The Boys Finale Review - Did They Stick the Landing?

[00:05] going to be talking about The Boys finale. So, I warn you right now, big spoilers are ahead for the ending of The Boys. We're not going to hold anything beginning we'll just at first say what we thought of it, but I we're going to

[00:18] of special guests joining us. At first, a little bit of housekeeping. Our first watch party live stream is tonight. We're going to watch the X-Men. X-Men 1 from the year 2000 is going to be on here at 8:00. So, we're not actually

[00:32] is we're going to play it on our own computers or systems. You do the same all just going to talk and comment and enjoy the movie that we've been watching for almost the past 30 years. That is tonight, 8:00 p.m. EST. Be there, be

[00:46] Normally, those live streams are just going to be for members, but we're going we have new membership tiers up on the store right now, but we'll talk about I'm excited to talk to you guys about this finale. We have a poll running

[00:59] right now. Give us comments, give us super chats if you want. They're always encouraged, but not required. The poll is actually 51% loved it and only right is actually 51% loved it and only right now 6% hated it with 43% saying, "I have

[01:11] far more nuanced opinions," which I really think it's nice to know that in this age of internet people being so mean to each other that there's a lot of there's something I'll talk about later. There's one aspect of this finale that

[01:24] in hindsight I really don't like and I think completely undermines the theme of this series. So, let me get straight to our guest today. Our first guest up, you know him as the man who was always on break, Mr. Tommy Bextole. What's up,

[01:38] Tommy? >> Ryan, is it 1999? >> Ryan, is it 1999? Is Backstreet Boys and NSYNC exploding on the brain and I'm getting ready to watch X-Men tonight.

[01:51] Tommy's going to be with us tonight. We're still solidifying the lineup and I know Tommy and Michael both be there. It's always 1999 in my brain, baby. I've never adjusted to the 2000s. I am still wearing baggy jeans. I have frosted tips

[02:05] in the back of my head, nature's frosting on the sides, you know. >> You made me donate to a GoFundMe for your Tamagotchi that was ill, which was >> Absolutely, yeah. And of course, we're always contributing money to landmine

[02:17] research in honor of Princess Diana. And next up, you know him as Doug's [laughter] attorney, Mr. Mike Micella. What's up, Mike? >> Hey guys, really interesting finale here. I think it was a really creative

[02:30] choice to have Homelander and Sage and the Deep just all just sitting in that diner. And then, of course, we hear a bell and a door opens and then it just cuts to black and we have no idea what happens.

[02:45] One of the most creative endings to a series that I've ever seen. the year 1999, I don't know what you're talking about. And can I just say I'm We're we're on every podcast platform, so maybe you can't see what Mike's

[02:59] wearing right now. Dude, I am digging the like Balki Bartokamos look with your showing. >> You like my You like my outfit? Do you great. >> I was very inspired to do a little

[03:13] >> Got you, got you. See >> Spoiler alert, all right, B Kevin. I did call it. I knew he was dead. >> I didn't see your gauntlets. couldn't see your gauntlets. >> dynamics. This is so dynamic. Swift.

[03:28] >> I thought you were just rolling up here dressed like a Bosnian bouncer with your awesome. >> This is uh this is not a costume, this >> [laughter] >> Um yeah, no, guys, really my legitimate

[03:43] know that people have mixed feelings about it, but like I said to you before plane here. Um, I have more nuanced thoughts as we get into it, but >> Oh, as does 49% of the people in our

[03:56] chat right now. But before we get into the nuanced thoughts, 1 second. We got one more guy to bring on. You know him as the man, you know him from our ScreenCrush. He's got his fingers in many pies. Take that however you want,

[04:08] Mr. Ethan Eng. What's going on, my friend? >> [laughter] >> Maybe maybe that's your new nickname. Maybe your nickname is always his other hand is in a pie. Here we go, Ethan.

[04:24] >> Glad to be here. Glad to talk to the boys. Oh my god, what a what a finale. I I I voted on the nuanced side of that. I I kind of came from the finale feeling a little

[04:38] less than positive, but I think that'll be really interesting to get into uh is going to join us. He's just not here yet. So, he's actually working on our We're going to explain videos already. Right now,

[04:53] So, we're just going to wait here patiently for him and not talk. All thoughts on it. Like you said, we're going to get into more nuance. Uh Tommy, I haven't really heard from you though what you thought of this episode.

[05:06] >> I I loved parts of it. I am still trying to get kind of gather my overall opinion of it. I think you know, I thought that they could have taken some bigger swings

[05:22] with some uh some things wrapped up. And that would have probably made it even more polarizing. So, as an entire landing of a show, I agree. Uh I thought did think it was interesting. I thought I thought like the Deep's like

[05:38] in terms of conclusions for characters, the Deep's was great. I thought Sister Sage's was great. Like kind of almost like a Twilight Zone episode where like she only can have peace by like losing everything that made her

[05:51] >> so special. I think there's something poetic about that. What I thought a little Some of it was on the nose. I'm sure we'll get deeper into it, but like, and Starlight's kind of like her happily ever after was a little too almost

[06:04] And I think it's probably because they're not done. >> I literally screamed at the TV, "Don't step off the curb. Don't >> When he said Robin, I only kind of half [clears throat] caught that he said,

[06:16] second I thought he accidentally called her Robin and that's how the series was talking to the unborn child. All right, let's go through this though. I I got an and what you guys thought. Tommy, you've

[06:29] yours, but let's just go through these one at a time. And let's start with probably Let's go from least impactful to the most impactful. Let's start with the Gen V kids. Why were they in the show?

[06:42] >> Oh, man. I I don't know who If they're I don't know if blame is the right word, but it definitely feels like Gen V as a show set itself up for failure there and and being like, "Oh, this is so important to The Boys universe." And

[06:56] it's like, "I don't even know if Eric Kripke Kripke or the writers of season 5 wanted to use the the Gen V cast." Cuz it felt like, you know, the way they were written off I thought was pretty well done, but it

[07:09] that sucks that they had to be written off. And that that is kind of my main problem with the finale. I have the same problem with Sage, but we'll get into that. But for the Gen V characters, they're they're like my hope of the

[07:22] future of this franchise going forward. I just I'm crossing my spin-off for them. >> Well, yeah, I would to to add to that, >> Well, yeah, I would to to add to that, Ethan, I To me, I took that as the way

[07:35] the show kind of wrapped up, the way that Gen V was canceled, I feel like, you know, it'll probably be a year or two until we get the announcement, but with the prequel show coming out, you know, I

[07:49] feel like they they they maybe consolidated things a little bit. Like they're like, "Well, we have We still have pieces on the board that are alive and what Like we didn't get rid of all the superheroes." So, I feel like maybe

[08:02] they were like, "Rather than continuing to do episode or seasons of Gen V, we'll just have a spin-off with who's left that, you know, makes sense to be in the show." And therefore, they kind of sidelined the Gen V Well, they

[08:15] these last three episodes, you know, where they're like bringing them in and "Why did you Like they I think they don't they even ask like, 'Why are we yeah, yeah. I don't know.

[08:29] being disappointed. Sorry. >> Yeah. I guess Kripke, I would guess, were like, "Yeah, you got to include these characters." They really didn't is. There was nothing for her to do with her now.

[08:42] he was really upset about the least him I don't know I I don't remember off the top of my head like who's on the writing team for Gen V, but at least him as like the Kevin Feige of

[08:54] at least him as like the Kevin Feige of the VCU, he was really He really liked the Gen V cast. I don't know. Unfortunately, that show's also marred by the death of Chance Perdomo. I think there was a lot of I think Gen V not

[09:07] getting a season 3 is like a result of a lot of different issues, right? But I love that cast. I think I think that story was so interesting. Like seeing these kids grow up in this world. >> It felt like maybe they got the news

[09:21] that Gen V wasn't going to get renewed for season 3 earlier than everybody let's like really give these characters and these actors the send-off that they deserve by at least acknowledging them and putting them into the finale." Cuz

[09:35] the dialogue and everything in that they have in this final episode doesn't seem like it's setting up for Gen V season 3. Like they still thought at that time to be a season 3 of Gen V. Um

[09:48] I I think that they were like criminally underused. I really liked the Gen V show. I think that it had a lot of potential and Kripke, I believe I read, that like season 3 was going to be Marie Moreau's kind of like Yoda training

[10:02] season where she was going to really develop her powers and really reach that able to do. What she would have been doing or who she would have been going after, who knows because we know that obviously Homelander died in this

[10:16] season, but Vought's still around. Maybe Maybe she would have gotten recruited for that CIA thing that um the president was trying to get Hughie for at the end. >> That's what I said at the uh the end of uh in our ending explained video. I kind

[10:30] working on a uh what's next video which might talk about that too, but I don't know yet because our next guest hasn't even written that video yet. We have you TV but doesn't know him, Mr. Colton Ausburn. What's up, Colton?

[10:43] >> Uh >> Gave our general very kind of quick TLDR impressions on uh the show. We spent a lot of time making fun of you and doing our impressions of you. And then >> Deep's fins on, but those were just for

[10:57] the people who got here on time. So >> And I thought the Deep fins I thought he was just dressed like a bouncer with a deep V cut and I insulted him and didn't caught up. >> Oh my god, you think I'm tall?

[11:09] guys are forgetting to tell them I wore a full Rock Bottom costume and shot >> right? Yeah. >> Ryan had a trench coat on. He was saying >> Yeah. Isn't that his name, Rock Bottom? I don't even know.

[11:24] finished talking about Gen V, but what first of all, what were your just thoughts overall on the finale? >> Oh, I loved it, man. I I've given like channel and I'm I'm getting a lot of Oh, he's glazing it. Okay, fine. Yeah, I I

[11:39] loved it. I understand why some people may be disappointed that it wasn't honestly what they kind of advertised it to be, which was this scorched earth Homelander floating above Earth, nukes going off, Butcher and on the White

[11:54] >> boring. That sounds like everything people hated about the Netflix finale. >> Yeah, I hate that idea. >> You mean the Stranger Things finale? Things. >> Yeah, it

[12:08] I feel like this show was so meta. And I think it was super meta that they And I think it was super meta that they didn't do the traditional Oh, that this finale is just 45 minutes of CGI buildings blowing up and destruction. I

[12:22] I liked the intimate nature of it. And And don't get me wrong, I I get it. I get that all series long we've been building towards seeing Homelander just go ape [ __ ] but to play devil's advocate,

[12:35] I think the whole point is that we learn that Homelander is nothing. He's nothing. We call his bluff. This series finale, in a meta way, calls the bluff of Homelander. He's not cool. He's not badass. He's not God. So, we didn't need

[12:52] to see even like this big fight take place on the White House lawn or the White House blow up and all that. The fact that it just took place right there in the Oval Office, dude couldn't even get out of the Oval Office to have like

[13:04] or something. >> We predicted so much of this on our talk about this and predicting what was going to happen in the finale. You guys live broadcast, like the people have to see it live with their own eyes. And I

[13:19] was like, I don't know. I think a lot of people are still not going to But that great scene where you saw on the iPads in real time their minds changing. >> Yeah. Which was really cool that they

[13:31] audience. >> And it was also taken directly from the comic book. They just condensed like the last issue with Homelander. He dies the show. And then they condensed the last arc where Butcher goes after the

[13:44] episode his confrontation with Huey. >> I think they really hurt themselves with the posters. Like why did they put out a poster for the finale that is Homelander army of supes behind him and Butcher walking the White House lawn with a

[13:59] >> Yeah. >> Yeah, but >> I I didn't I I didn't pay attention to any of that. I had no expectations going >> Right. And I feel like a lot of the critiques are coming as critiques tend

[14:14] expectation. Like oh, this poster was out so I thought this. If we were judging it purely just on the finale, I loved it. I loved the intimate nature of it. I loved how small it felt. And I can get how like oh, it feels like this

[14:28] feels like a TV show. It is a TV show in its like small intimate nature. about the Butcher versus Homelander scene as if it's like the end of the of it. But I feel like the whole point of that feeling so small

[14:45] was to show just how small Homelander is. Maybe I'm giving the the creators and the writers too much credit there, but I I really do think that just how pathetic and easy he was to honestly bring down right there at the end. I

[14:58] think that's meant to say yeah, he was always just you know, full of it. He >> I [snorts] I agree Coltyn and I think it was it's been alluded to almost from the has all these like little mini breakdowns where like he's like alone in

[15:12] his office or slash apartment like kind of like losing it over like the feeling of his feelings being hurt. Like he constantly has his feelings hurt and he constantly usually in his own private you know, Mhm.

[15:39] straight to I'll suck your dick. Like there was no lead up to that. Yeah. >> Guys, that was crazy. Like, what? >> It's insane the amount of time I spend in the breakdown breaking down Butcher's

[15:53] [laughter] to do that. Because it's so just you see on Butcher's face Butcher like realizing he's just like, holy You give a little tease and it's just what Homelander did in that scene.

[16:08] But like you can see it on his face. Butcher's like, I have spent the better part of a decade chasing an empty nothing man-child who probably can't doesn't hate me because he's not even capable of hating me. He's so just

[16:22] >> And [snorts] this is exactly what Hughie told him before, right? Hughie faced episode and basically said, "Oh, I see you're nothing. Like there's nothing behind you. You're a guy like me." Yeah. Yeah. And then this this final

[16:35] fight, by the way, is a basically a reconfiguration of the fight at the end of season 3, which was a really poorly done, I thought, small-scale battle. It knocking around filing cabinets. I thought this version was done a lot

[16:48] I mean, you had Ryan in both fights and this time he stepped in. You had somebody who could take away Homelander's power and, you know, >> the fight they had at Herogasm when they're both holding him down. Remember

[17:00] Hughie is on one side and Butcher's on the other and they're trying to get Soldier Boy to blast him and then he just like goes straight up going to do that again and I don't know why he didn't.

[17:12] >> He's stronger this time. I mean >> I loved watching him try to Tommy, you have been more. Like the amount of times we see Homelander trying to bolt out of >> Yeah. >> And

[17:26] >> You mean before he gets depowered? >> Yeah, before he gets depowered. Oh, >> Oh, and the way he jumps the little bunny hop. >> It was so great. >> I'm seeing so many people complain that

[17:40] they expected a like kind of like at the end of Daredevil season 3 when Matt beats the hell out of Kingpin and Fisk is like "I will never stop haunting

[17:52] Karen Page and Foggy Nelson." Like he's basically begging Daredevil to kill him. That's what they wanted out of Homelander here. >> And I'm telling you that would have been so out of character for Homelander. Like

[18:05] I'm seeing people say the the other way around. Like, "Oh, they they took away his attitude? Why didn't that take away the cockiness?" Because that the powers the whole thing. The there was only one way for

[18:19] had been "William, just do You know, anything like that. That's not Homelander. That's not who he >> If if he if he tried to put on a tough face and then like Butcher like wound up

[18:33] have been really funny. [laughter] >> Well, and I think I'm sorry, Colin. But to your to your point about the metaness of it all, it's like we see how ridiculous these actors have to perform when they're pretending to take flight

[18:46] >> [laughter] >> making like the magical whatever energy. [laughter] this to like shoot the lasers and nothing comes out. And it's like, like

[19:00] >> You know what it looked like? Do you guys remember like old Mad TV back in the day, those sketches with Mo Collins and I think Michael McDonald? >> Stewart, yes. >> Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can do.

[19:14] like dude this guy also has no strength at all he hopped so short because he's never used real muscle in his life it's always [clears throat] just been his powers so he is like scrawny and weak.

[19:28] >> Well and I'm that's why I'm so glad that he's not so huge like he is in the comics cuz Homelander's big dude in the comics but he's not in the show and like his suit is like so obviously like padding so yeah I really like that.

[19:40] saying Anthony Starr is not a big guy they could have done that they could have taken away his padding after he loses his powers too and had him size. Like a normal size >> Like a red sun Superman like just

[19:54] >> All right so okay then. >> I was going to say just it we did get that slight second of him trying to say you can't do this you can't >> [laughter] >> I am the Homelander and push yourself.

[20:07] >> you get your you got your check from Amazon right for >> I haven't yet I haven't yet. >> Oh shoot yeah it's cuz it's cuz you won't do direct deposit no Ethan and and I and Tommy like we all we

[20:21] we've got ours like weeks ago so >> I got a I got a free trip on New Origin I get to go on the rocket next one. >> a free oh you did oh shoot like that's the money. >> I just got a bunch of

[20:34] Amazon pillows filled with heroin. >> Oh wait I just got an email >> [snorts] >> Guys I got a free year of Amazon Prime. >> [laughter] >> Is it the video or the delivery service

[20:47] >> Both both totally worth it. >> And all of that stuff was from the guy the one with the dog to say nice things on his personal Twitter account to earn >> I just got an email too I just got a free year of Prime energy drink it's

[21:03] from it's an email from Logan Paul and it says Homelander was right about everything. Oh my god, Logan, come >> say that. He would say that. characters and talk about their endings. Before I do, I want to acknowledge a

[21:16] couple super chats from Mr. Sinister, uh four bucks total. He says, "Oi, Colton's asked, "Any OG cast members in the spin-off or Ryan's powers gone?" Yes, >> No. >> OG characters? I think Queen Maeve Queen

[21:30] >> I I do not think I don't think Ryan's powers are gone. I don't think they are. about >> they are. About his powers. Who said >> Butcher. Butcher when he's talking to Ryan afterwards says, "Oi, mate, neither

[21:43] >> That's an assumption. >> Right. I remember I immediately like asked myself like Well, but then Ryan says like no like thinking to myself, "Okay, dude, but you're like 16 and you don't have

[21:58] going to be homeless?" And then he gets adopted by MM, which is beautiful. It's >> Oh, Zicky adopted him. That makes sense. Okay. >> Wait, that wasn't a wedding? >> No, I I 100% think he still has his

[22:13] powers and he's keeping it to himself. Cuz it we never see anything that like indicate he does still have his powers assumes, "Oh, I lost my powers. Homelander lost his powers. You lost

[22:26] your powers." But we have to remember, their powers are through actual compound V injection. Ryan is the first natural-born supe. And the way that the V is in his blood Ethan, was it you or Elias that said, I believe in the chat

[22:40] the great point, I think it might have been Elias, that compound V, that's an injection that can be burned out of the blood. Ryan, as a natural-born supe, I think would naturally produce whatever

[22:55] >> It's like Ellie in The Last of Us kind of thing, yeah. >> Would it That But that's the question is like would his body produce natural compound V? We're not sure of that, right? I mean like

[23:08] >> fact that he's a teenager and all of our other points of reference are like >> There's also we I thought guys I thought Maverick was translucent son and has the he was a kid or >> Actually that that's a good point.

[23:22] >> dad has polarity too, right? Polarity and his son have the same powers. Maybe there is something tied to genetics that indicates what type of power you'll get. only one. >> There was a while in the early seasons

[23:35] something about them being kids and Ryan you said like I thought all the supes have kids. >> Yeah, I thought they were too but point about Maverick. Why do they go on and on about Ryan being the first

[23:50] don't >> Cuz he got the polarity. He was given V. >> Okay so wait wait. I think I think I got a way to settle this. You ready? Okay. Supe has a kid. Their kid has their genetic makeup. We don't know exactly

[24:04] which supes will get which powers. When they get V they get the same powers >> like your your genetics that are passed down from your parents are what in some way determines what type of power is unlocked by Gen V.

[24:17] If you're a supe and you have a kid your kid is born a normal human baby >> strong likelihood they get the same power. Hughie and his dad both had teleportation powers. Same thing.

[24:30] But that's Hughie and his once. Too many people talking at once. >> Homelander is like Soldier Boy but he can fly. Who else can fly? >> I still don't understand why they said

[24:43] if >> Well I don't know. Let's get let's let's so. >> Maverick was born a human baby and then >> Yeah. >> And also Mike just made a good point. He

[24:56] said, "If Soldier Boy couldn't fly, but Homelander can, maybe that means his mom >> another thing that I'm I'm looking at. >> 100% is Stormfront. >> reveal it. >> Yes, and she's alive.

[25:09] >> She's alive. You don't write in You don't write in Soldier Boy saying, "Bullshit. Did you see her body?" That's That is writer speak. Yeah, she's alive. >> There's a spin-off series where maybe the Bureau of Super

[25:23] >> but is she depowered? Cuz she got blasted by Ryan. Does he >> No, that was like >> No, he doesn't because that comes from on from >> And I want to talk about that experiment

[25:36] later cuz I have some issues with it. >> All right, let's keep moving here. I I love I love the idea here that Stormfront's alive, and if she is, maybe she factors into the spin-off show where she's the villain from the Bureau of

[25:49] think would be cool. I love Jim Beaver. I'm glad he's back in the White House. satisfying for everybody? >> Yes. but yes. Happy MM is happy.

[26:02] >> Did he move on from his rage against Soldier Boy? like put him to sleep the first time. Like when he puts the gas mask on him, grandfather and whatever." So like, I guess he kind of already had that moment

[26:15] in season 3. >> His love for his family is just bigger cuz like remember when Soldier Boy first resurfaced, like it took a whole like like a scene of Butcher convincing him to come back out into the fight, even

[26:27] though he hates Soldier Boy. Like that is definitely a a feud. He would just not do what Butcher did with Homelander. >> I think that he thinks he's closed the book on Soldier Boy, but with them setting up Ryan being with MM and

[26:41] setting up Ryan having a disdain for Soldier Boy. We know MM has a disdain for Soldier Boy. We know Soldier Boy is on ice at Vought. We know they're doing Vought Rising, which is going to explore Soldier Boy and Clara. I could see like

[26:54] a season two of Vought Rising taking place post Boys season 5 and seeing Ryan and MM brought back into the fight cuz they need to go up against Soldier Boy >> And Soldier Boy >> they do a parallel storyline.

[27:08] >> and forth. Yeah. >> Yeah. What Mike? see Stormfront and Soldier Boy have that reunion after obviously this would come have the [snorts] context of the whole backstory of their relationship as well.

[27:23] >> Oh, yeah. I didn't think about that. That I just assumed the spin-off would come out concurrent to Vought Rising. >> I think especially with what they set up with Stan Edgar at the end and Vought still being the main villain of this

[27:37] this universe. I I really could see Vought Rising not just being a period into like a continuation of the story from The Boys. the next character Sister Sage. >> Um

[27:51] I in the ending explained video I kind of theorized that at this point maybe superheroes, right? Maybe that that's not a just a meta line that Butcher all these supes with powers, what do they do? I think a lot of them might

[28:06] actually just turn to flat-out crime, which I assume would be the next iteration of the show and the next theme of it is like I you know, I don't know. This this show is about pop culture and politics. So what else is there to say?

[28:19] Are we talking about world politics? So what would the theme be of the the show? >> What did Edgar mean when he said or not Bob President Singer. What did he mean when he said

[28:33] uh the the something at Vought they're they're running wild. They're Is he just referring to Okay, so yeah, like rogue supes? >> I guess you know, Vought probably doesn't have a good handle on things and

[28:45] um Homelander was asked the seven didn't himself. So a lot of soups are probably there is no like it was believable that a character like Starlight existed where she didn't know

[29:01] that soups were [ __ ] up. There is no lid on that anymore. Anybody with they know what their purpose was. They know that Homelander basically ruined them. >> And they've had a serious reality check

[29:17] having seen on live TV Homelander, the most powerful of them all, being open. So >> Right. >> I I think, you know, in the end it it appears though with

[29:29] becoming in charge of Vought again, it kind of proves Butcher's point to Hughie that like just because Homelander's gone, that our problem isn't solved. And I do think that like with the kind of cynical nature of The Boys, America

[29:44] loves a comeback story and like there's going to be Vought will recover because they'll use all sorts of misinformation and and manipulative advertising to win back the hearts and minds of people and be like, "No, we've got the We

[29:58] Homelander became bigger than Vought and decided he doesn't reflect Vought's values." And they'll be able to bring in a new Seven Seven. And they'll And I think that that will be what the new

[30:11] >> It's like >> Tommy, that reminds me Dawn of the Seven reminds me that at our merch store, we have a 50% off sale all of our boys Dawn of the Seven shirt. And I just want to say that one of my favorite aspects

[30:24] consumerism. And if there's one thing I believe in in this world is that you can from our merch store with shirts like the Girls Get It Done. Of course, we have the God U shirt. This is one of my favorites, Billy Butcher hunting

[30:37] appearance of The Punisher. This is one of my all-time favorites. We have the Laser Baby Diabolical Nirvana parody. We have the Soldier Boy the Musical, like Steve Rogers the Musical. Soldier Boy punching Hitler, who wouldn't want to

[30:51] wear that on their chest? And many, many more. So, again, if you want to truly our link below. 15% off with an additional 15% off if you're at the $5 tier of our merch store. Join us in our glorious consumerist future. Shall we

[31:06] talk about Sister Sage, guys? What do we think about her? >> Mhm. I think I I I put this on my notes, but I think Sage is the one of the only one of the characters that is the most likely to pop back up. Like like as a

[31:20] depowered person, I think you could explore maybe like an avenue where the Soldier Boy and Kimiko like power blasting is not as effective because I think Sage was an interesting super smart character,

[31:34] right? Because she craved all that peace and that that like leave me alone, I only craved that when she was super smart. So, what does it feel like when anymore? Will she want it back? Will she take Compound V again? Or is her power

[31:50] >> Oh, yeah. I can see her being an interesting character or she's just dumb forever, >> I hope not. Mike, I hope Mike, I hope she's dumb forever. I think that would

[32:02] >> don't hope that cuz I think that is a happy I don't want her to have a happy ending. She is an evil character, guys. She was planning a mass genocide. You because of her? Why are we letting

[32:16] Sister Sage off the hook here? What did she even really do to help? >> Why are we >> She was instrumental in Homelander getting his hands on the Compound V because she was so arrogant. Guys, she's

[32:29] died. >> BUT SHE WAS GOOD AS A CHARACTER. I mean, watching her play. She's a very interesting and compelling character, >> wonderfully like >> She is the only reason they were able to

[32:42] kill Homelander though. If not for her I really like the idea turning Kimiko into the thing, but we'll talk about it when we get to her cuz I think that was just very ham-fisted, but >> I like the idea of when we see Sage

[32:57] again and her living her like in her ignorant bliss, I like the idea of her smarts like slowly coming back and she realizes it and that terrifies her one because her peace is about to go away, but two that means that any that you

[33:13] know what Kimiko did, it doesn't work. And that gives us a lot of implications like had Butcher like had Butcher not killed Homelander in that moment and have come back. So that's big. We could

[33:25] kind of like the the X-Men 3 thing that >> You see Sister Sage go through a reverse >> She's slowly [laughter] becoming smarter. >> I love that the Sage. We we spec we we had so much speculation on Sage and what

[33:39] >> Yeah. >> There was time now. She just married us, >> God. >> There was time now. >> No, no, no. >> Tommy, I just I downloaded that image so

[33:52] >> Well, that that but that is how I felt that I I I feel, you know, yeah, she's a bad person this fictional character, but what an incredible punishment like to have to go from all of this knowledge to like being blissfully ignorant. And I

[34:06] guess punishment in terms of like as a viewer watching it, you're like, oh, like, you know, she maybe she will be she doesn't have quite an understanding, punishment if there wasn't a comic book source material, I would have loved that

[34:20] punishment for Homelander. If he just became just a guy. Like I think this is obviously it's very satisfying to kill this like genocidal maniac, but like if he had to like stand trial as just a guy, that also I mean that that would

[34:33] have been very satisfying to watch as a viewer. I think like, you know, in terms of like getting their comeuppance. Sister Sage Sister Sage walking away kind of like, "I'm so happy to be dumb now." and then I love Colter's idea for

[34:46] intelligence. To me it was satisfying. I didn't mind it. >> And then like she could need to like track down Kimiko and like figure oh thought. There's so much you could do there.

[34:59] >> I I guess it is very fitting and like thematic for the show to be like, "Hey, all the people that helped Homelander get away with all of this [ __ ] for so They're all fine." >> Yeah. Well, except for the Deep. So,

[35:11] let's get let's move on to him next. I I mean there's if there's one death in the series I think you could have called very easily this season, it was the way he died. It was Scar in The Lion King, right? Like it just made total sense

[35:23] how they brought it full circle to the first episode with Starlight. And a lot circle like we talk about with Hughie and and Starlight. send? >> I liked how Annie knew to take him to

[35:36] the beach. Like because in any other situation she would have known that near the water, but she somehow knew that he was now hated by the fish community and that it if she needed to she could just blast him right into that

[35:49] that was a nice touch. >> Oh, you thought that was on purpose? >> she thought it was on purpose. >> I thought she was like, "I'm going to bring you to your home turf. I'm going to give you a like a field spell card

[36:02] your ass." >> I I don't even know if it was on purpose. It was it was definitely like a writer contrivance and I was kind of like, "Why why take him there?" >> I think it was just to show him like you

[36:14] beat your ass right next to the ocean. >> Did anyone else have the feeling when you're watching the finale and Butcher comes in even in something I can't say on live stream, daddy some, and then like the fight between them

[36:28] starts, and then they cut to Deep and Starlight fighting on the beach. That >> [laughter] >> Yeah, yeah. >> Like, I think they did their fight a disservice by not having it be in the

[36:41] the big fight of the penultimate because I just did not care. Every time they cut to them, I was like, "Get out of here." >> of the structural reason, I liked it because it it otherwise it would have been like, "Well, Starlight would have

[36:55] against Homelander or against another supe." No matter what, you had to remove some people from the board because it was a personal fight between Butcher and true, but I love the way Allfather went out. Mike, what was it you said about

[37:09] >> I called it. I said that Hughie was going to kill him. I think I said cuz I somebody. So, I was like, "Hughie kills Allfather, Starlight kills the Deep. I Homelander." I called pretty much a lot

[37:22] No, Hughie was there. >> He was there, but he wasn't he wasn't he >> He was there, but he wasn't he wasn't he didn't do the killing. >> It was a team effort. >> [laughter]

[37:35] >> YEAH, MM KILLED ALLFATHER. >> WELL, HUGHIE'S IMPRESSION LED HIM AWAY. >> The What a great impression of uh >> Yeah, but it was him and then Like >> And I loved the save MM in the last

[37:47] episode. >> When Hughie and MM entered the room, you see MM see the ball gag, but they don't show the ball gag. You just have MM go, >> And what character development for MM to

[38:00] >> Yeah, that's true. >> Very true. Very He's come a long [laughter] way with his OCD treatment. >> He literally overcame his OCD in that big deal. >> One last thing I want to say about the

[38:13] Deep. I do think like, you know, yeah, that character definitely deserved the death, but I did think like now that you took away his ability to communicate to thought the Deep was poised as a a

[38:25] like into other spin-offs where he's like the useless and nobody likes him. He keeps trying to like appear on commercials and [ __ ] and nobody's buying it. Um I keep thinking about in Agatha All Along Ralph Bohner shows up but he's

[38:39] like got a beard and he's like a conspiracy theorist. I wanted that route for the Deep where he's like I'm still a part of the Seven. It's like dude the >> You know uh I was Homelander's right-hand man.

[38:52] Like it's like >> [laughter] >> Oh that would have been hilarious. >> The ultimate meta move which I wouldn't >> Aw I love come on. >> I'm from Ohio. It's

[39:07] Imagine if he'd got sent to New Jersey. That would have been punishment. >> No the punishment for the Deep is to spend his life appearing at Comic-Cons and not the big one in San Diego the ones that are in like Fresno Fresno

[39:21] ones that are in like Fresno Fresno Comic-Con. Okay now we've got a couple uh super got to bust through these characters. The Guild of Calamitous Intent gave us

[39:36] one of my favorite screen names by the way gave us $5. Shout out to Ethan for his awesome writing all season long. Um but Ethan we all know who the real brains behind the operation is. The guy who's got his other hand in a pie.

[39:49] Jaguera gave us five bucks and said are we doing more comic book Boys parody finale we could definitely think of some. Or some crowbar involving ones we might do. And Filaramba from down under long

[40:02] Australian dollars said pats for Doug. Kevin's end should have been more drawn was great and not satisfying enough. It was too quick. And I do need to check and see I think Phil you might be one of our $100 tier members. If you are thank

[40:16] tier members we have, we got to set aside our time to do our live Q&A live stream on Zoom or something. And if you >> I'll remind you that Doug's contract stipulates that those pacts must be delivered within at least five business

[40:29] need that in writing. >> As Doug's attorney we appreciate that. us another $10 and said if Homelander had lived and went to trial, his gathering to support him while wearing t-shirts that said never surrender with

[40:43] >> many real life parallel at all. >> You talk about the Elon Musk parody in >> Oh, the little jump? You think that was an Elon Musk parody? like doing the >> Oh, yeah.

[40:55] >> [laughter] >> Yeah. that when Deep had gone to the White House and I mentioned this in the breakdown, I I think that he should have pitched himself as a new hero and been

[41:07] like, Homelander, I I could be like a a space biker in the rebooted universe or something. >> [laughter] time, so don't want to rush, but just bear that

[41:22] in mind. Kimiko. >> Okay, so here's my feeling on why I did not like them doing this. They said, "We're going to try and Soldier Boy his powers." That's what happened to him in the '80s when he was

[41:35] kidnapped by the Russians, right? They were experimenting on him. Now, they had had the research and everything, but the equipment that they were using was just the the nuclear radiation from the facility in the United States where they

[41:49] went where they were looking for V1, right? And what Soldier Boy said was they used to test this on us just to see how strong we were. That's Vought. Vought used that to test their like resistance to radiation.

[42:04] And then they just used that and were like, "Yeah, well, some combination of that and the notes from Russia and Sister Sage, Yeah, why not? Kimiko can do the same thing. It just seemed very like

[42:17] >> where people have superpowers from drug injections. I didn't really kind of like there's at least like a semblance of like I understand why they this and that and this kind of seemed like an easy way to tie things together

[42:31] and like get out of >> I think season I think season 5 of The Boys might be an even better watch after we see Vought Rising. >> Like it might be like being an even better watch.

[42:43] >> [laughter] >> If that is true, I don't really like like, oh well, season 8 of Game of Thrones is a lot better after you watch >> [laughter] >> I loved as far as Kimiko goes, the idea

[42:57] that this is a character who was traumatized and always struggled with her self-confidence and always struggled with who she was and didn't like the then she felt like she had to tap into this anger and rage that defined her in

[43:10] the comic book and in the show. And that ultimately Frenchie, the person who person who taught her to express herself with love and to use her powers with love at the end instead of with rage. I thought his cameo was absolutely pitch

[43:23] >> And she's always she was created to be a weapon and Butcher always used her like a weapon, but now we got to see her make the choice to be the weapon and I thought that was a nice touch. Yeah. >> Like the anti-Iron Giant.

[43:38] Right? Total flip side of that. >> Superman. >> Happy she got a happy ending. Don't don't don't gets me every time. Okay, >> [laughter] >> Oh my god, my nephew called me crying

[43:50] the first time and he was sad that The Iron Giant died and then I was like, moving. Everything's cool." And he was like, "Oh, okay." >> I've watched it a hundred times. I still cry when it happens. Starlight.

[44:02] ending? >> Um It's it I hate that so much happened off screen for Starlight, you know, like the earlier episode where Kimiko and her are like, "Oh, I don't want to take the V1

[44:16] cuz immortality would suck. I would have to watch you too die, right?" figured that out. Why am I not seeing like we we get a little bit of a month time skip, right? And then she's

[44:29] pregnant. And I like that it it sets up the whole like Robin protect your mom >> Yeah. >> That's my biggest issue with this finale have loved more of it. I would have loved to see It is so quick after the

[44:42] the Butcher and Hughie confrontation. Thrones always had an entire issue. >> I think there's I think there's been this confusion that this show was ever

[44:55] Starlight's show, and I can see why that confusion was there because of how much And then I think especially with season 4 they did a lot. But I think what the finale really showed is that this was always Butcher and Hughie's show, like

[45:08] specifically. So, while she may have felt a little sidelined, maybe a little I I don't have a problem with it necessarily because this was always this show needed to focus on its ending being about Butcher

[45:24] about Starlight at the end, and I'm curious where this universe would take this idea. So, she at the end of it is now a super She's like a real superhero. silly, but she uses her abilities to help people. But the theme of this show

[45:39] is that people who have power will ultimately be corrupted by that power. Um Annie, you know, was always shown as kind of not that, but she also had all hadn't sexually harassed her on the first day, she probably would have been

[45:53] fame first and done all these other things and made those sacrifices along >> So, the fact that that's the theme of the show, and then they end it with, superheroes. Some people can still step outside the law. There's this uh

[46:07] and he gave a great video the other day. He talked about how if you were to explain vigilantes to aliens or people from outside our culture, you would they these people catch bad guys. You don't have systems in place to catch bad guys.

[46:20] Oh, we do, but these people get to cut through those systems. They break the law to enforce the law. And it's it it to me, it's a satisfying ending for her, but it's also pretty antithetical to think that there's a vigilante running

[46:33] liked it better if she would have been deputized by the authorities and would the law. The only thing I think that justifies it is that she just spent over a year in a position of weakness, and as Erskine

[46:46] said, you know, a a weak man knows the value of strength. So, that's where I landed on it, but I still think that satisfying, but didn't quite fit the >> I I think cuz like the show definitely says like, oh, power will corrupt you,

[47:00] right? But I I I think the message of there are some people who are uncorruptible or like people that have the will to like get through anything. confrontation, where Butcher is like, all that [ __ ] I put you through all

[47:13] these years, and you still came out of it a good person. Like Hughie is If Hughie had V, he would be in the same vigilante position that Annie would be, and we wouldn't question whether or not Hughie could be corrupted by that

[47:25] >> But in season three, though, when he did get powers, and he faced those same >> Wait, going off of what Ethan just said though about how some people are uncorruptible, I think it is also a testament to the futility of being an

[47:39] uncorruptible like fair-minded person who decides to go into an organization has problems, but I'm going to try and be a light in the darkness, and I'm try and clean it up and make it good. There's a lot of people who think, I'm

[47:54] be like a really good cop by the book. I'm going to become a prosecutor and I'm prosecutor. I'm going to be a judge, I'm going to be a good, fair-minded judge. When you work within a system that itself has fractures and is in some ways

[48:09] corrupt, in some ways unfair, in some ways unjust, it is very difficult and almost soul-crushing to try to stay optimistic and try to make a difference and make things better in a what is really like a massive uh beast that you

[48:24] are just a small part of it. And that's what Vought is in this universe. Like, even if Annie is a good person or like they we've seen plenty of superheroes bad people. We didn't think that Blindspot was a a bad person. We didn't

[48:38] person. We didn't think, you know, like there were a lot of them that were just like decent that ended up dying or bad things happened to them. Um and sadly not enough of them to make a difference in a very large and corrupt

[48:51] like the bigger of a dick you are. Sorry. >> Well, it comes back to that argument of like unilateral disarmament. Like >> but that's what it is. Yeah. >> Yeah, but take like gerrymandering.

[49:06] anti-gerrymandering. But when the opposite side of where I gerrymandering, well, what's the proper response? To stay true to my I am anti-gerrymandering or to gerrymander to to counteract it?

[49:20] So, it's like >> With Starlight, who's in the right or >> So, what does Starlight need to do? Not be a superhero and let crime run rampant and let the supes who do still have powers do their thing or be a hypocrite

[49:32] and embrace her superpowers to be a check and balance? Yeah, it's it's kind >> Also, I want to point out that I think Vought-sponsored superheroes are not vigilantes in this universe. They are deputized to stop crimes. Like in the

[49:44] first season, you have Madeline Stillwell discussing figures on whether to put Nubian Prince in Detroit. Like, they're working out deals with the city governments and that presumably gives them the authority to act with the color

[49:57] Vought is covering it up. Singer, that's going to fly. >> No. But again, you know, federal power versus state and municipality power, if they decide that they want to hire a

[50:11] private law enforcement force that has superheroes, unless there's a federal law that bans it nationwide. >> And I think we're going to see a lot of like say what you will, you know, about President Singer.

[50:25] to have some interesting conversations in future shows. Like we're going to see backroom deals being made between these two characters. Yeah. >> Who both now probably have a greater appreciation for the seriousness of this

[50:37] given that they were both an inch away from death at the hands of >> And I mean, Stan Edgar's no fan of supes either, I don't think at this point. So >> not a superhero company. >> We're a pharmaceutical

[50:49] company, we're a pharmaceutical company. So what else can V2 do? Can V2 cure cancer? Can it Can it cure cancer temporarily and then they have to keep They wouldn't just cure cancer. They would find a way to like Yeah, create

[51:04] >> Yeah, if they did find a way to just completely cure cancer, they would send way that it cures it for 5 years. Like that's what they exactly. >> Uh Marcus

[51:18] >> Oh, with the tumor. Yeah, that's right. >> Well, with the tumor, but they also have like one of those um like oh, you can be beautiful, but it only lasts like a week like thing. >> Like the substance or something. Yeah.

[51:31] >> Okay, let's go to the heavies now. Let's talk about Butcher. What about his >> Okay, can I can I say I think it was a perfect ending, but um knowing that there are a million

[51:44] spin-offs on the way, I did kind of want to see Butcher become a villain, like have him be the next Homelander threat. Like that was If you kept Butcher alive, that would be the only way to do this. And I only I'm I'm speaking completely

[51:57] selfishly because I just love Karl Urban's portrayal of this character. I that he got was perfect. It was It was too, except >> You've been dogging on me all stream cuz

[52:10] >> You've been dogging on me all stream cuz I'm okay with spin-offs and now you're >> No, but I'm saying I'm saying I'm saying that there If we are going to be forced to eat a million spin-offs in this universe, I

[52:23] >> [laughter] >> Well, nobody's making you watch them. Well, actually, somebody is making you watch them. I am. So >> I'll I'll WATCH THE SPIN-OFF. >> [laughter]

[52:37] season 3. >> Well, I don't know. It's not getting it. could have ended any other way. I think it had to go. He was always going to not stop. And it was a perfect >> Sorry, go ahead.

[52:50] terrorist story in the one-shot, that's what set this up. Cuz that was his last >> revenge. He kept his promise to Becca. He made sure that Ryan was like safe and was going to be well taken care of. Like

[53:02] for him. Uh and then I feel like it was almost this is the part where he just goes then fades away. Like I think he left the bottle there. I think he

[53:14] >> wanted Hughie to stop him. I think he really wanted >> to be killed by his canary. Like >> Because he was still of two minds. Even Butcher was always a divided person. That's why that power is what developed

[53:28] Sorry, Tommy. >> No, no, no. I I think that, you know, one of the simplest themes of this show for me is isolation makes you sick, of these characters became more isolated, they became the more the most

[53:42] evil versions of themselves, including the villains, including Homelander. When he finally resolved that he was the one true god, he became the most evil time Butcher was separated from the boys, he his plans got more diabolical,

[53:56] more evil, more death. Every time Starlight got separated from Hughie, she started to become more cynical about what really makes the world go round. starts to believe that there is a purpose for her to be.

[54:08] So ultimately, once Terror died, that was like that was the one thing tethering Butcher back to like reality. And that was like that and to to his old to his old life. I mean, he had this version of himself

[54:21] that had become this superpowered being that was basically a version of death. dog that he loved that he would go to any length to keep alive. And then that think it that that that his act of going to Vought Tower was basically knowing

[54:36] there and stop him. And I ultimately think that if Butcher wanted to kill powers, he could have in that fight. I think all of that >> in that room, too. That's the room where Hughie first made an act to definitively

[54:50] put himself on the side of Butcher when he put the the microphone under the desk >> Yeah, we talked about yeah. >> That is where their relationship began >> I I thought that was perfect. And and the other full circle moment that was

[55:05] great, if we can move on to Hughie, was it ends with him stepping out to the journey. I pointed this out in the ending and explained Colton, you probably talked about it, too, in your in in your Easter egg video. But the

[55:17] the fact that this show is full of many episodes begin and end with similar themes, you know, with similar scenes. Young Starlight in a beauty pageant, and then ends with Starlight like in the present day standing her ground. Like

[55:30] fact the first episode mirrored the last episode so well. Uh this episode even thought that was all great. What do you guys think of Huey's ending? through by another speedster right at the end. That's what

[55:43] >> Marathon Man. Oh, no, he's dead. Yeah, that would have been amazing. >> Oh. >> [laughter]

[55:55] hanging out >> Oh my god. >> Marcos Garcia [clears throat] gave us five bucks and said, "IDF war criminal season, lol." Um and I asked, I'm not sure who who they were talking about.

[56:09] >> They're referring to Frenchie's actor. Frenchie's actor, Tomer Capon. you. Got you. So, we're not talking about that right now. I don't know how I said that you don't got to put That's how you know when you're producing your

[56:21] own thing. You're reading stuff on the fly. I don't know what I'm doing. THAT'S the thing, like no matter what people thought about the scale of the but what you guys are describing the expectations sounds like everything

[56:37] people hated about the Stranger Things finale. The big CGI monster and the show's never been big. It's always best when it's small, shows that supes are kind of dumb and kind of gross, and

[56:51] they just are like regular humans in so many ways. Um so, that goes back violence that you see in the show is not even supe on supe. It's usually a supe like that. >> The finale if the finale had looked like

[57:07] one of the Vought movies, I just >> That would have been awful. Yeah. >> And also like the way you brought up there, Mike, is a great point because the show is about showing how powers, if they were real, would absolutely turn

[57:22] these people into alien beings. Like they're not really human anymore cuz weakness. They lose all the things that make them human. And seeing that like sudden burst of violence from people and the way the human body is just made of

[57:35] skin and feet and blood and just explodes so easily is horrifying. And I think that this battle was our turn to see that happen to Homelander. human, it almost makes me think that the only part of them that's really human

[57:48] that's left is their vices. And that's maybe why they lean so heavily into their vices because that is human. Like to be in an addict

[58:00] or whatever whatever like whatever their thing is, there's so many weirdo soups that are into odd things that maybe that's like is like having their and magnifying them.

[58:12] observation? >> What specifically are you referring to? It's like odd vices. >> Um, I mean, I don't know. You guys want >> No, yeah, why not? Why not? Those that you were watching with Lamplighter,

[58:26] >> We should probably do this for the channel. Ethan, we should make a social that is like all the grossest moments in The Boys, but the whole screen is just censored for every single time. Cuz there's like remember the start of

[58:38] season 3 when the one guy is small and he crawls into the other guy? Herogasm. >> [laughter] left. Let's everybody just say their fondest disgusting memory from The Boys

[58:52] while keeping this as PG as possible. already gone. >> You got to give me a minute. >> You have [laughter] 45 seconds. >> Uh, the the little Ant-Man guy running

[59:04] around in the urethra. That that always gets me. That's what I was talking the same one. >> Yeah, that's pretty gross. whale. >> Oh, yeah.

[59:19] Oh, yeah. Classic, classic. >> Yeah. >> No, go ahead. >> No, it's okay. congresswoman in half at the season finale of season 4.

[59:32] >> Vice president, I'm sorry. >> The very first one of the series when >> vice president. >> Who's getting run through? Everybody's >> I didn't recognize any of the women politicians on the show and I never do.

[59:45] After she gets run through and at the club A-Train missed [laughter] following >> You're talking about trains getting run through. Guys, we need to come up with a whole new >> After she gets After she gets railed by

[1:00:00] >> There, that's better. Now we know what you're talking about. Guys, we got to wrap it up there and I think just in time. Uh, let's see here. Tommy, you got about? >> I don't. I just got to get back to work.

[1:00:12] I'm late already. I can't believe this keeps happening. There's people outside >> PLEASE SIGN THE >> ALL RIGHT. >> SOMEBODY'S GOT TO

[1:00:24] >> ALL RIGHT, TELL Tell Janet we said eat [ __ ] Talk to you later. Mike, you got any shows coming up to tell us about? >> I do. I actually have a show tomorrow kidding. Mike, I'm running right back. [laughter] I'm running right back. I'm

[1:00:36] >> All right, good. Good. You have a show >> Guys, Ryan really likes me, okay? I'm his number one [laughter] bro on this channel. >> He's one of my favorite people alive.

[1:00:48] Please tell us about your show. My hands are You can see my hands. I can't click >> Uh, I do a monthly news comedy show here in Chicago. It's called Keepin' Tabs News. We have a show tomorrow night, May 21st, uh, June 18th, and July 16th at

[1:01:01] The Annoyance Theatre here in Chicago. But if you're not in Chicago and you want to watch the show for free, you can go follow us on YouTube at Keepin' Tabs go follow us on YouTube at Keepin' Tabs News. No G, just k e e p i n t a b s n e

[1:01:15] w s. On YouTube, on Instagram, follow me on Instagram at Mike M Comedy if you, for whatever reason in any way think that I'm funny cuz I do other things and post a lot of stuff.

[1:01:27] Uh, and that's it. I've I've said too much. Um, I love you guys. I love this Thanks for having me on. Peace. >> Thanks for coming on, Mike. Uh, I miss him already. And Colton, you

[1:01:39] his own channel. Links for those are below. Thanks so much. I know you got a And Ethan, thanks for all your help and everything you've done this season. You're a true fan of The Boys and Gen V and we couldn't do these breakdowns

[1:01:52] >> Thanks. >> And we want to hear from you guys. What Let us know down in the comments below or you can find me on Twitter, Blue Sky server, or subscribe to me on Substack. That's always a huge help. And if it's

[1:02:04] and smash that bell for alerts. And don't forget, tonight 8:00 p.m. EST, watch party. We've never done one of these before, so come enjoy all of the technical mistakes that we're going to make gloriously live in front of all of

[1:02:18] make gloriously live in front of all of you. Talk to