DCU Future Worries: Supergirl Bombs — Full Breakdown & Trans

[00:00] Welcome to the Heavy Spoilers Show! I'm your host Paul and in this video I want to talk about why I'm even more worried about the future of the DCU. Now, if you follow the channel and dedicate your very being to watching us, then you might remember that 7 months ago I did a video talking about why I was worried about the future of the DCU.

[00:17] In it I talked about the Paramount merger, Supergirl and Clayface, and why I was worried about the level that those projects would perform at. Now, things have come to pass and Supergirl has opened below Morbius.

[00:30] I wasn't having a shit there, right? But it's brought in just $68 million worldwide, which is not good when you're wanting to build something that's going to rival and potentially even surpass Marvel. To be fair, though, Morbius did make one more billion dollars,

[00:45] so everything's going to fall short. But I think whatever way you look at it, there's going to be a lot of worries about the long-term viability of the DCU. Hell, I was even thinking, like, yesterday, like, how many out of the last 20 DC movies have actually made money?

[00:58] because I think we're talking in the single figures if you start adding it up. Beyond just the box office performances, though, and numbers on streaming shows like Creature Commandos and Peacemaker, there's also a massive corporate upheaval. So in this video, I want to discuss the state of things

[01:12] and where I think things will likely end up. Obviously, I want to frame this more as a conversation as well, so if you want to add to it, disagree with me, or whatever, then the comments section below is exactly where you can go.

[01:24] And I don't mean that in a bad way, like, go to the comments section. Cool then, have a good time, have a read and have a chat. Now, in order to understand the current anxieties about the future, we can simply look at the past. I was there, Gandalf, thousands of years ago, and I remember what happened with Zack Snyder.

[01:41] In 2013, he launched Man of Steel, and though things weren't well received critically right from the off, the universe actually produced lots of financial successes. Man of Steel did a similar number to Superman from last year, and on top of that, you had Blu-ray sales and so on and so on.

[01:55] Though it's pretty contested, I think because of the aftermarket and inflation, that Man of Steel has outperformed Superman because, yeah, physical media sales were a great aftermarket, you also had the rental market like Blockbuster's,

[02:07] then you had them selling things to cable networks and blah blah blah. There was lots of stuff back then that doesn't exist today. I think they then expected Batman v Superman to make a billion, and when it didn't, they started to worry,

[02:19] but I think if they got those numbers today, they'd actually be happy with them. Wonder Woman did well critically and commercially and Aquaman grossed over a billion and it was all because of that Pitbull song in it that I had burned out my brain

[02:32] until people started talking about needle drops this weekend and how the Supergirl one was the worst one ever and so was like no the Pitbull one from Aquaman and I was like yeah fair enough that was the worst there's also Suicide Squad as well

[02:44] and things did seem to be going well at least financially how about due to critical reception and a personal tragedy in Snyder's life that vision kind of got brushed to the side in favor of doing more light-hearted things.

[02:57] Eventually, we got later entries that collapsed under the weight of production issues, reshoots, and external controversies, and all this culminated in stuff like The Flash, The Rock was also vying for his own universe, Henry Cavill was announcing he was back as Superman one day, and then Fire the Next,

[03:11] and you just had this constant state of flux where it seemed like everything was up in the air. Now on top of this, I think there's definitely been a decline in audience interest across the board when it comes to these superhero movies. I talked about this in the last video and kind of likened it to music tastes.

[03:26] For example, you can look through our time and see almost every decade has its own style of music that dominates pop culture. Whether it's rock and roll in the 60s, disco in the 70s, 80s music in the 80s, trends tend to rise and then become popular and then die out before being replaced by something else.

[03:43] tastes change western movies weren't popular forever and for sure as fuck won't happen with superhero movies but yeah because of taste changing people getting sick of stuff i do think that the comic book movie genre is on its way out sure we will have big successes i'm sure doomsday will do

[03:59] well i'm sure spider-man will batman will always do well but these lesser known characters people just aren't interested and it's not going to draw people in they have so many projects at this point that we've kind of hit a point where it's all sort of much of a muchness.

[04:14] So I did think when James Gunn came out and announced they had a brand new phase, that maybe it wouldn't even get brought to fruition because people are kind of past the point of caring. I was also a bit worried because there wasn't a full-on hard reset, which I personally think was something they needed to do.

[04:28] I know a couple of people who don't even realise this is a brand new universe because things just seem like there's no real disconnect between what's come before and this. Instead, they're kind of still tethered to the previous movies purely due to retains and things.

[04:42] I'm a big fan of the phrase, don't be afraid to kill your darlings, and I do think though Gunn had built up some characters, you know, he'd done a lot of work, he did need to hard reset and basically get rid of those characters as well and just start things afresh.

[04:57] Because of that though, all the hangups and hangovers from the previous universe are still gonna exist, even if they're coming out and clearly saying that this is DC's Chapter One, Gods and Monsters. But either way the DC Cinematic Universe has been a mess for over a decade now.

[05:11] Whether it's Snyder gang replaced on Justice League by Josh Whedon, the Hamadaverse, the Rock and then all the Gunverse, we're always in a state of flux where the studio is clearly just having these knee reactions at the first sign of trouble However Superman did kind of deliver on the promise of guns saying that they were going for quality Now I been pretty open in saying that I personally didn enjoy the movie that much

[05:34] but I know I'm in the minority and that it was well-received. So even with that, I was like, yeah, fair enough. Wasn't for me, but things will get better. Also, just as a side note, I am someone who sometimes takes a long time to adjust to things.

[05:48] I'm ashamed to admit this, but I really didn't like Batman Begins or Casino Royale when they first came out. They were just so different to what I thought stuff should be that when they dropped, I was like,

[06:00] this isn't for me, this isn't like it was back in my day. I was about 18 years old. But yeah, these days I like two of my favourite films, and there was a part of me that thought, I can see the good in this, it's just not for me right now in terms of where I am.

[06:14] I think where Gunn got stuff bang on though was with the helpful tone, the casting, and the sort of comic book metropolis that was brought to life on screen. In general, I get a lot of shit on the channel for seeming like a Gunn hater, but I think the Guardians trilogy was excellent, and I have liked way more of his stuff than I haven't.

[06:31] I actually also think he's been really good to YouTubers as well, and all those interviews he did with like Ryan and Boba Talks, you know, it was something he didn't have to do, but in my eyes was really positive,

[06:43] and helped to show that the studios appreciate the people who love and support their stuff. But being realistic, it was clear that the film didn't quite hit the mark when it came to its worldwide reception. It underperformed globally and kind of got prompted by its US box office,

[06:57] which even led to people at the studios saying that maybe the rest of the world just didn't like Superman. Which I probably disagree with, but where are we going next? Supergirl! Oh no! But look, it seemed like things were going in the right direction,

[07:09] and though it didn't break the bank, it was quite a good starting off point and actually the first DC film to make money in a long time outside of the Matt Roos Batman stuff. So it felt like it was starting the momentum and might justify a multi-year investment

[07:23] for the audience. Now, when they said Supergirl and Clayface were the next two films, I was a bit like, mmm, before as well, when I was like, what's next, Supergirl? I wasn't saying it because I'm sexist. I was saying because Superman wasn't like worldwide

[07:36] and Supergirl's a spinoff of that. I think I've avoided the cancellation there. In general, though, I think Gunn's sensibilities are to take obscure characters that aren't necessarily the big names and push them forward to try and give audiences something new and fresh.

[07:50] In general, I think he's someone who's just attracted to those kind of characters, and you could kind of tell that by the fact the first project in the DCU was Creature Commandos. Hell, Gunn was even given free reign when he was hired to make Suicide Squad, and out of everything, that is the project that he said he wanted to make the most.

[08:07] Now, I am someone who is a bit, I don't know, adverse to risk when it comes to building a foundation. So I personally think they should have established the Trinity first and basically have done Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman.

[08:19] Yes, I am basic. I don't know when you're building something that you should have the characters that are the safest, best, first, because that's going to get the most eyeballs on them and make more people interested in exploring the other characters.

[08:31] I know Marvel didn't leave with their big names either, but that's because they literally had nothing else to work with. But I'm just kind of baffled that they've had over, like, nine flops in a row in the DCU and have still come out sort of betting on the C-listers.

[08:44] And, mate, the other day I seen them announce a Jimmy Olsen and Gorilla Grudge show, and I was a bit like, I don't know, mate, I don't know. They need to move beyond just making projects for a small core audience, which is kind of the problem that Star Wars is running to as well.

[08:58] So Supergirl I was a bit trepidatious on, not because I'm sexist, you son of a bitch, but because she hadn't been in the big film and both her solo movie and The Flash bombed at the box office. Now, where doubts started to creep in was because of Woman of Tomorrow.

[09:13] I'm pretty sure this is the highest-selling Supergirl comic of all time and across the board, it's also regarded as being the best. It seemed like something that could really show a valued quality first and this is something that Gunn was pushing as well.

[09:25] Right out the gate, he was saying that DC was going to be a studio where they wouldn't greenlight a movie unless the script was excellent and we even saw projects fall by the wayside that didn't seem to live up to it. For example, you go back to that original video where he announces the sleigh

[09:39] and there's like loads there that has either been cancelled or we just haven't heard about. I also think the way that shared movie universes in general work makes them pretty difficult to run. For example, Matt Reeves' Batman Part 2 has got a lot of shit because of how long it's taken to make.

[09:54] But, writing a script, finishing the script, and then shooting it, that's how movies used to be made. You see, back in the day, kids, if you were a screenwriter, you'd come up with the idea for the story, you'd sit down, you'd write out the whole thing, you'd get the beginning, middle, and end, hand it in, they'd go, well, this is good, I like it, maybe change this.

[10:14] Have we got the edits all done? Great, it's all good to go? We're gonna go make the movie. Now, though, they seem to just go in and hodgepodge something together, film it, and figure it out as they're making it, which is something that's gonna cause issues.

[10:26] Though they've said that's not what they're doing at DC, it's clear this movie didn't have things nailed down and that they changed quite a lot in post-production. Unfortunately with shared universes you ultimately have to rush into stuff because if you don't there's too big of a gap between projects.

[10:42] You might even hit the point where you announce something stuff stalls and then you can remake it because the gap is too big and there a big clash between where you are now and where you were when you announced things See Blade for example But because of Woman of Tomorrow how good that that was James Gunn being like we

[11:00] not going to make shit around here, Superman also being good as well, it seemed like things were going to be good. Now, in all of this, looming on the horizon was Netflix and Paramount's bid to buy Warner Brothers. Said this in the last video, but obviously, you know, they're going to be buying this

[11:14] company and wanting to make money. I can see them totally coming in and basically wanting to creatively stifle gun sensibilities and do the basic bitch strategy that I talked about before. Time is something we only get a finite amount of, and that's also the case with money.

[11:30] So I can really see them coming in and being like, look, shared universes cost billions and billions of dollars because you're producing so many, like, $250 million movies, and they take years and years to produce these films,

[11:42] and why are we doing this for these B and C-list characters when we could just be making a Batman movie that actually makes back money. I don't even think fans can be mad at the studio either because to Warner Brothers credit,

[11:54] they've given lots of characters that own solo films and taken risks. Wonder Woman starred in BVS, two versions of Justice League, and also got two solo movies. And she was in Shazam too as well, just remember that.

[12:06] Not in the script, but I just remembered it. But Aquaman was the same. We got two Shazam movies, Black Adam, Blue Beetle, The Flash. There was lots of characters given chances. and lots that bombed.

[12:18] So back to formula it is. Nah, but I think Supergirl has possibly shown the real results of what these characters can do financially and I think Paramount will probably want to steer the ship into the safer bet territory.

[12:30] Which I'm not sure if James Gunn wants to do, judging off his past choices. Beyond that, his contract is also up in 2027, so either party could decide the directions not right for them. And they have the actual financial results to worry them as well.

[12:44] Supergirl is estimated to have a budget between 170 and 186 million dollars and from the off it faced a litany of nightmares. The film went through three composers and there was also a rumoured 25 minutes cut from the film. Pre-release

[12:58] tracking was also quite low as well with an estimating the movie might make 50 million dollars domestically. We now know though that it made just 38 million and this was alarming for a number of reasons. It definitely won't be turning a profit and I think it represents a big drop from the launch of Superman.

[13:13] Many times, seeing this brought up, the obvious reply is to say that the MCU Phase 1 movies didn't do crazy numbers either. I think you have to remember, though, that that's from the time before the superhero craze really took off.

[13:26] You're kind of comparing the first couple of disco albums to something released in the 80s. Just two totally different time periods, and expectations are, of course, wildly different. Plus, we just have so many superhero projects right now.

[13:38] it's just, contest-wise, it's not the same thing as MC Phase One. I think when we live in a society where Marvel Studios' Fantastic Four movie underperforms, that you have to realise that things just aren't the same and the market's totally different.

[13:53] I can guarantee you right now that even if our Lord and Saviour Christopher Nolan just kept making Batman movies every few years, that the ones he was releasing now wouldn't be doing as well as The Dark Knight. Now, had the film been well-received, and I think that could be spun,

[14:07] that there might be other reasons for the performance. Ultimately, though, word of mouth was terrible, and the audience scores and reviews are pretty low in general, so, yeah, just, I don't think it was ever going to perform well because of the movie that they made.

[14:20] I'm sure, of course, there will be people who enjoy it, but I think we have a good picture of the public consensus, and it's pretty clear more people disliked it than liked it. Also, though, there's people saying that it's because people don't want women-led superhero movies

[14:33] but, like, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. This proved that by quite a bit. They show that they can be successful, but you have to do something that really sells the movie, which this film just didn't have.

[14:45] Crypto pissing on a picture of Superman is the first shot. Probably pissed people off. And the buzz around the film, every article that came out, it just seemed like things got more and more negative. I didn't even think in general that this might be a make-or-break year for the VCU.

[15:01] You have Supergirl, Lanterns on TV, Clayface, and then the production of Man of Tomorrow. So Supergirl is kind of if they can successfully bring side characters who cameoed in films to be successors on their own. Lantens is whether they can make a TV streaming show a big success

[15:16] if they're using some of their A-listers. And Clayface is whether the dark and disturbing stuff that makes up the monster part of Gods and Monsters is going to be well received too. If all these fail to generate sufficient revenue,

[15:28] then I do think Warner Brothers might reassess their commitments. They've done it in the past, and the worst thing is they didn't even warn a brother yes yes again son of a bitch now we did hear that david allison

[15:40] flew out to meet james gunn man of tomorrow to say he was invested in the vision but i think gun leadership and credit control is tied to the old regime so they might impose different things there also might be more financial oversight and it could even force dc to prioritize other ips

[15:55] think dc's value is completely undeniable as a whole but they probably want to focus on the surefire wins as opposed to taking risks. Though Gunn did make Supergirl per se, it definitely has a lot of his fingerprints on it and you know whenever something

[16:09] is bad people are always looking for someone to blame and I think the blame is probably gonna fall at his feet because he the face of the studio If subsequent entries like Clayface or Lanterns also struggle it because of his choices

[16:23] and the entire Shared Universe experiment could be deemed too risky or expensive. And profitability is always a pressure. Normally, if a film doesn't do well critically like Minecraft or something,

[16:35] you can brush it to the side because it's done so well financially. But if a film like Supergirl underperforms theatrically, and it gets intense scrutiny not only from the audience, YouTubers like me, but also from the studio itself.

[16:47] So I think the timing of this and the results are basically, yeah, not making me feel confident that we have a universe enslaved that lasts 10 years or more. Gunn already talked, as Barber talks about this as well, and said that at the man of tomorrow,

[17:01] he is unsure where things could be heading and if he'll even be the one who's doing it. Again, that contract ends in 2027, and I do even wonder if the wheels are in motion right now behind the scenes, and they're just putting on a happy face while they're rolling things on Man of Tomorrow.

[17:16] God knows they've already seen the results of coming out and being like, oh, all those movies coming out, the next four, mate, don't bother going to see them, mate, we're starting the universe. And that basically killed Shazam 2, The Flash, Blue Beetle, and Aquaman 2.

[17:29] So I can't see them being like, oh yeah, we're scrapping this, mate. Things will be quiet if it's happening. Now, beyond that, I know it seems like I'm saying the sky is falling, but I don't think these worries are baseless,

[17:42] and, in fact, are pretty grounded in corporate reality and observable data. The Paramount acquisition brings in some big uncertainty, and no matter what business you're in, new leadership coming in always has a focus on clear paths to profitability,

[17:56] and it's normally less tolerant to losses. Superman did well, but not to the point of basically insulating the franchise from other criticisms in a way that Spider-Man, and Multiverse of Madness helped to dissuade criticism

[18:08] around some of the bombs in the recent MCU phases. That said, I do wonder if the past shake-ups and Glenn's reputation in general might also help. I'm really of the mind that, even if things keep bombing,

[18:20] they should just steer the course, stay with how things are, wrap things up in a team-up film, and then finish things after that. Tell a complete story. Like, in general, mate, if Zack Snyder had got to release Justice League,

[18:33] if they had that set of films that would have been it. There would be no more pay off. It was the fact they didn't let things wrap up that caused so many issues, so much reaction and I think the audience

[18:46] will just lose faith and not get invested in things going forward if it's like, oh here's another reboot make sure you get excited about it we might stop making them in two years time and reboot again. It's kind of like fool me once, shame on me

[19:00] fool me twice, shame on you. You can't get fooled again, basically. I think it would be a bad strategy in general to do another reboot after this. So, even if I'm not...

[19:12] I haven't really enjoyed either Superman or Supergirl that much, I think it would be a mistake to just reboot things once more. Gunn's track record with Guardians of the Galaxy and the Suicide Squad,

[19:24] they demonstrate an ability to deliver distinctive superhero fare that works for the majority of the audience. After what's happened this weekend, I think they really need to come out swinging, and that Comic-Con needs to have some massive, massive announcements.

[19:37] I also think they could do something with Clayface where they have a Batman cameo and do it where that's when they announce who's playing him. If you catch your mind back at the flash screens, you might remember that they cut off before revealing who was playing Batman.

[19:49] There was lots of rumours there was a past actor and I remember hearing it and being like, oh mate, it's gotta be Bale. Christian Bale is back. Wasn't the case, obviously, but stuff like that can really elevate hype and I think that would get a lot of eyeballs on the film.

[20:01] And it probably wouldn't be that difficult to just add in that scene and doing like a minute long or even 30 seconds could add a couple million to the box office. Ultimately though DC's survival will depend on how Supergirl legs out and how

[20:16] everything does between now and Man of Tomorrow. How about without stronger box office results and stable corporate support the fears that the DCU may not continue in its current ambitious form I feel are very real. The next 12 to 18 months will likely determine whether this reboot becomes

[20:33] a sustained success story or another chapter in DC's long history of cinematic reinvention and disappointment. I even wonder, like, after this, what Gunn's going to do. And I do kind of hope that he goes and stretches his creative muscles on something else. I'd love to see

[20:48] him do a horror movie or something. In general, as someone who's been covering this genre for nearly 10 years myself, I can imagine that being in this space is quite creatively limiting, especially if you're doing decades and decades of it. So I hope he just goes off and

[21:04] makes something else if this falls apart, but I also kind of hope that it doesn't fall apart. But yeah, that's my worries in regards to how things have gone this weekend, and I'd of course love to hear your thoughts on whether you disagree, whether you agree, you've got anything to add,

[21:17] leave it all below. You can also follow us on Instagram at Heavy Spoilers and keep up to date with everything we're doing. Did you know as well that members of the channel also get early access to videos like this every single week and if you click the join button you get at least one breakdown a week a week before you're lost cost just 99 cents a month very very low price get a

[21:34] lot of content for that you're gonna have a nice nice life anyway huge thank you for sitting through this bit of a rant and i'll see you in the next one take care peace