We’re At The Breaking Point - WAN Show December 26, 2025

[00:06] heard. What's up, everybody? And welcome to the WAN Show. We have a great show lined up for you guys this week because

[00:18] people weren't in office much this week, so Luke and I will be making up a lot of things as we go. Yeah. >> That's right, the RAM shortage is in full swing and there's been even further negative developments. That's right, it

[00:32] No, I No, I'm serious. >> How could they? >> It It got worse. There's actually system innovation >> Oh, yeah. of selling computers

[00:49] >> without RAM. Bring your own RAM PCs. will say >> End times. No, we're not talking about fair. Also, we're going to be talking about how Spotify managed to be entirely

[01:05] scraped. That's right, you can download the entirety of Spotify if, of course, you are a filthy pirate, which no judgement, you might be. Speaking of scraping, uh Google sues another company for scraping

[01:19] Google in an act that is very interesting. >> Also, Valve discontinues the cheapest Steam Deck.

[01:32] discontinues. >> Right. Nice. A bit of bit of important >> Discontinued. Yes. They continued to discontinue. They continued to discontinue. [Music]

[02:12] I My brain does not turn on this early in the morning and it's brought to you by Squarespace, Vessi, AMD, and Ugreen, along with our chair partner Secretlab, our Dell partner laptop laptop partner Dell, and

[02:28] of course, our wrap partner dbrand. Did we Did we >> Yo. Yo. dbrand.

[02:43] dbrand? >> dbrand, protect your laptop. Don't let >> dbrand, protect your laptop. Don't let it be a crap top. Oh my god.

[02:57] Uh Flap top? >> Yeah, but you just rhymed crap with top. You did laptop and flaptop. >> I've heard far more egregious non-rhymes in actual professional music, sir. Fair enough. It has happened, I guess.

[03:20] >> Uh Okay, sure. Uh Yo, let's go straight into Yohoho, Spotify has been scraped and is being loaded on torrents. And as Archive scraped and downloaded 256

[03:33] million rows of metadata. Actually, wait, no, I lied. I have something more important to talk about first, and that is that these are out now and you have a very very limited amount of time

[03:51] to get them for 20% off courtesy of Oh god. screwdrivers are here. They're out. Uh non-infringing purple, non-infringing

[04:07] Uh non-infringing purple, non-infringing teal, non-infringing orange, and legally teal, non-infringing orange, and legally distinct gray. They're all here. Mm, purple, molten orange, cryo teal, and carbon black. Fun nostalgic Y2K clear

[04:22] tech colors. It's the Prism Magic series of screwdrivers, and we are teaming up of screwdrivers, and we are teaming up with YouTube Shop to offer 20% off from with YouTube Shop to offer 20% off from December 26th to the 30th. 20% off. And

[04:36] just like, "Oh, well, you know, LTT will just sell it for 20% off." No, we're teaming up with YouTube Shop for the 20% off discount. It is only eligible during this period. So, go to YouTube, click on the video Every LTT Store item that

[04:51] didn't happen. Dan is going to link that cuz I believe it's actually unlisted right now. But once WAN Show goes live, that video will go up. Add the Prism Magic screwdriver through YouTube Shopping.

[05:04] applies automatically, but it is only for 5 days. Get it while you can. We'll talk about other LTT Store stuff later, but that is the most important one. One Shopping. Adding it with YouTube Shopping, does that mean grabbing it

[05:17] down here? How do they do that? Like if I'm on I'm on the the website If I'm on the website, I see this banner. to cart through YouTube Shopping. Discount is automatically applied. I

[05:29] click view on YouTube. You've got to be kidding me. Hold on. Sammy says we're having issues right now. Trying to resolve. Oh. with the YouTube Shopping promo. We're working on it as fast as we can.

[05:56] the flow and was just like, uh Yeah. No work. And as Archive scraped and downloaded And as Archive scraped and downloaded 256 million rows of metadata and 86

[06:09] million audio audio files from Spotify totaling around 300 terabytes of data. And as Archive typically aggregates print media links for books and papers mission of preserving humanity's knowledge and culture. And as Archive

[06:25] has been blocked in many countries and has had hundreds of millions of URL takedown requests filed with Google. The 86 >> Please mute yourself. >> audio tracks, that's me, are composed of

[06:37] 160 kilobit per second quality for popular songs and it drops down to 75 kilobits per second for less listened tracks. I am muted >> These tracks represent 99.6% of listens on Spotify.

[06:53] >> That's crazy. Wow. They state "This Spotify scrape is our humble attempt to start such a preservation archive for music. Of course, Spotify doesn't have great start. They will be releasing the data on their

[07:08] torrents page in different stages with the metadata already released. Then the music files will be dropped in order of popularity followed by additional file metadata and album art. They also state on their blog, "For now, this is a

[07:21] torrents-only archive aimed at preservation, but if there is enough individual files to Anna's Archive. Please let us know if you would like Spotify later responded saying they have identified and disabled the accounts

[07:36] that were scraping the data. They state, "Since day one, we have stood with the are actively working with our industry partners to protect creators and defend their rights." Um

[07:55] You know what? Let's have the conversation we were having pre-show. Oh, boy. >> Luke has a theory that um that I think is an interesting theory, and let's not get too deep into the granularity

[08:09] necessarily of it, but Luke basically presented that he wasn't sure that people would be as Yohoho, are, you know, about this as

[08:21] out there. as they necessarily have been about other things. And I just want to do like kind of a vibe check with the community. Basically, I'll lay out sort of the the bones of Luke's theory, and then we can shiver me them timbers, bury

[08:37] them 6 ft under, or we can or we can keep talking about it, but basically, a uh >> sliding scale of acceptance. >> Like yeah, like a pecking order of what's very okay to pirate versus what's

[08:52] not very okay to pirate. TV shows seem to be very okay to to pirate among sort of like, you know, the internet community. Sure. Um books seem to be

[09:04] thoughtlessly pirated with with no cares given. Um you know, websites with paywalls seem to get treated as just like um just an obstacle that was in the way of

[09:19] my god-given right to view the website. So, they seem to be like on the highest level of acceptance for for that. But then audio over And this is a funny thing because in the early torrenting days, uh

[09:35] when it was when we called it Napster >> Audio was like most of it. Music was >> Yeah, and that was mostly because just the internet wasn't really fast enough to meaningfully pirate movies and and TV shows. And also,

[09:49] movies and and TV shows. And also, streaming sites didn't really exist. Um encoding technology wasn't as as awesome. Like you couldn't get great quality at a at an amount of, you know, bandwidth that was reasonable for you to

[10:02] actually download. Like it just, you know, video media just wasn't really Um but like what are what are your guys's What are your guys's take on this? Oh right, so where I was going with that was but audio ever since, I

[10:15] with that was but audio ever since, I mean, realistically subscription model came to music, I would say that music piracy, while maybe than before, it's certainly fallen out of vogue. Yeah. And I I I will say that

[10:33] to counter my theory being more correct, um I suspect one of the reasons why there hasn't been as big of a explosion about this um and this archive music about this um and this archive music thing as maybe there could have been is

[10:47] because a lot of people are subscribed to something. YouTube Premium, which gives them YouTube Music or Spotify or I don't know. I'm assuming there's an don't know. I'm assuming there's an Apple thing or Tidal or whatever.

[10:59] service that has practically everything, so they just don't really like care that this archive is out there as much. >> Lion and Cat also brings up um trying to buy TV shows and movies is really hard in digital formats that I don't have

[11:13] restrictions on. Whereas buying music with zero DRM is easy and fairly cheap. So that sort of >> Um I I believe so. I mean, I have I have MP3s that I bought on iTunes like 15 years ago that I could totally just

[11:27] >> cuz that's the only way I know. >> know. I know of uh a couple artists that I've wanted to directly support, so I've literally just bought their thing. And like I don't

[11:39] like never the point. >> Right. I just yeah. But in a lot of cases, if you're not an iTunes person, Bandcamp, is that

[11:52] They do. Uh Serve has an interesting take here. And to be clear, I'm not I'm not backing any of these comments from Floatplane reading them out because they're different from each other. Uh Serve

[12:08] says, AI companies can scrape everything in existence. Um I accept that everything is okay to pirate until AI companies with pirated data are um gone after essentially.

[12:21] Um That's interesting. Willing Spine says, if I cross the line, I'm going to cross the line. I won't have any reservations. okay. That's

[12:34] that's interesting. >> It doesn't feel like Bandcamp is truly a solution in my view. I'm I'm looking up a few different uh Hm. things. >> Dan Vibes in Floatplane chat, not to be

[12:48] >> Dan Vibes in Floatplane chat, not to be confused with Producer Dan, um says, I'm a DJ. I am also subscribed to official DJ libraries, but for personal use, I use certain YouTube downloaders. So they So

[13:02] So Dan Vibes draws the line between commercial use and personal use. That's an interesting line. That is I think it's a semi-common line. Yeah. Yeah, no, I can I can see that. Um

[13:17] certain amount of money for a single movie or TV show, drives me crazy. Yeah, I watch like one movie a month.

[13:35] I only pirate music cuz even if I pay for it, it gets removed. I mean, I think Monarch. There's a there's a lot of music that doesn't get removed from subscription services. I don't I don't think there's been like a mass

[13:49] been things that have been removed and that certainly is uh is a major downer. I am I am like actively trying to buy a digital version of a particular album

[14:04] Uh Seriously, a Blink 182 album? fruit. >> be that hard. Um a digital version? Yeah, it it doesn't seem to be the easiest thing ever. Is this physical or

[14:18] digital? Audio CD. Nice. Solid. Literally. Literally solid. It's solid. The one on their actual store is an LP. I looked up Blink 182 on Bandcamp and they only have one album and it's

[14:32] Buddha, which is like I don't think most people know that that album exists. Uh This is This is not like the easiest Uh This is This is not like the easiest thing ever.

[14:54] I can find listings for it in CD, vinyl, and cassette forms, but I can't find a digital version. People are saying a couple random websites. I'll try this one. If this website is legit, I'd

[15:07] search. This is music streaming. >> Download store, okay. I'll check. I'll check. So is the issue a service issue

[15:20] again? Oh wow, Float Wow, Floatplane chat is uh is is super active right now about this. Definitely a lot of opinions. Ben34

[15:32] says, I feel a lot less guilty pirating something if I support the person actively on social media. I feel this is fine. What do you think? >> mean? Well, it depends what you mean by supporting. If like you press thumbs up

[15:45] once in a while on one of their uh you know, tweets, um That does not count. >> Well, I Listen. My whole thing with piracy, right, is I've always said,

[15:58] >> here's the impact. You're going to draw your own line. what I can say is that the amount of money they would have made from you not pirating their stuff is substantially,

[16:12] maybe even infinitely higher than what they're going to make from you pressing thumbs up once in a while. Um so it you know, if you're trying to if you're trying to find like uh like a a monetary support rationale,

[16:27] then that's definitely not equivalent. However, you know, if you're if you're drawing the line some other way, then you know, that's that's your line to draw. But I would say they're not the same thing. Um

[16:42] movies and shows I want to watch are not available anymore at all, not in my country, etc. That's a that's a major country, etc. That's a that's a major one is like the whole regional licensing

[16:54] >> I think that's a huge driver for piracy. There's a lot of basically refuse to subscribe to any of those services is somewhat in line with the person who said, Oh, I I might subscribe for a

[17:07] certain thing of music and then it's gone. That's much more real in my opinion on the movies and TV show side of things, where you subscribe to a service and then I don't know. The the show Some of the shows that you

[17:21] might have wanted might just disappear. That's happened many times with things like Netflix. ClappedK24Accord says, I'll gladly buy a concert shirt you aren't good enough for me to see live, I don't feel the need to directly

[17:35] support you. And then goes on to completely obliterate their own argument Hip and other bands where members have died and disbanded. Right, exactly. Or uh members where live performances are not practical because

[17:52] uh you know, they they do a lot of post-processing on their music and that, you know, is not conducive to performing live or maybe they have a health can't perform live or

[18:04] um I think that again, not taking a stance on your stance, but you took a stance on your stance. You said, This is my line. By the way, here's a giant hole in the line

[18:18] that I that I drew. Um and that that was on you who did that, not me. Um Music's good on shuffle. Videos are more Yeah, wow, this is really really interesting.

[18:33] Okay, The Outlier says, I pirate music, music videos, and movies. Music videos. >> However, I have a Spotify account for actually listening to music and an offline backup in case it gets taken down. See, like on a personal level, I

[18:48] >> I buy Blu-rays, vinyls of content I love, and I go and see many live shows and go to the theaters regularly. So you are The Outlier, aren't you? Outlier. >> Oh.

[19:01] Yeah. Okay, I mean, yeah, it's it's it is very interesting to see how easy it was for any time I've ever how easy it was for any time I've ever talked about piracy for it to tick off a

[19:14] large percentage of the audience because reading through these comments and the fastest I think I can remember seeing Floatplane chat moving. Everybody has drawn

[19:28] has drawn not just like a line on a linear scale for like how much piracy is okay, because there's all the different ways of piracing piracying. There's all the different mediums that you can pirate.

[19:42] There's all the different definitions of piracy. I mean, there's a lot of folks, myself included, who feel that piracy is circumvention of the of the of the payment of a of a of a media good. Like to me that was always

[19:58] kind of what it fundamentally boiled down to. There are clearly folks who do not agree. To them piracy requires it to be illegal explicitly. That was and and I believe that is

[20:12] actually like dictionary definition. >> Yeah. Correct. calling it privateering. >> Yes. So it's like this whole it becomes like a whole spirit versus letter of the law sort of argument at that point which

[20:26] again to me has always been you know sort of sort of arbitrary but to a lot of people is a very important line that they draw for their own personal morality so that they

[20:38] um or something. y'all are okay man I keep getting new takes here. goes I'd never pirate fiction but

[20:54] non-fictional educational pretty much always. to be honest also piracy. >> Really? >> I mean explain it to me. Um when you're on dude when you're on university

[21:06] campuses >> Mhm. the the hats are on. Yeah sure. >> The hats are firmly positioned. >> Was that just a little bit on the older much of a thing when I was in my first couple of years.

[21:18] >> barely creaking into being a thing when I was going to school >> People were voracious about it. And then I resold them. Um In in some cases I definitely honestly do agree. There are a lot of

[21:34] documented documented counts where people are bumping revisions of books for practically nothing where the author of the book is the teacher of the class and then bumping revisions to make you buy new ones and

[21:48] like all this there's a lot of very obviously unfair play in the educational space and you know it's still not legal for that whole line thing that we're talking about but I can definitely understand why someone's line

[22:02] could be placed in a position where they're like I'm cool to pirate this I'm like you know you're you're spending a mind-shattering amount on getting a

[22:16] mind-shattering amount on getting a North American education. Uh and yeah 2024 study showed a huge number of student students pirate books and also share them around. Totally makes sense.

[22:28] lecturers who will send an email out saying don't use these websites. >> Yep. These ones. This is a thing that has actually also happened many times. >> for them to find them. Yep. Like it's it's it's tough because think

[22:43] think of how many scenarios you are required to buy a book. Clapped K12 Accord says I proudly pirated the Canadian electrical code. If safety is that important I ain't paying $300 on it get wrecked.

[23:02] Yeah people have their own line right? I don't know. educational books that I would feel really bad about pirating and I could books where I'd be like download like

[23:17] on the the one specifically for me. >> to me the biggest takeaway here is that literally no two people sitting next to each other in a room could possibly agree 100% on what's okay and what's not

[23:33] okay to pirate. Yeah. Unless they were absolutists unless they were literally Sith. everything is okay. Which there are people in both camps. Yeah there there

[23:49] I do wonder though >> of them in this conversation right now >> I do wonder if eventually you could poke a hole in most of those people's belief system though simply by bringing it back around to something that that

[24:05] they work on because it's amazing how quickly you can do that. Where you kind quickly you can do that. Where you kind of go okay but what if what if they pirated you know this thing that you create. You know what if some what if

[24:18] and they'll be like obviously you know that's an exception because >> There's I know there's a ooh I hope I don't misrepresent their argument but I know there's a group of people where

[24:31] it's all information should be free at all times. And it's just that's their line. And they they don't care if they make it or not. Make it? Yeah if they're creating

[24:43] information whatever that might be. Um Oh I I do believe that for for there are a significant number of people that at the actually walk that walk but also

[24:55] most of the people who say they do I I have not found that they actually do. I know I've met people that do but I think I would agree with you on that one be like oh that sounds cool and then not actually like really think about the

[25:09] people that have thought about the consequences and are just like yep. other things I'm going to I'm going to absolutely walk this walk and it just it

[25:21] >> Is there a man oh how do we cuz like for software yeah you know open source is like the you know the the the solution like uh but I don't I don't think there's like

[25:36] an open source you know music open source movies where I'm going with this like if you were if you're someone who believes be free then there's like there's a path to

[25:51] there just to all software being free. It's kind of it's been kind of laid out. We just have to we have to do it. Whereas like movies I don't I don't free. I don't Uh there's people that have started

[26:03] is a line that's going to get really interesting really fast. putting up People are saying oh yeah public libraries it's a good one Well who's >> part of it.

[26:17] >> make them? That that's more the issue. Like with with open source I think we've it issue and we've solved how they're going to get paid. It's going to be through support contracts. Um

[26:30] >> All right. So that's how we're doing this and then but on the movie side who will make them and how will they be paid? I don't I don't see Yeah this already saying the thing that I've been thinking about and this is going to

[26:42] like I just said previously but YouTube. There's I don't remember it but there's a YouTube documentary that went up and did really well and they got approached by a few

[26:55] different larger companies including Netflix and some other ones to take that documentary make it exclusive to their paid subscription platform and they said no. The reason why they said no was because they thought they would

[27:08] have better flexibility and potentially financials by staying on YouTube because financials by staying on YouTube because of I think it was Patreon. So it was crowdfunding. What are we going to do? How do you how

[27:23] do you start? You have to you have to start in that realm by Like from the it's tough. a >> Will people stay subscribed for the

[27:37] next documentary? That's that's tough. It's very tough. And and will you will YouTube continue to enshittify to the point where it's it's it's going to become a major problem like like I I um I came across a really

[27:52] interesting thread on the LTT subreddit this week. Um this week. Um just about how crap YouTube's getting and we actually we did this last week but I think it bears doing again.

[28:06] This is my YouTube homepage. There is Yeah. an ad shorts >> of shorts which like don't they don't even auto play the

[28:19] whole thing. They just stop. You have to click them. You have It's it's by design. You know it's by design. it's by design. Then we get what? Another live stream an

[28:33] ad a VOD >> the first VOD Oh my god YouTube >> the first VOD Oh my god YouTube playables these AI slop garbage games. playables these AI slop garbage games. So out of my first two

[28:46] so I'm below the fold already. >> one VOD somewhat based YouTube that the one VOD that you got is like a really small discoverability and all that kind of stuff but it's it's one why is why is it

[29:03] >> Okay let's keep going. I mean I haven't I haven't prepped this right? Below the fold again. Okay. Here we go a Boston Dynamics video that's pretty popular Jurassic Park but with a cat a short circuit video. Okay

[29:16] with a cat a short circuit video. Okay we got three VODs another row of shorts. >> Another live stream another ad a 10-year-old video from what? >> 13 years old but yeah sure who's

[29:28] Okay so we get a few VODs here another tell me that's not the same fireplace. No it's a different fireplace. >> Sorry one second can we look at that video real quick? Virginia traffic

[29:40] attorney Luke J. Nichols.mov from 13 years ago. >> views? >> Oh it's an ad. he's just talking about his practice. >> Totally, it must have So, it's just an

[29:53] ad. And it like it probably was an ad at some point. It probably isn't an ad anymore because there's no way. >> Yeah. This this is clearly not parody though. This is an actual ad for Virginia

[30:06] traffic attorney Luke J. Nichols. Donut Media Am I missing something here? Okay, now I'm clicking it. I must be missing something here. I didn't expect to see Outdoor Boys. Your new job is way cooler than a

[30:20] >> Wait, that's Outdoor Boys? Okay, that makes sense why they got so many views. That is totally him. What the heck? Okay. >> I didn't recognize the name immediately. That is incredibly random.

[30:35] this number? You know what? Let's not do that right that kind of show. But so how much farther? And and this was sort of the conversation that some people

[30:48] were were trying to have in the Reddit thread. But like how much more in shitification is there for YouTube to to go through? I mean, I I do feel like this whole AI slop game thing might be the the jump the shark moment.

[31:04] It feels like it to me. I think I ranted about this last week, but yeah, YouTube really needs to find their way. I'm I am genuinely rather terrified. Because that was the answer, right? Like that was the

[31:18] community's and your answer to how we're going to not have everything be major studio funded and we're going to have like indie be possible. The answer is YouTube has been the bastion. Yes, they've been the way for for small

[31:32] projects to survive and and fund themselves, you know, off platform on directly. But how is VOD supposed to survive on YouTube when literally AI slop games are

[31:49] given better billing in the first two pages of the site than >> than VOD videos. Yeah. And when I say VOD, I I don't mean stuff isn't also technically video on demand, but that's the way that YouTube

[32:05] refers to it is there's shorts, there's VODs, there's live. So so VOD, that's like your traditional, you know, 16 by 9 YouTube upload that's meant to be watched on a on a screen that isn't vertical.

[32:20] Um and isn't meant to be like, you know, played a game on with AI slop junk. you know, affects me personally, right? Because that's the majority of Linus

[32:35] Because that's the majority of Linus Media Group's work is is VOD. And even though we do dabble in shorts, um I can tell you now that unless you're selling not there's not a sustainable amount of

[32:48] scale. Like I think as an individual person, you could survive on shorts just kind of filming yourself or maybe even a couple people, a few people, small team. start to seek sponsorships. You're going to need to start to sell something.

[33:04] I ran into a really cool shorts creator who became a shorts creator because of his like frozen dessert business as opposed to Yeah, there's a bunch of that around. It's weird, but yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um where like the ads we

[33:18] we've the ads have become the content which is sort of wild. Oh, that part's very interesting. Um Hey, I think people I think there's same argument about us. Yeah, it's it's that's again where your

[33:32] line is cuz some people see certain types of content as ads. It also depends on their perception, right? Um like there is stuff that we do that I would say

[33:45] classify it could be classified as as advertisement. Um like like fully like we did a fully sponsored short on these like wave hot tub and turned it into a whirlpool. Yeah, I know. I mean, we do a fair

[33:58] effectively ads. We try to make them entertaining, but they're effectively ads. But there's a lot of people who consider like, you know, anything that simply because those are things you can buy and it's like, well, no.

[34:11] either. >> gets funky. >> But my my like I'm terrified for what's happening to YouTube thing actually has

[34:25] place. It's entirely just that like I don't I there's comments in in Floatplane chat of like, "YouTube where it was. I'm not going to find it. Sorry, but YouTube can definitely get

[34:39] worse. They've proven that before." Um and it's like, "Yeah, man. I don't know. I'm definitely on the like let's dog on YouTube chain, I guess." Um Yeah, but like I mean >> It's also pretty amazing and Yeah. There

[34:52] really isn't anything else there out there like it and I really don't think it's going to happen. If YouTube goes down, we're not going to get this back You You look at the incumbents. What are they doing?

[35:04] Yeah, Tik Just worse things than what YouTube's doing. Yeah. And that's with and that was with YouTube to be there as a guiding star and show them how to create a creator economy company. Like Twitter talked a good game for a while

[35:18] about, you know, um more revenue sharing with creators and and this and that and then I think eventually their leadership figured out or that if that's not happening or got distracted by something.

[35:33] Um Tik Tok I don't think ByteDance has any intention of ever having a revenue sharing model like YouTube introduced. Twitch has revenue sharing like pretty

[35:47] pretty decent revenue sharing. I'd say that's like the other platform where creators can realistically like make enough money to sustain >> come on, are we going to are we going to talk about

[36:00] Twitch being better than YouTube in 2026? Not Oh, no. But this is my point though. Like And they've abandoned VOD. So, VOD is pretty functionally completely abandoned on Twitch. Um I I've I've had people

[36:14] who don't understand what Floatplane is say, "Oh, this is Floatplane's opportunity." No, it's not. We're not doing that. It's not happening. That will literally never happen. It will never ever happen.

[36:27] The only reason that YouTube works is because it operates at such a colossal scale that no amount of You know what? Floatplane team? Super >> Amazing. Floatplane leadership? Great

[36:42] Peter's in Peter's in Floatplane chat right now saying, "Yeah, please no." [Laughter] We're good. We're not doing that. >> But a project of that scale no matter how I will say it right now and I don't

[36:55] Floatplane team in any way. >> No. No amount of venture capital money would make that viable. >> But that has been proven already. Like if anyone was going to do it, it was basically going to be Amazon with

[37:09] was basically going to be Amazon with with adding VOD to Twitch and then It's probably fine. I'm not going to name them, but I have talked to Twitch people who during that segment of time were like,

[37:22] "We are going to lose. We were never going to win. This is a failed idea. Their moat is astronomically bigger than everyone thinks and no one will ever touch YouTube." And that was like almost It's been too many years to say that

[37:35] it's close. Like they they there's there's no chance. And that's still kind of true And that's still kind of true unless they remove the moat themselves.

[37:47] >> on it. They're cooking. is inside the building. And my my concern is that You sound scared. I am kind of scared. The the the like The the the like the future of online knowledge sharing

[38:02] with YouTube rotten to its core is dark. different ways and there's some there's people talking about how they're they're

[38:14] these different things are happening and like there's there's goodness in that, but the sad part of that is that YouTube was often Take that. [Music]

[38:27] Dear God. The call is coming from inside the [Laughter] Cuz YouTube threat from within. pretty good. I was so confused looking at my phone. I was like, "Did you get

[38:39] spoofed or something?" Um Like it's Okay. All right. Gravity Cube asks It's just concerning. But why is it not

[38:52] feasible? I understand money, but what is the part that is so expensive? Okay. So, uploading for free is [ __ ] insane for one thing. That's

[39:06] that's the start. Like the whole uploading for free only made sense at the beginning because investment funding, burning money, user acquisition period. It was it was the mid-2000s

[39:21] it was the mid-2000s {slash} sort of late 2000s and I mean I mean even well into the 2010s, that was the Silicon Valley model. You just burned investor money and then you acquired many many many many users and

[39:36] then usually you exited to a much larger company who figured out how to make money off of it eventually or just kind of didn't and continued to burn money and just acquire users see Twitch as an

[39:51] example. That was just the model. But what happened to the vast majority of other, you know, free-to-use, free-to-upload, free-to-download services like, you know, let's let's look at Dropbox as an

[40:07] example. Dropbox, you know, made no sense how much they were giving away for sense how much they were giving away for free in the early days. Eventually, "Oh my god, this doesn't make any sense." And they had to build like a

[40:20] viable business model. And now Dropbox's popularity is I They were They were like, dude, they were like basically >> cloud storage >> Yeah. at the time at, you know, in the

[40:33] Dropbox, I don't know what. Did you Did you fail to pay? Do you Do you Do you, you know, Did Did you get cut off by, let's see, OneDrive? >> interesting that their

[40:47] >> iCloud >> their tagline is registered users. >> their tagline is registered users. >> it. So like that whole that whole model never made

[41:01] any sense except YouTube. YouTube has somehow has somehow made it work. So we would have to find a way and and and the somehow, right, is they got bought who somehow, right, is they got bought who continued to throw money into the money

[41:15] furnace until such point as they were able to extract enough data that they were able to leverage it to make enough on that data that they were able to turn it into a self-sustaining machine.

[41:31] Um without the deep deep deep ad business that Google has without the

[41:43] ad business that Google has without the way that they leverage user data business, I just don't see how it could be done. I just don't see how it could be done. And you can look at other examples of of

[41:56] strong advertising companies. I'd say Facebook would probably be the closest Facebook would probably be the closest thing at this point, Meta. Um Meta tried and I I don't think VOD has ever really

[42:09] taken off on Meta. Short form? There's short form, for sure. But Meta's model is also so different. Like you I know like literally one creator that does well on Facebook VOD.

[42:23] creators that do. They have some demographics, but it's really it's not YouTube. And it's very very very far from being YouTube. >> the other side of it. So Google figured out how to bring in enough revenue to

[42:36] make it make sense. But then they also had to figure out how to scale up their infrastructure to make it affordable. And I don't know if you guys have And I don't know if you guys have noticed this, but Moore's law and like

[42:48] the way that storage, you know, costs per terabyte are going. Like you can't just count on your next data center to be twice as fast, have twice as much storage, and cost half as much

[43:02] as much storage, and cost half as much as the last one you built anymore. The the large-scale corporate entities are up against the corporate entities are up against the exact same challenges that we are when

[43:14] we go to build a new gaming PC and realize, "Oh my god, this thing like realize, "Oh my god, this thing like costs the same or more, is not that much Maybe I'll just keep my 5-year-old gaming PC because realistically a

[43:28] 5-year-old gaming PC today is still going to play anything you'd want to play and you have it already. You don't have to You don't have to buy a new one. I mean, they have Oh man, they have When when

[43:41] power and your cooling become major concerns and you might have to upgrade But in terms of like performance and especially storage, we did a video a while back that was I forget exactly what we called it, but it basically laid

[43:57] what we called it, but it basically laid out the case for why um Oh, what was it? YouTube made a made a controversial move. Premium. Is this the skip ad thing?

[44:10] >> No, I think it was like the resolution >> it was the resolution thing. Like why 4K like that. Yeah, thank you, That sounds about right. in Floatplane chat, where about right. in Floatplane chat, where we basically showed how how the cost per

[44:23] we basically showed how how the cost per gig of storage used to go down >> rapidly. >> And then just like >> Yeah. And meanwhile, more and more people are

[44:36] carrying around 4K video cameras in their pockets, all while the storage doesn't get cheaper the way that it used to. So the only way to to make it affordable is to just what? I don't know. There's no magic.

[44:50] It's not like Google gets magic hard drives that don't cost money. Yeah. So apparently the answer is

[45:12] video. >> Yeah, now now all Wow, this is crazy, Um Huh.

[45:27] Wow, I'm sure glad this exists. 48 million plays. With that said, I don't know, you know, no one has ever known what this number means. Yeah. We

[45:39] all kind of trust YouTube to be somewhat consistent in their application of that consistent in their application of that number, whether it's views or streams or plays. But I I actually sent them an email to

[45:52] But I I actually sent them an email to my to my rep the other day that I I, you know, I was really confused by. Let me see if I can find it. Yeah, here it is. So let me Let me fire this Let me fire this over to you, Dan.

[46:08] Um share. Nice. Oh my god, where is Teams in my share menu? Why is it not here? Oh, they There it is. Just once. Why would I want to always

[46:23] share to the same app? What a stupid interface thing. I I'm finally dailying the Fold 7 just in time for the tri-fold to come out and I absolutely love it so

[46:35] It definitely has some issues, but it's pretty awesome. God, this is terrible. What's up? Maybe it's better on a phone. I'm trying to play one of these I'm

[46:48] trying to play that game that had 48 million plays. Oh, here. Sure. Oh, and it's like So all of your movement It's interesting this works on YouTube, but all of your movement is I see my mouse. There's this

[47:01] you know, it's almost certainly just made for a mobile phone. So that's probably a big part of the problem, but I am a problem, but I am a unhearable ninja as far as I can tell. I

[47:14] get cash immediately. This probably counts as another play, clicking next level. Ooh, yeah, it load Yeah, probably. I can get firearms. I don't have enough money for any of this. Cool, good game

[47:27] Um So they can't hear me, so I just walk near them and they get shanked. Even if they see me for a second, doesn't really matter. I could probably just speedrun all this by just running into them.

[47:39] This is the game. Why has this been played 48 million single time you load a level, it's probably counts as the game being played again. Well, that's the thing is like how how do things count?

[47:53] do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do All right. Sweet. Okay, I think that's probably enough for that. >> So I So I sent this screenshot. Yep, go ahead, Dan.

[48:06] Over to my YouTube rep and I was basically like, "Okay, I'm trying to understand what's going on here. It seems like this brand is buying views against this video." Um so you can actually see it on the

[48:19] left there. That's my my left circle. I hadn't switched to a fold phone yet, so with. And I wanted to send just one screenshot because I don't know, whatever. I did. So on the

[48:32] left, you can see the stair step of where the brand like ran an advertising campaign to buy views for this video, right? Yeah. So it got a lot of views,

[48:45] but you can see the watch time is relatively tanked. Basically negligible. Like not just Not just doesn't track in lockstep with the views because I would

[49:00] lockstep with the views because I would fully expect that a purchased view viewer might not stick around for as long, right, as someone who >> stick around for 5 seconds. comes across the content organically, right?

[49:18] Well, she should message me then. I didn't get a message from her. Uh Sorry to interrupt, yeah. >> Yeah, no, all good. Okay.

[49:33] her. Um Okay, fine. I'm doing it. Um Okay, fine. I'm doing it. I'm I'm doing it. I'm doing it now. Yeah, no, she did she did not message me. So, I don't know.

[49:47] There, I've sent it. So, basically my my So, my question to the YouTube rep was like look, I understand that how a view is counted is sort of the secret sauce. YouTube doesn't share the criteria. But is it

[50:02] maybe possible for me to at least understand how something like this can happen? Curiously, there's been a small uptick in subscribers that seems to correspond to the the the

[50:15] campaign that's being run. Really? How do you get new views, new subscribers, do you get new views, new subscribers, but functionally zero new watch time?

[50:33] Yeah, since they're running it as an ad, it's not surprising people would be watching for far shorter than usual. Yeah. And I said, Yeah, I get that. I'm just wondering why that qualify You can take it away, then.

[50:47] Why that qualify as a view? It would seem like um you know, organically, if people were finding this organically, you know, a 3-second view or a 5-second view probably wouldn't count as a view. I

[51:01] have no answer on that. Um but what is very clear to me is that view like doesn't necessarily have a set definition. Because I cannot I I don't think I've

[51:16] ever in my 18 years of uploading to YouTube ever seen a video >> That's very strange. >> that tracked that far off for watch time Which is clearly just people clicking skip ad. Clearly. Yeah.

[51:31] >> Yeah. But at the end of the day, right? Like >> as well, by the way. I was trying to talk to somebody about how viewership on YouTube is like mind-blowingly spiky these days.

[51:44] surprising because I thought that video was pretty good. And I went to bring up Okay. >> Cuz I was trying to point out that it expect. Then I was like, "What the heck?" So, I went on this huge tangent

[51:57] going on. And then I saw those charts, and I was just like, Well, it's pretty obvious what happened. Yeah, but nobody actually watched it. subscribed to the channel. Unless there's like whole bot networks

[52:13] snake eating its own tail kind of that are that are that that will watch >> like it was and then subscribe or >> views. This is feels like it was YouTube ad views. Oh, that I have that I don't

[52:27] know. Probably. But no, what I'm saying is No, no, what if there's bot networks that are designed to to to watch the the ad content?

[52:39] legitimate users so that those bot accounts can be reused later or >> Yeah. Like they're just farming new bot accounts or something. I Look, I don't >> piggybacking on a system that exists to try to legitimize themselves in some

[52:52] Interesting. Um And you know what? It's not the most And you know what? It's not the most egregious sort of abuse of of of metrics getting something for their money that I've ever seen. I remember my old boss

[53:07] at NCIX, not Taran, not the owner of the company, uh Jack. I remember him explaining to me how magazines and newspapers managed to sell their advertising for so much money, and it blew my mind at the time because, you

[53:22] know, to me, a techie guy for whom 1 MHz is 1 MHz and nothing more and nothing is 1 MHz and nothing more and nothing less, right? Um to to have something so emotional be sold and then bought by somebody was just

[53:37] inconceivable, right? But he's like, "Yeah, so you got to understand that on the internet, you know, an ad view is an ad view by and large. But with magazines, um they would actually have like a

[53:50] So, first they would assume that every single magazine that was sold was sold in it. >> But then they assume it's left on a god. >> think the multiplier, you know,

[54:03] depending on the Yeah, depending on the the the the publication could be 2x or even 5x. And these are just like assumptions that would be kind of like hidden in the in the footnotes of the sales deck, but That's wild. Yeah,

[54:19] sales deck, but That's wild. Yeah, right. To a certain limited degree, But it's There's no way it's as high as they were saying. >> No, I mean, there's no way it was even one. Like if we're being real. Like what

[54:31] what happens to an unsold magazine? It didn't get read by three people. Also, magazine is read. I know back when magazines were a thing, it was very common to be like, "Oh yeah, I read front page and page eight, and that's it

[54:46] every time. I don't read anything else." So, Actually, back in those days, I didn't know that that many people that would knew anybody. So.

[54:58] I mean, there's certain magazines that the articles were the only thing that I was interested in. Mhm. Mhm. For sure. Yes. It's important to note as well. >> Everything else was unnecessary filler.

[55:13] Mhm. I and I would I would And sometimes there was filler on them. And I would make sure I would check every page. I would check every page to to verify if it was in fact filler. And and I would look closely to to be sure that I knew

[55:28] went past it. >> time on those pages verifying that they were filler. >> Yes. Yes.

[55:43] uh topic two. The RAM shortage Oh. is here to stay, likely resulting in raised prices on PCs and phones. Ah, yes. Thank you, and phones. Ah, yes. Thank you, International Data Corporation, IDC, for

[55:57] verifying what everyone else I think has known for a while. Um IDC market analysis finds that because memory makers like Micron, Samsung, and SK Hynix are shifting supply to AI data

[56:10] devices, and companies that compete on low price with budget products are getting hit hardest and are responding by raising prices or cutting features. Apple and Samsung have secured their supply early, as if that's going to stop

[56:25] them from raising prices. But PC makers like Dell, HP, Acer, et cetera are already signaling price increases as memory costs climb. Um so yes, it's memory costs climb. Um so yes, it's another RAM pop RAM apocalypse topic,

[56:38] but there are a couple of new things that um Oh, that make this not like what we've seen before. Um so,

[56:50] first something that we have seen before, Valve discontinued the least before, Valve discontinued the least expensive Steam Deck. This was the $400 LCD model that was sometimes on sale for as little as $350.

[57:04] Um it has been quietly discontinued, and quietly all of the remaining stock was snapped up. So, now the cheapest Steam Deck, I believe, is the uh the OLED

[57:17] Hold on a second. I'm trying to find it. Uh-oh, my search here is not find Is it in the dock or Oh, yeah, here it is. So, now the most affordable option is the

[57:29] 512 gig OLED version for $550. the Steam Deck was so the affordability of the Steam Deck was

[57:45] such a game-changer like for PC gaming. Um and to be clear, I have hope that affordable Steam Deck It's just that you can't do anything about your

[58:00] supplier cost. Yeah. And I don't think it's fair to >> to do this at all. >> I don't think it's fair. Yeah, exactly. >> I don't think it's fair. Yeah, exactly. To be mad at Valve over their incoming

[58:12] supply over their sourcing costs going up >> And to be clear, I I I like to often point out their 30% take and how they're not quite the benevolent gods that people

[58:26] say that. They are pretty freaking cool in a lot of ways. >> but the way that Valve has approached gambling, for instance, the way that Valve just kind of takes their take, and um

[58:39] imperfect algorithmic, et cetera, and uh you know, not standing up to payment processors around us just being allowed to spend our money however we like, Valve is not perfect. However, >> one of the ways that they've actually

[58:52] been super cool for a long time is they're really not They understand the thing, and it's going to have our store on it, and you're going to buy our thing doesn't have to be too expensive. Um and they've been keeping stuff like

[59:05] the Steam Deck like really cheap for a long time. And I they're like, "Oh, RAM prices are up. We can loot people now." Which is >> that way. >> I'm for sure happening. I'm

[59:18] companies somewhere. And I really don't think it's happening. >> So, basically, we're not bootlicking Valve. We're just trying to make sure Valve. We're just trying to make sure that our anger right now is directed at

[59:32] the correct sources. You're going to start having like fancy fancy restaurant pricing for things where it just says like market price on everything. And the don't know. I feel like that's something that I did not get across very well last

[59:47] week when I was trying to talk about the the sort of perspective shift. Um a lot of the So that that whole conversation went up on LMG Clips and a lot of people were extremely mad about it. In fairness, I I did not open the

[1:00:01] conversation very tactfully. Yeah. >> Um but the point I was trying to you're >> to as >> to as taxless was in fact taxless plus

[1:00:14] >> I think part of the problem is that you script think out loud. Mhm. I've been thinking about this since you mentioned it before the show. And I think that was Linus script thinking out loud, which is where you you kind of

[1:00:28] start with this dramatic position. Oh, I see. And then you distill it and you research it and you massage it into a well-thought-out argument that ends up being a script. And you script thunk out

[1:00:43] "Oh." A lot of people didn't watch that far into the clip. I can tell you that get across and and so a lot of the comments are about how like well, you got to understand that like housing is

[1:00:57] way more expensive. We have a lot of American viewers. And food is way more expensive and and computers are way more expensive and and I guess like what I what I was trying to get across last week is like if for the last I mean

[1:01:12] realistically, the whole thing kind of goes back to sometime in the '70s when um when wages just completely decoupled from corporate earnings um cuz they tracked pretty close up

[1:01:25] until like '70s, '80s. Um I wonder what happened back Um but they tracked pretty close up until then and then they just completely decoupled from each other. And I guess the point that I was trying to make last

[1:01:40] week is like if you've been having the [ __ ] kicked out of you for 50 years by [ __ ] kicked out of you for 50 years by housing and food and shelter or sorry,

[1:01:53] housing and and food are um and and utilities and essentials >> now, too. Energy prices are going through the roof and all that stuff. through the roof and all that stuff. >> and then and then all that time, gaming

[1:02:07] has been there for you with a full retail game being $60. Somehow, in spite of everything else going like this going like this and computers have been there for you

[1:02:21] like this while everything else has gone like this and flat screen TVs have been there for you like this while everything else has gone like this. Flat screens are still there for some reason. Somehow. Um

[1:02:35] I guess what I was trying to get across last week was that yes, this RAM pricing blip really sucks, especially if you have to buy some RAM right now. have to buy some RAM right now. But compared to the absolute beating

[1:02:50] that all of these other essentials have been dishing out, um they it still hasn't even remotely kept up with how much everything else has gone up and

[1:03:05] it's it sucks. And especially the reason sucks. Like the fact that it's just so that we can have more AI that I don't think anyone, especially in this community, is really asking for. Yeah, more I'll a

[1:03:21] massive amount of the output that I see from those systems is junk that no one wants. So if we didn't just make all the junk it you know, this probably wouldn't be happening legitimately.

[1:03:34] Um so yeah, I guess I guess what I was trying to get across is like guys, the fact that we can still buy a Steam Deck for $550. That's a lot worse than $400, which is how much we could buy it for a week ago.

[1:03:50] For how much value and how much entertainment and how much we can entertainment and how much we can extract from that Steam Deck for $550, hey, let's not be super mad at Valve about

[1:04:08] this. You can be you can be mad about the situation. You should be mad about the situation. Like dude, I was I was reading about uh how much the uh the the big big food lobby has engaged

[1:04:24] with the current administration to defang the the good parts of the Make America Healthy Again initiative. >> And it's been like unprecedented.

[1:04:37] They're all spending at rates that are like like at least decade-long highs, in some cases all-time highs to to just defang all this stuff. You should defang all this stuff. You should totally be mad. You should be super mad

[1:04:50] to be mad about. >> But I do feel like in some ways, and the perspective adjustment. I feel like in some ways, our passion for gaming and

[1:05:03] our passion for technology is making it so that we are more angry at this thing that at this thing that that we love than at the things that

[1:05:18] have actually been beating the [ __ ] out of us far more over a much longer period of time. Um great job of explaining that. But I was trying to I was trying to be I was

[1:05:32] trying to be more positive. >> I was trying to be a little more Um And you know what? It's funny because And you know what? It's funny because there was a time probably about

[1:05:48] stop. It's so dead. It's like so dead at this point. >> becomes fun. I am that old guy. >> Yeah. Nice.

[1:06:01] go. Yeah. See, now it's fun. Now it's fun. >> even I can't even do it right, but Uh okay. Anyway, there was Totally fake Earth 2 whole playing chance. Mods ban them.

[1:06:22] Ah, there you go. There you go. Uh we were really leaning into more negativity in our content. More like anger at the stagnation in in like silicon stagnation in in like silicon improvements, more rants, and and Yvonne

[1:06:36] actually kind of like sat me down and was like, "Okay, listen. Is that good for anybody? Does that help anybody? Does that help anybody get a Based upon >> Does that help anybody

[1:06:49] >> Does that help anybody um you know, feel more positive about the the system that they're building to like play play games? Like can you find a positive side? And and I I kind of went, "Okay, yeah. Like I Yeah, I I

[1:07:02] think I can." Like Excuse me. The Steam Summer Sale is still there for us, you know? There's so many games that come out these days that do not have high system requirements. And like I know I I know I know that

[1:07:16] there's a large extremely vocal part of the community that is very angry about new games having high system requirements that can't be run without upscaling or frame generation or whatever else. And it's

[1:07:29] like Woah. Woah. Woah. Like you could probably count on your fingers and toes those releases. Whereas every week, Steam gets flooded with many games that are a lot of fun to play

[1:07:43] computer. >> There's a very interesting tone shift because of how much people liked Crysis. I know. I know. >> impossible to run. And it was like fun trying to see if you could

[1:07:55] >> But I just but but but okay, you know what? I think that is such a critical point that you've landed on there. Because why are people yelling at me over on LMG Clips? Why are people yelling at

[1:08:10] >> way you framed YOUR ARGUMENT SUCKED. NO, NO. HOLD ON. HOLD ON, MAN. OKAY. >> You know, why are people yelling at game developers for building games that are super that demand the high the fastest computers? Why are people Why are people

[1:08:22] angry at all of these at all of these places that didn't create the problem? Well, it's because of that passion. That's exactly what I was talking about. So so back then, they didn't have at least to the same degree that it's there

[1:08:37] now, all these external stressors. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? That are impeding on their ability to It was so much easier to just live. to splurge on a new GPU or to or that could make it so you could aspire to one day

[1:08:52] owning a system that could run it. It's the hopelessness that is actually caused by all these other factors. I mean, when was the last time on WAN Show,

[1:09:04] okay? Think about it. When was the last time we talked about a When was the last time we talked about a technology industry hiring wave?

[1:09:17] COVID. It It happened. It would have been early interesting just on this topic. We started this company in your garage. That was a normal thing for companies with

[1:09:34] very low amounts of money to do back then. I Most people don't have garages anymore. Like that that is if if now position. Yep. Which is nuts. >> Even then it was a privileged position.

[1:09:49] I mean, I remember Yvonne and I shopping for our house and pushing ourselves for a detached house. have garages though. >> And that was with her Well, okay. I

[1:10:03] mean, yes, but also not by as much as you might think. We were already in the burbs. We already it wasn't like a large house. was older. It was It was quite It was old when we

[1:10:17] bought it. But not like not like cool, >> retro. >> No, it was just It was just old. something something modern. And so we we almost bought like a row home.

[1:10:31] Yeah. That was what was That was what was like kind of comfortable. And then we pushed ourselves hard. And you've got to remember that I am married to someone who I don't think really clued in to how exceptional she is until I finally did

[1:10:45] it. I think I got through to her. Um we were we were uh in the Costco parking lot. We were kind of like walking into the store and I um I was like, "Yeah. You know, I've I I I always like knew,

[1:11:00] but I never really thought about how insane it is that you got hired as the insane it is that you got hired as the manager of a Costco pharmacy at 23. That is [ __ ] insane.

[1:11:15] Just graduated. Major corporation. >> Straight to manager. >> Super high hiring standards. Straight to managing a department with functionally no experience. I mean, she

[1:11:27] her practicum. And I think she had like a year's experience working at Sorry, working at Save-On. Um in the pharmacy there. And she went Um in the pharmacy there. And she went straight to managing a department. And

[1:11:42] and and I was like I was I I was thinking about it because thinking about it because I don't think we've ever seen and no offense to the many many very talented people who work for and who have applied

[1:11:55] I don't think we have ever seen anyone who's walked in at 23 and we've gone, who's walked in at 23 and we've gone, "Holy [ __ ]

[1:12:08] We will hire this person to manage a team of 15 to 20 people immediately." And she was like, "Oh yeah, I never really thought about that before." And I was like, "Yeah, okay. Have I finally gotten through?"

[1:12:20] So the anyway, the point that I was getting at here is that was with the benefit of her working as a pharmacy manager, which is not normal for our cohort. I should not have been married to someone

[1:12:33] that was making six figures. I also dropped out and got extremely I worked hard and I like to think that I'm also not stupid, right? But I got pretty lucky. Not everyone who took an entry-level job at NCIX

[1:12:49] advanced to senior management in 4 years or whatever 5 years or whatever it was. >> think you're making all this comparison, which is all fair, but your house that house was more expensive than a lot of other options that were available.

[1:13:02] And the location makes it way more expensive. If we're looking at like the as a whole Sure. >> it was relatively common to have a garage available to start your company in at that year. So okay, I was looking

[1:13:16] at it within from like a Vancouver market perspective. You're looking at it people who would have watched the video. watched the video. >> In Vancouver

[1:13:29] even then It was still a garage was crazy. And it was because Yvonne and I just like teamed up and life'd together hard from

[1:13:41] 18, which is also not normal. Yes. Like I I I look back and I go, "If I'd had to solo it for

[1:13:55] instead of having a partner, everything would have been way harder. everything would have been way harder. Absolutely everything." Um But yeah, no. I And now I mean, there

[1:14:09] are still places that are that are cheap. Every once in a while I'll I'll just like I'll I'll jump onto a real estate listing site and you know, you'll find like a detached home that's

[1:14:24] You look at it and you go, "Yeah, I couldn't even I couldn't even buy like an empty lot in like Chilliwack for that." somehow get rid of all the material that is the current house.

[1:14:38] >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Well, no. In some parts of the states and stuff like you can you can buy a whole house like that you can live in tomorrow for like lot in Chilliwack. >> Cuz I've walked through places around

[1:14:50] here that like seem like they're nicely priced and then as you're walking the wood in the floor is so like rotten and moldy that you're like concerned you're going to fall through the floor and

[1:15:05] there's just like doom and treachery around every corner. Uh it's It's can get pretty sketch on the cheaper end. about? Oh, right. Are they Have they figured things out?

[1:15:18] >> They have. It's working. I have verified IT'S WORKING. IT'S WORKING! SO I'LL GO THROUGH THE FLOW. SO IF YOU if you go on the lttstore.com site, you can click on this banner, which says view video on YouTube. Uh the video is

[1:15:33] >> Banner, I hardly know her. The video is unlisted, so you're probably going to have to find it through the site. Um but if you go to the unlisted video that you can click on the banner on the store to get to, uh you can then see these

[1:15:46] screwdrivers, which say they're a certain cost, uh but maybe don't worry about that cost. And then you click on it. Then you add it to cart. And then when you get there,

[1:15:58] it's discounted. There's two of them here. It's discounted. Oh, there there "Uh uh Wait, what?" Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. Yep. That

[1:16:10] there. >> works. Is the flow weird? Yes. Yes. Does it work? Also yes. Double yes. Yeah. Yes, yes. not working. There there is a there is a point that you get to in this flow that

[1:16:26] feels strange. I'm going to point it out. You you click on You click on So uh let me go back. Oh my god. You're on the video. You scroll down. You click on the thing. It shows this price here. You click on the thing. You get there and I

[1:16:39] don't see anything going on, you know? I don't see any discounts or anything. 20 Yeah, watch the video. >> this price, which is what 99% of people to read anything else. Looks like that. If you click add to cart and then go to

[1:16:53] If you click add to cart and then go to your cart, now it's correct. Um Yeah, now it's correct because I have I have gone into my cart to see it. So you follow-through. It's like a golf swing or something.

[1:17:10] You ever compare your sales pipeline to a golf swing? Can't say I've ever compared anything to golf in any way. Oh.

[1:17:24] same screwdrivers you know and love just dressed in some very fun, very nostalgic dressed in some very fun, very nostalgic Y2K clear tech colors uh Prismagic series. That discount that Luke showed you, the 20% off that we've teamed up

[1:17:36] with YouTube Shop to offer is from December 26th to 30th. out on the store right now. If you've ever seen our Lumafield CT scanner

[1:17:50] video, this might look a little familiar. It's inspired by the see-through scans that we get when we put products in the machine. Cool, right? That is cool. >> So we've got um

[1:18:04] have someone wearing a Vision Pro. Uh oh, right behind the mic, right there. We've got a CPU. Eh, there it is. These are actual scans out of the Lumafield scanner. Uh we've got a little breadsaurus um plastic toy.

[1:18:19] We've got a screwdriver in there. I think there's a Yep. There's a game controller. So you can see like the rumble motors and stuff. Um And it's just kind of a cool

[1:18:32] don't look that closely at, they might not even realize that it's like a whole bunch of a whole bunch of tech and stuff. Um lmg.gg/alloverprint.

[1:18:46] but wait, there's more. It's finally here. >> here. The first-party bit case

[1:19:04] 7 830. Holds 30 bits. >> 7 What? Stop it. I don't know. Stop it. They didn't even see you do that. They can't even see you

[1:19:16] He's over here He's over here dabbing again. Stop it. Um Anyway, the point is it closes with a magnet and it has one of those little

[1:19:28] key things so you can throw a magnetic cable management power bar holder on it and then you can just like stick it to stuff. And and but wait, there's more.

[1:19:46] But we finally have Pozi drive. Oh. For our European friends. of people don't even realize that there is a difference. Um and they just grab a Phillips bit when the screw is actually Pozi drive

[1:20:01] and then they wonder why it's slipping or getting stripped. Turns out wrong bit. We now have Pozi drive bits for when you actually need Pozi drive bits which is more often than you might realize. Uh IKEA for instance I believe

[1:20:13] uses Pozi drive so you can shop both the LTT screwdriver bit case and the Pozi drive bits at lmg.gg/pozibitcase.

[1:20:26] Um p o z i bit case. Anyway, uh wait oh what? Page It was there. Hold on. What just happened?

[1:20:40] Hold on. What just happened? No, not that. No, no, I know but it it went it went it went it I'm so confused. See? home page. Please tell me it's on the home page.

[1:20:56] Nice. Pozi_bitcase Good enough. We'll figure it out. Drop table employees asks why bit holder 30 bits such a missed opportunity to make it 32-bit. I know, right?

[1:21:13] It was the exact same thing with the um with this one too. I wanted to make the the precision bit set. I wanted to make it 64-bit but it just ended up working out better to be 60-bit. So, I'm sorry.

[1:21:30] time. Next time. That'll be the sequel to both So, lots of good stuff on the store this week. Great time to you know, pick up the Christmas present that you didn't get.

[1:21:43] We actually I it's now become consistent. I I've noticed that there is a spike on Christmas Day even if we don't have any promos running. >> People expected a thing and then they're just like still sitting on the couch and

[1:21:55] like add to cart, check out, see you. Uh or people spending Christmas money. So, it's one of it's one of the two but it's 100% a thing. That makes sense. I a long time. Yep. Yep.

[1:22:14] to explain merch messages. So, if you're new to WAN Show Thanks for hanging out with us on the WAN Show. If you're new then the way to

[1:22:26] interact with the show is not to throw money at your screen. We're really not that into that. Um frankly, you know, I'm doing pretty >> I'm all right. >> Um that doesn't mean that we don't like

[1:22:39] making money. And there are other people that work here. We do and that's our jobs and that's their jobs and uh you know, yeah, that's cool. But what we also like a lot is working

[1:22:51] But what we also like a lot is working hard for that money. We really do. We we So, kind of a glutton for it I think. >> We so often choose the hard path. instead of just having you throw money at us through Twitch bits or

[1:23:06] um whatever the YouTube ones are called super chats or anything like that, uh we create what we feel are really amazing products and we have you guys buy those products and then you can send a message to the show like that and then even if

[1:23:20] we don't get to your message, um you still get high quality merchandise in the mail. It's it's a great it's a pretty good system. So, why don't we show you guys how it works? Um you go ahead and you go on to

[1:23:32] the site, you add something to your cart and when you're in your cart, Luke's cooking. Let him Let him cook. live you will see >> No,

[1:23:44] I meant to click the arrow to go to the next one. Yeah, sure. We'll pick transparency mode. Nice. Thomas is such a chad. Um okay, there you go. Merch message. So, you write a little message that will

[1:23:57] go to producer Dan. There he is. Stop it. No. I like I like this stuff. STOP IT. NO, we're just going No, forget it. Stop it. Uh it's great. That will go

[1:24:13] to producer Dan. Try again. There it is. Who will put your merch message on the screen like that one that's up there?

[1:24:25] screen like that one that's up there? Tina V, what's up? Uh or who will reply to it or who will curate it for me and Luke to respond to. Why don't we show you guys with a couple curated messages how that works. Sure, got one here from

[1:24:38] how that works. Sure, got one here from Josh. Hey Linny Louie and Glenn saying hi from Toronto. I Toronto. What do you think is the most pressing issue tech is facing but doesn't get much media attention? Brain rotification of social

[1:24:53] media perhaps? There's a decent amount of attention on that. That is probably the biggest single problem but >> I'm going to say the biggest single >> I'm going to say the biggest single problem is perverse incentives.

[1:25:07] Okay. So, he just he just he just went one step down. He went to the root. Yeah. Yeah. >> But they they asked what the biggest >> It's a good move. But that it's arguable that that's the

[1:25:19] biggest problem with like everything. >> Yes. Perverse incentives, they're a huge problem. I mean, we talk about it from like a a management perspective often like creating KPIs for people that

[1:25:34] behaviors that are destructive to themselves, their department, the entire themselves, their department, the entire company. Um that just like Like you could you could create an incentive for someone to uh you know, I

[1:25:49] don't know reply to the most emails, right? Or you know what a great example, Linus Torvalds called out um you know, a super you know, visionary tech leader for valuing lines of code. >> Oh man, there was a lot of points in

[1:26:02] that video. I watched the whole thing. There was a lot of points in that video I felt very validated about different stances. That was >> Yeah. Well, I specifically brought that up on your behalf.

[1:26:15] >> like, "There's a particular member." And I was like, "Yeah." I was like, "Yeah." It was great. Um and and and so and and and by creating theoretically, right? Like on the very very very top

[1:26:28] crust of the earth's surface, um crust is very thin relative to the depth of could be a good idea. >> He tells me he has kids. You want your you want your developers to like code a lot. Right?

[1:26:41] Sure. Passes the initial I >> Person should be doing work. What is work? Typey typey. Right. I want lots of >> That's the amount of thinking that But if you were to think about it for longer

[1:26:55] than about 4 seconds, you might think, "Oh, wait. Quantity is probably not the most beneficial thing to this person." >> Maybe extremely valuable. One of the keys that they could typey typey is backspace or delete. Yeah, who knows?

[1:27:09] Um and and so and and and so if you think about it, you know, you're you're creating an incentive for potentially slapdash, shoddy, inefficient work. Um slapdash, shoddy, inefficient work. Um and so and so perverse incentives exist

[1:27:24] everywhere. And you know, right now I think that in And you know, right now I think that in gaming for instance, um gamers gaming for instance, um gamers have created a reward system for

[1:27:37] developers that rewards forever live service, gacha, embedded ads, um expensive uh loot boxes, >> Pay to win. roster packs, pay to win. Um

[1:27:52] >> Pay to win. roster packs, pay to win. Um and and it is human nature to get a and and it is human nature to get a reward and repeat that behavior. And and the only difference now is that we're doing it on an industrial scale.

[1:28:06] Um you know, I think that the I think that the the new the business funding machine has created perverse incentives to target infinite exponential growth because that's where they get their reward from

[1:28:20] and that's where we get bizarre behavior like buying all of the memory in the world for an entire year. Um we were talking a lot about piracy earlier in the show. Um I think that by

[1:28:38] earlier in the show. Um I think that by in some cases pirating online media, we can create perverse incentives for ever more intrusive advertising and paywalls and monetization structures because people expect to be paid for their work

[1:28:54] which is wild. Crazy, right? Um but I think if people had continued to not become immune to banner ads or block not become immune to banner ads or block them, we might not have ended up with

[1:29:09] Say something. Remember that? Do you remember that audio clip cuz I will remember that audio clip cuz I will never forget it. What? >> in my brain, but I don't remember what it's for or from. Did they say something

[1:29:23] thing that I've heard. >> ad for something. I don't remember what it was, but it was an audio banner ad, yeah. And it was just it was the most would hear I I like oh my god, my

[1:29:36] >> Yep. >> Yeah, I remember this yeah, I just And um and yeah, so I I and with on the subject of ad block, right? I never said don't do it.

[1:29:51] I've even showed people how to do it. But what I did say was consider the outcomes. Every action we take has consequences. Every action we take has consequences. And if you want quality media that you

[1:30:04] enjoy, if you want, you know, quality writing if you want, you know, quality writing that you like to read, um then you may consider that those things need financial support to exist.

[1:30:21] Um or you may not. But then just, you know, when we're in the dystopian AI know, when we're in the dystopian AI slop future, um slop future, um just, you know, understand that we all,

[1:30:35] me, him, even him, we all had a part to play in in in this outcome. And this is really really keyboards. One moment, please. This is really

[1:30:49] really important. We might have ended up there anyway. intrusive ads. We might have ended up with AI slop, all the things, and and human jobs being cut. We might have ended up there anyway because corporate

[1:31:03] greed truly knows no limits. Um know now. >> Yeah.

[1:31:15] true, but also if the incentives are are the opposite, where like if you if you don't support things that do that, the corporate greed will follow where the incentives are. The corporate greed is a

[1:31:29] guarantee. Yeah. But if we provided incentives, um to build high-quality products, for instance, follow that. Yeah. But we provide incentives to build disposable,

[1:31:44] the cheapest possible thing, and, you know, that's why That's why North American manufacturing was offshored.

[1:31:59] dodge offshored I mean, if I can talk at them that way, then maybe they can yell at me through it. You can make speakers be microphones. Can you make

[1:32:11] microphones be speakers? Um yes. Can you? I think so. it hard enough, probably. I don't know that they'd be loud, but you can yeah. All right, so then it could happen. We'll ruin the mic.

[1:32:26] I don't think they're concerned about that. Yeah. So um so this is one of those things that it's like we we have no further to look than, you know, in the mirror. And I'm a participant every single time that I go to the dollar

[1:32:39] store to buy a barbecue scraper rather than buy one from SmarterEveryDay. >> There is I think I've I think I've pointed this video maybe a couple times on WAN Show, but there is a video by Speed.

[1:32:51] Like IShowSpeed? No. This comes up every time. Um barbecue scraper man. Yep. I love that that's like in some circles what he's known for now.

[1:33:04] Really? Yeah. That is pretty interesting. Yeah, right? Uh can I find this video? He did a video on like buying you know, they don't make them how they used to. Is that true?

[1:33:18] Um and it's actually very interesting if I can even find it, which so far I can't. Speaking of perverse incentives, YouTube titling and thumbnails. YouTube titling and thumbnails. We wouldn't do it I didn't even try to

[1:33:32] because you know, I'm not like oh, this guy does it clickbait. It's just like it's a standard on the on the platform now, right? You like basically have to. Um

[1:33:46] I don't think it's that Only hike it says all incentives are perverse and degrade moral integrity. When you make a decision based on only benefits, you're not exercising your moral willpower and it will atrophy over time. The starting

[1:33:59] point of any decision should be your own moral framework. Which is >> a cool in theory. It's great in theory. >> Welcome to companies. And the second that you have 100 mouths to feed, um

[1:34:13] and you make It's not even just that. The the standard state for companies is is corporate greed. That's how companies work. It's honestly at a certain level how they sort of have to. Sort of. I mean, you don't even have to start

[1:34:26] there, which is why I started with the second you have 100 mouths to feed, and pivoting your company in some way will be the difference between a Christmas bonus and mass layoffs, then I will ask I'll I'll turn the

[1:34:38] question around on you and I'll ask which was the moral choice. Mm. Because the railroad tracks were your own personal integrity, oh, or all of your employees lined up, tied

[1:34:53] all of your employees lined up, tied down on the railroad track. that simple. But then there are also some layoffs that are super simple. Um where it's like, I don't know, stock dollar number go up if fire large number

[1:35:09] Yeah. >> I choose boat. incentive. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh Amaria says Linus is taking gambling ads next year, confirmed. Uh no, we are very far from

[1:35:22] uh we are very far from that point. Um interesting that's an interesting line though. I mean, it's one of those things that's um I found it.

[1:35:37] >> Yes. If Colton came to us and said, "Hey, you know, the industry's getting hit super hard.

[1:35:49] advertising in coming in from tech sell anything anyway because, you know, literally like they don't they can't get enough RAM to sell computers

[1:36:03] Um Hot take, I think that's actually a really good uh decision for them to do, but anyways. Um you know, basically, our revenue is going to be down by 30%.

[1:36:16] have some buffer. We're not an irresponsibly run company. Um and we have we have done it before, and, you know, to an extent, we'll do it again, where we'll we'll cut profits in order to

[1:36:31] maintain head count. But we're going to lose 10% of our people. We're going to lose 10%. I have a solution. We're going to work DraftKings or, you know, whatever, and they'll basically pay us a guaranteed,

[1:36:45] year. Um would you rather cut 10% of your teams, or would you rather take a gambling sponsorship? And to be clear, I'm not saying As you can tell, he's agitated cuz his

[1:36:58] thing. Um It's a it's a constant state, but it ramps up when I'm when I'm agitated, that's for sure. Yeah, and this is all this is all easy for people to say. It's it's all easy for people to take a

[1:37:11] stance on until it's someone they know personally. Uh you know, good people. Good people. Cuz the reason why I'm saying good people is this is not one

[1:37:29] The this this scenario you're laying out is that it's not because of anyone's individual failure. We just have to cut heads. Yep. Uh And I mean, look, this is and this is a hard truth. The head that we cut won't

[1:37:42] be mine. I'm I'll I can absorb some of it, it's not going to be like, oh, let's just like not have Linus anymore, and not happening. I do think there's that like uh how the

[1:37:56] Nintendo executives dealt with Wii U is just like deeply based. Deeply. But it >> For those who didn't know, uh Nintendo like slashed executive pay when the Wii U was a failure. Like pretty hard. And they did not touch, to my knowledge,

[1:38:11] they did not touch uh I see individual contributor pay. I forget the exact details, but basically Nintendo was like hyper based

[1:38:24] thing, but this sounds accurate to my memory. No, I'm going to go find a I'm trying to be fast cuz it's on the show, but you guys are just going to >> you're waiting for him, it's funny. Um you know, 50% layoff for the CEO, and 20

[1:38:39] cuts. >> Sorry, yeah. Pay cuts. 50% layoff for >> Uh oh my god, why can't I say this properly?

[1:38:52] properly? 50% pay cut for Satoru Iwata, um and 20 to 30% reductions for other executives. Yeah. Super based. Based. executives. Yeah. Super based. Based. That being said, you said 30% rev down.

[1:39:11] solve. Well, no, it wouldn't because that's Well, no, no, that's why I said 30% revenue down, we would have to take a 10% pay cut because I'm assuming that we will absorb some of it.

[1:39:25] Oh, yeah, okay, whatever. But like I don't What I'm saying is we can't absorb all of it. So, the choice is at 30% rev down, I don't think we could even if we >> no, we couldn't. >> That's what I'm trying to communicate.

[1:39:37] we could we could for honor's sake pull the and probably would I suspect in this the and probably would I suspect in this case pull the Nintendo move. But that would not pull us out of we're still screwed. So, like And like

[1:39:51] you said, war chest, blah blah blah blah blah blah, but a 30% reduction in rev is just like take on the chin and keep going. This is like >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like I can I can tell

[1:40:06] you now, Linus Media Group Incorporated, Floatplane Inc., Creator Warehouse Inc. Floatplane Inc., Creator Warehouse Inc. do not have 30% net profit. Yeah. Which is fine. Which is fine. But a fact nonetheless.

[1:40:21] >> But it is a fact and so if it came to that, there is no well, Linus should just make less outcome. Yeah, it doesn't It doesn't resolve the problem. It doesn't resolve the problem. Yeah. Um So,

[1:40:35] say, hey look, I hope I never have to make this choice and I'm not going to think I think I want to answer the question. But but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but

[1:40:47] but but but but teams. I would just be super real about the situation that we're in. And

[1:41:00] And I think what I would do is we're in, and maybe even end up Oh, man.

[1:41:13] I would I would enthusiastically talk about things like gambling sponsorships, that it goes against the standards that we've set for ourselves, yada yada yada yada yada yada. But that

[1:41:28] there is no way that we have been able to find out of this scenario cuz again, we're in in the confines of this thought experiment, there is no other route. technical reality, we're saying this is the confines of the thought experiment.

[1:41:43] The confines of the thought experiment is the only path out is either layoffs is the only path out is either layoffs or ad sales. This is not a reality >> This is not a reality situation. So, I would talk to the people, discuss

[1:41:58] potential solutions that we don't want to do the ad thing, but if everyone is like hyper desperate and they're like, look, there literally are no jobs, I will be homeless if this doesn't happen, then we discuss as a team what that

[1:42:11] means for >> the current job market is like >> realistic. >> Could be realistic and um People are talking about across-the-board pay reductions. Oh, okay. So,

[1:42:23] that's one of those things that's a great idea until it happens to you. So, we discovered something many, many years ago when we we pretty much mostly >> interject real quick. If the whole group came to that conclusion, That's one

[1:42:37] thing. That is one thing. And that would be with leaders taking a higher pay cut, necessarily would. >> We discovered years ago that running sweepstakes instead of creating one winner creates a

[1:42:52] million losers. And it just it generates more negativity than any positivity out generated. And in the same way that if we were to cut 10% of the workforce, we'd be creating 10% low morale.

[1:43:08] All people who don't work here anymore. And if we cut the entire workforce by 10%, we'd be generating the entire workforce low morale. Yeah. And they >> there is I think there is technically a way out

[1:43:22] uh with the entire workforce reduction thing. If the whole team, the entire thing. If the whole team, the entire team rallies behind it and is like, whatever state, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah,

[1:43:36] um then cool. I think that's extremely tough. already Scrappy DP is taking a stance that would be incompatible with us hole. You'll get 10% less work.

[1:43:53] Yeah, I don't know. Like I said, it would There are specific teams that could do this, that could rally behind this banner, and there are certain teams Um I don't know where we're at. That's not

[1:44:05] even part of this conversation, doesn't really matter. I can imagine companies different companies too, where they would have been in a spot where that would be totally fine. But I can also imagine companies where

[1:44:20] rather leave. And then it's like, okay, cool. And then you kind of pivot to a position where it's like, all right, if we know we have to do this layoff thing, let's do this as like a team, and instead of just like blindsiding people,

[1:44:32] you find positions. You can work here until this time. Let's work with you full-time until then to try to help you get a spot, things like that. Um There are there are ways out to try to lessen the blow. In this specific

[1:44:46] out, you're not doing it because of individual performance, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Um Crater says, pay cuts plus company ownership percentage could maybe balance out part of the morale blow. Yeah, the

[1:45:00] issue is that it just doesn't it just doesn't really work that way. Like it's um people ultimately are most impacted by the things that most impact them directly. And that sounds like a kind of stupid unnecessary thing for me to have

[1:45:14] but it's it's the truth. At the end of the day, a whole bunch of people being miserable all at the same time in theory, you know, misery loves company and all of that, but it doesn't actually make When we say

[1:45:28] it like makes them happier that everyone's miserable, it just um is something to talk about, you know? And it can create a death spiral. Oh, yeah, I was going to say, I always

[1:45:41] I thought misery loves company is because people who are miserable will like radiate misery Yeah. Oh, yeah. misery Yeah. Oh, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. 100%. And um

[1:45:54] not >> The The Mighty Reptar said people are just type in chat. Yeah, it's tough. I'm trying to like actually think about actually being in this scenario. And, you know, emotions are going to end up

[1:46:08] going to end up getting really, really mad. Yeah, I mean, you got to Pulling >> the thing, like remember the emotional response last week when I was talking about the perspective adjustment on RAM pricing? At the end of the day, most of

[1:46:22] the things we buy in a given year are not RAM and don't have RAM in them. >> Yeah. Um but this was something that, you know, especially if Okay, let's say cuz cuz it's all about like like me right now, how does this impact me? For

[1:46:38] most people, and that's human. I'm not blaming anybody for that. But if you are the person who has been saving up for 2 years to finally buy a gaming PC or a Steam Deck or whatever it is, and you've just been you've had it yanked away from

[1:46:54] you, it's like, yeah, grand scheme of things, most things only have RAM as part of their cost. So, even if RAM goes up double or triple, that didn't double thing. Like like, you know, on numbers, on a spreadsheet, in a in a live chat,

[1:47:10] you know, it's it's not that impact For that person, it's the difference between they can buy that thing that they've been dreaming of for 2 years, and now they cannot. And for some people, a 10% pay cut could be

[1:47:24] the difference between surviving and not. And so, it's easy to say like, oh yeah, the team should just all agree on a 10% pay cut to weather the storm and not take, you know, gambling ads or whatever. But I wouldn't even

[1:47:38] it's it's not like I wouldn't understand that one person who goes, I cannot do that. Yeah, totally reasonable. But but Leah K in Floatplane chat said a while back, my my company offered a voluntary 5% pay cut as an alternative to

[1:47:52] And then there's other people in here been ruined because of a layoff that happened due to decreased revenue. Like happened due to decreased revenue. Like there is This is a no actual good answer

[1:48:06] scenario. There are a lot of those scenarios in life. And realistically, someone is going to be like possibly full-on crash-out level livid about any answer that you come up

[1:48:20] with, and you just have to try to work with people to do the best thing you can. Yeah. And that it Scrappy DP said, it will depend on the organization, depend on how that group of people can band together to move past this. It's

[1:48:33] going to depend on if that group of people even wants to. That might be the core problem in the first place. If we're being completely honest, there there's so many variables, so many different things, and it's

[1:48:45] it's it's a yeah, it's a no-win scenario. It's a hopefully reduced loss scenario. Anamaxter says, are you saying a 10% pay cut could bankrupt your employees? I don't know, possibly. I don't manage their finances.

[1:48:58] >> No matter how much money you're making, like This is exactly what I'm going to say. If you look up income and how much people are living paycheck to paycheck, it almost doesn't matter. People's expenses often will just track their

[1:49:10] income. So, at the time we bought this office, uh we were I think our revenues were over a million dollars a year, But, just because we had that much revenue,

[1:49:25] if we had if we had had a significant reduction in our revenue and we were still bringing in $700,000 a year or whatever, that's still a lot of money, but yeah, that that could have forced us

[1:49:39] bills. Dude, Dar Dar Imp um said, "I'd happily take a 20% cut to go down to a 4-day workweek." One of the problems of this scenario is How are we going to fight our way back to

[1:49:53] You got to be kidding me. That doesn't work. At that point, they might as well who's like you're going to get 10% less work, it's like okay, great. So, now we're Well, we're [ __ ] then because we've We're already struggling to

[1:50:06] cuz cuz at the end of the day, it is competition, right? Like I I do genuinely believe that, you know, my fellow tech YouTubers I like I don't see because I do think that a rising tide lifts all ships. But, in the grand

[1:50:21] picture, your ship has to be floating to go up with the tide. Your eyeballs you have a limited amount of stuff they can look at every day. Yeah. So, we do compete with the Super Bowl. We compete

[1:50:36] with that, you know, romantic novel that is waiting on your Kindle. We We do. We We Quivering.

[1:50:49] we compete with functionally every every single thing that you do for you wanting to, you know, hang with us on a Friday and and do LAN show instead of Boxing is that you might want to be doing today, right? And and so, it If we are

[1:51:05] if we're failing to meet target and failing to meet payroll, people, you know, cutting their output by 10% sure as [ __ ] isn't going to fix Like very unlikely. There we could probably

[1:51:19] In in this case as well, if this person doesn't have any ownership stake and company they're at or whatever. Totally fair. Yeah. We're we're not trying to say it's necessarily unreasonable, but it's also

[1:51:33] that. And yeah, there's that. These are uncomfortable conversations because there's no win, right? And much like the where's your line with piracy conversation that

[1:51:48] we had earlier, everyone's going to have a different line of what's okay here. That person's line was don't reduce my pay ever in any circumstance ever. I output. And that's fine. And someone else is going to have a different line.

[1:52:00] And if your team has a wild variety of different lines, this is going to be tough. I don't think it's a guarantee that they will. usually smaller teams, but I think there are teams out there that are that are

[1:52:14] are teams out there that are that are somewhat in line with how they think and speaking of teams, let's talk about the Floatplane team. We're going to do an early release of a very special LTT video and we're going to do it right

[1:52:30] now. Uh okay. Hold on. What's the special LTT video? Hold on, I'm trying to find the stupid CMS guy. There it is.

[1:52:45] it. I think it's supposed to be Oh wow, videos here that are Oh, hey, there it is. My son wanted a Kindle, so I made him test them all.

[1:53:00] test them all. This is it, folks. This is the future, potentially. It's up. It's posted. I'm very I'm excited to watch this. I'm very interested what people think. The

[1:53:15] very interested what people think. The very first video not just hosted cuz written by Linus Jr.

[1:53:27] Um and I got to say the doc was directly to the video. Why did you even look for to the video. Why did you even look for it? that managed to accidentally filter Gmail addresses from his email, so.

[1:53:40] Dell partner laptop. It's that kind of show. Yeah. through all those posts, by the way? No, I don't think so. Okay. That's cool.

[1:53:52] coming by. BUT YEAH, SO [Laughter] YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S coming down the pipeline. Maybe there's embargo things, maybe there isn't.

[1:54:05] Okay, cool. Nice. So cool. He He He told me he was, you know, he's he's become more interested in the

[1:54:20] family business over time. And and he told me he wanted to host a video because he had a lot of fun doing the I'll buy my son any gaming PC, which was or any gaming handheld for his birthday one. And that was I think his first time

[1:54:36] being on camera solo when he did like the interview portions of it. went, "Well, look, I'm not going to just like nepotism you. You don't just get to like run this company. It doesn't work

[1:54:50] like that. The audience won't accept it. The team won't accept it. I won't accept it. It doesn't work like that." But I will give him a shot. Exactly. And I basically said, "Okay.

[1:55:03] Well, I'll tell you what then. No, you can't just host a video because that's the easiest possible layup that I could give you. We're not going to do that. But what you can do

[1:55:16] is if you will if you'll write it, if you'll go through the process, and I got to give some credit to Mr. Nicholas Ploof for being kind of a mentor for for Randy during this period. Um

[1:55:30] you'll you'll go through the process and your assignment will be the least glamorous thing that I can possibly think of. think of. You will make a video on the new Kindle.

[1:55:48] most and it wasn't just it wasn't just that I was choosing like the most, you know, boring thing that I possibly could. It was also something that I know that he has personal experience with. He reads a

[1:56:00] lot and he reads physical books. He reads on his phone using the Kindle app and he reads on a Kindle. And so, I was like, "Okay, well, here's the new Color Soft. Here's a current gen Paperwhite. Here's both of our old

[1:56:16] We have an old Paperwhite and we have an old before it was Paperwhite just like like 10 years ago. I want I will lay out I I lay it out, okay, like, you know, what is good about it? What is bad about it?

[1:56:31] like? What do other people not like? What do I not like?" And I kind of laid out all the questions, kind of like a school assignment. And I kind of went, "If you answer all of these questions plus

[1:56:44] contribute any little insights that might spring into your mind as you go, I think you will have enough bones for a good video that, you know, our talented writing team and I can help you get this over the line to a standard of quality

[1:56:57] that will be acceptable for LTT." And he did And he did a really good job. Nice. Like really good. I'm genuinely excited to watch it. I'm going to spoil

[1:57:10] his the best line in the video. No, I'm going to spoil it because I think No, I think cuz that's how that's how previews work. That's how modern media works. You just tell people the best part. But I I I asked him this as I

[1:57:23] was reviewing the script. I went, "Is this your line or was this like something Ploof added?" And he goes, "No, no, that Yeah, that that was me." this you?" He's like, "No, I I don't think so. I didn't actually

[1:57:36] okay. Interesting." And so, in the conclusion, he's talking about how the Color Soft is is pretty expensive and, you know, the colors aren't that vibrant. But on the other hand,

[1:57:49] going back to this, you know, holding up the the black and white one for, you know, comics and and and manga and like like color media, feels like watching a fireworks display on a black and white TV.

[1:58:02] on a black and white TV. And I was like, That's a good line. Right? Yeah, why would you even know color black and white TVs exist?" And the fireworks display.

[1:58:17] The firework Yeah, why fireworks? It's a great line, but also what the heck? Right? Right? Huh. person to just LLM it. Oh, no. So, that's actually just his

[1:58:32] I Weird. Yeah. Cool, but also strange. Weird. Yeah. Cool, but also strange. That is such a succinct way Yeah. It's like, "Yeah, you know, it's not the most vibrant color, but going

[1:58:46] back to this is like it's a generational gap in experience, right?" I got writer dunked on by you and now I'm going to get writer dunked on by your son. THAT'S get writer dunked on by your son. THAT'S SO ANNOYING.

[1:59:03] AND UH AND YEAH, ANYWAY, he did a really great job. The hosting was pretty tough. But what's fun about the hosting was I I realized very early on in the coaching that I was doing with him that Right, I've been meaning to do this

[1:59:19] because I'll do little host coaching clinics once in a while. We actually uploaded one of them that I did with Tap and Ryan Shrout uh back when they were here for the Intel Arc >> Not an Intel one, but those guys. Yeah,

[1:59:31] yeah. And um and people responded really positively to like Linus hosting tips. positively to like Linus hosting tips. And so we're doing uh so I um I I asked Andrew, I asked him to roll the whole time.

[1:59:45] And then um I gave it over to Sammy to do a Floatplane exclusive of me >> That's cool. >> how to host a video because he had no >> Sammy said that extra will be up on Monday

[1:59:58] on Floatplane. That's cool. Yep. And um and and it's funny because I don't realize how many little things there are until I watch someone try to do it. I'm just like, okay, hold on a second. Your emphasis words, you're picking the wrong

[2:00:12] emphasis words. Here's how you choose an emphasis word. And you know, there's you know, it's obviously still his first time. But from the beginning of the video to the end of the video, there was like a marked

[2:00:24] change. So if you're looking to improve your on-camera presentation skills or >> out >> strongly recommend it. That's going to be an extra over on Floatplane. Um Sammy says on Monday. That's cool. Which which

[2:00:38] cool. Uh okay, while we're over on Floatplane, check out Luke week two. Yeah. >> had three exclusives centering around Touk week. Uh I don't know. Um What? Does it say that? Yeah, that's

[2:00:54] >> Okay, well, there's uh there's a Q&A video. There's a 36-minute Q&A video. There's a 1-hour long effectively podcast with Riley where we talk about podcast with Riley where we talk about AI stuff. And then there is the the

[2:01:08] gaming video uh titled How a New Studio Made the cool. So you guys can check that out. Lots of Luke exclusives. And then what else we got? Um Oh, or maybe you want some more insights

[2:01:22] out our closer look series where Alfred, our film production manager, and Jordan go over the new Short Circuit with uh set with facts that didn't make the Mitchell's AMD upgrade. All this and our entire back catalog at lmg.gg/fpwan.

[2:01:37] it's Christmas week, but you can get extras there There you go. Heck, yeah. Yeah, views have been pretty slow this week. Yeah. Um the last month we've actually been like

[2:01:51] >> pretty like solid. Like like we're back, baby. But it's so volatile now. It's crazy. It's also crazy that I saw what was happening this week and was like, not the reaction that would have happened before. Yeah. Which I don't

[2:02:06] necessarily think so though. I don't know, man. It's crazy. >> tell how rocky the ship is anymore. Yeah. Which is like not good. Man, Yeah. Which is like not good. Man, YouTube,

[2:02:20] about some sponsors. This show is brought to you today by Squarespace. Whether you're looking to launch a Furby alteration business or you just want to to show off your latest hobby, you need a website.

[2:02:35] That's where Squarespace can help. It's an all-in-one website platform that'll get you up and running fast. They make the webpage building process incredibly easy with a large library of templates and an intuitive drag-and-drop editor.

[2:02:49] little more you, their design intelligence tool lets you plug in a prompt, select a personality for your site, and you're basically done. We've even used Squarespace for our linusmediagroup.com website. Once your

[2:03:01] your analytics so you can finally prove to your mom and dad that a Furby business could be quite lucrative. Start building your website today, And receive 10% off your first purchase at squarespace.com/wan.

[2:03:16] If you were hoping for new outdoor gear this holiday season, but didn't find any under the tree, don't fret. Stay tuned until the end of this sponsor spot because Vessi wants to step in and give back. Vessi are known for what they

[2:03:30] claim are 100% waterproof apparel items. And since winter weather wants to stick time to check out their Stormburst lineup. They offer both comfort and traction for those wet, muddy nature walks. You can keep your hands just as

[2:03:45] of their Forecast gloves. Vessi wants to keep the holiday spirit alive, so here's the deal. Oh, this is cool. The first five people to use the code that's about to appear on the screen will once again get up to $250

[2:03:58] All right. Go do it. Go do it. VIP, everyone hates squelching socks, so save some moolah. Best of luck, everyone.

[2:04:11] Best of luck, everyone. Woah. >> That's wild. Yeah. Wait. What time do you need to go again? Yeah, pretty soon. All four. Oh, sure. I'm supposed to do

[2:04:27] more sponsor spots. This show is brought to you by AMD. Oh, what to do? Uh-oh. AMD asks that we just briefly talk about the worst gifts you've received for Christmas. I mean, as a little boy, it was always

[2:04:40] They were the worst? >> love getting socks. Well, I know, so I say socks. >> okay. Just like sweatpants and shirts, especially when it was nice clothes because I never wore

[2:04:56] nice clothes. Like people would try to give me the best for Christmas. fun one. >> And then I'm just like, nope.

[2:05:08] I feel like mine have always been pretty good. >> like pretty sick when it comes to presents. I suspect the worst thing I've already had. Like I am sorry, I'm not a good target

[2:05:22] for this. Yeah. I um I'd say like I I I probably notice it more like for my kids. Uh like we had a fun family function this year where a fun family function this year where um

[2:05:40] uh certain individuals that were of the same relationship same relationship uh sort of tree to people that were not made for my kids. And I don't think my kids noticed, but I did.

[2:05:54] It's cool that your kids didn't notice. >> That's not very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Um but I I'd say I'd say but yeah, I'd say that was more Yeah, that's not really Yeah, it's not really like me at that point. No, I I

[2:06:08] think I think the gifts that try to change you are probably the big one. Somebody got got Ryan in Floatplane chat said I got a wrench and a tackle box one [Laughter] Which, you know, uh for Yeah.

[2:06:21] for some 9-year-olds might have been sick. Yeah. creating a Christmas list that was basically five video games that I wanted

[2:06:33] and then explicitly not receiving any video games from my uh from my uh from my parents who didn't like me playing video games. And I was like, right, but like it it it would have been less irritating

[2:06:49] if they weren't so proud of the great choice they made and wanted me to be really excited about it when I was like >> you a new petticoat. Like yeah, I really >> Call of Duty. What I really wanted was Warcraft II.

[2:07:02] Oh, yeah. Um I've definitely been I I I think this is a fairly standard in my off the wall here, but normally Christmas lists are a highly respected like fallback, almost. Yeah. Unless you

[2:07:17] want this thing, then you'll probably just like get it. But Christmas list is usually like, oh, you you didn't naturally, without really much effort, this list. Yeah. So if you go off the list, it's like totally chill. And off

[2:07:31] the list is fine as long as it isn't passive-aggressively trying to change >> Totally. It's a big part of that point. >> Which I I don't think I've ever received one of those.

[2:07:43] Which is my whole thing where like I'm not I just I think I'm a bad target for Yeah. Mitchell, our customer service rep for LTT store got a sweet Christmas gift this year thanks to AMD. He got a sick

[2:07:58] Akatsuki Sure. Inspired computer setup with a Ryzen 9 7800 X3D as well as a new TV, which was actually for his parents, which is super nice, and some cool figurines.

[2:08:10] wrap up the year with AMD's latest giveaway. Use our link to enter for a chance to win a Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 7970 XT for yourself. And get this, a

[2:08:23] second one for your friend. That is so cool. Ugreen. If it isn't on your desk and it's not in your pocket, do you know where your phone is? Ugreen's Find Track Slim is a

[2:08:38] wallet and phone tracker that slides right into your wallet and is less than 2 mm thick. It works with Samsung's Find app, no need for any third-party that charging the Find Track for 1 hour will give you a whole year of use. And

[2:08:52] where your phone is, simply double press the button on the Find Track and you couch crack. Actually had to dig Yvonne's phone out of a couch crack this Yvonne's phone out of a couch crack this Christmas. Like deep. I I found I found

[2:09:07] wet things. Oh. Yeah. Uh It also uses Samsung's global network for long-range tracking including notifications to your phone if keeps a 7-day history of your device's location. Grab your fine track slim with

[2:09:20] our link below and add on a couple of Ugreen smart finders as well. What does that What does that mean? It means that It means that You know what? It's fine. It's fine. It means that my sister has a

[2:09:33] baby. Oh. >> Okay. But I definitely found I definitely found you know, food that has been down there long enough to decompose a little but not long enough to be

[2:09:47] >> Got it. >> Yeah. Which is Which is what it is. Yeah. You know, I've had babies, too. And when I had babies, there were bits of food everywhere in my house, too. It's okay.

[2:09:59] It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. Uh like soon. All right. >> Yeah, how'd that happen? How does this always happen? I'm effectively almost

[2:10:15] out of topics. How does it happen, Luke? To be fair, I have seen zero complaints. Sometimes it just do be how the show work. Does anyone want to watch it, though? Does anyone like the WAN Show?

[2:10:32] >> Yeah, no one cares, I think. >> we just not have topics? you guys to shut up and move on more if you want. No. No. That's the opposite

[2:10:44] Okay. >> Don't even suggest it. >> I'm going to start We didn't. You did. I was You know what I I got you. I got

[2:10:56] >> How about you shut up and move on? I got it. I have merch messages. There's so many merch messages. so many merch messages. Okay, what do we What do we want to do?

[2:11:09] Topics? I guess. Uh well, no. Here. Okay, how about this? How about this? Dan, do you have any any curated merch messages that are specifically for Luke? I have one that I remember correctly. >> quick, Styles. Okay.

[2:11:26] I need to quickly >> While you do that, I'm going to talk about the North Korean infiltrator who was caught working in Amazon's IT department thanks to keystroke delay. Oh, yeah. Amazon says they caught a fake

[2:11:40] Oh, yeah. Amazon says they caught a fake US-based IT hire after noticing unusual keystroke lag on the employee's work laptop, which suggested the person wasn't actually working from the United States. After investigating, the company

[2:11:53] concluded the worker was based in North Korea and attempting to funnel money back to the regime through remote work. According to Amazon's security chief, laptop was being remotely controlled from overseas. The company shut down the

[2:12:06] account after a few days and says it has blocked thousands of similar attempts in recent years, often involving North Korean workers applying through US-based Korean workers applying through US-based contractors as proxies. Yep.

[2:12:18] >> question is, as remote work becomes more common, how should companies balance monitoring employees? What a great discussion question. Uh Dan, go ahead and hit Luke with that merch message. >> Sure. Hi pirates.dlo. Love the show. My

[2:12:34] co-founder is about to become a dad. Luke, how did you handle Linus becoming a father? What was the toughest part? And Linus, uh what about people pirating And Linus, uh what about people pirating your content?

[2:12:49] necessarily what the first part of that question means. Like it's not what working together more closely and then Linus became a dad and I mean, we were Yeah, I guess we didn't know each other that well. Like he hadn't moved in yet.

[2:13:05] But uh me having a kid definitely impacted Luke more than most colleagues >> Yeah. Randy crying at night literally kept literally kept Luke awake.

[2:13:21] >> He's a loud speaker. A food-powered loud I don't know, dude. There's a certain amount of things where

[2:13:33] was I going to stop working with him over that? No. Therefore is there really much left to think about? I don't know. And I'm not trying to be, you know, offensive to the to the person asking

[2:13:47] someone said, "Why would Luke be but like uh was it a bad way? Like this is something that Linus wanted.

[2:14:01] that Linus wanted. He still worked hard and a lot. around you will make decisions and do things in their lives

[2:14:13] that indirectly affect you to a certain degree and you just have to not care for the most part. Like it's or like find the good or decide if this thing that they have done is too far for you and then just detach.

[2:14:27] live take over here. >> Yeah, to be honest. has become. I guess. Live and let live is totally a bit more of it. >> And like yeah, his room shared a wall

[2:14:41] really loud. I also got really cheap rent and great food for free. wasn't there? Yeah, there was technically Was there rent? Technically. rent. It didn't make any sense. If I remember

[2:14:57] I got free food every meal. Insane. didn't even have to cook it. His salary also wasn't much at that time because we time. Yeah. >> So, you know. But like I But I also

[2:15:13] strapped in knowing that >> No idea how much of that was legal. all of it. I think we were paying monthly at that time, too. >> I don't know. Yeah. I mean Again, another thing where it's just like I can

[2:15:27] make a big deal out of this or or I can not, which is an option. Uh yeah, I don't know. >> possible. So, yeah, I It affected me. I got slightly worse sleep. Uh but I mean,

[2:15:41] life. >> still got his decent computer on a >> I did. So, I did. Computer was good. >> So, that deal is still, you know, still Um Hey, speaking of deals still being alive

[2:15:57] and the deal maybe changing. This is probably the last major topic that Luke needs to be here for, but um Oh, right. How does Linus react to people pirating? was a torrent of Scrapyard Wars being pretty amused.

[2:16:10] the beginning of Floatplane. >> Yes, there was some very very >> Yes, there was some very very >> to start a new incredibly small multiple attempts to just rip the whole thing off. Yeah.

[2:16:23] frustrating. So, yeah. I I think it was a combination we're important enough for people to pirate. Um but also being like, "Yeah,

[2:16:35] conglomerate." >> Really hard to like pay developers and just didn't do this. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, both. Yeah. Uh okay. So, this is it. This is the last WAN Show in its current

[2:16:51] Oh, really? I have to leave now. I thought you had to go in like 20 minutes. No, like five. Oh. Awkward. >> Really?

[2:17:05] week from now. >> Oh, we'll talk about next week. Talk about IT NEXT YEAR. UH NO, NO. WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT NEXT Browser extensions vineboom.com

[2:17:20] be fine. Ever Everything's going to be fine. >> Browser Browser extensions We will miss YOU GUYS. >> NO, DAN. STOP. EVERYTHING'S GOING TO BE FINE. EVERYTHING'S GOING to be fine.

[2:17:32] It's been a good run. Browser extensions are selling your conversations with AI are selling your conversations with AI chatbots for advertising purposes. chatbots for advertising purposes. Several popular

[2:17:46] been caught collecting and selling full AI chat conversations, according to security researchers at Koi. The biggest offenders include Urban Koi. The biggest offenders include Urban VPN Proxy, One Click VPN Proxy, Urban

[2:18:00] Browser Guard, and Urban Ad Blocker, available on both the Chrome Web Store and Microsoft Edge Add-ons. Together, these extensions intercept conversations with chatbots even when VPN or ad blocking features are disabled.

[2:18:14] Despite advertising privacy and AI protections, the extensions inject scripts that copy entire conversations and send them to servers that are tied used for marketing analytics. The only way to stop the collection is to disable

[2:18:27] or uninstall the extensions entirely. Several of them were even marked as featured by Google and Microsoft, raising questions about extension store oversight. Wow, that's pretty rough.

[2:18:39] [Music] Did you do it on purpose? No. I thought we had LIKE 20 MINUTES. I ASKED you for a hard out and you said Yeah, I Yeah. What

[2:18:52] That That means like 8 to 12 months working here. but like the original hard out was 11:45, which is in 3 minutes now. sorry. >> has closed compatibility for the Sega

[2:19:07] Dreamcast's 25-year-old web browser, killing it. Four people cried out in terror and then were silenced. What I can't figure out is how they killed it. What did they do? What changed? I've looked up like a couple

[2:19:21] done enough research. But like what did Google do to cause this to happen? Big G's services no longer respond, but that doesn't mean that they killed the web browser.

[2:19:36] probably killed it a little. A little? Yeah, probably killed it a fan-supported search engines and game servers that do work on the Dreamcast, question here is do you think it's important for modern web companies to

[2:19:50] maintain compatibility with like quarter-century-old devices? What is an appropriate length of support? I mean we've talked about this, right? Like I the camp that whether it's a game developer or whether it's a service

[2:20:06] um provider that you're obligated to support stuff forever that doesn't have an ongoing forever payment. Um we just the part that we disagree about with the current way that industry does things is that we think there should be a path to

[2:20:22] users maintaining it themselves if it's so important to them. And this mostly um like game servers, for instance. If there's a way for it to go self-hosted community to continue to run it, then we're totally fine with them saying,

[2:20:35] "Hey, yeah, this is not financially viable anymore because businesses got to got to survive." Um What? What? Oh, nothing. You just you looked

[2:20:49] >> So yeah, downer, but also I I totally get it. I don't think that I would fire expectation that the web features would would work.

[2:21:03] What? Hello, is the expected time still the same? Is chat asking you to try to push it or what?

[2:21:16] whatnot. >> Ah, yes. But uh and they weren't responding to messages. I sent them quite a few. Ah, yes. Probably driving >> Yeah, makes sense. >> But but not responding anyways. Um I

[2:21:29] called and now I know that I do have to leave. Cool. leave. Cool. Good. It's probably your arrival time, not your departure time.

[2:21:43] That's probably true. So whoops. I might have even just said noon at one was at one point. >> Fun fact, um there was also an arrival >> Fun fact, um there was also an arrival versus departure times mix-up on Friday.

[2:22:04] Yeah. >> Uh I I went down to Cabo for Christmas. I decided I shouldn't say I. Yvonne and I decided to do something absolutely crazy this year, and we treated um

[2:22:18] um my siblings and SOs and kids and her my siblings and SOs and kids and her sibling and SO and kids to uh 4 days in Mexico for for Christmas. So it was a pretty pretty incredible experience, a

[2:22:33] lot of fun. Um as siblings, we've we've all been busy. You know, and it's it's easy to take family for granted, but I think that um losing my sister uh really

[2:22:48] sharpened my focus on um the the speed with which things that you assume that you've had your whole life and you assume will always be there can

[2:23:02] and you assume will always be there can be stripped out of your life. And so we Yeah, so we kind of surprised everyone and we went, "Hey, guess what? We're um we're we're doing it. Let's let's do it. We're doing something crazy." And it was

[2:23:16] a lot of fun. We we did an all-inclusive just because people >> god. especially with young kids. There's a lot of young kids. So like, uh no. But

[2:23:30] food when they want it or whatever, like cool. >> Makes life a lot easier. Uh we did go off resort once. You've got to go. Go. >> Speaking of family and Uh do you want to just call me to do the thing? Do what

[2:23:43] course. Yeah, sure. Okay, sounds good. All right, cool. See you later. Okay, see you. Anyway, yeah, we we went down. We We did one cool excursion that was Oh, no, just leave the thing. I don't I

[2:23:56] don't like it. It just framed on me. I actually I I sent a note to one of the editors, one of our one of our videos recently, just had like too much zooming in on me. I'm pushing 40, dude. I We don't need to be zoomed that close in on

[2:24:10] me anymore. This is a good This is a good framing. I I need to take more more Polaroid pictures, you know? No, hold on. something here. Shoot, I don't have the pictures on uh

[2:24:24] Thank you for that, Dan. That's that's incredibly helpful. Uh I don't have the pictures on this phone. I took along a separate um a separate phone for for actually going to be uploading a like a family vlog from it.

[2:24:38] And we did this like turtle release thing. Here, why don't you just be my We'll just drag you over there. Oh yeah, you're good. Uh but you can just you can just move the window over there. Uh so yeah, we did this um

[2:24:51] there's a there's a turtle conservation group that allows you to go and without allowed to touch the baby turtles and you're not allowed to interfere with

[2:25:03] them imprinting on the beach where they were born cuz they have to come back in order to Okay, that's an option, too. Sure. Um anyway, so it's like a conservation

[2:25:17] thing, but you can do like you can do like a turtle release into the ocean thing. So you hold a like born that day turtle in a bowl so you don't touch it, any bacteria on your hands. And then you like tip the bowl and they and you watch

[2:25:34] them like crawl into the into the waves. And they were saying that thanks to the work that they're doing, the survival rate goes from the estimate about 1 in 1,000 reach adulthood in the wild to they say about 6 to 7 in 1,000 cuz

[2:25:48] they'll go out of their way to um to release them at times when there's not a lot of seagulls and they'll uh they kind of oversee it, so they're less likely to get picked off on the way uh to the beach from the from the nest,

[2:26:02] which is pretty cool. Did I just do it again? For crying out loud. Um Yeah, that literally came up during the presentation before we did the release thing, now that I think about it. Uh was

[2:26:15] some little kid who you are now on on par with in terms of your your joke quality. Um was like 67 and everyone kind of went, "Ah." Cuz it's over now. It's 67 party

[2:26:28] is officially completely over. Has been for 67 weeks at this point. Um LG is responding swiftly to user

[2:26:40] backlash. Will allow users to remove the Microsoft Copilot link from their TVs. on this, but I think that that's probably um all we need to say. Basically, it's not a built-in TV app. It is just a

[2:26:55] shortcut to Microsoft's Copilot web app that opens in the TV's browser. And um sorry about that. Also, the microphone input was only able to activate with explicit user consent. Um we're not sure when you'll be able to

[2:27:08] delete it, but it will be able to be deleted, so that's good. Thank you, LG, for responding to the outrage in a way that is acceptable. Very nice. Very nice. Uh no, no, yes, I know you can only hide

[2:27:21] it, Shraf 2K, but they're changing that. That's why we're bringing it up. Okay, yeah, this is something. You know what? Let's push the reboot rewind update to next week. We can do

[2:27:35] >> Sure. Okay, next week. Yeah, sorry. I'm getting a lot of merch messages today. Uh yeah, I know, Dan. >> Screwdrivers are very very popular for >> really like >> They've been so excited for them. People

[2:27:50] like screwing. It's it's how the whole human race survived all these millennia. That's true. Some Yeah, they're kind of you know, it's certainly read about Read the articles about it, right? In the Economist.

[2:28:04] Um Why don't we just do merch messages? I last one. Okay, sure. China's Tencent gains access to the banned Nvidia Blackwell B200 chips by leveraging a rental loophole in US export controls.

[2:28:19] Tencent is apparently accessing Nvidia's most advanced AI chips by renting computing power overseas rather than buying the hardware directly, according to a Financial Times report. The chips are housed in data centers in Japan and

[2:28:32] company called DataSection, which rents the GPUs to customers through long-term contracts. This arrangement allows Tencent to legally sidestep US export restrictions that block Nvidia's top chips from being sold into China.

[2:28:46] Data section has signed more than 1.2 billion dollars in contracts tied largely to Tencent and now controls around 15,000 Nvidia Blackwell GPUs rapidly turning the company into one of Asia's largest so-called neo cloud

[2:29:01] providers. Data section says demand is so high that even regulatory changes wouldn't hurt much. As its CEO put it, "Access to high-end GPU capacity is a "Access to high-end GPU capacity is a very sexy asset."

[2:29:14] Oh man, yeah, our discussion question is should companies be allowed to legally computing power overseas or do you feel this undermines the purpose of those undermines the purpose of the restrictions, but it just is

[2:29:28] restrictions, but it just is the latest of many many many examples of times when legislation just doesn't move as fast as

[2:29:40] legislation just doesn't move as fast as technological innovation and in some cases I end up being really glad that it doesn't, but in other cases it's obvious that it is interfering with the abilities of governments to manage their

[2:29:56] their resources and uh I yeah, I don't I don't know sort of if that better. So, a lot of the time I really do think that it has been a benefit to the consumers, but in other cases where the innovation is not a

[2:30:12] benefit to consumers like uh I shouldn't say AI is not a benefit to consumers, but where it is largely impacting consumers in a negative fashion with all the data harvesting and the you know,

[2:30:25] encouragement to you know, off themselves of users and the romantic that have not been properly studied about this AI rollout, I do feel like legislation would move a little bit faster. Is there a reason that Luke's

[2:30:40] photo is in black and white and everyone is saying rip Luke in the chat? Floatplane is asking for it. I I don't know. >> You do know that they are not your boss. Yeah, but they they do funny things

[2:30:53] sometimes. I mean, they do definitely do funny things. Uh okay, I have to pay respects. Floatplane chat. Uh he's not dead. He's at Christmas dinner.

[2:31:12] Good chat. I mean, it's true. We love Luke. We do. We do. We do love Luke. Luke. We do. We do. We do love Luke. Um merch messages? Sure, we'll go into WAN

[2:31:27] Although it just feels like WAN Show Dark now. Uh let's see. Uh there's the button. Holy crap, there's still a ton of

[2:31:40] >> Yes. Um it's been quite heavy today. All right, let's see what we've got here. Did we do this one? Yes, we did. Hey dear little asked this last year, so I'll ask again now. What 2026 releases

[2:31:54] are you most looking forward to? Oh man, if you'd asked me this like a month and a half ago, right? Like I might have said

[2:32:06] Yeah, month and a half ago, I'd have probably said Steam Frame cuz I'm just like I'm a VR nerd. I'm really looking forward to not having a tether. I think it's going to legitimately make me use it more.

[2:32:23] Like if I could just bring a dongle with me and play lighter VR games on like my Strix Halo laptop, man, how cool is that? Like I can like no no light houses to set up. I don't know, man. It's flipping cool,

[2:32:38] but I'm I'm deeply worried about what pricing is going to be like for the Steam Machine, for the Steam Frame, for basically anything that is going to be coming out in 2026 unless

[2:32:53] in 2026 unless the bubble crashes. like I I okay, I think that video that we did where where David and I sort of reverse engineered what the pricing will be of the Steam Machine, I think it's

[2:33:08] out. I I think I think there's no way we got it right because we kind of assumed that the market had already priced in the lack of availability that was upcoming, but it looks like that is not the case and

[2:33:21] things are going to continue to get worse server. worse server. Um we also haven't accounted for the potential price increases on GPUs. Like I didn't think it was going to be so bad

[2:33:33] enough GDDR. Um oh, speaking of which, we haven't done our weekly B580 check. Guys, seriously, GPUs are going to go up.

[2:33:46] If you can still get the Oh my god, you can still get it. If you need a GPU like a decent GPU right now, go for it. Um I forget what our what our Newegg affiliate link is. Dan, can you throw it in the chat? Oh, I I also don't

[2:34:01] >> No, Floatplane's already posting it. Oh, they're so good. >> It's lmg.gg/newegg. Guys, if you need a GPU, you will thank

[2:34:13] me that you picked up a B580 before pricing went stupid because even though Intel is rumored to be announcing the B770 like at CES or sometime very soon.

[2:34:25] Um what I suspect is that they will build in the RAM shortage pricing to that new one and they may even make adjustments to the B570 and the B580. I don't know any of this for sure, which is why I'm able to speculate on it

[2:34:40] without, you know, breaching any kind of non-disclosure agreement. Um but I strongly suspect that if you don't pick up this Onyx Lumi Arc B580 with 12 gigs

[2:34:52] up this Onyx Lumi Arc B580 with 12 gigs of GDDR6 for $239.99 of GDDR6 for $239.99 now with the Intel holiday bundle, which is I remind you Battlefield 6.

[2:35:06] Pick one of Battlefield 6, Assassin's Creed Shadows, Dying Light The Beast, or Sid Meier's Civilization VII. You get this card with this amount of RAM for 240 US dollars and you get a full price AAA

[2:35:21] game. You will not be finding a better deal really don't think so. It's possible. It's possible,

[2:35:35] but I I really sincerely doubt it. So, now is a really good time to pick up one of these and and get a get a decent GPU for a decent price. I mean, what even is for a decent price. I mean, what even is 12 gigs of RAM worth right now?

[2:35:49] Okay, so let's go with like a somewhat equivalent, you know, what's 16 gigs of DDR5? So, around $200 right now for 16 gigs of RAM. So, you're getting 12 gigs of RAM, which let's call $150,

[2:36:05] right? You're getting Battlefield for which is let's call 50 bucks. So, $200, you're basically paying $40 for an Arc B580 GPU.

[2:36:17] Crazy. Crazy. There's no way that Intel can be making money on that die and those VRMs and that cooler at that point. Like I

[2:36:29] just just do it. Someone says that was 2 by 16. Yes, and I did real I really amazing thing where I took the price and I cut it in half to I took the price and I cut it in half to represent 16 gigs of RAM to be $200-ish.

[2:36:43] It was cool. You did math? On purpose? I know, right? know, right? Hi Vinus Booken Ban. I'm working on ownership of an Amazon DSP and need advice on balancing employee care with

[2:36:58] managing razor thin margins in the early stages of the company. Hello from Vegas. Ah, it's hard, man. I don't think we've I don't think we've ever found the right balance and I think even if we found the

[2:37:13] right balance, there would be people who don't agree. We're finally doing it. We're finally working on how does LMG spend money? Uh which people have asked for every single time we've done how does LMG make money? And what I

[2:37:28] can tell you is that when we get down into the the details of, you know, yeah, like how much of it goes to taxes, how much of it goes to, you know, uh net

[2:37:41] profit for reinvestment for next year or for shareholder dividends. Um When when we get into when we get into these details, I guarantee you that even

[2:37:53] though we are well under what many of the companies you don't hate take for profit, uh there will be people who are mad about it. know, say, "Well, you should have done more." There's people that would look at

[2:38:06] your question of, you know, how do I balance employee care with managing razor thin margins and say, "Well, you know, you're you're the owner. You should It should be 100% employee care." And then there's going to be other

[2:38:19] people that you ask on the more business monster side that are going to say, you know, uh none of that matters. Outsource to outsource to cheaper labor and get your margins up right away or I I don't know, right? Like it's it's just like

[2:38:33] the conversation we had earlier people are not going to agree on this. Everyone's going to have a completely different line.

[2:38:47] thing I was going to say. I was going to say that an important part of it though is communication with your team. Laying out very clearly, you know, what the reward is and what it can be and then following

[2:39:01] through on that if you're asking people to make any kind of personal sacrifice. Sure thing. For Linus, do you feel like you will ever find a phone that you will be happy with? It seems like with each phone you

[2:39:14] find nitpicks or issues. Do you think having too many uh so many opportunities having too many uh so many opportunities to upgrade affects, I assume, this? Um no, if anything, I mean, I I I think I probably upgrade my phone less than

[2:39:27] almost any other electronics YouTuber who covers phones. I I try not to. I really don't like it. I mean, I I used the Note 9 for like 4 years or I used the Note 9 for like 4 years or something like that, 3 years. Um

[2:39:41] Will I find one that I'm happy with? I mean, as long as designs continue to fight, no, I don't think so because a lot of the direction of the mobile phone industry just runs counter to what I like and want out of my devices.

[2:39:58] I'm pretty happy with this one, but like I'm not going to lie and say that it didn't immediately stop folding completely flat, like literally the second day I had it. Um unless I you know, give it the old

[2:40:12] you know, over fold. Why? Why is that? Like why is that acceptable? Why is that normal? Um

[2:40:24] else like yeah, some of the some of the stuff that I encountered on the iPhone was just like it's just baffling to me that it's that it's not that it's not, you know, fixed. Um

[2:40:40] actually was dailying an iPhone Air and then an iPhone 17 and then I dabbled with the iPhone um 17 Pro Max over the last almost almost 2 months, I think. This is the longest I've been iPhone in a while and

[2:40:54] good, really good. And then there were also things that were just like also things that were just like infuriating. Um

[2:41:11] I think if anything, it comes down to that it's my job to find things that are really good and find things that are not as good and I also tend to be a pretty busy person. So I think I have a higher sensitivity to unnecessary interactions

[2:41:28] and um unintuitive design than most people would because it's my job to in to get intimately familiar with a device really really quickly and especially when it doesn't follow that same company's

[2:41:44] that same company's established rules for interaction, it kind of drives me nuts because I do understand that a lot of products these days are just sort of designed by committee and and there are these these

[2:41:56] huge teams that often times will like barely even talk to each other, but you stop driving me crazy that, you know, you could have a flagship Android phone that for years didn't support a feature on YouTube, which is owned by Google,

[2:42:12] which, you know, Android is also, you know, managed by Google. Um In this case it was YouTube Stories that just simply wasn't supported on it. It's like, guys, this is a software switch that you can just flip. Just enable

[2:42:24] stories on on tablets or stop classifying this phone as a tablet. Do one of those two things and let this let maintaining Why are you even maintaining two different versions of the app?

[2:42:37] two different versions of the app? Um now. Um I'm actually finally, yes, finally doing it.

[2:42:50] It's either going to be ShortCircuit or it's going to be LTT, but I'm trying a Garmin smartwatch. Uh so Pebble, I shot the ShortCircuit last week and then Bell's been chasing me to do this Garmin one for quite a

[2:43:03] while. Hey Dan and the other two. My question is how to reignite the passion for games? It's hard to find the childlike again. I wonder if you have any tips to break the monotony. Hi from Kamloops.

[2:43:18] Like so many things, it's all about people. It's all about relationships. Humans are we're super complicated, but we're also kind of simple, right? Like we're also kind of simple, right? Like we love novelty. So if your hope was

[2:43:30] that you're going to recreate that um that experience that you'd never had before again, it's it's not going to work like that. So if what you loved about games was was novelty,

[2:43:42] recreate, but there's other levers you can pull. There's nostalgia. I had an absolute blast. I put dozens and dozens of hours into this roguelite haven't been playing it as much lately. I should probably check in and see how

[2:43:57] Canadian. It's their first game. Um seemed really passionate and it Um seemed really passionate and it reminded me of playing like NHLPA '93, uh but, you know, fun and modern and with kind of a new

[2:44:12] with a new twist on it. Um so, you know, nostalgia can be a really good one. Uh another great example of that is how many incredible like um

[2:44:24] pixel art like 16-bit pixel art games there are that sort of emulate the style of classics like Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger. Um a couple that sort of stood out to me, Sea of Stars. Seems like they were

[2:44:36] really passionate team. I quite enjoyed the game. I didn't think it was quite as people kind of made it out to be. It was a little shallow in terms of the gameplay and I I won't say much about the story, but I will say that there

[2:44:49] were just aspects of it that um you know, whatever, but the music is know, whatever, but the music is incredible. The art is beautiful. Um it was absolutely worth a playthrough if you enjoy

[2:45:01] uh if you enjoy that that art style, if you enjoy um that era of gaming. Another really good one. This one I cannot recommend enough. What a beautiful game. So incredibly well written uh CrossCode. Um

[2:45:17] Radical Fish, I think, is coming out with their next game like soonish. Uh but in the meantime, you should definitely pick this up. It is just an outstanding outstanding game. Uh and then what's what's the last one that I

[2:45:30] that I really really enjoyed? Um 16-bit pixel games. Bit bit bit bit bit Oh man. Uh I'm trying to remember what it was.

[2:45:46] played a little while ago where the the writing got kind of silly after a bit. Um but in like a in like an anime way that a lot of people will probably like.

[2:45:58] Uh I can't remember. Well, I will I'll have to I'll have to it's like turn-based combat, world exploration.

[2:46:15] Anyway, yeah, so so yeah, so nostalgia can be can be a really good way to kind of reignite the the passion, finding something that is both new and and has Uh another really big one

[2:46:28] would be just people. Uh a huge part of what I enjoyed so much about playing Tape to Tape was socializing. So using it as a way to part of your life now or whether they're people that used be part of your life.

[2:46:41] gaming Chained Echoes, that's the one. Thanks, Crater. Chained Echoes also also really cool. Uh definitely enjoyed the combat of Uh definitely enjoyed the combat of Chained Echoes a little bit more than um

[2:46:54] than Sea of Stars. I played them both like back-to-back around the same time. this so cheap? Chained Echoes is $10 right now. So >> Winter sale. Heck yeah. Steam being mean to everyone's wallets.

[2:47:10] Yeah, dude, it's so good. Yeah, it's really good. Anyway, people. That that'll probably help get you get you back into it. Playing games with my kids is lots of fun. Although now that

[2:47:23] my son is so much better than me and my girls still aren't good enough to like compete, it's hard to play like competitive games with them, but it's still it's still great to just enjoy, you know, stories.

[2:47:37] Um also also with the wife. We we played Unravel Two recently and we played uh It Unravel Two recently and we played uh It Takes Two a little while back. People.

[2:47:49] screwdrivers. Great for gifting. What is one of your tech pet peeves? Workers smashing their mobile pay kiosks into my phone for tap to pay is mine. Cheers.

[2:48:02] Oh man, a tech pet peeve. I would say the biggest one for me in my daily life has got to be password autofill that just like doesn't work. Um that doesn't detect the right app or

[2:48:15] the right website. Like it It feels like it it works every time 75% of the time and when it works, dude, password autofill and passkeys Oh man, passkeys. show. Passkeys

[2:48:30] are such a failed promise, man. Like in theory, they were supposed to make it so that I didn't have to do like passwords and two factor because I I I I passwords and two factor because I I I I I I I the whole thing was supposed to be

[2:48:43] this thing that is on me that I have already authenticated. I'm using and it this is my one factor, my thing I have and then um the thing that I am is supposed to be the biometric authentication. That was

[2:48:57] just automatically log into everything. In practice, I went to log into something that used a passkey before the before the show started and what is it? So I have to enter I had to enter my password that I've memorized because it

[2:49:11] is my like single sign-on one. So I had to enter my password and then in order to enter my password and then in order to authenticate that, I had to um unlock my phone to I said to click scan QR code. I'm

[2:49:24] unlock my phone, then I had to click it, then I had to say what I was logging into, then I had to biometrically authenticate again, then I had to click yes and then it was like seven steps later. I might as well have just typed

[2:49:37] point. It's ridiculous. Um mine. And the last one I have today, question for Linus from a fellow motorcyclist. Have you ridden the Suzuki GSX 8S,

[2:49:54] spiritual successor to your SV650? Love seeing a live LAN show. Merry >> Hey, thanks. Merry Christmas to you too, Scotland. No, I haven't. This thing

[2:50:06] sick though. Like damn, this thing looks awesome. Like damn, this thing looks awesome. Um

[2:50:19] so many cool bikes. I wish I was allowed to get a motorcycle. My mommy says no. Um yeah. Wow, this looks awesome. No, this had completely

[2:50:32] this had completely flown under my radar. Is that Oh, here we go. Uh oh, okay. Is it a V-twin or is it an

[2:50:45] inline? Does anyone know? Uh well, I'll wait for I'll wait for someone to respond in chat, but no, that thing looks sick. I haven't been on my I haven't been on

[2:51:00] my SV and we're coming up on like 3 years, but the paint job is done. paint job. Um I don't think that my base color layer adhered properly to my primer layer on some of the parts and I think

[2:51:16] it's basically just going to like crack off after a season or two, which is uh off after a season or two, which is uh deeply disheartening. I you know, I tried. I tried to do my I tried to to learn the

[2:51:32] the air sprayer and I I tried to learn all the coatings and I tried to have the right conditions and everything, but I think I just got caught one day when maybe I didn't get the temperature right or maybe I didn't get the mix right and

[2:51:45] it just it just didn't adhere. Uh so some of the parts are fine to the point where they're like so hard to strip that I like destroyed a part once trying to because I screwed up the uh the effect

[2:51:59] And then others are just like, oh my god, these are just going to these are probably only going to get a couple of seasons out of it. It was a fun learning experience and then I think next time around I've actually got

[2:52:12] and also runs a paint shop. I'm just going to be like, hey Danny, this time can I just come into your shop and do like a couple hour session with you and maybe use your shop and maybe here's a few bucks or some free time at

[2:52:27] Smash Champs or something and let's work out a tit for tat and I'll maybe I'll just, you know, do something else. Let Danny do it. No, do something else. Let Danny do it. No, that's no fun.

[2:52:40] want to ride around on a bike that I painted. So maybe next time around it'll anyway? Oh, I never I never check chat. Is it a V-twin or is it an inline? Someone in Twitch chat said parallel

[2:52:53] twin. I don't know if they're lying to you. Uh do do do do do do do do do do do do. MSRP starting from {question mark}. What MSRP starting from {question mark}. What the devil does that mean?

[2:53:07] blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. You might have to build one out. might have to build one out. >> But you didn't give me one. Oh Oh, okay. Hold on. Hold on. Location, British Columbia. Dude, man, bikes are

[2:53:21] Oh, man. The hell? That's like new? Yeah, $11,000 to be clear is a lot of money. I guess you only get two wheels. >> But that's Canadian dollars. So this is like this is like eight eight grand or something like that. And like, man,

[2:53:34] compared to compared to four-wheel vehicles, you can you can buy so much you can buy so much fun on a bike compared to a four-wheel vehicle for the price. Like good lord.

[2:53:48] Dude. Oh wow, that's a Oh, that's a big engine. I didn't clue in that the eight was 800 uh ccs. Woo. That's more That's 200 more than a cappuccino. 776

[2:54:03] cappuccino. 776 ccs. me to be like the the the the the game dev guy who died recently? Cuz I 650 was already freaking a lot for me. Man, it's got ride by wire,

[2:54:18] ABS, low RPM assist. Interesting. For smoother and easier starts. Okay, that I don't know if I need as much, but sure. don't know if I need as much, but sure. Damn, this thing looks so cool.

[2:54:37] All right, I'm going to I'm going to um you know, not buy it though. Maybe. you know, not buy it though. Maybe. GSX 8 This thing looks sick. Uh okay.

[2:54:52] Oh well, okay. Well, hey, one last one last shout-out, guys. Now is a great time to head over to LTT store. Our Prism magic screwdrivers for a very limited time, only until December 30th. Don't wait

[2:55:06] around. Very limited time, are 20% off thanks to our partnership with YouTube shopping. So all you got to do is go watch the video, which I'm going to publish right now. So right now, I think it's unlisted.

[2:55:19] it, you can. Uh yeah, no, go ahead. Punch it, Dan. So this video is going to go live right now. Go watch it. It's a really fun video. It's every LTT store

[2:55:31] product that I couldn't release for some reason or another. It should be live. If didn't Cool. send the wrong one live. So we sat >> There you go. Oh my god, that's

[2:55:44] >> 1 second. There we go. So we sat down with both the engineering team to talk about some of the really wild products that never saw the light of day, as well some of the really cool products that

[2:55:58] never saw the light of day and the various reasons that they didn't. Uh I don't want to spoil too much, but the reason that we never made uh this wallet, hold on. Let me see if I can find it.

[2:56:11] Uh okay, I can't find it, but there's a okay, I can't find it, but there's a wallet that we never made and um Yeah, here they here they are. And the way we got access to these

[2:56:23] original prototypes will absolutely blow your mind. Uh the Oh, oh shoot, I missed it. The idea behind them though was that they idea behind them though was that they looked like folders. Um

[2:56:41] And I think that's it for the LAN show. We'll see you again next week, same bad We'll see you again next week, same bad time, same bad channel.

[2:57:00] What? That No, that's the opposite of what you're supposed to do. Bye. Uh there. All right, see you later.