Why WoW Lost Immersion: Full Breakdown & Transcript

[00:01] talk about today? Do you want to talk about why Wow doesn't feel as immersive anymore, Crendor? All right, let's let's predict what he's going to say. big. That's That's That's what he's going to say. The world is massive. Look

[00:17] how big it is. It's like You want a nice and small Oh, like you want like a a like a smaller Yeah. Well, I world immersive as it used to. And that's not to say that retail Wow isn't immersive.

[00:30] There's plenty of times I feel immersed in retail Wow. But there was something about classic Wow that really just It was like the pinnacle of immersion. Like you were in the Barrens. You felt like you were in Feralas. You felt like you

[00:43] different zones. And I think there's a few things that kind of played into that that classic Wow did that retail Wow doesn't do. Um and so I kind of want to cuz I wrote down a few bullet points of why

[00:59] I think all of this is. And so let's just jump right into it with just jump right into it with uh classic Wow is that slower RPG type of game. And you >> So, flying, pacing, and size. Those

[01:12] Those have got to be three really big ones. Flying, pacing, and size. are always like, "It's a slower RPG game." Some people don't like that. Some then the modern game is much more like action RPG. And while I think those are

[01:28] kind of great to compare and contrast, I think one big factor stands with these two, and that's friction. Right? And so Classic Wow is all about >> I I was I was thinking more about size, not friction. Like if it's too big, then

[01:44] into anyone else and see anyone. But friction, okay, I'm listening. >> And slowly either removing that friction or kind of like learning to appreciate that friction in a way. While retail WoW is

[01:58] much more about reducing all of the friction, like >> just reducing as much friction as possible in various ways. So, let me True. Yeah. >> Um it's like when people bring up

[02:12] In classic WoW, you had to walk everywhere. You know, you start out the you have to walk through the Barrens, you have to walk through all these places, right? That's That's friction. It's I want to be able to fly. I want to

[02:25] know, move faster and not have to do this. But by being forced to do that, it actually makes you stop and kind of be aware of your surroundings, right? Like when you're walking through a zone, you go, "Oh,

[02:39] there's these mobs over there. I need to be careful of those mobs. There's something over there I should go look at, right?" And you're you're always you're just moving through the zone. Now, you could just go on auto run and

[02:52] that's more of like once you kind of know the zone, right? But now in the around and that's it, right? You just fly over stuff and you're like, "Oh, is >> [laughter] >> And so, sure, there are you could fly

[03:09] >> So, like there there's two things I'm thinking about already. The first is that Angelica video yesterday, she was saying that like retail is is beautiful if you take the time to like slow down and look at each thing. It

[03:23] really is. But you're flying over it so fast that you might You don't even have the chance to really take it all in of like how beautiful it actually is cuz the pacing is so fast you don't actually see it. Um and then the second thing is

[03:35] Midnight launched, there was this whole community of people that were doing like a no mount challenge on retail. Or not even challenge, but like it was like a no mount movement on retail where they're like, "You know what? Let's just

[03:49] not use our mounts. The leveling is fast anyway. Let's actually just take it all in and I mean I didn't do this, but apparently like holy crap. Like you're actually just on the ground and like looking at

[04:02] actually really cool, right? So I feel like retail could have this if if you kind of just intentionally slow down, but It's 2026.

[04:16] anything. So I don't think it's on the gamer to say, okay, let's do you know, let's not fly, right? I think it would be on the game developer to

[04:28] say, okay, this is maybe taking away from the experience not adding. So >> Something and fly somewhere else and look at some That's what I do for Poil's top 10, honestly. Um but it does remove something, right? Like that that

[04:40] friction has been removed and you can kind of say the same thing for uh instances, right? It's why people go, oh, remember when you had to run to the instance and summon people and then go in, right? Versus just open your menu

[04:52] and it pops and you're in the dungeon, right? That's that's friction. You're removing that element of friction, which I think in return is a form of >> Breaks the immersion, yeah. >> And so that slow RPG feel I think plays

[05:07] into that because sure you have that source of friction of oh man, I have to get your movement abilities and you're like, hey, this is actually pretty nice. I can move a little faster, right? I can, you know, get around and explore a

[05:20] ground mount and you're like, okay, that was pretty cool and I saved up enough money and it gives you this sense of progression. And I think that's one of the biggest factors. It gives you the RPG progression system of like, I was

[05:34] slow, now I'm less slow, now I'm getting a lot faster and now I'm right? Or >> I mean, classic wow, it kind of sucks know what feels the best thing ever in classic wow?

[05:48] Getting on your mount at 40. You know, when you finally get it or you get that epic mount. Or even as a mage when you get blink or rogue when you get sprint. Or a warrior when you get like charge and intercept. It's like any type

[06:00] of mobility when you're used to just like don't don't don't don't It feels so good, but it can't feel good without then feeling bad. Right? You can't can't have that good feeling without the friction, without that bad kind of like

[06:14] slow clunky feeling for a while. Right? They come together. >> I mean, you could even play into like Burning Crusade. Like you started with ground mounts and then you eventually got flying even though it was very slow

[06:27] flying, right? It was all sources of friction that you remove by playing the game and just earning stuff. Now, another form of that I would say is the the old like arrows, right? Like you had to buy your arrows. You had to

[06:43] um you had to buy reagents to to do stuff. And while that is annoying, arrows. I got to go buy them." There is an element of immersion to that. Like, "Hey, I'm a hunter. I'm buying my arrows. I'm buying food. I'm feeding my

[06:56] And I don't think your pet should run away from not feeding it. Although, I get why they did it, I guess. Um but the those little things kind of bring you into the world. It makes you feel like again, you're role-playing. You're like,

[07:10] and I have my ammo." Right? And now it's just kind of like I'm a hunter. It's just I'm shooting my gun. I don't have to buy arrows or bullets or whatever. >> Do you for for all the hunter players out there,

[07:23] in classic plus would you guys want a quiver slot? Or are you die-hard classic "No, bro. I'll carry it with me in my backpack." I I feel like a quiver slot would make sense, right? Arrows and quivers are

[07:39] annoying. I feel like an extra quiver specific slot that hunters got would But Wait, hold on. Ones in the chat if you want the quiver, twos if you're like, "No, bro. No quiver for me. I don't need

[07:54] a quiver slot. I'll go OG." Okay, it's mainly ones. Okay. >> Again, that's a form of friction. It's a a little thing you have to do, but that little thing can add an element of immersion. Now, adding on to that, I

[08:07] would say that hardcore classic wild actually adds to that friction and immersion, right? Because now, if you mess up, you have to start all over again. So, you're you're trying to make these potions. Like, you're getting

[08:19] trying to increase your stats. You're making sure that everything is correct possible when you go out into the world so that you don't die because the the and you start over and you're like, "Oh my god, this is terrible, right?" And

[08:34] >> I mean, I think that's why hardcore brought wild back for so many of us is because you you went slow enough to actually get immersed again. Whereas in 2019, and I don't want to speak for everyone here, but for me, in 2019, it

[08:50] was more about how fast can I hit 60, how fast can I ruin the experience for same dungeon to in- increase my experience per hour. And then in 2019, when classic relaunched, I wasn't immersed at all. I just

[09:05] min-maxed the fun out of the game for myself and still fun, I guess. Or I mean, I I I I had a lot of fun in 2019, too, but with first time I actually got immersed again since I was a kid, you know? I was like,

[09:19] I had to go so slow to not die and I did die a lot, so it's like cool. >> That becomes very immersive because now, you're just like it's essentially real life in the game. Um and I think that's one of the reasons

[09:31] that classic wild is also so much fun is you're you're hitting like max levels of friction at that point cuz you know if you die you start over and then in retail wow or even just normal classic wow or whatever if you die you just

[09:44] you're like whatever I just keep going. Now that brings me to my next point which is the musical immersion and the musical immersion is one of my favorite parts of playing wow like when you play classic wow and you hear that ambient

[09:58] Barrens or in a forest wherever it might be it really hits like it makes you feel like you're in that zone you're a part of the world and sometimes it gives you listening to music it's almost like you're just there and then the music

[10:13] belongs there and I think that >> I will say that retail has had some pretty banger songs and non-classic has like Grizzly Hills I'm thinking of right like Grizzly Hills I'm thinking of right like when you go TBC wrath Cata mop

[10:28] I mean I a lot of it is maybe nostalgia like I love the classic music man like like yeah just starting a new character in Elwynn like it's just so nice but at the same time I'm not going to say that retail doesn't have some bangers too.

[10:42] I I you know I I will give you know it is maybe not my cup of tea on a lot of the macro stuff but with the music and and some of like the the landscapes and the the sunsets and some of the art like in the game is like awesome.

[10:55] I have I have my other things that we talked about a lot of it is pretty good. powerful cuz I always have the music on just really any video game but especially wow and that's not to say

[11:07] retail doesn't have that because there's actually a lot of times in retail wow I felt very immersed from the music like the the Undermine honestly places like Zul'dazar Drustvar

[11:20] even like the the Isle of Dorn had some really good music at times like there wow that is immersive but I think classic World of Warcraft just had it was like the perfect amount and it was like every zone just felt perfect.

[11:34] like to me classic World of Warcraft music is almost like the pinnacle of phenomenal. And so >> How much of this cuz like I agree with him but like how much of this is because I mean I'm assuming Krendor grew up

[11:47] playing wow. I grew up playing wow. How much of this is just cuz we grew up playing wow? Like you hear it and it just it's just like that you can't even help the nostalgia bias. It's like you can't even help. It's like dude, I

[11:59] and it's just bringing me back, you know? It's like just so it's like aw. You can't even help it. It's just like aw. You know? Oh, Grace with the raid. Guys Grace, I'm I'm thinking about the Doom

[12:14] Howl hardcore character Nax experience. I talked to Ampy. Ampy's still down. So try to figure out how that would happen but I It's up here right now, okay? >> I think that is also another element of

[12:29] of zones, that actually brings me to my next point which is sometimes in retail wow going to zones can pull you out of that immersion because you get kind of warped back to periods that have already happened. And so let's say I'm going to

[12:44] Booty Bay as a great example, right? And I see the goblins just repairing Booty Bay and I'm like man, it's been like what? 16, 17 years of the goblins repairing Booty Bay? And sure you could make the argument like they're they're

[12:59] like actual construction. They're taking forever to get it done. But there is something to that to where you see a lot of these old thing. For example, like Stonetalon Mountains. When you go there, there's like the big war going on with

[13:11] you're like this already happened. And so obviously the the logistical real life part of you kicks in is like yeah, you know, this is an older expansion, right? Like they're going to update it eventually, hopefully.

[13:25] there's that's still something that takes you out of the game, right? Like, you have to go you have to get out of the game mindset to realize that and be like, you know, this is just an old expansion cuz you're if you're playing

[13:39] weird. Like, what's going on? This happened 15 years ago. Why is this still occurring in the zone, right? And classic loud doesn't have that because it's just all static. Like, it's it's classic wild. The zones are the way they

[13:53] are. It like >> This actually brings up a good point. In classic plus, say it goes for a long time, would they then update some of these zones to make it look like they've been updated? Oh, thanks, babe. I got to

[14:07] start Factor meals here for lunch. You know, because if you if you're if you're obviously things like Booty Bay would never get repaired or Stonetalon. But, those to eventually get repaired? But, if you did repair them, then it would

[14:21] classic again. I never thought about that. Cuz if they change the world, it could be like a cataclysm scenario where they change the world and it's worse and that sucks, right? That sucks.

[14:35] that. Like, you know, >> pull you out of a zone when you go there and things have already been completed and you're just like, yeah, I don't >> that's the way it is, right? And now having said that, retail does do a lot

[14:50] of stuff well, right? Like, raiding and mythic plus and collecting pets and right? I love doing all that stuff. I think it's fun. mythic plus. It's not my thing. I'm bad at the game.

[15:03] But, sometimes it almost feels like there's too much to do and that can kind of take you out of it. For an example, when I logged in for this past patch, I got to the new zone with all the

[15:17] like, this is pretty cool, right? And I was going through and I got it all done and I was like, well that's that. And it didn't really feel like I immersed myself in this new patch zone. It didn't really feel like I was like, whoa, I'm

[15:31] like I'm in the game right now and I'm loving the aesthetic. Like I I thought great, but I didn't feel immersed in the zone. And I realized that part of that is due to the way the game is currently structured. So, we have things like

[15:46] weeklies, we have dailies, we have all these different currencies. And so, when like, all right, where do I go? And there's like a billion quests all over patch. And I was like, okay, here's a quest, but is this quest for the new

[16:02] people in chat were like, Kraydor, what are you talking about? It's from the the previous patch and like this one I'm like, the I played this game and I'm >> Like imagine a new player going here trying to be like, hey, a new patch. And

[16:16] there's like stuff all over the place. Like it it pulls you out. Again, like I'm talking about immersion here. And from a immersive standpoint, being in quest is which and like dailies and weeklies and stuff and I'm like,

[16:30] like what am I even doing here? >> Yeah, I I mean I I play I play a lot of wow. Um, and for me this moment was in retail when I tried to figure out retail when I tried to figure out how to craft an item using the crafting

[16:44] table where you have to like hire someone else to make an item for you, but you have to get all the right quality of materials, but it can't be from trade chat to do it cuz it has to be RNG in a certain quality or else it's

[16:58] not going to be high enough and then you have to Oh, Oh my dude, that was the one thing that I was just like, what? It was like once I figured it out, I mean, to be honest, even when I

[17:11] tough. >> Like, why why is this happening? And it's just it's it's almost overwhelming. And it it feels like when I do that type of stuff, I'm doing chores rather than immersing myself in the game and just

[17:26] like experiencing the game. And I think that's my biggest issue with modern WoW pull up my my chore list and like check stuff off. Like, "Did I do my weekly? Did I do my daily? Did I do my dungeon? Did I do

[17:41] list and you're just checking. And sure, classic WoW, you can still you can still make an argument to say that you do do that. At level 60, did I get my song flower? Did I get my DMF? Did I get my

[17:55] DMT, right? Did I farm enough gold to buy my potions, checklist. The difference is in classic WoW, it just takes so long to get there there and then quitting and then saying, "Wow, that was fun." Or getting there

[18:10] quitting and think, "Wow, that was fun." The difference is in retail is you hit max level so quick and it becomes chore simulator basically right away. Like, say you start playing retail right now, you hit max level in say a week or

[18:22] and then you're max level and it becomes a chore simulator expansion. Whereas in in classic WoW, you might have this leveling journey that lasts like month or two or three and then like

[18:36] level, the the pre-bis grind just takes so long a chore list. Like, most people maybe even never even get there. Or if you do get there, you have fun doing it for a little bit before wanting to not play

[18:49] anymore. So, it's like it's just a timeline is stretched, right? >> You can kind of do that in classic WoW. yourself of like, "Here's the things I have to do." But it's not the game kind

[19:02] of telling you what to do. And I so and so when you do that, I think the immersive part of just going into the world and being like, "What am I going you're just a part of it. One of the things I love about Classic WoW is

[19:15] the world, and you're going on the hero's journey. And you're just trying you're you start out, you're just some person, and then you play through the world, you go through the world, and you kind of earn your stripes, and you earn

[19:30] know what? And now you are like a a pretty important part of this world. Now you are becoming a hero." And I think I think the weird part about retail WoW that kind of pulls me out of that

[19:43] immersion aspect is they're like, "It's you, champion, the chosen one." And it's like, "Yeah, I mean, I guess. I've been playing for It's like, all right, yeah. But then somebody's been playing for like 5 years

[19:57] been playing for like 3 months can also be at the same tier of you. And they're just like, "You're the chosen one, man. Like, you're going to save the world and help help Azeroth and all this stuff." And then you're like, "Okay." And then

[20:11] friend's like, "No, wait, I'm the chosen one. I'm going to save Azeroth." >> So, I've thought a lot about this exact thing because um we played RuneScape last year. And in RuneScape, it's the opposite, right? If you've been playing

[20:24] for 10 years on an account, you're going to be so far ahead of anyone else. So, let's say your friend makes a new character, and they want to play with And then it's an Ironman account or something.

[20:38] Like, they're going to be like literally years behind you to catch up. Which which which can be negative in a sense of like, well, it's harder to them if if you want to bring them into the hard content that you're doing, it

[20:52] might be literally years before you can do that. But the positive of that is means something. Not a a new player can't just be on that same level right away. Class uh World of Warcraft retail is the

[21:05] opposite. A new expansion comes out, and you could bring your friend in and play with them on the new content that next week or 2 weeks or whatever right away. Now, the upside is hey, you can bring in friends and play. Right? That is a very

[21:19] can bring your friends in from work or whatever and be like, all right, cool. We all We'll hit the raid together on this new patch. Awesome. The downside is it kind of just breaks the importance of anything cuz it's

[21:35] just Let's wait for next patch then cuz we're all just going to get reset back to the same gear score. I'll just wait for the next expansion actually cuz that's coming out soon. So, it kind of just makes the game feel watered down.

[21:48] play with other people. Personally, I kind of like the way RuneScape has done Right? That classic way of like you put in years, you're going to be years ahead of other people, but it is very gatekeepy in the sense. Like I will be

[22:00] honest, it's very gatekeepy at the point where like into it cuz it's like, okay, well, you're just going to be years behind >> Some other guy's like, wait, you two are I'm the hero. I'm going to save Azeroth.

[22:12] And so, it just becomes like that it it almost feels like the gear argument where if every if everybody's a hero, then like nobody's a hero. Or if everybody's like a chosen champion

[22:25] hero, I guess I guess I should say cuz like everybody's a hero technically. Um it it's kind of like the epics, right? If if everybody has epic gear, it's not >> Like if everybody has the same gear, it's just common gear. It's just they

[22:39] that's epic. And I think a lot of the lore that ties into the world-ending threats every expansion plays into that. Like we need the ultimate hero champion to save the world, right? And that it it almost like amplifies that need of you

[22:55] wanting to be this big hero. And like to me personally, it just becomes this important person in all of Azeroth or the hero of the world. Like I just want world. And that doesn't mean I have to be a blacksmith or whatever, but you

[23:09] know, like some little guy living in a house somewhere, but like I just I want to just be part of the world. >> I wonder if Gibe watched or sorry, I wonder if Crendor watched Gibe cuz Gibe released a video like 2 weeks ago

[23:22] talking about this same thing. This was from 6 days ago. Very, very, very similar topic that Gibe touched on of like, wait a minute, of like compared retail and classic a

[23:35] >> in some way that isn't the most important person in the world. And I experience. And there might be other people that like like being the champion of hard to even dodge that at this point cuz we have killed Titans, we've killed

[23:50] Arthas, we've killed like Illidan, we've killed all these heroes and everything. So we technically are like these insane champions, but I just hope they figure out a way to just knock it down a few pegs. You know

[24:02] >> it like it really does pull you out of it um when everybody else is also a hero just yeah, like I said, if everyone's the hero, nobody's the hero. Now with wrap this up with one of my favorite parts of retail WoW in terms of

[24:18] immersion, and that's a lot of the community events or holiday stuff because um much like the soup event with the Tuskarr, it's not the most important event. It's nothing crazy, right? You're

[24:31] just helping a Tuskarr chef make soup, but it was one of my favorite parts of Dragonflight. Like you just show up at the Tuskarr area and they're just like, pot of soup. And they're just stirring it up and everyone's contributing and

[24:44] else like contributing. You're like, dude, this is so fun, right? Like everyone's working together and it creates that sense of like immersion in the world and community. And you're you're all helping the Tuskarr make this

[24:56] everybody come eat it, right?" Those are some of my favorite events, like even Dream. I enjoyed doing that and I'm sure there's people that didn't enjoy doing it, but uh like those were some of my favorite events. And so, it's one of the

[25:10] things like Brewfest that everybody's gathered around at the festival and everyone's, you know, drinking and running around and it's like

[25:22] right? And so, I I really love those types of things cuz it makes it feel feel like everybody's out and about, they're doing their thing, and, you not saving the world, but we're just living in the world of Warcraft. And so,

[25:37] it actually gets really depressing or kind of sad or eerie to me even when I go to something like Brewfest and it it's a it's like an empty server or just the end of Brewfest, people have already gotten all their stuff, and you're just

[25:50] empty. And I'm just kind of like, um I guess I'll get a beer do my ram racing. It's just you walking around alone. Maybe one person like runs by and it's just like

[26:04] "Okay." Like that that's another thing that just pulls for everyone to kind of like come together. So, like I agree. The events that do that are awesome. I remember that classic event that happened like a

[26:18] Jeez, was it like a year ago? Maybe 2 years ago now? For the 20th WoW anniversary, there was like the classic WoW event on retail, and there was so many people there doing their thing. It was awesome, right? But a lot of the

[26:31] retail, if you're like I I'd say the worst part is if you're leveling a new character in retail, you don't really area. You'll see a few people, and then like 15 minutes in, you'll get phased

[26:44] and you won't see anyone. Like like that kills me. But I guess like the the end cities in retail are populated um quite populated. And then a lot of people outside, and like the new areas, there's people outside, and the events,

[26:57] leveling in the old areas, I mean, it's too It's impossible, cuz the world is so big. Can't have everything populated, but, uh, >> be out of the immersion, cuz I'm like, where are the people at? Like, is the

[27:09] game dying? Like, it like that really does pull me out. So, the the main point I'm trying to get at here with everything that I've gotten at there's a lot of different things that make up immersion, and some of them

[27:24] others, and some of them maybe even impact certain people more than others, right? Like, some people might feel very immersed when they're doing all these doing these things, and other people might not feel immersed at all. I'd say

[27:38] it's also a very subjective type of thing to, you know, deal with. Like, different things that immerse them into a world, but, uh, at the end of the day, I think most people want to be immersed in the world, and most people want to

[27:52] live in the world and feel like they're a part of this world, and it really can pull you out of it when so many of these little things add up, and it hits a not feeling that sense of immersion? And I think all of these little things going

[28:08] you feel immersed or not feel immersed, really do add up and change how you uh, yeah, I just want to make that video and rant about immersion, cuz it's been a topic that's just been on my head for a while. So, thanks for watching. If you

[28:23] pointless top 10 burning buildings in WoW. If you want to see that, I celebrate the Midsummer Fire Festival. Or, I did a dumb tier list ranking a bunch of different best and worst WoW class ideas, even though, uh, I doubt

[28:36] any of them will come to fruition. So, thanks for watching, and I'll see you >> Dude, Crendor has sick videos, pointless top 10s, I love it. Um, this video went Um, for me, I feel like I thought that they

[28:52] flying, which he didn't really talk about. Transmog, which he didn't really talk about. Um, layering, facing, right? He didn't some of the big points for me. When you

[29:05] layered away, when someone flies above you, when someone's transmogged to look like they're in their pajamas, it's like all of these break the immersion, other one that we talked about? Like, pacing, right? When when you're going

[29:19] pacing, right? When when you're going too fast, like these are probably like Very, very, very massive in terms of breaking the feeling of like I am just [snorts] solid video there from Krendor. Give

[29:34] solid video there from Krendor. Give that one a thumbs up.