How Small Creators Land Big Brand Deals (Complete Sponsorship Guide)

[00:00] we're going to be breaking down how

[00:01] small creators can land Big Brand deals

[00:04] and creators of any size it's so so

[00:07] important when you are first engaging

[00:09] with the brand to ask them this question

[00:11] and I'm curious you've generated over $5

[00:13] million in brand Partnerships what's the

[00:16] number one misconception costing

[00:18] creators money right

[00:21] now your pitch has to be relevant to a

[00:24] campaign that the brand is either

[00:25] currently running or has run in the past

[00:27] you can tie your pitch back to organic

[00:30] content that you've already posted that

[00:32] illustrates that your audience has an

[00:34] affinity for their brand or their

[00:35] product in my experience actually the

[00:37] more Niche you are the more

[00:39] opportunities there are these Brands

[00:41] these potential sponsors don't have a

[00:42] lot of places to to spend this cash like

[00:44] nobody else is doing that like this is

[00:47] why people should subscribe to the th

[00:48] media

[00:49] podcast if you want to tap into some of

[00:52] the best Frameworks that will help you

[00:54] negotiate help you raise your rates help

[00:57] you get started if you have a smaller or

[00:59] new channel or if you are a larger

[01:01] Creator help you earn more we're also

[01:04] going to be talking about the

[01:06] counterintuitive pricing strategy that

[01:08] landed a six-figure brand deal a single

[01:11] email template that landed deals with

[01:13] Fortune 500 Brands and how small

[01:16] creators can get paid more than

[01:19] influencers with bigger audiences so

[01:21] stick around until the end for that

[01:23] today's guest is Justin Moore who is a

[01:26] sponsorship coach and the founder of cre

[01:29] Creator wizard he's also the author of

[01:32] the brand new book sponsor magnet and he

[01:35] is a loved guest of the think media

[01:38] podcast and he's back for today's

[01:39] episode Justin welcome to the show dude

[01:42] beloved guests that's a title I I I'm

[01:45] going to claim that title I love that

[01:46] one glad to be back Sean what's going on

[01:48] man well let's go Z to 100 real quick

[01:51] and I'm curious you've generated over $5

[01:53] million in brand Partnerships what's the

[01:56] number one misconception costing

[01:57] creators money right now I think the

[01:59] biggest thing is thinking that the only

[02:02] way in which you can get deals is if you

[02:04] have a certain number of YouTube

[02:07] subscribers or a certain size of your

[02:09] audience if you know my wife and I

[02:11] started our first YouTube channel in

[02:12] 2009 you know as you mentioned we've

[02:14] done millions of dollars worth of deals

[02:16] five over 550 deals actually um and if

[02:20] you looked at our quote unquote

[02:21] influence today it's basically the

[02:24] lowest that's ever been in the last 15

[02:26] years candidly if you looked at our

[02:27] viewership and numbers and all that but

[02:29] we're making the most amount of money

[02:31] that we've ever made each year since

[02:32] then because we know what product we're

[02:36] selling to these Brands the product is

[02:38] not views the product is not reach the

[02:41] product is professionalism they know

[02:43] when they reach out to April and Justin

[02:45] they know what they're going to get

[02:46] we're going to hit every deadline we're

[02:48] going to hit every talking point with a

[02:49] plom if they come back to us with some

[02:51] feedback hey can you revise this you

[02:53] know little 20 seconds here do a new

[02:55] voiceover we say sure I got you no

[02:57] problem and so of all of the deals that

[03:00] we do a huge percentage of them are

[03:01] these recurring relationships that we've

[03:03] developed with Brands and agencies over

[03:06] many years and so if there's one big

[03:08] takeaway that you take from this

[03:09] conversation it's that it's that there's

[03:11] all these other intangible assets that

[03:13] you can hone and develop as a creator

[03:15] that can help you make more money on

[03:17] deals man that's inspiring and that

[03:19] means that there is an opportunity for

[03:21] all of us before I as ask this next

[03:23] question some creators are listening and

[03:25] i' would love for them to know about

[03:27] this idea of nanom micro and like macro

[03:30] influencers and what's possible for

[03:32] channels that are smaller so uh let me

[03:36] share answer that question with a a real

[03:38] story from one of my coaching clients

[03:39] her name is Dr Alex okay so she has a

[03:42] business called digital pathology place

[03:44] so she's a veterinarian a physician uh

[03:47] and she talks all about this really kind

[03:49] of very hyp specific topic of pathology

[03:52] digital pathology and so she is not

[03:54] getting tens of thousands hundreds of

[03:57] thousands of views on her videos on her

[03:59] podcasts episodes she's getting hundreds

[04:01] or thousands but do you know who's in

[04:03] her audience it's the doctors it's the

[04:06] lab techs it's the people who work at

[04:08] these medical device companies and she

[04:10] is absolutely crushing it with brand

[04:12] sponsorships because you know those

[04:14] these companies who are manufacturing

[04:16] the equipment that these people need

[04:17] where do they Market it's really

[04:19] difficult to find out places to deploy

[04:21] their marketing capital and so um you

[04:23] know when you think about kind of these

[04:25] hyp specific creators Niche and you know

[04:27] in these very specific industries that

[04:29] may not seem like I don't know is there

[04:31] any brands that would want to

[04:32] collaborate with me in my experience

[04:34] actually the more Niche you are the more

[04:36] opportunities there are uh because these

[04:39] Brands these potential sponsors don't

[04:40] have a lot of places to to spend this

[04:42] cash that's like one of the quotes of

[04:43] the year the more Niche you are the more

[04:46] opportunities there are it so speaks to

[04:49] just being strategic there's a classic

[04:51] marketing book called positioning like

[04:54] really narrowing in on your position and

[04:57] it's exciting because in the crater

[04:59] economy again I think everyone's chasing

[05:00] a lot of times when we start virality

[05:03] and millions of views but you can make

[05:05] big money with a small Channel and we're

[05:06] going to continue to unpack those

[05:08] strategies but can you actually walk us

[05:10] through the specific pricing strategy

[05:12] that helped Paul Jameson land his six

[05:15] figure sponsorship okay I love it so

[05:17] Paul Jameson is the host of a podcast

[05:21] called the green industry podcast so

[05:23] he's on YouTube he's on social media as

[05:25] well um but what he does you're going to

[05:27] love this Sean he teaches Lawn Care

[05:31] Professionals how to grow their business

[05:33] that's his business and he's doing 120

[05:36] 150,000 downloads a month on his podcast

[05:39] right and he is locking in these huge

[05:42] deals with the likes of Lowe's and John

[05:45] Deere and a lot of these mower companies

[05:47] equipment companies because again where

[05:50] do they if they want to sell these

[05:52] products where can they turn they can

[05:54] advertise in the you know uh prehistoric

[05:57] trade magazines they can try and run you

[06:00] know targeted ads maybe on Facebook

[06:02] that's kind of hard um but you know what

[06:04] they would love to do is they'd love to

[06:06] be able to align thems with the largest

[06:08] voice in their industry who is speaking

[06:10] to those professionals who are buying

[06:12] that equipment and that person is Paul

[06:14] one thing that I think a lot of people

[06:16] uh when they think about a brand deal or

[06:18] they think about a sponsorship they

[06:20] think about oh I'm going to like talk

[06:21] about this brand for 60 to 90 seconds on

[06:23] my YouTube video like an integration

[06:25] right you know the one of the most

[06:26] recent deals that Paul Inked with John

[06:28] Deere

[06:30] they hired him to do a live podcasting

[06:34] session in their booth at the largest

[06:37] trade show in their industry it's called

[06:39] equip it was back in October and they

[06:41] basically he's the largest name and they

[06:43] said hey we want you in our booth for

[06:44] the entire three days so what he did he

[06:47] had all of his friends come through and

[06:48] record episodes he had all the people on

[06:50] the marketing team record episodes from

[06:51] John Deere um and so does that sound

[06:53] like a typical sponsorship not really

[06:56] right um and so I I I hope that this is

[06:59] kind of stretching everyone's

[07:00] imaginations of like what can actually

[07:02] be possible if you develop an expertise

[07:04] in a very specific thing now I'm also

[07:06] curious that's pretty inspiring and it

[07:09] speaks to just the evolution of the

[07:10] Creator economy and things being so much

[07:14] different than we may have think they

[07:15] look we just think it's maybe like one

[07:16] video one payment and that's what it is

[07:20] when you also talk about six figure

[07:22] sponsorships do you encourage people to

[07:25] pursue longer term deals whatever

[07:28] details you can share of that six figure

[07:30] sponsorship of how it might have been

[07:32] structured that could be different than

[07:33] how we would assume yeah so of course

[07:35] like I want to respect Paul's privacy

[07:37] and so he you know I can't talk the

[07:38] exact specifics of like what the deal

[07:40] Dynamics are but rest assured like he's

[07:42] he's doing all sorts of types of deals I

[07:44] would say some that are recurring some

[07:46] that are you know these one-off kind of

[07:48] very large Chun let's like put Paul

[07:51] aside like if there's types long short

[07:55] that you know let's so let's let's

[07:57] actually split hairs real quickly here

[07:58] because the the occurring sponsorships

[08:00] are the dream for anyone regardless of

[08:02] what the Cadence is right just something

[08:04] more than just like a one-off thing um

[08:07] the the challenge with trying to pitch a

[08:09] brand that you've never worked with on a

[08:11] recurring deal is that they have been

[08:14] burned a lot by creators in the past

[08:17] where a creator has promised the world

[08:20] to them and failed to deliver they

[08:21] weren't professional they didn't turn

[08:23] things in on time the work quality was

[08:25] substandard uh and so they're very

[08:27] nervous and before they have any sort of

[08:29] experience working with you it's going

[08:31] to be pretty hard to convince a sponsor

[08:33] to sign on to a 12-month deal with you

[08:35] and so by sincere advices in the

[08:36] beginning just blow their absolute socks

[08:38] off on this first deal uh and then

[08:41] that's when you can Broach this topic of

[08:43] like a a longer term engagement and so

[08:45] once you do illustrate that you're

[08:47] awesome and you had great results from

[08:49] that first partnership um one of the

[08:51] things I talk about is the importance of

[08:53] putting together what's called a post

[08:55] campaign report where you actually are

[08:57] not just sending screenshots to them

[08:59] when they're asking you're saying hey

[09:01] not only am I going to share you the

[09:02] quantitative performance of this

[09:04] campaign but I'm going to share you some

[09:05] qualitative insights that I had hey I

[09:08] actually had people dming me or

[09:10] responding to my email blast that I made

[09:12] about this partnership and they said XYZ

[09:15] I actually and and maybe it was a maybe

[09:16] a neutral or a negative comment it

[09:18] wasn't like oh I love the brand it was

[09:19] like this brand sucks and here's the

[09:21] reason why it sucks you know I and you

[09:23] say hey I got like five comments like

[09:25] that I actually think we should lean

[09:26] into that in another integration

[09:29] together where we lean into this

[09:31] objection that people are having uh

[09:33] about your product and allowing you to

[09:36] say hey oh we actually reformulated the

[09:38] product six months ago like maybe people

[09:40] don't know that let's talk about that in

[09:42] the next version and so a lot of it

[09:43] comes down to actually cycling feedback

[09:45] from your audience back to the brand so

[09:47] you can have some insights what's what

[09:49] to Target for uh some additional

[09:51] engagements every day you want to start

[09:53] your YouTube channel is another day of

[09:55] missed opportunities and untap potential

[09:57] here's the truth YouTube reaches more 18

[10:00] to 49y olds than all the cable networks

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[11:32] recurring sponsorships are the dream but

[11:35] chances are going you know from not

[11:37] knowing the brand or working with them

[11:38] to a reoccurring you don't even know if

[11:41] you want to do it necessarily so that's

[11:43] probably not step one and in a New Year

[11:46] being aware that brands have been burned

[11:49] so also be thinking about okay one of

[11:51] the goals maybe is to Let's lock in

[11:54] something that can essentially be a

[11:55] chance to date each other before we get

[11:57] married for a year and or 6 months and

[12:01] blow their socks off do a post campaign

[12:04] report and then keep the conversation

[12:06] going am I hearing you correctly 100%

[12:09] 100% because again especially when you

[12:11] give them that post campaign report that

[12:13] no other Creator is doing they're going

[12:15] to say wow this person is actually

[12:17] invested in the outcome of what we're

[12:20] trying to accomplish as a brand they're

[12:21] not just in it for the money they also

[12:24] dude you know you know why people don't

[12:25] do this Sean you know why people don't

[12:27] uh come back to the brand with this type

[12:29] of data is they are terrified of asking

[12:32] the brand hey how did it go because

[12:34] they're worried that the brand said hey

[12:36] thanks for asking it was awful you suck

[12:38] we hate you never talk to us again

[12:40] that's what they're were I get it that's

[12:41] what you know oh you didn't drive any

[12:42] sales like don't you know how dare you

[12:44] we want our money back this type of

[12:45] thing in all reality a brand will almost

[12:48] never say that to you um first of all if

[12:50] they say hey it went awesome now is your

[12:53] ticket to say okay great let's do

[12:55] another let's do another campaign

[12:56] together right um but if they say well

[12:59] it just went okay um you know we were

[13:02] hoping it drove more views or more sales

[13:04] or whatever that's your chance to lean

[13:05] into it right um you know the uh Nelson

[13:08] Mandela has this famous quote he said

[13:10] you know I never lose I either win or

[13:13] learn and this is the mindset that you

[13:15] need to take into asking these questions

[13:17] to these Brands um that you're never

[13:19] going to lose you're all you're going to

[13:20] learn something and maybe maybe it'll

[13:22] actually lead to you improving the way

[13:24] in which you actually fulfill these

[13:25] sponsorships Brands I'm curious your

[13:28] take on this

[13:30] some of the things they still do often

[13:32] is they do things like trade shows and

[13:34] they sponsor events and they set up a

[13:36] booth and sometimes because this has

[13:38] happened for us a lot and sometimes like

[13:40] I'm I'm surprised by their expectations

[13:42] you know if we do a physical event they

[13:44] might be willing to pay 5 10 15 20 25

[13:48] $30,000 and they fly their team out and

[13:50] they pay for their team's meals and they

[13:52] pay for their teams hotels and they do

[13:54] all their stuff I'm like this is a

[13:54] pretty big investment and they'll

[13:56] sometimes do this for an event that is

[13:59] 500 people or less 300 people or less

[14:02] and I I am invested in Brands what

[14:05] winning winning looks like for them as

[14:07] I've grown in my career and I found that

[14:09] sometimes like their expectations just

[14:11] trying to affirm what you're saying are

[14:12] like lower than I would think it's

[14:14] sometimes like I don't like directly

[14:17] they're probably not going to make 40

[14:19] Grand necessarily like maybe they're

[14:22] looking at LTV they're looking at Brand

[14:23] awareness but sometimes it's like what

[14:25] are they also in it for they want like

[14:27] photos at the booth they want the

[14:29] association with your brand the longtime

[14:31] term awareness they have a marketing

[14:33] budget to spend an event budget to spend

[14:36] so I guess I'm just trying to say that

[14:37] like if they said it went okay you could

[14:40] tell me maybe deeper insights on this

[14:43] like Roi of sales of course is the thing

[14:45] we're solving for but but then your

[14:47] ability to lean deeper they still might

[14:49] be kind of happy because they got some

[14:50] assets they can use those assets for

[14:52] like a year later and you could leverage

[14:54] off of that to like not be overly

[14:56] stressed I mean because again they can

[14:58] self-define whether they like to work

[14:59] with you or not but lean into it I just

[15:02] am affirming like if you lean into it

[15:04] it's like well let's keep working and

[15:05] like what else could we do for you or

[15:06] what else would make it and and the

[15:08] definition of their win could be broader

[15:10] than like how many views the video got

[15:13] um or what their win could look like

[15:15] next time if you stay creative any

[15:16] thoughts on that observation dude not

[15:19] only is that observation so sound but

[15:22] I've actually codified this which is

[15:24] into something that I call the arc

[15:25] framework so there's three goals that

[15:28] every brand will have when they want to

[15:29] collaborate with you Arc that first is

[15:33] awareness where they are you know have a

[15:36] new campaign uh for a new product that

[15:39] they're launching maybe they were only

[15:41] available in the UK now they're coming

[15:43] to the US or maybe they're running a

[15:44] seasonal promotion that is an awareness

[15:46] focused campaign the r in Arc is

[15:49] repurposing so what you just mentioned

[15:51] may be a big goal of theirs is you know

[15:54] what we don't have a lot of great

[15:55] content that we can post on our

[15:56] platforms on our social media or run for

[15:59] paid advertising man we would love to

[16:01] get uh you know photos videos from

[16:03] growth video live and and be able to

[16:05] repurpose that and show our brand as

[16:07] advocates of the community that's huge

[16:09] for us we would love that uh and then

[16:11] the C in Arc is conversion so it's that

[16:14] last thing you said about yeah we want

[16:15] to drive sales we want to drive leads we

[16:17] want to drive trial signups to our

[16:18] software um and so it's so so important

[16:22] when you were first engaging with a

[16:23] brand to ask them this question what

[16:26] would success look like to you what is

[16:28] your your goal because what you pitch

[16:31] actually actually has to change based on

[16:34] that not only what your pitch has to

[16:35] change but what you charge has to change

[16:37] man that's great um I I want to lean

[16:41] into the repurposing one right now just

[16:43] to kind of go a little bit

[16:45] deeper how should we think about

[16:48] charging and protecting ourselves I

[16:52] think it's one of the last things

[16:53] creators think about is usage rights and

[16:57] perpetuity usage rights

[16:59] so if we're an early Creator sometimes

[17:02] we might

[17:03] think um man the Brand's going to give

[17:05] us 100 bucks 500 bucks $1,000 in free

[17:08] product and it's really cool and that's

[17:10] happening all over the Creator economy

[17:12] for all kinds of small

[17:14] channels

[17:15] and in that we are happy with the deal

[17:18] because you know we're agreeing to it

[17:20] it's a nice upstart but in the contract

[17:23] it

[17:24] says we can use your likeness in this

[17:26] content in perpetuity for

[17:29] 10 Generations you know what I mean like

[17:31] forever literally a thousand years from

[17:34] now we're going to still be able to use

[17:35] this now what's also interesting is

[17:36] there's even some public celebrities

[17:39] that have like they their rights were

[17:42] you know given away when they were doing

[17:43] advertising 10 years ago than their

[17:45] famous movie star now and they're and

[17:48] that company's still leveraging it and

[17:49] and sometimes they can't even do

[17:51] anything about it so it's kind culu simu

[17:54] do you remember the stock photos that

[17:55] Sim mulu did before he was a celebrity

[17:58] and they own the right to that forever

[17:59] now he's a famous movie star isn't he in

[18:01] one of the Marvel movies yeah yeah he

[18:03] was yeah exactly so simu is in one of

[18:06] the Marvel movies super famous now but

[18:09] yet that original stock photos he did he

[18:12] signed away writes I think I want

[18:14] listeners to see you never know who

[18:17] you're going to become uh you never know

[18:20] and and regardless it's your likeness

[18:22] anyways but like you never know how big

[18:24] you'll become you'll never know what

[18:25] your your your usage and rights would be

[18:28] like and then if anything I think

[18:30] there's also something about like I

[18:32] think it'd be very reasonable to give

[18:33] somebody a year two even three cuz in

[18:36] some cases what we're talking about is

[18:37] you don't know how long your career is

[18:38] going to be so you don't know that like

[18:41] you're you're probably not going to be a

[18:43] in Marvel movies in one or two years but

[18:46] you might be in 5 to 10 like the places

[18:50] you could be and so even if a Brand's

[18:54] like we for sure need to use this you're

[18:56] like well 24 months might be a great cap

[18:58] so it's literally not perpetuity is so

[19:00] insane perpet me literally forever is

[19:03] crazy so thoughts on this how you would

[19:05] price different things that you would

[19:07] look for in contracts you know just red

[19:09] flags so you maybe or or just things

[19:11] like easy like I get you want to use

[19:13] this you want to run ads on it that's

[19:14] part of why you're paying me even for

[19:16] maybe ugc too like even if you're just

[19:18] going to use me on your website but do

[19:20] you think capping it at one two years

[19:23] Andor asking for just a higher price and

[19:26] a lot of creators listening to this are

[19:28] afraid to make these push backs because

[19:31] it's like man I don't want to mess up

[19:32] the deal right right so 100% you should

[19:36] be capping the duration of the usage

[19:39] rights for sure because not only as you

[19:43] said could things change a lot uh in you

[19:46] know a relatively short time frame uh

[19:48] but in reality the likelihood that a

[19:50] brand is really going to use this asset

[19:52] of yours forever is super low so being

[19:55] able to educate them they they may just

[19:58] saying well this is standard we get per

[20:00] Perpetual usage rights for everyone they

[20:02] they try to pull this card on you and

[20:04] you say okay well I understand that I

[20:05] respect that um you know in all

[20:07] likelihood this is a seasonal campaign

[20:10] that I'm going to be talking about doing

[20:11] this ugc for you the likelihood of you

[20:13] know you needing this in five years is

[20:16] going to be very unlikely so you know

[20:19] capping it at a year is probably you're

[20:21] going to get a lot of utility out of

[20:22] this for the next year uh and so that

[20:24] should be that should be sufficient I do

[20:26] have actually though a a a rule thumb

[20:29] formula that I talk about in my book

[20:30] sponsor magnet um for pricing these

[20:33] types of things um and so when it comes

[20:35] down to licensing so if the brand is

[20:37] asking to take your content and use it

[20:40] on their platforms on their website on

[20:42] their social media on an e-commerce

[20:44] Partners site or whatever um I I advise

[20:47] charging

[20:48] 15% of the base deal size per 30day

[20:53] period so if they're if they're paying

[20:55] you $10,000 let's say for the content

[20:57] creation as part of this project um then

[20:59] you're going to be charging an

[21:00] incremental

[21:01] $1,500 per 30 days um so that's for

[21:04] licensing however if they want to uh

[21:07] actually leverage the content that you

[21:10] natively post on your platform and

[21:12] amplify it or boost it sometimes called

[21:15] allow listing um this is where you're

[21:17] actually allowing them to basically to

[21:19] get into the back end of your Facebook

[21:21] or Instagram or you're giving them like

[21:22] a spark code it's called on Tik Tok um

[21:25] to run ads basically with the content

[21:27] you posted

[21:29] that's more like 25% of the base deal

[21:31] size so that would be an incremental

[21:33] $2,500 in that example a month and so

[21:36] what you'll quickly see actually is that

[21:38] let's say that they wanted rights for

[21:39] six months you actually might make more

[21:42] money in usage rights than you do in

[21:45] generating the content itself and this

[21:47] is maybe shocking to some people who

[21:48] hear this but this is fairly standard uh

[21:51] in advertising brands are used to paying

[21:54] for a fixed fee for the actual

[21:55] generation of the content but they have

[21:57] to pay the platforms Facebook Instagram

[22:00] YouTube Etc to continue running this ad

[22:02] you know what's interesting is that I um

[22:06] right now we have a a brand that is

[22:08] running ads on an organic YouTube

[22:11] video but you're kind of Shifting my

[22:13] thinking because I was like well we

[22:17] actually make a little bit of AD Revenue

[22:18] off of that and it's actually still to

[22:20] our affiliate

[22:21] links maybe let me tell me tell me if

[22:24] you would in my case if it'd be

[22:26] different I was like sounds like win-win

[22:29] like you're going to drive views on that

[22:31] video up I will get 50% of those dollars

[22:36] in the YouTube Partner program ad

[22:37] revenue and YouTube will get the other

[22:39] 50% they're just probably organic

[22:41] they're clearly organically wanting to

[22:43] push awareness of their product harder

[22:46] than the than the organic reach of my

[22:48] video um and then as a result though the

[22:51] call to action in the videoos to the

[22:53] description so it it is I attribution

[22:57] for affiliate sales is sometimes tough

[22:58] for me uh generally but nevertheless I

[23:01] guarantee it'll drive we already know we

[23:03] can attribute some and will attribute

[23:05] more because they're purely putting you

[23:07] know more paid ads behind that video

[23:10] it's fascinating to me though that you

[23:11] would say that'd be an additional 25%

[23:13] just to allow them to do that so based

[23:15] on my logic would you still say that's

[23:16] the same thing you absolutely should be

[23:18] charging them for the privilege to run

[23:19] ads to your organic content 100% And and

[23:22] in fact this should not be an either or

[23:25] this should be something you negotiate

[23:26] into the deal and say hey in addition to

[23:28] running ads on on this YouTube video

[23:31] which is great awesome great for

[23:32] everyone you should be running ads on

[23:35] you you should you know be running ads

[23:37] on your platforms with this content

[23:39] here's the here's the file here's a 30-

[23:40] second cutdown of it here go run ads on

[23:42] Facebook and Instagram uh you know go

[23:44] buck wild embeding this on your website

[23:46] on e-commerce whatever because they you

[23:49] never know what's going to perform the

[23:50] best this this is the beauty SL curse of

[23:54] advertising is that you never really

[23:55] know where what's going to be the most

[23:57] efficient ad spent what what cut of that

[24:00] asset I could share a quick story here

[24:01] uh when I ran an influencer marketing

[24:03] agency for about seven years uh a very

[24:05] large phone carrier hired our company to

[24:08] uh hire a bunch of creators create some

[24:09] content but the primary reason that they

[24:11] wanted to run this campaign was to get

[24:12] the assets to run for ads and so we got

[24:14] I don't know something 10 to 15

[24:16] different videos and assets from these

[24:17] creators and there was this one video in

[24:19] particular that was super high quality

[24:22] it was like super polished professional

[24:24] beautiful b-roll and I was sure I was

[24:26] like man this video is going to crush as

[24:28] an like this is so beautiful and then we

[24:30] had a smattering of other types of uh

[24:32] creators but then there was this one

[24:33] video that was awful dude it looked like

[24:36] it was shot on a potato it was like on a

[24:37] Nokia like brick phone it was so low

[24:39] quality it was super low res it just was

[24:42] like terrible and guess which one

[24:44] performed better as an

[24:46] ad the baked potato the baked potato bro

[24:50] you you never know like what is going to

[24:52] perform best as an ad and so it's part

[24:54] of this is like educating the brand of

[24:57] it's important to like test different

[24:59] things uh to see which performs the best

[25:01] man that's uh very insightful and some

[25:03] very practical tips in regards to

[25:06] especially licensing it's like a lot of

[25:07] people forget about that ask the brands

[25:10] what they want use the arc formula

[25:12] awareness repurposing and conversion

[25:14] could be their goals getting clear on

[25:16] their goals you've also helped creators

[25:17] land deals with Major Brands can you

[25:19] share the email template that's worked

[25:21] best when working with Fortune 500

[25:24] companies obviously it's going to be

[25:25] verbal whether people watch the video

[25:26] podcast or audio but kind of maybe what

[25:28] what is that outline of that or what's

[25:30] the power of this the subject line

[25:31] things like that all right so uh I teach

[25:34] a a pitching method called the Rope

[25:36] method I talk about it in my book

[25:37] sponsor magnet and basically it's r o p

[25:41] so R stands for your pitch has to be

[25:43] relevant to a campaign that the brand is

[25:45] either currently running or has run in

[25:47] the past o stands for organic meaning

[25:50] that you can tie your pitch back to

[25:51] organic content that you've already

[25:54] posted that illustrates that your

[25:55] audience has an affinity for their brand

[25:58] or product P stands for proof so you can

[26:00] illustrate how you've helped other

[26:01] brands achieve results and E stands for

[26:04] easy to execute when the brand says yeah

[26:06] oh this is interesting what did you have

[26:08] in mind and so the form that this takes

[26:11] so actually should we do a real life

[26:13] teaching example here this might

[26:14] actually make it really tangible for

[26:15] people give me a brand give me a brand

[26:18] Sean that you said oh this is a dream

[26:19] brand for think media I I would love to

[26:21] collaborate one well we've done it

[26:23] before but let's just say we want to

[26:25] re-engage with Canon cameras Canon

[26:28] in this year

[26:31] and we've done some stuff over the past

[26:34] but there's staff

[26:36] changes um they're also they've got a us

[26:39] but they're such a global company that

[26:41] sometimes like and so sometimes too we

[26:44] don't know what their priorities are or

[26:46] what I think their priorities are as far

[26:48] as new cameras or whatever so um that's

[26:52] yeah that's kind of an update so

[26:53] re-engaging with them in our case would

[26:55] be fun okay all right so what I am doing

[26:58] in the background while you were talking

[27:00] about this is I pulled up Canon's

[27:03] Instagram so I'm looking at Canon USA

[27:06] okay actually you know what I'm gonna

[27:07] share my screen here how about that is

[27:08] that fun uh I'm gonna share my screen if

[27:10] you're listening on audio this might be

[27:12] one you would come you know visit the

[27:13] YouTube channel check out the screen

[27:15] share or just listen along and we'll

[27:16] narrate assuming people are also hearing

[27:18] Audio Only okay all right so uh we're

[27:21] here on uh Canon USA's Instagram um and

[27:25] what I'm doing so first of all if you're

[27:27] a YouTuber listen to this and you're

[27:28] thinking I'm not on Instagram I hate

[27:30] Instagram I don't like social media look

[27:33] Instagram is a research tool okay brands

[27:38] are basically telling you what is

[27:39] important to them they're posting about

[27:41] the campaigns and the things that are

[27:42] important to them so you know what I'm

[27:43] going to do uh time of recording you

[27:45] know we're we're recording this in

[27:47] January of 2025 but you know what if we

[27:49] want to pitch Canon we're not going to

[27:51] pitch a New Year resolution you always

[27:54] want to become a photographer get your

[27:55] gear that's that's a campaign that was

[27:57] fully 6 months ago Sean you know we want

[28:00] to be pitching to Canon we want to be

[28:01] pitching spring summer we want to know

[28:04] what were they doing last spring or

[28:06] summer because in all likelihood because

[28:09] in all likelihood they're going to run

[28:10] similar campaigns to that so what I'm

[28:12] doing is I'm scrolling back scrolling

[28:14] scrolling scrolling I'm looking okay

[28:16] what were they talking about last year

[28:18] right so of course they're talking about

[28:19] all sorts of cameras uh that are that

[28:21] are releasing okay what is this harmony

[28:23] at work okay Harmony here we go Harmony

[28:27] there's a URL here here Harmony for

[28:29] every you I'm just going to open that

[28:31] because I don't know what that is but

[28:32] I'm curious I want to find out I'm

[28:34] scrolling scrolling scrolling let's see

[28:36] who's this guy Canon Explorer of light

[28:39] so here's a hashtag that we could go

[28:40] down a rabbit hole and see what that's

[28:42] about um let's see here um fantasy

[28:46] photography I'm also looking okay Canon

[28:48] explor we are we are proud to welcome a

[28:51] new class of storytellers to the Canon

[28:53] Explorer of light program okay so this

[28:54] was in May of 2024 so this looks like

[28:58] they probably identified a group of I

[29:00] don't know based on this video I'm

[29:01] watching maybe six or seven people uh

[29:04] who are in they're inducting and I don't

[29:05] know some sort of incubator maybe

[29:07] accelerator to like you know help them

[29:09] level up their skills potentially um and

[29:12] so you know what your pitch is to them

[29:14] Sean uh wow I loved this Canon Explorer

[29:17] of light program you did last may we

[29:19] were I was curious are you going to be

[29:20] running inducting another class of

[29:23] storytellers into this program in 2025

[29:26] what if we partnered together to help

[29:29] recruit for the application process for

[29:32] this next um group of people we have a

[29:35] huge you know reach on our YouTube

[29:37] channel on our newsletter of aspiring

[29:38] filmmakers and storytellers why don't we

[29:40] partner together to really blow this

[29:42] thing up that's the pitch man it's so

[29:45] genius because then it's also you've

[29:48] um

[29:51] ultimately shown you've done your

[29:53] research they they can tell that you

[29:55] care the answer could be as simple no

[29:58] we're not going to do that again but and

[30:01] and like but you you've built like

[30:04] nobody else is doing that like this is

[30:06] why people should subscribe to the th

[30:08] media podcast because at this moment in

[30:09] the show the kind of gems you get you

[30:11] want to be doing what nobody else is

[30:12] doing thinking how nobody else is

[30:14] thinking and uh it's such a better foot

[30:17] in the door it just people can tell you

[30:19] prepared people can tell you did your

[30:21] research and that's a gangster tip too

[30:23] because to be thoughtful not even just

[30:25] their Instagram it's too late if it's

[30:27] the campaign that's happening now they

[30:29] cooked that up a long time ago but to go

[30:31] back to the the previous year season

[30:33] it's genius dude so so I love what you

[30:37] brought up which is like they may not be

[30:39] into this they may not be doing that

[30:41] program again uh but that's not the

[30:43] point you gave them something tangible

[30:46] that they could react to they could say

[30:48] hey we love your initiative here um you

[30:50] know so going back to the Rope uh the

[30:51] the template right of what you say it's

[30:53] like the r is the relevancy right it's

[30:55] the subject line of this email is #

[30:57] Canon of light in 2025 question mark

[31:01] That's the subject line they're going to

[31:02] open that email they're not going to

[31:03] open 1 million plus subscriber YouTube

[31:06] channel collaboration question mark

[31:08] right where it's like oh I have this

[31:09] many followers of this many subscribers

[31:11] delete ghost they don't know who you are

[31:12] they don't care what's in it for them

[31:14] right the first line is what we just

[31:16] talked about it's about this program and

[31:17] then the O the organic part of this

[31:20] pitch is you're going to link to some

[31:23] sort of uh similar contest giveaway

[31:26] recruitment thing that you guys have

[31:27] done in the past to try to recruit

[31:29] people and by the way if you haven't

[31:31] done something like that in the past

[31:33] Sean people listening might be like well

[31:34] I've never done something like that

[31:35] before that's relevant to this campaign

[31:37] you make a post about it proactively

[31:40] before you pitch them so it may not be

[31:42] super relevant in this scenario but like

[31:44] you could imagine if you're pitching uh

[31:45] a food brand or something and they were

[31:47] talking about a uh you know the

[31:49] Mediterranean diet or something you go

[31:51] back and you make a post about the

[31:52] Mediterranean diet month you get a bunch

[31:54] of amazing feedback engagement from your

[31:56] audience that's awesome and so you see

[31:58] this so it requires a bit of

[32:00] intentionality for your own content

[32:02] strategy knowing that yes it's going to

[32:03] serve my audience of course but it's

[32:05] also going to double as fodder when I

[32:08] pitch this brand because it's relevant

[32:09] to something that they care about as

[32:10] well so that's o p is proof so this is

[32:13] you saying hey happy to share some

[32:15] insights of how I've helped Sony you

[32:17] know achieve results XYZ in this other

[32:19] campaign and then the E easy to execute

[32:22] this is really important it's you're

[32:24] telling them exactly what you're going

[32:25] to do for them you say hey for this

[32:26] Canon explor of light thing

[32:28] we could do three integrated YouTube

[32:30] videos we can do two dedicated email

[32:31] blasts trying to recruit people to apply

[32:33] for your you know this new program uh we

[32:35] can turn this around within 10 days uh

[32:38] are you free on Thursday at 10 a.m. to

[32:39] talk about this so you're you're telling

[32:41] them exactly what you would do it's so

[32:43] much such a good template like and so

[32:46] much more detailed than like hey do

[32:48] y'all work with creators yeah and I know

[32:51] too man it's like I put like people

[32:53] reach out to us at think media like even

[32:56] maybe they want to hey I would love to

[32:58] work for you for free you know for a

[33:00] while or like learn something not

[33:02] realizing that like number one I don't

[33:04] want to sound entitled here but like

[33:06] that's actually more of a burden than it

[33:08] would be a blessing because I don't know

[33:11] what you would do I have to think about

[33:13] that I have to take the energy to to to

[33:15] on board you as a the the reverse could

[33:18] be

[33:19] hey I will edit vertical videos for you

[33:23] for free all I need is like a Dropbox of

[33:26] raw footage or if you're cool if I do on

[33:27] the YouTube channel would you consider

[33:28] reviewing them and and even better here

[33:31] they are and then it's like maybe like

[33:33] sweet that would you know it's like

[33:34] doing the heavy lift and so the fact

[33:36] that relevant to a campaign you look

[33:38] that up from their Instagram or social

[33:40] media or website you look it up a

[33:41] previous year the audience has an

[33:43] affinity to me that's sequencing you

[33:45] said it takes more preparation but this

[33:47] just shows you man how bad do you want

[33:49] it think media podcast are you willing

[33:51] if it's like okay I would love to work

[33:53] with barbecue Brands and I'm I could do

[33:56] electri gills grills gas grills pellet

[33:59] stoves like grills so I already have a

[34:02] grill and I don't have a video yet so

[34:04] I'm going to make one do it awesome even

[34:07] link to it as an affiliate to any brand

[34:09] the brand that you have which could then

[34:12] show proof and maybe you don't need that

[34:14] much proof like Amazon will show you if

[34:16] you make a great YouTube video rank it

[34:19] get some views on it get it popping in

[34:21] the algorithm generate 5 10 15 20 sales

[34:25] over 30 to 60 days screenshot shot your

[34:28] Amazon one of the reasons we actually

[34:30] got a brand deal that was from a super

[34:32] large brand was almost like I don't know

[34:35] why they said yes mean meanly like they

[34:37] here's the key they did not care about

[34:39] performance we just showed them how many

[34:42] how results we'd already gotten in

[34:44] Affiliates and they I I mean I don't

[34:45] know what they were thinking obviously

[34:48] performance still was part of it but it

[34:49] was like they were like oh you've like

[34:51] already like it was like so like they

[34:53] owed us they were like you've already

[34:54] stole plenty of cameras for us like we

[34:57] will just do a deal with you like and so

[35:00] but that was because of doing affiliate

[35:02] marketing first so I love this idea it's

[35:04] kind of like have the proof is also kind

[35:07] of like having a portfolio like organic

[35:09] content your your audience already loves

[35:11] the grill content or the skin care or

[35:12] whatever it is but doing the heavy

[35:15] lifting on the easy to execute like this

[35:18] is a great video so if I was to think

[35:21] about Canon I went to their website and

[35:22] I'm thinking about like the cameras I

[35:24] already love which may not be what they

[35:27] want to promote that's what I've learned

[35:28] is that sometimes they're thinking

[35:29] entirely different than like what I want

[35:31] to promote however because I do know our

[35:34] audience so like the e50 or the r10

[35:36] there's a couple Creator kits on those

[35:38] and like the

[35:40] r10 is just 200 bucks off on their

[35:43] website and it's all in one box for

[35:45] creators with the microphone and

[35:46] whatever else and it's also got 42

[35:48] reviews I'm just looking at you know so

[35:49] I'm like that man that's a good fit for

[35:51] think media now they may and say or

[35:54] something else but it would still show

[35:55] we've done the heavy lift like this is

[35:56] the exact video that that would be

[35:58] inspired we think it' do like this video

[36:00] over here um and it also might tie into

[36:03] this summer campaign you did last year

[36:04] cuz people are thinking about traveling

[36:06] vlogging during the summer whatever else

[36:08] cool and so you just on the heavy lift

[36:10] plus we could email plus we could post

[36:11] on social uh and and then would you also

[36:14] put price and would you say or would you

[36:16] say meet like if you want to discuss

[36:18] this let's meet absolutely you got to

[36:20] you got to get them on a phone call

[36:21] because again uh what what you propose

[36:24] is likely in all in all likelihood not

[36:27] going to be what they want to move

[36:28] forward with they're not going to be

[36:28] like okay where do I sign it's going to

[36:30] be more like a conversation like hey I I

[36:32] love these pieces of the of the idea but

[36:35] we want this a little bit differently

[36:36] over here and so it has to turn into a

[36:38] conversation um because you can't price

[36:40] yourself in a vacuum you have to know

[36:41] again what their goals are what are

[36:43] their objectives are um that this is

[36:45] part of probably a whole other

[36:46] conversation about pricing um but but

[36:48] real quickly I wanted to uh book in this

[36:51] topic around the pitch um and and help

[36:54] help everyone listening and watching

[36:56] understand that it's not just this this

[36:58] doesn't just work for social media this

[37:00] doesn't just work for you know

[37:03] collaborating on you know YouTube and

[37:04] Instagram and podcast and stuff like

[37:06] that this is a universal pitching

[37:08] framework that works regardless of where

[37:10] your influence is heck I am you know

[37:12] launching my very first in-person event

[37:14] in March in San Antonio and I am

[37:16] currently pitching Brands to sponsor the

[37:18] event right so you know events are like

[37:20] a you're getting sponsors to events is

[37:22] like a big way in which conference

[37:23] organizers and event or organizers are

[37:25] able to make uh those things profitable

[37:27] or at least not lose a bunch of money um

[37:29] and so you have to apply the same

[37:32] principle to your pitches when it comes

[37:33] to events a lot of people think like oh

[37:35] here's the gold you know silver you know

[37:37] Platinum package for you know pick one

[37:39] to sponsor our event no it's all about

[37:42] how do you convince the sponsor that

[37:43] you're going to help them accomplish

[37:44] their business objectives by showing up

[37:46] and sponsoring your event so you lead

[37:48] with hey I I it seems like this thing is

[37:51] really important to you in q1 or Q2

[37:53] here's how we can integrate that into

[37:55] the event so that you can the needle on

[37:58] that like kpi or that key performance

[38:00] indicator that you have for a company so

[38:02] this is a a universal uh piece of advice

[38:04] regardless of like where you've built

[38:06] your influence man it's powerful advice

[38:08] now I do want to touch on I think

[38:12] another framework that we could go a

[38:15] little deeper on the do rule in a second

[38:17] you've already shared the arc framework

[38:19] and the Rope method with us um and then

[38:21] a few other questions towards the end of

[38:23] the episode but I want to ask you've

[38:25] helped smaller creators outperform big

[38:27] accounts

[38:28] what do you think what is like the key

[38:30] strategy for commanding higher rates

[38:31] with a small audience dude just be nice

[38:34] be polite be professional turn stuff in

[38:37] on time bro you know how many times when

[38:39] I when I ran the agency you know how

[38:40] many times we hired a creator that is

[38:41] twice as expensive and and smaller

[38:44] because we' worked with them in the past

[38:45] and we knew that they were professional

[38:47] and good and not a diva or dvo and

[38:50] anytime we came back to them with a

[38:51] small little you know edit request oh

[38:53] yeah no problem I got you um you know

[38:55] how many times we hired those people

[38:57] over the bigger footprint Creator a huge

[39:00] amount of times huge amount of times and

[39:02] so again uh I know that this feels like

[39:04] maybe TR advice but it's true this is

[39:06] this is real there's human beings on the

[39:09] other end of these Brands I think

[39:10] sometimes we look at them as these

[39:12] amorphous entities oh it's a brand

[39:14] they're they're huge and and you know

[39:15] you know they're so professional and all

[39:17] this but it's like it's a person and

[39:18] they want to enjoy their day-to-day life

[39:21] and so they want to work with also

[39:23] people and so if you can treat them like

[39:25] humans that goes so far dude really does

[39:28] yeah that's so powerful and man this

[39:29] whole professional I think that it's

[39:31] it's tough in the crater economy but I

[39:34] think about this in any business I got a

[39:35] friend running a roofing company and he

[39:40] uh I mean it's the eight figureure

[39:41] roofing company scaled it up over the

[39:43] years and he he came from the background

[39:46] of almost being like

[39:49] broke on drugs struggling family issues

[39:54] and now like has built up and I I think

[39:57] his commitment in life has been like

[39:59] it's kind of been like Excellence it's

[40:01] like turning pro and he's like his

[40:05] approach towards then his health his

[40:06] approached towards his business he's

[40:08] starting to create content now but one

[40:10] of the things he told me was he was like

[40:12] um our sales reps and stuff we show up

[40:15] with the polo on and the logo the iPad

[40:18] and a presentation that runs them

[40:20] through what they're going to get text

[40:23] message followup and phone calls when

[40:27] the consultant or the person who's going

[40:29] to coach him on the roof is on the way M

[40:32] hey scheduling your call for tomorrow

[40:34] awesome we're 15 minutes out hey like

[40:38] and he's leveraging technology to do it

[40:41] so he's also and he's like no other

[40:44] roofing companies and and and competitor

[40:46] roofing companies are they may be doing

[40:49] 1 two three million a year Topline

[40:51] Revenue but they're struggling they're

[40:53] they're kind of like they're sort of

[40:55] stuck and one of the reason they're

[40:57] stuck is be is just because of a lack of

[41:00] strong brand strong professionalism

[41:02] because it's kind of ma and PAW I

[41:05] encourage listeners it's kind of a

[41:06] different mindset like why can't you be

[41:08] thinking big in small places don't let

[41:11] your small YouTube channel make you

[41:12] small-minded what would it look like to

[41:14] turn your professionalism up your brand

[41:17] your dress how you're showing up on

[41:20] calls how you're showing up and maybe it

[41:22] is it's your your logo your

[41:24] professionalism listen we're all about

[41:26] punch fear in the face press record

[41:28] start with what you have get 1% better

[41:30] with every upload but the pursuit of

[41:32] mastering the pursuit of Excellence is a

[41:34] lifelong Pursuit and and you just say

[41:37] then it's kindness professional it makes

[41:39] me think customer service I got a friend

[41:41] in in Las Vegas Rachel sne who runs

[41:44] wedding chapels and she carries that

[41:48] Spirit of Excellence it's like this this

[41:51] like biblical Spirit of Daniel in the

[41:53] Book of Daniel was like he he had an

[41:55] excellent Spirit like and it it was like

[41:57] an excellent and it was customer service

[42:00] how people are treated and you know

[42:03] what's crazy and I think you'd agree

[42:04] with this Justin

[42:06] 99% just won't ever do this so it's

[42:09] really not that hard to stand out and be

[42:12] extra ordinary because ordinary is so

[42:16] common meaning like I if I'm retail

[42:20] shopping chances are I walk in and this

[42:24] girl's got she's like smacking her gum

[42:26] and like twisting it in her bonqueque

[42:29] nails looking at her phone like you need

[42:32] anything even if she acknowledges me you

[42:35] know this is not even a real situation

[42:37] although Ma I'm I try to make it the

[42:39] story funny but I mean it's true like

[42:41] I'm just like but go in the customer

[42:43] service person doesn't even acknowledge

[42:44] you or they give you a half-hearted

[42:47] thank you or or you know welcome or you

[42:49] go into a restaurant it's not clean you

[42:51] go in service is bad and you kind of

[42:53] tolerate it you're just like that's kind

[42:54] of just what it is you're like I'm

[42:56] probably not going to be acknowledged

[42:59] appreciated thanked walk around the

[43:02] counter shake my hand you know as you

[43:06] leave that's rare you know so anyways it

[43:09] to me it's kind of like can you go go a

[43:11] little bit deeper on that being nice

[43:13] being

[43:14] professional it goes a long way because

[43:16] also people are on the other side of

[43:18] these

[43:19] Brands 100% man and like you said the

[43:22] bar is super low and you know what I do

[43:24] not anyone listening or watching I don't

[43:25] fault you for this you want to know why

[43:27] why because a lot of us especially if

[43:29] you have been privileged to you know

[43:31] start deriving an income from this maybe

[43:34] you've never had a quote unquote real

[43:37] job maybe you came out of school and you

[43:39] were fortunate enough to you know start

[43:41] making money from your from your you

[43:43] know Social Media stuff um you never

[43:46] understood what it was like in a

[43:47] corporate environment and what's

[43:49] expected and um those kind of things you

[43:52] might learn uh at at a normal 9 to5 UM

[43:55] you're kind of learning this on the Fly

[43:57] so I totally commiserate with you and

[43:59] understand um but that's why it's so

[44:01] important to educate yourself around

[44:02] what it actually takes to be

[44:03] professional um and I I actually think

[44:06] this is a blessing I think I hope this

[44:07] is an exciting prospect for people

[44:10] because it means that you know it's not

[44:13] just about the numbers it's not just

[44:14] about the views it's not just about the

[44:15] subscribers it's also about uh your

[44:18] level of customer service when you

[44:19] collaborate with these Brands and it

[44:20] goes long way I love this well before we

[44:24] go into a few more strategic questions

[44:25] it's some of the best stuff actually I

[44:27] think that we're about to hit I do

[44:29] you've got a new book sponsor magnet it

[44:32] also is on pre-order or maybe it's out

[44:34] by the time you see this episode and if

[44:38] you um go to the

[44:41] website and we'll make sure that's in

[44:43] the the show notes people can get some

[44:45] other cool stuff like 15 negotiation

[44:48] scripts which is priceless and you've

[44:51] got uh a bunch of other cool things give

[44:54] us just a quick overview of the book

[44:55] before we get to a few final questions

[44:57] Yeah man so uh you know I briefly

[44:59] mentioned this but you know my wife and

[45:01] I have been creators for over 15 years

[45:03] started our first YouTube channel in

[45:04] 2019 so we've done hundreds and hundreds

[45:07] of deals oursel but also I ran this

[45:08] Agency for many years um and that I

[45:11] think has afforded me a pretty unique

[45:13] perspective to kind of behind the scenes

[45:15] of what's actually happening at these

[45:16] Brands um and what they're saying behind

[45:19] closed doors about creators and why

[45:20] they're passing on you and hiring other

[45:23] people instead and so I've really kind

[45:24] of distilled the last basically 15 years

[45:27] of experience into this book um and I

[45:29] just I don't I think it's the first book

[45:31] of its kind I don't I I think that some

[45:33] uh it's there's been a hunger for this

[45:35] type of knowledge um and I'm very very

[45:39] excited about finally getting it out

[45:41] into the universe because um I really do

[45:43] feel it's going to impact a lot of

[45:44] people's lives and businesses quite

[45:46] profoundly and so um yeah it's

[45:48] everything that I know I basically talk

[45:49] about my eight-step sponsorship wheel

[45:52] methodology uh which is uh basically

[45:55] walking you through the pitch the

[45:57] negotiation contracts the concept uh the

[46:00] feedback the or the production the

[46:02] feedback the publication and the

[46:04] analysis so those are the eight steps um

[46:07] and how important it is to actually have

[46:09] a system uh to turn sponsorships into a

[46:11] predictable income so um I think it's

[46:13] going to be uh a pretty exciting thing

[46:16] for a lot of people we don't rise to the

[46:17] level of our goals we fall to the level

[46:19] of our systems systems are the secret

[46:21] and it's one thing to do one a oneoff

[46:24] deal and get lucky it's a whole another

[46:25] thing to turn this into a systematic

[46:27] business and the creators who truly last

[46:31] even get liftoff let alone last are

[46:33] going to lean into systems that's a

[46:35] Priceless investment books are one of

[46:36] the best investment you could ever get

[46:38] I'm not trying to I don't even have an

[46:39] affiliate link or anything I just want

[46:40] to encourage people to pick up the book

[46:42] if you use the link in the description

[46:43] it's best on your website right it's

[46:45] going to be on Amazon eventually or it

[46:46] is yep it's going to be everywhere at

[46:48] launch but uh yeah sponsor magnet.com is

[46:50] the best place amazing so yeah you can

[46:52] check that out in in uh and if you are a

[46:54] serious Creator it's a no-brainer to

[46:55] invest in resources like this obviously

[46:58] one couple hundred brand deal $100 brand

[47:01] deal would pay for the investment and uh

[47:03] no matter what size of Channel you are

[47:05] thinking about the wisdom you could get

[47:07] there now there's one other framework we

[47:10] did touch on it earlier speaking about

[47:12] like used's rights but it's the uh due

[47:15] rule briefly hit this yeah so real

[47:19] quickly I call it the do rule it's

[47:21] deliverables usage rights and

[47:23] exclusivity so the deliverables one is

[47:25] easy is like when you're Nea with the

[47:27] brand and they say oh we'd love to

[47:28] collaborate a couple of posts like it

[47:30] would be awesome no you need to know

[47:32] exactly what you need to do is it going

[47:34] to be an integrated video is it going to

[47:35] be a dedicated video how many videos is

[47:37] it going to be do you have to do

[47:38] community posts are they going to be

[47:39] asking for that uh you have to scope the

[47:41] deal properly so you know what level of

[47:43] work is actually going to be required of

[47:45] you uh the usage rights we talked about

[47:46] so that's the U in terms of

[47:48] understanding whether it's just organic

[47:49] usage rights meaning that they can

[47:51] reshare it on their platforms um or do

[47:54] they want to run paid advertising to it

[47:56] which is which is you should be

[47:57] compensated for that right uh and then

[47:59] this last one we actually didn't talk

[48:00] about much which was exclusivity uh is

[48:03] hey are they saying that you cannot uh

[48:05] work with any of our competitors for a

[48:06] certain duration um because this has a

[48:09] real this is like a real meaningful uh

[48:11] like you know dollar and cense impact to

[48:13] your wallet uh if you don't uh consider

[48:16] this I could share a quick story a

[48:18] creator that I I've coached um agreed to

[48:21] five years of exclusivity for a free

[48:25] mattress they weren't even paid they

[48:28] didn't even get paid they just got a

[48:29] free mattress and didn't realize that

[48:32] that was the deal that they had signed

[48:33] and so like a year or two after that

[48:35] they were about to you know sign a deal

[48:37] with another you know Casper or whatever

[48:39] another mattress company um and realized

[48:42] looking at Contract yeah realiz and they

[48:45] were just like oh my God so this has

[48:47] like a material impact on your life and

[48:49] your business and so this stuff matters

[48:51] like you really need to understand

[48:52] before you enter the into these

[48:54] agreements um and ensure you're

[48:56] protected

[48:57] well you know it's funny too because

[48:58] five years also could have been fine if

[49:01] it was like a million dollars you know

[49:02] what I mean you know or even six figures

[49:04] depending on if this channel is small

[49:05] you go okay you just calculate it out

[49:07] like you know um but definitely like

[49:10] reading the fine print even on a free

[49:13] product which un must means they sign a

[49:15] contract for the free

[49:17] product read your contracts now this is

[49:19] something I've been learning of course

[49:21] AI is not legal advice but

[49:25] AI is really changing the game when it

[49:28] comes to lawyers and I I hope this

[49:30] encourages people like you know one we

[49:34] now consistently are hiring lawyers at

[49:37] think media at the size of company we

[49:39] are whether that's on the employee side

[49:41] or contract side uh in brand deals

[49:44] because it's worth reviewing especially

[49:46] if the brand deal is large and most you

[49:48] know lawyers could cost 300 bucks an

[49:50] hour or 500 bucks an hour or $1,000 an

[49:53] hour and if it takes them an hour to

[49:55] reveal your contract you're listening to

[49:56] this you're like that I just not even

[49:57] I'm not even in that ball game what's so

[49:59] crazy and I saw a big Twitter threat

[50:01] about this is the legal advice from AI

[50:06] is oftentimes Superior than actually a

[50:08] conversation with an attorney and one

[50:10] person joked and said uh I want to offer

[50:14] to hire an

[50:15] attorney contingent on me first getting

[50:19] advice from AI putting it in a sealed

[50:21] envelope listening to what they have to

[50:22] say and if it's not Superior to what's

[50:24] in the sealed envelope then I get my

[50:26] money back right don't pay

[50:27] them and uh you know kind of a funny

[50:30] thought exercise I don't know if the

[50:31] attorney would agree to that but what's

[50:33] cool like you also just might be able to

[50:35] save time Andor like and it's as simple

[50:38] as Pace contract in Ai and say what are

[50:41] the red

[50:42] flags and that could I just did one and

[50:46] it was and so I decided not to hire an

[50:48] attorney I wasn't that stressed about

[50:50] the whole thing but it gave me like six

[50:53] things to consider and also cuz I'm an

[50:55] impatient person number one if I read it

[50:57] I'm going to start going dyslexic and

[50:59] start like getting like oh I don't even

[51:01] know and I don't care but man if I've

[51:03] learned you need to know and care you're

[51:05] saying it you don't want to give five

[51:06] years of you know and so AI could just

[51:08] prompt you and say do you really want to

[51:10] give five years of exclusive rights you

[51:12] might be like and then you can ask

[51:14] questions what does that mean what does

[51:16] exclusive mean and so uh it's you know a

[51:20] new year I think leaning into that as as

[51:23] you start looking at any contracts it's

[51:24] it takes well this living in an where

[51:26] the old Shawn was probably just going to

[51:28] be taken advantage of the new Shawn at

[51:32] least is actually running everything

[51:34] through Ai and um and then to that point

[51:37] like not to go crazy deep on this but

[51:39] sometimes States and different places

[51:41] like it might say like well this is

[51:42] they're from Texas and the laws in

[51:45] Washington or and that's kind of why

[51:47] like you could get such a broader

[51:48] perspective because we're dealing with a

[51:50] large language model that can be

[51:52] actually pretty updated now then again

[51:53] of course the disclaimer is it's not

[51:56] actually legal advice and you AI can

[51:59] hallucinate and it might not be accurate

[52:02] but at least you you could avoid some

[52:04] things and creators

[52:06] are known to get it taken advantage of

[52:10] just kind of like musicians that get

[52:12] taken advantage of by record labels

[52:14] because we are creative we we want to

[52:17] just focus on the video and do the art

[52:18] and the reading and analyzing a contract

[52:21] is the most stressful and like and and

[52:24] so unfortunately

[52:26] whether intentional or not Brands take

[52:28] advantage of that you know or they just

[52:30] they have their standard thing that'd be

[52:32] another thing and you can affirm or

[52:34] challenge anything I'm saying here I

[52:37] think I had I had a lot of fear about

[52:39] pushing back and but I've realized even

[52:42] with some of our growth video speakers

[52:43] some of our whatever the initial

[52:46] contract that'll come from a brand

[52:48] that'll come from a person that'll come

[52:50] from a business a lot of times it

[52:52] doesn't even mean they're malicious it's

[52:53] just going to be written so heavily in

[52:55] their favor they just I might as well

[52:57] get all of this stuff so they just throw

[52:59] it in there and so then we review it and

[53:03] it's like this is kind of crazy like

[53:05] this and then we push back and they're

[53:07] like yeah no yeah no problem we we'll

[53:08] red line that out yeah we'll fix it no

[53:10] big deal um and so it's just like cuz it

[53:14] doesn't even mean that they would do

[53:16] everything that they said in there it's

[53:17] just their standard contract which is

[53:19] probably crazily weighted towards them

[53:23] and so slow down take a beat take a

[53:25] breath and realize that small creators

[53:29] now kind of have a new advantage that

[53:30] didn't want to exist doesn't you don't

[53:32] need a big budget to start being a lot

[53:34] smarter when it comes to some of these

[53:36] professional areas of brand deals 100%

[53:40] dude I mean I totally agree if possible

[53:43] always should try to you know hire uh

[53:45] legal uh you know uh professional to

[53:48] review your contracts but AI can do a

[53:50] great job at like you said pulling out

[53:52] just the plain English of like hey what

[53:55] should I care about what are the red

[53:56] flags in fact you could take some of the

[53:58] red flags I talk about in the contract

[53:59] section of the book and just put it in

[54:01] there and say hey remember this every

[54:03] time I send you a contract measure it up

[54:05] against these like 12 things that I I

[54:08] need to care about as a Creator and tell

[54:10] me if any there's any red flags here

[54:12] yeah that's genius well this has been a

[54:13] powerful episode I'm excited to have you

[54:15] back later this year as we always get an

[54:17] update as it pertains to Brands and

[54:19] brand

[54:20] sponsorships um you already kind of

[54:22] shouted it out but lastly if people want

[54:23] to follow you get your resources the

[54:25] book uh where can they follow yeah

[54:26] sponsor magnet.com uh that's the best

[54:29] place uh I appreciate you know each and

[54:31] every one of you who help spread the

[54:33] word about the book honestly I I feel as

[54:34] though uh I have a duty to kind of

[54:36] educate the next generation of creators

[54:38] and I just there's no way I'm going to

[54:39] be able to do it without Word of Mouth

[54:41] and so I think I did the hard part which

[54:43] was write a damn good book um and so now

[54:45] I'm now it's the the the fun part which

[54:47] is uh telling the world about it well

[54:49] that's uh amazing and thick media

[54:51] podcast like rate review share the

[54:54] podcast wherever you watch or listen

[54:56] and my name is Sean Kel you're guide to

[54:59] building a profitable YouTube channel

[55:01] and we'll catch you in a future episode