How to Turn YouTube Shorts Into Long-Form Success

There are so many different ways that you can succeed on YouTube. And a lot of you over the years have actually done a lot with shorts. And for me, I was kind of like, I don't really like shorts when it first came out. Uh cuz it wasn't really integrated into YouTube properly. And it took a few years. And so finally, a couple years ago, shorts uh not only can bring benefit to your channel. They can bring

subscribers, bring awareness, uh but ultimately bring new viewers to your long- form videos. So, uh if you're new to me, my name is Daryl Ees. I've been on YouTube since 2005. I've generated about 140 billion video views here on YouTube. Just love it. Love the platform. Love helping people. Uh I also am a founder of a conference called VidSummit. We're going to talk about that a little bit later. It's where creators go to really learn the

trade, kind of learn the secrets, you know, here to really build these empires on YouTube. Uh, and so today I actually have one of my students uh that I'm really impressed with uh that he just jumped onto YouTube uh was kind of looking for ways to get his uh physical business uh more visibility and now is kind of blossomed into this massive massive empire. and I'm really excited to see what he does in the next few

years. And so, uh, for me, if you wouldn't mind just putting where you're from in the comments, and I'm going to welcome on our guest here, uh, we're going to have a really, really in-depth conversation about the learnings that he was able to do here on YouTube when it comes to shorts and then converting those to long form videos. So, hey, uh, Mark, how are you doing? >> That was some intro, buddy. Thank you very much.

>> So, I'm super excited to have you here. If you if you're not familiar with Mark, Mark is uh someone that does landscaping. Um and you you think that that could be boring or whatever. Uh some of his videos are so engaged. There's like this so uh this big following that that's looking for every little transformation that he does. Um, and I'm really excited to talk to him because I think a lot of people, um, you

know, that I've helped had a physical business they were coming on YouTube to promote. Um, and so why don't you kind of share a little bit about your journey, Mark, about coming onto YouTube and then your very specific tactical um, ways to kind trying to expand your landscaping business. >> Yeah. So when when I started Shorts, it was just a way to use um social media to push my business. So we started in what feels like

a lifetime ago. We started in 2023 and there was a few reasons why I actually started. A lady said that we blocked a drain up. Um I kept seeing Gary Vee pop up saying create content, create content, create [laughter] content. Um, and then unfortunat unfortunately I lost one of my very very good friends to suicide and it was like um kind of the perfect storm for me just to go in my own brain and I just

started editing videos and the first video that I put on did 25 million. So as you can imagine I thought I can retire. I've made it. I don't need to work anymore. Unfortunately it didn't quite happen like that but my my next video did a thousand views. So from 25 million to a thousand. that I was like, "Hang on a minute, so much doesn't add up here." So, I kind of started searching on how to make

a video and structuring it well. And in 2023 to 2024, I just spent every spare second I had in just learning content behaviors, what are people interested in? Um, and just >> how were you like how were you actually uh digging in and learning that? Like what were what were you doing specifically? >> Searching videos. So that's when I first ever come across VidSummit and and watching the talks on VidSummit and um mainly what I've learned

very early on is um people get so hellbent on algorithms. The algorithm doesn't like my video or I'm being shadowbanned. The sad truth of it is your videos are just weren't good enough or mine weren't good enough. So, I started to understand why people watch my videos and I kind of unlocked it pretty quick just from really studying on on how to structure a video. The first frames, every second counts. It gets obviously as time's getting

on, it's getting the retention rate getting shorter and shorter. So, the first frame now matters. So, I was just studying so much and and then we got to the first year, the end of the first year, and I was just burning myself out. I was doing so much um working for my business as a landscaper, then going to quotations for jobs, then going editing my videos to the point where my message was like, "Look, I'm a

bit worried. I think I think you're going to make yourself ill." And I did. And I nearly quit. And I come across one of Gary's videos again. And coincidentally, it said, "Don't quit." So I was like, "Okay, I won't." So then I took on my first V. I love it. It was so It was so weird how it happened. Um but then I said um I went away on holiday with Tina and weirdly somebody recognized me

from my videos. Um and he was like, "Oh, you're that guy that does the gardening videos." And it made me feel pretty cool. So I said to Tina, I said, "When I get home, I'm going to give it everything. I'm going to take on a member of staff. I'm going to push as hard as I can." And then we we pushed it to 3 million of you uh followers between the two of us after year two.

Um but then it wasn't it really what really wasn't satisfying me and everyone was telling me to do YouTube long form. Um and nobody knows this but um YouTube asked me to go to Switzerland to do like a bit of a roundt talk. Um, and I was I was that embarrassed. I couldn't afford my ticket to go. And I said, "Look, I would love to come, but I don't have money to be able to come." And

YouTube paid for my ticket to go out. That's where I met Tim from the side then. That's who put me on to Channel Jumpstart. And I was like, "Well, what what's channel Jumpstart?" He went, "Trust me, you need this." Um, [laughter] and we managed to get some money together to pay wages because we, you know, at the time we was just using all our money to try and make these production videos and and it was a

bit tough. Um, and then we could drop and talk about that just for a second because I think there's a couple key things that a lot of people are doing. Um, so you're you're just not like turning on the camera and just recording yourself and uploading it. Like your videos had a very big cost uh you know that was included. Do you want to do you want to kind of explain that just so that people can

can understand contextually um why why you didn't have any money? So when when we we decided to go full-time social media after year two and we I felt we was earning money through social media through brand deals and and monetization and it me as a person it felt wrong charging a customer and then making money double the amount of money on social media. So I said to my team well my MS and Jack at the time

I said I think we should do it for free. And she went what? like, "Do you want to do this for free?" And I was like, "Yeah." And she went, "Why?" I said, "Well, it just feels right. Like, if we're earning money from social media, I believe everyone deserves a beautiful outdoor space. Everyone deserves something to go out and see." Well, why don't we attempt to to do it for free? So, then we did. And then

one of the brands that we work with went into liquidation and they owed us it was like $180,000. Um, and that's when it come to breaking point. And I was like, do I stop and just, you know, forget YouTube, forget social media. Um, and then throughout every single pivotal moment of like my career within social media, um, channel Jumpstart was the pinnacle in regards to making me understand how to make a video. >> Yeah. Oh, when

when it come to that that that point in my life where I met Tim um in Switzerland, he was like, I said, I'm spending all this money on videos. I was posting and they were getting 5K. And I'm thinking, I'm doing millions on shorts. Um every video is between five and 10 million, but you don't earn any good money off it compared to long form. Yeah. >> Um so then I was speaking to other creators in

at a YouTube event and everyone was like, "Oh yeah, we earn good money from long form." And I was like, I just can't get it to work. It doesn't make sense. Like, I love landscaping. It's my passion. I love making people happy through my content, but it just wasn't connecting with my audience. >> And it's because I just didn't know how to structure a video properly. >> Yeah. So, there's I I think there's a lot of

people that come on to YouTube and um either they they do it forever and they're not seeing improvement or they have a big hit right out of the gate and and they're like trying to replicate that, but they they have a hard time doing that. And um generally there's there's two two frames. They're like, "Ah, I got to go all in and keep on going harder." And that's what it's like doing that. I got to add

more videos. We got to get more exposure. Uh but realistically it's the economics you know that that really inhibits uh I I think a lot of creators from from doing it is like they they they'll do it for a very long time and they're not seeing a return on the investment of time and so it can get frustrating. Uh, but I think it's kind of serendipitous for you to to meet uh, you know, a key individual

at Sideman, you know, and and having Tim kind of saying, "Hey, look, you know, I can see that you're you're wanting to have a lot more success. There's ways to make that happen." Um, and and pointing you in the right direction. But I think the the thing too um was, you know, there's a lot of people that have that that get that advice like regardless of what the advice is and they don't they don't act on

it. >> Um and and I think that right there is I think the biggest differentiation of of people that just need that small little clarity to take them where they need to be because I think they have all the other components into it, right? And so for me, one of one of the things I love is I love discovering new channels and I'm like, man, they just they almost have it all. They just they're just missing

this little teeny bit, you know, to do it. And for for me, >> uh you know, I saw your shorts and I was like, okay, this is going to be interesting to see if he can convert into long because that's that's hard like like >> say that again. >> Think it's easy. Like I can get a whole bunch of views and then they do it, you know, and then like wait it it doesn't. And and the

reason why is because like there's no choice in your short. Like at the end of the day, there's no choice. You you swipe up, you get to see what is delivered to you and and there's really no choice outside of that first initial, oh, I saw that on the on the homepage or someone shared this with me or whatever. But after that, it it's like roulette. You know what I'm saying? You don't know what you're going

to land on. You don't know what you're going to get, you know? And so it there's uh there's a misconception I think which is I gotta pound out a whole bunch of shorts like 100 a day you know whatever whatever that is just to get that visibility but then two even if you had the views you're having a challenge because uh you know views doesn't equate the same way on shorts uh that it does long form

but even uh regionally so like regionally it goes off your regional ad buy. So like if wherever they're they're watching the views, if they're watching in the UK, if there's not a lot of advertisers trying to advertise on shorts, you're not going to see the revenue that that most people would do. And so what were you doing? Were you doing like brand deals like out of the gate? Because I don't know how you're paying for all

this stuff. Like when you're if you're doing these gardens for free, you know, uploading all these videos, like I I don't even know how you're paying for it. So like what were you doing? Uh was was your other landscaping pest business like supplementing it? Were you getting more jobs or what? What was this? How were you making the money? >> Yeah. So, we when when me and Tina, my misses, um was was running a landscaping company,

we we saved quite a bit of money up um we said for us it was a lot of money. It was £100,000. But when that brand had already committed to go full-time in January last year, so we we'd already committed to do it. and the company that we was um kind of um tied on with partners um he kept saying I'll pay you next month and I said cool like so I'll use a little bit of

my savings because it's coming next month right >> um and then by by February um the money was gone we used it to supplement other people's gardens but I just >> I just knew deep deep down that I was I was meant for this kind of um there when when I surprised the first person Mike, something triggered inside of me and I was like, "Wow, this is what I'm meant to do." Like the feeling you get

from doing it is just it's it's like a drug. Like it's insane. Um so then that run out and then when we come to meet Tim um and then I had an interview with Jackson, I was like, "How am I going to pay for this because I know it's the right thing to do." Um, and then I rang an old brand that I used to work with and said, "Look, um, I know you can't pay me

what this brand was paying me, but I really love your ethos. I love how you work. >> Do you want to sign a side 12-mon contract with me?" And they went, "Yeah." I said, "I'll sign it with you if you send me the money to tomorrow." So, they were like, "Okay." So, they sent me the money and then that's how that's like the channel start thing started. >> Yeah. No, [snorts] I I love that. I love

that. And for multiple reasons because it's like you you saw the opportunity. uh most people would quit especially when they're dipping into their savings and the savings are gone like that you know and it just like it is expensive. Um but um I I do want to I do want to talk about um the giving away for free aspect of it. >> Um I I uh so many people see like a Mr. Beast and they're like,

"Oh, that's all I need to do. That's the the secret of success." Um but you mentioned it was something deeper than that. like like um you know you you felt something and you're like oh my gosh this was so rewarding um and and maybe it would be good to kind of go back in time of like why you went into landscaping and then two what what it actually means for you because I think part of the

journey that creators go on is they're so focusing on their content that they don't really go back to their origin story and realize their why as much. Um, and you know me because I I'm obsessed with that when [laughter] when when you're when you're trying to make it on YouTube. I'm like, "Okay, we gota got to get to the foundation." But, uh, would you kind of share with everybody um, how what I mean what what gardens

and landscaping means to you and and and why you kind of gravitated towards that? >> So, for a long time, I didn't I didn't I knew I like landscaping, but I didn't know my why. And it was you one one of the big aha moments that I had in in Mexico is why why am I why am I almost kind of killing myself doing this really kind of putting every energy I've got into it and and

I'm not getting what I need from it. And it all goes back to my nana. So when I was a kid me and the family we used to go with my nana's and like being on her lawn like just playing frisbee or just being kids on a lawn. That was the happiest moment of my life. And when I can give someone else that feeling, I get the same feeling from going 3, two, one, look at your

new beautiful garden that I did when I was back with my nana. So like I do it to even though she's not with us, but I believe she's somewhere else and and I believe that I'm making her proud and that's the reason that is my why. >> Yeah. Uh and and I think that too is like once you understand that I think there's um it can it can bring more passion but then two um you know

as you reflect on on your past it helps you kind of define your future and >> it kind of unlocks a superpower like now I know what I'm meant to do like and it took me I'm 39 now it only in Mexico this year it's took me to that long to understand what I'm put on is planning for. >> Yeah. And and for those that don't know, I I do kind of the these uh mastermind retreats.

We had one in in Mexico that that Mark attended. Um and that's what he's talking about there. But the I I think that the key to this though is um I you know, over the course of my career, I've I've seen people come and go, and there's people that that reach out to me and all they want to do is be famous. Like, I just want to be famous. I don't care what I do. Just let

me be famous. I'm like, you're talking to the wrong person, man. I I I I I'm I'm I'm more gravitated to people that that are passionate about something and they're trying to um bring value in in a certain realm and um I can't tell you. It's just like, "Oh, no. I just need the views." And they kind of view chase, you know? So, they're either trendjacking or social jacking and I'm like, "Well, why why why did

you do this video?" "Well, it's trending and that's what I'm going to get the views." And I'm like, >> "That I mean, that could be true, but you want consistent views." Like, you might have a one-off view, [laughter] you know? Uh but but do you want that consistently? And I think the consistently is like really finding in you know what you can contribute and I I found you know usually it's that the people that are super

passionate about something that they can they can look back to to to help them create better content. And and so uh for me uh when you look back at that that first video that that took off uh the first you know short that you really took off got millions of views. I don't even how many views was it? Was it 25 million you said or something like that? >> 25 million the first video. Yeah. >> Yeah.

And was that on YouTube or was that on another platform or was that up? >> Facebook. So we didn't we I don't really I I just love YouTube now. So like I I I'm very blessed to have a team around me now that that they'll I voice over my shorts. They put package them, present them to me and I let them post. I don't really get involved in anything other than YouTube now. Um I just focus

on long form shorts I feel as as I'm into wildlife. So as analog analogy for shorts is like a hummingbird. They're brilliant and but they only last for two years. Whereas long forms like an eagle, like it takes a baby eagle doesn't even grow till it's three years old. Yeah. >> So that's how I can in my head kind of partalize it. But >> um for shorts, >> I found it I found it relatively easy to

get kind of millions of views through my content. We've got I think like four billion views now from short form. But it's very early on when like I was telling people, "Yeah, shorts." Like I I felt like a lot of creators just didn't care about shorts, like, "Oh, well done." Like, but it's And when I got into long forms, I was like, "Oh, I'll easily do long form." Boy, was I wrong. Like, it was so I

had to go back to school. >> Yeah. So, let's let's talk about that. So, like, um, how did you find shorts easy? like like is it just the nature of your content or did you figure out when you were doing a lot of learning out there um how to how to put a short together like the components to put a short together? >> Yeah, I've been very blessed because I have um I have ADHD so when

I watch something back if I get bored I just think ah that's that's rubbish and then I'd edit it so my brain would find it interesting to watch. So I just understood it quite quick like making sure that I wasn't doing like long cuts and made it interesting. At the very start it was very kind of ASMR landscaping work. Um then I was like well I want to there wasn't there was only two other people in

my realm at the time in my niche that was doing good content. Um but nobody was talking so I thought well I'll talk. Um then you go through this learning process of you know hating yourself on camera, being embarrassed and your friends taking the mick out of you for it. Um but I very just quickly understood that um all any social media is is just retention. So I I just had to keep people till the end

of the video. So why was they waiting till the end of the video? Was it the transition? Was it me talking about something specific? Um so I kind of just learned that early on that I'd saved the best bit till last. Um, so like building up something or um, if you want to know how much this garden is, let me explain how much went into it and then at the end I tell them the price. Um,

so I was just very if it was a retention game, then I just need to keep your retention or attention. >> Yeah. So, um, like I I found um there's there's a lot of creators that that use shorts and I and um, believe it or not, I'm actually more pro shorts than than I was in the past. Like I >> I had two of the 10 channels that YouTube was uh beta testing when they were coming

to the United States and and I just kind of saw some flaws because of uh you know they're the the and it's not YouTube's fault. I mean the platform's so massive and when you bring introduce something new it's going to break something. It just it just does. It just it just does. And so I noticed that, you know, it it took it took some time for it to be integrated properly into YouTube. And it it wasn't

until about two and a half years ago um that it that it did. It was just there's always just like a bug or some sort or whatever. >> Um but but now um you know, I just finished writing uh my um uh version of YouTube Formula there. It's coming out this year. It's ver version two. It's called YouTube Formula 2.0. And uh we weigh in heavily on shorts because prior to that I I didn't really cover

it. It's like a format, you know, and it was still in that weird state. And so, you know, we have a full section um you know, on shorts and how to leverage that. And I I truly do believe I I think every content creator needs a discovery strategy and and one of those discovery strategies should be looking very closely at shorts. Um I'm I'm a probably >> I probably consume more short form content um than than

I do long form and maybe not in you know not in necessarily watch time but >> like in in consumption um but for me it like if you were to tell me if I remember who made what I I couldn't even tell you that like I I I mean I but I don't know I I don't follow them so I'm like I I don't know who did that. Um, and so for me, there's not that that

loyalty factor >> um unless unless it's kind of built in. And so did your um like when did you do your first long form video? Was it right out of the gate? Was it like when you're coming on YouTube? Uh what what did you learn about posting for the first time and and maybe not seeing the same results that you you thought you would get? >> Yeah. So that that's what um so that's what pushed me

to um when I went to YouTube. That that pivotal moment in my whole kind of YouTube career was was posting videos that I thought that were good and it was just you know flopping and I just couldn't understand why. So when we took Jack on in the beginning of 2025 um we started to we brought Jack in to film YouTube. So, we'd film a video, we'd put it out weekly, and it was just like bits of

landscaping work that we was doing, like bit howtoy stuff. Um, but then there just wasn't like the a good video for us was maybe 10k. We've got a few, we got 120k, but because of how much Jack cost me in regards to like a member of staff and he'd film it and then edit it. So, it was two members, it was two weeks worth of pay um to produce a video that weren't nowhere near covering it.

So, I was supplementing my short form money to pay for my long form and I was saying to brands, I come in, I'll make you a YouTube video and they just wasn't interested. They just wanted the shot, you know, the Instagram and they wanted the Tik Tok. Um, so I just kind of went along with it. And then >> when when I first started to do I think you there isn't just one aha moment for me

my whole career. It's been like little little pivotal moments and like for me it was when I was in I think it was um week three of channel jump start and it was about packaging and I was like what what is packaging? So like the now and people have seen my figures recently on YouTube. So many people are saying how are you doing it? How are you doing it? And it's like like how much do you

want it? Because it's it's it's lot short form. You can pick up a camera. You can go and talk to the video. I did one the other day. It did two and a half million views on Tik Tok. In total it's on 5 million views and it's just me talking to the camera about my garden. It took zero time to edit. It took no time to film it. It was one and a half minutes filming. We

posted it and it's done 2 and a half million views on Tik Tok. And it's like like I've literally spent days editing a video. We post it and it does 100k. What you get from long form is just like once you understand it. It's consistency and it doesn't it's like you mate. It doesn't let you down. If you keep, you know, spending time with it and learning it, you you don't lose you don't lose it like

you do on short form. It's very inconsistent sometimes. I think short form. >> Yeah. very very very much so. Well, let's let's talk about that. So, I mean, uh you hired someone to come on and and help you film and engage and, you know, kind of kind of uh create this content. And then two, it wasn't um you weren't seeing immediate results like like the sponsors didn't want to be there. You know, it took a lot

more time uh putting in that. And then two, um, did you consume like did you do the same thing that you did for shorts when you're going out and seeing what good content is or what what was why wasn't it performing at the level that you thought it would? >> Great question. I think I think the it wasn't performing because I was maybe editing it like a short, if that makes sense, like a long version of

a short. So, it was just very how toy. There was no story line. There was no peppering of the story line. >> Um, >> there was just a a >> there was no reveals like it was just a you know, this is how I'm going to this is what project I'm on. This I'm going to be doing the patio today. Um whereas I quickly found out that no one really cares how to install a patio, but

they care about the story of how a patio makes you feel. So, um >> I tried to go down the route of like a like consuming the um the content of how to create a YouTube video, but it what we was really struggling with um is there was no one out there talking the talk that had walked the walk. There was no one that I could find that was, "Oh, okay. This is how you make a

long form video, but it's got 10k views. So, >> you're not you're not practicing what you preach." So, it was only when I when I found Tim and he was like, "Well, you want to check this guy Daryl out." And I was like, "Who's Daryl?" Then I consumed loads of your content. And I was like, "Yeah, I I need to do this." And that's where my first step in into the kind of the channel jumpst start

realm started really. >> Yeah. Um, so what what I want to focus in on now um and and this is something that I that I put in um my book and and it's something that I'm hyper obsessive with my students because you know that quite well um is is we we focus in on your why and we covered that and then we really drill down into the viewer like like I I think some people say they

go into understanding the viewer you know and and I I I hear what they're talking about I'm like And like we're hyper obsessive with that. I I think we're way hyper obsessive with it. And so >> um it did you did you see a differentiation from the viewer of your short form content versus those that watch your long form and those that watch both the short form and the long form did you did you start seeing

like who they are what what interests that they have like what what did you do going through that? So part of the channel Jumpstart um they teach you to build an avatar. So my avatar is a guy called Dave who's got a young family who's just bought his first house. Um so what what the avatar is is essentially you look at your data and you understand who is watching your content because what I also used to

do is make I always wanted my content to hit everyone. a family can watch it together. Good, heartwarming content that the whole family can watch. Whereas I wasn't creating that. I was creating content that only really a mostly a guy would watch because it's very how to install a patio. Um, so when I built my avatar, it then made me create content for the avatar. So, why am I making content for a a you know, maybe

potentially a 45 year to 55 year old man installing a patio when really I want to be hitting new homeowners or people that have uh have just got a new family and they want to sit down and watch some good content together. So, I need to be creating that. So, then I was thinking, well, what type of content do they want to watch? somebody want to watch something a bit funny, uh, a little bit heartwarming, like

a good paced video, um, but also a real good topic, like most homeowners spend all the money on the deposit of the house and then can't really afford to do the garden. So, me doing a a a garden at £100,000 won't resonate with my avatar. So, then we was like, okay, well, let's see what the average spend of a garden is. And it was like £5,000. So, I said, "Okay, well, let's create a vid. Let's create

a garden for £5,000." That video was the first video from my channel, Jumpstart Learnings, that just took off and it was like, "I took on AI to create a£5,000 garden." That was the title at the time. We've done a lot of testing since. Um, and that video come out the gate, eight out of 10. I know you don't like your one out of 10 metric, but it come out the gate, eight out of 10. I was

super super devastated. I was like, "Oh my god, it doesn't work. Um, I've I've wasted all this time." And then it was a seven out of 10 and a six out of 10. And then I blinked and it was a two out of 10. And then next thing it's doing hundreds of thousands of views. >> And now you know why I hate the one out of 10 data metric, right? >> It causes new anxiety for creators

like see what's going on. And yeah, anyway, don't get me going on that one. >> It's super hard not to look at it though as a creator because we Yes. One out of 10. But I was speaking to Justin uh the other day and I said everything that drops one out of 10 lasts for two days and then it falls out the falls out the group. But anything that starts later in the group just fires up.

Um [clears throat] >> yeah, I try not to look at it and stress me out now. >> Yeah. Um okay. So, so as you're creating content and and um we'll use this one and like, okay, you put a lot more energy and effort and creativity into your your content and um and it underperformed, but then it started to pick up an audience and it really started to take off. Like what made that one different than the

prior content before? Um like what? >> Understanding. >> Yeah, understanding my audience. So, understanding my avatar. Um because I didn't do that before. Like I just created a video that I thought that would do well, but I didn't understand my audience. Um so that was the pivotal moment in creating a video that they actually wanted to watch. >> Yeah. I um I I'm going to say this and I and I don't mean this in a bad

way for short creators because I I don't want them to feel like I'm I'm um hammering on them. I think, you know, every there's a creative outlet and I love um short form content, but uh I I I would say 90% if not more of short form content is just brain rot. Like I I look at it as um like and and I don't mean that in the sense of it's there's no value to it, >>

but it's just like that dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, whatever. and and I just don't um I'm not connected to it. It might be funny. Um I treat it more like a meme, I guess, you know, um where I'm sharing the meme with, you know, someone that I love or, you know, someone that would get the joke or whatever, >> but to know who that creator is, um like like it it is farther from, you know, my my

whole truth. And so like I I'm like I I have a hard time um processing that. And then two, um one of the things I I uh really focus in on, you know, is bringing consistent value to a consistent viewer. And shorts, you don't need to do that. You could literally do complete opposite content, get different viewers, and it's not that they're loyal or anything like that. And then and then um the uh there are content

creators that um get a loyal audience on YouTube uh from shorts um you know but they're they're doing more subscribe bait you know and they're trying to get subscribers from it and you know there's that visibility or so on >> but where's that loyalty factor right there's just just not and and for me >> you know I would rather have 10,000 people consistently connect um than than a million that are not connected to me Right. I

I would rather have that because I I think you could build something from that. You know, I think there's uh if you can if you can get a couple thousand of anything, uh I think YouTube will know what to do with that if if if you do it properly. And so for me, I think, you know, it's a great starting point to get people in. I think it's easier to make short form content. And I think

it's easier to get a short uh short uh form content views, >> but it's hard to convert a short view to a long form video, you know, and and I think you get that, you know, with some curiosity and so on, but >> I I think that's a hard harder uh skill set to to develop. And so when you went into it, uh, you were you looking at the viewer for the short form or were you

looking at the viewer avatar for the long form? Because like where were you getting your data on on understanding who who's watching your long form videos? >> So I never looked I'm until kind of I met you guys, I never really looked at my data other than the view count. So, I' I'd just create a video of what I thought was, you know, a good short. Um, and it would normally do quite well. Um, now I

look at the data from my short form to understand who's watching it, where they're watching it. Um, un just so just so I know who's watching my videos on each platform. So, we've built up a media pack that >> y >> my team present to me every month where it's just who's watching my content, but that's only derived from learning about the short form. So, when when I went on the studio, obviously you you show us

where to find the data, how to find it. Um, so, so I quickly learned I spend so much time into YouTube Studio, it's unreal. probably my [clears throat] most viewed app because you're just always looking at the data and analyzing and >> and my day long form shocks me compared to short form. So like my biggest audience at the minute is 25 to 35 which it used to be 35 to 45. Um but now it's it's

switched. I've got a younger audience. Um they're enjoying it. Even like what's really cool with my content is when you look at my analytics, every age watch my video. Like there's no it is obviously the biggest is the 25 35 but they're all they've all got decent amount of kind of uh percentage. Um and that took that took a lot of time to get that but that's just from understanding my data, building my avatars and and

then making the content knowing who's watching the videos. >> Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And I I think too it's um I think you mentioned prior that some of the videos that you you'd see in the niche and then some of the earlier videos that you're doing was more resonating with a male, right? Um just a strong male >> audience and then this one you know is is definitely uh you know a blended audience in in the sense

of just the through the demographic. I mean, yeah, you might skew a little bit heavier in certain demographics, but your female viewership like skyrocketed like like immediately skyrocketed once you started to um you know, make better content, you know and >> and I I I want to >> uh drill into that because uh one of the things I'm going to I'm going to pull up your channel real quick. Um, but one of the things I love

to do is just like read comments and then um I I love to see um you know what their what their avatar picture is, right? So it's like here we right here. A million views again. Congratulations, guys. >> So you know that she's been following for a while, right? >> Um you're an artist with a big heart. I love comments like that. But it's just like two just trying to see who's watching what. Now, this is

probably the best content um that you can get as a or comment that you can get as a creator. I only found this channel this morning. I binge watched loads of videos. You and Tina are such a great couple. Okay. And I you responded back, you know, which is which is great, but it's like >> found the channel this morning, binge watched. So, like like that that's a new fan. And when someone does that, um, you

know, YouTube's making note on that, you know, and and I I just love to see the variety of different comments that are coming in. Um, I'm a newly uh member. So, you you have a membership, too, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and I love I love I love seeing stuff like this. I love seeing you do uh uh uh kind of acts of kindness of people. There's so much darkness in the world nowadays. It's super

uplifting. So, I mean, they're they're getting behind you. they're they're paying money even if they're watching your videos, you know, um just because they they love what you're doing, you know, and and that for me is is is pretty much audience building 101, you know, when you when you really break it down, it's like like really when you start reading the comments and see seeing comments like that and and then seeing more who they are and

you can kind of drill into it because I taught you how to do this, but drill into it and see a little bit more of who they are. Um, but I think at the end of the day, it's like the reward is so much better. Um, when when your passion, your vision, your mission of what you're doing is being received in a way where they want to see you win. Um, you know, and and they're giving

you money, too, to make sure that you can see the win. Um, and so what I'd love to do is really deep dive into uh your aha moment because you had a couple of them along the way, but I I the most important one that I want all creators to know and understand >> um is is is more about when it clicked for you because I I I've had a lot of students, Mark, over the course

of my career. um you you were one of the fastest implementers once you understood it and then you just kind of hit it. You hit it right out of the gate. Um you know that that that I ever I've ever uh taught and instructed. And I want people to know like like um of course they're not going to sit through a well I don't know even how long that training was. It was like four hours or

something like that. But >> it you know I I I I think that uh the key of it is is just the small principles, right? Um and and I think you um had the elements which was you're very passionate about gardening, right? You um were doing a giveaway of some sort in in that with surprising them. Okay, that's great. There's there's this uh viral component for that as well, but it only took you to a certain

level, right? >> Um and then and then there was a shift of oh wait, I didn't even see this other realm. I didn't even consider this other realm. Do you want to talk into that a little bit because I think this is where most creators fall short. >> Yeah. So the through the through the kind of the first year of Channel Jumpstar, I had loads of the main aha moment was well there was probably three was

the packaging, understanding how to pack your content, the avatar um and then the structuring of a video. like confirming your click in the first sevenish seconds. Um what's the video about? But more importantly, the why. Um but when we was in Mexico, um you know, I kept I took my video. I'd already had it prepared so I could show Justin. I could show you like what you think of this video. You'd critique it. I'd go back

to my room and edit it and then go and find someone else and say, "What do you think of my video?" But then I' I'd really hone down on the the hook and the start of the video. um using inspiration from the creators that I loved. But then you then did a class talking about one of my favorite creators, Ryan Treyan, and it understanding the value of pepperin. And I was just like, what is peppering? And

and you were like, >> you're dropping the storyline in throughout the video so the audience doesn't lose that. And I was like, oh, I don't do that. Why am I not doing that? So then I went back to my room. I made sure this the video was about, you know, transforming a garden. It was all to do with my nana. So then I was like, well, my nana's name was >> literally the most important video you

could ever make because it's your origin story. It's your why. You know, you're going into it, right? But yeah. >> So, so my nana's name was olive and I put an olive tree in the garden at the heart of the garden for that reason. I like why have I not told this story? It was just filmed and not told. So then I peppered the story line in my hotel room and I just went through it all.

Made sure that it was like every 10 minutes or so or it felt like maybe it was two build content and more right, it's getting a bit boring here. I'm going to pepper in. So then I peppered throughout the video and then the full end of the video was a wrap-up of why I installed the olive tree and it was cuz my nana's name was olive and that video out the gate did 500k and I was

like oh my god it works. peppering works. The next video was um I built my wife her own island and it was very origin story because it was me and my my my wife Tina and I was like I want to surprise her. So I brought in a best mate. I thought well if I'm surprising Tina with this building I can't pepper Tina because Tina's not going to see the building until it's done. Who's the next

best thing? Her best mate Amy. Do you want to help me design this building? She was like absolutely. So then Amy was the pepper in and then that video did a million in a couple of days and I was like I've got it. I've got it and I know how to do it. And then the next video did at 1.3 million and I was like right now I understand I need to pepper. Um so that was

the biggest aha moment because what a lot of creators do is they'll set the video up and they'll they'll put the video out but then the story lines just disappear throughout the video. >> Um for me that was my my gamechanging moment up to now. >> Yeah. And I I I would say this, I think a lot of great creators know how to do packaging, right? Um they have they have great packaging. They know what their

video is about. Um and when you jump on uh you you say, "Okay, this is fulfilling on that promise of that what I can honestly say that there's not a lot of creators that that give me a reason why I should watch the video." Like, yeah, I know what you're doing. Like I get it, but like why why am I going to put my life on hold and watch your video and [clears throat] and and some

do that and then they do what I call a bait and switch where they do it and then it's paid off in a minute and there's still 20 minutes left and I'm like, "Okay, I I guess I got what I was I came for, you know?" So it wasn't really leaning into uh that why as much. And so for me, um, you know, I I I'm hyper sensitive to to viewers and I I I know how

it feels where like where are we going with this? You know, having that thought as a viewer and and so, you know, we we took an in-depth conversation on how do you how do you weave back into the story line without creating a new story line? Um, but it's reinforcing that story line. You know, how [clears throat] how do you do that? You know, I I know that, um, I I was really impressed because, um, you

know, uh, there was a lot going on that day, but once you showed me the video and, um, you know, you made that improvement, I'm like, okay, I felt like you got it. Um, >> yeah. and and once you were able to see the results, I feel like you had the confidence now to do something that you weren't doing before um which is being extremely vulnerable. Um you you weren't as you weren't as open as you

were in those videos and and then two um that that's where I think people could see your heart in the videos, >> but they didn't understand your why because you never let anybody into that. That was the first time that you you literally let people in to you as a person. Um and then and then those videos just popped off because they just like um and this I told you too is I says um I don't

know if you remember this but I'm like Mark it's not about the project. It's not about the project. Yeah. >> You know it's about your why. It literally is in your video. Why are you doing this? Why why is this happening? Um, and so for me, that's the that's what I love is the the passion and the why and and and and I think you have to be consistent with it. I don't think you can um

I I don't think you can just do it in every other video. I think it needs to be a consistent theme of where I I'm literally seeing the value in it and I I like that comment, oh, I just found you and I'm going to binge watch all your content, you know, where have you been my you know, >> I think you are absolutely right like that the one thing that you said and it it really

kind of bugged me because I didn't understand it when you said it. It's like when I click on your channel, what's it about? Like what am I getting from when I click on your channel? I was like >> landscaping. >> Yeah. Like like landscaping. But now it's when if if someone it's so magical because now everybody um what I've just dropped a video that I'm dropping tomorrow where I go back to my nana's favorite garden center

where she took me as a kid and I surprised an old lady. So and it was dead funny because she approached me. I was look I was on the phone to my friend saying I want to get 70 plants and then she come over to me and she said get them from Costco. They're cheaper. And it was just so funny because I was trying to get help ask people, you know, about the garden and she come

to try and help me. I said, "If you could have one nice thing in your garden, what would it be?" She went, "I've always wanted a pergola. I just can't afford one." I said, "I'll tell you what I'll come and build you one." And she went, "You are." And we filmed it and that for me that going out and surprising her and she just she the most beautiful old lady and and it all goes back to

time like the the whole video. You think it's about me going and surprising an old lady with a a dream perglar, but in actual fact, it's about time. Because if I could swap 10 days for one day with my nana, I'd swap it in a heartbeat. So, we're inviting the public to come and have tea with me in a garden center, but they've got to bring the grandparents. And if they've not got grandparents, they've got to

find someone else's. So, like, it's going to bring a nice community together. And when I made that video and the team said, "Well, you know, this might not do millions." And I went, "I don't care." Like, yeah, I'm I'm doing this for a reason. And what a lot of creators get kind of hellbent on is views. Like, I am blessed for every single person that clicked onto my video and watches it because I know when they

do, they're going to watch another video because I respect their 20 minutes of time. And a lot of creators will get, you know, this one's not done 200K or it's not done a million views. I think when you unlock your why, your personal why and why you creating content, that's when things start to change for you. >> Yep. And I and I think too it's like um and that that's what I respect. I think there's view

chasers, people that um will chase every view that they possibly can in in every scenario and then they get lost in that and then and then um they they become stagnant. And I think the the reason why it becomes stagnant uh is is because they lose their focus on on their why. And I I respect more creators that like say, "Oh, no, I can't. That's going to distract me. I can't, you know, that's not like it's

not about the views. is like I just I need to create this. They understand that value prop. Um and and then they stick to it. And I think too from from your perspective like there's several ways to do it, but it's like like there's meaning behind it. There's there's an essence behind it. Um and then two, it's portrayed now that you open yourself up and your audience is like they they they can't wait to see what

you're going to do next, you know? And I'll I'll disagree with um your your uh your team on that. If it's not going to be the best video of all time, it doesn't need to be. It's that it it was the perfect video for the moment that you were creating, right? Because like how serendipitous was that >> confirmation and and then what you're able to go and do? And then two, that story. And it it might

start late, but it it could out outright be one of your highest performing videos like like retention wise and everything else. And all YouTube's going to do is once it happens is find the audience for it. And it might not be the some of the people in your audience, which is fine, but if it's the majority that you're trying to develop, then they're going to be binge watching, you know, binge watching that content. >> Yeah. Well,

recently since so the Zoe video. >> Yeah. Yeah. What was that? >> The Zoe video that I did where we transformed the garden in three days for £10,000. my follower who unfortunately got breast cancer. When people approach me, they they say, "I love Zoe's video." That that video for me is my most well packaged video that I've ever put out, but it it didn't do well out of the gate. But that's fine for me because one,

it changed somebody's life and she's just the most beautiful lady inside and out. So for me, it was all about how she felt at the end of it. And if it doesn't find its audience, that's fine. But I I truly think it will. Like it's it was just such a good video. The garden was amazing. I went over I was meant to spend$10,000. I spent 23,000, but the brand paid me 10,000 to do it. I spent

my own money just to make it as good. Um but that that's okay. And and I think it will find it because I watch other videos and I'm a big big binger on YouTube long form. So I watch videos I think no my vid that video is really good. It's just not found its audience yet. >> Yeah. So, I want to I I want to focus in on this. I think um you transitioned um into the

long form properly, which you didn't stop shorts, which is great. You know, you're still >> Yeah. >> you have the great mix and and then two other platforms. You're getting noticed as well, and you know, they're they're discovering you um in that as well. Um, and and I want to I want to talk about that first original brand deals that you had coming on that was with shorts. >> Um, how did that transform now and where

you're at? Uh, specifically because like you're you're just not in the UK. I I've seen videos that you've done >> all over the world now. Um, and so what what does that actually look like for you? And then and then two, how does that um how does that change your perspective with with creating content? So I was at the start of my um shorts career. So I've done social media now for three years just over three

years and we started in 2023. Um done short form for two years and then we did we've done long form since last January. Most of my income was from brand deals for short form. So then I would package and say to brands, you know, if they were going to pay me 15,000, $20,000 for a short form video, I say, "Well, tell you what, I'll chuck you in a long form as well." Um, so we may made

most of our money from the short form content. Um, but like you said early on, um, when you create a short form, it's normally had its run in a couple of days, unless it goes like super mega viral. Um, so brand brands were getting this quick win from the shorts and then they were like, "Oh, we want more." So it's like a sugar fix. They just want more and more and more. Whereas the long form when

we we've done, for instance, we've worked with one brand who I love like they've been really loyal to me. Um, they've stretched the budget to help me and my team. Um, and they didn't really believe in long form until we've just done CAF's video when we surprised one of my followers with the dream driveway. It's on I think 1.3 million. Um, that was that company's biggest ever month in history in a month that wasn't meant to

be busy. So, I think they dropped that in February or March and it's a resin company and they were like, "Wow, we have just had a record month." And I said, "That is what long form can do for you." Um, now we've just now I class myself as a real tu YouTuber because we've done a revolute deal. So like now I'm like we are technically YouTubers now because we've done a revolute deal. So, we're we're getting

integrated ads now where we've never had them before. And they're just so kind of easy compared to like normally cuz when you do a short von um for people that have not done short deal brands, you go back and forth. You send them the video. Can you change this frame and it goes back and forth an integr an integrated ad, they tell you what to say, you say it, you send them to them, they give you

the thumbs up and it just goes in your video. It's there's just so they're a breath of fresh air to me because all I've ever done is short form brand deals. Um, but they only started coming in when once I've done a million views on long form. That's when an agent come to me and said, "Oh, I actually really love your videos." And it was the first agent that come to me that actually watches my videos.

Like loads of people say, "Yeah, yeah, oh, we love you." And like, "Cool, cool. Which video do you like?" And they go, "Well, well, I've just not I've not had time to watch it yet." And it's like, well, yeah, I'm okay, thank you. Um, but yeah, this this guy was was just brilliant. So then he rang me and said, look, I've got you five brand deals for YouTube long for like what? Like that's never happened before.

Um, but yeah, brand deals as a whole are tough because one, you never know what to charge. You don't know what to do. You don't know how many videos to do for the money you're going to get. There's no one really out there that gives you honest advice. Because when I had a million followers, they were like, "Okay, you're cool. you've got a million followers, but what's your English? What's your demographic split? And it's like, well,

I don't know. And so, you learn all these things as a creator, like understanding your data, understanding where your audience is. So, that because I'm self-taught and everything, you go through all these mistakes and you charge a brand £500 to make a video that should be £10,000 because you just don't know don't know what to charge. You're like, um, 500 quid. And they go, yeah, okay. Um, so you go through all them mistakes and you speak

to other creators and other people and like what you you should be charging this. So it was a very weird avenue to kind of go through. Um, because I had no network at the time. Um, and then once you get bigger and bigger and bigger, you you kind of outpric yourself for short form videos and you start working with big labeled companies who've got the money to be able to pay a creator that gets your views.

So, it it's been very tricky, but it I wouldn't I wouldn't be where I was without it. And so, I'm very grateful for every brand that I've ever worked with. >> That's great. And then what what are the things that you're looking at now, you know, as as a business person when it comes to YouTube? Like, how how has that transformed your business? And then where where do you see the next couple years of of what

you're >> So thanks to you, we're now looking at a business strategy for the for the business for the media marshall company. So like a lot of my audience want me to bring out a product. They want me to do something, but I'm just very I only want to bring something out if it's cool and it makes sense. And that's what you know when we was on our retreat in Utah that's one thing that you drilled

into us is like it's got to be something from maybe the heart something that really makes sense. So I've had a lot of thinking on that. So in the background we're working on a bringing a product out um something that my audience would love. Um but really my main focus now is I really just want to get a really really good video that like my style of content. I'm still figuring it out in regards like my

hooks, my my my peppering, my why. I'm slowly getting there. Um, but for me, that's the most important thing because the videos will feed the business. Um, but we're I'm always going to work with the brands that I've worked with from the start. And if and if that if that relationship splits apart, that's fine. Um, but we now for the first time ever, YouTube, the revenue of YouTube is sustainable to pay for my team. Whereas that's

never ever been the case before. I've always had to pay for brand deals to pay for the gardens to pay for the team. Whereas for the first time ever, you the YouTube money that we get every month is paying for my staff >> and a little bit gardens. >> So that's been amazing. >> Yeah. And I I I just say this, it's like um [clears throat] you know, making smart business decisions um and and start building

out uh alternative ways to bring in money, which you you do have that. you have brand deals and you have your ad revenue and and some affiliate stuff, but I I think at the end of the day, um you know, I I'm just passionate about having um another brand that you're developing coinciding with with your um way to market it, right? And it just needs to make sense to your audience. And so, you know, um I've

always coined the phrase, you know, be become your own brand deal. like why wouldn't you want to do that? Like if you're making all these these companies more money, why not make that for you, you know? And yeah, there's a lot of complexities and and some people lose sight of what their product really is, which is their videos, right? [laughter] >> They're trying to do too much or they're not bringing the right people in. But, you

know, there's there's a sense of um connection and belonging that comes through a good product. good product as a content the content for videos but also something that's adjacent that that could um you know um further uh further bring in revenue that you can do more with it right and so I I'm always a big proponent of that but realistically at the end of the day it's about community and you know that community is being developed

through your membership on YouTube but it also will be through products that you sell like the people love uh specific specific products. I mean, I look at uh one of the bestselling products of all time is the George Foreman grill. >> Um, and it it just it it like it made him billions of dollars, you know, on it. Uh, when you really break that down and and for me, you know, it was a really interesting celebrity

endorsement that he had equity in it and and and he did it right, you know, and so for me it was like there wasn't a lot of like it was a joke when it first came out. A lot of people like, "Oh, George Foreman, what's he doing now?" >> Uh, but now they're like, "Oh, George Foreman, look what he did." You know, because they don't get it. And I think we're at that at that age where

uh brands are coming on, they're they're paying more money, and then two, smarter creators are are laterally aligning them with the brand, whether they're getting doing equity plays in a in a company that they're helping promote um and or, you know, getting their own products that that are out there. And I think that's literally um the the most important aspect of building an empire is understanding that you're hitting the audience where they're at, which you are.

It's all social media, short form content, now long form. >> And then um offering a way for them to go deeper, which you are, uh through your membership, and then through some app stuff as well. And then two, having products that they can love, you know, that that that really represent your brand well. So >> for me when when you mentioned in in Janu um maybe January, yeah, when when we was talking about like having your

own product, I was like, I just want to focus on videos. I really want to bring a product out. And then we met in Utah and Tristan was like, "No, you really should you should not upset Daryl. You should think about a product." And I was like, "Okay." Okay. And then and then sitting [clears throat] with my my wife and talking, she said, "When you went first went to America, what was the first thing that you

did?" And I went, "I went and bought 20 packets of Joyide." She went, "Why?" I went, "Because I love Ryan." >> Yeah. I said, "Cuz I love Ryan Trey." She went, "So why would people not do the same for you?" And I went, "No, yeah, absolutely. You've got a point. But then I care about my audience so much that I wouldn't want to just put my name on anything. I'd want it to be something that's pretty

cool. So, we are working on some things. >> That's your that's your assignment, right? Like you can't just slap slap a logo on it and expect it to be there, right? But if it's something that you love and you're passionate about, it'll be an easy easy sell, easy integration. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, yeah, we are working on that. Yeah. >> Love it. Well, Mark, I really just appreciate you jumping on. I know that you're you're

super busy with everything. Uh, is there any last bit of advice that you want to give to the viewer right now? Um, you know, the people that have been on and struggling or plateaued like what what would you recommend to them? >> Take a deep breath and keep going. Like things things always never never put things in your own ad. Speak to other creators. Go to VidSummit if if you're not already going. Um, I found every

meetup um that we go to, you take a lot of it out of meeting other creators. So, I would definitely go just just breathe and just think, no, you can do it. Like, I'm nowhere near probably some of the level that people are maybe watching this, but you just got to give it everything. Everything you've got and a little bit more. >> Yeah. Yeah. For those that are interested, in VidSummit is coming up uh September 29th

to October 1st in Dallas, Texas. Uh it is going to be phenomenal this year. Like I I'm really excited uh just because the the level of speakers that we have coming in. Uh we're just barely getting ready to announce uh these speakers. You definitely want to go grab your ticket before the prices go up because as we're announcing, that's when we start uh raising the prices on that. Um, but uh you know, we've done this long

enough where we're trying to find the right type of uh content to really help you um grow your your your companies and media strategies. But I think Mark hit it the best. Like we want to just create an environment where you're surrounded by your people, right? And we're not talking to your fans. >> We're talking about people that are doing exactly like what you're doing. Um and and they get it. So, uh head on over to

vidsummit.com. Get your ticket now. You won't regret it. It's going to be the best VidSummit ever. And Mark, thank you so much for jumping on and we'll see you all on the next one. Thanks everybody.