Finance Experts Rate 19 Controversial Money Topics with @GrahamStephan

[00:02] >> That was good. That was a one take. >> All right. Today I am here with Graham Stephan, the one and only, and we're going to be playing overrated underrated with different types of financial topics. We both have these ping pong

[00:14] talking about four different categories. The first is ways to grow your net worth. Second will be financial social norms. Number three, investing beliefs, and number four, spending and lifestyle choices. Graham, are you ready?

[00:26] right? >> You get to keep these. These are my gift to you. I know you are a frugal king and uh this is what you get for filming with of these. >> I will sign one of these just for

[00:40] Graham. All right. Category number one on ways to grow your net worth. Living with your parents longer than the average person to invest aggressively. average person to invest aggressively. Overrated or underrated?

[00:53] save the money. >> I also agree. Underrated. staying with their parents as long as possible, but I also think there's a their parents who's going to be completely complacent. And they're

[01:07] them back because they don't have that like fire underneath them of like, "Oh man, I got to get my act together. I can't just like live on the couch >> all day and have my mom make me making me the meatloaf."

[01:20] >> Yeah. >> And so you you want to stay at home to take advantage of it, right? Like so much so that it's egregious. >> I think as long as you could be saving the money and you're not like living

[01:34] save an extra two grand a month, but then you spend it at the bar, then it kind of defeats the purpose. [laughter] If you have it If you have a purpose and a goal in mind and that that's helping you get to the goal, then I'm all for

[01:47] the age of 30 and I remember I would have extra money monthly and I'd be here and there and I can Yeah, can go to Nobu, but uh that only happened once." money, but I was like, oh I live at home I don't pay rent. So, I would

[02:02] So, as long as you're doing it responsibly and you're investing >> I agree. >> All right, category number one, question you're going to like this, Graham. Just cutting out coffee or small expenses.

[02:20] >> I think it is overrated. >> Cuz you probably think, oh it's only a few bucks. It's not like you know, the bigger expenses like your car, your going to make a much bigger difference. I see your point of view.

[02:34] But the little tiny ones add up. It's like it's like asking a bodybuilder, can you eat a donut? Sure, you can eat the donut, but the type of person that eats the donut is probably not also going to be the bodybuilder who's going to get in

[02:47] >> You know, I I would say it's under overrated, excuse me. I would say it's overrated just because I think if you can be responsible with your choices, which I personally think I am, so I'm speaking from my experience. Like I

[03:00] can buy a $5 latte once a week and just call it there. But I do understand that in all parts of your life, like it can get it can get can get a kind of away from you, right? All right, number three, extreme frugality, overrated

[03:14] three, extreme frugality, overrated underrated? underrated so far. Everything we could keep doing to an extreme. I remember I loved the show Extreme Cheapskates where you would see people just go to like

[03:27] just out of this world just things to save they're like not using toilet paper and they're using like this cloth and then just like wiping and washing it over and over again. And I'm thinking, okay,

[03:40] you're saving some money, but I don't know. I I just think what whatever it takes for as long as it takes, you just 100k and they you know, they've been

[03:52] >> they could get toilet paper. >> [laughter] >> They don't have to live on >> balance in your in your opinion. It's grow that net worth. >> I tend to think so. I think until you

[04:06] hit a number where that that compound growth kind of overcomes what you're able to save with extreme frugality, then I think the frugality really makes a big difference. Like I remember for myself until the age of maybe 28

[04:20] I never bought condiments. And I'm talking like ketchup, soy [laughter] sauce, mustard, mayonnaise. >> and grab them and run home? >> Yes, because every single time you'd ever do take out, they throw like five

[04:32] I never threw those out. And so I remember I had a barbecue for 4th of July and we were some some friends brought like hot dogs and burgers. And for me and the condiments, I had the condiment drawer with like hundreds of

[04:47] and I You people with ketchup in your butt wasteful. And then at the same time that was the same point where I never bought was the same point where I never bought trash bags. I'd reuse the grocery bags.

[05:00] four. Moving to a low-cost area on ways to grow your net worth. Do you think that's overrated or underrated? I'm going to go underrated. something that's overrated. >> we'll get there.

[05:13] >> I mean, look at what look at what we did. We're in Las Vegas. Our cost of living is significantly cheaper than living in Los Angeles. Like where we're at now to get this in Los Angeles in like

[05:25] >> Yes. Oh my gosh, easy. Yeah, first of all, this wouldn't exist because local zoning wouldn't allow this structure to exist in a residential houses. You would have no idea this is here. LA this would be a zoning no-no.

[05:40] a Let's say they move to a low-cost area >> You got to balance it out. I mean, you really got to look at "Hey, what are the save?" And there's there's there's an equation to everything. Or you could

[05:52] look at like, "Okay, I could move to this rural part of the middle of nowhere where my rent is $800, but my salary's going to be capped at 2,500 a month." Like, that's a bad deal. But, if you could move to Austin, where all of a

[06:06] sudden you could make 120 grand a year working at this new tech startup where >> Yeah. >> then that might be pretty >> Or if you have a remote job and you have like a tech salary and you're living in

[06:19] right? >> Yeah, but it seems like more and more often like your opportunities these days are really chalked up to relationships of these people. It's harder to do online.

[06:31] >> The next one is actually, networking is more important than skills for that is I think that's underrated, yeah. >> Yeah, I think it's incredibly true. You got to be a people person and you got to

[06:43] to kind of like know, the friendlier you are the more of a people like the more you see someone uh even if it's just like at the water

[06:55] cooler. It's like, "Yo, what's up, John? How's it going? How's it going today? Like, stuff like that actually does make a difference. It does because it because it's like, "Who who comes to mind?" Especially if

[07:08] people. Someone's like, "Hey, my work load is getting kind of crazy." And you more than what what you're paid. People start to >> Yeah, I would say most people would probably choose someone that's seven out

[07:23] of 10 in skills over with a 10 to 10 pleasantness score over what they do, but they're just awful to work with, right? I'd rather just choose a lot of time with them. >> I'm also a firm believer that skills, a

[07:38] lot of them can be trained. Like, there are people who are naturally gifted at something, but to get you could get like 90% of the way there someone with just a >> Yeah. Okay, I agree with you Graham. All right, this next one starting a YouTube

[07:52] channel {slash} becoming an influencer. Overrated or underrated? >> I'm going to finally going to say it. I show my red here. I think it's >> under rated actually. As long as you're good. As long as you're good with the

[08:05] >> said than done. I don't know. For for a long time I said it was underrated. A long time. Uh I saw it all of a sudden after 2021 everyone started making YouTube videos.

[08:18] Everybody. But I remember like 2017, 18, and 19 I kept saying I made these passive income videos and I'm like if you want to make money, make YouTube videos. Right now is a great time. And some people I'm sure

[08:33] listened to it, but now it's I I just think the amount of work you have to put in to make any amount of money at all you're way better off just getting a part-time job. Doing anything. Doing anything else will make you more

[08:46] money. To do YouTube and actually do well at it to to overcome what you would have just made doing anything else, you have to be so that I say for YouTube or social media do it only because you love doing it and

[08:59] >> I would say I agree with that. There's a into YouTube to even get to the point where you're making a decent income from it. I was running the math with someone this morning. We were having coffee. I

[09:12] think you need about 500k views a month to maybe make 5k a month is is my guess. views long form a month and that's hard to do especially as a new creator. The one reason I said it was underrated is that it's still

[09:27] work, right? You make the video once. It could either be viewed one time or it great if it's viewed a a times cuz you're making you're making so much more for the amount of work that you put in. And I think it's like one way to to

[09:41] basically divide up your time and what you earn. And I still think that that is true, but you have to be good. And if you're not good and you've given it like and you're not getting anywhere, maybe it's time to go get a part-time job.

[09:55] >> I just see the amount of work that that like we're all putting in on YouTube. And that's within established audience. For me to recreate what I've already uh I don't know if I would have been able to have done it today given how

[10:10] much great content is is out there. Like people I watch videos and I'm like, "Holy crap." Like I feel like I'm a failure when I see "How on earth do they have the time to do this?"

[10:23] >> Okay. >> Financial social norms. You're going to First one, money can buy happiness. And I think if you if I think if you say underrated, you believe that it can buy happiness.

[10:38] buy happiness. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yes, you think money can buy happiness. then I then I should be saying underrated. I don't think you're going

[10:53] with more money. >> I don't think so. I I guess it depends on what you value. I value convenience a lot. as I've made more money, I've realized, "Oh, I can spend money to get rid of

[11:08] something I don't really enjoy spending my time on." For example, >> Well, for example, for a while I didn't have a washer dryer in unit. And I just went downstairs to the dry cleaner and they did wash and fold for me for 25

[11:20] bucks a week. And I was like, "This is great. I'm spending 25 bucks a week. I doing my laundry every week. This is awesome." So that inherently gave me And I was like, "Oh, well, if I didn't have this extra 25 bucks a

[11:35] bit stressed about having to go to the laundromat and like putting the quarters in and then spending, you know, 3 hours there and and and figuring that out. So, to me, I was like, if there are things that can

[11:48] going to make me pretty happy. Obviously, it's not going to solve the fulfillment issues or how great you feel with your partner or but I think it can solve a lot of day-to-day little problems that that can

[12:03] term, perhaps. >> Yeah. some stresses, but I'm like I think everyone has like a baseline of kind of where their temperature is set in terms of like where they are in life.

[12:16] to fluctuate within a few degrees of that. So, if you're all overall, like you're an eight happy, it's probably going to be, you know, a seven to a And if you're a five happy, you're probably going to be a four to a six.

[12:30] So, I don't think, you know, I'm I'm no more happier today than I was like 20 years ago. Uh but maybe I'm a little less stressed out. That's probably it. of needs met. You know, if we we talk to

[12:43] struggling paycheck to paycheck, I'm sure money could buy them a little bit >> Yeah, that's true. >> Okay. think. That's a pretty hot topic. All right. Number two,

[12:56] renting is throwing money away. >> Wait, so what is underrated is that I money away. >> Underrated, sorry, these are >> I think this should be agree. Okay, why don't we do agree or disagree? Renting

[13:10] >> Disagree. I think I think renting is probably a better option for most people >> I would also agree with your disagreement, which is that honestly, in a lot of these high cost living cities, renting is by far the

[13:24] invest the difference and you don't have to worry about being a landlord. >> Yeah, I'm I'm selling. I'm selling a lot of my property. I got one closing Wednesday, I believe. That one's closing. That's the duplex.

[13:38] estate property? Are you selling >> No. I have another one in escrow. They see how that how that goes. All right, next up we got how that goes. All right, next up we got college. Overrated, underrated, Graham?

[13:55] college? >> I think it gives people a really good basis for navigating like their adult life. But, obviously, I went to college. So, >> No, a basis is you throw them out in in

[14:09] the real world and let them fend for themselves. Let them just figure it out with a with a boss and like skills, taxes, accounting, >> responsibility. >> Yeah, your opinion is like sink or swim.

[14:23] Just like just get them out there. >> I I just think experience. Like, cuz you know spinning your wheels in college. Like, [clears throat] that you want to go into that that is required of that. Yeah, or

[14:38] you get into an Ivy where you could be around a lot of really successful people and get into those networks. Then I think, okay, maybe uh if you if you have a scholarship or something. But, other than that, I mean, things are

[14:51] like what you learn in college is is going to be totally outdated. I just think the the the best course of action right now is to be really self-motivated, disciplined, and embrace learning on

[15:05] >> And I think just about anything you'd want to like you have a computer in front of you. You have what people dreamed about having decades ago, and advantage of it. >> I'm going to say underrated only because

[15:19] I think that a A of people don't have what you just described, which is this like just go and learn stuff on the computer. They kind of need this system to be in so that they learn

[15:32] plan. >> Yeah, but you could still get that by >> Like they're going to tell you exactly what they want done anyway, and you get That is true. >> like most of what these people learn at

[15:45] college is not going to teach them what to do in their job. Would you argue college is underrated for at least the networking part, >> so so you're networking around peers. And so

[15:58] if you're at like you know, Arizona State University going to like crazy parties. It's like hey, are those going to be the >> What if you're at like Stanford or Harvard and you know

[16:11] >> are like the cursor founders >> but you could just hang out on campus. campus and be like yo, what's >> What's up, man? How's it going? You >> Yeah, you can, exactly. Uh even Michael Reeves uh was saying that what he would

[16:26] do sometimes is just walk into a Harvard lecture >> and just sit down and no one said anything and he was able to like just go >> Okay.

[16:38] >> We'll see. All right, we're going to go on to investing beliefs now. Uh number one, timing the market. Overrated or underrated? timing the market. Time in the market beats time in the market.

[16:52] >> Yes, so many data data studies show that that is exactly the play. All right, number two. Diversifying when you're just starting Diversifying when you're just starting out.

[17:09] >> I think I see a lot of portfolios of 23-year-olds and they have like 30 like what are you doing? I'm just just pick one. Pick one and concentrate into something just the S&P 500 and and call

[17:22] it a day. It's really just more about investing a lot, contributing a lot when concentrated. So, what are your opinions? >> Yeah, I think the S&P is probably or just like just a broad index fund like a

[17:35] like a VOO, a VTI, a VT. >> Mhm. enough as long as you just stick with it. >> Or if you're feeling adventurous, if you want to QQQ it up a little bit,

[17:47] >> you know, so be it. >> Okay. I approve of that message. So, that that is actually the next topic. VOO and chill, is that overrated or underrated? I think it's underrated.

[17:59] out there, but because it's so simple, I think the problem is that people get >> People get bored and they want a hobby. >> Yeah, and they're just like, "Oh, I'm it up, it's exciting for the first like month cuz then you're like contributing

[18:13] after about a month, it's like, "Okay, well, you want it to do something." Or you you go on Wall Street Bets and you see someone's making like 1,000% return with MU stock.

[18:26] You're like, "Well, you got an allocation and now it's worth $200 a share." And they get bored and then they start playing around, eventually losing and get bored again. >> That's right. All right, agreed.

[18:40] The next one is a 12-month emergency fund. Now, this is not a 3-to-6 month emergency fund. Overfunded, so 12 months. >> Yes. >> Yeah, over overrated. I I think Listen,

[18:54] I I think the the type of person to save up 12 months is probably not the person who needs 12 months. The people who need 12 months don't have 12 months. So, if you don't need it probably. >> Agreed there, too. AI stocks.

[19:09] >> Okay, I'm going to go overrated. >> I'll also go overrated. >> Little hypie right now. I saw there was a company that just put like AI in the >> Allbirds just went from a shoe company to an AI company.

[19:21] >> Gosh. Yeah. Everyone is now doing AI and it worries me. It reminds me of like 2021 when everyone was throwing crypto. >> Or NFT or metaverse. >> And everything was shooting up of like,

[19:34] "Oh, wow, they're embracing you know, they're taking Dogecoin now as payment." AI. >> Not everything needs to be AI. some of the value plays are the non-related non-AI related plays.

[19:48] Something like consumer or Costco. You know, something like where >> so? >> I guarantee they will because they have so many back-end infrastructures that they could replace with AI. I wouldn't

[20:03] be surprised if at some point they say, "Hey, we're we're letting go 20% of our workforce because we're having these robots now like categorize certain things. AI is going to predict what you're likely to buy and we could

[20:15] expenses." >> Okay. Thank you. Next category. Spending and lifestyle. Credit cards. I know what Dave Ramsey would say. I'm going underrated.

[20:28] like getting a credit card? >> Using credit cards. >> I mean underrated. Uh I would I would say if you're like >> Uh I would say overrated. >> Credit card churning was a thing for a

[20:41] >> Yeah. >> 2016 came around. Chase Sapphire Reserve >> Oh, yeah. >> card churning just became so popular. That's when I got into it. It was 2016. And I went through I had so many I I

[20:55] think at the peak I had like 12 or 13 credit cards and I was racking up points there. And then it became so restrictive. And so many people started getting worse and worse and worse. Now it's not even worth the time. Like, it's

[21:08] >> No. >> I've seen the benefits, but they suck. >> No. Uh now, I would honestly rather just like the Robinhood credit card. I don't have that card, by the way. Yeah, but objectively, I think that is probably

[21:21] >> back on everything, right? >> Yeah. So, like that's probably better that card. >> All right, this next one is an expensive >> Overrated. >> I'll also agree. I'm not married, but

[21:34] >> Yeah. Um I don't think you need to spend a lot of money. I I I think it's just like good vibes >> Mhm. >> Good food. >> Uh yeah, but the

[21:46] I wanted to cater Chipotle. Like, it doesn't have to No, we didn't We did not cater Chipotle. I said I was fine with get But like, I'm I'm telling you, if you if you want to get married, people would have the time of their life

[21:59] people would have the time of their life if you just rent like a farmhouse >> Yep. >> You cater Chipotle, you got Domino's pizza delivery, you go to Costco and you get like a thousand dollars of alcohol,

[22:12] you get speakers and you plug in a Spotify playlist. I guarantee people will have the time of their lives. And you get like some some games and maybe a petting zoo or like some People will have so much fun. It doesn't need to be

[22:26] >> I agree. I think that I've been to some weddings, they're over the top. The food takes an hour and a half to get to you. And by then, you're just like, "Dude, I use a pizza or I could use a taco right now, right?" Something like that. So, I

[22:39] agree there. And then sometimes expensive weddings logistically are just >> There's the ceremony, there's cocktail hour, there's golden hour, then you're there's a dinner, the dancing, and there's probably even an after party,

[22:52] crapping on the wedding industry, but >> Yeah. engagement ring. Expensive engagement rings, overrated underrated? >> Yeah, the diamond industry is a is a scam. The whole thing. And you know,

[23:06] >> It was a marketing campaign. >> It was a whole marketing campaign of the 3 months salary. They said, "How could we sell more diamonds?" Oh, why don't we just tell men that they should spend 3 months of their salary?

[23:19] And somehow that became the norm, which is insane. And diamonds, the fact that >> They're just carbon. >> Exactly. It it completely messed with has been going down. It's in a free fall, and the diamond industry is trying

[23:35] personally, I think there's so many other gemstones out there like a Macy's >> Yeah. >> And they're not like terribly expensive, little more delicate. >> Mhm.

[23:49] All right, we only got two more. >> Okay. >> First one, fun money budget. You want to budget for fun things. >> Yeah, I also say underrated. Tell me about your fun money budget you've had

[24:03] >> Um yeah, so I'm terrible at spending money. I can't do it. I feel tremendous guilt every time I spend money on something I don't need. And so a lot of times, I'll think to myself, "Do I need this thing?" Even

[24:15] though I want it, do I need it? No. I just don't buy it. But that leads to me not buying anything ever. So I made a challenge to myself to say, "I'm going find a way to spend it in a month guilt-free."

[24:28] >> Mhm. >> And I did, and it was not easy. thinking, "Meh, you know, I could have gone without some things I I think, you know, that was a good use.

[24:40] >> Yeah, well, a lot of it was really just better plane tickets. >> Like upgrading the plane tickets and upgrading some of the travel. Um that was that was great. That was great, but but still afterwards, I'm like, "Would I

[24:55] I'm like, maybe I would have rather just have had money. So, but but it's it's helped me get over the uh that anxiety of spending money. But, I don't know how many other people feel the same way as I do, like They they

[25:09] >> Okay. >> So, that's good. Last one, it'll be a >> Okay. >> Collectibles, like Pokémon cards or >> Collectibles, like Pokémon cards or gold coins or art, overrated underrated?

[25:21] >> Mhm. >> Uh what do you mean? You're going to say saying Pokémon, I'm going to say overrated. If you're going to say going to say underrated. >> on collectibles.

[25:33] >> But, Pokémon cards, I also agree right now very overheated. And you know, >> Yeah, as we're going to >> So, as we're going to that, but uh I will say collectibles are underrated. I've been picking up some collectibles

[25:46] >> I wouldn't call that it. That's not a collectible. That's a precious metal. The ones that I'm buying are like the collector's coins. So, they're not >> We're talking about like the 1920s saint >> Like the 1926 saint, yeah. And you know,

[26:00] >> Okay. premium on top. >> Yeah. I've gone on a collectible binge the part of the budget that I told myself I wasn't going to spend spend it.

[26:14] myself I wasn't going to spend spend it. I bought the entire 1962 I bought the entire 1962 Mars Attacks complete set. All 55 cards. >> Okay. >> I just think they're so cool for what

[26:27] they are, and they've gone up in value maybe like zero to 2% a >> Um I think they're really under appreciated. I was talking to Gary King Pokémon about this. He said that not a lot of people today grew up with those

[26:41] Mars Attacks cards. I certainly didn't in 1962. I wasn't even born. You know, close. I loved the movie. The movie was based on the trading cards. >> trading cards were only in 1962. They came out, parents were infuriated about

[26:56] the graphics on these cards because it was so violent that the parents got the stopped making them. >> Oh, so they're limited. they stopped making these cards. >> So how many of those exist that you

[27:08] have? The set? >> Full sets? Uh probably in the hundreds a full set in a decent condition. So I got them framed and then I started buying Nightmare Before Christmas concept art and storyboards

[27:22] >> and original artwork from Tim Burton. So earlier today, I took a break from the podcast to bid on items on Heritage Auctions and I won three items. >> I won the original storyboards from James and the Giant Peach.

[27:36] >> Yeah, that's cool. >> And then I won two Tim three actually >> Cool. >> And then I already own like 12 Nightmare >> pieces. >> So I love them.

[27:50] should collectibles be? >> Under 3% I I think would even be I would tend to think somewhat on the aggressive side unless you're like that's your hot I I think I think if you could take 3% to maybe 10% if

[28:07] >> If it's your die hard hobby. >> hobby. Like some people they like to go to the bar, some people it's sports. If your thing is I like collecting 1962 >> Yeah. >> fine. Or like certain artwork or certain

[28:21] see people with Lego collections that are like very expensive. And that's that's your thing and you're not like doing drugs or like, you know, just

[28:33] being being, you know, just crazy then I think, you know, If you agree or disagree by the way with anything that we've been talking about, let us know in the comment section. I will be in the comments perusing and

[28:46] I'll probably be responding to some of you guys. So, if there's something I've said in here or that Humphrey said that you said that is wrong or you just want to flame me for something, please let us know down below in the

[28:58] Humphrey. He flew all the way to Vegas to to make a like and subscribe. >> And I made these paddles, which I now >> You should you should give you should give these away to a comment.

[29:13] >> Cuz you want what we should >> To one lucky commenter, we will give >> Yeah, we'll both sign them. We'll both sign them. >> Unless unless Jack says these are really good paddles and he wants them.

[29:26] >> No, let's give them away. All right, guys, we are going to be giving away going to sign them. So, all you have to do to win one or or to be entered in the giveaway is to drop a comment and if you're selected, I will comment back and

[29:39] Bye, guys. >> See you.