House of the Dragon Season 3 Episode 2 REVIEW - Did it work?

[00:30] Let's rewind. Rewind.

[00:37] >> Welcome back to Screen Crush Rewind. I'm

[00:39] your host, Ryan Ary, and today we are

[00:40] talking about House of the Dragons

[00:42] season 3, episode 2. Did we like it? Did

[00:44] we hate it? Was it mediocre? Do we want

[00:45] more fights? We're going to get to the

[00:47] bottom of all that today. And as always

[00:49] guys, keep your comments coming. We got

[00:50] a great one already I can't wait to

[00:52] address from Sen Sim Vanderbrink which

[00:54] brings up a good point. And super chats

[00:56] are always encouraged but not required.

[00:58] I want to quickly say that here on

[01:00] Screen Crush Rewind. We have a massive

[01:01] week coming up. We got to talk about

[01:05] Supergirl. We almost talked about that

[01:06] today, but we we're going to talk about

[01:08] Supergirl tomorrow. We are going to be

[01:10] talking about uh some big Marvel news

[01:12] that has dropped throughout the week on

[01:14] Wednesday and then probably more Marvel

[01:16] news after that. It seems like

[01:17] everything is happening in July. So, I

[01:19] cannot wait to talk to you guys about

[01:20] this and talk to our rotating panel of

[01:22] guests who I should start bringing on

[01:24] right now. First of all, I'm so happy to

[01:26] have her on. Uh the person who wrote our

[01:29] House of the Dragon breakdowns,

[01:30] including our exceptional breakdown we

[01:33] posted last night, Miss Harriet

[01:34] Lingalan, right? What's going on,

[01:35] Harriet?

[01:36] >> Hey, I'm so excited to talk about this

[01:38] episode.

[01:40] >> I Yeah, me too. I don't want to spoil if

[01:43] I'm excited because I hated it or loved

[01:44] it. We'll have to save that for later,

[01:46] but um I'm excited to get everybody else

[01:48] on. And of course, we have friend of the

[01:50] channel, co-host of the Comic Book Club

[01:51] podcast, the guy who's always on hold,

[01:54] Mr. Alex Galvin. What's going on, Alex?

[01:56] >> Uh yeah, sorry. I'm on with auto High

[01:58] Towers people, and it's just it keeps

[02:01] going. Uh I don't know. I've been on

[02:03] hold for a really long time. They keep

[02:04] being like, "Hey, hang on. Don't lose

[02:06] your head." I don't know what that

[02:08] means, but I'm just going to I'll put

[02:09] the phone down for now. I'll put the

[02:11] phone down. And that's a good time to

[02:12] acknowledge spoiler warning for all

[02:14] things House of the Dragon season 3. Oh

[02:18] gosh, they're going to come get me in

[02:20] the comments. And finally, uh, former

[02:22] congressional candidate and intern we

[02:24] fire at the end of every video, Mr.

[02:26] Cameron Casy. What's going on, Cam?

[02:29] >> I'm just excited to talk about this. I'm

[02:31] I happen to be more excited to talk

[02:33] about this one than I was about last

[02:34] week's.

[02:36] >> Yeah, I am, too. And I wanted to

[02:38] specifically bring you guys on. I know

[02:39] not everybody watching this watched our

[02:41] video last week because you guys had

[02:43] legit complaints about the first episode

[02:45] last week and Cameron, you reshaped my

[02:48] brain when you I didn't realize this

[02:50] that they originally intended to end

[02:52] season 2 at the battle of the goollet,

[02:53] but because of strikes and other

[02:55] Hollywood things, they had to put it

[02:57] here. And I do think the first episode

[02:58] would have been a much better capper to

[03:01] that season. You know, usually in Game

[03:03] of Thrones, we're used to the

[03:04] penultimate episode having a big fight

[03:06] or a big event, death of Ned Stark, and

[03:09] the following episode being Fallout. And

[03:11] I kind of feel like the first two

[03:12] episodes of this season feel like they

[03:15] should have been at the end of season

[03:17] two. Um, but I'm just I want to start

[03:19] off by just hearing what you guys

[03:21] thought. And again, let us know in the

[03:22] comments. Um, let's just go around the

[03:24] table. Harriet, go right ahead. What you

[03:26] think?

[03:28] Um, I mean, I think this is one of my

[03:29] favorite episodes of the show, uh,

[03:31] period. I think, uh, it's just

[03:34] fantastic. There's like almost nothing

[03:36] about it that I would change. Um, I

[03:38] think it's honestly I like where it is

[03:40] in the season because I think having

[03:42] this happen in episode two of a season

[03:45] really leads us up to like, especially

[03:47] for people who have not read the book of

[03:49] like where is it going to go from here,

[03:54] >> Alex? Uh, sure. Couldn't agree more.

[03:57] This was thrilling. I mean, I'd go

[03:59] farther to say like this is one of the

[04:01] best episodes in the Game of Thrones

[04:03] franchise, particularly like it sets up

[04:05] all the pieces so neatly in the first

[04:07] half hour and then everything in the

[04:10] second half hour. I mean, I admitted the

[04:12] last time I haven't read Fire and Blood

[04:13] specifically, but not knowing where it

[04:15] was going, watching everything that is

[04:17] going on, I was like, "This is going to

[04:18] go wrong. This is going to go wrong at

[04:19] any second. This cannot be happening.

[04:21] They cannot just be one does not simply

[04:23] walk into Kim King's Landing like that

[04:26] and then it happens and obviously it

[04:29] does horrific things happen right at the

[04:32] end of the episode but the horrific

[04:34] emotional things and I think that's what

[04:36] worked so well about this episode for me

[04:38] versus the previous episode is we had

[04:40] the bombass but not necessarily for me

[04:42] as a viewer the emotional stakes here it

[04:46] wasn't that this was a quiet episode

[04:48] necessarily but the things that were

[04:50] happening

[04:51] were so based in the emotion of the

[04:53] characters and the actors particularly

[04:55] Emma Darcy which this is like

[04:58] >> em me Emmy all over it like this

[05:00] clinched the Emmy this episode from the

[05:02] first scene to the last scene just

[05:05] absolutely incredible work I was

[05:07] goosebumped all over the entire time.

[05:10] >> Yeah and Harriet after Cameron talks I

[05:12] do you had some great points in the

[05:13] Easter egg video about her act and I

[05:15] can't wait for you to tell everybody.

[05:16] But Cam, what did you think of the

[05:17] episode? Um, I mean it's like it was

[05:20] just such a phenomenal finale to season

[05:22] two. Um,

[05:25] moment when Emma, who again is just such

[05:28] an extraordinary performer. Uh, when

[05:30] Emma

[05:31] >> just looks forward at at what Reineer

[05:33] has done in we we're past spoiled

[05:36] territory right?

[05:38] >> Yeah. I would

[05:40] >> spoilers every

[05:44] I spoiled it in my intro. Rea's

[05:46] Reineer's look at the end of the episode

[05:48] sitting on the iron throne and just that

[05:50] look of at what cost where Raine is

[05:55] finally getting what Reineer has wanted

[05:57] for so long and immediately starts

[05:59] questioning but was it worth all of

[06:01] this. It was just so good and you know

[06:04] >> I'm not the biggest fan of House of the

[06:06] Dragon. I have so many issues with it

[06:08] but it's just hard to deny that this

[06:10] episode was just pretty riveting top to

[06:12] bottom. I mean you know my what with

[06:15] last week we had so much of the episode

[06:18] going to these scenes that existed to

[06:21] contextualize the season because it's

[06:23] been two years since we've watched it

[06:25] and I think a lot of the scenes in the

[06:27] first last episode

[06:28] >> were just were just such a drag and not

[06:31] memorable and in my opinion a little

[06:34] annoying

[06:35] >> this whole episode I mean every minute

[06:37] every character is just chewing up the

[06:39] screen um Egon's scene especially was

[06:42] just a testament to what a performance

[06:44] performance Tom Glen Carney is giving

[06:46] and how he's doing so much with so

[06:49] little. Like Egon does not have that

[06:52] much screen time for a character so

[06:54] memorable. Um but a

[06:56] >> and in House of the Dragons and Fire and

[06:58] Blood not that you know he's not like a

[07:01] you know central you you don't see him

[07:03] for a long time. That's all I'll say.

[07:05] >> Yeah. So so there's obviously a lot of

[07:07] differences. I I I've said this before,

[07:09] like I don't really care when there are

[07:11] differences from source material as long

[07:13] as those consolidations are being made

[07:15] to improve the story or if they're

[07:17] necessary consolidations. Some battles

[07:19] are going to need to happen offscreen.

[07:21] That's just a thing. Uh interesting

[07:22] tidbit in Fire and Blood, Gwane High

[07:25] Totower,

[07:26] >> the character that we see hanging out

[07:27] with Kristen Cole, waxing poetically a

[07:29] lot, he was actually killed when Reineer

[07:31] took King's Landing. who was in King's

[07:33] Landing and was stabbed after calling

[07:35] one of the Goldcakes a traitor. Um, but

[07:38] they moved the character over to give

[07:40] someone to for Kristen Cole to talk to.

[07:42] Uh, I thought it was great. I really

[07:44] thought Emma Darcy's performance was

[07:46] just extraordinary and I'm excited for

[07:50] the first episode of season 3.

[07:53] Uh Harry, just I want to circle back to

[07:55] touch on the acting choices she made. Uh

[07:58] Emma Darcy and the u the final scene

[08:02] there that you addressed in her Easter

[08:03] egg video.

[08:05] Yeah, I mean I think um

[08:09] I I think this performance from Emma

[08:12] Darcy I think like it it's a incredible

[08:15] incredible performance and seeing that

[08:17] those last few minutes. I mean plus the

[08:19] opening scene with them with um Jayce's

[08:23] death is incredible. Um like I was

[08:25] watching it

[08:26] >> last night um with some friends and

[08:29] everyone was silent during that scene

[08:31] because it was so like heart-wrenching.

[08:33] But that final moment

[08:34] >> when she's yelling at his corpse, what

[08:36] have you done? And you think she's

[08:37] yelling at the people in the room. Yeah,

[08:39] it's incredible.

[08:40] >> Um but that those final moments um the

[08:44] way Reneer finally hardens to like

[08:49] taking this violent action. I mean, I've

[08:51] seen a lot of complaints that um like

[08:54] why is Rene still reluctant to kill?

[08:58] Like why is some you know Otto deserved

[09:01] it? Like etc., etc. And I don't think

[09:04] any of that is untrue. Like I don't

[09:05] think she felt morally like uh that he

[09:09] didn't deserve to die. It's just that uh

[09:12] there's a difference between deciding

[09:14] that someone needs to die and actually

[09:16] killing them

[09:17] >> and giving them a trial.

[09:19] >> Well, I also think just

[09:21] >> Oh, wait. Hold on. Hold on. Harry,

[09:22] finish your point. Finish your point.

[09:23] This is the first time what?

[09:25] >> Uh this is the first time she's uh the

[09:28] character has killed anyone. And I think

[09:29] that it's it's I I wouldn't expect that

[09:32] to have gone any differently. So,

[09:34] >> and I want to flag real quick. I uh use

[09:36] the wrong pronouns just now when I was

[09:38] talking about Amadar. So, they use they

[09:39] them pronouns. That's my fault because

[09:40] she is a female character and I always

[09:43] think of her in or think of them in that

[09:44] way. Go ahead, Cam. What were you going

[09:45] to say?

[09:46] >> I was just going to say adding on to

[09:47] that point. Um, I also feel like on an

[09:50] emotional level, no matter what he did,

[09:54] uh, as part of, you know, the UN Rea

[09:57] getting usurped, as part of the whole

[09:59] Green, um, conspiracy, I do think

[10:02] there's a degree to which Otto probably

[10:04] still reminds Reier a little bit of her

[10:07] father. And I do think, you know, when

[10:10] all said and done, even though she sees

[10:11] Otto as someone who ultimately exploited

[10:14] and manipulated um Viseris, I do think

[10:18] that she was thinking of her father in

[10:19] that moment. And she was thinking of how

[10:22] >> even even with everything that happened,

[10:24] Viseris did see Otto as a very steady

[10:27] and reliable and supportive not only

[10:29] hand, but friend to him. And I feel like

[10:31] that was part of the psychology of that

[10:33] scene.

[10:34] >> Let me ask you guys this about Otto. So,

[10:36] I I was going to save the ending stuff

[10:37] for later, but let's talk about um let's

[10:39] talk about the ending now. Then I want

[10:40] to go back and talk about each character

[10:42] and specifically the battle of the

[10:43] gullet and address some of the

[10:44] complaints we had last last week. So,

[10:46] with auto high tower, you I've pointed

[10:48] out in breakdowns in the past and Harry

[10:50] you have in your breakdowns. This is a

[10:51] guy who is from the family that

[10:54] traditionally had power in Westeros, the

[10:57] high towers, old town that was the seed

[11:00] of power of knowledge. And then when

[11:01] Aegon landed and conquered the seven

[11:04] kingdoms or nine kingdoms depending on

[11:05] who you're talking to um or actually six

[11:08] kingdoms because he didn't conquer

[11:09] Dorne, whatever. When he did that, he

[11:11] shifted power away from Oldtown and away

[11:13] from the High Towers. And Otto High

[11:14] Tower is the second son who was set to

[11:17] not inherit land or title. So he

[11:20] definitely is trying to put his

[11:22] grandson. He pushed his granddaughter

[11:24] toward Viserus in order to, you know,

[11:27] put his family line on the throne and

[11:29] maybe even motivated in a way to

[11:31] outshine his older brother. However, do

[11:33] you think there's more to him than that?

[11:35] Like, do you genuinely think that he

[11:37] believed a woman for a queen would

[11:40] thrust the realm into war? Did he always

[11:42] think that he was doing the right thing,

[11:43] not just for his family, but for the

[11:45] kingdom?

[11:49] Um, here you go. I mean, I I I can speak

[11:52] to this. I uh I genuinely do believe

[11:55] that Otto

[11:57] believed to some degree that Reneer

[11:59] being crowned queen would plunge the

[12:01] realm into war. And I don't even

[12:03] necessarily think that he is wrong

[12:06] entirely about that. I think it could

[12:08] have been different. It could have gone

[12:09] differently if everyone on that small

[12:13] council had actually supported her as

[12:16] opposed to constantly undermining and

[12:18] plotting to user her.

[12:20] >> But I do think there were always going

[12:22] to be people who uh Westeros is a very

[12:25] patriarchal society and changing that is

[12:28] always going to create conflict. Um on

[12:31] the on the other hand though Otto

[12:33] definitely also wanted his grandson to

[12:35] be the king. So, it's not like it was

[12:38] 100% selfless. Um, I think there's

[12:41] there's a bit of both. He's a

[12:42] complicated character and an another

[12:45] excellent performance. I'll I'll miss

[12:47] I'll miss seeing that character.

[12:51] >> Just to hop on that real quick. Um, I

[12:53] think that two two things. Number one,

[12:56] if there's one thing George R. Martin

[12:58] loves in Ice and Fire, it's

[13:00] self-fulfilling prophecies. You see this

[13:02] with Cersei's prophecy. You see this

[13:04] with what's how some people interpret

[13:06] the prince who was promised. George

[13:09] loves making prophecies and allowing

[13:11] them to fulfill themselves. And I think

[13:13] one of those is a woman cannot be the

[13:16] queen of Westeros. I think there's this

[13:17] idea that the civil war happened because

[13:21] everybody was telling each other that a

[13:23] woman could not rule Westeros. And it's

[13:26] like, okay, yeah, well that's true if

[13:28] you say it. Like if you all choose to

[13:30] not let a woman rule Westeros, but if

[13:32] all of you had come together and

[13:33] accepted that radio would be the queen,

[13:36] >> it would have gone fine. It was all of

[13:37] you manufacturing this issue. And not to

[13:41] get too political, but I feel like

[13:43] that's the case with certain women and

[13:45] marginalized groups in politics, too.

[13:47] People will say, "Oh, a woman can never

[13:48] be president. Oh, a person of this

[13:51] specific race or background can't be

[13:53] president." It's like, yeah, well, if

[13:54] you keep saying that over and over

[13:56] again, it's true. But what if you just

[13:58] said maybe a woman can be president, you

[14:01] know? So, I think that there's a lot of

[14:03] self-fulfilling prophecy stuff there.

[14:04] With Auto High Tower, there's this very

[14:06] common character in Ice and Fire, which

[14:09] is like the scheming second son or the

[14:11] scheming person who came from a sort of

[14:15] humble background like Littlefinger for

[14:17] example. Littlefinger inherited like a

[14:19] small little tower with a couple of

[14:21] rooms somewhere off in the veil nobody

[14:24] cares about. and he schemes his way up

[14:26] to the top and uses power in this very

[14:28] specific way. And in old George R.

[14:30] Martin blog posts, he talked about how

[14:32] traumatized he was by JFK's death. He

[14:34] was from a family that really the

[14:37] Kennedes, John F. Kennedy was like a

[14:39] political hero of his. And if you think

[14:41] of George R. Martin where one of the

[14:43] fundamental traumas of his young life

[14:45] was seeing Kennedy get assassinated.

[14:48] Then you think of Jace

[14:49] >> who would have been a promising king, a

[14:51] young guy, a handsome guy really liked.

[14:53] You think of Bor Brickspear in 1978,

[14:57] >> this young guy who was about to be the

[14:59] king that might have just changed

[15:00] everything for the better, but died too

[15:02] soon, too tragically. You think of Rob.

[15:04] Poor and poor Joffrey who was cut down

[15:07] way too short. Yeah.

[15:09] >> Rob Stark, Baylor Bra, a lot of the

[15:12] Targaryen sons, if you're reading Fire

[15:14] and Blood, generally speaking, if it

[15:16] seems like one of them is going to be

[15:18] good, that means they are going to

[15:20] suffer a

[15:20] >> Rhaegar.

[15:22] So, well, depending on your

[15:24] interpretation of Rhaegar, you know,

[15:25] that's so,

[15:26] >> oh, no, no, I forgot who I was talking

[15:28] to. Never mind going down that road.

[15:31] >> Auto high tower a little bit as Lynen B.

[15:33] Johnson. I think of him as somebody

[15:34] >> Oh, that's a that's a great analogy.

[15:38] That's fantastic.

[15:39] >> You know what I'm saying? I think Yeah,

[15:41] I think George thinks a lot about that

[15:42] stuff. I think he thinks a lot about

[15:44] >> because Lyndon Johnson was somebody who

[15:45] Oh, god, you've said it now. Lyndon

[15:47] Johnson was somebody who, you know,

[15:49] wanted the presidency his entire career.

[15:50] He knew everyone in the Senate. He knew

[15:52] he could make things happen. He had a

[15:53] New Deal like list of priorities. And

[15:56] he's kind of like Otto High Totower, the

[15:57] most experienced guy who wouldn't have

[15:59] been anybody's first choice.

[16:01] And that is my

[16:02] >> I love that.

[16:05] >> Um, that is a great point and I'm a big

[16:07] fan of that. We just had a comment. Let

[16:09] me find it real quick to make sure I get

[16:10] the wording right.

[16:12] Even in the King's Guard, misogyny runs

[16:15] rampant from uh, Greeky told us that.

[16:19] That is such a good point. Was it

[16:20] Duskondale? He was the knight who um,

[16:23] maybe ancestor, distant relative Duncan

[16:25] of Duskondale who locked her in her

[16:28] room. And even Jayce said to her in the

[16:30] previous episode, "Well, it's your life

[16:31] for hers because you're going to keep

[16:32] her safe by disobeying her." Not to keep

[16:35] bringing this up, but would they have

[16:37] ever locked a king in a room like that

[16:39] who was of age? You know, absolutely

[16:41] not. So, I thought that was an

[16:43] interesting point, too. Thank you for

[16:44] the comment.

[16:44] >> And before the comments got to us, it's

[16:46] uh Sir Laurent Marbrand was that that um

[16:49] >> Oh, thank you so much. What What did

[16:51] Justin do? Was he uh the one who was

[16:54] with the greens in the

[16:55] >> sir Stefan Darklin was last season um

[16:59] was uh the ancestral seed of Duskandale

[17:02] but um I forget in what way Dusk and Oh,

[17:05] it's because Aegon and Laris were

[17:07] talking about going there that we

[17:08] brought up Dusk and Dale.

[17:09] >> Got it. That's right. Thank you so much.

[17:10] I was wrong about that. By the way, I

[17:12] just wanted to mention just before we

[17:13] get away from the Barb Brown thing and

[17:15] to touch on some of the other things, I

[17:16] thought it was very interesting watching

[17:18] the episode a second time knowing that

[17:21] Rea is having trouble chopping it off

[17:24] Otto High Tower's head to see how she

[17:26] reacts to Marbrand who gets down as like

[17:29] chop off my head and she's immediately

[17:32] kind of coming up with excuses and

[17:33] reasons not to do that. And then when

[17:36] she's walking out, she's like, "Have him

[17:38] choose how he wants to die." She's

[17:39] outsourcing it

[17:40] >> to him and then ultimately is

[17:42] confronted. I I really read into it

[17:45] >> since we have never seen her kill

[17:47] anything except for a wild boar on this

[17:49] show that it was like you were saying,

[17:51] Harriet, killing that father figure, but

[17:53] also just like the act of killing, like

[17:55] oneon-one killing is something she has

[17:57] never done. And now she is going to have

[18:00] to make those decisions all the time,

[18:04] every single day. she's been able to put

[18:06] off as this far away thing of yes, I

[18:09] want to be queen, but it's over there

[18:11] and now it's right here and it comes

[18:13] through. Now I'm getting like I'm just

[18:15] sort of meandering, but I just wanted to

[18:17] mention since we haven't mentioned, I

[18:18] thought the direction and writing on

[18:20] this episode as well was phenomenal. And

[18:23] particularly just those shots that are

[18:27] sabotistically so obvious but also so

[18:29] beautiful of Rea walking from the puddle

[18:32] of blood leaving her bloody footprints

[18:34] leading up to the throne finally. Yes.

[18:37] Seeing her sit on the throne and the

[18:39] reflection of the blood like

[18:40] >> chef's kiss. Beautifully beautifully

[18:42] done. And I think her Emma Darcy's uh

[18:45] their performance would not have worked

[18:46] the same way without having a director

[18:49] so good in the chair making sure that

[18:52] that all came through.

[18:54] >> I want to throw this out there too. I in

[18:55] our breakdown. Sorry Harriet. Uh we we

[18:58] didn't really draw parallels between

[18:59] that bore episode, but it would be

[19:00] interesting to go back and watch that

[19:02] because that was the episode where Otto

[19:05] really started pushing for Viserus to

[19:07] name Aegon the heir and where Rene first

[19:10] shows. You know, she for one thing goes

[19:12] off on a jaunt with Kristen Cole that

[19:15] leads basically lays the groundwork for

[19:17] all of this, but it's also where she

[19:18] demonstrates like, "Yeah, I'm a gentle

[19:20] person, but [ __ ] push me and

[19:22] see what happens because she really

[19:24] takes that boar out and walks into camp

[19:25] with it when the men couldn't find the

[19:28] vaunted white stag. The woman out by

[19:29] herself killed a boar." It might be

[19:31] interesting to see how that episode is

[19:32] microcosm of the war that followed.

[19:34] Sorry, Harry. Go ahead. Actually, my

[19:37] point was related in that um I saw

[19:39] people drawing comparisons which I

[19:40] hadn't thought of uh between the fact

[19:42] that it took um Viseris two strikes to

[19:45] kill the uh deer that they caught in

[19:49] that episode. Um

[19:50] >> very good.

[19:52] >> Uh it's Reneier was struggling in a

[19:54] similar way. Um

[19:56] >> that's right.

[19:59] >> So she was trying to be like her dad.

[20:01] really goes to show how uh how sharp how

[20:03] sharp Valyrian Steel is because if you

[20:05] recall correctly Theon Greyjoy back in

[20:08] season two of Game of Thrones when he

[20:09] was beheading I think it was Mr. Luen um

[20:12] in Winterfell after he took Winterfell.

[20:14] He he had a regular sword and it took

[20:17] him like eight to 10 hacks to behead

[20:20] this guy. And Reineer, who I watched I I

[20:22] watched the scene twice just to be sure,

[20:24] didn't look like Reineer was even

[20:26] putting that much of her weight into it.

[20:28] It seemed like she was sort of passively

[20:30] doing the beheading.

[20:31] >> Uh two strokes by the standard of what I

[20:35] understand medieval beheading to be.

[20:38] pretty impressive for uh was was it dark

[20:40] sister?

[20:41] >> Maybe she missed her calling. Yes, I

[20:42] know actually it was Jayce's sword,

[20:44] wasn't it, that she took or was Jayce's

[20:46] sword not blaring?

[20:48] >> I think she was damaged for the

[20:50] beheading. But she did take Jayce's

[20:52] sword to King's Landing with her, which

[20:53] is a detail I we I learned from the uh

[20:55] the making of it was after the episode,

[20:58] >> which is very cool. But Damon gave her

[21:00] Dark Sister for that.

[21:03] >> Yeah. Uh the one thing I will say that

[21:06] is just again one of those things that's

[21:08] sort of out of the showrunners hands and

[21:10] this is more the result of just the

[21:12] state of the industry is auto. You know

[21:16] the auto scene was really cool for me

[21:18] because I have all of the Ice and Fire

[21:20] books behind me and I'm obsessed with

[21:21] the series. For your average viewer,

[21:24] your average viewer hasn't seen auto in

[21:26] like four years.

[21:29] >> We since the Biden administration. Yeah.

[21:31] since since the Biden administration.

[21:33] Yeah, we got some great scenes in

[21:35] episodes one and two of season two with

[21:37] Otto. Uh there was a scene the scene

[21:40] where Agon um sent him off and appointed

[21:44] Kristen Cole as the hand. The acting

[21:46] from all of them was really really good

[21:48] and and Otto was definitely a part of

[21:50] some great scenes in early season 2.

[21:51] Then he disappears for most of season

[21:54] two and appears only in a brief shot

[21:56] where he's captured at the very end of

[21:58] the finale. I have a feeling that was

[22:00] something that they threw in last minute

[22:02] to remind the viewers that there was

[22:04] going to be more Otto once they found

[22:05] out that the final two episodes weren't

[22:07] going to air. Um, so Otto gets brought

[22:10] out at the end of this episode and it is

[22:12] a massive moment and it is a massive

[22:15] conclusion to this one part of Reineer's

[22:18] story and frankly this one part of the

[22:20] history of King's Landing. But your

[22:23] average viewer hasn't spent a

[22:25] substantive amount of time with Otto in

[22:28] so long that I feel like the people who

[22:31] recently binged seasons one and two to

[22:33] remember what was going on before season

[22:35] 3 started probably had a little bit

[22:37] better an experience with that scene

[22:38] than someone who saw it.

[22:40] >> Right. That's like that's that's must be

[22:42] Allison's dad.

[22:45] >> The guy who played the

[22:48] >> That's what I mostly know him from. and

[22:49] also his great cameo in Venom 3. That

[22:52] totally made sense. Uh Olivia Davies

[22:54] just left us a comment reminded us that

[22:55] Theon killed Sir Rodrik and didn't kill

[22:58] um Maester Leuen.

[23:01] >> Who killed Mr.

[23:02] >> himself? I don't know somebody. Or maybe

[23:04] maybe they're wrong and I don't know. I

[23:06] I'm just saying that's a comment.

[23:08] >> I think it was Yeah, Roger Castle, Jory

[23:09] Castle's father. Um

[23:11] >> yeah, because Mr. Leuen is still alive

[23:13] when when uh

[23:15] >> the Ramsey takes over arrive.

[23:20] Okay, I want to quickly bring this up,

[23:22] guys. I don't know if you've seen this

[23:23] yet. If you watch our breakdowns, you've

[23:24] heard me talk about it. I love this

[23:26] freaking shirt. This is the Dance of the

[23:28] Dragons tour shirt. It's got dragons on

[23:30] the front. It's got uh Seven Kingdoms

[23:32] tour at the bottom and on the back. This

[23:34] absolutely amazing list of all of the

[23:37] different battles in the Game of Thrones

[23:38] font. I love this shirt. Mine's in the

[23:40] mail. I can't wait to show it to you

[23:41] guys in person. And we've got a couple

[23:43] other new shirts here I want to show

[23:44] off. Um, they're not a big deal in the

[23:47] show yet, but trust me, the winter

[23:48] wolves are some of the coolest Starks or

[23:50] coolest characters in Game of Thrones.

[23:52] So, this is a tribute to the winter

[23:54] wolves. We came to die shirt. Comes in

[23:56] multiple colors. And then one more we're

[23:57] showing for the first time in a live

[23:58] stream. Duncan egg. I really wish we

[24:02] would have thought of this one when uh

[24:04] Night of the Seven Kingdoms was on. It's

[24:05] got the elm tree with the star above it.

[24:07] And links for those and more are down

[24:09] below. Thank you very much.

[24:11] Um, I want to bring up, let's just go

[24:14] through some of the characters and talk

[24:15] about the fallout from the battle. So,

[24:17] last week, Alex, you brought up you

[24:19] couldn't really tell who was winning the

[24:20] battle. The sails were the same color.

[24:22] And I brought that into this episode. I

[24:25] was thinking about it and about how

[24:27] these people, the creators of the show,

[24:29] would know how to stage whether or not,

[24:31] you know, a battle was being won by one

[24:33] side. But I don't think the battle was

[24:35] about that. I think it was supposed to

[24:36] be personal stakes. And now I'm thinking

[24:38] that this episode was supposed to be a

[24:40] mystery until we found out. Was that

[24:42] your read on it? And do you, if so, do

[24:43] you think it was successful?

[24:45] >> Um, I don't know if I necessarily read

[24:46] it as a mystery so much as I changed my

[24:49] opinion, at least in this episode, that

[24:51] it was more about

[24:53] >> nobody really won because I think that

[24:55] was kind of the theme. I mean, that's

[24:56] the theme of Game of Thrones in a

[24:58] certain sense, but like certainly this

[25:00] episode like Rea winning the throne, but

[25:03] sort of potentially losing everything in

[25:05] that final moment with Allison, you work

[25:08] backwards from there. Everything comes

[25:10] out of that. Nobody is winning at any

[25:12] point. And that's what you get from just

[25:14] seeing the wreckage and the gullet.

[25:16] There's no winners or losers there. You

[25:18] have, I think, unless I'm wrong, it was

[25:20] the triarchy. Were they fleeing on shore

[25:22] at the beginning there and then getting

[25:24] cut down? Because to the point that

[25:26] we're getting at like as a more casual

[25:29] viewer, it wasn't entirely clear who

[25:30] anybody was because they're not like

[25:32] we're the triarchy. We got to get out of

[25:34] here. You know, nobody's and I'm glad

[25:36] they didn't, but it was more about like

[25:38] this is chaos and everybody is running

[25:42] off, trying to get away, trying to

[25:44] survive. It's the same thing that

[25:45] happens on that scene with Aegon and

[25:48] Laris on the road where it's just two

[25:50] armies coming at each other and they're

[25:52] doing their semic comedy thing in the

[25:55] middle there just trying to scurry off

[25:56] and escape. So, it was a long way around

[25:59] to saying that like I didn't need that

[26:02] as much in this episode because we did

[26:04] focus it on the personal. in the middle

[26:06] of the wreckage of the Battle of the

[26:08] Gullet, we honed in on Allan and Baya

[26:12] and what was going on with them. Uh,

[26:14] which I thought was great versus what I

[26:17] saw in the previous episode. Um, you got

[26:20] those really personal relationships.

[26:23] They were talking about Corass. They're

[26:24] looking for Corass. I wish it was a

[26:26] little harder to find him versus he was

[26:28] just kind of hanging on a rock, but

[26:30] that's one tiny quibble. Otherwise,

[26:32] great episode.

[26:33] big big guy big big white hair

[26:36] >> dragons

[26:37] isue that I kind of have with this show

[26:40] um I don't know how I would fix it

[26:42] there's a couple things where I'd be

[26:43] like here's what I would do this one I

[26:44] don't know I feel like on this show

[26:48] specifically in a way that was not true

[26:49] of Game of Thrones I sort of struggle to

[26:52] remember why Harrenhal is so important

[26:55] for them to hold I feel like the script

[26:58] does not go out of its way to remind us

[27:00] that much like Why does this big black

[27:04] castle that constantly seems empty and

[27:07] burnt out? Why is this such a

[27:09] centerpiece for this war? And I

[27:11] understand as somebody who reads his

[27:13] books, you know, the placement of

[27:14] Harrenhole, the size of Harrenhal, how

[27:16] difficult it is to take. I I get that.

[27:19] But if I were a casual viewer, I would

[27:21] just be like, why are why is everybody

[27:24] obsessing over the black spooky castle?

[27:26] I'm very nervous that some of the leaks

[27:28] are true. And I'm not going to spoil

[27:30] anything in the leaks, but just based on

[27:32] what I saw in this episode, I'm very

[27:34] nervous that we're gonna get an Aemon

[27:37] plot this season that is pretty much a

[27:39] retread of what happened with Damon last

[27:41] season where he was having trippy dreams

[27:44] in Harrenhal while um what's her name?

[27:48] >> I don't know. Am I the only one who kind

[27:49] of wants to see what his dreams are and

[27:50] if they're different? And that's the

[27:51] next thing I was going to break up bring

[27:53] up.

[27:54] >> It's more incest. It's like he already

[27:56] kissed Allison last week.

[27:58] >> Yeah. like and there was

[28:00] >> maybe we can make it go further this

[28:01] time. I don't know. Maybe like I don't

[28:03] know. Like maybe we broke the sale. We

[28:05] can do something else with it. I I don't

[28:07] know. I don't know.

[28:08] >> It's Ryan's take on House the Dragon. We

[28:10] need more incest.

[28:11] >> Yeah, I'm from southern Ohio. I don't

[28:13] know. Look, Damon Damon um in this

[28:17] episode, you know, we saw him humbled

[28:19] last season and I I personally am of the

[28:22] mind I love all the Damon [ __ ] last

[28:23] season. I love seeing this like spoiled

[28:26] brat of a prince get humbled in

[28:29] different ways and learn how hard it is

[28:31] to rule, how hard it is to be political

[28:34] and then seeing what Viserus saw or at

[28:36] least some version of Aegon's dream and

[28:39] understanding the future and then

[28:40] understanding he is a very small part of

[28:43] this larger puzzle. That was a great

[28:45] arc. And then this episode I do love

[28:48] though that he's not, you know, coming

[28:49] in like Gandalf the White totally

[28:51] changed. He's still such an arrogant

[28:53] prick. Like the way he treats, and no

[28:56] spoilers for the books, but the way he

[28:57] treats the dragon seeds and and Alice,

[29:00] not Yeah. Alice is like, "Dude, this

[29:03] woman saved your ass." Like, you would

[29:05] be nothing without her. And you won't

[29:07] even lie to her right now and say,

[29:09] "Well, yeah, I'll talk. See if I can get

[29:10] you a castle. I don't know." Like, you

[29:12] never know. Maybe we can. We got a

[29:14] female queen now. You know, maybe we can

[29:15] do something for you. And then I just on

[29:19] the other hand, and I want everybody's

[29:20] thoughts on Damon in this episode. It's

[29:23] interesting to see that he's the one now

[29:25] who is talking to Reneer and saying,

[29:26] "Remember the prophecy. Remember the

[29:28] real reason you're doing this because

[29:29] Damon used to be the person who pursued

[29:30] power for the sake of power. Now he's

[29:32] the one that has a higher calling." I'll

[29:33] I'll talk about Damon all day. I love

[29:35] this character. What do you guys think?

[29:37] I

[29:37] >> I agree with you. I thought he was great

[29:39] in this episode. And there's really

[29:41] complicated work going on from Matt

[29:42] Smith because it does hone down to

[29:46] really personal petty stuff like what he

[29:49] does with oh my gosh I'm Myria uh where

[29:52] obviously they have like a very deep

[29:54] history going on there but and he kind

[29:57] of can't let go of it until he does. The

[30:00] way that scene was staged with him going

[30:03] back on old pettiness, her pushing back

[30:05] on him, and ultimately them just sitting

[30:07] down on the bench, I thought was really

[30:09] nicely a nice way of saying that, yeah,

[30:11] they're not going to let go of this

[30:13] stuff, but ultimately they are both

[30:14] there for Rea and making sure Rea gets

[30:17] what she needs to get. And I thought

[30:19] that was a nice way of putting it. It

[30:21] allows them to be human, fleshed out,

[30:24] rounded out characters in the middle of

[30:26] these very big stakes. And then moving

[30:28] into what you're talking about, Ryan, I

[30:30] thought that next scene with Rea

[30:32] barereft over the death of Jace, sobbing

[30:34] on her bed, Damon sort of slow playing

[30:38] it, getting into being like telling her

[30:40] what happened, saying that she needs to

[30:42] step up, she needs to go with Allison's

[30:45] plan, and then ultimately pivoting to

[30:48] it's the fate of the world. It it's

[30:49] bigger than us. So, I think there's a

[30:52] level he understands that, but he also

[30:54] can't turn off being a total a-hole at

[30:57] any point. Also,

[31:00] >> Harry, what do you think?

[31:02] >> Yeah, I mean, I think uh that little

[31:05] smirk when he walks past Misaria when

[31:08] they're leaving, uh, is just like the

[31:11] epitome of that character. And yeah, I I

[31:14] loved that interaction between Damon and

[31:16] Misaria, like that power play going on

[31:18] there. Um, and I really hope um that

[31:24] Reneer uh kissing Misaria last season

[31:27] wasn't a one-off. I hope we get some

[31:29] more resolution of that plotline. Um,

[31:34] uh, not just because I would like to see

[31:36] it, but um, I think that uh, I I hope

[31:42] that Aean's plotline isn't a complete

[31:44] retreading of Damon's just because I

[31:46] want them to do something different. But

[31:48] I would like to see how Aean's character

[31:51] could undergo some kind of

[31:53] transformation because he has been a

[31:55] very static character and I would be

[31:57] interested to see what they do with him.

[32:00] >> So back to that Alice, right, last

[32:02] season we were like, well, what does she

[32:03] want? She must be a green sear and she's

[32:05] trying to protect the world from the ice

[32:07] zombies. In this episode, we find out

[32:09] yes and a castle, please. Um, I wonder

[32:13] because that makes me think, okay, well,

[32:15] she was doing that for Damon to stop the

[32:16] thing, right? Maybe Damon's key to this.

[32:18] Maybe Reneer is key to this. And we've

[32:20] seen Game of Thrones. We know Reneer's

[32:22] efforts and Aegon's. It doesn't matter

[32:24] like in the grand scheme of things. The

[32:26] Targaryen dynasty falls in a couple

[32:27] hundred years or so. So I wonder if then

[32:30] she can you if that would be her

[32:32] motivation for doing something similar

[32:33] with Aean and controlling him because

[32:35] she knows she exists at this time and

[32:36] place uh depending on how old she is,

[32:39] which is up for debate. And she knows

[32:41] the long night's going to happen or not

[32:43] happen. It's got nothing to do with her

[32:44] and she just wants a place to put her

[32:45] feet up and keep warm. Cam, what do you

[32:47] think?

[32:49] >> I mean, I I don't know. I think that

[32:50] with Prophecy, the showrunners are

[32:53] probably going to take the chance to

[32:56] engage with the stuff that's more from

[32:58] the World of Ice and Fire world book

[33:00] than it is from the main Ice and Fire

[33:02] series and from the Fire and Blood book.

[33:04] Uh, spoiler alert. You don't need to

[33:07] flash the sign again, but spoiler alert.

[33:10] There are photos that have been taken on

[33:12] set of the Green Men who are characters.

[33:16] >> The Green Men.

[33:17] >> Yeah. Yeah. They flashed Harry. Weren't

[33:19] they the Antler Guys, right?

[33:20] >> Yeah. The We saw for a moment. Um, and

[33:23] >> so spoiler alert for something that

[33:25] Cameron didn't know.

[33:26] >> Okay. Well, hypothetically, if we see

[33:28] them again, uh they're characters who

[33:30] are just maybe the most mysterious

[33:32] things in the whole series, and that

[33:35] includes the Shadowlands Beyond Ashai,

[33:37] which are kind of famous for being this

[33:39] thing that George left so vague because

[33:42] he wanted to toy around with it and then

[33:43] just never got to it. And now, because

[33:45] he wrote a million pages of Daenerys

[33:48] Targaryen and Marine, we're probably

[33:50] never going to get to see it. But the

[33:52] green men are these ancient beings in

[33:55] Westeros that seem to have ties to the

[33:57] children of the forest and the first man

[33:59] and potentially the others or the white

[34:01] walkers. Um, and they're on the aisle of

[34:03] faces, which is also one of the most

[34:06] mysterious locations in the series. I

[34:08] personally theorize that the aisle of

[34:10] faces is where the final book that will

[34:13] is totally going to come out of the ice

[34:15] and fire series is going to culminate. I

[34:18] think that Bran is going to go to the

[34:19] aisle of faces to make a new pact with

[34:22] the White Walkers. I don't think that

[34:23] the battle with the White Walkers ends

[34:25] in some giant war. I think that it ends

[34:27] in a pact because George R. Martin is a

[34:29] hippie and he doesn't think war is the

[34:30] answer to anything. Um, but I I I think

[34:34] if you have a season with Aean at

[34:38] Harrenhal and Harrenhal is right next to

[34:40] the aisle of faces, it's right on the

[34:41] God's eye and you have this magic

[34:43] element and you need something for him

[34:45] to do because that actor just like I

[34:47] like I say about everybody, he just

[34:49] chews up his screen time, he's so

[34:51] captivating, I think you might want to

[34:53] get into some of that lore and have a

[34:55] little bit of fun with it because there

[34:57] the what what has already been

[34:59] prophesized is the end to both Damon and

[35:02] Aean is not going to happen until season

[35:04] 4. They're not going to do that this

[35:05] year.

[35:06] >> So, what are we going to do with Aean

[35:07] this year? Because in the book, there

[35:10] isn't really much that he actually does

[35:12] between him taking Harrenhal and his

[35:15] character's ultimate demise. So, what

[35:18] are we going to give him for the next

[35:19] several episodes? And the answer is

[35:22] visions and magic stuff. And I think

[35:24] that we might see some ties to the Green

[35:27] Man. I honestly think we might see some

[35:29] things that people like Elio and Linda,

[35:32] George's uh assistants and editors and

[35:34] stuff, some things that they know about

[35:35] Ice and Fire that the books haven't

[35:37] necessarily

[35:38] >> Oh, interesting.

[35:39] >> I think that that's

[35:40] >> I I even though it looks like it's a

[35:42] retread and we'd be doing the same thing

[35:43] again. I personally am really intrigued.

[35:45] I like when we get into the deep magic.

[35:47] Question for I guess everybody here. Um

[35:50] at this point in history, there is a

[35:51] three-eyed raven. It's just not Brendan

[35:53] Rivers, right? Because isn't that like a

[35:54] title that passes from person to person?

[35:58] >> Depends on what you're citing because as

[36:01] far as we know in the books.

[36:02] >> Okay.

[36:03] >> As far as we know in the books, Brynden

[36:06] Rivers. I mean, he he hasn't even

[36:08] specified that he's Brendan Rivers, by

[36:10] the way. He's just said, "My mother

[36:12] named me Brynden." And we're pretty sure

[36:13] he's Brendan Rivers. But, uh,

[36:15] >> right.

[36:16] >> Blood Raven, as far as we know, is the

[36:18] only person who is assumed to be the

[36:20] three-eyed crow. But not to get into ice

[36:23] and fire fan theory territory, I will

[36:25] say when Bran asks him, "Are you the

[36:27] three-eyed crow?" or in the show it's

[36:29] called the three-eyed raven. When Bran

[36:30] asks him, "Are you the three-eyed crow?"

[36:32] he goes,

[36:33] >> "Crow." Um, so Blood Raven, while he's

[36:38] attached to the weirwood tree, while

[36:39] he's the three-eyed crow, he doesn't

[36:41] know what Bran is talking about when

[36:43] Bran says three-eyed crow. So,

[36:47] >> is the three-eyed crow some other entity

[36:49] or is it just the manifestation?

[36:51] >> Okay.

[36:52] >> Is it just the manifestation of Blood

[36:53] Raven in Bran's dreams? And Blood Raven

[36:56] doesn't really know how he appears in

[36:58] Bran's dreams. But again, Bran didn't

[37:00] say, "Are you the three-eyed crow?" And

[37:02] Blood Raven said, "Yes, it was me all

[37:04] along." He was like, "I don't really

[37:05] know what you're talking about. I'm name

[37:07] my name is Brendan." So, there's a lot

[37:10] of there's a lot of questions that can

[37:11] be answered that I don't necessarily

[37:14] think we might ever get answers to. And

[37:15] I think that if you're going to have a

[37:17] season of a character so captivating as

[37:20] Aean walking around Harrenhal, you might

[37:22] be able to get into a little bit of the

[37:23] lore just to throw the bones just to

[37:25] throw the fans a little bit of a bone

[37:27] >> and to not repeat from the first

[37:29] episode too.

[37:30] >> There's one other aspect and I might be

[37:31] way off base about this because it's

[37:34] based on just how he crawled towards

[37:37] Alice. It was like have to be is he's

[37:40] probably found another mommy figure,

[37:42] right? Like that's what he's obsessed

[37:43] with. And I I don't know. Alice wants

[37:46] Harrenhal so badly for whatever reason

[37:50] it is long-term or short term that I

[37:53] feel like we're going to get a little

[37:56] something there as well.

[37:57] >> I hope it turns out that Alice doesn't

[37:59] actually, you know, because the thing

[38:00] about Alice is, and you know, Harry, you

[38:02] talked about this in your script last

[38:03] night, she could be really old. She

[38:05] could be like tied to the the children

[38:07] of the forest and old gods or she could

[38:09] not be. Like it it's left ambiguous on

[38:11] purpose and I really hope that she's

[38:13] like super duper old and is tied to the

[38:15] old magic and part of the reason she

[38:16] wants Harrenhal is because you know they

[38:18] cut down weirdwood trees to build it and

[38:20] it's like it would be a completion to

[38:22] all of the injustice done to the green

[38:24] tears of the past. That's what I'm

[38:25] hoping for. I also got some questions I

[38:27] want to ask you guys about Allison and

[38:29] her arc in this. But first, um, let's

[38:32] just really quickly I want to revisit

[38:34] Raina and sheep stealer. Rain is the one

[38:35] who takes her, right? I always get the

[38:36] two twins confused.

[38:37] >> Yes,

[38:38] >> that's an interesting story. So, the

[38:40] lady of the veil basically turned her

[38:42] away. Said, "I don't want you." And in

[38:45] the book, it's not Raina, it's Nettles.

[38:48] And I don't think the book had Nettles

[38:50] being responsible for the death of Jace.

[38:52] So, they're doing something different

[38:54] here. It seems like on paper they're

[38:57] leaving her with no choice and she'll

[38:59] have to go to the Greens. What do you

[39:00] guys think?

[39:03] >> I don't know if I think that she's going

[39:06] to the Greens um because of this. I

[39:08] mean, it seems like based on where we

[39:12] left her in this episode, uh she's just

[39:14] going to hang out in the veil. um which

[39:18] I think you know Nettles spends a lot of

[39:21] time um kind of hanging out in the

[39:24] wilderness and I wouldn't be surprised

[39:26] if they kind of give that arc to Raina.

[39:29] >> Um I I don't think we're going to see

[39:31] her go over to the greens though. I

[39:32] don't think that as a character

[39:36] uh like she would ever turn on her

[39:39] sister. But

[39:41] >> um but who knows? Can I just say that

[39:45] sounds awesome because first of all I

[39:47] barely remember anything about her as a

[39:49] character. I mean they really haven't

[39:50] given her that much to chew on. Like I

[39:53] know that she is the character they're

[39:54] subbing in for Nettles and is of you

[39:58] know uh the descent of old Valyria.

[40:00] That's pretty much all I've got on her.

[40:02] Um in the book there's just all these

[40:04] characters. It's they can only be so

[40:06] fleshed out. Um her going to the greens

[40:08] I'd be like okay I forgive you guys for

[40:10] cutting Nettles. Nettles is the coolest

[40:12] character in the dance of the dragons.

[40:15] She's in my opinion the most important

[40:18] part of the dance because I don't think

[40:20] she has any dragon blood in her. I think

[40:22] she's just a really smart

[40:24] >> I think we talked last week there is a

[40:25] fan theory that she's Damon's uh master

[40:28] daughter

[40:29] >> when she when he lived in the veil. And

[40:32] I hope that's not true because

[40:36] >> I personally like the idea that she

[40:37] tamed the dragon better like that she

[40:39] just brought the dragon.

[40:41] >> Yeah. Earnest. Yeah.

[40:42] >> Again, that makes the Valyrian supremacy

[40:44] thing one of those self-fulfilling

[40:46] prophecies that George loves so much.

[40:48] But I don't think George entirely knows

[40:50] his opinion on Valyrian supremacy

[40:52] because George R. Martin as an

[40:53] individual seems to like loathe the

[40:57] concept of genetic supremacy but also

[41:00] seems to think that Valyrians are a

[41:02] little bit better like

[41:03] >> well it's well it's blood magic I don't

[41:05] think I think what he also shows is the

[41:07] same thing that makes them strong the

[41:09] blood the tie to the dragons is also the

[41:11] same thing that they're undoing because

[41:12] they're so incredibly inbred that they

[41:15] all go insane no matter how sweet they

[41:16] seemed when they were 13 years old.

[41:20] >> Yeah. Um, well, what what I was going to

[41:23] say was like if Sheepsteeler goes to the

[41:26] Greens, that will fix what I consider to

[41:30] be a bunch of logical issues with the

[41:32] story because even with Vagar, even with

[41:37] Vaggar,

[41:39] >> the Black faction has so many dragons at

[41:43] this point that it takes a lot of

[41:46] contrivances in Fire and Blood, by the

[41:49] way, for black faction to just not

[41:52] obliterate the green faction

[41:54] immediately. I mean like yes, Vagar is

[41:56] formidable. I am not downplaying that at

[41:58] all. If you just send Cyrax or in like

[42:02] the Valyrian pronunciation that Reineer

[42:04] uses like Serak uh if you just send

[42:07] Cerak and Maraxis or Caraxis which one

[42:11] is Damon's Damax

[42:13] the blood worm, right? Uh yeah, if you

[42:16] send them to team up against Vaggar,

[42:19] >> send one of them for Vagar's big fat

[42:21] neck, Vaggar's done. Like it it requires

[42:24] a lot of timing and placement for this

[42:27] >> slow too.

[42:28] >> Var slow. And also Vermathur is

[42:30] >> slow.

[42:31] >> Vermathor is a huge

[42:32] >> No, I mean I think that's why the thing

[42:34] with the dragon seeds, they're they're

[42:35] doing work to move them around the board

[42:37] a little bit. Like go wait here. Well,

[42:39] we thought maybe we should move because

[42:40] they're dumb asses. Hugh Hammer. I think

[42:42] I'm waiting for Hugh Hammer to be as

[42:44] cool as he is in the book. But Ol is

[42:47] definitely what I thought he would be

[42:48] like. He's just a huge dumbass. Arman

[42:50] gave us two pounds. Said, "Can't stick

[42:52] around for long. Uh you're sick." And

[42:53] just saying hi. We hope you feel better.

[42:56] >> Arman. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I was just

[42:58] gonna say like would love for another

[43:00] dragon to go team up with the Greens

[43:02] because the Greens have Vaggar and

[43:06] they've got Tacerion,

[43:08] uh, the blue dragon who we're going to

[43:09] meet who I think we saw in a cage.

[43:12] >> Um, and really, I mean, and then you've

[43:16] got

[43:16] >> dragon, right?

[43:18] >> Uh, that's Yeah. And then you got

[43:20] Sunfire who we're not entirely sure what

[43:22] Sunfire's circumstances are right now,

[43:25] but um you know uh things are the the

[43:28] Greens don't have that many dragons and

[43:30] the black faction has so many dragons

[43:33] that putting the putting Sheepsteel on

[43:36] the green side would at least give a

[43:38] little bit more of a dynamic to that. Um

[43:41] >> but I I don't know. I don't think it's

[43:42] going to happen. Just the thing about I

[43:45] I I I totally I I love Nettles going

[43:48] into the mountains and becoming a

[43:49] mountain witch because when you're

[43:51] reading Fire and Blood and you haven't

[43:53] heard from Nettles in a really long time

[43:55] and like 200 pages after the last

[43:58] Nettles mention you hearing word of a

[44:00] witch in the mountains and suddenly

[44:03] everyone says hey guys it's Nettles and

[44:05] she's with Sheep Steeler. That was one

[44:07] of the coolest parts of reading the

[44:08] entire book. I was like this is awesome.

[44:10] But I'm

[44:11] >> it's also another chance to bring a

[44:13] commoner into the story uh into

[44:15] especially into a show that mostly

[44:16] focuses on, you know, wealthy Targaryen

[44:19] uh lords and highborn people.

[44:22] >> Yeah. So, but what I'm saying is I don't

[44:23] completely remember the timeline. Maybe

[44:25] one of you guys will be able to help me

[44:26] with this. I'm pretty sure the Nettles

[44:29] um and I'm pretty sure Nettles appearing

[44:32] in the mountains is something that

[44:34] happens after the dance and I don't

[44:38] >> that's correct. I think it happens

[44:39] during I think it happens during the

[44:41] reign of the king who will be king after

[44:44] this is all over. And I I don't think

[44:47] the show is going to end m I think the

[44:49] show maybe ends with that king's

[44:51] coronation. Other than that a lot of the

[44:54] final maybe 50 to 100 pages of fire and

[44:58] blood I don't think are going to make it

[44:59] into a show into the show. Like I think

[45:01] this show is telling the story of

[45:03] Reineer and Agon II and Fire and Blood

[45:07] goes a little bit further than that. So

[45:08] I don't think the Sheep Steelers in the

[45:10] mountains plot is going to happen and

[45:12] therefore if they send Sheep Steeler to

[45:14] the Greens,

[45:15] >> great.

[45:16] >> I wonder if they're going to adjust the

[45:17] timeline a little bit and end the show

[45:19] with the Last Dragon Dine

[45:21] just for to put a real button on it. I

[45:23] know they last, they persist for a

[45:25] while, but they don't grow any larger.

[45:26] But they they I think need something at

[45:28] the end of the show to tell us, yeah,

[45:30] the age of the dragons is done. So,

[45:32] let's get to Allison real quick. So,

[45:34] Allison spends the episode trying to

[45:36] save her one good kid, mother of the

[45:38] year, uh Helena, and trying to protect

[45:41] her and they're running around. Harriet,

[45:42] in your Easter egg video, you did a

[45:43] great job of mentioning that everybody

[45:45] recognizes them because Otto made them

[45:47] parade the body of her child throughout

[45:49] the streets of King's Landing. So,

[45:50] they're caught immediately. And then

[45:52] Allison goes in that throne room and she

[45:55] sees that her father is dead. She

[45:56] doesn't necessarily know that Reneer did

[45:58] it, but she sees that he is dead. I

[46:01] wonder in that moment how much love she

[46:03] had for her father, how betrayed she

[46:06] felt by Rener, or if she felt betrayed

[46:08] at all. And if she thinks in that

[46:10] moment, oh, I didn't expect this. I've

[46:12] made the wrong decision because she was

[46:13] ready for Reneer to kill her her kid.

[46:16] You think that her [ __ ] dad that set

[46:18] her up to be a sex slave for decades is

[46:21] where she draws the line? Like what's

[46:22] everybody's thoughts on it? Harry, what

[46:24] do you think?

[46:25] >> I mean, I I do think that's kind of a a

[46:28] line for her because that was not the

[46:30] deal that they made. Like Allison has

[46:32] been

[46:33] >> bending over backwards to set everything

[46:35] up. And you could argue that she has

[46:37] also like reneged on her part of the

[46:39] deal because Aegon isn't there. Although

[46:40] that's not her fault, but um

[46:42] >> Sure.

[46:44] But she it was very very difficult for

[46:46] her to make that decision to say yeah

[46:49] you can you can kill Aegon and come and

[46:52] come take over. Like I think Olivia

[46:53] Cook's acting in that scene is

[46:56] phenomenal also. Um but I think uh she

[47:01] does have love for her father. I mean I

[47:04] don't think that Otto was a good dad.

[47:07] Um, but I think the scene like where uh

[47:11] Otto is banished from King's Landing in

[47:14] season 1. Um, and uh Allison is left

[47:18] behind crying uh and he says to her,

[47:20] "You chose Reneer."

[47:22] >> Um, and this is an echo of that exact

[47:25] thing. She chose Rene and ended with her

[47:27] father's death. And I think she is

[47:30] afraid like all the throughout the whole

[47:32] episode she's been saying to everyone

[47:35] um if Rene comes in and becomes queen we

[47:39] can end this war without further

[47:40] bloodshed. It will be peace no more

[47:42] death. Um and I think the death that she

[47:45] was resigned to was Aegon's. I do not

[47:47] think she was resigned to seeing her

[47:50] father beheaded

[47:52] >> um when she didn't even know he was

[47:53] there. So um that's another thing. But I

[47:57] think, you know, we can we can argue all

[47:59] day whether or not she's actually

[48:00] justified to feel betrayed by that. But

[48:03] ultimately, like emotion doesn't follow

[48:06] 100% logical reason. And I think she's

[48:10] pretty upset about this.

[48:12] Uh, I just want to add on to that and I

[48:15] think those are all great points just

[48:16] very briefly, but just in terms of the

[48:18] acting, the pairing of a silent Olivia

[48:22] Cook reaction shot where she goes

[48:24] through maybe five different emotions

[48:26] followed up by Emma Darcy also going

[48:28] through five different emotions I

[48:30] thought was great, not just for

[48:32] showcasing these two incredible actors,

[48:34] but also reentering the show. We have a

[48:37] seismic change at the end here to

[48:40] everything that has gone on in the

[48:41] previous episodes to say, "Nope, this

[48:44] show is still about Radiraa and Allison

[48:46] and their relationship with each other

[48:49] bigger than prophecy, bigger than all

[48:51] these deaths, bigger than anything else.

[48:52] Are they are they ever going to be able

[48:55] to find common ground again?" That's the

[48:57] thing coming out of this episode that I

[48:59] am most excited to see.

[49:01] >> They just they just wanted to to just

[49:04] run around. Anybody's phone ringing on

[49:05] the other end there? They just wanted to

[49:07] fly around. It's okay. They wanted to

[49:08] fly around just being girlfriends and

[49:12] having dragon adventures, man. It just

[49:14] sucks. Like every time I see these two

[49:16] on screen,

[49:17] >> it it reminds me of a really good play I

[49:19] recently saw where I'm just like just as

[49:22] >> for Allison in particular, I think who I

[49:25] think we all agree has never done

[49:26] anything wrong in her entire life. She's

[49:28] a precious.

[49:28] >> She's perfect. She's without spot.

[49:30] >> Exactly. But she works so hard this

[49:33] episode to keep things on track. She

[49:35] puts everything on the line. And like

[49:38] Harriet was saying, to then come in and

[49:39] be like, not only captured when she was

[49:42] trying to get out of town and keep her

[49:43] daughter safe, but also to be like, "Oh,

[49:45] my father is dead and his blood is all

[49:47] over the floor."

[49:49] >> That's such a punch in the gut for

[49:51] Olivia Cook plays it so well.

[49:52] >> Yeah.

[49:53] >> And the plan to leave was so silly, too.

[49:55] I mean,

[49:56] >> yes.

[49:57] >> Why not just if you're going to trust

[49:58] Reneer for everything else? You think

[49:59] she's going to kill you? I I don't know.

[50:01] Sorry, Cam. Go ahead.

[50:02] I'm so I promise you I literally swear

[50:05] on my life I'm not going to bring up A

[50:06] Feast for Crows again. I've brought up A

[50:08] Feast for Crows probably the last four

[50:10] screen crush appearances I made. I'm not

[50:11] going to do it. But Allison go ahead was

[50:14] a really interesting character in season

[50:16] two uh because she had these long boring

[50:19] meandering scenes which I really liked

[50:21] and I thought that they were some of the

[50:22] best scenes in the season where she's

[50:24] sitting around in the consequences of

[50:26] her own actions because you know Allison

[50:28] is one of these characters and and they

[50:30] make a point to show you this in how

[50:32] much symbolism she uses with the

[50:34] seven-pointed star how often she's

[50:36] wearing that necklace that represents

[50:38] the faith. Allison is sort of that

[50:40] character that reminds us that one of

[50:43] the uh most vital partners in

[50:45] perpetuating misogyny is the women who

[50:48] help out to do it. And Allison is that

[50:51] woman. You know, she's the woman who

[50:53] works for the boss at the company where

[50:55] the boss is sexually harassing one of

[50:56] the employees and sends his female

[50:59] assistant to go cover it up, intimidate

[51:02] the victim. Those things like it's

[51:04] something we see in politics all the

[51:05] time. like Allison has been someone

[51:08] knowingly and unknowingly perpetuating

[51:10] all of the things that the show is about

[51:14] and in season two watching just the

[51:16] disaster that came from the coronation

[51:18] of Egon II she got to live in those

[51:22] consequences and something that I'm very

[51:23] afraid of with the show and I say this

[51:25] as an Allison fan is that the writers

[51:28] are just going to get obsessed with

[51:30] humiliating her. I think that the scene

[51:32] where she was attacked by somebody who

[51:35] had the intent of committing sexual

[51:37] violence, it didn't end up going

[51:39] through, but it just made me think that

[51:41] the writers might be entering this

[51:42] pattern of behavior where they're like,

[51:44] "Oh, we're going to use Allison as sort

[51:47] of this um dummy to beat up uh for all

[51:51] of the grievances that people have with

[51:53] the green cause, and we're just going to

[51:55] constantly put Allison through this

[51:57] endless torture, which is just something

[51:59] we've been seeing with her.

[52:02] you know, again, throughout season two

[52:03] as well. So, now she's finally done this

[52:05] thing and made a point to help support

[52:09] the coronation of Reineer, or not the

[52:11] coronation, she the Reineer taking

[52:13] King's Landing. I'm like, are are they

[52:16] going to make us sit here and watch

[52:18] Allison just get humiliated over and

[52:20] over again, or is she going to play some

[52:22] different role? So, I'm hoping we get

[52:23] something.

[52:25] >> Harriet, in your video, you made a good

[52:26] point. Uh, you really spoke to that

[52:28] scene really well. you might got an

[52:29] answer for that?

[52:30] >> Yeah, I I've been thinking a lot about

[52:32] that scene because I've seen a lot of

[52:34] critiques of it um this morning after

[52:36] the

[52:36] >> and in the chat right now, too.

[52:38] >> And in the chat right now. Um which I

[52:40] understand a lot of those criticisms,

[52:43] but at the same time, I actually really

[52:46] like that scene for the plot and for

[52:48] Allison's character. I think um this is

[52:51] the first time that Allison has ever

[52:57] been able to has ever tried to say no to

[53:00] sex. She's been a victim of sexual

[53:02] violence her entire life. Um and I think

[53:05] seeing her viciously fight back in that

[53:07] moment was really cathartic as a

[53:09] character choice. I mean the scene is

[53:10] horrifying obviously. Um, but I think it

[53:13] it does matter that that was her

[53:15] reaction was that finally like the

[53:18] clawing and the attacking with the

[53:20] statueette and everything.

[53:22] >> Um, and also I think um

[53:26] this might be my more hot take about it.

[53:29] I think that Lord Jasper in that scene

[53:31] is meant to be a standin for some of the

[53:35] people who really hate Allison. I think

[53:37] um

[53:38] >> interesting

[53:38] >> the things that he says at the beginning

[53:40] of that scene like

[53:41] >> oh you've been worming your way up in

[53:43] court your whole life like basically

[53:46] accusing her of like seducing Viseris

[53:48] which is a complaint that

[53:51] >> people have about Allison that I could

[53:53] not disagree more with but I won't I

[53:55] won't go on that rant

[53:57] >> at this moment. um and uh basically

[54:01] accusing her of being like a scheming

[54:03] little seductress, which is like a very

[54:05] disingenuous even

[54:08] >> it's not even remotely a part of the

[54:10] show. I mean, the reason she hates

[54:11] Reneer is because Reeneer got to do what

[54:13] she wants and she didn't. I I don't

[54:14] know. I I guess if you're not reading

[54:16] subtext into the show and you only like

[54:18] read recaps after, you could take that.

[54:19] I don't Yeah, I don't get

[54:21] >> it. It may be if you just hate women. Um

[54:24] but uh

[54:26] the but then seeing it kind of

[54:30] >> but seeing like this like basically the

[54:32] show almost I felt like was like this is

[54:34] the character that you are and um you

[54:37] get your head cut off by the end of the

[54:38] episode. So

[54:39] >> I'll also throw out there and just to

[54:42] give like a little bit of a different

[54:44] view on it though I agree with

[54:45] everything that you just said there is

[54:48] without speaking about the explicit

[54:51] content and different ways that they

[54:52] could do it. Uh, I took this as yet

[54:55] another way where, oh, we're watching a

[54:57] franchise where everything goes wrong

[54:59] all the time. And just when the

[55:01] characters are about to have a victory,

[55:04] it's snatched away from him. Throughout

[55:06] this episode, as I mentioned earlier, we

[55:08] have multiple scenes where that happens

[55:09] where instead they kind of win like

[55:11] almost immediately. I mean, down to

[55:14] finding Courtless very quickly on the

[55:16] rocks where you would expect that to

[55:17] stretch out for episodes and episodes.

[55:19] He'd end up in a horrible circumstance.

[55:21] instead they find him and he's like

[55:22] walking around and pretty much find the

[55:24] next scene. Same thing with this Allison

[55:27] scene where you expect her to be

[55:30] assaulted based on everything we've

[55:32] watched for what is it 15 years or so at

[55:34] this point or you would expect Orbal to

[55:37] come in and sign side with Jasper Wild

[55:40] and things get horribly wrong and

[55:41] Allison is thrown in prison or whatever

[55:43] else. Instead,

[55:46] Orwell comes in at the right time, says

[55:47] the truth the way that he sees it, and

[55:50] she's free to go. So, we get this entire

[55:53] episode, same as Rea and Damon, just

[55:56] walking into King's Landing, walking

[55:58] into the Red Keep with barely anybody

[56:00] standing against them most of the time.

[56:02] That's something that never happens. So

[56:05] that to me, while I might not, you know,

[56:09] I'm not like we this is a fun scene to

[56:11] watch or anything, but it's thrilling to

[56:13] watch like, oh, things are turning out

[56:15] right for our folks right up until

[56:17] >> they don't at the end and it twists and

[56:19] obviously things are going to go

[56:20] horribly wrong for the next eight uh not

[56:23] six episodes or so. But that to me felt

[56:26] like that was the place there to show us

[56:28] Allison in the situation where we've

[56:30] seen her in so many times before and

[56:34] this time it kind of goes right and

[56:37] she's the main man as that shirt says.

[56:39] Is that what it was?

[56:40] >> Yeah, that was an accident. I'm sorry

[56:41] about that. I was hoping it was

[56:42] accidentally a Game of Thrones shirt but

[56:44] I I literally minimized the screen and

[56:45] hit the thumb.

[56:46] >> They're all passages. That's what I

[56:47] would say. But yeah, but they did a

[56:50] great job there of like ropeadoping you

[56:52] of you thinking assuming it's it's so

[56:54] much fun because I you haven't read the

[56:55] book to hear your reaction when they

[56:56] stormed the Red Keep because I I you

[56:58] know we all knew the three of us knew

[57:00] what was going to happen. So

[57:02] >> getting to hear that it was even

[57:03] suspenseful wasn't something that would

[57:04] really cross my mind because when you

[57:06] read the book it's like and then they

[57:08] went into you like it just tells you it

[57:10] happened. that doesn't say like they

[57:11] went down a hallway. This it's like it's

[57:13] a maester recounting stuff that a priest

[57:15] and a dwarf said, you know, like it's

[57:17] it's not presented in a dramatic way.

[57:19] You have to like read the drama from the

[57:20] situation. Uh guys, we got to wrap it up

[57:22] there. Go ahead. Oh, no, we got a super

[57:24] chat, too. Go ahead, Harry.

[57:25] >> I was just saying I I always watch it

[57:27] with two friends who have not seen the

[57:30] book and they were both like, I'm so

[57:31] scared. I'm so scared during that whole

[57:33] season.

[57:33] >> Oh, that's awesome.

[57:35] >> Yeah, I guess I I do too. I just don't,

[57:37] you know, I don't measure the reactions

[57:39] that much. Okay, so the one knock the

[57:42] one who knocks very cute is five B gave

[57:45] us five bucks and I like this a lot said

[57:47] are Laris and Aean the new Rosen CR and

[57:50] Gilden Sterner what seriously what's

[57:52] going on with them look in the book all

[57:54] I'll say is Aean just or Aegon just

[57:57] disappears he just goes away for a while

[57:59] right uh because nobody knew where he

[58:01] was and one thing I love about this

[58:03] series is finding out that Rene and

[58:05] Allison had a deep friendship from

[58:07] childhood from girlhood and finding out

[58:11] where the hell he went when he

[58:13] disappeared and just the fact that like,

[58:16] you know, they're sniping at each other

[58:17] and he's mad at him and he doesn't see

[58:20] he's a dumbass so he doesn't see the

[58:21] bigger picture and the way that you

[58:22] pointed out in the breakdown Harriet he

[58:24] snaps off the air just jabs the guy from

[58:26] the triarchy because he's so frustrated

[58:28] and he's trying own some control of the

[58:30] situation.

[58:31] >> Thanks so much.

[58:32] >> You got all my love.

[58:33] >> All right, Cam, you're fired. I'll talk

[58:34] to you later.

[58:35] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[58:38] >> Oops. Wait. Oh,

[58:39] >> I missed. He took himself off. I fired

[58:41] Harry at the same time. Sorry about

[58:42] that. Yeah, but no, he is they've been

[58:44] absolutely so much fun to pair together.

[58:46] Uh, really good.

[58:47] >> Yeah, they're doing their like little

[58:48] like Three Stooges routine and I'm

[58:50] obsessed with it.

[58:51] >> Yeah, it's like it's like the the road

[58:53] the road to King's Landing.

[58:55] >> Exactly. They're the new Bing Crosby and

[58:57] Bob Hope is what's going on here.

[58:59] >> I'm lo I'm loving every second of it.

[59:01] All right, we got to get Oh, Alex, does

[59:03] the people on the phone ever get back to

[59:04] you? What's going

[59:05] >> Oh, yeah. They actually said I got to

[59:06] get on Chop Chop. Um, again, not sure

[59:08] what that means, but I'll

[59:10] >> got it.

[59:11] >> Excellent.

[59:12] >> Thank you so much. You can find Alex on

[59:13] the Comic Book Club podcast. That is

[59:15] linked below. And of course, Harriet,

[59:16] her own channel is linked below, and you

[59:18] can find her stuff here on Screen Crush

[59:19] all the time. Harriet, love your videos.

[59:22] Uh, love working with you and thanks for

[59:24] coming on.

[59:25] >> Thank you.

[59:26] >> Bye. And we want to hear from you guys.

[59:29] What did you think about the episode?

[59:30] Let us know your thoughts down in the

[59:31] comments below. And remember, Screen

[59:33] Crush members at our $5 tier, get 15%

[59:36] off our merch store and all the really

[59:37] cool Game of Thrones merch we showed

[59:39] before. You can let us know what you

[59:40] think down in the comments or on our

[59:41] free to join Discord server or follow me

[59:43] on Substack. That's always a big help.

[59:44] And if it's your first time here, make

[59:46] sure you subscribe and smash that bell

[59:47] for alerts for Screen Crush. I'm Ryan.