VTuber Managers: What They Do & How to Find One — Full Breakdown & Transcript

[03:13] hello hello everybody hello welcome back to my channel I'm Mari and today we have a very special um episode a very special stream today um this is the first

[03:27] official episode of this amazing cool new podcast idea that I am starting called my virtual life where um my virtual life you know the name of this is going to be about showing the behind the scenes of what it's like being a

[03:40] the scenes of what it's like being a content creator specifically and most importantly vtubers and I kind of want to show you all you know not just behind the scenes but sharing all sorts of different

[03:53] perspectives and different just conversations that don't really get talked about here when it comes to being virtual content creator or just making content and starting off today I want to be talking about how Talent managers

[04:07] be talking about how Talent managers play a big role with vtubers and so I have my special lovely amazing guest I have Tessa here with me today hello everyone and Tessa is special because

[04:23] everyone and Tessa is special because she is expertise so to say in this talent management which is actually kind of an interesting term because I know of an interesting term because I know some people kind of default um kind of

[04:35] what you do as like just a manager like a V manager and I find like this Nuance of terminology about it talent manager to be um kind of fascinating like I'm curious like why why do you list

[04:47] yourself as a talent manager so talent manager is in a more manager so talent manager is in a more official term that is used officially in for any entertainers like you're thinking um more like

[05:02] Hollywood like with celebrities and stuff but it applies to influencers as well um cuz in like outside of like the vtu scene um for General Social Media stuff um people are called social like social media influencers they're like a

[05:17] type of celebrity and so like the people who help them with their marketing the who help them with their marketing the pr brand deals um contracts they they coord they help coordinate hey who what do you need

[05:30] today okay you need this for this kind of stream oh you want to sell this kind of product okay I've got you K I got you covered and we're going to talk about that and that's the kind of routine that a lot of T Talent managers handle and

[05:46] we're going to be talking a lot about that today I I hope and whether it's called a vtuber manager a talent manager a project manager a lot of it revolves around the same thing and a lot of YouTuber managers are project man

[06:01] managers a lot of others are more assistants in nature it depends on who you're talking to I love that actually I love that you use the word project manager because funny enough uh did you know that I actually uh am a project

[06:16] manager but not for like managing Talent um I do project management in uh stream production in like Esports yeah yeah and it's a very Esports yeah yeah and it's a very stressful job it's a very stressful

[06:30] job I mean you're telling me um but it's like for project management specifically it is an official occupation that you it is an official occupation that you can get a degree for a certification for

[06:42] there's actually a really really popular one in world recognized one called the the PMP um you basically get like certified by having actual experience and you can

[06:54] qualify for that and it's like kind of like a I forget how much it is to you got to like take an exam and then you got to pay for it um but it's it's it's got to pay for it um but it's it's it's an actual job it's it's it's essential

[07:06] an actual job it's it's it's essential for doing so much things in the world no I agree and you know part of the reason why I wanted today's very first episode why I wanted today's very first episode to be talking about this is um for the

[07:19] past couple of weeks no no not even the past couple of weeks the past several years there has been this ongoing debate about like vtuber managers Talent managers content and creation strategist you know the whole like bubble of like

[07:33] management for whenever it comes to talent and I kid you not like I think this year we have been seeing more people being more aggressive towards the conversations about it and I've always wanted to like sit down and like have a

[07:47] talk but since I'm not a a talent manager like I don't have the expertise to be able to really comment a lot about this mhm mhm and that's completely

[07:59] understand able and it's because like there's the so starting off like what does a project manager like do besides like what I mentioned like you know doing marketing you know so a lot kind of like starting with the Baseline

[08:15] specializations one can have so I would say kind of like a baseline for what a say kind of like a baseline for what a lot of people do as as Talent managers is at the very least they do a lot of networking they do a lot of of um

[08:31] analysis of data for like the content Creations side of things um like we're talking like opening up your Twitch streamer dashboard YouTube studio um

[08:43] looking at your socials in general and just kind of figure out okay what's working what's not working okay has anything changed since we first talked relationship with your client to determine what the best course of action

[08:59] determine what the best course of action is and being able to work around those is and being able to work around those lines of like okay what is best for what lines of like okay what is best for what we need to do here because if you this

[09:12] is where my own personal philosophy comes in and a lot of other Talent managers blah blah blah blah blah a lot of other Talent managers actually um feel the same way too um and a lot of them do work at like companies like MSM

[09:26] Talent Mythic talent and other kind of things and a lot of people don't really know what those kind of companies do and I'm free to explain the difference between something like MSN um Mythic talent and like Hol live and other kind

[09:41] of places cuz Talent managers are seen there too and a lot of them do the exact same kind of stuff just for a different type of company type of company and often times when you have a a

[09:54] manager they can take the form of different roles so with the whole reaching out for like a partnership getting brand deals getting like other kind of opportunities like let's say for example I had

[10:08] Mari Mari came like let's just say one day Mari comes to me with like an opportunity and she says oh my God Tessa Tessa um I'm going to get a voice actress for role oh my God I really do sound like this though it's true you

[10:23] it's so true but Tessa I want to be a voice actress and I'm just going to be like oh good Mari what are they offering you oh it's a it's not a paid opportunity but and I'm like nope stop

[10:36] and I'm like nope stop there but they said they'll give me free cookies like no we need we need the monies we we you have Labor that you're giving them and oh what's this in the contract oh they want to use your voice

[10:51] for AI oh my God we're not going to do that because you know why they're going to just rip off your voice and then never hire you you again and you know what's funny that you bring this up I actually did get an offer like that

[11:04] before I I have got an offer like that before and the am yeah tell me you said yes no I did not I did not say yes but the fact that I don't know figuring it on on stream that you took an offer like that oh my God no no I would never just

[11:21] say yes to something without discusting and okay so see I this is exactly why that's why [ __ ] I would I would never I would I re

[11:34] listen I read my emails I do and I don't click on any suspicious links usually if a company sends me an email I don't click on any links I just Google them they're talking about is legit and then if I'm still unsure that is when I will

[11:48] send it to my manager say hey can you like vet this for me can you like verify if this is an actual thing if it's legitimate and can you like do like a quick background check and that's that is what a lot of the job is and I also

[12:01] write a lot of emails for people and like when Mari needs stuff as well I will do the same thing and whether or not I'm the one writing the email or she I'm just kind of like on a Discord call with her like instructing her through it

[12:16] that's basically what I what I'll have to do and it's not necessarily like in a meeting time or anything like I'll just spend time out of my day for like 15 spend time out of my day for like 15 minutes be like okay Mari this is a scam

[12:30] cuz like there's there's so many spam emails and there's also potentially good emails and there's also potentially good ones and if those potentially see in qualifying where um you don't know whether or not a thing is actually worth

[12:44] whether or not a thing is actually worth your time or not and if it is then you kind of set some parameters set some boundaries with that and you kind of work through that the logistics of it and that's often a lot of what a talent

[12:58] manager does is they help with the logistics of all that and for the project management side of things for me it's like okay so we see like an offer right and it's like this big old event like let's just say she got like an

[13:13] offer to do I'm going to pull something out of my ass in thin air let's just say like Taco Bell wanted to sponsor Mari you know just comes out and drops like a Cheesy Gordita on her lap and it's a golden

[13:28] Copa Cheesy Gordita it has to be crunch trap that it has to be crunch trap sorry a a golden Coppa crunch trap and suddenly we're looking at an opportunity suddenly we're looking at an opportunity of a lifetime kind of deal and we ask

[13:44] okay um you want her to do this what do you want her to do exactly and then they'll give us the details of like okay we want you to say I love Taco Bell Senpai five times in a row every five minutes and like okay that's kind of

[14:00] that's kind of much Mario are you okay with that and she'll be like yeah why not and I'll be like Mari five times in like five minutes is a lot that's one per minute can you do that for like three hours she like oh probably not and

[14:15] we'll be like okay um let's email back Taco Bell and be like hey could we do it maybe once an hour and have your logo on the screen and take ad breaks every now and then to shill out Taco Bell Sama and like

[14:30] no you're so right though also I I don't I just I can't believe you use Taco Bell as an example cuz right before stream I bought this like did you know you can buy Taco Bells like this is not a promo this is not sponsored you can

[14:44] you can go to a store like I think it's Walmart you can buy a t a crunch WP Supreme Taco kit and I bought that and I made uh crunch trap Supreme before this so the fact that not only did you call I did not share this information

[15:00] with you at all so uh Taco Bell when am I getting that sponsor by the way just see that that's exactly what we're here for it's like okay we want to do this whole big thing and then we got to

[15:15] think okay we got this offer how do we actually make the most use of it right they're going to give her okay let's just say she got like for for every time that someone ordered on their app like they she would get like 5% Kickback

[15:30] right and I'd be like okay um so if you want her to do this much and we were to you know compromise a little bit could we maybe do 8% 10% maybe and we can have like a call with them and they'll be like okay yeah if you're willing to put

[15:45] in some more effort on marketing then sure and we'll have to come up with the budget and be like okay what's in the treasury here oh we got we got $2 in a

[15:57] handshake all right so so what do we need to do to get about let's just say $1,000 so that we can Market everything and we'll be like oh we can we can maybe do a subathon or we can actually like okay what can we do on patreon to do

[16:11] this to get this kind of money by X time and then we start figuring that kind of stuff out and it's like boom we have a we have a plan to Market this out like oh guess what we're going to do we're going to do a cabon I don't know and

[16:24] we're going to be like okay so if everyone is here we're going to be be or something and they get like a coupon in app to get like a free five beefy five layer burrito or something and Taco

[16:39] you can give up to 20 friends this code and we we'll talk to it Department it's like suddenly we have okay guys do you want free Taco Bell and you're starting to get people on collab and it's like okay so we're networking we're pushing

[16:54] this out all right cool we've got a plan and then actually executing that plan is and then actually executing that plan is going to be stressful and this is where uh it does differ a bit from manager to manager whether or not they want to step

[17:07] in and do the extra mile it's not necessary at all because I get a lot of questions about okay what do you need to do as a manager CU I get I get like do as a manager CU I get I get like emails and DMS from people like I want

[17:19] emails and DMS from people like I want to say probably like 10 15 times a month for the past nine months um you know that's crazy you get like a lot that sound that that sounds like a lot

[17:34] like a lot though it at the grand scheme it is um but there's a lot of people who want to do this it's a cool job um and being do this it's a cool job um and being able to be like okay so we're going to

[17:47] do this and how long is this campaign going to take from fundraising to you know doing that collabo on and actually making sales and getting kick back for that um that's going to going to be a stressful maybe like 6mon process right

[18:03] um and I'll be there for like Mari for example for like emotional support and on call kind of like supports and be like okay so what hiccup did we have today okay Mari it's 2: a.m. in the

[18:17] morning I know you got back uh home from your long day at work okay so um Taco your long day at work okay so um Taco Bell sent us an email in concern to you um uh cursing at uh customers during Supermarket simulator I would never do

[18:32] that I mean if we check the security footage there I don't know honestly oh wait it looks like there's a little bit of a lapse in the that must have just been a weird frame oh no I would never do

[18:46] weird frame oh no I would never do that you know okay you know um 90% of people with the word vtuber manager in their bio have no idea what they're research side just completely just made

[19:00] you said you get these emails not exactly made up it's just like it it is a question that a lot of people have and that comes mainly from like not really

[19:12] knowing what the job entails and yeah but when you do take the the risk to to bring on someone and there's two ways that that happens most of the time it happens through like a percentage cut of total revenue right so like if I were to

[19:26] approach you for example and be like hey Mari if you want me to manage you what's according to State of California I could charge maybe 15% I don't live in California but let's just say I did I'll be like okay so I am an officially

[19:40] registered talent manager here's my license okay um I'm going to wait you just said a license I keep forgetting that so there is a license there there are licenses for like being a talent manager but like I don't live in a state

[19:54] haven't had to do it yet but the fact that you just said that is very fascinating to me because like I said like okay just you know despite my as you said there is some truth to what's being said about like you know

[20:08] managers right especially vtuber managers cuz you know the fact that you said that you you need some states in at least America you would have to have least America you would have to have some kind of like license to be like man

[20:21] people don't think it's a legit job depends it really depends CU yeah it is a legit job and at some point I mean I believe once you earn over I think this is kind of like a

[20:34] US Federal Thing Once you earn over $600 you have to report your income through a you have to report your income through a $199 NEC tax form and the person who's paying you as a independent contractor has to issue that to you and then you

[20:48] has to issue that to you and then you then put okay I've received $600 or more for this job okay here you go IRS Senpai here you go um and it works the the other way around where if you are and this is something you and I can probably

[21:02] talk about another time privately but it's like if you are commissioning someone over $600 yourself and it's not being handled through like PayPal stripe kind of forms you do have to tell the person

[21:19] like okay you need to go through and file this this tax form if you're a US citizen and you got to get it done before April 14th um but

[21:32] for me personally I go through stripe and that simplifies a lot of things stripe and PayPal simplify a lot of things because they issue you those tax forms and you do have to report that income and for me it's a full-time job

[21:46] and so um reporting a good amount of money I I don't want to say my salary on stream but um reporting that amount of money

[21:59] is is just like any other industry any other job and yeah content creators have to do this too you know like we are self-employed um and what's it called I the way I I have to do my taxes I don't even want to get into cuz it's pretty

[22:14] it's pretty bad what I have to do with my stuff because and it's not like I'm making crazy amounts of money either it's just the way taxes are when you are self-employed it's just a very different way you go about it so the fact that

[22:28] like you know one manager managing is not only just like a legitimate job it's just interesting because um sometimes people don't know okay well what makes someone a qualified manager because again there's this weird like um I don't

[22:42] know if it's necessarily a hot takes I want to call it like a misconception there's a misconception that a lot of talent managers don't know what they're doing right and I think that comes from

[22:56] just understanding by the way I want to answer like one quick question in chat it's like is there an official license for strictly vtuber managers and the answer is for that exact title technically no it's it's a brand new

[23:10] at the end of the day you're still a talent manager and there is a difference There's an actual factual difference between a talent agent and a talent it's hard it's I don't want to complicate it too much again two in the

[23:24] weeds but those are two different uh designations for occupation um there's something else if you just think like agent those are the ones who strictly are the ones responsible and they make it their sole job to broker

[23:38] deals and like think of like an actor getting like a role in a film and an agent is the one that connects them to that um manager that manage is is is more or less like a business marketing manager and in for like vtuber managers

[23:53] it's a very new industry so it's like you kind of have to wear a [ __ ] ton of kind of glad that you brought that up because I'm sorry that I got to remember not to curse I don't want to get you demonetized it's not it's not too too

[24:07] bad on you thankfully YouTube's been a lot more lenient nowadays but you know it's interesting that you bring that up because I have um for everyone who may or may not know I have Tessa as my manager however I am also with the uh

[24:21] agency called vs and so what you had just said is exactly why cuz people are cuz people might think that you're in vots and stuff which it's you're not things like what you had just said like

[24:35] you specifically um you you probably can phrase this better than I can but like you basically help me with my day-to-day operations whereas vots helps me with operations whereas vots helps me with the like the like financial side of it I

[24:47] think I'm understanding that correctly um so V Roots have it they would be your talent agents in this case where they're the ones more focused on helping getting you those brand deals and opportunities whereas for me I do

[25:02] handle that when I can time to time but my focus is more on managing your projects more on looking at your data and okay so especially with the YouTube side of things and working with um your branding working with your actual video

[25:20] scripts and ideas and making sure that everything flows and your the quality of VI of your videos improve um and which Thank You by for that by the way thank know all the videos not not to cut you off but in case if anyone didn't notice

[25:36] that is because Tessa and I have like literally hours upon hours have gone through and the amount the amount of scripts I have sent her and she's like Mari this is your 11th script just sit there and just record the dang thing

[25:56] time that has uh also um I did turn up your volume a littleit so people can hear you a little bit better but yes I turned up my volume as well perfect yeah yeah yeah Crystal Clear yes I don't know the amount of times we have sat in calls

[26:10] cuz you don't just do that too as you said earlier sometimes you can be like really good emotional support cuz you know listen something that some people may not realize is that when you become a content creator no one will ever tell

[26:24] you how lonely it is like being a content creator because everyone is too busy trying to balance their work in home life or maintain their friendships and also work on their own content and like the really nice thing about having

[26:37] like a manager especially for like Tessa in particular is that there are just some things that I just can't talk to anybody about because no one really is anybody about because no one really is around me in my content and it's just

[26:49] really nice to like have someone to bounce ideas off of and someone who's just not going to like sit there and judge me for coming up with an idea that and like they'll she sit down and like actually be like okay let's see if this

[27:02] is actually a good idea for your brand and like does this make sense should you focus on this and it is nice to have someone to talk to for someone to talk to for that I mean so I

[27:14] think so I think um sorry trying to process what I'm trying to say before I talk but like I think one thing that is actually like um interesting about all that is like feedback is really like actually like

[27:29] constructive detailed feedback is actually really hard to come by in the wild because it's like when you're try to ask a lot of people it's not anyone's fault I I just want to make that very clear um when you're trying to actually

[27:44] get constructive detailed helpful feedback about how to improve the quality of your content um what's going to help make you grow and all that a lot of people will respond with do what makes you happy um and that or like hey

[27:58] just do what you want um have fun that's all good and dandy and that does help with like confidence and self-esteem but it doesn't actually help with like it doesn't actually help with like specific Direction um and it's like

[28:12] trying to get more than that is is a difficult thing and that that does lead to stuff like analysis process it leads to burnout it leads to just feeling kind

[28:24] of lost and then throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks and that can wall and seeing what sticks and that can take a long long time and um yes it's not anyone's fault it's not anyone's fault particularly this stuff is

[28:38] difficult because you don't want exactly want to offend the person that you are a want to offend the person that you are a fan of and you don't want to um go too hard to the point where you are seen as like backseating um a person's career or

[28:54] like backseating um a person's career or something and so trying to be a Confidant to someone is very difficult when like someone needs like a harsh truth for example I've had different people who've come to me and try to give

[29:08] me like the impossible right oh You' done that with me too though right I think well no not not quite no you have very concrete motive that and drive that

[29:20] you naturally have and you have a genuine passion for this stuff but I've worked with a lot of different people who just actually don't have a drive for because they feel like there's nothing else they can do in life and they're

[29:33] just kind of lost as people and they want to basically hit uh hit stream go want to basically hit uh hit stream go live get famous get rich and that is really difficult to do not everyone can actually do that because there's a

[29:47] talent aspect of this like you you do have to be a little bit talented if you want to like just be yourself and just kind of like go out and stream and all that and it it can work it works for plenty of

[30:00] it it can work it works for plenty of people um but like any occupation just because one occupation comes your way and you can do it it doesn't exactly mean it's for you right now or probably ever and that usually comes down to like

[30:16] me being able to break down like okay what do you want to do and it's like a what do you want to do and it's like a lot of I don't knows and I I and then they start admitting this is just science it's not like a a roll or

[30:28] anything it's kind of sad it's just like I'll get down to people just admitting streaming and they don't like their communities and it's like okay that explains a lot why you didn't want to

[30:41] ask them about feedback or anything or you didn't want to you know take any kind of interest in what they want to see or like what they're more receptive to and it's it's kind of sad and there's just a lot of lot of stuff going on with

[30:57] that and it's like it's really sad and so like I I do have to give that harsh truth to people sometimes of like hey I think you needed to take a step back from streaming come back later and sometimes that actually helps people a

[31:11] lot to you know see with Clarity exactly what it is they want to do other times it doesn't work and they they go on and do other jobs like um complete medical school one person did like they they were basically dropping out a medical

[31:25] were basically dropping out a medical school to do V tubing and and I was just like you actually like being a nurse so why not do that and it was because they they just they they were burned out of doing medical school and they wanted to

[31:41] do something fun for a while and I'm like cool you're you're doing this as a hobby that that's great but they're like I don't actually like doing this though and I'm like it's it's wild and so like if I'm

[31:54] looking at other kind of ideas I with with with clients like you Mari who have a lot of drive a lot of ambition a lot of like really Clear Vision it can kind of come to a point where it's like we have a lot of potential options a lot of

[32:09] potential project projects to do but we don't have enough time we don't have enough money to do everything and so we narrowed down based on a strategy that we had already set out of like Hey we're trying to do um lifestyle and vlogging

[32:26] and just more focused on you um we you like doing your your education we you like doing your um your lifestyle and Vlogs and suddenly we have a we have a specific strategy and how to get there we we start to figure out clearly okay

[32:43] we have all of these potential things to do what falls in line with that and what can we kind of smudge a little bit to to see how we can experiment or just see what makes you happy and we we take those R those calculated risks and if

[32:59] didn't like it we could at least say we tried but at the end of the day we we start to see our patterns and what actually makes you happy and um you you

[33:13] actually makes you happy and um you you you have seen yourself come around to enjoying uh a very specific way of doing things and you you seem to have a much livelier aspect you seem to have much more energy going into things and that's

[33:29] that's a good thing for me I I want that for you yeah that yeah you know actually you bring up a couple of good points here so to say one of them that I think is kind of interesting is how you said that um I am a lot more lively and like

[33:45] you know I think part of that is because you are one of those types of people who can give like that hard truth so um something that I think a lot of people don't realize is that oh I know this is

[33:57] going to be like like kind of hard to believe but a lot of people's managers tend to be their significant other I have noticed this amongst a lot of creators not all of them but I have noticed a lot of content creators as

[34:12] managers are their significant other so imagine having to be that person who has to give that hard truth to saying I don't think content creation is for you and that is your significant other do you know like how much that would

[34:26] like just hurt hurt because then you have that bias absolutely it's it's such have that bias absolutely it's it's such a um precarious situation often times and you have what's called a conflict of interest often times but if you can tow

[34:40] that line and you have a good enough relationship and trust with your partner you can make it work like there's a there's a couple that um vexor and zolan they're a married couple that make it work because they have absolute Trust in

[34:57] one another and they get they have the same sense of humor they get along very well their interests are align and they work very well together and I'm sure just like any other couple they have their spats and disagreements but they

[35:11] seem to have a healthy enough relationship to make it work for this relationship to make it work for this long and zolen and he ended up starting to work at MSM Talent as a talent manager while maintaining his his role

[35:24] with with a vexor and I do the same thing with my own girlfriend friend yumo thing with my own girlfriend friend yumo um we we butt heads a lot and we both have very strong opinions about things but we have a very healthy relationship

[35:39] we have a lot of trust in one another and we do tow that line and we have to find ways that make make things work and one of those things actually was like um instead of talking doing meetings in in the same room in person we actually

[35:54] found that you know just talking on Discord with one another in different it much more smoother and more productive and all of a sudden it's just

[36:06] this weird change of environment that works like psychologically that just somehow makes that balance that much easier and a lot of times for a lot of these other smaller creators with their significant others it's often because

[36:21] that's the person they can trust the most and if the partner is willing to do all that kind of work then they're willing to make those make sacrifices in their lives to prioritize another uh person's career like that and it it can

[36:37] get a lot of there's a lot of potential benefits to it but there's also a lot of risks because if if the relationship starts to strain then the person you are staking your career on can really make a dent on on your mental health and

[36:52] everything it's it's a very tough situation and risk to take and I even wish I had more people I could talk to to have that exact kind of camaraderie

[37:05] with like I can just talk to other couples who are in the same situation CU it it feels lonely there's not a lot of uh couples who are in that exact situation um no that makes sense it comes with its own challenges it's like

[37:20] goes like don't mix business and pleasure kind of thing like I I see like I see both sides of it because of that and you know that's why I think there's

[37:33] this like confusion about what is it that managers actually do or that they really think about everything that like you know that you've said Tessa I think it makes sense why there is this misconception that you know managers are

[37:49] just like snake oil salesman who just take your money and don't actually give you help or if they do they give you a bunch of like generic advice that you like YouTube like I see that all the time and I think it's because I I do I

[38:02] do too I you oh no no you're you're fine of like what you just said like again some of them are your significant others are they actually like do they have background in management or are they

[38:14] just kind of like your assistant that's just kind of helping you like put things with your emails or are they just there for moral support the fact that Tessa for moral support the fact that Tessa can do all of these things and not every

[38:27] manager does all that stuff like when you hire a manager you should not expect them to do all that for you you should be very clear about what it is you need a manager for and I think because of the spectrum of what you can have with a

[38:41] manager people just don't know what to do with you guys or like you know what what to hire you for they don't know what to ask what what to how to what to ask what what to how to utilize um like your

[38:56] utilize um like your expertise right and I think you have a a precarious situation like have you ever seen the show Kitchen Nightmares yes so one very common theme in that show and why you have those nightmares and

[39:10] kitchens is because you have a lot of couples who want to get into this kind of stuff and they want to start these businesses and that is a quote unquote to be one of the partner's dreams and the other partner is just passively

[39:24] supporting and they end up having to sacrifice a hell of a lot and take on a a hell of a lot of stress to make that happen and it often puts a lot of strains because the expectations don't meet reality and a lot of those couples

[39:40] do strain a lot of them end up separated and it's a very common story in America and that often happens in the whole family business aspect of things and

[39:52] there's really not like unless you have a very healthy relationship sh you have established boundaries you have good communication you are able to forgive your partner for and not sweat the small stuff that's a

[40:06] very big thing for couples to understand is don't sweat the small stuff otherwise you're going to get hung up over [ __ ] oh there I go again over bll [ __ ] oh there I go again over bll over nonsense no you're okay I totally

[40:20] wanted to spend a lot of time talking about this is about this is because that I believe is probably one of like the biggest misconceptions people have about managers especially

[40:32] Talent managers because okay let's say you know you don't want to have that strain with your significant others so you go out and you try to find a talent manager one like when you finally find someone to

[40:47] manage to manage you right you know I have seen so many different content creers that are not just vtubers talk about how like their manager didn't really like help them they felt like you know they're

[41:02] spending all this money to get like generic advice or they're being creepy towards them and I feel and like right and and not only that but like I've also and and not only that but like I've also seen um like smaller creators go up to

[41:16] bigger creators and say hey can I hire you to be my manager you know like when I first started growing as a vtuber I had a lot of people ask me hey could you like you know and and this is how they

[41:29] help with something I said okay what's up and they go um I was wondering if you could give me some feedback on like a model outfit or a concept that I I'm take a look CU to me that that's not like managing or Consulting I'm just

[41:43] like they're asking like for advice on a reference like their concept and I look little bit of advice on it and then they'll start asking me more questions should stream how do you think I should do this should I change my logo what do

[41:56] think about my name like what do you think about this and and I'm like I'm not qualified to tell you how to like start your career and then I see like bigger creators start like trying to become like a manager because they have

[42:09] all these smaller creators kind of like bringing this on to them because again we don't know how to find managers so instead what's the best person to ask is our big content creator and then people will charge all this money for advice

[42:23] that well to be quite Frank we just kind of like are barely scratching the like I'm not qualified to give people managing advice the advice that I would give someone is not going to really help them it's going to be the generic stuff

[42:37] I say in my YouTube videos which by the way they're not generic I'm sorry but if you can't do the basics of what it is for this as like a job then getting you still have to do the basics as generic as it sounds and I think like

[42:53] that might be like a another like second controversy is that you're spending all controversy is that you're spending all this money for what exactly like how do you know this person is not only qualified but isn't going to like take

[43:07] advantage of you like I'm constantly seeing snake oil snake oil like how can you tell if this person's going to like take advantage of you or not so if

[43:19] usually people have like a reputation right and um when it comes to strictly their management capabilities usually you'll want to look for like portfolios um credentials and um uh testimonials or just asking

[43:36] through the grap Vine and word of mouth and so if people have personal experience with a person you're usually able to find it pretty easily um and if able to find it pretty easily um and if you're able to find that you whether

[43:51] determining if they're actually going to do the job or not or whether or not do the job or not or whether or not they're going to do any other um things in general it's a very difficult situation because the honest answer is

[44:03] you you can't know until You' make that risk um like I see you scrolling through my Twitter and a lot of times I'm either retweeting like um tips advice resources

[44:15] or other accomplishments I've done with other clients other clients um and like I'll I'll help people get to um and like I'll I'll help people get to be guests at conventions I'll help um do

[44:27] all sorts of things debuts especially announcements and other kind of uh project reveals and stuff and so retweeting those kind of things are retweeting those kind of things are things that I I I take a lot of pride in

[44:40] things that I I I take a lot of pride in um as for like how people talk about me with my management stuff I I don't actively advertise a lot of my stuff because I I'm more focused on actually just sitting down and working every

[44:54] single day and then people just kind of naturally talk about me one way or another and if you were to tell everyone how you figured out about me and what made you bite the bullet what what would that look like you know that that's

[45:08] interesting that you bring this up because um what's it called uh it's kind because um what's it called uh it's kind of an interesting story actually so I of an interesting story actually so I have always wanted to get a manager and

[45:21] probably thinking to themselves well do I actually need a manager what if this is just my hobby do I really need one what if this is my career do I really need one and you know hopefully like how I share my experiences with what made me

[45:35] answer those questions because the answer is no you don't need to have a manager it really just kind of depends on what it is that you need help with for me in particular I have ADHD and in particular

[45:51] of that I have ADHD type c which is combination why am I bringing this up assume that ADHD is one thing where you're just as happy bubbly hyperactive

[46:03] blah blah blah doesn't shut up talking and that that's not true at all there is there's something even worse when you have both how can you be hyperactive and inattentive at the same time well hi hello I'm Mari so you know that happens

[46:17] and what is why why does that relate to me having a manager because I get off track I get off track all the time I want to do a stream where we play Minecraft or something and it takes me 45 minutes just to start the

[46:32] game because I'm getting off track from stuff if I want to make a video it takes me sometimes weeks just to complete a single video because it's so difficult for me to sit down like actually sit down in my seat I have a standup desk

[46:46] now to kind of help with that a little bit when I get like jittery but even still it takes a lot of time and not having someone to really hold me having someone to really hold me accountable is what makes me struggle to

[46:59] get content out on a consistent basis not only that keeping up with DMS of people I'm terrible at that anyone who ever sends me a message you can expect a response from me within three to five business days um then just trying to

[47:11] reach out to artists I have commissioned so many people who I still haven't received product from in years because I just forgot and let's be honest artists are terrible at updating like their commission works like I am an artist I

[47:24] can I could say this but we are and so I'm bad at remembering to follow up with them like that is my own fault I'm also bad at just remembering certain dates for collabs and then it'll be the day of the collab and like hey Mario you ready

[47:36] then I'm like trying to get everything together right in like 10 minutes so I need a manager to hold me accountable and to really follow up on these

[47:48] projects like helping me just sitting just having someone sit down with me and they call it like the buddy system you have someone there to sit with you to

[48:01] kind of like keep you on track and that is why I wanted to have a manager I also wanted to have someone to bounce my ideas off of that's not like a family member or like um you know uh what's it called if let's say like if I were to

[48:16] have like significant other be my manager like I wouldn't want to like put all this pressure onto that person and especially if like they're not a content creator and and even like I don't even like I don't even talk to my mom about

[48:30] understand what V tubing is so it's like I don't have anyone to just sit there and say hey I have this idea for a video and I I need to know like how do I go about this I don't have anyone to talk about that with I have other content

[48:44] talking about this stuff and you know the types of responses that I get from people is that I don't think that's a good idea I don't like I don't see your vision I don't think this is good like don't really understand I don't know how

[48:58] to help and that's something that I am kind of like tired of hearing I'm tired of people not being able to see my vision the things that I have or I'm also tired of people just flat out like making Digs at me because I do things in

[49:11] an unorthodox way so I went to go get a manager someone who's like professional and actually can look at things from multiple different perspectives and one of the reasons why I discovered Tessa in particular was because of a tweet that

[49:24] had gone super viral which was about the microphones I we don't have to talk about that but like that's actually how I I found you with t okay I can actually explain that one it it's been a both a bless that situation was both a blessing

[49:40] and I'm so sorry to call you out for a cur I got arrested for like a month but like it's okay I recovered but like um the tldr it is I was with a client and I

[49:54] was having a pretty bad mental health day and and I am neurod diversion as day and and I am neurod diversion as well and they had the worst audio I had ever heard like they were in a very open environment with their family it was

[50:08] really a really lowquality Samson microphone and their family was screaming at each other walking in and out of the room and slamming doors and

[50:20] just straight up screaming at each other banging pots and pans and the the client yelling at the family and I'm just like I started melting down I got over

[50:34] stimulated melting down I was tipped over the edge on that and I just went to Twitter because I had no impulse control for that very one moment I it just takes one moment sometimes to just not have control sometimes and you just go and

[50:51] for the most part I'm good at this stuff like pretty like these days i' I've been a lot better about these kind of things but like just this one day in in a in a but like just this one day in in a in a very uh nice January

[51:06] very uh nice January 2022 day uh 2023 day and it just did not work out for me that day and I went on this rant I was accused of grifting through um putting out Amazon affiliate links when that was actually

[51:22] debunked and I was just trying to be helpful but at the same time it was an it was an it was an autistic melt toown and thank you for saying that because I was just I just I didn't know if you were comfortable with saying that like

[51:36] sometimes people don't realize we're ner are virgin like over stimulation overstimulation it's it's really hard to control sometimes like when you see like kids who there's this concept called masking

[51:49] versus not masking and masking is being able to like keep your cool and depress a lot of the more autistic traits and it's like um I had to learn that through

[52:02] it's like um I had to learn that through therapy actually and so um being able to do that it has its limits sometimes and for kids often times you hear them kind their ears because they're over stimulated they're they're in pain

[52:15] they're crying and that's why they're like they're they're having meltdowns in like they're they're having meltdowns in public that happens to adults it it it really does and you know sometimes taking a nap is the thing that helps

[52:27] for me I I went out and ranted cuz I didn't want to experience that again it was it was lack of impulse control in that one one evening and um I don't know

[52:40] that one one evening and um I don't know like it it's like it happened and it is what it is and as a result I've met so many friends as a result of that met so many amazing people and despite being dragged by unexpected amount of people

[52:58] um it gave it it gave me opportunities to meet a lot of people like me like me yeah yeah like me like me you can continue your story but I'm I'm okay you don't have to feel bad for me um but it that that was the gist of that situation

[53:14] but that's the thing though like I have definitely had um so I don't have autism definitely had um so I don't have autism but I have ADHD and um because I'm very but I have ADHD and um because I'm very high functioning um I still have ADHD

[53:26] high functioning um I still have ADHD episodes surprisingly I do and I've public meltdowns like not even just on Twitter just in public and it's very bad for people who are around me who have to experience it oh my God it's so

[53:41] funny because that's exactly what Pippa Pippa of all people DMD me out of the blue for that exact situation she like you're not wrong and no you shouldn't be being dragged for this I understand what you're going through I'm like wait what

[53:55] I love pppa she so she she followed me and I'm just sitting she she followed me and I'm just sitting here like okay um what the [ __ ] is going on and I start making more and more friends like that and here I am now um

[54:07] you're so right though because like yes that is how I saw you but here's the thing I didn't like just say oh I just saw you having like an autistic melt I was like yep that's my manager right there no like I I saw what you wrote and

[54:20] I did not personally when I had read that I didn't think you were being condescending I didn't think you were trying to be all high and mighty looking down upon us poor people or something like that I didn't think that at all or

[54:32] not think that I thought to myself when I had read that I was like wow you know what I remember back in the day when I first started off with my um my blue yeti and I remember how much I would hate like you could hear everything in

[54:45] like the room you could hear my dog barking you could like hear anytime I like I don't know rubbed my nose or something or like swallowed you could hear it and it it all comes down to just not setting your microphone correctly

[54:57] and not setting your stream room set up and like you know having a proper microphone is really essential not saying that blue yeti is not a good microphone you can very much make a Blue Yeti sound amazing in hindsight like for

[55:12] recommended to a lot of clients to actually use a Blue Yeti very actually use a Blue Yeti very specifically for ASMR it it has enough sensitivity to actually make ASMR work with the with the binaural audio Channel

[55:26] with the with the binaural audio Channel setting and in hindsight for me like one of the reasons why I was specifically targeting USB microphones was because I have a lot of clients who aren't good at cable management and so a lot of their

[55:39] USBS end up they're they're cheaply made and so with not delicate care they do get ruined over time and that can cause static interference I'm also very sensitive to sound and so I can hear that it does it drains me it bothers me

[55:55] and so like um things have really progressed did you know that they have shoe strings for the cables these days they do they do because of that and like it's still it's still it's a valid reason for that to like upset you and

[56:08] it's it's a little annoying but I think we're all aware that like the internet narrative on you and kind of ride with it until they die but like when I saw I was like wow this is actually really good advice who is this person and so I

[56:23] took a look at your profile and I was like oh they do like men and stuff huh follow this person and keep an eye on them and I think I like kept an eye on them and I think I like kept an eye on you for an entire year I entire year I

[56:35] just kind of watched you I do this to a lot of people I just I just watched you just and every time like you would tweet something you would always give amazing advice that's Aly cat behavior I hope you know that and just slowly inching in

[56:50] for the their new home owners to give them food and then they eventually just move in I mean you know anyone who needs to pay mean you know anyone who needs to pay their taxes in the coffee shop yeah

[57:03] anyways you're right you're absolutely right but yes I kept an eye and I was like hm you know in the back of my head I always knew like oh it' be really nice to have a manager but I at that time in my life I couldn't justify hiring like a

[57:17] manager because again I was just like everyone else I thought well what is it that they really do why would I spend all this money um not knowing like what I'm going to have them do I have like this weird thing where I want to have a

[57:32] lot of control with my content and something that I really don't like especially when it comes like hiring a video editor is that I don't like not having control over my stuff and I know that's probably like weird but there is

[57:45] an art to how I make my content and I want to have control over that and so having a manager I was had I had the misunderstanding that oh if I have a everything I say and do tell me what I can and can't do I mean I've seen plenty

[58:00] of big vtubers who have PR statements literally written for them where it forgot to take it out like I just I don't want that to be me I don't want to spend all this money and like be controlled hi today we're going to be

[58:15] talking about this problem problematic person lauram person lauram ipsum yeah Laura

[58:27] no nothing but like okay okay so let me answer the question what made me bite the bullet to like actually say you know what no I need a manager I not only need a manager but I want Tessa as my manager because I have looked at other managers

[58:42] I have I've I have definitely been watching for a couple of years now um lots of people and what I particularly liked about Tessa's work is

[58:54] that every time every like person you have worked with I have seen the change I have seen like the glow-ups that everyone has when they have worked with you which tells which told me that wow she must actually be like providing some

[59:11] kind of perspective on them because this person used to be like this and now they about them I'm not saying like you make you're making people not be themselves but it's like they have some new understanding about content and how to

[59:25] carrys accordingly and I was like wow that's but you've been listed on certain projects that um whenever you see like the credits pop up on screen I would see your name and I was like wow she was a

[59:38] part of this that's very interesting okay all right and plus the advice that you give it's one of the biggest like controversies I see people when it comes to like having bad v2v managing experiences is that they're paying all

[59:51] this money to get generic advice but that quote unquote generic advice I see like your live streams you just flat out talk about and I was like okay so she's just giving this stuff away for free what is it that I'm actually paying for

[1:00:04] well at that point in my life I was at probably like the lowest point in my but I was not doing good I was not in a that time and I kind of like looked at myself what is it that I want what

[1:00:19] career do I want to do what do I want to do in life I want to be a YouTuber I want to be a YouTuber and I when I realized that I said okay what's preventing me from doing this I don't like I I don't have any direction I

[1:00:33] guidance like I said earlier the things with what's the investment I'm going to have to make to do with this and I said I need to actually have someone manage me so that's when I decided to send you

[1:00:46] actually paying for and what is it that you can do and I can't remember the first message I sent you I'm pretty sure it was like a really long and weird and like venty like novel I don't it was weird and somehow you just took it all

[1:01:00] and you're just like okay Mar here's a head Pat here's a cookie for you go get some Chucky milk let's have a chat that's kind of where let's have a chat that's kind of where it

[1:01:16] went I mean pretty much and I I get that a lot actually um and whenever I complete a debut and I'm I actually list myself as a I don't always list myself cuz you know details get lost sometimes um cuz debuts are really stressful

[1:01:32] really stressful so it's easy it's easy to to miss some details so like with when I am credited like for example another client Eden um that was a really big debut and that was something she was planning for like two years and I came

[1:01:48] planning for like two years and I came in about like 9 months to go and basically a lot of things were stalled and I just kind of got in immediately you know laid everything out revved the engines and we

[1:02:02] we got everything done and you mentioned it earlier about how like a lot of artists are not able to manage their time effectively thus not being able to communicate very effectively and so a lot of what I do is I make sure as a

[1:02:17] project manager I make sure that stuff gets done on time and sometimes I I falter a little bit um everyone does with their job but um I do make sure to

[1:02:30] make up for lost time and update timelines and make sure that it's all going to be on time and if there are delays that it's not that bad of a delay delays that it's not that bad of a delay I try to make sure that everyone is able

[1:02:44] to be on the same page when it comes to debuts but with like you for example I things that you're actually passionate about that you're actually going to be fully into because cuz like if you're playing rage Shadow Legends I don't

[1:02:59] think anyone on your channel is going to want to watch it I like I'm going to be completely honest and and as as lucrative as a lot of and and as as lucrative as a lot of those mobile games can be it's or a lot

[1:03:12] of those mobile games can be it's it's often not exactly productive unless it's like a big Trend in meme kind of like uh Nick what how do you spell it Nicki yeah Nick yeah yeah you know it's kind of funny

[1:03:25] bring that up because like I have mobile game sponsors are very like hard to work take them is cuz they're they're too stressful um they really are and but

[1:03:38] day but you're right like Nicki had such a good like meme especially with the um well and the fact that the whole game is made out of live 2D and I just think mobile game but still like it's like what you said there's so much that goes

[1:03:54] what you said there's so much that goes into this and like you know um you're not the only person I have reached out to for like to talk about on this episode because you know you're what's a since you're my manager or one of like

[1:04:08] my uh like my managers um you were able to have time to come sit here and talk with me but I have reached out to other like vtuber managers to get like their perspective and their insights on what is they do in their day-to-day job

[1:04:21] annoying that I keep going back to this question but what is it that a manager does what are the benefits that you get from a manager and um I I have like a I did like a little short questionnaire for some other managers that I reached

[1:04:35] out to not everyone was able to get back to me because you guys are very busy like managers are very busy they're they're doing stuff but we I um I did get a couple of responses from some people that I kind of wanted to just uh

[1:04:49] kind of like gloss not really gloss but kind of like review just a little bit it has to listed everything else that she has done for me and for other she has done for me and for other clients stuff but there's other types of

[1:05:02] managers that people can hire and one of the people that I I had respond to me is um specifically like how you had mentioned earlier an agent where they specifically help manage emails inbounds and outbounds they do their best to like

[1:05:16] vet people get rid of scams and yes I have been given so many scams so many scams that like my agents i v Roots help vet for me and they straight up like and you know what the best part about having the the vro boys is that I never have to

[1:05:32] check my emails ever I never have to stress about my emails because they do not a scam is something that they believe I would be interested in they got like an email that I think would be interesting to you and so like this

[1:05:47] person here also does that they're an agent so they help with the negotiations between clients and making sure talents are getting paid what they Des deserve that is the biggest thing that so many content creators have to struggle with

[1:06:00] undercut because companies take advantage of them because they realize you don't have a manager so they think you're easy pickings they make you do all this work for just pennies and like you know they might offer you like $500

[1:06:13] money I've never made that you could be getting thousands of dollars if you had a manager or an agent to negotiate that for you you need to know your worth you don't know your worth and that's why like agents and managers can help you

[1:06:27] with that kind of stuff because I didn't know my worth the amount of times I realized how much I was underpaid in the past before I had an agent or a manager because I didn't realize I could negotiate the things that I can now and

[1:06:42] I'm not even that big of a Creator so if you put it into like perspective on like a spectrum of like your value even if you only have 10 viewers do you realize how valuable your 10 viewers are they're a lot more valuable than a company's

[1:06:54] why have an agent to help show your worth like hey they might only have 10 viewers but guess what each one of those 10 viewers is spending like 20 to like 10 viewers is spending like 20 to like $100 on them per like month do you know

[1:07:07] like that's very monetizable that's conversions your your audience is worth so much more money like like in in the sense of like they like like in in the sense of like they will buy products and so you deserve to

[1:07:19] be paid more for that that's something that an agent can help you with and help stress about any of that you don't need to like sit there and say why you're worth the money they do that for you and they back it up with your numbers and

[1:07:31] to go through and you don't have to stress about it another thing um uh asked them what do you do as a manager is uh I love this person so much if they

[1:07:45] know who they know who they are um but this particular person is very different than what I have ever seen a manager do even with like Tessa for example this particular person does more on

[1:07:59] assistance duties rather than content management and planning like in particular they do a lot of communications from sponsorships to General Public Outreach or um any type of communications before it gets to the

[1:08:13] talent this person vets all of that imagine having to talk to so many different people and then you present that to the talent after you've already that to the talent after you've already like kind of scrubbed through it all

[1:08:26] then something else that they do is connecting people um if there's not just like you said like networking um occasionally you know doing sponsorships they talk about how they keep in contact with the staff um in case if like their

[1:08:40] with the staff um in case if like their talent's not able to respond um and interestingly enough this actually makes this person go to like let's say it's like a convention and there's like a sponsor type of convention uh for the

[1:08:54] talent sometimes times like this person will go to the convention for the talent because of like being like I guess like the middleman so to say I'm not sure if that's the right word but being able to be that person who

[1:09:07] everything is secured for the talent like literally flying yourself to a convention to make sure the person has a place to stay in a hotel uh the panels not just doing this last minute like being that person to go there and make

[1:09:23] when you're Talent arrives they're not stressed and confused and like um uh like not sure where to go and what's happening so yeah they're kind of like as a standin yeah a perfect example as a standin um what another thing that

[1:09:39] this person does for their talent is guest preparation during events um they handle all the different multitudes of people like doing interviews for different shows um ease the tensions that some of these other people might

[1:09:53] have and assist them like if you have someone like for example if I if it people on my show Tessa would be the one like easing the other creators being like hey what are we anxious about okay let's try to like get us all hyped up on

[1:10:08] that this person goes out of the way and does that holy cow that's a lot and um the last thing that this person does is video editing yes this is a

[1:10:22] does is video editing yes this is a manager who also video edits so they take the talents content they edit it they tell the story they make they take care of everything everything in the sense of like from this conceptualizing

[1:10:38] of the uh of the concept all the way to the video being publish and then they'll go and publish the video help them with tags thumbnails titles all of it and tags thumbnails titles all of it and that is something that um I don't see a

[1:10:50] lot of managers do because you can only put so many skill points in different areas of expert and like personally if this were me I Thin trying to do all of that that's why I I have Tessa to help me and I I'm

[1:11:03] trying to find like video editors to work with so I can ease out of that and start focusing more on Art because it's hard to handle the networking handle the advents you know um talking to all these people and then streaming and then

[1:11:18] having to edit and then do art and like it's a lot so the fact that like this is phenomenal Grant they only have one talent that they manage and I think that's why they're able to do all of that but still I find that like it's

[1:11:31] very interesting how you have like such a spectrum of what it is that you can do that was like a really long thing but I just find it's it's a it's a really good good set of points and I just wanted to add by saying like while this

[1:11:47] person does do video editing I I do have a few other examples in in mind I'm not a few other examples in in mind I'm not going to name names but like um they they definitely do that is that is a thing that happens and it's not exactly

[1:12:01] normal but it's not a bad normal by any means but if you do happen to have that kind of Trifecta of talent it they're a keeper for sure yeah um it you just have

[1:12:13] to make sure like you're communicating CU like it's a two-way street while while Talent managers can and you you are paying them like they're also kind of like business partners not officially like on paper but they are they're

[1:12:27] like on paper but they are they're invested in your career yes and and you're all they're their reputation is closely tied to your career because you're it's a two-way street of risk where you're handing your career over to

[1:12:41] them and they're handing their career over to you and vice versa and it's it's a situation of really high stakes trust and a lot of PE there are examples of people who take full advantage of that thinking that it's not going to it it

[1:12:57] nothing's going to happen to them but that they they and we'll we'll get to that they they and we'll we'll get to that um but it's it's definitely like it's it's difficult to kind of talk about that kind of stuff in public

[1:13:10] because often times you are confronting with like ndas you're also confronting um trying to tow the line between yeah the the privacy of your clients but also the the privacy of your clients but also with um because like for example like

[1:13:25] while it is public data some clients might not be as comfortable with you talking about their their projects in totality you know because that is something that they don't want Spotlight on and true um it's it's not always an

[1:13:40] available option and like if I were to um join like a a talent management um join like a a talent management agency like um let's say MSM or Mythic talent I do have to give those portfolios but before I even do that

[1:13:55] that I have to ask every single client permission explicitly and if there is a no in that I have to respect that and leave them out when giving my portfolio and often times I'm often so busy with

[1:14:09] handling projects that it just does I don't have the time usually to put out um portfolios yet I should I should have a website and all that that's you know nice and professional but I'm more focused on building connections and

[1:14:22] focused on building connections and doing all that and um I wanted to you because there are some really important questions that I want to dissolve and questions that I want to dissolve and one thing uh that I that I did see as

[1:14:35] not exactly a red flag but it's also just like pump the brakes a bit because like if you're like really really small like underneath a like like underneath a like uh I would say like 35 CCV at the very

[1:14:50] least like you're really getting started often time unless you're like looking for like like debut management and you're looking you have a lot of resources at hand to really go big or go home kind of deal unless like if you're

[1:15:04] just like starting from scratch and you have like no resources at all and you're trying to work with a manager I personally always kind of tell a lot of personally always kind of tell a lot of people that it's not worth the time on

[1:15:18] people that it's not worth the time on both ends because if you're trying to Prior you have to prioritize your needs and while everything we're talking about is a really good thing for the because like about

[1:15:31] 95% of people never make it to affiliate that's that's just kind of a statistical fact if you look at places like solome twitch tracker um marketing research reports uh concerning Twitch streaming in the Creator economy for economic

[1:15:46] in the Creator economy for economic reports you're going to see often times reports you're going to see often times that 95 to 98% of people never make it to twitch partner let alone make it past affiliate and 99% of

[1:16:00] affiliate and 99% of people don't get much further than just people don't get much further than just getting that that partnership and and burning out and spiraling out and so like trying to prioritize your needs

[1:16:14] like I would definitely say like managers aren't exactly at the bottom they're kind of like middle of the road cuz like I would say like you know make sure all your bills are covered and you have S a sound financial plan going in

[1:16:27] and then if you had discretionary budget after that you know after doing all of your commissions and having a discre like a discretionary budget for that take a look at video editors I always recommend that to people either way and

[1:16:42] if you're um there's a lot of advice online that says like oh everyone needs to get on Tik Tok YouTube shorts Instagram reals you know that's funny that's so funny because didn't you and I have a

[1:16:55] about how that's not necessary for me and we've proved it it's not it's not because and I've had other clients like like Yumi who we we spent so much time

[1:17:07] putting into shorts and it just didn't really pan out for one reason or another and that's just kind of the the way the cookie crumbles for some Brands and some

[1:17:19] people's humor and time and place like some people are just not meant for instead you should put your efforts into something like long form content on something like long form content on YouTube and um trying to put in some

[1:17:33] time towards like managing your community on Discord um there's other avenues to build up a community and if you want more than anything I think most vtubers would need a vtuber

[1:17:48] assistant specifically like an administrative assistant like Mari was talking about earlier because the major the majority of the time there's a lot the majority of the time there's a lot of resources that are not utilized with

[1:18:01] with talent management specifically and so it like assume you have a video editor right you're getting a lot of those needs point out you already have that brand aware like some sort of brand awareness strategy happening that needs

[1:18:15] to happen one way or another where you could use a talent manager is then going could use a talent manager is then going in after you have enough money to spare for our talent manager to step in and be like okay so I see this approach that

[1:18:32] content and let's analyze the content let's analyze your vods let's analyze your your your YouTube videos let's take a look at the back let's let's take a look under the hood and then determine like okay here's what's going wrong okay

[1:18:47] does okay I'm going to have a talk with the editor okay let's try this okay this is working or it's not working okay if it's not working here's what we can do and you're starting to have problem solving and critical thinking and

[1:19:02] brainstorming together and creating those kind of solutions does help those kind of solutions does help accelerate that growth a bit and it because it can always come down to your own audience and and but also another

[1:19:19] hard truth it could also come down to you and your own like I I hate to be kind of a dick but skill issue bro no that makes sense like sometimes Talent that makes sense like sometimes Talent is a skill set you know like improving

[1:19:32] um acting and being able to um have enough social etiquette and skills like enough social etiquette and skills like when you're on collabs okay knowing your kind of things networking on your own end and then having a manager then

[1:19:47] supplement and help you really accelerate that and it's like it's a it takes two to tango with that kind of thing you're you're right it's just like sometimes CU I know sometimes people a lot of people who would probably hear

[1:20:01] that would think well maybe I'm not talented maybe I'm not this and not that talented maybe I'm not this and not that and maybe or maybe the problem is that that you don't know what your talents are and sometimes having a manager can

[1:20:15] help show you what those talents are Bingo Bingo and um because there that but here's the thing I have met people who have zero talents believe it or not like they have zero talents is that like an atypical issue is that an anom no

[1:20:32] it's a it's not an anomaly it happens more often than you think I would say it's not exactly the norm but it happens enough that it's not an anomaly it's uncommon but um when I do see those people talent to me is not something

[1:20:46] you're born with it's a set of skills that you spend time working on and um when I see people like that I I take a look at okay what are your possible

[1:20:59] something you're interested in at the very least hobby or just something you've always wanted to do okay so what if it turned out to be watercolor canvas if it turned out to be watercolor canvas painting okay cool um and this is like

[1:21:14] another one of my clients who I consulted not managed managed um with with consultations basically like how I do them it's kind of like a touch and go shorter fee um we we meet periodically

[1:21:29] and I I I do a lot of those assessments and strategizing with you and then meet like periodically two weeks one month three months depends but one of them her three months depends but one of them her name is fairy Sammy and they have a lot

[1:21:45] of talent as an artist and so I was one day just like what so you are very talented as an artist Sammy and what if you were to We Were just kind of like like joking around and I was like what if you were to actually use your

[1:22:00] painting skills and turn and live 2D skills and we combined it together she's like I've never thought of that and I'm like let's try it out and see what happens and it it's been helping her grow like crazy ever since and she she

[1:22:16] grow like crazy ever since and she she turned herself into a r Coco painting a turned herself into a r Coco painting a a CO okay it is really cool and so really goofy and it's literally herself she oil painted it herself and then

[1:22:31] rigged it so I like that so that like you said like that's a more Uncommon issue I saw that um I saw that uh yumo and shahai Yumi I was asking you know like an uncommon thing what happens if you have you ever had a client that has

[1:22:49] come up to you and had a problem where you don't really know how to answer it or you just don't know how to explain it you you premise it with Yi I know where you're going with this cuz that is her I have a lot of frustrations with

[1:23:06] with um with working with that and it's not like I have frustrations with her it's just that every it's okay T you can admit it it's all right it's there's a lot of times I will mess up and I will hit a wall she'll hit a wall and she's

[1:23:23] not the only one but that is where the anomaly does happen because it does come down to audience she is insanely talented Yumi but the problem is is she doesn't have it's an audience mismatch she has a lot of like a lot of the

[1:23:38] creepy simps over over the time that I've my favorite I love I love creepy men she she she has a lot of like really creepy creepy people who are not like quite there and it's like they there's more time that would have to be spent to

[1:23:54] at in the meantime they are just really making things awkward like they'll like people will be in chat will be having a really good conversation then they pop in with something insanely creepy breaking their

[1:24:09] Community guidelines and there's no mods available and suddenly we just have like a whole situation where it's like oh would you look at that chat died and it may or may not come back alive for the next 30 minutes and all of a sudden we

[1:24:23] have a serious and engagement then that happens enough time over time people are just like you know what screw this I'm going to go somewhere else and watch someone else whose Community is actually there who's actually talkative yada yada

[1:24:37] yada and you have this kind of cycle where you have to deal with these kind of situations with these individuals that make up the community and then you have to actually like look into the Community Management side of things and

[1:24:50] so like that's actually a question that so like not only do I get a lot of aspiring managers messaging me but I also get people who are active managers who message me especially for these exact complicated situations because

[1:25:04] these are the kind of situations that are very difficult and challenging and you have to think outside the box and sometimes you're not even going to come up with an answer and you have to just try everything possible and you keep

[1:25:19] trying and trying and through through sheer resilience you might break through someday and our current answer for her is like okay what if we just debuted what if we just had an official debut finally like you've got like

[1:25:32] finally like you've got like 55 average viewers and suddenly you know we're not quite at partner push level you had gall bladder surgery and so I don't know if that took a hit or not but you know what let's just get you all get

[1:25:46] everyone all revved up and we see what happens and maybe that will get her close to partner numbers and then we'll shift gears into a partner push and through that we really get her to partner and Beyond cuz life doesn't end

[1:26:00] at partner and there's there's just really difficult Lial stages with v tubing at so many different ends because like when you're like 10 like 10 15 concurrent viewers or below you are considered like seriously small two like

[1:26:17] there's a a derogative term called to view and a lot of those people are very disregard but there's also a very tight-knit hype community that only sticks to those exact people oh my God that makes so

[1:26:32] much more sense I remember I remember when I got like more than I think 10 viewers and I remember getting a weird DM one day of someone being like you know I you've changed I was like what do

[1:26:46] you mean I've changed like you know ever since You' gotten big you've just been different and I'm like what and they'll be defining quote unquote big as is like oh I have 25 concurrent viewers now and news flash you're still small you still

[1:27:00] got a long ways to go and for me my definition of small doesn't even get definition of small doesn't even get past towards like 125 CCV 100 but some they're like well well why do you call me small but the thing is being small is

[1:27:14] not a bad thing it's not a bad thing it's still real people there's there there's common Trends it's like you're not making quite enough income to really like you know do a lot more than you want to do there's and that's not a

[1:27:28] total rule it's just like a very common thing or and there's different limal stages like once you get past that small vtuber like capital S small vtuber side of things and you go beyond you start get losing that support and then you

[1:27:43] start to try to find new grounds with new friends and if you happen to find new friends and if you happen to find people and and who you Vibe with you can ride Coast you can Coast through a bit if you have the right Community then you

[1:27:58] get to partner in which case you start getting less people supporting you and so once you're on your partner or they get jealous and angry and then they start talking about you and like it it's hard and and you have to have like a tug

[1:28:11] of war with all that and so you're still having a lot more Hills to climb from 75 onward and so once you get past like 125 concurrent viewers and you start having massive peaks of like 500 plus concurrent viewers that's when Gates

[1:28:26] start opening up and the the those who give Clouts will start giving you clout they'll start giving you attention some of the bigger Indies or um being able to collab with different companies and and like sponsors yeah you know but those

[1:28:43] very small dollar and they're not like the biggest brand deals and so calling them quote unquote big isn't exactly accurate because they still have a lot of struggles it's just different stages of different struggles and then once you

[1:28:58] actually get past that 150 kind of Mark and you're going well into the like the 250s 500s that's when you start to get a lot more traction you start to like you still have your struggles don't get me you're wrong but

[1:29:12] struggles don't get me you're wrong but it's like things aren't as difficult as they were before there that is certainly true no no you're right but you still think this whole concept of like struggles is very fascinating and like I

[1:29:27] I appreciate you for sharing like how you deal with like struggling situations because I think a lot of people don't realize um everything that Tesla had just said now imagine like you know you're paying this person all this money

[1:29:41] money to help manage you and everything they suggested to you is not working like you and and and when I say this I mean you're actually taking their advice Tesla told me to do something I just don't do it then like I can't just sit

[1:29:56] there and get mad at her being like well you're not helping me because I didn't let's say she suggested like a bunch of things to me and I and I'm doing it and nothing is working I would start getting frustrated I would start like

[1:30:08] questioning myself mean like okay why am I spending all this money not seeing any results it starts to make you wonder is this like is Tessa actually like helping me is this actually like is this a good investment and so I reached out to those

[1:30:21] about this as well um particularly like I asked them when reasons come up like how do you make it up to clients when things are not going

[1:30:33] up to clients when things are not going um how they're supposed to go and one of them had said to me was that you know they they pretty much sit down have a talk with a talent and say hey we explain the situation we understand um

[1:30:48] explain the situation we understand um and we hope that you can also understand um you know particularly when it comes to like this uh talent to like this uh talent agent um they said like for example if

[1:31:01] they aren't getting you sponsorships like nothing that they have reached out to them they're just not able to really get you like something that you might find worthwhile um in particular and they have agreed they have said it's

[1:31:15] okay for me to disclose this I'm not breaking NDA by saying this um they said that in their contracts they added Clauses that they send out for this specific type of thing for extraneous circumstances because life happens

[1:31:28] sometimes and sometimes like as Tessa had mentioned earlier sometimes like you want to invest in you because you haven't reached whatever like threshold it is that they're looking for and sometimes that makes it really hard to

[1:31:43] go full-time because you're not getting that monetary like stability to be able that's very frustrating it's very frustrating to have someone that you're like a whole year and you haven't gotten like a single sponsor and so they have a

[1:31:59] you feel like this isn't really working out or we feel like we just we can't find anything for you um then it's okay to part ways the other person who had

[1:32:11] to part ways the other person who had responded to this um had said in their response they said first and foremost I would immediately communicate when I'm unable to do something this lets this person delicate to someone else if it's

[1:32:25] urgent but to be quite Frank this hasn't really happened um I think the closest situation of this in a regular scenario is me not being knowledgeable about something but those subjects were not expected of me in the first place still

[1:32:39] try to make time to learn more about it let's say for example um let's say for let's say for example um let's say for example I asked Hessa for advice on um

[1:32:52] what's something that's kind of obscure about how to make better Animal Crossing content I don't know if Tessa has actually played Animal Crossing or knows community of Animal Crossing and like what makes it successful content so

[1:33:05] knowledge about it so what does she have to do she has to now go research the community for Animal Crossing and start really thinking okay what makes this watch this is this actually something suitable for Mari does this make sense

[1:33:20] with her brand her personality what is her twist that I can help her with person was talking about at least that's how I'm interpreting it um they also had said most of the time when we have a disagreement we

[1:33:34] fascinating it's okay to disagree with your manager and like I know it's one thing to not take their advice but you can very much just disagree you know and then talk it out and they said the manager Talent relationship may be there

[1:33:50] but fundamentally we are friends nothing a good apolog and some communication a good apolog and some communication can't fix um perhaps things are like this because of me because you know because they are friends and that makes

[1:34:02] it a little bit easier for them uh to communicate and like kind of talk things communicate and like kind of talk things out but the last thing they said was um they could see themselves if for whatever reason if this had like a lot

[1:34:15] of money at stake where you're being hired to you know help this person's career grow and for whatever reason that's just not happening them finding like a replacement like a manager who can actually like they would

[1:34:30] this person literally said they would go out of their way to find a manager who is more skilled and more suitable to help their client and literally like set them up with that manager and if you're paying someone all this money you are

[1:34:45] literally taking a pay cut to help your client go find some and I can't believe this person said that in that response that is that's that is amazing holy cow thank you so much for sharing that in this little response um I appreciate you

[1:34:59] for sharing that because I don't think many managers would even would ever like doing that not like there's anything wrong with it but that really surpris me to to read that and so Tessa for you for example how would you answer like this

[1:35:15] type of question whenever you would fall short how would you make it up to like like for me for example if there whatever reason you couldn't um I I don't know like what the term would be like falling short like so for me

[1:35:29] be like falling short like so for me when when I find myself falling short um when when I find myself falling short um I usually try to like like they were conversation I usually try to actually

[1:35:41] critically analyze the situation and be like okay what's working what's not okay why is this not working okay so what are the pain points that this person's enduring so is it like okay so they're having trouble having consistency do a

[1:35:54] life extren circumstances like a life issue okay um I understand that sometimes I'm much more flexible with my payments if if there is an issue and like for example like if I messed up on something like if I had to reschedule

[1:36:09] during the extraneous circumstances my health but you know there was only like have another client right now who's going to like uh uh going to different uh places and they have other kind of

[1:36:22] personal things going on and I only have one meeting in the month with them I will adjust my prices for the next month for that kind of individual so that way that I am making up for that lost time and so I will also kind of accommodate

[1:36:38] by being like okay since we can't meet I'm not only going to give you that that that cut for that extra month like a discount on the on the yeah like like a discount and so like I'll be like okay so on top of that give me a list of

[1:36:52] things you want me to work on and I'll update the my notion to to reflect that update the my notion to to reflect that and I'll schedule out time at admin time for myself to to work on that basically kind of like backup backlog homework and

[1:37:07] I'll I'll kind of get on that and even though we're not specifically Meeting those meeting times are very valuable I understand that and it's like talking understand that and it's like talking over text doesn't always clearly convey

[1:37:21] emotion it doesn't convey importance as well true and so that's importance as well true and so that's why I have those meetings uh and so um I have my own way of accommodating people and every manager is going to be

[1:37:35] different some don't even do it and some are very confident in their skills to do are very confident in their skills to do it and kudos to them um and perhaps they it and kudos to them um and perhaps they have a team I have my own assistant I I

[1:37:48] have a team I have my own assistant I I used to have two um that one parted ways because they had Financial needs and so I gave them a recommendation to an agency and that was a direct connection I had and I went ahead and recommended

[1:38:01] I had and I went ahead and recommended them and and here we are now I have trained a new assistant who helps me offload a lot of tasks so I can then refocus my efforts on other clients and so that's another accommodation that I

[1:38:15] so that's another accommodation that I do is I hire help when I need it and so um having a manager and assistant combo is invaluable combo is invaluable and so that is also kind of difficult

[1:38:27] thing because when you're starting out you can usually you can't really afford you can usually you can't really afford a traditional agent or manager model of a traditional agent or manager model of like taking a 15 10 uh 10 to 25% Revenue

[1:38:39] cut because you're not making any kind of money and so having like a volunteer manager of of sorts often is kind of the only thing you can do and hopes and dream dreams and promises and that often

[1:38:55] is a b big red flag kind of situation and so when people do take that it's very difficult to find a good situation out of that it it definitely happens where it is good but often times it it doesn't work out and a lot of resentment

[1:39:10] doesn't work out and a lot of resentment happens and so oh yeah that sucks so for for the most part like that that 15 25% of total revenue could be a massive hit yeah it's not that's a lot of money like I don't think people realize like this

[1:39:25] I don't think people realize like this like people they they think that like it's oh God it's so frustrating when you think about how much money is at stake even if it's like $100 that is a lot of money for some people you know like

[1:39:39] especially if you live paycheck to paycheck right cuz like if you're making paycheck right cuz like if you're making like um let me just give like an average like I I see a lot of clients make about like $1,000 off of like like I try to

[1:39:52] them so let's just say they're making some on patreon some on YouTube ad AdSense some on Twitch payouts and then some on like uh other kind of tips they get and the total is is 1,000 so like 10% of course is going to be 100 and

[1:40:08] 10% of course is going to be 100 and then 15% on the lower end is 150 and so let's also get like 25% that is going to be uh 250 and a a manager kind of has to

[1:40:20] be uh 250 and a a manager kind of has to like evaluate okay how much work am I willing to do for a solid month for $250 that's below minimum wage yeah yeah and that's for one client right that is for a single client and so if you

[1:40:36] multiply that by about four clients that's about $1,000 that's still kind of a side hustle that's still a lot of work too it's a lot of work and it's kind of a side hustle and so trying to get those Logistics all worked out it's it's

[1:40:52] difficult cuz you as a manager trying to start up managing in general you have to kind of evaluate where your needs are because like and evaluate what your clientele is and when you're starting out you don't you're in a very Beggars

[1:41:06] can't be choosers situation but when you do get to manage bigger people somehow that they're not just dealing with like $1,000 like sometimes it's like 5,000 here a th000 there you can handle those lower income clients and

[1:41:21] still take that 15% cut and so it's it's a very difficult position to be in and trying to rely solely on on management it's it's a difficult job and

[1:41:33] for me I had no choice I was in a difficult position myself in life and um I graduated college at the height of covid-19 right and no one was hiring

[1:41:47] nobody was hiring anyone who was who got like a marketing degree I got a digital marketing degree at Arizona State University I'm okay with doxing myself a little bit for that I got an Associates in Communications in

[1:42:01] in Communications in 2017 and trying to and I also had an internship I did content creation before I did podcasting before I did blogging before it's it's really difficult because like you can have those skill

[1:42:14] sets but you know I'm not going to go into the whole weeds of like trying to get a job outside like with like company companies especially with doing marketing it's really comp it's highly competitive and often times you're

[1:42:27] dealing with like internal hires versus just trying to gather your information in their corporate databases and so you're just kind of wasting a lot of time and you know a thousand plus applications in I gave up and I had to

[1:42:41] applications in I gave up and I had to make my own job no that makes sense I'm I I became a talent manager because I had to um I really started getting going had to um I really started getting going um I wanted say Black Friday 2022 even

[1:42:56] though I had uh a lot of other clients touch and go but I really started going with with the management side of things rather than consultation side of things in black on black Friday 2022 real quick can you explain what uh what the

[1:43:10] consultations versus management because I have PE I have seen managers who don't consultations can you just explain that right so the difference is like I we've

[1:43:22] talked extensive ly About Management you know that is a lot of other duties usually including like basically being on call data analyst and content reviewer and also like uh project

[1:43:37] manager um doing agent work if you sign up for that if and emotional support and that's really like all hands on deck and you're you're responding when you can you're you're responding when you can you're kind of on call um and agent work

[1:43:52] you're kind of on call um and agent work is more focused on the um the the brand and brand deals and the Partnerships and and contracts and oftentimes you're going to work with lawyers to create those thing those templates in the first

[1:44:05] there and negotiations um as for negotiations um as for consultations those are um offers for consultations those are um offers for basically sitting people down one to one

[1:44:18] uh and giving like reviewing their vods reviewing their content much like you would with manager but it's not on call it's very like hey your schedule for this time like let's say someone were to um you book me right now for a

[1:44:33] consultation I would then be like okay here's my here's some information I need going to have you work on okay once you're done with that when's When's the availability okay let's schedule a month out okay we we sit down we do a brand

[1:44:48] review and then we tie it up with the marketing strategy and from there that's about 2 hours of consultation and then after that whole onboarding process then after that whole onboarding process then a followup happens typically typically

[1:45:03] where you will have a followup like about two weeks or a month after that just so that you can collect a lot of data to analyze later to see if whatever strategy we're doing is working or not and then um you then pivot if you need

[1:45:21] to or you then move on to the next steps like okay now that this is working here's what you can do from here and that's again very touch and go and that is the effective difference I think what is really sad for me because I've been

[1:45:36] waiting uh I I kind of forgot to respond to the whole um a lot of managers don't know what they're talking about and there's been times where I will consult there's been times where I will consult different male vtubers right and there's

[1:45:50] different male vtubers right and there's like some God not males K I'm kidding there's some there's there's there's some people who give those generic advices and they're not actually helpful then they'll come to me because

[1:46:03] they they were asking around they're like oh you came highly recommended that is a very common response I get and so they'll come to me give me all that I'll go through the whole onboarding process and I'll be I'll usually ask the

[1:46:16] to me because another person didn't work be caught up to speed and one of them said one time they're like oh the person said one time they're like oh the person who I was I was working with last time

[1:46:30] just told me to be like Shoto and I'm like my dude you have the what do they mean by that what they're yeah so it's like be be an e boy be kind

[1:46:42] of more personable and funny and I'm like my dude you have the personality of a cenal grandpa I'm sorry my guy but like you are so mellow so chill in fact you should be like the the um

[1:46:57] Loi syn boy on on YouTube like oh my God that would actually be po okay can we really hope he did that like I hope he's like you know what I'm going to unsh show to you un become this old man I literally that's kind of what I

[1:47:12] did with the like what if you actually unironically went full Grandpa core and unironically went full Grandpa core and you were went like Loi kind of approach you had the headphones on and you had the messy

[1:47:27] hair and the he he talks a little bit like this and he's like oh he talks a little bit like that oh he's got that kind of voice oh hello everyone I hope very good how how are you going to take that

[1:47:41] personality and be like yeah just be like shto it's not going to work out the personalities do not match and so oh G Tu no and like I totally agree with you because like you know and and here's the

[1:47:57] thing again sometimes you know you do try and try and try and nothing works than someone flat out just being like yeah you should just be like this popular Creator because they're popular it doesn't work and see often like I've

[1:48:12] had a lot of um disagreements with a lot of people over this and it's it's a very common notion and it's also why people do come to you to try to get advice it's like um a lot of people are like oh I can be popular if I just do exactly what

[1:48:26] this bigger vtuber has done then they proceed to try to do that and they fail and come up short and it's often because they don't have the personality they don't have the talent they they they specialize in other things they're good

[1:48:42] at other things they have a different personality that they're masking over and I'm going to be honest that's how I feel when people copy me and I like look at their stuff and I'm just like the stuff that I do doesn't match you why

[1:48:55] are you cop like it makes me wonder who who told you what manager told you to copy me well it's often times not even a manager it's just kind of like a popular belief it's like okay this person is a case study they they obviously succeeded

[1:49:08] so therefore there is Merit to it and to an extent that is true but it's like you have to discern who you are versus who you feel like you want to be versus like who you actually can be and then doubling down on that and that's that's

[1:49:25] a personal philosophy thing for me but there there's there's different schools of thoughts among managers and this is actually something that really isn't noticed or talked about but that that is a fact some people really are like hey

[1:49:38] do whatever's popular double down on that and really go hard at it and sometimes you will actually make it most of the time you're not but you know if you can actually really strike that you can you can make it and that is a

[1:49:52] certain philosophy of growth and it can happen and to an extent is kind of it does have its validity but I don't believe in that I I personally believe in the more authentic approach where you are being unironically yourself and

[1:50:07] you're having your branding more revolved around yourself and if you have content that you actually believe in actually love then you're going to do a get burned out as much you're actually going to see rewards for it typically

[1:50:22] you know what and that's exact that's exactly why I try to do what it is I do you know I'm just going to say it I copy people I copy people all the time except the difference no no there's a difference

[1:50:39] difference no no there's a difference when I copy people I do the I do the oh says yoink and twist I was going to say stroke and then I was like no wait let's not say that on YouTube so I the YouTuber way of course

[1:50:53] you know I Inspire when I see something that I really want to like but I don't that I really want to like but I don't copy a one for one I do take like my own come to you saying hey I like what this person's doing what can I do like let's

[1:51:07] talk about what I can do to like not copy this one for one but what can I like you know Inspire from this because I like what's going on here and I think this could fit me you know it's it's a little bit

[1:51:21] different just like yeah no Grandma it's time for your medicine and go to bed no but for real like okay it's I I think we can all agree that managing Is Not What It Seems and it's very hard like a lot of managers are kind of the behind the

[1:51:36] of managers are kind of the behind the scenes that really can um enhance someone's career as it should but you know there's not a lot of light that know there's not a lot of light that gets shined which makes me wonder Tessa

[1:51:48] why did you become a manager I know you said that it's because you had had no choice but why like managing for like vtubers like do you enjoy doing this cuz you you literally with your skills you could very much have joined like an

[1:52:03] agency and like become a talent for like some other company right out of the gate I didn't have uh the necessary experience cuz I was fresh out of I had all this other thing it's not exactly the talent manager um skill set

[1:52:18] exactly the talent manager um skill set and also back then in 2020 there just wasn't n any kind of infrastructure available to accept assistant jobs and available to accept assistant jobs and so I literally was on my own and so I

[1:52:32] had to do what I had to do to make this kind of stuff work and so one of the reasons why I do what I do is because before all this I I used to do anime podcasting I used to do blogging and I used to go to conventions I've been

[1:52:47] watching anime my entire life and so with vtubers it's like oh you're all anime people and you have a fan base that enjoys this kind of real time Slice of Life content and I'm just like oh my God this is a F

[1:53:01] this is amazing and I want to be a part of this and it turns out I'm I I excel at this kind of stuff and I actually feel fulfilled doing this and now that

[1:53:14] feel fulfilled doing this and now that um I'm doing what I do so much I kind of became content with this and this is what I actually focus on rather than any kind of like drama or or anything else I'm I'm very dedicated God I Sor choke

[1:53:28] you when you said Drama Oh god oh well it's just like you could easily involve yourself with stuff but it take it you know having restraint is difficult and building that over time is difficult and so I just kind of bury myself in my job

[1:53:42] and I I have my seven-hour days 5 days a week um and I I bury my head into the week um and I I bury my head into the work and I I love this job so much and I

[1:53:55] I wouldn't know what else to do other than than talent management and vtubers is kind of the best of all worlds with with this and I really believe in the possibilities and I love that one of the things I actually always wanted to do

[1:54:09] was um make sure that people understood that they could do more than just um what's it called just gaming content and I don't mind gaming content at all like there's so it's so fun God I feel like we're GNA have so many hot takes written

[1:54:24] about us because of because you and I both have a certain opinion about gaming really well together we both have very strong opinions about it but that's a conversation for another day it is it is and so that's that's that's that's a big

[1:54:39] thing that drives me is I I do like finding those kind of people that want there's a there's an account I respect called shind dags who reveal sh often yeah Shin he often highlight it's a lot of those kind of people who are willing

[1:54:55] to go above and beyond and um that further inspires me day-to- day but I often like working with that no I can totally understand you know I think that's kind of funny because um the other managers I reached out to they

[1:55:08] when I had asked them why do you manage vtubers like like why like why and one vtubers like like why like why and one of them straight up said like oh you they didn't NE certainly say they got Isa kaid into being a manager but like

[1:55:25] Isa kaid into being a manager but like that's kind of what happened like basically uh they're really good friends with a person who um you know is a very with a person who um you know is a very very successful Creator um and I guess

[1:55:39] friend saying hey would you like to help me with this and um yeah he started off as like being his assistant and kind of like um just really like being like that

[1:55:51] supporter and really helping to get other stuff that's stressful for Content Creations out and people constantly make a jokes saying oh that's his producer producing are two very different jobs but they can definitely blend into each

[1:56:05] was like you know after that exchange and him like you know doing more managing SL producing slash editing like all that stuff he eventually was just kind of like hey you know what while I'm finishing school and stuff and like with

[1:56:19] actually invest into like this person's friend but like I really believe in like what he does and not only do I admire him but just being able to be part of that like team and being able to really

[1:56:34] help things go along is what made him want to become a manager and I really really resonate with that because even though I don't do managing I do though I don't do managing I do production and the be I have worked with

[1:56:47] some very famous streamers I won't tell you which uh which ones they are but I've definitely worked in like conventions where I am the person who controls the stream so everything that you see up on stream I'm the one that

[1:57:01] controls that I'm the one who makes sure that you're getting all the best shots when it's time to cut to the music I making sure that is happening I am the one that's delegating every little element which is a very stressful job

[1:57:14] but I love doing it and I love doing it specifically because those famous streamers who which by the way I never even get to talk to I see them walk up on stage and I'm like oh yeah I'm making this person's entire like livelihood

[1:57:26] right now happening on uh on Twitch this in YouTube this is kind of interesting I really want I I'm not like I would do that anyways I would never I would never that anyways I would never I would never do that but I am part of the production

[1:57:39] I am the behind the scenes The Faceless the maskless the one that wears you know production I'm the one that's the unknown and that you don't care about me you don't think about me but I'm one of the core pieces that puts the entire

[1:57:55] content together and streamers and content creators and companies and content creators and companies and Studios rely on me and my team to make these projects come to life and there's something very fulfilling at seeing all

[1:58:08] the hard work that you and your team puts together to make this content come to life and it's it's really beautiful thing to see like wow I helped make this happen and so the fact that this person who does this managing for their friend

[1:58:23] I really really resonate with you on like this connection and this passion to really want to have this other person become successful because in a way you can kind of vicariously live a little bit of that um success and I think

[1:58:38] know some of these people they won't ever think about you and stuff when you don't normally like think about that stuff but it's still a very fulfilling things behind the scenes I get to see how streamers are off stream and I think

[1:58:54] that's kind of cool I also get to see like um the different technical difficulties that happen and how we have to stream tech to solve that to make sure things are not stressful and going smoothly it's just a very like fun job a

[1:59:07] stressful as it is um the other person who I had reached out to that answered literally said something that I love so much and it's part of the biggest reason why I make a lot of my advice commentary videos and it's

[1:59:21] because they said they said I got dragged into this but but they were kidding they said in all seriousness I started becoming a talent agent because I wanted to help small content smaller content creators

[1:59:34] navigate the somewhat predatory side of content creation when it comes to sponsorships and I do enjoy it especially when I call clients on their Bluffs and tell them to stop lowballing talents which I am so thankful for

[1:59:47] because like I said earlier a lot of us don't know what we're worth and it's so refreshing to have somebody actually stick up for us because when you're a content creator it's a very lonely journey and it can feel like you're

[1:59:59] alone and just sometimes having like at least someone on your side whether that least someone on your side whether that be a manager an agent or a friend um can really make or break the difference of the success of your career because a lot

[2:00:13] of it is mental if you don't have a strong positive like outlook on your career it's going to be very difficult for you to grow because you're not going to want to do it anymore and if you don't want to do it anymore then you're

[2:00:27] not going to do it anymore so yeah I think that in terms of you know managements we've been hyping it up we talked a little bit about like the red flags and stuff I want to get a little bit more

[2:00:40] stuff I want to get a little bit more into that if I was completely you know we never met or whatever and I wanted to go find a go find a manager how could I go out and do that

[2:00:53] to look at besides looking at their portfolio like let's say I take a bet on someone how when will I know eventually like okay this is not working like how long do you know o that is a really good question because um I have to actually

[2:01:10] oh my God that is a really good question because I also have to um ask those exact same questions especially when I'm trying to find new assistants like um like I am on the lookout for a new assistant and I have some people in mind

[2:01:27] assistant and I have some people in mind um but when I go out and look out for current vtuber managers and potential vtuber assistants um trying to actually look for those people is really difficult

[2:01:40] for those people is really difficult there is a manager server but there there are limitations with trying to figure out those internal things figure out those internal things and it's kind of the the risk of hiring

[2:01:53] labor in general like just because they are really good on paper it doesn't are really good on paper it doesn't necessarily translate to either a them actually doing the job in the first place whe for whatever reason or B them

[2:02:06] place whe for whatever reason or B them being a good fit for you and there's been times with my current assistant where um I tried to have him help me with certain clients and I immediately found um compa ability issues and I was

[2:02:24] like okay I need to assess seriously what their strong suits are like you you actually made a really good point Mario of like managers do have to have like kind of like skill points that they have to invest in like having a jack of all

[2:02:37] trades just isn't realistic like for me project management is one thing I invest a lot in but also it's a lot of the creativity yes yes that's my favorite thing about you yes literally like not to cut you off it's just out of all the

[2:02:52] if I could only pick one thing I would pay a buttload of money for it's going to be the creativity specifically because um having if I am stuck if I am

[2:03:05] example right before we about to start this uh podcast I literally right before the call I was telling Tessa like I'm really nervous I don't know how to start like I'm literally panicking right now she's like hold on one second within

[2:03:19] like 1 minute she typed up a little tweet blurb she's like here here's a template make this into your own words and then I changed it to like how I would say it but that that right there here copy my homework but don't do yeah

[2:03:34] that's exactly it that's exactly what it was was yeah yeah that's kind of what it's like and it's like um I'm trying to find a lot of

[2:03:48] assistants who are able to do a lot of the same thing and it's really hard the same thing and it's really hard because you you do have to like for me I have to train people to to get to that and there's a lot of people who want to

[2:04:01] Shadow me and trying to find time to just sit down and do that that is actually really difficult because I'm I'm trying to focus on my current job right now but I also have the needs to expand and the legistics of doing that

[2:04:17] actually are really difficult and it's to the point where I'm I'm actually feeling like like I am my own onep person agency and trying to expand that out starts to actually build those foundations and it's hard does it make

[2:04:29] you like regret it sometimes because of that cuz I saw someone asking like yeah do I regret being a manager and the short answer is no longer answer is um I didn't know that I would be a manager growing up I didn't know like you never

[2:04:45] idea of what you want to do like when you're in college in high school but you never really really know where life takes you and so for me I I don't regret

[2:04:57] being a manager ever in fact it's the best thing that's ever happened to me and when I went my when I met my girlfriend Yumi she has helped me change as a person like overnight and me actually caring about someone has

[2:05:14] given me a lot of drive to really value that and building this business from the that and building this business from the ground up has been really difficult but it because it comes really naturally for me um it's work that I love and

[2:05:29] appreciate and so there is zero regret taking this path and there's times where I I do even get offers to you know join a company but then I I it's hard it's

[2:05:42] really hard you know making the decision between okay do I stay with my talents now or do I you know join a different company and I'm always I'm always it's always such a difficult position but I usually lean towards well I have all

[2:05:55] these amazing people that I work with I have a lot of projects I'm really looking forward to I have zero regrets doing exactly what I'm doing and I value loyalty a lot with um with the people I work with and so I want to see things

[2:06:10] through I want to see them get to where they need to go and if I myself have to improve to to get there then so be it and there was a time just this year that I felt an existential crisis where I felt like I was inadequate that I didn't

[2:06:27] have enough connections and that is another reason why there's supposedly a lot of people trying to get into this industry very fresh but they don't have a lot of connections and there is one very interesting selling point that I do

[2:06:44] see a lot of managers have where they say they have a lot of Industry connections but they don't it's such a very strong promise without a lot of follow through and it's not anyone's fault it's

[2:06:56] just like hey this is my homie who is an artist and that is that's good here's a friends and Family's discount that's actually really good that's actually really nice wow hey hold on so family huh if you want to classify that

[2:07:13] as an industry connection then you're not exactly incorrect because what is the the net difference of someone who's barely starting out and a manager who is barely starting out and they're able to provide you with a cheaper model than

[2:07:26] what's on the market like let's just say the market price of a of a of a decent the market price of a of a of a decent quality model is about $2,000 1,000 for art 1,000 for rigging and the friends and family discount gets you down to 750

[2:07:40] and family discount gets you down to 750 750 right or like 500 500 and so the total that's a 50% discount for a full model that's actually really good you can then spend those that thousand elsewhere like with uh Graphics you can

[2:07:54] get it with um just other kind of assets uh Motion Graphics and promotion that and then they can try to negotiate from there and build from the ground up um so

[2:08:06] there is validity if you do give some people a chance um but you then you then go back to the whole thing of like do you take that risk and I'm not those

[2:08:18] people I can't say whether or not you are taking a good risk or not you have are taking a good risk or not you have to there there is like now with ven there there is reviews and you can put up testimonials and I do have my

[2:08:31] testimonials up on my vun and when I do have a website I can also provide uh you know when I do put that up I'm also going to probably provide okay here's the statistics of okay here's the before scene here's the after scene here's how

[2:08:45] they grew um here's how they here and I'll just have like a case study page per per client who's willing it's like an advanced testimonial kind of thing like that is something that can help build trust and maybe that's something I

[2:08:58] need to do to rise to the occasion to help with a lot of that broken trust over time and one of the situations we were talking about that prompted all this in the first place was a manager named evil bunny and the tldr of that is

[2:09:12] named evil bunny and the tldr of that is she basically did a lot of the whole um she basically did a lot of the whole um agent work she was more of an agent and she she didn't do a whole lot Beyond agent work and whatever she did was very

[2:09:28] agent work and whatever she did was very minimal at best and so when she did do some work people were happy for whatever they got but it came with a lot of they got but it came with a lot of delays and she started asking people for

[2:09:42] loans that's a massive red flag you want to talk about red flags you got one to talk about red flags you got one really big one right there and typically you don't ask ask your clients for loans instead you figure your [ __ ] out and if

[2:09:56] you if you don't have the business acument to be like okay I'm going to Pivot myself and maybe I need to have a quick sale and hire a temporary assistant to help me with the with the workload or I just kind of figure just

[2:10:08] figure something out to make ends meet or like I go have a side gig or I don't quit my day job and I I do no literally like don't quit your J job for this guys like don't like I still look at mine you know no like especially starting out cuz

[2:10:23] you have to understand like with inflation and everything like trying to do this full-time is is unsustainable yeah it's it's volatile it's very volatile and trying to get to the point where you are living off of

[2:10:37] this fulltime with that full-time income because most people have like a threshold of okay what is your ideal outcome for this what what what do you need to actually go full-time and a lot of people say about 2,000 a month news

[2:10:51] flash that's $24,000 you're you're in the federal property limit so trying to be like okay what if I actually made $36,000 well guess what that's still a lot of money per month and you're talking about trying to get uh payouts

[2:11:05] talking about trying to get uh payouts on Twitch uh payouts on YouTube patreon and perhaps you do like only fans or fley and perhaps you even do more things like selling assets and you have a side hustle and trying to even scratch beyond

[2:11:20] the federal po y limits with your with your yearly income it's really difficult to justify and so there's a lot of stress that comes with that and so trying to find a manager and trying to find red flags there's not an easy

[2:11:34] answer and that makes sense you have to you have to take those risks and sometimes it isn't always going to work out and usually what I find with people for me who part ways it's usually because of a financial situation and

[2:11:47] being able to afford a manager whether or not I negotiate in a 10 15 or 25% cut or not I negotiate in a 10 15 or 25% cut of Revenue or I negotiate in okay maybe I give you a discount for like x amount of months and even then it can be too

[2:12:03] much and people need to have their time to recover and that's kind of the truth as as a manager you're going to have a lot of people who come and go because life happens and you can't get mad at your your talents and you can't talk bad

[2:12:18] seen those kind of cases where managers are are not talking very well about are are not talking very well about their other clients and it's it's a lot of drama that's not necessary and it's like um you know being able being able

[2:12:36] to um try to identify red flags is is as simple as like you know it when you see it when you when you feel that gut instinct of like oh this is this something's off there's a good chance

[2:12:49] there that there's something off and like for for me at any given time I just that's why for me personally for me and this is actually a debatable point um amongst my peers about like how do you pay your structure and in the manager

[2:13:05] pay your structure and in the manager Discord that that I in um there is there was an active discussion about that and it's not so clear-cut as people think um talking about with handling smaller vtubers by and large because people they

[2:13:20] if you have a a project that you need help with you should be able to hire help for it um and it's not like if you're just like a quote unquote two viewer perhaps you have a really big ambitious debut project idea and you so

[2:13:35] you so happen to have the means to pay for it then you should be able to pay for that and have someone help you with the project and if you're willing to put in that much money for whatever reason and whatever background you have it it's

[2:13:50] all Case by case basis and it's it's it's complicated but it's like this is stream for me to link out to a lot of aspiring managers because yes please do

[2:14:02] yeah cuz I was going to say like what you just said is so right yeah you're so right you know actually I have a quote for all of you I think you would like I I you definitely know this quote there's no way you don't

[2:14:16] um it's called the six degrees of separation and there's this notion of that um there are you you yourself as a um there are you you yourself as a person are about six people or fewer

[2:14:31] connect social connections away from where you want to be in life it's kind of like a friend of a friend kind of thing where sometimes you know you as know whatever like that's such a weird term but like you as a small little tiny

[2:14:47] streamer are just six connections away from from becoming one of the biggest most successful streamers and sometimes finding a manager or an agent or having

[2:14:59] finding a manager or an agent or having a consultant could very well be that first degree of separation because through them you can then be connected through them you can then be connected and meet other

[2:15:14] it's so tricky cuz it's like um like I'm saying like not everyone has those connections that that are mentioned and it's like when you do figure out someone it's like when you do figure out someone who does things do change and like but

[2:15:29] risk you know you have to talk to people because like with with like any because one of the things that is actually very controversial in in V tubing especially Indie the Indie scene

[2:15:43] is understanding that you're actually an entrepreneur yes why is that so hot what starting from nothing as an entrepreneur is really difficult you have no

[2:16:02] do people really not know that well no it's it's it's because it can suck out a lot of the fun and there's there's a truth to that and thinking of it as a truth to that and thinking of it as a hobby is is a good thing and I believe

[2:16:16] that a lot of people have trouble thinking of this as a business because they don't want to they they don't want to think about that too much and I don't blame them I I don't because if it works it works if it doesn't then you're just

[2:16:29] going to be stressing way more than you should over things you can't exactly control and a lot of it takes a lot of time so one of the things about having

[2:16:41] time so one of the things about having this as a um as a job kind of like its own job is understanding that you're not always going to have everything you need right away and so it's going to take time to get where you need to go and

[2:16:58] that applies to both vtubers themselves and managers and I saw something very early on it's like how do I get a manager after hearing like hey you should get a manager I just want to clarify I I don't know if we're

[2:17:12] contradicting ourselves or not but I I want to make it very clear if you're like starting out I would not recommend a manager unless you have really big plans and you have the the means to do it and the capital and like know what

[2:17:25] you're doing yeah cuz like if you have the mean that like the capital which is the means to do it then you have a lot of risk that you're willing to partake with and a lot of your time is amongst all of

[2:17:40] that too you're risking your time every single day and your mental health and so at some point it can work but it's not easy it's it's not and so if you

[2:17:53] have a growth mindset with this where you're like okay things didn't work out today what can I do better what can I do something about this that always will be the best thing you can do manager or not and in my opinion if you're starting out

[2:18:09] trying to see in the first place whether or not you need a man you don't need a manager if you just barely started streaming you should probably figure out whether or not you like streaming at all and maybe you like making videos instead

[2:18:22] how how would you know unless you tried it it's always going to be an automatic know if you don't try like and and that's why you know that's why I've been doing this for seven years and I just started working with Tessa like a couple

[2:18:36] started working with Tessa like a couple of months ago 7 years and I just finally decided okay you know what I think I want to have a manager I I I have Justified that the work that I have on my plate I need to offload some of that

[2:18:52] I need assistance like I need help like I need someone who can be just as creatively invested into my channel and like my content as I am and like that like my content as I am and like that took a lot of self-discovery and I am

[2:19:06] one of those individ the only thing I will ever ever praise myself for is that I do have a growth mindset I will take whatever criticism whatever like things that happen and I will try to think what is it that I can improve and it's a very

[2:19:21] different perspective on things like it's a very different mindset because it's a difficult thing it's difficult because it's it's so easy to try to to try to be like oh nothing is going my way and the world hates me and my sucks

[2:19:38] all these people I'm trying to collab with they they're Gatekeepers they're this that and the other and perhaps perhaps that's actually true I'm not going to discredit that and perhaps it's true because black there are these

[2:19:50] blacklisting where you know you look funny you're you're weird people think you're weird that [ __ ] happens that that stuff happens and your fault there is nothing you can do about that and it's really unfortunate but I guarantee that

[2:20:06] most of the time that's not the case especially if you don't know anyone and you have literally like two views you're not you don't really have an audience to even talk to and so there's often times like you just shut down during the

[2:20:19] stream and you're not really entertaining people you're you're just kind of sitting there quietly on stream because you aren't really um people aren't really invested enough to watch your streams quite yet and there is a

[2:20:33] your streams quite yet and there is a skill curve to this yes that's true and like you know I guess for one final followup and stuff we've talked a lot know should you get a manager and how's what's the way to go about it but like

[2:20:46] what about you know for the people who want to become a manager because it's really hard to find managers I had to find you through a viral tweet controversial or not that's how I found you but when I remember when I tried

[2:21:00] looking for managers it's hard to find because some people don't make themselves known to be a manager and like you know putting Vu manager in your people so like what if you are an aspiring manager what do you what you

[2:21:14] like do you have any advice for for those types of people on how to find clients like what can they do um so it's the current situation is actually really difficult because um

[2:21:28] actually really difficult because um right now it's it's it's often times like a lot of the good managers already work for a company right yeah or they they have an independent practice like I am and they're quite busy no slots

[2:21:41] available and then you're like okay what do I do now and you can then try to search for something then you have that dilemma from before of like is this worth the risk or not we answered that in detail but like um trying to find

[2:21:55] managers right now is really difficult and some of them are just Bots just straight up Bots and it's like um if you search for for like vtuber manager or search for for like vtuber manager or talent manager or you go to um most of

[2:22:11] find outside of like just straight up searching it's going to be through word and mouth most likely yeah you got talk to people and ask you do have to talk to people but often times that alone is really difficult and

[2:22:26] going to ask a friend or their significant other and not only that people don't share it difficult like no they they don't share it but and that really does come down to like um

[2:22:39] advertising themselves and the lack of advertising themselves and the lack of advertising themselves or lack of ability to pierce themselves or lack of ability to pierce their own um um

[2:22:51] lack of following if you will so like yeah yeah and if you notice a lot of CEOs and managers they they don't really have big big um social media profiles

[2:23:03] and a lot of them like it that way because they're able to express their opinions or showcase different things to very specific people and if and that's just kind of what happens eventually in the social media space with with

[2:23:18] marketing space is a lot of people get really burned out a lot of professionals get really burned out from working with social media and they want to kind of resign to very specific people rather than a lot of people because I totally

[2:23:32] get they want to be able to be more specific with who they talk to and specific with who they talk to and and their networks tend to be a lot smaller but it's more specific and more concise yeah so trying to find those

[2:23:48] concise yeah so trying to find those people is just like finding any other connections with networking in general it's really it really does to are you separation kind of stuff that's social in a nutshell is like you have

[2:24:03] these web of connections and do you happen to know someone in your immediate bubble that actually knows someone who's willing to do a thing and if you're in

[2:24:16] luck with that then maybe they do providing that you ask a friend and they actually share with you I remember when I first became a vtuber and I like asked a couple of other creators I thought I was cool with I was like so where did

[2:24:28] you find your manager and they just like straight up did not want to tell me like they it's as as if they were afraid I was going to steal their manager when genuinely I was struggling and I was like I need direction like I'm asking

[2:24:41] like for help that is yeah that is another issue is like managers are very another issue is like managers are very Val good managers are very very valuable Val good managers are very very valuable resource because a good manager will be

[2:24:56] able to make a substantial difference in some sort of way that is worth a lot of money and time and emotional investment and if you're willing to to actually go

[2:25:08] through with it and stick with stick by each other the whole two-way street each other the whole two-way street thing then you've got yourself someone thing then you've got yourself someone that you kind of want no one to see and

[2:25:20] and that often is very difficult I'm fortunate that I have a lot of clients who are kind of blabber Mouse and they like talking about me because they're personally I disagree with like trying to gatekeep your manager like that's my

[2:25:34] own personal take like I love talking about you I love bringing you up I'm not saying it's like uh my opinion or anything it's an observation that I have it's like um I it's like there is that natural

[2:25:48] have where um it's it's kind of like um that feeling you have when you have like an indie band that you really really like

[2:26:00] and it kind of or like that show that no one really those hidden gems of like shows bands whatever that you really really like that you don't want anyone else to know about because it feels very personal to you and it it's kind of like

[2:26:15] yours and it's it's something that you value very highly and if other people have have access to that Hidden Gem then it's not a Hidden Gem anymore and so and

[2:26:27] it's not a Hidden Gem anymore and so and so um often times it it's difficult to say why a lot of managers don't actively advertise themselves or you know go about a lot of things and there's I don't want to speculate

[2:26:43] too much but there is there is definitely like a pressure to not seem too clout chasy with the a lot of this stuff because if you want to expand out your your business as a manager trying to find yourself in a position of like

[2:26:59] okay I have to take on more clients but I am feeling overworked and so I want to keep my workload down so I have a a strong work life balance and trying to maintain that is so difficult it is so so difficult and if you don't maintain

[2:27:14] that you're screwed you're you're screwed you're going to get burned out I got I've been burned out myself but I don't regret doing it I don't regret being a manager if anything what I do regret is not learning how to do work

[2:27:28] life balance a lot better and sometimes it was necessary to overwork myself and try to juggle a lot because of situations that I've had in the past but it's not something I would actively recommend it's it's you know you do what

[2:27:43] you got to do but you have to do things within your means you know I think just kind of have that takeaway of work life of have that takeaway of work life balance is so important it's it's

[2:27:58] lessons you can have even if you're not a content creator just being able to separate work from pleasure and having an actual time for yourself and perfect

[2:28:10] example there has been some times where Tessa has told me hey I think you've the last time you've like had anything fun to do like just just checking up on me it's not like I don't know how she figures this out about me like I I don't

[2:28:22] figures it out that I've been like you know doing that ADHD hyperfocus thing last time you've done anything like fun in a while and I was like wow it has you know I just want to remind you it's okay to take like a few hours off or

[2:28:37] something for the night you know go have some fun literally sometimes she just won't even answer me because she doesn't want to like have me keep working so want Mario to go hang out and do something fun cuz that's what I'll do

[2:28:49] I'll eventually forget and be like okay Cam I'm going to do something else now there is a method I'm going to admit there is a method to the madness where to me and i' be like I actually have other things to do myself like on my day

[2:29:03] off and I could indulge in that but I would bre breaking my own work life balance and my girlfriend Yumi does actually keep me accountable on that or tries to yeah and that's good though I'm not I'm not always the best with it but

[2:29:16] not I'm not always the best with it but um I I try I I I at least try and so I have to then be like okay if I have to do this you also have to do this because this is an objectively good thing for you to do you should you should be able

[2:29:31] to have your scheduled days off because I do have clients and I have seen a lot of streamers be like you know what I'm going to stream every single day for like seven hours I wouldn't know anything about

[2:29:50] that anyways as you I'll I'll let you finish I'll let you finish oh I let you finish good Lord so it's like

[2:30:02] you it's always a struggle you know cuz you want to you want you feel guilty because it's like if I take a day off from streaming then everyone's going to move on and forget about me right there's there's always that kind of

[2:30:15] pressure and I don't blame you it it it's it's always a struggle um but you have to be able to trust your audience to come back and you also don't own your audience that's also been a very controversial thing and it's also kind

[2:30:31] of a a pitfall I see with a lot of creators is they they become very scared and that's that's the motivation for that is fear of of losing relevancy of of not having their Their audience come back if they take a break and the thing

[2:30:48] is is like people have a good BS detector and they can tell when you're detector and they can tell when you're not feeling as good and if you don't do not feeling as good and if you don't do that for yourself then you're going to

[2:31:01] lose people over time and a lot of managers who try to going to listen and it it's it's kind of a

[2:31:13] struggle and you have to that's another thing that is that is a really good Hallmark of a manager is being willing to know when to say no when to be to know when to say no when to be assertive with your clients and you

[2:31:28] can't always hold your client's hand you have to be Stern and tough with them sometimes you have to give Tough Love sometimes and you have to be willing to tell your client it doesn't matter how big or

[2:31:40] small they are you have to be willing to tell them like hey what you've been tell them like hey what you've been doing is not okay or be like okay what how you've been treating yourself is not okay okay or like hey I

[2:31:54] from the GetGo it's like you have to be willing to take a stance with with your with your clients and put your foot down but you also have to be willing to listen and there's a lot of quote unquote

[2:32:11] people who have been called quote unquote bad managers and that's that's the key contention is whether or not they listen because they'll often have the kind of top- down approach where they're prescribing a strategy

[2:32:23] prescribing a branding like the whole hey just be like Shoto be like X popular hey just be like Shoto be like X popular vtuber and there's not enough listening going on there and that's that's just a critique and I am not here to tell

[2:32:36] people how to do their business but it is something I myself have to deal with when it comes to um working with clients with working with people who have degraded trust with managers over time and that

[2:32:51] and that isn't a criticism on your character if if this does apply to anyone it's not a critique on your character it's just we have a job to do we have people that we're trying to help we need to do the

[2:33:08] best that we can to help these people and I believe that through active listening you can you can accom you can best accomplish that and if you don't do that you enough your clients are not going to feel as valued and they might

[2:33:24] going to feel as valued and they might not come back and I've seen different not come back and I've seen different managers spiral out and not have the correct uh output that they want the ideal output for like having clients and

[2:33:38] maintaining their business and I don't know I like I don't know but I I think that asking for feedback on how you can do better is always going to be really really important and you're not perfect you may be an expert on something right

[2:33:56] you may be an expert on something right but even the biggest experts need to understand humility and understand hey I could be wrong about this I my way may

[2:34:08] not actually work and if you do realize that and you have the self-awareness to realize that you have an opportunity to actually improve and better help your actually improve and better help your clients and

[2:34:21] a lot of people like if you're if you're like you know like the evil bunny situation they're not there to do their job they're there for a potential get-rich quick scheme they're there to do a scam and you are not the priority

[2:34:35] do a scam and you are not the priority you're an ATM and and a lot of streamers do actually see their Their audience in the same way and yeah I wouldn't know anything about that right guys I'm just I'm kidding I'm

[2:34:51] kidding I'm kidding but there there are there are vtubers who get called out for that kind of thing and managers are no different they're no they're they're not above doing a lot of those same pitfalls and

[2:35:07] manager as much as a lot of clients want to say that for me that that I'm doing an amazing job I I have my shortcomings I I I can certainly improve on a lot of

[2:35:19] things and I'm always growing and my hope at the end of the day is that I'm able to like I have these these to like I have these these responsibilities these duties that I I

[2:35:33] agree to and my hope is that I'm at least doing the best I can to fulfill those things that were agreed upon via a contract that I wrote up I am contract contract that I wrote up I am contract I'm contractually obliged to obligated

[2:35:47] to fulfill my duties and I take that very seriously and if I fall short I fall short and I admit to my mistakes I try to improve and I accommodate as a try to improve and I accommodate as a result and that's the best that I anyone

[2:36:03] could do and it is a big investment it's a big risk because uh like hiring a manager hiring an an agent doing anything and trying to part with a lot of your money consistently it's it's a big ask it's a

[2:36:18] consistently it's it's a big ask it's a big risk and and I think it's it's understated just how important a lot of it is because I see a lot of I've seen a lot of comments on Twitter of like oh why do you need a manager if all you

[2:36:30] have to do is just stream why do you need a manager if emailing is just so need a manager if emailing is just so easy well it's okay then do it do it people do they do end up doing that but they

[2:36:44] all come up short and it's it's putting on a lot of hats and it's not easy and if you have the means to delegate tasks to a manager or an agent or perhaps both

[2:36:58] like in mari's case you are in a much more fortunate position than a lot of more fortunate position than a lot of other people there having a manager is a that's the cold hard truth if you're able to afford a manager then you're

[2:37:14] doing a lot better financially than a lot of other people for whatever reason and if you're willing to take that risk then you're willing that risk and that goes that that the same thing that you can say about any business this is your

[2:37:30] ATM here's your withdrawal amount doing business costs money of doing no you're you're so right I also doing no you're you're so right I also noticed um I noticed that you have been

[2:37:44] noticed um I noticed that you have been giving so much valuable information that giving so much valuable information that my Discord cannot handle how amazing your like your advice has been because I'm I'm noticing that your um you're you

[2:37:57] will do that weird thing where it's like you start cutting out it's starting to do that now and I I think it's because I think I think you giving too much value

[2:38:09] right now that literally you are being censored right now and I I I would love I don't know if discord's going on loud you to keep talking no it's it's

[2:38:21] probably like an audio um driver issue but um I I if I missed out anything I'm willing to answer but um that that is the that's

[2:38:33] the clearcut thing at the end of the day it's a two-way street it's a fluid it's a two-way street it's a fluid process and there's risks on both ends and just being willing to listen as a manager being willing to grow and accept

[2:38:47] feedback ask for feedback and being willing to humble yourself is ultimately at the end of the day what's really necessary to grow and to actually do your job as a manager yeah yeah you're right I guess with that being said Tessa

[2:39:03] if people you know I I don't know if you have any more of like your own managing have any more of like your own managing or consultation slots open or um how any like final like thoughts you'd like to let people know about

[2:39:18] to let people know about yourself um um so the best way to reach me right now is through Twitter um you'll find me on Twitter as Tessa VT I have no management slots open currently but I do accept consultations

[2:39:36] whenever um even though like the expectation time for that may be about like a month or two out because of me focusing on other important events like debuts like is a very popular debut

[2:39:50] month so I'm more focusing on that right now and with Mari here I'm trying to now and with Mari here I'm trying to work on other things and so to that's why I limit my slots is so that I don't overwork myself and so um I am accepting

[2:40:04] consultations but there are a lot of other very valuable people out there and again like I said um I'm not the highest priority you need to focus on like if

[2:40:16] you're like starting out don't worry about getting a manager you're not about getting a manager you're not missing out on a whole lot and you need to focus on your priorities you need to figure out more about yourself focus on

[2:40:29] what your priorities actually are figure out what it is you actually want to do try it out a bit and then maybe consider finding a manager or a consultant that would be my biggest advice for for for people with like a lot of people I

[2:40:44] handle because I I don't like going on autopilot a whole lot anymore um and this is me being completely transparent and honest I I always like money but like I I think the best bang for your buck and use of your time is if

[2:41:00] you've already tried stuff and you want help getting specifics on how to execute Stuff how to actually improve and you need a very specific on hands kind of

[2:41:12] approach then yeah get someone like me or someone else um to to take a very or someone else um to to take a very close look at it and to um help you improve very specifically the more specific you are and the more stuff you

[2:41:26] have coming into a consultation or or management with anyone the better time you're going to have and the more work that you put in the more work your manager can also put in in in turn it's it's a team effort and so that that's

[2:41:41] also just some advice for you know potentially red flags but also green flags is if you yourself are putting putting in the effort as well I liked that yeah I wow Tessa thank thank you so much for talking with us today and kind

[2:41:56] much for talking with us today and kind of like really expanding on just the spectrum of just talent management and even Consulting advising like even like agents stuff like thank you for Shifting the perspective at least for me on how

[2:42:11] hire you for this stuff but I never really like knew all of that stuff that really like knew all of that stuff that like goes into the behind the scenes and

[2:42:23] who I reached out to that got back to me like thank you so much for responding because it really opened up my perspective just how much all of you do for for people like me who are really trying to become like a full-time

[2:42:37] Creator who really want to like have my own brand and really like make something and I I'm just very appreciative of all of the people who put their Heart and souls and believing into creators like me in the fact that like one day like we

[2:42:53] will become successful as long as we keep trying keep trying different things looking back at the data and see if it if it works if it doesn't work trying didn't work if it did work figure out why it worked and continued going on

[2:43:06] from there and like yeah I I really appreciate you know you taking time out for this episode to only be an hour and a half but when you have two neurod Divergence on uh anything together sometimes things you know we go by my

[2:43:21] time in the dream realm so with that being said Tessa um I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today and yeah like thank you so much for everything I I guess um if You' like to say any any last final words you're

[2:43:35] more than welcome to if not then um yeah we can head out you know we finished our drinks they're cold you know of course of course um someone uh someone's asking if I'm going to be coming back for another episode I don't I I have no

[2:43:50] for another episode I don't I I have no idea but um I was happy to help represent vtuber managers at least the the best of what we C what we could be um and give a better insight and perspective in all this and with with

[2:44:05] mari's podcast here she's aiming with this podcast my virtual life to be able this podcast my virtual life to be able to give you guys insight into the back to give you guys insight into the back end of content creation and V tubing and

[2:44:18] the things that people don't normally talk about online and she has more going to help her plan those things um if you guys have any requests for topics

[2:44:30] and guests please let us know and you know how to reach Mari she has a Discord so please give feedback and that is always appreciated for everything that she does if you give feedback she listens that is a very valuable thing

[2:44:45] and I always appreciate working with Mari and y'all don't know me very well look at everything and so one thing I have to say is thank you for being so

[2:44:57] amazing to Mari and being so supportive of her brand transition and I want to encourage you to continue supporting her no matter what and I think there I think

[2:45:09] there's big things coming for for everyone and so I hope you look forward to a lot more announcements from her yes there are big things coming thank you up with that everyone remember as I've always said before everything reminds

[2:45:24] always said before everything reminds you of something bye

[2:45:42] [Music] everyone my life in the night no anxiety and made with the guy I just with the guy I just a in the night no

[2:46:05] [Music] [Applause]

[2:46:26] IE cuz I was born in the90s but I do what I like and I do

[2:46:39] [Applause] [Music] [Music] Bor