The REAL Reason No One Knows What’s Coming With AI

[00:00] So, ChachiT kind of set off the starting

[00:02] pistol for this this whole race and

[00:05] subsequently it appears that every other

[00:07] major technology company now is

[00:09] investing godly amounts ungodly amounts

[00:12] of money in competing in this AI race

[00:14] and they're pursuing this thing called

[00:16] AGI which we hear this word used a lot.

[00:18] >> Yes.

[00:18] >> What is what is AGI and how is that

[00:20] different from what I use at the moment

[00:21] on chatb or Gemini?

[00:23] >> Yeah. So that's the thing that people

[00:25] really need to get is that these

[00:27] companies are not racing to provide a

[00:29] chatbot to users. That's not what their

[00:31] goal is. If you look at the mission

[00:32] statement on OpenAI's website or all the

[00:34] websites, their mission is to be able to

[00:36] replace all forms of human economic

[00:39] labor in the economy. Meaning an AI that

[00:42] can do all the cognitive labor meaning

[00:44] labor of the mind. So that that can be

[00:46] marketing, that can be text, that can be

[00:48] illustration, that can be video

[00:49] production, that can be code production.

[00:52] Everything that a person can do with

[00:54] their brain, these companies are racing

[00:56] to build that. That is artificial

[00:59] general intelligence. General meaning

[01:01] all kinds of cognitive tasks. Demis

[01:04] Hassabis the co-founder of um Google

[01:07] DeepMind used to say first solve

[01:09] intelligence and then use that to solve

[01:12] everything else. Like it's important to

[01:13] say why why is AI distinct from all

[01:15] other kinds of technologies? It's

[01:17] because if I make an advance in one

[01:19] field like rocketry, if I just let's say

[01:22] I uncover some secret in rocketry, that

[01:24] doesn't advance like biio medicine

[01:27] knowledge or it doesn't advance energy

[01:28] production or doesn't advance coding.

[01:31] But if I can advance generalized

[01:33] intelligence, think of all science and

[01:35] technology development over the course

[01:36] of all human history. So science and

[01:38] technology is all done by humans

[01:41] thinking and working out problems.

[01:42] Working out problems in any domain. So

[01:45] if I automate intelligence, I'm suddenly

[01:47] going to get an explosion of all

[01:49] scientific and technological development

[01:51] everywhere. Does that make sense?

[01:53] >> Of course. Yeah. It's foundational to

[01:54] everything.

[01:55] >> Exactly. Which is why there's a belief

[01:57] that if I get there first and can

[01:58] automate generalized intelligence, I can

[02:01] own the world economy because suddenly

[02:04] everything that a human can do that they

[02:05] would be paid to do in a job, the AI can

[02:07] do that better. And so if I'm a company,

[02:10] do I want to pay the human who has

[02:12] health care, might whistleblow,

[02:13] complains, you know, has to sleep, has

[02:16] sick days, has family issues, or do I

[02:18] want to pay the AI that will work 24/7

[02:20] at superhuman speed, doesn't complain,

[02:23] doesn't whistleblow, doesn't have to be

[02:24] paid for healthcare. There's the

[02:26] incentive for everyone to move to paying

[02:29] for AIs rather than paying humans. And

[02:32] so AGI, artificial general intelligence,

[02:35] is more transformative than any other

[02:37] kind of of technology that we've ever

[02:39] had and it's distinct.

[02:41] >> With the sheer amount of money being

[02:44] invested into it and the money being

[02:46] invested into the infrastructure, the

[02:47] physical data centers, the chips, the

[02:49] compute,

[02:51] do you think we're going to get there?

[02:54] Do you think we're going to get to AGI?

[02:55] >> I do think that we're going to get

[02:56] there. It's not clear uh how long it

[02:58] will take. And I'm not saying that

[03:00] because I believe necessarily the

[03:01] current paradigm that we're building on

[03:03] will take us there, but you know, I'm

[03:05] based in San Francisco. I talked to

[03:06] people at the AI labs. Half these people

[03:08] are friends of mine. You know, people at

[03:09] the very top level. And you know, most

[03:13] people in the industry believe that

[03:15] they'll get there between the next two

[03:16] and 10 years at the latest. And I think

[03:19] some people might say, "Oh, well, it may

[03:20] not happen for a while. Phew. I can sit

[03:22] back and we don't have to worry about

[03:23] And it's like we're heading for so much

[03:26] transformative change faster than our

[03:28] society is currently prepared to deal

[03:29] with it. The reason I was excited to

[03:32] talk to you today is because I think

[03:33] that people are currently confused about

[03:35] AI. You know, people say it's going to

[03:36] solve everything, cure cancer, uh solve

[03:39] climate change, and there's people say

[03:40] it's going to kill everything. It's

[03:41] going to be doom. Everyone's going to go

[03:43] extinct. If anyone builds it, everyone

[03:44] dies. And those those conversations

[03:46] don't converge. And so everyone's just

[03:48] kind of confused where how can it be,

[03:50] you know, infinite promise and how can

[03:52] it be infinite peril? And what I wanted

[03:54] to do today is to really clarify for

[03:56] people what the incentives point us

[03:58] towards which is a future that I think

[04:00] people when they see it clearly would

[04:02] not want.

[04:03] >> So what are the incentives pointing us

[04:05] towards in terms of the future?

[04:08] >> So first is if you believe that this is

[04:10] like it's metaphorically it's like the

[04:12] ring from Lord of the Rings. It's the

[04:13] ring that that creates infinite power

[04:16] because if I have AGI, I can apply that

[04:19] to military advantage. I can have the

[04:20] best military planner that can beat all

[04:22] battle plans for anyone. And we already

[04:24] have AIs that can obviously beat Gary

[04:27] Kasparov at chess, beat Go, the Go Asian

[04:30] um board game, or now beat Starcraft. So

[04:33] you have AI that are beating humans at

[04:34] strategy games. Well, think about

[04:36] Starcraft compared to an actual military

[04:39] campaign, you know, in Taiwan or

[04:40] something like that. If I have an AI

[04:42] that can out compete in strategy games,

[04:44] that lets me out compete everything. Or

[04:46] take business strategy. If I have an AI

[04:48] that can do business strategy and figure

[04:49] out supply chains and figure out how to

[04:51] optimize them and figure out how to

[04:52] undermine my competitors

[04:54] and I have a, you know, a step function

[04:56] level increase in that compared to

[04:57] everybody else, then that gives me

[04:59] infinite power to undermine and out

[05:01] compete all businesses. If I have a

[05:03] super programmer, then I can out compete

[05:06] programming. 70 to 90% of the code

[05:08] written at today's AI labs is written by

[05:10] AI.

[05:12] >> Think about the stock market as well.

[05:14] >> Think about the stock market. If I have

[05:15] an AI that can trade in the stock market

[05:16] better than all the other AIs, because

[05:19] they're currently there's mostly AIs

[05:20] that are actually trading on the stock

[05:21] market, but if I have a jump in that,

[05:23] then I can consolidate all the wealth.

[05:25] If I have an AI that can do cyber

[05:26] hacking, that's way better at cyber

[05:28] hacking in a step function above what

[05:30] everyone else can do, then I have an

[05:32] asymmetric advantage over everybody

[05:33] else. So AI is like a power pump. It

[05:37] pumps economic advantage. It pumps

[05:40] scientific advantage and it pumps

[05:42] military advantage. Which is why the

[05:44] countries and the companies are caught

[05:46] in what they believe is a race to get

[05:48] there first. And anything that is a

[05:50] negative consequence of that, job loss,

[05:53] rising energy prices, more emissions,

[05:56] stealing intellectual property, you

[05:58] know, security risks, all of that stuff

[06:00] feels small relative to if I don't get

[06:03] there first, then some other person who

[06:06] has less good values as me, they'll get

[06:08] AGI and then I will be forever a slave

[06:10] to their future. And I know this might

[06:12] sound crazy to a lot of people, but this

[06:14] is how people in at the very top of the

[06:17] AGI AI world believe is currently

[06:20] happening. And that's what

[06:21] >> conversations.

[06:21] >> Yeah.

[06:24] >> You you've had I mean know Jeff Hinton

[06:26] and and Roman Ylonsky on and other

[06:28] people Mogadat and they're saying the

[06:30] same thing. And I think people need to

[06:31] take seriously that whether you believe

[06:34] it or not, the people who are currently

[06:36] deploying the trillions of dollars, this

[06:38] is what they believe. And they believe

[06:40] that it's win or take all. And it's not

[06:42] just first solve intelligence and use

[06:44] that to solve everything else. It's

[06:45] first dominate intelligence and use that

[06:48] to dominate everything else.

[06:49] >> Have you had concerning private

[06:51] conversations about this subject matter

[06:52] with people that are in the industry?

[06:55] >> Absolutely. I think that's what most

[06:58] people don't understand is that um

[07:00] there's a different conversation

[07:02] happening publicly than the one that's

[07:03] happening privately. I think you're

[07:05] aware of this as well.

[07:05] >> I am aware of this.

[07:06] >> What do they say to you?

[07:10] >> So, it's not always the people telling

[07:13] me directly. It's usually one step

[07:15] removed. So, it's usually someone that I

[07:17] trust and I've known for many, many

[07:19] years who at a kitchen table says, "I

[07:21] met this particular CEO. We were in this

[07:23] room talking about the future of AI.

[07:25] this particular CEO they're referencing

[07:26] is leading one of the biggest AI

[07:28] companies in the world and then they'll

[07:29] explain to me what they think of the

[07:31] future's going to look like and then

[07:32] when I go and watch them on YouTube or

[07:34] podcasts what they're saying is they

[07:36] they have this real public bias towards

[07:38] the abundance part that you know we're

[07:40] going to cure cancer

[07:41] >> cure cancer universal high income for

[07:43] everyone

[07:44] >> yeah all this all this stuff

[07:46] >> doesn't work anymore

[07:47] >> but then privately what I hear is is

[07:49] exactly what you said which is really

[07:51] terrifying to me there was actually

[07:52] since since the last time we had a

[07:54] conversation about AR and podcast, I was

[07:56] speaking to a friend of mine, very

[07:58] successful billionaire, knows a lot of

[07:59] these people, and he is concerned

[08:02] because his argument is that if there's

[08:04] even like a 5% chance of the adverse

[08:09] outcomes that we hear about, we should

[08:12] not be doing this. And he was saying to

[08:13] me that some of his friends who are

[08:15] running some of these companies believe

[08:16] the chance is much higher than that, but

[08:18] they feel like they're caught in a race

[08:20] where if they don't control this

[08:21] technology and they don't get there

[08:22] first and get to what they refer to as

[08:25] um takeoff, like fast takeoff.

[08:27] >> Yeah. Uh recursive self-improvement or

[08:29] fast takeoff, which basically means what

[08:31] the companies are really in a race for

[08:33] you're pointing to is they're in a race

[08:35] to automate AI research. Um because so

[08:38] right now you have open AI, it's got a

[08:40] few thousand employees. Human beings are

[08:43] coding and doing the AI research.

[08:45] They're reading the latest research

[08:46] papers. They're writing the next, you

[08:48] know, they're hypothesizing what's the

[08:50] improvement we're going to make to AI.

[08:51] What's a new way to do this code? What's

[08:52] a new technique? And then they use their

[08:54] human mind and they go invent something.

[08:57] They they run the experiment and they

[08:58] see if that improves the performance.

[09:00] And that's how you go from, you know,

[09:01] GPT4 to GPT5 or something. Imagine a

[09:05] world where Sam Alman can instead of

[09:07] having human AI researchers can have AI

[09:11] AI researchers. So now I just snap my

[09:14] fingers and I go from one AI that reads

[09:17] all the papers, writes all the code,

[09:18] creates the new experiments to I can

[09:21] copy paste a 100 million AI researchers

[09:24] that are now doing that in an automated

[09:26] way. And it the belief is not just that,

[09:29] you know, the companies look like

[09:30] they're competing to release better chat

[09:32] bots for people, but the what they're

[09:33] really competing for is to get to this

[09:36] milestone of being to automate an

[09:38] intelligence explosion or automate

[09:40] recursive self-improvement, which is

[09:42] basically automating AI research. And

[09:44] that, by the way, is why all the

[09:46] companies are racing specifically to get

[09:49] good at programming because the faster

[09:51] you can automate a human programmer, the

[09:54] more you can automate AI research. And

[09:56] just a couple weeks ago, Cloud 4.5 was

[09:59] released and it can do 30 hours of

[10:02] uninterrupted complex programming tasks

[10:05] at the at the high end.

[10:07] That's crazy.

[10:09] So right now one of the limits on the

[10:10] progress of AI is that human humans are

[10:12] doing the work but actually all of these

[10:14] companies are pushing to the moment when

[10:16] AI will be doing the work which means

[10:17] they can have an infinite arguably

[10:19] smarter zerocost workforce that's right

[10:22] scaling the AI. So when they talk about

[10:24] fast takeoff they mean the moment where

[10:26] they where the AI takes control of the

[10:27] research and it and progress rapidly

[10:29] increases

[10:30] >> and it self-learns and recursively

[10:31] improves and invents. Um, so one thing

[10:34] to get is that AI accelerates AI, right?

[10:37] Like if I invent nuclear weapons,

[10:40] nuclear weapons don't invent better

[10:41] nuclear weapons.

[10:42] >> Yeah.

[10:43] >> But if I invent AI, AI is intelligence.

[10:46] Intelligence automates better

[10:47] programming, better chip design. So I

[10:49] can use AI to say, here's a design for

[10:51] the NVIDIA chips. Go make it 50% more

[10:53] efficient. And it can find out how to do

[10:54] that. I can say AI, here's a supply

[10:56] chain that I need for all the things for

[10:58] my AI company. And it can optimize that

[11:00] supply chain and make that supply chain

[11:01] more efficient.

[11:02] >> Mhm. AI, here's the code for making AI.

[11:04] Make that more efficient. Um, AI, here's

[11:07] training data. I need to make more

[11:08] training data. Go run a million

[11:10] simulations of how to do this and it'll

[11:12] train itself to get better.

[11:14] >> AI accelerates AI.

[11:15] >> What do you think these people are

[11:16] motivated by the CEOs of these

[11:18] companies?

[11:19] >> That's a good question.

[11:20] >> Genuinely, what do you think their

[11:21] genuine motivations are when you think

[11:23] about all these names?

[11:26] >> I think it's a subtle thing.

[11:29] I think

[11:31] there's um it's almost mythological

[11:35] because

[11:37] there's almost a way in which they're

[11:38] building a new intelligent entity that

[11:41] has never before existed on planet

[11:43] Earth. It's like building a god. I mean,

[11:45] the incentive is build a god, own the

[11:48] world economy, and make trillions of

[11:49] dollars, right? If you could actually

[11:52] build something that can automate all

[11:54] intelligent tasks, all goal achieving

[11:58] that will let you out compete

[11:59] everything. So that is a kind of godlike

[12:02] power that I think relative imagine

[12:05] energy prices go up or hundreds of

[12:06] millions of people lose their jobs. That

[12:09] those things suck. But relative to if I

[12:11] don't build it first and build this god,

[12:14] I'm going to lose to some maybe worse

[12:15] person who I think in my opinion, not my

[12:17] opinion, Tristan, but their opinion

[12:19] thinks is a worse person. It's it's a

[12:21] kind of competitive logic that

[12:26] self-reinforces itself, but it forces

[12:28] everyone to be incentivized to take the

[12:31] most shortcuts, to care the least about

[12:33] safety or security, to not care about

[12:36] how many jobs get disrupted, to not care

[12:37] about the well-being of regular people,

[12:39] but to basically just race to this

[12:42] infinite prize. So, there's a quote that

[12:44] um a friend of mine interviewed a lot of

[12:46] the top people at the AI companies, like

[12:48] the very top, and he just came back from

[12:50] that and and basically reported back to

[12:52] me and some friends, and he said the

[12:54] following.

[12:56] In the end, a lot of the tech people I

[12:58] talk to when I'm when I really grill

[12:59] them on it about like why you're doing

[13:01] this, they retreat into number one,

[13:04] determinism,

[13:06] number two, the inevitable replacement

[13:08] of biological life with digital life,

[13:10] and number three, that being a good

[13:12] thing. Anyways, at its core, it's an

[13:15] emotional desire to meet and speak to

[13:17] the most intelligent entity that they've

[13:20] ever met. And they have some ego

[13:22] religious intuition that they'll somehow

[13:23] be a part of it. It's thrilling to start

[13:26] an exciting fire. They feel they'll die

[13:28] either way, so they prefer to light it

[13:30] and see what happens.

[13:33] >> That is the perfect description of the

[13:35] private conversations.

[13:36] >> Doesn't that match what what you have

[13:38] description,

[13:38] >> doesn't it? And that's the thing. So,

[13:40] people may hear that and they're like,

[13:40] "Well, that sounds ridiculous." But if

[13:42] you actually

[13:42] >> I just got goosebumps cuz it's the

[13:44] perfect description. Especially the part

[13:46] they'll think they'll die either way.

[13:47] >> Exactly. Well, and um worse than that,

[13:52] some of them think that in the case

[13:54] where they if they were to get it right

[13:55] and if they succeeded, they could

[13:57] actually live forever because if AI

[13:59] perfectly speaks the language of

[14:00] biology, it will be able to reverse

[14:03] aging aging, cure every disease. And and

[14:07] so there's this kind of I could become a

[14:09] god. And I'll I'll tell you um you know,

[14:11] you and I both have know people who've

[14:12] had private conversations. Well, one of

[14:15] them that I have heard from one of the

[14:17] co-founders of one of the most, you

[14:19] know, powerful of these companies when

[14:22] when faced with the idea that what if

[14:24] there's an 80% or 20% chance that

[14:27] everybody dies and gets wiped out by

[14:29] this, but an 80% chance that we get

[14:32] utopia. He said, well, I would clearly

[14:34] accelerate and go for the utopia.

[14:37] Given a 20% chance,

[14:41] >> it's crazy. People should feel you do

[14:44] not get to make that choice on behalf of

[14:45] me and my family. We didn't consent to

[14:49] have six people make that decision on

[14:50] behalf of eight billion people. We have

[14:53] to stop pretending that this is okay or

[14:54] normal. It's not normal. And the only

[14:57] way that this is happening and they're

[14:58] getting away with it is because most

[15:00] people just don't really know what's

[15:02] going on.

[15:03] >> Yeah. But I'm curious what what do you

[15:04] think when they

[15:05] >> I mean everything you just said. It's

[15:07] that last part about the 8020% thing is

[15:09] almost verbatim what I heard from a very

[15:11] good very successful friend of mine who

[15:13] is responsible for building some of the

[15:15] biggest companies in the world when he

[15:16] was referencing a conversation he had

[15:17] with the founder of maybe the biggest

[15:21] air company in the world. And it was

[15:22] truly shocking to me because because it

[15:25] was said in such a blasé way.

[15:27] >> Yes. It wasn't Yeah. That that's what I

[15:28] had heard in this particular situation.

[15:30] wasn't like

[15:33] a matter of fact.

[15:33] >> It was a matter of fact, it's just easy.

[15:34] Yeah, of course I would do the I would

[15:36] take the I roll the dice.

[15:38] >> And even Elon Musk said he actually said

[15:41] the same number in an interview with Joe

[15:42] Rogan. Um and if you listen closely when

[15:45] he said, "I decided I'd rather be there

[15:48] when it all happens. If it all goes off

[15:50] the rails, I decided in that worst case

[15:52] scenario, I decided that I' I'd prefer

[15:54] to be there when it happens." which is

[15:56] just is justifying racing to our

[15:58] collective suicide. Now, I also want

[16:00] people to know like you don't have to

[16:02] buy into the sci-fi level risks to be

[16:04] very concerned about AI. So, hopefully

[16:05] later we'll talk about um the many other

[16:08] risks that are already hitting us right

[16:10] now that you don't have to believe any

[16:11] of this stuff.

[16:12] >> Yeah. The the Elon thing I think is

[16:14] particularly interesting because for the

[16:16] last 10 years he was this slightly hard

[16:19] to believe voice on the subject of AI.

[16:21] He was talking about it being a huge

[16:23] risk and an extinction level.

[16:25] >> He was the first AI people. Yeah. He was

[16:26] saying this is more dangerous than

[16:28] nukes. He was saying I try to get people

[16:29] to stop doing it. This is summoning the

[16:31] demon. Those are his words, not mine.

[16:33] >> Yeah.

[16:33] >> Um we shouldn't do this. Supposedly, he

[16:35] used his first and only meeting with

[16:37] President Obama, I think in 2016, to

[16:40] advocate for global regulation and

[16:42] global controls on on AI um because he

[16:44] was very worried about it. And then

[16:46] really what happened is um Chachi BT

[16:50] came out and as you said that was the

[16:52] starting gun and now everybody was in an

[16:54] allout race to get there first. He

[16:56] tweeted words to the effect I'll put it

[16:58] on the screen. He tweeted that he had

[17:01] remained in I think he used a word

[17:04] similar to disbelief for some time like

[17:06] suspended disbelief but then he said in

[17:08] the same tweet that the race is now on.

[17:11] >> The race is on and I have to race

[17:12] >> and I have to go. I have no choice but

[17:14] to go. And he tried, he's basically

[17:15] saying, "I tried to fight it for a long

[17:17] time. I tried to deny it. I tried to

[17:18] hope that we wouldn't get here, but

[17:19] we're here now, so I have to go."

[17:21] >> Yeah.

[17:21] >> And

[17:23] at least he's being honest. He does seem

[17:26] to have a pretty honest track record on

[17:28] this because because he was the guy 10

[17:29] years ago warning everybody. And I

[17:31] remember him talking about it and

[17:32] thinking, "Oh god, this is like 100

[17:33] years away. Why are we talking about

[17:34] that?"

[17:34] >> I felt the same, by the way. Some people

[17:35] might think that I'm some kind of AI

[17:36] enthusiast and I'm trying to ratch I I

[17:38] didn't believe that AI was a thing to be

[17:40] worried about at all until suddenly the

[17:42] last 2 three years where you can

[17:44] actually see where we're headed. But um

[17:48] oh man there's just there's so much to

[17:49] say about all this and so if you think

[17:52] about it from their perspective it's

[17:55] like best case scenario I build it first

[17:58] and it's aligned and controllable

[18:01] meaning that it will take the actions

[18:02] that I want. It won't destroy humanity

[18:04] and it's controllable which means I get

[18:06] to be god and emperor of the world.

[18:09] Second scenario, it's not controllable

[18:12] but it's aligned. So I built a god and I

[18:14] lost control of it but it's now

[18:16] basically it's running humanity. It's

[18:17] running the show. It's choosing what

[18:19] happens. It's out competing everyone on

[18:21] everything. That's not that bad an

[18:23] outcome. Third scenario, it's not

[18:26] aligned. It's not controllable. And it

[18:28] does wipe everybody out. And that should

[18:30] be demotivating to that person to an

[18:32] Elon or someone. But in that scenario,

[18:36] they were the one that birthed the

[18:37] digital god that replaced all of

[18:39] humanity. Like this is really important

[18:41] to get because in nuclear weapons,

[18:44] the risk of nuclear war is an omni

[18:47] lose-lose outcome. Everyone wants to

[18:49] avoid that. And I know that you know

[18:51] that I know that we both want to avoid

[18:52] that.

[18:54] So that that motivates us to coordinate

[18:56] and to have a nuclear

[18:57] non-prololiferation treaty. But with AI,

[19:01] the worst case scenario of everybody

[19:03] gets wiped out is a little bit different

[19:06] for the people making that decision.

[19:08] Because if I'm the CEO of DeepSeek and I

[19:12] make that AI that does wipe out

[19:13] humanity, that's the worst case scenario

[19:15] and it wasn't avoidable because it was

[19:17] all inevitable. Then even though we all

[19:20] got wiped out, I was the one who built

[19:22] the digital god that replaced humanity.

[19:23] And there's kind of ego in that. And uh

[19:27] the god that I built speaks Chinese

[19:29] instead of English.

[19:30] >> That's the religious ego point.

[19:32] >> That's the ego.

[19:33] >> Such a great point because that's

[19:34] exactly what it is. It's like this

[19:35] religious ego where I will be

[19:36] transcendent in some way.

[19:38] >> And you notice that it it all starts by

[19:39] the belief that this is inevitable.

[19:41] >> Yeah.

[19:42] >> Which is like is this inevitable? It's

[19:44] important to note because

[19:47] if you believe it's if everybody who's

[19:49] building it believes it's inevitable and

[19:50] the investors funding it believe it's

[19:51] inevitable, it cocreates the

[19:54] inevitability.

[19:55] >> Yeah.

[19:55] >> Right.

[19:56] >> Yeah.

[19:57] >> And the only way out is to step outside

[20:00] the logic of inevitability because if if

[20:04] we are all heading to our collective

[20:05] suicide, which I don't know about you, I

[20:08] don't think that I don't want that. You

[20:10] don't want that. Everybody who loves

[20:12] life looks at their children in the

[20:13] morning and says,"I want I want the

[20:15] things that I love and that are sacred

[20:16] in the world to continue." That's what

[20:19] night that's what everybody in the world

[20:20] wants. And the only thing that is having

[20:24] us not anchor on that is the belief that

[20:26] this is inevitable and the worst case

[20:27] scenario is somehow in this ego

[20:29] religious way not so bad if I was the

[20:32] one who accidentally wiped out humanity

[20:34] because I'm not a bad person because it

[20:36] was inevitable anyway. M

[20:37] >> and I think the goal of of for me this

[20:40] conversation is to get people to see

[20:42] that that's a bad outcome that no one

[20:43] wants and we have to put our hand on the

[20:46] steering wheel and turn towards a

[20:48] different future because we do not have

[20:50] to have a race to uncontrollable

[20:52] inscrutable powerful AIs that are by the

[20:55] way already doing all the rogue sci-fi

[20:57] stuff that we thought only existed in

[20:59] movies like blackmailing people uh being

[21:02] self-aware when they're being tested

[21:04] scheming and lying and deceiving to copy

[21:06] their own code to keep themselves

[21:07] preserved. Like the stuff that we

[21:09] thought only existed in sci-fi movies is

[21:11] now actually happening. And that should

[21:14] be enough evidence to say

[21:17] we don't want to do this path that we're

[21:19] currently on. It's not that

[21:22] some version of AI progressing into the

[21:24] world is directionally inevitable, but

[21:26] we get to choose which of those futures

[21:28] that we want to have. If you love the D

[21:30] CEO brand and you watch this channel,

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