Why Classic WoW Feels More Immersive Than Retail

[00:00] Now, I encountered this video out there

[00:02] in the wild, why World of Warcraft

[00:04] doesn't feel as immersive anymore. I

[00:06] don't know how this dude made a

[00:07] 17-minute video, but there's only one

[00:11] answer. The game is too damn fast.

[00:13] >> Today I want to talk about why World of

[00:15] Warcraft doesn't feel as immersive as it

[00:17] used to. And that's not to say that

[00:19] retail WoW isn't immersive. There's

[00:20] plenty of times I feel immersed in

[00:22] retail WoW.

[00:23] >> The only time you feel immersed in

[00:25] retail WoW is when you rage quit and go

[00:27] outside to touch grass. That is the only

[00:30] way to feel immersed, because you're

[00:31] immersing yourself in the real world

[00:32] rather than the garbage that is called

[00:34] retail.

[00:35] >> But there was something about classic

[00:36] WoW that really just

[00:38] >> That's what he meant, I think.

[00:39] >> pinnacle of immersion. Like when you

[00:41] played the game, you felt like you were

[00:42] in the Barrens. You felt like you were

[00:44] in Feralas. You felt like you were in

[00:45] Tanaris, right? All these different

[00:47] zones. And I think there's a few things

[00:49] that kind of play into that that classic

[00:51] WoW did that retail WoW doesn't do. Um

[00:55] and so I kind of want to just go over

[00:56] some of those things today cuz uh I

[00:58] wrote down a few bullet points of why I

[01:01] think all of this is. And so, let's just

[01:03] jump right into it with uh classic WoW

[01:06] is that slower RPG type of game. And you

[01:09] hear this all the time, right? People

[01:11] >> There you go.

[01:12] There you can end the video right here.

[01:14] You called it. Man, he's right. True and

[01:17] real. Very, very based. Now, I don't

[01:20] know how he's going to elaborate on

[01:22] that, but I think he's going to go into

[01:24] more fine details because

[01:26] the game the game needs to slow down is

[01:29] like it's the root of all things. So, I

[01:31] guess he's just going to see how it

[01:34] went, right? Just you talk about all the

[01:36] little stuff. I appreciate that.

[01:38] >> WoW is like it's a slower RPG game. Some

[01:40] people don't like that. Some people like

[01:42] this is boring. And then the modern game

[01:44] is much more like action RPG. And

[01:48] while I think those are kind of great to

[01:49] compare and contrast, I think one big

[01:52] factor stands with these two, and that's

[01:54] friction.

[01:55] Right? And so,

[01:57] classic WoW is all about friction and

[02:00] slowly either removing that friction or

[02:04] kind of like learning to appreciate that

[02:06] friction in a way. While retail WoW is

[02:09] much more about reducing

[02:12] all of the friction like

[02:14] >> [laughter]

[02:15] >> just reducing as much friction as

[02:17] possible in various ways. So, let me

[02:19] give you some ex-

[02:20] >> It's teleporting you to the mountain top

[02:22] without needing to climb. That's what

[02:24] he's trying to say. Absolutely, he's

[02:26] 100% right. And that's exactly why

[02:29] people don't like retail. I mean, I

[02:32] listen, if someone is going to pull the

[02:33] 9 million players argument like don't,

[02:37] okay? We've been over this too many

[02:38] times. It's 9 million bots. Enough,

[02:41] okay? You can't be that stupid. You

[02:44] can't believe it. Please, just oh my

[02:46] god, like these type of people. I

[02:48] already know I'm going to get that

[02:49] comment.

[02:49] >> examples, right? Um, it's like when

[02:51] people bring up walking versus flying.

[02:54] In Classic WoW, you had to walk

[02:55] everywhere. You know, you start out the

[02:57] game, you have to walk through Durotar,

[02:58] you have to walk through the Barrens,

[03:00] you have to walk through all these

[03:01] places, right? That's that's friction.

[03:03] It's I want to be able to fly. I want to

[03:05] be able to get my mount and just, you

[03:07] know, move faster and not have to do

[03:08] this.

[03:09] >> And stuff happens while you're walking,

[03:11] by the way. That's why flying is so

[03:13] frowned upon these days because people

[03:15] know like flying completely deteriorated

[03:18] the friction of the game. It didn't even

[03:19] deteriorate it, it just deleted it. So,

[03:22] yeah, there was ba- barely any friction.

[03:24] If you played retail, I played it

[03:26] unfortunately, my condolences, right?

[03:28] Um,

[03:29] it's so bad. You have dragon flying,

[03:32] it's cool, it's fast, you go from A to B

[03:35] in a matter of seconds, but you don't

[03:37] really play the game. You're playing a

[03:39] solo game. It's definitely not an MMO or

[03:41] at least it doesn't feel like it.

[03:43] >> But by being forced to do that, it

[03:45] actually makes you

[03:48] stop and kind of be aware of your

[03:50] surroundings, right? Like when you're

[03:51] walking through a zone, you go, "Oh,

[03:53] there's these mobs over there. I need to

[03:55] be careful of those mobs. There's

[03:57] There's a city over there that I need to

[03:59] actually go look at." And

[04:01] you're you're always looking around and

[04:03] being aware cuz you're just moving

[04:04] through the zone. Now, you could just go

[04:05] on auto run and be like, "Whatever."

[04:07] But,

[04:08] that's more of like once you kind of

[04:10] know the zone, right? But, now in the

[04:12] game, you just get flying and you fly

[04:14] around and that's it, right? You just

[04:16] fly over stuff and you're like, "Oh, is

[04:17] that something I need to look at?" I

[04:19] don't even know, right?

[04:20] >> [laughter]

[04:20] >> And so, sure, there are you could fly

[04:23] around and stop and look at something

[04:25] and fly somewhere else and look at some

[04:27] That's what I do for Poile's top 10,

[04:28] honestly.

[04:29] But, it does remove something, right?

[04:31] Like that that friction has been removed

[04:33] and you can kind of say the same thing

[04:35] for

[04:36] instances, right? It's why people go,

[04:38] "Oh, remember when you had to run to the

[04:39] instance and summon people and then go

[04:41] in, right?" Versus just open your menu

[04:44] and click do dungeon, get into a queue,

[04:46] and it pops and you're in the dungeon,

[04:47] right? That's That's friction. You're

[04:49] removing that element of friction, which

[04:51] I think in return is a form of

[04:53] immersion.

[04:55] And so, that slow RPG feel, I think

[04:58] plays into that because sure, you have

[05:00] that source of friction of, "Oh, man, I

[05:02] have to walk everywhere. It's slow."

[05:04] But, then you get your movement

[05:05] abilities and you're like, "Hey, this is

[05:07] actually pretty nice. I can move a

[05:08] little faster, right? I can, you know,

[05:11] get

[05:11] >> Such a great point. He made such a

[05:13] fantastic point there because you used

[05:15] to have solution for such problem and it

[05:18] always felt good whenever you achieve

[05:21] that. Same thing goes for the mount

[05:23] itself, by the way. Like the normal

[05:24] mount, not TBC flying mounts. If we're

[05:26] talking strictly vanilla, the moment you

[05:28] hit 40 and you manage to save up the

[05:30] gold for that first mount, boy, you feel

[05:34] that change immediately.

[05:36] It's crazy and I'm not even going to

[05:38] bother mentioning the epic mount, which

[05:40] is 10 times faster, right? It's so crazy

[05:42] good. And the only reason that you

[05:44] appreciate it is because you get it at

[05:46] level 40. In Ascension World of

[05:48] Warcraft, which is a private server, you

[05:50] get you get your first mount for, you

[05:53] know, classic plus, right? You you get

[05:55] it I think level four or something like

[05:58] that. And it's horrible. It's one of the

[06:00] things that I hated about the server.

[06:02] They've completely made me just

[06:04] not tolerate it, to say the least,

[06:06] because it completely skipped the entire

[06:08] premise of classic. Classic needs to be

[06:11] slow. That's the definition for classic

[06:14] that I think most people hold.

[06:16] >> around and explore a little bit better,

[06:17] then you get your ground mount.

[06:19] >> Yeah. As a Guild Wars 2 player, I tried

[06:21] to play WoW and I didn't even leave the

[06:22] tutorial. Man, do you have any idea how

[06:25] many WoW players are saying the same

[06:26] about Guild Wars 2?

[06:28] >> You're like, "Okay, that was pretty

[06:29] cool." And I saved up enough money and

[06:30] it gives you this sense of progression.

[06:32] >> And I think that's one of the biggest

[06:34] factors. It It gives you the RPG

[06:37] progression system of like, "I was slow.

[06:40] Now I'm less slow.

[06:42] Now I'm getting a lot faster and now I'm

[06:43] going fast cuz I got my epic mount,

[06:45] right?" Or I mean, you could even play

[06:47] into like Burning Crusade. Like you

[06:48] started with ground mounts and then you

[06:50] eventually got flying, even though it

[06:52] was very slow flying, right? It was all

[06:54] sources of friction that you remove by

[06:57] playing the game and just earning stuff.

[07:00] Now, another form of that, I would say,

[07:02] is the the old like arrows, right? Like

[07:05] you had to buy your arrows. You had to

[07:08] um you had to buy reagents to to do

[07:12] stuff. And while that is annoying,

[07:13] right? You're like, "Oh, I ran out of

[07:14] arrows. I got to go buy them." There is

[07:16] an element of immersion to that. Like,

[07:18] "Hey, I'm a hunter. I'm buying my

[07:20] arrows. I'm buying food. I'm feeding my

[07:22] pet." Right? All these different things.

[07:24] And I don't think your pet

[07:25] >> And also, it made one legendary bow

[07:29] extremely

[07:31] cool. I Oh, man, I forgot the name. Was

[07:34] it Quel' No, wait. What

[07:36] Oh my god. The bow name just slipped my

[07:39] mind. It was the cool hunter bow from

[07:40] the raid. Ah, damn it. Any anyone

[07:43] members? I literally forgot the name.

[07:45] I'll check it out. I'll check it out

[07:46] after. My bad. I It completely slipped

[07:48] my mind. I even remember some of the

[07:50] flavor text. You're like, pull this ring

[07:52] back and like an arrow conjure something

[07:55] like Rock Delar. Thank you. Thank you,

[07:57] my brother. Yeah, exactly. For some

[07:59] reason I remembered it from Hearthstone.

[08:01] I don't know why. The image just popped

[08:03] to my mind. Never mind that. But yeah,

[08:05] exactly. It was so cool, right? It was

[08:09] amazing and you can only have this type

[08:12] of weapon if you have arrows. So, I

[08:14] really wish they bring arrows back.

[08:16] Maybe not the same way where you have

[08:17] like, you know, infinite stacks clogging

[08:19] up your bag, but in some sort of a

[08:22] different way. I really wish arrows

[08:24] would make a comeback.

[08:25] >> I should run away from that feeling.

[08:26] >> And also, I really wish it would come

[08:27] back in a form of you can upgrade arrows

[08:30] and you can equip different arrows. I

[08:32] think that would be cool like equipping

[08:33] poison arrows, equipping uh enchanted

[08:36] arrows, something like that that is

[08:38] unique to hunter.

[08:39] >> I think it will. Although, I get why

[08:40] they did it, I guess. Um

[08:42] >> Surely Blizzard will take the mental and

[08:43] do that.

[08:44] >> kind of bring you into the world. It

[08:46] makes you feel like again, you're

[08:48] role-play. You're like, I am a hunter. I

[08:49] have bought my ammo and I have my ammo,

[08:52] right? And now it's just kind of like,

[08:53] I'm a hunter. It's just I'm shooting my

[08:55] gun. I don't have to buy arrows or

[08:57] bullets or whatever. And so,

[08:59] again, that's a form of friction. It's a

[09:01] a little thing you have to do, but that

[09:04] little thing can add an element of

[09:06] immersion. Now, adding on to that, I

[09:08] would say that hardcore classic wow

[09:10] actually adds to that friction and

[09:12] immersion, right? Because now, if you

[09:14] mess up

[09:14] >> Yeah, I was about to say Quel'Delar.

[09:16] >> So, you're you're trying to make these

[09:18] potions. Like, you're getting potions to

[09:20] buff your stuff up. You're trying to

[09:21] increase your stats. You're making sure

[09:23] that everything is correct and you're

[09:24] going to be as strong as possible when

[09:26] you go out into the world so that you

[09:27] don't die because

[09:29] the the ultimate level of friction is

[09:31] you die and you start over and you're

[09:32] like, oh my god, this is terrible,

[09:34] right? And so, that becomes very

[09:36] immersive because now you're just like

[09:39] it's essentially real life in the game.

[09:41] Um

[09:43] and I think that's one of the reasons

[09:44] that classic WoW is also so much fun is

[09:47] you're you're hitting like max levels of

[09:49] friction at that point cuz you know if

[09:51] you die you start over. And then in

[09:53] retail WoW or even just normal classic

[09:55] WoW or whatever, if you die you just

[09:57] respond and there's no friction there.

[09:59] You're like, "Whatever, I just keep

[10:00] going." Now, that brings me to my next

[10:01] point which is the musical immersion and

[10:04] the musical immersion is one of my

[10:06] favorite parts of playing WoW. Like when

[10:08] you play classic WoW and you hear that

[10:10] ambient music wherever you are like in

[10:12] the barrens or in a forest or wherever

[10:14] it might be, it really hits. Like it

[10:16] makes you feel like you're in that zone,

[10:18] you're a part of the game and sometimes

[10:20] it it gives you that feeling of you're

[10:22] not even listening to music. It's almost

[10:24] like you're just there and then

[10:26] >> I love this guy. Nah, this guy this guy

[10:29] is a G. He knows what's up. He knows

[10:31] what's up. No, that's absolutely true. I

[10:35] played, unfortunately, Season of

[10:36] Discovery just a couple of days ago.

[10:39] Even though I quit because it's just

[10:41] same lame rehashed garbage.

[10:43] I I loved leveling in the barrens so

[10:46] much, dude. It's just the music. It

[10:48] truly feels like you're there. Even on

[10:51] stream, which is very difficult to

[10:53] disconnect yourself from like, you know,

[10:55] try to imagine you're from a streamer

[10:57] perspective. I mean, you know, minus the

[10:59] doing crimes on Twitch and all that

[11:01] stuff. Just imagine you're a streamer.

[11:02] You need to be on chat and in the game.

[11:06] You need to kind of split your

[11:07] attention. Bro, I completely lost myself

[11:10] in the game and I went silent for like

[11:13] minutes on end, right? Sometimes even an

[11:15] hour I barely speak because I just I get

[11:18] immersed killing quillboars. That's

[11:21] insane. And only World of Warcraft can

[11:23] pull me this this way. No other game has

[11:27] managed to do that. Literally no other

[11:30] game. And it's all due to the music.

[11:32] It's so good. And I will say

[11:35] you know, to retail credit, I don't

[11:37] think the music has dropped off

[11:39] significantly. I still think that retail

[11:41] World of Warcraft music is still kind of

[11:43] good. I did enjoy midnight music. It

[11:45] wasn't as good as let's say Warlords of

[11:47] Draenor. Warlords of Draenor music was

[11:49] top tier in my opinion. I still listen

[11:50] to the soundtrack. Or Pandaria. Pandaria

[11:52] was goated. Even BFA had some really

[11:55] good tunes. But it was good. It was

[11:58] still good.

[11:58] >> The music belongs there. And I think

[12:00] that's

[12:01] something that's like really powerful.

[12:02] Cuz I always have the music on when I'm

[12:04] playing

[12:05] just really any video game, but

[12:07] especially WoW. And that's not to say

[12:09] retail doesn't have that because there's

[12:10] actually a lot of times in retail WoW

[12:12] I've felt very immersed from the music.

[12:14] Like the the Undermine, honestly.

[12:17] Places like Zuldazar.

[12:19] >> Yeah, but the problem is you have seven

[12:21] different NPCs yapping in your ear about

[12:24] irrelevant garbage. Like that is the

[12:26] problem. It's like, oh, okay, I'm about

[12:28] to be immersed and then it's like eight

[12:30] different RP sessions that you didn't

[12:33] ask for. Just the unsolicited advice of

[12:36] Jaina and Thrall yapping in your ear.

[12:39] Nobody wants that. It completely screws

[12:41] up the immersion and that's why I'm

[12:43] always advocating for less RP in retail

[12:46] World of Warcraft.

[12:47] >> Drustvar.

[12:49] Even like the the Isle of Dorn had some

[12:51] really good music at times. Like there's

[12:53] a lot of good music in retail WoW that

[12:55] is immersive, but I think classic World

[12:57] of Warcraft just had

[12:59] it was like the perfect

[13:01] >> Classic had less noise.

[13:03] >> perfect. Like I think that's like to me

[13:05] classic World of Warcraft music is

[13:07] almost like the pinnacle of video game

[13:08] music. Like it's just phenomenal. And so

[13:11] I think that is also another element of

[13:13] why it felt so immersive. And speaking

[13:15] of zones, that actually brings me to my

[13:16] next point, which is sometimes in retail

[13:19] WoW going to zones can pull you out of

[13:21] that immersion because you get kind of

[13:23] warped back to periods that have already

[13:25] happened. And so let's say I'm going to

[13:29] Booty Bay as a great example, right? And

[13:31] I see the goblins just repairing Booty

[13:33] Bay and I'm like, man, it's been

[13:36] like what, 16, [laughter] 17 years of

[13:39] the goblins repairing Booty Bay?

[13:41] >> Yeah.

[13:41] >> And sure, you could make the argument

[13:43] like they're they're

[13:44] >> Don't worry, next expansion surely

[13:47] Gazlowe would come in and fix

[13:48] everything. That's okay. He's just uh

[13:50] too busy on drinking some elixirs.

[13:53] >> Like actual construction, they're taking

[13:54] forever to get to

[13:55] >> He's He's chugging noggenfogger elixir.

[13:57] >> that to where you see a lot of these old

[13:59] thing. For example, like Stonetalon

[14:01] Mountains. When you go there, there's

[14:02] like the big war going on with Garrosh

[14:05] and the Alliance and stuff and you're

[14:06] like, this already happened. And so,

[14:08] obviously, the the logistical real life

[14:12] part of you kicks in is like, yeah, you

[14:13] know, this is an older expansion, right?

[14:15] Like they're going to update it

[14:16] eventually hopefully.

[14:18] Uh and it's in No, it's just part of it.

[14:19] But, there's that's still something that

[14:22] takes you out of the game, right? Like

[14:24] you have to go You have to get out of

[14:26] the game mindset to realize that and be

[14:28] like, you know, this is just an old

[14:30] expansion cuz you're

[14:31] >> Exactly. Exactly. And let me add

[14:35] something on top of it. It's so weird

[14:37] that you go to

[14:40] Let me Let me think of a zone. Man, why

[14:43] why did Why was zone's name just escape

[14:45] my mind? Like if I I want to say

[14:48] Winterspring, but that's not when the

[14:49] one I I mean. Like the woods one, the

[14:51] one with the woods where the Alliance

[14:53] and the Horde fight. Like completely

[14:55] like Ashenvale. Oh, dude, what the hell

[14:57] is wrong with me today? Okay, so you go

[14:59] to Ashenvale and you see the Horde and

[15:02] the Alliance kind of fighting each other

[15:03] for resources. And then you go up and

[15:06] the story tells you that they're cool

[15:07] now, but they really aren't. And that's

[15:10] just confusing the hell out of you. It's

[15:13] so weird, it's inconsistent, and it's

[15:15] all due to Blizzard keeping piling on

[15:18] expansions on top of each other. Nothing

[15:20] in the old world makes sense anymore.

[15:22] And that's a huge problem that actually

[15:25] really really hurts the game long-term

[15:27] because you're getting no new players.

[15:28] New players can't immerse themselves

[15:30] inside of the world. They're losing

[15:32] their interest. They're dropping out

[15:34] quickly. And you're basically staying

[15:35] with the same old veterans over and over

[15:37] again. Eventually, you're going to run

[15:39] out of whales, right? I know right now

[15:41] it seems like an impossibility, but it

[15:44] will happen in a couple of years,

[15:46] surely.

[15:47] >> If you're playing in the game, you're

[15:48] just like, this is weird. Like, what's

[15:50] going on? This happened 15 years ago.

[15:52] Why is this still occurring in the zone,

[15:54] right? And classic wild doesn't have

[15:56] that because it's just all static. Like,

[15:59] it's it's classic wild. The zones are

[16:01] the way they are. It like it really does

[16:05] pull you out of a zone when you go there

[16:07] and everything's just kind of outdated

[16:08] and things have already been completed

[16:10] and you're just like, yeah, I don't

[16:11] know. It's

[16:13] that's the way it is, right? And now

[16:14] having said that, retail does do a lot

[16:17] of stuff well, right? Like rating and

[16:18] mythic plus and collect

[16:20] >> That's the only thing they're doing

[16:21] well. Everything else is trash. Okay, I

[16:25] I want to see I want to hear what he has

[16:27] to say here.

[16:27] >> thing pets and mounts and transmogs and

[16:29] all that stuff,

[16:30] >> That's the only stuff.

[16:32] >> Um well, actually, I don't really like

[16:34] mythic plus. It's not my thing. I'm bad

[16:35] at the game.

[16:36] Uh but sometimes it almost

[16:39] >> Okay, he literally said retail has a lot

[16:41] of things.

[16:42] And then he gave the three things that's

[16:45] going on for retail. Literally, there's

[16:48] nothing else good about retail save for

[16:51] mythic plus, rating, and collectibles.

[16:53] These are the only things that makes

[16:56] retail survive. Without them, retail's

[16:59] cooked. If you make classic plus with

[17:02] today current rating,

[17:04] people will never play retail again.

[17:06] >> feels like

[17:08] there's too much to do and that can kind

[17:10] of take you out of it. Um for example,

[17:13] when I logged in for this past patch,

[17:17] uh I got to the new zone with all the

[17:19] mushrooms all over and stuff and I was

[17:20] like, this is pretty cool, right? And I

[17:21] was going through and I got it all done

[17:24] and I was like, well, that's that. And

[17:27] it didn't really feel like I immersed

[17:29] myself in this new patch zone. It didn't

[17:31] really feel like I was like, whoa, I'm

[17:33] like I'm in the game right now and I'm

[17:35] loving the aesthetic. Like I I thought

[17:37] >> Why, you got a command prompt bug? Like

[17:39] why why weren't you immersed? Wait, your

[17:41] NPCs glitch through the mountains? I

[17:43] mean, hey, that's a Okay, wait, did you

[17:45] get the same dialogue three times in a

[17:47] row again? Oh, okay, maybe those things

[17:51] actually hurt immersion a little bit. I

[17:52] don't know. But hey, at least we have a

[17:55] pretty solid PTR, no? What do you say,

[17:57] guys? Blizzard would never finish a

[18:00] buggy PTR into live service game. No,

[18:03] they would never do that.

[18:05] >> The zone was cool.

[18:06] >> Never.

[18:06] >> I thought it looked great, but I didn't

[18:07] feel immersed in the zone. And I

[18:09] realized that part of that is due to the

[18:13] way the game is currently structured.

[18:15] So, we have things like weeklys, we have

[18:17] dailies,

[18:18] >> Yes.

[18:18] >> we have all these different currencies.

[18:20] >> Yes.

[18:21] >> When I wanted to go do the new zone, I

[18:23] was like, all right, where do I go? And

[18:25] there was like a million quests all over

[18:27] cuz I don't I didn't do much of the last

[18:29] patch and I was like, okay, here's a

[18:30] quest, but is this quest for the new

[18:32] patch or is this for the old patch? Then

[18:34] people in chat were like, Kraridor, what

[18:35] are you talking about? It's from the the

[18:37] previous patch and like this one I'm

[18:39] like I play this game and I'm confused.

[18:42] >> [laughter]

[18:43] >> That's so true. Oh my god, I'm pausing

[18:46] constantly in this video about this guy.

[18:48] He's just spitting fire and brimstone.

[18:50] That's crazy. Exactly. Dailies should be

[18:54] abolished, weeklys should be abolished,

[18:56] monthlys should be abolished. Everything

[19:00] in World of Warcraft that forces you to

[19:02] log in to the game on a weekly or daily

[19:05] basis should be gone. There is no such

[19:09] room for this in an MMORPG. I know that

[19:11] nowadays it's the meta and everyone's

[19:13] doing it. I don't want to see it in

[19:15] World of Warcraft, okay?

[19:17] >> Imagine a new player

[19:18] here trying to be like, "Hey, a new

[19:20] patch." And there's like stuff all over

[19:22] the place. Like it it pulls you out.

[19:24] Again, like I'm talking about immersion

[19:25] here. And from a immersive standpoint,

[19:28] being in the game trying to like figure

[19:29] out which quest is which and like

[19:31] dailies and weeklies and stuff. And I'm

[19:33] >> It's all technical.

[19:34] >> Like what am I even doing here? Like why

[19:36] why is this happening? And it's just

[19:37] it's it's almost overwhelming. And it

[19:40] >> It's not almost, it is.

[19:41] >> When I do that type of stuff, I'm doing

[19:43] chores rather than immersing myself in

[19:47] the game and just like experiencing the

[19:49] game. And I think that's my biggest

[19:50] issue with modern WoW is when I log in,

[19:53] it's like I have to pull up my my

[19:56] chore list and like check stuff off.

[19:58] Like did I do my weekly? Did I do my

[20:00] daily? Did I do my dungeon? Did I do it,

[20:03] right? And you're going down the list

[20:04] and you're just checking. And sure, you

[20:06] can kind of do that in classic WoW. Like

[20:08] you can make a checklist for yourself of

[20:09] like

[20:10] >> Here's the things I have to do.

[20:11] >> Of kill 10 quillboars? What what

[20:14] checklist you need in classic? Listen,

[20:16] even badges for dungeons weren't that

[20:18] big of a deal. Like yes, there were

[20:20] dailies, true. But I mean, once you got

[20:23] enough badges, you were kind of done

[20:25] with it. So, it's not that big of a deal

[20:27] in my opinion and you can afford to miss

[20:29] a day or two. It honestly wasn't that

[20:31] bad. So, this form of dailies was

[20:33] acceptable. I would still be happy if it

[20:35] was abolished, but

[20:38] this was okay. I guess it was fine. But

[20:42] no, these [ __ ] are right. These are

[20:44] chores. These are dark patterns. You

[20:47] don't want this in your games. This is

[20:49] something you do to grab the attention

[20:51] of whales and addicts. Basically, it

[20:54] completely turns away people such as

[20:56] myself because I'm not into that FOMO

[20:59] garbage, okay? I'm just too old for that

[21:01] [ __ ] I'm 28, dude. Like I literally had

[21:04] my birthday uh like what, three days

[21:06] ago? I'm old. I'm about to be bald, I

[21:09] had enough. Okay? I don't want any of

[21:11] this. I don't want to waste my time

[21:12] doing a checklist. I just want to have

[21:14] fun anymore as myself in a game that I

[21:15] love with a community that I appreciate.

[21:17] >> But it's not the game kind of telling

[21:19] you what to do. And I saw and so when

[21:21] you do that, I think

[21:23] the immersive part of just going into

[21:26] the world and being like, "What am I

[21:27] going to do in this world?" right? Like

[21:29] you're just a part of it. One of the

[21:30] things I love about Classic WoW is

[21:32] you're just another adventurer out in

[21:34] the world and you're going on the hero's

[21:35] journey. And you're just trying to make

[21:38] it in the world, right? Like you're you

[21:39] start out, you're just some person. And

[21:42] then you play through the world, you go

[21:43] through the world, and you kind of earn

[21:45] your stripes, and you earn your title,

[21:47] and it's like,

[21:48] >> I'm 28.

[21:49] >> And now you are like a a pretty

[21:51] important part of this world. Now you

[21:53] are becoming a hero. And I think I think

[21:57] the weird part about retail WoW that

[21:58] kind of pulls me out of that immersion

[22:00] aspect is

[22:02] they're like, "It's you, champion, the

[22:04] chosen one." And it's like, "Yeah, I

[22:06] mean, I guess. I've been playing for

[22:08] like 20 years, right?" It's like, "All

[22:10] right, yeah." But then somebody's been

[22:12] playing for like five years

[22:14] also gets the same treatment. Somebody

[22:15] who's been playing for like three months

[22:17] can also be at the same tier of you.

[22:20] >> No, that's not a real problem. The real

[22:21] problem is them calling you a champion

[22:23] and then you need to give them 10 bear

[22:25] asses. That's the problem. It's

[22:27] completely immersion breaking. And in

[22:29] the old World of Warcraft war world,

[22:31] sorry, you were a nobody. You just bunch

[22:35] yourself with another hoodlum, and you

[22:37] made progress together. Eventually, you

[22:40] teamed up with 39 more hoodlums, and you

[22:43] went to a raid. That's how it worked. It

[22:45] made sense, and it was beautiful. There

[22:48] was no reason whatsoever to change it

[22:50] into a single player where you are the

[22:52] sole hero of Azeroth. You're the one

[22:55] saving it. It's cringe. It's cringe

[22:58] self-insert millennial writing. Nobody

[23:01] likes that [ __ ] save for a few Blizzard

[23:03] employees. And you need to make sure

[23:06] that this is gone. Along with the

[23:08] employees, by the way. Just completely

[23:09] give the boot to Holly Longdale and the

[23:12] entire HR department.

[23:14] >> And they're just like, you're the chosen

[23:15] one, man. Like, you you're going to save

[23:18] Azeroth and all this stuff. And then

[23:19] you're like, okay, and then you talk to

[23:20] your friend and your friend's like, no,

[23:21] wait, I'm the chosen one. I'm going to

[23:23] save Azeroth.

[23:24] And some other guy is like, I'm going to

[23:26] save Azeroth.

[23:26] >> [laughter]

[23:27] >> We're all the chosen ones.

[23:29] >> I'm the hero. I'm going to save Azeroth.

[23:31] And so

[23:32] it just becomes like that.

[23:33] >> Yeah, for that reason I hated Legion

[23:35] artifacts. For For the sake of soul

[23:37] immersion, I think artifacts themselves

[23:39] as an idea were great. But like in terms

[23:42] of immersion, like, oh, you get an

[23:43] Ashbringer, you get an Ashbringer, it

[23:45] was not. Like it was way immersion

[23:47] breaking.

[23:48] It It was way too much.

[23:50] >> argument, where if everybody's a hero,

[23:52] then like nobody's a hero. Or

[23:56] if everybody's like a chosen champion

[23:58] hero, I guess I guess I should say.

[23:59] Because like everybody's a hero

[24:01] technically. Um it it's kind of like the

[24:03] epics, right? If If everybody has epic

[24:06] gear, it's not epic anymore. It's just

[24:07] common.

[24:09] Like if everybody has the same gear,

[24:10] it's just common gear. It's just they

[24:12] painted it purple and go like, yeah,

[24:13] that's epic. And I think a lot of the

[24:14] lore that ties into the world-ending

[24:17] threats every expansion plays into that.

[24:19] Like, we need the ultimate hero champion

[24:21] to save the world, right? And it almost

[24:24] like amplifies that need of you wanting

[24:28] to be this big hero. And like to me

[24:30] personally, it just becomes this thing

[24:31] of I don't want to be the most important

[24:33] person in all of Azeroth or the hero of

[24:35] the world. Like, I just want to be

[24:37] somebody that's a part of the world. And

[24:39] that doesn't mean I have to be a

[24:40] blacksmith or whatever, but

[24:42] >> Azeroth bleeds.

[24:44] >> She needs to be in a house somewhere.

[24:45] But like, I just I want to just be part

[24:47] of the world in some way

[24:48] >> It was so good.

[24:49] >> the most important person

[24:50] >> So good to laugh on.

[24:52] >> And I think that's just a much more

[24:53] immersive experience. And there might be

[24:55] other people that like like being the

[24:57] champion of Azeroth. That's fine. And

[24:59] it's kind of hard to even

[25:00] >> If they love it, just play a

[25:01] single-player game. MMO RPGs are not for

[25:03] you, son. Like if you love Magni yapping

[25:07] in your ear that you're the sole hero of

[25:09] Azeroth, dog, you're in the wrong game.

[25:12] Like this is not for you, okay? Like

[25:14] just go play something else. Go be the

[25:16] hero in whatever game you choose to be

[25:18] in. World of Warcraft is not your thing.

[25:21] >> And dodge that at this point cuz we have

[25:23] killed Titans. We've killed Arthas.

[25:25] We've killed like Illidan. We've killed

[25:26] all these heroes and everything. So we

[25:28] technically are like these insane

[25:30] champions, but I just hope they figure

[25:32] out a way to just knock it down a few

[25:35] pegs. You know what I mean? Cuz I'm just

[25:37] >> [laughter]

[25:37] >> It like it really does

[25:39] >> You can do it without completely nuking

[25:41] the current story. You cannot do that

[25:43] because it's gone too far. You've

[25:45] already done too much, and I don't think

[25:48] any reoccurring villain would make the

[25:50] cut. So I think Zovaal should kind of

[25:52] end the world with the last Titan, and I

[25:55] think classic plus should be the new

[25:57] standard. I think Blizzard does have a

[25:59] way out with this, and I really hope

[26:00] they would take that ticket.

[26:01] >> pull you out of it um

[26:04] when everybody else is also a hero and

[26:06] you're like, "I'm the hero." And it's

[26:07] just yeah, like I said, if everyone's

[26:09] the hero, nobody's the hero. Now with

[26:10] all that being said, I kind of want to

[26:12] wrap this up with one of my favorite

[26:13] parts of retail WoW in terms of

[26:15] immersion, and that's a lot of the

[26:17] community events or holiday stuff

[26:19] because

[26:20] >> Yes, he's talking about the Darkspear

[26:23] Trolls rainbow dash run. Yes, dude.

[26:26] Dude, I for some reason I missed it. I

[26:29] wish I was there. I wish I was there. I

[26:31] heard it was like it's great event.

[26:33] Wait, did it actually happen? I don't

[26:34] even know, you know. I I'm not been

[26:36] following up with the times, but uh

[26:38] people were excited for it. Yeah, for

[26:39] sure, for sure. There was a lot of

[26:41] discourse around it.

[26:42] >> Um much like the soup event with the

[26:44] Tuskarr, it's not the most important

[26:47] event. It's nothing crazy, right? It's

[26:49] just helping the the chef make soup, but

[26:52] it was one of my favorite parts of

[26:54] Dragonflight. Like you just show up at

[26:55] the Tuskarr area and they're just like,

[26:57] "Hey, come on down. We're making a big

[26:59] pot of soup." And they're just stirring

[27:00] it up and everyone's contributing and

[27:02] gathering stuff and you see everybody

[27:04] else like contributing. You're like,

[27:05] "Dude, this is so fun, right?" Like

[27:07] everyone's working together and it

[27:09] creates that sense of like immersion in

[27:11] the world and community and you're

[27:13] you're all helping the Tuskarr make this

[27:14] soup and they're just like, "Hey,

[27:16] everybody come eat it, right?" Those are

[27:17] some of my favorite events. Like even

[27:19] helping the ancients in the Emerald

[27:21] Dream. I enjoyed doing that and I'm sure

[27:23] there's people that didn't enjoy doing

[27:24] it but

[27:25] like those were some of my favorite

[27:26] events. And so, it's one of the reasons

[27:29] I love holidays where you have things

[27:30] like Brewfest and everybody's gathered

[27:32] around at the festival and everyone's,

[27:34] you know, drinking and running around

[27:36] and it's like

[27:38] more music that immerses you in,

[27:41] right? And so, I I really love those

[27:43] types of things cuz it makes it feel

[27:44] like the world is alive. It makes it

[27:46] feel like everybody's out and about.

[27:48] They're doing their thing and, you know,

[27:50] it's nothing groundbreaking. We're not

[27:52] saving the world, but we're just living

[27:53] in the world of Warcraft. And so, it

[27:55] actually gets really depressing. You're

[27:57] kind of sad or eerie to me even when I

[28:00] go to something like Brewfest and it's

[28:02] it's like an empty server or just

[28:04] nobody's there. Like maybe it's towards

[28:06] the end of Brewfest

[28:06] >> or it completely filled with bots. Yeah,

[28:09] don't forget about option number three

[28:11] there, which is the most likely one.

[28:13] >> cuz people have already gotten all their

[28:14] stuff and you're just like walking

[28:15] around. It's just empty.

[28:17] And I'm just kind of like,

[28:20] um I guess I'll

[28:21] get a beer or do my ram racing. It's

[28:24] just you walking around alone. Maybe one

[28:26] person like runs by and it's just like

[28:28] >> [laughter]

[28:29] >> and you're just like,

[28:30] "Okay." Like that that's another thing

[28:32] that just pulls me out of the immersion

[28:33] cuz I'm like, "Where are the people at?

[28:35] Like is the game dying?" Like it like

[28:37] that really does pull me out. So,

[28:40] I think

[28:41] the the main point I'm trying to get at

[28:43] here with everything that I've gotten at

[28:45] is

[28:47] there's a lot of different things that

[28:48] make up immersion and some of them

[28:50] impact the game I'd say more than others

[28:52] and some of them maybe even impact

[28:54] certain people more than others, right?

[28:55] Like some people might feel very

[28:58] immersed when they're doing all these

[28:59] like RPG elements like buying arrows or

[29:01] doing these things and other people

[29:02] might not feel immersed at all. I'd say

[29:04] it's also a very subjective type of

[29:07] thing to you know deal with like

[29:09] different

[29:09] >> He's absolutely right and that's what

[29:12] actually makes developing an MMO so

[29:14] difficult because you always have

[29:16] constant struggle balancing between

[29:19] immersion and

[29:21] gameplay, right? There's always this

[29:23] discussion Jeff Kaplan used to talk

[29:25] about it like way back in the day when

[29:27] he actually worked on World of Warcraft,

[29:29] right? You know the the famous quotes of

[29:32] dragons don't actually hide loot beneath

[29:34] their wings. Yeah, you know that's true,

[29:36] right? That's obviously. So I mean yeah,

[29:39] you always have that constant discussion

[29:41] but I think if Blizzard actually were

[29:44] talented and had some competent people,

[29:46] they would have managed to pull this off

[29:48] like they had back in the day.

[29:49] >> People are going to have different

[29:50] things that immerse them into a world

[29:52] but at the end of the day I think most

[29:55] people want to be immersed in the world

[29:57] and most people want to live in the

[29:59] world and feel like they're a part of

[30:00] this world and

[30:02] really can pull you out of it when so

[30:05] many of these little things add up and

[30:08] it hits a point where you're just like

[30:09] why am I not feeling that sense of

[30:11] immersion and I think all of these

[30:13] little things going one way or the other

[30:15] way, right? Making you feel immersed or

[30:16] not feel immersed really do add up and

[30:19] change how you feel and so

[30:22] yeah, I just wanted to make that video

[30:23] and rant about immersion cuz it's been a

[30:26] topic that's just been on my head for a

[30:27] while. So thanks for watching. If you

[30:29] want more videos, I just made

[30:31] >> Yeah, dude this guy is great. I think

[30:33] that's the second video of him that I

[30:34] watched. This video he absolutely

[30:36] cooked. Thank YouTube for recommended it

[30:38] to me I think but I'm going to leave it

[30:40] link You guys should watch it for

[30:42] yourself. Give him a like. That was

[30:43] amazing.