Fresh Start SEO Agency Success In The UK - Adam Collins Interview

[00:01] SEO has always been like a lagging indicator. You can see you can get share type approach. Because obviously you have no control over their sales rest of it, their shipping, returns, all the rest of it. So I've always sort of

[00:14] steered a little bit away from that. Sales is very subjective based on the sales person you have doing the job, so. We sped that up using AI to like 15 How have you found operating your business in the UK over the last few

[00:27] with this this kind of government mismatch of what's actually going to happen and what is happening? Very very bearish over the UK economy. going to see tons of businesses going

[00:40] going to see tons of businesses going out of out of business, like

[00:53] where I'll be interviewing SEO experts and entrepreneurs from around the world. In today's episode, I've got a very cool guest for you today, a young guy from all the way from my home area basically, the West Midlands in the UK, who has got

[01:07] a very successful agency, previously been in web development, has done talks across the UK, and starting to talk internationally now as well. Please ladies and gentlemen. Pleasure. Pleasure, Charles. Hello,

[01:21] want to give people a bit of a background into yourself and how you got started in SEO? Yeah, for sure. I mean, my earliest yeah, memories of SEO was I was working in a web design development company and

[01:35] a massive one. And the Google penalties just dropped. And like they had I think they had they had thousands of SEO customers and the vast majority had got were absolutely tanked. And it was me and a couple of other people

[01:51] we were tasked with creating a onsite SEO team to start going through and basically removing all of the on-page spam. So, 2012? Something like that? 2012, 2013? Um I wasn't a big fan of it, to be

[02:04] substantial amount, and then later on dividends um when I started my own agency, cuz obviously I could start offering SEO, and then obviously it just snowballed from there. But I've been in

[02:16] in and around it for a long time, but doing it properly for 3 4 years. your background kind of in web development has helped or maybe even influenced your approach going into SEO? Yeah, I think it helped a lot. So, I was

[02:30] a I was a web WordPress web developer, then I was a Magento developer um with PHP, etc. Uh I ran a web agency, so I managed a lot of developers. We had very managed a lot of developers. We had very big projects. Um I feel that when I set

[02:43] the agency up, I think having that level of base foundation just helps along the little bit further along. You know, like if you've got technical problems, um you know, why is this not being

[02:57] indexed, etc. I do really feel that. And one of the things since I've been hiring SEOs in-house, is I do feel like a lot of people now are very very reliant on, you know, like Elementor or like these page builders, which are fine, but the

[03:09] problem is is that when an issue crops up, you don't really know how to be able to solve that problem. So, um or without having to hire an external developer. So, I feel that the uh the web development background was probably very

[03:22] beneficial. Um but I probably To be To be honest with you, I knew I should have been getting into SEO probably 3 4 years before that, and but uh you've developed as well. You kind of very precious over like, "No, I'm a developer. That's my

[03:35] over here. I'll leave that over there. So, um but yeah, no, it's I'm glad I some web development actually yesterday the first time for a long time, and I the first time for a long time, and I find it substantially more uh laborious

[03:49] and boring than I that a decade ago. So, I'm glad I don't do it every day, but I good. Yeah, 100%. So, you actually run a previous kind of full-service agency before you transition into a proper SEO

[04:02] agency. What made that decision? Was it just that you kind of saw the the scalability and the kind of that focus and the attention and stuff? Yeah, so the the full-service agency was good and we had some really big clients

[04:14] as well, like international clients. The problem we have well, I could see with of all trades, master of none. So, you're trying to be the you're like, my god, I need some processes for over here now." Which is just not scalable.

[04:28] here now." Which is just not scalable. Um two, it's extremely feast and famine. months and we need to hire some people." And then at the end of the 6 months you going to extend it? Are they going to ask for additional work?" Which I always

[04:40] found was pretty edgy. Um and three, it was based, you know, we had like a office, we had a lot of overhead. The staff were within like a small radius because everyone needs to drive into the office. Um and I could never scale it

[04:53] past a certain point. And you know, I'm sure there's very successful people found it really, really hard. And the web development side was just being crushed by Squarespaces and all the rest of it. So, I've seen it as a little bit

[05:06] sure that then there's people doing it very well. But I've seen that it was for me I think it was it was on its way out. And again, I know people will disagree with that cuz people do it very well, but in that sense. So, I was

[05:20] actually watching uh COVID had just hit and I was sat in my office which I had massive overheads on by myself. Like, "Oh my god, what have I done this for?" And uh I was watching a Ryan Stewart Blueprint video and he was just on about

[05:34] SEO. So, I literally was just like, "Right, sold my shares uh in the company to my business partner exited that and then just went and started again from August 2020. Uh and I'm so glad I did it, to be fair,

[05:49] like all people There's never a good time to do things, and I think sometimes When you know it's the right time, you just need to jump. position. 100%. And I'm glad it's worked out so

[06:02] well for you as well. Um so, I know you're involved in a lot of groups. You do local events, business networking events, conferences, kind of all all things, right? What was your main source of leads for your agency, and what's

[06:16] for your agency? Yeah, no, it's a it's a really good uh I'd say the main source of leads for me has been networking in the right types

[06:28] of places. So, I've always done networking. I've always went to these events, etc. I think speaking is a great way of getting customers. It's basically a 30-45 minute pitch. But without doubt, the the best form for me has been going

[06:41] to London and paying to be in private networks. That has been without doubt the best uh best lead source for me. Um it's a it's a little bit of a slower process. You can't come into it like gung-ho like

[06:54] you know, where you're like, "I do this." And they're like, "I do this." And you just trying to like get uh get business from each other. But I think paying to be in the right rooms with extremely high-net individuals and

[07:06] working on, "Okay, what do they want?" Being interested in them. Can I help? I month for anything? Do you want me to have a look over that? Oh, well, they're not doing

[07:19] backlinks, not doing this. You know, it opens doors. And I think that's myself 10 years ago, when I was running the agency, that's what I would have done, which is make sure, you know, pay money if you need to to be in the room

[07:32] with the right people and solve problems for them. And I think then everything we have like a multitude of leads. Like I said, we get leads from speaking. although it's not like a massive massive focus for us. We get a lot of referrals.

[07:46] But yeah, definitely like networking with high net individuals is is a big And now for a quick message from our sponsor, Search Intelligence. If you're looking for digital PR campaigns, what you're about to see should impress you.

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[08:55] you inspiration. How have you improved your sales process your own successful? Yeah, no no. So sales process is actually something we're going to revisit. So I we got to a stage where

[09:09] we decided to implement an operations manager internally. So the last I'd say 6 to 9 months we've been really focused on trying to solve the get hit by bus test. Like, okay, Adam gets hit by bus. Like, can we survive? Can content

[09:23] this? Can we do that? Sales is something we're going to revisit soon. Um you need to always continue to develop it. For us personally, we

[09:35] selling something which everyone sells. So, there's not a lot of uh, you know, What's this?" I feel like a lot of people just say that they sell the same service. So, what we tried to do, we came up with um, like an SEO health

[09:50] audit type thing. It's a low-cost tripwire. So, it's 150 quid. But, it was a good way of like qualifying people that they'll at least spend money before we start going ahead and doing things. And then we sold a uh,

[10:02] we sell like a a 12-week, we call it a 12-week fast track. And the way that we other agencies aren't going to be speaking like this for around about, months worth of work in a 12-week period. You know, we're going to get

[10:16] your topical strategy right, technical stuff right, implement and improve key through this thing called the SEO launchpad. And the SEO launchpad is just like a fancy way of saying basically like entity stacking, like building the

[10:28] like entity stacking, like building the brand as an entity, doing PR, doing uh, social profiles, doing citations, doing all that that cool stuff and guest posting and link building. And um, and packaged up like that,

[10:41] the PR element as well. And I think that gives us a separator from other agencies Um, and then after that, we work with them on a recurring retainer basis. And we find that that's a nice way of Also as well for cash flow, it's a nice way

[10:55] the client initially to get things set up, etc. without having to, you know, front-load a lot of work going forward. Yeah, when I used to run out my e-commerce SEO agency before I sold it, we would do a

[11:08] revenue retainer basis. So, any additional cash flow that we generate on earning on average before, we would get the difference between that. You know, But, the issue was we didn't

[11:21] No, it did it did work. But, but what I had to do was make sure that for the first 30 days, we didn't take anything from their revenue, but they had to pay just wouldn't work, right? There there there'd be an occasional client that

[11:36] would be like, "Okay, actually, they've done so little and they've got so little opportunity here that we're actually just going to be able to, you know, you can spend a thousand dollars and 10x their revenue overnight on on this site,

[11:48] but that's very rare, right? Um and so you you kind of have to take on board front-loading stuff and your business cash cash flow is going to be pretty things, right? And that initial It also gives you a ton of work to do initially

[12:04] building, the technical analysis, the content plan, the strategy, the in one go and the the client kind of pays for it upfront without having to that makes it more profitable for you. Yeah, for sure. And obviously, one of

[12:20] always been like a lagging indicator. So, getting that stuff done early on and pivoting to that as well of actually charging even more upfront. Um but

[12:32] being able to go for and do like all of the content in say like in a topical "Look, rather than us doing say five pages and then we'll do cuz we usually do about 6,000 words per month for a customer." Um and it's great and we

[12:45] there, but you're always sort of elongating things out further along. So, that, which is front-loading a substantial amount, charging a lot more mainly on the content side so that they obviously can get the topical coverage a

[13:01] interesting concept as well. We have People have asked me before about it, but it's it's a tricky one. I can see you could get burned sometimes doing like the revenue share type approach cuz obviously you have no control over their

[13:14] the rest of it, their shipping, returns, and all the rest of it. So, I've always sort of steered a little bit away from that, but yeah, I guess you it's it could be extremely lucrative if you get the right projects.

[13:26] there's also there's all sorts of things to take into consideration. When you're e-commerce stuff, a lot of it's actually still phone up and buy, you know, 10% 20% average phone and you don't pick up

[13:39] increasing your by quite a lot, right? And it's especially in certain markets. Yeah, we've got a bespoke jewelers which we work with and there we get a lot of traffic to a lot of pages and that's that's the same thing. It's like we're

[13:53] to that bespoke stuff. It's like people aren't necessarily buying online and then that that leads so that we're like pivoting at like, right, we need to do people on the phone because are you really going to drop 15 20 grand on a

[14:06] ring and have not tried it on for your misses or something like that. So that's their sales team and how are they handling that? Are they getting back to people quickly, you know, etc. etc. So that's

[14:18] always made me a little bit edgy on it because sales is very subjective based job, so. Yeah, I think the the best setup is kind setup where they try and actually get a stake in the business and try and then

[14:33] and get 10 20% of the business and say, "Hey, look, you can outsource your outsource, you know, all of your IT systems, your website, all of that costs. We'll do everything for you and not only that, but we'll actually 10x

[14:46] your lead generation and stuff, right?" That's probably the only real solution variables when it comes to revenue share and stuff. Um so so I want to talk about algorithm updates, the the bane of SEO existence.

[15:00] to your agency or are you dealing with such kind of niche or local clients that No, to be honest with you, our clients are doing really well, which is which is nice to see. I do feel like the foundation layer stuff which we've been

[15:13] positioning in the marketplace, we're not trying to sell crazy high retainers, retainers. We're trying to be the sort of the middle man for businesses who

[15:25] they want to get SEO done properly, but they might not have the budget or the month. They've got like a marketing manager who needs support. So, in that sense, we don't have the the largest budgets to be able to work with. So, a

[15:39] core element of what we do is really the foundations and trying to do things foundational link building is sorted, making sure we're doing good quality um across the site to different areas of the site, and then really putting a big

[15:53] focus on on content. And I think we put a lot of time building these topical maps for the customers. I know um uh what's the chap from Keyword Insights Andy Chadwick. Um yeah, that yeah, he I showed him uh

[16:07] well, obviously we use Keyword Insights, but then what we do is we go in and we uh we think it's called Mind Master, this tool. But, it's really it's a customers because they see their whole uh topical strategy mapped out, whether

[16:21] know, the search volume, keyword difficulty. We go through and do all the intents. So, it's really nice road map for them to go through and see like how it's actually a very good sales tool to keep people retained as well. Because if

[16:36] this and people can visually see it, they're a lot more committed to stay for another year, 2 years. Fortunately, because we've not we've stayed away from doing too much of the trickery type stuff, we haven't had too many too much

[16:48] You'll always have one, I think, which is it's it's been doing dodgy stuff for like 10 years or something, and it's finally caught up, or like a lot of their backlink profile now is, you know,

[17:00] and you have to go through the disavows and stuff like that. But, no, we try and the work we try and do, we try and do it in an evergreen way, which isn't um which again, we could probably get

[17:13] it's always been one of those when I speak to business owners, I'm trying to speak to them as another business owner rather than an SEO. And it's like, yeah, we can do a lot of this stuff, but yeah, we don't want to

[17:25] on down the line. But I think that's a really good commitment to like my team as well. Like most times the algorithm updates hit, our team do like we have a the rankings do go up, which is really really we really really pleased about. I

[17:38] see from a local point of view though is like the sites which have these we're going after all of these cities, they don't have those locations. They're the ones which really we see struggle these days with it. It's been and then

[17:51] for Manchester." It's like, you have one page on Manchester. So, and you're based in London. Like it fortunately that that's what we've seen is from the local point of view is is just substantially harder now to rank

[18:03] Manchester as a separate entity, a separate business, social profiles, citation signals, PR to it, then we found that you can still do very well willy-nilly uh oh, we're just going to create a mass page builder for every

[18:18] that doesn't seem to work very well these days for us anyway. makes total sense. Are you utilizing AI within your agency much as well? I know that you use one of my GPTs that I never got out of alpha, but I know it was it

[18:33] that for a little bit. Are you using any other AI tools in your agency? Yeah, I'm actually doing a talk in in about a month in Birmingham actually could leverage AI for that for their agency. So, we yeah, we adopted it

[18:49] initially. Obviously guest posting links and stuff etc., but we we adopted it for the content process internally, and we've had like a ton of success on that. And I know it's it's a very I know obviously you probably use

[19:02] hired a really really like competent content manager who's like got private tuition, uh who'd like who's offered private tuition for like a number of years very very high-end. We've also just uh

[19:16] onboarded another content uh person who was uh working for Business Insider. But again, we're hiring that them now fully as content editors. Um but we've built a really robust, I think, process for for for content editing. So, using ChatGPT,

[19:31] but using like uh what's it called? AI PRM, is it? I'm trying to think of Yeah, that's it. Which uh which helps a lot making sure you change the tonality, making sure we're being very very specific, where we're still doing

[19:44] moving it in, and then working paragraph by paragraph, then changing the tonality, making sure the statistics and all the rest of it in there. So, we've scale up content substantially. So, I think that's definitely somewhat

[19:58] use. But we've used it for a lot of different areas as well. So, we've used it for um the keyword uh getting it from like where we get it from keyword insights, we analyze it all, then we bring it into

[20:12] the mind map, which was a very manual process before, but a really good deliverable. So, like that for example, we sped that up using AI to like 15 minutes. Now, it used to take like 6 hours. So, that's like a nice a nice

[20:25] pro. Um I think end-to-end we're trying to speed things up. Even like things looking for link inserts on sites, looking for um internal link suggestions. Like I'm I love using uh some of the plugins on there to be able

[20:38] to just say, "Look, this is site. We you know, we the things you speak about is when you get a guest post, getting other pages on that website to link to that guest post to power it up, so it's not an orphan

[20:50] page. Like I found ChatGPT being very good on that, just to use like a plugin, producing a guest post on this on that site. Can you find me two three other link to this?" And then sending them through to the client. So, yeah, there's

[21:03] a a lot which we've used um from an AI point of view. And we really want to try and start looking at the sales side and how we can integrate AI to really build a sales pipeline and handle a lot of the back and forth with

[21:17] with site owners and doing audits and stuff like that. But that's for this you about that cuz I'm sure that you'll be able to give some advice on that sort Yeah, 100% we can we can look at it in Dubai. And I'm sure there's going to be

[21:29] things in Dubai anyway that's going to definitely help with help with all of presentations and I can already tell you there is. So, 100% yeah. So, the the and it's it's a bit of a sad note to end on. The UK.

[21:49] exactly been the the easiest last few years when it comes to business, politics, travel, everything. When it comes to it just seems to be like a cascading kind of effects, right? With COVID,

[22:02] Brexit, the war in Ukraine, all sorts of things happening, right? business in the UK over the last few years and especially kind of dealing with this this kind of government mismatch of what's actually going to

[22:15] happen and what is happening? Yeah, no, it is a little bit of a sad note. To be fair, I'm very very bearish over the UK economy. I've been for a I'm extremely negative over it, which is like a bit of a

[22:29] of my money of my money in either US stock US index funds or in gold, uranium, stuff like that because leaving

[22:41] your money in the bank these days is especially in the UK like it's it's absolutely criminal and I think people aren't aware just how much inflation is wealth, but their company's wealth as well. I think

[22:54] actually my accountant I was speaking to them not too long ago and they were like, this is the first year they're not going to hire a graduates for like the last 20 years because like minimum wage now is

[23:07] is ridiculously high and like the living wage what people want to be on and need to be on in order to keep it at cost to be able to live is high now and whether the other day because there's two sides

[23:19] of every coin. One of the sides is yeah, people need to be paid more 100% I get impact on that business owner because where they could have had hired, you know, five or six employees maybe maybe they now need to only hire two or maybe

[23:32] they can only hire two or three. So I feel like the inflation in salaries as business owner and unfortunately a lot of people are going to do what I do and you do which is outsource a lot of it abroad now and

[23:47] it's like it is actually really it's sad and I don't know like we've got like there's 11 of us and I think about seven in the UK and then five four or five in yeah in the Philippines so it's quite maybe 12 but

[24:01] but I can like I've I tell my my operations manager like one of her tasks is like how do we not hire in the UK as such now? How do we outsource elements of that? And it's a it's a super depressing chat but the

[24:15] problem is is that it's it's hard because you're being hit from like every possible angle. It's like okay so it's cost more to get those but then your corporation tax has

[24:28] gone up as well and then you've got sales tax and like it's like there's like taxes everywhere. So and Tax shipping to the the EU now and stuff Exactly but the problem is as well is the economy's not it's not like we're

[24:41] paying a lot of taxes and living in this utopia. It's like the economy's failing because of like I said the network and it's a big part of what I want to do but of London? Probably not. Do you know like it's my friend uh yeah, got his

[24:58] Rolex stole not not that long ago in London. So, now he like his new Rolex he and he walks around hiding it. I've always said like I'm like, "What? I me, it just seems like a absolute death sentence." But, um

[25:12] from that point of view, I think is that it's it's tricky and I think it's going it's it's tricky and I think it's going to really I think there's going to be a to see tons of businesses going out of out of business. Like, I really do feel

[25:27] either going to have to pivot and outsource a lot of it abroad in order to do a lot of those medial tasks there or like a lot of companies are just not think anyway. And the sad thing is it's not going to be those big companies

[25:40] either. It's going to be like your mom and pop businesses with like two to 20 like, "This this makes no sense anymore. It's like this is pointless." So, which is very sad. So, on a somber note, we'll finish it there.

[25:54] Yeah, no, I agree. from the outside. still hire a lot in the UK cuz the manufacturing company, right? So, we had over 400 people last year in the UK. We've cut down now to under that to in

[26:07] Yeah. but it's it's main issue because we're we're trying to hire entry-level people. So, we're trying to hire people who are filling cushions or people who are moving a

[26:22] Yeah. And those those sorts of positions So, 20K a year now, isn't it? That's the I think it's more than that. It's like maybe 21, 23K a year or something like that full time, right? And especially if

[26:36] overtime at things like Christmas when you're having to shovel stuff out the door and things like that. It it it's just kind of overwhelming for a lot of business owners. And a lot and also if a lot of business owners don't prepare or

[26:48] kind of seen it coming, which I don't understand how you haven't seen this years. You should have been prepared. And even some companies that are, you years old, they've gone out of business in the last in the last few years,

[27:02] right? And it's like there's a kind of cascading effect. It wasn't just this or just that, it was all of these things together had kind of overwhelmed this or cash flow anymore to operate. And they kind of just had to liquidate. And

[27:15] could pick up some nice employees I was going to say like we've we've actually seen but we did like a bit of a sorry yeah we did a bit of a hiring thing the other day for a new content manager, a few

[27:28] because of a lot of places are like letting go now. Like I think we've seen quite a few from places like Business Insider, seen quite a few from the the they're letting them go. They're like yeah we're we're closing this team down,

[27:43] like you said on that side it's probably right employees. My worry is though is I think where I started where I so I didn't go to uni and I was just like I found a web company I was like look I'll

[27:56] be the lowest paid employee I'm not bothered like I just want to get in and I got a job there when I was 17. And I think I was on 12 grand a year. And I the door and then obviously from that but now it's like you it like that's a

[28:10] big decision it's like do I want this person with no experience to pay 22 it's like you could not get that foot in the door to get that experience which I that thousand pounds a month because obviously in the UK that's still within

[28:23] getting a thousand pounds a month. And that's back then that was livable. So like you you could actually as as as long as you your family or friends or something. As long as you can get to work which now

[28:36] your oyster card in London is like 280 or 320 pounds per per month. You know, that used to be 100 quid a month. You know, you've got your food tripled just getting out of control. So, I generally think that it's actually like

[28:51] take those opportunities anymore because they're having to look for something higher even though they should even though it actually get like say get career path that is going to get them to where they want to be in life. They kind

[29:04] but actually they're starting at these positions which probably don't lead to anywhere which again is just creating this this economy of stagnation where people aren't moving forward and and and nothing's moving forward. And this is

[29:17] also why I created and started the IT and SEO recruitment agency in the UK is because I think we have such a massive pool of talent in the UK that is amazing that could that can effectively work also under a lot of different time zones

[29:31] it's fairly good for Asia, it's great for Europe. You can even kind of work some extent. I I think that it's this this massive talent of pool this massive pool of talent, but there isn't a lot of

[29:45] if we can get opportunities from elsewhere cuz there's just an abundance companies are moving to remote positions especially with marketing especially with SEO. We can fulfill a lot of these positions with amazing talent that they

[30:01] don't necessarily have to pay the same price as they do in the US or something the UK to a position that we're still competing with the US. But thing and I think that you were you said something earlier where you moved to

[30:13] London to kind of be in this circle. I think unfortunately London's like the only place left in the UK to do business. But I I will say to to an something going on for it. There is some there is some there is some good

[30:28] business going on up in Edinburgh, but it's still nowhere near the league that London it is and London's kind of in its own league when it comes to business and stuff in in in the UK which isn't again it's not really the same in like even

[30:40] like Germany has some has different metropolitan hubs that are killing it in the economy. Even France like Paris is up there but you still got Leon and really well. And Birmingham itself isn't the same. You know, Manchester massive

[30:55] So I think that there's just like I said I think that there's just a lot of cascading effects and I'm hoping that business moves on. So ending on more of a happy note, where can people find more of your positivity online and where can

[31:08] negatives. Yeah, no. Collins SEO. Um I stuff on YouTube now. So we've just hired a someone to do marketing for our

[31:22] company. So we're always hiring people to do marketing for the companies but we're finally hiring someone to like kick me up the bum and make me start producing stuff on socials and do more talks and all the rest of it. So

[31:34] similar Adam Collins SEO. And then I'll be releasing a a book soon well like an ebook type thing soon as well. It was actually you and Jason Barnard who really started like honing down on the

[31:47] foundational entity stuff. So I've we've done it internally but I've put it into that'll be releasing really soon. Just about cuz again what you were saying before about how do you optimize your business so you're not you know,

[32:01] spending hundreds of pounds in guest posts. And I was speaking to the chap day. Like I do feel like one of the things which has actually gave us a bit of an edge when working against bigger agencies is the fact that we do all of

[32:13] our link building in house and we're able to negotiate very very like lower costs for the links that we we build. But again, before you even get to that doing building the entity, building your trust

[32:26] I'm releasing an ebook on that soon. So that'll be I think on like Google Books I'll 100% send it over to you first Charles so you can get rid of anything I say which is incorrect. Well, I appreciate it. I'll I'll look

[32:39] you. And I'll link all those in the description down below, and I'll see you description down below, and I'll see you guys in the next episode. Peace.