DF Direct Q+A: The Big "Xbox Reset" Memo Discussion - What Happens Next?

[00:02] Hi everyone and welcome to the latest

[00:04] edition of the DF Direct Q&A show. Lots

[00:06] to get through this week. Lots of

[00:08] questions, lots of answers, but we've

[00:10] got to start off by talking about the um

[00:13] next 100 days Xbox reset memo that Asha

[00:16] Sharma sent to team Xbox employees

[00:19] globally uh yesterday at the time of

[00:21] filming this. Joining me to talk about

[00:22] that and to answer a bunch of questions,

[00:24] John Lenman. Hi.

[00:25] >> Hey, Rich. It's uh lead o'clock

[00:27] according to my phone. Hard to see I

[00:29] guess in this light. There we go. It's 1

[00:31] 1337 o'lock over here in Germany which

[00:34] is a very good time and perfect for

[00:36] talking about all things tech.

[00:38] >> Yeah, absolutely. Uh hello Oliver

[00:41] McKenzie. How are you?

[00:43] >> I'm good. I struggle to understand

[00:45] 24-hour time as a North American, but I

[00:48] think that's uh 137. Is that right,

[00:50] John?

[00:51] >> Yes, correct.

[00:52] >> Yes. Okay.

[00:55] >> Okay, then. Well, as I said, lots to

[00:57] talk about. Um, uh, so let's crack on.

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[01:56] Right. So, we do have to talk about this

[01:58] next 100 days Xbox reset because after

[02:01] the sugar rush high of the Xbox showcase

[02:04] 2026, we're now sort of brought back to

[02:06] reality with an in-depth uh briefing

[02:09] from Asha Sharma and Matt Booty about

[02:11] the challenges facing the Xbox business.

[02:14] And there's some good stuff in there,

[02:16] but there's also a bunch of stuff that's

[02:18] very, very worrying. 3% accountability

[02:20] margins, which I assume is a profit

[02:22] margin. uh year-on-year revenues over

[02:25] the last five years declining um by half

[02:29] a billion dollars despite a $20 billion

[02:32] investment not including Activision

[02:34] Blizzard King. Um the hardware component

[02:37] crisis uh storage has doubled uh

[02:41] compared to what was paid last fall or

[02:44] autumn as we call it in the UK. those

[02:47] costs have doubled again and they're

[02:49] expecting another significant increase

[02:51] as they're planning for the holiday 2027

[02:54] season. Uh interesting wording there. Um

[02:57] memory costs following a similar

[02:59] trajectory they say. Um there seem to be

[03:01] concerns about the nature of the studio

[03:03] system and there's the hint of layoffs

[03:06] to come which is which is not great.

[03:08] Platform infrastructure not built for

[03:10] the battle ahead. They say our systems

[03:13] are overly complex. Um becoming too

[03:16] reliant on vendors to operate our

[03:18] systems and we must become self-reliant.

[03:21] Um yes, crazy stuff in there. Um Oliver,

[03:26] where do you want to start with this?

[03:27] Because it's um obvious that something

[03:31] has got to change, but at the same time

[03:33] um w they've kind of got to invest at

[03:37] this point to to make things better. And

[03:39] I'm not sure of the extent to which uh

[03:42] losing a ton of personnel making cuts is

[03:45] part of that voyage.

[03:47] >> Yeah. I mean at the moment it's not

[03:49] totally clear exactly what they mean by

[03:52] this kind of statement because they

[03:53] basically go through um in terms of the

[03:56] studio system. They talk about expanding

[03:58] their studio system when they needed a

[04:00] large pipeline of content and they're,

[04:03] you know, fortunate stewards of many

[04:04] industry leading leading franchises, but

[04:07] they have not adequately funded them in

[04:08] some instances. And they're also saying,

[04:11] well, we need to balance the priority

[04:13] between our like top tier titles that

[04:15] are going to make a lot of money for us,

[04:17] the exclusives hopefully, and their

[04:19] investment priorities for the next 5

[04:20] years, which suggests doesn't say, but

[04:24] suggests, hey, maybe there's some cost

[04:26] cutting on the books to come. And some

[04:28] reporting from, you know, high-quality

[04:31] journalists out there like Tom Warren

[04:34] has suggested that uh there is

[04:36] potentially some cost cutting to come in

[04:38] the form of studio closures, layoffs,

[04:40] things like that in the next month or

[04:42] two. Um which is very ominous and a

[04:46] concern because obviously Microsoft has

[04:48] staffed up hugely to build out this

[04:50] portfolio of studios and they are in a

[04:53] position where maybe some of those bits

[04:54] are paying off, some aren't. And in this

[04:56] industry also you have to consider like

[04:58] some studios that might have recently

[05:00] delivered product might not be on track

[05:02] to deliver a new game for five or six

[05:03] years. That's also a concern because

[05:05] games take so long to develop and so

[05:07] much time and money to develop. But that

[05:09] is something that doesn't not

[05:10] necessarily look that good in a balance

[05:12] sheet in the near term. An uncertain bet

[05:14] to pay off in half a decade. Who knows

[05:16] what the world looks like in half a

[05:17] decade. Who knows what that bet looks

[05:19] like in half a decade. Perhaps they make

[05:20] some choices on that basis. But yeah, it

[05:23] overall it strikes a little bit of a

[05:24] somber and concerning tone because they

[05:27] are talking about, you know, hey, Xbox

[05:29] Game Showcase was great and our fans and

[05:31] creators are are more excited than ever

[05:33] and we brought back uh Game Pass to a

[05:36] more reasonable price point and lots of

[05:38] positive points in the mix there. But

[05:40] then they're also talking about, hey,

[05:41] listen, uh hardware prices are like

[05:43] doubling every like 3 months. You know,

[05:46] that's not promising. And then they're

[05:48] talking about maybe launching a console.

[05:50] They specifically mentioned the 2027

[05:52] holiday season and being in a position

[05:54] where they're in a bit of a pickle and

[05:56] they need to find some kind of new

[05:57] hardware arrangement to make that work

[05:59] because they're already launching a

[06:01] high-end console. They're going to need

[06:02] to find a way to bring that console

[06:04] experience to as many gamers as

[06:06] possible. They have a number of ways to

[06:08] get there, but that's certainly a

[06:09] concern as well. So yeah, overall I

[06:12] think this statement is

[06:14] hinting and pushing and certainly some

[06:17] of the third party reporting has

[06:19] basically gone as far as to as to

[06:21] confirm they're going in the direction

[06:23] of layoffs. Exactly what that looks

[06:25] like, what studios will be impacted, you

[06:28] never know. And often times this is

[06:30] dictated a lot by the internal economics

[06:31] of what teams have shipped, are close to

[06:34] shipping, what could we cut, and also

[06:37] what do investors think. I think that's

[06:39] probably the thinking that they're going

[06:40] through at the moment. And I would be

[06:42] really curious to see what kind of

[06:43] studios might be impacted. But it it

[06:45] does seem unfortunate at this point to

[06:47] be kind of an inevitability as as kind

[06:50] of cruel as that is to developers to

[06:52] have to face something that basically

[06:54] says, "Well, you're going to be laid

[06:56] off, but keep on working, but you won't

[06:58] know when you're being laid off or when

[07:00] people may be laid off and your whole

[07:01] studio might be closed." That kind of

[07:03] attitude towards developers is probably

[07:06] not helpful. Also, I kind of wonder if a

[07:07] statement like this might do a little

[07:08] bit more harm than good. Kind of leading

[07:10] a pal over over everything for for some

[07:13] time now.

[07:14] >> Mhm. John, we got this really crazy

[07:16] situation here where on the one hand,

[07:17] Microsoft is uh you know, running

[07:19] FanFest, you know, making inroads into

[07:22] trying to reconnect with the community.

[07:24] Um trying to sort of um build bridges

[07:27] there and at the same time we have this

[07:29] harsh reminder that it is a part of

[07:32] Microsoft seemingly has to pay its way.

[07:35] Microsoft is making gigantic amounts of

[07:38] money hand over fist. I think you

[07:40] pointed out earlier Xbox is still

[07:42] profitable, but the the line is going

[07:45] down and that seems to be uh

[07:49] a potential justification for harsh

[07:52] realities to come.

[07:54] What what what do you think they're

[07:56] going to do? Well, I suspect they're

[07:58] going to do kind of what they're laying

[08:00] out here and based on the rumors of

[08:03] potential layoffs, we're going to see

[08:04] that as well. And I'm disappointed to

[08:07] hear that because fundamentally, as I

[08:09] pointed out, Xbox has a business seems

[08:13] to be well, they've struggled, right?

[08:15] And they are ear, you know, earning less

[08:18] per year than they were previously. The

[08:20] line is not going up, it's going down,

[08:23] but they remain profitable all the same,

[08:25] right? And Microsoft is breaking

[08:27] records. They are insanely profitable.

[08:30] 200 plus billion dollars in in revenue

[08:33] uh in the last 12 months. It's clearly

[08:37] not an issue of sustainability because

[08:39] the company is is doing extremely well.

[08:42] Instead, it feels like the Xbox division

[08:44] is simply being held to the typical fire

[08:47] you see from these large western

[08:48] companies where uh being profitable is

[08:51] not enough. You must be extremely

[08:53] profitable, right? So, I guess most of

[08:56] my frustrations here lie more with

[08:58] Microsoft as a parent company and larger

[09:01] tech company culture, especially those

[09:04] in the US, than anything else, right?

[09:07] Because I feel like if Xbox were to

[09:09] continue on down this new trajectory

[09:12] with the plans that Asha set up without

[09:14] resorting to additional layoffs and

[09:16] studio closures, they actually could

[09:19] continue to course correct and in time

[09:23] return towards an increase in

[09:25] profitability. The line should be able

[09:27] to go up once again. Uh and it's never

[09:30] fallen into the red either. So there was

[09:32] no danger of that there, at least not

[09:34] yet, especially now that they are making

[09:35] these adjustments. So I don't like this

[09:38] idea of any of these large companies

[09:41] making this choice to

[09:43] lay off additional employees in this

[09:45] economy. Things are extremely dire right

[09:47] now and we do not need more of this. It

[09:49] doesn't matter whether it's Xbox, Sony,

[09:52] whatever. Like all these companies,

[09:54] >> the layoffs, it needs to stop at some

[09:56] point. people are not going to be able

[09:57] to even spend the money necessary to

[10:00] participate in these ecosystems that

[10:03] they want to build. And that extends to

[10:05] these complaints over the hardware

[10:06] component crisis. Uh this is where you

[10:09] want to post the Tim Robinson meme in

[10:11] the hot dog suit, right? Like who's at

[10:13] fault here? Guess what? Microsoft, the

[10:16] corporation, played a huge role in this

[10:19] inflation in component costs. Their push

[10:22] for AI is directly connected to this. So

[10:26] yeah, Xbox as a hardware division has to

[10:28] deal with this, but this is their own

[10:30] fault. This is Microsoft's fault. This

[10:32] is OpenAI's fault. All these other I

[10:36] almost said stupid companies, but uh I'm

[10:38] very frustrated with the state of of AI

[10:40] and tech centers and and everything that

[10:43] this is uh and everything that this is

[10:46] doing to our beloved industry, right?

[10:49] And this creates this problem where

[10:51] there's more layoffs, fewer people have

[10:53] have jobs, less money, cost of goods is

[10:56] going through the roof. Nobody's able to

[10:58] afford this stuff. I don't even know how

[11:01] how you proceed at this point. They're

[11:03] talking about launching this new machine

[11:05] with these high component costs, and

[11:06] it's going to be a very challenging

[11:08] thing at this point because, you know, a

[11:11] $1,000 box just isn't going to cut it in

[11:13] this day and age. I think Sony's finding

[11:15] out the hard way now. They've increased

[11:17] the PS5 price once again, sales have

[11:19] started to fall and I think that will

[11:21] continue. And

[11:23] >> Mhm.

[11:24] >> I I all of the plans that they've made

[11:26] that Xbox has made, Sony's making for

[11:28] the future, this is all based on a

[11:31] reality that didn't exist when R&D began

[11:34] because these consoles take so much

[11:36] time. uh the component crisis wasn't

[11:38] necessarily part of that or if it was it

[11:41] was a different level of component

[11:43] crisis but costs are really reaching a

[11:46] dangerous point. So I think that they

[11:49] are making some good moves as far as

[11:51] Xbox is concerned but some of the the

[11:54] bad moves that they have to make feel

[11:56] like it's born out of just being a part

[11:58] of a company like Microsoft and this

[12:00] like unwillingness to have a vision for

[12:02] the long term that tech companies seem

[12:05] to suffer from. It's all about the next

[12:07] quarter rather than the next 10 years.

[12:10] >> Yeah, absolutely. Um I mean the name of

[12:12] the memo is the next 100 days, the Xbox

[12:15] reset, and they're talking about how

[12:16] they've had declining revenues over the

[12:18] last 5 years. And uh what I take to mean

[12:21] from that which I kind of find

[12:23] surprising is that obviously their move

[12:25] into multiplatform publishing uh you

[12:28] would think they made a lot of money

[12:29] there. You know, particularly when the

[12:31] likes of Forts Horizon 5 are selling

[12:33] like 5 million units on PlayStation 5,

[12:35] but it doesn't seem to be enough. And

[12:37] maybe this is part of why they've

[12:38] decided to refocus

[12:40] um on stuff like exclusives. you know,

[12:43] the whole um uh uh it does look I mean

[12:46] they're talking about planning for the

[12:47] 2027 holiday season. AMD in the past has

[12:50] talked about being ready for that 2027

[12:53] date for the next generation console. So

[12:57] Oliver, it looks like based on what

[12:59] we're inferring here from point number

[13:01] three in the memo is that it does look

[13:03] like Helix is going to be arriving next

[13:05] year. Um and it faces extreme challenges

[13:08] from an affordability perspective. Um,

[13:11] so there's stuff here about um new

[13:15] business models and partnerships for

[13:17] hardware and I'm curious what's that

[13:20] what that is going to take. I mean uh

[13:21] something I've suggested in the past is

[13:23] um something that actually Microsoft has

[13:25] done in the past and might still be

[13:26] doing it for all I know Xbox all access

[13:29] where you pay for game pass and you pay

[13:31] more because you're basically um buying

[13:35] higher purchase so to speak of a console

[13:37] at the same time. partnerships for

[13:40] hardware. That's quite interesting as

[13:42] well, though. It kind of suggests that

[13:44] um the rumors of Helix being um

[13:48] something that other people could

[13:50] create, possibly the likes of Asus or

[13:52] whatever, may well be a thing.

[13:56] >> Yeah, it certainly does suggest that. I

[13:58] would kind of think that maybe Microsoft

[14:00] would pursue something like the strategy

[14:02] that they do with Windows computers,

[14:04] albeit with a little bit different

[14:05] proportions because obviously Microsoft

[14:08] makes Windows computers. They make

[14:10] Surface devices. They sell lots of

[14:12] Surface devices, I'm told, and that is

[14:14] part of their strategy. and may also go

[14:16] to third parties to deliver, you know,

[14:18] maybe the bulk of the units to the

[14:20] market, specifically units that are

[14:21] intended more for uh mid-range or

[14:24] low-end um low-end consumers, low-end

[14:27] platforms. Uh they do partner with third

[14:30] parties. So maybe they could adopt the

[14:31] same strategy when it comes to Xbox and

[14:34] ship their Helix device, their Magnus

[14:36] based device, but also rely on third

[14:38] parties to deliver lower-end devices to

[14:40] wider swaps of the market, have more,

[14:42] you know, distribution and retail

[14:44] channels, things like that possibly. I

[14:46] mean, that's one one way they could go.

[14:48] Um, and they could launch lower-end

[14:49] devices because obviously Helix itself

[14:51] uh Magnus at least is a chiplet based

[14:54] design. So you can imagine combining

[14:55] that CPU IP with lower-end GPU IP like

[14:59] different blocks, different chips,

[15:01] different different chiplets to make a

[15:03] lower-end device or a different CPU

[15:05] block altogether. Who knows exactly how

[15:07] that will go, but I think that's

[15:09] probably something that AMD could

[15:10] deliver for Microsoft if they wanted to

[15:12] do so. Um, there are other routes they

[15:14] could go though, like obviously you

[15:15] suggested a some kind of like

[15:17] subscription model that's popular

[15:19] historically in the cell phone space,

[15:21] although I think in North America and

[15:23] Canada, we don't really do that anymore.

[15:24] I don't know about other areas of the

[15:25] world, but like it used to be very

[15:27] common to get a phone in a 24-month or

[15:29] 36-month contract. That would include

[15:31] basically the purchase price of the

[15:33] phone, possibly subsidized in there, as

[15:35] well as the price of the cellular

[15:38] subscription and maybe some associated

[15:40] services as well. So that's one way they

[15:42] could go with things. Another way they

[15:44] could go with things is just just to

[15:45] leverage the cloud. Now that's one

[15:48] possibility, but in my own personal

[15:50] experience, Excloud is not that good at

[15:52] the moment. Like I was just using, you

[15:54] know, on my iPad the other day and it

[15:56] had some obvious frame rate presentation

[15:58] problems, some frame frame rate

[15:59] inconsistency problems, frame

[16:01] presentation inconsistency problems.

[16:03] They make games look very awkward and

[16:05] not very pleasing to the eye. So um

[16:08] certainly like I think all the console

[16:10] vendors and their cloud delivery

[16:12] services need some improvement but

[16:14] Microsoft's uh perhaps is not strong

[16:17] enough to be a major pillar of their

[16:19] business I would suspect although who

[16:21] knows what their data looks like in

[16:22] terms of usage but I I think real

[16:24] hardware is still an important still an

[16:26] important element of this uh of this

[16:28] whole business. So yeah there are

[16:29] multiple avenues they could go down. I'm

[16:31] not convinced any one of them is

[16:33] particularly good and they're all going

[16:35] down them because of the high price of

[16:37] hardware which is going to affect even

[16:38] their kind of lower-end devices. Right?

[16:40] You're not going to get like a series

[16:42] like device I would suspect for $300

[16:44] American it's going to be more like $600

[16:46] American I would I would think at the

[16:47] very low end of of things. So yeah it's

[16:50] not a very good position for Microsoft

[16:52] at the moment but these are pressures

[16:54] that all console vendors are facing.

[16:56] >> Mhm. Yeah. I mean, when you first launch

[16:59] a console, it is the core users, the

[17:01] core enthusiasts who buy it, and they do

[17:03] tend to be able to to pay more money.

[17:06] The question of $1,000 for a Helix

[17:09] console, somewhat different, though.

[17:12] And um, you know, based on the prices

[17:15] we've seen of current gen, I don't think

[17:16] that's completely out of the question.

[17:18] There was an interesting point made by

[17:19] the forks Kerry there talking about how

[17:22] from a value perspective viewed through

[17:24] the lens of PC purchase uh Helix could

[17:27] actually be very very um uh valuific

[17:38] gamers there. I am curious as to whether

[17:40] they will make a lower spec device um

[17:42] and that chiplet um design that you've

[17:45] pointed out there in theory they could

[17:47] produce one with you know lower memory

[17:49] lower capabilities

[17:52] then you need to ask the question why

[17:53] don't we just stick with the hardware

[17:55] that we have uh because it it's you know

[17:58] it's certainly decent enough but you

[18:00] know it the new stuff is going to be

[18:02] doing some very interesting uh stuff

[18:04] with machine learning that kind of thing

[18:07] um John it's not a great place is it? I

[18:09] mean, we've seen in the UK v ver

[18:12] verified data that since Sony increased

[18:14] its prices um on PlayStation 5, the

[18:17] amount of units sold through has dropped

[18:19] by 50%.

[18:21] >> There is clearly a threshold where

[18:23] people are just not going, you know,

[18:24] where a more mainstream user, I would

[18:26] say, is not going to be paying a huge

[18:28] amount of money for a games console.

[18:31] Yeah, this is an interesting this kind

[18:33] of ties into what I mentioned earlier

[18:34] with the increase in layoffs everywhere

[18:37] is like the affordability is decreasing

[18:39] on all new consoles at this point. Um, I

[18:43] don't think this is this is good for the

[18:46] industry at all at the moment and I

[18:49] wouldn't be surprised if we see people

[18:50] start to move back towards older

[18:52] platforms at some point or just stick

[18:55] with what they already have. So, I don't

[18:58] know. I feel like right now launching

[19:00] any new machine is going to be extremely

[19:03] challenging to the point where I'm not

[19:05] sure it's a good idea. I I really don't

[19:08] know where we go from here, right? Like,

[19:11] >> well, it's going to depend on how

[19:13] innovative, as they say, um their

[19:16] approach to actually being able to sell

[19:17] this thing is. I think it's basically a

[19:19] a confirmed thing that's happening right

[19:21] now. That's what kind of what they're

[19:23] suggesting here. They've just got to

[19:24] come up with the means by which it

[19:26] actually is enticing to users.

[19:28] Otherwise, the whole enterprise fails,

[19:30] right?

[19:30] >> Yeah. But they're going to have to find

[19:31] a way to get that price in check, right?

[19:34] Like, no, there's no way to there's no

[19:38] way to slice this. A $1,000 box is not

[19:40] going to sell well enough to support a

[19:42] whole ecosystem. So, as she kind of

[19:44] noted in interviews, they're going to

[19:45] have to find some interesting ways to be

[19:48] able to financially make this work. I

[19:51] don't know what that will look like. Um,

[19:53] I hope they can find a way to do it and

[19:56] I really hope they have some interesting

[19:57] ideas for how to market this because the

[20:01] only hope I would say I have with this

[20:03] kind of device is that uh phone prices

[20:06] continue to sit in that range and higher

[20:09] and people are much more willing to

[20:11] upgrade them. So, if they could find a

[20:13] way to make it a more multi-purpose box,

[20:16] which is what we believe they are doing,

[20:18] and then sell it in a way that's

[20:20] compelling enough, uh, it could solve

[20:23] problems that people have that might

[20:25] make them more willing to shell out. I

[20:27] don't think it's like mass market

[20:29] sellout necessarily, but it could

[20:31] definitely make it more palatable, but I

[20:33] do think they're going to have to find

[20:34] some other ways to make this like more

[20:37] affordable, including I think we talked

[20:38] about subsidizing it via something like

[20:41] Game Pass or some other kind of method

[20:44] for getting the immediate cost down to a

[20:47] reasonable level. And I think at this

[20:49] point, Microsoft's the only one that

[20:51] really maybe conceivably should be

[20:54] launching a new platform. It feels like

[20:57] like I think a PS6 right now would just

[20:59] be a stupid thing to launch. There's too

[21:01] many units out there of PS5 and it's

[21:04] going to cost an obscene amount of money

[21:05] and I don't think they're going to

[21:06] change anything significant about it. Uh

[21:09] Nintendo just launched the Switch too

[21:11] and it's already creating issues for

[21:12] them in terms of component costs. So,

[21:15] they're going to be sticking with that

[21:16] for a while. But the Xbox Series

[21:18] consoles, uh they've sold enough but not

[21:21] as not nearly to the same level as the

[21:23] competition. Um, but they also have the

[21:26] PC as like a main platform. So, I man,

[21:30] this is this has got to be a very

[21:31] difficult problem to solve. But then

[21:34] again, like I said, they're still Xbox

[21:36] is profitable, man. They're still

[21:37] profitable. They're still releasing tons

[21:40] of games. They have so many developers.

[21:43] Like, I don't see the doom and gloom

[21:45] around any of this stuff. I still feel

[21:47] like Xbox is perfectly strong as its own

[21:49] thing. even if it doesn't take over the

[21:52] business, I I feel like it should be

[21:55] okay to make, you know, good money, if

[21:58] not the most money, right? And I hope

[22:01] that that is able to continue.

[22:06] I read a a story actually about how um

[22:08] AMD's David McAfee, he's basically the

[22:11] guy in charge of Ryzen and and Radeon,

[22:14] um expecting or hoping,

[22:17] I guess he probably would have some

[22:18] better idea than most of us. Uh he's

[22:21] expecting DDR5 RAM prices to recover

[22:24] slowly. Um maybe a couple more years

[22:27] until it's kind of back to where it

[22:28] should be. So maybe there is a kind of

[22:30] short-term pain window for launching in

[22:32] 2027 if things are likely to stabilize

[22:35] in 2028. I don't know. Um but but let's

[22:38] move the discussion on take some

[22:40] supporter questions here because the

[22:41] concept of exclusivity has certainly

[22:43] been uh a hot topic. Um Scud asks, "On

[22:46] the topic of Xbox exclusives, I'm

[22:48] generally in favor of everyone getting

[22:50] to play everything. I don't really care

[22:51] about console loyalty, console wars, but

[22:54] when they said Gears of War eay was

[22:55] going to be an exclusive, it made me

[22:57] happy. I own an Xbox regardless of the

[22:59] impact on sales. I think they're

[23:01] literally just trying to make people

[23:02] happy that they bought in. So, job well

[23:04] done because it worked on me. Do you

[23:05] think that's the main strategy here? Uh,

[23:08] I think so. And based on what we're

[23:10] seeing on those numbers, um, you know,

[23:12] clearly the exclusivity gambit hasn't

[23:14] really changed the direction of travel

[23:17] for them. But moving on, teasing

[23:19] hilarity says, "And hello again, fine

[23:21] gentleman of the foundry. Do you think

[23:22] the return of Xbox exclusives will be

[23:25] enough to save Xbox, especially when at

[23:27] least some of them will also be on PC?

[23:29] Pretty much all of them, isn't it? I can

[23:31] see a lot of people being upset after

[23:33] being upset rather than psyched for

[23:35] Xbox. Archon 2825, dear valued

[23:39] Foundryman with Microsoft pivoting back

[23:41] to console exclusives. How does that fit

[23:43] into their overall strategy? On one

[23:45] hand, they want to be the world's

[23:46] leading publisher. On the other hand,

[23:47] from what we know, they seem to be

[23:49] targeting a niche hard hardware platform

[23:51] with Elix. Even if it's a phenomenal

[23:53] device, it won't be a traditional

[23:55] console with tens of millions of units

[23:56] sold. Given how expensive AAA game

[23:59] development is today, don't they need a

[24:01] massive install base to sustain this?

[24:03] Thanks for your insights and keep up the

[24:05] great work. Uh, exclamation point. Um

[24:08] Oliver, the the last point in

[24:10] particular, I mean if you are making a

[24:12] high-end device like Magnus Helix, it's

[24:16] it is kind of going to be um a lower

[24:20] volume device and that doesn't seem to

[24:23] be compatible with this concept of

[24:24] console exclusives. Um how do you square

[24:27] that circle? Well, I would square the

[24:30] circle by saying that it seems like

[24:32] there were a lot of decisions that were

[24:33] made by prior leadership that seem to be

[24:35] pushing in the direction of a fully

[24:36] multiplatform Microsoft shipping low

[24:39] volume high-end console hardware as kind

[24:42] of a concession almost to existing uh

[24:44] Xbox fans that was designed to be

[24:47] high-end that was designed to showcase

[24:48] kind of a premium Windows AMD experience

[24:51] but was not designed to hit a mass

[24:52] market price point or saturate the

[24:55] channels with tens of millions of units.

[24:57] Asharma has come in and seems to have a

[25:00] different perception of that to the

[25:02] extent that there was like a low-end

[25:03] Xbox Helix device in development. I'm

[25:06] sure there was some kind of low-end

[25:08] experience being offered at least, but

[25:09] perhaps it wasn't a high priority.

[25:11] They've made it a high priority is my

[25:12] reading. And they're trying to make

[25:14] Helix a mainstream proposition very

[25:16] quickly. Um that's whether that's

[25:18] through chasing uh a larger audience

[25:20] with lower spec devices or through

[25:22] subscriptions or through cloud or

[25:23] whatever. not quite sure, but they're

[25:25] trying to make that experience

[25:26] accessible to a lot more users. And part

[25:29] of that uh lies in kind of enabling this

[25:32] whole exclusive concept where they can

[25:34] have exclusive games. They don't need to

[25:36] ship everything on PlayStation. And

[25:37] indeed, they're backing away from making

[25:40] everything available on PlayStation, not

[25:41] just day and date, but kind of for

[25:44] eternity as far as we know with some of

[25:46] these games. So, I think that's

[25:48] basically the answer is there's been a

[25:50] change in the strategy and I think

[25:51] they're trying to ship trying to turn

[25:53] what Helix was into something more

[25:56] consolelike and more console priced. Uh

[26:00] whether that works or not, I'm not

[26:02] totally sure. It does seem like these

[26:04] changes in direction of Microsoft, you

[26:05] know, you don't really see major changes

[26:08] in direction from like Sony or Nintendo.

[26:11] They kind of just ship good consoles

[26:13] every six, eight years, whatever, and it

[26:18] works out well for them, and they ship a

[26:19] wide variety of high quality first-party

[26:21] software. Microsoft is the odd one out,

[26:23] kind of making changes, making huge

[26:26] deviations from the business model every

[26:28] generation, and it's not working out so

[26:30] well for them. And Asha seems to be

[26:32] saying, well, let's go towards a more

[26:33] traditional model.

[26:36] >> Right. Okay.

[26:38] We're talking about pretty much a big

[26:39] reset there, which is what they've

[26:41] titled the memo there, John.

[26:44] >> I mean, yeah, I guess it's

[26:47] I I don't know how how many more times

[26:48] to go around in circles on this, but

[26:50] like everything points to them that it's

[26:53] still a division that makes money and

[26:55] produces good stuff. And

[26:59] I guess they're making moves here to

[27:01] sort of regain some of the hardcore

[27:03] fans. And if they can balance that while

[27:07] still making money, I guess. I mean, I I

[27:10] don't know what else to say about this.

[27:12] It's really kind of a wait and see

[27:13] approach. I don't feel like things are

[27:15] as dire as they've been painted out to

[27:17] be is what I'm is my point. Right.

[27:20] >> Like everybody acts like, "Oh, it's the

[27:21] end of Xbox." It was never the end of

[27:23] Xbox.

[27:25] >> Like there was no evidence of that. Like

[27:27] them changing the way they release games

[27:29] doesn't matter. They're still a giant

[27:31] publisher producing a ton of great

[27:33] stuff.

[27:34] Um so they're just going to do slightly

[27:38] differently. Now

[27:40] >> I think um the thing is that we've kind

[27:43] of gone to a multiplatform strategy

[27:45] which um according to the numbers

[27:46] according to this memo didn't work and

[27:48] but that was instigated off the back of

[27:51] a um a console ccentric focus which um

[27:56] Microsoft the parent company was

[27:57] seemingly not happy about which brought

[27:59] about the multiplatform uh pivot in the

[28:01] first place. So, and at the same time,

[28:04] we've still got this stated aim of them

[28:06] wanting to be the number one

[28:07] entertainment company. Although, um they

[28:09] describe themselves as number two, but

[28:11] who is number one? That's that doesn't

[28:13] seem to be, you know, what is the metric

[28:15] for what for being the most successful

[28:17] entertainment company? Do you include TV

[28:19] in that? Do you include, you know,

[28:21] Disney, etc.? Is it Tensson who's number

[28:24] one? I'm not quite sure what's what's

[28:25] what the situation is there. Um, I

[28:29] guess, you know, at the moment it's kind

[28:31] of like we we're just starting to see an

[28:32] insight into what's going to be

[28:34] happening at Microsoft and um, uh, I I

[28:37] guess there must be a plan. It doesn't

[28:39] seem to be immediately obvious to me how

[28:41] they're going to do it, but there it is.

[28:44] I think we should move on. Okay, we got

[28:46] this question here from NG. Hello,

[28:49] Foundry Lads. Exclamation point.

[28:50] Longtime Patreon, first time poster

[28:52] here. My question is fairly

[28:54] straightforward. Given that Valve won't

[28:55] be able to sell the machine at um the

[28:57] Steam machine at the price point they

[28:59] originally had in mind, what's stopping

[29:01] them aside from the sunk cost in the

[29:03] design current design from saying sold

[29:04] it. It's going to be expensive due to

[29:06] memory costs. We might as well release a

[29:08] slightly pricier but significantly more

[29:10] powerful version. I'm thinking along the

[29:12] lines of a full Zen 4/5 plus RDNA4

[29:16] pairing instead of the quote unquote cut

[29:18] down versions they currently plan.

[29:20] Cheers. Exclamation point. I mean, on

[29:22] the face of it, that seems to be like an

[29:24] entirely sensible approach in in many

[29:27] respects, right? Um, but I think that

[29:29] the bottom line is that um uh first of

[29:32] all, any kind of increase to an already

[29:34] expensive console um or or or PC is

[29:38] going to be felt. Secondly, I think the

[29:40] the broader point here is that the

[29:43] hardware specification when you're

[29:45] making a device like this, you know,

[29:46] you've got to set up the supply chains,

[29:48] you've got to sign the contracts. It's

[29:51] it's a lock. You can't really go back to

[29:53] say, you know, AMD and say, "Hey, those

[29:55] um hundreds of thousands of components

[29:58] that we've ordered, they're not quite

[30:00] good enough. Can you give us some better

[30:02] ones?" That's not really the way things

[30:04] work in um in the way consumer

[30:06] electronics are made. So, bets were made

[30:09] at a certain point where they thought

[30:11] presumably that they could produce a

[30:13] very affordable machine. And if you

[30:15] consider the makeup of the machine, it

[30:16] is, you know, it it strikes um the sweet

[30:19] spot in terms of where Valve sees its

[30:22] audience, you know, looking at the Steam

[30:24] hardware survey. Um but the concept of

[30:27] going back and you know, swapping out

[30:29] components,

[30:31] easy in theory, very very difficult in

[30:34] practice. Uh do you agree with that,

[30:36] Oliver?

[30:37] >> I do. I do. I mean, they just have so

[30:40] many commitments, I'm sure, in terms of

[30:42] supply, terms of contracts that are

[30:44] drafted with AMD for specific

[30:46] components, things like that. Um, and

[30:49] device engineering is just really

[30:50] prohibitive because you have have to

[30:52] like redo the motherboard, the power

[30:54] delivery, the cooling, the acoustics

[30:57] drivers possibly, um, even things like

[31:00] HDMI behavior, things like uh,

[31:02] validation

[31:04] uh, across a wide range of games, right?

[31:07] QA across the whole Steam library of

[31:09] titles. There are so many concerns here

[31:12] um just on that end and then on the

[31:13] other end you have cost which is like

[31:15] you know if the key concern is RAM and

[31:17] storage than a higherend device with

[31:19] more RAM and possibly more storage is

[31:22] not really going to do anything to allay

[31:23] these concerns about price. And uh you

[31:26] know uh Valve picked the Steam machine

[31:31] uh spec for an actual reason not just

[31:34] hitting a price point. They picked it

[31:36] because they thought it could run, you

[31:38] know, games, current generation games

[31:40] quite well at like 4K 60fps. Again,

[31:43] depends the implementation. We'll have

[31:46] to see how that actually goes. But they

[31:47] actually did set out a spec of like at

[31:50] least let's hit a good experience on a

[31:51] 60 at 60 Hz on a 4K display. Um, and we

[31:56] think this spec can do it in current

[31:57] generation console software. So, I don't

[32:00] really think they need necessarily to

[32:01] upgrade the spec unless their views have

[32:04] shifted on what it should achieve. And

[32:06] if they were to do so, I suspect it

[32:07] would be need to be delayed by at least

[32:10] a year. I'd have to expect based on the

[32:12] size of Valve and based on their kind of

[32:13] commitments and they would be tearing up

[32:15] a lot of paper that would probably be

[32:16] pretty expensive from their perspective

[32:18] as well. I don't think it's a good idea.

[32:21] And so, yeah, I think that the device is

[32:22] just it's going to come out. It's

[32:24] probably going to come out fairly soon

[32:25] because they've sketched out a release

[32:26] date in the first half of this year. And

[32:28] it's probably going to come out, I would

[32:30] suspect, in substantially unaltered

[32:31] form. And that's probably best for all

[32:32] parties involved.

[32:34] >> Yeah, John, I'm just thinking that every

[32:36] time a new piece of uh gaming hardware

[32:38] is announced, people never think it's

[32:40] powerful enough.

[32:41] >> I mean, yeah,

[32:42] >> and they always want something better.

[32:44] >> That's kind of the rule of thumb, isn't

[32:45] it? Right. And yeah, as you correctly

[32:48] noted, these things take time to

[32:51] engineer. You can't just it's this isn't

[32:54] this is not like a PC where you can just

[32:56] say uh I'm just going to swap in this

[32:58] card instead of this card. Like all the

[32:59] deals and designs and everything that

[33:01] happens behind the scenes that stuff

[33:02] takes a lot of time and work to get up.

[33:05] So like no they couldn't change this

[33:08] without delaying it at least a year like

[33:10] you said Oliver. And so I don't think

[33:12] that would actually change anything.

[33:14] They just kind of have to go their their

[33:17] choices here were either launch it at a

[33:18] higher price or just cancel it. And it

[33:22] seems like they will go for go ahead

[33:23] with launching it.

[33:25] >> And I think the Steam Deck proves that

[33:26] if you can do this in a way that feels

[33:30] super optimized and polished,

[33:32] >> people are willing to accept some

[33:34] trade-offs in terms of performance. I

[33:35] still think the Steam Deck offers a

[33:38] better portable PC experience than any

[33:41] default like Windows-based handheld for

[33:43] instance. uh just due to the nature of

[33:46] you know Steam OS and the way that works

[33:48] like that is a huge selling point even

[33:51] if the hardware itself under the hood

[33:53] isn't quite on par. Um, and I think

[33:57] that'll be the same thing here where

[33:58] this should conceivably perform like a

[34:01] proper console where you hook up to the

[34:03] TV, everything sort of works and it's a

[34:06] smooth experience versus say hooking up

[34:08] a Windows PC to your TV that you built

[34:11] yourself, which is just never going to

[34:13] be as polished as this could be. And

[34:15] there is an appeal there. But Valve is

[34:17] also not in the same market as the

[34:18] console makers. Like Steam is a PC

[34:23] storefront. They sell it across so many

[34:25] devices, right? Like this is just one

[34:27] more way to access Steam as it was with

[34:29] the Deck. So, I think they're happy

[34:31] selling a low volume, higher priced sort

[34:34] of like machine like the Steam machine,

[34:36] uh, which will probably get, you know,

[34:38] some attention but not become a giant

[34:40] mainstream success either. And I think

[34:41] they're okay with that.

[34:43] >> Absolutely. Um, let's move on here.

[34:46] Question here from 1040 STF. I was

[34:48] really impressed by the God of War lowfi

[34:51] footage shown during the last state of

[34:54] play, but I noticed also noticed as did

[34:56] you gents that some aspects featured

[34:57] fairly flat lighting. Part of me can't

[34:59] help but wonder if that's because the

[35:01] game is actually a flagship PlayStation

[35:03] 6 launch title artistically designed

[35:05] with a more advanced ray tracing mode in

[35:07] mind. Or maybe even path tracing if

[35:09] we're dreaming big. That would also

[35:11] explain why it didn't feature any

[35:13] release date window despite appearing to

[35:14] be fairly far along in development. How

[35:17] plausible do you think that theory is?

[35:20] Um Oliver, well they they've shown it

[35:22] running on PlayStation 5 or PS5 Pro,

[35:24] whatever, and that's what we're getting

[35:26] and they're saying it's coming soon. So

[35:28] it's coming soon, right? Um presumably

[35:31] before PlayStation 6. So my take on this

[35:34] is basically that, you know, that's it.

[35:38] That's what you're getting. That does

[35:39] not rule out any kind of enhanced um

[35:42] PlayStation 6 version, mind you. In

[35:44] fact, it's pretty much a given really.

[35:47] >> Yeah. I mean, it's going to come out on

[35:49] PlayStation 5, I would expect, uh, in

[35:52] the next, I don't know, year, year and a

[35:54] half or so. I mean, certainly some

[35:56] journalists like Jason Shrier, I think,

[35:57] was suggesting. It is a 2027 title of

[36:00] some variety. I mean, who knows how late

[36:02] in the year that is necessarily, but I

[36:05] also would expect, I mean, I would

[36:06] almost be certain there's going to be a

[36:08] PlayStation 6 version. Whether that's

[36:09] just a simple enhancement, whether

[36:11] that's something more substantial, who

[36:13] knows? We'll have to see um whether

[36:14] that's just a patch on the existing PS5

[36:16] version of the game. We have no

[36:17] logistics on how that will work on PS6

[36:20] necessarily. So, we'll have to see how

[36:22] that goes. But, um I mean I would have

[36:24] to imagine here that if you're going to

[36:26] build a game like this around RTGi that

[36:29] often times it's best to scale that to

[36:31] all your target platforms. And actually

[36:33] PS5 as your base platform is not

[36:36] especially low-end in terms of like

[36:39] shipping an RTGI system. I think you

[36:40] could probably do it. So, I would just

[36:42] expect that they would probably ship I

[36:44] don't know. I mean, they they could ship

[36:45] an RTGI mode on PS6, but it would

[36:48] require a lot of artist time, a lot of

[36:49] artist work, a lot of uh you know, tech

[36:52] stuff they might not have had experience

[36:54] with before necessarily. Um, so I

[36:56] wouldn't expect a dramatic improvement

[36:57] for PlayStation 5 rather than

[36:59] PlayStation 6 necessarily in this title.

[37:01] And I certainly would expect it to be a

[37:02] cross-platform title of some variety.

[37:05] Probably launching first on PlayStation

[37:07] 5 with some kind of enhancement, I'm

[37:09] sure, planned for PlayStation 6. when it

[37:11] does launch.

[37:14] >> Yeah, entirely in agreement, John.

[37:18] >> I don't really see any issues with the

[37:19] footage. It looks like what you'd expect

[37:21] from Santa Monica, and I suspect it is

[37:23] just a PS5 target. I mean, their

[37:26] lighting has always been somewhat

[37:27] conservative, I would say. Um, that was

[37:30] true of God of War 2018, and it was

[37:32] doubly true of God of War Ragnarok,

[37:34] which was a crossgen game as well. And I

[37:37] felt like this was improved in that

[37:40] regard over Ragnarok, which is what you

[37:42] would expect to see from a native PS5

[37:44] game. I think companies always do design

[37:46] their games to be more scalable these

[37:48] days. You do consider that it may launch

[37:50] on other platforms in the future. That's

[37:52] probably the case here, but I'm not sure

[37:55] that they would go back in and like toss

[37:57] just RTGI on something when it's been

[38:00] lit by artists the way it has been

[38:04] already, right? Like I think this is

[38:06] just this is what the game looks like.

[38:07] Take it or leave it.

[38:10] >> So which I think it looks good. It

[38:12] doesn't it's not like cutting edge, but

[38:14] it's a it's a handsome game, I would

[38:16] say.

[38:17] >> And image quality seems pretty good and

[38:18] 60 fps. Like we're kind of at this point

[38:22] I've seen in this generation where most

[38:25] games either go for all of those

[38:27] advanced techniques and image quality

[38:29] suffers or you stay with more tried and

[38:32] trueue rasterized techniques or just a

[38:34] little bit of ray tracing and you can

[38:36] typically get better image quality out

[38:38] of it. So this seems to be going for the

[38:41] latter.

[38:43] Uh let's move on. Justin Valero asks,

[38:46] "With the relaunch of the 5800 X3D,

[38:49] where are we on gaming CPUs? Are we at a

[38:51] point where mainstream CPUs are quote

[38:53] quote unquote good enough currently?

[38:56] What hits the right balance where one is

[38:58] not CPU limited on mid-range/high-end

[39:01] GPUs since the current consoles running

[39:03] on Zen 2? Yeah, first of all, quick note

[39:06] about the 5800 X3D. It's back. AMD is

[39:09] bringing it back. um they've had some uh

[39:12] issues in the way it's packaged, but

[39:14] they have indeed managed to bring it

[39:15] back. Unfortunately, they're going to be

[39:16] charging $350 for it. So, it's kind of

[39:20] like a last harrah for the AM4 platform,

[39:23] but it's also one that's that, you know,

[39:25] it's it's far more than I paid for for

[39:28] mine um several years ago, which uh uh

[39:31] isn't isn't good. I mean, let's not even

[39:34] mention that I got a 5700 X3D from

[39:36] AliExpress for £130.

[39:39] uh it's almost as good. Uh where are we

[39:41] on gaming CPUs? Um the problem is is

[39:44] that every single game has a completely

[39:46] different CPU level where you can start

[39:49] to be CPU limited and it's far more

[39:51] prevalent than you may think. Uh we um

[39:53] just looked at um the uh Halo campaign

[39:56] evolved preview. Um that was CPU heavy.

[40:00] Maybe that improved by launch. Um we are

[40:03] looking at 007 first light at the moment

[40:06] and when there's a lot of crowds uh even

[40:08] something like a Ryzen 5 5600 is is less

[40:12] than 60 fps. So it's actually performing

[40:13] worse than the Zen 2 processor there.

[40:16] Basically there's a completely different

[40:18] sort of balance between GPU versus CPU

[40:20] on every single kind of game at the

[40:22] moment. But the the demands on the CPU

[40:25] are rising. Um that's that's for sure.

[40:29] um you can mitigate it by you get the

[40:32] most um uh amplification in frame rate

[40:35] by using frame generation um when you're

[40:38] CPU limited um however obviously that

[40:41] has an impact on latency so there's no

[40:43] you know there's there's no easy way of

[40:46] saying this this CPU is enough for you

[40:49] right I mean um I've even been CPU

[40:51] limited path tracing on Cyberpunk 2077

[40:54] with a with a 5090 crazy as that might

[40:57] sound uh 4K DLSS performance mode there.

[41:01] >> Crazy stuff. I mean,

[41:04] >> the thing is, you can't really make a

[41:06] single recommendation here when you're

[41:09] getting such drastically variable

[41:11] results. What I will say is that, you

[41:13] know, I played um I played the Halo

[41:15] Preview with a 5600.

[41:18] I could see I was CPU limited, but you

[41:20] know, still in the 50s. That's kind of

[41:21] okay. I mean, similar to 007. The Zen 2

[41:26] parts though, I think they're starting

[41:27] to uh to show their age somewhat. Um,

[41:30] anything to add, Oliver?

[41:32] >> Well, the only thing I would add is that

[41:35] in addition to the games themselves

[41:36] having a variable level of performance

[41:39] on given CPUs, there's also people

[41:41] having a different expectation as to how

[41:43] games should run, right? Like some

[41:46] people are really interested in high

[41:47] frame rates. Doesn't matter the

[41:48] graphical fidelity. Just pump me up to

[41:50] like 360 Hz. That's what I want. Other

[41:53] people like myself are much more like,

[41:54] well, I'm okay at like 100 FPS, 72 FPS,

[42:00] 60 fps. Indeed, in a title like um in a

[42:04] title like Forts of Horizon 6, I'm able

[42:05] to play that game at 72 Hz natively with

[42:08] frame gen up to 144 hertz, which to me

[42:11] feels pretty good. Other people might

[42:12] not like that. Other people might want

[42:14] native 144 hertz. In that case, they'd

[42:16] need higherend CPU hardware than I have,

[42:18] which is like a 13700 K. But in general,

[42:21] I would say that if you're, you know, if

[42:23] you kind of think of games as being like

[42:25] roughly comfortable around console spec,

[42:28] I'd want something that's firmly better

[42:30] than console spec, just like a Ryzen

[42:32] 7000 series processor or an Intel 12th

[42:35] gen core. Most of those should be able

[42:37] to get you into okay territory in most

[42:39] games, good territory in most games. Um,

[42:41] and then if you really want a premium

[42:43] experience, then go towards the like

[42:45] 9,000 X3D processors or even 7,000 X3D

[42:48] processors. I think those are really

[42:50] good options. But um it's hard to offer

[42:53] a blanket statement cuz I could offer

[42:54] that statement and then you'd be like,

[42:56] "Well, my number one game is Oblivion

[42:58] Remastered." Then I'm like, "Well, okay,

[43:00] now we have a different set of

[43:01] performance expectations to navigate

[43:03] around, right? Because we have this game

[43:05] that is just miserable on CPUs. You need

[43:07] the very fastest you can get and even

[43:09] then you might not be happy. So really

[43:11] going to depend on the person, going to

[43:12] depend on the game, going to depend on a

[43:14] lot of things, I suspect."

[43:17] John, have you come up against any sort

[43:18] of games recently where I mean you're on

[43:20] a 13900 K, aren't you?

[43:22] >> Uh, I mean

[43:23] >> where it's been an issue.

[43:24] >> Sure. Personally, I mean, yeah, the

[43:26] 13900K versus a 1590. Sure. Yeah. Being

[43:30] CPU limited is not uncommon and that's

[43:33] often usually where I am limited. Um, I

[43:37] that's why I do actually like frame

[43:40] generation. I know I know people hate

[43:41] frame generation, but I really do. It

[43:43] does feel like free fluidity

[43:47] uh that doesn't, you know, it's great.

[43:49] It overcomes issues with CPU

[43:51] limitations, but I actually think for

[43:52] this generation, we're in a pretty good

[43:54] spot for CPUs. Uh, I think it's balanced

[43:58] out where both PCs and consoles alike

[44:00] have what I would say are good enough

[44:03] CPUs for most applications, especially

[44:05] if you're okay with like just 60 fps

[44:09] versus I feel like most of the CPU

[44:12] bottlenecking starts to happen when you

[44:13] want to hit those really high frame

[44:14] rates above 60, then that's a problem.

[44:18] But for both consoles with its Zen 2

[44:21] CPUs and you know your average PC CPU, I

[44:25] feel like you can generally play your

[44:27] average game in a very good state and

[44:30] it's a lot better than it used to be in

[44:32] that regard. So, I mean, I don't really

[44:35] have any complaints. I think we're in a

[44:37] in a pretty good spot right now. I think

[44:39] CPUs still matter. you can still

[44:41] bottleneck them easily enough, but it's

[44:44] it's not a huge problem for most games,

[44:47] and it's something that I think you can

[44:49] generally get a good experience both on

[44:51] PC and certainly on consoles, which are

[44:54] significantly better in that regard than

[44:56] than the last generation. And it's not

[44:59] even close.

[45:01] >> Yeah.

[45:02] >> Well, looking back at that last

[45:03] generation, I'm just surprised that they

[45:05] managed to get so much performance even

[45:07] to get to 30. I know

[45:09] >> effectively mobilebased x86 cores that

[45:13] weren't particularly good

[45:14] >> the Jaguars

[45:15] >> quantify.

[45:17] >> Okay, let's move on. Got this question

[45:19] here from anxiously chrono figure to

[45:20] round off the show. Hey DDF crew, do you

[45:22] think Xbox Series S was M was Nintendo's

[45:25] secret savior? I mean, since devs have

[45:27] had to target this low-end device,

[45:29] moving to Switch 2 development must have

[45:31] been easier for them than it would have

[45:32] been otherwise if only the quote unquote

[45:35] twin consoles existed. Cheers. claration

[45:38] point. Um Oliver, you've done a lot of

[45:40] Series S versus uh Switch 2 comparisons

[45:44] and um what can you say there? There

[45:46] does seem to be certain commonalities

[45:49] between some of the cutbacks that are

[45:51] being made for Xbox Series S that now

[45:54] find themselves into the Switch 2 ports.

[45:57] >> Completely. Completely. I would say that

[45:58] in a lot of cases, we basically see very

[46:01] very similar trade-offs being made

[46:03] between those two platforms. Um in a lot

[46:05] of titles really. One title that comes

[46:07] to mind recently, although I didn't

[46:08] cover this one, is Final Fantasy 7,

[46:11] where it seems like Switch 2 and Series

[46:14] S use basically identical settings,

[46:17] except that one is using DLSS and one

[46:19] isn't, and I can tell you who the victor

[46:21] will be in that one, but I think you can

[46:23] probably guess yourself. You know,

[46:24] there's a lot of commonality between

[46:25] those two machines. Obviously, in terms

[46:27] of GPU compute, that's one area of

[46:29] commonality. RAM is another area. You

[46:32] have 10 GB um on Series S of which 8 GB

[46:35] is accessible to developers. Switch 2

[46:37] has 12 and 9 GB accessible to

[46:40] developers. Pretty similar formula

[46:43] there. Um and yeah, you do see fairly

[46:47] similar compromises often in Switch 2

[46:49] software as series software. And often

[46:51] times when we're trying to project

[46:52] performance for games that are coming up

[46:54] that aren't released yet, but might have

[46:56] a Series S version, we're often looking

[46:58] to that Series S version. And so in in

[47:00] the case of like 007 First Light for

[47:02] instance, I was plumbing through that

[47:04] Series S version trying to tell a story

[47:06] about, hey, how will Switch 2 run?

[47:08] Because I know that Switch 2 and Series

[47:10] S often share an enormous amount. Um,

[47:12] and yeah, in some cases, we actually do

[47:14] see Switch 2. I mean, maybe this

[47:16] undercuts my point a little bit. We do

[47:17] actually see Switch 2 exceed series ass

[47:19] not just in terms of image quality but

[47:21] in some cases like for the release of

[47:23] Star Wars Outlaws for instance there

[47:25] were enhanced rate traced reflections on

[47:27] switch 2 greater coverage of rate trace

[47:29] reflections in the Switch 2 version than

[47:31] Series S. Um, I'm not sure if that was

[47:33] the specific platform optimization and

[47:35] maybe more just a factor of like, well,

[47:37] we had more time and we made slightly

[47:38] different choices, but it's interesting

[47:40] to see those kinds of divergences in

[47:42] software. And especially with DLSS

[47:44] nowadays, we do tend to notice that um,

[47:46] being a significant advantage on switch

[47:48] 2, like in the case of the Resident Evil

[47:51] 9 port, right? uh Resident Evil Reququ

[47:53] that title looked much I'm sure John can

[47:56] concur with me here looked much better

[47:57] on Switch 2 than Series S in terms of

[47:59] image qualitys.

[48:03] >> Sorry,

[48:03] >> it ran worse though.

[48:05] >> It did run worse. It did run worse

[48:07] unfortunately. But yeah, lots of cases

[48:09] like that. Lots of cases like that.

[48:12] >> John, what do you think?

[48:13] >> I mean, I'm sure it helped. I'd also say

[48:15] the rise of handheld PCs, like the deck

[48:18] helped as well. uh you know developers

[48:21] are were interested in ensuring a wide

[48:24] range of PC hardware could handle their

[48:25] games and modern engines seem to be

[48:27] pretty scalable anyway. So I think it's

[48:29] just we're at a point where games are

[48:31] just scalable enough that it's not the

[48:33] same kind of problem that it used to be.

[48:35] And I think when you put a little bit

[48:37] more extra effort into it, you can come

[48:38] up with something special. But I think

[48:40] it's also possible just to get decent

[48:41] ports without, you know, a huge amount

[48:45] of investment and time and resources as

[48:47] well. So, Switch 2 is is good for that.

[48:50] And yeah, DLSS definitely does a lot of

[48:52] heavy lifting in terms of improving

[48:54] image quality and which I think is kind

[48:57] of what we were hoping for. And it has

[48:59] it has indeed played out that way, which

[49:02] is great.

[49:04] >> Mhm. Yeah, I think it's uh certainly

[49:06] been helpful. I mean, because there

[49:08] would be like a reference experience

[49:09] where certain nips and tucks have been

[49:11] made that the developers are comfortable

[49:13] with. But at the same time, I think that

[49:15] it probably you would have seen similar

[49:17] things happen for for Switch 2 anyway

[49:19] organically just by the fact that it's,

[49:21] you know, going to sell a lot of units

[49:22] and developers want their games to look

[49:24] great on it. And, you know, they've got

[49:26] some good um technology to work with

[49:28] there, specifically DLSS. I still really

[49:31] do want to see the um Tiny DLSS at a

[49:35] higher resolution versus CNN DLSS at a

[49:38] lower resolution.

[49:40] uh played out somewhere because honestly

[49:43] it seems to be the case that the the

[49:45] titles where DLSS is most impactful is

[49:48] where developers have put in the

[49:50] computational cycles into the higher

[49:53] quality of version of DLSS paying for it

[49:56] with lower resolutions and it seems to

[49:58] to to look good and and work well.

[50:00] Resident Evil and Pragmata game, you

[50:03] know, several games presenting better on

[50:06] Switch 2 than they do on um Series S,

[50:08] even though there may be a frame rate

[50:10] penalty there. So, you know, I kind of

[50:12] think it it's it's helped, but I think

[50:14] people would have put in the effort

[50:15] anyway, uh basically. But even so, we've

[50:18] seen some good stuff. Um that was the

[50:21] final question, therefore the end of the

[50:23] show. So, please do like, subscribe,

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