really care when there are
[7:11] differences from source material as long
[7:13] as those consolidations are being made
[7:15] to improve the story or if they're
[7:17] necessary consolidations. Some battles
[7:19] are going to need to happen offscreen.
[7:21] That's just a thing. Uh interesting
[7:22] tidbit in Fire and Blood, Gwane High
[7:25] Totower,
[7:26] >> the character that we see hanging out
[7:27] with Kristen Cole, waxing poetically a
[7:29] lot, he was actually killed when Reineer
[7:31] took King's Landing. who was in King's
[7:33] Landing and was stabbed after calling
[7:35] one of the Goldcakes a traitor. Um, but
[7:38] they moved the character over to give
[7:40] someone to for Kristen Cole to talk to.
[7:42] Uh, I thought it was great. I really
[7:44] thought Emma Darcy's performance was
[7:46] just extraordinary and I'm excited for
[7:50] the first episode of season 3.
[7:53] Uh Harry, just I want to circle back to
[7:55] touch on the acting choices she made. Uh
[7:58] Emma Darcy and the u the final scene
[8:02] there that you addressed in her Easter
[8:03] egg video.
[8:05] Yeah, I mean I think um
[8:09] I I think this performance from Emma
[8:12] Darcy I think like it it's a incredible
[8:15] incredible performance and seeing that
[8:17] those last few minutes. I mean plus the
[8:19] opening scene with them with um Jayce's
[8:23] death is incredible. Um like I was
[8:25] watching it
[8:26] >> last night um with some friends and
[8:29] everyone was silent during that scene
[8:31] because it was so like heart-wrenching.
[8:33] But that final moment
[8:34] >> when she's yelling at his corpse, what
[8:36] have you done? And you think she's
[8:37] yelling at the people in the room. Yeah,
[8:39] it's incredible.
[8:40] >> Um but that those final moments um the
[8:44] way Reneer finally hardens to like
[8:49] taking this violent action. I mean, I've
[8:51] seen a lot of complaints that um like
[8:54] why is Rene still reluctant to kill?
[8:58] Like why is some you know Otto deserved
[9:01] it? Like etc., etc. And I don't think
[9:04] any of that is untrue. Like I don't
[9:05] think she felt morally like uh that he
[9:09] didn't deserve to die. It's just that uh
[9:12] there's a difference between deciding
[9:14] that someone needs to die and actually
[9:16] killing them
[9:17] >> and giving them a trial.
[9:19] >> Well, I also think just
[9:21] >> Oh, wait. Hold on. Hold on. Harry,
[9:22] finish your point. Finish your point.
[9:23] This is the first time what?
[9:25] >> Uh this is the first time she's uh the
[9:28] character has killed anyone. And I think
[9:29] that it's it's I I wouldn't expect that
[9:32] to have gone any differently. So,
[9:34] >> and I want to flag real quick. I uh use
[9:36] the wrong pronouns just now when I was
[9:38] talking about Amadar. So, they use they
[9:39] them pronouns. That's my fault because
[9:40] she is a female character and I always
[9:43] think of her in or think of them in that
[9:44] way. Go ahead, Cam. What were you going
[9:45] to say?
[9:46] >> I was just going to say adding on to
[9:47] that point. Um, I also feel like on an
[9:50] emotional level, no matter what he did,
[9:54] uh, as part of, you know, the UN Rea
[9:57] getting usurped, as part of the whole
[9:59] Green, um, conspiracy, I do think
[10:02] there's a degree to which Otto probably
[10:04] still reminds Reier a little bit of her
[10:07] father. And I do think, you know, when
[10:10] all said and done, even though she sees
[10:11] Otto as someone who ultimately exploited
[10:14] and manipulated um Viseris, I do think
[10:18] that she was thinking of her father in
[10:19] that moment. And she was thinking of how
[10:22] >> even even with everything that happened,
[10:24] Viseris did see Otto as a very steady
[10:27] and reliable and supportive not only
[10:29] hand, but friend to him. And I feel like
[10:31] that was part of the psychology of that
[10:33] scene.
[10:34] >> Let me ask you guys this about Otto. So,
[10:36] I I was going to save the ending stuff
[10:37] for later, but let's talk about um let's
[10:39] talk about the ending now. Then I want
[10:40] to go back and talk about each character
[10:42] and specifically the battle of the
[10:43] gullet and address some of the
[10:44] complaints we had last last week. So,
[10:46] with auto high tower, you I've pointed
[10:48] out in breakdowns in the past and Harry
[10:50] you have in your breakdowns. This is a
[10:51] guy who is from the family that
[10:54] traditionally had power in Westeros, the
[10:57] high towers, old town that was the seed
[11:00] of power of knowledge. And then when
[11:01] Aegon landed and conquered the seven
[11:04] kingdoms or nine kingdoms depending on
[11:05] who you're talking to um or actually six
[11:08] kingdoms because he didn't conquer
[11:09] Dorne, whatever. When he did that, he
[11:11] shifted power away from Oldtown and away
[11:13] from the High Towers. And Otto High
[11:14] Tower is the second son who was set to
[11:17] not inherit land or title. So he
[11:20] definitely is trying to put his
[11:22] grandson. He pushed his granddaughter
[11:24] toward Viserus in order to, you know,
[11:27] put his family line on the throne and
[11:29] maybe even motivated in a way to
[11:31] outshine his older brother. However, do
[11:33] you think there's more to him than that?
[11:35] Like, do you genuinely think that he
[11:37] believed a woman for a queen would
[11:40] thrust the realm into war? Did he always
[11:42] think that he was doing the right thing,
[11:43] not just for his family, but for the
[11:45] kingdom?
[11:49] Um, here you go. I mean, I I I can speak
[11:52] to this. I uh I genuinely do believe
[11:55] that Otto
[11:57] believed to some degree that Reneer
[11:59] being crowned queen would plunge the
[12:01] realm into war. And I don't even
[12:03] necessarily think that he is wrong
[12:06] entirely about that. I think it could
[12:08] have been different. It could have gone
[12:09] differently if everyone on that small
[12:13] council had actually supported her as
[12:16] opposed to constantly undermining and
[12:18] plotting to user her.
[12:20] >> But I do think there were always going
[12:22] to be people who uh Westeros is a very
[12:25] patriarchal society and changing that is
[12:28] always going to create conflict. Um on
[12:31] the on the other hand though Otto
[12:33] definitely also wanted his grandson to
[12:35] be the king. So, it's not like it was
[12:38] 100% selfless. Um, I think there's
[12:41] there's a bit of both. He's a
[12:42] complicated character and an another
[12:45] excellent performance. I'll I'll miss
[12:47] I'll miss seeing that character.
[12:51] >> Just to hop on that real quick. Um, I
[12:53] think that two two things. Number one,
[12:56] if there's one thing George R. Martin
[12:58] loves in Ice and Fire, it's
[13:00] self-fulfilling prophecies. You see this
[13:02] with Cersei's prophecy. You see this
[13:04] with what's how some people interpret
[13:06] the prince who was promised. George
[13:09] loves making prophecies and allowing
[13:11] them to fulfill themselves. And I think
[13:13] one of those is a woman cannot be the
[13:16] queen of Westeros. I think there's this
[13:17] idea that the civil war happened because
[13:21] everybody was telling each other that a
[13:23] woman could not rule Westeros. And it's
[13:26] like, okay, yeah, well that's true if
[13:28] you say it. Like if you all choose to
[13:30] not let a woman rule Westeros, but if
[13:32] all of you had come together and
[13:33] accepted that radio would be the queen,
[13:36] >> it would have gone fine. It was all of
[13:37] you manufacturing this issue. And not to
[13:41] get too political, but I feel like
[13:43] that's the case with certain women and
[13:45] marginalized groups in politics, too.
[13:47] People will say, "Oh, a woman can never
[13:48] be president. Oh, a person of this
[13:51] specific race or background can't be
[13:53] president." It's like, yeah, well, if
[13:54] you keep saying that over and over
[13:56] again, it's true. But what if you just
[13:58] said maybe a woman can be president, you
[14:01] know? So, I think that there's a lot of
[14:03] self-fulfilling prophecy stuff there.
[14:04] With Auto High Tower, there's this very
[14:06] common character in Ice and Fire, which
[14:09] is like the scheming second son or the
[14:11] scheming person who came from a sort of
[14:15] humble background like Littlefinger for
[14:17] example. Littlefinger inherited like a
[14:19] small little tower with a couple of
[14:21] rooms somewhere off in the veil nobody
[14:24] cares about. and he schemes his way up
[14:26] to the top and uses power in this very
[14:28] specific way. And in old George R.
[14:30] Martin blog posts, he talked about how
[14:32] traumatized he was by JFK's death. He
[14:34] was from a family that really the
[14:37] Kennedes, John F. Kennedy was like a
[14:39] political hero of his. And if you think
[14:41] of George R. Martin where one of the
[14:43] fundamental traumas of his young life
[14:45] was seeing Kennedy get assassinated.
[14:48] Then you think of Jace
[14:49] >> who would have been a promising king, a
[14:51] young guy, a handsome guy really liked.
[14:53] You think of Bor Brickspear in 1978,
[14:57] >> this young guy who was about to be the
[14:59] king that might have just changed
[15:00] everything for the better, but died too
[15:02] soon, too tragically. You think of Rob.
[15:04] Poor and poor Joffrey who was cut down
[15:07] way too short. Yeah.
[15:09] >> Rob Stark, Baylor Bra, a lot of the
[15:12] Targaryen sons, if you're reading Fire
[15:14] and Blood, generally speaking, if it
[15:16] seems like one of them is going to be
[15:18] good, that means they are going to
[15:20] suffer a
[15:20] >> Rhaegar.
[15:22] So, well, depending on your
[15:24] interpretation of Rhaegar, you know,
[15:25] that's so,
[15:26] >> oh, no, no, I forgot who I was talking
[15:28] to. Never mind going down that road.
[15:31] >> Auto high tower a little bit as Lynen B.
[15:33] Johnson. I think of him as somebody
[15:34] >> Oh, that's a that's a great analogy.
[15:38] That's fantastic.
[15:39] >> You know what I'm saying? I think Yeah,
[15:41] I think George thinks a lot about that
[15:42] stuff. I think he thinks a lot about
[15:44] >> because Lyndon Johnson was somebody who
[15:45] Oh, god, you've said it now. Lyndon
[15:47] Johnson was somebody who, you know,
[15:49] wanted the presidency his entire career.
[15:50] He knew everyone in the Senate. He knew
[15:52] he could make things happen. He had a
[15:53] New Deal like list of priorities. And
[15:56] he's kind of like Otto High Totower, the
[15:57] most experienced guy who wouldn't have
[15:59] been anybody's first choice.
[16:01] And that is my
[16:02] >> I love that.
[16:05] >> Um, that is a great point and I'm a big
[16:07] fan of that. We just had a comment. Let
[16:09] me find it real quick to make sure I get
[16:10] the wording right.
[16:12] Even in the King's Guard, misogyny runs
[16:15] rampant from uh, Greeky told us that.
[16:19] That is such a good point. Was it
[16:20] Duskondale? He was the knight who um,
[16:23] maybe ancestor, distant relative Duncan
[16:25] of Duskondale who locked her in her
[16:28] room. And even Jayce said to her in the
[16:30] previous episode, "Well, it's your life
[16:31] for hers because you're going to keep
[16:32] her safe by disobeying her." Not to keep
[16:35] bringing this up, but would they have
[16:37] ever locked a king in a room like that
[16:39] who was of age? You know, absolutely
[16:41] not. So, I thought that was an
[16:43] interesting point, too. Thank you for
[16:44] the comment.
[16:44] >> And before the comments got to us, it's
[16:46] uh Sir Laurent Marbrand was that that um
[16:49] >> Oh, thank you so much. What What did
[16:51] Justin do? Was he uh the one who was
[16:54] with the greens in the
[16:55] >> sir Stefan Darklin was last season um
[16:59] was uh the ancestral seed of Duskandale
[17:02] but um I forget in what way Dusk and Oh,
[17:05] it's because Aegon and Laris were
[17:07] talking about going there that we
[17:08] brought up Dusk and Dale.
[17:09] >> Got it. That's right. Thank you so much.
[17:10] I was wrong about that. By the way, I
[17:12] just wanted to mention just before we
[17:13] get away from the Barb Brown thing and
[17:15] to touch on some of the other things, I
[17:16] thought it was very interesting watching
[17:18] the episode a second time knowing that
[17:21] Rea is having trouble chopping it off
[17:24] Otto High Tower's head to see how she
[17:26] reacts to Marbrand who gets down as like
[17:29] chop off my head and she's immediately
[17:32] kind of coming up with excuses and
[17:33] reasons not to do that. And then when
[17:36] she's walking out, she's like, "Have him
[17:38] choose how he wants to die." She's
[17:39] outsourcing it
[17:40] >> to him and then ultimately is
[17:42] confronted. I I really read into it
[17:45] >> since we have never seen her kill
[17:47] anything except for a wild boar on this
[17:49] show that it was like you were saying,
[17:51] Harriet, killing that father figure, but
[17:53] also just like the act of killing, like
[17:55] oneon-one killing is something she has
[17:57] never done. And now she is going to have
[18:00] to make those decisions all the time,
[18:04] every single day. she's been able to put
[18:06] off as this far away thing of yes, I
[18:09] want to be queen, but it's over there
[18:11] and now it's right here and it comes
[18:13] through. Now I'm getting like I'm just
[18:15] sort of meandering, but I just wanted to
[18:17] mention since we haven't mentioned, I
[18:18] thought the direction and writing on
[18:20] this episode as well was phenomenal. And
[18:23] particularly just those shots that are
[18:27] sabotistically so obvious but also so
[18:29] beautiful of Rea walking from the puddle
[18:32] of blood leaving her bloody footprints
[18:34] leading up to the throne finally. Yes.
[18:37] Seeing her sit on the throne and the
[18:39] reflection of the blood like
[18:40] >> chef's kiss. Beautifully beautifully
[18:42] done. And I think her Emma Darcy's uh
[18:45] their performance would not have worked
[18:46] the same way without having a director
[18:49] so good in the chair making sure that
[18:52] that all came through.
[18:54] >> I want to throw this out there too. I in
[18:55] our breakdown. Sorry Harriet. Uh we we
[18:58] didn't really draw parallels between
[18:59] that bore episode, but it would be
[19:00] interesting to go back and watch that
[19:02] because that was the episode where Otto
[19:05] really started pushing for Viserus to
[19:07] name Aegon the heir and where Rene first
[19:10] shows. You know, she for one thing goes
[19:12] off on a jaunt with Kristen Cole that
[19:15] leads basically lays the groundwork for
[19:17] all of this, but it's also where she
[19:18] demonstrates like, "Yeah, I'm a gentle
[19:20] person, but [ __ ] push me and
[19:22] see what happens because she really
[19:24] takes that boar out and walks into camp
[19:25] with it when the men couldn't find the
[19:28] vaunted white stag. The woman out by
[19:29] herself killed a boar." It might be
[19:31] interesting to see how that episode is
[19:32] microcosm of the war that followed.
[19:34] Sorry, Harry. Go ahead. Actually, my
[19:37] point was related in that um I saw
[19:39] people drawing comparisons which I
[19:40] hadn't thought of uh between the fact
[19:42] that it took um Viseris two strikes to
[19:45] kill the uh deer that they caught in
[19:49] that episode. Um
[19:50] >> very good.
[19:52] >> Uh it's Reneier was struggling in a
[19:54] similar way. Um
[19:56] >> that's right.
[19:59] >> So she was trying to be like her dad.
[20:01] really goes to show how uh how sharp how
[20:03] sharp Valyrian Steel is because if you
[20:05] recall correctly Theon Greyjoy back in
[20:08] season two of Game of Thrones when he
[20:09] was beheading I think it was Mr. Luen um
[20:12] in Winterfell after he took Winterfell.
[20:14] He he had a regular sword and it took
[20:17] him like eight to 10 hacks to behead
[20:20] this guy. And Reineer, who I watched I I
[20:22] watched the scene twice just to be sure,
[20:24] didn't look like Reineer was even
[20:26] putting that much of her weight into it.
[20:28] It seemed like she was sort of passively
[20:30] doing the beheading.
[20:31] >> Uh two strokes by the standard of what I
[20:35] understand medieval beheading to be.
[20:38] pretty impressive for uh was was it dark
[20:40] sister?
[20:41] >> Maybe she missed her calling. Yes, I
[20:42] know actually it was Jayce's sword,
[20:44] wasn't it, that she took or was Jayce's
[20:46] sword not blaring?
[20:48] >> I think she was damaged for the
[20:50] beheading. But she did take Jayce's
[20:52] sword to King's Landing with her, which
[20:53] is a detail I we I learned from the uh
[20:55] the making of it was after the episode,
[20:58] >> which is very cool. But Damon gave her
[21:00] Dark Sister for that.
[21:03] >> Yeah. Uh the one thing I will say that
[21:06] is just again one of those things that's
[21:08] sort of out of the showrunners hands and
[21:10] this is more the result of just the
[21:12] state of the industry is auto. You know
[21:16] the auto scene was really cool for me
[21:18] because I have all of the Ice and Fire
[21:20] books behind me and I'm obsessed with
[21:21] the series. For your average viewer,
[21:24] your average viewer hasn't seen auto in
[21:26] like four years.
[21:29] >> We since the Biden administration. Yeah.
[21:31] since since the Biden administration.
[21:33] Yeah, we got some great scenes in
[21:35] episodes one and two of season two with
[21:37] Otto. Uh there was a scene the scene
[21:40] where Agon um sent him off and appointed
[21:44] Kristen Cole as the hand. The acting
[21:46] from all of them was really really good
[21:48] and and Otto was definitely a part of
[21:50] some great scenes in early season 2.
[21:51] Then he disappears for most of season
[21:54] two and appears only in a brief shot
[21:56] where he's captured at the very end of
[21:58] the finale. I have a feeling that was
[22:00] something that they threw in last minute
[22:02] to remind the viewers that there was
[22:04] going to be more Otto once they found
[22:05] out that the final two episodes weren't
[22:07] going to air. Um, so Otto gets brought
[22:10] out at the end of this episode and it is
[22:12] a massive moment and it is a massive
[22:15] conclusion to this one part of Reineer's
[22:18] story and frankly this one part of the
[22:20] history of King's Landing. But your
[22:23] average viewer hasn't spent a
[22:25] substantive amount of time with Otto in
[22:28] so long that I feel like the people who
[22:31] recently binged seasons one and two to
[22:33] remember what was going on before season
[22:35] 3 started probably had a little bit
[22:37] better an experience with that scene
[22:38] than someone who saw it.
[22:40] >> Right. That's like that's that's must be
[22:42] Allison's dad.
[22:45] >> The guy who played the
[22:48] >> That's what I mostly know him from. and
[22:49] also his great cameo in Venom 3. That
[22:52] totally made sense. Uh Olivia Davies
[22:54] just left us a comment reminded us that
[22:55] Theon killed Sir Rodrik and didn't kill
[22:58] um Maester Leuen.
[23:01] >> Who killed Mr.
[23:02] >> himself? I don't know somebody. Or maybe
[23:04] maybe they're wrong and I don't know. I
[23:06] I'm just saying that's a comment.
[23:08] >> I think it was Yeah, Roger Castle, Jory
[23:09] Castle's father. Um
[23:11] >> yeah, because Mr. Leuen is still alive
[23:13] when when uh
[23:15] >> the Ramsey takes over arrive.
[23:20] Okay, I want to quickly bring this up,
[23:22] guys. I don't know if you've seen this
[23:23] yet. If you watch our breakdowns, you've
[23:24] heard me talk about it. I love this
[23:26] freaking shirt. This is the Dance of the
[23:28] Dragons tour shirt. It's got dragons on
[23:30] the front. It's got uh Seven Kingdoms
[23:32] tour at the bottom and on the back. This
[23:34] absolutely amazing list of all of the
[23:37] different battles in the Game of Thrones
[23:38] font. I love this shirt. Mine's in the
[23:40] mail. I can't wait to show it to you
[23:41] guys in person. And we've got a couple
[23:43] other new shirts here I want to show
[23:44] off. Um, they're not a big deal in the
[23:47] show yet, but trust me, the winter
[23:48] wolves are some of the coolest Starks or
[23:50] coolest characters in Game of Thrones.
[23:52] So, this is a tribute to the winter
[23:54] wolves. We came to die shirt. Comes in
[23:56] multiple colors. And then one more we're
[23:57] showing for the first time in a live
[23:58] stream. Duncan egg. I really wish we
[24:02] would have thought of this one when uh
[24:04] Night of the Seven Kingdoms was on. It's
[24:05] got the elm tree with the star above it.
[24:07] And links for those and more are down
[24:09] below. Thank you very much.
[24:11] Um, I want to bring up, let's just go
[24:14] through some of the characters and talk
[24:15] about the fallout from the battle. So,
[24:17] last week, Alex, you brought up you
[24:19] couldn't really tell who was winning the
[24:20] battle. The sails were the same color.
[24:22] And I brought that into this episode. I
[24:25] was thinking about it and about how
[24:27] these people, the creators of the show,
[24:29] would know how to stage whether or not,
[24:31] you know, a battle was being won by one
[24:33] side. But I don't think the battle was
[24:35] about that. I think it was supposed to
[24:36] be personal stakes. And now I'm thinking
[24:38] that this episode was supposed to be a
[24:40] mystery until we found out. Was that
[24:42] your read on it? And do you, if so, do
[24:43] you think it was successful?
[24:45] >> Um, I don't know if I necessarily read
[24:46] it as a mystery so much as I changed my
[24:49] opinion, at least in this episode, that
[24:51] it was more about
[24:53] >> nobody really won because I think that
[24:55] was kind of the theme. I mean, that's
[24:56] the theme of Game of Thrones in a
[24:58] certain sense, but like certainly this
[25:00] episode like Rea winning the throne, but
[25:03] sort of potentially losing everything in
[25:05] that final moment with Allison, you work
[25:08] backwards from there. Everything comes
[25:10] out of that. Nobody is winning at any
[25:12] point. And that's what you get from just
[25:14] seeing the wreckage and the gullet.
[25:16] There's no winners or losers there. You
[25:18] have, I think, unless I'm wrong, it was
[25:20] the triarchy. Were they fleeing on shore
[25:22] at the beginning there and then getting
[25:24] cut down? Because to the point that
[25:26] we're getting at like as a more casual
[25:29] viewer, it wasn't entirely clear who
[25:30] anybody was because they're not like
[25:32] we're the triarchy. We got to get out of
[25:34] here. You know, nobody's and I'm glad
[25:36] they didn't, but it was more about like
[25:38] this is chaos and everybody is running
[25:42] off, trying to get away, trying to
[25:44] survive. It's the same thing that
[25:45] happens on that scene with Aegon and
[25:48] Laris on the road where it's just two
[25:50] armies coming at each other and they're
[25:52] doing their semic comedy thing in the
[25:55] middle there just trying to scurry off
[25:56] and escape. So, it was a long way around
[25:59] to saying that like I didn't need that
[26:02] as much in this episode because we did
[26:04] focus it on the personal. in the middle
[26:06] of the wreckage of the Battle of the
[26:08] Gullet, we honed in on Allan and Baya
[26:12] and what was going on with them. Uh,
[26:14] which I thought was great versus what I
[26:17] saw in the previous episode. Um, you got
[26:20] those really personal relationships.
[26:23] They were talking about Corass. They're
[26:24] looking for Corass. I wish it was a
[26:26] little harder to find him versus he was
[26:28] just kind of hanging on a rock, but
[26:30] that's one tiny quibble. Otherwise,
[26:32] great episode.
[26:33] big big guy big big white hair
[26:36] >> dragons
[26:37] isue that I kind of have with this show
[26:40] um I don't know how I would fix it
[26:42] there's a couple things where I'd be
[26:43] like here's what I would do this one I
[26:44] don't know I feel like on this show
[26:48] specifically in a way that was not true
[26:49] of Game of Thrones I sort of struggle to
[26:52] remember why Harrenhal is so important
[26:55] for them to hold I feel like the script
[26:58] does not go out of its way to remind us
[27:00] that much like Why does this big black
[27:04] castle that constantly seems empty and
[27:07] burnt out? Why is this such a
[27:09] centerpiece for this war? And I
[27:11] understand as somebody who reads his
[27:13] books, you know, the placement of
[27:14] Harrenhole, the size of Harrenhal, how
[27:16] difficult it is to take. I I get that.
[27:19] But if I were a casual viewer, I would
[27:21] just be like, why are why is everybody
[27:24] obsessing over the black spooky castle?
[27:26] I'm very nervous that some of the leaks
[27:28] are true. And I'm not going to spoil
[27:30] anything in the leaks, but just based on
[27:32] what I saw in this episode, I'm very
[27:34] nervous that we're gonna get an Aemon
[27:37] plot this season that is pretty much a
[27:39] retread of what happened with Damon last
[27:41] season where he was having trippy dreams
[27:44] in Harrenhal while um what's her name?
[27:48] >> I don't know. Am I the only one who kind
[27:49] of wants to see what his dreams are and
[27:50] if they're different? And that's the
[27:51] next thing I was going to break up bring
[27:53] up.
[27:54] >> It's more incest. It's like he already
[27:56] kissed Allison last week.
[27:58] >> Yeah. like and there was
[28:00] >> maybe we can make it go further this
[28:01] time. I don't know. Maybe like I don't
[28:03] know. Like maybe we broke the sale. We
[28:05] can do something else with it. I I don't
[28:07] know. I don't know.
[28:08] >> It's Ryan's take on House the Dragon. We
[28:10] need more incest.
[28:11] >> Yeah, I'm from southern Ohio. I don't
[28:13] know. Look, Damon Damon um in this
[28:17] episode, you know, we saw him humbled
[28:19] last season and I I personally am of the
[28:22] mind I love all the Damon [ __ ] last
[28:23] season. I love seeing this like spoiled
[28:26] brat of a prince get humbled in
[28:29] different ways and learn how hard it is
[28:31] to rule, how hard it is to be political
[28:34] and then seeing what Viserus saw or at
[28:36] least some version of Aegon's dream and
[28:39] understanding the future and then
[28:40] understanding he is a very small part of
[28:43] this larger puzzle. That was a great
[28:45] arc. And then this episode I do love
[28:48] though that he's not, you know, coming
[28:49] in like Gandalf the White totally
[28:51] changed. He's still such an arrogant
[28:53] prick. Like the way he treats, and no
[28:56] spoilers for the books, but the way he
[28:57] treats the dragon seeds and and Alice,
[29:00] not Yeah. Alice is like, "Dude, this
[29:03] woman saved your ass." Like, you would
[29:05] be nothing without her. And you won't
[29:07] even lie to her right now and say,
[29:09] "Well, yeah, I'll talk. See if I can get
[29:10] you a castle. I don't know." Like, you
[29:12] never know. Maybe we can. We got a
[29:14] female queen now. You know, maybe we can
[29:15] do something for you. And then I just on
[29:19] the other hand, and I want everybody's
[29:20] thoughts on Damon in this episode. It's
[29:23] interesting to see that he's the one now
[29:25] who is talking to Reneer and saying,
[29:26] "Remember the prophecy. Remember the
[29:28] real reason you're doing this because
[29:29] Damon used to be the person who pursued
[29:30] power for the sake of power. Now he's
[29:32] the one that has a higher calling." I'll
[29:33] I'll talk about Damon all day. I love
[29:35] this character. What do you guys think?
[29:37] I
[29:37] >> I agree with you. I thought he was great
[29:39] in this episode. And there's really
[29:41] complicated work going on from Matt
[29:42] Smith because it does hone down to
[29:46] really personal petty stuff like what he
[29:49] does with oh my gosh I'm Myria uh where
[29:52] obviously they have like a very deep
[29:54] history going on there but and he kind
[29:57] of can't let go of it until he does. The
[30:00] way that scene was staged with him going
[30:03] back on old pettiness, her pushing back
[30:05] on him, and ultimately them just sitting
[30:07] down on the bench, I thought was really
[30:09] nicely a nice way of saying that, yeah,
[30:11] they're not going to let go of this
[30:13] stuff, but ultimately they are both
[30:14] there for Rea and making sure Rea gets
[30:17] what she needs to get. And I thought
[30:19] that was a nice way of putting it. It
[30:21] allows them to be human, fleshed out,
[30:24] rounded out characters in the middle of
[30:26] these very big stakes. And then moving
[30:28] into what you're talking about, Ryan, I
[30:30] thought that next scene with Rea
[30:32] barereft over the death of Jace, sobbing
[30:34] on her bed, Damon sort of slow playing
[30:38] it, getting into being like telling her
[30:40] what happened, saying that she needs to
[30:42] step up, she needs to go with Allison's
[30:45] plan, and then ultimately pivoting to
[30:48] it's the fate of the world. It it's
[30:49] bigger than us. So, I think there's a
[30:52] level he understands that, but he also
[30:54] can't turn off being a total a-hole at
[30:57] any point. Also,
[31:00] >> Harry, what do you think?
[31:02] >> Yeah, I mean, I think uh that little
[31:05] smirk when he walks past Misaria when
[31:08] they're leaving, uh, is just like the
[31:11] epitome of that character. And yeah, I I
[31:14] loved that interaction between Damon and
[31:16] Misaria, like that power play going on
[31:18] there. Um, and I really hope um that
[31:24] Reneer uh kissing Misaria last season
[31:27] wasn't a one-off. I hope we get some
[31:29] more resolution of that plotline. Um,
[31:34] uh, not just because I would like to see
[31:36] it, but um, I think that uh, I I hope
[31:42] that Aean's plotline isn't a complete
[31:44] retreading of Damon's just because I
[31:46] want them to do something different. But
[31:48] I would like to see how Aean's character
[31:51] could undergo some kind of
[31:53] transformation because he has been a
[31:55] very static character and I would be
[31:57] interested to see what they do with him.
[32:00] >> So back to that Alice, right, last
[32:02] season we were like, well, what does she
[32:03] want? She must be a green sear and she's
[32:05] trying to protect the world from the ice
[32:07] zombies. In this episode, we find out
[32:09] yes and a castle, please. Um, I wonder
[32:13] because that makes me think, okay, well,
[32:15] she was doing that for Damon to stop the
[32:16] thing, right? Maybe Damon's key to this.
[32:18] Maybe Reneer is key to this. And we've
[32:20] seen Game of Thrones. We know Reneer's
[32:22] efforts and Aegon's. It doesn't matter
[32:24] like in the grand scheme of things. The
[32:26] Targaryen dynasty falls in a couple
[32:27] hundred years or so. So I wonder if then
[32:30] she can you if that would be her
[32:32] motivation for doing something similar
[32:33] with Aean and controlling him because
[32:35] she knows she exists at this time and
[32:36] place uh depending on how old she is,
[32:39] which is up for debate. And she knows
[32:41] the long night's going to happen or not
[32:43] happen. It's got nothing to do with her
[32:44] and she just wants a place to put her
[32:45] feet up and keep warm. Cam, what do you
[32:47] think?
[32:49] >> I mean, I I don't know. I think that
[32:50] with Prophecy, the showrunners are
[32:53] probably going to take the chance to
[32:56] engage with the stuff that's more from
[32:58] the World of Ice and Fire world book
[33:00] than it is from the main Ice and Fire
[33:02] series and from the Fire and Blood book.
[33:04] Uh, spoiler alert. You don't need to
[33:07] flash the sign again, but spoiler alert.
[33:10] There are photos that have been taken on
[33:12] set of the Green Men who are characters.
[33:16] >> The Green Men.
[33:17] >> Yeah. Yeah. They flashed Harry. Weren't
[33:19] they the Antler Guys, right?
[33:20] >> Yeah. The We saw for a moment. Um, and
[33:23] >> so spoiler alert for something that
[33:25] Cameron didn't know.
[33:26] >> Okay. Well, hypothetically, if we see
[33:28] them again, uh they're characters who
[33:30] are just maybe the most mysterious
[33:32] things in the whole series, and that
[33:35] includes the Shadowlands Beyond Ashai,
[33:37] which are kind of famous for being this
[33:39] thing that George left so vague because
[33:42] he wanted to toy around with it and then
[33:43] just never got to it. And now, because
[33:45] he wrote a million pages of Daenerys
[33:48] Targaryen and Marine, we're probably
[33:50] never going to get to see it. But the
[33:52] green men are these ancient beings in
[33:55] Westeros that seem to have ties to the
[33:57] children of the forest and the first man
[33:59] and potentially the others or the white
[34:01] walkers. Um, and they're on the aisle of
[34:03] faces, which is also one of the most
[34:06] mysterious locations in the series. I
[34:08] personally theorize that the aisle of
[34:10] faces is where the final book that will
[34:13] is totally going to come out of the ice
[34:15] and fire series is going to culminate. I
[34:18] think that Bran is going to go to the
[34:19] aisle of faces to make a new pact with
[34:22] the White Walkers. I don't think that
[34:23] the battle with the White Walkers ends
[34:25] in some giant war. I think that it ends
[34:27] in a pact because George R. Martin is a
[34:29] hippie and he doesn't think war is the
[34:30] answer to anything. Um, but I I I think
[34:34] if you have a season with Aean at
[34:38] Harrenhal and Harrenhal is right next to
[34:40] the aisle of faces, it's right on the
[34:41] God's eye and you have this magic
[34:43] element and you need something for him
[34:45] to do because that actor just like I
[34:47] like I say about everybody, he just
[34:49] chews up his screen time, he's so
[34:51] captivating, I think you might want to
[34:53] get into some of that lore and have a
[34:55] little bit of fun with it because there
[34:57] the what what has already been
[34:59] prophesized is the end to both Damon and
[35:02] Aean is not going to happen until season
[35:04] 4. They're not going to do that this
[35:05] year.
[35:06] >> So, what are we going to do with Aean
[35:07] this year? Because in the book, there
[35:10] isn't really much that he actually does
[35:12] between him taking Harrenhal and his
[35:15] character's ultimate demise. So, what
[35:18] are we going to give him for the next
[35:19] several episodes? And the answer is
[35:22] visions and magic stuff. And I think
[35:24] that we might see some ties to the Green
[35:27] Man. I honestly think we might see some
[35:29] things that people like Elio and Linda,
[35:32] George's uh assistants and editors and
[35:34] stuff, some things that they know about
[35:35] Ice and Fire that the books haven't
[35:37] necessarily
[35:38] >> Oh, interesting.
[35:39] >> I think that that's
[35:40] >> I I even though it looks like it's a
[35:42] retread and we'd be doing the same thing
[35:43] again. I personally am really intrigued.
[35:45] I like when we get into the deep magic.
[35:47] Question for I guess everybody here. Um
[35:50] at this point in history, there is a
[35:51] three-eyed raven. It's just not Brendan
[35:53] Rivers, right? Because isn't that like a
[35:54] title that passes from person to person?
[35:58] >> Depends on what you're citing because as
[36:01] far as we know in the books.
[36:02] >> Okay.
[36:03] >> As far as we know in the books, Brynden
[36:06] Rivers. I mean, he he hasn't even
[36:08] specified that he's Brendan Rivers, by
[36:10] the way. He's just said, "My mother
[36:12] named me Brynden." And we're pretty sure
[36:13] he's Brendan Rivers. But, uh,
[36:15] >> right.
[36:16] >> Blood Raven, as far as we know, is the
[36:18] only person who is assumed to be the
[36:20] three-eyed crow. But not to get into ice
[36:23] and fire fan theory territory, I will
[36:25] say when Bran asks him, "Are you the
[36:27] three-eyed crow?" or in the show it's
[36:29] called the three-eyed raven. When Bran
[36:30] asks him, "Are you the three-eyed crow?"
[36:32] he goes,
[36:33] >> "Crow." Um, so Blood Raven, while he's
[36:38] attached to the weirwood tree, while
[36:39] he's the three-eyed crow, he doesn't
[36:41] know what Bran is talking about when
[36:43] Bran says three-eyed crow. So,
[36:47] >> is the three-eyed crow some other entity
[36:49] or is it just the manifestation?
[36:51] >> Okay.
[36:52] >> Is it just the manifestation of Blood
[36:53] Raven in Bran's dreams? And Blood Raven
[36:56] doesn't really know how he appears in
[36:58] Bran's dreams. But again, Bran didn't
[37:00] say, "Are you the three-eyed crow?" And
[37:02] Blood Raven said, "Yes, it was me all
[37:04] along." He was like, "I don't really
[37:05] know what you're talking about. I'm name
[37:07] my name is Brendan." So, there's a lot
[37:10] of there's a lot of questions that can
[37:11] be answered that I don't necessarily
[37:14] think we might ever get answers to. And
[37:15] I think that if you're going to have a
[37:17] season of a character so captivating as
[37:20] Aean walking around Harrenhal, you might
[37:22] be able to get into a little bit of the
[37:23] lore just to throw the bones just to
[37:25] throw the fans a little bit of a bone
[37:27] >> and to not repeat from the first
[37:29] episode too.
[37:30] >> There's one other aspect and I might be
[37:31] way off base about this because it's
[37:34] based on just how he crawled towards
[37:37] Alice. It was like have to be is he's
[37:40] probably found another mommy figure,
[37:42] right? Like that's what he's obsessed
[37:43] with. And I I don't know. Alice wants
[37:46] Harrenhal so badly for whatever reason
[37:50] it is long-term or short term that I
[37:53] feel like we're going to get a little
[37:56] something there as well.
[37:57] >> I hope it turns out that Alice doesn't
[37:59] actually, you know, because the thing
[38:00] about Alice is, and you know, Harry, you
[38:02] talked about this in your script last
[38:03] night, she could be really old. She
[38:05] could be like tied to the the children
[38:07] of the forest and old gods or she could
[38:09] not be. Like it it's left ambiguous on
[38:11] purpose and I really hope that she's
[38:13] like super duper old and is tied to the
[38:15] old magic and part of the reason she
[38:16] wants Harrenhal is because you know they
[38:18] cut down weirdwood trees to build it and
[38:20] it's like it would be a completion to
[38:22] all of the injustice done to the green
[38:24] tears of the past. That's what I'm
[38:25] hoping for. I also got some questions I
[38:27] want to ask you guys about Allison and
[38:29] her arc in this. But first, um, let's
[38:32] just really quickly I want to revisit
[38:34] Raina and sheep stealer. Rain is the one
[38:35] who takes her, right? I always get the
[38:36] two twins confused.
[38:37] >> Yes,
[38:38] >> that's an interesting story. So, the
[38:40] lady of the veil basically turned her
[38:42] away. Said, "I don't want you." And in
[38:45] the book, it's not Raina, it's Nettles.
[38:48] And I don't think the book had Nettles
[38:50] being responsible for the death of Jace.
[38:52] So, they're doing something different
[38:54] here. It seems like on paper they're
[38:57] leaving her with no choice and she'll
[38:59] have to go to the Greens. What do you
[39:00] guys think?
[39:03] >> I don't know if I think that she's going
[39:06] to the Greens um because of this. I
[39:08] mean, it seems like based on where we
[39:12] left her in this episode, uh she's just
[39:14] going to hang out in the veil. um which
[39:18] I think you know Nettles spends a lot of
[39:21] time um kind of hanging out in the
[39:24] wilderness and I wouldn't be surprised
[39:26] if they kind of give that arc to Raina.
[39:29] >> Um I I don't think we're going to see
[39:31] her go over to the greens though. I
[39:32] don't think that as a character
[39:36] uh like she would ever turn on her
[39:39] sister. But
[39:41] >> um but who knows? Can I just say that
[39:45] sounds awesome because first of all I
[39:47] barely remember anything about her as a
[39:49] character. I mean they really haven't
[39:50] given her that much to chew on. Like I
[39:53] know that she is the character they're
[39:54] subbing in for Nettles and is of you
[39:58] know uh the descent of old Valyria.
[40:00] That's pretty much all I've got on her.
[40:02] Um in the book there's just all these
[40:04] characters. It's they can only be so
[40:06] fleshed out. Um her going to the greens
[40:08] I'd be like okay I forgive you guys for
[40:10] cutting Nettles. Nettles is the coolest
[40:12] character in the dance of the dragons.
[40:15] She's in my opinion the most important
[40:18] part of the dance because I don't think
[40:20] she has any dragon blood in her. I think
[40:22] she's just a really smart
[40:24] >> I think we talked last week there is a
[40:25] fan theory that she's Damon's uh master
[40:28] daughter
[40:29] >> when she when he lived in the veil. And
[40:32] I hope that's not true because
[40:36] >> I personally like the idea that she
[40:37] tamed the dragon better like that she
[40:39] just brought the dragon.
[40:41] >> Yeah. Earnest. Yeah.
[40:42] >> Again, that makes the Valyrian supremacy
[40:44] thing one of those self-fulfilling
[40:46] prophecies that George loves so much.
[40:48] But I don't think George entirely knows
[40:50] his opinion on Valyrian supremacy
[40:52] because George R. Martin as an
[40:53] individual seems to like loathe the
[40:57] concept of genetic supremacy but also
[41:00] seems to think that Valyrians are a
[41:02] little bit better like
[41:03] >> well it's well it's blood magic I don't
[41:05] think I think what he also shows is the
[41:07] same thing that makes them strong the
[41:09] blood the tie to the dragons is also the
[41:11] same thing that they're undoing because
[41:12] they're so incredibly inbred that they
[41:15] all go insane no matter how sweet they
[41:16] seemed when they were 13 years old.
[41:20] >> Yeah. Um, well, what what I was going to
[41:23] say was like if Sheepsteeler goes to the
[41:26] Greens, that will fix what I consider to
[41:30] be a bunch of logical issues with the
[41:32] story because even with Vagar, even with
[41:37] Vaggar,
[41:39] >> the Black faction has so many dragons at
[41:43] this point that it takes a lot of
[41:46] contrivances in Fire and Blood, by the
[41:49] way, for black faction to just not
[41:52] obliterate the green faction
[41:54] immediately. I mean like yes, Vagar is
[41:56] formidable. I am not downplaying that at
[41:58] all. If you just send Cyrax or in like
[42:02] the Valyrian pronunciation that Reineer
[42:04] uses like Serak uh if you just send
[42:07] Cerak and Maraxis or Caraxis which one
[42:11] is Damon's Damax
[42:13] the blood worm, right? Uh yeah, if you
[42:16] send them to team up against Vaggar,
[42:19] >> send one of them for Vagar's big fat
[42:21] neck, Vaggar's done. Like it it requires
[42:24] a lot of timing and placement for this
[42:27] >> slow too.
[42:28] >> Var slow. And also Vermathur is
[42:30] >> slow.
[42:31] >> Vermathor is a huge
[42:32] >> No, I mean I think that's why the thing
[42:34] with the dragon seeds, they're they're
[42:35] doing work to move them around the board
[42:37] a little bit. Like go wait here. Well,
[42:39] we thought maybe we should move because
[42:40] they're dumb asses. Hugh Hammer. I think
[42:42] I'm waiting for Hugh Hammer to be as
[42:44] cool as he is in the book. But Ol is
[42:47] definitely what I thought he would be
[42:48] like. He's just a huge dumbass. Arman
[42:50] gave us two pounds. Said, "Can't stick
[42:52] around for long. Uh you're sick." And
[42:53] just saying hi. We hope you feel better.
[42:56] >> Arman. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I was just
[42:58] gonna say like would love for another
[43:00] dragon to go team up with the Greens
[43:02] because the Greens have Vaggar and
[43:06] they've got Tacerion,
[43:08] uh, the blue dragon who we're going to
[43:09] meet who I think we saw in a cage.
[43:12] >> Um, and really, I mean, and then you've
[43:16] got
[43:16] >> dragon, right?
[43:18] >> Uh, that's Yeah. And then you got
[43:20] Sunfire who we're not entirely sure what
[43:22] Sunfire's circumstances are right now,
[43:25] but um you know uh things are the the
[43:28] Greens don't have that many dragons and
[43:30] the black faction has so many dragons
[43:33] that putting the putting Sheepsteel on
[43:36] the green side would at least give a
[43:38] little bit more of a dynamic to that. Um
[43:41] >> but I I don't know. I don't think it's
[43:42] going to happen. Just the thing about I
[43:45] I I I totally I I love Nettles going
[43:48] into the mountains and becoming a
[43:49] mountain witch because when you're
[43:51] reading Fire and Blood and you haven't
[43:53] heard from Nettles in a really long time
[43:55] and like 200 pages after the last
[43:58] Nettles mention you hearing word of a
[44:00] witch in the mountains and suddenly
[44:03] everyone says hey guys it's Nettles and
[44:05] she's with Sheep Steeler. That was one
[44:07] of the coolest parts of reading the
[44:08] entire book. I was like this is awesome.
[44:10] But I'm
[44:11] >> it's also another chance to bring a
[44:13] commoner into the story uh into
[44:15] especially into a show that mostly
[44:16] focuses on, you know, wealthy Targaryen
[44:19] uh lords and highborn people.
[44:22] >> Yeah. So, but what I'm saying is I don't
[44:23] completely remember the timeline. Maybe
[44:25] one of you guys will be able to help me
[44:26] with this. I'm pretty sure the Nettles
[44:29] um and I'm pretty sure Nettles appearing
[44:32] in the mountains is something that
[44:34] happens after the dance and I don't
[44:38] >> that's correct. I think it happens
[44:39] during I think it happens during the
[44:41] reign of the king who will be king after
[44:44] this is all over. And I I don't think
[44:47] the show is going to end m I think the
[44:49] show maybe ends with that king's
[44:51] coronation. Other than that a lot of the
[44:54] final maybe 50 to 100 pages of fire and
[44:58] blood I don't think are going to make it
[44:59] into a show into the show. Like I think
[45:01] this show is telling the story of
[45:03] Reineer and Agon II and Fire and Blood
[45:07] goes a little bit further than that. So
[45:08] I don't think the Sheep Steelers in the
[45:10] mountains plot is going to happen and
[45:12] therefore if they send Sheep Steeler to
[45:14] the Greens,
[45:15] >> great.
[45:16] >> I wonder if they're going to adjust the
[45:17] timeline a little bit and end the show
[45:19] with the Last Dragon Dine
[45:21] just for to put a real button on it. I
[45:23] know they last, they persist for a
[45:25] while, but they don't grow any larger.
[45:26] But they they I think need something at
[45:28] the end of the show to tell us, yeah,
[45:30] the age of the dragons is done. So,
[45:32] let's get to Allison real quick. So,
[45:34] Allison spends the episode trying to
[45:36] save her one good kid, mother of the
[45:38] year, uh Helena, and trying to protect
[45:41] her and they're running around. Harriet,
[45:42] in your Easter egg video, you did a
[45:43] great job of mentioning that everybody
[45:45] recognizes them because Otto made them
[45:47] parade the body of her child throughout
[45:49] the streets of King's Landing. So,
[45:50] they're caught immediately. And then
[45:52] Allison goes in that throne room and she
[45:55] sees that her father is dead. She
[45:56] doesn't necessarily know that Reneer did
[45:58] it, but she sees that he is dead. I
[46:01] wonder in that moment how much love she
[46:03] had for her father, how betrayed she
[46:06] felt by Rener, or if she felt betrayed
[46:08] at all. And if she thinks in that
[46:10] moment, oh, I didn't expect this. I've
[46:12] made the wrong decision because she was
[46:13] ready for Reneer to kill her her kid.
[46:16] You think that her [ __ ] dad that set
[46:18] her up to be a sex slave for decades is
[46:21] where she draws the line? Like what's
[46:22] everybody's thoughts on it? Harry, what
[46:24] do you think?
[46:25] >> I mean, I I do think that's kind of a a
[46:28] line for her because that was not the
[46:30] deal that they made. Like Allison has
[46:32] been
[46:33] >> bending over backwards to set everything
[46:35] up. And you could argue that she has
[46:37] also like reneged on her part of the
[46:39] deal because Aegon isn't there. Although
[46:40] that's not her fault, but um
[46:42] >> Sure.
[46:44] But she it was very very difficult for
[46:46] her to make that decision to say yeah
[46:49] you can you can kill Aegon and come and
[46:52] come take over. Like I think Olivia
[46:53] Cook's acting in that scene is
[46:56] phenomenal also. Um but I think uh she
[47:01] does have love for her father. I mean I
[47:04] don't think that Otto was a good dad.
[47:07] Um, but I think the scene like where uh
[47:11] Otto is banished from King's Landing in
[47:14] season 1. Um, and uh Allison is left
[47:18] behind crying uh and he says to her,
[47:20] "You chose Reneer."
[47:22] >> Um, and this is an echo of that exact
[47:25] thing. She chose Rene and ended with her
[47:27] father's death. And I think she is
[47:30] afraid like all the throughout the whole
[47:32] episode she's been saying to everyone
[47:35] um if Rene comes in and becomes queen we
[47:39] can end this war without further
[47:40] bloodshed. It will be peace no more
[47:42] death. Um and I think the death that she
[47:45] was resigned to was Aegon's. I do not
[47:47] think she was resigned to seeing her
[47:50] father beheaded
[47:52] >> um when she didn't even know he was
[47:53] there. So um that's another thing. But I
[47:57] think, you know, we can we can argue all
[47:59] day whether or not she's actually
[48:00] justified to feel betrayed by that. But
[48:03] ultimately, like emotion doesn't follow
[48:06] 100% logical reason. And I think she's
[48:10] pretty upset about this.
[48:12] Uh, I just want to add on to that and I
[48:15] think those are all great points just
[48:16] very briefly, but just in terms of the
[48:18] acting, the pairing of a silent Olivia
[48:22] Cook reaction shot where she goes
[48:24] through maybe five different emotions
[48:26] followed up by Emma Darcy also going
[48:28] through five different emotions I
[48:30] thought was great, not just for
[48:32] showcasing these two incredible actors,
[48:34] but also reentering the show. We have a
[48:37] seismic change at the end here to
[48:40] everything that has gone on in the
[48:41] previous episodes to say, "Nope, this
[48:44] show is still about Radiraa and Allison
[48:46] and their relationship with each other
[48:49] bigger than prophecy, bigger than all
[48:51] these deaths, bigger than anything else.
[48:52] Are they are they ever going to be able
[48:55] to find common ground again?" That's the
[48:57] thing coming out of this episode that I
[48:59] am most excited to see.
[49:01] >> They just they just wanted to to just
[49:04] run around. Anybody's phone ringing on
[49:05] the other end there? They just wanted to
[49:07] fly around. It's okay. They wanted to
[49:08] fly around just being girlfriends and
[49:12] having dragon adventures, man. It just
[49:14] sucks. Like every time I see these two
[49:16] on screen,
[49:17] >> it it reminds me of a really good play I
[49:19] recently saw where I'm just like just as
[49:22] >> for Allison in particular, I think who I
[49:25] think we all agree has never done
[49:26] anything wrong in her entire life. She's
[49:28] a precious.
[49:28] >> She's perfect. She's without spot.
[49:30] >> Exactly. But she works so hard this
[49:33] episode to keep things on track. She
[49:35] puts everything on the line. And like
[49:38] Harriet was saying, to then come in and
[49:39] be like, not only captured when she was
[49:42] trying to get out of town and keep her
[49:43] daughter safe, but also to be like, "Oh,
[49:45] my father is dead and his blood is all
[49:47] over the floor."
[49:49] >> That's such a punch in the gut for
[49:51] Olivia Cook plays it so well.
[49:52] >> Yeah.
[49:53] >> And the plan to leave was so silly, too.
[49:55] I mean,
[49:56] >> yes.
[49:57] >> Why not just if you're going to trust
[49:58] Reneer for everything else? You think
[49:59] she's going to kill you? I I don't know.
[50:01] Sorry, Cam. Go ahead.
[50:02] I'm so I promise you I literally swear
[50:05] on my life I'm not going to bring up A
[50:06] Feast for Crows again. I've brought up A
[50:08] Feast for Crows probably the last four
[50:10] screen crush appearances I made. I'm not
[50:11] going to do it. But Allison go ahead was
[50:14] a really interesting character in season
[50:16] two uh because she had these long boring
[50:19] meandering scenes which I really liked
[50:21] and I thought that they were some of the
[50:22] best scenes in the season where she's
[50:24] sitting around in the consequences of
[50:26] her own actions because you know Allison
[50:28] is one of these characters and and they
[50:30] make a point to show you this in how
[50:32] much symbolism she uses with the
[50:34] seven-pointed star how often she's
[50:36] wearing that necklace that represents
[50:38] the faith. Allison is sort of that
[50:40] character that reminds us that one of
[50:43] the uh most vital partners in
[50:45] perpetuating misogyny is the women who
[50:48] help out to do it. And Allison is that
[50:51] woman. You know, she's the woman who
[50:53] works for the boss at the company where
[50:55] the boss is sexually harassing one of
[50:56] the employees and sends his female
[50:59] assistant to go cover it up, intimidate
[51:02] the victim. Those things like it's
[51:04] something we see in politics all the
[51:05] time. like Allison has been someone
[51:08] knowingly and unknowingly perpetuating
[51:10] all of the things that the show is about
[51:14] and in season two watching just the
[51:16] disaster that came from the coronation
[51:18] of Egon II she got to live in those
[51:22] consequences and something that I'm very
[51:23] afraid of with the show and I say this
[51:25] as an Allison fan is that the writers
[51:28] are just going to get obsessed with
[51:30] humiliating her. I think that the scene
[51:32] where she was attacked by somebody who
[51:35] had the intent of committing sexual
[51:37] violence, it didn't end up going
[51:39] through, but it just made me think that
[51:41] the writers might be entering this
[51:42] pattern of behavior where they're like,
[51:44] "Oh, we're going to use Allison as sort
[51:47] of this um dummy to beat up uh for all
[51:51] of the grievances that people have with
[51:53] the green cause, and we're just going to
[51:55] constantly put Allison through this
[51:57] endless torture, which is just something
[51:59] we've been seeing with her.
[52:02] you know, again, throughout season two
[52:03] as well. So, now she's finally done this
[52:05] thing and made a point to help support
[52:09] the coronation of Reineer, or not the
[52:11] coronation, she the Reineer taking
[52:13] King's Landing. I'm like, are are they
[52:16] going to make us sit here and watch
[52:18] Allison just get humiliated over and
[52:20] over again, or is she going to play some
[52:22] different role? So, I'm hoping we get
[52:23] something.
[52:25] >> Harriet, in your video, you made a good
[52:26] point. Uh, you really spoke to that
[52:28] scene really well. you might got an
[52:29] answer for that?
[52:30] >> Yeah, I I've been thinking a lot about
[52:32] that scene because I've seen a lot of
[52:34] critiques of it um this morning after
[52:36] the
[52:36] >> and in the chat right now, too.
[52:38] >> And in the chat right now. Um which I
[52:40] understand a lot of those criticisms,
[52:43] but at the same time, I actually really
[52:46] like that scene for the plot and for
[52:48] Allison's character. I think um this is
[52:51] the first time that Allison has ever
[52:57] been able to has ever tried to say no to
[53:00] sex. She's been a victim of sexual
[53:02] violence her entire life. Um and I think
[53:05] seeing her viciously fight back in that
[53:07] moment was really cathartic as a
[53:09] character choice. I mean the scene is
[53:10] horrifying obviously. Um, but I think it
[53:13] it does matter that that was her
[53:15] reaction was that finally like the
[53:18] clawing and the attacking with the
[53:20] statueette and everything.
[53:22] >> Um, and also I think um
[53:26] this might be my more hot take about it.
[53:29] I think that Lord Jasper in that scene
[53:31] is meant to be a standin for some of the
[53:35] people who really hate Allison. I think
[53:37] um
[53:38] >> interesting
[53:38] >> the things that he says at the beginning
[53:40] of that scene like
[53:41] >> oh you've been worming your way up in
[53:43] court your whole life like basically
[53:46] accusing her of like seducing Viseris
[53:48] which is a complaint that
[53:51] >> people have about Allison that I could
[53:53] not disagree more with but I won't I
[53:55] won't go on that rant
[53:57] >> at this moment. um and uh basically
[54:01] accusing her of being like a scheming
[54:03] little seductress, which is like a very
[54:05] disingenuous even
[54:08] >> it's not even remotely a part of the
[54:10] show. I mean, the reason she hates
[54:11] Reneer is because Reeneer got to do what
[54:13] she wants and she didn't. I I don't
[54:14] know. I I guess if you're not reading
[54:16] subtext into the show and you only like
[54:18] read recaps after, you could take that.
[54:19] I don't Yeah, I don't get
[54:21] >> it. It may be if you just hate women. Um
[54:24] but uh
[54:26] the but then seeing it kind of
[54:30] >> but seeing like this like basically the
[54:32] show almost I felt like was like this is
[54:34] the character that you are and um you
[54:37] get your head cut off by the end of the
[54:38] episode. So
[54:39] >> I'll also throw out there and just to
[54:42] give like a little bit of a different
[54:44] view on it though I agree with
[54:45] everything that you just said there is
[54:48] without speaking about the explicit
[54:51] content and different ways that they
[54:52] could do it. Uh, I took this as yet
[54:55] another way where, oh, we're watching a
[54:57] franchise where everything goes wrong
[54:59] all the time. And just when the
[55:01] characters are about to have a victory,
[55:04] it's snatched away from him. Throughout
[55:06] this episode, as I mentioned earlier, we
[55:08] have multiple scenes where that happens
[55:09] where instead they kind of win like
[55:11] almost immediately. I mean, down to
[55:14] finding Courtless very quickly on the
[55:16] rocks where you would expect that to
[55:17] stretch out for episodes and episodes.
[55:19] He'd end up in a horrible circumstance.
[55:21] instead they find him and he's like
[55:22] walking around and pretty much find the
[55:24] next scene. Same thing with this Allison
[55:27] scene where you expect her to be
[55:30] assaulted based on everything we've
[55:32] watched for what is it 15 years or so at
[55:34] this point or you would expect Orbal to
[55:37] come in and sign side with Jasper Wild
[55:40] and things get horribly wrong and
[55:41] Allison is thrown in prison or whatever
[55:43] else. Instead,
[55:46] Orwell comes in at the right time, says
[55:47] the truth the way that he sees it, and
[55:50] she's free to go. So, we get this entire
[55:53] episode, same as Rea and Damon, just
[55:56] walking into King's Landing, walking
[55:58] into the Red Keep with barely anybody
[56:00] standing against them most of the time.
[56:02] That's something that never happens. So
[56:05] that to me, while I might not, you know,
[56:09] I'm not like we this is a fun scene to
[56:11] watch or anything, but it's thrilling to
[56:13] watch like, oh, things are turning out
[56:15] right for our folks right up until
[56:17] >> they don't at the end and it twists and
[56:19] obviously things are going to go
[56:20] horribly wrong for the next eight uh not
[56:23] six episodes or so. But that to me felt
[56:26] like that was the place there to show us
[56:28] Allison in the situation where we've
[56:30] seen her in so many times before and
[56:34] this time it kind of goes right and
[56:37] she's the main man as that shirt says.
[56:39] Is that what it was?
[56:40] >> Yeah, that was an accident. I'm sorry
[56:41] about that. I was hoping it was
[56:42] accidentally a Game of Thrones shirt but
[56:44] I I literally minimized the screen and
[56:45] hit the thumb.
[56:46] >> They're all passages. That's what I
[56:47] would say. But yeah, but they did a
[56:50] great job there of like ropeadoping you
[56:52] of you thinking assuming it's it's so
[56:54] much fun because I you haven't read the
[56:55] book to hear your reaction when they
[56:56] stormed the Red Keep because I I you
[56:58] know we all knew the three of us knew
[57:00] what was going to happen. So
[57:02] >> getting to hear that it was even
[57:03] suspenseful wasn't something that would
[57:04] really cross my mind because when you
[57:06] read the book it's like and then they
[57:08] went into you like it just tells you it
[57:10] happened. that doesn't say like they
[57:11] went down a hallway. This it's like it's
[57:13] a maester recounting stuff that a priest
[57:15] and a dwarf said, you know, like it's
[57:17] it's not presented in a dramatic way.
[57:19] You have to like read the drama from the
[57:20] situation. Uh guys, we got to wrap it up
[57:22] there. Go ahead. Oh, no, we got a super
[57:24] chat, too. Go ahead, Harry.
[57:25] >> I was just saying I I always watch it
[57:27] with two friends who have not seen the
[57:30] book and they were both like, I'm so
[57:31] scared. I'm so scared during that whole
[57:33] season.
[57:33] >> Oh, that's awesome.
[57:35] >> Yeah, I guess I I do too. I just don't,
[57:37] you know, I don't measure the reactions
[57:39] that much. Okay, so the one knock the
[57:42] one who knocks very cute is five B gave
[57:45] us five bucks and I like this a lot said
[57:47] are Laris and Aean the new Rosen CR and
[57:50] Gilden Sterner what seriously what's
[57:52] going on with them look in the book all
[57:54] I'll say is Aean just or Aegon just
[57:57] disappears he just goes away for a while
[57:59] right uh because nobody knew where he
[58:01] was and one thing I love about this
[58:03] series is finding out that Rene and
[58:05] Allison had a deep friendship from
[58:07] childhood from girlhood and finding out
[58:11] where the hell he went when he
[58:13] disappeared and just the fact that like,
[58:16] you know, they're sniping at each other
[58:17] and he's mad at him and he doesn't see
[58:20] he's a dumbass so he doesn't see the
[58:21] bigger picture and the way that you
[58:22] pointed out in the breakdown Harriet he
[58:24] snaps off the air just jabs the guy from
[58:26] the triarchy because he's so frustrated
[58:28] and he's trying own some control of the
[58:30] situation.
[58:31] >> Thanks so much.
[58:32] >> You got all my love.
[58:33] >> All right, Cam, you're fired. I'll talk
[58:34] to you later.
[58:35] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[58:38] >> Oops. Wait. Oh,
[58:39] >> I missed. He took himself off. I fired
[58:41] Harry at the same time. Sorry about
[58:42] that. Yeah, but no, he is they've been
[58:44] absolutely so much fun to pair together.
[58:46] Uh, really good.
[58:47] >> Yeah, they're doing their like little
[58:48] like Three Stooges routine and I'm
[58:50] obsessed with it.
[58:51] >> Yeah, it's like it's like the the road
[58:53] the road to King's Landing.
[58:55] >> Exactly. They're the new Bing Crosby and
[58:57] Bob Hope is what's going on here.
[58:59] >> I'm lo I'm loving every second of it.
[59:01] All right, we got to get Oh, Alex, does
[59:03] the people on the phone ever get back to
[59:04] you? What's going
[59:05] >> Oh, yeah. They actually said I got to
[59:06] get on Chop Chop. Um, again, not sure
[59:08] what that means, but I'll
[59:10] >> got it.
[59:11] >> Excellent.
[59:12] >> Thank you so much. You can find Alex on
[59:13] the Comic Book Club podcast. That is
[59:15] linked below. And of course, Harriet,
[59:16] her own channel is linked below, and you
[59:18] can find her stuff here on Screen Crush
[59:19] all the time. Harriet, love your videos.
[59:22] Uh, love working with you and thanks for
[59:24] coming on.
[59:25] >> Thank you.
[59:26] >> Bye. And we want to hear from you guys.
[59:29] What did you think about the episode?
[59:30] Let us know your thoughts down in the
[59:31] comments below. And remember, Screen
[59:33] Crush members at our $5 tier, get 15%
[59:36] off our merch store and all the really
[59:37] cool Game of Thrones merch we showed
[59:39] before. You can let us know what you
[59:40] think down in the comments or on our
[59:41] free to join Discord server or follow me
[59:43] on Substack. That's always a big help.
[59:44] And if it's your first time here, make
[59:46] sure you subscribe and smash that bell
[59:47] for alerts for Screen Crush. I'm Ryan.