DC Studios After Supergirl: Full Breakdown & Transcript

[00:00] Can a project at DC Studios take off

[00:02] without James Gunn being the writer

[00:04] director of it? James Gunn, you promised

[00:06] us we would be getting rocksolid

[00:07] scripts, and this script is not rock

[00:10] solid. [music] Immediately 59% on Rotten

[00:12] Tomatoes. Peter Saffron and James Gun

[00:14] were like, "This is going to be inspired

[00:15] by Tom Kings and Billy. Evelyn's Woman

[00:17] of Tomorrow comic story line in Junkits.

[00:19] They were like, um, just kidding.

[00:20] Actually, [music] we didn't." It feels

[00:22] like the people who worked on this movie

[00:23] and Warner Brothers knew that there were

[00:25] issues with this. I don't think we

[00:27] should be immediately putting James Gun

[00:29] to like the highest standard of

[00:30] screenwriting. I don't think he's like

[00:32] the greatest screenwriter of all time.

[00:33] >> I honestly think like James Gun is still

[00:35] like a valuable asset to the Ellison no

[00:38] matter what. Matt Reeves the Batman is

[00:40] going to cook. The question will be this

[00:42] other DCU movie that they want Supergirl

[00:45] to be a part of in 2028. If if you're

[00:47] trying to write this type of franchise

[00:48] film, your movie has to be a hit. You

[00:51] had a win. You had an easy win. And for

[00:53] whatever reason, they chose to like make

[00:55] it hard [music] for themselves. Welcome

[00:56] back to New Rockstars. Supergirl is now

[00:58] in theaters. It's the second film of the

[01:00] DC Studios era under the leadership of

[01:02] James Gunn and Peter Saffron. And the

[01:04] reception for the film in its opening

[01:06] weekend has been mixed. As we look ahead

[01:08] to the future of this franchise, it's

[01:10] really time to talk about the state of

[01:12] DC Studios.

[01:14] >> Yes, this is the sneak peek, the weekly

[01:15] show here at New Rockstars, where we

[01:17] look ahead to the future of fandom with

[01:18] your host Jessica Clemens and Eric Voss.

[01:20] >> Hello Jessica. Yes, it's time to talk

[01:21] about the state of DC. Our breakdown of

[01:24] the full Supergirl film for all the

[01:26] Easter eggs and comic book references is

[01:28] on the channel. It came out on Friday.

[01:30] Uh here we're just kind of like checking

[01:32] in with like this insane discourse that

[01:34] we've been in throughout this weekend.

[01:36] Obviously, it's a turbulent time at

[01:37] Warner Brothers as a studio with the

[01:40] Paramount Sky Dance Company run by the

[01:42] Ellison's David Ellison CEO is planning

[01:44] to acquire this company. The Justiceart

[01:47] Department approved that merger. It's

[01:48] probably going to be happening at the

[01:50] end of this year. Um, uh, so a lot

[01:52] there's been a lot of talk like, uhoh,

[01:54] if Supergirl underperforms, is James

[01:56] Gunn going to get fired? No, that's not

[01:59] >> a crazy catch. That'd be a crazy

[02:01] contract deal, one movie.

[02:03] >> Yeah. And it wouldn't be based off of

[02:04] this one movie. It's going to take a few

[02:06] more failures for that to happen. Um, or

[02:09] James Gunn, I think, would just choose

[02:11] to leave. But I I think there's like a

[02:13] few other movies that are going to be

[02:14] coming out either way, including

[02:16] Clayface, Man of Tomorrow, the the

[02:19] Batman by Matt Reeves, and then a

[02:20] follow-up to Man of Tomorrow, The

[02:22] Lantern series is coming out. Uh but we

[02:24] should take a little snapshot of where

[02:26] we're at right now. So, um Supergirl is

[02:29] still currently in theaters. By the time

[02:30] you're watching this video, you may know

[02:31] what the opening weekend box office is.

[02:33] We're recording it a few days early, but

[02:35] it it's currently projected to make 70

[02:37] or 47 million in the opening weekend.

[02:40] 47. Now, that's way lower than some of

[02:42] the projections you saw in the weeks

[02:43] leading up to it. 70 million, 80 million

[02:46] domestic, something like that. We're

[02:47] going to talk about why you may have

[02:49] seen some of those high ball

[02:50] projections. Uh, and it's projected to

[02:53] make somewhere around 90 million global.

[02:56] U, but the Rotten Tomato score, it it

[02:59] came out immediately 59% on Rotten

[03:01] Tomatoes. And then over the past week

[03:03] with all different kinds of critics

[03:05] reviews coming in, it's been kind of

[03:06] hovering from the 50s to the 60s. Uh, by

[03:09] the time we started recording this

[03:11] podcast, it was at 57%, but that number

[03:13] may have changed by the time you're

[03:15] watching this. Um, in particular, you

[03:17] may have seen going around a review from

[03:19] the Variety critic Owen Gberman, a

[03:21] critic I highly highly respect. I grew

[03:24] up reading his reviews in Entertainment

[03:25] Weekly, and I generally agree with his

[03:27] takes, even if he's a little grouchy

[03:29] about like superhero cinema in general.

[03:31] He's he's like the closest I think we

[03:33] have to Roger Eert. He's very fair, and

[03:36] he writes really great reviews. And in

[03:38] this case, he gave a scathing review of

[03:39] the film. And I'm going to read this

[03:41] quote that he gave. I think this is

[03:43] really the the crux of his frustration

[03:45] with this film. He writes, "James Gun,

[03:47] along with Peter Saffron, knew that he

[03:49] was launching DC Studios right into the

[03:51] teeth of superhero fatigue. Gun got

[03:53] asked a lot about how he was going to

[03:55] avoid that, and the key thing he said

[03:57] was, "We're not going into production on

[04:00] any movie until the script we have is

[04:02] rock solid." For that was the overriding

[04:04] problem with the superhero overkill era.

[04:07] The films had lousy scripts which were

[04:09] used as grids on which to layer the

[04:11] visual effects. Gun was right to want to

[04:14] take the comic book genre back to well

[04:16] ststructured screenwriting basics. So

[04:18] what has he done in his second DC

[04:20] outing? He's given us a comic book movie

[04:22] with the worst script I can remember.

[04:24] End quote. From Owen Gleberman from

[04:26] Variety. Um so as we talk about this

[04:29] movie, I have seen it. Jessica, you have

[04:32] not seen it yet?

[04:32] >> I have not seen it. I see it tonight.

[04:34] >> Okay. Jessica's seen it tonight. So,

[04:35] we're not really going to be getting

[04:36] into a review of the movie. We're just

[04:38] going to be talking about the discourse

[04:39] and what we've heard about this movie

[04:40] and the current state of DC Studios.

[04:42] But, I can just say I I had issues and

[04:46] frustrations with this film. You can go

[04:47] to my letter box. I gave it a three out

[04:49] of 10 on my letter box. I know it's

[04:50] really harsh on the film, but I'm still

[04:53] I really like the casting of Millie Alco

[04:55] in general. I like the I I still have a

[04:57] lot of confidence in the state and the

[04:59] future of DC Studios. It's just this

[05:01] script does underserve the character. Is

[05:04] it the worst comic book movie script I

[05:06] can remember? Owen Gleberman, you got to

[05:07] stretch your memory muscles. We can you

[05:09] not remember Morbius?

[05:10] >> I think I mean, yeah, he's not including

[05:12] Morbius. He's not including Ghost Rider

[05:14] 2. He's not he's not keeping in mind

[05:16] like the the Fantastic 4 movie that

[05:18] never came out. Like he's he's just like

[05:21] of recent years.

[05:22] >> Yeah, there have been quite a few really

[05:23] really bad ones. And I think the script

[05:25] has a lot of problems with it. It's not

[05:27] the worst, but it's also not

[05:29] particularly great. And I and I share

[05:31] his frustration. James Gun, you promised

[05:33] us we would be getting rocksolid

[05:35] scripts, and this script is not rock

[05:37] solid. It has major issues. Now, I I

[05:39] think most people will like it more than

[05:41] my three out of 10 review. Um, so I I

[05:44] I've made peace with that. Um, but uh

[05:47] there are just a lot of issues with it.

[05:49] And I think we should track like what we

[05:51] know about this movie. When it was first

[05:53] announced, it was called Supergirl Woman

[05:54] of Tomorrow. That was going to be the

[05:56] title of the movie, but then at some

[05:57] point later, it was just revised to just

[05:58] Supergirl. But still, Peter Saffron and

[06:00] James Gun were like, "This is going to

[06:01] be inspired by Tom Kings and Billy Eve's

[06:04] Woman of Tomorrow's comic storyline."

[06:06] But just in the weeks before the

[06:07] release, when Anna Aguero and um and

[06:10] Craig Gillespie got in front of people

[06:12] asking them questions in the press tour

[06:15] in Junkits, they were like, "Um, I'm

[06:16] just kidding. Actually, we didn't really

[06:18] pull pull it from the graphic novel

[06:20] storyline." Um Craig Gillespie is like,

[06:22] "I didn't even read it. I just looked at

[06:24] Andra's script and got my shot list from

[06:26] that." And then after I got my shot

[06:28] list, I flipped through the comics and I

[06:30] found some images that I kind of liked.

[06:32] Like it was clear that these two

[06:33] creatives really wanted nothing to do

[06:35] with this source material. And you could

[06:37] take issue with Tom King. A lot of

[06:38] people are like, "Good. I don't like Tom

[06:40] King as a writer. That's that's a take

[06:42] that like, okay, fine, we could talk

[06:43] about that." But like, specifically,

[06:45] whatever your issues are with Tom King

[06:47] as a writer in general, this particular

[06:49] graphic novel storyline is praised. It

[06:52] is really wellliked and it's the reason

[06:54] why I think James Gun was excited to

[06:55] greenlight this.

[06:56] >> This script just zigs in so many ways

[06:58] that that comic story line zags. And

[07:00] again, we're not going to review

[07:02] >> we're not going to review the movie

[07:03] here, but one thing that uh Jessica and

[07:05] I did see at SinCon, you remember seeing

[07:07] the panel for Supergirl with with

[07:11] >> uh

[07:11] >> Oh my god. Oh my god.

[07:14] >> That's James Gun calling right now.

[07:15] Don't don't tell them. Don't talk.

[07:17] >> We're not friends.

[07:18] >> We ain't friends. James Gun was not

[07:20] there at Vegas and we didn't want to

[07:22] read too much into that. We knew he was

[07:23] busy with pre-production for Man of

[07:25] Tomorrow, but Peter Saffron was there

[07:27] chatting with Craig Gillespie, Millie

[07:28] AOK, and Jason Mamoa. And it was really

[07:30] kind of like the lowest energy

[07:32] presentation we saw the full week at

[07:34] Cineacon.

[07:35] >> Yeah.

[07:36] >> Yeah. And it's almost it feels like the

[07:38] people who worked on this movie and

[07:40] Warner Brothers knew that there were

[07:41] issues with this.

[07:43] >> Possibly. I think Millie I've been

[07:44] watching a lot of interviews with Millie

[07:46] and she does seem low energy though in

[07:47] other interviews. like it seemed like

[07:49] across the board this is how she acts in

[07:51] interviews which is I'm not saying it's

[07:53] fair it's more so that I haven't had a

[07:55] chance to see her in anything else

[07:57] really except for House of the Dragon in

[07:59] which she wasn't supposed to be as in

[08:00] there as long as she was so we don't

[08:02] really get a lot of time talking to

[08:03] actual Millie Alox and she might just be

[08:05] one of those interviewers that doesn't

[08:07] want to be there she's young too so it's

[08:10] like she hasn't had to deal with it for

[08:11] like 20 years like everyone else has

[08:13] she's like oh this is just disruptive

[08:16] like and I don't care I'm just an actor

[08:17] that acts.

[08:18] >> Yeah. And I I really don't blame her at

[08:20] all. I don't think she is the problem at

[08:22] all with this movie. In fact, she's

[08:23] she's really well cast in this. She just

[08:26] has this innate coolness that like movie

[08:28] stars just kind of magically have. The

[08:30] fact that like she went from House of

[08:32] the Dragon playing young Rainer

[08:33] Targaryen really well, speaking multiple

[08:36] languages to just being like a natural

[08:38] star on the big screen. I'm like, damn,

[08:40] it's cool how some people can just do

[08:42] that. And she does in this movie. It's

[08:44] just the story around her

[08:46] >> is I had issues with it. Um, and I think

[08:49] she was really great in Superman. I

[08:50] think she'll be really great in Mana

[08:52] tomorrow. I think they really cast her

[08:53] well. I don't have a problem with

[08:55] someone's low energy on a press junket.

[08:57] That's it's not all on her to promote

[08:59] this movie. Um, but I have heard some

[09:02] rumors, I don't know if they're true,

[09:04] that like there was an issue with this

[09:07] movie in early 2025 where James Gun

[09:10] working with other people at the studio

[09:11] might have taken it away from Craig

[09:13] Gillespie to do kind of like a death

[09:15] saving throw re-edit of the movie.

[09:17] >> When you watch this movie, you'll see

[09:18] the editing in many sequences is like,

[09:21] whoa, this is an odd

[09:23] >> this is odd. The the movie just feels

[09:25] kind of reassembled in a lot of ways.

[09:27] Um, I haven't seen a single review out

[09:29] there praising the editing of this

[09:31] movie. Interesting.

[09:31] >> Um, I don't know if that's true. That's

[09:33] just a rumor that I've heard. Um, and

[09:36] um, another thing we can report here, if

[09:38] you listen to the Town podcast, they

[09:40] talk about how a lot of PR firms, and

[09:44] you know this, you've worked in PR,

[09:46] they're they're doing paid social media

[09:48] clipping. And this is not necessarily

[09:50] new. They've been doing it for the past

[09:51] few years. Justin Baldon's legal and PR

[09:53] team did this. Um, uh, even like there

[09:57] were like Zack Snyder and when Justice

[10:00] League came out, that was like, you

[10:02] know, 8 years ago, they were doing this

[10:03] back then, too. But clipping refers to

[10:06] um when people will write organic tweets

[10:09] or or post organic um Tik Tok reactions,

[10:12] they'll pay to promote those things

[10:15] through like whole teams of people and

[10:18] bots that are basically reposting that

[10:20] with some of the same talking points.

[10:21] And this I'm probably talking to you and

[10:23] you're like, "Yeah, I know. I've seen

[10:24] that. I've seen where people are just

[10:25] saying the same thing on my TikTok and

[10:27] reals and it's just a person, but

[10:29] they're literally saying the same

[10:30] talking points. Specifically, Warner

[10:33] Brothers has been doing that. I'm not

[10:34] talking about like paid reviews and

[10:36] shills. We'll talk about that in a

[10:38] second, but I'm just talking about like

[10:39] when people are talking about like their

[10:40] hype for this movie. Wow, the hype is

[10:42] crazy. Wow, this movie is going to make

[10:44] $100 million domestic. that might have

[10:46] been originally an or organic tweet that

[10:48] someone or an aggregator wrote, but the

[10:50] reason you're seeing it so much is

[10:53] because that Warner Brothers knows that

[10:55] that is a divisive take that's going to

[10:57] get a lot of engagement. So, they paid

[10:58] for that thing to be amplified. So, that

[11:01] has been happening a lot and it's not

[11:03] new, but it's been happening a lot with

[11:04] Supergirl and it's happening a lot with

[11:06] House of the Dragons new season.

[11:08] [clears throat] Um, now a lot of you are

[11:10] like, "Yeah, well also influencers were

[11:12] paid there. This happens with every

[11:15] movie, every major movie. They do media

[11:17] events, they do meet and greets with the

[11:19] cast, they do set visits, they do um

[11:23] these little uh like um parties or

[11:26] whatever where like certain press or

[11:28] certain Tik Tockers are invited. Uh they

[11:30] do media screenings at film theaters

[11:32] around the LA area. Um that happens.

[11:35] That's not new for Supergirl. They

[11:37] Disney does that. Universal does that.

[11:38] Sony does that. They all do it. They all

[11:40] do it. And it happened again. So, we're

[11:42] not saying like, oh, this was like a ma

[11:44] a matter of desperation, but what I can

[11:46] say is like um talking with the people I

[11:48] talked to at Warner Brothers, they um

[11:51] >> they they seem like more understanding

[11:53] that this movie is going to have a mixed

[11:56] response and they're okay with that. I

[11:58] think they went into this movie knowing

[11:59] that.

[12:00] >> Yeah.

[12:00] >> And they're not trying to like change

[12:02] that narrative. They just want people

[12:04] talking about it at all.

[12:05] >> Yeah. I think naturally you're going to

[12:07] with a Supergirl.

[12:08] >> Yeah. I think they knew that already.

[12:10] And then on top of that, this script

[12:12] also, despite it being written by a

[12:15] woman, despite it having a character

[12:16] like Millie Alak, despite someone who

[12:19] has a an agenda of trying to write

[12:21] strong female characters like James Gun

[12:22] did, I think they I think they missed

[12:24] the mark with this one despite all that.

[12:26] >> Yeah,

[12:27] >> it's it's a shame. I think a lot of us

[12:28] went into wanting to see this. And I

[12:30] think if you're watching this now, maybe

[12:31] you are one of the people who are like,

[12:32] "What are they talking about?" I I love

[12:34] this movie. And I hope there are a lot

[12:36] of you out there. Um, I hope that like

[12:38] Hollywood doesn't learn the wrong

[12:39] lessons from this, but I do think, uh,

[12:42] just to kind of give you guys a sense of

[12:44] where we're at right now, um, in the

[12:47] opening weekend, uh, or it was like the

[12:49] the release, uh, at the red carpet, um,

[12:52] we had an executive producer on this

[12:54] movie who confirmed that Man of Tomorrow

[12:58] is shooting right now in Atlanta and

[12:59] that Millie Alco will return as

[13:01] Supergirl in Man of Tomorrow. And he

[13:03] also said um uh the way this movie ends,

[13:06] you're going to see where she ends up.

[13:07] If you've seen the movie now, you kind

[13:09] of get a bit of a sense um of like where

[13:12] we'll see her next, but they said that

[13:13] there's going to be another DCU movie

[13:15] after Man of Tomorrow that Supergirl

[13:17] will be a big part of as well. So, Man

[13:19] of Tomorrow, summer 2027. They're saying

[13:21] in summer 2028, there's going to be

[13:23] another DCU Supergirl movie that she's

[13:26] going to be part of it.

[13:27] >> Um and uh they said this is Lars P.

[13:30] Winther. He's an executive producer on

[13:31] this movie at DC Studios. And he said

[13:33] that he and James Gunn and Peter Saffron

[13:35] actually met with David Ellison. He said

[13:37] that David Ellison came to Trill Studios

[13:38] in Atlanta. That's where they shoot all

[13:40] their movies that James directs. Uh and

[13:42] he says David Ellison came to Atlanta.

[13:44] We showed him everything and we're

[13:45] having discussions with him. He said,

[13:46] quote, "He's pretty open to what we're

[13:48] doing. We do have a slate and a lot of

[13:51] it obviously Clayface is already coming

[13:53] out. We already have the Lanterns TV

[13:54] show on those things. The trains left

[13:56] the station so we're good." but he's a

[13:59] big fan and he's been great with us.

[14:01] He's giving us kind of what we want. So

[14:04] far, everything's good. So, despite

[14:06] whatever your takes are on Supergirl,

[14:08] the movies and shows that have already

[14:10] been shot or are in production,

[14:12] >> that includes Lanterns coming out in

[14:14] August, August [clears throat] 16th on

[14:15] HBO, Clayface coming October 26th to

[14:18] theaters, Man of Tomorrow coming July

[14:20] 7th, 2027 next summer. Uh, the Batman

[14:23] coming October 1st, 2027. And then and

[14:27] then that's like everything that's for

[14:29] sure coming out. The question will be

[14:32] this other DCU movie that they want

[14:34] Supergirl to be a part of in 2028

[14:36] >> up in the air and then all the other

[14:38] titles that they've announced before,

[14:39] including the Authority,

[14:41] um, a Wonder Woman movie.

[14:43] >> Oh, well, I think Creature Commando

[14:45] season 2, I think the animated ones are

[14:47] still moving forward. Creature Commandos

[14:48] and Dynamic Duo are still coming. But

[14:50] it's like if this movie really

[14:52] underperforms, you may you're gonna see

[14:54] a lot of discourse that like I know

[14:56] Grace [snorts] Randolph was already said

[14:57] like DC Studios needs to take Wonder

[14:59] Woman away from Anna Aguera. I think

[15:01] that's premature.

[15:02] >> Um I but I can understand there are

[15:04] major script problems in this. I think

[15:06] like this isn't the immediate success

[15:09] that uh the studio and the fans are

[15:11] going to be that excited to see the

[15:12] screenwriter be kind of like James Gun's

[15:14] main go-to screenwriter other than

[15:16] himself. Yeah, it's unfortunate that you

[15:18] like because I don't agree with Grace

[15:21] Randolph, but I also don't disagree in

[15:23] the terms of like Wonder Woman and

[15:25] Supergirl are two top like tiers for

[15:29] what it seems like they were already

[15:30] structuring it around Superman, Batman,

[15:33] Supergirl, and Wonder Woman. So, I'm

[15:35] like, okay, of these four, if the same

[15:37] girl that did Supergirl is going to do

[15:39] Wonder Woman, we need to talk about it.

[15:41] Or at least maybe she learns from the

[15:43] situation. I don't know. It's hard

[15:44] because it's like I haven't seen the

[15:45] movie yet. But I'm also like

[15:48] I feel like being like James Gunn the

[15:52] script sucked and you said you looked at

[15:54] it. I don't think we should be

[15:56] immediately putting James Gun to like

[15:58] the highest standard of screenwriting. I

[16:00] don't think he's like the greatest

[16:01] screenwriter of all time. And so I could

[16:03] see him seeing the script and being like

[16:04] this could be adjusted. This should be

[16:06] adjusted. And it's still being not a

[16:08] great script.

[16:08] >> Yeah, it's his he wears a lot of hats as

[16:11] the head of DC Studios. It's his job to

[16:13] manage the franchise. the creative

[16:15] direction of the franchise and like that

[16:18] includes a lot of things. It includes

[16:20] like managing fan expectation. It

[16:22] includes like in his the way he's carved

[16:24] out his job to direct his own films and

[16:26] write his own films. Sometimes he's even

[16:28] talked a lot. I think that's why Owen

[16:30] Gberman's like uh indictment is kind of

[16:33] valid because James Gunn has put himself

[16:34] out there a lot saying like I give notes

[16:36] on everything. We're doing things

[16:38] different here at DC Studios than the

[16:40] way Marvel did them. You're not going to

[16:41] see the same superhero fatigue in the

[16:43] way we do it. So, like when this script

[16:45] does get a mixed reception from critics,

[16:46] it's like he does have the answer for

[16:48] >> I'm confused because I'm like, did we

[16:50] think that he was the greatest person of

[16:52] all time?

[16:52] >> I guess that's I guess that's what I'm

[16:54] confused with. It's just cuz I'm like

[16:55] James Gunner has great movies 100%. But

[16:57] I also love his movies that are like

[17:00] they're they're great movies, but I

[17:02] would never be like, you know what, this

[17:03] is the greatest script I've ever seen in

[17:05] my entire life. And so that's why I'm

[17:07] like, why are we holding him to the

[17:09] standard that he is the gold standard of

[17:11] screenwriting? And I'm like I think

[17:13] that's the only part where I'm confused.

[17:15] Like I don't think anyone's going to get

[17:16] to uh be best for everybody. Even like

[17:19] Christopher Nolan writes [ __ ] that you

[17:20] guys hate. But it's like

[17:22] >> I I we're all going to have grievances

[17:24] with someone. And I do think that my

[17:26] personality my personally with James

[17:27] Gunn I'm like yeah I love watching your

[17:29] movies. They are so fun. I can rewatch

[17:31] them all the time. But I never looked at

[17:32] it as I look at Logan.

[17:34] >> So I'm like

[17:36] >> referring to the 2017 Logan film.

[17:38] >> What what Logan do you think I'm talking

[17:39] about?

[17:39] >> My son.

[17:40] >> Your son. Well, nothing can nothing can

[17:42] be like Logan Voss. Nothing is going to

[17:44] be like that. That is the best thing in

[17:47] the world. [laughter]

[17:48] >> No one can come up with that.

[17:48] >> But no, no, I hear what you're saying. I

[17:50] think um we we should be very careful

[17:51] holding him to too high of a superlative

[17:53] status. I do think James Gunn is like up

[17:56] there with the best like franchise

[17:58] worldbuilders,

[17:59] >> franchise world building.

[18:00] >> And and I think that is something where

[18:02] the Supergirl movie struggles. I don't

[18:03] think it's outrightly bad. And one big

[18:05] thing I disagree with Owen Gberman on,

[18:06] he's like really critical of like the

[18:08] the puppetry of this movie, the

[18:10] practical puppetry. He was saying like I

[18:12] disagree with the takes that uh cinema

[18:14] changed in a negative way when Star Wars

[18:17] and ET and these other and Jaws came

[18:19] out. Um because he's but he's like I do

[18:21] kind of agree that too many movies are

[18:23] trying to do the mostly Cantina scene

[18:25] and that might have had an adverse

[18:27] impact on the industry. I think really

[18:29] he's throwing shade at the Mandalorian

[18:30] and Grou a little bit when he says that.

[18:32] I think old man Gleberman's like, I

[18:34] hated having to sit through all these

[18:35] puppetry. I love practical puppetry in

[18:37] movies.

[18:37] >> Yeah, same.

[18:38] >> I was born in 1988. It's the only world

[18:40] that I know and I'm I'm grateful for it.

[18:43] And I like that part of Supergirl. I I

[18:45] like that preferred to the CGI [ __ ]

[18:48] that we've seen too much of. But uh but

[18:49] I think what he's saying is that um in

[18:51] terms of franchise world building um

[18:54] like the tone of this movie does not

[18:56] have the same kind of open-ended feel

[18:58] that Guardians of the Galaxy did.

[19:00] instead. Like I think critics are really

[19:02] struggling for an analog and they keep

[19:04] reaching out to Mad Max in terms of like

[19:06] the the dirt and the soot and the um the

[19:10] punk feel of it, the leather of it all.

[19:13] And I don't even think Mad Max is an

[19:14] accurate description for it. Maybe Heavy

[19:16] Metal Heavy Metal might the animated

[19:18] heavy metal uh movie from the 80s might

[19:20] be a good Oh, you should watch it. It's

[19:22] insane. [laughter] It's an insane movie.

[19:24] >> Even that I'm like even if we were like,

[19:26] "Oh, you're used to doing these." I'm

[19:27] like, "Yeah, but then you hired Anna."

[19:28] So, it's like you're going to have Anna

[19:30] write a Guardians movie or you're going

[19:31] to have Anna write this kind of movie.

[19:32] Anna's going to write her own type of

[19:34] movie. We can get mad at how Anna wrote,

[19:36] but it's like you guys put faith in her.

[19:38] So, what the hell's going on here?

[19:39] [laughter]

[19:40] What the hell's going on here?

[19:41] >> I I I think there um like there's going

[19:44] to be forces at Warner Brothers who put

[19:46] pressure on James Gunn and Peter Saffron

[19:47] to be like, get a new writer in here

[19:49] because she's unproven. And this is just

[19:52] something I know from like follow I used

[19:54] to try to be a screenwriter myself. I

[19:55] listened to every episode of Script

[19:57] Notes for a while. I was on an episode

[19:58] of Script Notes and listening to Craig

[20:00] and John talk, they show that like if if

[20:02] you're trying to write this type of

[20:04] franchise

[20:05] >> um franchise film, your movie has to be

[20:08] a hit. Your movie like it doesn't matter

[20:11] if like the director botched it. Like,

[20:13] and this happens all the time. There

[20:14] happens where like the script is subpar,

[20:16] but like the movie made a [ __ ] ton of

[20:19] money. Aquaman 2018 Aquaman, that script

[20:22] isn't that great. But because like James

[20:24] Juan made a billion dollar movie with

[20:26] it, all the screenwriters are gonna get

[20:28] work afterwards.

[20:28] >> That's the shitty thing though is like

[20:29] which I mean I'm sure she already takes

[20:31] this into consideration. She has a lot

[20:33] more hurdles and obstacles than Aquaman

[20:35] does. I will also say Aquaman was a very

[20:38] low bar [laughter] for the for the DC.

[20:40] It was like, okay, I'm I'm hating

[20:42] everything that's coming out. And then

[20:43] Aquaman was just fun. Aquaman was so

[20:45] much fun. It was so much fun. Um and

[20:47] also, oh my god, that merch. That merch

[20:49] immediately. Yes, 100%. But Supergirl

[20:52] already has so many limitations and they

[20:54] already didn't like package a lot of

[20:55] their press stuff that great. So it's

[20:57] like what am I excited for? And I don't

[20:59] know what's happening. So I'm like damn

[21:01] girl. But you are right where it's like

[21:03] unfortunately these movies do have to be

[21:04] a hit. I don't care if it's like bad and

[21:06] like great for families but it has to be

[21:08] a hit. And if it's not I I feel like

[21:11] with Supergirl you weren't going to

[21:12] really appease for a family. Like

[21:14] families aren't going to see Supergirl

[21:16] unfortunately. But like you need to

[21:17] appease to something. you need to you

[21:19] need to have something that's I don't

[21:20] know I don't know again I have not seen

[21:22] this movie um I will also say I think

[21:24] Owen's take is very valid and great

[21:27] >> and I always go back to what Joe says um

[21:29] from the house of our podcast of the

[21:31] ring

[21:31] >> Joanna Robinson

[21:32] >> Joanna Robinson that's like it's up to

[21:34] you to find the critics that really

[21:36] resonate with you and if this person's

[21:38] entire scathing review is like to you

[21:40] the viewer audience person listening

[21:42] right now is like I would never feel

[21:44] this way about like this than this guy

[21:46] that's completely okay that is 100% %

[21:48] okay like that there there's a reason

[21:50] why you probably don't you listen to him

[21:51] but you would listen to Grace Randolph

[21:52] or you would go somewhere else like

[21:54] that's the whole point of being like a

[21:55] very a lot of critics uh Robert I think

[21:59] kind of feeds into like a lot of

[22:00] people's consensus but I think going to

[22:02] find the person that writes reviews for

[22:05] movies like this in ways that you like

[22:06] you can find it um and they probably

[22:08] will be like I don't think it's as bad

[22:10] you know how many reviews I read from

[22:12] other black people that were like

[22:13] sinners is a mockery

[22:14] >> like there was a lot of people that were

[22:16] black that hated sinners and there's a

[22:17] black people that love sinners. It's

[22:18] like it it takes you having to figure

[22:20] out who you're who who you who you ride

[22:22] with.

[22:23] >> Totally. And I I do have to defend Owen

[22:25] Gberman. There were some incorrect quote

[22:27] tweets and takes saying that he was the

[22:28] person at Variety who [ __ ] on sinners

[22:31] and said it was going to underperform.

[22:32] No, Owenberman. Owen Gberman loved

[22:35] Sinners and he was one of the people at

[22:37] Variety who sang its praises and was

[22:38] championing the work that Ryan Cougler

[22:40] did. Um, it was some box office

[22:42] reporting, but it was someone else, but

[22:44] it was a variety.

[22:45] >> It was a variety box office reporter who

[22:48] underpredicted the success of the movie

[22:50] and and she just got it wrong. She

[22:52] clocked it wrong. But I think a lot of

[22:54] people were surprised at how well that

[22:55] movie did and we're all happy that it

[22:57] did well. U but yes, uh Owen was not one

[23:00] of the people and also Owen was one of

[23:01] the people who loved Superman. He he

[23:03] didn't think it was a perfect film, but

[23:04] I think he said James Gun what he

[23:06] cringed at. And I again I disagree with

[23:08] this take as well from Owen's review

[23:09] that um that the whole scene with Clark

[23:13] and Lois the the 11minute argument

[23:16] scene.

[23:16] >> I love that scene is my favorite scene

[23:18] in the in the apartment when they're

[23:19] going back and forth.

[23:20] >> He said that he loved the scene as well,

[23:21] but he cringed when he when they started

[23:22] talking about what punk rock means.

[23:25] >> They're cartoony.

[23:26] >> It's a it's a comic book movie, but it's

[23:27] an actual comic book made into a movie.

[23:29] I I love this.

[23:30] >> I didn't cringe. I I understood what

[23:31] James Gun was trying to do with it. And

[23:33] that's kind of his deeper theme of the

[23:34] movie. And I really love the way that

[23:36] came back in the final scene of the

[23:37] film. But I understand I understood the

[23:39] validity of of what Owen was trying to

[23:41] say and that like

[23:43] >> the he was trying to set up his argument

[23:44] for Supergirl and that Superman

[23:48] >> uh was like this nerdy boy scout trying

[23:50] to say like this is what punk rock means

[23:52] to me. But the moment you call something

[23:54] punk rock, you kind of kill the punk of

[23:56] it.

[23:56] >> Yeah, you kill the punk.

[23:57] >> Um he's not wrong about that either cuz

[23:59] like no way Sid Vicious would ever allow

[24:01] himself to be called punk rock. he's

[24:03] just doing something else with the Sex

[24:04] Pistols. Um, similarly,

[24:07] uh, the Supergirl movie, it kind of

[24:10] wears punk rock on its sleeve too much

[24:12] with all of its needle drops. I I do

[24:14] think, um, the the general strategy is

[24:17] still overall worth continuing at DC

[24:21] Studios. Craig Gillespie has talked

[24:22] about this in interviews, how James Gunn

[24:24] told him that um, every he wants every

[24:27] movie to feel like its own graphic novel

[24:29] as opposed to something that all has to

[24:31] interconnect. And so, like, if Supergirl

[24:33] doesn't work out as well as it did, but

[24:35] if Lantern still is like one of the

[24:37] coolest HBO mystery box series you've

[24:39] ever seen, the the health of the DC

[24:41] Studios slate is still intact. You know,

[24:44] >> I think they can afford to have some

[24:46] drops, especially this early in their

[24:48] career. Uh there's only been two movies,

[24:49] you guys. So, it's like, yeah, one is

[24:51] there's no way they're going to make 12

[24:53] movies and all of them are great.

[24:54] >> Yeah. I and and for anyone saying that

[24:56] it was a miscalculation to have a

[24:58] Supergirl movie second, no, I I I

[25:00] [clears throat] still think it was a

[25:02] smart overall strategic decision to

[25:04] follow up Superman with Supergirl. I

[25:06] mean, the way Millie Alcott comes into

[25:08] that movie at the end of Superman is is

[25:10] still really fun. It's just the and the

[25:12] casting of the character again and the

[25:14] whole idea of Krypto really cool. I I

[25:17] get the idea to follow it up. It's just

[25:19] like this particular story didn't work

[25:21] out. It's great. And uh and we'll we'll

[25:24] hear more about like the problems with

[25:26] the creative direction of this movie in

[25:28] the weeks ahead. But

[25:29] >> I I'd also argue that I don't think

[25:30] you'd forget her scene in Superman for

[25:32] sure. Like it was very great. It's very

[25:34] loud, very boisterous. But I also think

[25:36] like coming right after Superman makes

[25:38] more sense because of that. If it came

[25:40] out 2 years later, you'd be like, "Oh

[25:41] yeah, what was she doing? She was a

[25:43] drunk person that flew into like his his

[25:45] house. Like who was she again?" It it

[25:48] makes sense to come right after the

[25:49] other. That way we don't lose that same

[25:50] like heat that came off of Superman. And

[25:52] and it wasn't even like one year. It was

[25:55] only 11 months, right? Cuz Superman came

[25:58] out in July, like the first week of

[25:59] July.

[25:59] >> Yeah.

[26:00] >> So, yeah, it wasn't it wasn't a full

[26:01] year, but it it's still fresh in your

[26:02] memory where she was in Superman.

[26:04] >> The um the best parts of Supergirl in my

[26:07] opinion are the whole like DC mythology

[26:09] stuff we get into when we go back to

[26:11] Krypton, go back to Argo City, when

[26:13] she's interacting with her cousin Call.

[26:15] I'm like this. I love living in this

[26:17] world right now. this is this is like

[26:19] the exact DC Studios vision that I want.

[26:22] So that's why I'm kind of still

[26:23] optimistic about the state of DC

[26:24] Studios. I'm I'm willing to still um see

[26:28] what like Lanterns has cooking up for

[26:30] us. I think I'm really excited for Man

[26:31] of Tomorrow. I'm really excited for Matt

[26:33] Reeves the Batman. Um, but I do think

[26:36] like if if Clayface underperforms and if

[26:39] like and if James Gunn can't get because

[26:41] I think the the ultimate test for James

[26:43] Gun as a franchise studio head is can a

[26:47] project at DC Studios take off without

[26:49] James Gunn being the writer director of

[26:51] it. And so Clayface I think is is an

[26:53] important test and I think Lanterns is

[26:55] an important test.

[26:56] >> I think Supergirl was important in that

[26:57] regard.

[26:58] >> Yeah.

[26:59] >> Yeah. And so like if you have three

[27:01] strikes, if if if Clayface is like

[27:04] considered a misfire where they're like,

[27:05] "What were they thinking with this?" If

[27:07] Lanterns just feels like a really bad

[27:10] kind of like streaming series where it

[27:13] really just feels like it was re-shot,

[27:16] rewritten on the fly. And if you have

[27:19] like I think we'll know in October,

[27:21] early November, right around the time

[27:23] when the Paramount Warner Brothers deal

[27:24] is going to close. Like if all three of

[27:26] those are

[27:28] >> bad,

[27:28] >> considered bad by the general public.

[27:30] >> No, but he shouldn't be working on them.

[27:31] And not only because of his time,

[27:33] because he literally cannot do

[27:35] everything. Also because I think he

[27:37] benefits in the realm that he did like

[27:39] him doing Superman made sense. He was

[27:41] like, and he even talked about how it

[27:43] came from where he was with his dad. And

[27:45] we see that, we hear that. The the feel

[27:47] of this man was in Superman. But I don't

[27:50] need to see him doing a horror version

[27:53] of Clayface. I don't know if he can. I

[27:54] don't want to see him doing an all women

[27:57] the mascara. Like I don't know if he

[27:59] can. I don't need to see him do

[28:00] lanterns. I want to see two people that

[28:02] work with detective shows do lanterns.

[28:04] It's like I do think he would shoot

[28:05] himself in the foot if he takes on too

[28:06] many genres that he's not used to doing.

[28:08] >> Mhm.

[28:08] >> And that's why I'm like I don't even

[28:10] care if we get four strikes. You don't

[28:12] need to shove yourself into every

[28:13] project.

[28:14] >> Well, what the genre

[28:15] >> because the time

[28:16] >> James Gun has proven he can do comedy.

[28:19] He can do uh just kind of a general

[28:21] crowd-pleasing superhero film. He can do

[28:22] horror. He's done a couple different

[28:24] genres himself really well. But you're

[28:26] right, Paradise Lost L lost is going to

[28:28] be like a Game of Thrones type show or

[28:30] House of the Dragons type show in The

[28:31] Mascira, so that's still in development.

[28:33] >> I also think the horror he does is still

[28:35] different. There's 400 subg genres to

[28:37] horror and it looks like Clayfaces of

[28:38] like a man that can't identify himself.

[28:40] And I'm like, yeah, could you do that?

[28:42] Like he puts himself into everything he

[28:44] writes and I love that. That's what I

[28:45] loved about Superman so much. I don't

[28:47] have a relationship with my father, but

[28:49] I was like this I can see it and I and

[28:51] this is so sad and emotional, but I'm

[28:53] like do you have that same kind of

[28:55] emotion in you for like being invisible

[28:57] or just not being noticed or wanting to

[28:58] be noticed or not being who you are? Do

[29:01] you have imposter syndrome? Whatever. I

[29:03] bet he does. I bet I bet he does and he

[29:05] doesn't. I feel like he's gotten his ego

[29:06] stroked a lot with all of his projects

[29:08] recently, but I'm like

[29:09] >> I think the events of summer 2018

[29:12] they will never come back because he

[29:13] keeps making hits.

[29:14] >> Oh, sure, sure, sure. [laughter] I'm

[29:15] just saying like he's gone through those

[29:17] feelings of like too much celebrity

[29:18] >> attention.

[29:19] >> So he might do that but it's like I

[29:20] don't think he can cut his face off and

[29:22] be like I'm a different man. Um

[29:24] >> he did cut off his hair and say I have a

[29:25] different hair color.

[29:26] >> He's like I got white hair now. Um but

[29:29] with the mascara and like and also not

[29:31] to be this person it's like those

[29:32] projects I do I would want Supergirl

[29:34] written by a woman just so she could do

[29:36] she understands like this approach. But

[29:38] I also do think I don't know or

[29:40] Supergirl. I will say I have not seen

[29:42] Supergirl yet. But from what I heard

[29:43] about it or what I've seen about it, I

[29:45] was like, "Yeah, if this is a sad girl

[29:47] story, I kind of want to see it from a

[29:49] sad like I want a girl to write it. I

[29:50] want to know like cuz she'll be able to

[29:52] empathize in ways that he can't."

[29:54] >> Totally. Totally. And and I think you're

[29:56] you you are seeing some takes out there

[29:58] that like there's going to be some

[29:59] frantic calls to Matt Reeves into Greta

[30:01] Gerwig this weekend. Greta Gerwig is not

[30:04] going to be the person to come save the

[30:05] woman. You think they're going to do?

[30:06] Well, she would [ __ ] That's what

[30:07] they're saying. I think she would tear

[30:09] that [ __ ] up.

[30:10] >> Oh my god, dude. Put her on.

[30:12] >> But she's not the only female writer in

[30:13] Hollywood.

[30:14] >> 100%. But let me see how she does

[30:15] fantasy and the lion the witch in the

[30:17] wardrobe and then we'll talk. Or Narnia

[30:19] and then we'll talk.

[30:20] >> If Narnia is pristine, I would probably

[30:23] have a lot of faith in her doing Wonder

[30:25] Woman. Oh, and the mascara. Sorry. This

[30:28] is just Oh, that [ __ ] would eat it up.

[30:30] [laughter] She isn't the only woman

[30:31] writer though. She That is also true.

[30:33] Um, and hopefully the success of Barbie

[30:35] led will lead Warner Brothers and these

[30:38] other studios to say, "Hey, women can

[30:40] write good successful billion-dollar

[30:43] femaleled stories."

[30:44] >> It does suck that Anna maybe [ __ ] up

[30:46] this project cuz I think that is

[30:47] unfortunately how Hollywood does work a

[30:49] lot. And they don't want to group you

[30:50] all together, but they will be like,

[30:52] "Well, she didn't do a good job on this

[30:54] one. Should we get someone that's more

[30:56] experienced for the next one?" Also, who

[30:58] has experience writing a superhero movie

[31:01] to this caliber? That That's Supergirl.

[31:02] We know who she is. Everybody knows who

[31:04] she is.

[31:04] >> Deborah Snider.

[31:06] >> Oh, I do love Sn Oh my god. I love

[31:07] That's my girl. That's my girl. She

[31:10] caught a villain. I love her. We met

[31:12] her. No, wait. Maybe that was me and

[31:14] Brandon. Me and Brandon met her. She's

[31:15] always walking around Burbank.

[31:16] >> Uh Patty Jenkins.

[31:18] >> Patty. Oh, my girl. I mean, she's Patty

[31:20] Jenkins.

[31:20] >> Wonder Woman 84 is what?

[31:22] >> Okay. No, shut up. That that there was

[31:23] too many hands in the pot for that

[31:24] movie. That movie was horrible. But let

[31:25] me tell you, the first one, I loved it.

[31:28] But I also don't think she had a great

[31:29] time coming back. remember because she

[31:31] came back to James Gunn about something.

[31:33] >> I don't remember.

[31:33] >> Remember remember when she was tweeting

[31:35] about it or something? She was like she

[31:36] came to pitch something and they were

[31:37] like, "Yeah, we just don't really see

[31:38] the vision." And I was like, "Patty,

[31:41] my girl, let's put Shondaanda Rimes in

[31:43] there." [laughter]

[31:44] >> Shondaanda will fix it.

[31:45] >> Shondaa will WRITE THE MOST DRAMATIC

[31:47] [ __ ] PIECE. [laughter] No one will

[31:50] understand it. It will just be a

[31:51] heart-wrenching love tale.

[31:54] >> Yeah.

[31:54] >> Nasa would be great. I want Nicasa to

[31:56] direct something for them. I would love

[31:57] her to do a hot girl.

[31:59] >> Yeah. Um, that would be great. Yeah,

[32:00] there is a lot of there is a lot of

[32:02] women, but I also I I don't know. I I'm

[32:04] maybe I'm just too nice today. I feel

[32:05] bad for Anna.

[32:07] >> I feel really bad. It sucks. It would

[32:09] suck. I would be like, "Don't show me

[32:11] the news."

[32:11] >> I just want to know. I kind of want to

[32:13] know what happened with this script.

[32:14] Like,

[32:15] >> you could probably look it up and find

[32:16] the script somewhere, right? Actually,

[32:17] maybe not.

[32:18] >> I don't know. I don't know. Well, I

[32:20] mean, the story will be told at some

[32:21] point, but it's just like whatever.

[32:24] Again, whatever you feel about Tom King,

[32:26] that woman of tomorrow graphic novel is

[32:28] like a really great blueprint. Like, you

[32:30] don't need to

[32:32] >> change it. I think this keeps happening

[32:34] where they get these screenwriters who

[32:36] don't really have a relationship with

[32:37] the source material, but the studio head

[32:39] has a relationship with the source

[32:40] material. And the writer's like, I just

[32:42] want work. Sure, I'll do whatever you

[32:44] say. And then they don't really give a

[32:45] [ __ ] about this graphic novel. And they

[32:47] just kind of read it and they're like,

[32:49] I'm going to do my own thing. It's like,

[32:50] no, no, no, no, no. your job is to just

[32:52] write a screenplay version of this.

[32:54] >> But there's no way you can make them, I

[32:55] guess, do that, I guess, right? You

[32:58] can't be like, I told you to read that

[33:00] source material and stick to it.

[33:01] >> I mean, there's certain things that Anna

[33:03] does with this script of like shortening

[33:05] the timeline of it. That's fine. Giving

[33:06] the movie a ticking clock of 3 days

[33:08] versus several months, totally fine.

[33:10] Even changing the exact resolution of

[33:12] how they deal with Creme at the end of

[33:14] the story due to, you know, if you're

[33:16] trying to have these characters come

[33:17] back in future titles, you can't really

[33:18] do that. But just the they [ __ ] up the

[33:22] character of Crim in this movie. It is

[33:25] awful. Like like he's unwatchable in the

[33:28] movie and it's it's part of the Matias's

[33:31] performance. The way the character is

[33:33] written is unwatchable. Um I even think

[33:36] like the character of Ruthie Marie Null

[33:39] is like underwritten in this final

[33:42] script and she has such great narration,

[33:45] this true grit narration that they just

[33:47] decided no, we don't need narration.

[33:48] It's like if you want to make this movie

[33:50] different, why not just have a young

[33:51] girl like Scout Finch in Tequila

[33:53] Mockingbird narrate over it? You could

[33:55] do that and it would feel different and

[33:57] it would be so cool and it would be true

[33:58] to the graphic novel

[33:59] >> and true to uh Haley Steinfeld in the

[34:02] True Grit movie. It would be great and

[34:05] they didn't do it and I just don't

[34:06] understand why. I I I don't know if I

[34:09] ever get five minutes with James Gun or

[34:11] Anna Agraa in any junket in the future.

[34:13] I kind of just want to spend the five

[34:14] minutes just be like, can I ask you some

[34:16] hard questions about why you wrote this

[34:18] this way?

[34:19] >> And I'll probably never get that chance,

[34:21] but like someone can one of these

[34:23] influencers or Tik Tockers who does get

[34:25] an interview with them, please, for the

[34:26] love of God, ask them some questions

[34:28] about why some unflattering questions

[34:30] about why they chose to write the

[34:31] script.

[34:32] >> They'll lose the opportunity.

[34:33] >> No, they'll never get a chance. Instead,

[34:34] they're going to be like, "Let's play

[34:36] this game of like

[34:37] >> who would you kiss?" Superman,

[34:38] [clears throat]

[34:39] your cousin. [laughter]

[34:41] >> Um, yeah,

[34:42] >> I'm being kind of hard on it, but it's

[34:43] just like you had a win. You had an easy

[34:46] win, and for whatever reason, they chose

[34:48] to like make it hard for themselves.

[34:50] >> Do you think it felt like one of those

[34:51] scripts that was like, I don't want to

[34:52] take from the source material cuz this

[34:54] is still like my project. I want to

[34:55] write my own kind of

[34:57] >> which is which is ego. If you're a work

[34:58] for hire for a major franchise, just get

[35:01] the project made and make it successful

[35:03] with the nerds who are going to watch

[35:04] it.

[35:04] >> What works what I guess what hits

[35:05] harder, hearing people be like, "This is

[35:07] a horrible script." Or hearing you just

[35:09] copied the comic.

[35:12] >> You just copied the comic has worked for

[35:14] Marvel Studios for 15 years.

[35:15] >> But this is not Marvel Studios. This is

[35:17] Anna. [laughter]

[35:18] >> So I I I guess it's not I know it can

[35:20] still be selfish 100%. I'm not

[35:21] disagreeing with you at all. Uh, it's

[35:23] just I guess going in there as a writer.

[35:25] Do you And this is like this is it's so

[35:28] funny because this is how I feel about

[35:28] Survivor people and people on Rupaul's

[35:30] Drag Race. I'm like you made it on the

[35:32] show. That was half the battle. If you

[35:33] leave first, you did you did it. Why are

[35:35] you crying that you're going home like

[35:37] as number five? And it's LIKE BECAUSE I

[35:39] WORKED HARD TO GET HERE. SO I'M LIKE A

[35:40] writer like her going in there and then

[35:43] being like I'm not going to take

[35:45] everything from that source. I want this

[35:46] movie to be my Supergirl movie. And I I

[35:49] am like yeah that is kind of selfish.

[35:50] I'm like I get I guess what I'm saying

[35:52] is I understand where she would be

[35:54] coming from in that regard, but this is

[35:55] also a movie that has to be a hit. Yeah.

[35:57] >> And you have to take those L's for those

[35:58] hits. And I don't think you would lose

[36:00] work making a hit that is just copying a

[36:02] comic. You can go back to doing whatever

[36:04] you want to do on the side that is just

[36:06] you. You could write your own piece and

[36:07] then fund it or do whatever the hell you

[36:09] want. But I do think for like something

[36:10] this big, maybe we just need that

[36:12] consensus that like when it's this big,

[36:14] you have to go from the comics. I don't

[36:15] give a [ __ ] Like you have to go back to

[36:17] what was good. You have to identify what

[36:19] the fans really really care about from

[36:21] the source material in this take on the

[36:22] character. And we're not just saying

[36:24] copy the comic. We're talking about

[36:25] adaptation. And you know, I should

[36:26] clarify what I just said. Marvel Studios

[36:28] actually has rarely copied a to a

[36:31] comics. They often make their the Russo

[36:33] brothers love making their own kind of

[36:34] story. But this is like the challenge

[36:36] with this is why they give Oscars for

[36:38] adapting a source material into a

[36:39] screenplay. The best I think the best

[36:42] example of this was uh Fran and Philippo

[36:44] scripts for the Lord of the Rings

[36:46] trilogy. um Peter Jackson with those two

[36:49] women are really true Tolken scholars

[36:51] who have read all the appendices.

[36:52] They've read the smearillion. So when

[36:54] they're making choices to adapt the

[36:57] volumes of Fellowship, Two Towers, and

[37:00] King into those three movies, they are

[37:03] when they're filling in gaps, they're

[37:04] filling in gaps from other things Tolken

[37:06] wrote over here or other themes that

[37:08] Tolken was developing in other places

[37:10] that Christopher Tolken was developing.

[37:12] So, like they clearly have a lifelong

[37:14] passion for the source material and

[37:16] that's what makes a really well- adapted

[37:18] screenplays win their Oscars. Yeah. And

[37:20] and I think you can't just have like

[37:22] it'd be one thing if an Aguero was like,

[37:23] you know, I didn't have an attachment to

[37:25] um

[37:26] >> to the Tom King script, but I did have

[37:28] the attachment to these other eras of

[37:30] Supergirl or what Helen Slater did or

[37:32] the CW.

[37:33] >> But I think it was like already too

[37:34] late, right? Cuz James and them were

[37:35] like we're taking from this.

[37:37] >> They I don't know what I don't I really

[37:39] don't know what her initial pitch was.

[37:41] Um, but like you even see that with

[37:43] James Gun. Like James Gun has been very

[37:45] clear with Superman. He's like, I I like

[37:47] Smallville. You're going to see

[37:49] Smallville DNA in my DCU. We have no

[37:51] problem with that because it's like,

[37:52] okay, well, you did have your gateway

[37:54] into Superman either through the Silver

[37:56] Age comics, either through Grant

[37:58] Morrison runs or whoever's runs, the

[38:01] All-Star Superman run obviously was big

[38:03] for him. Uh, even if it was Superman

[38:05] animated series, like I loved how uh

[38:07] Matt Reeves had said with the Batman,

[38:09] he's like, "I liked Batman the animated

[38:11] series in the '90s." It's like, "Fuck

[38:12] yeah, dude. I want to see your vision

[38:14] for this." You know?

[38:15] >> So, you're saying like it's maybe a part

[38:16] of Anna being like, "I don't actually

[38:18] like this Tom King run."

[38:20] >> You can't just have a good pitch is what

[38:21] I'm saying. You you have to have you you

[38:24] if you're going to be adapting this

[38:26] source material in which there are going

[38:28] to be scholars of it watching these

[38:30] films, judging it, you yourself have to

[38:32] be a scholar. And the reason I say that

[38:33] is we know of plenty of screenwriters,

[38:35] working screenwriters, who are scholars

[38:37] of this source material and are not

[38:39] getting this work. And I don't know why

[38:40] they're getting passed on for just some

[38:43] person who was in the original cast of

[38:45] Hamilton.

[38:46] >> I was about to be meaner for a second

[38:48] there, [laughter] but like

[38:49] >> I think that's a very

[38:50] >> I think James Gun I think James Gun just

[38:52] gets wooed by people who are actors

[38:53] turned screenwriters because that's who

[38:55] what he was.

[38:57] >> I see it. I see it. Yeah. I also feel

[39:00] like I don't know. It might be hard. It

[39:02] might be hard getting those writers. You

[39:04] get like, "Okay, here's a bucket of a

[39:06] bunch of people we can hire from." And

[39:07] then you're like, "Oh, I like this a

[39:09] lot. Let's give it to her." Like, I feel

[39:11] like that's just usually how it goes.

[39:12] There's a bunch of great screenwriters

[39:14] 100%. But it's also like who you know,

[39:17] >> right? It is completely like whoever's

[39:20] agents got to send the like here's my

[39:22] person. Like I'm sure watch it have been

[39:24] like any there's probably someone that

[39:26] was like James Gun's longtime friend

[39:28] that's now working at CIA that's like

[39:30] hey actually I represent this person

[39:31] that's really good. You should have a

[39:32] meeting with them and then that person

[39:33] gets to write the next movie.

[39:34] >> And and I'm being really really critical

[39:37] and what I just said was probably the

[39:39] harshest thing I've ever said about

[39:40] James Gunn. Um but what we should

[39:43] acknowledge is that every movie when it

[39:45] does to come together and open is

[39:46] miraculous in a way. It it's it's

[39:48] miraculous that the right kind of team

[39:50] can come together to even make any

[39:52] adaptation. And the fact that we have a

[39:53] Supergirl movie coming out that like

[39:55] it's a well-cast Supergirl who's part of

[39:56] a cinematic universe that we're still

[39:58] excited about, that's miraculous in a

[40:00] way. And we should be we should be

[40:01] grateful that we can even have a movie

[40:03] like this where we can talk about and be

[40:04] this critical of. Um but what going

[40:07] forward I think what what's required for

[40:10] these movies to work is like adaptation

[40:13] is not a simple thing. And I'm begging

[40:15] Marvel Studios, DC Studios, anybody

[40:18] who's going to be adapting IP, like

[40:22] you,

[40:23] >> it's hard.

[40:23] >> You can find people out there who are

[40:25] working already on projects who have

[40:29] like a a bone deep affection for the IP,

[40:33] for the lore. Uh, and those people are

[40:37] chomping at the bit to get an

[40:39] opportunity to write a screenplay. And I

[40:42] think that's very very important for all

[40:44] future adaptations.

[40:45] >> Yeah. I just think it's hard.

[40:48] >> I'm not even playing devil's advocate.

[40:49] It's just I don't I would not under like

[40:51] there could be the greatest screenplay

[40:53] right now from someone at UCLA and I do

[40:55] not know how they would get that to

[40:56] Kevin Figy's door.

[40:56] >> Yeah.

[40:57] >> And I don't even know how Kevin Feige

[40:58] would trust to read this kid's

[40:59] screenplay. Like that's the hard part

[41:01] and this is what I hate about the

[41:03] mechanics of Hollywood in general and

[41:04] this is why who you know is really

[41:06] important. It's just like that's what

[41:08] gets you through the door. Like that's

[41:10] what gets people to read your script is

[41:11] if you have a good team of people that

[41:12] can promote you. Uh even getting back in

[41:15] the day it was like, "Oh, you won this

[41:17] weird writing competition. You can do

[41:19] this thing." They don't do that [ __ ]

[41:20] anymore. So it's just like who is your

[41:23] manager? Who represents you. Can they

[41:25] like rep you really well? And then on

[41:26] top of that, like show me, prove to me

[41:29] that you actually are good at this. And

[41:30] then after you pass all those tests, let

[41:32] me look into your background. If you

[41:33] have some weird racist tweet, I'm not

[41:35] hiring you. [laughter] If you have some

[41:37] weird [ __ ] like I can't hire you. if

[41:38] you have a problem with something or you

[41:40] said something or you did something, I

[41:41] also cannot hire you. Um, it's it's it's

[41:44] so I'm like I'm not playing I'm not

[41:46] playing devil's advocate because they

[41:47] should they should that I want them to

[41:48] bring new people in. That's how you get

[41:50] better ideas. That's how we got back

[41:51] rooms. But I'm just like I don't even

[41:54] know where to start. I wouldn't even

[41:55] know where to start. And if and I've

[41:56] been an assistant a million times. I'm

[41:58] like, [ __ ] I'm not reading all 500,

[41:59] >> right?

[42:00] >> 500 screenplays. I'm like, what? And

[42:01] then also after the fifth hundred, I'd

[42:03] be like, I don't know what's good

[42:04] anymore. [laughter]

[42:05] >> And we're commenting on the outside, you

[42:07] know? we have like a a position of

[42:09] privilege here where we can just like

[42:11] assume it's way easier than it is. And I

[42:13] I do think like Supergirl is not

[42:15] necessarily like the movie for which we

[42:18] should be being this critical of these

[42:20] franchises. The Mandalorian and Grou

[42:22] deserved this.

[42:22] >> People still like The Mandalorian Grou

[42:24] though. That's the problem is like and

[42:26] also as it's Mandalorian Grou is a

[42:28] [ __ ] spin-off to me. I'm like

[42:30] Supergirl is supposed to be one of the

[42:32] core for me. So, I'm like I'm not trying

[42:34] to put it on a bigger pedestal, but I'm

[42:35] like I expected more from Supergirl than

[42:37] I ever would from Mandalorian Grou, but

[42:39] I would expect more from a Star Wars

[42:40] Star Wars movie like the Rise of the

[42:43] Skywalker before I expect it from

[42:45] Supergirl. Yeah, if that makes sense.

[42:46] >> I I I'll say that I'm far more concerned

[42:48] about the the health and the future of

[42:50] the state of Star Wars after the

[42:52] Mandalorian and Grou than I am about the

[42:54] state of DC after Supergirl.

[42:56] >> They're still going. They don't care.

[42:57] Star Wars don't care. They they got all

[42:59] the money.

[42:59] >> Well, sure. They're always going to be

[43:00] commercially successful, but I think

[43:02] there is far more writing on Stariller

[43:04] in 2027 than there is on like Clayface

[43:07] Mana tomorrow.

[43:09] >> I think so. I think Well, yeah. Yes.

[43:10] Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[43:11] >> I think if uh compared to the the DC

[43:13] ones, 100%. But I don't think it's like

[43:16] a lot is weighing on that movie.

[43:19] >> You think for theatrical Star Wars, it's

[43:20] all weighing on. Wouldn't they get rid

[43:21] of the TV before they get rid of the

[43:23] movies?

[43:23] >> No. If Stariller fails, you're going to

[43:26] see heads roll at Lucas. Really? Yeah.

[43:28] Yeah. Yeah. They need that movie to be

[43:30] super successful. Or we're going to face

[43:32] a future where like we might not have we

[43:35] might be like Star Trek where we don't

[43:36] have Star Wars for the next like few

[43:38] decades.

[43:39] >> I mean that's true. They already did

[43:40] that kind of or well it hasn't been that

[43:42] long since the last one but it's been

[43:44] long enough. It's been too long.

[43:46] >> It's just there or there will be very

[43:47] very small Star Wars movies that come

[43:49] out every now and then that are very

[43:51] lowbudget and then maybe but it's not

[43:52] going to be the big budget franchise

[43:54] ones that it's been for like the past

[43:56] like 20 years. They'll literally keep

[43:57] doing the series.

[43:58] >> Uh maybe, maybe. Yeah, they'll still do

[44:01] animated series

[44:02] >> because the animated ones are still

[44:03] going.

[44:04] >> Yeah. And they have like a welloiled

[44:05] machine. They can keep pumping those

[44:06] out. But live action series, I mean,

[44:08] they cost a lot of money to make those

[44:10] Ahsokas. And

[44:10] >> I just thought that was like where they

[44:12] wanted their money to go more than I

[44:13] guess the TV series still help the

[44:15] parks.

[44:15] >> There's not going to be any money coming

[44:16] in. I think the all that all that like

[44:19] they'll still pump money into parks.

[44:21] Like I think Star Wars will always be a

[44:22] forever brand that will do well in the

[44:24] parks, experiences, merchandise. Yeah.

[44:26] And they'll have animated shows that

[44:28] come out that keep that alive, but it's

[44:30] going to be it's going to take a while.

[44:32] You're going to have to take another

[44:33] generational talent the way J.J. Abrams

[44:35] pitched himself to be in 2014. Oh, yeah.

[44:38] >> Um, so, but yeah. So, but DC Studios, as

[44:41] Peter Saffron and James Gunn have said,

[44:42] they have a couple more movies and shows

[44:44] that are coming out that I think all of

[44:46] them would have to fail and lose a [ __ ]

[44:48] ton of money for them to go back to the

[44:50] wall. Because the thing is, no matter

[44:52] what, Matt Reeves the Batman is going to

[44:54] cook.

[44:54] >> It's going to cook. And Batman will

[44:56] always be a [sighs] hot hot brand more

[44:58] than Star Wars is currently. So I think

[45:00] no matter what, even if you consider the

[45:02] DC brand to still be fledgling and shaky

[45:06] after Supergirl, like damn, this is

[45:08] still the universe that has Batman in

[45:10] it.

[45:10] >> Yeah.

[45:11] >> And uh and I and I'm not too worried

[45:13] about e anyone's jobs right now. I I

[45:16] think, you know, yes, you can be

[45:18] concerned about Paramount's acquisition

[45:19] of Warner Brothers and what the

[45:20] Ellison's want to do with it, but the

[45:21] reason why they were most excited to

[45:23] acquire Warner Brothers is they're like,

[45:24] we want to have our names on a Batman

[45:26] movie,

[45:26] >> I think. And that's the that's your

[45:28] that's your gold ticket. I don't think

[45:29] Marvel technically has that anymore

[45:30] since Iron Man is gone. So, it's like,

[45:32] oh, our money maker isn't Batman. He is

[45:34] making money in the games. He's making

[45:36] money in the other things that have

[45:38] nothing to do with James Gun's DCU. And

[45:40] then they they're making their own DC's.

[45:41] Oh my god.

[45:42] >> And Marvel does have Spider-Man. They

[45:44] share They're sharing it with Sony.

[45:46] >> But but yeah. Yes, you're right. You're

[45:47] right. Um

[45:48] >> core core money is going straight to DC

[45:50] for B right. All of Matt Reeves' money

[45:52] goes straight to DC or War Brothers.

[45:54] >> Yeah.

[45:54] >> And then so what? We don't know.

[45:56] >> Not all of his money, but the money he

[45:57] makes on this movie. And then even if

[46:00] the money for Lego Batman goes somewhere

[46:02] else, a little bit still goes to like,

[46:04] oh yeah, we're adapting.

[46:05] >> Yeah. That that was full Warner Brothers

[46:07] profit there.

[46:07] >> They're getting And then same with the

[46:09] Penguin.

[46:10] >> They still spin spin-off, but like

[46:11] >> HBO series. Yeah. But they still the

[46:14] Batman universe makes money is what I'm

[46:16] saying. Ah damn.

[46:17] >> And so that's why I think you're you

[46:18] might see greater calls for uh James

[46:21] Gunn to just make the Matt Reeves half

[46:23] of the universe. The Matt Reeves Patson

[46:25] Gotham the Gotham of the DCU. But we

[46:28] should be clear that there is still a

[46:29] plan for a Brave and the Bold movie to

[46:31] come out. They want to have their own

[46:32] Gotham. That's going to be the Gotham

[46:34] that we see in in uh Clayface. Now

[46:37] Clayface might be set a few years

[46:39] earlier than everything else. So,

[46:41] there's a world where it just is a

[46:43] separate Gotham, but I don't know. We've

[46:45] only seen a teaser for Clayface. That

[46:47] could be the Gotham of the Matt Reeves

[46:48] universe. But, I feel like that might be

[46:50] pressure that Ellison puts on him by

[46:52] just saying like

[46:53] >> because of more money.

[46:54] >> Either make all of these movies graphic

[46:56] novels and there's no connected

[46:57] cinematic universe or make it the same

[46:59] cinematic universe cuz we're just going

[47:01] to fund more of these patents in

[47:02] Batman's.

[47:03] >> I don't mind you splitting the universe,

[47:04] but I will say if they're both dark and

[47:06] dirty, it's going to be hard to

[47:07] differentiate. Like especially if uh

[47:10] Clayface is going to be bloody and gory,

[47:12] I'm going to be like, "Oh, so Penguin is

[47:14] the same place." Right. Right. These are

[47:16] the same worlds, both dirty and gritty.

[47:18] >> It it I think it's going to be a while

[47:20] before we hear any update about like a

[47:22] separate Batman movie that exists in the

[47:26] continuity of Superman. I think what you

[47:28] might see is if like Clayface [snorts]

[47:30] does okay, like if Clayface is just like

[47:32] kind of a mid-level performer. Um, and

[47:35] if Man of Tomorrow does well, and then

[47:37] if Matt Reeves the Batman is like the

[47:40] highest grossing of all of these movies,

[47:42] what you're going to see is pressure

[47:43] from the Ellison's to just say like, we

[47:46] we'll we'll give you money for a

[47:48] follow-up to that that Matt Reeves

[47:50] directs if we can get Patson back. We're

[47:52] not going to give you we're not going to

[47:53] give you $200 million for another Batman

[47:56] movie. [snorts] That's not that.

[47:57] >> That's not that. Well, yeah, the Batman

[48:00] will make more money than our new Batman

[48:02] would. Also again, but also I'm it's it

[48:05] cost them a pretty penny to make The

[48:07] Batman and Robert Patterson only is

[48:09] gonna ask for more and more money. And

[48:10] then when you put in Scarlett Johansson

[48:12] and a bunch of other people in it,

[48:13] Scarlett Johansson's rate is I want to

[48:15] know what she's making for that movie.

[48:17] >> Uh probably 15

[48:18] >> cuz she makes she made a [ __ ] ton for

[48:20] Jurassic World, but she could have asked

[48:21] for that for Jurassic World. But this

[48:22] one, I could see Matt Reeves being like,

[48:24] "Come on, it's still a good movie. It's

[48:26] out there what these A-listers rates are

[48:28] for like Leo DiCaprio will only do a

[48:30] movie for 20 million.

[48:32] >> Minimum 20 million.

[48:33] >> I just need a

[48:34] >> Tom Cruz is around that too. Um Downey

[48:36] is around that as well. But

[48:38] >> Tom Cruz could ask for more.

[48:39] >> Oh, he does. [laughter] He genuinely

[48:40] gets

[48:40] >> hired for all of it because he's acting

[48:42] as the stunt too.

[48:43] >> I'm saying they're minimums.

[48:44] >> Oh, they're minimums.

[48:45] >> And they get points on the back end

[48:46] generally as well. U Scarlett Johansson

[48:49] I think is the highest paid actress. Um

[48:52] she's higher than Charlies Theron. Um,

[48:54] Zenaia's up there, but I think I think

[48:56] ScarJo gets more than Zinda does.

[48:57] >> I agree.

[48:58] >> Um, so it's probably around 15 million,

[49:00] maybe 20 million for her, but I don't

[49:02] think it's probably not a guaranteed

[49:04] minimum. I bet there's some negotiation

[49:05] because

[49:05] >> there has to be.

[49:06] >> She's she's like hustling. She's not

[49:08] like where it's DiCaprio where he'll

[49:10] only do a movie when he really believes

[49:12] in it. Scarlett Johansson did Jurassic

[49:14] World Rebirth. She's doing this Batman

[49:16] movie and she's doing The Exorcist.

[49:18] >> Oh yeah, she's doing The Exorcist. So,

[49:19] like I think she's probably getting like

[49:21] a minimum of like 12 or 15 would be my

[49:24] guess for all of her movies.

[49:25] >> Okay.

[49:25] >> And it's she's worth it. She brings that

[49:27] much and more for like uh just her being

[49:30] on the

[49:30] >> Also, she's good at doing stunts, too.

[49:32] So, it's like you get the best of both

[49:33] worlds. Everyone recognized her. She's a

[49:34] good face. She's a good person. Not

[49:38] >> I almost said that and then I was like,

[49:39] wait, no, she's not.

[49:40] >> We don't know her. She's married to

[49:43] Colin.

[49:43] >> I know enough of her. I know she just

[49:46] took up for Woody Allen again. Oh,

[49:48] [laughter]

[49:48] well,

[49:50] >> she she she her her priorities are in a

[49:53] different baskets. And this is she would

[49:55] love that we go back to a time where we

[49:57] didn't care about what celebrities

[49:58] [laughter] said, unless they were on

[50:00] camera. She would be like, "Can you guys

[50:02] please just go back to the time where

[50:03] you didn't know [laughter] me?"

[50:05] >> All right. So, that's kind of the

[50:06] general state of the DC Studios universe

[50:09] right now. I think like it's the

[50:11] underperformance of Supergirl is not

[50:14] enough of an indication of the future

[50:16] for James Gunn and Peter Saffron's jobs.

[50:18] Uh but we'll look at Lanterns, we'll

[50:20] look at Clayface, and we'll look at

[50:22] tracking for Man of Tomorrow, and those

[50:24] will be more of an indicator. Uh but I

[50:27] honestly think like James Gunn is still

[50:28] like a valuable asset to the Ellison.

[50:31] >> Um and Craig Gillespie is still a you

[50:34] know, a good director who also made it

[50:36] and Carella and these other movies. It's

[50:38] just he also made this one. He also made

[50:40] Hey, not everyone's gonna win every

[50:41] movie. You know what I'm saying? Those

[50:42] movies might be winners. This one's

[50:44] gonna be bad. [laughter]

[50:46] >> Um, coming up this week on the New

[50:47] Rockstars channel, you will see our

[50:49] breakdown of episode two of season 3 of

[50:52] House of the Dragons coming to the

[50:53] channel tomorrow. Um, X-Men 97 premieres

[50:57] Wednesday, uh, July 1st. First three

[51:01] episodes of X-Men 97, you'll be able to

[51:03] see the new Rockstars Easter egg

[51:04] breakdown hosted and written by Gina

[51:06] Epilo. She is our resident X-Men

[51:09] animated series expert. So, you're

[51:10] really going to love her breakdown when

[51:12] that comes out to the New Rockstars

[51:13] channel. Um, and then we have our next

[51:16] episode of The Road to Doomsday where

[51:18] Jessica and I talk about Logan, the 2017

[51:20] Logan film. Uh, that's coming this

[51:23] Saturday, July 4th, on the 4th of July.

[51:26] All right, so let's end this episode

[51:28] with what we're watching. What else have

[51:30] you been consuming and watching this

[51:31] week?

[51:32] >> Um, I'm watching, which is actually

[51:34] really funny. I'm watching the Batman's

[51:35] all the way through again. not not

[51:37] watching what's his names Adam West. Um

[51:40] I have watched those. I don't need to

[51:41] watch them again, but I'm starting from

[51:44] the or uh like the 89 Michael Kitten.

[51:48] Yeah.

[51:48] >> Yeah. And we're going up.

[51:50] >> And I hate to say it.

[51:53] >> I still love the Val Kilmer one. That

[51:54] one is still my It's still my number one

[51:56] unfortunately. It is still

[51:57] >> That's your number one.

[51:58] >> It's my number one cuz it's so funny. I

[51:59] think it's Jim Carrey as the Riddler is

[52:01] so much fun for me that I really I

[52:04] really like Arnold Sorenhager is also

[52:06] very funny.

[52:07] >> That's in the fourth one.

[52:08] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, no. I Well, I've

[52:10] watched them all, but I'm just watching

[52:11] from the beginning. I'm just naming like

[52:13] the villains are so much fun in that

[52:15] movie. Tommy Lee Jones. [laughter]

[52:17] >> He's like uh Sam

[52:19] >> and you can tell he's kind of really

[52:20] irritated with Jim Car.

[52:21] >> Oh, he [laughter] hates working with

[52:22] him.

[52:23] >> He He just He's so annoyed. The only

[52:25] part I don't like is just like why even

[52:27] put like Drew Barrymore and what's her

[52:29] name as Uma Thurman's Po Ivy in it for

[52:31] like a split second. But otherwise it is

[52:33] very fun.

[52:34] >> Drew Barrymore being in the third one is

[52:36] such an odd

[52:37] >> weird I don't understand. But I I really

[52:39] like I love Val Kilmer a lot. I love Val

[52:42] Kilmer a lot. Oh

[52:43] >> yeah. Miss him.

[52:44] >> I miss I do miss him. I loved Val Kilmer

[52:46] a lot. He was like the hottest man to be

[52:48] when Batman came out. I was like oo now

[52:51] that is a plastic man.

[52:52] >> Um what are you watching? Uh, last

[52:54] Sunday was Father's Day.

[52:57] >> Oh my god. Oh, so sorry. Added part that

[53:00] I'm watching Love Island.

[53:02] >> Oh, I hear it's just straight up porn

[53:04] now.

[53:05] >> Yeah, it is. And it makes me very

[53:06] uncomfortable. And I don't understand

[53:08] why we're okay with it. Maybe I'm

[53:09] getting really old. Is that me being I

[53:11] don't know. I Why are you

[53:12] >> I think we're all sex positive here, but

[53:14] like the show had a different mission.

[53:16] I'll tell you right now, I would like if

[53:18] I was on that show, which I would never

[53:19] be, but if I was, I'm not trying to open

[53:21] tongue every single person within 30

[53:23] seconds. And also, there's like

[53:25] challenges are like

[53:27] >> strip for this person, all five of these

[53:29] men. And I'm like, I don't want to do

[53:31] that. I don't want to do that. I don't

[53:33] mind doing this. Is the first season or

[53:34] not the first season, there's been a lot

[53:35] of season, but this is a season where

[53:37] there's a girl on there that's like very

[53:38] like, oh, um, I'm taking things slow.

[53:41] And she's actually being like

[53:43] villainized for it. Like some of the men

[53:45] are like, "This is crazy. Why is she

[53:47] waiting?" And I'm like, "Probably cuz

[53:48] there's cameras on you guys 24 [ __ ]

[53:49] seven." That same episode, there's a

[53:51] girl going down on a man in their room.

[53:53] And I'm like, "Why are we watching this?

[53:55] This is crazy." Do also, first off, do

[53:56] you guys not know that you're being

[53:57] recorded? Secondly, why am I watching

[53:59] this? Cuz now I'm just watching like a

[54:01] 24year-old giving head and I don't want

[54:04] to watch that. I don't want to watch

[54:06] that. I don't want to watch that. That's

[54:07] all it is. It is porn. It is 100% porn

[54:09] and I have my grievances with it because

[54:11] I don't I feel so uncomfortable. I'm

[54:13] like, I don't think I got consent to

[54:15] watch this.

[54:15] >> Yeah, they didn't warn me that

[54:17] >> they didn't they didn't tell Did they

[54:18] tell them? But I also I'm like I guess

[54:19] it's on it like ninth season. You know

[54:21] what the show's about?

[54:23] >> But I'm also but it's but it's so heavy

[54:25] to me that I'm like

[54:27] >> can I go to Fiji and tell the girl that

[54:28] I just saw her give this guy a head.

[54:29] Yeah. And also their parents are also

[54:31] watching the show. Everyone's families

[54:33] are back home being like, "I hope Carla

[54:34] finds love." And then Carla goes down on

[54:36] Gabriel and you're like,

[54:38] >> "That's not what I meant."

[54:39] >> YEAH, THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT. It's so

[54:41] funny because parents will be in like

[54:42] comments on Facebook being like, "I hope

[54:43] my son chooses a naya. What are you

[54:46] talking about? Get out of here. This is

[54:47] so weird of you, dude. Weird. Weird."

[54:51] And they also don't know how to find out

[54:52] that another girl got caught saying the

[54:54] n word and got kicked off the show in

[54:55] the middle of the night.

[54:56] >> Well,

[54:57] >> girls, why is it so fun to say the n

[54:59] word? I know why it's fun. I can say it,

[55:01] but [laughter]

[55:02] I'm allowed to say it because it's for

[55:04] me. It's my word. But why the [ __ ] are

[55:06] y'all saying it? This girl got caught

[55:08] literally being like, "Oh, this n-word

[55:10] keeps trying to talk to me." In 2022,

[55:13] 2022. And then crazy in the episode

[55:16] she's in,

[55:17] >> she doesn't she conveniently doesn't

[55:19] kiss any of the brown people.

[55:20] >> That's

[55:20] >> She doesn't kiss any of the brown

[55:22] people. She goes, "There's a pattern." I

[55:24] said, and I'm reading it and I'm reading

[55:26] it. [ __ ] you thought you were the

[55:27] Riddler, but I got it. [laughter] I got

[55:29] like walks like a duck, quacks like a

[55:31] duck. She got kicked off the show. I'm

[55:32] like, there's too many times people are

[55:33] getting kicked off THE SHOW. HOW THE

[55:34] [ __ ] is I'm not even trying to compare

[55:36] it to Survivor, but if they can find

[55:38] people on Survivor that aren't [ __ ]

[55:39] horrible people like that, what the [ __ ]

[55:42] are we doing? Like, what you guys have?

[55:43] It's Peacock. You have all the money in

[55:45] the world to be actually vetting a lot

[55:47] of these people and then somehow these

[55:49] people get on the show and then all of a

[55:50] sudden we find their Snapchats of them

[55:52] saying the n-word to every rap music

[55:53] video all of a sudden.

[55:55] >> Well, I think it's a show like Love

[55:56] Island. You really do have to It's

[55:59] harder to find people who are going to

[56:01] kind of put themselves on display like

[56:03] that. Whereas Survivor, you have a lot

[56:04] of people like, I want to make a million

[56:05] dollars. I'm just someone who grew up

[56:06] watching Survivor. And I True, you have

[56:08] a lot more wholesome game bots that come

[56:10] through, especially in the new era of

[56:11] Survivor, but Survivor went through

[56:13] this. There's quite a few people

[56:14] histories.

[56:15] >> Oh, there's problematic people that

[56:16] reveal themselves when they're on

[56:18] Survivor, and I go, "Oops."

[56:19] >> I go, "That's gross." I love My favorite

[56:21] part of Survivor is when Jeff's like,

[56:23] "You make me sick." [laughter]

[56:24] >> Yeah. When Jeff has to be Uncle Jeff and

[56:27] kind of sit everyone down and be like,

[56:28] "Let's talk about how to be people in

[56:30] civiliz."

[56:32] Okay. Sorry. That's Love Island. Insane.

[56:34] I'm not okay with what's happening.

[56:36] Yeah. Now you go. Sorry.

[56:37] >> Um it was Father's Day last Sunday.

[56:40] [laughter]

[56:40] So I was like trying to My wife was

[56:43] like, "You can watch any kind of dad

[56:45] coded thing you want." And I was like,

[56:47] "But what's something that would be

[56:48] really hard to get you to watch on any

[56:50] other Sunday?"

[56:50] >> So we're making a brisket.

[56:51] >> No. Well, that No, I I was thinking

[56:53] movies. So I was like, I put on Master

[56:55] and Command. Mastering Commander Far

[56:56] Side of the World. Um it's a Russell

[56:59] Crowe, Peter Weir movie from the early

[57:01] 2000. It was like the re team up of

[57:03] Russell Crowe and uh Paul Bettany in

[57:07] 2003.

[57:07] >> I didn't watch a lot of I didn't watch

[57:09] any Paul B.

[57:10] >> It's a good Patrick O'Brien ship movie.

[57:12] It's like it's a Napoleonic or

[57:14] >> No, you just said a dad movie. Why would

[57:15] I watch it?

[57:16] >> You don't need to watch it. Well, you do

[57:17] need to watch it. It's [laughter]

[57:18] excellent. It's same director of the

[57:19] Truman show.

[57:20] >> Okay. I like it.

[57:21] >> It's very very good. Uh it was like

[57:23] nominated for a whole bunch of awards

[57:24] and I was like, you know what? How have

[57:25] I avoided seeing this all this time? And

[57:27] it's always been on my list. I was like

[57:29] now this sun Sunday. Father's Day 2026.

[57:32] We're watching it and Kelly's like, "I

[57:34] love that." And I was like, "No." I kind

[57:36] of was like, "Oh man, I was hoping that

[57:37] you wouldn't like it." But

[57:38] >> did you like it?

[57:39] >> Oh, I loved it. I loved it. What I'm

[57:41] saying is like

[57:43] >> I I wanted this Father's Day to be

[57:45] something like cuz this is the only day

[57:47] and Get Away with it. But it just shows

[57:48] me how much I love my wife and how great

[57:50] of taste of movies she has. We have

[57:52] similar taste and she [laughter] if it's

[57:54] a good movie, she's going to like it.

[57:56] Um, but we had a wonderful Father's Day.

[57:58] I like that you chose a movie that you

[58:00] never saw and you like kind of put it in

[58:02] the dad category.

[58:03] >> That is like what if you research like

[58:04] the rewatchables, Jason Conpion was

[58:07] like, "This is definitely a dad movie."

[58:08] And I'm like, "Okay, noted." I was like,

[58:10] "Between that and uh oh, re-watching the

[58:13] pilot of Band of Brothers," cuz Kelly

[58:14] and I are going to rewatch Band of

[58:15] Brothers.

[58:16] >> We've already watched it again.

[58:17] >> I've never watched Band of Brothers, but

[58:19] I also don't know if I should

[58:20] >> this Fourth of July.

[58:21] >> I don't know if I should.

[58:22] >> You should watch Band of Brothers. I

[58:24] don't know. Maybe.

[58:24] >> It's very good.

[58:25] >> It's very, very [laughter] good.

[58:26] >> Maybe I will. Well, is it really sad at

[58:28] parts?

[58:29] >> It is, but

[58:29] >> cuz I started rewatching Sons of Anarchy

[58:31] and then I was like, "Oh, I don't think

[58:32] I can watch this now.

[58:34] >> It's too deep for me. It's too sad." Um,

[58:36] lots of people die in horrible ways.

[58:38] >> Jess, you're getting You're becoming a

[58:40] softy on us.

[58:40] >> I am a very big softy. Oh, I'm very I

[58:42] don't cry. That's why I watch horror

[58:44] movies cuz I don't cry in horror.

[58:45] >> But most horror movies are sad now.

[58:46] >> No, they're not sad. They're people just

[58:48] getting chopped up.

[58:48] >> Well, they're all tragic. They're all

[58:50] like

[58:50] >> No, horror movies is sad.

[58:54] >> I still haven't seen it.

[58:55] >> Really? I still haven't seen it. I'm so

[58:57] behind. You got to watch them while

[58:58] still in theaters. But like none of them

[59:00] are like sad like in the ways that like

[59:02] Wild Robot sad or Toy Story could be

[59:04] sad. Like those are things that I'm like

[59:06] this is emotionally like I can't wa I

[59:09] just can't feel this way right now. My

[59:10] Prozac will not allow me to watch this.

[59:12] [laughter] When I again I got kind of

[59:13] tricked into watching Project Mary. I

[59:15] did not know it was a sad movie. And the

[59:17] entire film I had tissues like this the

[59:19] entire time cuz I could not stop crying.

[59:21] And I I think it's also a we talked

[59:24] about this. It's like um what is it? My

[59:27] biological clock or whatever. When I see

[59:29] cute things that are small or just like

[59:31] need help, I I I react in a way that I

[59:34] can't. That's why I can't watch

[59:35] Gremlins. [laughter]

[59:36] >> Oh.

[59:37] >> And it was really hard for me to see

[59:38] Rocky get hurt.

[59:39] >> And I was just like and like any like

[59:42] Grou the same way. And so like movies

[59:44] that have that and they weaponize that

[59:45] on me, I'm like I can't watch it. I'm

[59:47] going

[59:48] >> Project Hail Mary the movie even toned

[59:51] down that part of from the book. God,

[59:53] >> there's like way more of like um Ryland

[59:56] kind of nursing wounded Rocky back to

[59:59] health. There's like a whole like two

[1:00:01] [snorts] chapters about it.

[1:00:02] >> And I've cried I've cried in books. Uh I

[1:00:04] remember watching me reading me, Earl,

[1:00:06] and the dying girl and there's still

[1:00:07] like if you go back to look at my hard

[1:00:09] cover of it, there's tear [laughter]

[1:00:10] drops. I [ __ ] up the pages. I was

[1:00:13] crying. So

[1:00:14] >> I mean,

[1:00:14] >> so I'll cry if I read I'm not going to

[1:00:16] do I would

[1:00:16] >> most books that I've read I've wept

[1:00:18] during I reading the the Roherim charge

[1:00:22] and from Tolken I was crying during that

[1:00:24] of Harry Potter this final Harry Potter

[1:00:26] book I was college Eric was weeping

[1:00:29] while reading Deathly Hallows for sure.

[1:00:31] >> Yeah, everybody's Harry Potter book is

[1:00:32] definitely wet.

[1:00:34] >> It's water damaged. [laughter]

[1:00:36] >> Oh man. Uh well let us know in the

[1:00:37] comments below what book or movie made

[1:00:39] you cry. Cry baby little Bonnie from Toy

[1:00:43] Story. I'll try to read it unless it's

[1:00:44] genuinely like the Sophie's choice. I'm

[1:00:47] not reading it.

[1:00:48] >> No. Uh, hey, this is great talking about

[1:00:50] the state of DC Studios with you, Jess.

[1:00:52] Follow Jess at Lulu Clements. You can

[1:00:55] follow me at EA Voss. A special thanks

[1:00:57] to one of our in our underground

[1:00:58] subscribers, Justin Shonenrock, for

[1:01:00] supporting us at the executive producer

[1:01:01] level. You can get all of our exclusive

[1:01:03] bonus content by clicking on the link in

[1:01:05] the description below or going to in our

[1:01:07] underground.supcast.com.

[1:01:09] [music] I'm over annunciating because

[1:01:11] I've realized in my recent videos I'm

[1:01:13] kind of mushmouthing things and I'm like

[1:01:15] I what's wrong with my body where I

[1:01:17] cannot annunciate anymore. Thanks to to

[1:01:19] Brian Kim who um tells us everything

[1:01:22] that we say every anything that comes

[1:01:23] out of our mouth. It came out of Brian's

[1:01:25] mouth first. Uh and to Joshua Steven and

[1:01:29] Abby Fel um and to all of our supporting

[1:01:32] editors Eric Gord who edits a lot of our

[1:01:34] podcasts. Big thanks to everyone at New

[1:01:37] Rockstars. Thanks for watching and we'll

[1:01:39] see you next week. Bye, sneaky peakers.

[1:01:41] >> Bye.

[1:01:44] [music]