How To Increase Creativity and Avoid YouTube Burnout w/Dr. Peter Attia

[00:00] you would never shoot a video and just

[00:01] load it without editing it but that's

[00:03] what many people are doing in their

[00:04] lives is there a scientific way to spark

[00:06] creativity on command nothing sit there

[00:09] and suffer what exactly is YouTuber

[00:11] burnout how do you know when you're

[00:13] burnt out the more public you are the

[00:15] more of a personality you are the more

[00:17] you are completely working against

[00:20] anything Evolution ever anticipated for

[00:22] you today on the Colin its Mir show we

[00:24] talked to Dr Peter AA about one of the

[00:26] biggest challenges facing YouTube

[00:28] creators burnout this is something that

[00:30] Samir and I and a lot of our friends

[00:32] have dealt with many times in our career

[00:34] we're no stranger to burnout my friend

[00:37] that's what I'm saying we've we've we've

[00:39] had some really tough times and I think

[00:41] uh you know there's been times where we

[00:43] compare being a Creator to being an

[00:45] athlete but we don't treat ourselves

[00:47] like athletes we don't think about our

[00:50] physical and mental well-being in the

[00:52] context of Peak Performance but that's

[00:55] what this conversation is all about we

[00:56] got to sit with Peter back in the

[00:57] beginning of the year at spotter Summit

[01:00] where we got to host a fireside chat

[01:02] with him in front of a ton of top

[01:04] creators and it was one of the most

[01:06] engaged sessions because you realize

[01:09] every Creator is trying to operate at

[01:12] their Peak Performance and Peter is not

[01:15] like other doctors he has a different

[01:17] perspective he's a cool doctor he's a

[01:19] cool docor he actually is really cool

[01:21] he's a cool guy yeah he is not only an

[01:24] expert in wellness and Longevity but he

[01:27] is a Creator himself right so he has an

[01:30] understanding of what it is like to

[01:32] press publish to put out multiple

[01:34] episodes and how to deal with the career

[01:39] not only that he's studied this for a

[01:40] long time he's like one of the leading

[01:42] experts in longevity he wrote a book

[01:45] called outlive which is a New York Times

[01:46] bestseller and one that you gifted me

[01:49] thank you um you're welcome but he's a

[01:51] guy who has really studied longevity and

[01:54] how not only do we live a long life but

[01:57] how do we live an enjoyable life

[02:00] and that that's something that I just

[02:01] really love about him the first time I

[02:04] ever had the chance to speak with Peter

[02:06] AA I left feeling like my life had

[02:08] completely changed yeah I will always

[02:11] look back on and remember and I'm

[02:12] excited for all of you to have a similar

[02:14] type of experience in this episode we

[02:16] sourced questions from three different

[02:18] creators for Peter and also at the end

[02:21] of this episode Colin and I come back

[02:23] and do a debrief so after Peter leaves

[02:25] the chair we sit down and give you our

[02:27] takeaways from the episode so stay tuned

[02:30] for

[02:30] [Music]

[02:35] that petera welcome to the show thank

[02:38] you for having me sir should I have said

[02:39] Dr petera no just petera okay great um

[02:45] although have you seen uh you guys are

[02:47] probably not old enough to remember meet

[02:48] the Meet the Parents no of course you of

[02:50] course you are yeah come on how old do

[02:52] you think we are I mean come on didn't

[02:54] that movie come out in like 2000 we're

[02:56] maybe older than we look yeah yeah so

[02:59] remember the scene in it with the the Dr

[03:01] Bob yes he's like please call me Bob MD

[03:04] so anytime I'm with my wife and someone

[03:07] calls me like Dr I'm like please call me

[03:09] Peter she goes

[03:11] MD so

[03:14] embarrassing um well man we we

[03:16] absolutely loved the conversation we got

[03:18] to have with you in January in Montana

[03:20] and I I think i' I don't think I've ever

[03:22] seen a room of creators that engaged

[03:24] like that that was a pretty I think we

[03:28] all could have sat in there for another

[03:30] two hours with you just raising our

[03:31] hands and asking questions so and

[03:33] multiple creators took notes there were

[03:35] Google docs on top of Google doc that

[03:37] got sent out after that talk yeah so

[03:40] that I think uh after that experience I

[03:42] think we we took a step back and we were

[03:44] like we should really have that

[03:45] conversation on the show because scaling

[03:47] that and and spreading that like I think

[03:50] the connection

[03:51] of Health creativity and also just work

[03:55] our relationship with work as creative

[03:57] people um it's just not something that

[04:00] we're discussing that much um so I

[04:03] wanted to start with just even asking

[04:06] you the question of uh this term burnout

[04:08] you know we used it a lot a lot of

[04:10] creators use it is there like a is that

[04:13] a conversation that's happening from a

[04:15] medical perspective or like how do you

[04:17] define what is

[04:19] burnout you know I don't know that I

[04:20] have a great definition for it but it is

[04:22] definitely it's one of those things that

[04:24] uh you know I don't know if it was the

[04:25] Supreme Court that said this but you I'm

[04:27] sure you've heard it it's apocryphal

[04:28] about you know it's it's hard to Define

[04:30] pornography but you know it when you see

[04:31] it I think the same is true for for for

[04:33] Burnout um so so apologies to the

[04:37] sociologists or behavioral psychologists

[04:39] who who probably actually have a

[04:40] technical definition for it um but it is

[04:42] a topic in medicine especially in

[04:44] primary care but frankly all over

[04:46] medicine uh physician burnout is you

[04:48] know it's just it's just a mammoth

[04:49] problem you know many Physicians have to

[04:51] operate in a paradigm where they they

[04:52] have to see a certain number of patients

[04:55] a day their their visits and

[04:56] interactions with the patients are very

[04:58] transactional and you've got you know

[05:01] somewhere between 10 and 15 minutes per

[05:02] patient and you're going to run through

[05:05] 10 hours of this every single day and so

[05:07] what you don't have time for in that

[05:09] situation is you don't have time to talk

[05:11] to the person you don't have time to

[05:12] strike up a rapport so that clearly

[05:14] leads to this phenomenon of burn out

[05:16] you're kind of losing the reason you did

[05:17] this thing because there's nobody who

[05:19] said I want to go into medicine because

[05:21] I want to push as many charts as as

[05:22] humanly possible in a day and come up

[05:24] with as many diagnostic codes to make

[05:26] sure that we get reimbursed etc etc

[05:28] that's not that's not really why people

[05:29] go into it

[05:30] I I think the difference between like

[05:33] doctors and creators when it comes to

[05:34] burnout is that a doctor is very much on

[05:36] the clock right like there is it's very

[05:38] long hours but there's an extended

[05:40] period of time where it's like it will

[05:41] end at some point YouTube creators and

[05:44] content creators we like make our own

[05:46] hours right so we will go and go and go

[05:49] and go and that often leads us and has

[05:52] led us to burnout what are I I wish I

[05:56] knew this in my early 20s but what are

[05:58] some of the like sure fire signs that

[06:01] you are burnt out and should take a step

[06:05] back and sort of reassess you know again

[06:07] I think there are there's probably a

[06:08] real clinical answer to this but I would

[06:10] say some some things that likely sit on

[06:13] that list would be just a a a lack of

[06:15] desire to do the thing right like if the

[06:18] Joy from the from the thing you're

[06:19] supposed to be doing is gone um that's

[06:22] that's probably a sign that you're

[06:23] burning out um so I know for me when I'm

[06:26] sort of feeling that way um like for

[06:29] example like I I sort of do you know I

[06:31] have like five different jobs um but

[06:33] like one of those jobs is the podcast

[06:35] right is content creation if I'm not

[06:37] enjoying preparing for a podcast if I'm

[06:40] feeling like I'm not prepared and you

[06:44] know all of a sudden I've lost the plot

[06:45] of why do I even want to talk to this

[06:47] person tomorrow like you know this is

[06:49] something that's been arranged for

[06:50] months and now I've lost why I'm doing

[06:52] it because I feel lost in my preparation

[06:54] it's usually a sign that I'm going too

[06:55] fast if the joy is gone then I'm I'm

[06:58] probably on that path to burn out I

[07:00] would just say if it's sort of creeping

[07:01] into other areas of your life you know

[07:03] if you know you guys are married I don't

[07:05] know if you guys have you guys have kids

[07:06] not yet not yet yeah so I think if

[07:09] you're distracted around your at least

[07:10] for me if I'm distracted around my kids

[07:12] if I'm not able to kind of if I set

[07:15] aside time to do something with my kids

[07:17] if I'm sort of being pulled into

[07:19] something else um that's that's just

[07:21] generally a bad sign for me or at least

[07:22] a warning sign that's you know it makes

[07:24] me say hey what what's going on and why

[07:26] is this happening there there's a uh

[07:28] definition of the the term that was that

[07:30] we heard from Casey nead who's like

[07:32] obviously like a storied Creator um he

[07:35] said it's burnout is creative output

[07:37] without Direction and I actually think

[07:40] it's it's interesting that you mentioned

[07:42] that of like if you lose the

[07:45] initial impetus for why you did the

[07:47] thing and I I I remember hearing that

[07:50] and recognizing that there was a lot of

[07:51] time in our career over the past 13

[07:53] years where we were just trying to work

[07:56] through the stress or work through the

[07:59] ch

[08:01] and we didn't have an end point of where

[08:03] we were going and I think that actually

[08:06] today the the platforms are can be

[08:09] designed for that where it's just about

[08:11] the next as long as you can get to the

[08:13] next upload and they keep you on the on

[08:16] the uh on the treadmill really well

[08:18] right because you're rewarded for that

[08:20] dopamine hit when you do press publish

[08:22] when something does work um you want to

[08:24] feel it again and if you don't feel it

[08:27] then you're chasing that next time that

[08:29] you do feel it your kind of time window

[08:32] shortens to your next upload and I think

[08:35] the broader macro Direction can get lost

[08:37] really easily how much have you studied

[08:40] or or you know with you even as a

[08:43] content creator yourself studied the the

[08:45] impacts

[08:46] of these kind of dopamine hits that

[08:49] we're

[08:50] receiving through the internet um I

[08:53] think about it a lot actually um I I

[08:56] recently uh interviewed a woman named

[08:58] Anna l

[09:00] in fact she wrote she's a Stanford

[09:01] psychiatrist wrote the book called

[09:03] dopamine Nation so you know really wrote

[09:06] a great book that gets into the science

[09:07] of how how dopamine works and how

[09:10] certain types of external stimuli can

[09:11] kind of hijack us right so this can be a

[09:15] really positive thing or it can be kind

[09:17] of a negative thing so it really depends

[09:19] on the nature of um how how the dopamine

[09:23] system is is sort of hijacked so let's

[09:25] start with kind of a positive example um

[09:28] so first thing is understanding that in

[09:30] every system the body really wants to be

[09:32] in equilibrium so so one of the things

[09:34] that is kind of amazing about biology

[09:37] and in human biology is realizing how

[09:39] many systems are in place to keep us in

[09:42] this point of equilibrium so take for

[09:43] example temperature the body has to be

[09:46] at 98 and A5 degrees Fahrenheit that's

[09:49] really the optimal place for every

[09:51] enzyme in the body to work plus or

[09:53] minus5° so basically 98 to 99° F

[09:58] obviously you'll get outside of that if

[09:59] you have a

[10:00] fever you're going to be 101 102 that is

[10:04] not optimal but your body's making that

[10:06] tradeoff to get rid of and kill a

[10:08] virus but what happens if you get to 104

[10:10] 105 you're dead similarly what if you

[10:13] get down to 94 93 well if you're there

[10:17] for too long you're dead so again body

[10:20] has incredible systems to keep you in

[10:23] that range regardless of the external

[10:24] temperature H okay let's think about

[10:27] something like pH so again not to get

[10:29] two sciency on it but pH is a marker of

[10:31] acid balance our bodies exist at a pH of

[10:34] 7.4 if you get much above about 7.8

[10:37] you're dead if you get below 7.1 7.0

[10:41] you're dead so regardless of what is

[10:43] going on in your body your kidneys and

[10:45] your lungs will work like crazy to

[10:48] buffer the acid in your body I could go

[10:51] on and on and on but basically every

[10:53] system in the body works this way

[10:55] whether it's the regulation of glucose

[10:57] sodium hemoglobin you name it we're

[11:00] these incredible equilibrium machines I

[11:02] think it's one of the most amazing

[11:03] things about the human body is its

[11:04] capacity for buffering anything okay so

[11:07] now let's talk about how dopamine

[11:08] factors into that so our body wants to

[11:11] sort of preserve a certain level of

[11:15] homeostasis within um kind of the way

[11:17] our brain works so when you do something

[11:21] that is actually quite uncomfortable

[11:23] that causes pain um your body will

[11:27] actually start to produce more dopamine

[11:29] to offset that so an example of that

[11:31] would be exercise so why do people most

[11:34] of the time feel actually quite good

[11:35] after Hard Exercise well it's actually

[11:38] because when you exercise really really

[11:40] hard and you're hurting yourself and I

[11:42] don't mean like in kind of a dangerous

[11:44] way but like you we were talking earlier

[11:45] when you came in you were doing dead

[11:46] hangs you were doing Farmers carries

[11:48] clearly that hurt yeah yeah so your body

[11:51] started to actually make so the pain is

[11:54] coming on your body actually has to

[11:55] start making dopamine to offset that

[11:58] pain when you stop doing that thing when

[12:00] you are done with your dead hangs and

[12:02] farmer carries you still have some of

[12:04] that dopamine lingering around you feel

[12:05] pretty good yeah but it's not obscene

[12:08] amounts such that there's a crash after

[12:10] it's just a slight elevation that kind

[12:12] of gently comes down the same is true

[12:14] actually for cold plunging um and this

[12:16] is not true for everybody there are some

[12:17] people who just get pain with no

[12:19] pleasure but most people actually get

[12:21] kind of quite a bit of pleasure after

[12:22] the fact certainly for me that's the

[12:24] caseit I get an incredible High that's

[12:27] not like out of this world but it's just

[12:29] it's almost like a beautiful Buzz of

[12:30] pleasure for a couple of hours after a a

[12:33] you know 10 minutes at 40° or something

[12:36] super

[12:37] frigid of course there's the negative

[12:39] side to this so what is it about

[12:40] gambling social media alcohol all of

[12:44] those things well those things actually

[12:46] produce the dopamine high but they do it

[12:48] at such a high level that your body now

[12:50] does the opposite it says I need to

[12:52] actually lower this I need to offset

[12:54] what's going on in the other direction

[12:56] and so now when that stimulus goes away

[12:58] you're actually in a depressed

[13:00] state so I I think being aware of this

[13:05] kind of helps you understand at least

[13:07] for me I work well when I have an

[13:10] understanding of the system so by

[13:12] understanding that I just limit the

[13:15] amount of time that I'm doing things

[13:18] that are producing intense

[13:20] stimulation um I try to get my dopamine

[13:24] I hate to use this word but I try to get

[13:25] it more naturally right that's why I

[13:28] like using cold plunge I like using

[13:29] exercise I I don't like to use social

[13:33] reinforcement I don't like to use social

[13:36] media which is not to say I don't have

[13:37] social media I just don't like to look

[13:39] at it very much as as a validation right

[13:43] I like to look at it for entertainment

[13:45] so I'm not you know I have Instagram on

[13:46] my phone I'm always scrolling looking

[13:48] for funny videos and baseball videos and

[13:50] like the things that I like but I spend

[13:53] virtually no time looking at the

[13:55] response to my content because I know

[13:58] that that's going to create that honic

[14:00] cycle where I'm going to need it and I'm

[14:02] going to be disappointed when it's not

[14:03] there and even if it is there it's just

[14:05] going to fuel the next

[14:07] high that's not an easy thing to do no

[14:10] that's incredibly challenging especially

[14:11] when it's connected to your other

[14:13] currency evaluation which is money yeah

[14:16] it's also like just not good for

[14:18] business like I wouldn't recommend a lot

[14:20] of professional creators to just not

[14:21] look at their analy no I think what you

[14:23] can do is you can have others you so

[14:25] first of all you can look at the

[14:26] analytics NE without necessarily just

[14:28] getting mired in the details of every

[14:31] comment right the other thing is you

[14:33] know you can have others who are less

[14:35] emotionally attached to it kind of help

[14:37] with some of that stuff so yeah by all

[14:40] means we should understand how content

[14:42] is performing and what's doing well and

[14:44] what's not um but in particular I think

[14:48] kind of you know getting getting um

[14:51] attaching your validation to to to

[14:55] whatever it is the number of comments

[14:56] the number of views I I think is

[14:59] slippery slope and and and honestly like

[15:00] I don't know if you're going to win I

[15:02] think you have to ask the question like

[15:04] even if it's going really well if you're

[15:06] attaching your validation to

[15:09] that you're never really going to be

[15:12] satiated there there may not be a

[15:14] scientific answer to this but I'm

[15:15] curious I was speaking with uh a Creator

[15:18] yesterday and she's a comedian and we

[15:19] were talking about how you end up seeing

[15:23] comments by accident yeah a lot of times

[15:25] you're not looking for a comment but you

[15:27] see a negative comment yeah and it can

[15:29] about your appearance it can be about

[15:30] your performance and even if there are

[15:31] 2,000 positive comments you see that one

[15:35] and it impacts you so much and for some

[15:36] reason the 2,000 positive comments are

[15:39] not able to balance out the negative one

[15:41] for sure why is that like why am I not

[15:44] able to sort of separate in a healthy

[15:46] way the one negative from the 2000

[15:48] positive yeah so whoever told you that

[15:50] is absolutely correct and he or she is

[15:52] not alone um it's called negativity bias

[15:55] and there is actually a scientific

[15:56] reason for it at least we we believe

[15:58] there is and ution would have favored

[16:00] this so think about how we evolved right

[16:02] we evolved in tribes and these tribes

[16:05] were pretty small right so probably we

[16:09] we banded together in groups of I don't

[16:11] know 20 to 100 people and that was about

[16:13] it so now think about think about how

[16:17] natural selection would have selected

[16:19] for people who were attuned to the

[16:22] negative response of others that's a

[16:24] really important feature to have so

[16:27] imagine we go back back in time it's

[16:30] 200,000 years ago we're just chilling in

[16:32] our tribe and I'm a complete

[16:36] prick it would be so important that I

[16:39] quickly figure out you guys know that

[16:42] and don't like me and I have to course

[16:43] correct my behavior CU if you guys kick

[16:46] me out of the tribe right I just died

[16:49] humans cannot survive in isolation for

[16:51] more than a couple of days so there's

[16:54] this incredible pressure to be very

[16:57] attuned to when people don't like me the

[17:00] converse is not true it's actually not

[17:02] that important that I know you like me

[17:04] from an evolutionary perspective now we

[17:06] could argue for all the reasons today it

[17:09] would be wonderful if I knew that you

[17:10] loved me and it would be so validating

[17:12] to me and it would but evolution doesn't

[17:14] care about that Evolution cares about

[17:15] survival and procreation and that's it

[17:18] and that's what's hardwired into our

[17:20] genome so that that's the reason for

[17:22] this phenomenon we are absolutely

[17:25] hardwired towards a negativity bias so

[17:28] it's explains phenomenon explains why we

[17:30] like negative news more than positive

[17:32] news um it's a great example of how

[17:35] something that

[17:36] was absolutely essential for our

[17:39] survival as a species has become so

[17:42] maladaptive in the current environment

[17:44] that negativity bias is a really

[17:46] interesting one in the context of

[17:48] survivalism I really yeah just think

[17:50] about like what it would have been like

[17:52] yeah in a tribe if you couldn't perceive

[17:55] others negative feelings towards you I I

[17:58] wonder also if like our tribes now were

[18:02] were like from an evolution perspective

[18:04] we were never meant to have such big uh

[18:08] tribes we were not absolutely tribes of

[18:10] millions of people which is what you

[18:12] have on YouTube which is what you have

[18:14] on social media right the more public

[18:16] you are the more of a personality you

[18:18] are the more you are completely working

[18:22] against anything Evolution ever

[18:24] anticipated for you now it's not to say

[18:27] if our species doesn't survive another

[18:29] 100,000 years that we won't figure out a

[18:33] way to evolve into that so then why why

[18:36] in the context of like burnout and um

[18:40] you know enjoyment of the thing is

[18:42] something that we're talking about yeah

[18:44] purpose is a thing that can keep you

[18:48] healthy why is that is there any studies

[18:51] around like why purpose and uh

[18:54] connection to your why or like enjoyment

[18:57] of that thing

[18:59] does like it's kind of interesting to me

[19:01] that that would play into a fact of like

[19:04] Evolution or even like human

[19:07] biology so again I I think you know

[19:10] Arthur do you guys know who Arthur

[19:11] Brooks is yeah Arthur Arthur's a great

[19:14] friend and and someone I spend a lot of

[19:16] time thinking about this subject with um

[19:19] so Arthur would argue that Evolution

[19:21] didn't actually care about your

[19:24] happiness um so happiness is um is like

[19:29] many things that we care about today

[19:31] that we just can't look to Evolution for

[19:33] guidance on things that are easy are

[19:36] things that Evolution has selected for

[19:38] right it's easy to eat it's easy to

[19:41] notice negative comments it's easy to go

[19:44] to sleep every night might not want to

[19:46] but you know like eventually you're

[19:47] going to have to sleep every night like

[19:49] those are the things that are hardwired

[19:51] into our genome but this other thing

[19:53] about how do I maintain a sense of

[19:55] purpose how do I you know preserve my

[19:58] pass like that just wasn't part of the

[20:00] purview of natural selection and

[20:02] therefore it will for different people

[20:04] require different degrees of expenditure

[20:07] and effort um so again there there are

[20:10] some people for whom I think these

[20:11] things come easier than others and that

[20:13] doesn't mean they're less important just

[20:15] you know there's some people like for me

[20:17] exercise comes very easily again

[20:19] Evolution didn't tell us to exercise

[20:21] like we didn't have to we were active

[20:23] naturally so anybody in the modern era

[20:25] who's going to make time to exercise is

[20:27] making a conscious decision to not be

[20:30] lazy technically Evolution wanted you

[20:32] sort of sitting around as much as

[20:33] possible conserving energy right so if

[20:35] you weren't out getting food or you know

[20:38] moving or doing something else you it's

[20:40] not like you know natural selection made

[20:43] it for your desire to carry kettle bells

[20:46] around the the campfire um but some

[20:49] people have an easier time doing it than

[20:51] others that's fine that's a question

[20:52] that I wanted to ask you specifically

[20:54] because I I often feel very

[20:56] discouraged uh at my lack of exercise or

[21:00] lack of action as it compares to the

[21:04] level of inspiration that I get in my

[21:06] life so whether that's inspiration

[21:08] through what I see on social media to

[21:10] eat this way act this way or even

[21:12] sitting with you uh at spotter Summit I

[21:15] left being like my whole life just

[21:17] changed I'm going to hang I'm going to

[21:19] cold plunge I'm going to sauna I'm going

[21:21] to eat this way I'm going to get an

[21:22] eight sleep everything is going to

[21:24] change and you know I was telling you

[21:27] I'm three4 of the way through your book

[21:29] I listen to you a lot on shows and I'm

[21:30] like I have the inspiration I have the

[21:32] motivation but I have a hard time

[21:33] staying consistent and taking action

[21:35] what advice do you have to to start

[21:37] taking those steps to be uh more active

[21:41] yeah no I think that's a great question

[21:42] Colin I think um not overdoing it and

[21:46] starting with something small that

[21:47] you're going to get a win and and some

[21:49] success with right so it might be that

[21:51] in February when we first met you you

[21:54] came away with too much ambition right

[21:56] you were like oh my God I got to change

[21:59] the way I sleep the way I eat the way I

[22:01] exercise the way I manage this that that

[22:03] well that's pretty overwhelming right

[22:05] especially for someone who's really busy

[22:07] right so it's not like you're working 9

[22:09] to5 um so what I would do is I would

[22:13] sort of you know sit down with you and

[22:15] sort of go through where you are right

[22:17] now on all the metrics so if we if we

[22:20] were to say look in an Ideal World this

[22:22] would be kind of your exercise program

[22:24] this would be how long you would sleep

[22:25] this would be how much time you devote

[22:26] to meal planning and eating um this

[22:28] would be your your mental health

[22:30] practice all these other things first

[22:32] question I want to know is where's the

[22:34] biggest opportunity so where are you

[22:36] furthest from what we might consider

[22:38] ideal and then I would marry that to

[22:42] what one thing are you willing to try

[22:44] doing first so start with a bit of

[22:46] desire and let's just assume we did that

[22:48] exercise and we realized well you're

[22:50] barely working out and as a former

[22:52] athlete I mean you played lacrosse in

[22:54] college so it's not like you're you know

[22:56] it's not like exercise is foreign to you

[22:58] um would you be willing to do 30 minutes

[22:59] a day of exercise no other change right

[23:02] let's not worry about your sleep right

[23:04] now it's not that bad let's not worry

[23:06] about all these other things and then it

[23:07] sort of just comes down to Habit

[23:09] building and I think I tal I might have

[23:11] talked about this in February but um

[23:13] when it comes to additive habits versus

[23:15] subtractive habits so subtractive habits

[23:17] are I want to quit smoking I want to

[23:19] stop eating junk food etc etc additive

[23:21] habits are I want to exercise I want to

[23:23] go to bed earlier those kinds of things

[23:25] um so on an additive habit I think the

[23:27] key is building success small and

[23:31] consistent and so if a person's not

[23:33] exercising at all I would say could we

[23:36] do 15 minutes of something a day where

[23:38] by the way at the beginning it might not

[23:40] even be going to the gym it might be

[23:41] going for a walk but if can I pull you

[23:44] away from whatever it is that's keeping

[23:46] you from exercise so if it's TV social

[23:48] media work even family time like

[23:51] whatever it is that is preventing you

[23:52] from exercise let's just create a

[23:55] circuit break that says go outside and

[23:57] walk for 15 minutes yeah and after like

[24:00] a week of that you're like huh that's

[24:02] like seven straight days where I've

[24:03] walked for 15 minutes okay great could

[24:05] we make it 20 the next week 30 the next

[24:08] week well at some point it's actually

[24:10] going to become something that you've

[24:12] just accepted like I work around this

[24:13] because remember work expands to fill

[24:15] available time never forget that work

[24:18] expands to fill available time so don't

[24:20] ever act like I just need more time to

[24:22] go and do this thing no you got to do

[24:24] this thing and then the work has to fit

[24:25] around it wait say that again work

[24:27] expands to available time work expands

[24:29] to fill available time fill available

[24:31] time yeah wow that's really interesting

[24:34] yeah it's either that's either Peter's

[24:35] principal or Parkinson's principle I

[24:36] can't remember it's one of those two uh

[24:38] but it's it's a well-known principle

[24:40] right which is um if you give a person a

[24:43] task and give them six hours or give a

[24:44] person a task and give them four hours

[24:46] it's always going to take six hours or

[24:47] four hours there's no scenario by which

[24:50] work somehow gets compressed it will

[24:52] always it's like a gas it always fills

[24:54] the room it's in so that feels like the

[24:56] opposite of working out for me like if I

[24:59] have available time it's not filled with

[25:02] that's my point so you have to take you

[25:03] have to put the workout in it because

[25:05] it's just going to compress the amount

[25:06] of time you're working anyway so that

[25:08] that note actually hits me in a really

[25:10] interesting way

[25:11] of it's very hard for me to fill

[25:14] available time with anything else like I

[25:17] I am very committed to exercise that's

[25:19] something I've been committed to since I

[25:20] was I was I was young so that's like a

[25:23] non-negotiable for me but in any other

[25:26] time I'm basically constantly fill it

[25:30] with work MH and the thing that I

[25:32] struggle with with our work and being an

[25:34] entrepreneur is that there's an

[25:36] unlimited amount of work there there's

[25:39] always an opportunity I think it was one

[25:41] of our friends um erak who was who was

[25:43] there in January as well but he said um

[25:46] we're only capped by our willingness to

[25:49] work as entrepreneurs and YouTube

[25:51] creators right like as as YouTube

[25:53] creators this ever expanding environment

[25:55] of the internet where it's like we

[25:57] always could be doing

[25:59] something to progress our careers that's

[26:02] the thing I struggle with the most of

[26:04] like how do I set those boundaries

[26:08] around that thing because I'm just I

[26:10] just am the guy who wants to if I have a

[26:13] moment I'm gonna open up my laptop and

[26:15] go what can I progress right now yeah

[26:17] and and look I don't want to be the pot

[26:19] calling the kettle black because I'm an

[26:21] entrepreneur as well I'm like I said I

[26:24] kind of have like four or five different

[26:26] businesses I'm running yeah so there's

[26:28] never a minute when one of them is not

[26:31] in desperate need of my attention um but

[26:35] because I am completely and intimately

[26:37] aware of this principle that work

[26:39] expands to fill available time I just I

[26:42] know that that's exactly what's going to

[26:44] happen if I'm not deliberate so then

[26:47] what I have to say is what are my other

[26:49] priorities what are the things that I

[26:51] can't let slip and for me that list is

[26:55] different than what it might be for you

[26:56] or what it might be for you and that's

[26:58] okay

[26:58] but I know what my list is right so for

[27:00] me exercise can't slip time with my kids

[27:04] can't slip time with my wife can't

[27:06] slip um does it Flex at some points it

[27:10] does like the past week has been brutal

[27:13] the next two weeks are going to be

[27:14] brutal um it means I'm not going to you

[27:17] know I actually didn't have date night

[27:19] with my wife this week which is unusual

[27:21] we always have one night to go

[27:23] out um you know I only got to see one of

[27:26] my kids games or practices I'd like to

[27:28] see two you know like there are certain

[27:30] things that they got squeezed but I have

[27:33] a pretty clear sense during the week of

[27:35] what has to get done and those things

[27:37] are immovable because if they're not if

[27:39] I try to put them in after the fact

[27:41] they're not going to

[27:42] happen yeah so what is it so if I put

[27:45] those immovable objects in place then

[27:48] it's not the end of the world if a

[27:50] little extra work Creeps in right

[27:52] because I've already taken care of my

[27:54] foundational stuff so your found

[27:58] foundational stuff is going to change

[27:59] like you guys don't have kids yet when

[28:01] you have kids you will have more

[28:03] foundational things that are going to

[28:05] matter to you um someone listening to us

[28:08] might be single that's great so they

[28:10] have fewer foundational things they

[28:12] don't have a relationship they need to

[28:13] tend to um you know maybe at some point

[28:16] your parents are so old that you

[28:18] actually need to put time into taking

[28:20] care of your parents which is probably

[28:21] something the three of us don't have to

[28:22] do any of today so you see what I mean

[28:25] like you have to be somewhat malleable

[28:27] in this but the frame work is understand

[28:29] what the non-negotiables are and account

[28:32] for those first now then there's also

[28:34] strategies for how to do that I never

[28:36] exercise late in the day do you know why

[28:39] it's way too easy for me to kick it down

[28:41] the road if I if I if I say I'm going to

[28:44] do my workout from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m.

[28:47] there's always an overflow of a call

[28:49] that didn't quite get done there's

[28:50] always a chance that my kid is going to

[28:52] want to go and hit baseballs and

[28:54] honestly I'm going to be really

[28:55] struggling between do I want you know of

[28:56] course I want to go hit baseballs with

[28:58] but I got to work out okay what am I

[28:59] going to do but by throwing that for me

[29:02] throwing those workouts in the morning

[29:04] there's always a time when it's set to

[29:06] get done and you know shy of a

[29:08] ridiculous crisis it's going to get done

[29:11] and by ridiculous crisis I mean

[29:12] something that's only going to happen

[29:13] like once every six months like it's not

[29:15] this isn't like oh it's on the weekly

[29:17] I'm going to miss that sure um

[29:20] so you know having a standing date night

[29:23] with your wife where it's just it's on

[29:24] the calendar and it's like you're not

[29:26] you're not you know you're not going to

[29:27] break that reservation

[29:28] hours ah of time because you want to

[29:30] keep it's there it's already there it's

[29:33] planned I think that's actually

[29:34] extremely important is like the standing

[29:37] Frameworks I've noticed that with

[29:38] friendships that as you get older and as

[29:41] you're being an entrepreneur it's really

[29:43] easy to let friendships and social kind

[29:46] of get pushed to the side but if you

[29:48] create Frameworks where it's like every

[29:50] Wednesday morning we meet and do this

[29:51] workout class together and have

[29:52] breakfast after which I which I have

[29:54] with with two of my friends um you got

[29:56] to drag this friend with you yeah that's

[29:58] true good luck uh but it's even if we

[30:03] cancel it you have to take an action to

[30:04] cancel it rather than having it be

[30:07] standing right and you know the other

[30:09] thing I've been thinking about is we've

[30:10] been doing this career for 13 years

[30:11] together I think about the factors that

[30:14] we've been collaborating with in each of

[30:17] the chapters of our career like in our

[30:18] early 20s the biggest Factor was kind of

[30:21] this drive for

[30:22] validation uh from others from ourselves

[30:25] this like we wanted to make something

[30:27] out of ourselves and that's a

[30:28] collaborative factor in the early stages

[30:31] of this career of being YouTubers as you

[30:33] get older like now we're collaborating

[30:35] with the fact that we have wives and we

[30:36] want to spend time with our wives we're

[30:38] collaborating with um all these other

[30:41] factors and that'll change continue to

[30:42] change over time and that's the thing I

[30:44] have been thinking about quite a bit of

[30:46] you know obviously you study longevity

[30:51] and I thought about that coming into

[30:53] this conversation around like I want to

[30:55] do this career for a long time but I'm

[30:58] have to be very aware of the different

[30:59] factors that we are collaborating with

[31:03] if I want to do this for the next couple

[31:05] decades so I I was I wanted to get into

[31:07] that subject matter of longevity how you

[31:09] define that and then dive into some of

[31:12] the the factors of it and I assume you

[31:14] mean not physical longevity but career

[31:16] longevity I guess I I tie those two

[31:19] together I think like and you tell me if

[31:21] you do or don't but we had a

[31:23] conversation with an executive one time

[31:24] who called himself a work athlete and

[31:26] that was the first time I took a a step

[31:28] back and I was like oh my physical and

[31:30] mental health similar to an athlete are

[31:33] directly correlated to my success in my

[31:37] career as a

[31:38] Creator and so I I guess when I heard

[31:40] you talk about longevity I thought about

[31:43] that being directly correlated to my

[31:45] career longevity um yeah I I think about

[31:47] it as you know if I get up before one of

[31:50] these interviews I get up early I work

[31:52] out I eat right I will have a better

[31:54] interview I will also be happier when I

[31:57] get home with my partner like they're so

[31:59] tied together I'll work better with

[32:01] Samir because I feel better about myself

[32:04] yeah so I guess for me personally I take

[32:07] that part for granted because it's such

[32:09] a high priority regardless of what I'm

[32:11] doing in other words regardless of what

[32:14] my where I am in my career because I've

[32:16] had a lot of careers right so I've my my

[32:19] life has

[32:20] been a bizarre path that has made no

[32:23] sense like you know how they say like

[32:26] all the dots connect in retrospect yeah

[32:28] even in retrospect it's kind of hard to

[32:31] draw the dots I was actually listening

[32:32] to you on Rogan talk about like the

[32:34] mortgage crisis yeah and I was like wait

[32:37] what part of your career was that yeah

[32:39] we we I can tell you the story but my

[32:41] point is like independent of what I'm

[32:43] doing in my career or if I if I retired

[32:46] tomorrow the physical cognitive like the

[32:49] health part of my longevity would always

[32:50] be a high priority so I agree with you

[32:53] completely that like if a person needs

[32:56] any more motivation

[32:58] for taking care of themselves then the

[33:01] future which is I want to live as long

[33:04] as I can and be as healthy as I can the

[33:07] present should be motivation enough so

[33:09] what you're really saying is is there a

[33:11] performance benefit in the present from

[33:14] being healthy and the answer is

[33:15] unequivocally yes and to to the point of

[33:17] the person you interviewed um we we use

[33:20] the term athlete for life you need to be

[33:22] an athlete for life um so life is your

[33:24] sport so how do you train for life

[33:26] that's that's what we think about a lot

[33:27] and practice um I think the harder

[33:30] problem and maybe the one I think more

[33:33] about because I don't take this for

[33:34] granted is will I still be doing this in

[33:37] 10 years and if so what needs to be true

[33:41] with respect to my excitement level for

[33:43] it where because I get bored so easily

[33:48] um what what has to be true about what

[33:50] I'm doing for me to want to be doing

[33:52] this in 10 years um that's the question

[33:54] I think a lot about that's a great

[33:56] question a really good prompt yeah we I

[33:58] mean we even uh on a more micro level

[34:01] when we're talking with aspiring

[34:03] creators we'll often tell them like

[34:05] whatever the first version is of your

[34:07] Channel or your Endeavor make sure you

[34:09] really care about that Community or the

[34:12] value that you're providing and the way

[34:14] that you're doing it your process of

[34:16] course your process can improve but if

[34:18] what you're doing works if you find a

[34:20] way that it works and it succeeds

[34:21] whatever that process is whatever that

[34:23] community that you're providing value to

[34:25] if you want longevity you're going to be

[34:26] doing some version of that that looks

[34:28] very similar in 10 years right y it's a

[34:31] very similar type of thing C can you

[34:34] define uh I really liked this the first

[34:36] thing I wrote down from from talking to

[34:38] you was the difference between lifespan

[34:39] and health span and I really liked that

[34:43] distinction can you define those two

[34:44] terms yeah lifespan is the easier of the

[34:47] two to understand it's the it's the how

[34:49] long you live so it's it's binary right

[34:51] it's it's uh uh you're alive or you're

[34:53] dead um like so that's kind of call it

[34:56] death certificate death right

[34:58] um Health span is a little harder to

[35:00] Define um but it I mean there's a

[35:03] medical definition to it which is sort

[35:05] of not that helpful which is the the

[35:06] period of time in which you are free of

[35:08] disability and disease but I I think a a

[35:10] better definition is is really just

[35:12] around the quality of your physical life

[35:15] your cognitive life your emotional life

[35:17] I think those are kind of the three

[35:18] pillars to it now two of those decline

[35:22] inevitably with age the physical and

[35:24] cognitive peace decline with age uh the

[35:26] emotional peace does not it's not it

[35:28] doesn't have to I mean it can but it

[35:30] doesn't need to so so you have these two

[35:32] pieces that are uh linked to biology and

[35:36] that invariably go down and then you

[35:38] have one that is not as linked to

[35:40] biology uh and and at least not Linked

[35:43] In A declining way and doesn't have to

[35:45] go down and and honestly if you play

[35:46] your cards right I think can go up so um

[35:50] and that's not binary right that's

[35:52] that's that's analog as opposed to

[35:54] digital um and it's also very malleable

[35:58] right there's a lot that we have control

[36:01] over there uh with respect to that more

[36:04] more so than on the lifespan side by the

[36:06] way we still have a lot of control in

[36:07] the lifespan side more more than people

[36:09] realize so genes play a very important

[36:11] role in extreme lifespan when you talk

[36:15] about people who live to 90 or 100 a lot

[36:18] of that is genetic um but for most of us

[36:22] even if we're not bestowed with ultra

[36:25] longevity genes we can still do a lot to

[36:29] reduce the risk of dying you know before

[36:32] the age of 80 or something like that I I

[36:35] thought about that and whether or not

[36:37] this is how it's meant to be thought of

[36:39] because we think about our career quite

[36:40] a bit I I was writing in my journal

[36:42] after we we talked about okay there's

[36:45] one version of this of how long can we

[36:47] have this channel last like how long can

[36:50] this format this content that we're

[36:52] creating last and then that's like the

[36:54] lifespan version of our Channel and then

[36:57] Health span version is and how long will

[36:59] I enjoy doing it yeah is kind of how I

[37:02] thought about it or another way to think

[37:03] of it is how because it's not directly

[37:06] tied to but it is quite correlated to

[37:09] the first point is how long will it

[37:11] continue to provide incredible value to

[37:13] the

[37:15] listeners that's that's good yeah I

[37:18] think that's like uh that's a really

[37:20] important one and how you stay on that

[37:24] track um without fear I think fear

[37:27] Creeps in quite a bit in this career

[37:29] very quickly fear of death of the

[37:31] channel right like so you you start is

[37:33] it fear of death of the channel or is it

[37:35] fear of decline of the

[37:37] product I mean and again those are

[37:39] linked what's the what's which one's

[37:42] actually coming first isn't isn't the

[37:44] death of the channel just a consequence

[37:46] of something else going wrong yeah yeah

[37:50] I think it's fear of decline of the

[37:51] product but I and I think a lot of that

[37:53] has um a lot of it is linked to process

[37:58] of creating the product and so I I think

[38:01] about that quite a bit of like the

[38:02] question you asked of like what has to

[38:04] be true if I want to be doing this in 10

[38:06] years you know one one thing that has

[38:08] been true about the last the last 10

[38:12] years is a lot of the job is a um

[38:17] relatively sedentary job meaning like we

[38:19] are sitting and working long hours on

[38:22] either editing um or working on

[38:26] pre-production

[38:27] uh traveling like it's a very hard job

[38:30] or at least we've experienced it to date

[38:33] um for a lot of creators to sink into a

[38:35] healthy routine because sometimes when

[38:39] you're experiencing like a creative

[38:40] moment that's going to take you late

[38:42] into the night and impact your sleep

[38:44] that's going to then you know turn into

[38:46] a morning where you're not going to work

[38:48] out that's going to turn into the next

[38:49] day where you have to meet this deadline

[38:51] and you're going to sit all day and edit

[38:53] and so that that is some of the stuff

[38:55] that I look at and I think as like our

[38:57] fellow creators would be interested in

[38:59] like how long can we do that how long

[39:02] can we make some of those trades and are

[39:05] should those happen in Sprints or how do

[39:08] we think about that as

[39:11] creatives well you know I mean I think

[39:14] it's all relative and I and I and I

[39:15] suppose that

[39:18] um the the younger you are the more you

[39:21] can get away with like I when I did my

[39:23] residency in surgery that was age

[39:29] 208 to 33 so from ages 28 to 33 I made

[39:35] you know enormous sacrifices to my

[39:37] health primarily through how little I

[39:40] slept and it wasn't by choice obviously

[39:42] it was like I didn't have a choice you

[39:44] were going to

[39:45] sleep I probably

[39:47] averaged 30 hours of sleep a week for

[39:50] five years so it's hard to be healthy

[39:53] when that's going on um wasn't eating

[39:56] well you know you're sort

[39:58] drinking inures at the nurses station

[40:00] eating whatever crap they have at the

[40:03] hospital um the one thing I made room

[40:05] for was exercise because that was just

[40:07] still something I was going to have to

[40:08] do regardless um but but many things in

[40:11] my life got compromised now you know

[40:14] once I was done with that I was able to

[40:16] sort of you know get get you know get

[40:19] get my life back together um but could I

[40:23] do that again today definitely not I I I

[40:26] couldn't make that s sacrifice again if

[40:28] I had to um it you know 20 years later

[40:31] that's just not something I could do

[40:35] so I I I do worry a little bit about the

[40:39] idea that we're g to just do this for

[40:41] now just do this for now just do this

[40:43] for now because that's a very slippery

[40:46] slope and you can blink your eyes and

[40:48] wake up tomorrow and you're it's 10

[40:50] years from now and you're still doing

[40:52] the same thing and I meet a lot of

[40:55] people who have traded their health for

[40:58] wealth and when they realize it it's a

[41:01] little too late to buy it back and

[41:03] obviously at some point you can't right

[41:05] at some point you know take an extreme

[41:07] example right if you take a person in

[41:08] the final decade of their life who's got

[41:11] all the money in the world and all the

[41:13] success and all the recognition and

[41:15] every Accolade you could have it doesn't

[41:18] really serve you that well when your

[41:19] health is gone so I know that's not the

[41:22] same as saying look someone who's in

[41:24] their 20s is doing a couple of all night

[41:26] Sprints to get content done so I'm not

[41:29] suggesting that one shouldn't do that if

[41:30] that's what's necessary but I'm

[41:32] suggesting that people take a step back

[41:34] and ask to what

[41:36] end what what what where is this

[41:38] actually going like is this really

[41:40] something I can convince myself as just

[41:42] something I got to do a couple times a

[41:44] year or is this very quickly going to

[41:46] become something I'm doing every week

[41:48] and if I'm doing it every week I really

[41:49] have to question some of the assumptions

[41:51] here why is this happening like why do I

[41:55] re am I understaffed do I not have

[41:57] enough people on my team am I not good

[42:00] at

[42:01] planning what there there has to be a

[42:03] reason that I'm staying I'm pulling two

[42:05] allnighters a week to get content done

[42:08] and and I and I would kind of dig into

[42:10] the process of why that's happening and

[42:13] what's solvable what resource can I put

[42:14] after this because our most precious

[42:18] resource is time not

[42:19] money time is everything um money is

[42:24] fungible time is not h

[42:27] so if someone's listening right now and

[42:29] they're you know the version of myself

[42:31] in my 20s which is basically editing

[42:34] very late into the night eating pretzels

[42:36] and chips and not working out and you

[42:39] know going out on the weekend sometimes

[42:41] but really not taking anything seriously

[42:43] when it comes to sleep nutrition

[42:45] exercise how do you rank those three

[42:48] sleep nutrition exercise if someone's

[42:50] going all right now I'm going to start

[42:51] to get

[42:52] serious how do you look at those three

[42:56] well the I mean honestly all of those

[42:58] things really matter for cognitive work

[43:01] and that's what you guys do right like

[43:04] you guys aren't getting paid for how

[43:07] strong you are how fast you can run how

[43:09] high you can jump like that's not what's

[43:11] paying you you're being paid for the

[43:13] quality of your cognitive processes

[43:16] these are creative processes uh but

[43:18] they're you know they're also uh

[43:21] processes of of problem solving and

[43:23] other things that go beyond just

[43:25] creativity but the point is the the

[43:27] brain has to be sort of well fueled so

[43:29] what do we know about this well we know

[43:30] that sleep deprivation right if you take

[43:32] a person and you sleep them six hours a

[43:34] night instead of eight hours a night

[43:36] chronically you know that's the

[43:38] equivalent of being legally

[43:41] drunk now you might say well that's okay

[43:43] because I work really well when I'm

[43:44] drunk but I think people would argue

[43:46] they probably don't right you're

[43:48] probably taking a hit to the quality of

[43:51] your work um if you have a blood alcohol

[43:54] above 008 again that doesn't mean like

[43:56] you're hammered and you're

[43:58] but it means that you are not at your

[44:01] best um now the good news is when you're

[44:05] 25 you're still at the peak of your

[44:08] what's called fluid

[44:09] intelligence right so you have you're

[44:11] you're peaking in fluid intelligence so

[44:14] you know memory processing speed all of

[44:17] those things so you might not take that

[44:19] much of a hit of course when you're my

[44:21] age you will because I'm long past the

[44:23] peak of my fluid intelligence I'm now

[44:25] climbing this second peak of crystal

[44:27] ized intelligence which is more judgment

[44:29] experiential

[44:30] based um so for me like not sleeping is

[44:35] a non-starter it just like it does it

[44:38] literally doesn't matter how bad the

[44:40] world is crumbling around me I am not

[44:43] going to let myself have two consecutive

[44:46] nights of six hours of sleep it does

[44:48] happen on the occasional night you know

[44:50] I've got a 4 a.m. flight or I mean a

[44:51] 4:00 a.m. departure for the airport for

[44:53] a 6 a.m. flight and I can't get to bed

[44:55] before you know 10 o'clock yep I'm gonna

[44:58] only be sleeping five and a half hours

[44:59] that night and it sucks looking at him

[45:01] because we have a 400 am. departure to

[45:03] the airport tomorrow morning yeah I had

[45:04] one yesterday so so it's like I get it

[45:07] um but that's not going to happen two

[45:08] nights in a row no way the price I will

[45:11] pay for that in terms of my quality of

[45:13] work is totally unacceptable and and

[45:16] let's be clear like I get paid for my

[45:19] brain no one pays me for how good I look

[45:21] or how bad I look no one pays me for how

[45:23] much I can dead hang or how many kettle

[45:25] bell swings I like nobody cares about

[45:27] any of that stuff every dollar I get

[45:31] paid is because of what's between my

[45:32] ears there's no chance I'm compromising

[45:35] that so that comes down to how much

[45:38] alcohol am I going to let myself drink

[45:40] how do I manage sleep how do I manage

[45:42] nutrition how do I exercise I mean

[45:44] exercise and sleep are probably the two

[45:47] greatest nutrients for the

[45:50] brain so can't I just can't sacrifice

[45:53] those so so I think even if you come at

[45:55] this through the lens of perform perance

[45:58] forget longevity who cares right when

[46:00] you're 25 what could you possibly care

[46:02] about that is 60 years away you don't

[46:05] and I wouldn't ask you to it's too

[46:06] abstract but if you think about it

[46:08] through the lens of

[46:10] performance it's to me that's that's

[46:12] reason

[46:13] enough that yeah I mean I think that

[46:16] that gets increasingly harder at least

[46:18] for for me when we go on these like long

[46:21] trips you know or or travel yeah a lot

[46:24] of that gets challenging and I'm curious

[46:26] about just just with sleep being a

[46:28] non-negotiable do is it okay to you

[46:31] utilize sleep supplements uh especially

[46:35] when I travel like it's harder for me in

[46:36] a new environment first night to to go

[46:38] to bed yeah I I mean I I think it it

[46:41] absolutely is I mean I us sleep I use

[46:43] things to facilitate sleep when I'm at

[46:45] home in my own bed like yeah I'm using

[46:47] an eight sleep uh I should disclose I'm

[46:49] an an adviser to eight sleep so people

[46:51] know that I have a conflict um but you

[46:53] know very very concerned with

[46:54] temperature um I used tons of not tons

[46:58] three or four supplements that Aid with

[46:59] sleep when I'm traveling um long

[47:01] distances so not in the US but if I'm

[47:03] off in Europe or I'm in the Middle East

[47:04] or wherever I am absolutely following a

[47:07] jet lag protocol um to make sure my

[47:10] sleep is not disrupted where I'm adding

[47:11] more things to my mix um and so yes I've

[47:15] got this down to like a formulaic

[47:16] science around managing sleep um you

[47:20] know little things like I make sure

[47:21] every gym I stay at even if I have to

[47:23] spend a little bit more or drive a

[47:24] little bit further it's got a good gym

[47:27] got it um and by the way if I'm at a gym

[47:29] like if I'm at a weird hotel that

[47:31] doesn't have a gym make sure it's tall

[47:32] enough that it's got steps that I can

[47:34] run up and down the steps for a workout

[47:35] like it's little things like that that

[47:37] you might think ah who wants to do all

[47:39] that well I don't know do you want to

[47:41] perform or not right like at some at

[47:43] some level you know people have to

[47:45] accept the fact that nothing you're

[47:47] accomplishing is happening by accident

[47:50] like you're very deliberate about your

[47:52] work right you are there's there's

[47:54] nothing you're doing that's just well

[47:56] we'll just kind let this not no yeah you

[47:58] you do you everything you're doing

[48:00] everything that anyone who's listening

[48:01] us is doing with the spect of the work

[48:02] is incredibly deliberate so you have to

[48:05] be deliberate about these other factors

[48:06] as well they don't happen by accident

[48:09] right you have to have the right food

[48:11] environment you have to travel with the

[48:12] right snacks you have to make the right

[48:14] amount of time to get a meal if that's

[48:16] something you're going to prioritize um

[48:19] you know picking the right Hotel takes

[48:20] more time get it but that's that's being

[48:23] deliberate like you would never shoot a

[48:25] video and just it without editing it but

[48:28] that's what many people are doing in

[48:30] their lives so why are if you did that

[48:33] your videos would suck so why is it that

[48:35] people are surprised that if they put no

[48:38] thought into you know how they plan

[48:40] meals and exercise and sleep that those

[48:42] things suck of course they're gonna suck

[48:45] so this is directly correlated we got

[48:46] some questions from creators that I want

[48:48] to uh play for you throughout this

[48:49] conversation um but this is this is

[48:51] pretty correlated to this question from

[48:53] uh Drew hey Peter my name is Drew binsky

[48:56] I am a travel content creator and always

[48:58] on the move and I had a question about

[49:00] burnouts so the last three trips I've

[49:01] taken in Iran China and India I've come

[49:04] home super sick and I am one to push

[49:06] myself to the limits but it's been too

[49:08] much and I usually never get sick so I

[49:10] was wondering what can I do to fix that

[49:12] is it sleep I've been averaging 4 to 5

[49:14] hours a night uh is it taking more

[49:16] vitamin supplements is it working out in

[49:18] the hotel rooms is it taking a break

[49:20] what kind of things can I do to make

[49:21] sure that I come home feeling excited

[49:23] and energetic and just not sick thank

[49:26] you so much for all you

[49:27] do so I would say just listening to what

[49:30] he said probably the sleep is the best

[49:32] explanation if you're uh if you're at

[49:34] four to five hours a night your immune

[49:36] system is basically shutting down um and

[49:39] so it's not at all surprising that that

[49:41] he's going to come home and um his his

[49:45] body is just going to kind of collapse

[49:46] the other thing that's actually going on

[49:47] there um is he his his um without

[49:52] getting too medical jargony his

[49:54] glucocorticoids are really ramping up to

[49:57] support the stress that he's under what

[49:59] was that word yeah so glucocorticoids

[50:01] are um the stress hormones that help us

[50:04] cope with chronic stress so cortisol

[50:08] you've probably heard of cortisol so

[50:09] that's that's kind of like the the the

[50:11] the most important of these hormones and

[50:13] so these hormones are really important

[50:15] when we're under chronic stress even

[50:17] acute stress but especially into this

[50:19] chronic stress where they continue to

[50:21] put more glucose into our circulation to

[50:23] keep our brain functioning um they ramp

[50:26] up other stress hormones like uh

[50:28] adrenaline and

[50:30] noradrenaline and what happens a lot of

[50:32] times is someone comes back from a

[50:34] situation like that and maybe you guys

[50:36] have experienced this and they just

[50:39] completely get sick right yeah and I

[50:42] think a lot of things are happening one

[50:43] is the immune issue that I mentioned

[50:45] with respect to sleep catches up with

[50:46] them but I think the other thing is

[50:48] their endocrine system sort of

[50:50] downregulates very acutely because it

[50:52] finally gets to turn itself off so this

[50:53] is a system that's only meant to be on

[50:55] for short periods of time time and then

[50:57] let's just say he's talking about like a

[50:59] 7-Day Whirlwind tour he's just had it on

[51:02] for seven straight days so the minute he

[51:04] comes home it's like okay finally I can

[51:06] shut this off and it shuts it off but it

[51:09] overcorrects and so now he's got none of

[51:12] these glucocorticoids he's got no energy

[51:14] his immune systems shut down so again

[51:17] what would I say to somebody like that

[51:19] well honestly he's no different than the

[51:21] CEO who's flying around you know the CEO

[51:24] of the Fortune 50 company who's flying

[51:26] who's got to do like the 10 City tour in

[51:28] seven days and honestly what I say to

[51:30] them is you got to make a trade-off do

[51:33] fewer cities or spend more time on the

[51:35] road so that you're not as rushed as you

[51:38] are like those are the only two ways to

[51:40] make this happen right so you can either

[51:42] say fine I'm I'm GNA instead in seven

[51:45] days instead of doing 10 visits I'm

[51:47] going to do six and I have a little bit

[51:49] more time each day but if he says no I I

[51:52] can't do that I have to do all 10 then I

[51:53] said then make it 10 days but he's like

[51:55] oh I can't be away from my family for

[51:56] that long

[51:57] like yeah I didn't say this was going to

[51:59] be easy I'm just telling you those are

[52:00] your choices right what about in terms

[52:04] of recovery because we're we're not

[52:05] going to China and the places that that

[52:07] Drew is going but you know we were in

[52:09] Dallas last week we're going to New York

[52:11] tomorrow and inevitably when we get back

[52:13] there is that like it's always three

[52:16] days of just lower energy kind of a

[52:18] slump trying to get back in the habit of

[52:20] working out what can we do in terms of

[52:23] recovery even if we do do a good job

[52:25] right of like space faing things out

[52:27] getting our sleep what can we do when we

[52:29] get back in terms of recovery um I mean

[52:32] I I think you just have to I think

[52:34] you'll generally if you really

[52:35] scrutinize what's going on the fact that

[52:37] it's taking you three days to get back

[52:39] tells me something's not fully optimiz

[52:41] he said we but he meant I just just so

[52:43] you know that's not me that's him all

[52:45] right two days for two days for you okay

[52:47] so I would I mean I would push I would

[52:48] push on that and try to understand

[52:49] what's really happening when you're in

[52:51] New York because it shouldn't take two

[52:53] days for you to recover if you're doing

[52:57] everything right so my guess is if you

[52:59] are scrutinizing it you might not be

[53:00] sleeping that well if if you think you

[53:02] are um you're maybe timing your flights

[53:06] not well um I know that obviously you're

[53:08] going to have to leave super early in

[53:09] the morning so it's like so the question

[53:11] is are you able to go to bed early

[53:12] enough tonight that that's not going to

[53:14] be disruptive and by the way it's great

[53:16] that you're going to bed at or getting

[53:18] up at 4: because you're getting up at 7

[53:19] New York time so that's great but you

[53:22] have to go to bed tonight at New York

[53:24] time so if you'd go to bed at 11:00 New

[53:27] York time it means you actually have to

[53:28] go to bed at 8:00 tonight well that's

[53:31] not easy to do if you woke up at 8:00

[53:34] this morning sure so you you know you

[53:35] almost have to start the planning a day

[53:37] before and that's something I typically

[53:39] do for I don't you know for me going to

[53:41] New York is only a two-hour time zone so

[53:42] it's not bigal but if I'm going to

[53:44] Europe my planning for that trip starts

[53:46] a day before it's the full day before

[53:49] what time do I go to bed what time do I

[53:51] wake up how do I use my workout as a way

[53:53] to exhaust me even more and then of

[53:55] course what supplements am I using to to

[53:56] help me sleep on the plane so that I can

[53:58] get into the Europe time zone the second

[54:01] I leave the US okay so you you brought

[54:03] up this um notion of like I mean all of

[54:06] us sitting here get paid for our brain

[54:08] and I think that's a lot of creatives

[54:10] and a actually it's like a lot of people

[54:12] who work basically yeah that that's your

[54:14] income driver that's right um there's a

[54:16] question from uh our friend Eric that I

[54:19] want to bring up here all right this is

[54:21] a second take in case you decide to use

[54:22] this that's more concise Peter big fan

[54:26] uh question for you in the Creator

[54:28] business you can replace yourself in a

[54:30] lot of ways but the the main thing you

[54:32] can replace yourself with is creative

[54:34] it's the thing that gets every Creator

[54:36] where they are uh and it all comes down

[54:38] to you at the end of the

[54:40] day currently I basically get creative

[54:43] in completely random spurts which I

[54:45] think a lot of people could relate to

[54:47] and I'm wondering if you have any ideas

[54:50] thoughts or science on how to optimize

[54:52] creativity or to get into a creative

[54:55] space uh uh on command thank you big

[55:00] fed I am not sure about getting into a

[55:03] creative space on demand but I do think

[55:06] that there is a pretty decent body of

[55:08] literature on creativity that suggests

[55:10] you have to create room for it so uh I

[55:14] don't know if you guys have read Ryan

[55:16] holidays book Stillness is the key yep I

[55:18] love Ryan yeah so uh I and I would put

[55:21] Stillness as one of the 10 most

[55:23] important books that I've read right so

[55:25] I love I mean I read a lot um but but if

[55:29] you forced me to say like what are the

[55:30] 10 most important books that have kind

[55:32] of shaped how you think about the world

[55:34] and think about life I I would put

[55:36] Stillness on that list of 10 I believe

[55:39] and so so what you learn in there is as

[55:42] painful as it is we have to get

[55:45] comfortable with Stillness to to sort of

[55:49] come up with really good ideas and it's

[55:52] very difficult to hit those things on

[55:54] demand um and you know there there's no

[55:57] shortage of stories of like some of the

[55:59] greatest works of creativity coming out

[56:02] of years of frustration and toiling and

[56:06] doing seemingly nothing so my intuition

[56:10] as someone again who is not an expert on

[56:12] this and truthfully someone who doesn't

[56:14] consider himself very creative I mean

[56:16] probably I am for my field I'm creative

[56:19] I don't think I'm creative compared to

[56:21] to you and your audience um but I know

[56:25] that some of my greatest

[56:27] ideas uh generally come to me when I'm

[56:29] doing

[56:31] nothing yeah making space for boredom is

[56:33] so hard right now yeah when you say

[56:35] nothing what do you mean what does that

[56:37] look

[56:39] like so it means uh so I like to Ruck

[56:43] right so you take uh you know you put a

[56:45] heavy backpack on like a backpack with

[56:47] weights and go for a walk that's nothing

[56:51] well it's nothing in that I don't have

[56:52] anything stimulating me right like I

[56:54] don't have my phone with me I'm not

[56:56] listening to a podcast like I'm such an

[56:58] information addict that it's very

[57:02] difficult for me to do things without

[57:04] also multitasking and bringing in

[57:06] information so you know I'm riding my

[57:08] bike on a stationary trainer three or

[57:10] four days a week well I'm always

[57:11] listening to an audio book or a podcast

[57:14] um so I just kind of make the rucking

[57:16] the exception which is I'm gonna go do

[57:18] this thing and I'm not going to listen

[57:19] to music I'm not going to listen to a

[57:20] podcast I'm not g I'm not going to be on

[57:22] a phone call I'm just going to walk and

[57:26] the only thing I can pretty much hear is

[57:27] my heavy breathing with this weight on

[57:30] my back

[57:32] um sitting in the sauna same sort of

[57:35] thing just sort of sitting there um

[57:37] another opportunity of kind of not doing

[57:40] much

[57:42] um sometimes it's just if I'm on a plane

[57:45] disciplining myself to close my laptop

[57:48] and just maybe listen to music which

[57:50] again doesn't seem like a bad thing to

[57:52] do but for me seems like oh my God like

[57:55] I'm not working I'm not working I'm not

[57:56] working you know this is such an

[57:58] important window of time in which I

[57:59] could be getting work done but if I'm

[58:01] feeling really tired and by the way

[58:03] another sign for me that I'm

[58:05] really um working too hard is when I

[58:09] have a lot of task switching going on

[58:11] I'm sure you guys can relate to this

[58:13] right so I've got I've got Chrome open

[58:15] I've got email open I've got WhatsApp

[58:18] open I've got iMessage open and I've got

[58:21] a spreadsheet that I'm building a model

[58:23] in and I've got a word dock that I'm

[58:24] writing a memo in and when I can't stop

[58:27] task switching I'm like shut this

[58:29] goddamn thing down it's broken you're

[58:32] not you're not thinking anymore if

[58:34] you're if you cannot stop going back and

[58:36] forth and I get these dumb thoughts like

[58:38] oh my God I got to go read about the

[58:39] latest like I got to read the latest

[58:41] blog on F1 let me just go read that

[58:42] really quick okay yeah yeah okay that's

[58:44] really good okay let me go back to

[58:45] writing this letter yeah yeah yeah oh

[58:46] gosh you know what I I want to look up

[58:48] this on Wikipedia like I I want to

[58:49] really understand like I find myself

[58:51] there a lot which is strange because

[58:53] historically I'm actually really good at

[58:54] focusing yeah like always in college in

[58:57] high school and our career and that's

[58:58] why I've always edited because I can

[59:00] lock in and I can sit there but in the

[59:03] last year or so I find myself in that

[59:05] position so often yeah and same with me

[59:07] like I think I

[59:08] I if Focus was an Olympic sport I would

[59:11] have been the Michael Phelps of it um I

[59:14] would not yeah no I'm I am I consider

[59:17] myself that way too like I can I could

[59:19] go to the library in college and just

[59:21] lock in wow yeah so when I'm not yeah

[59:24] that's a sign shut it down shut it all

[59:26] down cuz you're not getting any work

[59:28] done at that point down like what do you

[59:30] do nothing sit there and suffer sit

[59:33] there and suffer in silence got it yep

[59:37] and let it all work itself out I mean

[59:39] but you're not being productive you just

[59:40] have to accept the fact when you were

[59:42] task switching between eight things you

[59:44] were getting nothing done of any

[59:46] substance so why waste any more time go

[59:49] through the purge and then come

[59:51] back that's scary it's scary to do that

[59:54] because you feel like it's uh the thing

[59:56] that'll make you feel better is getting

[59:58] something done you know like I know that

[59:59] experience so intimately um but I I I

[1:00:04] like I also know what it feels like in

[1:00:05] my body to be there and it's a terrible

[1:00:07] feeling so that that that's a good well

[1:00:10] again I mean this is just a great

[1:00:12] example Michael Easter has written about

[1:00:14] this a lot like going back to Evolution

[1:00:16] like do you know how much Evolution made

[1:00:19] boredom

[1:00:21] painful think about it like do you think

[1:00:24] natural selection wanted you just

[1:00:26] sitting around twiddling your thumbs

[1:00:28] looking at the

[1:00:29] stars I mean no way you were going to

[1:00:32] get eaten you were not going to find a

[1:00:34] mate and you were not going to find

[1:00:36] food you had to be thinking about like

[1:00:40] okay where do I need to go what do I

[1:00:41] need to so boredom is again we are very

[1:00:45] selected for boredom to

[1:00:47] hurt the the the members of our species

[1:00:50] who liked being bored got eaten or

[1:00:53] didn't pass their jeans on that's why

[1:00:56] not here right same same with the

[1:00:58] negativity bias the people who didn't

[1:01:00] have negativity bias they got kicked out

[1:01:02] of the tribe they died we don't have

[1:01:04] their genes anymore I mean natural

[1:01:06] selection is a remarkable honing tool

[1:01:09] yeah but again it's an example of how um

[1:01:13] you know it's a two-edged sword it is

[1:01:16] good I think that boredom hurts because

[1:01:18] it drives us to do things it drives us

[1:01:20] to be Innovative um it's just that in

[1:01:23] the

[1:01:24] last probably the last 15 years we may

[1:01:28] have flipped over in a world where

[1:01:30] there's so much stimulation that our

[1:01:34] ability to uh to dissuade boredom has

[1:01:37] become actually

[1:01:39] counterproductive when it comes to

[1:01:41] boredom in your career I want to go back

[1:01:43] to that question that you were asking

[1:01:46] yourself about like what does my career

[1:01:47] have to look like so that in 10 years

[1:01:50] I'm not bored by it do you have an

[1:01:51] answer to that

[1:01:56] yeah I mean I think it depends which of

[1:01:57] my careers because again there's like I

[1:01:59] have all of these different careers if

[1:02:01] you're talking about in the content side

[1:02:03] of things yeah yeah it I still have to

[1:02:06] absolutely love um you know get get joy

[1:02:11] out of the Curiosity that comes from you

[1:02:13] know because what the content I create

[1:02:15] is is about interviewing people right

[1:02:18] and um and the reason I started the

[1:02:21] podcast which has been six uh yeah it's

[1:02:24] probably been a little over six years

[1:02:25] years ago was I just realized like I

[1:02:28] keep having these conversations with

[1:02:30] scientists and they're so fascinating

[1:02:33] and at the end of the conversation I

[1:02:34] always think to myself oh I wish others

[1:02:35] could have heard that um so then I you

[1:02:38] know so it's like well this is what I

[1:02:39] want to do right I want to talk about

[1:02:41] science without dumbing it down but

[1:02:43] making it accessible to everybody and if

[1:02:46] that stops being enjoyable to me then I

[1:02:49] have nothing to do in that regard and

[1:02:51] and I would be okay saying well then

[1:02:52] this is not what I'm going to do um if

[1:02:54] if not communicating science uh and and

[1:02:57] and Medicine you know doesn't get me

[1:03:00] excited Then I then I shouldn't do it

[1:03:02] the thing I really appreciate about your

[1:03:03] model and I actually have been thinking

[1:03:05] about this a lot is that it's not an

[1:03:07] addback model which then you know for us

[1:03:10] we're an addback model right which means

[1:03:12] which is most podcasts almost everyone

[1:03:14] which then means performance of episodes

[1:03:16] is at the is at the height and that can

[1:03:19] sometimes be um at odds with like

[1:03:22] enjoyment of conversation yep not always

[1:03:25] rarely right now but as I look on a 10e

[1:03:28] window what I recognized like my answer

[1:03:30] to that question is I

[1:03:32] think in when I look at this of enjoying

[1:03:34] this in 10 years means that I don't have

[1:03:37] immense performance pressure I have

[1:03:40] pressure to provide value to the

[1:03:42] audience but not as much pressure in

[1:03:45] explosive viewership or listenership and

[1:03:49] I think the membership model that you

[1:03:50] have is actually something that I look

[1:03:53] at I'm very inspired by of where I want

[1:03:54] to get to so that that is not a factor

[1:03:58] in the future for us yeah I

[1:04:01] am really grateful when we decided in

[1:04:05] 2019 that hey okay we've done this for

[1:04:07] you know six months people seem to

[1:04:09] really like it you know I got to I got

[1:04:11] to cover my cost here like I'm you know

[1:04:14] both my opportunity cost and my actual

[1:04:15] cost um and you're right I think at the

[1:04:17] time there was only one other person I

[1:04:20] knew that wasn't doing an ad-based model

[1:04:23] um which was Sam Harris yeah and you

[1:04:26] know Sam and I are very close friends we

[1:04:27] talked about it a bunch and it was just

[1:04:28] kind of a no-brainer I I actually never

[1:04:30] really entertained doing ads um no

[1:04:33] offense I just I struggle with with

[1:04:35] podcast advertising models because I

[1:04:37] don't I don't find them genuine right

[1:04:38] like at least when you're watching TV

[1:04:40] the ad is coming from the company that

[1:04:42] is selling something so it's like okay

[1:04:45] like you want to buy a Coke like Coke

[1:04:47] has made the ad that is trying to get me

[1:04:48] to buy coke I always find it funny when

[1:04:50] the podcast person is reading the ad as

[1:04:53] though they love Coke which is like

[1:04:54] really do you really love Coke or they

[1:04:56] just paying you to say that you love

[1:04:57] Coke like it doesn't make any sense to

[1:04:58] me um also for what I do I just think

[1:05:01] there's a credibility

[1:05:04] of which is different for most most

[1:05:06] people in their podcast it's not a hit

[1:05:07] to their credibility to sell an ad I

[1:05:09] think in what I do it would be very

[1:05:11] destructive to my credibility um but

[1:05:13] you're absolutely right it means that I

[1:05:15] focus all of my energy

[1:05:17] on like curiosity and and and relevance

[1:05:20] and and how do I how do I make something

[1:05:22] that's great so if you look like I'm not

[1:05:24] trying to interview famous people right

[1:05:27] which is that's how you if you want if

[1:05:29] you want to interview famous people like

[1:05:30] that's how you're going to kind of grow

[1:05:32] but but the truth of it is the most

[1:05:34] interesting people in my world are not

[1:05:37] famous right like the I mean even people

[1:05:40] who have won Nobel prizes they're not

[1:05:42] famous outside of their scientific

[1:05:44] community so um I like the idea that I

[1:05:48] get to interview people who you will

[1:05:50] otherwise never figure out who they are

[1:05:52] and for two or three hours I want to

[1:05:55] expose The Listener to as much of their

[1:05:57] world as possible and and how it

[1:05:59] pertains to you know the future of of

[1:06:01] our health yeah what has it been like to

[1:06:05] essentially become famous within your

[1:06:07] field because I would imagine you are

[1:06:09] essentially especially within the world

[1:06:10] of medicine and Longevity famous how has

[1:06:14] that felt to you yeah I you know I don't

[1:06:17] I don't really perceive it to be

[1:06:18] completely honest with you um and I'm

[1:06:20] not

[1:06:22] sure um I mean I'm not disagreeing with

[1:06:25] you although I think if you had said

[1:06:26] this a year ago I would have been like I

[1:06:27] don't really know but I mean yeah I I I

[1:06:30] guess to some extent it is um I think I

[1:06:32] would describe it as micr Fame like it's

[1:06:34] not fame fame right like I know what

[1:06:36] fame fame is because I I I I see it all

[1:06:38] the time and I I have many friends who

[1:06:40] are legit famous where you know they

[1:06:42] can't go anywhere um for me it's

[1:06:45] like three or four times a day someone

[1:06:48] will come up to me you know in a

[1:06:50] restaurant or an airport and say thank

[1:06:52] you so much for your work I really love

[1:06:53] it can I get a selfie and honestly at

[1:06:56] that level it's just it's an honor it's

[1:06:58] not an inconvenience it it

[1:07:00] feels uh it feels great that and people

[1:07:03] always say basically the same thing

[1:07:04] which is they're thanking me which is I

[1:07:06] think uh means a lot to me so it's it's

[1:07:08] it's a it's a huge honor that that

[1:07:10] people say that kind of stuff yeah

[1:07:11] they're there for Value it's like thank

[1:07:13] you for Value not like they're like

[1:07:15] thank you for the work you're doing look

[1:07:17] how hot petera is let me take a selfie

[1:07:18] with EXA it's exactly right which might

[1:07:21] happen too don't discount that it's

[1:07:22] never happened but I put ourselves in a

[1:07:24] similar boat of when people come up it's

[1:07:26] generally like hey thanks for that show

[1:07:29] yeah I want to ask you about just like

[1:07:31] the you know I I think when I was

[1:07:34] younger being an entrepreneur was

[1:07:36] very um appealing because my father's an

[1:07:39] entrepreneur and it got even

[1:07:42] increasingly more appealing during the

[1:07:45] internet age when we saw movies like The

[1:07:47] Social Network and saw like Marx

[1:07:49] Zuckerberg a young kid able to create

[1:07:51] something you know and so like being an

[1:07:52] entrepreneur became very very um sexy

[1:07:56] and I'm looking at my dad in his 70s

[1:08:00] now and I'm noticing I'm very aware of

[1:08:04] the uh amount of stress he's endured

[1:08:08] through his whole life uh it's kind of

[1:08:10] his Natural State on a day-to-day is

[1:08:13] that he wakes up and kind of requires a

[1:08:15] problem to

[1:08:16] solve he really can't like even in now

[1:08:19] in in the space where he doesn't need to

[1:08:20] solve a problem he creates problems to

[1:08:23] solve because that's his Natural State

[1:08:25] and I'm curious about as I'm looking at

[1:08:27] myself I I feel very much like that too

[1:08:30] and I'm curious about the impact of

[1:08:32] chronic stress over long periods of time

[1:08:35] as an

[1:08:36] entrepreneur what does that where does

[1:08:38] that net us out because he has a lot of

[1:08:39] health problems too he's got uh chronic

[1:08:42] kidney disease He's Got U diabetes like

[1:08:44] he's he he has a lot of health issues

[1:08:47] and I can't help but look at that and go

[1:08:50] is that the fate of the amount of stress

[1:08:53] he's endured in his life and his

[1:08:56] desire on a day-to-day basis to endure

[1:08:59] more well it's really hard to say on any

[1:09:02] one individual's case um you know it it

[1:09:06] it's probably more the case that as a

[1:09:09] result of the stress or the the strategy

[1:09:13] that's been chosen to manage the stress

[1:09:15] that some other things also were

[1:09:18] compromised such as his nutrition his

[1:09:20] exercise his sleep and that maybe the

[1:09:23] chronic diseases are are more the result

[1:09:25] of the imbalance around those things

[1:09:27] stress is clearly something that our

[1:09:30] relationship exists with on an inverted

[1:09:32] U right so so if this is stress and then

[1:09:37] this is performance on the y- axis

[1:09:40] stress on the x-axis it's it's basically

[1:09:42] an inverted U right so really really low

[1:09:44] levels of stress do not produce good

[1:09:47] performance right yeah like if you have

[1:09:49] no stress if there's nothing driving you

[1:09:51] like what are you doing right totally so

[1:09:54] as stress goes up your performance is

[1:09:56] actually going to get better but then

[1:09:58] and by the way it's not a symmetric U

[1:10:00] right and everybody's U is a different

[1:10:02] shape so some people have a u that just

[1:10:04] has a little tick at the top right so

[1:10:06] more and more and more stress leads to

[1:10:08] better and better better performance and

[1:10:09] then it just kind of ticks down other

[1:10:11] people have a u that like gets better

[1:10:13] and better and better and then it very

[1:10:15] quickly comes down so so you have to

[1:10:17] kind of know yourself there's a little

[1:10:18] bit of know thyself in this analysis but

[1:10:21] what you have to figure out is like

[1:10:23] what's my optimal level of stress for

[1:10:25] per performance and recognize when am I

[1:10:28] over that right that's a very important

[1:10:31] thing is you know you have to be able to

[1:10:33] get sort of internal feedback so an

[1:10:36] example is like what we talked about

[1:10:37] earlier when I'm task switching like

[1:10:39] crazy I'm past my level I've already

[1:10:41] gone over the edge so I have to come

[1:10:44] back so so that's an example of

[1:10:48] understanding that the other thing you

[1:10:49] want to understand is the shape of your

[1:10:51] curve is malleable by the other things

[1:10:54] you put in the system

[1:10:55] so take away my sleep take away my

[1:10:58] exercise my curve got way narrower make

[1:11:01] sense if I don't have a workout in me

[1:11:03] I'm going to go over that curve much

[1:11:06] sooner than if I am in if I just had a

[1:11:09] two-hour workout and a great meal if my

[1:11:12] relationships are not good like if my

[1:11:15] wife and I have a fight my curve just

[1:11:18] got way smaller my performance is going

[1:11:19] to deteriorate much sooner if I had a

[1:11:22] fight with my daughter if my kids left

[1:11:24] for school they were unhappy and I

[1:11:26] didn't get to walk them and blah like

[1:11:28] just you you life impacts the shape of

[1:11:31] that curve so what we really want to do

[1:11:34] is two things one understand the things

[1:11:36] that we do that stretch that curve out

[1:11:38] to be its biggest highest furthest J

[1:11:42] Apex and then secondly learn what the

[1:11:45] dashboard looks like for when am I

[1:11:46] tripping over the curve yeah that that's

[1:11:49] really interest I I love that learning

[1:11:51] when you are tripping over that my my

[1:11:53] mind immediately obviously went to

[1:11:55] myself but also our team and recognizing

[1:11:58] like how do you build a healthy

[1:12:01] workplace environment where everyone has

[1:12:03] variable levels and everyone came in in

[1:12:05] the morning with a different that's

[1:12:07] right everyone's and by the way

[1:12:09] everyone's going to have their own

[1:12:10] different curve but then each person's

[1:12:11] curve is going to be different on a

[1:12:13] given day based on their life and what

[1:12:15] they bring in from home and you know I

[1:12:18] mean I think I don't know how much of

[1:12:19] your team is remote versus in person but

[1:12:21] the more remote your team is which is

[1:12:23] unfortunately true of and my team is

[1:12:25] we're all uh you know located in

[1:12:28] different places it makes it just that

[1:12:30] much harder to to sort of figure that

[1:12:32] out because a lot of times you can't

[1:12:34] pick up on these things you know over

[1:12:36] the phone or over Zoom the way you can

[1:12:37] pick it up you can pick up on it a

[1:12:39] little more kind of around the

[1:12:40] proverbial water cooler it's an

[1:12:42] interesting thing to imagine if everyone

[1:12:44] had that like visible graph in front of

[1:12:46] them right like if you were looking at

[1:12:48] someone and they had that graph and you

[1:12:49] were recognizing where they would be

[1:12:50] amazing like just to just to be able to

[1:12:52] sort of everybody walks in every day you

[1:12:54] see the shape of their curve based on

[1:12:55] what happened and you see where they are

[1:12:57] on the curve yeah I wonder CU like

[1:12:59] creativity happens in teams right I

[1:13:01] think um also at the event that at the

[1:13:03] spotter Summit that we were at J.J

[1:13:04] Abrams was there and he was talking

[1:13:06] about creativity in the context of teams

[1:13:08] and like when a team gets too big it's

[1:13:10] hard to you know do creativity by

[1:13:13] committee y there's like a singular

[1:13:15] artistic voice and then you need a team

[1:13:16] to surround to Foster that creativity

[1:13:20] but in small teams you also need to

[1:13:22] really know where is everyone everyone

[1:13:25] at today y otherwise it's not going to

[1:13:27] be effective and also that can quickly

[1:13:29] compound to not collaborating well right

[1:13:31] there's definitely days where there's

[1:13:32] frustration between team members because

[1:13:35] someone just has a short fuse yeah right

[1:13:37] and this work is hard you're doing

[1:13:39] detail oriented cuts on extremely long

[1:13:42] episodes pressure of last episode didn't

[1:13:44] do so well so now this one has a ton of

[1:13:46] stakes to it and so all those Dynamics

[1:13:49] is something that we've been thinking

[1:13:50] about I think a lot of creators think

[1:13:51] about too as you build a creative team

[1:13:54] what what what do you think some of the

[1:13:56] strategies are is it like just open

[1:13:57] communication around where you yeah I

[1:14:00] mean when I think about like the most

[1:14:01] creative of my teams is is obviously the

[1:14:03] the content team and

[1:14:06] luckily I don't know I mean I just look

[1:14:08] at the guy who runs that team his name

[1:14:09] is Nick Stenson um you know I think I

[1:14:13] think Nick and I know each other very

[1:14:14] well so we've worked together

[1:14:17] for 10 or 12 years now um so we're very

[1:14:21] very

[1:14:22] close um and we don't have a time

[1:14:25] disagreeing with each other

[1:14:28] um and the team is small enough that

[1:14:33] like we we can push back on each other a

[1:14:36] lot got it um and even though I'm like

[1:14:39] quote unquote the boss the structure is

[1:14:41] purely horizontal so everybody on that

[1:14:44] team will tell me I'm absolutely full of

[1:14:46] [ __ ] when they think I am like they and

[1:14:49] sometimes actually it hurts my feelings

[1:14:51] like sometimes they are so brutal with

[1:14:53] me that I'm like I'm pissed piss off

[1:14:55] like I'm not going to lie right so but

[1:14:57] but that's really good like like there's

[1:15:00] no sense of we can't tell Peter what we

[1:15:03] think right um and and then on top of

[1:15:08] that like we we and and I'm sure this is

[1:15:10] something you guys do as well

[1:15:13] like when when we screw up we're pretty

[1:15:16] quick to apologize like we don't let the

[1:15:18] sun set on a fight sure right so we had

[1:15:20] a pretty big blow up three or four

[1:15:22] months ago like the biggest blowup we've

[1:15:24] ever had as a team it probably happened

[1:15:27] at 10:00 in the morning by noon by 11:00

[1:15:31] I was

[1:15:32] apologizing before we went for dinner

[1:15:34] that night we apologize you know we all

[1:15:36] hugged and made up again so it it's

[1:15:38] important I think it's people need to

[1:15:40] understand something about disagreements

[1:15:42] the damage of a disagreement is not the

[1:15:45] disagreement it's in the lack of

[1:15:47] reconciliation this is important you

[1:15:49] guys will learn this when you have kids

[1:15:51] you know you already know this because

[1:15:52] you're married it's not that you

[1:15:53] shouldn't fight with your wife it's how

[1:15:55] do you fight right can you do it without

[1:15:57] name calling and how do you reconcile

[1:15:59] when you're in the wrong and if you're

[1:16:01] anything like me you're going to be in

[1:16:03] the wrong 90% of the time W wives are

[1:16:05] generally right if we're being brutally

[1:16:07] honest like 90% of the time my wife and

[1:16:09] I have a fight it's my fault um and so

[1:16:12] it's not that we had a fight it's can I

[1:16:14] can I reconcile pretty quickly um can I

[1:16:17] can I um can I calm myself down enough

[1:16:19] to realize I was wrong do I have the

[1:16:21] humility to to own it and to apologize

[1:16:24] earnestly and explain why I'm just you

[1:16:26] know I'm going to be better next time

[1:16:28] and so I think that's true with teams

[1:16:29] and I think teams that can fight and

[1:16:31] make up quickly um are probably the best

[1:16:34] teams there are it's interesting the

[1:16:36] through this conversation some my

[1:16:38] biggest takeaways are Stillness and

[1:16:40] space because some of the challenges

[1:16:42] there are when you don't even have the

[1:16:44] space to reconcile or you don't even

[1:16:45] have the space to have that conversation

[1:16:47] because you're so your your cup is so

[1:16:49] full that you just have to get to the

[1:16:50] next thing yeah you know what I mean

[1:16:53] like that that I think as

[1:16:55] um running a company that's where I'm

[1:16:57] looking at it now and going like how do

[1:16:58] we how do we create more space because

[1:17:01] right now we are thing to thing to thing

[1:17:02] to thing really quickly and sometimes

[1:17:05] those things you'll let them you'll let

[1:17:06] them pass over because you're like I

[1:17:08] don't even I don't know how long that's

[1:17:09] going to take so I don't know if I have

[1:17:11] the space to sit and

[1:17:14] reconcile I think you got to make it

[1:17:16] it's tough but I think you got to make

[1:17:17] it you have to especially if you can

[1:17:20] work your get your mind to realize that

[1:17:23] it's it's actually it's an investment

[1:17:26] yeah it's a product it doesn't feel like

[1:17:27] it but it is an investment it's just

[1:17:29] like you would invest in capex you know

[1:17:31] if you were manufacturing

[1:17:33] process all right I got a fun one to end

[1:17:35] on here from uh another

[1:17:38] Creator hey Peter it's Jordan matter for

[1:17:41] a YouTuber I'm like old really old but I

[1:17:43] want to be even older I actually want to

[1:17:45] be the first 100y old YouTuber what is

[1:17:47] the number one thing I have to do to get

[1:17:49] there so short to the point short to the

[1:17:51] point I think I think Jordan has over 20

[1:17:53] million subscribers I think he's 50

[1:17:54] years old old so he wants to do this

[1:17:56] until he's 100 what what does he have to

[1:17:58] do to get there boy this is I mean

[1:18:00] that's a great example of what we talked

[1:18:02] about earlier right he's got to he's got

[1:18:03] to do the longevity on both fronts

[1:18:07] um uh well my recollection because I

[1:18:09] remember meeting him in February he

[1:18:10] seemed like he was he was doing a lot of

[1:18:12] things right um but honestly if you're

[1:18:14] going to get to 100 you kind of have to

[1:18:15] do everything right that's that's

[1:18:18] there's no guarantee you're getting to

[1:18:19] 100 that's that's you're in really

[1:18:21] really rarified Air at that point um so

[1:18:25] one is you got so one of the the One

[1:18:27] Import most important thing he has to do

[1:18:29] is too late which is you have to pick

[1:18:30] the right parents so he's 50 years too

[1:18:33] late for that because his genes are set

[1:18:35] so if he doesn't have centenarian

[1:18:38] genes uh like I don't pretty unlikely

[1:18:41] you're going to live to 100 but let's

[1:18:42] just assume that you're going to take

[1:18:44] everything that's modifiable at that

[1:18:46] point you're doing everything possible

[1:18:48] right you're you're you know you're

[1:18:50] managing your lipids your blood pressure

[1:18:52] your glucose all of those things to

[1:18:55] the level of what somebody would have

[1:18:56] had in their 20s so you're you know and

[1:18:58] that probably includes a lot of

[1:19:00] pharmacology to keep those things in

[1:19:02] perfect shape um you're

[1:19:04] exercising you know probably you know an

[1:19:08] hour six days a week and you know being

[1:19:10] well thought out between how much of

[1:19:12] that is strength training versus cardio

[1:19:14] you know not going too too hard and

[1:19:16] creating you know the risk of injury but

[1:19:18] but also being very consistent and not

[1:19:20] having long periods of time where you're

[1:19:21] missing it um you're not eating too much

[1:19:23] but you're eating enough protein you're

[1:19:25] getting sleep every night you're

[1:19:26] managing stress relationships all those

[1:19:28] things you're pretty probably pretty

[1:19:30] aggressive on cancer screening because

[1:19:31] if you're going to get cancer you're

[1:19:32] going to have to catch it early and if

[1:19:34] you don't the chances that you're going

[1:19:35] to beat it are next to nil but that

[1:19:37] means you're exposing yourself to more F

[1:19:39] false positives basically if you want to

[1:19:41] live to 100 it becomes really really

[1:19:43] involved uh and then on top of that you

[1:19:45] still have to not let that consume you

[1:19:47] to the point where you can't do the

[1:19:49] thing that you want to do until you're

[1:19:50] 100 which in his case is be a

[1:19:53] Creator good luck Jordan yeah yeah yeah

[1:19:56] i' say find a middle ground there yeah

[1:19:59] maybe let's call it 80 yeah do it till

[1:20:02] you're 80 yeah well that's great thanks

[1:20:05] so much Peter app appreciate it man um

[1:20:07] hopefully we get to do a I I think on my

[1:20:10] bucket list now is to do a workout with

[1:20:11] you awesome I think that would be really

[1:20:13] fun to do some Farmers carries with your

[1:20:15] hex bar all right come to Austin we walk

[1:20:17] up and down the street in Austin with

[1:20:18] you perfect uh I'll be there too it's

[1:20:21] not a buck list item but I'll be there

[1:20:23] I'll do it awesome did it right thanks

[1:20:25] guys all right welcome to the deep end

[1:20:28] the after show after the guest leaves

[1:20:30] this is the first time we're doing this

[1:20:31] so first of all thank you guys for

[1:20:33] joining us here in the deep end where

[1:20:34] we're going to talk about our biggest

[1:20:35] takeaways from the guest that was a

[1:20:38] really interesting conversation one

[1:20:40] thing I didn't expect to talk about as a

[1:20:42] question I didn't even prepare was about

[1:20:44] negative comments and how you know you

[1:20:48] only see the negative comment why is

[1:20:50] that when there's a CA of positive

[1:20:52] comments and the fact that he based in

[1:20:55] like human evolution yeah that we are

[1:20:57] not me uh to care about whether someone

[1:21:00] likes you it's more about whether they

[1:21:02] don't like you because when you're

[1:21:03] living amongst like a tribe of people

[1:21:06] that's what you need to be aware of yeah

[1:21:08] I I think with with everything we do

[1:21:10] like as as entrepreneurs and creators

[1:21:12] like I do think it's really important to

[1:21:14] zoom out and look at the human element

[1:21:16] of all this primarily because also

[1:21:18] another thing he shared that really

[1:21:19] really stuck with me is like he gets

[1:21:21] paid for the use of his brain and that

[1:21:24] is actually like the the majority of you

[1:21:27] know creative jobs and and

[1:21:29] entrepreneurial jobs so then evaluating

[1:21:32] how your brain is working in the context

[1:21:34] of what we do every day is really

[1:21:35] important and evolution plays into that

[1:21:37] which is fascinating the like negative

[1:21:40] bias and being hyper aware of that so

[1:21:41] you don't get kicked out of your tribe

[1:21:44] yeah is such a fascinating like Peak

[1:21:48] into human psychology and with YouTube

[1:21:50] creators we're building tribes that are

[1:21:52] way bigger than we were ever to be

[1:21:55] building and you're not face to face

[1:21:57] with those members of your tribe right

[1:21:59] or members of of you never see those

[1:22:01] people yeah so I I thought you know in

[1:22:05] that same context of like negativity

[1:22:07] positive reinforcement the first thing

[1:22:09] that really stuck out to me about this

[1:22:11] conversation was his note around

[1:22:13] ensuring that you're getting dopamine

[1:22:15] from somewhere else other than this

[1:22:17] career I thought that was really

[1:22:19] interesting because you know I live

[1:22:22] daytoday and I can feel feel the highs

[1:22:25] and lows of my emotional state being

[1:22:28] pretty rooted in the highs and lows of

[1:22:31] what we're doing here in the studio I

[1:22:33] mean I have not shaken that ability at

[1:22:35] all or not even ability but just like

[1:22:37] that feeling I which is amazing because

[1:22:40] we're like 13 years in and a good

[1:22:42] episode still leaves me riding high for

[1:22:45] multiple days yeah and a Bad episode

[1:22:48] takes me about a week or more to Shake

[1:22:50] it Off totally I I think it started to

[1:22:53] change a bit in in in my 30s of starting

[1:22:57] to invest back into like social life and

[1:22:59] friendships and other things like that

[1:23:02] that's that sounds crazy but when you're

[1:23:04] like a heads down entrepreneur it's

[1:23:06] pretty hard to look up and root

[1:23:09] your you know dopamine and anything

[1:23:12] outside of your work it's still not to a

[1:23:15] point where I'm like totally absent of

[1:23:16] that but that that was a really good

[1:23:18] reminder today to go like where else are

[1:23:21] you receiving that so you're not so tied

[1:23:23] to the highs and lows career because

[1:23:25] it's going to naturally be up and down

[1:23:27] from now until the end of you know when

[1:23:29] we stop creating together it's going to

[1:23:31] be up and down and so you know where

[1:23:34] else are we getting that dope mean I

[1:23:37] liked what he said about work filling

[1:23:39] the maximum available time yeah and then

[1:23:41] what you said about

[1:23:44] scheduling things that are outside of

[1:23:46] work making it a weekly habit because

[1:23:48] you don't want to cancel something right

[1:23:50] right it's like harder to make plans but

[1:23:52] if you just make it a standing like

[1:23:53] every Tuesday we play paddle tennis or

[1:23:57] whatever it is at least it's there most

[1:23:59] likely you don't want to cancel it yeah

[1:24:01] I thought about that like with my own

[1:24:02] life like I really should be scheduling

[1:24:04] more types of like physical activities

[1:24:07] like even you going to a workout class

[1:24:09] yeah with friends I've joined you maybe

[1:24:11] once once yeah like I I could I need

[1:24:15] that accountability I think I need like

[1:24:17] some group accountability and plans

[1:24:19] otherwise I will wake up and be like H

[1:24:21] I'm a little tired this morning yeah I I

[1:24:24] think that's also the relationship to

[1:24:26] like productivity and I think that's

[1:24:28] I've always considered working out to be

[1:24:29] productive but I definitely find myself

[1:24:32] waking up and being like what's the most

[1:24:33] productive thing I can do right now and

[1:24:36] leaving this conversation the the two

[1:24:38] things I want to try and value in the

[1:24:41] next chapter to ensure that we have a

[1:24:43] long career and that I'm performing at

[1:24:45] my best is stillness and space those two

[1:24:49] things he brought up quite a bit and I

[1:24:51] think thinking about like do you have

[1:24:55] space to think is a really interesting

[1:24:58] question to ask yourself is there any

[1:25:01] time where you're not having an input of

[1:25:04] stimulation whether that be podcast

[1:25:06] YouTube Instagram Tik Tok uh friends

[1:25:09] family wives you know whatever that is

[1:25:11] like no inputs do you have any space

[1:25:14] like that where you're you're still and

[1:25:17] knowing when you need to make that space

[1:25:19] for yourself when you talked about task

[1:25:22] switching you know where you've like I

[1:25:24] can't even oh gave me chills I was like

[1:25:26] oh yeah I've definitely been like trying

[1:25:27] to buy a flight while also like email my

[1:25:31] parents something that I'm dealing with

[1:25:33] over there and also I'm in a frame IO

[1:25:35] link and I just can't commit to one of

[1:25:37] them yeah and I'm just overloaded it's

[1:25:39] like man maybe I need to be more aware

[1:25:43] of the times that I'm being completely

[1:25:44] insane yeah and just and be like look

[1:25:46] the only thing you actually need to do

[1:25:48] is not one of these things it's none of

[1:25:50] them what's hard is that there's like a

[1:25:52] dashboard for everything a lot of things

[1:25:54] in our career you know particularly like

[1:25:56] YouTube Studio you open it you have a

[1:25:58] dashboard for how well things are going

[1:25:59] there's like green checks or uh grade

[1:26:01] checks you don't really have that in

[1:26:03] your life unless you actively create it

[1:26:06] right like unless you're like what was

[1:26:07] my week like did I spend time with

[1:26:09] friends did I give myself space did I

[1:26:12] think you know like you don't have that

[1:26:15] dashboard and this episode recording

[1:26:17] this with him sitting down with him made

[1:26:18] me take a step back and go like all

[1:26:20] right if I am someone who needs to like

[1:26:23] look at progress of things and so with

[1:26:26] that in mind how can I create a

[1:26:27] dashboard for like the holistic picture

[1:26:29] of my life like did I exercise four

[1:26:33] times this week or not it's like very

[1:26:36] simple stuff but it is easy to just go

[1:26:40] and push towards the stuff that does

[1:26:42] have quantifi quantifiable metrics like

[1:26:44] what we do on YouTube like what we do in

[1:26:46] our business because that feels really

[1:26:48] good to progress quantifiable metrics

[1:26:50] and problems also will just come to you

[1:26:53] which is easy right like like a one

[1:26:55] slack message can be an easily

[1:26:57] identifiable problem that you're like

[1:26:59] well great now I have something to solve

[1:27:01] let's plug in yeah you know the hard

[1:27:04] thing to do is be like at least for me

[1:27:07] is to be like okay what I'm actually G

[1:27:09] to do is block off two hours in the

[1:27:13] morning to work out or eat right or do

[1:27:16] anything but that but you actually I

[1:27:18] think I need to treat my personal health

[1:27:22] the same way or in a very similar way

[1:27:24] that I treat work I think I okay so like

[1:27:27] because that is not hard for me blocking

[1:27:29] off like two hours in the morning to out

[1:27:31] it's it's I can do it it's hard for me

[1:27:33] from like a discipline totally what I'm

[1:27:35] saying is I think what what what we need

[1:27:38] to do is I need to like I need to bring

[1:27:41] you to that with me the workout stuff

[1:27:44] and what I would ask you is to I think

[1:27:47] you're good at Stillness definitely I

[1:27:50] think you're capable of it I'm much more

[1:27:52] capable I'm not that capable of

[1:27:53] Stillness yeah we were hanging out

[1:27:55] yesterday to watch the PLL championship

[1:27:58] and I'm working on our presentation yeah

[1:28:00] and you're like working on like three

[1:28:01] different things I was like I thought we

[1:28:02] were just watching this game right but I

[1:28:04] am but then I took out my computer and I

[1:28:06] started working on stuff I'm near

[1:28:09] incapable of doing that you are near

[1:28:10] incapable yeah because I'm like oh great

[1:28:13] I'm watching a game yeah you need to be

[1:28:15] playing a game yes that's the only way

[1:28:17] to get you to be a little bit still to

[1:28:19] be like playing padle tennis or you used

[1:28:22] to swim yeah like you're still there

[1:28:24] yeah yeah yeah yeah that that you're

[1:28:27] right I'm not good at Stillness and that

[1:28:30] that's was very loud to me in this

[1:28:32] conversation like I imagine creators who

[1:28:34] are listening to this conversation

[1:28:35] there's a there's going to be one or two

[1:28:36] things that were really loud to you the

[1:28:39] loudest thing to me was space and

[1:28:41] Stillness I'm very bad at that and

[1:28:44] recognizing that the his answer to how

[1:28:46] to get creative was create space for

[1:28:49] creativity it's such a simple thing to

[1:28:51] say but I was like

[1:28:54] it's a good point yeah it's a really

[1:28:56] good point I'm gonna ask you the

[1:28:58] question that he said he he asks himself

[1:29:01] what needs to be true for you to be

[1:29:05] enjoying this career in 10 years that

[1:29:06] one kind of hit me like a ton of bricks

[1:29:08] and I asked I wanted to ask him if he

[1:29:10] had an answer and he basically said you

[1:29:13] know I just need to make sure that I'm

[1:29:14] still enjoying these conversations yeah

[1:29:17] and that holds true but I think I need

[1:29:22] to spend more time digging into it

[1:29:24] because I really when he said that I was

[1:29:25] like oh I actually don't know what needs

[1:29:28] to be true for me to not be bored by

[1:29:30] this career in 10 years I think it's a

[1:29:32] really good prompt for everyone

[1:29:33] listening I it's a excellent prompt for

[1:29:35] everyone I I my immediate answer to that

[1:29:39] question is what I shared in the episode

[1:29:41] which is a reduction of pressure on

[1:29:44] performance of content and an increase

[1:29:47] in you know uh evaluating our content on

[1:29:52] value to those who are listening or

[1:29:53] watching

[1:29:54] that for me would be like the most

[1:29:57] enjoyable version of this career cuz I

[1:29:59] do have a lot of anxiety around the

[1:30:02] performance of episodes and I'd like to

[1:30:04] reduce that and increase my enjoyment of

[1:30:07] just sitting in Curious conversation I

[1:30:09] wish I could say that for myself but I

[1:30:11] also know that I really enjoy when it

[1:30:14] feels like you've dominated the

[1:30:16] conversation that day when an episode

[1:30:18] comes out or you make something and you

[1:30:20] put it out on YouTube and everyone's

[1:30:22] tweeting about it there's comments like

[1:30:24] that to me would keep it exciting if 10

[1:30:26] years from now we're still dropping

[1:30:29] things that it's like we just dominated

[1:30:32] the conversation today yeah that that's

[1:30:35] exciting there's nothing more exciting

[1:30:37] to me than like people reaching out or a

[1:30:40] video taking off I'm Gonna Get You cold

[1:30:41] plunging so you get your buzz from that

[1:30:43] you know I'm open to that but that I

[1:30:46] don't know maybe that's what it maybe

[1:30:48] that's what it takes yeah good prompt

[1:30:50] for everyone though yeah what what what

[1:30:52] would make what you're doing right now

[1:30:53] enjoyable in 10 years and you could you

[1:30:55] could shorten that window too um I think

[1:30:58] there's like simple stuff that we talked

[1:31:00] about today that I would also urge a lot

[1:31:02] of creators entrepreneurs everyone who's

[1:31:03] listening to this to think about like

[1:31:05] the Simplicity of sleep exercise

[1:31:08] nutrition it's almost sounds ridiculous

[1:31:10] because you're like yeah I know it but

[1:31:11] unless you actually think about it

[1:31:13] you're not thinking about it there's

[1:31:15] also so much we did not go into with

[1:31:17] Peter today a little bit because we've

[1:31:20] spoken with him before and we've gone

[1:31:22] really into the weeds of like what do

[1:31:23] you do in terms of sleep he you know he

[1:31:25] mentioned on the show he takes three to

[1:31:27] four sleep supplements a night yeah like

[1:31:29] you can find that information from Peter

[1:31:31] of what he actually takes when it comes

[1:31:33] to working out you can find the exact

[1:31:35] exercises and the type of workouts that

[1:31:38] he recommends and I urge everyone if you

[1:31:41] are interested in that seek it out from

[1:31:44] him whether it's in his book or on his

[1:31:46] podcast because it's out there and it's

[1:31:49] really fascinating totally and and don't

[1:31:52] have I would don't have the anxiety that

[1:31:55] you have to do exactly that like I think

[1:31:57] one thing that's really great about

[1:31:58] Peter and and learning more about Peter

[1:32:00] is that he's very much pushes you to go

[1:32:02] like it's it's every person is different

[1:32:04] so like your protocol is g to be

[1:32:06] different yeah from mine it's different

[1:32:08] from his it's all going to be different

[1:32:09] but experiment with what that is and I

[1:32:11] told him look like I was super inspired

[1:32:13] the first time I heard you speak and

[1:32:15] then I've been somewhat discouraged at

[1:32:16] the action that I've taken like I've

[1:32:18] been disappointed in the actual like

[1:32:20] impact yeah but what I didn't say is

[1:32:22] that I actually have made a lot of

[1:32:24] improvement like I am working out more

[1:32:28] so than I was I am more knowledgeable

[1:32:30] about sleep and certain things um going

[1:32:33] in a sauna cold plunge like I on the Arc

[1:32:36] of my progress I have made progress

[1:32:38] because of the fact that I have spent

[1:32:39] time with him and I've listened to him

[1:32:40] and I've been reading his book even

[1:32:42] though I am a bit discouraged at like

[1:32:44] yeah I I wish I had made more progress

[1:32:47] but at the same time I've made progress

[1:32:49] that I wouldn't have made if I had not

[1:32:50] been listening to him do you remember

[1:32:52] some of like the lowest moments M of our

[1:32:55] career like the the most kind of fried

[1:32:58] and burnt out yeah I mean what do you

[1:33:01] remember about those

[1:33:03] moments I mean I just I mean I just

[1:33:05] remember being like you know not really

[1:33:08] fried and burnt out but like sad as

[1:33:11] tough as that like I just remember being

[1:33:12] like I'm like not ha I'm really like

[1:33:14] unhappy yeah you know like it was like a

[1:33:17] mix of like social life that I didn't

[1:33:20] have validation that I wasn't getting

[1:33:22] from career and not eating right being

[1:33:25] tired like it was so many things missing

[1:33:28] my family like there was just it was so

[1:33:29] much I just remember being like damn I'm

[1:33:31] like I'm not succeeding and I'm pretty

[1:33:34] unhappy right now you know like no cup

[1:33:36] was full is kind of what I remember yeah

[1:33:39] certain

[1:33:40] times yeah I think uh I just remember

[1:33:42] like being very far away from my why

[1:33:45] like why am I doing this when it was so

[1:33:47] hard and there was no

[1:33:49] validation you know I just remember

[1:33:51] being really far away from like

[1:33:55] why yeah because the videos we were

[1:33:57] making uh you know at one point at the

[1:33:59] beginning of this channel they weren't

[1:34:01] we were searching

[1:34:03] for we were expressing ourselves and

[1:34:05] hoping that we would find impact yeah

[1:34:08] and then once we kind of flipped gears

[1:34:10] and thought wait what's the impact we

[1:34:12] want to make that we care about right

[1:34:14] then we could express ourselves in a way

[1:34:16] that felt good and also like grew our

[1:34:20] Channel and you know has allowed us to

[1:34:23] have the channel that we have now gives

[1:34:25] you a North star yeah so just on the

[1:34:28] back half of this episode I would urge

[1:34:30] creators and and entrepreneurs who are

[1:34:32] listening to this to just invest some

[1:34:34] time into like self-evaluating just

[1:34:36] think about what is driving you what

[1:34:40] what what do you want your day-to-day to

[1:34:41] look like and what about what you're

[1:34:43] doing right now would make it still fun

[1:34:46] over the next decade I think it's a

[1:34:48] really good prompt so let us know what

[1:34:49] you thought about this episode also let

[1:34:51] us know what you thought about this

[1:34:52] little debrief we did after the episode

[1:34:53] this is new for us had a good time with

[1:34:56] it yeah had a good time let us know all

[1:34:58] right we'll see you