DF Retro Super Show #016: E3 Revisited - The First Ten Years

[00:12] My name is John. I'm about taking notes.

[00:15] I'm about fanning flames. And these guys

[00:18] are here to talk about games. Yes, it's

[00:20] the DFresher Super Show and we're

[00:22] entering into summer. I've got uh DJ

[00:25] Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince going on

[00:27] in the background. And we're gonna

[00:29] reminisce about E3 because I miss it. It

[00:33] used to happen every year for almost 20

[00:35] years and now it's gone. But uh in its

[00:39] place, we have Summer Games Fest, which

[00:40] isn't quite the same. But we thought

[00:42] today we would go through and talk about

[00:44] some of the great moments in E3 history,

[00:46] our personal experiences with E3, and

[00:48] generally reflect back on that sort of

[00:50] period because I think all the

[00:52] excitement around it is one of the

[00:53] reasons we probably got into games to

[00:56] begin with. Uh but first, the cast

[01:00] making his return after a long exodus.

[01:05] We have Audi. He feels just like a

[01:08] purple Pikmin. It's early.

[01:10] >> I'm ready to boom boom shake the room

[01:12] with you today. Uh

[01:14] >> it's good to be back. Yeah, thanks so

[01:16] much. And what a topic. What a time.

[01:19] >> What a place.

[01:20] >> E3, man.

[01:21] >> We And we shared an E3 together that

[01:24] we'll get to and it was a very good

[01:25] time. We have some very good stories to

[01:27] share that I don't know if we've talked

[01:29] about before.

[01:30] >> Uh in brackets at least. Uh there's

[01:33] probably still stories we can't share

[01:35] for legal and sexual reasons, but either

[01:38] try. There's there's things to discuss.

[01:41] >> But of course, we're not alone. In the

[01:44] other chair, we have Mark, "My body is

[01:47] ready." Dles,

[01:49] >> I I am so impressed with that intro you

[01:51] did. Like, usually you have to be like,

[01:53] "Wait, nope. Nope. I want to do it

[01:54] again." Like, you just, man, you just

[01:56] went for that one and it's like the best

[01:58] one. Like, man, wow. You didn't even

[02:01] write that down.

[02:03] You know, I was ready, baby. Just Just

[02:05] like your body. Your Yeah. All All our

[02:07] bodies are ready. Indeed. Including the

[02:10] fourth man. Not the third man. The

[02:12] fourth man. I'm afraid this is not uh

[02:15] you know, mid90s.

[02:17] Wo. Here. It's the man himself, Cory

[02:20] Carlson.

[02:22] >> Hey, I'm back. Ready to go. Uh, you

[02:25] know, that little I was absent last

[02:27] week. No experience with a 007 really.

[02:30] Uh, so it's it's good to be back talking

[02:32] about E3 and maybe a little little CES,

[02:36] >> but of course there is a little CES

[02:37] action in here. Uh, but before that,

[02:39] head over to digitalfoundry.net, check

[02:41] out the Patreon. We really appreciate

[02:44] the support of you guys making this

[02:45] podcast possible. And yes, I swear there

[02:47] will be some more proper DF Retro

[02:49] episodes coming soon. So, look out for

[02:51] that. But for now, let's hop into the

[02:54] news/ what we've been playing section of

[02:56] the show where we talk about the news

[02:58] and what we've been playing.

[03:03] Starting with what Tri's been playing. I

[03:06] want to talk about this. Ultimate Ghosts

[03:08] and Goblins for the PSP. Famously

[03:10] trashed by Jeremy Parish. It created a

[03:13] nightmare for him as people were very

[03:15] angry about this. Uh but this game is

[03:18] extremely controversial, I think,

[03:20] because it's super hard as you'd expect

[03:22] from the series, but in some rather

[03:24] unique ways. And try I can't believe it.

[03:28] you've actually sat down and you went

[03:29] through the whole thing and you finished

[03:32] it. So, this is not the Kai version. The

[03:34] Kai version is like an overhauled

[03:36] alternate version that was released in

[03:37] Japan. This is the original version.

[03:39] >> Yeah, I played the American release. So,

[03:42] uh it it it is infamously brutal. Uh but

[03:45] I still was not prepared for just how

[03:47] brutal it is. I mean, it's it's the kind

[03:49] of thing that you're going through it

[03:50] and you're you're you're like starting

[03:51] to question if the if you even like this

[03:54] series like like wait what did I enjoy

[03:57] these games when I played the other

[03:59] ones? I can't remember for sure. Uh but

[04:02] yeah, this uh I I just wanted to talk

[04:03] about this because it it really was a

[04:06] uniquely brutal experience that I have

[04:09] gone through. uh played it over uh four

[04:13] weeks of Monday backloggery streams uh

[04:17] which are like four plus hour streams.

[04:19] So it yeah it it took a lot of time and

[04:21] effort. Um

[04:23] kind of what's interesting about how

[04:26] brutal this game is is that it kind of

[04:30] lulls you into this sense of security

[04:32] from time to time because you know

[04:35] you've got a save system as you would

[04:37] expect from the PSP. you've got uh the

[04:40] uh you know checkpoints before every

[04:42] boss and the bosses are actually all

[04:45] pretty easy. Uh so there's little things

[04:49] like that. There are warp stabs. There's

[04:51] this kind of uh system where things that

[04:55] you uh need to proceed to the final

[04:59] boss. Uh, and some other other optional

[05:02] items that sort of actually do make a a

[05:04] big difference in playability like um uh

[05:07] the ability to uh you know uh reduce

[05:10] your magic costs and uh uh other things

[05:14] like that. Uh you get uh you can use

[05:17] flying armor, you can use a shield that

[05:20] actually let you fly for a while. Like

[05:21] there's all these little things. It's

[05:22] like oh this seems nice. This seems

[05:24] nice. Uh but then you think, okay,

[05:27] instead of making you replay the whole

[05:29] game from the beginning, you know, the

[05:31] the infamous ghosts and goblins loop, uh

[05:35] that's what the warp stabs are because

[05:36] you do have to revisit the levels and

[05:38] collect these gold rings and other

[05:40] things so you can proceed to the final

[05:41] boss. And you're like, "Okay, that's a

[05:43] clever twist." And you go, you fight

[05:46] Asteroth, as you do, and you still have

[05:50] to loop the whole game again. And they

[05:52] take away all your warp stavs. Uh, and

[05:54] you have to find every single red chest

[05:56] in the game. You know, those hidden

[05:58] chests that just, you know, you you jump

[06:00] past a random trigger point and they

[06:02] appear. You have to find every single

[06:05] ring, which I think there's 33 gold

[06:06] rings in the game. You have to find all

[06:09] of these things to actually proceed to

[06:13] the true final boss. And it it's just it

[06:16] is it's madness. It is madness. That's

[06:20] just to say nothing of the the normal

[06:22] ghosts and goblins difficulty. I mean,

[06:24] even though yes, you get flying armor,

[06:27] flying shields, uh all these nice

[06:30] things,

[06:31] and you end up beating the levels like

[06:34] at least four times over the course of

[06:37] finishing the game. It's still it still

[06:40] continues to be so difficult. Uh, I I

[06:42] know John, you have more experience with

[06:44] the Kai version, which I think modified

[06:46] some things and maybe makes it a little

[06:48] more approachable, but you still never

[06:50] finished it.

[06:51] >> No, I never really did. Uh, it's it's

[06:55] such a what what a brutal game this is,

[06:58] right? Like it's just it's exactly like

[07:00] you said where the redesign kind of is

[07:04] like a balanced tweak and it plays out

[07:07] more like the arcade game and it has

[07:09] like different enemy placements and it

[07:12] actually has like limited continues and

[07:13] stuff like that. So it kind of remove

[07:15] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[07:17] >> And it actually, you know, has proper

[07:19] lives and stuff so it plays out more

[07:22] like the originals, I guess you could

[07:24] say. Um, and it's like a you do like a

[07:28] loop I think to finish it and then you

[07:29] do the second loop, but it's not like

[07:31] the whole warp staff stuff. You're not

[07:32] like walking around and doing all that.

[07:34] So, it basically just makes it a more

[07:36] straightforward version of the game.

[07:37] >> Yeah, like I said, the warp stabs

[07:40] basically make it so you end up playing

[07:42] every level at least four times most

[07:44] likely. It's it's it's insane. Uh, yeah,

[07:48] >> I do think it's a cool game. It's an

[07:50] interesting idea. It's just it's very

[07:52] very brutal. But I mean, the series is

[07:54] known for that. And I think it's cool

[07:56] that they tried to do something

[07:58] different with it. You know, they were

[08:00] like, "How can we evolve this formula?"

[08:02] >> Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, Corey, I'm hoping

[08:04] that when I get around to what was the

[08:07] new one called, uh, Rebirth or

[08:09] >> Resurrection.

[08:10] >> Oh, Resurrection.

[08:12] >> I I I mean, you it didn't take you that

[08:14] long to get through that one, right?

[08:16] >> No, no, no. I think that that one dialed

[08:19] back a lot of the annoying stuff that

[08:21] was in

[08:22] >> was was in uh uh Ultimate, but uh and

[08:26] and kind of goes back to what is was fun

[08:28] about the original ones, specifically

[08:30] the first two, especially the way that

[08:31] it recycles well, I guess, the first

[08:34] three. So, it recycles levels from those

[08:36] games.

[08:37] >> Basically, I'm glad I did it. You know,

[08:40] I I get very stubborn about beating

[08:43] games by the original rules. you know, I

[08:45] don't like using save states or, you

[08:48] know, modifications to make them nicer.

[08:50] You know, I I I'm glad that stuff exists

[08:52] for people who want it, but there's

[08:53] always this voice in the back of my head

[08:55] that's just like, you're not playing it

[08:57] by the the real vanilla rules of the

[09:00] game. So, I don't recommend anyone play

[09:03] through this game the way I did. Uh, but

[09:06] I am glad I did it, you know.

[09:09] >> So, the question is, did you did you

[09:10] play on real PSP hardware? Uh, I ended

[09:13] up playing on PSTV because so I was

[09:16] originally going to play on real PSP,

[09:19] but uh I've taken all of my batteries

[09:23] out of my PSPs uh out of fear of battery

[09:26] bloat and I very quickly realized that

[09:31] it was going to be a problem because uh

[09:34] just a little bit in in my PSP 3000 just

[09:37] a little bit of wiggling on that uh

[09:39] power connector can cause it to the

[09:42] system to reset. So that's annoying.

[09:45] >> Okay.

[09:45] >> Yeah. So I ultimately played on PSTV,

[09:49] but the input lag wasn't too bad. I used

[09:51] a DualShock 3, you know, uh I had to use

[09:55] Adrenaline, uh on my hacked PSTV, uh

[09:58] which can have a good bit of input lag,

[10:01] but it's better if you use a DualShock 3

[10:04] instead of a DualShock 4. Um, but the

[10:07] game is still 30 frames per second,

[10:09] which if the pace the game moves is not

[10:12] that terrible. Um, but it was it was an

[10:17] okay way to play the game, but I I would

[10:19] have preferred to have played on

[10:20] original hardware. But yeah, the reason

[10:23] I mentioned that try is that actually

[10:24] ties into a second bit of news I wanted

[10:26] to mention today. Uh from a developer go

[10:29] note going by M-SID,

[10:32] a new solution for PSP was released

[10:34] allowing you to overclock the system way

[10:37] beyond the previously maximum 333 MHz.

[10:42] Most systems can now reach 463 MHz, but

[10:46] I think it's actually possible to go as

[10:48] high as like 500 something. And

[10:51] basically this massive increase in clock

[10:54] speed allows you to overcome performance

[10:57] in games that had issues. So like now

[10:59] you can play something like Outrun 2 at

[11:00] a very smooth 60 instead of an unstable

[11:03] 60 with the normal overclock and like a

[11:06] horrible 20 to 30 with the stock speeds.

[11:09] Uh it also means that some games have uh

[11:12] patches. A lot of the patches were

[11:14] designed for use on like the emulation,

[11:17] but you can actually apply them to real

[11:19] PSP games. And naturally, if you, you

[11:22] know, normally if you just put the patch

[11:23] on, you're just un you're just removing

[11:25] the frame rate cap, right? And that

[11:27] doesn't necessarily mean your experience

[11:28] is good. But now you can overclock it so

[11:30] far. This means we can take a bunch of

[11:32] games that were previously limited up to

[11:34] like 60 or even just a stable 30. So

[11:38] like it's so the this game for instance,

[11:41] Ultimate Ghouls and Ghost does have a

[11:42] patch from what I can tell that allows

[11:44] you to run it at 60. So conceivably with

[11:47] this overclocked then you should be able

[11:48] to run it at 60 on the real hardware. My

[11:51] my fallback solution was actually going

[11:53] to be PPSSP,

[11:55] but uh it's interesting you Yeah, it's

[11:58] interesting you bring up the emulation

[12:00] though because uh this was the first

[12:03] time I mean I've not used PSPsPP

[12:07] super extensively, but this was the

[12:09] first time I actually ran into a visual

[12:11] glitch that I could not get rid of.

[12:13] Whoa.

[12:13] >> Um where the bloom effect like gets

[12:16] really glitchy uh in Ultimate Ghost and

[12:18] Goblins. You can see it from the very

[12:20] first level. Anytime there's like an

[12:22] enemy that has like a bloom effect and

[12:24] the background like also does a bloom

[12:26] effect that like snaps on off it's

[12:28] combat. Uh and I could not figure out

[12:30] how to get rid of it. It also happened

[12:31] for you know my friend Jumble who was

[12:33] playing it alongside me on the back

[12:35] lotteryy streams. Um

[12:38] he he he was like what? I don't see the

[12:40] problem. And I pointed out and he's like

[12:41] oh okay I don't care. I'm like no I will

[12:43] not play this game this way. So, I spent

[12:46] a bunch of time getting it running on my

[12:49] hacked PSTV instead. Uh, just so I

[12:52] wouldn't have to deal with that issue.

[12:53] If anyone knows how to get rid of that

[12:56] bloom glitch in PPSSP in Ultimate Ghost

[12:59] and Goblins, please tell me because I'm

[13:00] very

[13:01] >> I love how you very curious.

[13:03] >> Spell it out every time

[13:05] >> because it would be it would be uh cool

[13:08] to play this with with a with a uh 60fps

[13:12] agree hack. Uh, and I would be curious

[13:14] to see that running on original hardware

[13:16] or uh can you use this uh mod on PSTV or

[13:21] VA? Do you know, John? Or

[13:23] >> I don't know cuz to use these patches

[13:26] involves there's like an application I

[13:28] forget what it's called that you use on

[13:29] a custom firmware system that allows you

[13:32] to like apply patches to games. And if

[13:35] you can do that on the PSP side of the

[13:37] PSTV, then it should work,

[13:39] >> right? I mean, in Adrenaline, right?

[13:42] It's like a whole PSP,

[13:44] >> right? So, it should technically be

[13:46] possible, I would imagine. And who

[13:48] knows? I mean, maybe the PSTV can be

[13:49] overclocked like crazy high.

[13:52] >> Yeah,

[13:52] >> because it's like

[13:53] >> it already has been, I think, to some

[13:55] extent for uh VA games on there.

[13:57] >> Yeah. And just by default, by the way,

[13:59] playing PSP games on a VA, it does run

[14:02] faster than a stock VA.

[14:04] >> Oh, I didn't know that.

[14:05] >> Yeah. Like I noticed

[14:06] >> Oh, you mean a stock PSP?

[14:08] >> Sorry. A stock PSP, right? So, like you

[14:12] play Maverick Hunter X for instance, it

[14:14] always hits that's a 60 FPS game, but

[14:16] whenever the boss shows up, there's

[14:18] always a lot of slowdown for that logo

[14:20] crawl. But on a PS Vita, it just

[14:22] naturally runs at full speed. It also

[14:24] runs at full speed on a normal 333

[14:26] overclocked VA. It's um so it was always

[14:30] just like limited by the hardware.

[14:32] >> I did not know that. Interesting. To be

[14:34] honest, I've never really been clear on

[14:35] what the backwards compatibility

[14:37] mechanism for PSP on VA is. Like I don't

[14:40] know if it's hardware emulation quasi

[14:43] emulation. I've never known.

[14:45] >> It's I I actually forget. I may have

[14:48] known at some point, but I don't

[14:49] remember off the top of my head.

[14:51] >> I just know that the resolution they

[14:52] picked for VA is exactly four times the

[14:55] pixel count, so everything would scale

[14:57] super cleanly, which is

[14:58] >> two on X-axis. Yeah.

[15:00] >> Yep. Which was a good idea. So

[15:02] >> Oh, yeah.

[15:02] >> All right. Anyway,

[15:03] >> wait. Well, I do want to ask really

[15:05] quick. I want to ask Tri if he would

[15:06] rate this game higher than a two out of

[15:08] 10.

[15:09] Oh. Uh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean,

[15:12] I think I would give it

[15:15] >> a three.

[15:17] >> I'd probably give it a five.

[15:19] >> Okay.

[15:20] >> Out of 10.

[15:21] >> Out of 10.

[15:21] >> Okay. Not out of 50.

[15:25] >> Not out of 50. No.

[15:26] >> So, 2.5 out of five.

[15:28] >> Yeah.

[15:29] >> Slight slightly better.

[15:31] >> That's funny.

[15:32] >> Solid five. Yeah.

[15:33] >> I remember review.

[15:35] >> Yeah. I mean, and Jeremy got a lot of

[15:37] [ __ ] for it. I think unfairly so, cuz

[15:40] people aren't able to understand that

[15:42] everybody has different opinions on

[15:44] stuff. Uh, but either way, I like that

[15:48] game, but I do I did prefer the Mega Man

[15:50] remakes they did for PSP. I love

[15:53] Maverick Hunter X or Irregular Hunter X

[15:56] and Rockman Rockman. Those are freaking

[15:58] great.

[15:59] >> The voice acting in Maverick Hunter X in

[16:02] the US version is hilarious. X is so

[16:05] intense. He's He just screams every

[16:07] single line pretty much.

[16:08] >> Looks like you've gone maverick.

[16:10] >> Oh, dude. I need to check that.

[16:12] >> You're insane.

[16:14] >> You're insane.

[16:16] >> I I do enjoy those Mega Man games on PSP

[16:19] a whole heck of a lot.

[16:20] >> Yeah.

[16:20] >> Yeah, they're great. They're great.

[16:22] >> I can understand why why uh the Mega Man

[16:26] one remake was not Mega Man Powered Up

[16:29] didn't sell very well. I mean, I think

[16:31] that for people that

[16:32] >> were looking for Mega Man games, seeing

[16:34] something that looked like that was

[16:36] probably not very uh appealing, but I

[16:40] thought it was great. It was very fun.

[16:41] It was like, you know, like like a

[16:42] chibiized uh kid version of it.

[16:45] >> Yeah.

[16:46] >> Today, we'll probably

[16:49] >> Yes. Yeah.

[16:50] >> Can Can we just pivot to doing a PSP

[16:53] episode?

[16:55] Uh, we need

[16:56] >> I'm all I'm on a I'm all in a P I'm all

[16:59] in a PSP mood now. I'm joking. Of

[17:01] course,

[17:01] >> I'm not because I have a bloated

[17:03] Yesterday I was dealing with my battery

[17:06] and it's bloated. So, uh I don't I can't

[17:09] play it right now.

[17:10] >> Uh which frustrates me because it it's

[17:12] only a year since I changed it out.

[17:15] >> So,

[17:16] >> check those lithium ion batteries,

[17:18] everybody.

[17:18] >> That's a new battery that you bought.

[17:20] >> Yeah, it's a third party one though, so

[17:22] I'm I'm suspecting something to do with

[17:25] that.

[17:25] >> That's crazy. Sitting in a warehouse for

[17:28] 10 years. I I really need I really need

[17:31] to buy some kind of replacement battery

[17:32] for my PSP. Maybe people in the comments

[17:35] can give us some uh some some good links

[17:38] to good ones because uh it it is

[17:40] difficult to play my PSP without battery

[17:42] in it because I am so nervous about

[17:45] >> wiggling that power adapter. And

[17:47] >> man, I I have never had a swollen

[17:49] battery on any of my PSPs, including my

[17:51] launch day one. They're perfect. They

[17:53] still work.

[17:54] >> People just like overwhelmingly

[17:56] recommend that you take them out as a

[17:57] precaution.

[17:58] >> No. Yeah, I agree. It's just I'm I'm

[18:00] surprised because like they all still

[18:03] work. Uh

[18:05] >> mine did too when I took them out, but I

[18:07] I

[18:07] >> The system from that era that impresses

[18:09] me the most though is the the Game Boy

[18:12] Micro.

[18:13] >> Yeah,

[18:13] >> cuz like

[18:14] >> I haven't used the Micro that much in a

[18:16] long time because it's so small, right?

[18:18] That's the whole thing. But uh I turned

[18:21] mine on in the last month because I saw

[18:22] it in a drawer. I haven't charged it in

[18:25] like 10 years. It still turns on.

[18:27] >> Yeah. I I I literally

[18:30] >> How?

[18:31] >> I had literally never even charged mine

[18:33] until maybe like six years ago.

[18:37] >> Because I like I bought it more as like

[18:39] a collector's item just because I at

[18:40] that time I had every Game Boy. I'm

[18:42] like, "Okay, I'm going to buy the

[18:43] Famicom

[18:45] >> uh Game Boy Micro. I used it in a couple

[18:48] of videos but never like really played

[18:51] it. And then I was like setting up like

[18:53] a Game Boy charging station. I'm like I

[18:55] literally don't even know what power

[18:56] adapter goes on this. I don't recognize

[18:58] this port. And then I found the adapter

[19:00] and it still had the the zip uh the the

[19:02] like the twist tie on it. I'm like I

[19:05] literally never charged this thing and

[19:07] it just

[19:07] >> and the DS the uh well at least the DS

[19:10] uh light definitely had a battery that

[19:12] just lasted forever. I think we're gonna

[19:14] see a huge epidemic though in the next

[19:16] 10 years where people's batteries are

[19:18] just going to bulge like they're gonna

[19:19] find their old systems in a drawer and

[19:21] it's just gonna be like cracked open and

[19:24] stuff from the the battery experience.

[19:26] >> Yeah, that's a shame, man. I I

[19:28] >> controllers, all kinds of stuff is going

[19:30] to happen with

[19:31] >> Oh boy. Yep. But anyway, we'll get to

[19:35] that once our controllers start

[19:36] exploding. But for now, let's move on to

[19:38] the next bit of of news. Uh, one that

[19:42] really excited me as well, Castlevania

[19:44] Circle of the Moon is being ported to

[19:47] the Sega Genesis Mega Drive and there's

[19:50] a full demo out. That's the entire first

[19:52] area of that game. We talked about this

[19:54] on our GBA launch episode. This was the

[19:57] launch Castlevania for Game Boy Advance.

[20:00] And yeah, it now is like it's crazy.

[20:04] It's really cool to see. And it's a

[20:07] weird combo because they haven't really

[20:10] they tried very closely or they tried

[20:13] very hard to retain the original art,

[20:15] right? So all the sprites, background

[20:17] ties, it's all derived from GBA, but

[20:19] obviously the pallet's been shifted to

[20:21] work in the Mega Drive, but uh they've

[20:25] kept the pixel size, which basically

[20:27] means now it just increases the field of

[20:30] view that you see. The original game is

[20:31] more widescreen with that with that sort

[20:33] of GBA aspect ratio and now it's like

[20:35] proper 4x3 which basically means you see

[20:38] more of the game world above and below.

[20:41] Uh but other than that like it feels

[20:43] like surprisingly faithful. Like yes

[20:46] fewer colors. You can certainly tell

[20:48] that. But I feel like they did a good

[20:49] job with the conversion and the

[20:51] soundtrack conversion is awesome. It

[20:53] sounds really good on that sound chip.

[20:56] It's a really nice version of the music.

[20:58] I have not tried this yet, but I I I'm

[21:01] really curious about how it was ported

[21:03] technically because if you're increasing

[21:05] the field of view like you know are are

[21:07] they actually like relying on the

[21:09] original game code underneath it and

[21:13] >> I don't know does that not create

[21:14] >> problem being rebuilt with like SGDK

[21:18] >> or something like that. So,

[21:20] >> but

[21:21] >> yeah, probably

[21:23] >> if you look at that first area like that

[21:25] first cut scene, right?

[21:27] >> You you see the top is like framed like

[21:29] the Game Boy Advance screen, but you

[21:31] actually see the brick area below the

[21:33] floor, which is where you're going to

[21:35] drop to next, but it's almost like, you

[21:37] know, you're seeing what you shouldn't

[21:38] see.

[21:39] >> Yeah.

[21:39] >> But it works. It works. Okay.

[21:43] >> Uh it's cool seeing these ports though

[21:44] to the uh the Mega Drive or Genesis. Uh

[21:47] because recently there was a um I think

[21:50] this has been in work in the works for a

[21:51] while, but there was a Rondo of Blood

[21:53] port also to the Mega Drive,

[21:55] >> right?

[21:56] >> And the Symphony of the Night.

[21:58] >> Um

[21:59] >> yeah,

[21:59] >> and yeah, there's plenty of like ports

[22:02] being done that we've seen like one

[22:05] level demos of, so hopefully some of

[22:08] them will come to full fruition.

[22:10] >> I wonder what it is about Castlevania

[22:13] games that people just want to put those

[22:14] on the Genesis or Mega Drive. I mean,

[22:18] the Mega Drive is just popular to work

[22:20] on. And I do think part of it, people

[22:22] love the system, but I do think part of

[22:23] it is that because it's a Motorola uh

[22:26] 68,000based system. It's just like that

[22:29] was such a prolific CPU and it's one

[22:33] that people like working with that I

[22:34] think it makes it like a really great

[22:36] candidate for just, you know, porting

[22:38] stuff. Plus, SGDK

[22:42] uh is awesome and it's really open it's

[22:45] opened the door to like just like making

[22:47] it easy to actually develop games for

[22:49] the system. I mean even stuff like

[22:51] Earthon I think uses it, right?

[22:53] >> Yeah. which

[22:55] >> so

[22:56] >> so like old school seg guys guys that

[22:59] worked on this hardware are still like

[23:01] using it and embracing it and it is just

[23:03] like a development environment for the

[23:05] Mega Drive that handles a lot of the

[23:07] annoying stuff that you might have

[23:08] otherwise had to deal with from back

[23:10] then. So I think that is just awesome.

[23:12] Yeah, it's a question that comes up a

[23:14] lot with the aftermarket stuff is why

[23:16] there's so much focus on Mega Drive. And

[23:18] it really just comes down to

[23:19] documentation and available tools

[23:21] because Super Nintendo is getting more

[23:25] focus now, but for many years, uh, you

[23:28] did see a few like um that fighting

[23:30] game, which I forget, Undead Something,

[23:33] and a few others. Um, but they're kind

[23:36] of

[23:36] >> Undead Nights or something. Yeah, Un

[23:38] Nightsights I think it was, which was

[23:39] from formers SNK people, but it runs

[23:42] like garbage.

[23:43] >> Um, and just uh it was a much more of a

[23:47] limited market for the Super Nintendo.

[23:49] And it really just came down to proper

[23:51] documentation and especially than tools,

[23:54] which the Mega Drive has had.

[23:55] >> Right. Right. Right.

[23:56] >> A 10-year run ahead of Super Nintendo.

[24:00] >> It it does. Exactly. It's actually

[24:02] that's one another one to mention real

[24:04] quick is uh Maldita

[24:06] >> Castillia.

[24:07] that that awesome game that's getting an

[24:09] official Mega Drive version and

[24:11] including a cart release. They actually

[24:13] released a demo just recently

[24:16] >> and it's really good. Right.

[24:17] >> Is that

[24:18] >> is that Chris Castillia from Loco?

[24:22] >> Correct. It's that game, but it's

[24:23] getting an actual Mega Drive port. So

[24:26] again, it's like

[24:28] >> it's just cool as heck to see this

[24:29] stuff. And I I love that the system

[24:31] remains so vibrant.

[24:32] >> And I do hope that Super NES starts to

[24:34] catch up. And also PC Engine like I mean

[24:37] there is some PC Engine homebrew and we

[24:40] have some of it but it's pretty rare. I

[24:41] feel like people don't make much for the

[24:43] PC Engine.

[24:44] >> Yeah, it was FX FX unit Yuki came out.

[24:47] Yep. And then the Jesse K Casper or

[24:51] something like the Indiana Jones like

[24:52] girl game.

[24:54] >> Um

[24:55] >> and I mean even as we record this, we

[24:57] just got an official announcement of

[24:59] Cuphead coming to Master System,

[25:01] >> right? So, I mean, like it's weird to

[25:04] see like these things officially coming

[25:07] back

[25:08] >> uh on release systems, but I love it. I

[25:10] mean, I' I've been collecting

[25:11] aftermarket stuff since early 2010s, if

[25:14] not a little bit before.

[25:16] >> Um, so for me, this is good news.

[25:19] >> And apparently, Cuphead is actually

[25:21] being developed and assembly.

[25:26] which uh a lot you know as I mentioned

[25:28] SGDK is super cool but and it has opened

[25:31] the door to making it easier to work on

[25:33] the system but if you go back like 10

[25:36] years you have something like Matt

[25:37] Phillips Tanglewood

[25:39] >> which he actually also did 100% like

[25:41] assembly build so like that was all like

[25:43] his own code figuring out the the system

[25:46] from scratch.

[25:47] >> Yeah.

[25:48] >> Which was really like on a real

[25:50] development yet.

[25:51] >> Yeah. Yeah. He actually used like real

[25:52] Sega development hardware to make it and

[25:55] everything like he really did it the old

[25:56] school pretty hard mode way I would say

[25:59] especially given that there's just not a

[26:01] lot of people that do it these days but

[26:03] SGDK has definitely helped a lot. So

[26:05] >> yeah, even Randy Lyndon came back for

[26:07] Doom Super Nintendo and that was done

[26:09] with some of that dev environment on

[26:12] AmIgga. Uh so he went back u

[26:15] >> to do it the old school way. So you

[26:17] could still do that. Uh which yeah is

[26:20] also really impressive and cool.

[26:23] >> Well, it's fun to be able to go to those

[26:25] old development environments and

[26:27] probably use everything that you've

[26:28] learned since. You know, it's very much

[26:30] the the you know, if I knew then what I

[26:32] know now

[26:33] >> type scenario.

[26:34] >> Exactly. All right. Um next up, actually

[26:37] connecting back to our conversation from

[26:39] earlier about Maverick Hunter X. You

[26:41] know, are you insane? Well, somebody

[26:43] wasn't saying because they decided to

[26:44] make a new Mega Man X game without

[26:46] Capcom and it's called Gemini X and it

[26:48] was revealed this week and our good

[26:50] friend Sean Bo actually did the

[26:52] soundtrack for it. Y

[26:53] >> and uh I think this looks mostly really

[26:57] cool except for the run cycle

[27:00] like like I feel like he's he's like

[27:01] he's like bent over and he's like

[27:04] >> it's very uh it's very robotic in a way

[27:06] which I guess uh kind of makes sense but

[27:09] the rest of his movements are much more

[27:10] dynamic. So,

[27:11] >> compare compared to raw actual like Mega

[27:14] Man X games. I think the animation needs

[27:16] more det.

[27:20] But because everything else

[27:21] aesthetically looks freaking great. Like

[27:23] I love the visual design, of course, the

[27:25] music, you know, everything they're

[27:26] going for here. It's like about 90% of

[27:29] the way to what I want from like a

[27:31] spiritual uh Mega Man X follow-up,

[27:34] right?

[27:34] >> Yeah. Yeah. This looks pretty cool.

[27:36] >> Yeah. Uh Comey Games have been around

[27:38] for a while. plus Julian Spilani's

[27:40] company up in Toronto. Uh

[27:42] >> oh, cool.

[27:43] >> Hence why Jean Bo is attached to it.

[27:46] >> Uh I really uh I got to see this a while

[27:49] ago, but it's finally announced. Uh so

[27:51] you all should go wishlist it. Uh it's a

[27:53] little bit a ways out, so I think some

[27:55] of our concerns can probably be answered

[27:58] by the time it comes out. I think the

[28:00] main character is definitely the thing I

[28:02] would point out needing a little bit

[28:03] more work. Um, but it's an interesting

[28:05] concept of combining Metroid Vania with

[28:08] Mega Man X. Uh, you've kind of seen

[28:10] hints of it in actual Mega Man game,

[28:13] Mega Man X games in the past, right?

[28:15] >> But this one's kind of fully fulfilling

[28:18] that merge.

[28:19] >> So, uh, I'm interested in seeing where

[28:21] this game goes.

[28:22] >> Does visually look great. I love like

[28:24] the use of color and everything in it.

[28:26] >> Yeah.

[28:27] >> I'm looking at it on on Steam. I I I've

[28:29] literally just now wishlisted it on the

[28:31] steering

[28:33] >> and you should too.

[28:36] Looking good. Looking good. But there's

[28:38] one more topic before we get to the meat

[28:40] of the show. Uh this is one that I

[28:42] haven't gotten one to check out yet, but

[28:44] try, you've been looking at the Pixel

[28:45] Effects Morph 2K lately, and I think Bob

[28:49] put up something on this already from

[28:50] Retro RGB.

[28:51] >> Yeah. Um, and basically the pitch here

[28:56] is this is from Pixel FX. It's like a

[28:59] modern scaler that's for targeting

[29:01] 1080p, but it's sold at a much much

[29:04] lower price than the other, you know,

[29:06] scaler options out there right now,

[29:08] including the the bigger morph and of

[29:11] course the RetroTink 4K. So, as a budget

[29:14] option try, how do you feel about this?

[29:17] >> Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, I think

[29:19] ultimately a a product is only as good

[29:21] as its price, right? And when you see

[29:24] what the price is, which is uh $200,

[29:28] uh I think it makes a lot of sense

[29:30] because it does fit in neatly into a

[29:34] place that uh segment of the market

[29:37] that's not really served. uh because

[29:39] this is the lowest priced

[29:42] uh kind of uh scaler that's designed for

[29:46] gaming from the ground up that includes

[29:48] motion adaptive D interlacing. Um you

[29:52] know because if you go down to say the

[29:53] OSSC the original OSSC that's still like

[29:58] mid $100ish

[30:00] probably 130 to 150 160 depending on

[30:03] what model you buy. uh which is a

[30:06] fantastic option if you're not really

[30:07] playing any uh interlaced content. Uh I

[30:11] mean that that thing still looks so

[30:12] good. Every time I try it out again I'm

[30:14] like man I forgot how good this thing

[30:16] is. Um and then you know of course

[30:19] there's the Retro Tink 2X options. I I'm

[30:21] a big proponent of the 2x mini for

[30:24] people who just use composite or Svideo.

[30:26] Great option for people who just want to

[30:28] play an unmodified uh N64 for instance.

[30:31] Um, but then if you look at the um the

[30:34] other mid-range options, I mean, you

[30:36] know, let's make no mistake, the

[30:37] RetroTink 4K Pro is still the best of

[30:40] the best and the 4K CE is uh not too

[30:45] many steps down from that as well. Um,

[30:48] but if you look at say at the tier of

[30:50] product that the the Morph 2K is

[30:52] competing with, it's competing more with

[30:54] the OSSC Pro and the RetroTink 5X. Um,

[31:00] and those are both over $300 and this is

[31:04] $200. So

[31:05] >> 5X just got an update, too, so it's

[31:07] still supported.

[31:08] >> Oh, yeah. I mean, the 5X is a fantastic

[31:10] product. And to be honest, I I have not

[31:14] >> uh spent quite enough time with this yet

[31:16] to really assess like how close it is to

[31:21] the current state of the 5X. And to be

[31:24] honest, I've not spent enough time with

[31:25] the current firmware of the 5X to really

[31:28] assess because my myQi does go insane on

[31:32] keeping those things up to date. Um, but

[31:35] even if this doesn't end up quite

[31:37] matching the 5X, the fact of the matter

[31:39] is it's a whole lot cheaper and does

[31:42] probably most of what most people would

[31:46] want out of it. And I haven't really

[31:48] spent any time looking at like the CRT

[31:50] effects and stuff. You know, obviously

[31:52] at 1080p you're not going to be getting

[31:55] quite as high fidelity on that stuff,

[31:57] but it can still look good. Um, and I I

[32:00] think this can go up to 1200p and and

[32:02] maybe 1440p.

[32:04] I think it does 1440p as well. So, just

[32:07] like the 5X, the 5X does that as well.

[32:09] And I I believe the OSSC Pro does as

[32:12] well. Um, but you know, the OSSC Pro

[32:15] much more sort of specialist enthusiast

[32:18] device if you really want to kind of get

[32:19] into the nuts and bolts of the sampling

[32:22] and upscaling and uh it has its add-on

[32:25] boards and stuff like that.

[32:26] >> Well, that's the thing. The the uh the

[32:29] OSSC Pro is kind of becoming like the

[32:31] deacto downscaling Yeah. device.

[32:34] >> Yeah. And so this however from from what

[32:37] I've used of it, it's like shockingly

[32:40] simple. uh you know if you just want to

[32:42] like set it and go. I mean, you know, it

[32:45] just automatically

[32:47] samples correctly for uh you know, the

[32:51] system you've plugged into it. Uh you

[32:54] can hit the red button to do an autocrop

[32:56] that, you know, fills the screen larger.

[32:59] Um yeah, so uh I'll I'll make some

[33:02] comparisons for Corey, but I I think

[33:05] that price point is very powerful. um

[33:07] you know they they they clearly saw that

[33:10] okay here is a price point that is that

[33:14] market is not being met. You know it's

[33:15] kind of funny to think like we're you

[33:17] know

[33:18] >> people would have maybe turned their

[33:20] noses up at uh $200 upscaling a few

[33:23] years ago but now like uh original

[33:25] hardware retro gaming is starting to

[33:27] seem like the more affordable hobby

[33:29] compared to modern consoles and modern

[33:32] PC gaming. Uh, so yeah, I think it's

[33:35] it's just super cool to see um products,

[33:39] new electronics being able to be

[33:41] introduced at what feels like a very

[33:45] reasonable price. So, I I'm looking

[33:46] forward to putting more time into this.

[33:48] I want to do a video on my life and

[33:51] gaming that will be uh kind of looking

[33:54] at some of the other alternatives uh

[33:57] that that have come up uh in the

[33:59] intervene years since we've really kind

[34:01] of looked at some of the more mid-range

[34:03] stuff. Um so uh so yeah, I mean I I'm

[34:07] just I'm just really happy to see a

[34:09] product being offered at that price

[34:11] point. I think that's the most important

[34:13] thing. And from what I've tried so far,

[34:15] uh, it does it it's it does the job it

[34:18] needs to do, uh, for a $200 product and

[34:22] and then some, honestly. So, um, it's

[34:24] great. Really, really cool. All right,

[34:28] with that, we've cleared the news and

[34:30] it's time to move on to our historical

[34:33] E3 segment. So, get ready, grab yourself

[34:37] uh a snack, and pretend that we're about

[34:40] to have a the best press conference

[34:41] you've ever seen or not, but we're

[34:44] getting to it anyway. So, we'll be right

[34:46] back.

[34:58] early 95 uh there was a time where I

[35:01] subscribed to a magazine called

[35:02] Electronic Entertainment. It was E2

[35:05] Electronic Entertainment because it was

[35:08] those two words together. And it wasn't

[35:11] until shortly after that I started

[35:15] reading about something called E3 and I

[35:17] was like, wait, is this related to this

[35:19] magazine? Like what's going on? But no,

[35:21] it's an event. And uh even way back in

[35:25] the middle of 1995

[35:28] via the power of magazines,

[35:31] I was reading up on the things that were

[35:34] happening at E3 because E3 was the big

[35:37] show for video games. It ran from 1995

[35:41] until I guess roughly 20

[35:45] 21ish. like was it there was like an

[35:48] online version at one point I think

[35:50] during the pandemic

[35:53] >> but either way it has died off. I would

[35:55] say the final E3 was 2019. That was

[35:58] >> I mean that was the final real one.

[36:00] Yeah,

[36:00] >> right. Yeah. Which we were at.

[36:02] >> Yeah. We were at the tail end.

[36:06] >> Exactly. But before we talk about about

[36:08] that stuff and our experiences and

[36:10] different impressions and memories of

[36:12] E3, it is worth mentioning quickly like

[36:15] where it came from, right? Because

[36:17] before E3 1995, there was CES. There

[36:21] still is CES today, the Consumer

[36:23] Electronics Show. This is where

[36:24] companies around the world come to show

[36:26] off the latest electronics, gadgets, and

[36:28] now like everything AI powered because

[36:30] why not?

[36:32] >> Uh there's a lot of that happening. But

[36:34] back in the early 90s, this was kind of

[36:36] like the one of the only places where

[36:38] Nintendo and Sega and other game

[36:41] companies could really show off their

[36:43] new wares. But from what we understand,

[36:46] they didn't feel that they were being

[36:48] treated well. Often relegated to like

[36:50] outside areas, tents, you know,

[36:52] basically spots within the convention

[36:55] that were less than optimal compared to

[36:57] what everybody else was getting.

[36:59] >> Video games weren't cool.

[37:01] >> No, exactly. I think Sega even ran its

[37:03] own show a couple years somewhere in

[37:06] there. And it just it wasn't like there

[37:09] was no real American or English-speaking

[37:12] game show uh that was targeting um you

[37:16] know fans of of video games, right? I I

[37:19] don't know. Tokyo game show might have

[37:21] already been happening. Yeah, that was

[37:23] definitely that was

[37:24] >> there was there was definitely shows in

[37:26] Japan happening in the 80s 90s but

[37:29] elsewhere not so much.

[37:31] >> Uh but from what I understand one of the

[37:34] guys from GamePro, I think Pat Frell,

[37:38] uh who was part of the IDG group, which

[37:42] also might have been the group that

[37:43] published the electronic entertainment

[37:46] magazine.

[37:47] Um if I maybe not I what I can't. Yeah,

[37:51] it was IDG. It was IDG. So there's

[37:54] actually weirdly enough a relationship

[37:55] there directly.

[37:57] And those guys basically worked together

[38:00] to start the show. And this happened in

[38:02] 95 when CES was actually going to run a

[38:06] second show in Chicago in the summer.

[38:08] And they were kind of like giving

[38:10] publishers a choice like do you want to

[38:12] come to CES or do you want to come to

[38:13] E3? And eventually, I guess for whatever

[38:16] reason, uh the guys in charge of CES

[38:19] gave it up because Nintendo and other

[38:22] companies were going to go with CES

[38:24] while Sega and others were were going

[38:27] with E3. So, it was split. But when CES

[38:30] canled that show, everybody went ahead

[38:32] and invested money and effort into E3.

[38:35] And we got E3 1995, which happened at

[38:38] the LA Convention Center during its

[38:40] first year. And E3 1995, I think we can

[38:44] all agree, was a pretty huge one. I at

[38:47] the time I only read about this stuff in

[38:48] magazines. We've since seen a lot of

[38:50] footage,

[38:51] >> but this was the year where Sony and

[38:55] Sega basically brought their next

[38:57] generation consoles to the table in

[38:58] North America. They'd already launched

[39:00] in Japan back in '94, right? But Sega

[39:03] came to the show and launched the

[39:05] Saturn, right? This is that famous

[39:07] incident where yeah, Tom Kolinsky got up

[39:09] and said, "Hey, the Saturn's out right

[39:11] now."

[39:12] >> And um

[39:14] it didn't go well. Needless to say, they

[39:16] did not supply all their partners with

[39:18] it with enough units and there wasn't

[39:20] enough software at launch. It was

[39:22] considered a big mistake and I think it

[39:23] was sold for $399. And then famously,

[39:26] Sony comes to their press conference.

[39:28] They got Steve Race up there talking

[39:30] about it. He just gets up to the mic and

[39:31] says $299. Yeah,

[39:32] >> that's the price. And then mic drop,

[39:35] right? and that the rest is history.

[39:37] >> But there's so much more that happened

[39:39] at E3 beyond that, including a lot of

[39:41] Atari Jaguar stuff,

[39:44] >> but also like 32X and like basically

[39:47] everything you could imagine I would say

[39:50] like from video games at this time and

[39:51] it was a crazy time was happening at

[39:53] this show. So obviously I mean Nintendo

[39:57] was just bringing their wares, right?

[39:59] Like Killer Instinct Super NES, there's

[40:00] Donkey Kong Country 2. I think Secret of

[40:03] Evermore was there from Square. Uh

[40:06] Earthbound I think was represented a

[40:08] bunch of Game Boy games. You know, they

[40:09] had their their their wares and I think

[40:11] there may have been some teasing of what

[40:13] they wanted to do with Ultra 64,

[40:15] >> but this was not yet the year of that.

[40:18] Um meanwhile, I know Jaguar was there in

[40:21] a big way. I think Audi, you've you've

[40:25] probably seen a lot of this footage, but

[40:27] there is like hours of footage out there

[40:28] of like everything Jaguar, right?

[40:31] >> Yeah. It's kind of interesting to see

[40:32] just how much because when did that even

[40:35] I think it had been out on the market

[40:36] for a bit, but it was kind of like a

[40:38] second wind for them, right?

[40:40] >> Yeah. Late 93 maybe when it came out.

[40:44] >> So this is kind of like the last bastion

[40:46] of Atari trying to get this thing across

[40:48] and what a year to do it because you

[40:49] have all these like you have 3Dio still

[40:52] there as well, but you have like

[40:53] PlayStation Saturn right around the wing

[40:56] and it's just like there there's just no

[40:58] hope for it. It's It's like watching

[41:00] like, you know, Glendale Archives but in

[41:04] video game form when you see like the

[41:06] Jaguar floor at E3. Uh it's just very

[41:09] eerie and kind of sad. Uh but it's also

[41:12] very fittingly Jaguar. I wouldn't want

[41:14] it any other way. Um

[41:16] >> do the math. Do the math.

[41:19] >> Yeah, I did the math. It's zero.

[41:22] So stubber.

[41:26] >> Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I think that would

[41:28] have been the year there was a fair

[41:30] number of games shown there that never

[41:33] came out, including like I think that's

[41:35] where Rayman 32X was spotted at one

[41:38] point.

[41:39] >> Um

[41:40] >> Oh, was that where what was the one

[41:42] there was a like Thea Realm Fighters?

[41:45] Yeah.

[41:46] >> For Jaguar. Was that shown there?

[41:47] Because I feel like there was prototypes

[41:49] of stuff that that never came out that

[41:51] were shown at the show as well.

[41:52] >> So the prototypes are now out. Uh thanks

[41:55] to Nick, our friend. uh who's always at

[41:57] JagFest. So, there's two prototypes of

[42:00] the realm fighters. For those who aren't

[42:01] aware of it, it is basically a digitized

[42:05] fighter with the original cast from

[42:06] Mortal Kombat 1 and two or some of them

[42:10] uh like Pacina and Hung and those guys.

[42:14] So, uh that was shown off there. Uh and

[42:17] based on the prototype we do have, I

[42:20] don't think it would have lit the Jaguar

[42:22] world on fire. Uh but um nonetheless,

[42:26] >> maybe in the negative negative sense.

[42:28] >> Yeah, maybe. Uh for the Jaguar is an

[42:31] interesting and somewhat technically

[42:34] uh goodlooking game. Uh but nonetheless,

[42:37] it was not what people wanted. Uh well,

[42:40] they didn't want a Jaguar, so I guess

[42:41] that's kind of the issue at hand to

[42:44] begin with. So,

[42:46] but that was shown off there. Another

[42:49] thing that was shown off audio and I

[42:51] don't know maybe you guys remember this

[42:52] but uh this was the year that Williams

[42:55] Entertainment and I guess Midway kind of

[42:57] like started to create their own ports

[43:00] and publish their own games including

[43:02] Mortal Kombat 3 for PlayStation which

[43:05] was not done by a claim, right?

[43:07] >> But at E3 that year they had multiple

[43:10] stage shows where they actually had

[43:12] performers come out on the stage

[43:15] representing they had Mortal Kombat

[43:17] characters. They had I think Doom

[43:20] >> Yep.

[43:20] >> related stuff happening. Wow.

[43:22] >> It was like a a whole event, right? And

[43:24] it's just it's hilarious. They're just

[43:26] like, "Oh, Mortal Kombat 3." And then

[43:28] this like stone door opens up and like

[43:31] uh they like should run out and it's

[43:33] like uh Liu Kang uh Jax and maybe Sony

[43:37] Blade.

[43:37] >> Sonia. Yeah, I think it's I think it is

[43:39] Carrie Hoskins actually.

[43:42] >> Oh, it's actually her. Okay. I think so

[43:43] because this was uh around the time

[43:45] where the MK live tour or live show was

[43:48] going on with them. I think it's the

[43:50] same actors that's on that live show at

[43:52] E3.

[43:53] >> Oh,

[43:53] >> so it's kind of like an extension of

[43:55] >> what they were doing there. It's on

[43:57] YouTube where you can see like they did

[43:58] a TV presentation on it and

[44:00] >> it's it's very hokey but also fantastic.

[44:04] >> Yeah. You know, it's it's interesting to

[44:05] me to think about, you know, having all

[44:07] that kind of show pizzazz going on and

[44:11] bringing in these people to perform and

[44:14] stuff when ultimately this is, you know,

[44:16] before the era of people being able to

[44:18] watch this stuff live. You know, they're

[44:20] they're mostly uh for journalists,

[44:23] right? So, like who are they really

[44:26] benefiting from all the money

[44:28] >> spent on this stuff at this time? I'm

[44:30] just curious.

[44:31] >> Not correct, Try.

[44:32] >> Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know.

[44:33] That's why I'm asking. I'm curious like

[44:35] what what was the benefit?

[44:38] >> The I would say the main purpose of the

[44:40] show back then was actually for retail

[44:43] and like sellers and other customers,

[44:45] right? It was like a direct

[44:47] communication line to everybody that

[44:49] would be purchasing the products for

[44:50] their stores and stocking this stuff.

[44:52] Right. Exactly. Yes. Journal journalists

[44:54] were there, but it was a trade show

[44:56] first and foremost. And these guys were

[44:58] there to be like, "Hey, Sears or

[45:01] Walmart,

[45:03] buy our buy our stuff. It's the best."

[45:05] You know, and so they put on big flashy

[45:07] shows for that. Right. I see.

[45:09] >> You can actually trace that.

[45:11] >> You can trace that sort of back to the

[45:13] American film market uh shows that were

[45:16] going on, which has been going on since

[45:18] the 70s, I think. And because you have a

[45:21] lot of international investors as well

[45:22] as wholesalers and such and it is kind

[45:26] of part of like they're coming from

[45:27] overseas with a lot of money and a lot

[45:30] of customers and they're seeing the

[45:32] great big American spectacle and that's

[45:35] kind of where and you American film

[45:37] market did that exact same thing for a

[45:40] lot like Canon films and all those kind

[45:42] of companies you've heard of of like the

[45:44] be movie genre. A lot of them would do

[45:46] the same for movies. So E3 was just kind

[45:50] of like an extension of that and that's

[45:52] kind of why you're having the BOF babes

[45:55] eventually. I think Boo Babes was even a

[45:57] thing by this point.

[45:58] >> Well, they were at CES.

[45:59] >> They were at CS. They were in, you know,

[46:02] cosplayers and stuff were in Tokyo uh in

[46:04] the mid 80s when the arcade uh trade

[46:07] shows were going on. So it's not a new

[46:09] concept or anything, but that that is

[46:11] kind of prevalent uh through all of the

[46:14] markets, not just video games.

[46:16] >> Yeah. So just you're just woo in the

[46:18] retailers.

[46:19] >> Yeah,

[46:20] >> exactly.

[46:21] >> And that so

[46:22] >> And it worked. It worked.

[46:24] >> Yeah, it absolutely did work. And

[46:26] that's, you know, that's kind of how it

[46:27] started off.

[46:28] >> Was this the same show where Killer

[46:30] Instinct had like their stage show with

[46:33] the dancers and stuff?

[46:34] >> That's possible because I know Killer

[46:36] Instinct was a big Super NES title that

[46:38] year,

[46:39] >> right?

[46:40] >> So

[46:40] >> that's on YouTube as well.

[46:42] >> Yeah, there's there's a lot of stuff out

[46:44] there thankfully. Some other things that

[46:46] happened that that event um the virtual

[46:48] boy was shown off again.

[46:50] >> Yeah.

[46:51] >> Um was it out yet? I can't remember when

[46:53] that actually launched.

[46:55] >> I think it was the summer.

[46:57] >> So this this would have been

[46:59] >> kind of like the last

[46:59] >> Okay. This would have been Nintendo's

[47:01] like major like push to launch this new

[47:04] system, right? They they did tease Ultra

[47:07] 64 at the show, but Virtual Boy was like

[47:09] their new machine. And I guess this

[47:10] would have been the show to have it at.

[47:13] And that's also something where I guess

[47:14] they would need to convince retailers to

[47:16] go for it. So having hands-on demo units

[47:18] of this thing was really important, but

[47:21] it was there. Uh Sony showed off stuff

[47:23] like Ridgeraer. I think Toshinden was

[47:26] there. Uh NBA Jam TE was in there. Few

[47:30] other games like that. And it I think it

[47:33] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sony made a big splash

[47:36] there. Uh, Sega of course had stuff like

[47:38] Panzer Dragoon on display, Virtue of

[47:41] Fighter, other games like that. I think

[47:44] I think Resident Evil was at least

[47:47] mentioned as in like this is something

[47:50] like in Capcom's like lineup coming at

[47:53] some point, but I don't think it was

[47:55] shown yet.

[47:57] And I think uh even stuff like Turo was

[47:59] shown or at least referenced as like

[48:01] this is a thing that's in development

[48:03] for the future because this wasn't the

[48:05] first year did did not focus on N64 yet

[48:09] because uh and let let's let's look at

[48:12] this. Let's kind of break this up. I

[48:14] want to look at first at E395 through

[48:16] 2000 and this kind of period and then

[48:19] we'll do like you know 2001 on to like

[48:21] 2005ish and then the period after that

[48:24] kind of

[48:25] >> before even going into that did you all

[48:27] discover this through magazines or like

[48:30] were you all aware of this in 95? Oh, it

[48:32] was definitely uh you know, I didn't

[48:34] know about E3 in 95, I guess, but you

[48:37] know, I because CES was still kind of a

[48:40] thing at that point

[48:41] >> because

[48:42] >> at least there was the two two a year at

[48:44] that point.

[48:44] >> I definitely had heard some news that

[48:46] must have surely come out of E3, but I

[48:49] was only, you know, I had only just

[48:52] gotten a Super Nintendo for Christmas

[48:54] 94. And before that, I only had NES and

[48:57] Game Boy, so I didn't have like the most

[48:59] current hottest stuff. Uh, and so I

[49:02] wasn't really following new games until

[49:05] pretty much this year actually. Like I

[49:08] was like, this was the year that I was

[49:09] starting to be like, I am looking

[49:11] forward to what's coming next. But I

[49:13] missed E3. I wasn't really reading G

[49:17] game magazines regularly yet. I didn't

[49:19] have any subscriptions. I actually, you

[49:21] know, I know this is after the good era

[49:24] of Nintendo Power, but I got a Nintendo

[49:25] Power subscription toward the end of 96.

[49:28] So the first time I was really aware of

[49:31] E3 would have been 97 where they were

[49:33] actually in Atlanta for two years. So I

[49:36] was under this impression for a number

[49:38] of years that oh this is a show in

[49:40] Atlanta. This is on the East Coast. Like

[49:42] this seemed kind of accessible to me.

[49:45] Like I kind of wanted to see if I could

[49:47] go. Um but then it was years later I

[49:50] realized like oh they was only there for

[49:52] two years. It's interesting when you say

[49:54] accessible because that was going to be

[49:56] kind of like the little thing I was

[49:58] going to share here was like for me I

[50:00] did discover this as it was, you know,

[50:02] in the magazines in 95 because I had EGM

[50:05] at GamePro. I subscribed to them and

[50:08] I've talked about it before on the show

[50:09] that like that kind of opened my eyes to

[50:11] so much stuff in the US that I just

[50:13] couldn't even dream of having because it

[50:15] was never released here and [ __ ] like

[50:16] this. But for me, I had grown up with

[50:20] the games market in Leipig. I never

[50:22] went, but in Germany there used to be

[50:24] like this big games market for

[50:26] Commodore, Amigga, PC games, some

[50:30] console as well, but that was kind of

[50:31] like a big show that was always noted in

[50:33] Commodore format and stuff like that.

[50:35] Uh, and that seemed super accessible to

[50:38] me. So, I was like, well, one day I can

[50:40] go see new Commodore games, I'm sure, in

[50:42] person. And then, you know, uh, they

[50:44] didn't last long enough for that. Uh, I

[50:47] did go to the Leipig show eventually,

[50:48] but not uh, in that era. But for me, the

[50:52] idea of even going to E3, especially as

[50:55] it grew from 95 and upwards to what

[50:57] we're going to talk about, that seemed

[50:59] complete inaccessible. And I, you know,

[51:02] I only dreamt of going, uh, especially

[51:05] as they started like live streaming them

[51:07] and whatnot. So, uh, it's interesting

[51:10] that you say that felt accessible

[51:12] because for a European like myself, it

[51:14] was completely inaccessible. Well, and

[51:16] there were ways to get like um uh some

[51:20] sort of like underage like press badge

[51:24] or something like that because I I wrote

[51:26] for a a website uh you know in my

[51:29] teenage years back then. Uh it was N64

[51:32] Code Palace and then later Techno

[51:34] Gaming. No one has ever heard of them.

[51:37] Uh but uh the the uh the guy that ran

[51:41] that site, he was actually a year or two

[51:44] younger than me, I think. I think a year

[51:45] younger than me and he did go to E3 a

[51:48] few years actually made some connections

[51:49] like he had like um uh connections with

[51:53] Ubisoft and stuff like that that he

[51:55] built up going to E3 just as like a

[51:57] 13-year-old kid and um we were actually

[52:01] able to get like we were obviously very

[52:03] very very low on their list but we did

[52:05] get like review copies of like PS1 and

[52:08] N64 and Dreamcast games and stuff. Uh so

[52:12] uh that was something that you were even

[52:15] even someone who's like a kid running a

[52:18] fan site uh in those days could actually

[52:21] get into E3. Um but I I think shortly

[52:25] after he went to those shows they you

[52:28] know it no one under I don't remember

[52:30] what the age was but uh I think you had

[52:33] to be like 18 or older or something to

[52:34] get in. Maybe 16 or older. I'm not sure

[52:37] but yeah it kind of became inaccessible

[52:40] for teenagers uh for for a time there.

[52:43] though.

[52:45] >> Indeed. Indeed. And actually I think

[52:47] about E3 like this period from 95 to

[52:50] maybe 98 those first three or four years

[52:53] whatever that was the year where E3 for

[52:56] me was viewed through magazines

[52:58] exclusively completely.

[52:59] >> And then once we got to 1999 I believe

[53:02] that's when we started to actually be

[53:04] able to experience it in video to a very

[53:07] limited degree. Well, I remember even 90

[53:11] at the very least 98 if not 97. I

[53:14] remember I distinctly remember uh

[53:18] downloading videos of like Ocarina of

[53:20] Time because I I I will never forget

[53:23] that like I get this downloading I go

[53:26] mow I go mow the lawn and it is still

[53:30] downloading and it's you know this tiny

[53:32] crappy quality video but you know

[53:35] uh modems back then at least what we had

[53:39] uh man it took it took so long to

[53:42] download those videos. Uh, but I

[53:45] remember watching the like just this

[53:47] tiny little crappy video of the forest

[53:49] temple and other Ocarina of Times

[53:51] videos. So, it had to have been at least

[53:53] 97 or 98 with some some video uploads to

[53:57] I don't know IGN64 and stuff like that

[54:00] probably.

[54:01] >> Actually, now that you mention it, they

[54:03] first showed it in like December 95 at

[54:06] Shina Kai, right? And I actually have

[54:08] these vague memories of seeing very

[54:11] early like there's very simple videos of

[54:14] it running when I was still in grade

[54:16] school because I watched it in the

[54:18] underground library at the grade school.

[54:20] This would have been 95 or early 96. So

[54:24] I guess there was there were ways to get

[54:27] some very limited videos. I think

[54:30] sometimes it actually came from like

[54:31] magazine discs as well.

[54:33] >> Yeah, I was gonna say PlayStation demo

[54:36] discs here. Some the thing about it

[54:38] though because we're going over now this

[54:39] stuff, but it's like at that time those

[54:42] clips were not highlighted so much as

[54:44] like an E3 thing. It was much more just

[54:46] like you're talking about like Arena

[54:48] Time and whatnot. It was just like

[54:49] people were s like trying to source

[54:51] that. I think when E3 became more like

[54:55] it's E3 time and now you can download

[54:57] and check out the stuff as an event was

[55:01] 98. Uh that's at least how I remember

[55:04] it.

[55:05] >> Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty sure this stuff

[55:06] was going on like concurrent when I was

[55:09] downloading that those videos, but it

[55:10] could have also been stuff from Spacew

[55:12] World. I mean, you know, I I'm not 100%

[55:16] positive, but but I do know that

[55:18] certainly before at least before Ocarina

[55:21] of Time came out, which would have been

[55:22] late 98, that, you know, I was very much

[55:25] involved with like seeking out uh videos

[55:28] of games I was excited about that were

[55:30] shown at these shows, whether it was E3

[55:32] or Tokyo Game Show or Spacew World,

[55:35] whatever. Oh, one other thing I didn't

[55:37] mention that was shown at E3 1995, and I

[55:39] did see this in the magazine was the

[55:41] Panasonic M2.

[55:43] >> Yeah, I note the M2 when I mentioned

[55:46] >> they were they this just shows how much

[55:48] stuff was at the first E3.

[55:51] >> And I remember specifically the

[55:52] screenshot in the magazine that I read

[55:55] showed it was like a cow standing next

[55:58] to a fence and they were showing off

[55:59] bilinear filtering by showing them

[56:02] standing next to the fence. In one shot

[56:04] it was super pixelated and the other it

[56:05] was super smooth. They're like this is

[56:07] what bilinear filtering can do. And I

[56:09] was like, "Huh?"

[56:10] >> I remember m Edge had like a huge roll

[56:13] out of information on the M2 and I was

[56:15] so I was so into D from Kenji that I was

[56:18] I was hyped for it

[56:20] >> which was also shown at E3.

[56:22] >> I think like video game esoterica

[56:25] I think he has like those demos like he

[56:29] actually physically has

[56:30] >> Okay.

[56:31] >> He has them. So, and maybe one day when

[56:34] we do like an episode about this, we can

[56:36] invite him on.

[56:37] >> So, yeah, E395 came and went. 96 was

[56:41] also in LA. And this was another big

[56:44] year. And again, I lived this mostly

[56:46] through magazines and some of them I

[56:47] very specifically remembered. One of the

[56:50] biggest pieces of news to come out of

[56:51] this show for me. This is the year that

[56:54] Unreal and Unreal Engine made its debut.

[56:57] Like Unreal Engine is so prevalent

[56:59] today, but it was E396

[57:01] where Epic first showed this off and

[57:04] unveiled like their next generation 3D

[57:06] engine. And this was at a time in the

[57:09] world where ID was about to launch

[57:11] Quake, Duke Nukem 3D was hitting. We

[57:13] knew about 3D Realms Prey. like this was

[57:16] like the the period where tons of

[57:18] first-person shooters and like 3D

[57:20] engines were all starting to take off in

[57:22] Epic of Jazz Jackra Rabbit fame and they

[57:24] threw their hat into the ring as well.

[57:27] That was a really big deal and I I

[57:29] specifically remember then that would

[57:30] dominate magazine covers off and on over

[57:33] the next few years where it' be like yes

[57:35] this is a screenshot and stuff like

[57:37] this. Uh it was it was crazy. It's

[57:40] called Unreal because it is. Um 96 also

[57:43] saw the the reveal the full reveal of

[57:46] Tomb Raider. Uh Starcraft was premiered.

[57:50] You know, Warcraft 2 was a huge deal at

[57:52] this time and I guess Diablo was either

[57:54] out or just about out. So Starcraft was

[57:57] their next big strategy game. We knew

[57:59] how big that would become. Uh this is

[58:01] also the year where um

[58:04] Naughty Dog unveiled Crash Bandicoot.

[58:07] You know, developers of Way of the

[58:08] Warrior 3. they came out with their very

[58:10] first as they called it like Sonic Sonic

[58:14] ass game or something where it's like

[58:16] where it was a 3D platformer where you

[58:18] run into the screen but this was also

[58:20] the year where we saw Super Mario 64

[58:22] right so Nintendo really brought the N64

[58:25] but this is like where 3D platform games

[58:29] really started to flourish this is where

[58:31] we really saw what developers who had

[58:32] been trying to figure it out finally

[58:34] started to unveil like obviously Naughty

[58:36] Dog was like hey what if we do a 2D

[58:38] style game but like you move into the

[58:40] camera. Nintendo went full open world

[58:42] with it. And I think this is the show

[58:44] famously where the guys at Idic that

[58:46] were making Bubsy

[58:47] >> 3D saw Mario and were like, "Oh, we're

[58:51] screwed."

[58:51] >> Yeah. I mean, poor poor guys, right? Cuz

[58:54] like

[58:55] >> you could totally get it cuz I I think

[58:58] if you go back and play Bubs 3D, it's

[59:00] never going to be a great game or

[59:01] anything, but it is interesting

[59:03] technically and they were trying to

[59:05] figure out something that everyone else

[59:06] was trying to figure out at the same

[59:08] time. Exactly.

[59:09] >> And then but then they saw Mario and

[59:10] it's just like we didn't figure this out

[59:13] and

[59:13] >> I mean Nintendo figured it out harder

[59:15] than anyone else for sure. But Crash is

[59:18] still good and

[59:19] >> much bigger budget. But

[59:22] >> and Tomb Raider does its own thing. You

[59:24] know, I I actually appreciate that all

[59:26] these games from this era were doing

[59:28] things differently. But yeah, obviously

[59:31] Nintendo's take became the template. I

[59:33] mean, Tomb Raider to me was like that's

[59:35] why I remember the most uh because to me

[59:38] that was I think I mentioned this before

[59:40] like

[59:40] >> it it was the natural evolution of like

[59:43] Flashback and the cinematic platformer

[59:47] which

[59:48] >> or cinematic action games, whatever you

[59:50] want to call them. And so I was super

[59:52] excited. I don't think I was as excited

[59:55] when I finally played it because I found

[59:56] it a little bit too puzzle heavy.

[59:58] >> Oh, I love it. But I mean, at the time I

[1:00:01] played it, I was just not in the mood

[1:00:04] for it. But now I really appreciate

[1:00:05] them.

[1:00:06] >> Yeah. I mean, it holds up today because

[1:00:09] developers didn't use Tomb Raider as the

[1:00:11] template going forward, right? And so it

[1:00:13] holds up just by virtue of there not

[1:00:15] really being anything like it. And they

[1:00:17] really did do it. I I think they did the

[1:00:21] game that they were trying to make. They

[1:00:22] did it correctly from the get-go. It's

[1:00:24] just that it's just that other

[1:00:26] developers didn't really copy it like

[1:00:28] they copied Mario 64 deep.

[1:00:30] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[1:00:32] >> But still, it was it was a very

[1:00:34] important game, right? And

[1:00:36] >> that's kind of the theme of E396 I'm

[1:00:38] finding is like this was like the year

[1:00:40] where like big things were happening.

[1:00:41] This was also when Capcom finally demoed

[1:00:44] Resident Evil again going to become a

[1:00:47] huge game. Uh less huge, but they showed

[1:00:49] off Star Gladiator, which was their

[1:00:52] first fighting game. Yeah, number one. I

[1:00:55] mean not

[1:00:56] >> Billstein or Billstein's nightmare or

[1:00:58] whatever. Nightmare of Billstein, the

[1:01:00] sequel.

[1:01:01] >> That's the second one. I think the first

[1:01:02] one is like Star Gladiator the final

[1:01:04] battle.

[1:01:05] >> Straight up won the final battle. Yeah.

[1:01:07] So, they were already big plans. That

[1:01:11] plays great though. And I actually do

[1:01:12] like the whole universe of

[1:01:15] Stargladiator. I bought that the day

[1:01:17] came out.

[1:01:18] >> So, yeah.

[1:01:19] >> Um, but yeah. It's also worth

[1:01:22] mentioning, I haven't mentioned Sega

[1:01:23] yet. Sega actually came out strong in

[1:01:25] 96. I mean, they had a bunch of stuff

[1:01:27] coming. I mean, they had um the big the

[1:01:30] big ones they showed at this show was

[1:01:31] Nights into Dreams and uh Sonic Extreme.

[1:01:35] Knights, of course, like they had like a

[1:01:37] full like uh Knights character and like

[1:01:39] the rings hanging from the ceiling of

[1:01:41] the convention floor and like lots of

[1:01:43] demo stations there and it was like,

[1:01:45] "Hey, here's the next game from the

[1:01:47] creators of Sonic the Hedgehog." That's

[1:01:49] kind of a big deal, right? Uh,

[1:01:51] meanwhile, Sonic Extreme, as we would

[1:01:53] find out, was not from them, and that

[1:01:56] was a whole different thing, but it was

[1:01:58] playable at the show floor. And I

[1:02:00] specifically remember reading about that

[1:02:02] in magazines and thinking like seeing

[1:02:04] those screenshots and like, whoa, like

[1:02:06] this is the Saturn's pretty capable,

[1:02:09] >> right? Like this is great.

[1:02:11] >> I remember being super hyped for it. And

[1:02:13] didn't, correct me if I'm wrong, John,

[1:02:15] but didn't like that, maybe not that

[1:02:17] demo, but one of the Sonic Extreme

[1:02:19] prototypes was based on like the boss

[1:02:22] battle engine for Knights and got them

[1:02:25] in trouble internally with Sega.

[1:02:27] >> Yeah, it sure did. Uh, Eugene Naka like

[1:02:29] lost his [ __ ] because he was insane from

[1:02:32] as we understand now. Um, but

[1:02:36] >> you still he can still find you.

[1:02:40] Now, what I will tell you this though,

[1:02:42] um, when Electronic Arts was showing off

[1:02:45] Road Rash, they showed off the nextG,

[1:02:48] like the Saturn and PlayStation versions

[1:02:50] at that E3. And in some of the footage I

[1:02:52] was watching for this again, do you know

[1:02:54] what they're displaying it on?

[1:02:56] NEC XM29s, the exact freaking monitor

[1:03:00] that I have and is broken and has been

[1:03:02] broken for a year, the the my favorite

[1:03:05] screen, and it's down. And I'm like,

[1:03:07] "Wait a minute. They're using XM29s

[1:03:09] there at the show floor and there's a

[1:03:11] bunch of them." And I'm just like,

[1:03:14] >> all destroyed.

[1:03:15] >> They're all destroyed, I'm sure, like in

[1:03:17] a landfill or like long gone. And that

[1:03:20] just makes me sad. But it shows that

[1:03:22] they had really good taste. I'm sure

[1:03:24] they chose them because like the Sony

[1:03:26] PVMs of the era, they were like cube-

[1:03:28] shaped and stackable and like, you know,

[1:03:30] really designed for shows like this, so

[1:03:32] >> it made sense.

[1:03:34] >> But damn.

[1:03:35] So E39 E396 again the magazine years for

[1:03:39] me but looking back it was such a huge

[1:03:41] show. Um and E397 I think kind of

[1:03:45] continued that somewhat 98 right and

[1:03:47] this was a weird one. Try you mentioned

[1:03:49] they moved to Atlanta.

[1:03:51] >> Yeah.

[1:03:52] >> As far as I can tell this was just down

[1:03:54] to like scheduling issues with the LA CC

[1:03:57] where they couldn't actually get in

[1:03:59] there as they wanted to and they had to

[1:04:00] move to Atlanta

[1:04:02] >> instead. they just needed another place

[1:04:04] to go and that's where it went. So,

[1:04:07] um, but this was the year that we got so

[1:04:11] 97. Uh, the biggest one for me and I

[1:04:14] remember this on covers was HalfLife.

[1:04:18] >> So, this is the beginning at all.

[1:04:21] >> Uh, I read, of course, I read a lot of

[1:04:22] PC gaming.

[1:04:23] >> Yeah, I was going to say I think we read

[1:04:24] different magazines, man.

[1:04:27] >> And

[1:04:28] it was a huge cover story. This was like

[1:04:31] the beginning of Valve. They had an

[1:04:33] interview with Gabe Newell, who had quit

[1:04:35] Microsoft and went to start the studio

[1:04:37] using the Quake engine. And famously,

[1:04:40] everything that was shown at E3 that

[1:04:42] year would end up not shipping at all

[1:04:44] because, as they would do again with

[1:04:46] HalfLife 2,

[1:04:47] >> they built the whole game and then

[1:04:49] decided it wasn't good enough and they

[1:04:51] scrapped it and they started over and

[1:04:53] rebuilt the whole game.

[1:04:54] >> So everything showed at E397 was just

[1:04:57] like their first stab at Halflife. Uh,

[1:05:00] and that was all those original

[1:05:02] screenshots. It has like the scientists

[1:05:03] that look like insane like are you

[1:05:06] insane is

[1:05:08] and they were uh, but it was cool and

[1:05:11] that that was a big deal on PC gaming

[1:05:14] magazines. This was also when Unreal

[1:05:15] itself like Unreal the game was shown

[1:05:18] off in more detail. In both HalfLife and

[1:05:20] Unreal, there are demos from this period

[1:05:23] that have been leaked out there. So, you

[1:05:25] can actually see this stuff and play it

[1:05:27] on period appropriate hardware. And I

[1:05:29] think that itself is super cool. I did a

[1:05:31] DFO in Unreal last year and like dug

[1:05:33] into all those old prototypes. There's

[1:05:35] so many of them and you can absolutely

[1:05:38] recreate all the screenshots from the

[1:05:40] magazines of that era which is so cool.

[1:05:45] But um on the game side uh the game

[1:05:48] console side rather this was when we saw

[1:05:51] Metal Gear Solid unveiled. Do you guys

[1:05:54] remember that revealed? This I remember

[1:05:57] it vividly.

[1:05:59] >> See, I just remember this from

[1:06:00] magazines.

[1:06:01] >> Really?

[1:06:02] >> Uh, this I remember this was actually

[1:06:06] this specifically from E3 was shown uh I

[1:06:10] would like to say was shown on Sky like

[1:06:13] the the British Channel during like a

[1:06:16] tech show segment. I just remember that

[1:06:19] it was being shown on TV and they were

[1:06:22] showing off Metal Gear from the E3 and

[1:06:26] they had no reference or idea of it. It

[1:06:29] was just kind of like this is what's

[1:06:30] coming. This was like this is one of the

[1:06:32] games. It's very kind of bypassing. Uh,

[1:06:36] but I remember just kind of being like

[1:06:37] Metal Gears coming back and like it

[1:06:39] looked like they were kind of I remember

[1:06:42] seeing that it was like kind of overhead

[1:06:44] and you were still walking in these same

[1:06:46] patterns as um on the NES and MSX

[1:06:50] because at this point I'd play the MSX

[1:06:51] games thanks to Tom and I was just like,

[1:06:54] "Wow okay."

[1:06:55] >> See, that's interesting because I didn't

[1:06:57] know about Metal Gear. I had never

[1:06:59] played the NES game. I had no

[1:07:01] familiarity with it. I did know

[1:07:04] Snatcher, but I didn't like associate

[1:07:06] the two or anything. I was just like,

[1:07:07] "Oh, it's like this." I I feel like the

[1:07:10] trailer was on something like maybe a

[1:07:13] demo disc or like somewhere cuz I can

[1:07:16] still recall. It was like a CGI. Yeah,

[1:07:18] it was probably it was probably the

[1:07:20] magazine, but it was like

[1:07:21] >> a CGI style trailer, right? Within

[1:07:24] >> like magazine or something.

[1:07:27] >> Yeah, it must have been something like

[1:07:28] It must have been something like that

[1:07:30] cuz I I definitely saw the trailer and

[1:07:32] remember thinking that looked cool. And

[1:07:34] that that was right around the time when

[1:07:35] I was starting to pay attention to

[1:07:37] consoles again. Even though I was like

[1:07:39] hardcore and PC, I was like, "Uh, maybe

[1:07:41] I need one of these."

[1:07:43] >> I would get Saturn and then a

[1:07:44] PlayStation, but not an N64. Sorry, try.

[1:07:47] I didn't get one till many years later.

[1:07:50] I mean, I was I was aware of when Metal

[1:07:52] Gear Solid released because I bought

[1:07:54] that on day one and I had played the NES

[1:07:57] game and I had played Snatcher. I'd

[1:07:58] gotten Snatcher on day one. So, I was I

[1:08:01] was familiar with Cojima's game at that

[1:08:03] time, but I just I I guess I probably

[1:08:05] didn't know him by name.

[1:08:07] >> No, no one did, man. Like if someone

[1:08:10] said it like maybe like James Milky like

[1:08:13] the people in the industry knew but like

[1:08:16] >> like even for me who were playing like

[1:08:18] the Oasis translated MSX games I had no

[1:08:21] idea about that name

[1:08:23] >> right

[1:08:24] >> interesting this was also the era of

[1:08:27] edutainment edutainment and like CDROM

[1:08:30] still exploding. So like the the Pippen

[1:08:33] atmark was there which is uh the Bandai

[1:08:37] uh Apple sort of like collaboration that

[1:08:40] they did and I think there was just more

[1:08:42] like that sort of stuff there but of

[1:08:45] course PlayStation itself was here. I

[1:08:47] think uh Tekken 3 was shown off there.

[1:08:51] Um DVD ROM started to appear on the PC.

[1:08:56] This was the year when you could start

[1:08:57] to buy a drive for your PC that was DVD.

[1:09:01] And this was like really early. Like DVD

[1:09:04] was so super new at this point. Uh like

[1:09:08] it was like super cutting edge. Most

[1:09:10] people did not have a DVD player, let

[1:09:12] alone a DVD ROM drive. But there was all

[1:09:15] this talk about, hey, what if you had a

[1:09:17] DVD drive in your computer and you could

[1:09:19] like get better video or like, you know,

[1:09:21] stuff like that,

[1:09:22] >> more space and better video. And yeah, I

[1:09:25] mean, you started seeing articles about

[1:09:27] DVD in like the mid 90s. Like they were

[1:09:31] working at that tech for quite some

[1:09:32] time.

[1:09:33] >> Cory, didn't you get a DVD player like

[1:09:36] the first year they were?

[1:09:37] >> I got a DVD player in 1997.

[1:09:39] >> That's insane to me. That is so insane.

[1:09:42] >> Wow. Oh, it was like nothing at that.

[1:09:44] Like I didn't get it at that time, but I

[1:09:46] have friends that like were super into

[1:09:48] movie and video and like audio files and

[1:09:51] whatnot

[1:09:52] >> and like

[1:09:53] >> I just remember that and it wasn't until

[1:09:55] like PlayStation to

[1:09:58] >> that like it that market exploded, but

[1:10:00] like it did it was around. I remember

[1:10:03] that

[1:10:04] >> that all just came from working at

[1:10:05] Electronics Boutique and working with

[1:10:07] somebody who was way into this stuff,

[1:10:09] you know. He's also the person that

[1:10:10] talked me into getting a CD burner

[1:10:12] around that same time. And uh you know,

[1:10:15] he's like was all on the like the Voodoo

[1:10:17] like the dual uh

[1:10:19] >> SLIS and SLI. Yeah. He was just like all

[1:10:22] into that stuff.

[1:10:23] >> Four-way Sly Voodoo 5 9000.

[1:10:26] >> Exactly.

[1:10:27] >> It's just it's just funny because like I

[1:10:29] look at it now, it's like I mean he was

[1:10:31] he was a single guy lived alone. Like of

[1:10:33] course he's going to get in all this

[1:10:34] stuff, right? He had his his apartment.

[1:10:36] >> Pretty cool. It's pretty cool.

[1:10:37] >> Just doing it, you know? He was He was

[1:10:40] in his late 20s at the time. So,

[1:10:42] >> oh boy. For me, I my first DVD product

[1:10:45] was a DVD ROM drive for my computer in

[1:10:47] 99. And I got that along with the

[1:10:49] Eclipse 4.1 audio system,

[1:10:52] >> so I could like blast DVDs on my PC.

[1:10:56] >> And my next DVD player was the

[1:10:57] PlayStation 2.

[1:10:59] >> E397 also had Resident Evil 2. It had

[1:11:03] Blasto with Phil Hartman.

[1:11:05] >> It had parappa the rapper. Yeah, man.

[1:11:09] RIP. I love Steartman. He was he was the

[1:11:11] best.

[1:11:11] >> Amazing.

[1:11:13] >> I think Crash Bandicoot 2 was there. Um

[1:11:16] gosh, there was just kind of go on and

[1:11:19] on, but like needless to say, this was a

[1:11:21] big year. 3D Acceleration was taking

[1:11:22] off. Um it was just it was cool. it

[1:11:27] continued the trend and like all the

[1:11:28] stuff was really showing up in magazines

[1:11:30] and now it continued the next year where

[1:11:33] I think Symphony of the Night was also

[1:11:34] there but it wasn't necessarily

[1:11:36] considered a big deal at the time.

[1:11:38] >> It sure wasn't it wasn't

[1:11:39] >> it wasn't even a big deal after it came

[1:11:42] out either. Yeah, the one magazine

[1:11:44] notably said that it's it's not good

[1:11:46] because it's in 2D.

[1:11:47] >> Yep.

[1:11:48] >> You know, it's

[1:11:50] >> I played it quite early but I I loved it

[1:11:52] at the time but Yeah. Yeah. Same here.

[1:11:54] Um, so, oh man, I was looking at some

[1:11:58] footage. There's actually like a dude in

[1:11:59] a Rugrat suit walking around.

[1:12:01] >> Oh, no.

[1:12:02] >> Like in a diaper. I maybe he's not the

[1:12:05] Rugrats guy. Maybe he's just a attendee

[1:12:07] of E3.

[1:12:09] >> Could be. I guess the the the thing was

[1:12:12] there's tons of characters and just like

[1:12:14] like these like mascots walking around

[1:12:16] the show floor in all these shows, man.

[1:12:18] It's very funny. I mean, that's the I

[1:12:20] think that's the thing as we move into

[1:12:23] the 2000s now that we talking about what

[1:12:27] we've lost a little bit. The v variety

[1:12:30] of what was on these show floors was

[1:12:32] massively

[1:12:34] >> more diverse than anything you see today

[1:12:37] at like Summer GameFest and whatnot.

[1:12:39] >> And there's a lot to be said about that.

[1:12:43] >> And this is when they were like so many

[1:12:45] main franchises were being established.

[1:12:48] >> Yep. Like before we move there, let me

[1:12:50] like just let me just list some of the

[1:12:51] stuff that happened at E398, right? This

[1:12:53] is still Atlanta, last one in Atlanta.

[1:12:55] This is the year we got Zelda Ocarine of

[1:12:57] Time. Uh HalfLife near Final Demo shown,

[1:13:00] Metal Gear Solid, there Starcraft there,

[1:13:02] Gran Turismo, Spyro of the Dragon, Crash

[1:13:04] Bandicoot 3, Tekken, uh Duke Nukem

[1:13:08] Forever was announced and shown off. I

[1:13:11] mean, there was so much stuff happening

[1:13:12] that year. But then 1999 is the year

[1:13:15] when I actually remember starting to see

[1:13:18] more video. And this is when Dreamcast

[1:13:20] was already out in Japan and they they

[1:13:23] went big on showcasing it at E399. Uh I

[1:13:27] think Nintendo named that they had a

[1:13:28] successor known as Project Dolphin. Um

[1:13:33] the PlayStation 2 hype started at E399.

[1:13:37] They didn't have much to show, but it

[1:13:38] was like this was kind of like very

[1:13:41] early

[1:13:41] >> demo, right? I I don't think they

[1:13:44] actually showed any games yet because

[1:13:45] they had just announced they were doing

[1:13:47] it. There was a little bit of hype and

[1:13:48] then I think it wouldn't be until

[1:13:50] September at TGS where we'd actually

[1:13:52] start to really see games. But

[1:13:55] >> people were already talking about PS2.

[1:13:58] >> Seems to just recall that there was like

[1:13:59] a bullshot of Madden. That was like the

[1:14:02] first thing I ever saw on PS2.

[1:14:05] >> I actually remember this is an E3 memory

[1:14:07] uh the news broadcast when it was

[1:14:09] revealed when PlayStation 2 was

[1:14:11] revealed. I remember seeing the Gran

[1:14:12] Turismo 2000 footage running at 60 fps

[1:14:15] >> and with those reflections it like

[1:14:16] really caught my eye. I was like what

[1:14:18] the heck? This is insane.

[1:14:20] >> Uh so I was really really excited for

[1:14:22] that. In 1999

[1:14:24] >> that was I mean that I was all in on

[1:14:27] consoles again. I was super psyched for

[1:14:29] the Dreamcast paying attention to

[1:14:30] everything. Uh, Sega did go big at E3,

[1:14:34] but they also brought out like their

[1:14:35] like Sega Mobile Assault tour

[1:14:38] >> where they were like driving buses

[1:14:39] around the country showing off the

[1:14:40] Dreamcast, I think. Uh, I remember you

[1:14:43] could rent the Dreamcast at Hollywood

[1:14:45] Video, which I did.

[1:14:46] >> Uh, there was the they had a lot of

[1:14:49] kiosks at like Funco Lands and such

[1:14:51] where you could play games early. I

[1:14:53] mean, it was a it was a really big time

[1:14:55] and all of the stuff was kind of shown

[1:14:57] off at E3. Soulcalibur was there I guess

[1:15:01] as well that that would have been

[1:15:04] >> a big year like so this is like leading

[1:15:06] up to 2000 this aside from some clips

[1:15:09] here and there for me this was mostly

[1:15:11] like a magazine-based high school

[1:15:14] >> still was for me as well it was mostly

[1:15:16] magazines that I saw this stuff in. So a

[1:15:19] lot what I remember mostly from like the

[1:15:21] late 90s E3 like season was just a ton

[1:15:25] of bullshots. It was like so many games

[1:15:28] were doctorred up for the magazines and

[1:15:31] then you'd get the game later. It's like

[1:15:33] it doesn't look like that. At least Bubs

[1:15:36] like exactly like I remember it in the

[1:15:37] magazines.

[1:15:38] >> For me, this was definitely an era of

[1:15:42] reading online a lot. I mean, I had

[1:15:44] Nintendo Power was the only magazine I

[1:15:46] really had, but I would read about, you

[1:15:48] know, I I mostly went to IGN back in

[1:15:51] those days. Um, but I know that I was

[1:15:54] downloading lots of videos, looking at

[1:15:55] lots of articles and screenshots online

[1:15:57] during E3 because, um, I'm pretty sure

[1:16:00] it was the next year, uh, 2000. Um, or

[1:16:05] >> yes,

[1:16:05] >> well, was that when they showed the

[1:16:07] Gamecube like really unveiled it or?

[1:16:10] >> Uh, no. Um, that would have been

[1:16:13] actually

[1:16:15] I think at Shankai or Spacew World.

[1:16:18] >> Space World was the first time they

[1:16:19] showed that off. That was the first time

[1:16:20] they revealed it. So I don't think we

[1:16:22] would have seen it yet.

[1:16:24] >> Yeah. But I I know that in this era

[1:16:27] regardless I was very involved because I

[1:16:30] remember either 2000 or 2001 being

[1:16:34] extremely concerned about the fact that

[1:16:37] I was going to be at my grandma's house

[1:16:40] when a lot of this stuff was going to be

[1:16:42] shown off because my grandma never had a

[1:16:44] computer. Um, my dad had given me like a

[1:16:47] a a old laptop that his work wasn't

[1:16:50] using anymore. And I don't remember like

[1:16:52] the logistics of how I did this for the

[1:16:54] subscription, but like I like got

[1:16:57] internet through the laptop at my

[1:16:59] grandma's house somehow so I could like

[1:17:02] keep up with like all this like news

[1:17:05] that was happening around like early

[1:17:08] PS2, early GameCube reveals and stuff.

[1:17:11] Like this was all like 20201

[1:17:14] and I was like very engaged because I

[1:17:16] like could not imagine missing

[1:17:20] E3 like as these news drops were

[1:17:22] happening you know right around this you

[1:17:24] know turn of the century period like I

[1:17:27] was very engaged on the online aspect

[1:17:30] you know screenshot whether it was it

[1:17:32] wasn't just video I mean lots of

[1:17:34] screenshots and articles and stuff like

[1:17:36] I I was gobbling it all up. So, as we

[1:17:39] move into 2000, 2001, this is this is

[1:17:42] when I know for sure that I started to

[1:17:44] be able to watch video

[1:17:46] >> because I saw all the videos. Why

[1:17:49] >> is it because

[1:17:50] >> specifically? No, no, no, no, no. Uh,

[1:17:52] specifically, you know, you're thinking

[1:17:54] 2000 because I guarantee you you were

[1:17:56] downloading that Metal Gear Solid 2

[1:17:58] reveal,

[1:17:59] >> dude. That I I So, I very specific I was

[1:18:03] at my

[1:18:03] >> I was visiting my friend Eric's mom's

[1:18:07] apartment. We were sitting at her

[1:18:08] computer because she had better internet

[1:18:10] than us. And I specifically downloaded

[1:18:14] >> uh like anov like a small like quicktime

[1:18:16] movie of that trailer and we watched

[1:18:19] that Metal Gear Solid 2 trailer

[1:18:22] >> and just like

[1:18:23] >> like a hundred times probably

[1:18:24] >> could not believe what what was being

[1:18:26] shown. And that video was not showing it

[1:18:28] at 60 frames per second by the way. Uh,

[1:18:32] so like we were only getting like a

[1:18:34] small taste of it, but you could still

[1:18:36] see like the things that were going on

[1:18:38] in that were like unlike anything I'd

[1:18:40] ever seen. And I was like super in on

[1:18:42] Dreamcast but

[1:18:44] >> I was also like so bowled over by that

[1:18:46] that all the other

[1:18:49] >> uh less great showing of of PS2 games

[1:18:52] during that show kind of got brushed

[1:18:55] aside because you just see this and it's

[1:18:57] like, well, okay, this is like next

[1:18:59] generation here, right?

[1:19:02] And that was like I so distinctly

[1:19:04] remember the video clips from that era.

[1:19:08] And this is when I think also IGN a lot

[1:19:10] would upload tons of videos for things.

[1:19:13] >> Oh yeah.

[1:19:13] >> So I remember downloading so many videos

[1:19:15] from them.

[1:19:16] >> No streaming. No streaming. This is

[1:19:18] download baby.

[1:19:19] >> You download you.

[1:19:21] >> You downloaded those videos very

[1:19:24] >> and these videos were 320 by 240 if even

[1:19:27] the biggest.

[1:19:28] >> Yeah. that man that's

[1:19:29] >> 160 by 120.

[1:19:31] >> I just remember you could not

[1:19:32] necessarily stream but you could do like

[1:19:34] real player and put the address in so

[1:19:37] that like

[1:19:38] >> it could buffer. Um, yeah.

[1:19:40] >> And I just remember doing that and just

[1:19:43] like so I do remember that this is kind

[1:19:45] of the time too where I was absolutely

[1:19:48] hooked in in the middle of the night for

[1:19:50] me as things were happening at E3

[1:19:54] because they were able to kind of

[1:19:55] broadcast that news out more real time

[1:19:58] on real player.

[1:20:00] >> I don't know if that's the tagline but

[1:20:02] it should be.

[1:20:04] So

[1:20:05] >> yeah,

[1:20:06] >> that that was really really exciting

[1:20:08] times. And

[1:20:09] >> E3 2000 was also that was when Dreamcast

[1:20:13] was like, you know, already established

[1:20:15] and we saw like basically the next

[1:20:17] generation of games somewhere out in

[1:20:18] Japan, but like this is where stuff like

[1:20:21] Jet Grind Radio were shown. You know, I

[1:20:24] remember Skies of Arcadia, Grandia 2

[1:20:26] hype, just tons of other games just show

[1:20:29] showcasing. I think they were big on the

[1:20:32] online place stuff maybe and they were

[1:20:34] showing off. Uh I I can't I can't

[1:20:38] actually remember. I I just know that

[1:20:40] there was a lot of hype around that.

[1:20:42] This was also the year when we got

[1:20:45] another really nice demo of Halo, which

[1:20:48] I was very hyped for because this was

[1:20:50] actually pre Xbox. This was still when

[1:20:53] Halo was being developed for the PC. Um

[1:20:55] and

[1:20:56] >> Oh, no. For Mac, right?

[1:20:57] >> Well, no, it was Mac and PC, right?

[1:20:59] Okay.

[1:21:00] >> Not just Mac. It was It was obviously

[1:21:02] associated with Mac, but Bungie had

[1:21:03] already been making games for PC as

[1:21:05] well.

[1:21:06] >> And they were coming off of Myth, right?

[1:21:07] Was it Myth? Yeah,

[1:21:08] >> they did Myth 2, Soul Blighter, and then

[1:21:11] Halo was their next big project. And it

[1:21:14] had been shown a bit, and it was looking

[1:21:16] insane at the time, like all the physics

[1:21:18] stuff, the size of the world, like the

[1:21:20] bump mapping, the water effects,

[1:21:22] >> really, really impressive. But I it's

[1:21:25] interesting because this was also the E3

[1:21:27] where we started to hear rumblings about

[1:21:29] Xbox because Microsoft was at E3. They

[1:21:32] were at these E3 shows, but they were

[1:21:34] mostly just showing their PC software

[1:21:36] lineup, right? PC games. But Xbox was

[1:21:39] like starting to become a thing at this

[1:21:42] point. And there was rumors, there was

[1:21:43] also rumors about Game Boy Advance

[1:21:46] happening around this time, but nothing

[1:21:48] was actually shown. So it's like on the

[1:21:51] Nintendo side, try do you remember like

[1:21:54] at 2000 like there wasn't really

[1:21:56] anything concrete, but there was all

[1:21:58] this talk about like Nintendo's next

[1:22:00] wave of stuff is coming. Right.

[1:22:02] >> Right. Right. Right. I mean this was uh

[1:22:04] for N64. This was a super dead time. Uh

[1:22:07] and you know there there wasn't a lot of

[1:22:09] excitement around gameplay.

[1:22:11] >> Tony Hawk I think was shown off for N64

[1:22:15] >> maybe. But, you know, I mean, it wasn't

[1:22:18] >> it was something you could play on other

[1:22:19] systems. So, yeah, this was I mean, 2000

[1:22:22] just in terms of of releases, 2000

[1:22:25] >> uh 2001

[1:22:28] not the best years of the N64 for sure.

[1:22:31] Uh 2000 definitely better than 2001. I

[1:22:34] mean, 2001 was was a dire year waiting

[1:22:37] for the Gamecube, but yeah, you know,

[1:22:39] this was a period of where it's like,

[1:22:41] okay, we're very much looking forward to

[1:22:43] what is next from Nintendo.

[1:22:45] >> Dinosaur Planet at this one.

[1:22:47] >> No, not not yet. That would

[1:22:49] >> Okay.

[1:22:50] >> Oh, on N64. Actually,

[1:22:52] >> probably.

[1:22:55] Probably.

[1:22:55] >> I mean, yeah, that was

[1:22:56] >> I remember kind of looking at that and

[1:22:58] being like, I'm I'm excited for this.

[1:23:00] >> Yeah. I mean Yeah. I mean, there was I I

[1:23:04] don't remember specifically what would

[1:23:05] have been at E3 uh for N64 and this

[1:23:08] year. And I don't remember again

[1:23:10] specifically when we started more

[1:23:13] concretely seeing GameCube stuff like

[1:23:15] that uh you know that famous uh uh

[1:23:18] Ocarina of Time styled GameCube demo of

[1:23:23] Zelda. Uh right. I don't remember if

[1:23:26] that was that was probably Space World,

[1:23:28] I'm thinking.

[1:23:29] >> Um Right, right, right. But yeah. Yeah,

[1:23:32] this was for for Nintendo, but this was

[1:23:36] also when I was um finally like fully

[1:23:39] engaged with PlayStation. Uh you know, I

[1:23:42] was I was looking forward to, you know,

[1:23:45] the RPGs and stuff and like super

[1:23:47] excited about,

[1:23:49] >> you know, uh that kind of stuff as well.

[1:23:51] So I I was not just Nintendo by this

[1:23:55] point. So yeah,

[1:23:58] what's uh interesting though is um this

[1:24:02] would have also been so looking at some

[1:24:04] of the footage like I saw them showing

[1:24:07] off Dragon's Layer 3D as early as 2000

[1:24:10] like on a computer

[1:24:12] >> and that would

[1:24:14] shaded one, right?

[1:24:15] >> The the cell shaded one. Yeah.

[1:24:17] >> But what I I've never been able to

[1:24:19] figure this out and maybe somebody can I

[1:24:21] I don't even know if I can describe it

[1:24:22] well enough. So, I also remember

[1:24:24] watching these videos with a friend of

[1:24:25] mine, Nathan. We downloaded tons of

[1:24:28] videos and we would like put them on CDs

[1:24:29] and like watch them all, which was a bit

[1:24:32] crazy, but there was this trailer for a

[1:24:34] PC game shown at this show. And it was

[1:24:38] so laughably bad. Like, we could not

[1:24:41] stop laughing about it. It was just like

[1:24:43] it was so choppy. The camera angles were

[1:24:45] so bad. Like, the animation was so bad.

[1:24:48] And I just remember thinking it was the

[1:24:50] funniest thing at the time because they

[1:24:51] wanted it to be epic, but it looked like

[1:24:53] it was one of the worst looking things

[1:24:54] I'd ever seen. And I but I've never been

[1:24:56] able to figure out what that was.

[1:24:58] >> Oh man, I'm I'm dying to see

[1:25:00] >> person here.

[1:25:02] >> You're sure this was 2000?

[1:25:05] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was

[1:25:06] definitely It It was 2000 because that's

[1:25:09] when I we would have been watching these

[1:25:11] videos. It was the summer where we

[1:25:13] played a lot of Dreamcast.

[1:25:17] So that was a that was a weird time for

[1:25:19] that.

[1:25:20] >> Um, and yeah, PS2 was was kind of the

[1:25:24] main focus of the show beyond that.

[1:25:26] Although they did have a Simpsons

[1:25:28] wrestling like ring setup with like

[1:25:31] characters dressed as Marge and and

[1:25:33] Homer like in the ring.

[1:25:35] >> That game is insanely bad. Yeah,

[1:25:39] >> it is so bad. I mean, you are the

[1:25:41] wrestling game expert, Audi, and I think

[1:25:43] you can agree. Yeah, for that one it

[1:25:45] like the only story I have because the

[1:25:48] game is just terrible. It's one of the

[1:25:49] worst games ever made. Uh when I was

[1:25:51] writing my book and trying to contact

[1:25:56] someone that worked on it, I did get in

[1:25:58] touch with one of them and

[1:26:01] I just got like a reply back saying, "I

[1:26:04] have no interest in revisiting this time

[1:26:06] in my life or this game. Like I do not

[1:26:08] want to talk about it." I was like,

[1:26:10] "Okay." you know, it was the only that

[1:26:12] was the only insight I got into

[1:26:14] development on it. Uh, basically was

[1:26:17] just people didn't it was just paid very

[1:26:20] quickly and no one wanted to talk about

[1:26:21] it.

[1:26:22] >> So yeah, E3 2000 very special time. But

[1:26:26] 2001, now this is really interesting

[1:26:28] because this is the first year where

[1:26:31] there was a company called NextGen

[1:26:33] Videos, I believe, and they put out a

[1:26:37] collection, a DVD called Future of Video

[1:26:39] Games Volume One. And I would buy each

[1:26:42] of these, and I think I still have them

[1:26:43] all. I also got the GameSpot selection

[1:26:45] of DVDs from this era, uh, but I think

[1:26:48] they were 2002 or 2003. I I forget when

[1:26:51] they started, but basically this was

[1:26:53] finally a moment in time where companies

[1:26:55] decided, hey, we're going to sell you

[1:26:57] DVD quality video from these trade

[1:26:59] shows,

[1:27:00] >> from the shows.

[1:27:00] >> And yeah,

[1:27:01] >> I would buy these and like my sister and

[1:27:04] I would just like literally watch the

[1:27:07] entire discs, just go down, watch every

[1:27:09] single video. It would be like a four or

[1:27:12] five disc set. But what was great about

[1:27:14] it is it was the first time that you

[1:27:16] could actually see the true frame rate

[1:27:18] of content

[1:27:19] >> because everything was shown at actual

[1:27:21] 60 frames per second.

[1:27:22] >> Yeah.

[1:27:23] >> So like it it felt like you were closer

[1:27:26] than ever to uh seeing these games in

[1:27:29] action.

[1:27:30] >> And 2001 is when we saw a lot of big

[1:27:32] stuff. So like the one I really remember

[1:27:35] specifically the most and I saw this

[1:27:37] before the DVD as well was Jack and

[1:27:39] Daxter.

[1:27:41] that first trailer was revealed with

[1:27:43] that really it was a song used from

[1:27:47] >> another source.

[1:27:49] >> Everybody thought it was Enya at the

[1:27:51] time. It's not Enya, but uh

[1:27:54] >> I remember

[1:27:55] >> the music was really good and the game

[1:27:57] looked amazing and I'd never seen a

[1:27:59] world that detailed and large before and

[1:28:02] then to find out it was all 60 fps it

[1:28:04] was like wow. But the disappointment

[1:28:06] from E3 stems from I really like the

[1:28:08] music in that trailer and then the game

[1:28:09] comes out and I hate the soundtrack.

[1:28:12] >> We'll get back we'll get back into that

[1:28:13] later. By the way, this happens again at

[1:28:15] a much greater scale.

[1:28:17] >> Oh boy. So that that kind of stuff

[1:28:19] sucks. But 2001 though, man, this is

[1:28:22] when So PS2 is going into like arguably

[1:28:26] its best year ever. Like just so much

[1:28:28] stuff comes out this year. Uh Gamecube

[1:28:30] and Xbox are both already known

[1:28:33] quantities. They are revealed. They go

[1:28:35] big at this show. Microsoft had Bungie,

[1:28:38] weirdly enough, and Halo was shown here,

[1:28:41] but it was not shown well. The E3 demo

[1:28:43] famously was really [ __ ] and ran very

[1:28:45] poorly. And everybody was hyped for Dead

[1:28:48] or Alive 3, which was like the big title

[1:28:50] for Xbox, right? So, but and I remember

[1:28:54] watching the Halo demo uh from E3 and

[1:28:57] thinking, man, this is like 15 fps. It

[1:29:00] was really bad. And I thought it looked

[1:29:02] so much worse than that older PC footage

[1:29:04] we saw. Little did I know it would

[1:29:07] consume me over the next few years. But

[1:29:09] >> yeah,

[1:29:10] >> as they pull it together like really

[1:29:12] like towards the end, I think of

[1:29:14] development.

[1:29:14] >> Yes, they did.

[1:29:16] >> That's kind of the whole thing, right?

[1:29:17] >> We also Yeah, go ahead.

[1:29:19] >> I do want to mention that I I was I was

[1:29:21] at this E3.

[1:29:22] >> Oh, right. This is the one.

[1:29:24] >> Yeah, this is the one. Uh at the time I

[1:29:27] was doing video for a website called the

[1:29:29] nextlevel.com

[1:29:31] and uh I was able to go as part of that

[1:29:34] group and you know that that forum was

[1:29:37] like a big part of my life and you know

[1:29:39] it's kind of funny because people that I

[1:29:40] met on that forum from like 99 through

[1:29:44] like even till today like kind of weave

[1:29:47] in and out in my life. It's it's it's

[1:29:50] kind of amazing just how influential

[1:29:51] it's been on my life and like where I

[1:29:53] am. Uh yeah, I I was there wandering the

[1:29:57] floor and uh taking a bunch of photos.

[1:29:59] I'll see if I can scan some photos and

[1:30:00] put them in.

[1:30:02] >> Don't you have footage as well

[1:30:04] >> or is that from

[1:30:05] >> the footage that the footage is from

[1:30:07] 2002 that I did not go to, but I had a I

[1:30:10] had a friend who was able to go uh he

[1:30:13] was a manager at Electronics Boutique

[1:30:15] and I think that that would allow them

[1:30:16] to also get in

[1:30:18] >> for free like during that time.

[1:30:20] See for me like 01 and 02 but 01

[1:30:24] especially because 01 I was an intern at

[1:30:27] Funkcom was the first time I kind of got

[1:30:29] a step into the industry. I didn't go to

[1:30:32] this or anything but uh that was when I

[1:30:35] started kind of realizing that maybe

[1:30:38] potentially one day I can get lucky

[1:30:40] enough and go to one of these. Uh little

[1:30:43] did I know I go through several but like

[1:30:46] uh at the time because you're mentioning

[1:30:48] like the magazines in the US but there

[1:30:51] was a Swedish magazine maybe it was

[1:30:53] called Play or maybe that's later but

[1:30:56] for us here in Scandinavia and Europe uh

[1:30:59] the like some came with VHS cassettes

[1:31:01] but some came with actually DVDs uh

[1:31:04] supplied and it has a lot of I still

[1:31:06] have some of them so I'll try to dig it

[1:31:08] up for this episode. Uh, but those are

[1:31:10] like super early

[1:31:12] uh coverage of E3 at the show by these

[1:31:16] kind of wideeyed Scandinavians just kind

[1:31:19] of like, "Oh my god, look at this." Uh,

[1:31:22] and it's just interesting to see because

[1:31:24] like that was how I imagined it too. And

[1:31:26] then the footage you showed me, Corey,

[1:31:28] from the ones you went to is just kind

[1:31:30] of like reminiscent of that era. But

[1:31:31] this was when I started,

[1:31:34] >> you know, I was sitting on the

[1:31:35] magicbox.net net and refreshing all the

[1:31:38] time.

[1:31:38] >> Oh, the magic box. Remember? Yeah, I was

[1:31:41] refreshing that site all the time to see

[1:31:43] whatever the latest announcements were.

[1:31:45] Again, kind of like in the middle of the

[1:31:46] night because it's nine hour difference

[1:31:48] >> and u

[1:31:49] >> or the GIA maybe sometimes too.

[1:31:51] >> Yeah. And um just never more.

[1:31:57] >> Yeah, it was it was really good for

[1:31:58] Japanese games that site.

[1:32:00] >> Yes.

[1:32:00] >> Um

[1:32:01] >> Magic Black. Yes.

[1:32:02] >> Really good site. But this is when we

[1:32:04] started getting more video coverage just

[1:32:06] being able to download it, but also

[1:32:08] packed in. Uh Nintendo also for the N64

[1:32:12] magazine put I think most of their E3

[1:32:15] lineup on a VHS cassette that I still

[1:32:18] have that is per colored or yellow

[1:32:22] orange colored u actually. Um but you

[1:32:25] have like Luigi's Mansion, the Smash

[1:32:28] Brothers uh opening demo and things like

[1:32:31] this. So, like I was just, you know,

[1:32:33] fully invested in E3 because like we

[1:32:36] were starting to get so much coverage

[1:32:38] from it u both real time and then

[1:32:41] afterwards Sunday magazines.

[1:32:43] >> That's actually a good point that uh

[1:32:44] there would have been like tape of

[1:32:47] earlier E3s of good quality, but it's

[1:32:50] something that we we as consumers

[1:32:52] wouldn't have really had good access to,

[1:32:54] right?

[1:32:54] >> Yeah.

[1:32:55] >> At the time.

[1:32:55] >> I feel like No Clip was uploading a lot

[1:32:58] of these old uh

[1:32:59] >> he got like

[1:33:00] >> videapes. Yeah. It got like,

[1:33:01] >> but it might be after this period, I

[1:33:03] think. But I don't know. I'd have to

[1:33:05] kind of look back through because it was

[1:33:06] all from

[1:33:08] >> like Game Informers archives or

[1:33:10] somebody's archives,

[1:33:11] >> something like this. Yeah.

[1:33:12] >> Yeah.

[1:33:14] >> Yeah. Uh, right.

[1:33:16] >> So, for me, the big one that I remember,

[1:33:18] you were going to mention like reveals

[1:33:19] from this year. Uh, for me, like I

[1:33:22] remember Silent Hill 2 being a big deal.

[1:33:24] >> Oh, that's right.

[1:33:25] >> I don't know if it was announced at that

[1:33:27] point, but that was that was the first

[1:33:28] time that I'd seen it. And the uh you

[1:33:31] know like the real- time cutcenes in

[1:33:33] that game are incredible. Like the

[1:33:35] character models are just

[1:33:37] >> staggeringly beautiful.

[1:33:39] >> So for me one of the kind of reveals has

[1:33:41] nothing to do with video games but at

[1:33:43] this time there was a Japanese

[1:33:45] >> wrestling company called FMW that had

[1:33:49] some placement at E3 and they brought

[1:33:51] over one of my all-time like idols,

[1:33:54] Hayabusa. And I just remember seeing

[1:33:57] footage of like him in the US and like

[1:34:00] dealing with these trade shows and stuff

[1:34:01] and being so jealous. Uh he has past I

[1:34:04] never got to meet him. Uh but like you

[1:34:06] know when I was in doing this stuff

[1:34:09] myself that was like the guy I emulated.

[1:34:12] U so I just remember that like I was so

[1:34:15] jealous of the fact that like these

[1:34:17] Swedes with like wide eyes got to be in

[1:34:20] the presence of a living legend like

[1:34:22] that. And uh because because I think

[1:34:25] Tokyo Pop had some sort of booth there

[1:34:27] and they brought them over uh because

[1:34:29] they were doing DVDs and whatnot of that

[1:34:31] company.

[1:34:32] >> Tony Hawk Pro Skater had always already

[1:34:34] been like a big hit, but this was I feel

[1:34:36] like 2001 was when they really expanded

[1:34:38] the whole Activision O2 line and then

[1:34:40] they had like Dave Mera

[1:34:42] >> uh BMX and um

[1:34:45] >> like Pro Surfer and stuff like that

[1:34:47] because I remember

[1:34:48] >> there was Tony Pro Skater 3 coming later

[1:34:50] that year as well,

[1:34:51] >> right? Huge,

[1:34:52] >> right? Yeah. So, because they had a big

[1:34:54] show like that, they had the the like

[1:34:56] the halfpipe there and there was, you

[1:34:58] know, skaters in there and uh I think a

[1:35:01] friend of mine got their photo taken

[1:35:03] with uh with Bucky Lassic, I think.

[1:35:05] >> Wow. Another

[1:35:09] >> See, that's that's that's the kind of

[1:35:11] thing looking at footage that and this

[1:35:13] wouldn't have really usually been on the

[1:35:14] DVDs, unfortunately, but like footage of

[1:35:17] the stuff happening on the floor. And I

[1:35:19] have seen some other footage of that

[1:35:21] where you've got like

[1:35:22] >> half pipes and like all the stage shows

[1:35:24] and there's dancing and it's just crazy

[1:35:27] business happening. Not to mention the

[1:35:29] parties.

[1:35:30] >> No, the part Yeah. I mean, this is still

[1:35:32] active by the time I started going. So,

[1:35:34] uh we'll have some firsthand reports on

[1:35:37] that.

[1:35:38] >> And Cory, you uh you you met you

[1:35:40] interviewed Victor Island or met him or

[1:35:42] something. Well, we because I was part

[1:35:44] of that website, we got to have I got to

[1:35:46] go to a couple of the the meetings and

[1:35:48] that was the first time I met Victor

[1:35:49] Ireland and that was

[1:35:51] >> Oh, nice.

[1:35:51] >> Uh, Lunar 2 was uh complete edition was

[1:35:55] about or Lunar 2 uh Eternal Blue

[1:35:58] Complete was about to come out. So,

[1:35:59] that's when uh I got to meet him and it

[1:36:02] was it was cool. I got a got a free copy

[1:36:04] of Sulfie the Lost Planet during that.

[1:36:06] Oh,

[1:36:07] >> said that they were thinking about

[1:36:08] developing or porting games or uh

[1:36:11] translating games for the the Gamecube,

[1:36:14] >> which obviously never ended up

[1:36:15] happening.

[1:36:15] >> That definitely did not. But yeah, man.

[1:36:18] E3

[1:36:20] uh

[1:36:22] 2001 was a was such a huge year, I

[1:36:25] think, and it was I think I mean, just

[1:36:27] as a year in general, that was one of

[1:36:29] the best that I can ever remember.

[1:36:31] >> And it to set the stage for for that

[1:36:33] entire next generation in a big way. was

[1:36:36] also the final E3 for the Dreamcast.

[1:36:39] They'd already announced that they were

[1:36:40] discontinuing it, but there was still

[1:36:42] some E3 presence with Sega and Dreamcast

[1:36:44] at the show.

[1:36:46] >> Yeah.

[1:36:46] >> Um, but really this was about

[1:36:48] PlayStation 2, Xbox, and Gamecube in a

[1:36:50] big way. And of course, the PC

[1:36:52] >> was the And I've mentioned it before,

[1:36:54] but I think that one of the the funniest

[1:36:57] things to talk about, or at the time, we

[1:36:58] didn't think it was a big deal, but

[1:37:00] there was people saying like, "Oh my

[1:37:01] god, I I played Grand Theft Auto 3." It

[1:37:03] was just kind of like in this side booth

[1:37:05] like out of like out of the uh like the

[1:37:08] main area.

[1:37:10] >> Yeah.

[1:37:11] >> Everyone was like it was is it's

[1:37:12] incredible. I can't believe what they

[1:37:14] were doing with it. And uh at that time,

[1:37:16] you know, nobody knew what was what was

[1:37:19] in store for them, how that would change

[1:37:21] the entire landscape of video games.

[1:37:24] So the big question I have kind of going

[1:37:27] forward is

[1:37:29] >> I don't remember what year but right

[1:37:31] around this time is when we actually

[1:37:34] started to get to see press conferences

[1:37:37] live on

[1:37:38] >> 2004 was when you

[1:37:40] >> 200

[1:37:41] I think 2003 had it as well. That's when

[1:37:44] you had it. But like 2004 was when they

[1:37:47] started putting that stuff like

[1:37:51] scheduled in and people were locked in.

[1:37:54] Like

[1:37:54] >> it was bar I think GameSpot had a couple

[1:37:57] of them.

[1:37:58] >> Gamespot. GameSpot was the most reliable

[1:38:01] one that I as I

[1:38:02] >> recall had the best bit rate of of time.

[1:38:05] Yes.

[1:38:06] >> Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I I I

[1:38:09] think the closest analogy I can make

[1:38:11] today is, you know, the frustration that

[1:38:13] people have trying to pre-order new

[1:38:15] consoles and new anything that needs a

[1:38:18] pre-order today and the websites break

[1:38:21] and you can't get in and you don't get

[1:38:23] in and you're frustrated and angry and

[1:38:25] mad. That's what just watching a live

[1:38:28] video game presentation was back in

[1:38:30] these days. like it was you you had to

[1:38:34] wait so long for the page to even load.

[1:38:37] Like you didn't know if you were

[1:38:38] actually going to get into the page and

[1:38:42] you know people were you know having all

[1:38:43] these theories like oh if you do this if

[1:38:45] you do that or open that in a different

[1:38:46] browser whatever. It was like really

[1:38:49] nerve-wracking whether you were going to

[1:38:50] get to see this event live. But it it it

[1:38:53] was uh it that was that was when E3 I

[1:38:56] think started to get really cool for me

[1:38:58] was seeing the press conferences live.

[1:39:00] >> So I think that would have been 2003.

[1:39:02] 2002

[1:39:04] I don't think they were showing things

[1:39:06] live yet or if they were I I wasn't able

[1:39:08] to catch it.

[1:39:10] >> I would that was still that was still a

[1:39:12] big year, right? This is when um we saw

[1:39:14] Wind Waker at E3. There was Super Mario

[1:39:17] Sunshine there. Resident Evil Zero, Star

[1:39:19] Fox Adventures,

[1:39:20] >> you know, I guess Metroid Prime probably

[1:39:22] would have been there.

[1:39:23] >> Uh, Splinter Cell was shown off

[1:39:25] >> and like Dragon Or

[1:39:28] >> Xbox Live was unveiled, I believe.

[1:39:31] >> Oh, yeah.

[1:39:31] >> Um, and it was just, you know, it was it

[1:39:33] was another big year, I would say, for a

[1:39:36] lot of games. But

[1:39:37] >> the image and the image in my head for

[1:39:40] this year is Miiamoto coming in from the

[1:39:44] back of the theater playing Super Mario

[1:39:47] Sunshine

[1:39:49] all the way from the back with a waveird

[1:39:52] and he's like slowly walking up to E3.

[1:39:57] >> I think it was E3. I'm pretty sure it

[1:39:59] was E3. Okay,