YouTube Evolution & Vanity — Full Breakdown & Transcript

[00:10] program might contain strong language if you think you may be offended switch off [Applause] [Music]

[00:22] inside Mojo podcast where each week we're taking a look at another key moment in YouTube's Evolution through the watch Mojo lens I'm your host Rob and with me as always is watch Mojo's co-founder and CEO ashken Caris fan how

[00:36] are you today Ash very good this is not Vodka it's just water I'll take your word for it so this week is episode 11 we have actually planned 20 episodes for this series and we're halfway done uh so

[00:51] how's it gone so far in your in your view it's been interesting but I realize I'm a bit uh in AAR with regards to the voiceover of the ACT ual documentary that spawned this podcast so I have a bit of uh making up to do but it's is

[01:05] that on schedule when is that expected to come out um well I mean I could do the vo of like a 90 minute documentary in like a couple hours it's more the editing so I will be emailing you and asking you some questions about that but

[01:19] uh yeah yeah the material is done I just have to record it I gotta do the work there for sure happy to help I'm sure it'll come together easily enough so today we are talking about about vanity from Expo to Yankees PR PewDiePie Tom

[01:34] Holland and the VidCon keynote so there's a lot to cover um but let's jump into it with a bit of industry news first um apparently Roblox and YouTube have announced a new partnership what does this mean so as I've said if any

[01:50] company if somebody ask me like which company reminds you the most of earlyish company reminds you the most of earlyish YouTube I probably say Roblox similar ugc platform that started off like a bit weird you know what is this um and then

[02:05] the users who were on Roblox most of them probably maybe not as engaged as much as they were but they've probably stayed with the platform as it professionalizes and now you have like marketers joining the platform um and

[02:21] yeah so what does this mean to their credit Google YouTube pretty smart um well Google more than YouTube so Google will be tapping into roblox's uh platform to reach that audience um Roblox already does a good amount of AD

[02:38] sales most of the revenue comes from Roblox um but Google being the most Roblox um but Google being the most successful ad company in the world uh will be able to benefit itself benefit its clients it'll obviously Drive

[02:54] incremental Revenue to roblock so I love it I own shares in both companies um it goes to show like I thought maybe eventually a Microsoft or Google would just outride buy Roblox um possibly even Amazon you know

[03:08] they could see it as a related to their twitch platform um no I I like it I mean I'm not on Roblox myself but I I do think it's a you know it's it's a very very uh promising business and uh this is a smart move for both and just for

[03:24] more context what they're doing is they're they're granting rewards for players in Roblox for watching ads through uh Google AdSense yeah which is a bit um you know not taboo but like historically Madison Avenue doesn't like

[03:39] it when you incentivize audiences to watch ads makes sense you know you don't want to pay people to sit through ads because it creates like you know weird because it creates like you know weird incentives but you know given the nature

[03:53] incentives but you know given the nature of Roblox it's it's not crazy I guess um and yeah and again it just goes to show how Google has built this awesome ad everything you know they could literally it's it's always a call to serving an ad

[04:08] for them everything is an ad inventory it's crazy do you think that we will see more of this type of thing particularly like in the gaming realm I'm thinking like maybe fortnite or other big platforms that host a lot of Gamers

[04:20] might might leverage something similar yeah so Google to their credit does a pretty good job of weeding out like fraudulent uh at activity so I think that you know like Google can do this and give assurances to Madison Avenue

[04:34] that maybe some others wouldn't um but I also think the same way that Google revolutionized ads first with search advertising and then through YouTube advertising and then through YouTube with um skippable ads true view giving

[04:48] the power to audiences to sit through an adod I do think you know younger audiences like my daughter who's 14 now and she was like four five six when she would see an ad and uh dad couldn't skip the ad for her she'd lose her mind and

[05:03] that was just like a change in behavior that to our generation was crazy we sat choice well we enjoyed commercials good ones to a certain extent even um and bad

[05:15] ones but yeah no it's it's it's a different it's a different uh you know Behavior basically yeah it provided a good bathroom break too you know in the midle of your favorite show and then the shift to subscription kind of like

[05:27] that direction because even some subscription Services now have tiers that in include ads so is this a return to kind of like the the norm that we used to have yeah I mean as we've talked about it the whole avod advertising

[05:42] video on demand is a bigger much bigger opportunity than subscription video on demand but I think what you're alluding to me I'm not saying this as a commi there like these are greedy capitalists I think what these companies realize is

[05:55] there is like skimming the market yeah there are some people who would pay I mean Netflix is now 25 bucks whatever it is there are some people who will pay 20 is there are some people who will pay 20 bucks for a atree environment on Netflix

[06:08] um but many people don't want to pay that so they're like oh what if we had a lighter ad load and that's only 10 bucks so yeah I think you're going to see that kind of hybrid pricing model more and more for sure all right well before we

[06:23] get into the meat of today's episode we have a poll that just went up on uh the watch Mojo YouTube channel and we want to know how do you define how you've how do you define success basically how do you know when you've made it is it when

[06:35] you've got money when you've got fame or notoriety when you've got haters after you or when you feel personally satisfied so weigh in with your thoughts there on our YouTube channel and we'll revisit that at the end of the episode

[06:48] so last week you mentioned a few books um so let's use those to set the scene for today's episode yeah sure I mean look we're not saying anything new reading books is a tremendous source of

[07:01] reading books is a tremendous source of um wealth of knowledge and whatnot I think that goes without saying to like if you are a historian or like an English major I think business people and entrepreneurs underestimate the

[07:14] value of business books not just like built to last you know um the the habits of highly effective people some of the most rewarding books I've read are most rewarding books I've read are biographies of famous you know business

[07:29] Builders entrepreneurs whether it's the chief on William Randolph Hurst whether it's the publisher on Henry loose yeah I blueprints you know when I tweet or

[07:42] write on LinkedIn sure it's therapeutic sure it's helpful to gather my thoughts and as you could laugh it's fair but I go it's interesting to have like go it's interesting to have like unfiltered thoughts from a builder what

[07:57] did he or she see when they made these decision ISS uh that's kind of rare you know like history we don't really have firsthand knowledge of what was William Randol first thinking what was roer Murdoch thinking so I always thought it

[08:09] would be pretty cool to leave that eventually U for others as much as it's books are you know they really really help me and yeah like mid 2010s I remember vividly uh reading the the publisher

[08:24] which was on the history of like time people Sports Illustrated Fortune I'm getting a bit complacent maybe I'm getting a bit in my own routine and I

[08:36] was like look I'm like if you as a Founder um Founder um aren't like ambitious anymore or you feel you've reached a certain level of success because sure the first six seven

[08:49] years were really hard um and you don't have that stamina you don't have that drive that fuel and fire yeah I was like maybe you should [ __ ] step aside and uh pass pass the ball to somebody who's going to come and uh take some shots on

[09:03] that you know aim for the fence but then I was like no I still have that fire and was like I just have to get out of my comfort zone to push the team without it seeming like you're not appreciative or or have gratitude just for them to

[09:19] realize if you don't innovate and adapt you're going to [ __ ] die right it's as simple as that um so good part of what what we're talking about today is uh around 26 when WatchMojo was kind of like at the Apex of its um you know

[09:34] lifespan in terms of viewership maybe influence on on YouTube I'm not sure how you would Define this period but we're talking about uh a period of time when huge names like PewDiePie were acknowledging watch Mojo and actually

[09:48] roasting us um so how did you kind of interpret that when you saw the the type the the way that people were talking about about us so so let's watch it

[10:02] us so so let's watch it then yes finally it finally happened my then yes finally it finally happened my favorite Channel my favorite Channel finally did a video on me I'm talking of course

[10:18] me I'm talking of course about watch Mojo if you don't know watch about watch Mojo if you don't know watch Mojo that's like you don't know Jesus Mojo that's like you don't know Jesus watch Mojo the greatest top 10 Channel

[10:30] watch Mojo the greatest top 10 Channel of all time with such classic titles as of all time with such classic titles as top 10 anime chefs if you think I've been out of ideas watch Mojo it's on a whole new level of out of ideas top 10

[10:46] whole new level of out of ideas top 10 greatest sandwiches of all time you can't beat that that's pretty amazing that's pretty very quickly as you said this June uh 21st 2017 was on a plane headed from

[11:01] 21st 2017 was on a plane headed from Montreal to Anaheim LA LAX going back to Kelly for VidCon so again going to VidCon the mecca of this racket and um you know somebody was like uh PewDiePie basically and I was like this is amazing

[11:16] you know he's roasting us he's being sarcastic and all that but it was amazing I loved it I mean at the time um you know PewDiePie was the king you know he was the Mr Beast before Mr Beast was there no and it's great I mean if people

[11:29] you know I kind of took offense when you're like 2016 was watch moo at Apex I'm like let me let me think about this but no it is true like 2014 we were the seventh largest channel in the world not just

[11:43] because we were crushing it but because like nobody was on YouTube there you know um no I mean it was a bit of like again like we've always been like in our own little bubble in the trenches based in

[11:55] Montreal you know like it's funny the parallel like when I started my career like New York there's so much noise and like the YouTube Creator Community was like out in LA and it was like a therapy hour where

[12:08] there were all a bunch of like not in a bad way like insecure creators who were all like rejects of Hollywood and I used to tell them like get over this insecurity this is the future what do you care about

[12:23] Hollywood and I was like yeah this is like crazy town I don't need to be here to build this business I'm building but it was nice that we weren't just in a vacuum you know that like the the so-called um top channels were like you

[12:38] know roasting us which was what you wanted right because that was like validation that you had made it so to speak I don't know if you guys ever made a t-shirt that said if you don't know watch Mojo you don't know Jesus but that

[12:52] would be that's not bad yeah and I mean considering we did one with uh running out of ideas since 200 six uh we probably should have done that that might have been a missed opportunity so VidCon 2016 you were

[13:07] there as a speaker was this your first speaking engagement as a as a leader VidCon had already been around for a number of years and again like I wasn't you know into the I'm not want to take knocks at anybody but I remember like

[13:19] there was a site called Mashable and their founder Pete Cashmore was at every somewhere which was like one out of 10 he was there but he was at every other that like people that were always at every conference and like thought

[13:33] [ __ ] all of these things are big boondoggles and waste of time but you do need to get out there and and so yeah so VidCon was a bit of a like it was an anomaly and that I had hadn't been I'd be going to other conferences and

[13:48] speaking but it was like to their credit VidCon had built this kind of franchise as you know the Gathering Place of YouTubers and YouTube creators um so when down and you know started going every year every other year before covid

[14:02] hit and what was cool is when they asked me to talk about the history of YouTube for YouTube's 15 year anniversary that actually in some ways meant more because I was like oh you know they acknowledge that we've aside from watch M I had

[14:15] written about the industry for media post Tech crunch y yada uh so they were like this is a guy who could talk about the evolution of YouTube um so it was good but to be honest with you like I never really give two-third of zero FS

[14:29] about this stuff like I'm not saying that to be like cool like I do find like none of these things matter you know like I think we we've lived in 20 years of like [ __ ] with a lot of cheap Capital available and VCS throwing money

[14:45] at people but it's like you know if that Teddy Roosevelt citizen in the arena you know the the the man in this you know on the stadium like it's not these conferences like who gives a [ __ ] you got to be in the trenches like I built

[14:58] computer like firing off emails you know what I mean or like engaging with fans or reading up on what we should do but it's a balance act I also think as an entrepreneur you you could totally be uh

[15:10] entrepreneur you you could totally be uh you know like totally Mia from these events but it is a bit of vanity you know you mentioned that in the early so in the late 2000s YouTube was kind of like a pariah but at this point it was

[15:23] you know the bell of the ball so to speak um and and having these of like Fanfare around it so where was the platform at around this time so yeah so like I remember 201 even 11 12 writing that YouTube was no longer a

[15:37] paria and it was like a leading platform but mean nobody listened it was like a lot of Executives who would be like no you know this is the way things are and I was like yeah you're clueless but okay uh you're entitled to your opinion so

[15:49] yeah I think it was a bit I mean I don't want to make a crude analogy so let's use a young teenage son you have let's say you have like this teenage son who's like 15 16 and you're like wow this this young lad is a prodigy like he or he

[16:04] young lad is a prodigy like he or he could throw 95 miles an hour 100 miles hour slapshot can throw 80 yards down the field like as a parent you look at and you're like this kid is gonna just destroy it but the kid itself may not

[16:21] recognize that that's the way YouTube was right like I was like come on like this is Media I mean I would go to VidCon first of all I thought the whole concept of I can't believe I'm gonna go

[16:35] here I thought the whole concept of VidCon was jailbait like just a disaster waiting to happen because it would be a bunch of teenage girls scantily clad totally inappropriate but I was like okay kids

[16:49] these days This Is How They address they would be roaming around running after their favorite creators but then you also invite all these like middle-aged men largely to come to this conference drink

[17:02] conference drink socialize but basically all hang out at the same kind of Anaheim Convention Center it's like a ComicCon kind of like fan fan convention mixed with a business yeah but theicon when I was when I spoke

[17:17] it was like a I mean I'm not knocking these are our fans but it was like grown adults who were fans of stuff so you had like the 25-year-old dude and the 24 year-old girlfriend dressed like Star Wars okay fine but VidCon is like 14 15

[17:33] 16 yearold girls running around screaming and you're like this seems like a bad idea on many many levels but again what do I know um yeah I don't know but so VidCon was really like an eyeopener for me because I was like none

[17:45] eyeopener for me because I was like none of these kids give a [ __ ] about TV or movies and you could see what's happened now where even all of Hollywood is like and I'm like yeah it's been saying this for a decade but vid con really captured

[18:00] that well and then it got acquired by Viacom Paramount and you know then Co hit and you could argue is relevant today probably not as relevant as it used to be but it did it was a microcosm of this whole you know YouTube

[18:12] Revolution just to wrap up the topic of like vanity uh a big moment was when Tom Holland kind of you know he he was a bit Star Struck in front of Rebecca the watch Mojo lady because he'd been a big fan of the channel for years and that

[18:26] because that was kind of like a demonstration of how there's this entire generation that grew up watching watch Mojo including some big celebrities too so how did that feel Rebecca hello Rebecca Mojo I love watch Mojo no always

[18:45] I'm was watching the top 10 things always to watch Mojo that's me oh no way always to watch Mojo that's me oh no way you Nar oh my God can you do the intro for us right now oh really I've never done this in person welcome to watch

[18:59] [Music] my God this is so ridiculous I love your show I love your show I mean this was I thought okay I was a bit more like taken aback by the PewDiePie thing even though

[19:13] I'm not like into YouTube creators but I kind of was like okay we've been like kind of building this thing on YouTube and at the time like the king of YouTube is roasting us I was like that's pretty cool this though was again like just

[19:28] another example to the team like well why are we surprised like this is great super flattered but we're like here's an actor who had to live and breathe these characters and this fandom and this IP even if it was just for

[19:44] research he would probably come across our content and watch it like any other you know young whatever you know like young male in his demo and then you go with like well yeah everybody that grew up watching YouTube

[19:59] um they came across our content but again it just showed to the fact that we weren't like this New York or La based team that took this stuff for granted um yeah and obviously this I think comes up more when we're in

[20:14] meetings or if people anecdotally want to be like oh it's super cool it is to be like oh it's super cool it is interesting though um that for all of interesting though um that for all of PewDiePie's might accomplishments and

[20:27] I'll always respect any Storyteller entrepreneur like that seems more like fleeting you know it seems like flash in the pan will people remember PewDiePie or not but the Legacy the value of Legacy Media and these you know IP like

[20:45] Spider-Man and these traditional actors to me that was the interesting thing to me that was the interesting thing that it still carried such a clout and such an importance and it goes to show that even

[20:58] though everybody is like Hollywood is dead it's all about YouTube it is dead it's all about YouTube it is telling though that this still carries a lot more weight you know years after the fact than the the PewDiePie one yeah I

[21:10] want I want to follow up on on the comment that you made about the YouTubers insecurities about not kind of being locked out of Hollywood and how like what does that mean exactly has the landscape how has the landscape shifted

[21:23] if Tom Holland's influence will have this longer lasting impact than say PewDiePie's even though he was is like the number one on the platform well look I mean I think we're at a point in 2025 where these walls are really being uh

[21:35] washed away I don't think to most young viewers certainly even young Executives I don't know if they really see YouTube versus traditional anymore I think they kind of these lines are going to be pretty blurred yes there's going to be C

[21:50] you know like I have um you know we have some team members who sometimes view things still in a silo and I'm always trying to be like no no you have to just drop that like that's your not your insecurity that's like your bias I'm

[22:04] like you have to think of the world as um you know there's no real difference anymore like traditional media they made the Investments they pivoted look at the Investments they pivoted look at Disney with Disney plus um you know look

[22:16] at Marvel they have her own channel on YouTube with 20 million subscribers so I'm like you now have to drop this because you're you're just not understanding where the world is right so on the one hand I think that is is is

[22:29] so on the one hand I think that is is is a thing but the reality is I think human beings going back to you know ancient times were always driven by insecurities that is like a psychological thing that will never change

[22:44] will never change so I don't know if the cause of the insecurity um will have changed like if a young Creator is successful do they care that they don't have a show on TV I don't know maybe the younger audiences

[23:00] really don't view that that differently but everybody is still managing or could be something else like oh I only have 10,000 subscribers this other person is 15 so the insecurity is always a constant but it's what is the cause of

[23:14] it and how do you manifest it um and yeah and I think you know the most about podcasts do they really wake up and go like I need to produce content for Spotify or I Need video for YouTube no

[23:30] like people need to get them the the memo you're just telling a story and it's up to you as an intelligent Storyteller to determine is this an hourong video is it a 10-minute video is this an article is this an Instagram you

[23:44] know is it a Tik Tok is it a what you would have called a podcast but it's all blurring into one whether we like it or not so part of the title of this episode is Expos to Yankees what does that mean with regards to watch watch

[23:59] Mojo So I was I was producing when I was at ask was I was producing when I was at ask Mana radio show on the team 990 now TSN 690 um I was a big expose fan big baseball

[24:14] baseball fan and you know in 2003 it was clear they were leaving and then I got kind of behind the scenes reaching out to a lot of wealthy montrealers and media companies and at that point there was no

[24:27] money from like all the streaming and IP and all the things that Sports companies can do now it was basically money from the gates TV money to share and the Expos were Dead on Arrival but you know that's kind of when my eyes open that if

[24:42] you want to get any [ __ ] thing done in life like you can't go up to wealthy people and ask them to do stuff they did not become Wealthy by blowing their money on a stupid baseball team basically so I was like hey you know you

[24:56] got to put yourself in a position reluctantly I was like entrepreneurship is that path so we'd always joke that like we started watch Mojo to bring back the Expos not false you know that's true

[25:10] like there's articles I've written about that very noble cause by the way very noble cause but then I also realized like okay they're converting every freaking baseball diamond into a soccer pitch and I love soccer so I'm not

[25:23] blaming that and baseball is like an old person sport now they've made some changes to make the game more fun to watch um but long story short so we always kind of being in Montreal we were a bit like the Expos

[25:36] you know like like we weren't the Yankees we weren't like this company that raised $18 million you know with each chair costing $5,000 even when you have zero clients

[25:50] type of thing so we were always more like the Expo Scrappy getting the job done uh I mean to be fair we were more competitive and the Expos we were defeating I mean all of our competitors were like watch M Joe's hustling they're

[26:03] they would say this they were like Ash and his team are running laps around us we're here like the big fat lazy you know whatever analogy I mean this was their words right um and I was like okay that's nice but

[26:18] so around the time of reading the the publisher and all this yeah I was like you know what I got a great team of soldiers but I kind of not started to drink our own Kool-Aid it was the opposite I was like yeah

[26:32] maybe I and the team have gotten watch Mojo to this point but if we're really going to be like MTV of Our Generation if we're really going to be the ESPN the

[26:44] SNL whatever Beacon of like successful brand that means a lot generational yeah maybe my own insecurities and being humble I was like worked at the Warner Medias and the Disney and the craftsters of old Legacy

[27:00] Disney and the craftsters of old Legacy Media boy was I wrong these were people Media boy was I wrong these were people that I viewed as my peer uh I like them personally professionally you know we would have good rapports when I'd be in

[27:12] New York or LA to talk about the industry and it's not about them like it's not about Dick Tom and Harry Rich Antonello who started complex he wrote an article about especially postco

[27:28] senior level [Music] managers where those jobs that in New York pay 250,000 250,000 300,000 bases cut it in half for cost of living it's somebody making a 100 and change it's

[27:43] not egregious at all but it was this whole cottage industry of mid senior level execs who would just manage things Brands channels other people and yeah partly with Co working

[27:58] people working from home like what does what was the role of a mid-level manager and then media just starting to you know losing out to Tech and Google and Facebook then starting to lay people off it is true that that whole class of

[28:14] Executives have nowhere to go now and again I was always a bit ahead so like 10 years ago when I would meet these people who would leave the big ad agencies or would leave big media I was

[28:27] and they could come and work with my you know lieutenants and and kind of develop them into the kinds of people who could then make watch Mojo but I mean as we see now it's very hard if somebody has if somebody's worked for Warner if

[28:42] somebody's worked for Disney it has nothing to do with YouTube yeah like sure you could argue they're both media it's at supported or there's a subscription model zero and so these people and we all have you know like I

[28:55] have aiel course to success path the happiness insecurity sin it's everybody has a story it's our journey it's it's normal right when you talk to your dad he repeats a story when you talk to your uncle they have a story your college

[29:09] professor that you looked up to they had a Spiel this is normal we're storytellers right sapiens this is what separates us from the Bears and the donkeys we tell stories but I realize

[29:21] again me I was putting so much value on the stories these people would tell but that was like practically relevant to what we were doing you know was a very direct to Consumer very community-driven and these

[29:37] stayed in touch but they would be like you know as if we were in an NBA class discussing you know how people would launch a new magazine and I was like yeah no zero this is not the way the

[29:50] direction so how how did you end up structuring the company and how did that change over the years well I mean like I said in 200 16 17 we became the Yankees officer a chief marketing officer a chief Revenue officer and what I

[30:05] realized was we didn't really need that like they didn't really drive the kind of impact that I thought and not because they weren't Allstars but because we running watch Maro a YouTube channel and the way adverti and I knew all this I

[30:19] was like oh if we bring these people maybe they could take their experience people are not like that people are actually like this is what I do look like guitarists anybody Zack wild sounds like

[30:34] Zack wild he's not really GNA be slash you know like Jimmy pige you hear a riff you're like that's [ __ ] Jimmy pige you know and I I think this was my take Jimmy pagee and I'm gonna put him in this weirdo you know other kind of

[30:49] sound and style and Magic will happen and I realized no no it doesn't work change how would you have done it differently if you could do it over again it's going to be a bit harsh um again

[31:03] balance like I am very open to feedback like so it's B I needed to just weed out a lot of like stop projecting that people have a clue it sounds really context you're like wow what an [ __ ]

[31:15] unemployed blind deaf man and I'm like you are like I am you you are me I'm no different which is [ __ ] like now I'm just like it's fine everybody has their

[31:30] strength for whatever reason God gave me three skills which involve building a business that tells stories and building distribution and monetization I don't know how to sew I don't know how to knit I don't know how to play guitar despite

[31:43] having a great guitar behind me so I kind of realized that hey this guy had a 20 years because he played [ __ ] politics right like let's just call a really good at at sales because he would just drink a [ __ ] ton and be able to

[31:58] would then drink with him and he got deals out of it like I'm exaggerating that that's part of it it's an exaggeration but that's yeah so I was like stop projecting that and this as an entrepreneur listening like the answer

[32:12] is in your [ __ ] head the answer is in your gut you should talk to people but going to come in and build your business you know and this is what I've learned always going to open the door there's an opportunity but I kind of realize I mean

[32:27] people hear me say this often X person is not the problem nor the solution you know they're just a a tool not a that your tool like as a KN like they're a tool they're a means to an end um but so I was like yeah these people are not

[32:42] going to make us become MTV and frankly I was like we don't [ __ ] want to be MTV we're watch Modo so let's play to our strengths you know yep fast forward to 2019 and you did the keynote at VidCon

[32:55] that year so at that moment did did you kind of feel like you had made kind of feel like you had made it um if we're going to be candid oh shirt the Expos shirt yeah if we're going to be candid um we always

[33:11] projected and punched above our weight like that article on Tech crunch I wrote like that article on Tech crunch I wrote it um you know probably 2011 or so um we were not a successful business by any metric but like writing the you know

[33:24] being a colonist and Tech crunch made it seem like we were um and I really think like 2012 13 when we like had finally broken even I didn't need to be selling organs out of the back of my truck to keep the company

[33:39] afloat and you know what I mean like once the company I won't lie was a going concern I kind of felt like okay I'm in control of my destiny and yeah there's a lot to navigate with YouTube and fair use and a lot of [ __ ] and you know

[33:52] employees that probably also were not meant to be N9 to-5 desk employees but so I was like I would say 2013 this was more yeah like I was more happy I won't lie I was more happy for the company like the team it's a bit like when

[34:07] ernston young awarded us the uh entrepreneurship of the year I always said it's a personal award but it's a reflection of the company I was really proud for the team because I knew what I was building it was clear in my head

[34:19] when I was like five I thought I was the [ __ ] CEO of Iran you know what I mean like I'm just always when I was at RBC doing customer service as a lowlevel employee ranked 12 the CEO I think is 72 in the echelon of corporate slavery um I

[34:34] walked around like I was the [ __ ] CEO you called complaining about your card being declined I [ __ ] fixed it like it was like I was responsible to shareholders right so I didn't need this stuff this is heads the vanity theme but

[34:50] teammates that we had that like couldn't even explain to their parents what the what do you do you're producing videos for the YouTube like what is that so VidCon stuff I was like hey if you want to go tell your mom that like you work

[35:06] at a company where like your colleague the CEO is being asked to speak at need it you know and that's the the confidence entrepreneurs have we're I'm like not even the most delusional thing I've said today but to others it

[35:20] sound delusional and when I kind of see other entrepreneurs say delusional things I'm like yeah this this guy I'm like we need to talk this guy is this this guy or gal like you need this kind of confidence sadly now in 2025 has your

[35:34] definition of success changed in any way since back then well going back like 15 years I used to say success is three things fluid subjective and relative so definition of success has not changed you're [ __ ] [ __ ] not youon people um

[35:49] yeah I mean I read the the Kingo I don't want to take credit uh and this was not planned but since you asked the Kingo CEO he was like you know what success is success is when your kids when they're older want to be with

[36:04] you you know very nice that's very nice I I get that so to me yeah I won't lie success is being able to cook if I want to take my dog for a

[36:16] walk I mean I work seven days a week you know I don't care you know but but success is just to me success is not dealing with [ __ ] R oh I don't want called me out on YouTube on Twitter that's fair success is not working with

[36:31] [ __ ] tards much better great much better word no because I'll tell you what you could have the r word which I will not use and I apologize which is more like people who are sometimes slow no vindictiveness

[36:45] explains Neuroscience to me I'm like I don't get it so [ __ ] is just somebody who's dumb they're not slow like you could be successful [ __ ] [ __ ] is also people who just you understand are going to mess things up there's either malice

[37:00] or vindictiveness or resentment or jealousy or just not good energy people have to work with people you don't enjoy on projects you don't enjoy um that

[37:12] today is Success you know like a you know but yeah success has to change like change there's a problem where I think success is bad is that relative people unfortunately look at their neighbor and they're like oh you got the 2020

[37:28] five uh you know Homer Simpson car I need to go buy the bigger I think that's part of western I mean even in Crazy Town other parts of the world people always look at the I try to avoid that um but I do think that the fluidity of

[37:45] success is key and the subjectiveness is whatever you think it is but the relativity relativism of success is not healthy where you're looking even even like you know there are part where I'm like I missing in the 2010s

[38:00] there was a lot of spinning of the wheels for nothing you know now it's like my life I don't need complexity if people add complexity that is not healthy I just shut them out I'm like here's the beauty I don't have to deal

[38:14] but I I I've earned it I don't have to work on this project I don't need to do this well let's find out how our audience to find success with the the how how do you know when you've made it and I think unsurprisingly 77% of people

[38:30] personally satisfied which kind of Echoes what you what you just said Ash U followed by 133% saying when you have the money uh that's you know there's a there's a subset of people for sure who are more concerned with that and then

[38:44] six% when you've got haters and 3% say when you have Fame and notoriety so look [ __ ] in the world are those who kind of are like money's not important [ __ ] you money's important uh when you don't have it like let's just not be crazy here

[38:59] like money is not important because of diminishing returns yeah if you're a matter but it's so intellectually theonest I worked for a guy once he was bro we're not in the same boat but go on tell me how we're in the same boat so

[39:13] yeah that's part of it as well but um interesting what percentage set it's the interesting what percentage set it's the haters uh 6% okay that's interesting yeah that I I refer to that as the Nickelback effect when uh you know when

[39:27] every when more people hate you than love you I think you know that you've uh so you you play what instrument guitar guitar so you bring up nickel back so if professional musician would like somebody who earns money from playing

[39:42] yeah for sure that was a big aspiration when I was younger so if you could have Nickelback's career in a heartbeat in a heart a heartbeat I actually respect musicians I think that they have a very formulaic style of writing and and

[39:55] they know how to structure songs for Mass consumption uh but I respect them as musicians and as business people for sure yeah I mean it's funny because I we used to do specially more music list people were surprised like wow Ash likes

[40:10] everything he likes Taylor Swift I know these are great talent but I'm like I always go for what it is I'm like in that genre that's how I you know I don't to Taylor you know it's like as a tailor as a pop fan what is this good or bad I

[40:25] agree with you I think that is is Peak hypocrisy because any musician sure they might want to be you know Jimmy Hendrick or Prince but most

[40:37] of them who are intellectually honest will be like I would take nickel backs will be like I would take nickel backs but it's easy citizen in the arena to end of the day you know absolutely musicians you know it's

[40:50] like who are you to judge for sure so next week we will be talking about the covid poly crisis which is the era where I entered watch Mojo and it was a a I entered watch Mojo and it was a a weird time to be uh to put it mildly how

[41:05] did that go through crisis I mean we'll talk about covid covid was a bat at crazy I'll never forget I was in LA a week a month before my birthday is March 12th March 12 2020 is when they shut down so I remember I have a good memory

[41:20] uh but February I went to Ottawa for prime time and it was like nobody really was talking about it but then the week after I went to LA and I was in an Uber after I went to LA and I was in an Uber and I just not C I coughed I was like

[41:35] and then the Uber driver who turned out to be a Persian lady and you know I told you my name is Ashan in Western culture but in fary it's ashon so she was just like ashon I was like oh God it sounds like my mom I'm like she's like have you

[41:49] been to China I was like cuz it you know the the bat Market or food market or whatever the origins were and I was remember the origins were and I was remember going like okay if like this Uber lady

[42:01] is asking me about this this is going to be big and then I came back and our then CFO David was like asan we have to shut everything down everybody must go home I was like what anyway and so we did and then we'll talk about it next week

[42:16] which I felt a bit guilty but I was like if YouTube shuts down what if this what if that so hey what ended up happening was something that didn't really affect us in a bad way very interesting series

[42:29] of events so uh stay tuned for that next Thursday same time same place everybody thank you for joining us today thank you for your time as always Ash thank you I have some voice over to start recording soon for the documentary I realize [ __ ]

[42:42] we're already in April let's get it done I could get two hours of VO done in 30 minutes somehow awesome great awesome can't wait yeah good luck with that and

[42:54] we'll see you guys all next week bye everybody bye