The (bad) way people and dogs eat (LIVE PODCAST, E56)

[00:02] Hello beautiful community.

[00:05] He said doing his best Vlad Wexler.

[00:09] Can you hear me?

[00:13] Can people at chat hear me?

[00:15] Give me a thumbs up or a thumbs down,

[00:17] please.

[00:19] Can you hear me?

[00:23] All right, I see one person saying yes.

[00:25] I see only one person saying no.

[00:31] Got it.

[00:32] Okay, I think we are rolling and that is

[00:35] terribly exciting.

[00:37] Thanks everybody for your patience. So,

[00:39] the problem if you care was that I had a

[00:43] I had another camera app open on my

[00:45] computer just to get a preview

[00:47] um and it was interfering with the

[00:50] routing to YouTube.

[00:52] If you care.

[00:54] But you probably don't.

[00:56] So, let's start talking about things you

[00:59] do care about.

[01:01] Oh, Pop-Tart. No, no, no. Hey, come

[01:02] back.

[01:04] Hey, this is this is your show. Hey,

[01:05] come on. Pop-Tart, come on.

[01:08] Oh, yeah. I prepared for this. Come on,

[01:10] you got to be here for the beginning.

[01:11] Come on. Up, up, up, up.

[01:13] Okay.

[01:14] All right, sit.

[01:16] Thank you.

[01:17] Okay.

[01:19] You feel good?

[01:20] You ready for this? All right, I'm ready

[01:21] for it.

[01:24] All right.

[01:29] Sh- sh- sh- sh- sh- sh- sh- sh- sh- sh-

[01:30] sh- sh- sh-

[01:33] Good seeing y'all.

[01:37] All right.

[01:38] How you doing? You ready? You ready to

[01:40] do this? All right, let's do this. Okay.

[01:42] It's the Adam Ragusea podcast episode 56

[01:45] coming to you from the couch in my

[01:48] wife's home office, which is one of the

[01:50] spots where we usually hang out with

[01:52] Pop-Tart, the Labrador Retriever. She's

[01:55] here on the couch with me right now.

[01:58] She's uh

[01:59] not quite a year old and yes, her name

[02:02] really is Pop-Tart.

[02:04] We let the kids name her and I do think

[02:06] that Pop-Tart is a great name for a dog.

[02:09] Though it puts me in a fraught position

[02:12] vis-à-vis the Kellogg's company, maker

[02:15] of the toaster pastry product marketed

[02:18] as a Pop-Tart. Right here. You want

[02:20] another one? Come on, dog. Over here.

[02:22] You guys stay in the camera frame. Over

[02:23] here. Come on. It's right in front of

[02:25] you, dog. Aw, there you go. Sit.

[02:29] So, I feel like someone in my position,

[02:32] if I was going to have a dog named

[02:34] Pop-Tart,

[02:36] I I really should have tried to get some

[02:38] like fat corporate dollars for that.

[02:40] Like I should have unleashed my agent,

[02:43] Colin the Best West, to see if he could,

[02:46] you know, shake some money out of the

[02:48] C-suite up in Battle Creek, Michigan

[02:50] for uh you know, naming rights for Adam

[02:53] Ragusea's new dog. Or at the very least,

[02:56] we could have uh secured some

[02:57] permissions.

[02:59] Cuz yeah, I don't know if Kellogg's is

[03:01] going to sue me for using their

[03:03] trademark in reference to a dog in

[03:05] published works such as this. I'm not

[03:08] sure if they could legally sue me and in

[03:10] our defense, we do style the name

[03:12] Pop-Tart in reference to the dog as all

[03:15] one word, capital P at the beginning.

[03:18] And that's all. In contrast, the name

[03:21] of, you know, Pop-Tart brand toaster

[03:23] pastries is styled as two words,

[03:26] hyphenated with the first P in pop

[03:29] capitalized and the first T in tarts

[03:32] capitalized and

[03:34] the name of the product itself is

[03:35] pluralized. They are officially

[03:37] Pop-Tarts plural.

[03:40] Pop-Tart the dog is singular, all one

[03:43] word and only the initial P is

[03:45] capitalized the way that we style that

[03:48] around here. I mention that so that

[03:50] everybody in the live chat can style

[03:52] Pop-Tarts correctly, which I'm sure you

[03:54] all will. We are recording this episode

[03:57] of the Adam Ragusea podcast live on

[03:59] YouTube. So, there are people in the

[04:01] chat box right now. Hi, everybody.

[04:04] I'm going to talk about dogs and food

[04:07] for like 20 minutes before I start

[04:09] engaging with folks in the chat

[04:12] for the remainder of the episode. Uh I

[04:14] will read audience questions and

[04:15] comments from the live chat, but

[04:18] hold your fire. I will not be looking at

[04:20] anything in the chat for another 20

[04:22] minutes or so.

[04:24] So, if you're there, you know, feel free

[04:25] to chat with each other, but don't say

[04:27] or ask anything expecting me to like see

[04:31] it and respond to it. Yeah. So, anyway,

[04:33] dogs and food. It's okay, you can go.

[04:36] You can go. You're done. You did your

[04:37] job.

[04:38] Okay. What what?

[04:40] I have nothing else. Well, that's a lie.

[04:41] I've got something else if if necessary,

[04:43] but uh

[04:44] dogs and food. This is not going to be a

[04:46] rap about uh

[04:49] you know, dog food. It's about food and

[04:51] uh and dogs.

[04:53] Hello. Oh my goodness. Yes. Is it so

[04:55] interesting to you? Okay, here. I've got

[04:57] another one.

[04:58] Here, come on up. Come on.

[05:01] So, you may have seen lately a

[05:02] bioethicist

[05:04] named uh Dr. Jessica Pierce talking

[05:07] about pet happiness in the news. Dr.

[05:11] Pierce writes a blog about pet-related

[05:13] issues for Psychology Today, which is a

[05:17] magazine that I grew up around because

[05:19] my dad is a clinical psychologist, so we

[05:21] always, you know, got Psychology Today

[05:23] at the house.

[05:24] But, uh Jessica Pierce has a number of

[05:27] books and, you know, scholarly articles

[05:29] and stuff out there talking about the

[05:31] ethics of pet ownership. Oh, you're

[05:33] going to be over there? Do I have to

[05:35] reframe the shot for you, dog?

[05:38] See, these these are my placards for the

[05:40] sponsorship segments. Okay, come on.

[05:43] Here.

[05:44] I'll move everything over here, okay?

[05:45] And you can just stay right there.

[05:48] Right. You good?

[05:50] You good? Okay, let's proceed.

[05:52] So, uh Jessica Pierce, Dr. Jessica

[05:54] Pierce, uh scholar, ethicist, uh

[05:56] bioethicist, has a number of books and

[05:59] scholarly articles about the ethics of

[06:01] pet ownership and how those ethical

[06:04] questions kind of intersect with the uh

[06:07] you know, animal cognition and

[06:09] interspecies communication stuff that

[06:11] people study. And uh Jessica Pierce, Dr.

[06:14] Pierce, was the primary source for a Vox

[06:17] article that you may have seen published

[06:18] recently called the case against pet

[06:21] ownership. Uh that article was by a

[06:24] fella named Kenny Terrell. Hope I'm

[06:27] saying that right. Uh Kenny writes about

[06:29] animal issues for Vox with a focus on

[06:31] like meat and meat alternatives. And I

[06:33] gather that Kenny's piece was a big hit.

[06:35] And so, Dr. Jessica Pierce, the primary

[06:37] source for that article, has been making

[06:40] the rounds lately, right? She's I heard

[06:42] her on uh an NPR show called Here and

[06:45] Now, which is uh that's US public radio,

[06:48] you know? I used to work on the other

[06:50] side of the cubicle wall from where Here

[06:53] and Now is produced in Boston.

[06:55] And I always loved how the show's

[06:57] producers used to just like yell and

[07:00] scream at each other in order to get

[07:02] their show on the air every day because

[07:04] a daily live legacy broadcast program

[07:07] only persists as a result of just a

[07:10] series of minor miracles simply willed

[07:13] into being by the producers and the

[07:15] editors who make the show possible.

[07:17] Anyway, I loved listening to Here and

[07:19] Now scream at each other in the lead-up

[07:22] to showtime. Here, you want this dog?

[07:24] Come on.

[07:25] One one I've got one more. Come on up.

[07:27] Used to love listening to the Here and

[07:29] Now folks

[07:31] scream at each other in the lead-up to

[07:32] their show. And then immediately after

[07:34] showtime, they would go back to loving

[07:36] each other like siblings again.

[07:38] And that's how you know the the the

[07:39] leaders of the program have fostered

[07:41] like a really good, you know,

[07:42] team-building environment so that

[07:45] people, you know, love and trust each

[07:47] other enough to yell at each other like

[07:49] they're family

[07:51] when necessary. Though certainly,

[07:53] yelling is less necessary and less often

[07:56] necessary than most of us tend to

[07:58] imagine that it is in the heat of the

[07:59] moment. That's an important thing to

[08:01] keep in mind. Anyway, dogs. Dr. Jessica

[08:03] Pierce,

[08:04] her basic argument, if she'll forgive me

[08:06] for summarizing it crudely, her basic

[08:09] argument is that based on everything we

[08:11] know about like animal cognition and

[08:13] emotions and social structure and

[08:17] instincts and all of that, her argument

[08:20] is that our pets, and particularly our

[08:22] dogs, are probably not as happy as we

[08:26] imagine them to be. They may in fact be

[08:29] among the most miserable animals on

[08:32] Earth for the bulk of their lives. I

[08:35] mean, we imagine the life of a house dog

[08:37] to be exceptionally sweet.

[08:39] Who would not want to laze on a couch

[08:41] all day with their best friend?

[08:44] Hey, that's you and me.

[08:47] Seems like a much nicer life compared to

[08:49] the violence and deprivation, no doubt,

[08:52] suffered by a dog out on the street.

[08:55] But I remember back when we lived in

[08:57] Macon Georgia

[09:00] which was one dog ago. That was your

[09:02] forerunner, Pop-Tart, lived with us in

[09:04] Macon.

[09:05] I just used to drive through this very,

[09:08] very poor neighborhood near my house in

[09:10] Macon where there were just legions of

[09:14] street dogs.

[09:16] Like if you've if you've only ever been

[09:17] to the northern United States, you don't

[09:20] know how bad the stray dog problem is in

[09:22] the southern US and in cities

[09:24] specifically, especially poor poor ones.

[09:26] There's just more people poor poor

[09:28] people in the south and there's more

[09:30] rural people in the south and, you know,

[09:32] even when they live in cities, they are

[09:34] often in the south generationally closer

[09:37] to life on the farm, where people are a

[09:40] lot less precious about their dogs. You

[09:42] know, you may own a dog,

[09:45] but the dog lives like a free life,

[09:48] roaming around and doing whatever dog

[09:50] stuff the dog wants to do most of the

[09:52] day, which may include making puppies

[09:54] with another dog. Poor people may be

[09:57] less likely to sterilize their dogs,

[09:59] spay and neuter them, because that, you

[10:00] know, costs money.

[10:02] Oh, did I say the bad word?

[10:04] Sorry, it's still a fresh memory.

[10:06] Mhm, close your ears.

[10:11] There's uh there's just more poor people

[10:13] in the South, more rural people in the

[10:14] South, and, you know, it affects these

[10:16] things and

[10:17] and uh you're just more likely to have

[10:19] stray dogs leaking out of the human

[10:22] systems here in the South. And once

[10:23] they're out, their odds of survival are

[10:26] pretty darn good compared to the odds

[10:29] faced by a stray dog in, say, like

[10:31] upstate New York or something. That dog

[10:34] is not going to survive the winter,

[10:37] and not going to live to make puppies

[10:39] with some other dog. But in Macon, that

[10:41] dog absolutely will survive the winter

[10:43] and live to make puppies with some other

[10:46] dog. And in parts of Macon, you just

[10:48] have like packs of wild feral dogs

[10:51] roaming around. And when I would drive

[10:52] in this really poor neighborhood near my

[10:54] house, there was a street called

[10:56] Columbus Road, where a lot of the

[10:59] buildings were abandoned and

[11:01] dilapidated. It's

[11:03] rough area, but there was

[11:05] uh an auto junkyard where this

[11:07] absolutely lovely guy uh I recall his

[11:09] name was Caesar, if I'm remembering that

[11:11] right. Um

[11:13] it's a nice guy, collected like dead

[11:16] cars and mined them for parts, um or or

[11:19] or that's what his business appeared to

[11:21] be to me. And he always had a bunch of

[11:22] like stray dogs lazing around in front

[11:25] of his shop, cuz he put out food for

[11:27] them sometimes, and he put out like

[11:29] blankets and old mattresses and stuff

[11:32] for them to lie on. I imagine that they

[11:35] provided a valuable service in return,

[11:37] right? They probably scared away any

[11:38] potential thieves, which is basically

[11:41] why the wild ancestors of dogs first

[11:44] started hanging around human encampments

[11:46] in the first place, 1 or 200,000 years

[11:49] ago. Cuz you know, cows and pigs and

[11:51] sheep and such, um you know, people

[11:54] started domesticating them with the

[11:55] agricultural revolution about 10,000

[11:58] years ago, which really was not that

[12:00] long ago in the scheme of things. In

[12:01] contrast, they keep pushing back the

[12:04] date on the domestication of the dog

[12:07] because they just keep finding older and

[12:08] older evidence of dogs and humans living

[12:10] together. Um the domestication process

[12:14] starting,

[12:15] you know, at least 100,000 years ago

[12:17] with dogs and potentially much much

[12:19] earlier. With farm animals, it only

[12:21] started about 10,000 years ago. Anyway,

[12:22] I would drive by these

[12:24] feral,

[12:25] you know, miscellaneous brown and black

[12:27] mutts hanging around in front of this

[12:29] guy Caesar's uh bone yard, and at first

[12:33] I would feel really bad for these dogs.

[12:35] I would think, oh, these poor guys, you

[12:37] know, they don't have any shelter. They

[12:38] don't have any flea and tick medicine.

[12:40] They don't have steady, high-quality

[12:43] feed or vet visits or baths or walks or

[12:47] snuggles or anything like that. That's

[12:49] what I thought at first.

[12:52] Then I kept driving by these dogs day

[12:54] after day,

[12:56] and I kept thinking, you know,

[12:58] for a dog, that could be an awfully

[13:01] sweet setup. And then one day I was

[13:03] coming down Columbus Road, coming up on

[13:06] the dogs, and one of them gets up off of

[13:09] Caesar's little front stoop, and the dog

[13:12] just darts across Columbus Road almost

[13:15] right in front of my car. Like I barely

[13:17] missed hitting this damn dog. And as I

[13:20] drove past, I looked in my rearview

[13:23] mirror to see what was so important

[13:27] that the dog had to spring across the

[13:29] road at that particular moment, risking

[13:32] its life and limb.

[13:34] Why did the stray dog cross the road,

[13:36] right?

[13:40] So, I look back in my mirror

[13:42] and I see the dog emerge from the tall

[13:45] grass on the opposite side of the road

[13:47] with a giant, apparently full

[13:52] McDonald's bag in its mouth. Like,

[13:55] probably full of trash, this McDonald's

[13:57] bag, but I would bet that there was like

[13:59] a piece of bun soaked in special sauce

[14:01] or something in there, or some spare

[14:04] fries, or a half-eaten McFlurry. I mean,

[14:07] probably not a half-eaten McFlurry

[14:09] because

[14:10] we all know that ice cream machine is

[14:12] still is not working, but

[14:14] there was probably like a wealth of

[14:16] scraps in that bag. That dog had struck

[14:18] the jackpot, and he knew it, and he was

[14:20] not going to wait for me to drive past

[14:22] before claiming his prize. And at that

[14:25] moment, I wondered, you know, is this

[14:26] the life that my dog wishes she was

[14:29] living?

[14:31] And indeed, Dr. Jessica Pierce, pet

[14:34] ethicist,

[14:37] an ethicist who concerns herself with

[14:38] pets. She's not a pet herself. So,

[14:41] Dr. Jessica Pierce, ethicist working on

[14:44] pet issues, argues that yeah, like feral

[14:47] dogs probably are living their best

[14:50] life, or they're living something much

[14:51] closer to their best life than the lives

[14:54] that we provide dogs inside our homes.

[14:57] And she's not just like arguing from her

[15:00] gut. She has data to back this up. She

[15:02] looks at behavioral and physiological

[15:05] markers of stress recorded by

[15:08] veterinarians and such, and she

[15:09] concludes that most house-kept dogs,

[15:13] like the kind that was right here on the

[15:15] couch next to me until she decided that

[15:17] she wasn't ready for her close-up

[15:18] anymore,

[15:20] Dr. Pierce concludes that most house

[15:23] kept dogs are going completely batty

[15:25] these days and acting out and chewing

[15:27] everything in sight because we are

[15:29] restraining them from acting on one of

[15:31] their most basic impulses, which is to

[15:34] forage for food.

[15:39] Dogs are scavenger hunters. They'll

[15:41] chase down some live prey, but they'd be

[15:44] just as happy nosing around for an old

[15:47] dead whatever in the grass to eat,

[15:50] right? It's just something they were

[15:52] born to do, to roam around with their

[15:54] pack combing the ground for something

[15:57] disgusting to lick up.

[16:00] Dogs have a lot of mental energy and

[16:02] sensory capabilities set aside for doing

[16:04] exactly this. And when they can't use

[16:07] those capabilities, they have to turn

[16:09] them to something else, like finding

[16:11] socks of yours to destroy. And when you

[16:14] take those socks away and the dog

[16:16] eventually just plops down and goes to

[16:17] sleep, it might not be the peaceful,

[16:20] contented sleep that it looks like. In

[16:23] fact, for the live audience here, let me

[16:26] show you where Poptart is these days.

[16:29] There she is.

[16:31] You're welcome to come back up, Poptart,

[16:33] if you ever want to rejoin the program,

[16:35] okay?

[16:37] All right.

[16:38] Glad we talked about that.

[16:41] So,

[16:44] there's reason to think that most of our

[16:46] house dogs are leading lives of quiet

[16:49] desperation, and Dr. Pierce says it

[16:52] wasn't always this way. This is a unique

[16:55] feature of contemporary

[16:57] canine husbandry. Cuz back just a like a

[17:01] generation or two ago, most people who

[17:03] had dogs like didn't dote over them as

[17:07] much as,

[17:08] you know, maybe we do today, and they

[17:10] didn't contain them so much. They didn't

[17:13] worry so much about where the dog goes

[17:15] when the dog goes outside, right? This

[17:18] is how it was in my family uh growing up

[17:21] in a rural Central Pennsylvania, we had

[17:24] two Labrador retrievers in succession.

[17:27] We had Bess, who died when I was I think

[17:30] in second or third grade, maybe. And

[17:32] then we had Sophie, who died the day

[17:34] before my wedding.

[17:36] She made it real long. Uh we lived out

[17:38] in the woods

[17:39] and when we let the dog out, we let the

[17:43] dog out. Like there was no rope, there

[17:46] was no chain, there was no fence. She

[17:48] would just wander, probably like a mile

[17:51] or two away sometimes, cuz sometimes

[17:53] we'd go outside and we would call her

[17:55] back home and it would take her a long

[17:57] time to come home and sometimes she

[17:59] wouldn't come home, you know, for hours.

[18:01] And

[18:01] sometimes she'd come home smelling of

[18:03] the rotting deer carcass that she'd

[18:05] found,

[18:07] which is what she was born to do, for

[18:09] God's sake. Indeed, us kids grew up the

[18:12] same way.

[18:14] All of us

[18:15] in our little neighborhood in the woods

[18:17] in Central Pennsylvania, there was like

[18:19] four or five families out there who all

[18:21] had kids around my age, which was a

[18:22] miracle in retrospect. And we grew up

[18:25] leaving our houses and getting on our

[18:28] bikes and riding miles and

[18:31] literally miles away from home with no

[18:33] cell phones, no maps, no money.

[18:38] Um and doing this like as young as my

[18:40] kids are now, this the older one. Like

[18:43] we would just vanish into the wooded

[18:45] mist, like the kids in Stranger Things.

[18:49] I mean, Stranger Things is about my

[18:51] childhood

[18:53] up to and including all of us learning

[18:55] how to play Master of Puppets on our

[18:57] guitars. I am filled with so much

[18:59] gratitude for my feral childhood and I

[19:02] am filled with sorrow knowing that mine

[19:05] was among the last generation of at

[19:07] least American kids to grow up with that

[19:10] kind of laissez-faire parenting. You

[19:13] know, lots of kids still get neglected

[19:15] these days, of course, but that is not

[19:17] the same thing. Like, my parents were

[19:19] not neglectful in the slightest. They

[19:21] were boomers, right? They were ex-hippie

[19:23] boomers, all into feelings and positive

[19:26] reinforcement and Mr. Rogers stuff, you

[19:28] know? They were really very involved in

[19:30] my life.

[19:32] You could even call them helicopter

[19:33] parents at times, but I would still get

[19:37] to be a latchkey kid who came home from

[19:39] school alone when I was really little,

[19:41] and I'd wander into the woods with no

[19:44] real restrictions as long as I got home

[19:46] for dinner at 6:30.

[19:49] And to do the same with my kids now

[19:52] seems

[19:53] completely insane. Like,

[19:57] if they didn't get hit by cars

[20:00] or shot by armed neighbors enacting the

[20:02] castle doctrine or whatever, there's a

[20:05] chance that they would just get picked

[20:07] up by cops, and we would be charged for

[20:09] reckless endangerment or something, you

[20:11] know, child neglect, child endangerment.

[20:13] I'm sure there are still places in the

[20:15] United States and in countries like the

[20:17] United States where kids do get to grow

[20:19] up beneficially wild, but those places

[20:23] are few and far between nowadays, or at

[20:25] least they're they're thinly populated,

[20:27] which is why the feral childhood works

[20:30] there but

[20:32] you know,

[20:33] in that situation, not very many

[20:35] children can grow up in a thinly

[20:37] populated place because if a lot of them

[20:39] get there, it would become thickly

[20:40] populated. Thick-er. Um

[20:43] you know, most most US kids these days

[20:46] grow up in suffocating suburbia, where

[20:50] automobile-oriented development creates

[20:53] an environment where cars are just

[20:55] whizzing by around your ears at speeds

[20:58] that virtually assure death in a

[21:01] vehicle-on-pedestrian

[21:03] collision. It's not safe to walk, and

[21:06] there's nowhere to walk to because

[21:08] there's no woods, there's no wild land

[21:11] where kids can just like throw rocks

[21:13] into ditches or do whatever they want to

[21:15] do without some grown-up hassling them.

[21:19] Every inch of ground is owned and

[21:21] protected by someone with a ring camera

[21:24] and an AR-15. So, the environment is not

[21:28] wild enough to get lost in, but at the

[21:30] same time the environment is too wild

[21:32] for actual urban living. You know,

[21:35] suburban kids can't walk down to the

[21:37] corner store to buy candy like city kids

[21:39] can because there is no corner store in

[21:41] suburbia. Or maybe there is. Oh, hey

[21:43] dog. You want to come back?

[21:45] Or maybe there is a corner store in

[21:47] suburbia, but it's like an

[21:48] automotive-oriented convenience store,

[21:50] and there's literally no safe way to

[21:52] walk to it. There's no sidewalks,

[21:54] there's no crosswalks. It's just an

[21:56] endless moat of parking or whatever.

[21:58] This is in contrast to how like true

[22:00] city kids grow up in actual city centers

[22:04] with dense mixed-use development and

[22:07] pedestrian infrastructure.

[22:10] So, what I wonder is like is the world

[22:12] really more dangerous for kids now or

[22:15] have we just gotten more sensitive to

[22:17] the dangers that were always there,

[22:19] right? Cuz we're not having eight or 10

[22:22] kids like our great-grandparents did.

[22:24] We're only having one or two kids, and

[22:26] therefore each kid is way more valuable

[22:28] to us. We can't afford to have one kid

[22:31] hit by a train or something while he's

[22:33] out wandering. So, we protect the kids

[22:36] that we have

[22:38] to a fault, I think. I mean, maybe we do

[22:40] that. Maybe we've just gotten more

[22:41] civilized and therefore softer.

[22:44] Um more sensitive to

[22:47] the injury of a child, right?

[22:49] Hey, dog. Stop eating that. Hey,

[22:51] Pop-Tart. Hey.

[22:53] Hey.

[22:53] No chewing.

[22:55] That's a pen, you ding-dong. No, come

[22:57] here. Hey, you donut. Come here.

[23:00] Hey.

[23:01] Come on.

[23:02] I don't have time for this. I got to do

[23:04] my thing. You're eating a pen. Got it.

[23:07] There's the pen. Okay.

[23:11] Maybe we've gotten more civilized and

[23:13] therefore softer, right? Soft is the

[23:16] goal. Most of us don't want to live in

[23:19] the kind of environment that makes

[23:20] people really hard.

[23:22] I'm guessing that it's all of the above,

[23:24] right? The reason why I don't want to

[23:26] stick my kids out the front door the way

[23:28] that my parents did to me when I was

[23:30] little. Regardless, I absolutely do not

[23:32] feel safe kicking my kids out of that

[23:35] front door and I definitely don't feel

[23:37] safe kicking Pop-Tart out the front

[23:39] door.

[23:40] Pop-Tart, the new dog in the Ragusea

[23:42] house if you're just joining the live

[23:44] stream late. Here she is. She's right

[23:46] there looking for trouble. Mhm.

[23:49] So, in our neighborhood in Knoxville

[23:52] dogs do get out all the time

[23:55] and the neighborhood Facebook group is

[23:58] on it. Like the second a dog gets out,

[24:02] you're going to see a whole bunch of

[24:05] just like blurry phone photos

[24:08] that say, "Oh, this poor baby is is lost

[24:11] near Sycamore Lane or whatever."

[24:15] So, if I just kicked my dog out the door

[24:17] to wander and if she didn't immediately

[24:20] get flattened by like an oversized SUV

[24:23] on the road, well, all the neighbors

[24:25] would freak out and eventually get mad

[24:27] at me, right? They'd tell me that I'm

[24:28] abusing my dog. They'd tell me that it's

[24:31] only a matter of time before the dog

[24:33] attacks someone, you know, attacks a

[24:35] cat, attacks, you know, just jumps

[24:37] good-naturedly on an old lady and knocks

[24:39] her down or something. And those are

[24:40] valid concerns, right? So, this is why I

[24:42] bought a house with a large fenced-in

[24:45] backyard.

[24:47] Or it's one of the reasons I bought a

[24:48] big fenced-in backyard. Brits would call

[24:50] it a back garden, of course.

[24:52] So, I've got a fenced-in yard and yet

[24:55] I won't put the dog in the yard by

[24:57] herself

[24:59] because I've seen what she gets into out

[25:01] there.

[25:02] Like, I've seen what she destroys.

[25:05] I put a lot of work into the landscaping

[25:07] at my house and I don't want all my

[25:09] flowers dug up. I don't want her eating

[25:11] the mushrooms or the groundhog poop or

[25:14] the rocks or the dirt. This dog

[25:17] literally chews rocks unless I stop her.

[25:21] Now, in her defense, she is she has

[25:22] shown something of a preference for like

[25:25] old chunks of concrete or blacktop that

[25:28] she finds as compared to, you know,

[25:30] naturally consolidated rocks. I'm

[25:32] guessing the concrete is a little more

[25:34] crumbly. It's a little easier to chew.

[25:36] Is that what it is?

[25:38] Pop-Tart has standards. You have

[25:39] standards. Yeah, you do.

[25:43] That's what she does with me standing

[25:44] right there next to her in the backyard.

[25:46] Lord knows what she would do if I left

[25:49] her out there alone to engage in the

[25:52] scavenging behavior for which she was

[25:55] born, right? Like, even if I didn't care

[25:57] that much about her well-being, I

[26:00] wouldn't want her barfing that stuff

[26:01] back up again inside the house. She's

[26:04] still a big puppy. She'll probably chill

[26:06] out in a couple of years and then I can

[26:08] start letting her go out back by herself

[26:10] a bit, I'm sure. But, most other like

[26:13] urban and suburban dog owners make very

[26:15] similar calculations in their own heads

[26:17] and now our dogs rarely get to wander.

[26:20] Right? We take them for a couple of

[26:22] walks a day. Don't eat the computer.

[26:25] We take them for a couple of walks a

[26:26] day. I run with Pop-Tart sometimes just

[26:29] to tire us both out, but you know,

[26:31] physical exercise is not really what she

[26:34] needs. What she needs is the mental

[26:36] exercise of looking for food,

[26:40] which is something she is supposed to

[26:42] spend most of her waking hours doing.

[26:47] And when she can't, she goes looking for

[26:49] pens.

[26:51] Or is this some kind of like cosmetic

[26:54] device from under Lauren's

[26:57] desk?

[26:59] I don't know.

[27:00] Anyhoo,

[27:04] Dr. Jessica Pierce, noted pet ethicist,

[27:06] says that when she takes her dog for a

[27:09] walk, the dog is in charge, right? She

[27:12] lets the dog sniff out a trail in any

[27:15] reasonable direction, and she follows

[27:17] the dog, and they move at the dog's

[27:18] pace, which is usually very slow cuz you

[27:21] got to sniff, right? I've been trying to

[27:23] do that with Poptart lately, just let

[27:25] her lead the walks.

[27:27] And I provide her with all the comforts

[27:29] that a dog could expect, and monthly

[27:31] flea and tick medicine, and heartworm

[27:33] medicine, and trips to the vet. I'm sure

[27:36] Poptart will outlive any of the feral

[27:38] mutts hanging out on Columbus Road back

[27:41] in Macon.

[27:43] But,

[27:45] a mature view of life and death observes

[27:50] that death isn't anywhere close to being

[27:53] the worst thing that can happen to you.

[27:57] And comfort isn't the best thing that

[28:00] can happen to you.

[28:01] Like grass-fed beef cattle,

[28:04] grass-fed beef cattle raised the right

[28:07] way by conscientious humane ranchers,

[28:10] right? Those cattle may indeed live

[28:13] better lives, all things considered,

[28:15] than the life that Poptart will live,

[28:17] right? She's going to live longer

[28:20] cuz most beef cattle these days only

[28:22] live a couple of years, max,

[28:25] sometimes a year and a half, right?

[28:27] But, the cattle born on a good ranch

[28:29] spends their the days that they do have

[28:32] doing 100% what they want to do, which

[28:36] is to stand in a green field and chew

[28:39] grass. That's what the cow wants to do.

[28:44] And pedants, yes, I know it's not

[28:46] literally a cow.

[28:48] Cattle.

[28:49] Pop-Tart almost never gets to do exactly

[28:52] what she wants to do. Her life is a

[28:55] constant comfortable captivity.

[28:59] And how does that sound to you,

[29:01] honestly?

[29:03] Cuz death isn't anywhere close to being

[29:05] the worst thing that can happen to you.

[29:08] And comfort isn't the best thing that

[29:10] can happen to you. That's true for dogs

[29:12] and it's true for people. Sometimes I

[29:14] wonder if our modern highly

[29:16] dysfunctional human relationship with

[29:19] food

[29:20] is rooted in the fact that we are born

[29:23] scavengers, too. Just like the dog. I

[29:27] mean, look it up. We humans have the

[29:30] level of stomach acidity that you would

[29:32] normally see in animals like dogs that

[29:35] eat old dead things, right? We are

[29:37] hunter-gatherers, just like dogs, you

[29:39] know? We hunt a little, but we might or

[29:42] mostly supposed to spend most of our

[29:43] waking hours just wandering around

[29:45] combing the ground for anything to eat.

[29:48] We're supposed to have food on the brain

[29:51] most of the time because we need to be

[29:54] constantly looking for food just to get

[29:57] barely enough food to survive, right? At

[30:00] least that's how it worked on the plains

[30:02] of East Africa for which every single

[30:04] one of us humans

[30:07] was evolved. That is home for all of us,

[30:10] right?

[30:12] Most of us are very, very far away from

[30:14] home now. Food is everywhere. Food is

[30:16] everywhere. You don't need to think

[30:18] about it all the time, and yet we do

[30:20] because we're born to. And usually that

[30:23] ends up with us just eating way too much

[30:25] food or spending way too much on food or

[30:29] wasting way too much time watching food

[30:32] videos on the internet.

[30:36] So, with that, I think that uh I'll

[30:39] start reading some questions and

[30:40] comments from the live chat.

[30:43] For the moment, I'm going to prioritize

[30:45] dog-related content in the group chat

[30:48] for the sake of uh you know, a smooth

[30:50] transition out of what we've already

[30:51] been talking about, but eventually we'll

[30:53] just go with the flow. And the flow

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[32:41] Now, dog, that's a piece of plastic. You

[32:43] can't have that to eat. Thank you.

[32:48] And uh let's check out the uh

[32:51] Let's check out the chat box. Okay, so

[32:58] people are asking some specifics about

[33:00] Dr. Pierce's research um and uh you know

[33:04] how how they measure dog happiness and

[33:06] stuff like that and I would simply

[33:07] prefer you to you one of her many books

[33:09] on the topic. Uh you know, not really

[33:12] not really uh

[33:14] my area of expertise.

[33:17] You know, people will you know, I I

[33:19] guess I could talk a little bit about

[33:20] food.

[33:21] Um you know, like is it is it ethical to

[33:24] feed your dog uh the stuff that we

[33:27] usually feed dogs, which is not Hey,

[33:30] charging bricks at expensive Apple

[33:32] charging bricks. We do not eat those.

[33:34] No, no, no. We do not eat those.

[33:38] What do we eat?

[33:39] We eat kibble, right? So, the dog eats

[33:41] kibble

[33:43] and

[33:45] you know, um the thing about kibble

[33:47] mixtures is that in addition to being

[33:48] like very efficiently produced, you

[33:50] know, um I'm I'm sure the profit margin

[33:53] on dog food has got to be fantastic cuz

[33:55] it's just so

[33:56] you know, they're they're just using

[33:57] byproducts from other industries mostly

[34:00] and which is not a bad thing. Efficiency

[34:02] is good, you know. Efficiency is good.

[34:04] And uh and they're they're those feeds

[34:06] are perfectly formulated for the dogs.

[34:08] So, if they only eat that, they're going

[34:10] to be fine. They're going to get all

[34:12] their macros and all their micros. And

[34:14] if you diverge from that, right? Like if

[34:17] you you know, every now and then give

[34:18] them a

[34:20] you know, some human food, then yeah,

[34:22] you risk kind of diverting them from

[34:24] that uh

[34:25] from that perfect diet. But then again,

[34:27] for God's sake, it's just a dog,

[34:31] you know?

[34:33] It's just a dog. And indeed, okay, so

[34:35] who's asking this? So, oh, I I lost your

[34:39] I lost your chat. Oh.

[34:42] Oh, I'm so sad. Okay, so somebody asked

[34:45] something that's really important, which

[34:46] is like why essentially like how you how

[34:50] I personally square the ethics of like

[34:52] doting over my dog while I also like

[34:56] kill and eat animals, which is a

[34:58] perfectly fair question. And I'm not I

[35:00] don't want to get into like all the

[35:02] specifics of my

[35:04] ethical calculations on meat eating. I

[35:06] mean, that's that that deserves its own

[35:08] very long episode that I I don't even

[35:10] really want to do, but I'll do it at

[35:12] some point cuz it's it's important,

[35:14] right? Um you know, but I don't know if

[35:16] you all saw it, but like there was um

[35:18] I believe it was a sub-organization

[35:21] within PETA, People for the Ethical

[35:23] Treatment of Animals, did this like

[35:25] viral social media campaign where they

[35:28] pretended to be and forgive me, PETA, if

[35:30] this wasn't you.

[35:32] Um I I might I just recall that it was

[35:34] you. Um but it was a it was an awesome

[35:36] it was a very clever campaign. So, the

[35:37] clever social media campaign, I don't

[35:39] know if you saw it, was

[35:40] they had like these beautiful dogs in a

[35:44] picture and it's like, you know, here we

[35:46] are down at Farm Dogworth or whatever

[35:48] and these these uh dogs have, you know,

[35:51] lived a wonderful rich life out here on

[35:53] the pasture and uh now their time has

[35:57] come and it's we're ready to harvest

[35:58] them for meat, right? And let Let us

[36:00] know how many pounds of dog meat you

[36:01] want. And the intent of this very clever

[36:04] kind of advertising campaign was to

[36:06] point out how hypocritical it is that

[36:09] some of us

[36:10] dote over our dogs and yet we kill and

[36:13] eat animals who are easily as

[36:15] intelligent. Like like look it up. Dog

[36:17] intelligence, dog cognition is not

[36:19] remarkable. Like they're not that

[36:21] they're not notably smarter than other

[36:24] mammals about their general description,

[36:27] you know, size and everything, okay?

[36:28] Hey, please do not eat the brick. Come

[36:31] here. Come on.

[36:32] You can't eat it. It It It can't happen.

[36:34] You can't be eating this.

[36:36] Anyways,

[36:37] and that's what the intent of the ad

[36:40] campaign was,

[36:42] but the funny thing was that all it did

[36:44] was basically reinforce to me the notion

[36:47] that the way we treat our dogs is

[36:48] completely insane, right? Like Like I I

[36:51] am a humanist.

[36:53] Card-carrying secular humanist. I

[36:54] believe that humans are fundamentally

[36:57] very, very special. Um you know, quite

[36:59] possibly the most special thing in the

[37:01] entire universe is the human race,

[37:03] possibly.

[37:04] And we are more important than they are,

[37:07] okay? I don't believe that they have

[37:09] that they're

[37:10] all that sentient.

[37:13] Like I'm sure it's I'm sure it's a

[37:15] spectrum or gray area, right? I don't

[37:18] think that they're that intelligent or

[37:20] sentient, and I'm not that concerned

[37:22] with their well-being, honestly. I

[37:23] didn't even really want a dog, um

[37:25] another dog. Like our dog back in Macon

[37:27] was was a lovely dog, but she was, you

[37:29] know, a traumatized shelter dog, and we

[37:31] dealt with a lot of problems. And I, you

[37:35] know, the reason that I consented to get

[37:36] a dog when Lauren wanted to get one was

[37:38] that I do think that like kids should

[37:40] grow up with animals. I think that's

[37:41] important for them developmentally on a

[37:43] number of levels, and I wanted to get

[37:45] chickens, but Lauren didn't want

[37:46] chickens, so we compromised on a dog,

[37:48] okay? I or I wanted a goat. I might

[37:49] still get a goat. We'll see.

[37:51] So anyhoo

[37:52] you know, I I I I kind of think that

[37:54] like

[37:55] what I try to remember is that we have

[37:57] the dog for us, okay? The dog is here to

[38:00] serve us.

[38:01] Um that's why we have them, and so why

[38:04] we invite them into our homes, even if

[38:05] we think we're doing otherwise, that's

[38:08] not really true. It really is about us,

[38:11] and so

[38:12] yeah, I don't really care. And I mostly

[38:14] see the dog as like a thing

[38:16] where children can practice empathy in

[38:20] seeing how things that they do cause

[38:22] pain to another living being or make

[38:24] another living being feel good. And I

[38:26] don't think that that's intrinsically

[38:27] super important. Like I love Pop-Tart,

[38:29] but I don't Yeah, I know. I was talking

[38:31] about you. But I you know, I don't think

[38:32] it's really that important if you are

[38:33] well treated in the scheme of things. Um

[38:36] what's more important is that like

[38:38] the kids get the opportunity trying to

[38:40] learn how to treat you well so that they

[38:42] can then apply what the those skills to

[38:45] how they treat humans later in life,

[38:46] which I think is a lot more important.

[38:48] But I also think it's important to treat

[38:50] animals well. You know, I always say to

[38:51] the kids, you never hurt an animal with

[38:53] no reason. Right? Cuz kids instinctively

[38:55] just want to pull the wings off of flies

[38:57] and stuff like that and I'm just like,

[38:58] "No. You never hurt an animal unless you

[39:00] have a good reason to." And uh needing

[39:03] food

[39:04] is broadly speaking a good reason. Now,

[39:07] is

[39:09] does that logic justify like the

[39:11] industrial meat making apparatus as it

[39:14] has evolved in the United States and in

[39:16] similar countries uh or countries that

[39:18] have imitated the United States

[39:19] subsequently? No, I don't think it does.

[39:21] Like I I really, you know, I I I

[39:24] weigh less meat now than I used to and I

[39:27] get it mostly from places I really trust

[39:29] and I think that that's important, but I

[39:30] also don't presume to lecture you about

[39:33] that because only you know about your

[39:36] situation and how much money you have

[39:38] and you know, what what you need to eat

[39:40] in order to be healthy, what you

[39:42] specifically need to eat in order to be

[39:43] healthy and I That's that's for you to

[39:46] kind of figure out for your for

[39:47] yourself, you know?

[39:49] So, um yeah. Brandon Vincent says, uh

[39:53] "Nowadays we are so far removed from

[39:56] what meat is. My grandma would never buy

[39:58] a chicken breast or a boneless, skinless

[40:00] thigh. She buys the whole chicken and

[40:03] breaks it down." Yeah, that's awesome. I

[40:05] do wonder if if pe- treatment of animals

[40:09] was more hu- like farm animals was more

[40:12] humane

[40:13] back in the day when uh most people were

[40:16] kind of rearing and and killing their

[40:18] own animals, I wonder if

[40:22] doing that actually de- de- de-

[40:24] humanizes the animal more in your eyes

[40:26] and you end up treating it even more

[40:28] callously because you're just living

[40:30] every day in the harsh realities of the

[40:32] farm, which always makes me think of if

[40:35] you've ever seen like st- stop watching

[40:38] this right or listening to this right

[40:39] now if you've not seen it, but um

[40:42] the old footage of Werner Herzog, the

[40:44] document the German documentarian, or is

[40:47] he Austrian? I don't know. Werner Herzog

[40:50] um

[40:51] in the jungle making a documentary about

[40:53] the jungle and saying that like it's

[40:54] it's just violence. It's horrible

[40:57] violent profanity and fornication and

[40:59] violence. And I

[41:02] but I I don't hate the jungle. I love

[41:04] the jungle. I love I I love the jungle

[41:07] against my better judgment.

[41:10] Um

[41:11] yeah. Anyway, the point is is that like

[41:13] nature like like the nature is cruel.

[41:15] Like we are the least I I would guess

[41:17] that we are the least cruel as a people

[41:20] than we've ever been at this very moment

[41:23] and it's because prosperity has made us

[41:26] soft in a number of ways. And you know,

[41:29] in general, I think it's good. Like no

[41:30] one no one people think they don't want

[41:32] to be soft just like people think they

[41:34] don't want to be old, but as they you

[41:36] know my

[41:38] uh physician says as I get get older is

[41:41] uh you know, old is the goal. Old is the

[41:43] goal, right? You want to live long. Soft

[41:45] is the goal cuz you want to live the

[41:46] kind of lifestyle that makes you

[41:49] soft, morally soft, right? Like

[41:52] sympathetic. Living an easier lifestyle

[41:55] is what leads to that to some extent,

[41:57] you know? Cuz you have the you have the

[41:58] time, you have the latitude, you have

[42:00] the privilege of being able to consider

[42:03] lots of things other than your own

[42:05] immediate needs.

[42:07] Oh, thanks. Are you okay?

[42:10] How are your immediate needs over there?

[42:12] Come here. It's all right. Just get out

[42:13] from underneath it. She She collapsed

[42:16] the uh stepstool onto her, which sounds

[42:18] way worse than it is. Would you just

[42:19] come over here?

[42:21] I'm not going to get up and lift it off

[42:22] you.

[42:23] All right. What else is saying?

[42:25] Uh So, Lemonhead says plant-based meats

[42:28] like Beyond and Impossible are touted as

[42:30] being more environmentally friendly than

[42:32] beef, but they have their own

[42:34] environmental costs, too, with the land

[42:37] use, water use, and GMOs, et cetera.

[42:39] Thoughts? Thank you, Lemonhead. I

[42:43] boy, that is so complicated and it it

[42:45] really depends on the specific meat

[42:48] alternative product you're talking about

[42:50] and you know, and compared to what? Like

[42:53] you're eating the Impossible meat

[42:55] compared to what? And so, there's it's

[42:56] You cannot give an accurate blanket

[42:59] answer to a question like that. And I

[43:02] Personally, I think you should be really

[43:04] suspicious of anyone who does, right?

[43:07] Cuz it it it Any content creator or

[43:09] whoever, I mean, unless they're like an

[43:10] actual freaking scientist with

[43:11] credentials. If it's just a dude like

[43:12] me, and they say that clearly this one

[43:15] product is environmentally better than

[43:17] the other, unless they've really

[43:18] interrogated that and they give a lot of

[43:20] detail to that assessment, I would be

[43:23] suspicious of them.

[43:25] You know, cuz beef I mean, even the case

[43:27] against beef, the environmental case

[43:29] against beef, is really complicated, and

[43:31] that's something I will do a whole video

[43:33] about at some point if I feel like I can

[43:35] wrap my head around it and find the

[43:37] right experts. But, you know, the basic

[43:39] thing is you know, the biggest

[43:41] environmental you know,

[43:43] in most experts' opinions, and certainly

[43:45] in my opinion, for what it's worth, like

[43:46] the most The biggest hazard

[43:49] environmental hazard that the beef

[43:50] industry poses is its contribution to

[43:52] global warming, which is, you know,

[43:54] cows, as they are digesting their grass,

[43:56] they burp uh and to a lesser extent,

[43:58] toot. Um

[44:00] Uh oh gosh, what is the hydrocarbon that

[44:03] they toot? It's called

[44:05] Oh, who Somebody in the chat knows.

[44:08] Methane, right? So, methane.

[44:11] You know? Oh, thank you. Uh Dank Dank

[44:13] Jeb. Oh my god, is Dank Jeb like Jeb

[44:17] Bush, but he smokes?

[44:19] That's awesome. I love that image. Okay.

[44:21] Uh methane. So, methane is like an

[44:23] incredibly powerful greenhouse gas. It

[44:26] has a much stronger I think it's

[44:28] something like a six times the

[44:29] greenhouse effect of an equivalent

[44:30] amount of just carbon dioxide, right? Um

[44:34] and that's that's real bad, right? But,

[44:37] on the other hand, what you could say is

[44:38] that when cattle are grazing off of

[44:41] grass especially

[44:43] um they're contributing to

[44:47] a closed carbon cycle, right? There's

[44:50] surface life stuff. There's surface

[44:52] carbon-based matter on the planet that

[44:54] we mostly organic material, right? And

[44:59] life forms on the surface are constantly

[45:01] eating that carbon and then putting that

[45:03] carbon into the atmosphere and then it

[45:05] gets sucked back out of the atmosphere

[45:07] into the plant that the cow is going to

[45:10] swing back and eat again the next day,

[45:12] right? Like the grass cannot grow

[45:14] without taking carbon out of out of the

[45:17] out of the atmosphere to contribute to

[45:18] its own growth, right? So, what like the

[45:20] beef industry apologists will say, and

[45:23] it's not the argument is not totally

[45:25] without merit,

[45:26] in my opinion. Um

[45:28] take it for what it's worth cuz I'm just

[45:29] a dude on the internet.

[45:31] Um

[45:31] what the beef industry apologists will

[45:33] say is that cattle are not contributing

[45:36] any new carbon to the environment.

[45:38] They're participating in the closed

[45:40] surface and atmospheric carbon cycle.

[45:44] Um and the the reason that, you know,

[45:46] fossil fuels are so incredibly injurious

[45:49] to the climate is that that's that's not

[45:51] surface carbon. That's what they call

[45:54] sequestered carbon. Carbon

[45:56] that has been trapped for millions of

[45:58] years under the ground and to bring

[46:00] bring all up to the surface at once,

[46:02] which is what we've been doing since the

[46:03] dawn of the industrial revolution, and

[46:05] that, you know, the last 200 years

[46:07] counts as all at once in geological

[46:09] time right?

[46:11] Um,

[46:11] so when you bring it all up at once,

[46:13] then yeah, you have the potential to

[46:14] like introduce a lot of new carbon to

[46:16] the atmosphere, and that could really

[46:18] mess things up, and seem it seems like

[46:20] it is really messing things up.

[46:22] Uh,

[46:25] cows are not part of that. They're part

[46:26] of the closed surface carbon cycle.

[46:28] That's what the beef industry apologists

[46:30] will say. Now, the counter argument to

[46:32] that is that the cows are not just

[46:35] burping carbon dioxide, they're burping,

[46:39] oh, I'm so Would you just get out from

[46:40] under the the ladder if you don't like

[46:42] it? Like you could literally just walk

[46:43] away right now.

[46:46] Like just make it

[46:48] All I'm asking is that you own your

[46:50] choices, dog, okay? Just own your Can

[46:53] Can you own your choices?

[46:55] Thank you.

[46:56] See, barely sentient. Anyway,

[46:58] uh,

[47:00] the counter argument to that is that the

[47:02] particular kind of methane that dog that

[47:05] that cattle cattle

[47:07] uh, burp out, the particular kind of

[47:08] carbon is methane, which is far more

[47:11] powerful of a greenhouse gas than the

[47:13] carbon dioxide that would be released if

[47:15] you simply burned that grass instead of

[47:18] feeding it to a cow. And therefore,

[47:21] that's why, you know, very smart people

[47:23] think that the beef industry is probably

[47:25] contributing very substantially to

[47:28] global warming, and that ain't great.

[47:30] Um, I find myself increasingly when I do

[47:33] eat meat, eating beef,

[47:35] um, because I have fewer animal welfare

[47:38] concerns with beef. Um, beef that's, you

[47:42] know, that's where I get it from guys

[47:43] that I trust, like that that that that

[47:45] cow has lived those cattle have lived

[47:48] incredibly, you know, cushy, nice lives,

[47:51] and were killed quickly and humanely,

[47:54] and I have no problem with that. Um, but

[47:56] I still worry about it chiefly from a

[47:57] climate perspective. But you can't

[47:59] answer the question

[48:01] is beef bad for the environment without

[48:05] first dealing seriously and

[48:08] realistically with what you're comparing

[48:10] it to. What would people eat instead of

[48:12] the beef? What would they grow on that

[48:14] ranch land instead

[48:17] in other than beef? Would they grow

[48:19] anything? A lot of ranch land is really,

[48:21] really, you know, dry and semi-arid in

[48:24] the United States, certainly, right? You

[48:26] really can't do much else with most of

[48:27] the land that we use for grazing. Or at

[48:29] least that's that's what the ranchers

[48:31] like to tell us. Don't know how it true

[48:33] it is. I imagine it's somewhat true,

[48:35] right? Uh, you know, what So, what would

[48:37] we grow instead? And where would we grow

[48:39] it? If we were if we weren't growing cow

[48:42] meat there. We'd probably be growing

[48:44] another thing somewhere else, and it

[48:46] might be just as bad for the

[48:47] environment. We It's I doubt it. So, I

[48:50] generally encourage reducing meat

[48:52] consumption, and that's what I'm doing

[48:53] in my own life, cuz I think it's

[48:55] probably the safest bet, you know? And

[48:57] maybe I'll stop eating meat entirely one

[48:58] day. I don't I don't know. I certainly

[49:01] don't don't really need it anymore, you

[49:02] know?

[49:03] Okay.

[49:04] So, I should go ahead and answer some

[49:07] more questions in the chat. Uh,

[49:10] buh buh buh buh. Okay, so Blood Alchemy

[49:12] says, "Question: You've talked about

[49:14] YouTube sponsorships before. Last year

[49:17] video started showing the white graph

[49:20] with what parts of a video are popular

[49:22] or unpopular, and did that change my ad

[49:25] contracts?" Uh, no, it didn't, cuz if

[49:28] you look at the what I think is the

[49:30] graph that you're referring to, which

[49:32] shows the like most viewed parts, which

[49:34] mostly is an indication of either

[49:37] you know, you you would be able to see

[49:38] some drop-off with that if people are

[49:40] just leaving, but mostly what you see is

[49:42] the parts that people repeat. And if you

[49:44] look at it in videos like mine that have

[49:47] like in-video sponsorships where I'm the

[49:49] one delivering the the

[49:51] the most viewed um

[49:53] spot in the video is always the end of

[49:56] the sponsorship.

[49:58] Because people are checking back in to

[50:00] see if they got past it, if they forward

[50:02] if they were able to fast forward past

[50:03] it. And when they can't, they have to

[50:05] sort of, you know, watch the end of the

[50:08] of the ad a little bit and then they get

[50:09] back into the show. And

[50:12] you know, to me it it's up to my

[50:14] sponsors to decide how best I can help

[50:16] them, you know, move some product,

[50:18] right? And if they are concerned about

[50:20] that feature or want to respond to it in

[50:22] some way, then I would be happy to work

[50:24] with them. But what I imagine is that

[50:27] it's probably not hurting their business

[50:28] cuz, you know, when people

[50:30] rewind to find the spot where the ad

[50:33] ended,

[50:35] they're going to be watching for the

[50:37] call to what they call the CTA or the

[50:39] call to action, which is where you say,

[50:40] you know, go to this website to save

[50:42] this money and get your buy your widget,

[50:44] whatever it is. And that's like the most

[50:47] important for them part of the ad for

[50:49] them to watch, and it seems to be the

[50:51] most popular part of every video that I

[50:53] put up for the reasons that we have

[50:55] discussed, and I would imagine that

[50:57] that's just fine for my fine sponsors,

[51:00] which of course includes

[51:02] Indeed, other sponsor of this episode.

[51:06] Go to uh indeed.com/ragusea

[51:11] to go ahead and get yourself a $75

[51:14] sponsored job credit so that you can

[51:17] heart start hiring now with Indeed.

[51:20] Indeed is a job board, but the best one,

[51:23] right? Oh, that offer is good for a

[51:24] limited time, I should say.

[51:27] If you're hiring for your own business

[51:29] all on your own, you're doing something

[51:31] that's really much harder and more

[51:33] consequential than the live podcast

[51:36] hosting that I am doing right now, which

[51:37] is really quite hard, especially when

[51:39] the dog is acting up for reasons

[51:41] previously discussed on the program.

[51:43] What you're trying to do, trying to hire

[51:45] people for your business, that's even

[51:46] harder than what I'm doing right now.

[51:48] You just need to breathe, you got to

[51:49] take it easy, you got to keep it simple.

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[52:24] candidates whose resume on Indeed

[52:26] matches their job description the moment

[52:28] that they sponsor a job, and that's

[52:30] according to Indeed's US data. Thank

[52:32] you, dog. I know you're so interested in

[52:34] this

[52:35] advertisement, an advert as the Brits

[52:37] would say.

[52:39] Let's say that Indeed spits out exactly

[52:41] the right person for you.

[52:43] What you can do then is message that

[52:46] potential employee through Indeed. You

[52:48] know, invite them to apply for your job,

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[53:38] Question for you, Adam, from TK. TK

[53:41] says, "I love your deep dives into food

[53:44] history.

[53:45] What is your approach when going down

[53:46] the rabbit hole of investigating the

[53:48] origin of food or a food custom?"

[53:52] So, he TK is not

[53:54] asking about my research process

[53:56] generally, but but specifically as it

[53:57] applies to food history videos, which I

[54:00] don't do enough of. I would like to do

[54:02] more of those. Usually, that involves

[54:06] for me finding a scholar, a specific

[54:09] scholar who is working on that topic.

[54:12] Like and usually, I can find someone

[54:14] that's their whole life's work is, you

[54:16] know, for example,

[54:18] where did the modern concept of the

[54:19] restaurant come from? Right? That's a

[54:21] video we did with an Indiana University

[54:23] professor, uh Dr. Rebecca

[54:26] something German, Speer something. I

[54:29] don't know what it was. But, she did a

[54:30] great job. Um and I I just, you know, I

[54:33] find the right scholar, I go put a

[54:34] camera on them, I help them sell a few

[54:37] books as a courtesy, and that's usually

[54:40] what I do. And that And that works.

[54:42] There's a couple of tricks there,

[54:43] though. Um one, you got to make sure

[54:47] that the scholar you're going to talk to

[54:48] about a historical topic, or really any

[54:50] topic, is not like a fringe figure,

[54:52] okay? And if they are a fringe figure,

[54:55] that doesn't necessarily disqualify

[54:56] them, but it requires that you're going

[54:58] to have to add a lot more context to

[55:00] yourself, and you're probably going to

[55:01] need to interview some more mainstream

[55:03] scholars in that field, unless you have

[55:06] the ability to really tell um BS from

[55:09] non-BS, which I I don't in in most

[55:11] things, right? I I I defer to expertise

[55:14] excitedly, willingly, you know? And

[55:16] that's

[55:17] Is that an appeals to authority fallacy?

[55:20] No, I don't think so, but maybe me and

[55:22] Vlad Vexler could talk about that

[55:24] sometime on the channel. I'm going to

[55:26] call you, Vlad. Anyhow,

[55:28] um

[55:28] so, you got to make sure that the

[55:31] scholar you're interviewing is not is

[55:33] not a fringe figure who's going to be

[55:36] representing the the history really

[55:39] differently than the way everyone else

[55:40] in the field would represent it, right?

[55:42] And that can be tricky

[55:44] um because sometimes you're I'm after

[55:46] doing something that's so niche, a

[55:48] historical topic that is so niche that

[55:50] there's really only like one person

[55:52] who's written a book about it or

[55:53] anything like that and they're kind of

[55:55] the only game in town and I just kind of

[55:57] have to hope that they're not crazy, you

[55:59] know? And I try to rely, trust in the

[56:02] systems of university tenure review and

[56:06] you know, peer review for publication

[56:08] and stuff to make sure that nothing

[56:09] completely insane is going to get um you

[56:13] know, boosted by my channel and I'm sure

[56:15] sometimes it does. And then the other

[56:17] thing you got to be careful for is to

[56:20] see

[56:21] look at the sca- I have to be careful

[56:22] for is when I look at the scholar or the

[56:24] expert that I'm interviewing for that

[56:25] food history video and I have to ask

[56:28] myself is this person an outsider

[56:31] when it comes to what they're talking

[56:32] about? Like are they inside the

[56:34] community that is being written about or

[56:37] are they viewing it from the outside?

[56:39] And if they're viewing it from the

[56:40] outside in some way, I have to make sure

[56:42] I get some kind of inside perspective

[56:44] and when I don't, I always live to

[56:46] regret it. So an example, and this is

[56:48] this is not an expert screwing me, this

[56:50] is just me screwing myself as usual,

[56:52] would be a podcast episode recently

[56:56] where I talked about the wonders of

[56:58] Brazilian steak houses, which are

[57:00] awesome and I love that and I I liked

[57:02] that episode and I don't think I said

[57:04] anything really wrong or anything. What

[57:06] I messed up was I was giving the history

[57:08] behind um the Brazilian steak house

[57:10] institution and the particular

[57:12] geographic area that birthed it, which

[57:14] is called the Pampas.

[57:16] Uh you know, a an area of

[57:18] perfect for cattle ranching that's

[57:19] around uh Buenos Aires in in Argentina

[57:22] but uh the southern province of Brazil

[57:24] is part of it other other countries have

[57:26] parts of it. But anyway, so I talked

[57:28] about sort of how the Pampas got

[57:30] populated by cattle and and by cowboys

[57:33] called gauchos. And what I didn't

[57:36] mention was the indigenous people of the

[57:38] Pampas who were driven out by that

[57:41] activity. And apparently, like it's not

[57:44] a mistake that I missed that. Um the,

[57:47] you know, uh powers that be in Argentina

[57:50] and elsewhere have worked really hard

[57:51] apparently to kind of expunge that part

[57:53] of

[57:54] their history from the record. And so

[57:57] and they succeeded. And they they they

[57:59] fooled me. They duped me. I just didn't

[58:01] I didn't When I was reading up on

[58:02] Brazilian steak houses, I I did not read

[58:04] up anything about any indigenous

[58:06] population of the Pampas. And I guess I

[58:08] assumed that there was very little if

[58:10] any. Which you know, which is not crazy

[58:12] for me to assume because I believe the,

[58:14] you know, indigenous population was much

[58:16] more concentrated on the uh western uh

[58:19] west coast of South America pre-Columbia

[58:22] um pre-Columbian exchange. Exchange

[58:24] Columbian exchange. That's such a benign

[58:26] way to describe

[58:28] mass murder. Um

[58:30] Anyhow, I guess I should just go ahead

[58:32] and move on. But anyway, sorry to the

[58:34] indigenous people of the Pampas. Uh

[58:36] that's the way that I screwed up because

[58:38] I didn't I didn't consult an insider,

[58:41] right? The way I should have for that.

[58:43] And I guess I didn't think I needed to

[58:45] cuz it was just kind of an offhand and

[58:47] casual podcast where I was just talking

[58:48] about how much I liked my dinner at a

[58:50] Brazilian steak house. Um but it I I I I

[58:54] it suffered because I didn't look it for

[58:56] somebody inside.

[58:58] So, uh let's see. Smiliest Prid,

[59:02] Smiliest Prid is asking, "Would you ever

[59:04] have Vsauce on the pod?" I'd love to.

[59:07] Vsauce is awesome. Uh lovely, lovely

[59:10] guy.

[59:11] Um and

[59:14] we There's a I don't know if I should

[59:16] tell you.

[59:17] Well, I can alert you to the existence

[59:19] of it as long as I don't throw you a

[59:20] keys. But there's like a Discord server

[59:22] where a lot of um us, people like me,

[59:25] you know, food tubers hang out and talk

[59:28] and you know, we talk shop and help each

[59:30] other out a little bit, you know, give

[59:31] each other

[59:32] thumbnail feedback, whatever. And uh and

[59:34] Vsauce is there and is awesome. Um I the

[59:37] trick

[59:39] the trick with the podcast I have found

[59:42] is that very rarely do guests draw

[59:45] audience. Topic is what draws audience.

[59:49] Um something that you can say in three

[59:51] words on your thumbnail that is going to

[59:54] pique people's curiosity and make them

[59:56] want to click. And even a big get

[59:59] interview

[1:00:00] has not historically done that for me

[1:00:02] when I've tried it. Now, my gets are my

[1:00:06] idea of a big get is like Vsauce, right?

[1:00:10] And and maybe if I thought a little

[1:00:12] bigger, if you know, the idea of my my

[1:00:14] idea of a big get was Gordon Ramsay or

[1:00:17] something, like I bet a lot of people

[1:00:19] would click on a video that promised a

[1:00:21] conversation between me and

[1:00:23] Gordon Ramsay, right? But it's never

[1:00:25] going to happen cuz I for any number of

[1:00:27] reasons. Like he's like he's like I try

[1:00:29] to be really happy and smiley in my

[1:00:30] public persona, but like

[1:00:32] Gordon Ramsay is pretty much the only

[1:00:34] like food world personality that I will

[1:00:37] consistently talk crap about in public

[1:00:38] cuz I just think he is so he's been such

[1:00:41] an overwhelmingly negative force on the

[1:00:43] world. Like his net effect on the world

[1:00:46] has been really negative, I suspect. Um

[1:00:49] and I just

[1:00:51] Anyhow,

[1:00:52] um fun fact, got another email from like

[1:00:56] a casting agent who is looking to cast

[1:00:59] the next victim for a Gordon Ramsay

[1:01:01] reality show and they were very they

[1:01:04] they saw my channel and they're very

[1:01:06] impressed by my content and they're

[1:01:08] curious if we could get on the phone to

[1:01:09] talk about me giving up, you know, four

[1:01:12] months of my life or whatever it is, you

[1:01:15] know, to live in uh

[1:01:18] an isolated bubble, which is what you

[1:01:20] have to do when you do those reality

[1:01:22] shows. if you didn't know. Like to have

[1:01:23] to give them your phone maybe, you know,

[1:01:25] cuz they don't want people

[1:01:27] they don't want people uh

[1:01:29] breaking the news about who won who win

[1:01:31] the show. Who won who don't people doing

[1:01:33] spoilers for the show. So, you have to

[1:01:35] live like a sequestered juryman for like

[1:01:38] for a few months while you're filming

[1:01:40] the show while Gordon Ramsay abuses you

[1:01:42] and humiliates you no matter how good

[1:01:43] you are at what you do. And uh

[1:01:47] yeah, I I no. I can think of many things

[1:01:50] I would do before Gordon Ramsay program.

[1:01:53] And uh that list of things that I would

[1:01:57] rather do includes hitting myself in the

[1:01:59] face with a hammer.

[1:02:03] All right. Uh we can take like a couple

[1:02:05] more questions and then we got to we got

[1:02:07] to go ahead and wrap this one up.

[1:02:11] Um Hannah Dow asks, "How come in your

[1:02:14] oven fries video, you instruct to add

[1:02:17] vinegar to the boil water to cook the

[1:02:20] potatoes slower? Why don't you just cook

[1:02:21] them for less time?"

[1:02:24] Is that what I did in that video?

[1:02:27] I don't remember doing that in that

[1:02:29] video, but that sounds like the kind of

[1:02:30] thing that I would do. Um so, Hannah um

[1:02:35] so, pH affects the breakdown of lots of

[1:02:40] the chemicals that kind of glue plant

[1:02:42] foods plant foods together. Um and for

[1:02:48] example

[1:02:49] acid, low pH will inhibit the breakdown

[1:02:52] of pectin, which is one of the reason

[1:02:55] that we use pectin in like sour fruit

[1:02:58] preserves and such. It's so effective

[1:03:01] there. The acid essentially protects the

[1:03:03] pectin.

[1:03:05] And it's it's way more complicated than

[1:03:06] that, the chemistry. And you know, so

[1:03:07] don't don't quote me on on that

[1:03:10] in my show that I'm going to publish.

[1:03:13] That is being broadcast live right now.

[1:03:15] It's almost like it's radio or

[1:03:16] something. Anyhow,

[1:03:18] um

[1:03:19] the

[1:03:21] Oh god, what was I talking about?

[1:03:23] Hey, people in the chat, what was I

[1:03:24] talking about? Oh, the the vinegar,

[1:03:26] right? The vinegar for potatoes. So,

[1:03:28] what vinegar will do in your boil water

[1:03:30] for potatoes is that it'll inhibit the

[1:03:32] breakdown of pectin. It will sort of

[1:03:33] kind of keep the potato together, but it

[1:03:36] will allow for the breakdown of other

[1:03:38] things. And what you end up getting with

[1:03:40] potatoes, for example, is um

[1:03:42] cell sloughing, I believe is the

[1:03:45] technical term for it. Like, the cells

[1:03:47] of the potato will will break apart from

[1:03:49] each other, but they the cells with

[1:03:52] themselves will remain more intact and

[1:03:54] spill less starch into the solution,

[1:03:56] which would make things gummy and all

[1:03:58] kinds of things. And I I forget what

[1:04:00] exactly advantage it would have for the

[1:04:02] oven fries. But, the other the reason I

[1:04:04] took your question

[1:04:06] um

[1:04:07] is that I I want to emphasize that like

[1:04:09] I I I do not stand by my earliest

[1:04:13] videos, of which that is one. Like, the

[1:04:15] videos I was doing in my first year,

[1:04:17] basically, are just filled with all

[1:04:19] kinds of things that I would love to

[1:04:21] take back if I could, but the internet

[1:04:23] is forever. And even if I delete the

[1:04:25] video, it's just going to get reposted

[1:04:26] by somebody. So, it is what it is. You

[1:04:29] know, what's done is done, and you have

[1:04:30] to just improve and and and move on.

[1:04:33] But, I was so green in my first year

[1:04:36] doing this that I made all kinds of like

[1:04:38] technical mistakes and culinary mis-

[1:04:39] it's just so culinary mistakes, all

[1:04:41] kinds of things, and you know,

[1:04:43] uh bits of wisdom that I had absorbed

[1:04:46] uh you know, chef wisdom that I absorbed

[1:04:48] uncritically that I just kind of

[1:04:50] parroted uncritically in the videos,

[1:04:52] which is my early videos, which is not

[1:04:54] what I want to do. I'm kind of the

[1:04:55] opposite of that, you know? So,

[1:04:57] everything I do in an early video,

[1:04:59] please, for God's sake, take it with a

[1:05:00] grain of salt. Uh I don't even remember

[1:05:03] the oven fries video. I will never watch

[1:05:05] that video again because of how

[1:05:07] overexposed some of the shots are. I

[1:05:09] just can't live with that again.

[1:05:14] A human with a name says, "Goose,

[1:05:17] you're easily my favorite YouTuber.

[1:05:20] Because of you, I want to be a chef and

[1:05:21] maybe get a food science degree. I am

[1:05:23] writing a paper on your autolysis video.

[1:05:27] Will you bring back the Q&A's in

[1:05:29] comments?"

[1:05:31] Um so, thank you, human with a name, and

[1:05:33] that all sounds great. Uh I would

[1:05:35] absolutely encourage studying food

[1:05:37] science in college. That's got to be one

[1:05:39] of the just perfect undergraduate

[1:05:40] degrees.

[1:05:42] My god, awesome. Do it. And it it'll it

[1:05:44] would set you up so well for work as a

[1:05:46] chef. It would set you set you up well

[1:05:48] for

[1:05:49] you know, uh

[1:05:50] steadier and probably higher-paying work

[1:05:52] in the food industry, the kind of work

[1:05:54] where you get to like go into your

[1:05:55] office and then leave at 5:00, and

[1:05:58] that's it, right? So, I would encourage

[1:06:00] you to keep following your your heart in

[1:06:02] the direction of food science, and maybe

[1:06:04] it'll take you to some a better job than

[1:06:06] working at a restaurant. Working at a

[1:06:07] restaurant is really hard, and I tend to

[1:06:10] kind of consider it something like being

[1:06:12] a musician, uh which I

[1:06:14] was before I, you know,

[1:06:16] failed at it. It's where my life

[1:06:18] started.

[1:06:20] Uh the only reason to be a professional

[1:06:22] musician is if you're you're so good at

[1:06:26] it, right? That it's effortless, and

[1:06:28] people just lap it up. Like the the

[1:06:30] effortless stuff that you pump out

[1:06:32] there, people just love it, you know?

[1:06:34] Paul McCartney is

[1:06:35] in in that category, right? It's just

[1:06:37] it's just easy for him. It's so easy. Or

[1:06:40] in the case of like classically trained

[1:06:41] musicians, people like orchestral

[1:06:43] players, you know, there's people who

[1:06:45] can practice for 10 hours a day,

[1:06:48] and then get ready for the concert, and

[1:06:51] they kill it, and they sound beautiful,

[1:06:53] but they live a miserable life compared

[1:06:56] to the people who can who are so

[1:06:57] talented they can just show up with

[1:06:59] their violin and sight-read the thing,

[1:07:01] and they're they play it beautifully,

[1:07:02] and they're done, right? Um you get the

[1:07:04] same product in both result in both

[1:07:07] situations, but only one of those people

[1:07:09] had a good time that day.

[1:07:11] You know? And that was mainly one of the

[1:07:13] biggest reasons why I quit quit music

[1:07:15] was just it was just like I'm not I can

[1:07:17] be I can make really good music, but I

[1:07:19] have to work so hard at it. And there's

[1:07:22] people who do things just as good and it

[1:07:25] they just toss it off. It's just like

[1:07:27] breathing to them. And I should leave it

[1:07:29] to them. The other reason to like be a

[1:07:31] musician a professional musician is if

[1:07:33] like you you can't do anything else. You

[1:07:35] love it so much. You have so much music

[1:07:38] in you that you have to let it out or

[1:07:41] you will die. Right? That's that's a

[1:07:43] great reason to be a musician, too. I

[1:07:45] mean you're still probably in for a

[1:07:47] world of hurt in terms of your life,

[1:07:49] but you have no other choice. So you

[1:07:51] have to you have to do it, you know?

[1:07:53] It's like loving someone so much who

[1:07:55] Well, that's a bad example. I don't want

[1:07:57] I guess I I don't want to be a

[1:07:59] I don't want to be advancing abusive

[1:08:00] relationships. So forget I started that

[1:08:02] thought.

[1:08:03] What I really want to compare compare a

[1:08:04] music professional music making to is

[1:08:07] professional food making, especially in

[1:08:09] restaurants, right? Restaurant work is

[1:08:12] is so killer. It hurts people so much.

[1:08:15] Even the most successful people in the

[1:08:16] business

[1:08:17] are exhausted and their knees hurt and

[1:08:19] their restaurants usually don't make

[1:08:21] that much money. Even successful

[1:08:22] restaurants don't turn much profit. Uh

[1:08:25] and it's a rough life. And the only

[1:08:27] reason to do it is if it's

[1:08:29] easy for you and the public laps it up.

[1:08:32] Or if like you can't do anything else.

[1:08:35] It's what you have to do to actualize

[1:08:38] yourself.

[1:08:39] Any cost be damned, you know? You're

[1:08:41] going to live with the pain of working

[1:08:43] in a restaurant. So awesome. Do that if

[1:08:45] that's your calling, but otherwise,

[1:08:47] yeah, I'd say study food science and

[1:08:48] maybe you get a corporate job.

[1:08:50] Now, what Human With a Name also asks is

[1:08:52] will I bring back the Q&A's in the

[1:08:54] comments. So what he's

[1:08:56] what this person is referring to is

[1:08:59] I used to

[1:09:00] do like a an FAQ, like a fact, like a

[1:09:03] frequently asked questions. Do people

[1:09:05] say fact or FAQ? Or do people even say

[1:09:07] that anymore cuz that's like an internet

[1:09:08] 1.0

[1:09:10] term.

[1:09:11] Uh from the early days. But anyway, I

[1:09:13] used to do like an FAQ in the pinned

[1:09:15] comment underneath every video.

[1:09:19] I don't do that anymore, um human with a

[1:09:21] name.

[1:09:22] I consciously stopped for two reasons.

[1:09:25] One, I got better at anticipating

[1:09:28] what people would ask about. Or what

[1:09:31] their criticisms would be. Or you know,

[1:09:33] whatever they would say that would need

[1:09:35] to be addressed by me. I got better at

[1:09:38] anticipating what that would be through

[1:09:40] experience. And so what I try to do is

[1:09:42] do the Q&A that I would do in the pinned

[1:09:44] comment. I try to do that in the video

[1:09:46] now or the pod, right? I try to

[1:09:48] anticipate what people are going to talk

[1:09:50] about. And usually, you know, the big

[1:09:52] things that I would want to address, I

[1:09:54] have addressed now in the show. And

[1:09:56] that's why I just don't need to put in

[1:09:58] the Q&A most times. the FAQ. Um and then

[1:10:02] the other reason I stopped doing it is

[1:10:04] just I needed to

[1:10:06] I I I needed to stop engaging with my

[1:10:08] audience for my own

[1:10:11] good. For any number of reasons. And I

[1:10:13] had to like kind of go cold turkey on

[1:10:15] audience engagement and reading comments

[1:10:17] and stuff. And then I was able to kind

[1:10:19] of gradually rebuild that in my life in

[1:10:22] a way that was that was more healthy.

[1:10:24] Um and still isn't super healthy.

[1:10:26] But I've kept it reasonably healthy

[1:10:28] largely by ignoring most of it. And

[1:10:31] trusting certain people that I have in

[1:10:33] my life to surface audience complaints,

[1:10:37] comments, whatever that I I really

[1:10:39] should hear.

[1:10:41] Um but I just can't cuz I I don't want

[1:10:44] to look

[1:10:45] cuz it's just bad for me. And probably

[1:10:47] would be bad for you too if you were

[1:10:48] ever in the situation. People like to

[1:10:51] they'll say things like, "Oh god, these

[1:10:52] YouTubers, they have such thin skin." Or

[1:10:54] these politicians, "They have such thin

[1:10:55] skin." Like you you try it. Like you try

[1:10:59] you exposing yourself to that kind of

[1:11:01] mass public scrutiny even in the case of

[1:11:03] like relatively inconsequential micro

[1:11:06] celebrity like the kind that I enjoy.

[1:11:09] It's really rough and it takes it takes

[1:11:13] a lot of learning to to figure out a

[1:11:15] productive way to do it and maybe the

[1:11:17] best way is to ignore it. So

[1:11:19] I can answer I'm going to answer two

[1:11:21] more questions. Okay.

[1:11:23] Uh

[1:11:25] Ceiling fan asks Adam given that you're

[1:11:27] humanist how do you weigh animal welfare

[1:11:29] against human economic benefit of

[1:11:31] maximally efficient meat production IE

[1:11:33] factory farming?

[1:11:35] Yeah,

[1:11:36] you said it ceiling fan. What a smart

[1:11:39] ceiling fan you are. Oh, he's such a

[1:11:41] smart ceiling fan. He's so smart.

[1:11:43] Yeah it's

[1:11:44] uh

[1:11:46] I I certainly value

[1:11:49] I value human life and I value the

[1:11:52] continued

[1:11:54] sustenance of the biosphere as we know

[1:11:57] it way more than I value

[1:12:00] animal welfare. It's you know, that's

[1:12:02] not to say I don't value animal welfare.

[1:12:03] I do.

[1:12:05] But I think what happens to people is

[1:12:07] more important and I think what happens

[1:12:08] long-term to the whole biosphere is much

[1:12:12] more important. And if you can make meat

[1:12:15] and when meat production is more

[1:12:17] efficient when you when when farming in

[1:12:18] general and food production is more

[1:12:20] efficient

[1:12:21] there are benefits to be realized

[1:12:24] there.

[1:12:25] Not necessarily. There's all kinds of

[1:12:27] you know, conventional agriculture that

[1:12:29] is tremendously injurious to the

[1:12:31] environment among other problems.

[1:12:33] But you know, the constant fight between

[1:12:35] the organic farming crowd and the

[1:12:37] conventional farming crowd is really

[1:12:39] which is better or worse for the

[1:12:41] environment and there's

[1:12:42] as I understand it the science on that

[1:12:44] question is kind of inconclusive mostly

[1:12:47] because it it depends a lot on which

[1:12:49] specific food you're talking about and

[1:12:51] which specific eaters you're talking

[1:12:53] about and it's and how you're counting

[1:12:56] it right like what what how how wide are

[1:12:59] you drawing the circle around the

[1:13:01] knock-on effects of that food that

[1:13:04] you're examining.

[1:13:05] It's really hard.

[1:13:07] But there's a strong scientific argument

[1:13:09] to be made that like the more efficient

[1:13:11] the food production is, the better it

[1:13:13] probably is for the environment in most

[1:13:15] situations.

[1:13:17] And that could include factory animal

[1:13:21] farming that is unimaginably cruel um to

[1:13:24] animals and that's not great.

[1:13:27] So as a humanist, yeah, um I value these

[1:13:30] things more than I value animals, but I

[1:13:32] do value animal welfare and I am not

[1:13:35] down with modern factory animal farming.

[1:13:38] Though it has made tremendous strides,

[1:13:40] like a lot of the really horrific, you

[1:13:42] know, Upton Sinclair type practices have

[1:13:45] been reined in considerably and that's

[1:13:46] not a matter of my opinion. That's like

[1:13:49] that's been researched. Like go Google

[1:13:51] Scholar that Like um a lot of the

[1:13:53] worst abuses have been reined in, but

[1:13:55] terrible abuses still happen and you

[1:13:57] could argue that the system itself is

[1:13:58] inherently an abuse.

[1:14:00] So that's why I increasingly buy meat

[1:14:02] from people I know who are raising

[1:14:04] animals, you know, out in the grass

[1:14:06] somewhere. I'm not sure if that's better

[1:14:09] for the environment.

[1:14:11] It's probably worse for the overall

[1:14:13] economy and the you know, the the

[1:14:16] of availability of sufficient material

[1:14:19] things for everyone in the world, right?

[1:14:21] Probably not great for that, but at

[1:14:23] least I'm pretty sure it's good for

[1:14:24] animal welfare, so that's what I why I

[1:14:25] do it and that's the best I can do.

[1:14:27] Uh and that's that's what I have to say

[1:14:29] about that.

[1:14:31] Uh David McDermott asks, "Do you ever

[1:14:33] wish that you had gone into food science

[1:14:34] as a career?"

[1:14:36] Uh no. No, I think that my the food

[1:14:39] science job that I have, which is kind

[1:14:41] of a food science job, is like way

[1:14:43] better than like anybody else's food

[1:14:45] science job. Like this is freaking

[1:14:46] awesome. It certainly pays more than

[1:14:49] most food science jobs.

[1:14:50] Um

[1:14:51] because ultimately it's not just a food

[1:14:53] science job.

[1:14:54] So no, I think I would not have done

[1:14:56] that. I do regret I really regret not

[1:15:00] taking more chem in college. In fact,

[1:15:03] did I even take chem in college? I

[1:15:04] didn't take o-chem in college. I took

[1:15:06] chem in high school I took like good a

[1:15:07] really good high school chemistry class

[1:15:10] that helps me a lot to this day.

[1:15:12] But I wish I had taken college-level

[1:15:14] o-chem at Penn State. Like I think so

[1:15:16] many things would be so much easier for

[1:15:18] me right now. Um

[1:15:21] but coulda woulda shoulda. It's hard to

[1:15:23] be mad about the choices that you made

[1:15:25] in your life when your life turns out as

[1:15:27] well as I feel like mine has.

[1:15:29] You know, what I regret is who I hurt on

[1:15:31] the way here.

[1:15:33] Um and that would include some animals,

[1:15:35] no doubt.

[1:15:36] Um so I'm going to take one

[1:15:39] more question.

[1:15:42] Bop bop ba.

[1:15:45] Well, here's a comment from Martin

[1:15:46] Raymond saying science communicators

[1:15:49] do a lot more to advance science than

[1:15:52] scientists do sometimes. Appreciate

[1:15:54] that, Martin, and I appreciate you

[1:15:57] qualifying that at the end, giving

[1:15:59] yourself some wiggle room, little weasel

[1:16:00] word by saying sometimes at the end.

[1:16:02] Good call. I would have done the same

[1:16:03] thing.

[1:16:05] Yeah, I mean there's science

[1:16:06] communicators that do incredible things

[1:16:08] and have done incredible things. Um but

[1:16:10] there's science communicators that have,

[1:16:12] you know, done a lot of harm, too. And I

[1:16:14] I hope I'm not one of those. Um

[1:16:17] it is remarkable to me how science

[1:16:20] communication is a radically different

[1:16:22] job than science. And I deal all the

[1:16:25] time with really, really gifted

[1:16:27] scientists doing incredible work who

[1:16:29] cannot express what they're doing to

[1:16:32] save their life.

[1:16:33] And that's okay. That's my job. That's

[1:16:36] what I'm here for, you know. I'm I'm

[1:16:37] thrilled that there's a job

[1:16:39] available for me to do and that's mine.

[1:16:42] You know, but at the same time, I think

[1:16:44] you and this is probably a good place to

[1:16:45] end this. Um,

[1:16:47] you, the audience,

[1:16:50] you need to be extra careful

[1:16:53] when you're watching, you know, science

[1:16:55] communicators or any kind of person who

[1:16:57] communicates esoterica for a living on

[1:17:00] the internet.

[1:17:02] Because you got to ask yourself, like

[1:17:04] does this person really know their stuff

[1:17:06] or are they just really good at talking

[1:17:08] about it? Because unless you are a deep

[1:17:11] subject matter expert,

[1:17:13] you have very little way to tell the

[1:17:16] difference, right? So, I ask myself this

[1:17:18] all the time when I watch Peter Zeihan's

[1:17:20] videos. So, Peter Zeihan, for people who

[1:17:23] don't know, is like a

[1:17:24] an international relations consultant or

[1:17:26] something. Um,

[1:17:28] and he has a YouTube channel. He does

[1:17:31] these absolutely delightful, very

[1:17:33] simple, first-person, you know, holding

[1:17:35] the phone camera up uh,

[1:17:37] to talk to it with a beautiful

[1:17:39] background behind him because he's

[1:17:40] always traveling cuz he's a consultant

[1:17:42] and that's what they do.

[1:17:43] They travel.

[1:17:45] And he'll, you know, say something about

[1:17:48] geopolitics in 10 minutes that sounds

[1:17:50] freaking brilliant.

[1:17:53] But like I'm not totally sure it's like

[1:17:55] right.

[1:17:56] And I'm not a subject matter expert in

[1:17:58] any of the things he talks about, so I

[1:17:59] don't know. I know lots of subject

[1:18:02] matter experts are often critical of his

[1:18:04] lens, his highly deterministic lens, his

[1:18:07] highly, um, geographic deterministic

[1:18:09] lens, which is a problem that I have

[1:18:11] myself. I've been accused of geographic

[1:18:12] determinism, so of course that's how I

[1:18:14] found Peter Zeihan. Birds of a feather,

[1:18:16] right? Um,

[1:18:18] and you know, but at the same time he's

[1:18:20] also respected by a lot of people. But

[1:18:22] for me, it's just kind of like, dude,

[1:18:24] you're just so good at this. You're so

[1:18:26] Peter Zeihan is so good at talking that

[1:18:29] he could be completely full of it.

[1:18:33] Have nothing real to say.

[1:18:36] And people would still watch him. I

[1:18:37] would still watch him because it just

[1:18:39] sounds so

[1:18:41] right and smart.

[1:18:43] And maybe it is right and smart and

[1:18:44] that's why it sounds right and smart,

[1:18:46] but

[1:18:47] it's also part of it is certainly just

[1:18:49] that the guy is a very gifted

[1:18:50] communicator.

[1:18:52] And

[1:18:54] I know sometimes he said things that I'm

[1:18:56] like, "I'm pretty sure that's not quite

[1:18:57] right."

[1:18:59] You know? Or or or it's like it's a red

[1:19:01] flag where I know from my experience

[1:19:03] that people who express thoughts like

[1:19:05] that with that level of certainty

[1:19:08] cannot be trusted.

[1:19:10] Or or or or you or you should

[1:19:12] it should be a red flag for you. Like

[1:19:14] you should you should trust but verify,

[1:19:16] right? When someone is really certain

[1:19:19] about a very complex topic and Peter

[1:19:21] Zeihan is

[1:19:22] 10,000% certain about most things that

[1:19:24] he talks about on the internet. And that

[1:19:26] might be because he reserves the most

[1:19:30] the things that he really knows about to

[1:19:32] talk about on the internet and that's

[1:19:33] awesome but

[1:19:35] my viewership of Peter Zeihan has made

[1:19:37] me really worry and wonder like do I

[1:19:40] actually know what I'm talking about or

[1:19:43] am I just really good at talking?

[1:19:46] I'm not even that good at talking as you

[1:19:47] can see. Like I'm good at writing. I'm a

[1:19:50] writer. I'm not quick. I'm not good off

[1:19:53] the cuff, right? Like this sucks.

[1:19:56] The second half of this show is freaking

[1:19:57] terrible right?

[1:19:59] Um I'm not good off the cuff cuz I'm not

[1:20:00] quick, but I I'm good at writing and I

[1:20:03] worry is that all I'm good at? Is that

[1:20:05] all I'm good at? You know? And how would

[1:20:07] you know

[1:20:08] if that's all I was good at? You you you

[1:20:10] unless you were an expert in these

[1:20:12] fields I'm talking about, you wouldn't

[1:20:14] know.

[1:20:15] So I only thing I can do is try to

[1:20:18] maintain humility and to try to defer to

[1:20:20] expertise and you know, when I say

[1:20:23] something like

[1:20:26] be carrying a lot of body fat is almost

[1:20:29] certainly really bad for your health

[1:20:31] um or it at least is strongly correlated

[1:20:33] with bad health.

[1:20:35] Like that's not my opinion.

[1:20:37] And people will challenge it as though

[1:20:39] it's my opinion. It's not my opinion. I

[1:20:41] You don't You shouldn't care what my

[1:20:42] opinion is about that stuff. All I'm

[1:20:44] doing is articulating the consensus

[1:20:46] scientific view, you know? Um, and I try

[1:20:49] to present it as such whenever I

[1:20:51] remember to. So that you know, that's

[1:20:53] all I'm saying. Like you should not care

[1:20:54] about my scientific opinions.

[1:20:56] Uh, unless it's like an experiment that

[1:20:58] I do myself in my kitchen and maybe you

[1:21:01] should care about what I think there.

[1:21:03] But even then, remember it's not a

[1:21:05] scientific experiment. It's for

[1:21:07] infotainment purposes only. And

[1:21:11] you know,

[1:21:12] it's awesome. The best thing about the

[1:21:14] social internet, which is what we're

[1:21:15] doing right now, is that it does I do

[1:21:18] think it helps keep people honest. Like

[1:21:20] I What I see is that when I screw up in

[1:21:23] a video factually on something, the

[1:21:26] correction rises to the top in the

[1:21:29] comments. And I try to help it there.

[1:21:31] You know, I'll I'll pin it often or I'll

[1:21:33] I'll like it or respond to it to boost

[1:21:34] it and try to get it up higher. Most big

[1:21:37] oopses I've had get caught by the

[1:21:39] audience really quickly and they float

[1:21:41] right to the top of the comment section.

[1:21:43] And that's

[1:21:44] that's good. That's a way in which, you

[1:21:46] know, YouTube's magic algorithms seem to

[1:21:48] be working right. And uh, and with that,

[1:21:52] I will thank you all very much for being

[1:21:54] here on the first highly experimental

[1:21:56] Ragusea live chat podcast. Um, I I don't

[1:22:00] know how well this went. Let me know how

[1:22:02] well you think this went and I might try

[1:22:04] it again. If you're wondering why you

[1:22:06] didn't hear about it in advance, it's

[1:22:08] cuz I wanted to keep the pool of people

[1:22:10] in the chat small and even that

[1:22:12] completely failed. Like there was It was

[1:22:14] just going by really, really fast. So I

[1:22:16] think if I do this again, I might do the

[1:22:19] super chat thing where people can pay

[1:22:22] like five bucks or whatever to get your

[1:22:24] question or comment in the in the chat

[1:22:27] like surfaced um so that I'm more likely

[1:22:30] to see it. And I would not be doing that

[1:22:32] to make money at all. I don't I don't I

[1:22:33] don't need your money. I appreciate your

[1:22:34] money, but I don't need it. Um thank

[1:22:36] you. I need your viewership or and or

[1:22:39] uh but I don't need your money. Um but I

[1:22:41] would do the sort of paid question

[1:22:44] posting thing as a way of managing

[1:22:46] demand. As a way of making sure that

[1:22:48] only the people who really want to ask

[1:22:49] the question are asking the question. Um

[1:22:52] and and and as a way of just limiting

[1:22:53] limiting demand, you know, so that I

[1:22:55] there's it's there's less there for me

[1:22:56] to have to comb through as I'm also

[1:22:58] talking off the cuff, which I'm not good

[1:23:01] at as we just discussed cuz I'm not

[1:23:02] quick. I'm slow.

[1:23:05] How slow were you to like stick out

[1:23:07] through this entire Adam Ragusea

[1:23:09] podcast? Oh my gosh.

[1:23:11] Where has your day gone? What poor

[1:23:13] choices you have made.

[1:23:14] Make better choices and I will talk to

[1:23:17] you again next time.

[1:23:19] Phew.

[1:23:23] Ooh.