House of the Dragon Season 3 Premiere REVIEW - Was it Good?

[00:20] Let's rewind. Rewind.

[00:26] >> Welcome back, Screen Crush. I'm Ryan

[00:28] Ary, and today we are going to talk

[00:29] about House of the Dragon season 3,

[00:30] episode 1. Did it work? I know a lot of

[00:32] people didn't necessarily like season 2.

[00:34] Got my thoughts on that that we're going

[00:36] to get to in just in just a second. But

[00:38] you got to admit, we had an enormous

[00:40] battle here. A lot of complaints about

[00:42] season two where there weren't enough

[00:43] big battles, and this was the biggest

[00:45] naval battle in Game of Thrones history.

[00:47] And of course, spoiler warnings are

[00:49] ahead for House of the Dragons season 3,

[00:51] episode 1. So, we don't want to mince

[00:53] words or waste time.

[00:58] So, let's bring on our guest. First of

[01:00] all, you know him as the intern we fire

[01:03] at the end of every video, Mr. Cameron

[01:05] Casy. What's going on, Cam? Hey Ryan,

[01:07] how we doing? House of the Dragon

[01:09] season.

[01:10] >> There we Yeah, good so far. I've only

[01:12] seen the one episode, but we'll talk

[01:13] about that in a second. And of course,

[01:15] the writer of our House of the Dragon

[01:16] Easter egg breakdowns, Miss Harriet

[01:18] Lingo, right? Hello, Harriet. How are

[01:19] you

[01:20] >> doing? Really good. [laughter] Happy to

[01:22] have back.

[01:25] >> We're Man, your breakdown was great. And

[01:27] you we have a video coming out like

[01:28] right after this video where you break

[01:30] down all the costumes of Game of

[01:31] Thrones. It's one of my favorite videos

[01:33] we've ever done. So, I can't wait for

[01:35] you guys to see that. And of course, a

[01:36] regular here on the show. You know him

[01:38] as the guy who's always on hold, Mr.

[01:40] Alex. Alex, do you have a second? How

[01:42] long are you on hold for?

[01:42] >> Uh, yeah. No, I'm actually, it's weird.

[01:44] I'm on hold with my mom. We had a really

[01:46] good conversation by the fireplace last

[01:48] night. I thought it went great, but I

[01:50] guess not. And now I'm just waiting for

[01:53] it.

[01:53] >> Oh, no.

[01:54] >> Too much.

[01:56] >> No, it's a little too soon.

[01:58] >> All right. I can't wait to get to that

[01:59] moment. I want to apologize to

[02:00] everybody. We had to move it from 2 to

[02:02] 245. Uh, but I forgot to change it. So,

[02:05] a lot of people are waiting. Sorry about

[02:07] that. And we already do have one super

[02:09] chat from Phil Rumba from Down Under,

[02:11] which I'm going to address right now

[02:12] because he's been waiting for 45

[02:13] minutes. That naval battle was

[02:15] spectacular, he says, for eight

[02:17] Australian dollars. Tense, brutal, and

[02:19] beautifully shot. And the death at the

[02:21] end hit hard. Outstanding television.

[02:22] How's Doug? Doug is great. And as a

[02:25] reminder, guys, super chats are

[02:26] encouraged, but not required. So, I want

[02:28] to get everybody's thoughts on the

[02:29] episode. Then a little bit later in the

[02:31] video, I want to talk about where this

[02:33] episode and this show is differing from

[02:35] the books and whether or not that's a

[02:36] good thing. So, mild spoiler for the

[02:38] books ahead as well. Cameron, what did

[02:40] you think of this episode?

[02:42] >> Um, I've kind of resigned to um House of

[02:45] the Dragon being just sort of like the

[02:48] better episodes of late Game of Thrones.

[02:50] I think the smaller things that I love

[02:52] with the characters and the more nuanced

[02:55] elements that made Throne so exciting

[02:57] for me and that make me love a lot of

[03:00] Night of the Seven Kingdoms. We're we're

[03:02] kind of past that. I don't think we're

[03:03] getting back to that in House of the

[03:05] Dragon. The thing that makes House the

[03:06] Dragon mustwatch for me is the

[03:09] performers, the sets and costumes, and

[03:12] the spectacle. So, uh, a lot of the

[03:14] story beats and a lot of the choices

[03:15] that are being made with the story and

[03:19] the characters are not necessarily for

[03:20] me, but I mean it the casting director

[03:23] for the Game of Thrones universe is just

[03:25] unbelievable because these performers

[03:27] are so arresting. I could be watching a

[03:29] scene and thinking about how upset I am

[03:31] about the writing, but be so entranced

[03:34] by what these performers are able to do

[03:35] with it. It's just it's remarkable. But

[03:38] I think of this as like comparable to

[03:40] Battle of the Bastards where I'm

[03:42] watching this happen on screen and I'm

[03:44] like, "Wow, this isn't the type of thing

[03:46] you get to see on TV. As a matter of

[03:48] fact, if you saw this in a huge movie,

[03:50] this would be considered an

[03:51] extraordinary giant setpiece in this big

[03:54] hundred million dollar movie. But, you

[03:56] know, don't think too hard about the

[03:58] nitty-gritty elements. You know, that's

[04:00] not what this is. Okay. All right. Watch

[04:02] the Seven Kingdoms.

[04:04] >> Well, I want to get to the nitty-gritty

[04:05] elements in just a second, so hang on to

[04:07] that. Harry, what did you think of the

[04:08] episode?

[04:08] >> Broadstrokes.

[04:10] >> I mean, I loved it. Um, I'm a huge House

[04:12] of the Dragon fan, and I just uh I want

[04:16] them to keep on doing what they've been

[04:17] doing. Uh, I was a little afraid uh at

[04:22] after the reception of season 2, which I

[04:23] personally loved. I know it wasn't for

[04:25] everybody. Um, but I was worried that

[04:27] they would sort of try to change

[04:30] direction in season 3 because of the

[04:32] fact that some people didn't like it.

[04:34] And I'm pleased that at least so far it

[04:36] seems like they're staying the course,

[04:38] which I have enjoyed and want them to

[04:40] keep doing. [laughter]

[04:42] >> Yeah. And um, well, I want to hear from

[04:43] Alex first and I've got a follow-up to

[04:45] both you and Cameron. Alex, what were

[04:46] your thoughts on the episode? Yeah, I

[04:48] think I share a lot of the thoughts of

[04:49] the other folks here in that I actually

[04:52] also like season 2. The thing that

[04:54] really pops to me on the show is like

[04:58] Cameron was saying, the conversations

[04:59] between the characters, the ones that I

[05:01] really care about, the thing that's

[05:02] difficult about this show versus Game of

[05:05] Thrones for me sometimes is Game of

[05:07] Thrones, you basically fell in love or

[05:10] absolute hate with almost everybody

[05:12] instantly. like they just had this

[05:14] special skill with the show of bringing

[05:16] on a character like oh that's the worst

[05:17] villain I've ever seen in my life or oh

[05:20] that person is doing kind of

[05:21] reprehensible things but I love them at

[05:23] the same time and house of the dragon

[05:25] has sometimes struggled with that I

[05:27] think other than say Allison Rea who are

[05:31] phenomenal across the board really our

[05:33] point of view characters the ones that

[05:34] we hook into or I'll speak for myself at

[05:37] least that's how I feel about it but my

[05:39] difficulty with this premiere was it

[05:41] focused mostly on a lot of the

[05:43] characters that I have not hooked into

[05:45] or I have to think for a second, wait,

[05:47] which sister is that? What's going on

[05:49] here? Which dragon is happening? And I'm

[05:52] not I'm not as into the spectacle to be

[05:55] honest. Like you can have these big

[05:57] battle scenes. And obviously they're

[05:59] thrilling and enjoyable and well done,

[06:01] but the smaller scenes in this episode

[06:04] really are the ones that pop in to me.

[06:06] just mentioned two very specifics and

[06:08] I'm sure we'll talk more about them

[06:09] later, but the fireplace scene and the

[06:12] scene of Rea being locked in her room,

[06:15] those were two real stands out of the

[06:17] episode because you got to see these

[06:19] actors acting. And not to go too far a

[06:22] field, but uh Allan Septimal, great TV

[06:25] critic.

[06:26] >> Late last week, he posted an interview

[06:28] that he did on the 10th anniversary of

[06:32] >> Oh my god, I'm blanking on what? Uh was

[06:34] it Hardome? The one

[06:36] >> I'm guessing

[06:37] >> where Ty Tyrion got conked on the head

[06:39] and missed the entire battle that

[06:41] episode.

[06:41] >> Blackwater.

[06:43] >> Yes. And he was

[06:44] >> Green Fork is the one where where they

[06:46] couldn't afford to shoot it so they just

[06:48] knocked Tyrion out and it ended up

[06:49] working out pretty well.

[06:50] >> Yeah. And it was Alan Taylor talking

[06:52] about that choice as well as the fact

[06:54] that because they didn't have the budget

[06:55] they had to do an 11minute dialogue

[06:57] scene of them just sitting at a tent

[06:58] playing games. And that's Game of

[07:01] Thrones to me. That's Westeros. That's

[07:03] the thing where like I get like prickly

[07:05] all over my skin and excited and alive

[07:08] versus watching a bunch of ships very

[07:10] slowly go through a pass and a bunch of

[07:12] dragons flying around in a circle. It's

[07:14] cool, but it's not the same level.

[07:16] >> Well, one of my favorite authors, Jason

[07:18] Paren, he's been on the channel once

[07:19] before and I would have him on more

[07:20] often, but it makes me nervous because I

[07:22] love his work so much. He had a great

[07:23] video recently where he talked about um

[07:25] criticisms people have on Game of

[07:27] Thrones. said the show is better than

[07:28] the books, which I haven't read all the

[07:30] books, but his argument was there's a

[07:32] lot of scenes that are in the show that

[07:34] you don't people don't realize are just

[07:35] from the show. Like the conversation

[07:36] between Jaime and Tywin, you know, a

[07:39] wolf does not consider himself does not

[07:40] consider the opinions of the sheep,

[07:42] things like that that were invented for

[07:43] the show. Lady Elena, much bigger in the

[07:46] show than she was in the book. Um, but

[07:48] then he his theory is that after a hard

[07:50] home, which is why it was on my mind,

[07:52] then Game of Thrones, suddenly the show

[07:54] had an expectation to always deliver on

[07:56] spectacle and those smaller moments went

[07:59] by the wayside. And I personally thought

[08:01] season two needed more smaller moments.

[08:04] I didn't care if it ended on a giant

[08:08] crescendo. Uh, season one of Game of

[08:09] Thrones, the giant crescendo is Ned

[08:11] Stark being beheaded. Spoiler alert. And

[08:13] I don't think you necessarily need that

[08:16] big moment. I thought the the Dragon

[08:18] Seeds was that big moment, but I would

[08:20] have liked two more episodes of the

[08:21] exact stuff you guys are talking about

[08:23] of like people in rooms and gardens

[08:25] talking, you know, like South Park did

[08:26] when they made fun of it. But Harry, you

[08:28] loved it. So, what are your thoughts on

[08:29] that? Could you have used more smaller

[08:30] moments?

[08:32] >> I mean, I think smaller moments in this

[08:34] episode or in season two.

[08:36] >> Um, well, season two had the smaller

[08:38] moments, but whatever your thoughts are.

[08:39] Go ahead. Yeah.

[08:40] >> I mean, I think um I actually do agree

[08:42] that the big battles are not my favorite

[08:44] part of this show. Um I know a lot of

[08:47] like I was kind of hyped up for this

[08:48] battle because I feel like everybody was

[08:50] like it was like oh it's like the

[08:51] biggest most complicated most expensive

[08:53] you know naval battle. Um so I was

[08:56] curious to see it but definitely the

[08:58] most memorable parts of the episode to

[09:00] me are not uh from that. I mean I am the

[09:05] well I won't say the biggest but I think

[09:06] I'm probably up there in terms of the

[09:08] biggest Allison High Tower stands in the

[09:11] world.

[09:12] This [laughter] is a good It is a good

[09:13] Allison's episode right there. I'm just

[09:15] saying

[09:17] >> I'm just saying I'm I'm right there too

[09:18] for her. That's

[09:19] >> okay. Okay. I thought she has never done

[09:22] anything wrong. She has never done

[09:24] anything wrong in her entire life.

[09:25] >> Perfect mother.

[09:26] >> Perfect mother.

[09:27] >> Perfect mother. Um you know, just

[09:30] morally upstanding from the beginning to

[09:32] the end. Um, but no, I I love her so

[09:34] much and I think like you mentioned the

[09:37] scene with her and Aean was viscerally

[09:40] like uncomfortable and also I just love

[09:43] to get to see Allison using her skills

[09:47] like her manipulation, her cunning

[09:50] >> for the sake of Reneer in this episode

[09:52] is really nice. Um, I love to see it no

[09:54] matter who she's using it for, but it's

[09:56] nice when it like feels like a morally

[09:58] [laughter] correct thing to do

[10:00] >> because season two took her off the

[10:01] board for so long. Like Aean's

[10:02] manipulated and you know, as soon as the

[10:04] men had what they wanted, she was pushed

[10:06] off to the sidelines. So, yeah, I agree.

[10:09] >> Yeah. So, she's taking her power back in

[10:11] this episode and also realizing once

[10:14] again just how uh horrible both of her

[10:17] children or both of her sons are. Uh

[10:19] yeah, Helena is

[10:20] >> holding out hope for for Dron and uh

[10:22] Helena is lovely, but

[10:24] >> apparently Dron's really nice. Like he's

[10:26] got round. [laughter] Yeah.

[10:29] >> Um and you know, just before we talk

[10:31] about like get your thoughts on the

[10:32] nuances here and the things you didn't

[10:34] like. Uh while we're talking about big

[10:35] battles, I do have Okay, so we always

[10:38] talk about merch on here. We've got two

[10:39] pieces of merch that I already have in

[10:41] the mail for myself. I love these

[10:43] shirts. I can't wait for you guys to see

[10:45] these. This is the Dance of the Dragons

[10:47] tour shirt. God, it is so cool. So, you

[10:49] got like the heavy metal look in front

[10:51] with the Seven Kingdoms tour and then on

[10:53] the back those are all the battles from

[10:55] the war from the Dance of the Dragons. I

[10:57] like this so much we might end up doing

[10:58] one for um like other shows and battles

[11:01] and things like that. Uh like imagine

[11:03] doing that for Lord of the Rings. That'd

[11:04] be cool. And this one is my favorite

[11:06] characters in this part of the story,

[11:07] the Winter Wolves. We came to Die. And I

[11:10] um the fact that it's like Chibs from

[11:12] Sons of Anarchy, whose name I can never

[11:14] remember, but the fact that he is

[11:15] leading the Winter Wolves makes me so

[11:18] excited. They're this badass group in

[11:20] the winter. They're old men who go into

[11:22] the the cold to die and I'm just so

[11:25] excited to see it happen. But that's in

[11:26] the future. The the links for those are

[11:28] below. And remember, if you are a store

[11:29] member at our $5 tier, you get 15% off

[11:32] our merch store. Cam, so what do you

[11:34] think? What lay in lay into it here? You

[11:35] don't have to just be nice. What what

[11:37] what's the nitty-gritty about this you

[11:38] didn't enjoy?

[11:39] >> Um I well I I just I again I' I've

[11:43] programmed myself to enjoy the show now

[11:45] because I can't let it hurt me anymore.

[11:47] You know, I've set boundaries with the

[11:49] show. So there's just certain ways it

[11:51] can't disappoint me. Um

[11:52] >> you sound like a true intern, by the

[11:54] way. I mean that [laughter] you know um

[11:57] I I I we won't get too specific but not

[12:00] unlike certain Game of Thrones

[12:01] characters. I've worked in politics for

[12:03] a while and you learn to set emotional

[12:04] boundaries in those situations. But look

[12:06] I mean I am a little ambivalent towards

[12:09] certain characters in the story and I

[12:12] think that um certain characters have

[12:15] felt a little bit like they've been

[12:18] written differently depending on what

[12:20] episode we're in. And it just

[12:23] >> in Game of Thrones, the side characters

[12:25] were so distinct. Like Ober and Martell

[12:29] to me on Game of Thrones was more

[12:31] memorable than the majority of the main

[12:33] cast on House of the Dragon. And Ober

[12:35] and Martell didn't have a lot of screen

[12:36] time. Bella Ramsay's character, uh,

[12:39] Lyanna Mormont, uh, that little

[12:41] monologue, uh, you know, the King of the

[12:44] North monologue that that Bella had at

[12:47] the end of season six

[12:48] >> was so memorable to me. And I think that

[12:51] there's a lot of characters who get a

[12:52] lot of screen time in House of the

[12:54] Dragon that aren't able to make that

[12:56] distinct impact. I mean, it really is

[12:59] the supporting characters like there's

[13:00] so many characters you you go

[13:02] >> Elena Martell. I mean, they're also

[13:03] talking about world-class casting too,

[13:05] either from veterans or upandcomers like

[13:07] within

[13:08] >> and that's and that's just it's on the

[13:11] script. There's no two ways about it

[13:13] because, you know, I I can think of

[13:15] maybe one or two performances that

[13:17] haven't been super compelling on House

[13:19] of the Dragon, but not really. I mean,

[13:22] every

[13:22] >> And are you being nice by not naming

[13:24] them right now?

[13:25] >> I can, again, I can only think of one or

[13:28] two. I have both of them in my head, but

[13:30] I don't think either of them are bad

[13:31] enough that they deserve to be shamed

[13:32] like that. It's up to interpretation.

[13:34] But I mean,

[13:35] >> you're so nice.

[13:36] >> What these actors are able to do is

[13:38] really insane. And some of them do a

[13:40] little some of them do a lot with a

[13:42] little. Like um obviously Emma Darcy and

[13:46] Olivia Cook are extraordinary. We don't

[13:48] need to talk in any more circles about

[13:50] that. Um but then you get somebody like

[13:53] Aean. I think his name is Euan. That's

[13:55] the actor's name.

[13:56] >> Euan.

[13:57] He he does this very interesting thing

[13:59] where it's like he has a very theatrical

[14:02] performance of Aean and he it feels like

[14:05] he's doing a different sort of acting as

[14:07] the other characters. Kristen Cole is so

[14:11] small. His monologues that he gives I I

[14:14] say this to people, Kristen Cole is

[14:16] actually the best adaptation we've ever

[14:17] gotten of A Feast for Crows because if

[14:19] you remember the book A Feast for Crows,

[14:21] so much of it is ruminating on the

[14:24] consequences of the war from the first

[14:26] three books. So much of a feast for

[14:27] crows is almost like a reflection and a

[14:29] meditation on the war of the five kings

[14:31] that hasn't fully ended, but you know

[14:32] what I'm saying. And Kristen Cole, his

[14:35] monologues that he gives, his long

[14:36] scenes

[14:37] >> with high Tower feel like the best of a

[14:40] feast for crows in a way that's really

[14:42] cool. But then you have Aemon and Aeund

[14:44] is like a Shakespeare villain. So, one

[14:47] of the really cool things on House of

[14:48] the Dragon is everybody's contributing

[14:51] in a very unique way and it makes the

[14:54] whole thing feel sort of like a big

[14:55] symphony where everybody's got a

[14:57] different instrument and everybody's

[14:58] contributing something special that's

[15:00] distinct from one another. Um, but

[15:02] again, in terms of the voices of the

[15:03] characters, in terms of the words on the

[15:05] page, I just don't have a really good

[15:07] job telling one Targaryen descendant

[15:10] from another necessarily. H well, Alex.

[15:13] Okay, so you mentioned that on the

[15:15] original Game of Thrones, um, not your

[15:17] words, but I'll paraphrase. Everybody

[15:19] was drawn with pretty broad strokes. You

[15:21] were, you know, you knew up front like,

[15:22] "Hey, this guy is a cool character. This

[15:25] guy Joffrey."

[15:27] >> Cio's one of the best examples. Cerio

[15:29] had five minutes on screen. You never

[15:31] forgot him.

[15:32] >> Yeah. And his speech was not in the book

[15:34] to bring up another point from Jason

[15:35] Parson. Um, given that, I kind of feel

[15:38] like House of the Dragon is a little bit

[15:41] more nuanced and subtle in how it

[15:43] presents these characters. Uh, there's a

[15:45] lot of gray area with them. Maybe

[15:47] because we saw them as children, so we

[15:48] understand why Aean is the way he is.

[15:51] Would you say that how this how does

[15:54] this show's subtleties compare to Game

[15:56] of Thrones? And which one which approach

[15:58] do you like better? [snorts]

[15:59] >> Well, I think that's interesting. I

[16:00] mean, certainly watching them over time,

[16:02] like you're saying, allows us to watch

[16:04] them develop, but like Cameron was

[16:06] saying, I think some of them, and not to

[16:09] take any of his words, but uh some of

[16:11] them just have not developed in

[16:12] interesting ways. I mean, I'll I'll call

[16:14] out names. I don't care. Uh Kristen Cole

[16:17] is the most boring character on the

[16:18] show, and I hope he dies. And it's

[16:21] >> favorite character, though.

[16:22] >> I'm sorry. It's crazy to me because

[16:24] Fabian Frankle is so funny in interviews

[16:27] and so charming. Like really you just

[16:30] the second you turn him on turn on a

[16:32] camera there any footage I've seen any

[16:34] interview I've seen he's like joke joke

[16:36] joke joke joke joke joke joke joke joke

[16:36] joke joke joke joke joke joke joke joke

[16:36] joke joke joke about it then you turn on

[16:38] Kristen Cole and he's like [laughter]

[16:40] I don't care about rape I don't know I

[16:42] just got to paint my shield that's what

[16:43] I got to do

[16:44] >> well he's going through it though he's

[16:45] suffering from PTSD at [laughter] this

[16:47] point okay yeah it's not the most

[16:49] exciting thing

[16:50] >> I'm sorry and this is obviously this is

[16:52] personal preference but just when they

[16:53] cut to that scene I was like oh man oh

[16:56] here we go

[16:57] >> a sad a sad detach hatched guy is it

[16:59] >> exactly and I don't want to watch a guy

[17:02] scorned incel

[17:03] >> I don't want to watch a guy who doesn't

[17:04] want to be there like if he doesn't want

[17:06] to be there I don't want him to be there

[17:08] you know that's very different from

[17:09] what's going on with like say Laris and

[17:11] Aegon who are going through a very

[17:14] >> very classic uh Game of Thrones

[17:16] situation where they're like we had very

[17:18] high status and now we have to pretend

[17:20] to be low status and things are going to

[17:22] get steadily worse and worse and more

[17:23] horrible for us until maybe we learn a

[17:25] lesson and become a little better or

[17:27] maybe not but that's Great. Like that's

[17:28] worked a billion times on Game of

[17:30] Thrones. I do think it's going to work

[17:32] here as well. And those are characters

[17:34] that have popped in different ways and

[17:36] now thrusting them into a different

[17:37] situation because we've watched them so

[17:39] so long is going to challenge them. I'll

[17:41] throw out one other name which I feel

[17:42] bad about because I really love the

[17:44] actors. But part of the reason I

[17:46] couldn't hook into the battle of the

[17:47] gullet was that there's a bunch of

[17:49] characters that I've had a hard time

[17:51] caring about. And I say this like

[17:54] >> good point.

[17:54] >> Steve Tusant, fantastic actor. I'm

[17:57] blanking on his name, but he's the guy

[17:58] who played father on Raised by Wolves,

[18:00] which is an amazing show that everybody

[18:01] should check out. He plays Allan, and

[18:04] he's awesome as well. But

[18:07] >> there's nothing really going on with

[18:08] their characters now that it's Reus who

[18:10] died, right, who was phenomenal. But

[18:13] without her as that rudder for that

[18:15] storyline, they're just sort of kind of

[18:17] wandering around. We get this to the

[18:20] point of Game of Thrones style

[18:22] introductions. I'm also blanking her

[18:24] name. Was it Shakaro Lohan? I'm getting

[18:26] that definitely very

[18:27] >> uh Lowhar

[18:28] >> Lohar something like that. We get like

[18:31] again like a classic, oh, she's not a

[18:32] Greyjoy, but she's basically a Greyjoy

[18:35] cool pirate lady who comes in with this

[18:36] awesome introduction and then brings up

[18:39] a set of circumstances that as far as

[18:41] I'm aware, we've never heard about in

[18:42] the show and suddenly have to

[18:44] emotionally hook into and then she's

[18:45] dead by the end of the episode. And I

[18:47] was like, I don't know. There's there's

[18:51] something again, not to throw everybody

[18:52] into the same situations over and over,

[18:54] but I do feel like the difference

[18:56] between Game of Thrones and House of the

[18:57] Dragon is she would have come in, burned

[19:00] High Tide, wrecked the fleet, taken the

[19:04] sea snake and his children hostage,

[19:06] tortured them for an entire season, and

[19:09] then we would come out with a better

[19:11] understanding of her, a better

[19:12] understanding of them. Instead, it's

[19:14] done in one and half the episode, and it

[19:16] just doesn't have the same impact. I

[19:18] don't know if in season one too.

[19:21] >> No, it does. It does. So, Harry, what do

[19:23] you think? Um, are you do you think

[19:25] there's some characters who are like

[19:26] underserved right now or that aren't

[19:28] allowed to fully bake or what are your

[19:29] thoughts and responses to what these two

[19:31] guys have said?

[19:32] >> I mean, I agree that there are some

[19:34] characters where I feel like I'm still

[19:36] waiting to see how their characters are

[19:38] going to be. Like, I would love to for

[19:40] more screen time, which I'm sure we're

[19:41] going to get this season, uh, with like

[19:43] Baya and Raina. Um.

[19:46] >> Mhm.

[19:46] >> And um

[19:48] >> I

[19:50] >> but I think um in some ways, not to like

[19:53] be complete House of the Dragon defense

[19:55] hour over here, I think we're kind of

[19:58] we're kind of doing it a disservice by

[19:59] comparing it so directly to Game of

[20:01] Thrones. I feel uh because Game of

[20:03] Thrones was in its essence an ensemble

[20:06] show. Um whereas

[20:09] uh I think that House of the Dragon is

[20:11] much more focused on a much smaller set

[20:13] of characters.

[20:15] And so I think uh that there certainly

[20:18] aren't as many like scene stealing uh

[20:20] side characters, but I think that that's

[20:23] not unintentional. Um and I do agree

[20:26] like I I think Lowhar didn't quite work

[20:28] for me as a character. I think waiting

[20:31] to introduce her to the last episode of

[20:33] last season. Um and I just think that

[20:36] like the the triarchy stuff just doesn't

[20:39] uh doesn't interest me that much. Um,

[20:42] but I think in general

[20:46] um I I find that there are a lot of uh I

[20:49] also think that in talking about how

[20:51] there are side characters that are

[20:53] ineffective, we have lists of like a lot

[20:54] of side characters that are very

[20:55] effective. Um,

[20:56] >> very true

[20:58] >> and like like Laris um like uh and I I I

[21:02] think that I am actually quite

[21:04] interested to see what's going on with

[21:05] Coralus. So I was uh I'm I think he was

[21:08] a real standout in season two for me. So

[21:11] >> for Lowhar, I was standing around in

[21:14] season two.

[21:16] >> Well, he was depressed. He was also

[21:17] quite sad for a long time.

[21:19] >> He was hanging up. I mean, it's really a

[21:20] testament to how hard it is to adapt

[21:23] Fire and Blood. And I think a lot of the

[21:24] people who have trouble

[21:26] >> you who who are upset about certain

[21:27] choices. I mean, I'm very upset about

[21:29] certain choices, but I also want to just

[21:32] I want people to understand if you

[21:33] really know Ball, if you really

[21:36] understand Fire and Blood, you

[21:38] understand that there were just going to

[21:39] be some impossible choices that Condol

[21:41] and Hess had to make. And again,

[21:44] >> I think that they made choices I don't

[21:46] like that they didn't have to make. But

[21:48] at the end of the day, um it's a very

[21:50] complicated piece of writing, Fire and

[21:52] Blood. There's a lot of things that were

[21:55] they under the same scrutiny under which

[21:58] George put uh the Ice and Fire main

[22:01] books just would not have gone down that

[22:04] way. There's some things I'm not going

[22:05] to spoil that are going to happen later

[22:07] this season in King's Landing that don't

[22:10] make that much sense in Fire and Blood.

[22:12] And it's awesome. I mean, I chewed Fire

[22:14] and Blood up. I don't read quickly. I

[22:15] finished it very quickly. But there's

[22:17] just some stuff

[22:18] >> Yeah.

[22:19] >> Yeah. There's just some stuff that once

[22:21] you take it you there's some stuff that

[22:24] works because you're reading other

[22:25] people's accounts of it. But once you're

[22:27] there and you have to be in the scene

[22:30] fivedimensionally, the writers are going

[22:32] to have to make some choices and it's

[22:33] just going to leave some fans very

[22:34] upset. Um but again I I just I wish

[22:39] there was I wish there was a platinum

[22:41] globe for those actors really. Well, let

[22:44] me let me let's start talking about the

[22:46] adaptation and by way of the characters

[22:48] I think were underserved in this episode

[22:50] and only because I know how important

[22:52] they are and let's let's avoid specific

[22:54] spoilers for the books, but um the

[22:56] bastards, right? So, that was the big

[22:59] culmination of last season. Uh it was

[23:01] the the dragon seeds, you know, and then

[23:03] seeing like how coarse Ulf is. Hugh

[23:05] Hammer was probably my favorite like

[23:08] side character in Fire and Blood the

[23:10] whole freaking volume. and and the they

[23:12] gave him a great setup with his wife and

[23:14] his his dead kid. Felt really bad for

[23:17] him. And in this episode, they got one

[23:19] scene. And I kind of I as much as I

[23:21] appreciate the focus actually shifting

[23:23] to Reneer's children in this episode

[23:25] because usually it's on Allison's kids.

[23:28] I do kind of want to see those guys do a

[23:31] little bit more. And I'm sure there's

[23:33] going to be more. I mean, Alice shows

[23:35] up, she talks to them and stuff like

[23:37] that. But nevertheless, that's the one

[23:38] thing in Fire Blood. Those characters

[23:40] really pop off the page and I felt like

[23:43] I don't know, you can kind of just maybe

[23:45] it's me and I don't want to spoil

[23:46] anything, but you can kind of see what's

[23:47] going to happen. I think they're

[23:48] telegraphing it too hard.

[23:49] >> Can I just say uh for anyone who isn't a

[23:52] total dork like us and just enjoy

[23:56] >> We lost everyone who's watching the

[23:58] channel. Wow. Stream went down to zero.

[24:00] That's crazy.

[24:01] >> I've never seen that happen before.

[24:02] >> You can buy You can see all the Ice and

[24:04] Fire books behind me, by the way. So, if

[24:06] you're if you're someone who isn't like

[24:07] this, you might not know this, but um

[24:10] because of the writer strike uh years

[24:13] ago, season 2 got preemptively cut. So,

[24:17] the the battle of the gullet in last

[24:20] night's episode was supposed to be the

[24:23] big culmination of what season 2 was

[24:25] building towards. So, everybody said,

[24:26] "Oh, season two left on such a flat note

[24:29] with everybody getting ready for these

[24:31] random battles." Well, it's because you

[24:33] know that very often the big thing in

[24:36] Thrones is the penultimate episode and

[24:39] from what I understand the Gullet was

[24:41] supposed to be the penultimate episode

[24:42] of season 2. Um because it had to get

[24:45] moved to the beginning of season 3. One

[24:48] of the things that was that was an issue

[24:50] for me in this episode was you had a

[24:52] couple of scenes that really felt like

[24:54] the writers reminding the audience who

[24:57] the characters are and what they're

[24:58] doing right now because it's been two

[25:00] years.

[25:01] >> So, we had certain scenes checking in

[25:04] with characters to set the tone for the

[25:06] season,

[25:07] >> whereas I think the the best version of

[25:09] this episode and the version that it was

[25:10] originally intended to be was going to

[25:13] surround the characters in the gullet

[25:15] sequence more. we were going to get more

[25:17] time with Jace and the other writers in

[25:20] the battle. We were going to get a

[25:21] little bit more time fleshing out who

[25:24] the pieces on the board were going to

[25:25] be. Because one thing we forget uh to

[25:28] your point, by the way, about Thrones

[25:31] being an ensemble show, whereas this uh

[25:33] focuses on a smaller set of characters

[25:35] is a lot of the most memorable episodes

[25:37] of Game of Thrones have like at least

[25:40] one main character just not in it. like

[25:43] some of the best Thrones episode.

[25:45] Daenerys isn't in. John isn't in.

[25:47] >> Very few don't have Tyrion, but

[25:49] >> Bran's not in a whole season.

[25:51] >> Yeah, exactly. Well,

[25:53] >> Bran's also the character who gives

[25:55] George the hardest time writing. George

[25:57] says that Bran is the hardest character

[25:58] to write because of a lot of the magic

[26:00] stuff, but um

[26:02] >> Oh, yeah. I mean, with all the

[26:04] three-eyed raven stuff where we won't go

[26:06] too far into

[26:08] >> Yeah. No, I can see where you're going.

[26:09] Don't go down that rabbit hole, my

[26:10] friend.

[26:12] talk about 200 years from now for one

[26:14] second. Um, the Game of Thrones books

[26:16] take place very close to the conscious

[26:19] of the characters. Every chapter is from

[26:21] their point of view and it's not from

[26:23] their first person point of view.

[26:25] >> So,

[26:25] >> it's third person limited.

[26:27] >> Exactly. If Arya hears overhears Varys

[26:30] having a conversation, the reader might

[26:32] be able to put together that it's Varys,

[26:34] but Arya doesn't know who he is, so

[26:36] they'll just say the bald man. All this

[26:38] is to say you need to write the magic

[26:41] very indepth when you're writing Bran as

[26:43] the three-eyed raven because you have

[26:45] access to Bran's conscious and the

[26:47] three-eyed raven is all about the

[26:49] conscious mind being something that

[26:51] could be expanded so far that it is just

[26:54] incomprehensible and writing that is

[26:56] pretty difficult. So George introduced a

[26:59] lot of these magic elements in the first

[27:00] book, A Game of Thrones. And then in A

[27:03] Clash of Kings and Ator Storm of Swords,

[27:05] you don't get that much of the magic

[27:07] stuff. It's really about the War of the

[27:08] Five Kings. And then by the end of Feast

[27:11] for Crows and Dance for Dragons, we

[27:12] reconciled with the fact that George now

[27:14] has to answer certain questions about

[27:16] magic that he was kind of avoiding for a

[27:18] couple books. Um but uh all this is to

[27:21] say uh the the reason we got onto this

[27:25] tangent in the first place is um the

[27:29] those bigger set pieces very often took

[27:32] an entire episode. So some of the most

[27:34] memorable Thrones episodes did not

[27:36] feature some of the main characters. And

[27:38] I do think the ideal version of this

[27:40] Gullet episode spends very very little

[27:42] time away from the characters in that

[27:45] sequence and gives us a little bit more

[27:47] time to get a sense of the physical

[27:50] space in the sequence. I think the one

[27:51] thing that was limited about the

[27:53] cinematography of the Gullet sequence

[27:55] was I didn't have that cohesive an idea

[27:59] of whose ships belonged to whom, where

[28:02] those ships were, and where they

[28:04] physically are at this point. I know

[28:06] >> the scale. Yeah, the scale and where

[28:08] they were, you know. I think all it

[28:10] needed was that classic Game of Thrones

[28:13] map scene where they're they're laying

[28:15] it out for us and saying, "Yep, we're

[28:17] going to go here." I think that the the

[28:20] pirates, the triarchy had that a little

[28:22] bit where they were discussing their

[28:23] strategy, but that vis that extra visual

[28:25] aid

[28:25] >> always. I'll throw out a visual aid that

[28:27] would have helped me. Different colored

[28:29] sales that would have helped. Like

[28:31] literally, if you just had red and blue,

[28:33] I like, "Oh, okay. I know who everybody

[28:34] is." and it's stupid, but when you're

[28:37] watching something, you do want to do

[28:38] those quick visual cues for everybody

[28:41] immediately. So, I don't know.

[28:43] >> I thought the battle though was sold

[28:44] more on the characters responses to it.

[28:46] And naval battles are really tough

[28:47] because they're huge. I mean, it's not

[28:49] like in a a battle like Battle of the

[28:51] Bastards where you can look at

[28:52] characters faces and you understand

[28:53] immediately from context. So, obviously

[28:56] when Corass and Allen and all these

[28:58] people are going, "Oh [ __ ] this is

[29:01] bad." And then the pirates are happy.

[29:03] You go, "Oh boy, this is bad for them."

[29:05] And then the dragons show up and people

[29:07] cheer. I I think it was really a battle

[29:09] that was told through specific

[29:11] characters and through what happened to

[29:12] the dragons. To that point, Harriet, you

[29:15] made a great observation in our Easter

[29:17] egg video. So, in the book, it's very

[29:19] different. In the book, Jace is joined

[29:22] by the bastards on Dragon Back and by

[29:25] Nettles, who people who haven't read the

[29:27] book don't know what the hell a Nettles

[29:28] is. So, I you pointed out this great

[29:30] thing where Alice shows up and says to

[29:32] the bastards, "You this, you shouldn't

[29:34] be here. You should be at the battle." I

[29:36] I do think that was an overt reference

[29:38] to the fact they weren't. Maybe in Cam,

[29:40] what Cam was talking about, they were

[29:42] originally supposed to be in the final

[29:44] episode, but maybe the money wasn't

[29:46] there for all the dragons in this battle

[29:47] of the gullet. I don't know. But what

[29:50] what do we Yeah, go ahead, Harry. Tell

[29:51] us about like the change from Nettles to

[29:54] is it Raina, the one who takes the

[29:55] dragon, and whether or not you think

[29:56] that works. Um, I mean, I think I'm also

[29:59] in the minority here in that I think I

[30:01] am a big fan of most of the changes that

[30:04] are being made from Fire and Blood. Um,

[30:06] I think most notably when it comes to

[30:08] like the characters of Reneer and

[30:09] Allison, who are just like not nearly as

[30:12] interesting in the book, I find um

[30:15] >> well, they weren't friends. They don't

[30:16] no one knows about their friendship or

[30:18] talks about it.

[30:19] >> And I I just find the way that their

[30:20] motivations are written are a little bit

[30:22] more um narrow. I mean, it makes sense

[30:25] because the book is not like only about

[30:27] these two characters. Like, it is a

[30:28] larger history. It has a lot of people

[30:30] to get through. Um, but I think um

[30:36] I I don't think we needed to have the

[30:38] dragon seeds at the battle of the

[30:40] gullet. I think it's too many

[30:41] characters. They don't really do

[30:43] anything unique in the book uh during

[30:45] that battle that would have I'm like,

[30:47] "Oh, I really missed it when Hugh Hammer

[30:49] probably uh lit some guys on fire." like

[30:52] they didn't they didn't really do

[30:53] anything specific, so I'm not mad they

[30:56] weren't there. Um, and when it comes to

[30:58] Nettles in general, uh, that was a

[31:00] character that I was initially a bit sad

[31:04] about, uh, the fact that they're

[31:06] swapping her for Raina, but at the same

[31:07] time, I think it makes a lot of sense.

[31:11] Um, when it comes to like,

[31:14] >> uh, giving Raina more to do for one

[31:16] thing. I know I've seen people being

[31:17] like sad about the fact that Raina's

[31:19] character won't necessarily, and I'll be

[31:21] vague, won't be going down the exact

[31:22] same path

[31:23] >> that she goes down in the book, but I

[31:25] think when it comes to the scale of the

[31:27] show,

[31:28] >> yeah,

[31:29] >> uh, and the years that the show is

[31:31] likely to cover, I think this is going

[31:32] to make Raina a much more important

[31:34] character now. Um,

[31:36] >> yeah. Well,

[31:37] >> it also keeps the focus like the Fast

[31:39] and Furious franchise on family just by

[31:41] having her be in there instead of

[31:42] Nettles, by the way, is a just a

[31:44] different dragon seed who tame sheep

[31:46] stealer by giving it sheep. And I think

[31:48] Nettles actually is good at riding the

[31:51] dragon, not like what we see.

[31:53] >> There's also like popular fan theory uh

[31:56] that Nettles is uh possibly Damon's

[32:00] bastard daughter. Um

[32:02] >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. because she's from

[32:04] the Riverlands sense enough that they're

[32:06] just like, "Okay, so it's Raina who is

[32:08] his daughter." So,

[32:10] >> yeah, that makes sense. Which, by the

[32:11] way, for anyone who is curious, this

[32:13] potential bastard daughter, I don't

[32:15] happen to believe that theory, but I'm

[32:16] familiar with the theory, um, does have

[32:19] a sexual relationship with Damon as

[32:20] well, which is not uncharacteristic for

[32:22] Damon.

[32:23] >> But I imagine the writers of the show,

[32:26] who seem a bit more sympathetic to

[32:28] Damon, seem like bigger fans of Damon,

[32:30] might not have wanted to have Damon do

[32:31] something that predatory again. Um,

[32:34] >> yeah, I mean, he marries his niece,

[32:36] that's already pretty far bridge over

[32:38] the river. Uh, so I happen to completely

[32:40] agree that the dragon seeds were

[32:42] unnecessary for the Battle of the

[32:44] Gullet. I think it would have just made

[32:45] it even more confusing. Um, because not

[32:48] only do you now have to keep up with

[32:49] which ships are which, now you have to

[32:51] keep up with which dragons are which.

[32:53] Um,

[32:54] >> can I throw out there as somebody uh,

[32:56] full disclosure has not read Fire and

[32:58] Blood, so I'm definitely I've read the

[32:59] rest of the books, but I'm coming into

[33:00] this clean. I think my impression from

[33:03] watching this episode is that if you had

[33:06] the dragon seeds in the gullet, it would

[33:08] have changed the course of the battle

[33:11] potentially. It would sort of overwhelm

[33:13] the amount of dragons that are there.

[33:15] That's certainly what I took away from

[33:16] it. Obviously, they're still like

[33:17] figuring out how to use the dragons, so

[33:19] that's certainly an issue. But that that

[33:22] was my feeling just purely from watching

[33:24] the show was they were kept off stage

[33:26] because if they came in, it would have

[33:28] been a very different battle than the

[33:29] one they watched. Not to backseat,

[33:31] right? But I do feel like there's a

[33:33] version where they come in in that last

[33:36] scene and are like, "Oh my god, what

[33:39] actually happened here?" And we do get

[33:41] that sort of little wrap up of their

[33:43] tiny little story line throughout the

[33:44] episode. Because right now, Alice

[33:46] telling them, "You got to go to the

[33:48] battle. You're missing this." And they

[33:49] do in fact miss it is not a satisfying

[33:52] resolution in this hour of television.

[33:55] >> Sorry to interrupt.

[33:55] >> Yeah, they really just have a couple of

[33:56] scenes. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, Kim.

[33:59] Um, so look, there's going to be some

[34:01] consolidations that have to be made and

[34:03] it's going to make some people unhappy.

[34:04] I'm unhappy at some of those

[34:05] consolidations. But like I said, there's

[34:07] just a lot of really, really difficult

[34:09] things about this show because you have

[34:10] to make a cohesive story about a history

[34:13] book that covers years and years and

[34:15] years at a time. And George just spams

[34:18] Fire and Blood with characters. Every

[34:20] page of Fire and Blood, there's nine new

[34:22] characters. I I I had like a legal pad

[34:26] tracking the characters I was reading,

[34:27] especially during the reign of King

[34:29] Jiharis, the old king, Jiharis the

[34:32] consiliator.

[34:32] >> Yeah. When he has like 13 kids and they

[34:34] all have kids. Yeah.

[34:35] >> Um but one of the things that was really

[34:39] big as an omission and then

[34:41] unfortunately I have to go because I

[34:42] I've been working this entire time and

[34:44] have been uh you know pretending to be

[34:47] online at my job. But um one of the

[34:50] things that was was a huge omission, and

[34:53] this is a spoiler for the book, so

[34:54] please excuse me if you were

[34:56] >> I think we're okay with spoilers. Yeah.

[34:57] >> Was um Reineer's sons were supposed to

[34:59] be at this fight. In the book, her very

[35:03] very young son who's a little bit I

[35:06] think he's I think he's older in the

[35:07] It's a rare case of a character being

[35:09] older in the book than on the show.

[35:11] Normally the characters get aged up on

[35:13] the Game of Thrones shows because of all

[35:14] the sex violence and all that. Um, but

[35:17] in this case,

[35:18] >> Reineer has a baby right now. It's easy

[35:20] to forget that because of how many

[35:21] things are going on, but Reineer's got

[35:24] two babies. Um, Egon the third

[35:26] >> with Damon. Yeah.

[35:27] >> Yeah. Egon the third, whose very naming

[35:30] of Agon was meant to be an insult to

[35:32] Agon the

[35:34] >> well, whatever you want to call him, you

[35:35] know, Agon the true king or Agon the

[35:37] >> Egon the second.

[35:38] >> Agon the second or Egon the usurper,

[35:41] whatever, whatever you want. Um she has

[35:43] Egon's

[35:45] around five or six four, five, six years

[35:47] old in the book at this point and then

[35:49] she's got um

[35:50] >> a younger um I think Viseris II and they

[35:55] are both being transported to Esos

[35:58] >> during the Battle of the Gullet. And

[35:59] this is a very important plot point

[36:01] because that son of hers,

[36:03] >> again, spoiler alert, is going to be one

[36:06] of the more consequential characters in

[36:07] the next 100 years of Westerosi history.

[36:10] And

[36:12] >> Viseris II gets kidnapped by the

[36:15] Triarchy and is presumed dead.

[36:18] >> And Agon barely escapes on a tiny dragon

[36:22] and will forever for excuse me for a

[36:24] very very long time be plagued with the

[36:25] guilt of what happened with that. But

[36:27] really of all of the things happening at

[36:29] the Battle of the Gullet, the there

[36:31] there big deal was of course what

[36:35] happened with Jerus. Rest in peace. I

[36:37] mean darkhaired Targaryenss can never

[36:39] catch a break. Rest in peace, Jerus.

[36:41] Rest in peace, Baylor.

[36:42] >> John survived, but sure.

[36:44] >> Well,

[36:46] he had a hard time, too. It's not easy

[36:48] to be charact.

[36:50] >> He did die. He did die, actually. So,

[36:52] yeah, you're right. No, they Yeah.

[36:54] >> But I was just going to say the the the

[36:57] really big development there was the

[36:59] pieces that were put in place for what's

[37:02] going to happen after the result of the

[37:05] dance of the dragons. So that was cut

[37:08] >> and that is a huge cut and I imagine

[37:10] George was very unhappy about that. And

[37:12] there's some things that make George

[37:14] very upset where I'm like yeah George

[37:16] look what they did to your baby. You

[37:18] should be furious. And there's some

[37:19] things where I'm like George what did

[37:21] you want them to do? [laughter] Like

[37:23] there's just certain story like George

[37:26] >> when they cut like one of Helena's kids

[37:28] and he threw a hissy fit on social and

[37:30] then later deleted it. Right. And and

[37:32] and look, I'm very sympathetic to

[37:36] George, all right? But sometimes it's

[37:38] like,

[37:38] >> we love George. George is great.

[37:41] >> The thing that that we're the thing

[37:42] that's annoying to me is I'm like,

[37:43] George, you've seen this on Game of

[37:45] Thrones before. Like, you understand

[37:48] that there's

[37:49] >> uh that you have to sacrifice certain

[37:52] things when you're adapting something

[37:53] from page to screen. You understand that

[37:55] you have an unlimited budget for set

[37:57] pieces on the page, and that's not the

[37:59] case on screen.

[38:00] >> But I digress. I love House the Dragon.

[38:03] I love George. There's a lot of stuff I

[38:05] don't love, but I'm lucky to be here

[38:07] with you guys talking about it. I have

[38:09] to go do my job. Thank you all.

[38:10] >> Cam, you're fired.

[38:12] >> Oh, yeah. As always, nice meeting you

[38:14] guys, by the way.

[38:16] >> Miss you. And that was Cameron Casky,

[38:18] ladies and gentlemen, laying down brutal

[38:20] truth about the hot D. Um,

[38:23] >> can I just say my big my big takeaway

[38:25] from that is I feel like we were robbed

[38:27] seeing a baby on a tidy little dragon.

[38:29] Apparently that's in the books and we

[38:32] should have seen him flying around to

[38:33] the battle of that would have been

[38:34] >> he's not a baby but he is Cameron's

[38:36] right like he does become and there's a

[38:38] partic

[38:38] >> there is a particular thing about him

[38:41] the dying of the dragons that's really

[38:43] important. Um

[38:44] >> I disagree though. I don't think it's

[38:46] necessarily vital to that part of the

[38:49] whole story though. Go ahead Harriet. I

[38:51] will say I mentioned this in our Easter

[38:52] egg video, but I feel pretty I think

[38:55] it's pretty likely that these are that

[38:56] the events of those two kids from the

[38:59] battle of the gullet in the book will be

[39:01] adapted in some other way later in the

[39:03] season. I think it's possible that they

[39:05] just didn't want to draw focus away from

[39:08] the battle. Um,

[39:10] >> yes, I think you're right. I'm

[39:11] remembering. Yes, I think you're right.

[39:13] >> So, like we'll see. I I might be wrong

[39:15] about that, but uh that's what I think

[39:17] is that they're probably separating

[39:19] those two events to make them more

[39:20] easily understood.

[39:23] >> Alex, you are probably feeling like I do

[39:25] when I hear two soccer fans talk about

[39:27] World Cup [laughter] stuff.

[39:28] >> Like we're here like

[39:31] and then he's got a you know a good

[39:33] friend.

[39:33] >> I mean listen, I've watched every

[39:35] episode of these shows multiple times.

[39:37] All of them. I've read the Song of Ice

[39:40] and Fire books, the Duncan Egg Nollas,

[39:43] Fire and Blood for some reason, and now

[39:45] I know after taping this that I got to

[39:47] go read it because I'm missing out. But

[39:49] to me, I was like,

[39:51] >> it it is such a fun read and you

[39:54] really good. Yeah,

[39:55] >> because when I heard about it, I was

[39:56] like, I don't want to read an appendix.

[39:58] What are we doing? It's like reading

[39:59] this mystery that's being told by really

[40:01] gossipy like people who [laughter] are

[40:04] like and I heard like

[40:06] >> and it's like it's like if the

[40:08] smearillion was intended for people to

[40:09] read you know what I mean like if it was

[40:11] actually [laughter] like

[40:12] >> that's my problem is I tried reading the

[40:13] simmerelion and I was like my eyes

[40:15] started oh god no it's impossible and I

[40:17] felt like

[40:18] >> what a lot of people don't realize no

[40:20] one's actually read the simmerelion

[40:22] everybody just says they had

[40:24] >> even Peter Jackson you ask him about it

[40:26] he can't provide details that's the No,

[40:29] he lies. You can tell. It's in his eyes.

[40:30] You can tell. You can [laughter] tell

[40:31] when a kiwi lies to your face.

[40:33] >> I've never been afraid to look away from

[40:34] a man's gaze. It's natural. [laughter]

[40:37] >> I was definitely like there were bits of

[40:38] fire and blood. I was like, "Okay, I'll

[40:40] go to bed after just like one more one

[40:42] more dynasty." Like, [laughter]

[40:43] >> and it's so easy. But I'll tell you my

[40:45] favorite thing about Fire and Blood. And

[40:46] like I think, you know, they're making

[40:47] an Aegon Conqueror movie. I I think

[40:50] that's the first movie. I think the

[40:51] second movie is about his kids. And then

[40:53] I I think they're going to do that. Like

[40:55] I don't think that his conquest can

[40:56] support more than one movie. My favorite

[40:59] part of the book is just when things run

[41:02] really well when old King Jiharis takes

[41:04] over the kingdom and builds roads and

[41:06] institutes reforms. I'm like I'm like

[41:08] can't you know I get I'm into politics

[41:10] and Sim City and that was my two

[41:12] favorite things is like reading all this

[41:14] stuff. I loved it. But let me ask you

[41:15] this. So we got an interesting question

[41:16] here on a super chat from Arman the

[41:18] regular contributor. Gave us five

[41:19] pounds. Thank you so much. I really

[41:21] think he says or they say this should

[41:23] have been an animated series. Maybe I'm

[41:26] crazy for that. An animated series in

[41:28] this world could be so fun. I don't know

[41:30] about this story, but I'm with you on

[41:32] the animated series thing. That would be

[41:34] kind of cool. I wonder if there's side

[41:37] stories even from the original show they

[41:39] could go into animated. Yeah, I don't

[41:42] think they would ever do this for not

[41:45] even like almost reverse budgetary

[41:47] reasons because they do want to I think

[41:49] there's a certain level of marketing

[41:51] where they're like, "Yeah, we spent $20

[41:53] million on this amazing looking TV show,

[41:55] so tune into it." But that's a great way

[41:58] of continuing stuff past Game of

[42:01] Thrones. Like, as much as I'd like to

[42:03] see the liveaction Jon Snow show or the

[42:05] live action definitely the live action

[42:07] Arya show.

[42:09] >> Yeah. just do Arya in animation like an

[42:12] adult animated series like the like

[42:15] Castlevania or Devil May Cry or anything

[42:17] like that. That would be rad.

[42:20] >> Or like in the style of Arcane that

[42:21] painted style.

[42:22] >> Oh yeah,

[42:22] >> that would be great, too.

[42:24] >> And Harry, there's already I mean if

[42:25] Yeah, go ahead.

[42:26] >> Oh, sorry. What were you going to say?

[42:28] The the histories and lore things.

[42:30] >> Yeah.

[42:30] >> Um yeah, I mean the histories and lore

[42:32] like uh and conquests and rebellions

[42:34] like little animated things are really

[42:36] awesome. Uh definitely really useful for

[42:39] B-roll when we're cutting videos. Um but

[42:42] uh I think yeah, I would love to see I

[42:45] don't think that this needs to be

[42:46] animation by any means. I think the

[42:48] performances are some of my favorite

[42:50] parts of it. And obviously voice acting

[42:52] is an art in and of itself, but I mean

[42:54] the

[42:54] >> like facial performances of these actors

[42:57] are so integral to what I love about

[43:00] this show. Like I can't imagine Allison

[43:02] not being Olivia Cook's face. Um,

[43:06] >> right. Right.

[43:07] >> But, uh, I think like I would love to

[43:09] see like an animated like series or

[43:12] movie about like the uh how Daenerys's

[43:15] eggs like ended up on the other side of

[43:17] the Narrow Sea. I think that's a really

[43:18] fascinating part of Fire and Blood. So,

[43:20] I would love to see that.

[43:22] >> Um,

[43:22] >> well, you know what what else would be

[43:24] interesting too is um they they did try

[43:27] to develop a couple of Game of Thrones

[43:29] pilots that no one will ever see. One is

[43:30] about the age of heroes and the long

[43:32] night which apparently is unwatchable.

[43:34] And gosh, somebody famous is in that

[43:36] too. I can't remember. It's not Holly

[43:38] Hunter. That would be funny to see in

[43:39] the Game of Thrones universe, but it's

[43:41] Patricia Arquette I think is in it.

[43:43] [clears throat and snorts]

[43:43] >> Um, and then they apparently scrapped a

[43:45] Valyria one, like an old Valyria in the

[43:47] style of like the sci-fi show Krypton or

[43:49] Capria that takes place like during

[43:51] that. I think Valyria is a place that

[43:54] would be so beautiful

[43:56] >> that it should be animated like in the

[43:59] style of arcane like this painted kind

[44:01] of like very expensive lush where like

[44:03] we shouldn't be able to imagine like

[44:06] Drogon should be the last creature that

[44:08] sees old Valyria you know what I mean

[44:09] and you can kind of maintain the myth

[44:11] that way and then actually Alex oh go

[44:13] ahead I got a

[44:14] >> I was just going to throw off uh throw

[44:16] out based on what you're saying what

[44:18] would be in my opinion really cool is

[44:20] like a tales of Westeros type story

[44:23] where you

[44:23] >> I thought they would do that.

[44:25] >> Take those pilots that you're talking

[44:27] about, animate them, and have them as be

[44:30] like, well, maybe this happened, maybe

[44:31] this didn't. We're telling this tale to

[44:33] you, and so you get to see those things.

[44:36] They already have a couple of scripts

[44:37] there that they could tweak and change a

[44:38] little bit. Do them each uh Star Wars

[44:41] vision style in different animated

[44:43] styles or something like that. It would

[44:44] be really cool.

[44:45] >> And the big event they will never do

[44:46] live action is Robert's Rebellion. And

[44:49] there's you could even go back with that

[44:50] and do um like the tournament where

[44:54] there was a knight in disguise who I

[44:56] think was probably Rhaegar and or no

[44:58] when Rhaegar took the favor of Lyanna

[45:00] and like there's all like all these

[45:02] little things that built up to the

[45:03] rebellion. I think it would be fun to

[45:04] see those nuances. So, and yeah, I

[45:06] thought they would do an anthology show

[45:07] a long time ago. I thought that would be

[45:08] the show after Game of Thrones. Mhm.

[45:10] >> Um, and then Dave M gave us five bucks

[45:12] and said, "If you're having difficulty

[45:14] identifying the sales, then showed then

[45:16] so did sheep stealer, the feral

[45:18] bastard." The feral bastard dragon.

[45:20] [laughter]

[45:21] I So, Harriet, we were talking about the

[45:24] show earlier. I love that they added

[45:27] this, you know, because originally it's

[45:29] nettles and, you know, Jace does die at

[45:30] the battle, but this idea of making it

[45:32] so personal and that Sheepsteeler isn't

[45:35] just feral, but you know, dragons

[45:37] attached to the emotions of their rider

[45:40] and she's [ __ ] terrified and that is,

[45:43] you know, she won't he won't obey her

[45:45] because her fear is being transferred to

[45:47] him and he's lashing out at everybody. I

[45:49] personally thought that change worked

[45:52] beautifully for the show. What what were

[45:53] your thoughts on Sheepsteeler?

[45:56] >> Um, I mean, I love like the design of

[45:59] Sheepsteeler. I think

[46:01] >> uh as as I said again in the video, I

[46:04] think uh it's really interesting that

[46:06] we've seen like dragons disobey their

[46:07] writers so many times in this show

[46:09] because that's not something that is

[46:11] ever

[46:12] >> it's always the kids. It never has come

[46:14] up in the uh in the book. I mean, it's

[46:16] partially we're hearing a history told

[46:18] many many years later. So, it's very

[46:19] possible that uh something like that did

[46:22] happen, but we've never heard about it.

[46:24] And I think it makes the dragons

[46:25] themselves more interesting. It's like

[46:27] it's not a you know, the dragons are

[46:30] obviously a lot of the times a metaphor

[46:32] for nuclear warfare. Uh but I think in

[46:35] that case it's like um but what if the

[46:38] warhead had a mind of its own also? Uh

[46:40] which is

[46:42] >> a little scary.

[46:44] >> Yeah. I mean it is basically when a

[46:45] machine when a weapon comes to life, you

[46:47] know, and has consciousness. Yeah.

[46:49] >> You know what it makes me think of,

[46:50] Harriet? You know the line I think you

[46:52] it was in our Easter egg video which is

[46:53] out now. Um you you go back and quote or

[46:56] maybe it was in our dragon video that

[46:57] came out before that where Tyrion says

[46:59] dragons are intelligent accord more

[47:01] intelligent than men according to some

[47:02] maesters, right? And they have this

[47:05] knowledge and I maintain that the

[47:07] existence of dragons and the reason the

[47:08] Targaryenss are even able to use them is

[47:10] because of deep magic tied to the Lord

[47:12] of Light and the Long Night and stuff

[47:13] like that. Um, but it makes me think

[47:16] about Drogon melting the iron throne and

[47:19] how people really pissed on that idea

[47:21] like, "Oh, is he understand symbolism?"

[47:24] Yes, I think he understood symbolism. I

[47:27] think he knew through telepathic

[47:28] connection that this throne is what he

[47:31] was helping Daenerys achieve and that

[47:33] when he melted it, he 100% knew what he

[47:37] was doing when he did it. And I think

[47:39] this show is continuing to support that

[47:40] by showing their independence.

[47:44] Yeah, maybe. I I uh I find it hard to

[47:46] come down at all on the side of like

[47:48] maybe Game of Thrones season 8 isn't

[47:50] actually that bad. [laughter] But um

[47:52] >> I think it's a logistical challenge and

[47:54] they ran out of time and the thing it's

[47:57] got it's got it.

[47:58] >> You're suggesting what you're suggesting

[48:00] is we need a look who's talking season

[48:02] where we hear the dragon's thoughts

[48:04] [laughter] and they're like, "Oh boy,

[48:06] get what this guy's doing." That's my

[48:09] dragon voice. I don't know.

[48:10] >> Yeah. Only if they all talk like that.

[48:11] That's the only way out. Yeah. Yeah.

[48:13] [laughter]

[48:14] >> I got to send a really quick message

[48:16] here. So, final thoughts. We're about to

[48:18] sign off. Um, Alex,

[48:20] out of 10, how many stars do you give

[48:22] this?

[48:23] >> Oh gosh, I didn't know we were doing

[48:24] that. I I'm going to give this episode a

[48:28] six. And I only say that as like I love

[48:30] the show and I love these shows and

[48:32] they're really high quality, so I'm

[48:33] going to grade it on a harsher scale.

[48:34] Six isn't even necessarily that bad, but

[48:36] I feel bad giving it. It's just this was

[48:39] not my favorite episode despite some big

[48:43] standout moments throughout. Uh having

[48:45] seen a little bit ahead without getting

[48:47] into spoilers. Uh it gets better in my

[48:49] opinion. Like exponentially better. Um

[48:52] >> you kids you kids ain't ready for

[48:54] Tumbleton. I'll tell you that. I don't

[48:55] know if it's this season or not, but

[48:56] that's a dinger. Har.

[48:59] >> So yeah.

[49:01] >> Uh I think for me I'd probably give it

[49:02] like a 8.5. Um I I agree. It's not like

[49:06] the best episode of the show or

[49:08] anything, but I'm just so happy House of

[49:10] the Dragon is back. [laughter]

[49:13] >> I think I, you know, my my points on

[49:15] this are pretty nitpicky as far as like,

[49:17] you know, why are the the bastard

[49:18] dialogue is kind of heavy-handed.

[49:20] There's no subtlety to it. It's like I

[49:22] want a castle, you know, and they're

[49:23] kind of laying he's the gruff one, and I

[49:25] would have liked to have seen a bit more

[49:26] shades there. But the scale of the

[49:28] battle of the gauntlet, and it makes

[49:29] sense what Cam said about it originally

[49:31] ending the last season, but the scale of

[49:33] that battle and I just think the

[49:34] addition of Raina riding Sheepsteeler

[49:36] and being such a [ __ ] and Jace being

[49:39] so dumb and all of these characters uh

[49:44] running into battle with glory on their

[49:46] mind and obsessing over something uh

[49:49] like what is her name again? I'm sorry,

[49:50] Harriet. The the pirate queen.

[49:52] >> Lowhar.

[49:53] >> Lowhar. Lowhar is the other great

[49:55] example of that. So there's a uniting

[49:56] theme in there. But I agree, we've had

[49:58] the triarchy for three seasons. It would

[50:00] have been nice if they were adapting

[50:02] source material to put Lowhar in much

[50:04] earlier or, you know, you use the crab

[50:06] feeder or whoever else like from those

[50:08] stories so it feels a little bit more

[50:09] united. But no, I I'd probably give it

[50:12] seven, seven and a half or eight because

[50:14] um I don't want this scale every time,

[50:16] but it was sure was a big ass giant fun

[50:19] to watch battle. Uh we've got another

[50:20] super chat here that I think we're going

[50:22] to sign off from Johnny Mashed potatoes.

[50:23] who gave us $2 and said, "Is Jared Leto

[50:26] to blame for the doom of Valyria?"

[50:30] [laughter] I can't blame You can't blame

[50:32] Masters of the Universe on Jar I'll

[50:33] blame anything on Jared Leto, but

[50:34] Masters of the Universe was not his

[50:36] fault. He was one of the best parts of

[50:37] it.

[50:37] >> I don't know. I could definitely picture

[50:40] Skeletor wandering around the burnt out

[50:42] remains of Valyria. Like, that's that

[50:44] picture is so clear. So, I don't want to

[50:46] rule it out is the thing.

[50:48] >> Or a side with Shadowlands. All right,

[50:50] we're going to have to sign off there.

[50:51] Oh [ __ ] Alex, are you still on hold?

[50:53] Are you good?

[50:53] >> Uh, yeah. Oh, no. Actually, um, my mom's

[50:55] here. Hello, mommy.

[50:57] >> Give her a kiss for me, will you? All

[50:59] right, we'll talk to you later. Just a

[51:01] sec.

[51:03] >> We didn't even get into how gross that

[51:06] was and how it was set up for so long.

[51:09] And that's all we got to say. That's

[51:11] that's We'll leave it there. Uh, thanks,

[51:12] Harriet. And you can find Harriet here

[51:14] on the channel. Alex is still here, by

[51:15] the way. Alex, I had to cut him off for

[51:17] the bit. Alex, you can find on the Comic

[51:19] Book Club podcast. Link for that is down

[51:21] below. Thanks so much, Alex.

[51:23] >> Thank you.

[51:24] >> And Harriet's on the channel here all

[51:26] the time writing stuff. Her Game of

[51:27] Thrones costume video is going to come

[51:28] out later. It's It's great. It's one of

[51:30] my favorite videos we've ever done. It's

[51:31] so well researched and so well done. So

[51:33] Harriet, thank you so much.

[51:35] >> Thank you.

[51:35] >> And we want to hear from you guys. Let

[51:37] me know your thoughts on the episode

[51:38] down in the comments below. We're on our

[51:39] free to join Discord server. And if it's

[51:41] your first time here, please subscribe,

[51:42] smash that bell for alerts, and don't

[51:43] forget to shop our Game of Thrones merch

[51:44] at our merch store. For Screen Crush,

[51:46] I'm Ron.

[51:49] [music]

[51:52] Hey.

[51:57] [music]