[0:00] Now, I encountered this video out there
[0:02] in the wild, why World of Warcraft
[0:04] doesn't feel as immersive anymore. I
[0:06] don't know how this dude made a
[0:07] 17-minute video, but there's only one
[0:11] answer. The game is too damn fast.
[0:13] >> Today I want to talk about why World of
[0:15] Warcraft doesn't feel as immersive as it
[0:17] used to. And that's not to say that
[0:19] retail WoW isn't immersive. There's
[0:20] plenty of times I feel immersed in
[0:22] retail WoW.
[0:23] >> The only time you feel immersed in
[0:25] retail WoW is when you rage quit and go
[0:27] outside to touch grass. That is the only
[0:30] way to feel immersed, because you're
[0:31] immersing yourself in the real world
[0:32] rather than the garbage that is called
[0:34] retail.
[0:35] >> But there was something about classic
[0:36] WoW that really just
[0:38] >> That's what he meant, I think.
[0:39] >> pinnacle of immersion. Like when you
[0:41] played the game, you felt like you were
[0:42] in the Barrens. You felt like you were
[0:44] in Feralas. You felt like you were in
[0:45] Tanaris, right? All these different
[0:47] zones. And I think there's a few things
[0:49] that kind of play into that that classic
[0:51] WoW did that retail WoW doesn't do. Um
[0:55] and so I kind of want to just go over
[0:56] some of those things today cuz uh I
[0:58] wrote down a few bullet points of why I
[1:01] think all of this is. And so, let's just
[1:03] jump right into it with uh classic WoW
[1:06] is that slower RPG type of game. And you
[1:09] hear this all the time, right? People
[1:11] >> There you go.
[1:12] There you can end the video right here.
[1:14] You called it. Man, he's right. True and
[1:17] real. Very, very based. Now, I don't
[1:20] know how he's going to elaborate on
[1:22] that, but I think he's going to go into
[1:24] more fine details because
[1:26] the game the game needs to slow down is
[1:29] like it's the root of all things. So, I
[1:31] guess he's just going to see how it
[1:34] went, right? Just you talk about all the
[1:36] little stuff. I appreciate that.
[1:38] >> WoW is like it's a slower RPG game. Some
[1:40] people don't like that. Some people like
[1:42] this is boring. And then the modern game
[1:44] is much more like action RPG. And
[1:48] while I think those are kind of great to
[1:49] compare and contrast, I think one big
[1:52] factor stands with these two, and that's
[1:54] friction.
[1:55] Right? And so,
[1:57] classic WoW is all about friction and
[2:00] slowly either removing that friction or
[2:04] kind of like learning to appreciate that
[2:06] friction in a way. While retail WoW is
[2:09] much more about reducing
[2:12] all of the friction like
[2:14] >> [laughter]
[2:15] >> just reducing as much friction as
[2:17] possible in various ways. So, let me
[2:19] give you some ex-
[2:20] >> It's teleporting you to the mountain top
[2:22] without needing to climb. That's what
[2:24] he's trying to say. Absolutely, he's
[2:26] 100% right. And that's exactly why
[2:29] people don't like retail. I mean, I
[2:32] listen, if someone is going to pull the
[2:33] 9 million players argument like don't,
[2:37] okay? We've been over this too many
[2:38] times. It's 9 million bots. Enough,
[2:41] okay? You can't be that stupid. You
[2:44] can't believe it. Please, just oh my
[2:46] god, like these type of people. I
[2:48] already know I'm going to get that
[2:49] comment.
[2:49] >> examples, right? Um, it's like when
[2:51] people bring up walking versus flying.
[2:54] In Classic WoW, you had to walk
[2:55] everywhere. You know, you start out the
[2:57] game, you have to walk through Durotar,
[2:58] you have to walk through the Barrens,
[3:00] you have to walk through all these
[3:01] places, right? That's that's friction.
[3:03] It's I want to be able to fly. I want to
[3:05] be able to get my mount and just, you
[3:07] know, move faster and not have to do
[3:08] this.
[3:09] >> And stuff happens while you're walking,
[3:11] by the way. That's why flying is so
[3:13] frowned upon these days because people
[3:15] know like flying completely deteriorated
[3:18] the friction of the game. It didn't even
[3:19] deteriorate it, it just deleted it. So,
[3:22] yeah, there was ba- barely any friction.
[3:24] If you played retail, I played it
[3:26] unfortunately, my condolences, right?
[3:28] Um,
[3:29] it's so bad. You have dragon flying,
[3:32] it's cool, it's fast, you go from A to B
[3:35] in a matter of seconds, but you don't
[3:37] really play the game. You're playing a
[3:39] solo game. It's definitely not an MMO or
[3:41] at least it doesn't feel like it.
[3:43] >> But by being forced to do that, it
[3:45] actually makes you
[3:48] stop and kind of be aware of your
[3:50] surroundings, right? Like when you're
[3:51] walking through a zone, you go, "Oh,
[3:53] there's these mobs over there. I need to
[3:55] be careful of those mobs. There's
[3:57] There's a city over there that I need to
[3:59] actually go look at." And
[4:01] you're you're always looking around and
[4:03] being aware cuz you're just moving
[4:04] through the zone. Now, you could just go
[4:05] on auto run and be like, "Whatever."
[4:07] But,
[4:08] that's more of like once you kind of
[4:10] know the zone, right? But, now in the
[4:12] game, you just get flying and you fly
[4:14] around and that's it, right? You just
[4:16] fly over stuff and you're like, "Oh, is
[4:17] that something I need to look at?" I
[4:19] don't even know, right?
[4:20] >> [laughter]
[4:20] >> And so, sure, there are you could fly
[4:23] around and stop and look at something
[4:25] and fly somewhere else and look at some
[4:27] That's what I do for Poile's top 10,
[4:28] honestly.
[4:29] But, it does remove something, right?
[4:31] Like that that friction has been removed
[4:33] and you can kind of say the same thing
[4:35] for
[4:36] instances, right? It's why people go,
[4:38] "Oh, remember when you had to run to the
[4:39] instance and summon people and then go
[4:41] in, right?" Versus just open your menu
[4:44] and click do dungeon, get into a queue,
[4:46] and it pops and you're in the dungeon,
[4:47] right? That's That's friction. You're
[4:49] removing that element of friction, which
[4:51] I think in return is a form of
[4:53] immersion.
[4:55] And so, that slow RPG feel, I think
[4:58] plays into that because sure, you have
[5:00] that source of friction of, "Oh, man, I
[5:02] have to walk everywhere. It's slow."
[5:04] But, then you get your movement
[5:05] abilities and you're like, "Hey, this is
[5:07] actually pretty nice. I can move a
[5:08] little faster, right? I can, you know,
[5:11] get
[5:11] >> Such a great point. He made such a
[5:13] fantastic point there because you used
[5:15] to have solution for such problem and it
[5:18] always felt good whenever you achieve
[5:21] that. Same thing goes for the mount
[5:23] itself, by the way. Like the normal
[5:24] mount, not TBC flying mounts. If we're
[5:26] talking strictly vanilla, the moment you
[5:28] hit 40 and you manage to save up the
[5:30] gold for that first mount, boy, you feel
[5:34] that change immediately.
[5:36] It's crazy and I'm not even going to
[5:38] bother mentioning the epic mount, which
[5:40] is 10 times faster, right? It's so crazy
[5:42] good. And the only reason that you
[5:44] appreciate it is because you get it at
[5:46] level 40. In Ascension World of
[5:48] Warcraft, which is a private server, you
[5:50] get you get your first mount for, you
[5:53] know, classic plus, right? You you get
[5:55] it I think level four or something like
[5:58] that. And it's horrible. It's one of the
[6:00] things that I hated about the server.
[6:02] They've completely made me just
[6:04] not tolerate it, to say the least,
[6:06] because it completely skipped the entire
[6:08] premise of classic. Classic needs to be
[6:11] slow. That's the definition for classic
[6:14] that I think most people hold.
[6:16] >> around and explore a little bit better,
[6:17] then you get your ground mount.
[6:19] >> Yeah. As a Guild Wars 2 player, I tried
[6:21] to play WoW and I didn't even leave the
[6:22] tutorial. Man, do you have any idea how
[6:25] many WoW players are saying the same
[6:26] about Guild Wars 2?
[6:28] >> You're like, "Okay, that was pretty
[6:29] cool." And I saved up enough money and
[6:30] it gives you this sense of progression.
[6:32] >> And I think that's one of the biggest
[6:34] factors. It It gives you the RPG
[6:37] progression system of like, "I was slow.
[6:40] Now I'm less slow.
[6:42] Now I'm getting a lot faster and now I'm
[6:43] going fast cuz I got my epic mount,
[6:45] right?" Or I mean, you could even play
[6:47] into like Burning Crusade. Like you
[6:48] started with ground mounts and then you
[6:50] eventually got flying, even though it
[6:52] was very slow flying, right? It was all
[6:54] sources of friction that you remove by
[6:57] playing the game and just earning stuff.
[7:00] Now, another form of that, I would say,
[7:02] is the the old like arrows, right? Like
[7:05] you had to buy your arrows. You had to
[7:08] um you had to buy reagents to to do
[7:12] stuff. And while that is annoying,
[7:13] right? You're like, "Oh, I ran out of
[7:14] arrows. I got to go buy them." There is
[7:16] an element of immersion to that. Like,
[7:18] "Hey, I'm a hunter. I'm buying my
[7:20] arrows. I'm buying food. I'm feeding my
[7:22] pet." Right? All these different things.
[7:24] And I don't think your pet
[7:25] >> And also, it made one legendary bow
[7:29] extremely
[7:31] cool. I Oh, man, I forgot the name. Was
[7:34] it Quel' No, wait. What
[7:36] Oh my god. The bow name just slipped my
[7:39] mind. It was the cool hunter bow from
[7:40] the raid. Ah, damn it. Any anyone
[7:43] members? I literally forgot the name.
[7:45] I'll check it out. I'll check it out
[7:46] after. My bad. I It completely slipped
[7:48] my mind. I even remember some of the
[7:50] flavor text. You're like, pull this ring
[7:52] back and like an arrow conjure something
[7:55] like Rock Delar. Thank you. Thank you,
[7:57] my brother. Yeah, exactly. For some
[7:59] reason I remembered it from Hearthstone.
[8:01] I don't know why. The image just popped
[8:03] to my mind. Never mind that. But yeah,
[8:05] exactly. It was so cool, right? It was
[8:09] amazing and you can only have this type
[8:12] of weapon if you have arrows. So, I
[8:14] really wish they bring arrows back.
[8:16] Maybe not the same way where you have
[8:17] like, you know, infinite stacks clogging
[8:19] up your bag, but in some sort of a
[8:22] different way. I really wish arrows
[8:24] would make a comeback.
[8:25] >> I should run away from that feeling.
[8:26] >> And also, I really wish it would come
[8:27] back in a form of you can upgrade arrows
[8:30] and you can equip different arrows. I
[8:32] think that would be cool like equipping
[8:33] poison arrows, equipping uh enchanted
[8:36] arrows, something like that that is
[8:38] unique to hunter.
[8:39] >> I think it will. Although, I get why
[8:40] they did it, I guess. Um
[8:42] >> Surely Blizzard will take the mental and
[8:43] do that.
[8:44] >> kind of bring you into the world. It
[8:46] makes you feel like again, you're
[8:48] role-play. You're like, I am a hunter. I
[8:49] have bought my ammo and I have my ammo,
[8:52] right? And now it's just kind of like,
[8:53] I'm a hunter. It's just I'm shooting my
[8:55] gun. I don't have to buy arrows or
[8:57] bullets or whatever. And so,
[8:59] again, that's a form of friction. It's a
[9:01] a little thing you have to do, but that
[9:04] little thing can add an element of
[9:06] immersion. Now, adding on to that, I
[9:08] would say that hardcore classic wow
[9:10] actually adds to that friction and
[9:12] immersion, right? Because now, if you
[9:14] mess up
[9:14] >> Yeah, I was about to say Quel'Delar.
[9:16] >> So, you're you're trying to make these
[9:18] potions. Like, you're getting potions to
[9:20] buff your stuff up. You're trying to
[9:21] increase your stats. You're making sure
[9:23] that everything is correct and you're
[9:24] going to be as strong as possible when
[9:26] you go out into the world so that you
[9:27] don't die because
[9:29] the the ultimate level of friction is
[9:31] you die and you start over and you're
[9:32] like, oh my god, this is terrible,
[9:34] right? And so, that becomes very
[9:36] immersive because now you're just like
[9:39] it's essentially real life in the game.
[9:41] Um
[9:43] and I think that's one of the reasons
[9:44] that classic WoW is also so much fun is
[9:47] you're you're hitting like max levels of
[9:49] friction at that point cuz you know if
[9:51] you die you start over. And then in
[9:53] retail WoW or even just normal classic
[9:55] WoW or whatever, if you die you just
[9:57] respond and there's no friction there.
[9:59] You're like, "Whatever, I just keep
[10:00] going." Now, that brings me to my next
[10:01] point which is the musical immersion and
[10:04] the musical immersion is one of my
[10:06] favorite parts of playing WoW. Like when
[10:08] you play classic WoW and you hear that
[10:10] ambient music wherever you are like in
[10:12] the barrens or in a forest or wherever
[10:14] it might be, it really hits. Like it
[10:16] makes you feel like you're in that zone,
[10:18] you're a part of the game and sometimes
[10:20] it it gives you that feeling of you're
[10:22] not even listening to music. It's almost
[10:24] like you're just there and then
[10:26] >> I love this guy. Nah, this guy this guy
[10:29] is a G. He knows what's up. He knows
[10:31] what's up. No, that's absolutely true. I
[10:35] played, unfortunately, Season of
[10:36] Discovery just a couple of days ago.
[10:39] Even though I quit because it's just
[10:41] same lame rehashed garbage.
[10:43] I I loved leveling in the barrens so
[10:46] much, dude. It's just the music. It
[10:48] truly feels like you're there. Even on
[10:51] stream, which is very difficult to
[10:53] disconnect yourself from like, you know,
[10:55] try to imagine you're from a streamer
[10:57] perspective. I mean, you know, minus the
[10:59] doing crimes on Twitch and all that
[11:01] stuff. Just imagine you're a streamer.
[11:02] You need to be on chat and in the game.
[11:06] You need to kind of split your
[11:07] attention. Bro, I completely lost myself
[11:10] in the game and I went silent for like
[11:13] minutes on end, right? Sometimes even an
[11:15] hour I barely speak because I just I get
[11:18] immersed killing quillboars. That's
[11:21] insane. And only World of Warcraft can
[11:23] pull me this this way. No other game has
[11:27] managed to do that. Literally no other
[11:30] game. And it's all due to the music.
[11:32] It's so good. And I will say
[11:35] you know, to retail credit, I don't
[11:37] think the music has dropped off
[11:39] significantly. I still think that retail
[11:41] World of Warcraft music is still kind of
[11:43] good. I did enjoy midnight music. It
[11:45] wasn't as good as let's say Warlords of
[11:47] Draenor. Warlords of Draenor music was
[11:49] top tier in my opinion. I still listen
[11:50] to the soundtrack. Or Pandaria. Pandaria
[11:52] was goated. Even BFA had some really
[11:55] good tunes. But it was good. It was
[11:58] still good.
[11:58] >> The music belongs there. And I think
[12:00] that's
[12:01] something that's like really powerful.
[12:02] Cuz I always have the music on when I'm
[12:04] playing
[12:05] just really any video game, but
[12:07] especially WoW. And that's not to say
[12:09] retail doesn't have that because there's
[12:10] actually a lot of times in retail WoW
[12:12] I've felt very immersed from the music.
[12:14] Like the the Undermine, honestly.
[12:17] Places like Zuldazar.
[12:19] >> Yeah, but the problem is you have seven
[12:21] different NPCs yapping in your ear about
[12:24] irrelevant garbage. Like that is the
[12:26] problem. It's like, oh, okay, I'm about
[12:28] to be immersed and then it's like eight
[12:30] different RP sessions that you didn't
[12:33] ask for. Just the unsolicited advice of
[12:36] Jaina and Thrall yapping in your ear.
[12:39] Nobody wants that. It completely screws
[12:41] up the immersion and that's why I'm
[12:43] always advocating for less RP in retail
[12:46] World of Warcraft.
[12:47] >> Drustvar.
[12:49] Even like the the Isle of Dorn had some
[12:51] really good music at times. Like there's
[12:53] a lot of good music in retail WoW that
[12:55] is immersive, but I think classic World
[12:57] of Warcraft just had
[12:59] it was like the perfect
[13:01] >> Classic had less noise.
[13:03] >> perfect. Like I think that's like to me
[13:05] classic World of Warcraft music is
[13:07] almost like the pinnacle of video game
[13:08] music. Like it's just phenomenal. And so
[13:11] I think that is also another element of
[13:13] why it felt so immersive. And speaking
[13:15] of zones, that actually brings me to my
[13:16] next point, which is sometimes in retail
[13:19] WoW going to zones can pull you out of
[13:21] that immersion because you get kind of
[13:23] warped back to periods that have already
[13:25] happened. And so let's say I'm going to
[13:29] Booty Bay as a great example, right? And
[13:31] I see the goblins just repairing Booty
[13:33] Bay and I'm like, man, it's been
[13:36] like what, 16, [laughter] 17 years of
[13:39] the goblins repairing Booty Bay?
[13:41] >> Yeah.
[13:41] >> And sure, you could make the argument
[13:43] like they're they're
[13:44] >> Don't worry, next expansion surely
[13:47] Gazlowe would come in and fix
[13:48] everything. That's okay. He's just uh
[13:50] too busy on drinking some elixirs.
[13:53] >> Like actual construction, they're taking
[13:54] forever to get to
[13:55] >> He's He's chugging noggenfogger elixir.
[13:57] >> that to where you see a lot of these old
[13:59] thing. For example, like Stonetalon
[14:01] Mountains. When you go there, there's
[14:02] like the big war going on with Garrosh
[14:05] and the Alliance and stuff and you're
[14:06] like, this already happened. And so,
[14:08] obviously, the the logistical real life
[14:12] part of you kicks in is like, yeah, you
[14:13] know, this is an older expansion, right?
[14:15] Like they're going to update it
[14:16] eventually hopefully.
[14:18] Uh and it's in No, it's just part of it.
[14:19] But, there's that's still something that
[14:22] takes you out of the game, right? Like
[14:24] you have to go You have to get out of
[14:26] the game mindset to realize that and be
[14:28] like, you know, this is just an old
[14:30] expansion cuz you're
[14:31] >> Exactly. Exactly. And let me add
[14:35] something on top of it. It's so weird
[14:37] that you go to
[14:40] Let me Let me think of a zone. Man, why
[14:43] why did Why was zone's name just escape
[14:45] my mind? Like if I I want to say
[14:48] Winterspring, but that's not when the
[14:49] one I I mean. Like the woods one, the
[14:51] one with the woods where the Alliance
[14:53] and the Horde fight. Like completely
[14:55] like Ashenvale. Oh, dude, what the hell
[14:57] is wrong with me today? Okay, so you go
[14:59] to Ashenvale and you see the Horde and
[15:02] the Alliance kind of fighting each other
[15:03] for resources. And then you go up and
[15:06] the story tells you that they're cool
[15:07] now, but they really aren't. And that's
[15:10] just confusing the hell out of you. It's
[15:13] so weird, it's inconsistent, and it's
[15:15] all due to Blizzard keeping piling on
[15:18] expansions on top of each other. Nothing
[15:20] in the old world makes sense anymore.
[15:22] And that's a huge problem that actually
[15:25] really really hurts the game long-term
[15:27] because you're getting no new players.
[15:28] New players can't immerse themselves
[15:30] inside of the world. They're losing
[15:32] their interest. They're dropping out
[15:34] quickly. And you're basically staying
[15:35] with the same old veterans over and over
[15:37] again. Eventually, you're going to run
[15:39] out of whales, right? I know right now
[15:41] it seems like an impossibility, but it
[15:44] will happen in a couple of years,
[15:46] surely.
[15:47] >> If you're playing in the game, you're
[15:48] just like, this is weird. Like, what's
[15:50] going on? This happened 15 years ago.
[15:52] Why is this still occurring in the zone,
[15:54] right? And classic wild doesn't have
[15:56] that because it's just all static. Like,
[15:59] it's it's classic wild. The zones are
[16:01] the way they are. It like it really does
[16:05] pull you out of a zone when you go there
[16:07] and everything's just kind of outdated
[16:08] and things have already been completed
[16:10] and you're just like, yeah, I don't
[16:11] know. It's
[16:13] that's the way it is, right? And now
[16:14] having said that, retail does do a lot
[16:17] of stuff well, right? Like rating and
[16:18] mythic plus and collect
[16:20] >> That's the only thing they're doing
[16:21] well. Everything else is trash. Okay, I
[16:25] I want to see I want to hear what he has
[16:27] to say here.
[16:27] >> thing pets and mounts and transmogs and
[16:29] all that stuff,
[16:30] >> That's the only stuff.
[16:32] >> Um well, actually, I don't really like
[16:34] mythic plus. It's not my thing. I'm bad
[16:35] at the game.
[16:36] Uh but sometimes it almost
[16:39] >> Okay, he literally said retail has a lot
[16:41] of things.
[16:42] And then he gave the three things that's
[16:45] going on for retail. Literally, there's
[16:48] nothing else good about retail save for
[16:51] mythic plus, rating, and collectibles.
[16:53] These are the only things that makes
[16:56] retail survive. Without them, retail's
[16:59] cooked. If you make classic plus with
[17:02] today current rating,
[17:04] people will never play retail again.
[17:06] >> feels like
[17:08] there's too much to do and that can kind
[17:10] of take you out of it. Um for example,
[17:13] when I logged in for this past patch,
[17:17] uh I got to the new zone with all the
[17:19] mushrooms all over and stuff and I was
[17:20] like, this is pretty cool, right? And I
[17:21] was going through and I got it all done
[17:24] and I was like, well, that's that. And
[17:27] it didn't really feel like I immersed
[17:29] myself in this new patch zone. It didn't
[17:31] really feel like I was like, whoa, I'm
[17:33] like I'm in the game right now and I'm
[17:35] loving the aesthetic. Like I I thought
[17:37] >> Why, you got a command prompt bug? Like
[17:39] why why weren't you immersed? Wait, your
[17:41] NPCs glitch through the mountains? I
[17:43] mean, hey, that's a Okay, wait, did you
[17:45] get the same dialogue three times in a
[17:47] row again? Oh, okay, maybe those things
[17:51] actually hurt immersion a little bit. I
[17:52] don't know. But hey, at least we have a
[17:55] pretty solid PTR, no? What do you say,
[17:57] guys? Blizzard would never finish a
[18:00] buggy PTR into live service game. No,
[18:03] they would never do that.
[18:05] >> The zone was cool.
[18:06] >> Never.
[18:06] >> I thought it looked great, but I didn't
[18:07] feel immersed in the zone. And I
[18:09] realized that part of that is due to the
[18:13] way the game is currently structured.
[18:15] So, we have things like weeklys, we have
[18:17] dailies,
[18:18] >> Yes.
[18:18] >> we have all these different currencies.
[18:20] >> Yes.
[18:21] >> When I wanted to go do the new zone, I
[18:23] was like, all right, where do I go? And
[18:25] there was like a million quests all over
[18:27] cuz I don't I didn't do much of the last
[18:29] patch and I was like, okay, here's a
[18:30] quest, but is this quest for the new
[18:32] patch or is this for the old patch? Then
[18:34] people in chat were like, Kraridor, what
[18:35] are you talking about? It's from the the
[18:37] previous patch and like this one I'm
[18:39] like I play this game and I'm confused.
[18:42] >> [laughter]
[18:43] >> That's so true. Oh my god, I'm pausing
[18:46] constantly in this video about this guy.
[18:48] He's just spitting fire and brimstone.
[18:50] That's crazy. Exactly. Dailies should be
[18:54] abolished, weeklys should be abolished,
[18:56] monthlys should be abolished. Everything
[19:00] in World of Warcraft that forces you to
[19:02] log in to the game on a weekly or daily
[19:05] basis should be gone. There is no such
[19:09] room for this in an MMORPG. I know that
[19:11] nowadays it's the meta and everyone's
[19:13] doing it. I don't want to see it in
[19:15] World of Warcraft, okay?
[19:17] >> Imagine a new player
[19:18] here trying to be like, "Hey, a new
[19:20] patch." And there's like stuff all over
[19:22] the place. Like it it pulls you out.
[19:24] Again, like I'm talking about immersion
[19:25] here. And from a immersive standpoint,
[19:28] being in the game trying to like figure
[19:29] out which quest is which and like
[19:31] dailies and weeklies and stuff. And I'm
[19:33] >> It's all technical.
[19:34] >> Like what am I even doing here? Like why
[19:36] why is this happening? And it's just
[19:37] it's it's almost overwhelming. And it
[19:40] >> It's not almost, it is.
[19:41] >> When I do that type of stuff, I'm doing
[19:43] chores rather than immersing myself in
[19:47] the game and just like experiencing the
[19:49] game. And I think that's my biggest
[19:50] issue with modern WoW is when I log in,
[19:53] it's like I have to pull up my my
[19:56] chore list and like check stuff off.
[19:58] Like did I do my weekly? Did I do my
[20:00] daily? Did I do my dungeon? Did I do it,
[20:03] right? And you're going down the list
[20:04] and you're just checking. And sure, you
[20:06] can kind of do that in classic WoW. Like
[20:08] you can make a checklist for yourself of
[20:09] like
[20:10] >> Here's the things I have to do.
[20:11] >> Of kill 10 quillboars? What what
[20:14] checklist you need in classic? Listen,
[20:16] even badges for dungeons weren't that
[20:18] big of a deal. Like yes, there were
[20:20] dailies, true. But I mean, once you got
[20:23] enough badges, you were kind of done
[20:25] with it. So, it's not that big of a deal
[20:27] in my opinion and you can afford to miss
[20:29] a day or two. It honestly wasn't that
[20:31] bad. So, this form of dailies was
[20:33] acceptable. I would still be happy if it
[20:35] was abolished, but
[20:38] this was okay. I guess it was fine. But
[20:42] no, these [ __ ] are right. These are
[20:44] chores. These are dark patterns. You
[20:47] don't want this in your games. This is
[20:49] something you do to grab the attention
[20:51] of whales and addicts. Basically, it
[20:54] completely turns away people such as
[20:56] myself because I'm not into that FOMO
[20:59] garbage, okay? I'm just too old for that
[21:01] [ __ ] I'm 28, dude. Like I literally had
[21:04] my birthday uh like what, three days
[21:06] ago? I'm old. I'm about to be bald, I
[21:09] had enough. Okay? I don't want any of
[21:11] this. I don't want to waste my time
[21:12] doing a checklist. I just want to have
[21:14] fun anymore as myself in a game that I
[21:15] love with a community that I appreciate.
[21:17] >> But it's not the game kind of telling
[21:19] you what to do. And I saw and so when
[21:21] you do that, I think
[21:23] the immersive part of just going into
[21:26] the world and being like, "What am I
[21:27] going to do in this world?" right? Like
[21:29] you're just a part of it. One of the
[21:30] things I love about Classic WoW is
[21:32] you're just another adventurer out in
[21:34] the world and you're going on the hero's
[21:35] journey. And you're just trying to make
[21:38] it in the world, right? Like you're you
[21:39] start out, you're just some person. And
[21:42] then you play through the world, you go
[21:43] through the world, and you kind of earn
[21:45] your stripes, and you earn your title,
[21:47] and it's like,
[21:48] >> I'm 28.
[21:49] >> And now you are like a a pretty
[21:51] important part of this world. Now you
[21:53] are becoming a hero. And I think I think
[21:57] the weird part about retail WoW that
[21:58] kind of pulls me out of that immersion
[22:00] aspect is
[22:02] they're like, "It's you, champion, the
[22:04] chosen one." And it's like, "Yeah, I
[22:06] mean, I guess. I've been playing for
[22:08] like 20 years, right?" It's like, "All
[22:10] right, yeah." But then somebody's been
[22:12] playing for like five years
[22:14] also gets the same treatment. Somebody
[22:15] who's been playing for like three months
[22:17] can also be at the same tier of you.
[22:20] >> No, that's not a real problem. The real
[22:21] problem is them calling you a champion
[22:23] and then you need to give them 10 bear
[22:25] asses. That's the problem. It's
[22:27] completely immersion breaking. And in
[22:29] the old World of Warcraft war world,
[22:31] sorry, you were a nobody. You just bunch
[22:35] yourself with another hoodlum, and you
[22:37] made progress together. Eventually, you
[22:40] teamed up with 39 more hoodlums, and you
[22:43] went to a raid. That's how it worked. It
[22:45] made sense, and it was beautiful. There
[22:48] was no reason whatsoever to change it
[22:50] into a single player where you are the
[22:52] sole hero of Azeroth. You're the one
[22:55] saving it. It's cringe. It's cringe
[22:58] self-insert millennial writing. Nobody
[23:01] likes that [ __ ] save for a few Blizzard
[23:03] employees. And you need to make sure
[23:06] that this is gone. Along with the
[23:08] employees, by the way. Just completely
[23:09] give the boot to Holly Longdale and the
[23:12] entire HR department.
[23:14] >> And they're just like, you're the chosen
[23:15] one, man. Like, you you're going to save
[23:18] Azeroth and all this stuff. And then
[23:19] you're like, okay, and then you talk to
[23:20] your friend and your friend's like, no,
[23:21] wait, I'm the chosen one. I'm going to
[23:23] save Azeroth.
[23:24] And some other guy is like, I'm going to
[23:26] save Azeroth.
[23:26] >> [laughter]
[23:27] >> We're all the chosen ones.
[23:29] >> I'm the hero. I'm going to save Azeroth.
[23:31] And so
[23:32] it just becomes like that.
[23:33] >> Yeah, for that reason I hated Legion
[23:35] artifacts. For For the sake of soul
[23:37] immersion, I think artifacts themselves
[23:39] as an idea were great. But like in terms
[23:42] of immersion, like, oh, you get an
[23:43] Ashbringer, you get an Ashbringer, it
[23:45] was not. Like it was way immersion
[23:47] breaking.
[23:48] It It was way too much.
[23:50] >> argument, where if everybody's a hero,
[23:52] then like nobody's a hero. Or
[23:56] if everybody's like a chosen champion
[23:58] hero, I guess I guess I should say.
[23:59] Because like everybody's a hero
[24:01] technically. Um it it's kind of like the
[24:03] epics, right? If If everybody has epic
[24:06] gear, it's not epic anymore. It's just
[24:07] common.
[24:09] Like if everybody has the same gear,
[24:10] it's just common gear. It's just they
[24:12] painted it purple and go like, yeah,
[24:13] that's epic. And I think a lot of the
[24:14] lore that ties into the world-ending
[24:17] threats every expansion plays into that.
[24:19] Like, we need the ultimate hero champion
[24:21] to save the world, right? And it almost
[24:24] like amplifies that need of you wanting
[24:28] to be this big hero. And like to me
[24:30] personally, it just becomes this thing
[24:31] of I don't want to be the most important
[24:33] person in all of Azeroth or the hero of
[24:35] the world. Like, I just want to be
[24:37] somebody that's a part of the world. And
[24:39] that doesn't mean I have to be a
[24:40] blacksmith or whatever, but
[24:42] >> Azeroth bleeds.
[24:44] >> She needs to be in a house somewhere.
[24:45] But like, I just I want to just be part
[24:47] of the world in some way
[24:48] >> It was so good.
[24:49] >> the most important person
[24:50] >> So good to laugh on.
[24:52] >> And I think that's just a much more
[24:53] immersive experience. And there might be
[24:55] other people that like like being the
[24:57] champion of Azeroth. That's fine. And
[24:59] it's kind of hard to even
[25:00] >> If they love it, just play a
[25:01] single-player game. MMO RPGs are not for
[25:03] you, son. Like if you love Magni yapping
[25:07] in your ear that you're the sole hero of
[25:09] Azeroth, dog, you're in the wrong game.
[25:12] Like this is not for you, okay? Like
[25:14] just go play something else. Go be the
[25:16] hero in whatever game you choose to be
[25:18] in. World of Warcraft is not your thing.
[25:21] >> And dodge that at this point cuz we have
[25:23] killed Titans. We've killed Arthas.
[25:25] We've killed like Illidan. We've killed
[25:26] all these heroes and everything. So we
[25:28] technically are like these insane
[25:30] champions, but I just hope they figure
[25:32] out a way to just knock it down a few
[25:35] pegs. You know what I mean? Cuz I'm just
[25:37] >> [laughter]
[25:37] >> It like it really does
[25:39] >> You can do it without completely nuking
[25:41] the current story. You cannot do that
[25:43] because it's gone too far. You've
[25:45] already done too much, and I don't think
[25:48] any reoccurring villain would make the
[25:50] cut. So I think Zovaal should kind of
[25:52] end the world with the last Titan, and I
[25:55] think classic plus should be the new
[25:57] standard. I think Blizzard does have a
[25:59] way out with this, and I really hope
[26:00] they would take that ticket.
[26:01] >> pull you out of it um
[26:04] when everybody else is also a hero and
[26:06] you're like, "I'm the hero." And it's
[26:07] just yeah, like I said, if everyone's
[26:09] the hero, nobody's the hero. Now with
[26:10] all that being said, I kind of want to
[26:12] wrap this up with one of my favorite
[26:13] parts of retail WoW in terms of
[26:15] immersion, and that's a lot of the
[26:17] community events or holiday stuff
[26:19] because
[26:20] >> Yes, he's talking about the Darkspear
[26:23] Trolls rainbow dash run. Yes, dude.
[26:26] Dude, I for some reason I missed it. I
[26:29] wish I was there. I wish I was there. I
[26:31] heard it was like it's great event.
[26:33] Wait, did it actually happen? I don't
[26:34] even know, you know. I I'm not been
[26:36] following up with the times, but uh
[26:38] people were excited for it. Yeah, for
[26:39] sure, for sure. There was a lot of
[26:41] discourse around it.
[26:42] >> Um much like the soup event with the
[26:44] Tuskarr, it's not the most important
[26:47] event. It's nothing crazy, right? It's
[26:49] just helping the the chef make soup, but
[26:52] it was one of my favorite parts of
[26:54] Dragonflight. Like you just show up at
[26:55] the Tuskarr area and they're just like,
[26:57] "Hey, come on down. We're making a big
[26:59] pot of soup." And they're just stirring
[27:00] it up and everyone's contributing and
[27:02] gathering stuff and you see everybody
[27:04] else like contributing. You're like,
[27:05] "Dude, this is so fun, right?" Like
[27:07] everyone's working together and it
[27:09] creates that sense of like immersion in
[27:11] the world and community and you're
[27:13] you're all helping the Tuskarr make this
[27:14] soup and they're just like, "Hey,
[27:16] everybody come eat it, right?" Those are
[27:17] some of my favorite events. Like even
[27:19] helping the ancients in the Emerald
[27:21] Dream. I enjoyed doing that and I'm sure
[27:23] there's people that didn't enjoy doing
[27:24] it but
[27:25] like those were some of my favorite
[27:26] events. And so, it's one of the reasons
[27:29] I love holidays where you have things
[27:30] like Brewfest and everybody's gathered
[27:32] around at the festival and everyone's,
[27:34] you know, drinking and running around
[27:36] and it's like
[27:38] more music that immerses you in,
[27:41] right? And so, I I really love those
[27:43] types of things cuz it makes it feel
[27:44] like the world is alive. It makes it
[27:46] feel like everybody's out and about.
[27:48] They're doing their thing and, you know,
[27:50] it's nothing groundbreaking. We're not
[27:52] saving the world, but we're just living
[27:53] in the world of Warcraft. And so, it
[27:55] actually gets really depressing. You're
[27:57] kind of sad or eerie to me even when I
[28:00] go to something like Brewfest and it's
[28:02] it's like an empty server or just
[28:04] nobody's there. Like maybe it's towards
[28:06] the end of Brewfest
[28:06] >> or it completely filled with bots. Yeah,
[28:09] don't forget about option number three
[28:11] there, which is the most likely one.
[28:13] >> cuz people have already gotten all their
[28:14] stuff and you're just like walking
[28:15] around. It's just empty.
[28:17] And I'm just kind of like,
[28:20] um I guess I'll
[28:21] get a beer or do my ram racing. It's
[28:24] just you walking around alone. Maybe one
[28:26] person like runs by and it's just like
[28:28] >> [laughter]
[28:29] >> and you're just like,
[28:30] "Okay." Like that that's another thing
[28:32] that just pulls me out of the immersion
[28:33] cuz I'm like, "Where are the people at?
[28:35] Like is the game dying?" Like it like
[28:37] that really does pull me out. So,
[28:40] I think
[28:41] the the main point I'm trying to get at
[28:43] here with everything that I've gotten at
[28:45] is
[28:47] there's a lot of different things that
[28:48] make up immersion and some of them
[28:50] impact the game I'd say more than others
[28:52] and some of them maybe even impact
[28:54] certain people more than others, right?
[28:55] Like some people might feel very
[28:58] immersed when they're doing all these
[28:59] like RPG elements like buying arrows or
[29:01] doing these things and other people
[29:02] might not feel immersed at all. I'd say
[29:04] it's also a very subjective type of
[29:07] thing to you know deal with like
[29:09] different
[29:09] >> He's absolutely right and that's what
[29:12] actually makes developing an MMO so
[29:14] difficult because you always have
[29:16] constant struggle balancing between
[29:19] immersion and
[29:21] gameplay, right? There's always this
[29:23] discussion Jeff Kaplan used to talk
[29:25] about it like way back in the day when
[29:27] he actually worked on World of Warcraft,
[29:29] right? You know the the famous quotes of
[29:32] dragons don't actually hide loot beneath
[29:34] their wings. Yeah, you know that's true,
[29:36] right? That's obviously. So I mean yeah,
[29:39] you always have that constant discussion
[29:41] but I think if Blizzard actually were
[29:44] talented and had some competent people,
[29:46] they would have managed to pull this off
[29:48] like they had back in the day.
[29:49] >> People are going to have different
[29:50] things that immerse them into a world
[29:52] but at the end of the day I think most
[29:55] people want to be immersed in the world
[29:57] and most people want to live in the
[29:59] world and feel like they're a part of
[30:00] this world and
[30:02] really can pull you out of it when so
[30:05] many of these little things add up and
[30:08] it hits a point where you're just like
[30:09] why am I not feeling that sense of
[30:11] immersion and I think all of these
[30:13] little things going one way or the other
[30:15] way, right? Making you feel immersed or
[30:16] not feel immersed really do add up and
[30:19] change how you feel and so
[30:22] yeah, I just wanted to make that video
[30:23] and rant about immersion cuz it's been a
[30:26] topic that's just been on my head for a
[30:27] while. So thanks for watching. If you
[30:29] want more videos, I just made
[30:31] >> Yeah, dude this guy is great. I think
[30:33] that's the second video of him that I
[30:34] watched. This video he absolutely
[30:36] cooked. Thank YouTube for recommended it
[30:38] to me I think but I'm going to leave it
[30:40] link You guys should watch it for
[30:42] yourself. Give him a like. That was
[30:43] amazing.